Transcript: Lloyd Axworthy on Navigating a New World: Canada's Globa | Jan 15, 2005

Lloyd stands at a podium in a lecture hall.

Lloyd is in his fifties and has dark brown hair that is parted on the side. He
wears glasses, a black blazer with a red pin, a matching black sweater and a
collared shirt.

Lloyd says I WAS
THINKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT
SORT OF PRESENTATIONS WE'VE
HEARD TODAY AND THEY ARE ALL
REMARKABLE AND FASCINATING TO
LISTEN TO BUT, YOU KNOW, A
COMMON THEME WAS RUNNING
THROUGH WAS HOW DO WE DO ALL
THIS AND HOW DO WE RESPOND WHEN
WE LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THIS
POWERFUL, SORT OF OMNIPOTENT
AND SOMETIMES UNRULY AND
IRRATIONAL NEIGHBOUR?
AND IT BROUGHT TO MIND
SOMETHING THAT I WROTE ABOUT IN
THE BOOK AND JUST AFTER LEAVING
GOVERNMENT I WAS INVITED TO
SPEAK AT TAIWAN UNIVERSITY.
IT WAS REALLY MY FIRST SORT OF
ACT OF LIBERATION FROM THE
SHACKLES OF GOVERNMENT
RESTRAINTS.
THIS LIBERATION THAT I ACQUIRED
A FEW YEARS AGO LED ME OF
COURSE INTO THE WORLD OF THE 30
SECOND CLIP.
TO ACTUALLY TRY TO COMPOSE A
SENTENCE OR TWO AND A PARAGRAPH
AND I SAY TO MY EDITOR AND TO
JOHN AND TO ELISE AND OTHERS
THAT THEY ACTUALLY WERE ABLE TO
NAVIGATE ME INTO THE WORLD OF
ACTUALLY PUTTING SOMETHING ON
PAGE.
TILL I FOUND MYSELF IN THIS
REMARKABLE SITUATION OF
BECOMING AN AUTHOR, WHICH IS
ABOUT THE LAST THING AS A
POLITICIAN YOU'D EVER THOUGHT
YOU COULD ACQUIRE.
ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS TO BECOME A
HABIT RECENTLY.
AND AS I HAD VISIONS OF COMING
TO TORONTO.
THAT'S WHY I'M SO THRILLED
ABOUT BEING HERE TODAY WITH ALL
OF YOU AND FOR SUCH A
DISTINGUISHED GROUP OF
PANELISTS BECAUSE I HAD THIS
IDEA.
ONCE I WROTE A BOOK I'D BE
INVITED TO TORONTO AND I WOULD
SIP SHERRY WITH MARGARET ATWOOD
IN SOME SALON ON BLOOR STREET
YOU KNOW AND HAVE A GREAT
DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE TROUBLES
OF THE DAY AND YET I FOUND THAT
LOUISE AND SHEILA KAY WERE
HAVING ME IN HOTLINE SHOW IN
THUNDER BAY AT SIX IN THE
MORNING.

(Audience laughs)

Lloyd continues DESCRIBING
THE VIRTUES OF GLOBALISM
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE HOCKEY
SCORES AND THE WEATHER.

(Audience laughs)

A caption appears. It reads “Lloyd Axworthy: Author, ‘ Navigating a New World:
Canada’s Global Future.’”

Lloyd continues BUT I'LL
TELL YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT
PARTICULAR EXPERIENCE BECAUSE
HAVING BEEN IN POLITICS FOR
ALMOST 30 YEARS, IT DID GIVE ME
A BRAND NEW PERSPECTIVE ON THIS
COUNTRY.THE SIX OR
EIGHT WEEKS ON THE ROAD GOING
NORTH, SOUTH, EAST AND WEST IN
A VARIETY OF AUDIENCES AND
PLACES.
IT GAVE ME A LOOK AT CANADIANS
IN A CONTEMPORARY SENSE.
MAYBE THERE WAS A SNAPSHOT,
MAYBE THERE WAS A KALEIDOSCOPE
BUT FOR A MOMENT YOU WERE ABLE
TO BEGIN TO GET A FEEL OF THE
APPETITE THAT CANADIANS HAD.
I THINK CANADIANS ARE
INTERESTED.
I THINK THEY ARE ENGAGED.
THEY JUST DON'T FIND MANY
PLACES IN WHICH TO EXPRESS IT,
TO BECOME INVOLVED IN IT.
THAT OUR INSTITUTIONS, OUR
POLITICAL PARTIES, OUR
UNIVERSITIES, OUR ACADEMIES,
OUR MEDIA ARE NOT PROVIDING
MANY OPPORTUNITIES.
COUNTERSPIN WAS AN
EXCEPTION TO THAT.
BUT I RECALL JUST TONY BURMAN
FROM THE CBC SORT OF GIVING A
TALK TWO WEEKS AGO SAYING THE
CBC'S JUST FINISHED A MAJOR
PUBLIC AFFAIRS SURVEY IN WHICH
CANADIANS ARE DEMANDING MORE
FOREIGN NEWS WITH A CANADIAN
PERSPECTIVE.
THEY WANT TO KNOW, THEY WANT TO
UNDERSTAND.

[Applause]

Lloyd says AND I THINK
THAT THERE IS A SENSE THAT
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THE
GEOLOGICAL PLATES ARE SHIFTING.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THAT FAMOUS
PHRASE ON TEILHARD DE CHARDAIN,
THE THEOLOGIAN.
HE SAID THAT A GREAT MANY
EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL PORTENTS
AND UPHEAVALS ARE TAKING PLACE
AND IT CAUSES US ALL TO FEEL
MORE OR LESS THAT SOMETHING
TREMENDOUS IS TAKING PLACE IN
THE WORLD.
BUT WHAT IS IT?
AND THAT'S THE ISSUE WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT.
WHAT IS IT?
WHAT IS IT THAT'S TAKING PLACE
AND HOW DO WE COME TO GRIPS
WITH IT AS A GROUP OF PEOPLE,
AS A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE AT
THIS TIME.
AND PERHAPS THOSE PORTENTS ARE
PARTICULARLY DRAMATIZED BY THE
EVENTS OF THIS PAST WEEK
BECAUSE I THINK IT GIVES US A
FRESH START AS CANADIANS.
I AGREE PARTLY WITH NAOMI THAT
IN A WAY WE WERE BECOMING TOO
OBSESSED WITH BEING RESCUED BY
JOHN KERRY AND THE DEMOCRATS
FROM GEORGE BUSH AND THE KIND
OF, YOU KNOW, VEIL OF DARKNESS
HE WAS BRINGING.
NOW WE'VE GOT TO DO IT
OURSELVES.
NOW WE HAVE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN
RESOLUTIONS.
NOW WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE WORLD IS
FOR OURSELF AND WHERE WE WANT
TO BE IN IT AND HOW DO WE GET
THERE.
BECAUSE I THINK IF THERE'S BEEN
A PROBLEM RECENTLY WE'VE BEEN
FAR TOO DERIVATIVE IN OUR
ANALYSIS.
WE'VE BEEN FAR TOO BORROWING OF
OTHER'S PEOPLE'S ASSESSMENTS
AND ANALYSIS ABOUT WHERE WE
SHOULD GO AND HOW WE SHOULD GET
THERE.
AND I THINK THAT'S NO MORE
EVIDENT THAN IN THE DISCONNECT
THAT MANY CANADIANS ARE FEELING
FROM THE POLITICAL SYSTEM.
AND I SAY THAT WITH SOME
SADNESS BECAUSE I WAS A MEMBER
OF THAT SYSTEM FOR CLOSE TO
THREE DECADES.
BUT PEOPLE DON'T FEEL THAT THEY
ARE ABLE TO USE THAT DEMOCRATIC
OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY...
AND I'VE HEARD MANY QUESTIONS
FROM YOU THIS AFTERNOON AND
THIS MORNING SAYING, HOW DO I
CONNECT?
HOW DO A MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
WHERE DO WE MOBILIZE?
HOW DO WE DEFINE OURSELVES?
AND THAT I THINK IS PART OF
THIS EXERCISE AND IT'S AN
EXERCISE THAT NEEDS TO BE
MULTIPLIED BECAUSE I RECALL
QUITE VIVIDLY A YOUNG WOMAN AT
SIR WILFRED UNIVERSITY SAYING
TO ME WHEN I WAS TALKING ABOUT
WHAT I'D WRITTEN AND HOW WE CAN
MAYBE AS CANADIANS NAVIGATE OUR
OWN WAY.
HER BASIC VIEW WAS, SHE SAID,
YOU KNOW, WHY SHOULD I GET
INVOLVED POLITICALLY BECAUSE
NOTHING THERE SPEAKS TO ME.
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS ONE OF
THE REAL ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO
BEGIN TO CONTEND WITH IS HOW DO
WE BEGIN TO EXERCISE ONCE AGAIN
OUR NOTION OF CITIZENSHIP?
THE FUNDAMENTAL NOTION OF
CIVITAS,OF
RESPONSIBILITIES BUT NOW DO IT
IN A VERY DIFFERENT DOMAIN.
WE NOW DO IT IN A...
NO LONGER IS THE PUBLIC DOMAIN
JUST NATIONAL, OR LOCAL OR
COMMUNITY.
THE PUBLIC DOMAIN IS NOW
GLOBAL.
THAT'S THE WORLD WE HAVE TO
LIVE IN AND THEREFORE WE HAVE
TO BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE
NEED TO CHANGE THE CONVENTIONAL
WISDOMS AND SHAKE UP MANY OF
THE WAYS AND PRACTICES OF DOING
THINGS.
SO I THOUGHT FOR A WHILE THAT
THIS EVENING IT'S THE LAST KIND
OF ROUND IS TO TELL A COUPLE OF
STORIES.
AND I'D LIKE TO JUST SHARE WITH
YOU AN EXPERIENCE I HAD A FEW
MONTHS BACK WHEN HUMAN RIGHTS
WATCH ASKED ME TO GO TO
COLOMBIA TO TAILOR A REPORT ON
CHILD SOLDIERS.
THE REPORT WAS CALLED “YOU
LEARN NOT TO CRY.”
AND PART OF THE REASON WAS TO
TRY TO CONVINCE THE COLOMBIAN
GOVERNMENT TO COME TO BEGIN TO
GRIPS WITH THE FACT THAT SOME
18 TO 20,000 CHILDREN HAD BEEN
KIDNAPPED AND HAD BEEN ABDUCTED
AND HAD BEEN MALTREATED.
AND THE OPENING PREFACE TO THE
REPORT, WHICH I REALLY WANT TO
SHARE WITH YOU BECAUSE IT
STOPPED ME IN MY TRACKS AND I
HOPE YOU'LL THINK ABOUT IT, WAS
WRITTEN BY A YOUNG GIRL NAMED
ANGELA WHO'D BECOME A GUERRILLA
AT THE AGE OF 12 WHEN SHE HAD
BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM HER
VILLAGE.
AND I'M GOING TO QUOTE YOU THIS
PREFACE.
SHE SAID, “I HAD A FRIEND,
JUANITA, WHO HAD GOT INTO
TROUBLE.
WE HAD BEEN FRIENDS IN CIVILIAN
LIFE AND SHARED A TENT
TOGETHER.
BUT SHE TRIED TO ESCAPE AND THE
COMMANDER SAID IT DIDN'T MATTER
SHE WAS MY FRIEND, SHE HAD
COMMITTED A SERIOUS ERROR AND
HAD TO BE KILLED.
I WAS THE ONE THAT WAS CHOSEN
TO DO IT.
I CLOSED MY EYES AND I FIRED
THE GUN BUT I DIDN'T HIT HER.
SO THE COMMANDER SAID I HAD TO
SHOOT HER AGAIN.
I THEN HAD TO PUT HER INTO A
GRAVE THAT WAS NEARBY AND I HAD
TO BURY HER AND PUT DIRT ON TOP
OF HER.
AND THE COMMANDER SAID, 'YOU
DID WELL, BUT YOU STARTED TO
CRY.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THIS
MANY MORE TIMES.
YOU'LL HAVE TO LEARN NOT TO
CRY.’”
A DISTURBING ACCOUNT FOR A
YOUNG 12-YEAR-OLD GIRL BUT NOT
UNUSUAL OR UNIQUE.
IN FACT, AS WE SPEAK THIS
AFTERNOON IT'S PROBABLY
HAPPENING IN SUDAN, IN NORTHERN
UGANDA, IN THE CONGO.
IT'S HAPPENING MULTIPLE PLACES
AROUND THE WORLD.
WE KNOW THAT LAST YEAR CLOSE TO
HALF A MILLION PEOPLE WERE
INJURED, IMPAIRED, KIDNAPPED
AND ABDUCTED.
300,000 WERE KILLED IN CIVIL
WARS.
25 MILLION OR SO REFUGEES.
THEY WERE ALL PART OF THE KIND
OF HUMAN TRAGEDY THAT WE NOW
FACE THAT HAS TO BE PART OF
THAT PORTENTS OF THE WORLD THAT
WE HAVE TO LEARN ABOUT.
IT'S NOT JUST A CHRONICLE OF
THE POOR OR THE MISBEGOTTEN.
9-11 WAS A WAKEUP CALL THAT
MADE US RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE
ALL JOINED THIS CIRCLE OF
INSECURITY OF HATE AND MURDER
AND VIOLENCE.
OF UNKNOWN RISK AND THREAT.
IT IS WHAT I THINK MANY
COMMENTATORS HAVE CALLED THE
DARK UNDERWORLD OF GLOBALISM.
INCREASING THREATS FROM
INTERNATIONAL TERRORISTS, OR
PEDOPHILES OR DRUG DEALERS OR
SMALL ARMS TRADERS.
OF DIAMOND MERCHANTS AND PEOPLE
SMUGGLERS.
IT IS A NETWORK OF CONNECTIONS
THAT USE ALL THE MODERN
TECHNOLOGY THAT MODERN
CAPITALISM AND MARKETS USE.
BUT THEY USE IT FOR PURPOSES OF
BEING PREDATORS ON FELLOW HUMAN
BEINGS.
DRUG TRAFFICKING FOR EXAMPLE.
WHEN I WAS IN COLOMBIA IT WAS
REPORTED THAT THE DRUG NETWORK,
THE CARTELS LAST YEAR HAD A
PROFIT OF 50 BILLION DOLLARS.
THAT REPRESENTS MORE GDP THAN
TWO-THIRDS OF THE WORLD'S
COUNTRIES.
AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE
CAPACITY OR ABILITY OF A
VARIETY OF OUR ESTABLISHED
INSTITUTIONS TO TRY TO DEAL
WITH THE ENORMOUS SORT OF
VIOLENCE THAT GROWS OUT OF DRUG
TRAFFICKING WE'RE INCAPABLE.
MOST COUNTRIES AREN'T ABLE.
AND THEREFORE IT BECOMES
SUBJECT TO THE CORRUPTION AND
THE BREAKDOWN AND THE FAILURE
THAT TAKES PLACE.
AND IF YOU THINK IT WAS JUST A
MATTER OF THOSE IN SOUTHERN
COUNTRIES OR IN DEPRIVED
COUNTRIES--
WHEN I GOT
BACK TO VANCOUVER WHERE I WAS
THEN LIVING, AND TALKED ABOUT
THIS EXPERIENCE TO A WOMAN WHO
WORKED ON OUR STAFF AT THE
LEWIS CENTRE, DR. PATRICIA
SPIDDAL, SHE SAID, “LLOYD, COME
WITH ME.
I'M TAKING YOU DOWN TO THE EAST
SIDE OF VANCOUVER.”
BECAUSE ON
THE EAST SIDE OF VANCOUVER
YOUNG ABORIGINAL GIRLS THE SAME
AGE AS ANGELA ARE BEING
VIOLATED BY THE VERY SAME DRUG
TRAFFICKERS THAT ARE OPERATING
OUT OF COLOMBIA.
AND SO AS A RESULT WE HAVE ONE
OF THE HIGHEST RATES OF H.I.V.
INFECTION IN THIS COUNTRY.
HIGHER THAN MANY OTHER PARTS OF
THE WORLD THAT WE TEND TO LOOK
ON WITH ASKANCE OR WITH GREAT
HORROR.
WE'RE NOT IMMUNE.
WE'RE NOT IN THAT FORTRESS.
AND AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WANT TO
USE THAT RHETORIC IT DOESN'T
EXIST.
BECAUSE OF 9-11 AND THE
OBSESSION THAT WE HAVE NOW
DEVELOPED ABOUT TERRORISM AND
COUNTER-TERRORISM WE'RE LEAVING
ANGELA ON THE SIDELINES.
WE'RE NOT GIVING HER THE
ATTENTION THAT SHE AND MANY
OTHERS LIKE HER WHO ARE FACED
WITH THE SAME KIND OF
INSECURITY AND THREAT AND RISK
DEMAND.
AND NOT ONLY THAT BUT THE OTHER
CONSEQUENCE IS THAT IN THE RUSH
TO MANAGE THIS NEW WORLD OF
THREAT AND RISK THAT HAS BECOME
SO OVERWHELMINGLY PREOCCUPIED.
LISTEN TO THIS DISCUSSION
TODAY.
WHAT WERE WE TALKING ABOUT?
TERRORISM IN IRAQ.
WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT ANGELA
VERY MUCH.
WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT EVEN
THE CHILDREN OF SUDAN VERY
MUCH.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AN AGENDA
THAT WAS SET, AS MANY HAVE
SAID, DESCRIBING THE WAY THE
WORLD SHOULD BE AND HOW WE
SHOULD RESPOND TO IT.
AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THAT
AS CANADIANS WE HAVE A MUCH,
SORT OF BETTER WAY OF COMING AT
INSECURITY, THREAT, RISK BY
BEGINNING TO DEFINE IT
ACCORDING TO A MUCH BROADER
RANGE.
YOU KNOW THEY USED TO SAY THAT
WAR--AND I THINK IT HOLDS
TRUE--FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES THE
CONSTITUTION.
NOT JUST THE PAPER, NOT JUST
THE LEGAL DOCUMENT.
BUT THE RULES BY WHICH WE LIVE.
IT INCREASES THE POWER OF THE
STATE OVER THE INDIVIDUAL.
IT CHANGES THE DEFINITION OF
WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE VALUES
AND PRIORITIES.
BUT EQUALLY IMPORTANT IS THE
CLIMB BACK TO PEACE.
THAT EQUALLY IMPORTANT IN
COMING TO GRIPS WITH WHAT WE
WANT TO BE, HOW WE NAVIGATE IN
THIS WORLD IS WHETHER OUR
COORDINATES TO WORK TOWARDS
PEACEFUL SOLUTIONS.
AND IF YOU'LL NOTICE THAT IN
THE POLITICAL VOCABULARY THAT
WE HEAR IN OTTAWA OR
WASHINGTON, OR LONDON OR ADDIS
ABABA PEACE ISN'T A WORD WE USE
VERY OFTEN ANYMORE.
IT'S BECOME ONE OF THOSE
FORGOTTEN DISCUSSIONS.
AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK MANY
CANADIANS HAVE SENSED A
FAILURE, A BREAKDOWN, A
DISCONNECT IN OUR POLITICAL
SYSTEM BECAUSE WE'RE NOT
TALKING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE THAT
THEY WANT TO HEAR.
AND THAT IS ALSO BECAUSE THERE
IS AN INNATE UNDERSTANDING
BEGINNING TO OCCUR ABOUT THE
INTERDEPENDENCE THAT WE FACE,
THE GLOBAL VILLAGE OF MARSHALL
McLUHAN.
AND AN UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE
GOING TO WIN AS A GROUP OF
PEOPLE IN A STABLE, FAIR JUST
WORLD BUT WE'RE GOING TO LOSE
WHEN IT'S TURBULENT AND
DIVISIVE AND UNFAIR.
AND THEREFORE IT BEGINS TO MAKE
SENSE THAT OUR DISCUSSION, THE
ONE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE NOW--
THE POST-9-11, THE POST-IRAQ,
THE POST-BUSH ELECTION--WE
SHOULD BEGIN LOOKING AT THIS
FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION OF WHAT
KIND OF ROLE, CONSTRUCTIVE
ROLE, DO CANADIANS WANT TO
PLAY?
AND HOW DO WE PLAY IT?
NOT JUST WHERE DO WE GO BUT HOW
DO WE GET THERE?
WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF RESOURCES
AND COMMITMENTS AND VALUES THAT
WE HAVE.
AND BY THE WAY IN THIS WE'RE
NOT ALONE.
I MEAN, WE TEND TO BE A LITTLE
BIT SORT OF INTROSPECTIVE ABOUT
WHO WE ARE AND WHAT THE
PROBLEMS WE FACE.
BUT LET ME JUST GIVE YOU
ANOTHER STORY THAT COMES AGAIN
FROM EXPERIENCE.
I THINK GENERAL DALLAIRE WOULD
LIKE THIS BECAUSE HE'S BEEN
THERE BUT I DO A LOT OF WORK IN
NORTHERN UGANDA.
AND WHILE I WAS THERE ABOUT A
YEAR AND A HALF AGO I VISITED
THE LATROUR HOSPITAL, WHICH IS
JUST OUTSIDE GOOLOO
IT WAS A HOSPITAL THAT WAS
STARTED ABOUT 30 YEARS AGO BY
DR. CONTEY, WHO WAS A CANADIAN
WOMAN FROM MONTREAL.
AND I WENT TO PAY TRIBUTE.
I HAD SORT OF HEARD ABOUT IT,
WENT TO THE HOSPITAL.
AND WHILE I WAS THERE THERE WAS
A LITTLE BLACK PLAQUE ABOUT ON
A BANG ENTRY MAYBE ABOUT FIVE
FEET OVER.
AND I ASKED THE DOCTORS, I
SAID, “WHAT IS THAT?”
AND THEY SAID, “WELL THAT'S A
TRIBUTE TO DR. LOUKWEEYA AND
HIS COLLEAGUES.”
AGAIN, STORY--INTERESTING,
SIMPLE, TRAGIC ONE.
THERE HAD BEEN AN OUTBREAK OF
THE EBOLA VIRUS IN THE YEAR
SORT OF 2001.
THIS SMALL HOSPITAL THAT HAD
BEEN ON THE FRONTLINE OF THE
CONFLICT IN NORTHERN UGANDA--
IT'S A NASTY WAR GOING ON FOR
THE LAST 30 YEARS--HAD DECIDED
THAT IF VIRUS SPREAD INTO THE
DISPLACED PERSONS CAMPS, WHERE
THERE WAS CLOSE TO
THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION
PEOPLE IN THE CAMPS, THEN IT
WOULD HAVE METASTASIZED AND
SPREAD AROUND THE WORLD.
THEY DID THE PROPER MEDICAL
THING.
THEY WENT AFTER THE CASES, THEY
QUARANTINED THEM IN THE
HOSPITAL AND 12 OF THEM DIED AS
A RESULT BY COMING INTO
PHYSICAL CONTACT.
BUT THEY STOPPED THE OUTBREAK
OF THE VIRUS.
AND I'D SUGGEST--DON'T KNOW FOR
SURE--THERE'S PROBABLY ONE OR
TWO PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM TODAY
WHO ARE HERE BECAUSE OF THAT
DECISION BY THAT GROUP OF
AFRICAN DOCTORS AND NURSES
THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO TO RISK
THEIR LIVES AND IN FACT TO
SACRIFICE THEIR LIVES TO STOP
THAT VIRUS SPREADING AROUND THE
WORLD.
THAT'S THE KIND OF
INTERDEPENDENCE THAT WE NOW
HAVE.
THAT'S THE KIND OF SECURITY
ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.
AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO BEGIN
LOOKING AT HOW WE GOVERN
OURSELVES TO GET TO THAT POINT
OF VIEW.
I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE STARTED.
AND THIS IS I THINK WHEN CAROL
MENTIONED ABOUT THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT.
LET ME JUST GIVE YOU WHERE IT
BEGAN.
IN THE 1990s AFTER THE COLD
WAR, AS GENERAL DALLAIRE
DESCRIBED, WE UNDERSTOOD THAT
THE OLD RULES DIDN'T APPLY.
SO WE BEGAN TO DEVELOP, AS JIM
REMEMBERED, A CONCEPT CALLED
HUMAN SECURITY.
IT'S VERY SIMPLE TO DESCRIBE.
IT'S SIMPLY SAYING THAT
SECURITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL IS
BECOMING MORE IMPORTANT THAN
THE SECURITY OF THE STATE.
THAT THE OLD IDEA THAT WE WOULD
BUILD EVERYTHING AROUND SORT OF
SECURING THIS PIECE OF
TERRITORY WAS FAR LESS
IMPORTANT THAN THE RECOGNITION
THAN ANGELA IN COLOMBIA AND THE
GIRLS IN THE EAST SIDE OF
VANCOUVER OR THE EBOLA VICTIMS
IN NORTHERN UGANDA, AND THE
PEOPLE IN DOWNTOWN TORONTO ARE
ALL AFFECTED BY THE SAME
EPIDEMICS, THE SAME DRUG
TRAFFICKERS, THE SAME
TERRORISTS AND THEREFORE WE HAD
BETTER GET USED TO DEVELOPING
SECURITY-BASED ON THE HUMAN
DIMENSION.
AND THAT LED TO THE LANDMINE
CAMPAIGN, WHERE WE BEGAN TO SAY
HUMAN SECURITY ALSO HAS A
CAPACITY NOT ONLY TO REDEFINE
THE NOTION OF SOVEREIGNTY BUT
IT ALSO HAS SOME NEW POLITICAL
TOOLS BECAUSE THE NETWORKS
YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ARE
ALREADY THERE. THERE
ALREADY WAS A VAST COALITION OF
N.G.O.s WHO HAD BECOME
CONNECTED THROUGH THE POWER OF
COMMUNICATION AND INTERNET AND
FAX MACHINES THAT THEY COULD
BECOME PART OF A BROAD MOVEMENT
TO MOBILIZE, TO GET GOVERNMENTS
TO AGREE TO PUT A TREATY WHICH
BY THE WAY LAST YEAR SAVED
20,000 LIVES.
NOW I KNOW
THAT WE HAVE TO PUT 8 BILLION DOLLARS
INTO DEFENDING OUR BORDER BUT I
GOTTA TELL YOU IT WAS A PRETTY
GOOD INVESTMENT BY CANADIANS TO
GET A TREATY THAT SAVED 20,000
LIVES LAST YEAR BECAUSE THEY
WEREN'T DESTROYED OR MAIMED BY
LANDMINES.
AND SO WHEN I HEAR THESE
COMMENTATORS WHO GET UP AND
SAY, Y KNOW, THAT WE ARE NOT
PULLING OUR WEIGHT, WHEN I READ
THE BOOKS THAT ARE SAYING
CANADA IS SORT OF FIGHTING
BELOW ITS LEVEL, I SAY, YOU
DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE
A WHOLE SERIES OF ISSUES AND
IDEAS AND PROPOSITIONS THAT WE
CAN PUT FORWARD THAT AREN'T
BASED UPON THE PARADIGM AND THE
FRAMEWORK THAT COMES OUT OF THE
THINK TANKS IN WASHINGTON BUT
ONES THAT WE DEFINE FOR
OURSELVES AS CANADIANS ABOUT
WHAT WE CAN DO BEST AND HOW WE
CAN USE OUR RESOURCES AND
THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS NAVIGATING
A NEW WORLD.
(Audience applause)

Lloyd says IT WAS THAT
EXPERIENCE THAT TOOK US TO THE
NEED TO SAY, LOOKIT, WE CAN'T
DO THIS THOUGH ON A RANDOM AD
HOC BASIS.
AND THE KOSOVO WAR, WHICH FOR
ME WAS VERY TRYING.
IT WAS VERY...
I MEAN, WE ALL WENT THROUGH IT.
IT'S NOT EASY TO BE PART OF A
GROUP THAT MAKES A DECISION TO
GO TO WAR.
IT'S NOT.
IT DIGS VERY DEEP ON YOUR SOUL.
GENERAL DALLAIRE CAN SPEAK TO
THAT.
BUT WE HAD TO DO IT BECAUSE
ULTIMATELY AS THE FOREIGN
MINISTER AT THE TIME AND ALONG
WITH THE DEFENCE MINISTER AND
THE PRIME MINISTER WE
RECOGNIZED THAT IF WE WERE TO
BE TRUE TO THE PRINCIPAL OF
HUMAN SECURITY, WHICH IS THE
PROTECTION OF INDIVIDUALS, THEN
WE HAD TO LIVE IT OUT TO THE
LAST VERY RESORT, WHICH IS
NECESSARY YOU HAD TO USE FORCE
TO DO IT.
BUT I RECOGNIZED THIS--WE ALL
RECOGNIZED IT--THAT YOU CAN'T
DO THIS CAPRICIOUSLY.
AND THEREFORE WE SET UP A
COMMISSION TO BEGIN LOOKING AT
HOW DO YOU PUT RULES IN PLACE.
HOW DO YOU PUT A SERIES OF
STEPS THAT CAN PROPERLY
DETERMINE WHEN THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAS A
RIGHT TO GO INTO YOUR COUNTRY
TO STOP VIOLATIONS OR GENOCIDES
OR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY?
AND IT WAS OUT OF THAT THAT THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT BEGAN
TO EMERGE.
AND IT IS NOW BECOMING AN IDEA,
A CANADIAN IDEA THAT IS
BEGINNING TO CIRCULATE, HAVE
RESONANCE, BEGIN TO BE ACCEPTED
BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN BEGIN TO SEE
THAT INTERVENTION IS ONE OF THE
CRUCIAL ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO
FACE.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO STOP THE
UNDERWORLD FROM WINNING IF WE
AREN'T PREPARED TO DEAL WITH
IT.
AND I DON'T MEAN JUST
INTERVENTION IN A MILITARY
SENSE BUT PREVENTATIVELY, TO
MOVE IN WITH THE VARIOUS
DIPLOMATIC TOOLS THAT ARE
THERE, BUT TO HAVE THAT AS A
CLEAR COMMITMENT WITH THE KIND
OF STEPS THAT ONE HAS TO GO
THROUGH AT THE UNITED NATIONS
TO GET THERE.
AND PRIME MINISTER MARTIN SPOKE
ABOUT IT AT THE GENERAL
ASSEMBLY AS IT APPLIED TO
SUDAN.
THE QUESTION IS, ON NOVEMBER
25th WILL HE MAKE A SIMILAR
COMMITMENT TO PUT THE NECESSARY
RESOURCES TO MAKE SURE THAT THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT...
WHICH, BY THE WAY, HAS A VERY
SIMPLE RULE.
THAT IF A STATE IS UNABLE OR
UNWILLING TO PROTECT ITS
CITIZENS OR IN FACT IS THE
PREDATOR THEN THAT IS THE
SIGNAL BY WHICH THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAS THE
RIGHT TO BECOME INVOLVED.
THEY FAIL TO DO IT, THEY WON'T
DO IT OR THEMSELVES ARE THE
PREDATORS THAT BECOMES THE
TRIGGER.
NOW LET ME JUST GIVE YOU AN
EXAMPLE--AND I'M GETTING THE
“HI” SIGN.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE CAN
APPLY THAT SAME MEASURE TO
SUDAN.
AND BY THE WAY, ONE OF THE
INSTITUTIONS THAT CAME OUT OF
HUMAN SECURITY, THE CANADIANS
AGAIN HAVE A REAL SORT OF ROLE
IN PLAY, WAS THE INTERNATIONAL
CRIMINAL COURT.
AND ONE THING IF YOU REALLY
WANTED TO DEAL WITH WHAT'S
GOING ON IN SUDAN, CANADA
SHOULD BE TAKING A REFERENCE TO
THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL
COURT AGAINST THE CRIMINALS IN
SUDAN WHO ARE COMMITTING THE
KIND OF VIOLENCE THAT'S THERE.
THAT SHOULD BE A CANADIAN
INITIATIVE THAT WE COULD TAKE
ON NOVEMBER 25th.
(Audience applause)

Lloyd says BUT, LET ME
POINT OUT ONE OTHER THING
BECAUSE I WANT TO COME TO
THE...
I WANT TO COME TO AN ISSUE VERY
QUICKLY IF I MIGHT, ABOUT HOW
THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT
JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN IN FAR OFF
COUNTRIES TO OTHER PEOPLE.
IT'S HAPPENING TODAY ON OUR
DOORSTEP.
THAT NEXT WEEK A GROUP OF 300
SCIENTISTS ARE GOING TO TABLE A
REPORT AT THE ARCTIC COUNCIL
ABOUT THE IMPACT OF CLIMATE
CHANGE ON NORTHERN PEOPLE, ON
OUR NORTHERN CIRCUMPOLAR AREA
WHICH IS GOING TO KNOCK YOUR
EYES OUT BECAUSE IT WILL SIMPLY
SAY THAT THE ACCELERATION OF
CHANGE IS SO DRAMATIC AND SO
DIFFICULT THAT OUR ENTIRE
NORTHERN PEOPLES AND
CIRCUMFERENCE IS NOW IN DANGER
OF ELIMINATION.
A FORM OF ENVIRONMENTAL
GENOCIDE, IF YOU LIKE.
AND OF COURSE OUR FRIENDS TO
THE SOUTH UNDER MR. BUSH DON'T
WANT THE REPORT REALLY TABLED
AND THEY CERTAINLY DON'T WANT
POLICY DISCUSSIONS.
AND THIS WILL BE A MAJOR TEST
FOR CANADIAN DIPLOMACY.
NOT JUST WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO
WITH SUDAN BUT ARE WE PREPARED
TO BEGIN APPLYING THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT OUR
OWN PEOPLE TO THE INDIGENOUS
PEOPLES OF THE NORTH AND BEGIN
TO TAKE A STAND THAT CLIMATE
CHANGE IS JUST AS BIG A
SECURITY RISK AS THE WEAPONS
THAT WE HAVE IN SUDAN.

(Audience applause)

A view is shown of the audience.

Lloyd says OK, I'D
LIKED TO HAVE TALKED A LITTLE
BIT--AND MAYBE CAROL WILL GIVE
HER A LITTLE CUE, CAN TEAM ME
UP ABOUT--HOW WE HAVE TO CHANGE
OUR OWN DEMOCRACY TO GET THERE.
THAT IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF
WHERE WE SHOULD GO.
IT'S THAT OUR OWN DEMOCRACY IS
PRESENTLY NOT FUNCTIONING TO
BRING US TO THAT POINT.
BUT I'LL LEAVE THAT FOR THE
NEXT DISCUSSION.
WHAT I SIMPLY WANT TO SAY IS
THIS IS REPEAT THE LINE THAT'S
BEEN USED MANY TIMES.
THAT WE DON'T CARRY A BIG
STICK, WE DON'T CONSIDER
OURSELVES FULL OF MANIFEST
DESTINY, BUT WE HAVE SKILLS AND
WE HAVE RESOURCES AND WE HAVE
IDEAS AND WE HAVE CAPACITIES
AND WE HAVE EXPERIENCE AND WE
HAVE A HISTORY THAT SHOWS THAT
WE KNOW HOW TO WORK TOGETHER.
WE HAVE A CHARTER OF RIGHTS
THAT RESPECTS GROUP RIGHTS.
IT'S ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRIES
IN THE WORLD.
WE CAN NOW APPLY THAT.
AND IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT IF
WE BEGIN TO MOBILIZE THAT AND
BEGIN TO REDIRECT AND FOCUS
AROUND THOSE ASSETS WE HAVE AS
A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE THEN
MAYBE SOMEDAY IN THE NOT TOO
DISTANT FUTURE WE CAN SAY TO
THE ANGELAS OF THE WORLD, YOU
CAN LEARN TO CRY AGAIN.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[Applause]

Lloyd picks up his speech from the podium and greets Carol.

Lloyd and Carol sit down in separate chairs on stage with a table between them
as the face the audience.

Carol says BEFORE WE GET
INTO THE CUES YOU'VE GIVEN ME
AS TO WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO ASK
YOU ABOUT—

(Lloyd Axworthy and audience laugh)

Carol says --BECAUSE HE'S
STILL A CABINET MINISTER.
(Audience laughs)

Carol says I HAVE TO SAY
THAT I WANT TO TALK A BIT ABOUT
THE BOOK, NAVIGATING A NEW
WORLD,BECAUSE IT'S
BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN AND IT'S
VERY STATESMANLIKE IN MANY
RESPECTS.
BUT WHAT NOBODY HAS TOLD YOU IS
THAT THIS IS AN AMAZING TELL-
ALL BOOK.
AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU--
BECAUSE I'VE COVERED MANY OF
THESE EVENTS--I KNOW, I HAD NO
IDEA OF THE DEGREE TO WHICH
SUCCESS OF CABINETS, CANADIAN
CABINETS, HAVE BEEN THE
PRESSURES THAT YOU DESCRIBED.
THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS
APPLIED LIKE SOME SCREWS.
IN YOUR OWN TIME THERE, IF YOU
COULD TALK A BIT ABOUT JUST
SOME OF THESE QUITE AWESOME
MOMENTS THAT YOU ENCOUNTERED
THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT IN THE
BOOK.

Lloyd says I DON'T
THINK A DAY GOES BY THAT A
CANADIAN FOREIGN MINISTER,
PRIME MINISTER, THE GOVERNMENT
ISN'T ALWAYS IN THIS BALANCING
ACT WITH ITS RELATIONSHIPS WITH
THE UNITED STATES.
WE ARE IN THIS INEXTRICABLE
SORT OF CONTINENTAL HUG THAT IS
PARTLY DICTATED BY GEOGRAPHY.
IT HAS OVER THE YEARS DRAWN US
INTO A VERY HIGH LEVEL OF
ECONOMIC INTEGRATION AND THAT'S
A DEBATE THAT'S BEEN GOING ON.
I WAS A
YOUNG LIBERAL BACK IN THE 1960s
WHEN WE HAD A HUGE DEBATE IN
THE BALLROOM OF THE CHATEAU
LAURIER.
IT WAS 800 PEOPLE DECIDING
ABOUT FOREIGN INVESTMENT.
YOU KNOW, THE GREAT MITCHELL
SHARPE-WALTER GORDON DEBATES.
NOW AT THAT TIME POLITICAL
PARTIES HAD DEBATES.

Lloyd says YOU KNOW, IT
DOESN'T HAPPEN ANY MORE.
BUT WE DID DEBATE IT AND WE
LOST.I MEAN, WALTER GORDON'S SIDE
LOST AND WE DID FOREIGN
INVESTMENT, THEN WE MOVED ON TO
FREE TRADE.
AND EACH GENERATION GOES
THROUGH ITS OWN SORT OF
JUDGMENT PLAY.

Carol says BUT YOU DESCRIBE
THE 1990s AS CRUCIAL YEARS WHEN
WE REALLY WERE UNDER ENORMOUS
PRESSURE.

Lloyd says WE WERE
UNDER ENORMOUS PRESSURE BECAUSE
I THINK ON TWO GROUNDS.
ONE IS BECAUSE THE SECURITY
ISSUES WERE BEGINNING TO
CHANGE.
THE UNITED STATES, PARTICULARLY
AS IT WAS DOMINATED BY A VERY
RIGHT WING CONGRESS AND A
PENTAGON THAT DID NOT WANT TO
HAVE RESTRAINTS, DID NOT LIKE
THE INITIATIVES THAT PRIME
MINISTER CHRETIEN TOOK IN CUBA
TO ACTUALLY ENGAGE ON A HUMAN
RIGHTS GROUND.
I THINK THAT'S RIGHT TO SAY,
JIM THAT THEY DID NOT LIKE
THAT.
THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE LANDMINES
TREATY, THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE
COURT BECAUSE THE FUNDAMENTAL
ISSUE THAT WE HAVE TO COME TO
GRIPS WITH IS THE UNITED STATES
AS THE WORLD'S SUPERPOWER IS
BACKTRACKING ON ITS ORIGINAL
ROOSEVELTIAN AGREEMENT THAT
THERE HAVE TO BE RULES AND
RESTRAINTS ON POWER.
THEY DO NOT ACCEPT HAVING RULES
AND RESTRAINTS ON POWER.
AND THAT IS THE ISSUE THAT I
THINK AS CANADIANS IT'S IN OUR
OWN ENLIGHTENED SELF-INTEREST
TO HAVE RULES AND RESTRAINTS
BECAUSE I TRY TO SAY IN MY
TALK, IT ALSO MAKES AN AWFUL
LOT MORE SENSE FOR RESOLVING
OTHER ISSUES AROUND THE WORLD
BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T HAVE RULES
AND RESTRAINTS THEN YOU'RE BACK
IN THE JUNGLE.
AND YOU HAVE THE DRUG
TRAFFICKERS AND YOU HAVE THE
KIND OF THING THAT'S NOW
HAPPENING WHERE EVERY SORT OF
WARLORD THINKS THAT THEY HAVE A
RIGHT TO RETALIATE, TO
PRE-EMPT, TO GO TO WAR QUOTE
WHY--TO GET THE TERRORISTS.
IT BECOMES THAT SORT OF
RATIONALE.
THAT'S WHAT THAT I THINK IS
MOST DISTURBING ABOUT IT.
(Audience applause)

Carol says THE, ONE OF THE
MOST--
OF ALL THE EXAMPLES YOU GIVE OF
THE KIND OF THUMBSCREWS THAT
HAVE BEEN APPLIED YOU DESCRIBED
MISSILE DEFENCE SHIELD AND JUST
HAVING HEARD PAUL CELLUCCI THIS
WEEK SAY THAT WE HAVE NO
ISSUES, CANADA AND THE UNITED
STATES, WE'RE GREAT PARTNERS
AND WE'RE GOING TO MOVE AHEAD
ON MISSILE DEFENCE SHIELD, YOU
GAVE VERY ALARMING TESTIMONY IN
YOUR BOOK AS TO HOW WE'VE
CAPITULATED IN THAT FRONT.

Lloyd says YEAH, I MEAN
I'M GLAD THAT CAME UP FOR
DISCUSSION.
I THINK THAT WE ARE--THIS
SOUNDS OVERDRAMATIC--AT A
CROSSROADS.
I THINK THE MISSILE DEFENCE
ISSUE, WHICH IS SORT OF REALLY
BELOW THE RADAR SCREEN, IT'S
WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH THE
CATACOMBS OF OTTAWA, I THINK
THE DEAL IS PRETTY MUCH DONE.
I THINK IT'S ALL BE NEGOTIATED.
IT'S JUST SIMPLY A MATTER OF
PUTTING A POLITICAL STAMP ON
IT.
BUT IT WILL BE A TURNING POINT
FOR THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE IT
WILL LEAD US INTO WHAT GENERAL
DALLAIRE TALKED ABOUT IN HIS
BOOK, INTEROPERABILITY, THAT
OUR DEFENCE, OUR CAPACITY TO BE
ABLE TO HAVE A DEGREE OF
CONTROL OVER OUR OWN ARMED
FORCES WILL BE FURTHER
INTEGRATED INTO A NORTH
AMERICAN SYSTEM.
AND SO EVEN WHEN IT COMES,
CAROL, TO TALKING ABOUT THE
NORTH, WHICH I JUST TALKED
ABOUT.
ONE CLEAR EXAMPLE, THE U.S.
DOES NOT RECOGNIZE CANADIAN
SOVEREIGNTY IN THE NORTH.
IF WE WANT TO PROVIDE AT SOME
POINT SOME DEMONSTRATION THAT
WE'VE GOT A STAKE IN THE NORTH
AND ALL OUR FORCES ARE TIED IN
TO A NORTH AMERICAN DEFENCE
COMMAND WHICH IS ALL RUN BY THE
AMERICAN GENERAL, HOW THE HELL
ARE WE GOING TO STAND UP FOR
CANADIAN SOVEREIGNTY AND THE
PROTECTION OF OUR NORTHERN
PEOPLE?
THAT'S THE KIND OF ISSUES WE'RE
INTO AND IT'S TAKING PLACE IN A
COVERT WAY.
THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE,
THROUGH THE VOTES OF THE
LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE
MAJORITY, WILL NOT HOLD PUBLIC
HEARINGS.
SOMEONE ASKED ABOUT A PUBLIC
REFERENDUM.
IT'S A GOOD IDEA.
YOU COULD MAKE IT HAPPEN.
AND I WOULD SUGGEST IT.
WANT ANOTHER WAY?
CAN 1,500 PEOPLE COME BACK TO
THIS ROOM NEXT WEEK AND HAVE A
GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM ACROSS
THIS COUNTRY MAKE A STATEMENT
ABOUT WHY MISSILE DEFENCE IS
GOING TO BASICALLY SHAVE DOWN
THE FREEDOM OF ACTION AND THE
SCOPE OF INDEPENDENCE FOR THIS
COUNTRY TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR
OURSELVES, FOR THE REST OF THE
WORLD.
CAN WE GET 1,500 PEOPLE OUT TO
DO THAT AND BEGIN TO GET
MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT FROM THE
TORONTO REGION AND THE WINNIPEG
REGION AND THE VANCOUVER REGION
TO BRING IN PRIVATE MEMBERS
BILLS TO DEMAND A PUBLIC
REFERENDUM.
THERE ARE WAYS OF MAKING THE
SYSTEM WORK IF YOU WANT TO DO
IT.
(Audience applause)

Carol says THIS IS VERY
IMPORTANT BECAUSE A NUMBER OF
PEOPLE.
A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE RAISED
THIS.
THEY'VE BEEN COMING TO ME AND
OTHERS HERE AND SAYING, WHAT
ARE WE GOING TO DO?
WE HAVE TO STOP THIS MISSILE
DEFENCE SHIELD INITIATIVE.
SO DO YOU THINK THAT'S THE BEST
COURSE TO TAKE IS A PRIVATE
MEMBERS BILL?

Lloyd says YEAH,
LOOKIT, YOU HAVE IN THIS TOWN.
I MEAN, WITH JOHN PALANI, I
MEAN THE NOBEL SCIENTIST FROM
THE UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO,
PROBABLY ONE OF THE WORLD'S
OUTSTANDING SPOKESPERSON.
HE UNDERSTANDS BOTH THE SCIENCE
OF THE ISSUE AND THE POLITICS
OF THE ISSUE.
MOBILIZE AROUND HIM, USE HIM.
I MEAN, GIVE THE JOHN THE KIND
OF SUPPORT.
AND THERE ARE OTHER GROUPS OUT
THERE.
AND PULL TOGETHER AND MAKE IT
HAPPEN.
LOOKIT, YOU'VE HAD A WONDERFUL
EXPOSITION ABOUT THE
EFFECTIVENESS OF NETWORKING.
AND I THINK THAT THIS IS AN
EXAMPLE OF IT.
AND I CAN TELL YOU AS A
POLITICIAN FOR CLOSE TO 27
YEARS YOU DO PAY ATTENTION.
WHEN THE HEAT TURNS ON AND THE
PRESSURE COMES AND THE LETTERS
START ARRIVING AND PEOPLE START
KNOCKING ON THE DOOR YOU PAY
ATTENTION.
AND I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED IS
THERE HASN'T BEEN SUFFICIENT
POLITICAL PRESSURE EXERCISED
AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT OF THE
DAY, ESPECIALLY A GOVERNMENT
THAT'S A MINORITY GOVERNMENT.
HEY, YOU KNOW, POLITICS IS
COUNTING NUMBERS.
YOU KNOW, WHAT NAPOLEON SAID OF
THE POPE, COUNT THE BATTALIONS.
WELL, LIBERALS KNOW HOW TO
COUNT BATTALIONS, I CAN TELL
YOU THAT.
IF THEY START COUNTING THE
BATTALIONS KNOWING THAT THEY
HAVE TO GO INTO A GENERAL
ELECTION AS A MINORITY
GOVERNMENT AND THEY GOT A LOT
OF CANADIANS MAD YOU JUST MIGHT
FIND THEY PUT THE BREAKS ON
FINALLY.

Carol says ALL RIGHT.
WE HAVE AN IDEA, WE HAVE AN
IDEA.
(Audience applauds)

Carol says ANOTHER VERY...
WE TALKED ABOUT
INTEROPERABILITY WITH THE
MILITARY WITH GENERAL DALLAIRE,
THE INTEROPERABILITY WITH
MISSILE DEFENCE SHIELD,
CONTINENTAL DEFENCE.
THE AREA OF IMMIGRATION I THINK
THAT YOU SPELL OUT IN THE BOOK.
THE OTHER EXTREMELY ALARMING
THING THAT'S HAPPENING WITH
IMMIGRATION POLICY.
AND IF YOU CAN TIE THAT WITH
HOW THE PATRIOT ACT IS COMING
TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU HERE IN
CANADA.

Lloyd says WELL, I
THINK NAOMI ALLUDED TO IT IN
HER REMARKS.
THAT WHEN WE SIGN THE BORDER
AGREEMENT, POST TERRORIST
ACTIVITY--AND I'M NOT SAYING WE
SHOULDN'T'VE SIGNED IT--THE
PROBLEM IS IT'S GOT 30
DIFFERENT MEASURES IN IT.
BUT BEYOND THAT ALL THE RULES
AND REGULATIONS ARE UNDER
SECRET COVER.
SO NOBODY KNOWS WHAT IT IS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DEALS
ARE BETWEEN THE RCMP AND THE
FBI, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
RULES ARE IN TERMS OF
TRANSFERRING INFORMATION ABOUT
PEOPLE.
ALL YOU SIMPLY KNOW IS THAT
WHEN THE ODD CASE POPS UP, LIKE
THE ARAR CASE, THAT IT'S A
DEMONSTRATION THAT WE ARE
BEGINNING TO SEE THAT THIS SORT
OF SUBTERRANEAN AGREEMENTS
SUBJECT TO NO OVERSIGHTS,
SUBJECT TO NO PUBLIC REVIEW,
ARE BASICALLY ERODING OUR
CHARTER OF RIGHTS.
AND I HATE TO SAY IT.
YOU KNOW, LOOKIT, I WAS A
PARTISAN POLITICIAN, I'VE NOW
AS I SAID ACQUIRED THIS NEW
NEUTERED STATUS--

(Audience laughs)

Lloyd continues BUT I THINK
THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
DEFINES US AS A GROUP OF PEOPLE
IS OUR CHARTER.
IT'S ONE OF THE FEW PLACES THAT
OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS THAT THE
WHOLE LEGAL POLITICAL SYSTEM
HAD TO RESPOND TO THE IDEA THAT
GROUPS HAVE RIGHTS, NOT JUST
INDIVIDUALS.
THAT IS AN ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT
ANTIDOTE TO THE KIND OF HATE
AND VIOLENCE THAT WE'VE HEARD
ABOUT TODAY COMING FROM
DIFFERENT FUNDAMENTALIST OR
SORT OF EXTREMIST GROUPS.
THAT IS OUR DEFENCE AND LET
WE'RE LETTING IT GET AWAY BY
HAVING A VERY LARGE TREATY THAT
IS SUBJECT TO NO PUBLIC
SURVEILLANCE, NO PARLIAMENTARY
EXAMINATION AND BEING
ADMINISTERED FOR REASONS THAT,
QUOTE ARE SECURITY.
AND LET ME JUST SAY THIS--

Carol says SO WE SAW THIS
WITH TOM RIDGE IN TOWN--

Lloyd says WELL, I MEAN
THAT WAS THE THING, THEY WERE
IN TWO WEEKS AGO TALKING AGAIN
ABOUT HOW WE ENHANCE, HOW WE
BUILD UPON IT.

Lloyd says AND WE HAVE
NOW SPENT ABOUT 8.7 BILLION DOLLARS ON
BORDER DEFENCE WITH THE UNITED
STATES.
ON OUR VARIOUS BORDER
PROTECTIONS.
GENERAL DALLAIRE SAID THE OTHER
SAY, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU
SPENT THAT ONE-TENTH OF THAT
MONEY, ONE-ONE-HUNDREDTH OF
THAT MONEY DEALING WITH THE
PLIGHT OF CHILDREN IN NORTHERN
UGANDA OR SUDAN OR OTHER AREAS?

Lloyd says WHAT A
DIFFERENCE THAT WOULD MAKE TO
THE SECURITY OF THE WORLD.
BUT WE'RE PUTTING 8.7.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHY, LOOK...
ONE THING I REALLY AGREE WITH,
AND THIS FORUM HAS COME AT AN
OPPORTUNE TIME.
LET'S GET BEYOND 9-11.
NOT THAT WE GET BEYOND
TERRORISM BECAUSE IT'S REAL.
LET'S GET BEYOND IRAQ.
LET'S GET BEYOND THE PAST
HISTORY OF IRAQ.
LET'S REALIZE JUST WHERE WE GO
FROM HERE AND LET'S NOW BEGIN
TO GET INTO DEFINING AS
CANADIANS WHAT WE CONSIDER TO
BE THE SECURITY PRIORITIES.
BEGIN TO PUT THEM INTO PLACE.
DEVELOP OUR OWN COALITIONS, OUR
OWN ALLIANCES, OUR OWN NETWORKS
AND ONE OF THE FIRST THING I
THINK WE NEED TO BEGIN TO DO IS
PUT IN PLACE THE RESPONSIBILITY
TO PROTECT THROUGH A STRONGER
COURT, THROUGH A STRONGER
ABILITY OF THE UNITED NATIONS
TO REACT TO CRISIS.
TO PUT INTO PLACE A SERIOUS
ISSUE DEALING WITH REFUGEE...
WE NEED A BRAND NEW REFUGEE
CONVENTION IN THIS WORLD.
THE OLD ONE IS 50 YEARS OUT OF
DATE.
AND WE ALSO HAVE TO START
PUTTING SOME MEASURES IN
DOMESTICALLY TO SUPPORT
IMMIGRANTS COMING INTO THIS
COUNTRY SO THEY CAN MAKE A
PROPER TRANSITION.
WE HAVE TO PUT THINGS INTO
GLOBAL LEARNING SO WE CAN BEGIN
DEVELOPING THE KIND OF THINGS
THAT HOMER DIXON WAS TALKING
ABOUT USING TECHNOLOGY TO
DEVELOP A GLOBAL EDUCATION
LEARNING NETWORK SO PEOPLE CAN
BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE
BASICALLY ALL THE SAME.
THERE'S SO MANY RESOURCES THAT
COULD BE APPLIED IF WE WEREN'T
SO OBSESSED.
AND I THINK NOW'S THE TIME TO
GET BEYOND THAT OBSESSION.

Carol says HOW DO WE DO
THAT?
YOU'VE GIVEN...
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS
INTEROPERABILITY, THE PATRIOT
ACT THAT'S INFECTING OUR...
AFFECTING OUR CHARTER.
THE PRESSURES FROM THE UNITED
STATES THAT ARE PROFOUND.
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT IS,
ACCORDING TO PAUL MARTIN,
THAT'S THE POLICY HE WANTS TO
TAKE.

Lloyd says SURE.

Carol says CAN WE DO THAT?
CAN WE TAKE OUR OWN VISION
GIVEN THOSE PRESSURES?

Lloyd says WELL, IF YOU
ASKED ME WHERE I WOULD START I
WOULD START WITH POLITICAL
REFORM IN THIS COUNTRY.
I THINK THAT OUR PARLIAMENTARY
SYSTEM IS BECOMING
DYSFUNCTIONAL.
(Audience applause)

Lloyd says AND I DON'T
SAY THAT WITH ANY GREAT
SATISFACTION BECAUSE I WAS A
PART OF THAT SYSTEM FOR MANY
YEARS.
I THINK WE HAVE TO CHANGE OUR
ELECTORAL SYSTEM.
I THINK IT IS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC
IN THIS DAY AND AGE THAT WE USE
FIRST PAST THE POST.
I MEAN, LET ME MAKE A BROAD
COMMENT TO PEOPLE IN THIS
ROOM--
(Audience applause)

Lloyd says I FOR THE
LIFE OF ME HAVEN'T UNDERSTOOD
WHY CANADIAN WOMEN WHO ACCEPTED
FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS THAT ONLY
21 PERCENT OF THE MEMBERS OF
PARLIAMENT ARE WOMEN WHEN THEY
REPRESENT OVER 50 percent OF THE
POPULATION.
YOU HAVE AN ELECTORAL SYSTEM, I
CAN TELL YOU, THAT
DISCRIMINATES AGAINST WOMEN.
IT DISCRIMINATES AGAINST
MINORITY GROUPS, IT
DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE
PEOPLE IN LARGE URBAN AREAS.
IF WE DON'T CHANGE THE SYSTEM
WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE
POLITICS.
AND ONE THING I CAN SAY FROM MY
OWN TIME AS A FOREIGN MINISTER
WHEN WE DID HUMAN SECURITY OR
THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL
COURT OR RESPONSIBILITY TO
PROTECT IT WAS THE WOMEN IN THE
CAUCUS AND THE WOMEN IN THE
CABINET AND THE WOMEN IN THE
COUNTRY WHO WERE FAR AHEAD OF
THE GUYS IN THE SUITS IN TERMS
OF SUPPORTING THOSE MEASURES.
I THINK WE BETTER GET THEM
ELECTED.

Carol says WHOO-HOO!
(Audience applause)

Lloyd says CAN I MAKE
MORE IDEA?

Carol says YES, YES, BEFORE
WE GOT TO THE AUDIENCE.

Lloyd says BEFORE I GO.
THE OTHER INSTITUTION...
LOOKIT, WE'RE THINKING OUT OF
THE BOX TODAY SO LET'S GO FOR
IT.
I THINK WE CAN TAKE THE SENATE,
AND HEAR ME OUT ON THIS THING.
THE SENATE, YOU KNOW, I'M A
WESTERNER, I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT
WE SHOULD HAVE AN ELECTED
SENATE TO BALANCE OFF ALL YOU
PEOPLE IN ONTARIO.
BUT--

Carol says (Laughs)
NO, NEVER.

Lloyd says I COULD
NEVER FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WOULD
DO WITH IT.
NOW I THINK I HAVE AN IDEA.
THAT ONE OF THE REAL ISSUES
THAT NAOMI KLEIN AND OTHERS
LIKE HER HAVE RAISED ARE, HOW
DO YOU PROVIDE GOVERNANCE AND
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR GLOBAL
DECISIONS?
HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THAT WHAT
TAKES PLACE AT THE WORLD TRADE
ORGANIZATION OR AT THE WORLD
BANK OR AT THE IMF HAS SOME
ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PEOPLE
WHO ELECT IT?
RIGHT NOW THERE'S A TOTAL GAP.
OUR AMBASSADOR TO THE WTO, A
WONDERFUL GUY BY THE NAME OF
SERGIO MARCHI, HE WAS A
COLLEAGUE OF MINE, HE GOES TO
CANCUN, WE SCREW IT UP ALONG
WITH EVERYBODY ELSE, HE GOES
BACK TO GENEVA, NOBODY EVER
HEARS FROM HIM AGAIN.TE
ELECTED SENATE IN WHICH THE
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA USED THAT
AS A BASIS FOR APPOINTING MANY
OF ITS SENIOR REPRESENTATIVES
IN GLOBAL INSTITUTIONS SO THAT
THEY HAVE TO BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE BY ELECTION IN THE
SENATE FOR THE DECISIONS MADE
BY CANADA.

Lloyd says ALL OF A
SUDDEN WE START HAVING A GLOBAL
DEMOCRACY IN A NEW KIND OF A
WAY.
THAT'S THE KIND OF THINKING OUT
OF THE BOX THAT I THINK WE NEED
TO BE LOOKING AT IN PROVIDING
ACCOUNTABILITY.

(Applause)

A caption reads “Special Thanks to Random House of Canada.”

Watch: Lloyd Axworthy on Navigating a New World: Canada's Globa