Transcript: Gerard Kennedy | Jun 12, 2005

The opening sequence rolls.

Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON "FOURTH
READING," COUNT SIZING THE
CLASSROOM.

Gerard Kennedy is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short wavy light brown hair. He wears glasses, a black suit, lilac shirt and brown tie.
THIS GOVERNMENT MAN
EXCELLENCE PUBLIC EDUCATION A
KEY PRIORITY.

Steve says WILL THE LIBERALS BE
ABLE TO KEEP THEIR PROMISES OF
SMALLER CLASS SIZES FOR
YOUNGER STUDENTS?

Steve sits in the studio 4 guests.

Steve is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit and a gray polo T-shirt.

Steve says HI EVERYBODY I AM STEVE
PAIKIN AND WELCOME "FOURTH
READING."
IN LAST ELECTION DALTON
MCGUINTY PROMISED TO CAP CLASS
SIZES AT 20 FOR YOUNGER
STUDENTS MCGUINTY ARGUED
CHILDREN FROM K TO THREE WOULD
LEARN BETTER IN SMALLER
CLASSES THE RECENT BUDGET IS
INCREASING SPENDING TO RECORD
17 BILLION DOLLARS.
IN PART, TO PHASE IN THAT
POLICY.
THIS WEEK, WE ARE ASK ONTARIO
EDUCATION MINISTER WHETHER HIS
GOVERNMENT WILL BE ABLE TO
KEEP THAT PROMISE FOR ALL
YOUNGER STUDENTS AND KEEP
EDUCATION PEACE IN THIS
PROVINCE.

A clip from the legislature rolls with the caption "Gerard Kennedy. Ontario Education Minister."

Gerard says THIS SEPTEMBER, ELEMENTARY
STUDENTS WILL GET MORE.

Steve says ONTARIO LIBERALS SAY THEY
ARE FOLLOWING THROUGH ON KEY
ELECTION PLEDGE TO CAP CLASS
SIZES AT 20 STUDENTS FOR
JUNIOR K TO GRADE THREE.
UNDER THE PLAN, ALREADY
ANNOUNCED IN YEAR'S BUDGET
ONTARIO EDUCATION MINISTER
KENNEDY SAYS HIS GOVERNMENT
WILL PROVIDE 126 MILLION DOLLARS MORE
FOR REDUCING CLASSES SIZES AND
36 MILLION WILL GO TO CREATING
MORE CLASSROOM SPACES.
AND MORE 90 MILLION OF THAT WILL BE ALLOTED
TO HIRING MORE TEACHERS THEY
SAY THEY WILL HIRE 1275 MORE
TEACHERS BY THIS FALL.
AND 600 OF WHOM WILL BE
SPECIALIST IN ARTS MUSIC AND
PHYSICAL EDUCATION.
THE LIBERALS SAY THAT 70 percent OF JK
TO GRADE 3 STUDENTS WILL BE IN
SMALLER CLASSES BY SEPTEMBER.
BUT THEY WOULDN'T SAY WHETHER
THIS MEANS STUDENTS WILL BE IN
CLASS OF 20 OR FEWER.

Gerard says IT IS CRUCIAL THAT STUDENTS
HAVE ONE-ON-ONE ATTENTION WITH
THEIR TEACHERS THAT THEY WERE
MISSING IN THE PAST,
MR. SPEAKER, SO THEY CAN
MASTER THE FUNDAMENTALS.
INCLUDING READING WRITING AND
MATT.

Steve says BUT OPPOSITION CRITICS SAY
INVESTMENTS IN EARLY YEARS
FALL SHORT THEY THAT I MEANS
THE GOVERNMENT MAY ONLY
SUCCEED IN REDUCING CLASS
SIZES NOT CAPPING THEM.

The caption changes to "Rosario Marchese. NDP Education Critic."

Rosario is in his early fifties, clean-shaven and with short straight brown hair. He wears a black suit, white shirt and striped tie.

He says THE MINISTER MADE PROMISE
TO CAP CLASS SIZES.
AND JK TO GRADE THREE OUT
SOLID NUMBER 20.
IN MY HUMBLE VIEW IT IS
IMPOSSIBLE.
THAT'S WHY YOU HAD MINISTER
OFTEN TALK ABOUT REDUCTION OF
CLASS SIZES.
YOU HAVE SEEN THAT AND THEY
MIX IT AND CONFUSE IT WITH
CAPPING.

Steve says OTHERS SAY PHONE THE
LIBERALS DO SUCCEED IN CAPPING
CLASS SIZES, SCHOOLS WOULDN'T
HAVE ENOUGH SPACE TO
ACCOMMODATE THE OVERFLOW.

The caption changes to "John Tory. Ontario PC Leader."

John Tory is in his early late forties, clean-shaven and with short wavy light brown hair. He wears a black suit, pale yellow shirt and striped tie.
He says CHILDREN ARE ALREADY IN
PORTABLE CLASSROOMS.
SHORT-TERM THEY SAY FINE FOR
REST OF THE YEAR OR WHATEVER
BUT, LONG-TERM, HAVE WE DONE
ALL OF THE PLANNING THAT'S
NECESSARY TO MAKE SURE THAT
THERE IS GOING TO BE PROPER
SPACE FOR KIDS OVER TIME IN
WHICH TO BE EDUCATED IF IT THERE
ARE GOING TO BE SMALLER SIZES
AND I THINK THE ANSWER IS NO.

Steve says OTHERS QUESTION LIBERAL
MOTIVES.
DURING LAST ELECTION MANY
ONTARIO TEACHER UNIONS THREW
THEIR SUPPORT BEHIND THE
LIBERAL UNIONS HAVE LONG
SUPPORTED HIRING MORE TEACHERS
TO ALLOW FOR INCREASED
PREPARATION TIME.
SOME SAY HIRING NEW TEACHERS
IS LESS ABOUT CAPPING CLASS
SIZES AND MORE ABOUT REWARDING
THE UNIONS FOR THEIR SUPPORT.

The caption changes to "John Snobelen. Former PC Education Minister."

John is in his mid-fifties, clean-shaven and balding. He wears a black polo T-shirt.

He says RIGHT NOW WHAT'S REALLY
CLEAR IS THAT THE PRIOR ME AND
MINISTER WOULD REGARD GET
STAND OVATION AT UNION MEETING
THAN THEY WOULD HAVE STUDENTS
DO BETTER IN MATT.
IF THEY WERE REALLY INTERESTED
THEY WOULD BE LOOK AT THICK
THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF ADD
MORNING TEACHERS AND HAVING
MORE PREP TIME AND LOOK WHAT
ARE RESOURCES THEY NEED.

Steve says BUT KEN CONDITION SAYS HIS
MAIN CONCERN IS ON TAR JOE
STUDENTS.

Gerard says AND THIS GOVERNMENT HAD
MACE EXCELLENCE PUBLIC
EDUCATION A KEY PRIORITY.
WE PUT OUR COMMITMENT BEHIND
EDUCATION BECAUSE WE OWE TO
OUR STUDENTS TO PROVIDE KIND
OF EDUCATION THIS THEY NEED IN
ORDER TO SUCCEED.

Steve says WELL, AFTER SOME PRETTY STORMY
YEARS WHEN MIKE HARRIS
CONSERVATIVES WERE IN POWER
ARE RELATIONS BETWEEN PROVINCE
AND TEACHERS REALLY ANY
BETTER?
LET'S GET VIEW OF ONTARIO
EDUCATION MINISTER KENNEDY.
WELCOME BACK TO TVO.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.
ON OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE YOU
KNOW THEM LOTS OF ADVICE FOR
YOU.
FORMER EDUCATION MINISTER ALL.
JANET ECKHART.
AND DAVE COOKE.
FORMER NDP EDUCATION MINISTER
AND SEAN CONWAY.
HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE
PEACE OR WAR BETWEEN YOU GUYS
AND THE TEACHERS THESE DAYS?

Gerard says I THINK THERE IS STABILITY AND
I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY
VERGING ON A UNIFIED AGENDA
THAT WE TRIAL HAVE A PLAN TO
MOVE FORWARD FOR STUDENT THAT
EVERYBODY AGREES WITH.
AND THAT IS REALLY THE ELUSIVE
THING TEAS WHAT YOU NEED TO BE
ABLE TO HAVE AND I THINK THAT
THE ROLE OF PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT.
WE DON'T RUNT 4700 SCHOOLS BUT
HELP SET WHETHER MOTIVATED
FRONT OF THE CLASSROOM WHETHER
THEY KNOW THEY ARE PLUGGED
INTO SOMETHING THAT'S
IMPORTANT THAT MATTERS FOR THE
KIDS THEY ARE ADDRESSING DAY
THAT'S WHERE WE ARE HEADED
RIGHT NOW AND I THINK WE HAVE
MADE PROGRESS WE HAVE GOT SOME
TEST RESULTS SHOWING THAT AND
WE HAVE GOT SOME IMPROVEMENT
IN TERMS OF OTHER INDICATORS
THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE
SCHOOLS.
AND WE SEEM TO BE HAVING THIS
WEEK ALMOST ALL OF THE LABOUR
CONTRACTS SIGNED FOUR TEACHERS
FOR FOUR YEARS WHICH NEVER
BEEN DONE BEFORE.
BUT REALLY THE WAY IT WAS DONE
THEY FOUND WAY TO AGREE THEY
DID UNDER PEACEFUL CONDITIONS
AND ANYWAY THAT SAID WE ARE
PREPARED TO PUT THINGS ASIDE
AND DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY
BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT IT HAS TO
BE DONE.

Steve says WE WILL TALK TEST SCORES
AND CLASS SIZES BUT WAY GET
GENERAL LAY OF THE LAND HERE.
SOME WOULD ALLEGE THAT THINGS
ARE MORE PEACEFUL BETWEEN YOU
AND UNIONS TODAY AS OPPOSED TO
WHEN I ECONOMIC WAS MINISTER
BECAUSE YOU HAVE -- THEIR
WORDS -- BRIBED TEACHER UNIONS
WITH LOTS OF EXTRA MONEY AND
HIRING LOTS MORE TEACHERS AND
THAT'S WHY THEY ARE HAPPIER.
IS THAT FAIR?

Gerard says IT ISN’T FAIR TO SAY THAT'S
WHAT IT TAKE -- IT TOOK
RESPECT.
IT JUST A TOOK AN AT ATTITUDE OF
RESPECT.
IT TOOK A DISCIPLINE OF
RESPECT ON PART OF GOVERNMENT
IT IS EASE CITY BLAME SOMEONE
ELSE IF WE ARE NOT WORKING IN
EDUCATION YOU GET A NEW
MINISTER YOU WILL NOT GET
BOARD'S FAULT OR TEACHERS
FAULT.
AND IN FRANKLY THERE HAS BEEN
FOR VARIETY -- EVERYBODY TOOK
UP CONFLICT IN EDUCATION.
AND AT THE END OF THE DAY
THERE HAD A TO BE WAY OF
GETTING BEYOND IT.
WHO IS AGAINST GOOD PUBLIC
EDUCATION ANY WAY IS THE
DOLLARS WE ARE SPENDING
RELATIVELY MODEST THEY ARE
SIGNIFICANT RELATIVE TO
PERHAPS SOME OF THE SOURCES THAT
WERE THERE BEFORE BUT FOR
EXAMPLE, THE SALARY SETTLEMENT
FOR TEACHERS 2 percent.
2 percent, 2.5 AND 3 percent.
AND ALL ACROSS THE PROVINCE WE
ARE GETTING 95 percent OF APPROVAL
RATINGS WHY?
BECAUSE THERE IS A PROGRAM
THERE AS WELL.
THERE IS A PROGRAM OF DOING
BETTER AND PROGRAM OF DOING
THE THINGS THAT I THINK FAIR
MIND ONTARIANS WOULD SAY
BECAUSE TEACHERS TEACH BECAUSE
THEY WANT TO MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.
THERE WERE TWO MANY
INTERFERENCE AND TOO MANY
POLICIES THAT DIDN'T MAKE
SENSE AT THE SCHOOL LEVEL WE
ARE CHANGING THAT.
THAT'S -- IF THERE A BETTER
RELATIONSHIP AND I BELIEVE
THERE IS.
THAT'S WHY.

Steve says LET'S ASK FAIR MINDED
ONTARIAN TO YOUR RIGHT.
JANET ECKER?

The caption changes to "Janet Ecker. Former PC Cabinet Minister."

Janet is in her late forties, with short straight blond hair. She wears glasses, a patterned blouse, a blue blazer, a pair of earrings and a gold brooch.

She says OH, DEAR.
WELL BY INTERFERENCE IF BY
INTERFERENCE THE MINISTER
MEANS A NEW CURRICULUM
STANDARDS TO MAKE SURE THAT
TEACHERS WERE GETTING THE
TRAINING THAT THEY NEEDED AND
THE PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT
THAT THEY NEED.
STANDARDS IN TERMS OF TESTS ON
LITERACY AND NUMBERS I MEAN IF
THAT'S KIND OF INTERFERENCE
THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT...
ABSOLUTELY.
THEN I WOULD SAY THAT WAS GOOD
INTERFERENCE SO.

Gerard says I GUESS WOULD SAY,
THOUGH --.

Janet says FOR YOU TO MOVE FORWARD
WITH --.

Gerard says AND THERE RACE INSPECT THAT
ARE STILL THERE.
BUT THERE ALSO DISCONNECT IF
YOU HAVE GOT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE
FAILING LITERACY TESTS THEN
THERE HAS TO BE A PROGRAM.

Janet says HOW ABOUT EARLY READING
PROGRAM?

Gerard says BUT THAT CAN'T BE TOKEN
PROGRAM IT HAS TO EVERYWHERE.

Janet says WELL IT WAS.
EVERY SCHOOL.

Gerard says THAT'S MAKE AGENT
AVAILABLE.
NOW THERE ARE TWO LEAD HE HAD
TEACHER TO MATH AND TWO FOR
READING.

Janet says AND THAT'S A GOOD THING AND

Gerard says SO, I THINK THAT THING HERE SO
THAT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS MORE
ABOUT THE DYNAMICS THERE ARE
PROGRAMS AND THERE ARE
POLICIES AND THERE ARE
TEXTBOOKS BUT TENDED DAY
CREATING A HEALTHY
ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE DO
FEEL RESPECTED AND WHERE THEY
ARE ACTING IN CONCERT BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT WE NEED ALL OF OUR
PUBLIC SERVICES.

Steve says LET ME ASK DAVE
COOK IS THIS THERE ARE DOING
SO MUCH BETTER.
OR IS IT THAT AFTER THE
CONSERVATIVES, FOR REASONS
THEY THOUGHT WERE PERFECTLY
RESPECTABLE WHO WANTED
SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN
EDUCATION SYSTEM, ANYBODY
WOULD LOOK BETTER BY
COMPARISON.

The caption changes to "Dave Cooke. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Dave is in his early late forties, clean-shaven and with short receding brown hair. He wears a blue suit and a blue shirt.

He says WELL, IT IS -- THAT'S A
DIFFICULT WAY -- I AM NOT SURE
HOW I WANT TO ANSWER THAT.
BUT, I THINK AS IT
COMBINATION.
I AM NOT GOING TO PUT ALL OF
THE BLAME ON THE CONSERVATIVES
THERE HAD ABOUT IS ON UNREST
IN THE SYSTEM FOR QUITE
SOMETIME.
THAT AND THE TEACHERS UNIONS
WE WERE AT MUCH ASPHALT AS
ANYBODY ELSE AND I WOULD ARGUE
THAT -- WELL THINK THE
CONSERVATIVES DID SOME THINGS
REALLY BADLY IN TERMS OF
COMMUNICATIONS AND
PARTICULARLY WHEN THE
PREMIER WOULD GO OUT AND TALK
ABOUT THE UNION BOSSES AND IT
WAS APPEARED THAT IT WAS
ATTACKING TIMERS IN THE
PROVINCE THAT'S SERVED NO
USEFUL PURPOSE AT ALL.
BUT THERE WAS AN IMBALANCE AT
THAT TIME.
THERE HAS TO BE BALANCE OF
POWER IN THE SYSTEM.
IT CAN'T BE THAT TEACHERS
UNIONS CARRY SO MUCH POWER
THAT THE INTEREST OF STUDENTS
COME SECOND TO THE TEACHER'S
UNIONS.
AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF
THE POSITIVE THINGS THAT
CONSERVATIVES DID TALK ABOUT.
AND I THINK THAT WENT
OVERBOARD.
BUT, HERE NOW, I THINK WE HAVE
GOT TO BE CAREFUL THAT WE
DON'T GO TOO FAR THE OTHER
WAY.
I THINK THE PROVINCIAL
FRAMEWORK AGREEMENTS ARE
WORKING OUT AND DELIVERING
SOME PEACE AND STABILITY WHICH
IS GOOD.
HOW MUCH WAS GIVEN TO GET THAT,
WHAT THE END RESULTS ARE GOING
TO BE AND WHAT NEXT STEP PLAN
AND I WOULD ARGUE NOW WE NEED
TO SAY TO THE TEACHERS UNIONS,
IN RETURN, WE ARE GOING TO
LOOK AT NEW BILL 14U7BZ AND
HAVE NEW FRAMEWORK FOR
NEGOTIATIONS.
THERE WILL HAVE TO BE SOME
STUFF DON'T PROVINCIAL LEVEL
WE WILL NEVER GO BACK
COMPLETELY LOCAL BARGAINING
THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN
ONTARIO NOW AND THAT IN RETURN,
THINGS LIKE THE WORK TO RULES
AND THE BANNING OF EXTRA CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES AND THE REFUSING TO
WRITE ON REPORT CARDS, THAT'S
IS GOING TO BE OUTLINED.

Steve says CAN YOU MAKE DEAL WITH
THEM?

Gerard says RIGHT NOW, I THINK THE
FIRST OF ALL, ALL THE DEALS THAT WE
HAVE THEY ARE BEING MADE UP IF
THERE ANY REPORT CARDS ARE
BEING DONE TRIPS ARE BEING
RESCHEDULED BECAUSE WE DID
NEGOTIATE.
THERE PART OF THE OUR
DISCUSSION THOUGH ARE ONLY
CONDITIONS IN WHICH YOU HAVE
ACCESS TO PROVINCIAL
ARRANGEMENT IN TERMS OF LONGER
TERM IT IS NOT GOING TO BE
RIGHT BACK.
WITH ALL RESPECT I UNDERSTAND
WHAT YOU’RE SAYING ABOUT BILL 100 THAT THE
CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT TOOK IT
WAY.
BUT AT THE END DAY OF THE
WHOLE POINT OF HAVING PEACE TO
GET PROGRESS FOR STUDENTS.
THAT'S WHERE WE GOING AND
THAT'S WHERE WE EXPECT.

Dave says I AGREE.
BUT THE POINT I AM MAKING IS WHAT
YOU DONE PROVINCIAL FRAME
WORKS NO TEACHERS UNION IN ITS
RIGHT MIND IS GOING TO
GO BACK AND SAY OKAY WELL NEXT
TIME AROUND THAT WAS JUST -- I
THINK

Gerard says THERE IS WITH THE AMOUNT
FUNDING AND POLICY CONTROL
THAT WAS GIVEN TO PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT IT DOES MAKE SENSE
TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY YOU
CAN'T BE SITTING ON YOUR HANDS
AND THERE ARE ISSUES THAT WILL
HAVE TO BE.
THERE ARE SHOULD OF SOME
ISSUES DEALT WITH LOCALLY.
YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SITTING
ON FOUR-YEAR AGREEMENT YOU
WANT A SAFETY BELT.
BUT I GUESS WHAT I WOULD STATE
NEXT STEP NOT GO RIGHT BACK
INTO LABOUR ISSUES BUT TO GET
AT THE STUDENTS PERFORMANCE.
IT IS TO DO THE THINGS THAT
NEED TO GET DOWN AND FRANKLY
IN THE PRINCIPAL AGREEMENT IS
THE HIGH SCHOOL TEACHERS
AGREEING ON STUDENT SUCCESS
TEACHERS ELEMENTARY --.

Steve says LET ME GET IN HERE.

Gerard says IT IS ALREADY PART OF THAT.

Steve points at Sean and says THIS GUY HAS NOT STAYED
THIS QUIET FOR THIS LONG.
I NEED TO GET HIM IN IF DO YOU
THINK ADMITTEDLY THERE IS A
LOT MORE PEACE WITH LABOUR
UNIONS TODAY THAN THERE WAS
WHEN JANET ECKER HAD THE
JOB.
THAT IS COME TOO OF HIGH A
COST IN YOUR VIEW AND I MEAN
HAVE THEY CREATED NEW NORMS
THAT FUTURE EDUCATION
MINISTERS AND FUTURE
GOVERNMENT ARE GOING TO HAVE A
HECK OF A TIME SATISFYING
WHATEVER THE FUTURE HOLDS?

The caption changes to "Sean Conway. Former Liberal Cabinet Minister."

Sean is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short straight light brown hair. He wears glasses, a blue suit, blue shirt and patterned tie.

He says WELL I SUSPECT THERE A LOT
OF PARENTS AND STUDENTS NOW
THE PROVINCE WHO ARE VERY
HAPPY THAT THERE APPEARS TO BE
STABILITY AND RELATIVE PEACE.
I DON'T EXPECT IT WILL STAY
THIS QUIET FOREVER.
I THINK DAVID AND JANET AND I
ALL HAVE SOME
EXPERIENCE AND THERE AS DAVID
RIGHTLY OBSERVED POWER
BALANCES HERE THAT WILL SHIFT
FROM TIME TO TIME.
BUT I THINK AND I HAVE BEEN IN
RECENT YEARS TEACHING IN THE
UNIVERSITIES OF ONTARIO AND I
AM MEETING A LOT OF STUDENTS
WHO ARE ON THE ONE HAND I
THINK DO APPRECIATE SOME OF
THE MORE OBVIOUS RIG GORE IN
THE CURE I ARE LUMP THAT GREW
OUT OF THE LATE RAE YEARS AND
THROUGH THE HARRIS PERIOD.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, STUDENTS WHO
REALLY FELT THAT THEIR
ELEMENTARY AND HIGH SCHOOL
EDUCATION WAS SERIOUSLY
IMPAIRED BY CONSTANT TURMOIL.
BUT I DO THINK DALTON MCGUINTY
AND GERARD KENNEDY DESERVE A
LOT OF CREDIT FOR NOT ONLY
PRODUCE THE ENVIRONMENT OF.
BUT ALSO, PUTTING FOCUS
BACK ON KEEPING FOCUS YOU KNOW
WAYS MINISTER OF EDUCATION FOR
FOUR YEARS AND ALTOGETHER TOO
MUCH OF MY TIME AND ENERGY WAS
SPEND ON ISSUES OF GOVERNANCE
AND FINANCE WHAT I LIKE ABOUT
CURRENT DEBATE AND SOME OF THE
DEBATE IN HARRIS YEARS THAT WE
WERE AT LAST TALKING ABOUT
SUBSTANTIAL ISSUES.

Janet says I MEAN, MINISTER, I
THINK, STABILITY IN CLASSROOM
CERTAINLY IMPORTANT IN AND NO
ONE GOING TO DISAGREE WITH
THAT AND THAT'S SOMETHING WITH
LONGER TERM AGREEMENTS VERY,
VERY GOOD THING.
BUT, YOU HAVE TO AND I GUESS
THE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT
PEOPLE HAVE IS WITH MORE
TEACHERS AND PAYING TEACHERS
MORE, DOES NOT NECESSARILY
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RESEARCH
GET YOU IMPROVED STUDENT
OUTCOMES AND UNLESS YOU MAIN
TAINT I ARE GORE AND STANDARDS
AND ALSO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF
THE TEACHERS ARE GETTING THE
TRAINING AND THE DEVELOPMENT
THAT THEY NEED TO TEACH
BETTER.
BALLS THAT'S IMPORTANT.

Gerard says I DO AGREE BUT I GO BACK TO
MY EARLIER POINT.
YOU CAN'T INFLICT TRAINING YOU
WANT ENTHUSIASM AND STOP AND
EXPLAIN TO THEM LIKE FOR
EXAMPLE.

Janet says WHERE IS QUID PRO QUO.

Gerard says WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT ARE IS
IF TEACHERS SHOW UP HAVING TO
BE PERSUADED TO TEACH WELL.
IT IS NOT TRUE.
THEY ARE THERE MOTIVATED AND
YOU HAVE TO TAP INTO THAT AND
YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE TRAINING
AND PROVIDE CURRICULUM SUPPORT
AND PROVIDE CONDITIONS.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT CLEARLY
IT IS AFLAC YOU ARE INTERESTS
TO SEE THEM MOTIVATED AND
FOCUSED ON AGENDA.

Steve says LET'S RIGHT INTO THAT.
AND I AM GLAD YOU LET ME TO
THAT I KNOW YOUR PREMIER HAS
SAID IN LAST COUPLE WEEKS THAT
70 percent OF PRIMARY STUDENTS WILL
HAVE SMALLER CLASS SIZES THIS
SEPTEMBER.
DOES THAT MEAN 20 PER CLASS AS
PROMISED?

Gerard says WELL IT DOES MEAN THAT YEAR
FOLLOWING OR 2007-IT ALL WILL
BE IN 20 LESS THIS YEAR WILL
BE QUITE A FEW WILL BE IN
THOSE SIZE CLASSES.
BUT IT IS A PROS IS THAT WE
ARE GOING THROUGH IT IS COMING
FROM WAY BACK IN TERMS OF THE
SIZE OF CLASSES.
BUT WE ARE MAKING
SUBSTANTIAL INROADS WE WILL
HAVE 25 HUNDRED NEW TEACHERS
THERE.
THEY WILL HAVE REDUCED CLASS
SIZES FOR 07 percent STUDENTS BEING
IN LAST WHO SIZE HAS GONE
DOWN.
AND THEN, THE YEAR LATER WE
WILL MAKE ANOTHER SUBSTANTIAL
INVESTMENT AND PROGRESS.
AND IN THE YEAR FOLLOWING THAT, AS
WE SAID WE WOULD FOUR-YEAR
PHASE IN WE WILL HAVE 20 OR
LESS.
THERE ARE ISSUES TO DO AND
THEREFORE YOU DON'T JUST
INFLICT IT ON THE SYSTEM
YOU ACTUALLY PLAN IT AND YOU
WORK CAREFUL WITH THE BOARDS WE
HAVE HAD A LOT OF PREPARATIONS
DONE.
THERE ARE THREE 300,000 EMPTY
SPACES IN ONTARIO WE WILL MAKE
USE OF A LOT OF THOSE.
FIRST OF ALL FOR CLASS SIZE
REDUCTION AND THEN FOR OUR DAY
CARE PROGRAM.

Steve says YOU KNOW THE EDUCATION
GURU SAID IF I HAD A
BILLION DOLLARS MAKING SMALLER
CLASS SIZE WOULD NOT BE HIS
TOP PRIORITY.

Gerard says THAT'S NOT WHEN WE ARE
DOING.
WE ARE NOT SPENDING THAT MUCH
MONEY AND THE PART THAT
MICHAEL DOES AGREE WITH IF YOU
LOAD IN RIGHT KIND OF USE IN
TERMS OF TEACHERS THAT ARE
TRAINED TO MAKE USE OF THOSE SMALLER CLASSES
IT DOES GIVE YOU A
BOOST ON LITERACY AND NUMBERS
AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE DOING.
IT IS NOT ACROSS THE BOARD.
AND IT IS NOT COSTING
ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THAT.

Janet says BUT THE ONE ISSUES AND
AGAIN I AGREE WITH YOU THAT
YOU KNOW I MEAN SETTING OUT
COME TARGETS AND THAT IS A
GOOD THING.
IN TERMS TRYING TO FOCUS ON
IMPROVED STUDENTS ACHIEVEMENT
IT GETS BACK TO THE FACT THAT
THE MAJORITY OF TEACHERS HAVE
HAVING MOTIVATE TO DO THE
SUFFICIENT CARE ABOUT THE KIDS,
ETCETERA.
BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT
THOSE TEACHERS AND IF YOU
CAN AT THAT PARENTS THERE IS
ALWAYS ONE OR TWO THAT THEIR
CHILD HAS HAD IS STRUGGLING
NOT MEETING THE STANDARD THAT
YOU WANT OR THAT SHOULD NOT BE
TEACHING THAT KIND AFTER CLASS
OR WHATEVER.
OUT.

Gerard says WE HAVE SHORTEST PREP TAKES
TIMES OF ANY OF THE PROVINCES
FOR NEW TEACHERS AND WE ARE
BRINGING IN NEXT SEPTEMBER.
AN INDUCTION YEAR FOR NEW TEACHERS
SO THEY WILL GO THROUGH A
SUBSEQUENT LEARNING YEAR.
THEY WILL GRADUATE.

Janet says IT WAS PART OF OUR
FRAMEWORK.

Gerard says AND THEN THEY WILL REAL
INDUCTION YEAR AND THEY WILL GO
THROUGH ASSESSMENT DURING THAT
YEAR.
WHICH THEY WEREN'T GETTING.

Janet says WHAT ABOUT TEN YEARS LATER?

Gerard says RIGHT NOW THERE IS TEACHER
PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL THAT WE
ARE LOOKING AT.
THERE WILL AND THERE ALWAYS...
THE TEACHER PROFESSIONAL
DEVELOPMENT STILL THERE WE
WILL AMEND HOW IT WORKS TO
MAKE IT MORE DEVELOPMENT
ORIENTATED THERE STILL AN
ASSESSMENT DONE OF TEACHERS
WE ARE SAYING ABOUT
THE -- YOUR QUESTION IS THOUGH
HOW MUCH SUPPORT THE TEACHERS
GET TO DO WELL IN THE FIRST
PLACE.
TO BE ABLE TO -- BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT WE
WERE LOSING -- I HAVE TO TELL
YOU THIS YOU ARE LOSING ONE IN
THREE NEW TEACHERS IT COSTS 30
MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Janet says WELL YOU WANT TO KEEP
TEACHER IN THE CLASSROOM.

Sean says ONE OF QUESTIONS THAT I
WANTED TO EXPLORE IS THAT IN
JANET RAISES I THINK GOOD
QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IT
PRODUCE GOOD EDUCATIONAL
RESULT WHICH SURELY WHAT WE
ALL WANT.
MY MEMORY OF THE SEARCH ON
THIS SUBJECT THAT ONE OF
REALLY IMPORTANT POSITIVES IN
A SUCCESSFUL SCHOOL SYSTEM IS
HAVING A SCIENCE TEACHER WHO REALLY
UNDERSTANDS AND IS
PROPERLY TRAINED AND PREPARED
FOR SCIENCE CLASS.
WHEN I WAS MINISTER OF
EDUCATION I WILL TELL YOU
THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN
THAT WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE
PARTICULARLY IN SOME OF THE
CORE AREAS TEACHING WHERE THEY
DID NOT HAVE DEMONSTRATED
COMPETENCY AND I GUESS MY
QUESTION FOR YOU MINISTER WHAT
KIND PROGRESS CAN YOU REPORT
TO PARENTS ABOUT THE FACT THAT
WE HAVE GOT -- ARE THERE MORE
TEACHERS HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF
TEACHERS PARTICULARLY IN AREAS
LIKE MATH AND SIGH OWNS HAVE
REQUISITE TRAINING TO BE
TEACHING THE SPECIALITY.

Gerard says THAT'S WHAT OUR PROGRAM
WILL DO.

Sean says HOW ARE WE DOING THAT.

Gerard says 400 THIS YEAR AND 2000 OVER
NEXT THREE YEARS OF PEOPLE WHO
CAN TEACH MATH AND SCIENCE BUT ALSO THE
ARTS AND MUSIC AND THAT WOULD
DELIVER THAT THIS HIGHER
QUALITY STANDARD BECAUSE IT
GENERALIZED BEFORE. THEY
WILL HAVE TO MEET EXTRA TRAINING
THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE THEIR
INITIAL QUALIFICATIONS
AND THEY WILL THEN PROVIDE A
HIGHER STANDARD ON THOSE
SUBJECTS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T
JUST INCREASE CURRICULUM YOU
HAVE INCREASE THE CONSTRUCTION,
TOO.
AND.

Sean says ARE YOU SATISFIED THAT
FACULTIES OF EDUCATION ARE ON
SIDE WITH YOU TO ENSURE THAT
THE PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION
THAT TEACHERS ARE GETTING IS
ADEQUATE?

Gerard says I AM NOT CHARGE OF THAT.

Sean says BUT THE GOVERNMENT IS.

Gerard says AND I WOULD SAY.

Janet says IT IS VERY GOOD QUESTION.

Gerard says WE HAVE FACULTY AT THE
TABLE.
THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN ONE YEAR
PREPARATION IS NOT ENOUGH.
WELL, WE LOOK AT THE INDUCTION
YEARS WAY ENHANCE THAT WE HAVE
INVITED THEM TO HELP US WITH
THAT.
AND IT WOULD TEACHERS NEW
TEACHERS SAY THEY LEARN IN THE
FIELD, THEY LEARN TEACHING.
AND THIS GIVES WHOLE OTHER
YEAR WHERE THEY ARE BOTH
TEACHING AND BEING ASSESSED AND
BEING SUPPORTED M WHAT THEY
ARE DOING WE HAVE TO DO WITH
FIELD BECAUSE, MOST TEACHING
HAS TO BE ABLE TO KEEP UP.
WITH SIGNS MATH OR WHATEVER.

Dave says I AM THRILLED TO HEAR YOU
ARE MOVING ALTHOUGH I AM NOT
ENTIRELY SURE THAT YOU ARE
TALKING ABOUT TWO-YEAR
PROGRAM.
WE DID HAVE PILOT PROJECT FOR
TWO-YEAR PROGRAM WITH NUMBER
OF FACULTIES AND WE HAD TO...
THAT WAS PUT ON HOLD FOR A
WHILE UNDER THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT.
SO THINK THAT IS REALLY GOOD
MOVE BUT THE POINT THAT I
WOULD STILL MAKE IS THAT YOU
ARE DOING A LOT OF GOOD
THINGS.
BUT THERE SOME STRUCTURAL
THINGS THAT STILL NEED TO BE
DONE SO THAT THINGS LIKE PEACE
AND STABILITY ARE NOT
SOMETHING THAT JUST HAPPEN
UNDER YOUR GOVERNMENT, OR
UNDER YOUR LEADERSHIP.
SO, I HOPE THAT WHEN YOUR
MOVING FORWARD THAT YOU WILL
TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE
RESPONSIBILITIES AND ROLES WITH
THE UNIONS SO THAT PERHAPS
THERE IS A BETTER BALANCE
BETWEEN --.

Gerard says I WOULD SAY AND YOU GUYS
HAVE LONGER EXPERIENCE WITH
GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT I SAY
THAT.
THAT PEOPLE A ROUND TABLE HAVE
SEEN THINGS COME AND GO AND SO
ON IN TERMS OF CYCLES BUT I
THINK YOU MIGHT AGREE THAT
TEACHERS UNIONS WERE NOT AS
INTENSE AND WEREN'T AS
IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF THE
DAILY DIALOGUE ABOUT EDUCATION
WHEN THERE WAS NOT FEELING OF
THREAT AND FEELING OF CHANGE
THAT WAS NOT BEING UNDERSTOOD
AND SO ON.

Janet says HOLD ON.
HOLD ON HE WOULD.

Gerard says BUT I WOULD SAY -- I WOULD
SAY THOUGH IS THAT LOOK
THERE -- YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE
PEOPLE THAT FEEL THEY ARE
REPRESENTED BY SOMEONE THAT'S
PART OF THE OVERALL THING AND
WE THINK THAT IT CAN FIT IN WE
THINK IT CAN WORK AND WHAT WE
HAVE HAD IN RECENT DAYS WE
HAVE GOT PEOPLE FROM THE TEACHER
REPRESENTATIVES THE PRINCIPALS,
THE BOARDS SITTING DOWN AROUND THE
TABLE TRYING SOLVE THE
PROBLEMS.
WE HAVE SET UP A PARTNERSHIP
TABLE THEY ARE THERE DOING
THOSE THINGS.

Steve says WE HAVE GOT 30
SECONDS LEFT.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ONE LAST
THING THE BRITISH MINISTER OF
EDUCATION OFFERED TO RESIGN IF
THE CHANGES THAT HE WAS
PROPOSING, FOR EXAMPLE, BENCH
MARKS THAT STUDENTS HAD TO HIT
AND OWE ON IF THEY DIDN'T COME
TO PASS.
WOULD YOU MAKE SAME OFFER?

Gerard says ABSOLUTELY.
I DO I ALREADY HAVE.
I MEAN THERE -- I BELIEVE IN
THE SYSTEM, I BELIEVE IN THE
KIDS THAT WE HAVE GOT AND I
BELIEVE IN THEIR POTENTIAL AND
THINK WE CAN UNLOCK THAT BY
GETTING ADULTS GETTING THEIR
ACT TOGETHER WE WILL REACH OUR
TARGET.
75 percent 2007-8.
WE WILL GET -- ABSOLUTE SAME
STANDARD.
AND IT IS -- AND WE WILL ALSO
ACHIEVE A TARGET WE ARE ABOUT
TO DECLARE IN TERMS OF HIGH
SCHOOL OF DROP OUTS AND THERE
HAS BEEN TO –

Steve says IS DROP OUT
REALLY 30 percent.

Gerard says IT IS AND IT WILL GO DOWN AND
IT WILL RAPIDLY DOWN BECAUSE
IT NEEDS TO.
THAT'S ONE TOUGHEST LEG ABOUT
A SEES WE HAVE.
NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Steve says I HAVE GOT TALK TO THESE
GUYS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU
ARE 56 AND YOU WANT TO KEEP
WORK GERARD KENNEDY THANK YOU
SO MUCH FOR VISITING US AT
TVO.
COMING UP APPLAUSE AND
CONDEMNATION AS THE LIBERALS MOVE
TO BAN MANDATORY RETIREMENT
AFTER THE AGE OF 65.

John Tory says I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD
AGREE THAT DISCRIMINATION
BASED UPON AGE SOMETHING
THAT'S OUTDATED CONCEPT THAT
WE ALLOWED AT ALL I THINK
SURPRISES A LOT OF PEOPLE.
BUT THERE ARE SOME ISSUES
RELATED TO PENSIONS AND
BENEFITS AND THE IMPACT IT IS
GOING HAVE ON THE WORKPLACE
THAT HE WE WILL HAVE TO
CONSIDER AS WE GO THROUGH THE
DEBATE.

A clip from a session at the legislature rolls.

A caption reads "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader."

Howard is in his early fifties, clean-shaven and with short straight graying hair. He wears glasses, a beige suit, white shirt and striped tie.

He says YOUR AGENDA HAS NOTHING
TO DO WITH ENSURING DIGNITY AND FINANCIAL SECURITY FOR
OLDER WORKERS.
YOU ARE YOU ARE NOT TALKING
HERE ABOUT FREEDOM 55.
THE DALTON MCGUINTY GOVERNMENT
TALKING ABOUT WORKING LONGER
AND HARDER UNTIL YOU ARE 75.

The caption changes to "Honourable Christopher Bentley. Minister of Labour."

Christopher is in his early fifties, clan-shaven and with shirt straight brown hair. He wears a blue suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.

He says NOW THERE ARE THOSE OPPOSED TO
CHOICE SPEAKER.
BUT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL WORKERS
OUT THERE, WHO HAVE NOT HAD
THE PROTECTION OF THE HUMAN
RIGHTS CODE, WE THINK IT IS
HIGH TIME THEY HAD THE RIGHT
TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR
THEMSELVES.
AND NOT TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE
LIKE THE LEADER OF THE THIRD
PARTY MAKE IT FOR THEM.
IT IS RIGHT THING TO DO
SPEAKER.
AND IT IS TIME WE MOVE INTO
THE 21ST CENTURY.
AND NOT STUCK IN 19S.

Steve says LET'S TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT
WHAT LIBERALS HAVE PROPOSED.
THE LEGISLATION BANS MANDATORY
RETIREMENT FOR THOSE OVER THE
AGE OF 65. IT WILL GO INTO AFFECT
ONE YEAR AFTER BECOMING LAW TO
GIVE WORK PLACES TRANSITION
PERIOD TO PREPARE.
SOME EXCEPTIONS WILL BE ALLOWED FOR OCCUPATION WITH SPECIAL
REQUIREMENTS.
SUCH AS FIREFIGHTERS WHO NEED
TO BE TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE.
SENIORS WHO CONTINUE TO WORK
WILL STILL BE ABLE TO DRAW ON
THE CANADA PENSION PLAN AND
ONTARIO THE DRUG BENEFIT PLAN.
HOWEVER, EMPLOYERS WILL BE
ALLOWED TO STOP WORKPLACE
BENEFITS FOR THOSE OVER 65 WHO
CHOOSE TO KEEP ON WORKING.
SEAN DO WE NEED THIS CHANGE OF
POLICY IN ONTARIO TODAY?

Sean says WELL I THINK WE DO.
A NUMBER OF OTHER CANADIAN
PROVINCES HAVE DONE THIS MANY
OF THE AMERICAN STATES HAVE
DONE IT.
THERE ARE SOME ISSUES AND I
THINK THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO
BE.

Steve says LIKE WHAT?

Sean says I THINK FOR EXAMPLE ONE OF THE
QUESTIONS WILL BE WHAT DO YOU
DO WITH CONNWAY WHEN HE IS
CLEARLY PAS PAST HIS
COMPETENCE AND DOES NOT WANT
TO RETIRE.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU DO?

Sean says WELL THAT'S WILL HAVE TO BE
WORKED OUT.

Steve says WE WERE JUST HAVING THAT
CONVERSATION THE OTHER DAY
ACTUALLY.
JUST TEASING.

Sean says I THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE BUT
REALITY IS THAT THE DEMOCRAT
GRAPHIC PROFILE FACING MUCH
DEVELOPED WORLD SUCH THAT WE
ARE GOING TO NEED A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE QUITE FIT AND
ABLE AND WANT TO CARRY ON
BEYOND 65.
YOU KNOW AND BISMARCK,
LEGISLATED THE 65 RETIREMENT AGE
ABOUT 140 YEARS AGO.
I THINK THE AVERAGE LIFE-SPAN
AFTER EUROPEAN WAS SOMETHING
LIKE 56.
I THINK THE LAST TIME CHECKED
YOU KNOW THE AVERAGE CANADIAN
MALE WAS LIVE TOOK ABOUT 79 AND
AVERAGE CANADIAN FEMALE WAS
LIVING TO BE ABOUT 82 OR 83. I
THINK IS RIGHT STEP BUT THERE
HAVE SOME ISSUE AND I THINK
THEY WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS.

Steve says DAVE COOKE, I WANT TO GO TO YOU
NEXT BECAUSE THE NDP HAS BEEN
REALLY OPPOSED TO THIS.
FOR A BUNCH REASONS THEY ARE
WORRIED ABOUT RAISING -- THIS
RAISING RETIREMENT AGE FROM 56
TO 67.
AND IT OBSCURES A BIGGER
DEBATE ABOUT PENSIONS THAT WE
NEED TO HAVE.
THIN EDGE OF THE OMAN KNEE
THINGS YOU HAVE SPLIT FROM
YOUR BODY ON TIME TO TIME ON
VARIOUS THINGS.

Dave says THOSE TOUGH ONE.
I MEAN I THINK WHEN I WAS
GROWING UP, STRIKES THAT MY
DAD WAS OUT ON FIGHTING FOR.
DECENT RETIREMENT PACKAGES.
AND PENSIONS.
AND THIS IS A -- COMING FROM
LABOUR TOWN THIS SOMETHING
WHERE PEOPLE FEEL VERY
STRONGLY THAT IT IS STEP
BACKWARDS.
I THINK WE COULD HAVE A BETTER
DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS IF IT
WAS COMBINED WITH SOME REFORMS
I MEAN PEOPLE THINK THAT
PEOPLE RETIRED WITH GREAT
PENSIONS.
25 percent PEOPLE IN PRIVATE SECTOR
RETIRE WITH PENSIONS.
40 percent IF YOU ADD IN OVERALL
WITH THE PUBLIC SECTOR.
SO IT IS NOT AS IF PEOPLE HAVE
TRUE OPTIONS.
AND WHEN THE MINISTER TALKS
ABOUT REMOVING 65, AND SAYING
THAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THE
OPTIONS WELL LET'S HAVE REAL
OPTIONS.
LET'S NOT MAKE IT FINANCIAL
NECESSITY TO WORK PAST 65.
LET'S DO IT BECAUSE YOU WANT
TO DO IT.
SO I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE
LOOKED AT IN A BROADER CONTEXT
THAN JUST THIS WITHOUT THE
OTHER SIDE.

Steve says OUT OF THE 100,000, 65 YEAR
OLDS WHO WILL RETIRE IN THE
PROVINCE THIS COMING YEAR,
ONLY 4,000 WERE TOLD WANT TO
KEEP WORKING.
AS CABINET MINISTER DO YOU
THINK IT MAKES GOOD POLICY
SENSE TO CREATE A VAST NEW
LAW FOR SUCH A SMALL
NUMBER PEOPLE THAT IT WILL
ACTUALLY AFFECT?

Janet says WELL, I THINK IT IS -- IT
IS HARD TO REDIRECT DOWN THE
ROAD AS POLICY CHANGES COME IN
EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
AS THAT DEMOGRAPHIC WAVE WORKS
ITS WAY FULLY THROUGH THE
POPULATIONS.
BUT I THINK THAT THE
GOVERNMENT IS GOING HAVE SOME
COMMITTEE HEARING AND WILL BE
TAKING SOME TIME ON THIS BILL
AND I THINK THEY SHOULD.
BECAUSE, THERE A LOT OF
LURKING PROBLEMS THERE.
SEAN'S MENTIONED SOME OF THEM
PROFESSIONAL COMPETENCE I
THINK VERY, VERY BIG ISSUE.
ESPECIALLY FOR YOU KNOW
MEDICAL PROFESSIONS NURSING
PROFESSIONS.
AND YOU KNOW LEGAL PROFESSIONS
WHERE YOU KNOW WHEN YOU GET
OVER 65 SOME PEOPLE ARE
TERRIFIC AND CARRY ON AND DO
LATE AGES.
SOME PEOPLE CAN'T.
SO,.

Steve says WHICH CATEGORY WOULD YOU
PUT OUR CURRENT PRIME MINISTER
IN ON THAT ONE.

Janet says I WILL NOT TOUCH THAT.
BUT THAT'S ARGUMENT FOR
MANDATORY RETIREMENT TRIAL.
BUT ANYWAY I THINK THE
COMMITTEE HEARINGS SHOULD
SMOKE OUT A LOT OF THOSE
ISSUES.

Sean says I JUST REMIND YOU THAT
LOUIE JOHN AND PEARSON,
WILLIAM GLADSTONE.
ACHIEVED THEIR GREATEST PRIME
MINISTERIAL PRESIDENTIAL SUCCESS
WELL AFTER 65.
SO, YOU KNOW IT IS A MIXED
STORY.
BUT -- AND I KEPT COME BACK TO
TWO POINTS IT IS DIFFERENT
ECONOMY TODAY.
IT IS POST INDUSTRIAL ECONOMY MUCH
MORE FOCUS ON SERVICE SECTOR.
MUCH BETTER PUBLIC HELD
STANDARDS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE
HAD 50 YEARS AGO AND THE REALITY
IS WITH THE DECLINING BIRTH
RATE, AND QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR
IMMIGRATION POLICIES AS TO WHERE
ARE WE GOING TO GET OUR –

Dave says IT IS
DIFFERENT WORKPLACE AGREE BUT
PART OF PRESSURES IN THE
WORKPLACE RIGHT NOW ARE NO TO
IMPROVE BENEFITS, AND IMPROVE
PENSIONS THEY ARE ACTUALLY TO
MOVE THE OTHER DIRECTION.
SO, THAT'S WHY I SAY, LET'S
COMBINE IT WITH A DISCUSSION
ON REALLY GIVING PEOPLE A
CHOICE.

Sean says I THINK THAT'S FAIR POINT.
AND I THINK DAVID MAKES A VERY
GOOD POINT THERE SOME ISSUES
LIKE INCOME MAINTENANCE.
PENSION POLICY.
BUT THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL
QUESTION HERE THAT THE
INDUSTRIAL SOCIETIES PARTICULARLY
IN THE WEST WILL FACE WHAT ARE
THEY GOING TO DO IN TERMS OF
THEIR LABOUR FORCE GIVEN THEIR
DOMESTIC BIRTH RATES BECAUSE
IN LAST STATISTICS CANADA DATA
I LOOKED AT THE CANADIAN
BIRTH RATE WAS BELOW THE
REPLACEMENT LEVEL.
OH, AND THE BABY BOOMERS,
PRESENT COMPANY INCLUDED, I
HATE TO SAY IT FOLKS BUT WE
ARE AGING AND WHEN WE EXIT THE
LABOUR FORCE WE WILL DO IT IN
A DIFFERENT WAY BECAUSE, OUR
NUMBERS ARE GREATER.
BUT SO ARE OUR ATTITUDES AND
SO ARE OUR EXPECTATIONS.
I THINK IT IS GOOD PUBLIC
POLICY.
BUT THERE ARE SOME IMPORTANT
ASPECTS AND RELATED ISSUES.

Steve says SEAN CONWAY AND JANET
ECKHART DAVE COOK.
THANK YOU FOR THIS DISCUSSION
AND THE ONE PRIOR TO IT AS
WELL.
SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.
AND THAT'S "FOURTH READING."
FOR THIS WEEK I AM STEVE
PAIKIN.
UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY ... THANK
YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Editors, Dean Henry and Empyreal Palmer.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2005, The Ontario Educational.

Watch: Gerard Kennedy