Transcript: Can You Spare $5 Billion? | Apr 17, 2005

The opening sequence rolls.

Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON
"FOURTH READING" THE POLITICS
MUCH CLOSING THE 23 BILL
DOLLAR GAP. MARRIAGE OF
CONVENIENCE OR SHOTGUN
WEDDING FOR THE FEDS?

Fast clips show images of sessions at the legislature.

Steve sits in the studio 3 guests.

Steve is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit and a blue shirt.

Steve says HI EVERYBODY WELCOME
TO "FOURTH READING" FOR THIS
WEEK IN POLITICS THERE IS NO
FURY LIKE TAX PAYER SCORN AND
HAVE COME APPLIANCES
POLITICIANS THAN ONE ABOUT TO
FACE THAT WAS THE.
OBSERVERS SAY THAT DESCRIPTION
SEEMS TO FIT BOTH THE FEDERAL
AND PROVINCIAL LIBERALS THESE
DAYS.
OTTAWA GRITS MAYBE ON THE
ELECT WITHIN WEEKS AND NEED
EVERY ONTARIO VOTE THEY CAN
GET.
QUEEN'S PARK LIBERALS ARE
DESPERATE NOT TO BREAK YET
ANOTHER PROMISE.
BALANCING THEIR BOOKS.
THAT COULD EXPLAIN WHY PAUL
MARTIN JUST MAY COME UP WITH
AT LEAST SOME OF THE 5 BILLION
DOLLARS PREMIER DALTON
MCGUINTY HAS RECENTLY BEEN
AFTER.

Dalton McGuinty is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short straight brown hair. He wears a black suit, white shirt and red tie.

He says I ONE OF THE THING YOU HAVE
GOT TO DO IS STAY IN TOUCH
WITH YOUR ELECTORATE AND
PEOPLE ARE SAYING WE HAVE GOT
AN ISSUE HERE.
IT IS SIMPLY TOO WIDE.
LET'S FIND WAY TO WORK
TOGETHER

Steve says FOR WEEKS THE PRIME
MINISTER HAS REFUSED TO MEET
WITH PREMIER DALTON MCGUINTY
BUT JUST HOURS AFTER THE
PREMIER'S COMMENTS, MARTIN HAD
A CHANGE OF HEART.

A speaker at the legislature says AND I KNOW THE PRIME
MINISTER NOW WANTS TO BE
CAREFUL WHICH LIBERALS HE IS
WITH.
BUT I AM SURE THE PREMIER OF
ONTARIO IS NOT LOOKING FOR
SPONSORSHIP MONEY SO MY
QUESTION IS THERE THE PRIME
MINISTER MEET WITH THE
PREMIER -- MEET WITH PREMIER
MCGUINTY AT THE FIRST
OPPORTUNITY.

A caption reads "Paul Martin. Prime Minister."

Paul is in his mid-sixties, clean-shaven and with short wavy gray hair. He wears a dark gray suit, white shirt and black tie.

He says OBVIOUSLY I WILL MEET WITH
MISTER MCGUINTY I AM PREPARED TO
MEET WITH ANY PREMIER.

Steve says THERE HAVE BEEN FURTHER
SEEN OF THAW IN RELATION LAST
WEEKEND AID PRIME MINISTER
ONTARIO LIEUTENANT MET WITH
ONTARIO FINANCE MINISTER
SORBARA AT SORBARA’S HOME
DISCUSS POSSIBLE CON
CORRECTION FOR ONTARIO.
THE LIBERAL BRAND HAS TAKEN A BEAT
IN DAMAGING TESTIMONY AT THE
GOMERY INQUIRY.
AND SOME ANALYSTS SAY WITH A
POSSIBLE ELECTION ON THE HORIZON,
THE FEDERAL LIBERALS NEED ALL OF
THE FRIENDS THEY CAN GET.

A newspaper article appears with the headline "Martin’s damage control."

The caption changes to "Graham White. University of Toronto."

Graham is in his mid-sixties, with short wavy white hair and a beard. He wears a white shirt.

He says THE LIBERALS IN OTTAWA CAN
RECEIPT POLLS TREAT WELL.
THEY KNOW THAT PHONE THEY
RECOVER EVEN FAIRLY
SUBSTANTIALLY THEY ARE
TOAST IN QUEBEC.
THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY WIN ANY
MORE SEATS SO PROBABLY LOSS A
FEW THEREFORE, IN ORDER TO
SALVAGE THEIR GOVERNMENT IF AN
ELECTION COMES ALONG, THEY
HAVE TO KEEP THOSE ONTARIO
SEATS.

Steve reads data from an Ipsos-Reid poll.

Steve says POPULAR SUPPORT FOR THE
MARTIN LIBERALS HAS BEEN
WAKE IN ONTARIO LATEST POLL
SHOWS 40 percent ONTARIO SUPPORT
HARPER'S CONSERVATIVE.
34 percent SUPPORT THE MARTIN
LIBERALS.
AND 21 percent SUPPORT NDP.
AND 6 percent THE GREEN PARTY.

Steve says THE MCGUINTY LIBERALS HAVE THEIR OWN REASONS TO HOPE
A DEAL WITH CAN BE REACHED
WITH A BUDGET EXPECTED WITHIN
MONTH AND 6 BILLION DOLLAR
PROVINCIAL DEFICIT, THE
LIBERALS NON TAR JOE ARE THAT
TIGHT SPOT MCGUINTY IS ASKING
FOR 5 BILLION DOLLARS FOR FROM
OTTAWA WHICH HE SAYS IS
ONTARIO'S SHARE OF THE MASSIVE
FEDERAL SURPLUS.
THE PREMIER APPEARS READY TO
BREAK HIS PROMISE TO BATTLE
BOOKS OVER HIS FIRST TERM AND
THERE ARE MORE PROMISES TO
KEEP.

Graham says GIVEN WHAT HAPPENED IN LAST
YEAR'S BUDGET THEY REALLY
POLITICALLY CAN'T DO THAT
AGAIN.
THAT IS, BREAK THEIR PROMISE
NOT TO RAISE TAX.
AND IT IS CLEAR THEY DON'T
LEGAL HAVE STOMACH FOR THE
SERIOUS KINDS OF CUTS THAT
WOULD BE NECESSARY IF THEY ARE
GOING TO BALANCE THE BUDGET.
THAT LEAVES THE MAIN OUT FOR
THEM AS A SIGNIFICANT INFLUX
OF CASH FROM OTTAWA.

Steve says BUT, CRITICS SAID McGUINTY’S
ATTITUDE TOWARD THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
HAS SABOTAGED ONTARIO'S CHANCE.

The caption changes to "John Tory. Ontario PC Leader."

John is in his early late forties, clean-shaven and with short wavy light brown hair. He wears a black suit, blue shirt and yellow tie.

He says NORMALLY WHEN YOU SORT OF
PUNCH THEM AND YELL AT THEM
THEIR REACTION IS DIFFERENT IN
TERMS WHETHER THEY WILLY
RESPOND FAVOURABLY THAN IF YOU
GO AND SIT DOWN AND TRY TO
REASON WITH THEM.
I DON'T THINK WE TRIED THE
REASON AGENT APPROACH FIRST
BECAUSE, THIS AROSE ALL OF A
SUDDEN.
IN HIS MIND.
AND THERE WAS -- YOU KNOW
THERE WAS NEED TO SORT OF LOOK
AGGRESSIVE OUT OF THE CHUTE AS
OPPOSED TO GOING DOWN AND TRYING
TO REASON ON TO.

Steve says OTHERS SAY THEY EXPECT TO SEE
COMMITMENT FROM PAUL MARTIN
BUT NO FOLLOW THROUGH.

The caption changes to "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader."

Howard is in his early fifties, clean-shaven and with short straight graying hair. He wears a blue suit, blue shirt and striped tie.

He says I FULLY EXPECT THAT WITHIN
THE NEXT WEEK OR SO YOU ARE
GOING SEE PAUL MARTIN COME OUT
WITH A SPLENDOROUS PLAN FOR
ONTARIO.
BUT, LET'S FACE IT.
THESE WILL ALL BE PRE-ELECTION
PROMISE AND I THINK WE HAVE
ALL SEEN LIBERAL PRE-ELECTION
PROMISES BEFORE.

Steve says BUT GREG SORBARA SAYS HE WILL KEEP
PUSH FOR WHAT HE CALLS
ONTARIO'S FAIR SHARE.

The caption changes to "Greg Sorbara. Ontario Finance Minister."

Greg is in his late fifties, clean-shaven and with short wavy graying hair. He wears a black suit, blue tie and striped shirt.

He says WHAT WE HAVE SAID FROM DAY
ONE IS THAT 23 BILLION DOLLAR
GAP IS TOO MUCH.
IT PLACE TOO GREAT AFTER
BURDEN ON THE ONTARIO ECONOMY
AND IT MUST BE REDRESSED.

Steve says OKAY.
WILL ONTARIO GET SOME EXTRA
MONEY AND WHAT'S THE POLITICS
BEHIND ALL OF THIS?
HERE TO HIPS ARE QUEEN PARK'S
ANALYST.
SEAN CONWAY AND FORMER
EDUCATION MINISTER JANET ECKER
AND FORMER EDUCATION MINISTER
DAVE COOKE.
THE EDUCATION.

Janet says NOW THAT WE HAVE GOT THAT
SORTED OUT.

Steve says JANET YOU FIRST WHY THE
APPARENT THAW IN RELATIONS
BETWEEN THE MARTIN AND DALTON

The caption changes to "Janet Ecker. Former PC Cabinet Minister."

Janet is in her late forties, with short straight blond hair. She wears glasses, a patterned blouse, a blue blazer and a gold brooch.

She says I THINK IT IS CALLED
POLITICS MARTIN NEEDS O
ONTARIO.
HE ALSO SHOWING A GREAT
TENDENCY TO BEND WHEN PUSHED.
ON SOMETHING.
COULD YOU KICK UP ENOUGH OF A
FUSS.
AND HE TRIES TO MAKE A DEAL
WITH YOU.
I THINK FROM MCGUINTY'S
PERSPECTIVE I MEAN IS CAUGHT
WITH GREAT EXPECTATIONS.
GREAT SPENDING THAT THEY HAVE
BEEN DOING ON ANYTHING AND
EVERYTHING.
PROMISES TO BALANCE
BUDGET.
THE AUDITOR HANDED HIM 3.9
BILLION DOLLAR HOLE IN HIS
BUDGET.
SO THERE, IS PRESSURE ON BOTH
THEM TO DO SOME KIND AFTER
DEAL.
AND I THINK OUT WAS THOUGH BUT
I THINK OTTAWA HAS TO LISTEN
BECAUSE THERE IS A LEGITIMATE ARGUE
MEANT TO FAIR SHARE FOR
ONTARIO AND IF THEY DON'T PAY
ATTENTION TO ONTARIO AS
ECONOMY AT THE ENGINE OF THE ECONOMY
OF THIS COUNTRY, WE ARE
GOING TO HAVE A THIRD WORLD
ECONOMY THIRD WORLD COUNTRY
WITH A BALANCED BUDGET.

Steve says WE KNOW A LOT OF POLITICS
INVOLVED I WONDER HOW MUCH DID
HARPER QUESTIONS BELINDA
STRONACH'S APPARENT
WILLINGNESS TO SHOW SOME
INTEREST IN THIS FILE GET THE
PRIME MINISTER'S ATTENTION?

The caption changes to "Sean Conway. Former Liberal Cabinet Minister."

Sean is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short straight light brown hair. He wears glasses, a blue suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.

He says I THINK IT PROBABLY GOT HIS
ATTENTION TO SOME AGREE.
BUT I THINK JANUARY SET RIGHT.
THE REALITY IS THAT FOR THE
LAST FOUR TERMS, THE FEDERAL
LIBERALS HAVE HAD MAJORITY
GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE
OVERWHELMINGLY DEPENDENT ON ONTARIO.
PAUL MARTIN TODAY IS 130 SEATS,
132 SEATS IN PARLIAMENT AND
OVER 07 OF THEM COME FROM
ONTARIO FOR THE REASON THAT
GRAHAM WHITE GAVE ON YOUR
INTRODUCTION PIECE I THINK IT
IS TOWARD IMAGINE THE FEDERAL
LIBERALS HOLDING ON TO POWER
IN THE NEXT ELECTION WHEN EVER
COMES WITHOUT DOING OR HOPING
TO DO ALMOST AS WELL IN
ONTARIO.
THE OTHER THING I THINK IS –
JANET REMIND MOVE OF THIS.
BUT DO YOU REMEMBER 25 YEARS
AGO, IN THE CLARK DAVIS ERA,
THERE WAS NO LOYAL
CONSERVATIVE THAN BILL DAVIS
AND I MEAN HE DIDN'T LIKE TO
BE OFFSIDE WITH HIS FEDERAL
PARTNER.
BUT DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN CLARK TOOK
OFFICE IN -- I THINK IT WAS
MAY OF 1979.
WE GOT THE CROSS BE BUDGET
THAT HAD SOME ENERGY POLICY
THAT WAS VERY TOUGH FOR
ONTARIO.

Steve says RAISED THE GAS TAX.

Sean says YES.
AND BILL DAVIS I WILL NEVER
FORGET IT HAVING TO CLEARLY
DISTANCE HIMSELF AND BRING
SOME PRESSURE SOME NOT
INSIGNIFICANT PRESSURE TO BEAR
ON MISTER CLARK.
AND TWO OR THREE MONTHS LATE
BETTER CLARK WAS OUT OF OFFICE
AND BACK IN OPPOSITION.
IN PART BECAUSE HE MISREAD IS
AT MINORITY PRIME MINISTER OF
CANADA THE MOOD OF ONTARIO
PARTICULARLY ON ECONOMIC
MATTERS.

Steve says WHY DO YOU THINK IT HAS
TAKEN SO LONG TO HAVE THIS
ISSUE SHOW UP?

The caption changes to "Dave Cooke. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Dave is in his early late forties, clean-shaven and with short receding brown hair. He wears a black suit and a blue shirt.

He says I THINK IT DOES THAT WITH THE
GOMERY COMMISSION.
I THINK THAT THERE SO MUCH
PRESSURE ON MARTIN NOW THAT
THE PUBLIC IN ONTARIO IS
PAYING SOME ATTENTION BUT I
THINK WHEN THERE IS ALL OF
THESE OTHER POLITICAL
PRESSURES, THAT ARE PUSHING
THE MARTIN SUPPORT DOWN SO LOW
THIS JUST ADDS ONTO IT.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE YOU NEED TO
TRY TO SORT SOMETHING OUT.
BUT I ALSO THINK THERE IS A...
THERE IS A PROBLEM THAT WELL
THERE IS PROVINCIAL LIBERAL
PARTY AND FEDERAL LIBERAL
PARTY IS THERE STILL A LOT OF
THOSE SAME PEOPLE IN EACH OF
THE RIDING ASSOCIATIONS.
AND IF WE ARE GOING TO GO FOR
AN ELECTION, MCGUINTY'S
LIBERAL IN EACH RIDING HAVE TO
BE OUT WORKING FOR MARTIN'S
LIBERALS SO THERE HAS GOT TO
BE SOME EFFORT TO COME
TOGETHER BUT I AM STILL NOT
NOT CONVINCED THAT IT IS THERE.
SOMETHING MIGHT HAPPEN.

Steve says THAT'S WHAT IS NOT THERE?

Dave says THAT WILL BE SOME KIND
AFTER DEAL THERE MAY BE
SOMETHING.
BUT I MEAN LET'S LOOK AT THAT
TIME.
THERE WAS A MEETING WITH
MINISTER VOLPE AND SORBARA AND
THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE...
THEY REALLY GOT TO SOME KIND
OF AN AGREEMENT.
AND THEN THE NEXT DAY OR THE
DAY AFTER, THEY HAD NOT EVEN
COME TO A COMMON COMMUNICATION
AGREEMENT.

Steve says WELL ACCORDING TO ONE
NEWSPAPER REPORT THEY HAD COME
TO AN AGREEMENT AND THEN THE
NEXT DAY SORBARA SAID NOT
TRUE.

Janet says BUT YOU KNOW THINK WHAT YOU
ARE GOING SEE I WOULD BE VERY
SURPRISED IF WILL YOU SEE
MARTIN GIVE THE PREMIER A
CHECK FOR 5 MILLION.
I THINK WHAT YOU ARE GOING SEE
IS THEY ARE GOING TO DO DEAL
ON IMMIGRATION OF SOME KIND
WHERE ONTARIO WILL GET MORE
GENEROUS AS THEY SHOULD SHARE
OF FEDERAL RESOURCES FOR
INTEGRATING IMMIGRANTS INTO
ONTARIO I THINK YOU’RE GONNA SEE
SOMETHING ON INFRASTRUCTURE.
BORDER SECURITY.
YOU KNOW SO THINK THEY HAVE
GOT OUT COUPLE OF AREAS WHERE
THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO
DO SOME SORT OF A DEAL.

Dave says IT WILL HAVE TO BE BIG
CLIMB DOWN BECAUSE WE WILL NOT
COME ANYWHERE CLOSE TO FIVE
BILLION.

Steve says BUT YOU GET SOMETHING WHICH IS
BETTER THAN THEY EXPECTED
PERHAPS.

Sean says AND IN FAIRNESS TO DALTON
MCGUINTY PARTICULARLY AND TO
HIS FINANCE MINISTER SORBARA,
AS WELL, THEY HAVE BEEN I
THINK FAIRLY CAREFUL IN SAYING
THAT THEY DON'T EXPECT I THINK
THE WHOLE DEAL.
THEY DO WANT TO SEE SOME
PROGRESS.
AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE
REALLY INTERESTING TO WATCH, I
AGREE WITH JANET I THINK THE
EASY THING TO DO IS TO BE
SCENE SEEM TO BE MOVING
QUICKLY ON SOMETHING LIKE
IMMIGRATION.
ONTARIO TAKES OVER 54 percent OF ALL
OF CANADA'S NEW IMMIGRANTS AND WE GET A DEAL THAT
IS ROUGHLY 25 percent I THINK IT IS
OF THE FEDERAL DOLLAR PROVIDED TO
QUEBEC.
THAT'S I THINK GOT TO CHANGE.
I THINK IT WILL CHANGE.
I THINK YOU MAY ALSO SEE SOME
MOVEMENT ON SOMETHING LIKE
POST SECONDARY EDUCATION OR
LABOUR MARKET I WOULD LOOK
LOOK IN THOSE AREAS.
I DON'T THINK ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT WILL GET EVERYTHING
IT WANTS BUT I THINK THE
GENIUS HERE WILL BE TO FOR
PARTICULARLY PRIME MINISTER
MARTIN IF THERE IS IN FACT TO
BE AN FEDERAL GENERAL ELECTION
SOONER THAN WE EXPECTED, TO
SHOW SOME PROGRESS BECAUSE
ONTARIO SEATS ARE VERY
CRITICAL AND IF YOU REMEMBER
THE LAST FEDERAL CAMPAIGN A
YEAR AGO, FOR THAT FIRST TWO
OR THREE WEEKS IT DIDN'T LOOK
LIKE MISTER MARTIN WAS GOING END
TO UP WITH ANYTHING LIKE 73
SEATS OR WHATEVER THE FINAL
NUMBER WAS.

Steve says I DON'T -- 74 I THINK.
I DON'T THINK THAT -- WELL I
SHOULD ASK -- I DON'T KNOW HOW
MANY HAD CHANCE TO READ ANDREW
COIN'S PIECE WHERE HE
ESSENTIALLY SAID THIS 23
BILLION DOLLAR GAP THAT DALTON
MCGUINTY HAS BEEN CAMPAIGNING
ABOUT FOR LAST SEVERAL WEEKS
IN HIS VIEW IS BASICALLY FIX.
AND IN HILLS VIEW, HE SAID
THIS IS JUST A FANCY WAY
DIFFERENTLY PARAPHRASING HERE
BUT FANCY WAVE PROVINCIAL
LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AVOIDING
TAKING TOUGH DECISIONS LIKE
RAISING MORE TAX TO PAY ITS
BILLS AND OR CUTTING SPENDING.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT JANET?

Janet says WELL IT CERTAINLY -- THERE
IS NO QUESTION THIS IS AN
EASIER OUT.
FOR THE LINEAL GOVERNMENT NON
TAR JOE.
IF THEY GET CASH FROM OTTAWA.
AND YES YOU CAN -- THERE IS A
LOT OF ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHETHER
THE GAP IS THIS BIG OR THIS
BIG OR WHATEVER.
I THINK PREMIER MCGUINTY'S
BEEN FAIRLY CLEVER IN USING
STATS CAN FEDERAL DAY TO MAKE
THE CASE.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, AT
THE END OF THE DAY SET FIGURES
ASIDE OTTAWA IS SITTING THERE
COUNTING HOW MUCH LIKE THEIR
BIG DEBATE HOW BIG IS THERE
SURPLUS.
WHERE ALL OF THE PROVINCES
EXCEPT ALBERTA BUT ALL OF THE
OTHERS AND ONTARIO ARE SITTING
THERE EITHER TITTERING ON
DEFICIT BACK IN DEFICIT
STRUGGLING TO MEET THE NEEDS
OF HEALTH AND EDUCATION IN
THOSE ARE TWO BIGGEST GROWTH
PROGRAMS IN THE COUNTRY.

Dave says THAT'S WHERE THE LONG-TERM
LAST TO COME THESE WITH IN-OFF
AGREEMENT IS WHAT'S GOT
ONTARIO IN THE PROBLEM IN THE
FIRST PLACE WHERE YOU MAKE
ONE-OFF DEALINGS WITH
EAST COAST OR WITH QUEBEC.

Sean says BUT THINK THE ANDREW COIN
PIECE IS CAUTIONARY TALE FOR
THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT BECAUSE
WHETHER IT IS NATIONAL POST
THE "GLOBE AND MAIL" OR
SEVERAL OTHER MEDIA THAT I CAN
THINK OF THAT ARE QUITE
IMPORTANT IN ONTARIO, THEY END
TO BRING TO THIS KIND AFTER
DISCUSSION A NATIONAL
PERSPECTIVE.
AND THAT'S GOING TO GENERALLY
SPEAKING FAVOUR THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT OVER ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT IN THIS PROVINCE.
AND I THINK THAT'S REAL
CHALLENGE FOR ANY PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT IN ONTARIO THAT
ONTARIO TEND TO SEE THEMSELVES
AS CANADIAN FIRST AND THEN
MEDIA THAT SHED QUARTERED HERE
GENERALLY SPEAKING BRINGS A
NATIONAL BIAS TO THESE KINDS
OF QUESTIONS.

Janet says THAT'S QUITE TRUE BUT I
THINK ALSO FAIR SHARE FOR
ONTARIO WHICH IS WHERE YOU
DIANE CUNNINHAM AND THEN MIKE
HARRIS GOVERNMENT STARTED THE FAIR
SHARE FOR ONTARIO THEY
ARE SEEING OTTAWA WITH
LOTS OF MEAN AND SEEING
SCHOOLS AND HOSPITAL NEEDING
MORE MONEY AND SEEING
THEMSELVES PAYING HIGHER
ONTARIO TAX.
SO TO THEM, TO A LOT OF
ONTARIO VOTERS THIS IS
SLAM-DUNK WIN.

Steve says LET ME PICK UP ON THAT.
BECAUSE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT HAS
SIGNED A NEW DEAL WITH THE
DOCTOR THAT COST 120 MILLION
MORE THAN THE FIRST DEAL COST.
HOSPITALS I THINK GOT 200
MILLION MORE THAN ORIGINALLY
ANTICIPATED.

Janet says AND THAT BATTLE IS NOT OVER.

Steve says YES AND WE SAW THIS WEEK
THE ELEMENTARY TEACHERS GET A
VERY NICE FOUR-YEAR CONTRACT.
500 MILLION IS THE ESTIMATED
COST WHICH MAYBE MORE THAN THE
PROVINCE ANTICIPATED STRONG
PAY AS WELL.
SO HOW MUCH IS ALL OF THAT
DRIVING THE NEED TO GET MORE
MONEY OUT OF THE FEDS RATHER
THAN THE GAP THAT YOU HAVE
ALREADY TALKED ABOUT?

Janet says WELL, I THINK THAT'S A BIG
DRIVER FOR MCGUINTY BECAUSE
THEY -- AS I SAID IT IS
EASIEST OUT FOR HIM.
THE SETTLEMENT THEY JUST DID
AT THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL I
MEAN, IF YOU CAN'T SET TEACHER
DISPUTE BY GIVING THEM ALL OF
THE MONEY THAT YOU HAVE GOT IN
THE TIL, I MEAN THAT'S AN EASY
EASY OUT.

Steve says DO YOU THINK IT DID THAT.

Janet says I DON'T KNOW.
IT WILL BE INTERESTING.
THE THERE HAS NOT BEEN
GOVERNMENT THEY CAN'T FIGHT
WITH.
AND THEY HAVE JUST GIVEN MORE
TO THE ELEMENTARY PANEL AND
REMEMBER THERE IS ELEMENTARY
AND SECONDARY AND PUBLIC AND
FRENCH.
THEY HAVE JUST GIVEN MORE TO
ELEMENTARY THEN HAS BEEN GIVEN
TO ENTIRE SYSTEM IN SOME
YEARS.
SO THE OTHER SECTORS THE OTHER
SYSTEMS OTHER SCHOOLS WILL BE
SITTING THERE SAYING OKAY
WHERE IS OUR SHARE OF THIS?
SO, YOU KNOW THEY ARE BOXING
THEMSELVES IN VERY, VERY
SERIOUSLY.

Dave says ASSUMING DUPLICATE ON TO
THE PRESENT AND CATHOLIC FOR
ELEMENTARY THERE IS ANOTHER
300 MILLION AND YOU KNOW WE
ARE TALKING.

Janet says YOU HAVE GOT HOSPITAL
DEFICITS OVER 700 MILLION.
1.37 BILLION.

Dave says FOR POST SECONDARY.

Janet says SO SORBARA IS GOONA DO THE
MIRACLE OF THE LOAVES AND FISHES.

Sean says PUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF
THAT COIN DALTON MCGUINTY
MADE IT VERY PLAIN
ELECT ME AND WE WILL PUT MORE
RESOURCES INTO PUBLIC
EDUCATION.

Janet says AND NOT RAISE YOUR TAX AND
BATTLE BUDGET IN.

Sean syas LISTEN THE CHALLENGE...
CHOICE IN LAST ELECTION
CAMPAIGN RECENT CAMPAIGN SEEMS
HAVE BEEN ON THE RIGHT YOU
VOTE FOR TAX CUTS AND
PRESUMABLY PROGRAM CUTS THAT
GO WITH THE TAX CUTS.
ON THE LEFT, OR IN THE CENTRE
YOU SUPPORT DOOR -- YOU
SUPPORT PEOPLE LIKE MCGUINTY
WHO SAID I THINK IT IS TIME
FOR SOME PEACE IN OUR PUBLIC
SCHOOLS AND WE ARE PREPARED TO
PUT ADDITIONAL RESOURCES IN.

Dave says I AGREE THAT IF THIS WORKS, IF
THIS WORKS, THE DEAL WITH THE
TEACH AND SO. INVESTMENTS THE
DEFICIT WOULDN'T MATTER.
AND THEY CAN GO INTO THE NEXT
ELECTION WITH A DEFICIT IF

Sean says THERE IS -- WHAT'S THE
DEFINITION OF WORKS.

Dave says IF PEOPLE SEE
THAT THERE PEACE M OUR SYSTEM
AND INCREASE IN QUALITY.
THEN.

Janet says THEY DIDN'T BUY ANY QUALITY WITH THIS DEAL.

Dave says WE ARE SEE WHAT HAPPENS
WITH MARKS.
I AM NOT SAYING.
WE DON’T KNOW ALL COMPONENTS OF
AGREEMENT BUT I AM SAYING THAT
THIS IS COMPONENT OF IT THAT I
AGREE WITH SEAN IF IT WORKS
IF THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE TO
PEOPLE THAT THIS INVESTMENT
HAS IMPROVED EDUCATION SYSTEM
THE OTHER STUFF IN HEALTH THAT
THE DEFICIT WILL BE OH, WELL
THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN LIVE
WITH.

Steve says BUT WHAT'S DRIVING THE SHIP
HERE?
IS THE GAP THE 23 BILLION
DOLLAR GAP REALLY DRIVING SHIP
TO GET MORE MONEY OUT OF THE
OTTAWA OR IS IT THE NEED TO BE
ABLE TO PAY FOR THESE
AGREEMENTS WHICH SOME HAVE
SUGGESTED ARE MORE GENEROUS
THAN PERHAPS THE PROVINCE CAN
ACTUALLY AFFORD?

Dave says WELL I THINK THEY HAVE TO
TRY TO KEEP THEIR FISCAL HOUSE
IN SOME KIND OF AN ORDER.

Steve says HAVE THEY?

Dave says WELL, -- THIS IS GOING TO
BE VERY FASCINATING BUDGET TO
WATCH BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW
THOUGH WILL PAY FOR ALL OF
THIS EITHER AND NOT INCREASE
THE DEFICIT.

Janet says THEY HAVE ALREADY INCREASED
IT.

Dave says I MEAN BEYOND WHAT WE HAVE
ALREADY SEEN LIKE THE FIVE OR
SIX BILLION

Sean says THESE ARE LIBERALS
AND THEY HAVE SAID ELECT US
AND WE ARE GOING TO INCREASE
INVESTMENT IN HEALTH CARL AND
EDUCATION SO I THINK IN RECENT
WEEKS AFTER SOME YOU NO.
STORMY WEATHER EARLIER IN THE
SEASON I THINK THAT DALTON
MCGUINTY GOVERNMENT CAN FEEL
RATHER BETTER ABOUT THEIR
CIRCUMSTANCES PARTICULARLY FOR
THEIR PRIMARY CONSTITUENCIES
BECAUSE THEY HAVE
GOT TO DEAL WITH THE DOCTORS
THEY APPEAR TO BE MAKING
PROGRESS WITH TEACHER
NEGOTIATION I THINK JANET
IS RIGHT I THINK DEVIL WILL
BE IN THE DETAILS.

Dave says I MEAN IF THEY GO INTO THE
NEXT ELECTION AND THEY ACTUAL
VERY TO WORK TO REELECT A
GOVERNMENT.

Janet says THAT'S REVOLUTIONARY
CONCEPT.

Steve says WITH TWO MINUTES LEFT
BEFORE WE BRING IN THE 411, I
WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT KIND
OF AFFECT YOU THINK THE GOMERY
INQUIRY HAVING ON THE LIBERAL
BRAND IN GENERAL.
WE KNOW IT IS HAVE DEVASTATING
AFFECT ON THE MARTIN LIBERAL
FEDERALLY.
SEAN DO YOU THINK IT IS HAVING
A NEGATIVE AFFECT ON LIBERALS
THEREFORE MCGUINTY IS WEARING SOME OF
THIS AS WELL?

Sean says WELL, MY SENSE IS THAT IF
WILL BE -- IT IS PARTICULARLY
DAMAGING TO THE FEDERAL BRAND
OF THE LIBERAL PARTY.
AT THIS POINT.
WE HAVE TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS
OUT OVER NEXT LITTLE WHILE.
MY WORRY QUITE FRANKLY IS THAT
JUST ON THE BASIS OF MY SORT
OF UNSCIENTIFIC ANECDOTAL
EVIDENCE IS IT REALLY HURTING
THE POLITICAL CLASS.
I THINK PEOPLE THE ONES I AM
HEARING FROM IS OH, IT IS JUST
A YOU KNOW.

Dave says POLITICS IN GENERAL.

Steve says DAVE COOK HOW ABOUT YOU ON
THAT?

Dave says SOME OF THE POLL NUMBERS
THAT I THINK I SAW TODAY THE
CBC STUFF OR YESTERDAY, THAT
BASICALLY PROVES THAT.
THAT PEOPLE YOU KNOW THEY ARE
NOT MEET WITH THE LIBERAL
BRAND.
BUT, ALL POLITICAL PARTIES ARE
THE SAME IN.

Steve says POCKS ON ALL OF YOUR
HOUSES?

Dave says YES.

Janet says I AGREE WITH THAT.
BECAUSE IT JUST CAUSES PEOPLE
TO THINK THAT ALL POLITICIANS
ARE CROOKS.
I MEAN THEY ARE NOT BUT PEOPLE
THINK THAT AND IT IS JUSTIFIES
IT.
BUT OTHER INTERESTING THING
WILL BE I THINK THE VOTERS
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY
WITH THE CHOICES.
BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT YET
DECIDED THAT THEY ARE GOING TO
REWARD HARPER WITH THE PRIME
MINISTER CHAIR.
THEY ARE LOOKING AT PAUL
MARTIN SEEING HIM AS LACKING
VERY SERIOUSLY.
AND THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT
GOING TO WANT TO PUT LAYTON IN
THERE ESPECIALLY IN ONTARIO.
AND NOT TRYING THAT SO WILL
YOU HAVE A REALLY CRANKY
ELECTORATE.
THEY DON'T LIKE THAT.
AND THEY EITHER DO SOMETHING
TOTALLY UNPREDICTABLE.
OR THEY STAY HOME.
AND SO THINK THE WHOLE PROCESS
WE HAVE GOT A LOT TO -- YOU
KNOW REALLY INTERESTING RACE
IF THERE IS AN ELECTION.

Sean says IT WILL BE INTERESTING
FEDERALLY TO LOOK AT HOW MANY
RETIREMENTS WE GET.
IT ALSO BE RECRUITMENT THERE
IS.
BECAUSE I THINK JANUARY SET
AGREE THAT IT WILL BE CHOPPY
WATER AND I WOULD SAY TO
ANYBODY IN POLITICS, TODAY,
AND NEXT WHILE, BE CAREFUL.
AND DON'T BE DOUBLE DEALING.

Steve says BE CAREFUL IS ALWAYS GOOD
ADVICE IN PUBLIC LIFE.
THANK YOU FOR THIS WE HAVE GOT
MORE AHEAD MORE ANALYSIS ON THE FINANCIAL
PRESSURES FACING THE MCGUINTY
GOVERNMENT THIS TIME FROM
BEHIND THE SCENES.
HERE ARE CBC ROBERT FISHER
AND SUSANNA KELLEY WITH BACK
ROOM 411.

(music plays)

A clip captioned "Backroom 411" shows very fast clips of Ernie Eaves and other politicians giving speeches and press conferences. Then, Susanna Kelley and Robert Fisher walk down a long hallway and past a glass-paned door.

The clip ends, and Susanna and Robert sit in the studio with Steve.

Steve says ROBERT AND SUSANNA, WELCOME
BACK LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS
SITUATION BETWEEN HARPER AND
DALTON MCGUINTY.
GO BEHIND THE SCENES AND TELL
US HOW THIS CAME ABOUT.

A caption reads "Susanna Kelley. Queen’s Park Bureau Chief."

Susanna is in her forties, with short straight blond hair.
She’s wearing a pink fitted jacket, a black top and a pair of pendant earrings.

She says WELL THERE IS AN
INTERESTING PD BEHIND THE
SCENES STORY.
I THINK IT WAS THE BRAIN CHILD
OF ONTARIO MPP JOHN BAIRD.

Steve says FROM THE CONSERVATIVE?

Susanna says AND I THINK IT HE ABOUT TO
GO AND RUN FEDERALLY FOR THE
FEDERAL CONSERVATIVES.
SO, AS IN THE POLITICS MAKES
STRANGE BED FELLOWS, SCENES I
THINK WHAT HAPPENED WAS HE
THOUGHT WELL, YOU KNOW WE NEED
TO GET SOME MONEY FOR ONTARIO
THAT'S GOOD FOR ONTARIO PHONES
UP HARPER THEY TALK AND I
SUSPECT THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW
THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE
FEDERAL CONSERVATIVES IN
ONTARIO.
AND SAID YOU KNOW YOU SHOULD
GIVE MCGUINTY CALL BAIRD THEN
TALKED TO SORBARA AND HARPER
TALKED TO MCGUINTY.
AND I THINK THEY FIGURED OUT
THAT PUTTING PRESSURE ON PAUL
MARTIN YOU KNOW THE ENEMY OF
MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND.
AND THE REST AS THEY SAY IS
POLITICAL HISTORY.

The caption changes to "Robert Fisher. Provincial Affairs Specialist."

Robert is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair.
He’s wearing a blue suit, white striped shirt, and a patterned tie.

Robert says IT IS AMAZING STEVE HOW
PHONE CALL IN THE MORNING
FOCUSES THE MINDED IN
AFTERNOON.
BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK BACK ON
THAT, AFTER IT BECAME PUBLIC
THAT THERE HAD BEEN THIS
PROBLEM CERTAINLY PAUL MARTIN
WAS SUGGESTING WELL, YES I
WOULD LOVE TO MEET WITH
MISTER MCGUINTY WE HAVE NOT GOT A
DATE BUT WE WOULD LOVE TO
MEET.
THING IS THAT MCGUINTY WANTS A
CHECK ON THE TABLE.
AND I THINK THAT YOU’LL
PROBABLY SEE THOSE CHECKS THE
MORE THE POLLS DROP FEDERALLY
IN ONTARIO FOR THE LIBERALS
THE MORE CHANCES THOSE
TRUCKS WILL START
HEADING DOWN THE 401.

Steve says FUNNY HOW MISTER MARTIN LOTS OF TIME WITH
MEET CONSERVATIVE PREMIER OF
NEWFOUNDLAND ON CERTAIN
NEGOTIATION AND HAS NOT UNTIL
KNOWN --.

Robert says YOU KNOW IT IS REALLY DO
HAVE TO BE RESOLVED BECAUSE
THERE NOTHING TO BE GAINED BY
FEDERAL LIBERALS CONTINUING
THIS WITH MCGUINTY AND MARTIN
HAD HAS GOT TO BE RESOLVED AND IT
HAS GOT TO INVOLVE SOME CASH
OTHERWISE THEY WILL PAY A
PRICE IF AND WHEN THE NEXT
ELECTION IS CAN CALLED AND
THEY KNOW THAT AND MCGUINTY
LIBERALS KNOW THAT IS WELL.

Steve says EDUCATION STATION SO LET'S
TALK SOME EDUCATION.
LOT OF PEOPLE POINTING OUT HOW
DEEPLY INVOLVED KENNEDY THE
MINISTER OF EDUCATION WAS IN
THE NEGOTIATIONS WHICH SAW AN
AGREEMENT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE
DIDN'T SEE COMING.
WITH THE ELEMENTARY TEACHERS.
WHY THE DEEP INVOLVEMENT
FROM THE MINISTER HIMSELF
ON THIS?

Susanna says WELL HE WAS MORE DEEPLY
INVOLVED THAN HAS BEEN
PUBLICLY KNOWN SO FAR.
HE WAS ACTUALLY SITTING AT THE
TABLE.
WITH THE ELEMENTARY.

Steve says THAT'S UNUSUAL ISN'T IT?

Susanna says YES.
AND WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOL
BOARDS ASSOCIATION.
THROW WERE BASICALLY THREE
PARTIES THERE.
IT IS UNPRECEDENTED FOR A
MINISTER TO DO THAT.
AND WHEN I ASKED WELL, WHY
WOULD MISTER KENNEDY BE RIGHT AT
THE TABLE LIKE THAT, AND I WAS
TOLD WELL, HE HAS SAID MY
REPUTATION IS RIDING ON THIS.
AND I HAVE A DEEP COMMITMENT
SO I THINK YOU HAVE A PRETTY
GOOD INDICATION YES WAS
SITTING AT THAT TABLE.

Robert says THIS STEVE I THINK ONE OF
THOSE BUILDERS, WHEN YOU WANT
TO BE PREMIER AT SOME POINT IN
THE FUTURE, WHEN YOU MOVE FROM
GLASSES TO CONTACT LENSES, AND
BETTER SUITS AND TIES, WHEN
YOU START TO TAKE AN ACTIVE
ROLE IN TEACHER'S NEGOTIATION
LIKE THAT AND WANT TO HAVE
SOME THING TO BRAG ABOUT
SHOULD THERE BE AT SOME
OPPORTUNITY IN THE FUTURE AN
OPENING WHERE COULD YOU RUN
THAT'S SOMETHING HE WOULD WANT
TO BRAG ABOUT.
IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT FOR THE
GOVERNMENT AS A WHOLE TO KNOW
THEY HAVE LABOUR PEACE VERY
GOT ELEMENTARY TEACHERS AND
SECONDARY STILL TO BE DONE.
BUT IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD ON
THE LIBERALS THEY OUGHT TO GET
CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS ONE
BECAUSE THEY HAVE PUT AN ISSUE
THAT WAS NOT FRONT BURNER VERY
MUCH TO BACK BURNER UNTIL WELL
AFTER NEXT ELECTION.

Steve says LEADERSHIP ANGLE BECAUSE
PEOPLE WILL FORGET THAT IT WAS
IN I THINK 1996 THAT DALTON
MCGUINTY ON THE FIFTH BALLOT
AT 40 O 30 MORNING DEFEATED
KENNEDY.

Susanna says AND WHICH WAS SURPRISE PEOPLE
THOUGHT KENNEDY WOULD WIN THAT

Robert says AND YOU KNOW WHAT TO TELL
YOU THE TRUTH I STILL HEAR LIBERALS
SAYING THINGS WOULD BE MUCH
DIFFERENT IF KENNEDY WERE
PREMIER TODAY AND THAT'S YEARS
AFTER THIS CONVENTION.

Susanna says THIS IS CONSIDERED AN
UNPRECEDENTED AGREEMENT BY
PEOPLE TOO IN EDUCATION
COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT SEEN AS
THE FIRST FORAY INTO PROVINCE
WIDE BARGAINING.
WITH TEACHERS.
THE UNION CAN DENY IT.
BUT THERE WERE ONLY THREE
PARTIES AT THE TABLE ALL
UMBRELLA ORGANIZATIONS
PROVINCE WIDE OBJECTIONS
PEOPLE WONDER AFTER SALARIES
HAVE BEEN SET AT 9.5 percent OVER
FOUR YEARS 200 MINUTES OF PREP
TIME.
1300 NEW TEACHERS.
WHAT IS LEFT FOR THE ACTUAL
SCHOOL BOARDS LOCALLY TO
BARGAIN?
I ASK THAT QUESTION.

Steve says NOT VERY MUCH ANYMORE.

Susanna says I WAS TOLD WELL YOU KNOW
TEACHERS SUPERVISION OF I
GUESS LUNCH ROOMS AND YOU KNOW
STAFFING IN INDIVIDUAL
SCHOOLS.
WELL THAT'S NOT A LOT.

Robert says BIGGER QUESTION TOO IS HOW
MUCH MONEY WILL BE LEFT IN THE
COVERS THE GOVERNMENT HAS
WRESTLED TO CONTROLLING THEY
HAVE GIVEN MORE MONEY TO
HOSPITALS.
WE HAVE CIVIL SERVICE IN THIS
PROVINCE THAT RICH FOR NEW
CONTRACT.
AND PERHAPS LEA AND ANOTHER
STRIKE SO GREG SORBARA BETTER
KEEP THAT MAN CHAIN RUNNING
OFF THE BILLS BALLS THEY HAVE
GOT TO GET THAT MONEY SENT AND
THEY HAVE TO GET CIVIL SERVICE
WITH A NEW CONTRACT.

Steve says SPEAKING OF GREG SORBARA,
HEARING ANYTHING ABOUT CABINET
SHUFFLE?
NOT BEFORE THE BUDGET WHICH IS
COMING SOON.

Susanna says NO.
WELL, I AM HEARING THE SAME AS
EVERYBODY ELSE THAT THERE MAY
WELL BE ONE IN JUNE.
BEFORE THEY BREAK FOR THE
SUMMER.
BUT AND I AM HEARING THAT A
NUMBER OF MINISTERS ARE IN
TROUBLE.
I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF --.

Steve says WANT TO NAME NAMES.

Susanna says YES.
THERE IS A LOT OF GRUMBLING
AND ANGER ACTUALLY OUT THERE
IN THE LIBERAL PARTY.
TO TOWARDS MISTER SORBARA.
BOTH IN THE CABINET AND IN THE
CAUCUS.
I THINK THEY -- THEY BELIEVE
THAT HIS FIRST BUDGET WAS VERY
DIFFICULT FOR THEM BROKE THE
PROMISES ON NOT RAISING
TAXES HE HAD THE ROYAL
TECHNOLOGY ISSUE WHERE THERE
WAS A POSSIBLE CONFLICT OF
INTEREST.
THERE WAS THE DEVELOPER’S DINNER
WHERE DEVELOPERS PAID 10,000 DOLLARS A
PERSON TO HAVE DINNER WITH
MISTER MCGUINTY.
MISTER SORBARA.
WHITE GREEN BELT WAS BEING
DEVELOPED AND THERE WAS A LOTS
OF CABINET MINISTER IN CAUCUS.
VERY ANGRY ABOUT THAT.
THEY DIDN'T SEE THE NEED FOR
THAT.
SO, PEOPLE THINK HE HAS GOT A
CHANCE -- HE BETTER COME UP
WITH A WINNER BUDGET AND HIT
IT OUT OF THE PARK SO.

Robert says ALL OF THAT SAID AND AGREE
THAT TIMING OF NEXT SHUFFLE
AND IT IS GOING TO BE FAIRLY
SUBSTANTIAL I THINK SOME NEW
BLOOD IS GOING TO BE BROUGHT
INTO CABINET.
PEOPLE LIKE SMITH FOR EXAMPLE
FROM NORTHERN ONTARIO YOU KNOW
HAS TO BE BROUGHT IN AND WILL
BE.
PEOPLE WOULD BE MOVED AROUND.
BUT RIGHT NOW, -MY SENSE IN
TALK LIBERALS JUST THIS WEEK
THERE IS A NEW BUOYANCY IT IS
NOT ARROGANCE IT IS NEW
BUOYANCY THAT THEY THINK THINGS
ARE GETTING BETTER OUT THERE.

Steve says WELL THEY HAVE GOT NEW POLL
NUMBER AND YOU KNOW WHAT THIS
THIS?

Robert says THEY KEEP SAYING NOW AND IT IS
LINE YOU KEEP HEARING ROBERT
THERE ARE TWO YEARS BEFORE THE
NEXT ELECTION.
WE HAVE GOT PLENTY OF TIME.

Steve says TWO AND HALF.

Susanna says I THINK ONE MEAN MIGHT GO
IN IS KATHLEEN WYNN THEY WANT
TO INCREASE HER PROFILE.
BECAUSE THEY THINK SHE IS
GOING TO BE UP AGAINST JOHN
TORY NEXT TIME.
COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE IN
TROUBLE, THOUGH STEVE PETERS,
AND MARY ANN CHAMBERS AND
NEIGHBOUR DOMBRAWSKI.

Steve says HOW MANY FORMER TORIES WHO
IN LAST ONTARIO ELECTION WHO
LOST, ARE LOOK TO RUN
FEDERALLY IN NEXT FEDERAL
ELECTION WHENEVER THAT IS
QUESTION.

Susanna says WELL I AM HEARING TONY
CLEMENT.
MAY BE BACK IN IT AGAIN.
MAYBE UP IN MUSKOKA.
JOHN CAPOBIANCO, OUT.
I THINK HE WILL BE RUN FOR
SURE.
CERTAINLY GOING FOR THE
NOMINATION.
I UNDERSTAND THAT JANET ECKER
HAS DECIDED NOT TO RUN.
STEVE PARISH MAYOR OF AJACKS
HAS DECIDED NOT TO GO
FEDERALLY EVEN THOUGH HE WAS
APPROACHED HE WANTS TO STICK
AROUND AS MAYOR.
I THINK HE IS RED TORY A
LITTLE BIT.
NERVOUS ABOUT THAT SAME SEX
STUFF.
HE DOES WATT NOT WANT TO BE
INVOLVED THIS THAT KIND AFTER
DEBATE.

Steve says THAT'S OUR TIME.
ROBERT SUSANNA THANK YOU FOR
THE 411 FROM THE BACK ROOMS
SEE YOU IN A FEW WEEKS.
AND THAT'S "FOURTH READING."
FOR THIS WEEK I AM STEVE
PAIKIN UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY,
THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Editor, Rein Suurallik.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2005, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

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