Transcript: Doctors Get a Deal | Apr 03, 2005

The opening sequence rolls.

Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON "FOURTH
READING," A VERY SPECIAL DEAL.
ONTARIO'S DOCTORS GET UNIQUE
TAX CREDIT AS THEY RATIFY
THEIR NEW AGREEMENT WITH THE
PROVINCE.

A fast clip shows images of an operating theatre.

Steve sits in the studio 3 guests.

Steve is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit and a sand beige polo T-shirt.

Steve says HI I AM STEVE PAIKIN
YOU ARE WATCHING "FOURTH
READING" FOR THIS WEEK.
WELL IT TOOK TWO TRIES BUT THE
PROVINCE DOCTORS HAVE FINALLY
AGREED TO A NEW CONTRACT.
SOME CRITIC ARE ACCUSING THE
LIBERAL GOVERNMENT OF
WRESTLING DOCTORS TO THE
CEILING.
GIVEN 2.4 BILLION DOLLAR PAY
INCREASE.
BUT THE MINISTER OF HEALTH
SAYS THE MONEY WILL BE BUY
FUNDAMENTAL IMPROVEMENT IN OUR
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
GEORGE SMITHERMAN PROMISED, QUOTE,
TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE
IN HEALTH CARE.
AND SAYS THIS DEAL DELIVERS
IT.

A clip shows George speaking at session in the legislature.

A caption reads "George Smitherman. Ontario Health Minister."

George is in his early fifties, clean-shaven and balding. He wears black trousers, a beige jacket, a blue shirt and brown tie.

He says THE AGREEMENT WE HAVE
REACHED SUPPORTED BY 74 percent OF
ONTARIO'S DOCTORS PAVES THE
WAY FOR ENHANCED CARE FOR THE
PEOPLE OF THE PROVINCE.

Steve says THIS IS SECOND STAB IN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
GOVERNMENT AND THE DOCTORS.
THE ORIGINAL DEAL FAILED LAST
NOVEMBER.
THIS CONTRACT IS WORTH:

A caption reads "OMA Contract. Contract worth 2.4 billion dollars. 120 million dollars in salary increases over original deal. Average pay hike of 20 to 25 percent over 4 years."

Steve says BUT BEING OF THE
INCREASES ARE IN THE FORM OF
INCENTIVES FOR FAMILY DOCTORS.
WHO ENTER GROUP PRACTICE.
THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THIS WILL
SAVE MONEY OVER THE LONG-TERM.
ALSO, PART OF CONTRACT IS:

Another caption reads "Tax break side deal. Tax breaks to doctors who form professional corporations. Family members can become shareholders in medical practice. Dividends of up to 30,000 dollars a year."

Steve says BECAUSE OF THIS, CRITIC SAY
THE DEAL WILL BE MUCH MORE
COSTLY THAN THE LIBERALS ARE
LETTING ON.

The caption changes to "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader."

Howard is in his early fifties, clean-shaven and with short straight graying hair. He wears a black suit, light gray shirt and purple tie.

He says THERE IS DIRECT COST OF THE
DEAL 2.4 BILLION.
THEN, IS THERE THE TAX CUTS,
THAT AREN'T PART OF DEAL BUT
ARE GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE
SIDE.
THOSE TAX CUTS ARE GOING TO BE
WORTH TENS OF MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS TO PHYSICIAN
PRACTICES.

Steve says CRITIC ALSO ACCUSE THE
LIBERALS OF GIVING INTO THE
DOCTORS.
THEY POINT OUT THAT DOCTORS
AVERAGE INCREASE OF ABOUT 6 percent A
YEAR IS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE
THAN THE 2 percent DALTON MCGUINTY
HIMSELF ASKED THE PUBLIC
SECTOR TO SETTLE FOR.

The caption changes to "John Baird. PC Health Critic."

John is in his early forties, clean-shaven and with short curly brown hair. He wears a midnight blue suit with fine stripes, a white shirt and a blue tie.

He says THEY CAVED IN AND NOW
NURSES, TEACHERS, PUBLIC
SERVANTS, QP WORKERS ARE GOING
TO DEMAND THE SAME DEAL AND
THEY WILL HARDLY HAVE ANY
CREDIBILITY TO KEEP A STRAIGHT
FACE.
WHEN THEY SAY THEY HAVE NO
MORE MONEY BECAUSE THEY HAVE
GIVEN THE MESSAGE IF YOU PUSH
HARD AND YOU GO AFTER THE
GOVERNMENT WE WILL CAVE IN.
HE TOOK A BRINKS TRUCK UP TO
THE HEAD OFFICE OF THE OM AND
SAID TO THE DOCTORS TAKE AS
MUCH AS YOU WANT.

Steve says WELL JUST AFTER THE
DOCTORS RATIFIED THE NEW
CONTRACT I SAT DOWN WITH
HEALTH MINISTER GEORGE
SMITHERMAN AT QUEEN'S PARK TO
TALK ABOUT THE NEW DEAL.

A clip rolls. Steve sits with George Smitherman in an office.

Steve says LET ME GET YOUR
REACTION TO THE 74 percent APPROVAL
RATING.

George says IT IS VERY GRATIFYING.
IT REFLECTS, STRONG SUPPORT
FROM ALL DISCIPLINES OF
DOCTORS ALL REGIONS OF OUR
PROVINCE FROM BOTH WOMEN AND
MEN ALIKE.
NEWER DOCTORS THOSE STILL IN
SCHOOL.
ALL ACROSS THE BREADTH OF THE
MEDICAL COMMUNITY.

Steve says HOW MUCH WILL THIS
AGREEMENT COST TAX PAYERS ALL
IN THROUGH THE LIFE OF THE
AGREEMENT?

George says WELL THE AGREEMENT WILL
COST ABOUT A BILLION DOLLAR IN
PHYSICAL 07 AND 808.
AND TO ABOUT 2.4 BILLION
DOLLARS.

Steve says OVER THE LIFE OF
THIS AGREEMENT, THE AVERAGE
ANNUAL INCREASE IS ABOUT 6 percent.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SETS A
DANGEROUS PRECEDENT FOR OTHER
PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET PAID BY
THE PUBLIC PURSE?

George says WELL I THINK NOR TO THE
POINT IS VERY SIMPLISTIC WAY
TO CHARACTERIZE IT BECAUSE
THIS IS NOT AN AGREEMENT THAT
OFFER TO CROSS THE BOARD
INCREASE.
IT WAS AN AGREEMENT WITH
SPECIFIC TARGETING IN MIND.
TO ADDRESS THE KEY PRIORITY
THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS.
WE INHERITED CIRCUMSTANCE
AND PROVINCE OF ONTARIO WHERE
FAMILY PRACTICE WAS I WOULD
SAY AT RISK OF RUNNING OUT OF
DOCTORS.
THIS IS AN AGREEMENT THAT
GOES OUT OF THE ITS WAY TO
SEND STRONG MESSAGE THAT
FAMILY PRACTICE IS WHERE IS IT
AT.
SIMILARLY THIS HAS LARGER
TARGETED INCREASE TOWARDS SOME
OF THOSE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN
THE SPECIALTIES BY TAKING OFF
THE BILLING CAPS THAT MEANT
THAT DOCTORS OFFICES WERE
CLOSING THURSDAY AT NOON.
THERE ARE BIGGER GAINS
AVAILABLE FOR SOME.
SO I THINK IT IS VERY, VERY
IMPORTANT IN A DEAL THIS
COMPLEX THAT IT NOT BE
CHARACTERIZED AS ACROSS THE
BOARD BECAUSE IT WAS NOT
NEGOTIATED AS ACROSS THE BOARD
INCREASES.
IT WAS NEGOTIATED WITH A VIEW
TOWARDS MAKING ENHANCEMENTS IN
THE AREAS THAT THAT WE WERE
TOLD NEEDED EQUIPMENT
IMPROVEMENT.

Steve says FAIR ENOUGH BUT DO YOU
THINK THE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS
WILL INTERPRET IT THAT WAY?

George says WELL THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY
HAVE TO DO TO INTERPRET THINGS
THE REALITY IN THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO IS VERY, VERY CLEAR
THAT IS THAT THE PATIENTS IN
ONTARIO NEED DOCTORS.
AND ONTARIO NEEDS TO BE
COMPETITIVE JURISDICTION TO BE
ABLE TO TRAIN THEM.
TO RETAIN THEM, AND TO ATTRACT
THEM.
AND SO WE SENT STRONG
NECESSARY SAGE ON BEHALF THE
PEOPLE OF ONTARIO THAT WE
VALUE OUR DOCTORS AND WE NEED
ALL OF YOU THAT ARE HERE AND
WE NEED MORE OF YOU TO COME
AND THAT'S MESSAGE THAT WE
SEEK TO SEND WITH THIS AGREEMENT.

Steve says YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING
QUITE DIFFERENT HERE.
QUITE INTERESTING.
YOU ARE ALLOWING DOCTORS
SPOUSES AND FAMILY MEMBERS TO
EARN DIVIDENDS BY BECOMING
SHAREHOLDERS IN THE DOCTOR'S
CORPORATION.
I GATHER IN IT IS GOING TO
COST 125 MILLION IN LOST
REVENUE FOR THE GOVERNMENT BY
DOING SO.
WHY DID YOU DO THIS?

George says WELL THIS, IS SOMETHING TO
BE HONEST WITH YOU STEVE I AM
VERY PROUD OF.
BECAUSE WE FULFILLED
COMMITMENT THAT CONSERVATIVES
MADE THE NEGOTIATION OF THE
LAST AGREEMENT AND FAILED TO
FULFILL.
THAT'S ONE OF TWO THINGS THAT
WE HAD AS STARTING POINT.
IRRITANTS IN A CERTAIN SENSE WERE
PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT HAD DONE A
DEAL WITH DOCTORS AND MADE
AGREEMENT ON THIS POINTED AND
ON THE POINT OF GIVING THEM
RESOURCES FOR ADAPT ADDITION
OF THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
I AM PLEASED WE HAVE BEEN ABLE
DO THIS BECAUSE IT IS ONE MORE
ELEMENT OF THE COMPETITIVE
PIECE.
OTHER -- SOME OTHERS THAT WERE
IN COMPETITION WITH FOR SCARCE
PHYSICIAN RESOURCES AS AN
EXAMPLE HAVE MOVED FORWARD IN
THIS DIRECTION AND I THINK
THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE SIGNAL
TO ONTARIO'S DOCTORS THAT WE
WANT TO RETRAIN -- RETAIN
THEM.

Steve says AGAIN, THOUGH ARE
YOU NOT CONCERNED ABOUT
SETTING PRECEDENT?

George says YOU KNOW STEVE, FOR FROM
ALL OF YOUR TIME AROUND
GOVERNMENT EVERYTHING CAN BE
DEEMED TO BE A PRECEDENT OR
WHAT HAVE YOU AND EACH
SITUATION IS NEGOTIATED AND
DEBATED ON ITS MERITS.
SO I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT PEOPLE
WILL LOOK INSIDE OF THIS
AGREEMENT FOR THOUGH KIND OF
PRECEDENTS I THINK THAT OTHER
THING THEY WILL LOOK FOR IS
THIS IS GOVERNMENT THAT'S
WILLING TO PAY MORE IF YOU DO
THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
AND THERE ARE STRONG MESSAGES
SENT IN TERMS REFORMS THAT ARE
POSSIBLE AS A RESULT OF THE
AGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE
NEGOTIATED WITH ONTARIO'S
DOCTORS.

Steve says YOU HAVE TALKED
THROUGHOUT THIS PIECE ABOUT
BUYING TRANSFORMATIONAL
CHANGE.
CAN YOU TELL THE AVERAGE
ONTARIO, THE AVERAGE PATIENT
WHO WANTS TO ACCESS THE SYSTEM
HOW THIS AGREEMENT IS GOING TO
HELP BUY TRANSFORMATIONAL
CHANGE?
I THINK SIGNIFICANTLY IN TWO
OR THREE DIFFERENT WAYS
FIRSTLY THERE IS LOT OF
INCENTIVE FOR DOCTORS WORK
WITH PATIENTS.
TO KEEP THEM WELL IN THE FIRST
PLACE RATHER THAN TREAT THEM
WHEN THEY ARE SICK.
REALLY ARE GOVERNMENT THAT'S
TRYING FOCUS MORE ON
PREVENTION.
THIS IS ABOUT AN AGREEMENT
THAT REESTABLISHES THAT
COMMITMENT.
TO FAMILY PRACTICE WHICH SO
ESSENTIAL IN MEAN OF THE
COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN
WITHOUT SUFFICIENT RECEIVE
DOCTORS FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
AND IT ADDRESSES THOSE KEY
WAIT TIME PRIORITY WHICH WILL
BE TRANSFORMATIONAL FOR ON TO
TAR JOE BECAUSE THOSE WILL BE
SOURCES OF PRIDE AGAIN.
IN DEMONSTRATING THAT WHEN WE
GET OUR ACT TOGETHER COMMIT
RESOURCES TO IT, ALL PLAYERS
WORKING TOGETHER, THAT WE CAN
MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND IMPROVE
ACCESS AND IN KEY AREAS.

Steve says THANK YOU.

Back in the studio, Steve says OKAY.
LET'S CHECK OUT MERITS OF THIS
DEAL AND THE POLITICS BEHIND
IT WITH OUR QUEEN'S PARK
ANALYST HERE.
SEAN CONWAY.
JANET ECKER FORMER PROGRESS
AND DAVE COOK.
JANET I WANT TO START WITH
YOU.
YOU KNOW DOCTORS WELL.
HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THE 74 percent
RATIFICATION VOTE?

The caption changes to "Janet Ecker. Former PC Cabinet Minister."

Janet is in her late forties, with short straight blond hair. She wears glasses, a cream, a blue blazer and a yellow pin.

She says WELL I THINK THAT
PHYSICIANS RECOGNIZE THAT THIS
WAS GOING TO BE AS GOOD AS IT
WAS GOING TO GET THAT THEY HAD
PUSHED BACK AND HARD.
AND THIS WAS ALL GOVERNMENT
WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO FOR
THEM AND THEY WANTED TO MOVE
FORWARD I THINK THE GOVERNMENT
HAS YOU KNOW -- WE DON'T KNOW
IF WILL WORK OR NOT BUT IT IS
WORTHY ATTEMPT TO BUY
FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE.
THEY HAVE SET AN INTERESTING
PRECEDENT FOR OTHER PUBLIC
SECTOR UNIONS THEY ARE GOING
TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH BUT FROM
MINISTER PERSPECTIVE HE WANTS
TO GO BACK TO SOME OF THOSE
OTHER UNIONS SAY IS HERE ALL
OF THE THINGS I GOT FOR IT.
YOU KNOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO
GIVE ME?
SO HE HAS GOT A BIT OF A LEG
TO STAND ON.
I THINK IT WAS GOOD THEY WENT
BACK TO THE TABLE WITH THE
DOCTORS I THINK WE HAVE GOT A
DEAL THAT MIGHT WELL ACTUALLY
PRODUCE SOME POSITIVE CHANGE
AND WE COUNSEL HOPE THAT IT
WILL BECAUSE WE NEED IT IN
HEALTH CARE.

Steve says 74 percent IS PRETTY HIGH
RATIFICATION VOTE.
SOME HAVE INFERRED FROM THAT
NUMBER THAT THE DOCTORS JUST
GOT FIRED OF FIGHTING WITH THE
GOVERNMENT AND THEY SAID
UNCLE.
WITH YOU GO THERE?

The caption changes to "Dave Cooke. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Dave is in his early late forties, clean-shaven and with short receding brown hair. He wears a gray suit, white shirt and patterned gray and white tie.

He says WELL I MEAN I THINK...
THERE MIGHT BE PART OF THAT.
BUT I THINK ALSO, ANY DOCTOR
AND CERTAINLY THE LEADERSHIP
OF THE OMA WOULD LOOK AT THIS
AND SAY WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO
FIGHT.
WE REJECTED THE FIRST
CONTRACT.
AND WE DID GET THE GOVERNMENT
TO GO BACK TO THE BARGAINING
TABLE WE DID MAKE SOME
MORE GAINS.

Steve says 120 MORE MILLION.

Dave says THINK IT IS A FAIR POINT
THAT HAMPTON HAS MADE AND
THAT'S YOU GOT TO AT SOME
POINT QUANT FIGHT COST OF THIS
TAX PROVISION AS WELL.
BUT, YES.
I THINK IT WAS JUST LOGICAL.
AND IF THEY HAD TURNED IT DOWN,
I REALLY DON'T THINK THERE
WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH PUBLIC
SYMPATHIES FOR THE DOCTORS AND
THEIR POSITION.

Steve says ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT'S GETTING A LOT OF
ATTENTION IS THIS NEW TAX
BREAK THAT TOOK COURSE AND
FAMILY MEMBERS WILL GET AND
SOME ARE ASKING THE QUESTION
WHY DOCTORS SHOULD BE ENTITLED
TO GET THIS TAX ADVANTAGE,
WHICH I THINK MISTER HAMPTON WILL
COST PROBABLY TENS OF MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS.
WHEN OTHERS ARE NOT PERMITTED
TO GET IT WHEN THEY
COLLECTIVELY MAKE AGREEMENTS
WITH THE PROVINCE?

The caption changes to "Sean Conway. Former Liberal Cabinet Minister."

Sean is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short straight light brown hair. He wears glasses, a black suit, lilac shirt and striped burgundy tie.

He says WELL, I THINK PART OF
EXPLANATION IS THAT AS WE HAVE
TALKED ABOUT AROUND THIS TABLE,
FOR MONTHS AND QUITE FRANKLY
AS YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT FOR
YEARS IS THERE A GROWING
CRISIS IN TERMS OF ATTRACTING
AND RETAINING FAMILY
PRACTITIONERS TO MORE AND MORE
OF ONTARIO AND CANADA AND
TOGETHER SAME WITH SPECIALIST.
I THINK OF MY COLLEAGUE MY
FORMER COLLEAGUE JIM BRADLEY
AND PEAT PEOPLE LIKE KORMOS.
TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN
NIAGARA THERE IS A VERY REAL
PROBLEM FACING MUCH OF CANADA
AND CERTAINLY MUCH OF ONTARIO
IN GETTING AND KEEPING NOT
ONLY FAMILY PRACTITIONERS BUT
A NUMBER OF SPECIALIST.

Steve says YOU BELIEVE THIS
DEAL WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

Sean says I THINK THE GOVERNMENT HAS
A BIG WIN HERE.
AS TO HOW IT WORKS ONLY TIME
WILL TELL.
BUT, ROY TOLD THE GOVERNMENT
OF CANADA FEW YEARS AGO THAT
YOU SHOULD ONLY BE PUTTING NEW
MONEY IN THIS SYSTEM TO BUY
CHANGE.
AND ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
CHANGES HE SAID WAS GETTING
THE FAMILY PRACTITIONERS INTO
GROUP PRACTICES.
DOING MORE TO ATTRACT YOUNGER
PEOPLE INTO THOSE
UNDERSERVICED AREAS.
PROVIDING SOME RELIEF FOR
SPECIALIST AND I THINK OVERALL
FROM WHAT CAN I TELL AND I AM
NO EXPERT I THINK THAT THE
GOVERNMENT HAS MANAGED
SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THAT
AGENDA HERE.

Steve says IF YOU ARE WATCHING
AND YOU DON'T HAVE A FAMILY
DOCTOR DO YOU HAVE -- AND
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
DO NOT, DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE
ANY MORE REASON TODAY TO BE
CONFIDENT THAT YOU WILL BE
ABLE TO GET A FAMILY DOCTOR
BECAUSE OF THIS AGREEMENT?

Janet says WELL, -- LET'S FLIP IT
AROUND.
WITHOUT AN AGREEMENT OF THIS
KIND, COULD YOU GUARANTEE THAT
THE SITUATION WOULD ONLY GET
WORSE.
AND WORSE QUITE QUICKLY SO I
THINK WHAT YOU HAVE GOT...
THEY TRIED TO PROVIDE
INCENTIVES INSTEAD OF STICKS.
I THINK THE MEDICAL PROFESSION
NOW THERE IS AN OBLIGATION FOR DOCTORS
GAZING FOR DOCTORS TO WORK
WITH THE GOVERNMENT TO TRY AND
MAKE SOME OF THESE CHANGES
HAPPEN.
I MUST SAY ONE OF THE BIG
FUNDAMENTAL THINGS THEY DID
GET IN THIS, THE GOVERNMENT
GOT WAS THE OMA TO AGREE THAT
NOT EVERY DOCTOR WOULD GET THE
SAME PERCENTAGE INCREASE.
AND THAT HAS BEEN A BIG THING
THAT PREVIOUS GOVERNMENTS WERE
NOT ABLE TO DO.
THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO
THAT.
AND I THINK IT IS SADLY NEEDED
BECAUSE IF YOU -- YOU KNOW
THERE ARE CERTAIN PROFESSIONS
OR CERTAIN SPECIALTIES YOU
NEED MORE OF.
OTHERS THAT YOU DON'T.
AND I THINK THE GOVERNMENT
NEEDS THE FLEXIBILITY TO
REWARD AND TRY AND FIX THOSE
PROBLEMS.

Dave says I THINK THE GOVERNMENT WILL
HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOME KIND
OF A BETTER COMMUNICATIONS
BROADER COMMUNICATIONS BECAUSE,
IF THERE IS AN EXPECTATIONS
THAT THE PROBLEMS OF SHORTAGE
OF GPS IS GOING TO HAPPEN
OVERNIGHT.
OR EVEN BY THE END OF THIS
TERM, THERE MIGHT BE SOME
PROGRESS THAT CAN BE MADE OVER
NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS BUT, ADD
IN THE OTHER COMPONENTS THE
INCREASES IN THE NUMBERS OF
STUDENTS AND MEDICAL SCHOOLS
AND SOME EFFORTS TO HAVE
FOREIGN TRAINED DOCTORS
QUALIFIED TO PRACTICE HERE IN
ONTARIO AND WE WILL BEGIN TO
HOPEFULLY SEE SOME PROGRESS.

Steve says 5,000 DOCTORS ARE
GOING TO RETIRE DURING LIFE OF
THIS AGREEMENT EVEN WITH ALL
OF THESE POSITIVE CHANGES IS
IT ENOUGH TO TREAD WATER?

Dave says AND I THINK THAT'S THE
DANGER FOR THE GOVERNMENT IN
THAT IF PEOPLE THINK THAT THIS
IS GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY
RESULT IN BEING ABLE TO ACCESS
GENERAL PRACTITIONERS FAMILY
DOCTORS.
IT IS GOING TO TAKE TIME.

Janet says AND THE BIG POLITICAL RISK
THEY WENT OUT AND SAID TO
PEOPLE WE ARE BREAKING PROMISE
TO RAISE TAX WE SAID WE
WOULDN'T.
WE ARE GOING TO RAISE THEM ASK
PUT ON TO HEALTH CARE.
AND THE PUBLIC HAS KIND OF
SAID OKAY.
WE ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT
BUT LET'S JUDGE THE RESULTS.

Sean says BUT THE GOOD THING HERE I
THINK FROM THE GOVERNMENT'S
POINT OF VIEW AND I THINK FROM
THE COMMUNITIES POINT OF VIEW
IF YOU LOOK AT THE 74 percent
RATIFICATION APPROVAL OR THE
74 percent OF THE –

Steve says 16 PERCENT OF
DOCTORS THAT DID VOTE

Sean says IF I AM
IN GOVERNMENT OR IF I AM IN
THE COMMUNITY GENERALLY I AM
ENCOURAGED THAT A LOT OF THE YOUNGER
DOCTORS THE RESIDENTS, THE MEN
AND WOMEN OF TOMORROW, SEEM
STRONGLY ON SIDE FOR THIS KIND
OF A GENERAL DIRECTION.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT IS
AT.
BUT THE OTHER PROBLEM I KEEP
COMING BACK TO IS THAT YOU
HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF WE ASK
OUR AUDIENCE WOULD YOU WANT TO
BE FAMILY PRACTITIONER IN
URBAN RURAL OR NORTHERN CANADA
TODAY?
AND THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN OVER
LAST TEN OR 15 YEARS, IN MUCH
OF THE DEVELOPED PARTS OF
NORTH AMERICA, MORE AND NOR
YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T WANT
TO GO THERE.
SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE NOT
ONLY DO THIS KIND OF A DEAL,
BUT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO
GET VERY CREATIVE IN MAKING
WHAT THE PUBLIC OUT THERE
EXPECTATIONS AS A RIGHT MORE
ATTRACTIVE.

Steve says TELL ME ABOUT THE
ADVISABILITY THEN OF COMMENT
MADE BY JOHN BARRED YOU KNOW
WE IS OPPOSITION CRITIC.
BUT HE HAS -- I GUESS WE ARE
MOVING HERE FROM MERITS
DEAL TO THE POLITICS BEHIND
IT.
HE ACCUSED THE GOD OF OPENING
UP BRINKS TRUCK AND SAYING
COME ON IN DOCTORS TAKE
WHATEVER YOU LIKE.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR?

Janet says WELL, THERE’S NO QUESTION THAT
PHYSICIANS I WOULD ARGUE THAT
YOU KNOW THE GOVERNMENT DOES
HAVE A POINT YOU NEED TO HAVE
PHYSICIANS HERE.
YOU HAVE TO PAY COMPETITIVE
RATE TO GET THEM HERE AND KEEP
THEM HERE.
SO THE GOVERNMENT DIDN'T HAVE
A LOT OF CHOICE.
BUT THIS IS THE SAME
GOVERNMENT THAT HAS CRITICIZED
OTHERS AND ASKED OTHERS TO
MAKE SUPPOSED FINANCIAL SACRIFICES
FOR PARTICULAR
PERCENTAGE.

Steve says AND SO, THEY ARE STEVE
YOU CAN'T DO THAT, DOCTORS.

She air quotes the word "sacrifices"

Janet says THAT'S RIGHT SO THEY
HAVE -- AND I GUESS THE THING
THAT IS INTERESTING THOUGH IS
THAT IT WAS NOT A SECRET I
MEAN THIS GETS BACK TO PREMIER
DALTON MCGUINTY AND THE THEM
KNOWING THINGS AND MAKE
COMMITMENT AND SETTING
STRATEGIES IN PLACE OR FACT
WOULD TELL YOU THAT IN ORDER
TO GET THE KIND OF
TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE WILL
YOU HAVE PUT MORE MONEY IN SO
AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU KNOW
THAT, YOU ARE SETTING THERE
TELLING OTHER WORKERS ONLY
KNOW IT IS ONLY-1 2 percent.

Steve says NOW THE MINISTER IN HIS
INTERVIEW WITH ME DID MAKE
POINT YOU CAN LOOK AT THIS
ANTIGEN RAIL COLLECTIVE
AGREEMENT WHERE EVERYBODY
GOING TO GET THE SAME INCREASE
ACROSS THE BOARD.
HOWEVER, OTHER PUBLIC SECTOR
UNIONS WHO CONTRACTS ARE UP
ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THIS
AGREEMENT AND SAY, ON AVERAGE
IT IS 6 percent A YEAR AND YOU ARE
ASKING US TO SETTLE FOR 2.
WHAT KIND OF PRECEDENT YOU
THINK THIS SETS?

Dave says WELL, I WAS SURPRISED.
I WAS TALKING EARLIER TODAY
WITH SOME LAWYERS THAT ARE IN
LABOUR LAW AND ACTUALLY
BARGAINING TABLES AND I ASKED
THEM THAT QUESTION.
AND THEY SAID, NOT TO READ TOO
MUCH INTO THIS SETTING
PRECEDENT BECAUSE THE
WORKPLACES FOR TEACHERS FOR
EXAMPLE, OR IN OTHER COLLEGE
ARE QUITE DIFFERENT.
AND WHILE IT WILL PROBABLY BE
USED AT THE BARGAINING TABLE
AND RAISED AT THE BARGAINING
TABLE THE RESPONSE WILL BE A
LITTLE BIT LIKE JANET SAID FEW
MINUTES AGO, THERE WAS A LOT
OF CHANGE THAT WAS BOUGHT WITH
THE AGREEMENT WITH THE
DOCTORS.
SO IF YOU WANT TO DO THINGS A
WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT, THAN
MAYBE WE CAN TALK ABOUT SOME
CHANGES.
BUT IS IT PROBABLY DOES NOT
SET THE SAME PRECEDENT.
THERE IS ALSO THE ISSUE OF
SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE,
SUPPLY IS NOT.

Steve says ABUNDANT.

Sean says AND LET'S BE CLEAR.
THAT IF THE GOVERNMENT WAS TO
GET A DEAL CLEARLY THEY WERE
GOING TO HAVE TO PUT SOMETHING
EXTRA ON THE TABLE.
AND THEY DID.
BETWEEN MARCH OF 2005 AND
WHATEVER IT WAS SEPTEMBER OR
OCTOBER OF 2004, IT LOCKS LIKE
THEY PUT ANOTHER 120 MILLION
DOLLARS ON THE TABLE OVER
FOUR-YEAR DEAL WORTH ABOUT 2.4
BILLION.
AND THEY PUT MOST OF THAT
MONEY AS I READ THE DEAL AT
THE FRONT END OF THE
AGREEMENT.

Janet says YES SOME AT THE FRONT END.
BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE
ANYTHING UP FRONT BEFORE.

Sean says IF YOU HAVE TO PUT IT INTO
FOUR-YEAR DEAL 2.4 BILLION
DOLLAR TO GET THIS KIND OF
RESULT I THINK ON BALANCE IT
WAS PROBABLY A GOOD THING TO
DO.

Dave says THIS IS WHERE IT IS GREAT
TO IN BE OPPOSITION.
WHEN THEY DIDN'T GET A DEAL.
WHEN DOCTORS REJECTED THE DEAL
THEN THIS WERE ABLE TO SAY,
AND THE GOVERNMENT WAS LOOKING
AT IMPOSING THEY WERE SAYING
THE GOVERNMENT IS HORRIBLE.
AND FOR EVEN THINKING THIS NOW
THAT THE GOT A DEAL THEY ARE
SAYING HE SPENT TOO MUCH MEAN
GETTING A DEAL.

Janet says BUT I UNDERSTAND TOO THAT
GOVERNMENT.
IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT IT TOOK
TWO TRIES TO DO IT AND I MEAN
YOU KNOW THINK THE
CONSERVATIVE CAUCUS WAS PART
OF GANG THAT WAS OUT THERE
TRYING TO GET EVERYBODY BACK
TO THE TABLE.
BUT THE GOVERNMENT TOOK
THIS -- THEY TREATED THIS MUCH
DIFFERENTLY IT WAS A -- THINK
BETTER FOCUS TEAM THAT DEALT
WITH THE OMA THEY HAD MORE
PREMIER AND POLITICAL.

Sean says I UNDERSTAND TRYING TO BE
MORE TACK I CANAL AND
STRATEGIC AND I THINK THEY
REALIZE THEY HAD GOT AS OMA
DID EVERYBODY GOT EARS PINNED
BACK WHEN IT BLUE UP THE FIRST
TIME.
SO I THINK THEY TOOK IS MORE
SERIOUSLY.
ON NEGOTIATIONS TO MAYBE NOT
PARTICULARLY A FEW MONTHS AGO,
THE NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE AND
ITS PLAYERS ASSOCIATION LOOKED
LIKE THEY GOT RELATIVELY CLOSE
TO A SALARY CAP.
AND THEY COULDN'T MAKE A DEAL.
AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING FOR
EXAMPLE TO SEE AT THE END OF
THAT PRO SECTION WHAT THE
PRICE BE TO BE PAID FOR THAT
FAILURE.
I THINK HERE, I WAS -- THINK I
SAID ON THIS PROGRAM FEW
MONTHS AGO I WAS NOT
PARTICULARLY HAPPY THAT
GOVERNMENT CAME OUT AFTER THE
LAST ROUND THAT FAILED AND
TOOK WHAT I THOUGHT WAS OVERLY
HARSH POSITION.
I THOUGHT WAS NOT HELPFUL.
IT TURNS OUT AT THE END DAY OF
THE THEY GOT THEIR DEAL IT
TOOK A LITTLE WHILE LONGER AND
I THINK FOR DALTON MCGUINTY
AND GEORGE SMITHERMAN WHO HAVE
HAD KIND OF A -- THEY HAVE HAD
A BUMPY FEW MONTHS AND I THINK
THEY HAVE GOT TO BE HAPPY WITH
THIS BECAUSE THIS I THINK VERY
SIGNIFICANT DEAL.

Dave says I WOULD LIKE TO SEE CLEAR
UNDERSTANDING THAT OMA AS WELL
AS GOVERNMENT HAS
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE
SUCCESSFUL IMPLEMENTATION.

Steve says THEY HAVE SOLD THIS ONE
MORE --.

Dave says WELL THIS IS THE FIRST
STEP.
NOW, THE MEASUREMENT WILL COME
LATER IN TERMS OF HOW MANY
MORE GROUP PRACTICES WE GET
WHERE WE GET MULTI
PROFESSIONAL APPROACH TO THIS.
AND I DON'T THINK IT IS JUST
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH'S
RESPONSIBILITY.
I THINK THE OMA HAS A
RESPONSIBILITY, TOO IN.

Steve says IN OUR LAST COUPLE MINUTES
ON THIS SUBJECT, THERE IS NOT
I MEAN THIS SOME RESPECTS
THERE STILL COUPLE OF YEARS
LEFT UNTIL NEXT ELECTION IN
SOME RESPECTS THAT'S NOT VERY
MUCH TIME AT ALL.
PARTICULARLY IF YOU ARE
BANKING ON HAVING ON BEING
ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THE
CHANGES IN HEALTH CARE ARE
ABUNDANT AND THERE FOR YOU
SHOULD RE-ELECT US THE QUESTION
IS NOW THAT AGREEMENT IN PLACE
DO YOU THINK BASED UPON YOUR
EXPERIENCE ON THIS FILE, THAT
THERE IS ENOUGH TIME LEFT
BEFORE OCTOBER 2007, FOR THE
LIBERALS TO DEMONSTRATE YES,
THINGS ARE BETTER?

Janet says I THINK THEY ARE
RUNNING OUT OF TIME THERE MAY
BE CHANGE BUT I THINK WHERE IT
IS GOING TO BE MORE CHANGE
PEOPLE MIGHT NOTICE MOVER IF
THEY CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT
WAITING LISTS.
THE KIND OF CHANGES THAT HE
ARE GOING TO GET WITHIN
PHYSICIANS THAT'S GOING TO
TAKE TIME THERE MAYBE SOME
PATIENTS WHO SEE IT A LITTLE
BIT IN SOME COMMUNITIES GROUP
PRACTICES FOR EXAMPLE, BUT
THAT'S A LONGER TERM THING.
WHERE THEY NEED TO HAVE SOME
PROGRESS, THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN PUSHING
THIS, YOU KNOW AND THE ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN PUSHING
THIS IS ON THAT WAITING LIMIT
STUFF THAT'S ONE WHERE PEOPLE
HAVE -- WE ALL HAVE FRIENDS OR
RELATIVES WHO ARE ON WAITING
LISTS AND IF THAT STARTS TO
DECREASE, I THINK THAT MIGHT
BE A GOOD THING.
THE OTHER THING WOULD BE
SPECIALIST BY THE WAY.
ACCESS TO SPECIALIST.

Sean says I WAS GOING SAY THAT.
THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT POINT.
I AM THINKING BACK TO MY
EXPERIENCE AS ELECTED OFFICIAL
IN EASTERN ONTARIO AND I THINK
ONE OF THE REALLY POSITIVE
ASPECTS OF THIS IS NOT JUST IN
ENRICHING THE PAY PACKAGE FOR
FAMILY PRACTITIONERS BUT I
THINK SOME OF WHAT THEY HAVE
DONE IN THIS DEAL TO MAKE IT
MOVER ATTRACTIVE IS STOCK THE
CAP OFF SPECIALIST.
CAN I TELL YOU IN LOT OF REGIONAL
CENTRES THAT SHOULD
VERY SIGNIFICANTLY DEAL WITH
SOME PARTS OF THE WAIT LISTS
PROBLEMS.

Steve says OKAY UP NEXT PC LEADER JOHN
TORY’S FIRST WEEK AS MEMBER
ONTARIO LEGISLATURE.

A clip shows John Tory taking oath.

John Tory is in his early late forties, clean-shaven and with short wavy light brown hair. He wears a blue suit, blue shirt and striped tie.

He says I DO SOMEWHERE THAT I WILL
BE FAITHFUL AND BEAR TRUE TO
HER QUEEN SO HELP ME GOD.
I FEEL GOOD.

In a hallway, he says YOU KNOW IT IS NEW DAY AND NEW
JOB.
AND I HAVE THAT HEALTHY SENSE
OF APPREHENSION THAT YOU ARE
SUPPOSED TO HAVE.
BUT AS LONG AS YOU DO YOUR
BEST YOU CAN'T GO WRONG.

Another clip shows John entering the legislature. The members applaud.

He says MISTER SPEAKER MY FIRST
QUESTION IS TO PRETTY MERE.
WHILE ASSUME WE WILL HAVE A
BUDGET IN FEW WEEKS TIME GIVEN
ALL OF THE SPECULATION I
WONDER IF THE PREMIER COULD
TELL US HIS BEST ESTIMATE
DEFICIT.

Another member says GOOD QUESTION.

The speaker says PREMIER?

The caption changes to "Honourable Dalton McGuinty. Premier."

Dalton is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short straight brown hair. He wears a blue suit, white shirt and striped burgundy tie.

He says PREMIER, THE -- I AM
DELIGHTED TO HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO BRING HOME TO
THE LEADER OF THE OFFICIAL
OPPOSITION, THE NATURE OF THE
CHALLENGE WE HAVE BEEN
BURDENED WITH AS A RESULT OF
HIS GOVERNMENT'S FAILINGS TO
PROPERLY ADDRESS FINANCIAL
ISSUES AND PROBLEMS OF
ONTARIO.

John says I THINK THE PEOPLE AT HOME
MUCH THINK THEY ARE WATCHING
COMEDY CHANNEL IF YOU ARE
GIVING ME A LECTURE.

Outside the legislature, John says I WAS MORE COMFORTABLE ON
WILL SECOND QUESTION THAN
FIRST.
BUT WE WILL HAVE TO KEEP AT IT
AND KEEP ASKING THE QUESTIONS
AND HOPEFULLY GET AN ANSWER OR
TWO.

Back in the studio, Steve says FIRST QUESTION TO
YOU.
JOHN TORY FIRST QUESTION
WHAT'S THE SIZE OF THE
DEFICIT.
WHY THAT QUESTION?

Janet says WELL, I THINK THAT THAT'S
ONE OF THE ISSUES WHERE THEY
PROMISED THEY WERE GOING TO
FIX IT.
THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES
WHERE.

Steve says LIBERALS PROMISE?

Janet says YES.
THEY KNEW WHAT CHALLENGES WERE
THEY MADE ALL KINDS OF PROMISE
THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE
FUNDAMENTAL WEAKNESSES OF THE
POSITION THAT THEY ARE IN.
AND SECONDLY, I THINK JOHN
IS -- IT WAS VERY VALID
QUESTION TO ASK PREMIER.
ARE TELLING THE WORLD THAT
THERE GOING TO BE A BIGGER
DIFFICULT CORRECT SO WHAT'S
THE NUMBER.

Steve says YOU WOULD KNOW THAT'S
A NUMBER YOU DON'T USUALLY SEE
UNTIL THE BUDGET.

Janet says YET FINANCE MINISTER WAS
TELLING PEOPLE THAT IT WAS
GOING TO BE LARGE DEFICIT.
I MEAN THAT'S BEEN IN THE
PUBLIC PRESS.
BUT I THINK WHAT WAS
INTERESTING I THINK HE HAS GOT
ON IT OFF GOOD START NO ONE
GOES AND HIT HOME RUNS.
OPPOSITION LEADERS THAT'S NOT
THEIR JOB.
IT WAS A VERY SOLID, I THINK
BEGINNING FOR HIM.
AND ONE THING THAT I HAD TO
SMILE IS THAT WHEN YOU ARE
MINISTER PREMIER WHATEVER WHEN
YOU’RE SITTING THERE GETTING QUESTION
ASKED IN THE HOUSE, THE
OPPOSITION POLITICIANS ALWAYS HAVE TO
PONTIFICATE
SO LONG YOU CAN FLIP YOUR
BOOK JOHN STOOD UP, BAM, BAM SAT
DOWN AND THE PREMIER WAS
SHUFFLING AND YOU KNOW HE A
BIT -- SO I THINK HE PASSED
THE FIRST TEST OF THE
GOVERNMENT EFFECTIVE
OPPOSITION QUESTIONER.

Steve says DID YOU THINK IT WAS A BIT
CON A CONTROVERSIAL OF TORY TO
ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THE
DEFICIT GIVEN THAT IT DOES
INVITE THE PREMIER TO SAY YOU
GUYS HAND US THIS DEFICIT HOW
COME YOU ARE ASKING ME ABOUT
THIS?

Sean says I THINK JOHN HAD A VERY GOOD
FIRST QUESTION.
I WAS PERSONALLY IMPRESSED BY
ITS BREVITY.
I AM ALL IMPRESSED BY PEOPLE'S
ABILITY TO ASK A GOOD QUESTION IN
SHORT ORDER.
I DID NOTICE AS I LOOKED AT
THE THAT QUESTIONS DID GET
LONGER LATER IN THE WEEK.
AND THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE.
BUT NO JOHN SOMEONE WE HAVE
ALL KNOWN AND IS QUITE
ACCOMPLISHED ON HIS FEET.
I SUSPECT THAT HE WILL BE
QUITE COMFORTABLE IN THE
PARLIAMENTARY ENVIRONMENT.
BUT I DO SAY TO YOU AND MY
FELLOW PANELLIST ONE OF THE
MAXIMUM OF CANADIAN POLITICS
WAS THAT WHILE YOUR SURE ME
HAS BEEN WON ALL OF DEBATES
AND KING WON ALL OF THE ELECTIONS.

Steve says AND POINT THERE IS WORTH...
WELL THAT'S WORTH TAKING.

Sean says I WAS ELECTED YOU KNOW AND
DAVE COOKE WILL REMEMBER SOME
OF THIS.
I DON'T REMEMBER A MORE
POWERFUL PARLIAMENTARY FORCE
AND PRESENCE THAN STEVEN LAW
PHASE ABSOLUTELY BREATH
TAKING.
TO WATCH HIM IN ACTION.

Steve says AND HOW MANY ELECTION DID HE
WIN?

Janet says WHAT JOHN STARTING TO DO
BUILD THE CASE FOR COMPETENCE
OF GOVERNMENT I THINK THE
PREMIER QUITE FRANKLY I MEAN
THEY HAVE BEEN IN
POWER ALMOST TWO YEARS.
AND THEY MADE PROMISES THEY
ARE NOT MEETING THEM AND FOR
THE PREMIER TO STAND UP AND
SAY IT WELL IT WAS YOUR FAULT.
I -- YOU KNOW I THINK THAT
LOOKS A LITTLE --.

Dave says AT THIS POINT HE DID HAVE A
FIRST GOOD FIRST WEEK.
AND IT GOT GOOD PRINT MEDIA
AND COVERAGE AND THAT'S GOOD.
BECAUSE THAT'S NOT ALWAYS
HAPPENED WHEN NEW LEADERS COME
INTO THE HOUSE BUT YOU KNOW
THERE GOING TOOK SOME
QUESTIONS PRETTY SOON.
YES THERE IS A DEFICIT OF 6
BILLION.
MISTER TORY SAYING, WE ARE GOING
ELIMINATE THE HEALTH PREMIUM
OR THE HEALTH TAX.
SO THAT INCREASES THE DEFICIT
UP TO 9 BILLION.
AND THAT'S GOING TO START
BRINGING BACK SOME MEMORIES TO
PEOPLE OF WHAT MIKE HARRIS
DID.
HE CAME IN, AND NO TAX
INCREASES JUST TRIED TO BATTLE
BUDGET.
AND SLASHING AND
CUTTING -- SO ALL I AM
SAYING --.

Steve says OKAY.
HANG ON.

Dave says YOU GET OFF THE HOOK IN
FIRST WEEK, AND THEN FIRST FEW
WEEKS AND HE IS GOING TO HAVE
AN EASIER TIME BUT SOON THE DEBATE
BATHE WILL BE ENGAGED AND HE
HAS GOT TO COME UP WITH -- I

Sean says WANT TO -- I WANT TO SAY AND I
DON'T WANT TO BE PROVOCATIVE.
Steve says I THINK -- YOU NEVER ARE.

Sean says I THINK JOHN TORY WHO IS A
SEASONED PRO WILL RUE THE DAY
THAT HE SAID AND REPEATED THAT
HE IF ELECTED PREMIER WOULD...
WILL ABOLISH THE HEALTH
PREMIUM THAT IS THAT'S VERY
SERIOUS MISTAKE THAT HE WILL
REGRET.
AND I NOTICED FOR EXAMPLE THIS
WEEK IN BRITAIN ON THE EVE OF
THE CALL OF THE BRITISH GENERAL
ELECTION, WHERE IN FACT IN
RECENT WEEKS THE TORIES HAD
HAVE BEEN GAINING ON LABOUR
PARTIES IN FACT THE HEAD OF
THE -- VICE CHAIR OF THE
CONSERVATIVE BRITISH
CONSERVATIVE ELECTION TEAM
MADE BIG NEWS AND LEFT UNDER A
BLACK CLOUD IN SAYING THAT
THIS HAD NOT FULLY COME CLEAN
WITH THE MAGNITUDE OF THE CUTS
THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED
PARTICULARLY IN THE SOCIAL
ENVELOPE.
AND WE WILL SEE WHAT TWO AND
HALF YEARS BRINGS BUT I THINK
THAT'S ONE STRATEGIC ERROR
WILL REALLY REGRET.

Janet says ONE OF THE
FUNDAMENTAL THINGS THAT I
THINK THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT
HAS TO RECOGNIZE IS THAT YOU
HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON ECONOMIC
GROWTH AND YOUR PROVINCE THERE
A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT
IMPACT.
BUT, TAX INCREASES, AND THE
MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE THE
ELECTRICITY PRICE YOU CAN ARGUE
ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE GOOD
OR BAD DEPENDING ON YOUR POINT
OF VIEW BUT IT DOES CREATE
DRAG ON ECONOMY THAT'S DRAG ON
REVENUES TO GOVERNMENT.
AND WHEN WE LOWERED TAXES I
MEAN THE FACTS ARE THERE.
REVENUES INCREASED.
JOBS INCREASED.

All try to talk at the same time.

Steve says COME ON WE ARE NOT GOING
HERE AGAIN!
GOOD-BYE.
GOOD-BYE.
WE ARE NOT FIGHTING ELECT
AGAIN.
GO GOOD-BYE.
THANK YOU A LOT GOOD-BYE.
AND THAT'S "FOURTH
READING" ANOTHER WEEK I AM
GETTING OUT HERE WHILE I STILL
CAN.
I AM STEVE PAIKIN.
UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY, THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Editor, Paul Colbourne.

Director, Blair Harley.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2005, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

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