Transcript: Voter Anger | Jun 06, 2004

The opening sequence rolls.

Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an
animated number 4.

A clip shows two photos of competing politicians, one side being
liberal and the other being conservative.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON "4TH
READING," DEED DEAD HEAT.
A VIRTUAL TIE IN ONTARIO POINT
TO A MINORITY GOVERNMENT IN
OTTAWA.
BUT WILL IT BE LIBERAL OR
CONSERVATIVE?

[Theme music]

Steve, Janet, Dave, and Sean sit around a table in the shape of a
number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown
hair. He’s wearing a brown blazer over a black shirt.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
WELCOME TO "4TH READING" FOR
THIS WEEK.
IT'S BEEN A BUMPY RIDE IN WEEK
TWO OF THE FEDERAL ELECTION
CAMPAIGN.
PAUL MARTIN'S LIBERALS FALLING
IN THE POLLS IN VOTE-RICH
ONTARIO RESPECT REPORTEDLY
FALLING INTO DISARRAY BEHIND
THE SCENES AS IN-FIGHTING
CONTINUES TO HAMPER THEIR
CAMPAIGN.
THE NDP'S JACK LAYTON IS
ACCUSED OF NOT STANDING UP TO
THE SOVEREIGNIST IN QUEBEC.
STEPHEN HARPER GOT HIT WITH
FRIENDLY FIRE, AS HIS OWN
HEALTH CRITIC INTRODUCED INTO
THE CAMPAIGN THE POLITICALLY
UNUTTERABLE ISSUE OF ABORTION.
THE ALBERTA MP'S IDEA OF
LEGISLATING MANDATORY ABORTION
COUNSELLING HAD SOME SWING
VOTERS WONDERING IF THE NEW
CONSERVATIVES AREN'T JUST
THE OLD REFORM PARTY WOLF IN
SHEEP'S CLOTHING.
BUT HARPER IS TAKING SOLACE IN
HIS GAINS IN ONTARIO.

A caption changes to "Stephen Harper. Conservative Leader."
Stephen appears behind a podium. He is in his forties and has brown
hair that is parted on the side. He wears a black suit and a red
tie.

Stephen says I'M VERY OPTIMISTIC.
I THINK THINGS IN POLITIC
RARELY STAY STILL, RARELY STAND
STILL.
THERE'S BEEN INCREDIBLE
MOVEMENT IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION.
I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP
DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING, WHICH
IS TO REMIND PEOPLE WHAT THIS
ELECTION IS ABOUT.
IT'S ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY.

Steve says HERE TO HELP US
HANDICAP THE WEEK THAT WAS,
SEAN CONWAY, FORMER LIBERAL
CABINET MINISTER.

Sean appears in the studio. He is in his fifties and has short brown
hair and wears glasses. He also wears a black blazer, a blue shirt,
and brown tie.

Steve says JANET ECKER.
FORMER CONSERVATIVE CABINET MINISTER.

Janet appears in the studio. She is in her forties and she has short
brown hair in a pixie cut. She wears a black jacket and white shirt.

Steve continues DAVE COOKE, FORMER MDP
CABINET MINISTER.

Dave appears in the studio. He is in his forties and has short
buzzed cut hair. He wears a black jacket with a blue shirt.

Steve says I WANT TO START OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT TALKING ABOUT
SOMETHING
THAT'S TECHNIALLY NOT ON THE FEDEARL RADAR SCREEN. BUT IT'S ACTUALLY
A PROVINCIAL ISSUE, THAT
SEEMS TO BE EFFECTING THE
FEDERAL CAMPAIGN A GREAT DEAL
AND THAT'S THE ONTARIO BUDGET.
SEAN, TOWER FIRST.
I'VE SPOKEN TO SOME LIBERAL
MPP'S OVER THE PAST WEEK THAT
SAY THAT THE FIREARM STORM TO
MR. SORBA R A'S BUDGET IS
DISSIPATING AND
THEY DON'T BUY THE ARGEUEMTN THAT PAUL
MARTIN HAS FALLEN IN THE POLLS IN ONTARIO
BECAUSE OF THE MCGNITY SORBARA BUDGET.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

The caption reads "Sean Conway. Former Liberal Cabinet Minister."

Sean says WELL THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT ANY PROVINCIAL BUDGET CONTAINS
ANY NEWER SIGNIFICANT MEASURE IS GOING TO ATTRACT SOME ATTENTION. I
DON'T DOUBT THAT FOR A PERIOD OF TIMES A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. THAT
BUDGET WAS AN ISSUE FOR SOME PEOPLE.
I WAS OUT THE OTHER DAY IN
EASTERN ONTARIO, WITH A
CANDIDATE.
THERE WAS, THERE WAS SOME OF
IT.
BUT I WOULDN'T, WOULDN'T SAY
THAT IT WAS, IT WAS EVIDENT.
UM, BUT, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO BE
TRUTHFUL, I CAN'T THINK OF A
BUDGET THAT, THAT UM-- OF ANY
CONSEQUENCE THAT WOULDN'T BE OF
SOME INTEREST IMMEDIATELY AFTER
ITS INTRODUCTION.
AND I CERTAINLY HAVE SOME
EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT, THAT
THE, THAT THE ONTARIO BUDGET,
UM, WAS AN ISSUE FOR CERTAINLY
A NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

Steve says JANET, YOU BROUGHT IN
TWO BUDGETS.
WOULD YOU THINK THAT A BUDGET AS
CONTROVERSIAL AS THIS ONE COULD
BE RESPONSIBLE FOR A DROP AS
MANY AS 15 POINT IN MANY
MARTIN'S POPULARITY IN THIS
PROVINCE?

The caption changes to "Janet Eckerd. Former PC Cabinet Minister."

Janet says I THINK IN THE EARLY DAYS HAVE
THE CAMPAIGN, IT WAS VERY MUCH
ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE
FEDERAL LIBERALS DROPPED.
BECAUSE PEOPLE SAW LIBERAL IS A
LIBERAL IS A LIBERAL.
BUT WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT
IT, AND IT'S STILL OUT THERE, I
THINK.
THE CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD WITH
CANDIDATES AND VOTERS AD THAT, IN MY TRAVELS, IT'S STILL
AN ISSUE.
WHAT I THINK IS ALSO HAPPENING,
TOO, IS Its KIND OF MORPHING
INTO A GENERALIZED ANGER A GENERALIZED CYNICISM.
A GENERALIZED POX ON ALL OF
THEIR HOUSES AND I THINK THIS
ELECTION IS-- IS, UM, IS REALLY
A-- REALLY-- I STILL THINK IT'S
A LITTLE EARLY TO START
PREDICTING EXACTLY WHAT WILL
HAPPEN.
WE HAVE POLLSTERS ALL OVER THE
PLACE.
BUT I THINK THIS THING COULD
CHANGE.
THE DEBATE COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE AN ISSUE LIKE
ABORTION OR ANOTHER ISSUE THAT
COME UP, BECAUSE THE VOTERS OUT THERE ARE PRETTY CRANKY AT
EVERYBODY.
THEY COULD JUST ABOUT, THEY
COULD JUST JUMP WHEREVER THEY WANT
TO JUMP.

Steve says DAVE COOK, ARE YOU ON
THAT ONE?

The caption changes to "Dave Cooke. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Dave says WELL I THINK THE BUDGET PLAYED
INTO IT.
I THINK THE
COMMUNICATIONS AFTER THE BUDGET
FROM THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN
PRETTY WEAK IN TERMS OF TRYING
TO MAKE THE CASE OF WHY THEY
WERE ARE A RAISING THE TAXES.
BUT I THINK THAT IAN GERHARD HAD A
GOOD COLUMN THE OTHER DAY
WHERE-- IN THE TORONTO STAR
THAT SAID THAT IT'S NOT
NECESSARILY EVEN THE SPECIFICS
IN THE BUDGET, AS MUCH AS IT IS
FOR MONTH, THE ELECTION
CAMPAIGN, AND MONTHS AFTER THE
ELECTION CAMPAIGN, THE PREMIER
AND THE TREASURER WERE SAYING
NO, INCREASE, MAJOR INCREASE IN
TAXES.
OR NO INCREASE IN TAXES AT ALL.
THEN THEY GET HIT WITH THIS.
SO I THINK THAT THEY'RE PAYING
THE PRICE.
AND IT'S FEEDING INTO SOME
ANGER AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL
AS WELL.

Steve says YOU TALK ABOUT--

Sean says WHAT'S-- ONE OF THE THINGS,
WHEN I LOOK AT THE ONTARIO
BUDGET IT, SEEMS TO ME THAT
THERE IS ANT OPPORTUNITY HERE
FOR LIBERALS TO-- TO SQUARELY
ENGAGE THE DEBATE.
I THINK THAT THE-- ABOUT THE
KIRBY REPORT A COUPLE OF YEARS
AGO SAYING TO THE PEOPLE OF
CANADA, BY THE WAY, THIS WAS A
REPORT FROM THE SENATE OF
CANADA SIGNED UNANIMOUSLY BY
LIBERAL AND CONSEVERTIVE
SENATORS AND THEY MADE IT
CLEAR, THEY WENT ONE STEP
FURTHER THAN THE ROMONOW REPORT
AND SAID THAT, LISTEN, IF YOU
WANT THE KIND OF HEALTH CARE
PROGRAM THAT CANADIANS WANT,
YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
AND YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN
LESS.

Steve says BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT GERHARD WAS SAYING, GERHARD'S
CRITICISM IS THAT

Sean says I REALIZE THAT.
BUT FROM THE-- BUT FROM THE
LIBERAL'S POINT OF VIEW,
THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY HERE.
I THNK THE OTHER PROBLEM FOR PAUL MARTIN,
QUITE FRANKLY.
AND JANET MIGHT WANT TO COMMENT
BECAUSE SHE
LIVED THIS
EXPERIENCE WITH ERNIE EVES.
IT'S ALWAYS A DANGEROUS TIME WHEN
AFTER A LONG-TIME PREMIER OR
PRIME MINISTER LEAVES OFFICE
AND A NEW PERSON TAKES OVER.
WHETHER IT WAS DAVIS AFTER
ROBARTS OR ERNIE EVES AFTER
HARRIS THAT NEW PERSON HAS TO
BE ABLE TO PUT HIS OR HER STAMP
ON THE NEW GOVERNMENT OR THE
PARTY IN GOVERNMENT, RATHER
QUICKLY.
AND I THINK THAT PAUL MARTIN,
WHO I QUITE LIKE AND KNOW WELL,
HAS STRUGGLED.
I THINK AGAINST THE BACKDROP OF
THE SPONSORSHIP SCANDAL, AND
OTHER THINGS TO, PUT HIS CLEAR
STAMP ON OUT FEDERAL LIBERAL
PARTY.

Steve says LET ME PICK UP ON
SOMETHING THAT DAVE COOKE JUST SAID.
YOU INDICATED THAT YOU DIDN'T
THINK THE LIBERALS DID A GREAT
JOB OF SELLING THE BUDGET.
THEY MAY BE IN ACCORD WITH YOU.
BECAUSE THIS PAST WEEK, THEY'VE
DECIDED TO SPEND LIBERAL PARTY
MONEY, NOT TAXPAYER'S DOLLARS,
BUT LIBERAL PARTY MONEY SELLING
THE BUDGET WITH SOME RADIO ADS.
LET'S GIVE A LISTEN AND COME
BACK AND TALK.
MICHAEL, IF YOU WOULD.
ROLL TAPE.

A slate shows a picture of Dalton in a grey jacket with a red tie
and white shirt, with a backdrop of the legislature in tinted pink.

Dalton speaks HI I'M DALTON MCGUINTY.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT EVERY
PENNY OF ONTARIO NEW
HEALTH PREMIUM WILL GO TO
HEALTH CARE. IT WILL MEAN SHORTER
WAITS FOR RADIATION AND
CHEMOTHERAPY.
TOGETHER, WE'RE GOING TO BUILD
A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT WE
CAN ALL BE PROUD OF.

Steve says THAT'S A CHUNK OF A
LONGER AD THAT WILL BE RUNNING ON
RADIO STATIONS FOR THE NEXT
LITTLE WHILE.
AND JANET I"M WONDERING IF IN YOUR
EXPERIENCE SINCE YOU HAVE
BEEN OUT THERE TRYING TO SELL A
BUDGET ON BEHALF OF YOURSELF
AND YOUR PARTY, DO THESE KINDS
OF ADS WORK?

Janet says I THINK THEY DO HELP AND
I'VE ALWAYS BEEN, YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE THERE'S THE ARGUMENT
ABOUT WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT IS PAYING OR WHETHER THE
PARTY IS PAYING FOR IT AND BUT
I THINK COMMUNICATING WITH THE
PUBLIC ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING
AND WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO
GO IS ALWAYS A
GOOD THING FOR A GOVERNMENT TO
DO.
WHETHER OR NOT IT WORKS REMAINS
TO BE SEEN.
SO I THINK IT IS A SYMPTOM
THAT-- THAT THEY QUITE
RECOGNIZE THAT THEY HAVE NOT
BEEN ABLE TO COMMUNICATE THIS
BUDGET.
AND QUITE FRANKLY, UM, YOU
KNOW, THE BIG ISSUE IS THE
ISSUE THEY MADE.
THEY MADE A BIG PROMISE.
THEY SIGNED A PLEDGE.
THEY, THEY DID THE HOLIER THAN
THOU THING, KNOWING THE FISCAL
SITUATION WAS VERY, VERY
DIFFICULT.
THEY'RE REAPING WHAT THEY SOWED
NOW.

Steve says WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT
THIS IN A SECOND.
REASON I WANT TO GET INTO THIS
IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS HELPS
THE FEDERAL CAMPAIGN.
DOES DALTON MCGUINTY TAKING ADS
HELPING TO SELL HIS BUDGET
WHICH HAS HURT PAUL MARTIN'S
FORTUNES, HELP PAUL MARTIN
FORTUNE?
THAT'S THE QUESTION.

Dave says I THINK IT HAS THE POTENTIAL.
I'M A LITTLE SURPRISED ON THE FIRST DAY,
THE DAY THE WRITS WERE DROPPED,
PAUL MARTIN TRIED TO MAKE THE
COMMENT THAT-- UM, THAT
PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS THAT IF
YOU LOWER TAXES TOO LOW, THEN
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO
TOO PAY FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL
SERVICES.
I.E., MIKE HARRIS
AND THAT SEEMS TO BE DROPPED AND I
THINK THEY COULD MAKE THE TIE,
THE TIE-IN, AS DIFFICULT AS IT
MIGHT BE, WITH THE PROVINCIAL
BUDGET, AND IN SAYING THAT, YOU
KNOW, THERE'S ONLY WAY TO PAY
FOR THESE KIND OF SERVICES.
WE MIGHT HAVE MADE MISTAKES IN
HOW WE COMMUNICATED--
SOME OF THE STUFF.
BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE.
I DON'T THINK THEY'VE--
SOMETIME THE BEST DEFENCE IS A
GOOD OFFENSE AND THEY HAVEN'T
REALLY DONE IT.

Janet says BUT THE INTERESTING THING
IS, TOO, THE RADIO ADS ARE
REMINDING PEOPLE OF THE PROMISE
THAT THEY BROKE.
ON THE OTHER CHALLENGE, ON THE
ONE HAND THEY'RE CLAIMING THEY ARE PUTTING
MORE MONEY IN FOR MORE
HEALTH SERVICES.
BUT PEOPLE ARE HEARING ABOUT WITH
THERE ARE D LISTED OPTOMETRY
AND CHIROPRACTIC AND WHATEVER.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER PROBLEM THERE.

Steve says A LITTLE UNBALANCE THERE.

Janet says RIGHT SO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR THE
PUBLIC TO SEE THAT.

Sean says BUT THINK-- I THINK THE
BRITISH COLUMBIA GOVERNMENT
FOR EXAMPLE- HAS BEEN TAKING
TELEVISION ADS FOR THE LAST NUMBER OF AND SAYING,
LISTEN, HERE ARE THE REALITIES
OF THE HEALTH SPENDING IN THE
PROVINCE.
I THINK THERE'S A REALLY IMPORTANT
PUBLIC EDUCATION CAMPAIGN HE
HERE.
BECAUSE I-- AS I TOLD YOU
BEFORE, I NOW SIT ON THE
HOSPITAL BOARD.
I'M STUNED, AS A LONG-TIME
FORMER LEGISLATURE TO SEE ON A
QUARTERLY BASIS WHAT THE
PRESSURES ARE IN THIS SYSTEM.
WE'VE BEEN D LISTING AND
LISTING FOR DECADES IN THIS
PROVINCE.
I AGREE WITH DAVE COOKE.
I THINK THIS NATIONAL ELECTION,
UM, AND OTHER ELECTIONS IN THE
NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE ARE
GOING TO BE A CLEAR CHOICE
BETWEEN DO YOU WANT YOUR
GOVERNMENT TO SENSIBLY TAX YOU
FOR IMPORTANT PUBLIC SERVICES,
THAT ARE GOING TO COST MONEY,
AND THE REALITY IS THAT THE
HEALTH COST ARE GOING UP, NOT
DOWN.
AS OUR POPULATION AGES--

Steve says LET'S--

Janet says BUT IT'S GOING TO BE--

Dave says IT'S GOT TO BE CLEAR.

Sean says 45 PERCENT OF PROGRAM SPENDING IS
HEALTH CARE NOW AND IT'S
DRIVING, JANET AND THE PUBLIC
OUT THERE--

Janet says AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

Sean says I KNOW YOU DO.

Janet says GOVERNMENTS HAVE BEEN
SAYING

STEVE says I WANT TO-- I
WANT TO INTERRUPT HERE, BECAUSE I WANT TO BRING JUST A
FEW MINUTES LEFT ON THE
SEGMENT. BACK ONTO THE
FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN SCENE
AND BRING UP JACK LAYTON AND WHAT
HAPPENED TO HIM IN THE PAST WEEK IN A HALF.
HE GOT BY ALL ACCOUNTS OFF TO A GREAT START I
THINK.
THEN HE SORT OF ACCUSED THE PRIME
MINISTER OF BEING A KILLER OF
HOMELESS PEOPLE.
UM, AND NOW SOME PEOPLE ARE
COMPARING HIM TO HOWARD DEAN
AND STOCKWELL DAY.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S
APPROPRIATE?

Dave says WELL THE HOUSING ISSUE I ACTUALLY THINK YOU COULD ARGUE
EITHER SIDE OF THAT.
I DON'T THINK THAT IN ITSELF
WOULD HAVE BEEN-- WOULD HAVE
BEEN DIFFICULT.
THE POINT HE WAS MAKING IS THAT
PEOPLE HAVE TO BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR
POLICY DECISIONS.
THE ISSUE OF THE CLARITY ACT IN
QUEBEC, I THINK WAS,
WAS REALLY A WRONG STRATEGIC
MOVE.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE--

Steve says HE WAS AGAINST IT,
DESPITE THE FACT THAT-- THAT
THERE'S--

Dave says THE CAUCUS SUPPORT IT, SOME
OF THE M P'S SUPPORTED IT.
BUT TO GO INTO QUEBEC, IT
LOOKED SO OPPORTUNISTIC.
THEY'RE JUST GOING IN THERE TO TRY
AND PICK UP SOME VOTES.
OTHER THING THAT SURPRISED ME
WAS THE FACT THAT JOE COLMARTIN DOWN IN
MY HOMETOWN AND BILL BLAKELY AND LAUREN OSTROM
WERE OUTSPOKEN ON THESE ISSUES.
UM, AND I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT
THAT WHEN A PARTY WAS DOING
BETTER, THAT THERE WOULD BE
SILENCE.
IF NOT, IF NOT SUPPORT.

The caption changes to "Sean Conway. Former Liberal Cabinet
Minister."

Sean says AND ON THIS, BY THE WAY, THE
LIBERALS CLEARLY A PART OF
THEIR STRATEGY FOR THE NEXT FEW
DAYS HAS GOT TO BE GETTING AT
THAT NDP VOTE, WHICH IS RISING
AND IT APPEARS TO BE AT THE
LIBERAL'S EXPENSE.
I AGREE WITH DAVE COOKE.
I THOUGHT THE REALLY SIGNIFICANT MISCALCULATION
THAT JACK LAYTON MADE WAS THE
CLARITY ACT.
CAUSE I DON'T THINK HE'LL WIN MUCH IN
QUEBEC.
BUT THE CLARITY ACT IS I THINK
REAL TROUBLE FOR CORE NDP
VOTERS ENGLISH CANADA AND IF
I WERE A FEDERAL LIBERAL, I
TELL YOU, PARTICULARLY IN
PLACES LIKE TORONTO AND
WINNIPEG AND VANCOUVER, I WOULD
REALLY BE GOING AFTER THE JACK
LAYTON FOR, A POSITION ON
THE CLARITY ACT THAT I THINK
THAT SHOULD BE ABLE TO MOVE,
POTENTIALLY, SOME OF THAT,
THAT DRIFTING LIBERAL VOTE,
WHICH HAS GONE TO THE NDP, BACK
TO THE LIBERALS.

Janet says BUT ALL THREE PARTIES, AND
ALL THREE LEADERS HAVE BEEN
DISPLAYING VERY BAD, WHAT YOU
WOULD CALL MESSAGE DISCIPLINE.
I MEAN, PARTIES-- YOU KNOW,
LEADERS HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCED,
THE PARTIES THEY ALL KNEW AN
ELECTION WAS COMING, AND I'VE
BEEN SURPRISED AT HOW OFTEN
THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE KEEPING ON
THEIR OWN MESSAGE.
BUT THE INTERESTING THING, THE
THING THAT'S PROBABLLY THE MOST DAMAGING FOR
THE LIBERALS RIGHT NOW, AND A
SIGN, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER
IS WHEN THEY START FIGHTING
WITH EACH OTHER-- FIGHTING WITH
EACH OTHER SO PUBLICLY AND THE
THE FIGHTING BETWEEN
MARTIN, THAT'S MORE DAMAGE TO
GO A GOVERNMENT THAN SOME OF
THE POLICY ISSUES.
AND ACTUALLY IT REMINDS ME I REMEMBER DALTON CAMP
SPEAKING ABOUT A PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT,
THE WAS DEFEATED
AND HE SAID THE GOVERNMENT WASN'T SO MUCH DEFEATED AS IT PICKED
ITSELF UP BY THE
SCRUF OF THE NECK AND HURLED
ITSELF OUT THE DOOR.
AND THERE'S A LOT OF
THAT HAPPENING IN OTTAWA WITH
THE FEDERAL LIBERAL
PARTY NOW.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU ONE MORE THING WHILE WE ARE ON IT HERE.
AND THAT IS IN TERMS OF STAYING
ON MESSAGE TRACK MR. HARPER WELL I THNK HAS DONE ACTUALLY A
REMARKABLE JOB STAYING ON MESSAGE TRACK WITH A FEW NOTABLE
EXCEPTIONS.
BOTH FOISED ON HIM BY A COUPLE
OF BACK BENCH MP'S ON HIS SIDE.
THE BILINGUALISM ISSUE CAME UP
IN WEEK ONE AND ABORTION NOW
CAME UP IN WEEK
TWO.
MY QUESTION IS WHAT DO YOU
THINK OF STEPHEN HARPER
REVEALING, ACKNOWLEDGING, USE
WHATEVER VERB YOU LIKE THAT HE
WOULD PERMIT A FREE VOTE ON
ABORTION IF THE CONSERVATIVES
FORM A GOVERNMENT?

Janet says WELL, IT WAS ALWAYS MY
UNDERSTANDING THAT HE SAID-- HE
WOULDN'T BRING IT FORWARD.
BUT WOULD BE A FREE VOTE.
UM, AND-- AND I THINK THAT IF--
IF, UM, SO I WAS A LITTLE
SURPRISED THAT PEOPLE ARE
SAYING THAT SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER
THAT'S A NEW PIECE.
THAT WAS ALWAYS MY
UNDERSTANDING OF HIS PARTY
POSITION.

Steve says WHY-- IT'S NOT NEW.
WHY IS IT POINTED OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF AN
ELECTION CAMPAIGN--

Janet says FIRST OF ALL IT'S NEVER WISE TO TALK
ABOUT ABORTION FROM ANY SIDE OF
THE ELECTION.
PERIOD, END OF STORY.
BUT I THINK WHAT IS ALSO
HAPPENING TO HIM AND HIS, HIS
CANDIDATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY
IS THE MEDIA ARE PLAYING THE
GOOD OLD GAME.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
ABORTION?
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT CAPITAL
PUNISHMENT?
BECAUSE THEY KNOW IF THEY CAN
GET SOMEBODY TO SAY
SOMETHING, IT MAKES A BIG
STORY SO THERE'S A LOT OF THAT
GOING ON.
HE'S BEING FORCED TO RESPOND.
FRANKLY, I MEAN, HE'S BEING
ASKED ABOUT IT.

Sean says ON OPENING DAY, STEPHEN
HARPER SAID THAT I AM LEADING
A-- A MODERATE, UM, MIDDLE OF
THE ROAD PARTY.
AND THERE'S ALREADY BEEN SOME
REAL EVIDENCE THAT, IN FACT,
THAT OLD REFORM WOLF IS ALIVE
AND WELL.
AND IN THE BE PERSONS OF, OF--

Janet says IT'S--

Sean says IT'S TRUE.
I THINK--

Janet says THE LIBERAL PARTY AND THE
CONSEVERTIVE PARTY, THEY BOTH
HAVE MEMBERS THAT HAVE A WIDE
RANGE OF VIEWS ON ISSUES LIKE
ABORTION.

Sean says I'M THINKING OF JOE CLARK,
FOR EXAMPLE, -- FOR EXAMPLE, AS
A RED TORY WHO SAID THAT BEFORE
THIS BEGAN, HE DOESN'T MUCH
LIKE PAUL MARTIN.
BUT HE WOULD PREFER PAUL MARTIN
TO STEPHEN HARPER, BECAUSE HE
WORRIED, SAID JOE CLARK, THAT
THAT RADICAL SORT OF RIGHT WING
FRINGE WAS STILL ALIVE AND VERY
WELL.

Steve says AND--

Sean says AND NOWS THAT MISREADING WHAT STEPHEN SAID.

Steve says NOW SINKKUS IS SUPPORTING SOMEONE ELSE ACTUALLY

Dave says HE'S EVEN GOT HIM OUT SAYING
THAT THIS-- THIS A GUY THAT WE
CAN'T SUPPORT.
THERE'S A LOT OF THE OLD RED
TORIES--

Steve says HE'S--

Sean says I THINK THE NDP, BY THE WAY,
ON THE BUDGET MATTER, I THINK
IF I AGAIN WERE GIVING ADVICE
TO THE FEDERAL LIBERALS, I
WOULD BE SAYING TO MY FEDERAL
FRIENDS, LISTEN, STEPHEN HARPER
IS TELLING THE PEOPLE OF CANADA
THAT HE'S GOING TO CUT YOUR
TAXES SIGNIFICANTLY.
HE IS GOING TO, NOT
ONLY PUT MORE MONEY INTO HEALTH
CARE, BUT HE'S GOING TO LAUNCH
NEW, VERY EXPENSIVE HEALTH
PROGRAMS LIKE PHARMA-CARE.
WELL I HAVE GOT TO TELL YOU, THAT ISN'T GOOD OLE
CONSEARVATIVE LOGIC, THAT'S SOCIAL
CREDIT ARITHMETIC.
2 AND 2 EQUALING 5.

Janet says AND- THAT'S DIFFERENT THEN THE 27 MILLION THAT MARTIN IS
COMING OUT WITH TODAY?-

Steve says WE HAVE TWO OTHER THINGS
WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT TWO OTHER BIG DEVELOPMENTS ON THE PROVINCIAL
SCENE THAT WE WANT TO GET TO.
THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT, YOU MAY
HAVE HEARD, HAS INTRODUCED
LEGISLATION TO TAKE AWAY FROM
FUTURE PREMIERS ONE OF THE MOST
SIGNIFICANT POWERS THEY NOW
HOLD, THE RIGHT TO CALL AN
ELECTION WHENEVER THEY WANT.
PREMIER DALTON MCGUINTY SAYS HE'S
TACKLING THE PROVINCE'S DEMOCRATIC
DEFICIT BY FROM
HERE ON NOW FORWARD FIXING THE
ELECTION DATE.
IT'S GOING TO BE IN OCTOBER EVERY
FOUR YEARS.
NOW, WHILE THAT BILL FULFILLS A
LIBERAL ELECTION PLEDGE, THE
CANADIAN TAXPAYERS' FEDERATION
IS LAUNCHING A COURT CHALLENGE
BECAUSE THE LIBERALS BROKE
ANOTHER PROMISE.
THE FEDERATION IS ACCUSING THE
GRITS OF BREAKING THE LAW BY
BRINGING IN THEIR NEW HEALTH
CARE TAX, AFTER PROMISING NOT
TO RAISE TAXES DURING LAST
FALL'S CAMPAIGN.
JUST WHAT RECOURSE DO WE HAVE
WHEN POLITICIANS BREAK THEIR
WORD?
LET'S WATCH.

A clip shows Dalton Magnet speaking in legislature. He wears a blue
jacket, white shirt and red tie with yellow dashes.

Dalton says THE DECISION OF WHEN TO CALL
AN ELECTION HAS ALWAYS RESTED
WITH THE PREMIER OF THIS
PROVINCE.AND IT ALLOWS THE
GOVERNMENT TO CALL AN ELECTION
WHEN IT FEELS IT CAN WIN.
I, AS PREMIER,
FOREVER RENOUNCING THIS RIGHT.
I'M DOINGING IT FOR ONE
REASON, SPEAKER.
AND ONE REASON ONLY.
BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO
DO.

Many say HEAR, HEAR.
(APPLAUSE)

Steve says ONTARIO'S NEXT
ELECTION WILL BE HELD ON
OCTOBER 4TH, 2007.
MORE CHANGES TO THE PROVINCE'S ELECTORAL SYSTEM ARE
EXPECTED TO BE ANOUNCED THIS FALL.
ALTHOUGH THE LIBERALS SAY
THEY'RE COMMITTED TO REFORMING
DEMOCRACY, OTHERS SAY THEY'RE
NOT PRACTICING WHAT THEY
PREACH.

The caption changes to "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader."

Howard is in his fifties and has white hair and is clean-shaven. He
wears a grey jacket, blue shirt and black and golden-boxed tie.

Howard says IF THIS IS WHAT THE
GOVERNMENT CALLS ADDRESSING THE
DEMOCRATIC DEFICIT, SETTING A
FIXED ELECTION DATE.
I'M SORRY, THAT IS SO MINUTE IN
TERMS OF THE REAL DEMOCRATIC
ISSUES.
IF YOU REALLY RESPECT
DEMOCRACY, RESPECT THE LAWS.
RESPECT THE DOCUMENTS YOU
SIGNED.

A slate appears with a document that reads "Taxpayer Protection
Promise." A fast clip shows people signing the document then a
liberal standing at a podium that is labeled "Ontario Budget."

Steve says THAT DOCUMENT IS THE
PLEDGE SIGNED BY MCGUINTY LAST
FALL, PROMISE TO GO UPHOLD THE
TAXPAYER'S PROTECTION ACT,
WHICH PROHIBITS RAISING TAXES
WITHOUT HOLDING A REFRN DULL.
THE LIBERALS BROKE THAT PROMISE
IN THE MAY 18TH BUDGET BY
INTRODUCING THE ONTARIO HEALTH
PREMIUM, AMONG OTHER NEW TAXES.
A DECISION THAT HAS SPARKED
VOTER ANGER.

A man on the street is in his fifties and has grey hair and a grey
moustache and wears a grey suit.

The Man on the street says THESE GUYS ARE UNETHICAL.
IT'S IMPROPER.
IT'S, IT'S ILLEGAL.
AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND IT TO
BE.
IT'S-- IT'S, UM, IT'S AN
INDICATION THAT-- THAT WE'RE
LIVING IN A-- IN AN ENVIRONMENT
WHERE ELECTED POLITICIANS HAVE
NO ETHICS.

A woman on the street has glasses, brown wavy hair and wears a blue
sweater.

The Woman on the street says HE'S TERRIBLE.
THE TAXES WENT SO UP.
AND I'M NOT AGREEING WITH THAT.
BECAUSE, BECAUSE, THE SALARIES DON'T GO UP--
JUST THE TAXES AND
THE FOOD AND EVERYTHING.

Second woman on the street is in her thirties and has short brown
hair with fringe. She wears glasses and a grey tweed jacket.

The Second Woman on the street says IT'S NOT FAIR.
WE'RE ALREADY PAYING TAXES.
THERE ARE CUTBACKS AND NOTHING
IS HAPPENING.
NOT LIKE MY SERVICES ARE IMPROVING.

On the screen a caption reads, "Do you think they should have a
referendum and figure out if this is what people want?

The Interviewer asks DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD
HAVE A REFERENDUM AND FIGURE
OUT IF THIS IS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT?

The Second Woman says MY QUESTION THEN WOULD BE,
IS IT MONEY WELL SPENT?
FOR WHAT?
I WOULD RATHER VOTE AT THIS--
OUT THIS PARTICULAR GOVERNMENT
AND HAD HOPEFULLY GET SOMETHING
BETTER.
THAT WOULD REPEAL THOSE TAXES.

Steve says THE CANADIAN TAX--
TAXPAYER FEDERATION SAYS THAT
MCGUINTY HAS NOT ONLY BROKEN A PROMISE HE HAS BROKEN
THE LAW.
THEY'RE TAKING THE PREMIER AND
THE FINANCE MINISTER TO COURT.

The caption changes to "Tasha Kheiriddin. Canadian Taxpayers
Federation."

Tasha appears in an office she is in her thirties and has a short
bob hair cut with blonde hair and she wears a grey jacket.

Tasha says WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANY
DAMAGES.
WE'RE JUST SIMPLY ASKING FOR THE LAW TO BE
UPHELD.
THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THE
GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE TO
WITHDRAWAL THE HEALTH TAX FROM
THE BUDGET.
AND, AND EITHER HOLD A
REFERENDUM OR WITHDRAWAL IT
COMPLETELY.
PEOPLE ARE JUST FED UP WITH
POLITICIAN WHO LIE.
THEY WANT TO HOLD THEM
ACCOUNTABLE.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE MECHANISMS
FOR DOING SO.

Steve says BUT OPPOSITION CRITICS SAY
HE THEY KNOW HOW DISGRUNTLED
VOTERS CAN MAKE THEIR VOICES
HEARD.

The caption changes to "John Baird. PC Finance Critic."

John says THROW THEM OUT.
THROW THE BUMS OUT AT THE NEXT
ELECTION.

John says WE INVITE PEOPLE TO SIGN THE
PETITIONS AND WE INVITE PEOPLE TO
CIRCULATE PETITIONS THEMSELVES.
WE INVITE PEOPLE TO WRITE TO THE EDITOR OF YOUR
NEWSPAPER.
GET ON THE OPEN-LINE RADIO
SHOWS.

Steve says BUT MCGUINTY STILL
DEFENDS HIS GOVERNMENT'S BUDGET

Dalton says THE HIP PREMIUM IS NOT AN
EASY DECISION.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I
EXPECT WILL CAUSE THOSE IN
ONTARIO TO TURN CARTWHEELS IN
THE STREETS.
BUT IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

Steve says OKAY.
TWO TISSUE TO GET INTO.
THE LAWSUIT AGAINST THE
GOVERNMENT BY THE TAXPAYER'S
FEDERATION COMING IN A MOMENT.
BUT FIRST, LETS GET INTO THE ISSUE OF FIXED
ELECTION DATES.
SEAN, DO YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF
NOT NECESSARILY FIXING
ELECTIONS, WHICH I
ASSUME YOU'RE AGAINST, BUT
FIXING ELECTION DATES?

Sean says WELL I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE APPEAL OF
FIXED DATE ELECTIONS.
BUT I DON'T PERSONALLY LIKE THE
IDEA.
I THINK I SAID THAT ON THIS
SHOW.

Steve says YOU SAID IT MANY
TIMES.
HOW COME?

Sean says WELL I JUST THINK THAT THERE ARE
CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ANY
GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO FACE.
THAT THERE IS FLEXIBILITY IN OUR
SYSTEM CONSTITUTIONALLY.
IN THE BRITISH SYSTEM, YOU HAVE A
FIVE-YEAR MANDATE.
WE'VE SEEN ALL KIND OF
EXAMPLESS-- WHERE
COMPLETELY UNEXPECTED
DEVELOPMENTS OCCUR.
THAT GOVERNMENTS BOTH WANT AND
NEED THE FLEXIBILITY.
BUT, LISTEN, I'M UNDOUBTEDLY A
MINORITY.
WE'VE GOT TO HAVE REFORM.
APPARENTLY FIXED DATE ELECTIONS
IT IS.
SO I'M PREPARED TO BE A
DISCENTER.

Steve says IF JUST GO BACK TO ONE MORE TIME ABOUT THIS. THEY
DIDN'T
POSTPONE THE MUNCIPAL ELECTIONS IN
NEW YORK AFTER 9/11.
I CAN'T THINK OF A BIGGER
DISASTER‚ THAT ANY JURISDICTION WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH,
IF THEY CAN GO AHEAD WITH A MUNICIPAL ELECTION AFTER AN EVENT LIKE
WHAT COULD HAPPEN HERE THAT MIGHT FORCE
US TO HAVE A FIXED DATE?

Sean says WELL LISTEN WE'VE HAD EXTRAORDINARY EXAMPLES WHERE WE HAD
TO AGREE TO EXTEND THE LIFE OF PARLIAMENT, TYPICALLY WAR TIME.

Steve says NOT IN 50 YEARS.

Sean says WELL THAT'S TRUE.
BUT WE HAVE DONE IT.
BUT I JUST THINK THAT
GOVERNMENTS, AND THIS MAY BE A
PRO GOVERNMENT BIAS.
BUT I THINK THAT THE REALITY IS
THAT GOVERNMENT HAS TO FACE AND
TO CONTEMPLATE FACING A LOT OF
CIRCUMSTANCES THAT COULD NOT BE
IMAGINED AND THAT I WAS GIVING
ADVICE, AND I DID TO MY
COLLEAGUES, THIS IS NOT A REFORM
I WOULD RECOMMEND.
BUT, LISTEN, I UNDERSTAND THAT
SOME ARGUMENTS I'M GOING TO
LOSE.
THIS ONE I HAVE LOST.

Steve says JANET, LET ME ASK YOU
A FEW THINGS, PART OF THE IDEA BEHIND
THIS IS TO LOWER THE CYNICISM
IN PUBLIC.
BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE CLOSER WE
GET TO SPECULATION ABOUT
ELECTION DATES, EVERYTHING GETS
SILLY.
DO YOU THINK THAT WILL ACHIEVE
THAT?

Janet says NO.
I DON'T AGREE WITH SETTING
ELECTION DATES LIKE THIS,
EITHER.
IT'S TAMPERING WITH THE
PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY
THE TRADITIONS OF A
PARAMENTERY DEMOCRACY.
I AGREE WITH SEAN THAT IT GIVES
THE GOVERNMENTS FLEXIBILITY
THAT THEY SOMETIMES THEY MAY NEED.
IT'S AN AMERICANIZATION OF
POLITICS.
THAT I FIND KIND OF IRONIC THAT
THE GOVERNMENT THAT LIKES TO
CRITICISIZE THAT IS NOW DOING
THAT TO OUR POLITICS HERE.
AND ITS NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY BEARING FOR
A VOTER ON WHETHER THEY'RE
CYNICAL OR NOT.
THE POLITICAL GAME
IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT
THAT WILL BEGIN BEFORE OCTOBER
THE 4TH, AND
BEFORE AN ANTICIPATED ELECTION
CALL SO MANY IF YOU ARE REALLY
GOING TO DO, UM, DO SOMETHING
FUNDAMENTAL ABOUT DEMOCRATIC
REFORM, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT
HOW TO GET QUALIFIED PEOPLE.
MAYBE MORE WOMEN.
MAYBE PROPORTIONAL
REPRESENTATION IS THE WAY TO
GO ABOUT THIS?
ALL KIND OF THINGS
THAT YOU CAN DO THAT HAVE MORE
IMPACT THAN SETTING THE
ELECTION DATE IF IT WAS SUCH
A GREAT, GREAT TOOL FOR
LEADERS, TO CHOOSE THE DATE AND
THE PREMIER MADE IT SOUND LIKE
HE WAS GIVING UP THIS
INCREDIBLE RIGHT, I MEAN IT,
WOULD HAVE WORKED FOR ERNIE
EVES.
IT WOULD HAVE WORKED FOR-- IT'S
NOT WORKING FOR PAUL MARTIN.
WOULD HAVE WORKED FOR BOB RAE, FRANK RAY
AND DAVID PETERSON-- PETERSON.
IT'S AN IRRELEVANT FACT, QUITE
FRANKLY.

Steve says DAVE WHAT DO YOU
THINK?

Dave says I THINK IT'S A GIMMICK.
UM, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY
STRONG FEELINGS EITHER WAY.

Steve says IT DOESN'T ADDRESS
THE DEMOCRATIC DEFICIT?

Dave says NO AND I THINK THE POLITICAL
PARTIES ARE SPENDING TOO MUCH
TIME RIGHT NOW ABOUT
TALKING ABOUT HOW PEOPLE GET
ELECTED, WHETHER IT'S
PROPORTIONAL AND WHETHER IT'S
THE ELECTION DATES INSTEAD OF
WHAT WE DO WITH POLITICIANS
WHAT THEY'RE ELECTED IN THE
LEGISLATURE AND EMPOWERING
THEM, UM, WHETHER IT'S, IT'S,
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, STAFFING,...
AND
PROVIDING FOR--

Steve says THEY HAVE TALKED
ABOUT THAT.
THIS GROUP SAYS THERE'S NO BACK
BENCH.
EVERYONE'S GOING TO BE A PARLIAMENTARY ASSISTANT AND GET
SWORN IN

Dave says WELL I THINK THAT TOO IS A GIMMIC
AND THAT ACTUALLY WORKS COUNTER TO
THE KIND OF ACCOUNTABILITY THE LEGISLATURES
ARE TRYING TO HOLD
THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH
ACCOUNTABLE.
WE DON'T DO THAT.
PARTLY BECAUSE OF HOW WE FUND
IT AND PARTLY BECAUSE WE DON'T
HAVE ENOUGH INDEPENDENT STAFF.
AND I THINK THAT THE POLITICAL
PARTY SHOULD TURN THEIR HEAD
AROUND TO WHAT WE DO ONCE
PEOPLE ARE ELECTED.

Steve says I THINK IN
SOME RESPECTS, DO THEY GET
CREDIT FOR THIS IDEA-- IS
SO MANY FIRST MINISTERS IN THE
PAST WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY
BEING CRITICIZED FOR PICKING
THE WRONG TIME TO CALL AN
ELECTION, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO
BE THEIR BIG ADVANTAGE.
THIS TAKES THAT AWAY.
YOU CAN'T BLAME A FIRST
MINISTER NOW FOR SCREWING UP
THE TIMING OF THE CALL, BECAUSE
IT WILL BE FIXED IN STONE.

Sean says THAT'S RIGHT.
AND LET ME BE CLEAR, DALTON MCGUINTY
MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE WANTED TO
DO THIS.
IT'S A PROMISE KEPT OF THE
PUBLIC, THE LITERATURE, AND
I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT IT, I'AM
TEACHING A COURSE IN DEMOCRATIC
REFORM DOWN IN QUEEN'S
UNIVERSITYS AND-- AND THIS IS
ONE OF THE SUBJECTS WE'VE BEEN
LOOKING AT.
THE MOST RECENT POLLING DATA SUGGESTS THAT
A VERY SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF CANADIANS LIKE THIS.
WE MAY FEEL, AND OBVIOUSLY WE DO
DO, WE'RE QUITE LUKE WARM.
BUT TO HIS CREDIT,
DALTON MCGUINTY SAID I'M GOING TO DO
THIS.
ELECT ME.
THIS WILL BE A PROMISE I HAVE MADE AND
HE'S KEPT IT.
AND THE PUBLIC CLEARLY LIKES IT.

Steve says OKAY IN OUR LAST FEW MINUTES PROMISE MADE PROMISE
KEPT.
LET'S MOVE ON TO PROMISE MADE,
PROMISE DEFINITELY NOT KEPT.
THE TAXPAYERS' FEDERATION IS
SUING THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT
FOR BREAKING THE LAW.
BECAUSE THEY HAVE RAISED TAXES,
GONE BACK ON THEIR WORD.
WITHOUT CALLING A REFERENDUM.
WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED
TO DO ACCORDING TO THE
TAXPAYER PROTECTION ACT.
NOW THE GOVERNMENT PASSED A LAW
SAYING WE'RE ALLOWED TO BREAK
THE LAW.
YOU GUYS DID IT, TOO.
UM, DO YOU THINK THE LIBERALS
HAVE BROKEN THE LAW IN THIS
CASE?

Janet says WELL I THINK IN THIS CASE WELL
THEY
HAVE CERTAINLY BROKEN THE LAW,
AND THEY HAVE--

Steve says IF YOU PASS
A LAW SAYING YOU'RE ALLOWED TO BREAK A LAW,
YOU BREAK THE LAW.

Janet says EVERY GOVERNMENT HAS A RIGHT
TO CHANGE LAWS.
YOU CAN GET CUTE WITH IT, I
THINK WHAT THE TAX FEDERATION
IS DOING IS A VERY GOOD POLITICAL
TRICK.
IT GIVES THEM A LOT OF COVERAGE PUTS A FOCUS ON THIS ISSUE-- THAT IS
DAMAGING TO
THE GOVERNMENT.
BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF IT'S
GOING TO HAVE MUCH
TRACTION IN THE COURT.
BUT I THINK WE LEAVE IT TO THE VOTERS
TO MAKE THEIR JUDGEMENT COME
ELECTION DAY, WHETHER OR NOT
THEY AGREE WITH THIS GOVERNMENT
IN THE WAY THEY'VE DONE IT.
I THINK THAT GOVERNMENTS IS
HAVE THE RIGHT TO-- TO, YOU
WILL, YOU KNOW, THEY DID PUT
OUT THE PLATFORM.
THIS GOVERNMENT BUILT A
PLATFORM AND THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW
IT AND STOOD UP AND SAID TO THE
VOTERS HERE'S WHY.
I THINK ON OCTOBER 4TH, 2007,
THE VOTERS WILL MAKE THEIR
CONCLUSION.

Steve says SOME VOTERS WANT TO
KNOW WHY THEY HAVE TO WAIT THAT
LONG.
WHY DO THEY HAVE TO WAIT, WHEN A GOVERNMENT BREAKS IS
WORD SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS INTO
THE MANDATE, WHY DO THEY HAVE
TO WAIT THREE OR FOUR YEARS TO
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

Dave says THAT'S THE WAY THE SYSTEM
IS.
GENERALLY WE'RE SUPPOSED TO
LOOK AT THE LIFE OF THE
GOVERNMENT AND HOW THEY
PERFORMED OVER THAT ENTIRE
TIME.
WE COULD BRING IN RECALL
LEGISLATION LIKE THEY HAVE IN
CALIFORNIA AND--

Steve says DO YOU LIKE THAT?

Dave says NO.
I THINK IT'S TOTALLY
DESTRUCTIVE.
THEY GOT IT IN B.C., TOO.
IT'S NEVER USED FOR THAT KIND
OF PURPOSE.
IT'S USED BY POLITICAL PARTIES
OR INTEREST GROUPS TO GO AFTER
A PARTICULAR MPP.
UM, AND-- BUT I MEAN, I THINK
THAT-- UM THAT, THE
GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE HONEST.
INSTEAD OF AMENDING THE
LEGISLATION, AS THESE GUYS DID,
UM, THEY SHOULD SCRAP IT.
THE LAW DOESN'T WORK.

Steve says NO ONE CAN LIVE BY
IT.

Dave says NOBODY'S GOING TO GO LIVE BY
IT.
WHY GIVE THE PRETENSE THAT
YOU'RE GOING TO LIVE BY IT AND
THAT IT'S A GOOD PIECE OF
LEGISLATION.
IT'S FAULTY LEGISLATION.
AND IT SHOULD BE SCRAPPED.

Janet says THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES
HERE.
TWO DIFFERENT PIECES OF
LEGISLATION.
THERE'S THE BALANCED BUDGET
LEGISLATION.
WHICH WE DID NOT SCRAP.
WE DID NOT YOU AMEND.
WE ABIDED BY THAT THERE'S THE
TAXPAYER--

Dave says PART OF A PACKAGE.

Janet says ALL RIGHT.
BUT TWO PIECES OF LEGISLATION
HERE.
HE SIGNED, I MEAN MCGUINTY DID SIGN A
PLEDGE.
HE MADE A BIG POINT OF IT--
AND HE GOT A BIG POLITICAL
BENEFIT OF IT.
AND AT THE END OF THE DAY,
MAYBE THE VOTERS WILL ACCEPT IT
IN 2007.
BUT HE SETUP THE CIRCUMSTANCE.

Sean says LET ME JUST SAY THIS, LET THIS BE A CAUTIONARY
TALE FOR EVERYBODY IN POLITICS
TODAY.
BECAUSE CLEARLY WE HAVE A
DIFFERENT KIND OF VOTER.
THERE IS A CREDIBILITY GAP.
BECAUSE THE VOTER IS-- IS BETTER
INFORMED, LESS PATIENT TO-- TO
UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE NUANCE
AND SOME OF THE PRESSURES THAT
ALL GOVERNMENTS AND ALL
ELECTED OFFICIALS FACE.
I WOULD SAY TO THE TAXPAYER'S
COALITION, I'AM GLAD THEY
NEVER HAD TO MEET FRANKLIN ROOSVELT OR ABRAHAM LINCOLN OR MCKENZIE
KING OR ANY
OF THE GREAT LEGENDARY LEADERS
OF THEIR TIME.
BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT?
LIFE IS NOT AS PREDICTABLE AS
YOU WOULD LIKE IT TO BE.
YES THE POLITICIANS
SHOULD BE CAREFUL.
MORE CAREFUL PERHAPS THAN, THAN
ALL OF US HAVE BEEN IN THE
PAST.
BUT I WANT TO SAY TO THE
TAXPAYERS' COALITION, WHO ARE
ESSENTIALLY AN ANTI-GOVERNMENT
LOBBY GROUP THAT THE PUBLIC OUT
THERE IS NOT STUPID, EITHER.
THEY KNOW THAT THE WORLD IS
MORE COMPLICATED AND--

Steve says 110,000 PEOPLE HAVE
SIGNED A PETITION-- IN A
PROVINCE OF 12 MILLION, RIGHT.
I JUST SIMPLY WANT TO SAY--

Janet says THEY'RE NOT DONE YET.

Sean says I'M SURE THERE WILL BE LOTS
OF PETITIONS AND YOU KNOW WHAT?
IT MAY VERY WELL BE AT THE END
OF THE DAY THIS MAY BE AN
INSURMOUNTABLE PROBLEM.
BUT I REPEAT WOODROW WILSON, FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, BILL DAVIS, PIERRE
TRUDEAU--

Janet WHO STANDS UP FOR THE TAXPAYER, SEAN?

Sean says WELL YOU KNOW THE TAXPAYER IS-I THINK IF YOU WANT TO PUT
THE TAXPAYER POSITION OF MEN AND WOMEN OF GOOD INTENT
AND INTELLIGENCE DON'T ADMIT TO
THE FACT THAT SOMETIMES THE WORLD CHANGES
WHEN WOODROW WILSON PROMISED THE UNITED
STATES THAT HE WOULDN'T TAKE
THEM TO WAR--

Janet says WOODROW WILSON WAS TERRIFIC
AND ALL WONDERFUL.
BUT TODAY IS 2004 AND--

Dave says WHY DOES THE PROMISE, WHY DOES THE PROMISE ON
TAXES, AND DEFICITS HOLD SO
MUCH MORE WEIGHT THAN PROMISES
ON HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION
AND--

Janet says I DON'T THINK IT DOES.

Steve says 15 SECONDS TO ANSWER.

Janet says LISTEN, I THINK ALL
POLITICIANS HAVE TO BE VERY
CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT THEY
PROMISE, BECAUSE CREDIBILITY IS
YOUR, YOUR, UM, YOUR-- WHAT YOU
HAVE TO SELL.

Steve says IT'S THE COIN OF THE REALM.

Janet says IT'S THE COIN OF THE REALM.
REASON WE HAVE CYNICISM IS
BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS BEEN TOO
CARELESS-- CARELESS WITH IT AND
NOT ABIDED BY IT.

Sean says I THINK NEXT WEEK THE ISSUE SHOULD BE
BILL DAVIS AND SEPARATE
SCHOOLS, NEED I SAY MORE.
MY OLD FRIEND BILL DAVIS AND
SEPARATE SCHOOLS.

Janet says DALTON MCGNITY AND NO MORE TAXES.

Steve says HOLD THAT THOUGHT WE WILL COME TO IT NEXT WEEK VERY
INTERESTING
THOUGHT.
THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING THIS
WEEK, SEAN CONWAY, JANET
ECKER AND DAVE COOKE. -- THIS WEEK, AND THAT'S FOURTH READING FOR
THIS WEEK, I AM STEVE PAIKIN UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY, THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue
the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TV Ontario. Copyright 2002, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Voter Anger