Transcript: David Frum on An End To Evil | Mar 06, 2004

David Frum sits at a podium with a jug of water and a glass. A cream coloured stage curtain hangs in drapes behind him. He is in his forties with short brown hair and wears a blue suit and a brown and beige striped tie over a white shirt.

David says IT WAS ALMOST
EXACTLY A YEAR AGO THAT I WAS
LAST IN HOLY BLOSSOM, WHICH IS,
COME TO THINK OF IT, THE RECORD
THAT MANY MEMBERS OF HOLY
BLOSSOM SAT.
[Audience laughter]
BUT THEN I LIVE 500 MILES AWAY,
SO I HAVE AN EXCUSE.

A yellow caption appears on screen featuring the shining lamp bulb logo. It reads "David Frum... Author, "An End to Evil." Holy Blossom Temple, Toronto, January 12, 2004."

David continues I'M REMINDED OF A
PLAY THAT WAS POPULAR IN MY
YOUTH, "SAME TIME NEXT YEAR,"
AND I'D LIKE TO UNDERTAKE TO BE
HERE NEXT YEAR.
IF YOU WILL ALL BE HERE NEXT
YEAR, I WILL ENDEAVOUR TO HAVE A BOOK.
[applause]
ALTHOUGH MY CHILDREN NOW REGARD THE WORD,
"BOOK," THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE'S
CHILDREN REGARD WORDS LIKE
"DETENTION"... THAT IT IS JUST A
SYNONYM FOR "NO FUN."
IT'S BEEN A BUSY YEAR, A LOT HAS
HAPPENED, DRAMATIC WAR IN THE
MIDDLE EAST, WAR THAT OPENS THE
POWER TO DEMOCRATIC TRANSITION
OF LEADERSHIP IN THE MOST
IMPORTANT ARAB COUNTRY IN THE
MIDDLE EAST, AND THERE HAVE BEEN
SOME EVENTS, IMPORTANT POLITICAL
EVENTS IN CANADA THAT ALSO OPEN
THE POSSIBILITY OF DEMOCRATIC
TRANSITIONS OF LEADERSHIP.
[applause and laughter]
AND UM, I DON'T KNOW, IT'S GOING
TO BE AN INTERESTING QUESTION,
WHICH COMES FIRST, THE IRAQI
ELECTION OR THE CANADIAN
ELECTION, THAT WILL BE UH...
IT'S BEEN AN INTERESTING YEAR
FOR ME, TOO, BECAUSE I'VE HAD TO
ACCEPT SOME THINGS THAT FOR ME
ARE DIFFICULT TO ACCEPT.
I WORKED... I HAD THE WONDERFUL
EXPERIENCE OF WORKING WITH
RICHARD PERLE, WHICH IS A NAME
THAT WILL BE KNOWN TO MANY OF
YOU, ON THIS BOOK.
RICHARD PERLE IS, OF COURSE ONE
OF THE MOST FAMOUS OF THAT GROUP
OF PEOPLE, KNOWN IN THE UNITED
STATES AS NEO-CONSERVATIVES.
I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN RIGHT
WING CONSERVATIVE POLITICS IN
THE UNITED STATES FOR 20-PLUS
YEARS, AND IN ALL THAT TIME, I
HAVE ALWAYS REBELLED AGAINST AND
CHAFED AGAINST THE WORD NEO-
CONSERVATIVE, FOR IDEOLOGICAL
REASONS THAT ARE TOO ABSTRUSE
AND REALLY BORING TO GO INTO
HERE, BUT THE POINT IS, I'VE
NEVER LIKED THE WORD, AND ALWAYS
REJECTED IT.
BUT, WHEN YOU WRITE A BOOK WITH
RICHARD PERLE, YOU JUST HAVE TO
MAKE YOUR PEACE, IT'S GOING TO
BE APPLIED TO YOU, AND SO MY NEW
APPROACH IS SUMMED UP IN A JOKE
THAT IS ONE OF MY FAVOURITE JOKES.
IT'S QUITE A LONG JOKE, I'LL
ABBREVIATE IT.
A MAN IS STANDING ON THE TRAIN
PLATFORM OF DARIEN, CONNECTICUT,
READING THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
ON HIS WAY INTO NEW YORK CITY,
AND A WOMAN COMES UP TO HIM, AN
ELDERLY WOMAN COMES UP TO HIM
AND SORT OF TUGS AT HIS VERY
WELL CUT SUIT ELBOW, AND SAYS TO
HIM, "MISTER, I'M SORRY TO
TROUBLE YOU, BUT DO YOU MIND IF
I ASK A PERSONAL QUESTION?"
AND HE GRUNTS AT HER, AND SHE
SAYS, "SO MISTER, ARE YOU JEWISH?"
AND HE SAYS, "UH, MADAME, AS A
MATTER OF FACT, NO, NO I'M NOT JEWISH."
AND SHE SAYS, "YOU'RE QUITE SURE
YOU'RE NOT JEWISH."
AND HE SAYS, "MADAME, I'M NOT JEWISH."
SHE SAYS "POSITIVE?"
HE SAYS "MADAME, I'M COMPLETELY POSITIVE."
(pause)
93 ITERATIONS OF THIS.
"MADAME, I ASSURE YOU, I'VE THE
GREATEST RESPECT AND ADMIRATION
FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE, IF I WERE
JEWISH, I WOULD CERTAINLY SAY
SO, IT JUST SO HAPPENS I'M THE
VESTRYMAN OF THE FIRST EPISCOPAL
CHURCH OF DARIEN, AND FINALLY,
ON THE 93rd ITERATION, HE GOES
COMPLETELY BONKERS, AND SIMPLY
GOES BACK TO HIS PAPER, AND
SAYS, "ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT,
HAVE IT YOUR WAY, I AM JEWISH."
AND THE PUNCH LINE, WHICH YOU'VE
NO DOUBT HEARD COMING LIKE THE
TRAIN COMING DOWN THE TRACK, IS,
"FUNNY, YOU DON'T LOOK JEWISH."
[Audience laughter]
AND I FEEL SAME WAY ABOUT
BECOMING A NEO-CONSERVATIVE.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE A NEO-
CONSERVATIVE, BUT THERE IT IS, I
AM ONE. UM... (pause)
AMONG THE EVENTS OF THE PAST
YEAR WAS THIS WAR IN IRAQ, ABOUT
WHICH SO MUCH PASSION HAS RAGED,
AND ABOUT WHICH THERE ARE SO
MANY THINGS TO SAY.
A LOT OF MY FEELING ABOUT THE
IRAQ WAR AND ITS POSSIBILITIES,
IS SUMMED UP IN THIS STORY.
YOU KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
IT WAS VERY WISE TO SAY, WAS
THAT IT IS JUST SIMPLY
IMPOSSIBLE, FANTASTIC TO IMAGINE
THAT DEMOCRATIC SELF-GOVERNMENT
COULD EVER COME TO A MIDDLE
EASTERN COUNTRY.
WELL, I DON'T PURPORT TO BE AN
EXPERT ON IRAQ OR ARAB CULTURE
OR ANY OF THOSE THINGS, SO I
JUST DON'T KNOW.
BUT HERE'S THE STORY THAT MAYBE
PUTS IT INTO SOME CONTEXT.
THE UM, LEADER OF THE IRAQI
RESISTANCE, THE IRAQI NATIONAL
CONGRESS, IS A MAN NAMED AHMED
CHALABI, A NAME MANY OF YOU MAY
HAVE HEARD.

A brief shot shows keen interest on the part of two elderly educated-looking men in the audience.

David continues AND AHMED CHALABI COMES FROM ONE
OF THE OLDEST FAMILIES IN IRAQ,
A LANDHOLDING FAMILY.
THEY HAVE BEEN ADVISORS TO
RULERS OF IRAQ, THEY WERE
INVOLVED IN THE TURKISH
PARLIAMENT 100 YEARS AGO.
THEY WERE EXPROPRIATED,
DISPOSSESSED, SENT INTO EXILE.
AHMED CHALABI THEN DID A PhD IN
MATHEMATICS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
CHICAGO, AND HAD A VERY
SUCCESSFUL CAREER.
GOT INTO SOME TROUBLE WITH
JORDAN, WHEN JORDAN HAD A
RAPPROCHEMENT WITH IRAQI AUTHORITIES.
THEY CLOSED HIS BANK AND ACCUSED
HIM OF FRAUD, ALTHOUGH IT WAS
NEVER PROVEN, AND HE'S NOT A RICH MAN.
BUT HE HAS AN APARTMENT IN
LONDON, YOU COULD GO SEE HIM...
OR YOU COULD, IN THOSE DAYS, GO
SEE HIM.
AND, BUT THE PROBLEM WAS, YOU
HAD TO GO SEE HIM AT MIDNIGHT,
BECAUSE HE KEPT SORT OF
REVOLUTIONARY HOURS... FIDEL
CASTRO HOURS.
SO I REMEMBER BEING IN LONDON,
AND BEING TAKEN TO SEE HIM AT
MIDNIGHT OR 1 IN THE MORNING.
WE STAYED IN HIS APARTMENT TILL
3 IN THE MORNING.
AND AT THE END OF THE HOURS, I
SAID TO HIM AS WE WERE GOING, I
SAID, "LET ME, AT THE END OF
THIS EVENING, ASK YOU THE MOST
OBVIOUS QUESTION, WHICH IS, DO
YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE?
DO YOU THINK IRAQ COULD EVER
HAVE THE KIND OF GOVERNMENT YOU DESCRIBE?
HE SAID, "I WANT TO SHOW YOU A PICTURE."
HE TOOK ME INTO SORT OF A LITTLE
STUDY HE HAD, UM, WITH SORT OF
PICTURE BOOKS IN IT.
HE PULLED OUT AN ALBUM, AND HE
OPENED UP A PICTURE.
AND THERE'S A VERY...
ONE OF THOSE RICH OLD PICTURES
THEY USED TO TAKE 50 YEARS AGO.
IT WAS BLACK AND WHITE, BUT THE
TONES WERE VERY INTENSE, AND
THERE ARE SEVEN MIDDLE AGED MEN,
ALL WEARING WESTERN SUITS,
DOUBLED BREASTED AND TIES, AND
SOME OF THEM WEARING FEZS.
AND HE SAID, "THE ONE IN THE
MIDDLE IS MY FATHER, AND THIS IS
THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE
IRAQ SUGAR REFINING COMPANY,"
WHICH, AT THE TIME THIS PICTURE
WAS TAKEN, WAS THE LARGEST
PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY IN THE
MIDDLE EAST.
"NOW AS I SAID, THIS IS THE BOARD
OF DIRECTORS.
MY FATHER IS IN THE MIDDLE, AND
HE IS A SHIITE MUSLIM, AND THESE
TWO MEN ON EITHER SIDE WERE ALSO
SHIITE MUSLIMS, AND THIS FELLOW
OVER HERE WAS CHRISTIAN, AND
THIS MAN OVER HERE WAS JEWISH,"
AND HE SAID, "I THINK WHAT IS
VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT
THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN WITHIN
JUST A VERY FEW WEEKS OF THE
WANNSEE CONFERENCE IN BERLIN."
AND IF THE GERMANS OF 1942 COULD
BECOME A MULTI-PARTY DEMOCRACY,
I'M A LITTLE BIT AT A LOSS TO
UNDERSTAND WHY THE IRAQIS OF
TODAY ARE THOUGHT TO BE
INCAPABLE OF IT.
IT'S JUST A THOUGHT.
BUT IT IS CERTAINLY TRUE THAT
THIS WAR...
THIS MAY BE THE FIRST EXAMPLE OF
A WAR THAT HAS BECOME MORE
CONTROVERSIAL AFTER IT WAS WON
THAN BEFORE IT WAS FOUGHT.
NORMALLY WARS...
TO BE CONTROVERSIAL, WARS
NORMALLY HAVE TO DO THINGS, THEY
HAVE TO END IN DEFEAT... WELL
THIS WAR ENDED IN STUNNING
SUCCESS FOR THE COALITION SIDE.
THEY HAVE TO
SOMETIMES INVOLVE ATROCITIES.
BUT THE ONLY ATROCITIES THAT WE
KNOW OF IN IRAQ ARE THE 300,000
BODIES THAT HAVE BEEN UNCOVERED
IN UNMARKED GRAVES SINCE THE END
OF THE WAR.
I REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ACTUALLY
WRITING THIS BOOK THIS SUMMER,
THERE WAS THIS PASSAGE WHERE I
SAID I WANT TO REFER TO THE
NUMBER OF PEOPLE, OF BODIES THAT
HAVE BEEN FOUND.
AND WE DIDN'T HAVE A REALLY GOOD
FIX ON IT, AND I WAS SAYING TO
RICHARD, PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH
PEOPLE WHO CAN HELP ME WITH THIS NUMBER.
SO I WAS TALKING TO PEOPLE FROM
THE I.N.C., AND AT THAT POINT,
THEY HAD OPENED SOME SITES, AND
THEY HAD SAID...
AND AT THAT POINT THEY HAD
COUNTED SOMETHING LIKE 40,000
BODIES, AND I SAID, "WELL THIS
NUMBER WILL OBVIOUSLY RISE."
AND HE SAID, "WELL OUR --."
HE SAID, "OUR ESTIMATE OF THE
RANGE IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN
100,000 AND 300,000 BODIES WILL
ULTIMATELY BE FOUND."
AND HE SAID, "AND I WOULD
RECOMMEND THAT IF YOU'RE GOING
WITH ONE NUMBER, GO WITH THE
NUMBER ON THE HIGH END OF THE
RANGE OF ESTIMATE."
SO I SORT OF SUCKED IN MY
BREATH, BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE TO
USE NUMBERS IN THIS WAY, AND WE
PUT IT IN THE BOOK, 300,000, AND
BEFORE PUB DATE, THE AMERICAN
AUTHORITIES HAD CONFIRMED
300,000 BODIES FOUND, PERHAPS
MORE TO BE FOUND.
UM... (pause)
IT WAS A WAR THAT ENDED IN
VICTORY, IT WAS A WAR WHERE ALL
THE ATROCITIES WERE COMMITTED BY
THE LOSING SIDE, IT WAS A WAR IN
WHICH EVERY PREDICTION OF
DISASTER OF THE PEOPLE WHO
OPPOSED THE WAR WAS PROVEN FALSE.
THERE WERE NO REFUGEE FLOWS,
THERE WERE NO FAMINES, THERE
WERE NO OIL FIELDS ON FIRE,
THERE WAS NO ECOLOGICAL DISASTER.
WITHIN DAYS OF THE AMERICAN
OCCUPATION OF BAGHDAD, THE IRAQI
DINAR ROSE AGAINST THE U.S. DOLLAR.
IT IS THE ONLY MILITARY DEFEAT
IN HISTORY THAT WAS A POSITIVE
EVENT FOR THE DEFEATED COUNTRY'S CURRENCY.
AND THE REASON IT WAS POSITIVE,
WAS BECAUSE THEY HAD ISSUED ALL
OF THESE INFLATIONARY DINARS AND
THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS...
WITH SADDAM'S PICTURES ON THEM,
AND THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS, WHO
ARE NOT LAVISHLY PAID, BUT WHO
ARE A LOT BETTER PAID THAN THE
IRAQIS, SENSING THAT THIS MONEY
WOULD SOON DISAPPEAR, USED THEIR
DOLLARS TO BUY THIS MONEY AS SOUVENIRS.
AND THE INFLUX OF AMERICAN
DOLLARS PURCHASING IRAQI DINARS,
CAUSED THE DINAR TO RISE ON THE
IRAQI INTERNAL MONEY MARKET.
IT IS AGAIN, AN UNPRECEDENTED
EVENT, PROBABLY IN THE HISTORY
OF FINANCE AND IN THE HISTORY OF
WARFARE, BOTH.
AND YET IT REMAINS
CONTROVERSIAL, AND THE QUESTION
THAT IS ASKED AGAIN AND AGAIN
AND AGAIN, ARE THE WEAPONS OF
MASS DESTRUCTION.
I HOPE YOU WILL FORGIVE ME IF I
TELL YOU THAT THIS QUESTION, SO
DEBATED, SO INTENSELY
CONSIDERED, A QUESTION THAT HAS
ROCKED THE GOVERNMENT OF GREAT
BRITAIN, STRIKES ME AS AN
INCREDIBLY UNINTERESTING
QUESTION, BECAUSE WHAT NOBODY
DOUBTS IS THAT IRAQ HAD THE
CAPACITY TO MAKE THESE WEAPONS.
THE SCIENTISTS WERE THERE, THE
LABS WERE THERE.
EVERYBODY AGREES ABOUT THAT,
THERE'S NO DISPUTE ABOUT THAT.
EVERYONE KNOWS THE IRAQIS COULD
HAVE DONE IT, BECAUSE THEY DID IT.
AND NOT ONLY DID THEY DO IT, BUT
THEY USED THEM.
SO THEY KNEW HOW TO DO IT, THEY
HAD THE PEOPLE WHO KNEW HOW TO
DO IT, THEY HAD THE FACILITIES
TO DO IT.
THEY HAD TWO CONSTRAINTS THAT
PREVENTED THEM IN THE 1990s FROM
BUILDING MORE OF THESE WEAPONS,
OR AS MANY OF THESE WEAPONS AS
THEY WOULD HAVE LIKED.
ONE WAS THEY WERE UNDER
INSPECTION, TWO WAS THAT THE
SANCTIONS BIT INTO THE FLOW OF
FUNDS BECAUSE THESE WEAPONS "DO."
COST MONEY.
IN THE MONTHS AFTER 1998, THE
INSPECTORS WERE REMOVED AND THE
SANCTIONS BEGAN TO CRUMBLE.
BY 2001, THEY WERE COLLAPSING,
AND I'M NOT... ASHAMED...
I'M NOT TOO PARTISAN TO ADMIT,
THAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WAS
GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE IT
FELT IT COULD NOT DEFEND THEM,
AND IT WAS GOING TO BE PARTY TO
A PLAN TO REPLACE THEM WITH
SOMETHING WHICH WAS CALLED "SMART
SANCTIONS" WHICH WAS A EUPHEMISM
FOR REALLY NO SANCTIONS AT ALL.
SO THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE THE
FREEDOM, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE
THE MONEY, THEY HAD THE KNOWHOW,
THEY HAD DONE IT BEFORE, IT WAS
ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE
THEY DID IT AGAIN.
NOW THE QUESTION IS, HOW MANY OF
THESE WEAPONS DID THEY HAPPEN TO
HAVE IN THE BASEMENT AT THE TIME
THE WAR TOOK PLACE?
AND IT TURNS OUT THE CIA'S
ESTIMATE WAS TOO ALARMIST...
THEY HAD FEWER WEAPONS IN THE
BASEMENT THAN THE CIA THOUGHT.
I AM NOT TREMENDOUSLY REASSURED
BY THAT, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IN
DEALING WITH IRAQ, THE HISTORY
OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
AGENCY HAS BEEN AGAIN, AND
AGAIN, AND AGAIN, TO
UNDERESTIMATE THE MAGNITUDE OF
THE THREAT.
AFTER THE ISRAELI AIR FORCE
PRACTISED SOME ARMS LIMITATION
ON THE IRAQI NUCLEAR REACTOR AT
OSIRAK IN 1981, THE CIA
PROJECTED THAT IT WOULD BE A
GENERATION BEFORE THE IRAQI
NUCLEAR PROGRAM WOULD BE BACK ON TRACK.
IN FACT, WHEN AMERICAN TROOPS
OCCUPIED IRAQ, OR DEALT WITH
IRAQ, AND OCCUPIED PARTS OF IRAQ
AND DEALT WITH IRAQI AUTHORITIES
IN 1991, THEY FOUND THAT IRAQ
HAD CREATED AN ENTIRELY NEW
NUCLEAR PROGRAM, THIS ONE NOT
DEPENDENT ON IMPORTED
TECHNOLOGY, LIKE THE '81
PROGRAM, BUT THIS ONE LARGELY
HOME-GROWN, THE TECHNOLOGY
BORROWED FROM OTHER COUNTRIES
INCLUDING PAKISTAN.
THE CIA HAD ALSO PREDICTED, AS
LATE AS AUGUST OF 1990, THAT
IRAQ WOULD NOT INVADE KUWAIT.
THAT WAS THE REASON...
YOU MAY REMEMBER THE FAMOUS
INTERVIEW BETWEEN APRIL GLASPIE
AND SADDAM HUSSEIN.
WHAT IS NOT WELL REMEMBERED, IS
THAT APRIL GLASPIE... THIS TOOK
PLACE ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE DAYS, I
FORGET EXACTLY, BEFORE THE
INVASION...
APRIL GLASPIE THEN LEFT ON
HOLIDAY, BECAUSE SHE HAD BEEN
ASSURED BY THE CIA THAT SADDAM
WAS BLUFFING.
THEY GOT THAT WRONG.
THEY ASSURED US AFTER THE END OF
THE WAR, THAT IRAQ DID NOT HAVE
STOCKPILES OF CHEMICAL AND
BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS.
THEN, IN 1995, SADDAM HUSSEIN'S
SON IN LAW, HUSSEIN KAMAL
DEFECTED TO JORDAN, THE IRAQIS,
IN A PANIC, TOLD THE INSPECTORS
"YOU KNOW, IT TURNS OUT WE MAY
HAVE FORGOTTEN TO TELL YOU A FEW
THINGS," AND THEY THEN LED THE
INSPECTORS TO A CHICKEN FARM
OUTSIDE OF BAGDAD WHERE THEY
FOUND A CACHE OF DOCUMENTS
DETAILING THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY
PROGRAM TO MANUFACTURE CHEMICAL
WEAPONS SINCE THE SOVIET
PROGRAMS OF THE 1970s.
AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN,
THEY HAD BEEN WAY TOO...
THE INTELLIGENCE EXPERTS HAD
BEEN WAY TOO OPTIMISTIC.
THAT IS, THEY'VE UNDERESTIMATED
WHAT THE IRAQIS ARE CAPABLE OF.
SO WHEN PEOPLE
SAY THAT VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY
POLITICISED INTELLIGENCE, BY
DISBELIEVING THE CIA'S
REASSURANCES IN 2001, I THINK
WHAT VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY WOULD
SAY IS WELL, THEY HAD ALWAYS GOT
IT WRONG BEFORE, SO I HAD REASON
NOT TO BELIEVE THEM THIS TIME.
AND IF, THIS TIME, THEY HAPPEN
TO BE RIGHT, OR PARTLY RIGHT, I
THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THE
PEOPLE WHO DOUBTED THEM HAD GOOD
REASON FOR DOUBT.
(pause)
I... AS I SAY, I
FIND IT AN UNINTERESTING
QUESTION, BECAUSE THERE IS NO
DOUBT IN MY MIND ABOUT WHAT
WOULD HAVE HAPPENED HAD THE WAR
NOT OCCURRED.
SADDAM HUSSEIN WOULD HAVE STAYED
IN POWER.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS
PROPAGANDA VICTORY FOR HIM, IT
WOULD HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS
VICTORY FOR THE CAUSE OF ANTI-
WESTERN EXTREMISM ALL THROUGH
THE MIDDLE EAST.
BECAUSE ALTHOUGH THESE VARIOUS
MIDDLE EASTERN...
THESE EXPRESSIONS OF MIDDLE
EASTERN RADICALISM HATE EACH
OTHER AND DISAGREE WITH EACH
OTHER, THEY HAVE...
THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE A
COMMON FOE.
IN MANY WAYS, IT IS VERY LIKE
WHAT HAPPENED IN GERMANY IN THE
1930s, WHERE THE COMMUNISTS AND
THE NAZIS WOULD BATTLE, BUT BOTH
SIDES RECOGNISED, THE NAZIS
ALWAYS SAID, THE PERSON WHO
MAKES THE BEST NAZI IS A FORMER
COMMUNIST, AND THE COMMUNISTS,
AFTER 1945 IN EAST GERMANY
UNDERSTOOD THAT THE PERSON WHO
MADE THE BEST COMMUNIST WAS A
FORMER NAZI.
YOU MAY HAVE DIFFERENT HATREDS,
OBJECTS OF YOUR HATRED, BUT THE
HATRED IS THE SAME, AND THAT IS
TRUE OF OSAMA BIN LADEN'S
FOLLOWERS, WHO HATE THE WEST
BECAUSE IT IS NOT SUFFICIENTLY
MUSLIM, AS THEY DEFINE ISLAM,
AND THAT IS TRUE FOR THE
BAATHIST FOLLOWERS, WHO HATE THE
WEST BECAUSE IT IS NOT
SUFFICIENTLY ARAB NATIONALIST,
AS THEY DEFINE ARAB NATIONALISM.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TREMENDOUS
VICTORY FOR THE CAUSE OF ANTI-
AMERICAN EXTREMISM, ANTI-WESTERN
EXTREMISM THROUGH THE WEST, IF,
IN THE AFTERMATH OF 9-11, SADDAM
HUSSEIN HAD EMERGED STRONGER
THAN EVER, BENEFITING FROM A
RISE IN OIL PRICE, ABLE TO BUY
THESE WEAPONS, HAVING DEFIED THE
WEST, HAVING SHOWN THAT IT WORKED.
AND CONVERSELY, THE WIRES ARE
NOT REPORTING, THAT WHEN THE
NEWS OF SADDAM'S CAPTURE WAS
BROADCAST IN GUANTANAMO BAY,
OVER THE LITTLE LOUDSPEAKERS
THEY HAVE THERE, THAT YOU COULD
FEEL THE DEMORALISATION THROUGH
THE CAMP, EVEN THOUGH THE PEOPLE
THERE THEORETICALLY, DISAPPROVED
OF AND DISLIKED SADDAM, THEY
UNDERSTOOD THAT THEIR CAUSE HAD
TAKEN A TERRIBLE REBUFF, AND IF
YOU LISTEN TO THIS LATEST TAPE
THAT IS ATTRIBUTED TO OSAMA BIN
LADEN, I'M AGNOSTIC ON WHETHER
IT'S HIM OR NOT, WHAT IS
STRIKING IS ITS DEFEATISM, IS
ITS AWARENESS THAT THE CAUSE
THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN PLUNGED THE
REGION INTO VIOLENCE AND WARFARE
OVER, THAT CAUSE IS IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY.
UM... (pause)
YET, YET, FOR ALL THE POSITIVE
REASONS, ALL THE REASONS WE HAVE
TO FEEL RIGHT ABOUT WHAT
HAPPENED IN IRAQ AND FOR ALL THE
REASONS THAT WE HAVE TO FEEL
POSITIVE ABOUT THE OUTCOME
THERE, AND WHILE IT IS TRUE THAT
THE VIOLENCE CONTINUES, IT'S
ALSO TRUE THAT THIS IS NOT AN
UNUSUAL THING AFTER A WAR.
PEOPLE SAY, WELL WHY IS THERE
STILL VIOLENCE AND TROUBLE
IN IRAQ?
AND ONE OF MY RESPONSES IS, YOU
KNOW, APPOMATTOX WAS A PRETTY
CONVINCING VICTORY, 1865, IN THE U.S.
CIVIL WAR.
BUT FOR 12 YEARS AFTER THAT,
THERE WAS VIOLENCE ALL OVER THE SOUTH.
JESSE JAMES, WHO CAME FROM A
FAMILY OF CONFEDERATE
SYMPATHISERS, THE REASON HE
ROBBED TRAINS AND THE REASON HE
GUNNED DOWN UNION SOLDIERS, WAS
PARTLY FOR MONEY, PARTLY ALSO AS
AN EXPRESSION OF POLITICAL ANIMOSITY.
REMEMBER, HIS MOST FAMOUS
ROBBERY, HE RODE ALL THE WAY
FROM MISSOURI WHERE HE WAS FROM,
TO MINNESOTA TO ROB A BANK.
HE KILLED A BANK MANAGER THERE.
AND HE SAW THAT AS A FORM OF
GUERILLA WARFARE, A "LAST STAND
OF THE CONFEDERACY."
IT TOOK 12 YEARS TO QUIET THE
SOUTH DOWN.
SIMILARLY, PEOPLE WHO VISITED
GERMANY TWO YEARS AFTER THE END
OF WORLD WAR II, HAD TREMENDOUS
DOUBTS ABOUT WHETHER THE ALLIED
OPERATION WAS GOING TO SUCCEED.
THEY NOTICED THAT THE STANDARD
OF LIVING HAD NOT BEEN RESTORED,
THAT MANY BASIC SERVICES WERE
MISSING, THAT PEOPLE WERE HUNGRY.
NOT 12 YEARS, NOT 2 YEARS, NOT
EVEN 1 YEAR AFTER THE END OF
THIS WAR IN WHICH IRAQ WAS
POUNDED WITH AMERICAN
BOMBARDMENTS, IRAQ AS A WHOLE IS
PRODUCING MORE ELECTRICITY THAN
IT DID BEFORE THE WAR, IT IS
PRODUCING ABOUT AS MUCH
PETROLEUM, THE CURRENCY IS
STABLE, JOBS ARE COMING BACK
ONLINE, SCHOOLTEACHERS HAVE
SEEN THEIR PAY RISE, SCHOOL
CLASSES ARE TAUGHT, THE
GRADUATING CLASS IS GRADUATING
UNINTERRUPTED, THERE IS REASON,
THERE IS TREMENDOUS REASON FOR OPTIMISM.
AND YET, NOTWITHSTANDING ALL
THAT, I WOULD SAY THAT THE WORK
OF THIS WAR HAS BARELY BEGUN,
BECAUSE THE IDEA THAT IRAQ IS
SEPARATE FROM THE WAR ON
TERRORISM IS, I THINK ONE OF THE
ARGUMENTS, ONE OF THE IDEAS I
WOULD LIKE ARGUE AGAINST TONIGHT.
PEOPLE WILL SOMETIMES SAY, "WHY
THIS DISTRACTION?
WHY THIS DISTRACTION, WHY NOT
CONCENTRATE ON THE MAIN FOE?"
I MEAN, WHY INVADE NORMANDY WHEN
YOUR ENEMY IS IN BERLIN?
SIMILARLY, AND THE ANSWER TO
THAT IS, THAT THE WAY TO BERLIN
GOES THROUGH NORMANDY, AND THE
WAY TO THE TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE
IDEOLOGY THAT HAS GRIPPED SO
MUCH OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND THAT
THREATENS BOTH THE PEOPLE OF THE
MIDDLE EAST, AND THE PEOPLE OF
THE WESTERN WORLD, THE WAY GOES
THROUGH IRAQ.
BUT THE WAY HAS TO BE FOLLOWED.
AND THE THING THAT INSPIRED
RICHARD AND ME TO SET TO WORK ON
THIS BOOK IN THE SPRING OF 2003,
AND IT'S SORT OF A FUNNY STORY,
HOW WE STARTED TO WORK ON THIS.
WE'D BEEN TALKING TOGETHER FOR
SO LONG, IN FACT, JUST BY
COINCIDENCE, RICHARD WAS ONE OF
THE PEOPLE, ONE OF THE VERY
FIRST PEOPLE I TALKED TO ON
SEPTEMBER 11th ITSELF.
WE TALKED ON THE PHONE.
I HAD BEEN EVACUATED FROM THE
WHITE HOUSE, HE WAS STRANDED IN
FRANCE, AND I WENT TO THE
AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE
WHERE I HAD FRIENDS, JUST TO GET
ACCESS TO A TELEPHONE, AND HE
WAS ON THE LINE TALKING TO
SOMEBODY, AND WE TALKED FOR AN HOUR.
AND I SAID TO HIM, "I'M GOING TO
GO TO THIS PLACE WHERE THE STAFF
IS GATHERING, TO SPEAK TO EACH
OTHER THERE.
IF YOU COULD TELL ME ONE THING
THAT YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT
NEEDS TO SAY, ONE THING, WHAT
WOULD BE THAT ONE THING?"
AND HE SAID, "THE ONE THING THE
PRESIDENT MUST SAY IS THAT THE
UNITED STATES WILL HOLD
ACCOUNTABLE NOT JUST THE PEOPLE
WHO DID THIS ACT, BUT THE STATES
WHO SPONSORED AND HARBOURED
THOSE PEOPLE."
SO I THOUGHT THAT SOUNDED GOOD,
AND I WROTE IT DOWN.
AND THEN WE WENT TO THIS SORT
OF... THIS UH... SECRET PLACE.
THOSE OF YOU WHO WERE HERE LAST
YEAR MIGHT REMEMBER THE STORY OF
THIS PLACE.
IT WAS THIS INCREDIBLE, IT'S
LIKE THE NICEST PLACE I EVER
WORKED IN WHILE I WORKED WITH
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
IT WAS AN OFFICE BUILDING IN MIDTOWN WASHINGTON,
YOU STEPPED IN, AND IT WASN'T
LIKE THE GRUNGY, SEMI-DISGUSTING
ENVIRONMENTS THAT THE WHITE
HOUSE REALLY IS, EXCEPT FOR THE
PRESIDENT'S OWN PERSONAL WORKSPACE.
IT WAS FANTASTIC.
YOU WALK IN AND THERE WERE THESE
ELEVATORS THAT WENT WHOOSH-WHOOSH,
AND THERE WAS THIS
ELEVATOR THAT WENT REALLY FAST
AND WHOOSH-WHOOSH, AND THEY HAD
SPREAD OUT THIS WONDERFUL LUNCH,
AND AGAIN, IT WASN'T THE SOGGY
GOVERNMENT SANDWICHES, IT WAS
THIS BEAUTIFUL THING OF...
LIKE, WE WERE ALL RAVENOUS, AND
THERE WERE THESE WONDERFUL
SALADS, AND WRAPS, AND THEY HAD
FLAT SCREENS FOR THE COMPUTERS
AND WONDERFUL FANCY TELEPHONES,
AND THEY WERE CLEAN, THEY
WEREN'T STICKY.
AND THE E-MAIL PROGRAM WORKED,
AND I SAID TO SOMEBODY, HOW
FANTASTIC THEY HAVE MAINTAINED
THIS HIGH-TECH SECRET GOVERNMENT
HIDEOUT FOR CASES OF EMERGENCY.
AND THEY SAID, NO, NO, THIS IS
THE GOVERNMENT RELATIONS OFFICE
OF DAIMLER CHRYSLER.
[Audience laughter]
SOMEBODY ON THE WHITE HOUSE
STAFF WAS MARRIED TO THE PERSON
WHO RUNS THE OFFICE, AND HE LET
US USE IT.
ANYWAY, SO I WAS THERE WITH MY
COLLEAGUES, AND WE WROTE DRAFT
AFTER DRAFT OF THINGS THE
PRESIDENT SHOULD SAY, EVERY
SINGLE ONE OF WHICH, LIKE 90 PERCENT OF
ALL OF THE WORK EVERYBODY IN THE
GOVERNMENT DOES, ENDED IN THE
WASTEBASKET AND NOT
UNDESERVEDLY SO, UNLIKE PAUL
O'NEILL, WHO GAVE...
PAUL O'NEILL, TODAY, OR
YESTERDAY WAS ON TV SAYING, "IT
WAS JUST TERRIBLE THAT
PRESIDENT...
I WOULD SAY THINGS AND THE
PRESIDENT WOULDN'T LISTEN, HE
MUST BE A FOOL."
AND THAT'S ONE EXPLANATION OF
THE TRANSACTION.
[Audience laughter]
YOU KNOW, I TELL JOKES, YOU
DON'T LAUGH, YOU HAVE NO SENSE
OF HUMOUR.
[Audience laughter]
BUT THERE'S ANOTHER HYPOTHESIS.
ANYWAY, IT ENDED UP, THROUGH
ALL OF THIS, THROUGH ALL OF
THIS, THERE WAS ONE SENTENCE
THAT STUCK IN EVERY SINGLE DRAFT
AND ALTHOUGH, AS THOSE OF YOU
WHO HAVE READ MY BOOK WILL KNOW,
I DID NOT THINK ALTOGETHER
HIGHLY OF THE SPEECH THAT THE
PRESIDENT GAVE ON THE NIGHT OF
SEPTEMBER 11th, I THOUGHT HE GOT
SOME OF THE IMPORTANT...
IN MY VIEW, THE TONE WAS RIGHT
THE NEXT DAY, BUT THAT NIGHT,
THE TONE WAS NOT RIGHT.
HE HAD BEEN ISOLATED FROM PUBLIC
OPINION, HE HAD BEEN LOCKED UP
IN THAT PLANE, HE DIDN'T FEEL
THE THINGS THAT THOSE OF US WHO
HAD BEEN ACTUALLY BEEN SORT OF
IMMERSED IN THE EXPERIENCE FELT,
I MEAN, HOW COULD HE?
HE WAS SEALED UP INSIDE OF AN
ALUMINUM TUBE.
BUT THAT SENTENCE SURVIVED, AND
THAT BECAME THE "MAGNA CARTA" OF
THE WHOLE WAR ON TERRORISM.
AND ANY TIME THAT ANYONE HAS
TRIED TO SHUT DOWN THIS WAR, AS
EVERY ONE OF THE DEMOCRATIC
CANDIDATES, EXCEPT FOR TWO,
WANTS TO DO, AND SO MANY
COMMENTATORS WANT TO DO, EVERY
TIME THEY TRY TO SHUT DOWN THE
WAR, BEFORE IT IS OVER, THEY
KEEP BUTTING UP AGAINST THAT
PRESIDENTIAL COMMITMENT...
"WE WILL GO AFTER EVERY STATE
THAT HARBOURS AND SHELTERS
TERRORISM," AND THAT WAS THERE
FROM THE BEGINNING, AND THAT WAS
MY COLLEAGUE'S GREAT CONTRIBUTION
TO THIS CAMPAIGN.
AND OF ALL OF THE THINGS RICHARD
PERLE HAS DONE IN HIS LIFE TO
DESERVE HONOUR, AND THERE ARE
MANY, THAT IS WHAT, WHEN THEY
CHISEL THE MARBLE EPITHET FOR
HIM, THAT PROBABLY BELONGS AT
THE VERY HEAD OF THE LIST.
BUT THAT... THAT "SPIRIT OF 9-11," WAS A
SPIRIT THAT IN THE SPRING OF
2003, WE BEGAN TO FEEL FLAG.
IT'S HARD...
WHEN YOU'RE IN A SOCIETY, WHEN
YOU'RE IN A SUBCULTURE, YOU
BECOME TREMENDOUSLY SENSITIVE TO
MOOD, AND YOU WILL BE WORKING IN
YOUR OFFICE, AND A FRIEND OF
YOURS, OR A WIFE OR LOVED ONE,
WILL COME VISIT YOU, AND THEY'LL
WALK IN AND IT LOOKS JUST LIKE
IT ALWAYS DOES, BUT YOU KNOW, IF
YOU ARE THERE EVERY DAY, IT HAS
THAT FEELING OF THE EXTRA ENERGY
OR THE LACK OF ENERGY, A GOOD
DAY OR A BAD DAY, IN THE SAME
WAY, WHEN YOU'RE IMMERSED IN THE
WORLD THAT MAKES POLICY IN
WASHINGTON, YOU CAN JUST FEEL
THE FIGHT, BIT BY BIT, LEECHING
OUT OF WASHINGTON IN THE SPRING
OF 2003, AND THE CLAIMS OF THE
STATUS QUO REESTABLISHING THEMSELVES.
AND WE WROTE THIS BOOK IN ORDER
TO FIGHT THAT, TO SAY, THIS
FIGHT IS NOT OVER, THE STAKES
ARE AS HIGH AS EVER, AND THE
COUNTRY AND THE WORLD HAS TO BE
REDEDICATED TO THIS WAR, AND WE
THEN SET UP A SPECIFIC PROGRAM.
AS I THOUGHT
ABOUT WHAT NEEDED TO BE SAID, I
WAS VERY STRUCK...
I WAS VERY STRUCK BY THE NUMBER
AND VARIETY OF REALLY VERY FINE
BOOKS THAT EXPLAINED WHERE THE
TERRORISM HAD COME FROM, HOW THE
TERRORISTS THOUGHT.
THEY EXPLAINED
THE MISTAKES THAT THE UNITED
STATES AND OTHERS HAD MADE, THAT
HAD GIVEN THE TERRORISTS THEIR OPPORTUNITY.
AND THERE WAS A LOT THAT HAD
BEEN SAID ON ALL OF THESE SUBJECTS.
BUT WHAT A LOT OF THESE BOOKS
DID, WAS THEY TENDED TO END WITH
TWO PAGES OR LESS, MAYBE A
LITTLE MORE, BUT NEVER VERY
CONCLUSIVE, ON THE QUESTION THAT
ANY PERSON OF ACTION WOULD HAVE
TO ASK AFTER MASTERING ALL OF
THIS KNOWLEDGE, WHICH IS, WHAT
DO WE DO?
WHAT DO WE DO?
OKAY, GOOD, GLAD TO KNOW WHERE
IT CAME FROM.
GOOD, GLAD TO KNOW WHAT MISTAKES
WE MADE.
WHAT DO WE DO?
AND SO THAT'S THE BOOK THAT
RICHARD AND I SET OUT TO WRITE.
NOW, IT'S FULL OF SUGGESTIONS
ABOUT WHAT TO DO, AND I'M NOT
GOING TO TRY TO SUMMARISE THEM
ALL NOW.
BUT THE THINGS THAT WE EMPHASISE
FALL UNDER FOUR MAIN HEADINGS,
AND I'M GOING TO GO AT A VERY
FAST CLIP, AND WITHOUT DOING
JUSTICE TO ALL OF THE MANY
VARIOUS IDEAS IN THE BOOK, TRY
TO JUST SUMMARISE ONE OR TWO.
AND THE FOUR HEADINGS ARE, WE
BREAK THE BOOK INTO "THE WAR AT
HOME"... THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE
DONE TO SECURE THE AMERICAN
HOMELAND, AND WHICH CANADA, AS
THE SHARER OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY
BORDER WITH THE UNITED STATES,
NEEDS TO BE A PARTICIPANT.
THE SECOND HEADING IS "THINGS
THAT HAVE TO BE DONE IN THE WAR
ABROAD," TO DEAL WITH BOTH THE
TERROR GROUPS AND STATES THAT
SUPPORT THEM.
THE THIRD IS "THE REALM OF IDEAS."
NOW ONE OF THE WAYS THAT RICHARD
AND I... NEO-CONSERVATIVES,
AGREE WITH THE LEFT IS...
AND DISAGREE WITH SORT OF THE
SPONGY MIDDLE WHICH TENDS TO
DOMINATE THE DEBATE.
THE SPONGY MIDDLE THINKS OF
TERRORISM AS BASICALLY A FORM OF
EXTRA-LETHAL CRIMINAL ACTIVITY,
AND THAT TERRORISTS ARE LIKE
BANDITS, AND YOU HAVE TO TRACK
THEM DOWN AND ROUND THEM UP, BUT
YOU DON'T EVER NEED TO
UNDERSTAND THEM.
WHERE WE AGREE WITH THE LEFT IS
THAT TERRORISM IS A PROFOUNDLY
POLITICAL ACT UNDERTAKEN FOR
POLITICAL REASONS.
THE TERRORISTS HAVE GRIEVANCES,
THEY HAVE MOTIVES, THEY HAVE AN
AGENDA, THEY HAVE THINGS THEY
WANT DONE.
NOW WHERE WE DISAGREE WITH THE
LEFT... THE LEFT VIEW IS, IF
SOMEONE FEELS STRONGLY ENOUGH
ABOUT SOMETHING, TO KILL 3,000
INNOCENT PEOPLE, WHY, "HE MUST BE RIGHT."
"WE MUST FIND OUT WHAT HE WANTS,
AND GIVE IT TO HIM."
OUR VIEW IS FINDING OUT WHAT HE
WANTS IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY
IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION
ON THE WAY TO KILLING HIM AND
MAKING SURE HE NEVER STRIKES AGAIN.

[applause]

David continues BUT WE STILL NEED TO KNOW WHY HE
THINKS HE'S DOING IT, AND WE
NEED TO KNOW TO WHOM IS HE
TRYING TO APPEAL, AND HOW DO WE
GIVE THEM BETTER IDEAS AND A
BETTER WAY.
BECAUSE... LET US NOT BE ARROGANT
ABOUT THIS...
THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL AND
UNIQUE ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF ANY
PART OF THE WORLD.
THERE IS NOTHING...
THERE IS NO "UNIQUELY GOOD" GROUP
OF PEOPLE, AND NO "UNIQUELY BAD."
AND THE... AND IF IT IS THE MIDDLE EAST
TODAY, AND IF IT IS THE ISLAMIC
WORLD TODAY THAT HAS SUCCUMBED
TO TOTALITARIAN FANTASIES AND TO
DREAMS OF MURDER, LET US NOT
FORGET THAT IT WAS WHITE
EUROPEANS WHO HAVE SO SUCCUMBED
IN THE NOT SO VERY RECENT PAST.
WE ARE NOT IMMUNE EITHER.
WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS.
WE HAVE DONE, IN OUR OWN
CIVILISATION ALL THE SAME AND
"WORSE BY 100."
SO, WE ARE UNDERSTANDING THESE
IDEAS NOT TO BLAME BUT TO
CONTAIN AND TO DEFEAT AND TO LIBERATE.
IN JUST THE SAME WAY THAT WE HAD
TO DO THE SAME FOR THE PEOPLE OF
GERMANY, THE PEOPLE OF RUSSIA
AND THE PEOPLE OF OTHER PLACES,
AND IF, IN THE "MIGHT-HAVE-BEENS."
OF HISTORY, WE SHOULD NOT BE SO
CONFIDENT THAT IF THE DICE HAD
SHAKEN JUST A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENTLY, IT COULD WELL HAVE
BEEN IN SOCIETIES THAT SPEAK
ENGLISH THAT SIMILAR THINGS
MIGHT WELL HAVE HAPPENED.
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.
HUMAN BEINGS ARE ALL BROTHERS IN
GOOD AND IN BAD.
THE FOURTH AND LAST AREA, AND I
KNOW IT'S A LITTLE TECHNICAL,
AND MAYBE UNEXCITING COMPARED TO
WHAT GOES BEFORE, BUT IT'S SO
ESSENTIAL, IS INSTITUTIONAL REFORM.
YOU KNOW, WARS ARE FOUGHT BY
GOVERNMENTS, GOVERNMENTS ARE
BUREAUCRACIES, AND BUREAUCRACIES
CONSTANTLY NEED TO BE UPGRADED,
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT AS WELL.
NOW LET ME GIVE YOU JUST A SMALL
SAMPLE AND DOSE, WITHOUT
OVERBURDENING YOUR PATIENCE,
WHICH YOU'VE BEEN VERY GENEROUS
WITH SO FAR.
FOR THE WAR AT HOME, ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT I AM ALWAYS STRUCK
WITH AND THE WAY THAT PEOPLE
COMMENT ABOUT IT, IS THE BELIEF
THAT "ANYTHING THAT IS EVER DONE
TO MAKE SOCIETY SAFE IS THE
FIRST STEP ON THE SLIPPERY SLOPE
TOWARD FASCISM."
TOM WOLFE HAS A WONDERFUL STORY
ABOUT DOING A DEBATE AT
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY IN 1969,
AND DEBATING GUNTER GRASS.
AND GUNTER GRASS, A VERY
THEATRICAL GERMAN NOVELIST STOOD
UP AT ONE POINT AND SAID, "THE
DARK NIGHT OF FASCISM IS FALLING
IN THE UNITED STATES."
AND TOM WOLFE, IN HIS DRY WAY
SAID, "WELL THE DARK NIGHT OF
FASCISM IS ALWAYS FALLING IN THE
UNITED STATES, BUT IT ALWAYS
SEEMS TO LAND IN EUROPE."

[Audience laughter]

David continues THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE
TO MAKE OUR SOCIETY SAFE ARE
THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT
ANY VIOLENCE TO ANYBODY'S PROPER
CIVIL LIBERTIES.
I HAVE A DEBATING TACTIC, AND I
OFFER IT TO ALL OF YOU IF YOU'RE
INTERESTED IN IT.
I'LL PERIODICALLY GO SOMEWHERE
AND SOMEBODY WILL SAY, SOMEBODY
SAID TO ME ON THE RADIO THE
OTHER NIGHT, ON W.B.R. IN BOSTON,
THAT 9-11 WAS TRAGIC, SURE, BUT
THE PATRIOT ACT WAS EVEN WORSE.
AND HE HUNG UP BEFORE I COULD
ASK HIM LIKE REPORTERS, "THE
PATRIOT ACT IS EVEN WORSE?
WHAT DOES IT SAY?"
NOBODY EVER KNOWS.
BUT AMONG THE THINGS THE PATRIOT
ACT SAYS, FOR EXAMPLE, IS THAT
WHEREAS BEFORE THE PATRIOT ACT,
IF YOU WANTED TO WIRETAP
SOMEBODY, YOU HAD TO GET A
SEPARATE WARRANT FOR EACH OF HIS
PHONE NUMBERS, AND IF SOMEBODY
WANTED TO DEFEAT A WIRETAP, ALL
HE HAD TO DO WAS THROW AWAY HIS
OLD CELL PHONE, AND BUY A NEW ONE.
BUT UNDER THE PATRIOT ACT, IT
SAYS YOU CAN GO TO COURT AND GET
A WARRANT FOR A PERSON.
THE PATRIOT ACT...
THE PATRIOT ACT AT LAST
INTRODUCES THE AMERICAN LAW TO
THE CONCEPT THAT THE BELL
TELEPHONE MONOPOLY OF THE 1950s
IS GONE.
SO THAT'S ONE THING IT DOES.
ANOTHER THING THE PATRIOT ACT
DOES, IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, ALL
THIS STUFF ABOUT HOW, UNDER THE
PATRIOT ACT THE GOVERNMENT CAN
GO TO YOUR LIBRARY AND GET YOUR
LIBRARY RECORDS?
WHAT THE PATRIOT
ACT SAYS IS UNDER EXISTING LAW
IN THE UNITED STATES, IF THE
GOVERNMENT THINKS YOU'RE GUILTY
OF INCOME TAX FRAUD, IT CAN GET
YOUR BUSINESS RECORDS, INCLUDING
ANY LIBRARY WITHDRAWALS YOU'VE MADE.
THAT'S EXISTING LAW.
IF THE GOVERNMENT
THINKS YOU'RE GUILTY OF
EMBEZZLEMENT, IT CAN GET YOUR
BUSINESS RECORDS, INCLUDING YOUR
LIBRARY RECORDS.
BUT WEIRDLY ENOUGH, UNDER PRE-
PATRIOT ACT LAW, IF THE
GOVERNMENT THOUGHT YOU WERE
PLOTTING TO DETONATE A NUCLEAR
DEVICE IN THE MIDDLE OF
MANHATTAN, IT COULDN'T GET YOUR
BUSINESS RECORDS, INCLUDING YOUR
LIBRARY RECORDS.
SO THE PATRIOT ACT SAYS THE
STANDARDS FOR PLOTTING TO
DETONATE A NUCLEAR DEVICE IN THE
MIDDLE OF MANHATTAN SHOULD BE
THE SAME AS THE STANDARDS FOR
EMBEZZLEMENT.
AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T STRIKE ME AS
AN OUTRAGEOUS INFRINGEMENT ON
HUMAN FREEDOM.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE KEEP
BUTTING UP AGAINST AS WE GO
AROUND THE COUNTRY MAKING THESE
POINTS ON THE CONTINENT, IS THE
COMMON BELIEF THAT A FREE
SOCIETY IS AN UNPOLICED SOCIETY.
AND ANYTHING THAT ADVANCES
POLICING MAKES A SOCIETY LESS FREE.
I WOULD REPLY THAT A FREE
SOCIETY IS A SELF-POLICED SOCIETY.
IT IS NOT A SOCIETY WITHOUT
POLICE, IT IS A SOCIETY WHERE
THE POLICE WORK WITH THE CONSENT
OF THE GOVERNED, AND IN WHICH
ALL CITIZENS FEEL, NOT, AS YOU
WILL HEAR FROM SOME OF THE CIVIL
LIBERTIES GROUPS THAT ALL
CITIZENS SHOULD REGARD
THEMSELVES AS POTENTIAL
CRIMINALS, ALWAYS... TO ALWAYS
THINK OF THIS FROM THE POINT OF
VIEW OF, "WHEN I COMMIT MY CRIME,
HOW WILL I FEEL ABOUT THESE
GOVERNMENT POWERS."
THEY SHOULD ALL FEEL THEMSELVES
AS PART OF A NATIONAL COMMUNITY
THAT SAYS, "ARE THESE POWERS THAT
WE TRUST AND THAT CAN BE USED
WHEN NECESSARY, AND ARE WE,
AS POTENTIAL VICTIMS OF CRIME,
POTENTIAL SUPPORTERS OF, AS
AUTHORS OF THE LAWS THAT DECIDE
WHAT IS CRIMINAL AND WHAT IS NOT
CRIMINAL, DO WE THINK THESE
POWERS ARE NECESSARY AND
APPROPRIATE AND TOLERABLE FOR
THE EXERCISE OF OUR DEMOCRATIC
RIGHTS OF SELF GOVERNMENT.
WE THEN PROPOSE AS AN ADDITION
TO THESE, SOME OTHER MEASURES.
ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS THAT
ALL... AND
UNITED STATES IN PARTICULAR HAS,
IS THAT ITS IMMIGRATION SYSTEM
HAS BROKEN DOWN.
AND THERE ARE MANY ASPECTS OF
THIS PROBLEM, AND MANY OF THEM
ARE NOT GERMANE TO MY TOPIC, BUT
ONE THAT IS, IS THAT THE LARGE...
ABOUT HALF OR ABOUT A THIRD OF
THE 48 PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMMITTED
ACTS OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM IN THE
UNITED STATES SINCE 1993,
INCLUDING THE 9-11 HIJACKERS,
ENTERED THE COUNTRY, AND IN SOME
WAY OR OTHER, VIOLATED THE TERMS
OF THEIR ENTRY INTO THE COUNTRY,
THEY COMMITTED A VIOLATION OF
THE IMMIGRATION LAWS.
THE UNITED STATES HAS A SYSTEM
OF VISAS FOR STUDENTS AND
BUSINESSMEN THAT MAKES IT VERY
DIFFICULT TO KNOW WHETHER YOU
HAVE EVER LEFT THE COUNTRY WHEN
YOU COME IN.
AND WE PROPOSE MEASURES THAT
WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE, EASIER
TO CHECK UP ON, DO PEOPLE LEAVE
THE COUNTRY WHEN THEY'RE
SUPPOSED TO, BACKED UP BY A
NATIONAL IDENTITY CARD, OF THE
KIND THAT MANY EUROPEAN
COUNTRIES HAVE, THAT IS NOT AN
INVITATION TO SNOOP ON PEOPLE,
BUT THAT MEANS THAT WHENEVER A
POLICEMAN COMES INTO CONTACT
WITH SOMEBODY FOR VIOL...
YOU CAN'T STOP PEOPLE AT RANDOM,
BUT WHEN YOU COME INTO CONTACT
WITH SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY'VE
SPEEDED OR COMMITTED SOME OTHER
INFRACTION, THERE WILL BE A WAY
OF CHECKING... "ARE THEY WHO THEY
SAY THEY ARE, AND ARE THEY
ENTITLED TO BE IN THE COUNTRY?"
AND IN THE BOOK, WE COMPARE THIS
TO YOU KNOW, JUST AS IN NEW
YORK, THEY HAVE THIS POLICY THAT
IF YOU WANT TO FIND PEOPLE WHO
STAB SOMEBODY TO DEATH, WHAT YOU
DO IS YOU STOP EVERYBODY IN THE
PARK FOR... WHO YOU CATCH SMOKING
DOPE, AND YOU TAKE THEIR FINGERPRINTS.
I WAS ON EVAN SOLOMON'S SHOW
THIS MORNING AND EVAN SOLOMON
SAID, "THAT'S A STUPID ANALOGY."
AND I SAID, WELL, AS A MATTER OF
FACT, THAT IS HOW THEY CAUGHT...
MAYOR GIULIANI PRECISELY CAUGHT
ONE OF THE MOST SPECTAC...
THE FIRST SPECTACULAR MURDER
SOLUTION OF MAYOR GIULIANI'S
CRIME WAVE WAS THEY CAUGHT THE
AUTHOR OF A TERRIBLE UNSOLVED
STABBING ON PARK AVENUE BY
CATCHING A BUNCH OF PEOPLE
SMOKING DOPE IN UNION SQUARE
PARK, FINGERPRINTING THEM, AND
FINDING THAT ONE OF THEM HAD
FINGERPRINTS THAT MATCHED THE KNIFE.
THOSE SAME GIULIANI METHODS THAT
HAVE CUT THE CRIME RATE IN NEW
YORK, THE MURDER RATE BY TWO THIRDS,
ARE THE SAME METHODS THAT WILL
BE USED TO FIND PEOPLE WHO OUGHT
NOT TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES,
AND WE CAN WORRY ABOUT THE
DISHWASHERS LATER, BUT MANY OF
THESE PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE
HERE WITH HOSTILE INTENT.
IN THE WAR ABROAD, AGAIN, A
GREAT DEAL TO SAY.
LET ME...
LET ME CONCENTRATE ON JUST ONE
TOPIC, AND THAT IS THE VERY
DIFFICULT PROBLEM OF SAUDI ARABIA.
YOU KNOW, DURING THE IRAQ WAR,
IT WAS VERY COMMON FOR PEOPLE TO
SAY, WELL WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO
IRAQ, WHY DON'T YOU DO SAUDI ARABIA?
AND MY RESPONSE TO THEM ALWAYS
WAS, WHEN WE DO SAUDI ARABIA,
YOU WON'T LIKE THAT ANY BETTER.
IT WAS AN EXCUSE NOT A QUESTION.
BUT I DO THINK IT'S PART OF THE
IRONY AND CUNNING OF HISTORY,
THAT IT WILL BE GEORGE W. BUSH
OF MIDLAND TEXAS, AND DICK
CHENEY OF HALIBURTON THAT PUT
THE UNITED STATES ON THE PATH TO
CONFRONTATION WITH THE HOUSE OF SAUD.
ALTHOUGH IT WAS REALLY THE HOUSE
OF SAUD THAT DID IT ITSELF,
BECAUSE IT WAS TOO FRIGHTENED
AND TOO GREEDY AND TOO SELFISH
TO TAKE THE STEPS THAT ANY
CIVILISED COUNTRY HAS TO MAKE TO
MAKE SURE THAT IT DOES NOT
BECOME AN INCUBATOR OF MASS MURDER.
WE HAVE, AGAIN, A GREAT MANY
SUGGESTIONS, BUT HERE IS JUST ONE.
THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT
MAINTAINS LISTS OF PEOPLE WHOM
IT SUSPECTS OF FUNDING TERROR.
ALTHOUGH THERE ARE TENS OF
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT HAVE
FLOWED FROM SAUDI ARABIA AND THE
GULF GENERALLY, TO EXTREMIST
GROUPS AND ALSO TO TERRORIST
GROUPS AROUND THE WORLD, THE
NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED
IS ACTUALLY, APPARENTLY, I'M
TOLD, NOT THAT LARGE.
AND CERTAINLY THE LARGEST DONORS
ARE A RELATIVE HANDFUL.
THOSE NAMES ARE KNOWN, OR AT
LEAST SUSPECTED.
THAT IS, THOSE SUSPECTS ARE KNOWN.
THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT
PUTS VARIOUS KINDS OF INFORMAL
PRESSURE ON THEM, ONE OF THE
MOST NOTORIOUS OF THESE PEOPLE
RECENTLY HAD A BANK ACCOUNT
CLOSED BY A SAUDI BANK.
AND WHILE IT IS TRUE THAT THE
WITHDRAWAL OF CHEQUING
PRIVILEGES IS ALWAYS A SEVERE
PUNISHMENT, RICHARD AND I TAKE
THE VIEW THAT MAYBE SOMETHING
MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE, THAT
THESE NAMES SHOULD BE PUBLISHED,
THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THOUGHT
TO FUND, THEY'RE NOT CITIZENS,
THEY'RE NOT GIVEN THE PROTECTION
OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT'S
RIGHTS OF DEFENDANTS, THEY ARE
FOREIGNERS, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT RULES.
THEY ARE PROTECTED OR NOT
PROTECTED BY THE LAWS OF THEIR
OWN SOCIETY.
THEIR NAMES SHOULD BE KNOWN.
THEY SHOULD BE BARRED FROM
SETTING FOOT IN THE UNITED
STATES, THEIR ASSETS SUBJECT TO...
THAT ARE IN THE UNITED STATES,
SHOULD BE REACHED, IMPOUNDED AND
FROZEN IF NECESSARY.
THEY SHOULD BE
GIVEN OPPORTUNITIES TO CLEAR
THEIR NAME IF THEY WANT TO, TO
BRING FORWARD THE EVIDENCE THAT
WILL SHOW THAT THE TREASURY
DEPARTMENT IS MISTAKEN ABOUT WHO
THEY ARE.
AND IF THEY CAN'T
DO THAT, THEN PEOPLE SHOULD BE
PUT ON NOTICE THAT THESE ARE
PEOPLE WHOSE NAMES ARE SUSPECTED
IN INVOLVEMENT IN THESE
TERRORIST ACTS.
AND... AND THE GOVERNMENT...
AND IT SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN TO
THE SAUDIS AS WELL THAT IT WILL
BE THEIR JOB TO KEEP AN EYE ON
THESE FOLKS, AND TO KEEP AN EYE
ON THESE FUNDS.
AND IF THE FLOW OF MONEY DOES
NOT CEASE, IT WILL HAVE VERY
SEVERE CONSEQUENCES FOR THE
SAUDI STATE.
TENS OF THESE... (pause)
BUT IT SHOULD BE CLEAR, THAT
MOST OF THIS MONEY DOES NOT FLOW
TO ACTUAL KILLERS.
IT FLOWS TO THE EXTREMIST
SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS THAT
INCUBATE KILLERS.
BUT IT IS A VERY STRANGE THING
THAT SAUDI ARABIA IS FUNDING AND
IS WELCOME TO FUND, A GLOBAL
SYSTEM OF PROSELYTISATION FOR
THE MOST EXTREMIST VERSIONS AND
THE MOST MINORITY VERSIONS OF
ISLAM AT A TIME WHEN INSIDE
SAUDI ARABIA ITSELF, RELIGIOUS
FREEDOM DOES NOT EXIST.
THE... I FORGET NOW WHETHER IT'S
THE FOUR SEASONS OR THE HYATT
REGENCY, IN MECCA, IT IS THE
ONLY FOUR SEASONS OR HYATT
REGENCY IN THE WORLD THAT ASKS
YOU YOUR RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION
BEFORE YOU CHECK IN, BECAUSE YOU
CAN'T STAY THERE UNLESS YOU HAVE
THE RIGHT RELIGION.
THIS IS A STATE, THAT WHEN THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
CAME TO VISIT HIS TROOPS THAT
WERE DEFENDING THE KINGDOM, HE
WAS TOLD HE COULD NOT HAVE HIS
THANKSGIVING DINNER ON SHORE IF
HE INSISTED ON SAYING HIS "GRACE."
BEFOREHAND.
IT'S A STATE WHERE, IF YOU ARE
CAUGHT WITH A CROSS OR A ROSARY,
AS YOU ATTEMPT TO ENTER THE
COUNTRY, IT MIGHT BE SEIZED, AND
YOU MIGHT BE SENT HOME, AND
WHERE FILIPINO LABOURERS ARE
ARRESTED AND TORTURED FOR THE
OFFENCE OF SAYING MASS INSIDE
THE BASEMENTS.
THEY DON'T DO IT... DO THINGS
LIKE THAT TO THE CANADIANS OR
THE ENGLISH, ALTHOUGH THEY DO
ENOUGH, BUT TO THE PEOPLE TO
WHOM THEY THINK THEY CAN GET
AWAY WITH IT.
WELL, AS THE KORAN SO RIGHTLY
SAYS, TO YOU, YOUR RELIGION, TO
ME, MY RELIGION.
THAT IS A PRINCIPLE THAT THE
SAUDI ARABIAN STATE OUGHT TO
UPHOLD IF IT DOES NOT EXPECT TO
HAVE ITS DENIAL OF RELIGIOUS
LIBERTY MADE A VERY, VERY BIG
DEAL IN INTER AMERICAN AND SAUDI
RELATIONS.
AND IF THEY FEEL THEY CANNOT
SURVIVE...
AND IF THE SAUDIS FEEL THEY
CANNOT SURVIVE A POLICY OF
RELIGIOUS OPENNESS AT HOME, THEY
SHOULD NOT BE TAKING ADVANTAGE
OF OTHER PEOPLE'S RELIGIOUS
OPENNESS IN ORDER TO SEND
MISSIONARIES INTO AMERICAN
PRISONS TO RECRUIT SOME OF THE
MOST DESPERATE PEOPLE IN SOCIETY
FOR THE MOST DEADLY AND EXTREME
VERSIONS OF PERVERTED ISLAM.
THE NEXT HEADING... I'M HEADING
RAPIDLY TOWARD THE CLOSE... IS
THE HEADING OF "THE WAR OF IDEAS."
AND AGAIN, THERE IS A GREAT DEAL
MORE TO BE SAID ABOUT THIS, BUT
I WANT TO SAY ONE THING ABOUT
SOMETHING THAT IS OFTEN
CONSIDERED A SIGN OF THE NAIVETE
OF THE SO-CALLED NEO-
CONSERVATIVES, WHICH IS THE
BELIEF THAT THE DENIAL OF
DEMOCRACY HAS SOMETHING TO DO
WITH THE PROBLEMS OF THE MIDDLE
EAST, AND THAT DEMOCRACY MIGHT
BE PART OF THE ANSWER.
WE'RE TOLD, YOU SHOULDN'T BE
CONCERNED WITH DEMOCRACY, YOU
SHOULD BE CONCERNED WITH STABILITY.
BUT I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED
THROUGH HARD EXPERIENCE THAT
NON-DEMOCRATIC SOCIETIES ARE NOT
VERY STABLE, AND AUTOCRACIES ARE
THE LEAST STABLE SOCIETIES OF ALL.
WE'RE ALL VERY GLAD THAT
PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF OF PAKISTAN
SURVIVED HIS TWO NEAR-DEATH
EXPERIENCES IN DECEMBER, BUT HAD
HE NOT... HAD HIS CAR BEEN 2
SECONDS ONE WAY OR 2 SECONDS THE
OTHER WAY DURING ONE OF THOSE
BOMBINGS, WE WOULD NOW BE
PLUNGED INTO A MAJOR CRISIS IN
PAKISTAN, WE MAY STILL BE
PLUNGED INTO IT.
THAT ONE MAN RULE, EVEN WHEN
THAT ONE MAN IS MORE OR LESS "OUR
FRIEND" AND IS DOING, AND
CERTAINLY BRAVE, AND DOING MORE
OR LESS THE THINGS THAT NEED TO
BE DONE TO MAKE HIS COUNTRY LESS
HOSPITABLE TO TERRORISTS, THIS
IS UNSTABLE, AND WE NEED, AND
YOU KNOW, RICHARD AND I ARE
OFTEN ACCUSED OF BEING ADVOCATES
OF THE BELIEF THAT MILITARY
POWER SOLVES EVERYTHING, WE DO
NOT BELIEVE THAT, AND ESPECIALLY
CONFRONTING THE POWER...
THE PROBLEM OF PAKISTAN, WE ARE
HUGE ADVOCATES OF THE IMPORTANCE
OF EDUCATION AND TRADE AND THE
EMPOWERMENT OF WOMEN AS WAYS OF
STABILISING THIS COUNTRY, AND
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS
HAPPENED, WHERE ON ONE SIDE OF
THE 1947 PARTITION LINE BETWEEN
INDIA AND PAKISTAN, YOU HAVE
POVERTY, YES, AND PROBLEMS, YES,
BUT AN ESSENTIALLY STABLE AND
DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY THAT DOES A
REASONABLY DECENT JOB OF
RESPECTING BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS,
AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, A SOCIETY
OF TURBULENCE, AND COUPS
D'ETATS, AND SECRET SALES OF
NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY TO THE WORST
REGIMES IN THE WORLD.
THE LAST ELEMENT THAT WE ITEMISE
IS THE NEED TO REFORM INSTITUTIONS.
ANYONE WHO HAS WORKED IN A
BUREAUCRACY KNOWS THAT MERE
SUCCESS, IN FACT THE MERE
COMPLETION OF ITS MISSION DOES
NOT STOP A BUREAUCRACY FROM
DOING ITS WORK.
AND THE AMERICAN BUREAUCRACIES
THAT WON THE COLD WAR CONTINUE
TO VALIANTLY DO THE WORK TO
PROTECT THE UNITED STATES FROM
THE SOVIET UNION.
THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES ARE
FULL OF PEOPLE WHO SPEAK
RUSSIAN, THE ARMY REMAINS READY
TO FIGHT A TANK BATTLE IN THE
MIDDLE OF EUROPE, THE NAVY
REMAINS READY TO SPEED SUPPLIES
ACROSS THE ATLANTIC OCEAN TO THE
FRONT, AND NONE OF THIS IS
NECESSARY ANY MORE.
BUT OF ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT
NEED TO BE DONE, THE ONE THAT I
WOULD ATTACH THE MOST
IMPORTANCE, IS THE NEED TO
REFORM THE UNITED NATIONS.
THE UNITED NATIONS IS A KIND OF
HORRIBLE "KABUKI THEATRE" WHERE
THERE ARE ALWAYS THE SAME ACTORS
AND THE SAME MELODRAMA, AND THE
SAME VILLAINS THAT GET HISSED,
AND NOBODY BELIEVES A WORD OF IT.
EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S A COMPLETE FAKE.
BUT IT IS NOT...
IT IS NOT MERELY AN AMUSEMENT,
IT IS NOT MERELY AN UGLY
AMUSEMENT, IT IS AN ACTUAL DANGER.
BECAUSE UNDER THE UNITED NATIONS
CHARTER, YOU ARE...
A COUNTRY IS ALLOWED TO PROTECT
ITSELF IF, AND ONLY IF, IT IS A
VICTIM OF AGGRESSION.
IF IT WANTS TO USE FORCE AGAINST
ANYTHING OTHER THAN DIRECT
AGGRESSION, IT HAS TO GO TO THE
SECURITY COUNCIL TO GET PERMISSION.
YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
BUT THE UNITED NATIONS CHARTER
WAS WRITTEN IN THE AGE WHEN
AGGRESSION MEANT STUKA DIVE
BOMBERS AND PANZER TANKS.
IT DID NOT CONCEIVE OF THE IDEA
THAT ONE STATE WOULD INCUBATE
"GERM WARRIORS" TO PLOT MASS
CHEMICAL OR BIOLOGICAL DEATH
AGAINST PEOPLE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY.
WE ARGUE THAT THE UNITED NATIONS
CHARTER MUST BE AMENDED TO
RECOGNISE THAT HARBOURING OF
TERRORISTS IS AN ACT OF
AGGRESSION EXACTLY LIKE THAT OF
SENDING STUKAS AND PANZER
GROUPS, AND THAT IF IT ISN'T,
THEN THAT MEANS THE UNITED
NATIONS HAS CHOSEN ITS OWN
IRRELEVANCE, AND THE UNITED
STATES AND, WE WOULD HOPE, OTHER
DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES WOULD NO
LONGER SUBMIT TO ITS CORRUPT
JURISDICTION, TO ITS CORRUPT AND
SELF-DEFEATING JURISDICTION, BUT
WOULD, INSTEAD, WITHDRAW AND
BECOME...
AND CEASE TO BE PUT INTO
POSITIONS WHERE THEY MUST EITHER
BETRAY THEIR STATED COMMITMENTS
OR BETRAY THEIR PRIME AND
SUPREME OBLIGATION TO THEIR OWN
PEOPLE TO OFFER NATIONAL DEFENSE.
WELL WE'VE COVERED A LOT OF GROUND IN 45
MINUTES, AND WE'VE BARELY BEGUN,
AND I'M SURE YOU HAVE MANY
THINGS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY.
LET ME ADD ONE LAST THOUGHT,
BECAUSE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT.
THOSE OF US THAT ADVOCATE THE
POINT OF VIEW THAT I'VE BEGUN TO
ADVOCATE THIS EVENING, ARE
SOMETIMES ACCUSED OF DREAMING OF
AN AMERICAN EMPIRE.
AND I WANT TO SAY THAT THIS IS
AN OUTRAGEOUS AND SCURRILOUS UNTRUTH.
THAT THE IDEALS THAT MOTIVATED
THE UNITED STATES AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE COLD WAR, ARE
THE SAME IDEALS THAT MOTIVATE IT NOW.
NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT IMPOSING
AMERICAN POWER.
THE AMERICAN DESIRE TO GET OUT
OF IRAQ AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, IS
ONE REPLY, BUT THERE ARE MANY OTHERS.
THE DREAM THAT MOTIVATED THE
PEOPLE WHO CREATED THE UNITED
NATIONS, EVEN THOUGH THAT DREAM
WENT WRONG, STILL REMAINS THE
ANIMATING DREAM OF THE AMERICAN
HARDLINERS OF TODAY, AND THAT IS
A WORLD GOVERNED BY LAW.
A WORLD WHERE THE RELATIONS
BETWEEN STATES ARE GOVERNED NOT
BY VIOLENCE AND THE THREAT OF
VIOLENCE BUT BY RULES.
AND IT IS AN AMERICAN
ACHIEVEMENT, THAT THIS DREAM,
THIS U.N. DREAM OF WORLD
GOVERNMENT BY LAW, HAS COME TRUE
FOR ABOUT 1/5 OF HUMANITY.
IT IS TRUE THAT IF AN ITALIAN
AND A CANADIAN, OR IF THE
GOVERNMENT OF AUSTRIA AND THE
GOVERNMENT OF NEW ZEALAND HAVE A
DISPUTE, THAT DISPUTE WILL NOT...
VIOLENCE AND THE POSSIBILITY OF
VIOLENCE WILL NEVER ENTER INTO IT.
IT WILL BE SETTLED BY PROCESSES OF LAW.
AND SOMETIMES THESE ARE PRETTY
NASTY WRANGLES.
BUT THAT'S TRUE IF YOU SUE YOUR
NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOUR OVER WHO
OUGHT TO BEAR THE COST OF
PICKING UP THE TREE THAT CRASHED
AFTER THE STORM.
THE WRANGLES MAY BE NASTY, BUT
THEY WILL NEVER INCLUDE THE
POSSIBILITY OF VIOLENCE, AND
THAT IS THE ACHIEVEMENT OF OUR
PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS, SINCE
1945 FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC
COMMUNITY AND FOR AUSTRALIA AND
NEW ZEALAND, BUT IT'S NOT TRUE
OF THE REST OF THE WORLD.
THOSE OF US IN THE HARD LINE ARE
SOMETIMES CALLED IDEOLOGICAL,
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THOSE
PEOPLE WHO INSIST ON PRETENDING
THAT WHAT OUGHT TO BE TRUE, IS
TRUE, THEY ARE THE IDEOLOGUES,
AND THOSE PEOPLE INSIST ON
SAYING THAT THE NORTH ATLANTIC
COMMUNITY AND ITS EXTENSIONS IN
THE REST OF THE BRITISH
COMMONWEALTH, THE WAY IT WORKS,
BECAUSE IT "OUGHT TO BE" THE WAY
THE REST OF THE WORLD WORKS, "IS."
THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS...
THOSE PEOPLE ARE THE IDEOLOGUES,
BUT IT REMAINS OUR DREAM THAT
THIS WILL ULTIMATELY BE THE WAY
THE WHOLE WORLD WORKS, AND JUST
AS THE STORY OF THE HUMAN RACE
UP UNTIL THE YEAR 1914, WAS
LIMITLESS VIOLENCE OF STATE
AGAINST STATE, AND THE STORY OF
THE HUMAN RACE SINCE 1945 HAS
BEEN OF THE BANISHING OF THE
FEAR OF VIOLENCE FROM A PORTION,
BUT NOT ALL, OF HUMANITY, I WOULD
SAY WE ARE LIVING THROUGH THE
ADOLESCENCE OF THE HUMAN RACE,
THE TRANSITION FROM THE VIOLENCE
OF THE EARLY INFANCY OF MANKIND,
TO THE POSSIBILITIES OF TOMORROW.
BUT JUST AS WE HAVE COME TO THIS
POINT, THROUGH THE AGENCY OF THE
GENEROSITY OF THE POWER OF THE
DEMOCRACIES, LED BY THE UNITED
STATES, THAT WILL BE TRUE OF THE
NEXT STAGE AS WELL, WHERE THE
RULE OF LAW COMES TO ALL THE PLANET.
THIS IS NOT EMPIRE, THIS IS A
GLOBAL COMMUNITY OF EQUALS, BUT
IT IS A GLOBAL COMMUNITY OF
EQUALS THAT HAS DEPENDED IN THE
PAST, ON THE STRENGTH OF THE
MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY, WHEN THAT
WAS BRITAIN, DEPENDS AT THE
MOMENT ON THE MOST POWERFUL
COUNTRY, WHEN IT'S THE UNITED
STATES, MAY SOMEDAY DEPEND ON
THE STRENGTH OF INDIA, WHO
KNOWS, IT MAY BE SOMEBODY ELSE,
BUT IT IS THE SAME DREAM, AND IT
WILL COME TRUE, AND I THANK YOU
FOR LISTENING TO ME.

[applause]

Watch: David Frum on An End To Evil