Transcript: 3:00 am Handbook, William Ouchi | Sep 24, 2003

Mary Ito sits in a studio made of translucent panes. She's in her late thirties, with short black hair and bangs. She's wearing a pale green suit and a pendant necklace.

She says FROM TRYING TO SOOTHE YOUR SICK BABY. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO OR WHO TO CALL, BUT DON'T WORRY, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. DR. JEREMY FREEDMAN AND HIS COLLEAGUES AT HOSPITAL FOR SICK CHILDREN DEVELOPED A BOOK JUST FOR YOU. IT'S CALLED THE 3 A.M. HAND BOOK, THE MOST COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR CHILD'S HEALTH...

Jeremy is in his fifties, balding, with a trimmed goatee. He's wearing glasses, a black suit and a blue shirt.
A picture of his book appears briefly on screen. The cover features a picture of a woman kissing a girl who is tucked in bed with a doll.

Mary continues WE HAVE THREE COPIES OF THE BOOK TO GIVE TO VIEWERS WHOSE QUESTIONS MAKE IT TO AIR. GIVE US A CALL. MAYBE YOUR BABY WON'T STOP CRYING. MAYBE YOU ARE WONDERING WHAT VACCINATIONS YOUR CHILD NEEDS OR MAYBE LIKE TO KNOW WHERE YOUR BABY GETS SO MANY RASHES. THE NUMBER TO DIAL, OR YOU CAN SEND US AN E-MAIL, THE ADDRESS IS...

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
Then, it changes to "moretolife@tvo.org"

Mary continues WELCOME. THANKS FOR COMING IN. WE WERE JUST HAVING A CHAT BEFORE YOU STARTED. YOU TOLD ME YOU HAVE TWO YOUNG CHILDREN, 2 AND 4. I HAVE TO ASK YOU, IN REAL LIFE, RIGHT, IS THE PRACTICE OF BEING A PARENT A LOT DIFFERENT FROM THE ADVICE THAT'S DISPENSED BY MEDICAL DOCTORS.

The caption changes to "Doctor Jeremy Friedman. Pediatrician."

Jeremy says I USUALLY TRY TO KEEP THAT A BIT OF A SECRET. I THINK THE TRUTH IS THAT BEING A PARENT IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE I HAVE EVER HAD PERSONALLY AND AS I ACTUALLY SAID IN THE PREFACE OF THE BOOK, I THINK THE TENURES I SPENT TRAINING TO BE A PEDIATRICIAN WAS AN ABSOLUTE CAKE WALK COMPARED TO THE FIRST FOUR YEARS OF BEING A PARENT. IT REALLY IS, SO MUCH LESS PREDICTABLE AND IT IS SO MUCH MORE EEMOTIONAL STRESS THAT IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH.

Mary says TIMES THEY DIDN'T TEACH ME THIS IN MEDICAL SCHOOL.

Jeremy says THAT'S WHAT I SAY TO MY WIFE JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY.

Mary says I HAVE TO ASK YOU, AS FAR AS THE EMERGENCY, THAT CAN BE A VERY BUSY PLACE FOR PARENTS UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, BRINGING SICK KIDS IN, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. HOW AUFERN DO PARENTS MAKE UNNECESSARY TRIPS TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM? WHEN I SAY UNNECESSARY, OF COURSE IT SEEMS NECESSARY TO THEM BUT UNNECESSARY IN THE FACT THAT THEY DIDN'T NEED EMERGENCY CARE FOR THEIR CHILD TO GET BETTER?

Jeremy says I THINK IT IS MORE COMMON THAN PEOPLE REALIZE. I THINK THAT WHEN THE, SAY THE EMERGENCY ROOM AT THE SICK CHILDREN HOSPITAL HAS LOOKED AT THEIR STATISTICS ABOUT HOW MANY OF THOSE CHILDREN REALLY NEED TO BE IN AN EMERGENCY ROOM AT A HOSPITAL LIKE SICK KIDS, IT IS PROBABLY ONLY 10 OR 20 PERCENT OF THE CHILDREN THAT ARE ACTUALLY SEEN THERE. THAT MIGHT SOUND QUITE STARTLING. THEY DO NEAT HELP. DO THEY NEED IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM AT SICK KISD? PROBABLY NOT. BUT THEY DO NEED HELP. I THINK THAT I WOULD HATE TO SEE PARENTS SAYING, I DON'T WANT TO BOTHER THE PEOPLE THERE, THEY ARE REALLY BUSY WITH LIFE AND DEATH STUFF. I AM JUST GOING TO SORT OF WAIT UNTIL IN THE MORNING. I THINK THEY NEED SOME OTHER WAY OF KNOWING HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS. AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG REASONS FOR ACTUALLY WRITING THIS BOOK WAS TO TRY AND GIVE PARENTS AN IDEA OF WHAT CAN WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT MORNING AND WHAT CAN'T. AND ALSO, I THINK THAT IT IS... IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT OUR WHOLE MEDICAL SYSTEM THAT PARENTS ARE FEELING THE NEED TO COME INTO THE EMERGENCY ROOM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, THAT THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO GET SOMEBODY ON THE OTHER END OF THE TELEPHONE. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A REFLECTION ON THE MEDICAL, SORT OF SYSTEM AS IT IS. PERHAPS IF THEY COULD SPEAK TO SOMEBODY, THEY MIGHT VERY WELL BE REASSURED BY THAT.

Mary says HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL ALSO TRY TELEHEALTH.

Jeremy says THERE ARE AN OPTION AND A LOT OF FAMILY DOCTORS OR PEDIATRICIANS THAT DO OFFER SOME SORT OF AFTER HOURS SERVICE. AND I THINK THE MORE THAT THAT'S UTILIZED, THE LESS THE EMERGENCY ROOMS WILL BE NEED TO BE UTILIZED.

Mary says I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW, WHAT'S THE MOST COMMON REASON FOR PARENTS TO BRING CHILD INTO EMERGE?

Jeremy says I THINK OVERALL PROBABLY FEVER WOULD BE THE MOST COMMON. PEOPLE SEE THEIR CHILDREN HAVING A FEVER AND ARE IMMEDIATELY A LITTLE BIT FREAKED OUT BY IT AND I THINK THAT THERE'S EVEN A NAME FOR IT, FEVER PHOBIA. AND I THINK A LITTLE BIT OF IT IS OUR OWN FAULT, BECAUSE AUFERN THE FIRST QUESTION THAT WE ASK IS HOW HIGH WAS THE FEVER? AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT IN THE BOOK. IT'S NOT REALLY THE HEIGHT OF A FEVER THAT IS IMPORTANT. IT IS ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS. IT IS WHAT THE DATA REALLY LOOKS LIKE. IF YOUR CHILD HAS A FEVER, AND STOPPED EATING STILL EATING, STILL PLAYING, STILL ACTING INAPPROPRIATELY. IT IS VERY UNLIKELY TO BE SOMETHING SERIOUS.

Mary says CAN A CHILD HAVE A FAIRLY HIGH FEVER AND STILL BE ACTING NORMAL AND PLAYING, YOU KNOW, GOING ABOUT THEIR OWN BUSINESS?

Jeremy says ABSOLUTELY. IF YOU THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMON INFECTIONS THAT CHILDREN GET IN THE FIRST YEAR OF LIFE. ROSEOLA WOULD BE ONE EXAMPLE. THE CLASSIC TEXTBOOK DESCRIPTION IS VERY HIGH FEVER IN A CHILD WHICH GOES ON FOR THREE OR FOUR DAYS AND THEN SUDDENLY THE FEVER BREAKS AND A ROBBER COMES OUT. THERE IS REALLY NO MEDICAL INTRNINGZ, JUST SUPPORTIVE, FLUIDS KIND OF TLC, AND YOU KNOW, IF YOU WENT BY THE HEIGHT OF THE FEVER CAN GET AS HIGH AS 40 degrees. OOH THAT CHILD IS REALLY SICK. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CHILD, THEY ARE STILL PLAYING ACCIDENT STILL EATING, WHEN THE FEVER COMES DOWN, KIND OF GETTING BACK TO THEIR NORMAL SELF, THAT'S REASSURING.

Mary says FIRST, LET'S LOOK AT THE DANGEROUS CASE. WHEN IS IT WARRANTED TO BRING IN A CHILD, YOU KNOW TO EMERGE BECAUSE OF A HIGH FEVER?

Jeremy says I THINK THERE ARE A FEW SCENARIOS WHERE IT IS A NO BRAINER, YOU HAVE TO COME IN. ANY CHILD IN THE FIRST MONTH OF LIFE. SO ANY CHILD IN THE FIRST MONTH OF LIFE, EVEN BETWEEN 1 AND 3 MONTHS, A LITTLE BIT KIND OF INCREASED SORT OF SENSITIVITY TO IT AND NOT THE FEVER THAT WE ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT. THE FEVER WON'T DO THE CHILD HARM BUT IT CAN BE A SIGN OF A SERIOUS UNDERLYING INFECTION. AND ANY CHILDREN THE FIRST MONTH OF LIFE, IT MIGHT BE THE ONLY SIGN. IN AN OLDER CHILD, THEY ARE GOING TO BE A LOT OF OTHER SIGNS BUT THE SORT OF SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF SERIOUS INFECTION IN THE FIRST MONTH OF LIFE ARE MUCH LESS SPECIFIC SO YOU CAN BE FOOLED BECAUSE IT MIGHT JUST BE A FEVER. SO FEVER IN THE FIRST MONTH OF LIFE, ABSOLUTELY. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, YOU BRING THE CHILD IN FOR MEDICAL ATTENTION. SO THAT IS A GIVEN. AND THEN I THINK CHILDREN THAT HAVE IMMUNE PROBLEMS, SO SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO, SAY, HAVE A CANCER OR SOMETHING AND ON TREATMENT OR YOU A SUPPRESSED IMMUNE SYSTEM, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THEN A FEVER COULD POTENTIALLY BE A MEDICAL EMERGENCY BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE NORMAL RESPONSE TO AN INFECTION.

Mary says BUT AGAIN, IT IS AN INDICATION OF SOMETHING GOING ON, RIGHT?

Jeremy says RIGHT.

Mary says WE MUST STRESS THAT THE FEVER IN ITSELF IS USUALLY NOT HARMFUL.

Jeremy says EXACTLY. IT'S A SYMPTOM. SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT A FEVER IS A POSITIVE THING BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A SCIENTIFIC BASIS, THE FEVER ACTUALLY KICK STARTS THE IMMUN IT'S. SO IT ACTUALLY IS A SIGN THAT YOUR BODY IS RESPONDING APPROPRIATELY TO THE INFECTION.

Mary says RIGHT.

Jeremy says AND SOFERT SETS OFF YOUR PROTECTIVE IMMUNE RESPONSES.

Mary says IS THAT ACCEPTED? I HEARD THAT THEORY BEFORE THAT, THE ELEVATED BODY TEMPERATURE MAKES THE ENVIRONMENT MORE HOSTILE TO FOREIGN, YOU KNOW, BAD THINGS COMING IN YOU.

Jeremy says IT DOES. IT ALSO ON A SORT OF CELLULAR LEVEL SETS OFF THE VARIOUS SORT OF SUBSTANCES THAT ACTUALLY ARE PART OF THE IMMUNE RESPONSE AND PART OF YOUR OWN BODY'S DEFENSE AGAINST INFECTION. SO, YES, I THINK A FEVER IS, A POSITIVE SIGN THAT YOUR BODY IS RESPONDING APPROPRIATELY TO WHATEVER THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM IS.

Mary says SO IF WE TOOK THAT THINKING THEN HOW DO WE KNOW WHEN TO TREAT A FEVER?

Jeremy says WELL, I THINK THE ONLY REASON TO TREAT A FEVER IS IF A CHILD SEEMS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT. I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE ACCIDENT SEE OUR CHILD HAS A HIGH FEVER AND THEY ARE, THEY ARE REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE, SO WHETHER IT IS DUE TO MUSCLE ACHES AND PAINS OR HEADACHE OR THEY ARE JUST REALLY KIND OF VERY CRANKY AND THEN USE IBUPROFEN TO BRING THE FEVER DOWN. BECAUSE REALLY, IT WILL MAKE THEM FEEL BETTER. AND THEN AND THEN SO I THINK THAT THERE IS A ROLE FOR THAT. BUT IN THE OTHER CASES WHERE THE CHILD HAS A FEVER, BUT AS I SAY, STILL PRETTY HAPPY THAT THERE'S NO REAL ADVANTAGE IN BRINGING IT DOWN.

Mary says I ALSO HEARD THOUGH THAT IF A CHILD HAS A HIGH FEVER AND LET'S SAY YOU DO GIVE THE CHILD HEAD KAINGZ FEVER COMES DOWN. AND IT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT GIVING THE MEDICATION CONSISTENTLY BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, THE FEVER COULD JUST SPIKE AGAIN AND THAT COULD CAUSE PROBLEMS. IS THAT TRUE?

Jeremy says WELL, I THINK PROBABLY WHAT YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT IS SOMETIMES WHEN CHILDREN IN THE FIRST FIVE OR SIX YEARS OF LIFE, WHEN THEIR FEVER IS ON THE SORT OF SPIKE UPWARDS, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY GET A CONVULSION OR FEVER WITH THE FEVER. AND THAT IS INCREDIBLY SCARY FOR A PARENT TO WATCH. IT IS NOT UNCOMMON IT HAPPENS IN FIVE PERCENT OF ALL KIDS OR ONE OUT OF 20 CHILDREN. BUT THE TRUTH IS, NOT ACTUALLY DANGEROUS. AND IT IS TERRIBLE, YEAH. IT IS NOT REALLY DANGEROUS TO THE CHILD. AND I THINK WHEN THE FEVER IS UP. THAT IS A POTENTIAL PROBLEM FANATICLY IN THE FIRST TWO OR THREE YEARS OF LIFE. AND REALLY, I THINK WHEN YOU TREAT A FEVER, IT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IF YOU WILL GET A CONVULSION OR NOT. A LOT OF STUDIES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE CONTROLLED THE FEVER VERY CAREFULLY AND YET CHILDREN WHO ARE PRONE TO THE CONVULSIONS STILL SEEM TO HAVE CON VULINGDZS.

Mary says THAT'S THE QUESTION FOR ME. AND GIVE US MEDICATION, HOW DO I KNOW WHEN TO STOP? IF THAT FEVER SHOOTS UP, I AM WORRIED.

Jeremy says NO, THAT IS AN UNNECESSARY WORRY. I THINK WHEN PARENTS DO WHEN TREATING A FEVER. THEY DO UNDER TREAT ASK THEN THE CONTAINER, AND THE AND AND NEN A DOSE OF THE LOWER LIMITS OF WHAT WE NORMALLY GIVE. I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO BE GETTING TOO MUCH. AND OFTEN PEOPLE WILL EITHER USE THAT OR MAYBE EVEN USE A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN IS ON THE BOX. AND IT TENDS TO BE SOMETIMES MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN WE WOULD PROBABLY USE IT. AND COMING TO OUR OFFICE OR THE EMERGENCY ROOM. AND THEN, THEY ARE ALSO KIND OF RE-- IN THE CASE OF ACEMIN- A MIGHT GO A LITTLE LONGER. SOMETIMES THEY DO UNDER TREAT IT. AND THEN GETTING TO THAT POINT THAT YOUR CHILD IS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE FEVER, AND NOT COMING DOWN AND COMING BACK UP AGAIN. AND WHAT SHOULD I BE DOING.

Mary says SO AGAIN YOUR CHILD IS THE BEST INDICATOR. HOW YOUR CHILD ACTS, YEAH.

Jeremy says AND SORT OF PRINCIPLE IS, TREAT THE CHILD, NOT THE THERMOMETER.

Mary says OKAY. LET'S TAKE A CALL. WE HAVE DORENE ON THE LINE.

The caller says THIS IS A GREAT SHOW. I HAVE A 14 MONTH OLD, WHEN SHE GETS A COLD, SHE HAS ONE RIGHT NOW. AND THE YELLOW MUCUS. AND THEN THE NUTRITION THAT SHE'LL BE PRESCRIBED AN ANTIBIOTIC AND TRYING TO AVOID ANTIBIOTICS RIGHT NOW.

Jeremy says THAT GIVES US A GOOD CHANCE TO TALK. AND VERY, VERY COMMON SCENARIO. AND THEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE IT, I THINK THIS IS DOCTORS AS WELL AS PATIENTS. AND IF THE Z KREINGZ. AND ARE YELLOW OR GREEN. AND THEN THAT IS NOT TRUE. THAT IS NOT TRUE. AND PEOPLE WILL SORT OF A LOT OF ALERNLY SYMPTOMS OR EVEN JUST VIRAL INFECTIONS CAN'T HAVE YELLOW OR GREEN Z KREINGZS FROM THEIR NOSE. I WOULD AGREE WITH DOREEN, A CHILD THAT HAS A COLD THAT GOES ON TO GET NASAL FIX Z KREINGZS DOES NOT NECESSARILY QUALIFY FOR AN ANTIBODY. AS YOU KNOW, VIRAL INFECTION AND NOT ONLY WON'T IT HELP. AND YOU RUN INTO THE POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS. AND THEN, RUNNING INTO NOW IS GERMS THAT ARE BECOMING RESISTANT TO THE ANTIBODIES, THAT DOESN'T ALL GO WELL FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. AND THEN USING THE ANTIBODIES. AND THEN DESCRIBING THE NL INDICATION TO USE AN ANTIBODY IS IF THE CHILD HAS GONE ON TO AN EAR INFECTION. USUALLY, IT IS FAIRLY CLEAR, AND THE OLDER THE CHILD GETS, THE EASIER IT S. YOU WILL SEE A LITTLE BIT OF FEVER COMING WITH AN EAR INFECTION OR SOME VERY LOCAL KIND OF SYMPTOMS WHERE THE CHILD IS PULLING ON THEIR EAR OR, YOU KNOW, BANGING ON THEIR EAR OR INDICATING THAT THERE'S SOME PAIN THERE. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE PHYSICIAN LOOKS IN THE EAR, THEY SHOULD REALLY SEE A SIGNIFICANT SIGN OF AN INFECTION BEHIND THE EARDRUM AND THEN, CERTAINLY IN CANADA THESE DAYS, MOST OF US WOULD STILL SUGGEST USING AN ANTIBODY FOR THAT. AND THAT IS NOT FOR THE COLD AND IT IS NOT FOR THE NASAL Z KREINGZ, THAT REALLY DOESN'T QUALIFY FOR AN DENT BODY UNLESS IT HAS GONE ON FOR SORT OF 10 DAYS PLUS, WHICH HONESTLY NEVER HAPPENS.

Mary says I HEARD SOME DOCTORS NOW EVEN HAVE A WAIT AND SEE ATTITUDE TOWARDS EAR INFECTIONS.

Jeremy says I THINK YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THAT IS BECOMING MORE FASHIONABLE AND IN CERTAIN CASES IN EUROPE AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY THE PRACTICE. BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY KNOW THAT AT LEAST HALF OF EAR INFEKS ARE CAUSED BY VIRUSES. SO GIVE BE AN ANTIBIOTIC WILL NOT HAPPEN QUICKER. YOU KNOW HALF THE TIME YOU GIVE AN ANTIBODY IT IS PROBABLY NOT NECESSARY, THE THE PROBLEM IS, IT IS NOT KNOW WHICH HALF NEED IT AND WHICH HALF DOES. HOW UNWELL THEY ARE. MY FEELING WOULD BE JUST EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED, IF THE CHILD IS NOT PARTICULARLY UNWELL WITH IT ANDINGS FSES FIND SKPTION SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS ARE NOT THAT CLEAR CUT, NOT MUCH TO BE LOSS BY WAITING 48 HOURS AND SAYING, OKAY, LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON THE 48 HOURS. IF IT IS VIRAL, PROBABLY GOING TO SETTLE DOWN AND THINGS WILL BE GETTING BETTER.

Mary says 48 HOURS IS THE BREAKING POINT?

Jeremy says TWO OR THREE DAYS, THE SYMPTOMS ARE GETTING WORSE AND THE FEVER IS GOING UP AND CHILD SEEMS TO BE IN MORE PAIN. YOU CAN START THE ANTIBODIES FROM THAT POINT.

Mary says AND A LOT OF TIMES, FOR PARENTS. AND AND AND UNCOMFORTABLE OR AT ALL, NOT THEIR NORMAL SELF BUT, YEAH, MAYBE I SHOULD WAIT.

Jeremy says AND GIVING A GOOD SORT OF THERAPEUTIC DOZE OR SOMETHING. USUALLY PROBABLY THE EFFECT OF PART OF THE PAIN RELIEVE PARTICULARLY IN THE FIRST 24 HOURS. BECAUSE THE ANTIBODY TAKES AWHILE TO WORK. NOT SUGGESTING LEAVING THEM ALONE COMPLETELY BUT SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT UNCOMFORTABLE AND WAIT AND SEE IF THEY CAN FIND IT THEMSELVES. IN CERTAIN CASES WHERE IT IS SO CLEAR CUT, SUCH A CLASSIC SORT OF EAR INFECTION AND SEEM UNCOMFORTABLE, NOT FAIR TO WAIT, A LOT OF CASES WHERE THE DOCTOR IS NOT SURE, THEY LOOK IN THE EAR AND THE CHILD IS SCREAMING, THE EARDRUM IS READ, YOU KNOW, IT IS...

Mary says THE STREAMING PROBABLY DOES IT.

Jeremy says AND YEAH, IN THAT CASE. AND ROOM TO SAY LET'S JUST WAIT A COUPLE OF DAYS.

Mary says AND HI, TRIS EEN.

The caller says I AM SORE, I JUST HAD A QUESTION, MY SON JUST TURNED 13 MONTHS OLD AND HE IS SUSCEPTIBLE TO EAR INFECTION. HE HAS HAD SIX THIS YEAR AND I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS TO TAKE AND IF IT IS TUBES AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO ABOUT THAT?

Mary says SIX EAR infections THIS YEAR.

Jeremy says CHRISTINE, YOU MUST HAVE HAD A ROUGH TIME, THAT IS A LOT OF EAR INFECTIONS IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. AND A LOT OF SLEEPLESS NIGHTS AND CERTAINLY THAT IS A LOT TO GO THROUGH. AND IT IS CONTROVERSIAL. I THINK THERE ARE DIFFERENT ANSWERS TO THAT QUESTION. AND IN TERMS OF JUST GENERALLY WHAT DO WE KNOW THAT SEEMS TO MAYBE HELP A LITTLE BIT WITH DECREASING EAR INFEKS IN GENERAL, I THINK THERE'S SOME EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT A LOWER INCIDENT OF EAR INFECTION AND BREAST FEEDING A BABY, FOR THE FIRST 6 MONTHS. AND SOME EVIDENCE. AND THE RICK OF INFEKS, CERTAINLY ANY FAMILIES WHERE EITHER THE PARENTS OR ANYONE IN THE HOUSE IS SMOKING. THAT COULD BE SOMETHING TO WORK HARD. AND SMOKES IN THE HOUSE. AND THEN, BUT IT IS NOT IN THE BEDROOM OR WHATEVER, STILL TRYING TO GET RID OF THE SECONDHAND SMOKE ALL TOGETHER. SO THOSE ARE TWO THINGS THAT IN GENERAL DO SEEM AND YEAH, IT HAS NOT BEEN CLARIFIED, THOUGH THERE ARE SOME CHILDREN WHERE THE ANATOMY IS A BIT DIFFERENT. SOMEBODY WITH DOWN SYNDROME. YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT THEM TO GET MORE... BECAUSE THE SHAPE OF THE HEAD IS DIFFERENT. THE PEOPLE WITH EAR INFECTIONS, AND AND REAL TRUE INFEKS IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, YOU START TO WORRY ABOUT POSSIBLE EFFECT OS HEARING AND CERTAINLY WOULD SUGGEST THAT CHRISTINE LOOK AT IF YOUR CHILD HAS NOT HAD O. SO I THINK THAT IF THERE IS EFFECT ON THE HEARING, IT CERTAINLY MAKES YOU WANT TO INTERVENE MUCH QUICKER AND YOU MIGHT OTHERWISE. AND I AND THEN THERE ARE SIX EAR INFECTIONS TO BE TREATED WITH ANTIBODIES, THAT IS KIND OF THE FREQUENCY TO START THINKING ABOUT, PERHAPS PUTTING TUBES, AND TUBES INTO THE EARS, THAT IS A POSSIBILITY. OR IN YEARS GONE BY, PEOPLE HAD ALSO USED ANTIBIOTICS ON THE SORT OF PROVE LAKTIC BASES, WHERE YOU USE A LITTLE BIT OF ANTIBIOTIC EVERY DAY TO PREVENT THAT. THAT HAS GONE OUT OF FATIONS.

Mary says I HADN'T HEARD OF THAT.

Jeremy says THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IN YEARS GONE BY, PEOPLE HAVE DONE. AND THEN I THINK THE MOST POPULAR SORT OF, TREATMENT IS TO, BUT IT IS PETTY CONTROVERSIAL, AND THERE'S CERTAINLY...

Mary says WHAT IS THE CONTROVERSY.

Jeremy says DID IT REALLY CHANGE THE OUTCOME?

Mary says WHAT DO THE STATS SHOW AS FAR AS SUCCESS RATE.

Jeremy says AND IT DEPENDS WHO YOU ANSWER. IF YOU ASK THE EAR, NOSE AND THROAT SURGEONS THAT PUT THE TUBES IN, SHOW YOU STUDIES THAT SUPPORT THAT IT IS A GOOD INTERVENTION AND IT SEEMS TO BE HELPFUL AND LESS EAR INFEKS AND THEN THE MORE SCEPTICAL PEOPLE CAN SHOW YOU SOME STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT IT IS NOT A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN LANGUAGE DEVELOPMENT AND HEARING. DIAGRAM AND SO IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO PUT AND SO, IT IS KIND OF THESE THINGS, MAKE A DECISION

Mary says WOULD THAT BE THE ONLY DOWN SIDE, THE FACT THAT PUTTING THESE CHILDREN THROUGH THE, YOU KNOW... THE OPERATION OR IS THERE ACTUALLY A RISK AS WELL INVOLVED?

Jeremy says AND I THINK THE MAJOR RISK IS THE ACTUAL OPERATION. AND THE GENERAL AN STETIC AND THE MAJOR RISK.

Mary says BUT WHERE IS IT.

Jeremy says NO, I THINK IT IS A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. AND A LITTLE HELLO TUBE TA GETS STUCK IN THE EARDRUM. AND IT JUST SITS THERE. AND THE MIDDLE EAR BEHIND THE EARDRUM. AND THEN A CLOSED POCKET WHERE THE PRESSURE CAN GO WITH THAT, IT GIVES IT AWAY. AND GENERALLY AND AN OPERATION AND IT IS A VERY SAFE OPERATION. AND YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THE INFECTION, GET THE TUBES PUT IN AND DOING PRETTY WELL AFTERWARDS, I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF OPINION, BUT CHRISTINE DEFINITELY WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THE 13 MONTH OLD, ALREADY HAD SIX YEAR INFEKS AND THATY THE KIND OF THINKING. IF THAT SHOWS SOMETHING THEN CERTAINLY WOULD BE LOOKING FOR.

Mary says AND LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL. HI. GO AHEAD.

The caller says MY QUESTION IS ABOUT, CROOPS. AND THEN MY BABY WAITS WITH THAT HORRIBLE COUGH. AND THE ER.

Jeremy says THE FANCY NAME IS THE BRONCHITIS BUT NOBODY CALLS IT THAT. AND THE VIRUS INFECTION OF THE VOICE BOX AREA. AND PARTICULARLY HAPPENS IN THE FALL AND SPRING AND PROBABLY SEE A FAIR AMOUNT OF CRO, P COMING UP IN THE NEXT LITTLE WHILE. ONE PARTICULAR VIRUS, BUT SOMETHING CALLED THE PA RA UNINFLU END A VIRUS. AND KAUDZING CROOP BUT A LOT OF OTHERS CAN DO IT AS WELL. BECAUSE YOU GET SWELLING AX ROUND THE VOICE BOX. DEAD AND THEN YOU GET IT SORT OF AND THEN AND THAT'S THE KIND OF SYMPTOM. AND THEN THE COUGH AND I GUESS SHE WANTS TO KNOW, IS THAT ENOUGH FOR ME TO GO AND LOOK FOR ATTENTION OR CAN I WAIT AND SEE HOW IT DEVELOPS. AND I THINK, THAT'S VERY, VERY COMMON. AND THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY AND TRYING TO SORT OF HELP THE CHILD, PROBABLY HUMIDITY IS THE BEST THING AND THEN PARENTS TOO TAKE THE CHILD INTO THE BATHROOM, PUT THE SORT OF HOT TAPS ON FOR THE SHOWER, SAY, FOR EXAMPLE AND GET A NICE STEAM GOING, YOU KNOW HOW THE GLASS CAN STEAM UP COMPLETELY AND LET THE CHILD JUST BREATHE IN THAT STEAM, AND THEN ALL IN... IF THE WEATHER IS NOT TOO COLD, TAKE THEM OUTSIDE BECAUSE THE HUMIDITY TENDS TO BE HIGHER OUTSIDE THAN INSIDE. ANOTHER OPTION AS WELL. AND ANYTHING THAT GETS A GOOD SORT OF HUMIDITY OR MIST MIGHT PROVE THE SYMPTOMS. IF IT PROGRESSES FORWARD. AND DIFFICULTY BREATHING. AND HIGHLY TALENTED CHILD BREATHING OR BREATHING VERY QUICKLY. SO IT IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE BREATHING QUICKLY, THAT WILL BE ONE THING. IF THEY ARE EVERY TIME THEY TAKE A BREATH AND MAKING A HUGE EFFORT, SORT OF, KIND OF SUCKING IN, YOU CAN USUALLY SEE JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOVE THE BREAST BONE, AN AREA HERE THAT GETS SUCKED IN WITH EVERY BREATH OR GETS SUCKED IN, INTER COSTAL RECESSION, YOU KNOW, IT JUST SHOWS THEY ARE MAKING A HUGE EFFORT TO TAKE IN AIR. IF YOU SEE THEIR NOSTRILS FLAIRING WITH EACH BREATH, THOSE WILL BE SIGNS THAT THE BABY IS ACTUALLY STRUGGLING FOR BREATH AND AT THAT POINT, I WOULD AGREE IT IS EXTREMELY SCARY AND YOU DON'T WASTE TIMES, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, BUT THAT ACTUALLY WOULD APPLY TO A SMALL MINORITY, MOSTLY KIDS GET AWAY WITH THE BARKY, YOU KNOW, TERRIBLE COUGH, BUT OFFER THREE OR FOUR DAYS, JUST LIKE MOE MOST VIRUS, SETTLES DOWN BY ITSELF AND THERE ISN'T REALLY ANY MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR THAT DEGREE OF ILLNESS. IF IT MOVES ON TO A POINT WHERE THEY ARE HAVING TROUBLE BREATHING...

Mary says YOU ARE TREATING THAT PROBLEM.

Jeremy says AND THE STEROIDS, AN ANTI INFLAMMATORY BUT, A MORE SEVERE.

Mary says AND DO CHILDREN AND IF THEY ARE SICK AT NIGHT, WHICH IS ANOTHER...

Jeremy says NO, IT IS NOT YOUR IMAGINATION.

Mary says ANOTHER REASON WHY YOU CALL IT THE 3 A.M. HAND BACK. AND I HAVE A CHILD. IT HAS HAPPENED SO AUFERN WITH ME. I AM DREADING THE NIGHT. I KNOW THAT FEVER IS GOING TO GET WORSE OR WHATEVER. DO WE KNOW WHY?

Jeremy says WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, IN CHILDREN, ASTHMA, A CLASSIC CASE WHERE, IN FACT, YOU ARE RIGHT. IF GOING TO HAVE A BAD ASTHMA ATTACK. AND MOST COMMONLY OCCURS IN THE EARLY HOURS OF THE MORNING, I THINK THE THEORY IS, IT IS DUE TO THE SORT OF RHYTHM, THE BODY'S RHYTHM OF PRODUCING ITS OWN HORMONES AND IT IS SORT OF, AND LOWEST WHEN THEY ARE ASLEEP IN THE MIDDLE OF TRITE. PROBABLY DON'T NEED A LOT OF HORMONES FLOATING AROUND AND AS MATICS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND TO KEEP THE BRONCHIAL TUBES OPEN AND AS IT GOES DOWN, MORE LAKELY TO RUN INTO TROUBLE.

Mary says THESE HORMONES ARE ACTUALLY HAVING A PROTECTIVE EFENINGT, IS THAT RIGHT. SO IF YOU ARE LOW ON THEM DURING THE NIGHT, IS THAT TYPICAL TO BE LOW DURING NIGHT?

Jeremy says YOU ARE NOT REALLY LOW, YOU ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE... FOR THE NORMAL BODY FUNKS BUT AS MATIC AND OFF BALANCE, IT MIGHT TIP YOU OVER INTEREST AN ATTACK.

Mary says THAT'S INTERESTING. DOES THAT MEAN YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS STRONGER IN THE DAY?

Jeremy says NOT REALLY, I DON'T THINK A REAL ABNORMALITY BUT IT WOULD PUSH YOU OVER THE EDGE A LITTLE BIT IF YOU ANSWER SOMETHING LIKE ASTHMA. I GUESS THE ONLY REASON, PARENTS ARE TIRED AND SLEEP DEPRIVED AND THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME FOR THINGS TO GO WRONG.

Mary says THAT'S THE MOST OBVIOUS REASON. LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL. KIM IS ON THE LINE FROM GUELPH.

The caller says I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION ABOUT TAKING TEMPERATURES ON CHILDREN, OTHER THAN DOING IT REKTALLY, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY. I HAVE A LITTLE GUY JUST OVER 2, AND I HAVE BEEN TAKING IT UNDER THE WARM KP NOW OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING TAKE IT IN THE EAR. SO I AM JUST WONDERING WHAT'S THE BEST WAY?

Mary says THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

Jeremy says AND I MUST SAY, I'M A BIT CONFUSED BY THAT AS WELL. I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE A BIT CONFUSED. I THINK THE MOST ACCURATE WAY SAY RECTAL TEMPERATURE.

Mary says TOO BAD, KIM.

Jeremy says BUT MOST PEOPLE REALLY JUST DON'T WANT TO DO THAT AND CERTAINLY TWO YEAR OLD CHILD IS NOT GOING TO APPRECIATE HAVING A THERMOMETER PLACED THERE. SO IT'S NOT PRACTICAL. I THINK THE ONE TIME YOU UPON DO WANT A RECTAL TEMPERATURE IS IN BABIES IN THE FIRST MONTH OR TWO OF LIFE WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THOSE BABIES, IF THEY HAVE A FEVER, THEY HAVE TO BE SEEN URGENTLY AND THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. SO RECTAL TEMPERATURES IN THE FIRST FEW MONTHS OF LIFE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. ONE SHOULDN'T REALLY BE TAKE TING EVERYWHERE ELSE. ONCE YOU GET TO THE AGE OF 2, THE OPTIONS, THE NEWEST OPING IS THE EAR AT THE MOMENT.

Mary says I HAVE HEARD CONTROVERSIAL THINGS, YOU DIDN'T PUT IT IN FAR ENOUGH, DIFFERENT READING.

Jeremy says IT IS BASED ON A LIGHT THAT GOES OUT FROM THE THERMOMETER THAT HAS TO HIT THE MEMBRANE, SO SAY FOR EXAMPLE A LOST WAX IN THE EAR OR YOU HAVE A PARTICULARLY WINDY EAR CANAL, IT CAN LET YOU DOWN. SO IT'S NOT TERRIBLY ACCURATE AND YOU COULD BE HALF A DEGREE OUT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I WOULDN'T SORT OF, YOU KNOW, LIVE OR DIE BY EAR TEMPERATURE BUT THEN, ARMPIT TEMPERATURES ARE EQUALLY AS UNRELIABLE. SO THEY ARE BOTH IMPERFECT MEASURE IT IS. TAKING TEMPERATURE IN THE MOUTH IS AN OPTION BUT I THINK A TWO YEAR OLD IS TOO YOUNG. MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY BY THE TIME FOUR OR FIVE, COOPERATE WELL ENOUGH TO TAKE ORAL TEMPERATURE AND THAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE WAY TO GO. I BEING BACK TO THE EARLIER POINT, NOT THE HEIGHT OF THE TEMPERATURE, WOULD I BE THAT WOR ED? A THERMOMETER AT HOME. NO. IF MY TWO YEAR OLD FEELS HOT, I AM NOT LOOKING FOR THE HEIGHT OF THE TEMPERATURE. AND THEN, AND PLAY FOR, AND THE OTHER THINGS, SO I'M NOT THAT KIND OF CONCERNED ABOUT THE HEIGHT OF THE TEMPERATURE. TAKE TING UNDER THE ARMER ON THE EAR.

Mary says I HAVE TO ASK YOU, SO INTERESTING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A THERMOMETER AT HOME. SO IF IS REALLY NOT IMPORTANT ABOUT HOW HIGH IT GOES, SHOULD WE NOT EVEN BETTER TAKING TEMPERATURES AT ALL.

Jeremy says AND PROBABLY BE SHOT.

Mary says JUST PUTTING A WHOLE INDUSTRY OUT OF BUSINESS.

Jeremy says I THINK MAYBE I'M OVER EXAGGERATING A LITTLE BIT TO MAKE THE POINT. I THINK DOCTORS, DO THEY IS A TEMPERATURE AND HOW HIGH IS IT. PROBABLY SOMEWHAT AND A PIECE OF THE PUZZLEMENT BUT DON'T GET HUNG UP OVER IT AND NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE. IT DOES GIVE US A BIT OF A CLUE IN TERMS OF AN OBJECTIVE MEASURE THAT THE CHILD PROBABLY HAS SOME SORT OF INFECTION OR SOMETHING.

Mary says YOU KNOW WHAT I SHOULD ASK YOU. HOW HIGH, HOW HIGH BEFORE YOU ARE WORRIED.

Jeremy says AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF YOU ARE STARTING TO GET THE TEMPERATURE TO 40.5. THAT USUALLY AND GETTING INTO SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS. THE TRUTH IS, EVEN SOMETHING AS SORT OF HARMLESS AS THEN NOT SO MUCH THE HEIGHT AS WHAT THE CHILD LOOKS LIKE. AND AND THAT KIND OF THING, THEY DO LOOK SICKER WITH THOSE HIGH TEMPERATURES. AND THERE IS MORE REASON TO BELIEVE IT.

Mary says OKAY. LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL HERE. IS IT COREY. AND THEN GO AHEAD.

The caller says I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT PEANUTS AND OTHER NUTS. MY SON, HE'S THREE YEARS OLD AND HE GETS A RASH AROUND HIS MOUTH AND COMPLAINS OF ITCHING IN HIS MOUTH FROM EATING PEANUTS AND OTHER NUTS. AND I WAS TOLD THAT, IT MIGHT BE. I SHOULD GIVE HIM PEANUTS EVER SO AUFERN TO BUILD UP A TOLERANCE OVER THIS OVER PEANUTS AND STUFF OR JUST AVOID IT COMPLETELY?

Jeremy says I THINK THE LATTER, I THINK IF HE'S GETTING ITCHYNESS IN HIS MOUTH. AND THEN THAT SOUNDS LIKE HE MIGHT BE ALLERGIC TO PEANUTS AND IF HE IS ALLERGIC, DEFINITELY PEANUTS CAN BE DANGEROUS TO HIM. SO, I THINK THAT GIVING TO HIM, TO BUILD UP THE IMMUNITY IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. I THINK IN A CASE LIKE THAT. I THINK I WOULD WANT TO KNOW FOR SURE WHETHER HE WAS ALLERGIC OR NOT. I THINK SERIOUS ENOUGH, I WOULD SEE AN ALERNLIST OR A FAMILY OR REGULAR DOCTOR. AND WHETHER YOU ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE TESTED OR NOT IS A POSSIBILITY. IF THE CHILD TRULY HAS A PEANUT ALLERGY. IT IS... SAYING ALLERGIC TO PEANUTS, BECAUSE IT IS A POTENTIALLY LETHAL PROBLEM.

Mary says IS IT SORT OF IN DEGREES, COULD YOU HAVE A MILD OR SEVERE ONE?

Jeremy says I THINK YOU CAN. BUT JUST BECAUSE THE FIRST REACTION TO A PEANUT IS NOT THE REACTION WHERE YOU COLLAPSE AND, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY EVEN DIE. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE SECOND OR THIRD TIME, IT CAN'T ESCALATE AND YOU HAVE HAVE A WORSE REACTION. AND THEY NEED TO SEE ALER GIST KP NEED TO WEAR MEDICAL ALERT BRACELET AND CARRY - THAT COULD BE LIFE SAVING IN A KIS LIKE THAT. IT MIGHT BE WE SO UFERN HERE ABOUT FOOD ALLERGIES THAT TURN UP NOT TO BE REAL. SO A DEPENDS ON THE EXACT HISTORY OF IT. AND POTENTIALLY OR SO WHAT THE TESTING SHOWS. BECAUSE I WOULD SAY THAT MOST CASES OF FOOD ALLERGY LIKE WE HEAR ABOUT. REALLY GO THROUGH THE HISTORY CAREFULLY. OFTEN THOT REALLY ALLERGIC TO THAT FOOD. YOU DON'T WANT TO... YOU KIND OF WANT TO HAVE THE DIFFERENT ANSWER.

Mary says COLIC. WHY ARE SOME CHILDREN COLICY AND SOME AREN'T. I WANT YOU TO TELL ME WHY.

Jeremy says NOBODY KNOWS.

Mary says I KNEW THAT. I HAD TO ASK YOU. ON BEHALF OF ALL OF THOSE PARENTS OUT THERE. AND WHEN A CHILD IS COLICY. DO WE EVEN KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING.

Jeremy says I THINK MOST PEOPLE THINK IT IS SOME KIND OF AND DISCOMFORT. AND NOT VERY CLEAR AT ALL. AND YOU KNOW, THERE ARE QUITE A FEW THEORIES BUT I MUST SAY, IT IS NOT REALLY ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. AND THE UNFORTUNATE CONSEQUENCE OF THAT IS, THE NEXT QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU TREAT IT AND BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY CAN'T EXPLAIN IT, AND THE TREATMENTS.

Mary says SO HOW WOULD A DOCTOR EVEN DEFINE COLIC THEN.

Jeremy says I THINK THE EASY DEFINITION WOULD BE JUST AN EXTREME DEGREE OF FUSYNESS, WHEN I SAY FUSY, I MEAN INCONSOLEABLE CRYING THAT YOU CAN'T FEED THE BABY OR CHANGE THE DIPER AND THE BABY WILL SETTLE DOWN, THIS IS CRYING WHERE IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU DO, THE BABY CONTINUES TO CRY.

Mary says USUALLY IF IN THE FIRST FEW WEEKS OF LIFE AND DISAPPEARING BY THREE ON FOUR WEEKS OF SOMENT IN THAT TIME PERIOD.

Jeremy says THERE IS A THREE FORMULA. THREE HOURS, THREE TIMES A WEEK FOR THREE MONTHS. IS THAT... CRYING FOR MORE THAN THREE HOURS A DAY FOR MORE THAN 33 TIMES A WEEK FOR MORE THAN THREE MONTHS, SO, YEAH, THAT'S THE OLD DEF ANYTHING, IT STALE STANDS I THINK PROBABLY SOME BABIES THAT DON'T QUITE FIT THAT BUT HAVE COLIC. I THINK IT IS JUST EXTREME INCONSOLEABLE CRYING, NO SORT OF PHYSICAL REASON THAT YOU CAN FIND AND THEN NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO WITH THOSE BABIES, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO SETTLE DOWN.

Mary says DONE STUDIES ON THE BABIES AND WHETHER, I DON'T KNOW, DOES IT INDICATE ANYTHING DOWN THE ROAD. TURN OUT TO BE, DID AND LESS DIFFICULT CHILDREN? I DENT KNOW. ANY CON CONSEQUENCES OF COLIC.

Jeremy says I THINK A LOT OF STUDIES BECAUSE COLIC IS SUCH A COMMON, AND SORT OF HELP AND INDICATION OF WHAT TO DO. AND I THINK THAT COLICY BABIES GET BETTER AT THE AGE OF THREE. MAXIMUM 4 MONTHS. AND THEN AND THEN GO TO UNIVERSITY, DO WHATEVER ELSE THEY SHOULD AND COMPLETELY WELL FUNCTIONED, NORMAL CHILDREN.

Mary says IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THEY MISSED THOSE TERRIBLE TEENS, THEY GOT RID OF IT EARLY, RIGHT. ANYWAY, WE ARE OUT OF TIME. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN TODAY. THANK YOU FOR THE BOOK. DR. JER 'EM'S FREEDMAN, THE DIRECTOR OF IMPATIENT PEDIATRIC MEDICINE AT THE HOSPITAL FOR KICK ZULD CHEN AND ALSO CON TRIB OAR TO THE THREE A.M. HAND BOOK, THE MOST COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR CHILD'S HEALTH. IT'S PUBLISHED BY KEITH PORTER BOOKS. DOREEIN TORONTO, CHRISTINE AND KIM IN GUELPH. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU. THANKS FOR CALLING IN. STAY TUNED BECAUSE NEXT WE'RE GOING TO COOK UP A RECIPE TO HELP OUR SCHOOLS.

Music plays as fast clips show a National Geographic cover featuring a woman with bright green eyes wearing a red hijab, elephants, a soldier, a submarine, a ritual, a man with blood on his face, a plane, and other images related to nature, culture and technology.

An ad reads "National Geographic Television. Saturday 7 PM. Tuesday 10 pm. TVO."

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "More to Education."

Mary says WHAT MAKES A SCHOOLWORK? IS IT MORE FUNDING, SMARTER STUDENTS? BETTER TEACHERS? MORE PARENTAL INVOLVE.? WELL, PERHAPS NONE OF THE ABOVE SAYS, INSTEAD HE CONNECTICUT TENDS THAT MANAGEMENT AND ACCOUNTABILITY ARE AT THE CORE OF THE SCHOOL'S SUCCESS. HE'S A MANAGEMENT PROFESSOR AT UCLA AND THE AUTHOR OF MAKING SCHOOLS WORK, A REVOLUTIONARY PLAN TO GET YOUR CHILDREN THE EDUCATION THEY NEED. HE'S HERE IN THE STUDIO WITH US TODAY.

William is in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with short curly gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a black suit, blue shirt and striped black tie.
A picture of his book appears briefly on screen. The cover is white and features a picture of children raising their hands in a classroom.

William says HELLO.

Mary says THANKS FOR COMING IN TODAY. NOW YOU STUDIED OVER 200 SCHOOLS IN THE US AND CANADA, INCLUDING WHAT WAS CONSIDERED TO BE THE WORST SCHOOL IN AMERICA, AN ELEMENTARY IN CHICAGO. HOW DID THEY TURN THAT SCHOOL AROUND?

The caption changes to "William Ouchi. 'Making schools work.'"

William says THAT IS A GREAT STORY. IN 1988, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION OF THE US BILL BENNETT WENT TO CHICAGO AND DECLARED THAT CHICAGO HAD THE WORST SCHOOLS IN AMERICA AND THAT GOWDY WAS THE WORST SCHOOL IN CHICAGO. THEREFORE THE WORST SCHOOL IN AMERICA. THEY WERE DEVASTATED. 14 YEARS LATER, UNDER A PRINCIPAL PATRICK DURKIN, A REAL ENTREPRENEUR, THEY HAVE COM PLETLY TURNED THAT SCHOOL AROUND. THE READING SCORES HAVE GONE FROM THE 15TH PERCENTILE TO THE 56TH, MATH SCORES HAVE GONE FROM THE 25TH PERCENT TILE TO THE 63RD. HOW DID PATRICK DO IT? WELL, HE DID IT BY BUCKING THE SYSTEM, BY REFUSING THE FOLLOW ALL OF THE RIGID RULES THAT THE HIERARCHY OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM GAVE HIM, AND INSTEAD, HE CHANGED THE STAFFING OF THE SCHOOL TO SCHEDULE THE SCHOOL AND THE TEACHING PROGRAM, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE SCHOOL CHILDREN OF WHOM 98 PERCENT ARE LOW INCOME, 41 PERCENT ARE LIMITED ENGLISH SPEAKERS, THEY, AT HOME SPEAK 26 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. HE KNEW THAT HIS CHILDREN NEEDED TO HAVE SOME OF THEM MORE ONE-ON-ONE READING INSTRUCTION. WELL, HE COULDN'T AFFORD THAT WITHIN HIS REGULAR BUDGET. SO HE AND HIS TEACHERS COMPLETELY REORGANIZED THE SCHEDULE WHICH ALLOWED THEM TO HAVE ONE TEACHER COVER TWO CLASSES WHEN IT DOESN'T MATTER ACCIDENT THEY FREED UP SOME PO ZUINGS AND SOME MONEY AND HIRED READING COACHES. AND THE TEACHERS THEN ARE ABLE TO TEACH READING AND MATH IN SMALLER CLASSES AND THE CHILDREN WHO NEED IT GET ONE-ON-ONE TUTORING. AND BY FOCUSING THEIR PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY ON THE CHILDREN THEY HAVE, UNLIKE ANY OTHER SCHOOL, NO OTHER SCHOOL IS QUITE LIKE IT IN CHICAGO, THEY HAVE MADE IT A SUCCESS.

Mary says THEY WORKED WITH WHAT THEY HAD IS WHAT YOU ARE DIAGONALING ME.

William says THE SECRET IS THAT. IS THAT NO TWO CHILDREN ARE BEING A ALIKE. BUT NO TWO COLLECTIONS OF CHILDREN IN A SCHOOL ARE ALIKE. AND THEREFORE, NO TWO SCHOOLS SHOULD HAVE QUITE THE SAME STAFFING, THE SAME SCHEDULE, OR THE SAME TEACHING PROGRAM. BUT, MOST SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE STILL TOP-DOWN, COMMAND AND CONTROL, ONE SIZE FITS ALL. THEY DON'T PERMIT THAT.

Mary says WHO KNOWS THE SCHOOL BEST IN ORDER TO DO THAT?

William says THE TEACHERS AND THE PRINCIPAL AND YOU SHOULD LET THEM MAKE THESE DEZUINGS.

Mary says SO, DOES THIS CHANGE THAT'S REFLECTED, DOES THAT REFLECT YOUR MANAGEMENT THEORY?

William says IT DOES. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT, YOU HAVE A PRINCIPAL IN PAT WHO IS AN ENTREPRENEUR, FOUGHT THE SYSTEM. NOW LET'S LOOK AT WHAT I THINK IS PROBABLY THE BEST MANAGED SCHOOL SYSTEM IN NORTH AMERICA, AND THAT'S IN EDMONTON, ALBERTA.

Mary says RIGHT HERE IN CANADA.

William says THE DIFFERENCE IS IN EDMONTON, EVERY PRINCIPAL IS ENCOURAGED TO BE AN ENT PRER NEW. IN EDMONTON, QUENCH PERCENT OF THE FIRST GRADERS ARE READING AT OR ABOVE GRADE LEVEL AND 92 PERCENT OF 12TH GRADERS ARE AT OR ABOVE GRADE LEVEL. NOW WHY IS THAT? WELL THAT'S BECAUSE STARTING 30 YEARS AGO, THE SUPERINTENDENT DECIDED THAT HE HAD TO DELEGATE RESPONSIBILITY AND CONTROL OVER THE MONEY TO EVERY PRINCIPAL. NOW MY STUDIES, FOR EXAMPLE, I FOUND THAT IN NEW YORK CITY, THE AVERAGE PRINCIPAL ONLY CONTROLS 6 PERCENT OF THE MONEY THAT'S SPENT THERE THIS SCHOOL. IN LOS ANGELES, THEY ONLY CONTROL 6 PERCENT. IN EDMONTON, THE AVERAGE PRINCIPAL CONTROLS 92 PERCENT OF THE MONEY IN THEIR SCHOOL SKPL AS A RESULT, THEY CAN CUSTOM FIT THE STAFFING, THE SCHEDULE AND THE TEACHING PROGRAM TO THE EXACT NEEDS OF THE CHILDREN THEY HAVE.

Mary says BUT YOU KNOW, DOES THERE NOT ALSO HAVE TO SOME KIND OF CONSISTENCY IN VISION? DOESN'T THAT COME FROM TOP DOWN?

William says THERE HAS TO BE AN INSISTENCE THAT YOU HAVE A TOTAL FOCUS ON STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT. THERE HAS TO BE A LOT OF CONSISTENCY. IN ADDITION, YOU ARE RIGHT. IF YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE PRINCIPALS THAT MUCH OUGHT NONE ME, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A STRONG MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. SO WHAT IS IT MC-- AND THEN HE MEASURES EACH PRINCIPAL USING THREE ACCOUNTABILITY MEASURES, NUMBER ONE, TLIR ACCOUNTABLE FOR SPECIFIC GAINS IN STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT SCORES, NUMBER 2, HAVE TO STAY WITHIN BUDGET. IF THEY DON'T, THEY KEEP THAT DEFICIT UNTIL THE SCHOOL PAYS IT BACK. IF THEY RUN A SURPLUS, THEY KEEP THAT, TOO AND CAN SPEND IT IN THEIR SCHOOL.

Mary says ON BUDGET, THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. MANY BOARDS COMPLAIN NOT ENOUGH MONEY IN THE SYSTEM, SO WHAT ABOUT THEIR BUDGETS? WERE THEY INCREASED?

William says ABSOLUTELY NOT. WHAT HAPPENED INSTEAD, THEY FOUND WHEN THEY GAVE CONTROL TO THE PRINCIPALS, THEY DIDN'T NEED SUCH A BIG CENTRAL OFFICE. BECAUSE MOST OF THE INTERNATIONAL OFFICE STAFF ARE SITTING THERE THINKING UP WAYS TO THE WILL AND THEY DENT KNOW NEED TO BE TOLD WHAT THEY TO DO. THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO. SO THE CENTRAL STUFF HAS SHRUNK TREMENDOUS LYE. LET ME GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE. I STU STUDIED CATHOLIC SCHOOLS ALSO ASK GETTING READY TO VISIT THE CATHOLIC SCHOOLS IN NEW YORK CITY THAT HAVE 120,000 STUDENTS. AND I CALLED THAED TO TELL THE SUPERINTENDENT WHAT INFORM I WOULD NEED SO HAVE TIME TO GATHER IT. ONE THING I NEED IS I NEED TO KNOW HOW MANY CENTRAL OFFICE STAFF YOU HAVE TO SERVE 120,000 CHILDREN. IT MIGHT TAKE YOU TIME TO GET ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS AND FIGURE IT OUT. SHE SAID, DO YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW THAT. I SAID IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. JUST A MINUTE, I'LL GO COUNT THEM.

Mary says THAT TOLD YOU A LOT RIGHT THERE.

William says LITERALLY TRUE, PUT THE PHONE DOWN, SHE CAME BACK A FEW MINUTES LATER AND SHE SAID THERE'S 22 INCLUDING SECRETARIES. NOW THE NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE EXACTLY 10 TIMES AS MANY STUDENTS, 1.2 MILLION, SO YOU MIGHT THINK THEY WOULD HAVE 10 TIMES THE CENTRAL OFFICE. WHICH WOULD BE 220 STAFF, BUT INSTEAD, THEY HAVE 25,00025, 500. NOW THEY'LL SAY THEY HAVE FEWER THAN THAT BECAUSE MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE GO TO WORK ON A SCHOOL CAMPUS EACH DAY BUT THEY DON'T REPORT TO THE PRINCIPAL. THEY REPORT TO SOMEONE IN CENTRAL. IF YOU ASK THE PRINCIPAL, WOULD YOU AND WOULD YOU RATHER SUPER THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AND SPEND IT THE WAY YOU LIKE. THAT IS AN EASY ANSWER.

Mary says WITH YOUR THEORIES, HOW THEY ARE TAKEN BY SCHOOLS, BY PRINCIPALS, YOU KNOW ACCIDENT BY SUPERINTENDENTS, I THINK MANY PEOPLE, PHILOSOPHICALLY MIGHT REJECT PLACES OF LEARNING BEING MANAGED BY IBS PRINCIPLES, WHEN YOU SAY WORDS LIKE PREVENT PRENEAR WILL AND SCHOOLS ARE NOT BUSINESSES IN THE END.

William says I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO TAKE THAT, VERY BALANCED, VIEW OF THIS AND NOT TO GO WHOLE-HOG AND PREPARE THE CHILDREN ARE PRODUCT AND THE SCHOOLS ARE BUSINESSES, THEY ARE NOT. WITHIN OF THE MOST CENTRAL RULES THAT WE HAVE LEARNED ABOUT BUSINESS IS THAT WHEN A BUSINESS GETS TO BE ANYTHING ABOVE SMALL, IT HAS TO DECENTRALIZE THE KEY DECISIONS, TO EVERY LOCAL STORE, TO EVERY LOCAL OFFICE, BECAUSE ONLY THEY KNOW WHAT THE LOCAL CUSTOMERS WANT. AND THAT PRINCIPLE, I THINK GOES IN SCHOOLS AS WELL. LET ME GIVE YOU ONE OTHER KPACHLT A WONDERFUL SCHOOL IN EDMONTON, AN ELEMENTARY. AND THEY ARE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE, AGED AND WEREN'T SO MANY CHILDREN AND THE SCHOOL WAS IN DANGER OF BEING EMPTY AND STARTING TO RUN DEFICITS, SO THE PRINCIPAL THERE IS AN ENTREPRENEUR AND SHE OPENED UP A MANDARIN LANGUAGE PROGRAM AND OPENED UP MANDARIN DANCE CLASSES, ART CLASSES, AND VIE LYNN CLASSES AFTER SCHOOL, NOW HER SCHOOL IS 40 PERCENT ASIAN STUDENTS AND IT IS FULL AM SO, THERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A SCHOOL HAVING A PRINCIPAL WHO IS AN ENTREPRENEUR AND GOES AND FINDS THE SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR HER SKPOOL NOT THE SAME FOR ANY OTHER SCHOOL.

Mary says AND DO THESE PRINCIPALS, JUST HAPPEN TO EXIST OR TRAINED. TO THINK THIS WAY.

William says AN ASSISTANT PRINCIPLE IN EDMONTON, APPLY TO A LONG TRAINING AFTERNOON, WHILE YOU ARE BEING TRAINED, OTHER VETERAN PRINCIPLES ARE TRAINING YOU AND THEN GETTING TO KNOW YOU, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER LONG TRAINING PROGRAM. AND THE SUPERINTENDENT KNOWS YOU. AND HE'S ELIMINATED ALL OF THE SYSTEM SUPERINTENDENT POSITIONS. KP ALL 200 PRINCIPALS REPORT DIRECT TO HIM BECAUSE THE PRINCIPAL IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER MAKES ALL OF THE DECISIONS AND SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY OTHER BOSS. AND YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW TALKED EARLIER ABOUT A FOCUS ON STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT, FOCUS, FOCUS, ON STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT.

Mary says ONTARIO HAS IMPLEMENTED STANDARDIZED TESTING AND THERE HAS BEEN CRITICISM ABOUT IT AND SOME PARENTS WONDER IF THERE'S TOO MUCH FOCUS PLACED ON THE TESTING AND TEACHERS, TEACHINGING TO THE TEST. HOW DO YOU AGGRESS DRESS THAT?

William says I THINK THIS ARE ISSUES FOR SURE, STANDARDIZED TESTING YOU COULD SAY IS AN EVIL BUT I WOULD SAY IT IS A NECESSARY EVIL. HERE'S WHY FERMENT LET'S SUPPOSE THAT YOU HAVE A CLASSROOM FULL OF CHILDREN AND THE TEACHER IS VERY INEXPERIENCED. SO THAT LET'S SAY TWO THIRDS OF THE RILDEN ARE FALLING BEHIND. NOW IF ONLY THE TEACHER KNOWS THAT, THE WHOLE YEAR CAN GO BY BEFORE THOSE CHILDREN GET HELP AND THEY COULD USE A WHOLE YEAR OF SCHOOLING. SO THE PRINCIPAL HAS TO KNOW, TOO, AND HOW IS THE PRINCIPAL GOING TO KNOW OTHER THAN TO HAVE ACCESS TO STANDARDIZED TEST SCORES, A WEAK PRINCIPAL AND A WHOLE SCHOOL IS FAILING. AND HOW WILL THE SUPERINTENDENT KNOW UNLESS YOU HAVE STANDARDIZED TESTS? BUT TEST SUGGEST NOT REALLY THE ANSWER. IT TELLS YOU IF YOU ARE IN TROUBLE BUT NOT HOW TO FIX THE JOB. LET ME GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE. ANOTHER EDMONTON SCHOOL, REALLY WONDERFUL ONE, IS THE PARK SCHOOL. EVERY YEAR THE PRINCIPAL IN JANUARY KNOWS AN ANALYSIS OF THE STANDARDIZE SCORES FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR. AND SHE LOOKS IN DETAIL BECAUSE THEY ARE DETAILED SUBSCORES ON COMPOSITION, ON SENTENCE STRUCTURE, ON SPELLING AND VO CAB LAER AND SHE DOES THIS FOR EACH GRADE LEVEL FOR EVERY SUBJECT, AND THEN SHE SITS DOWN WITH HER TEACHERS AS A GROUP, DEPARTMENT BY DEPARTMENT AND SAYS, HERE'S WHERE OUR STUDENTS FOR WEEK. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DID ABOUT IT. NOW WHEN'S THE RESULT? AT THAT SCHOOL SCHOOL 98 PERCENT OF THE CHILDREN ARE EFFICIENT OR ABOVE IN READING AND 100 PERCENT ARE PROFICIENT OR ABOVE IN MATH BECAUSE THEY DO A LOT OF THEIR OWN DIAGNOSTICS, BASED ON THOSE SCORES, THEY DON'T TREAT THEM AS JUST AN EVIL. THEY TREAT THEM AS HELPFUL INFORMATION.

Mary says IT IS NOT AS IF THESE STUDENTS FALL INTO A SPECIAL CATEGORY, NOT ALL BRILLIANT SMART ABOVE AVERAGE STUDENTS.

William says NO NORMAL KIDS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

Mary says AND IN YOUR BOOK, YOU SAY THAT, THERE IS A PERCEPTION THAT, YOU KNOW, THE MORE MIDDLE CLASS THE SCHOOL IS, THE BETTER IT IS, RIGHT.

William says YOU ARE SLIGHTLY RIGHT, AND AS ANGUS MCBETH WILL SAY, OUR FOUNDING SUPERINTENDENT OF THIS NEW SYSTEM USED TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID, PEOPLE PREFER MIDDLE CLASS, BUT PARENTS SEND US THEIR BEST KIDS, THEY DON'T KEEP THE BEST ONES AT HOME, SO THESE ARE OUR CLIENTS, AND LET'S GIVE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, THE BEST EDUCATION THEY CAN GET AND LET'S NOT USE POVERTY AS AN EXCUSE FOR STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT. THAT'S BEEN THEIR WATCH WORD.

Mary says WELL POVERTY AND-OR SPECIAL NEEDS, RIGHT. IN THE CASE OF, I GUESS IT WAS JASPER SCHOOL, IN EDMONTON, THERE WERE KIDS OF ALL DIFFERENT LEARNING ABILITY THERE IS.

William says YEAH, RIGHT. JASPER PLACE IS REALLY A WONDERFUL EXAM. IT'S A LORJ COMPETENCE COMPREHENSIVE HIGH SCHOOL, MORE THAN 2,000 STUDENTS, 276 OF THEM ARE YOU PROFOUNDLY DISABLED SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN. NOW, IN EDMONTON, THE SYSTEM OF FUNDING IS CALLED WAITED STUDENT FORMULA, INVENTED PAY THEM, SO WHAT THEY DO IS IN PROVE SKPIBS A CHILD WHO HAS AUTISM OR WHO IS BLIND OR WHO COMES FROM A NONENGLISH SPEAKING BACKGROUND. AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT MONEY GOES TO THE SUPERINTENDENT WHO REALLOCATES IT, USUALLY TO THE MOST POLITICALLY POWERFUL SCHOOLS, WHICH IS THE WRONG THING TO DO. WELL IN EDMONTON, THEY DON'T THAT. THAT MONEY IS ATTACHED TO THE CHILD AND THEN EVERY FAMILY IS FREE TO CHOOSE ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL THEY WISH AND THE MONEY GOES WITH THE CHILD TO THE SCHOOL. SO, THE CHILD WITH SPECIAL NEEDS, THEY BRING 12,000 ADIGAL WITH THEM. NOW WHAT DOES THIS DO? THIS EMPOWERS FAMILIES.

Mary says BUT THEN ALSO, I MEAN, WANT IT BE KIND OF A DARWIN SCENARIO WHERE CERTAIN SCHOOLS JUST END UP DYING OUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BAD REPUTATION AND A STRONGER SCHOOLS WILL FLOURISH.

William says THAT'S ONE OF THE BEAUTIES OF CHOICE. YOU LET FAMILIES CHOOSE RATHER THAN ASSIGNING THEM TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS, IF A SCHOOL CANNOT PLEASE THE FAMILIES, IT WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS, PARENTS WILL VOTE WITH THEIR FEET.

Mary says THAT'S A GOOD THING?

William says THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. FORCED CHILDREN TO GO TO FAILING SCHOOLS, IF YOU DO THAT, YOU CAN'T TELL WHICH SCHOOLS ARE BAD. BUT IF PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE AND THE MONEY GOES WITH THE CHILD, THEN A SCHOOL LIKE JAZZ FEHR, BRAUS IS THE PINS PAL. HE SAYS, WELL, IF I HAD ONE SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD, IF BAY LAW AND I MUST MEET ALL OF THEIR NEEDS, NAND THE COST TO ME MAY BE AN EXTRA 100,000, I MAY GO BREAK. I WILL DESIGN A PROGRAM FOR SPECIAL NEEDS AND THEN MARKET IT, AND I'M GOING TO OFFER THE BEST PROGRAM IN EDMONTON SO THAT FAMILIES WANT TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN HERE AND THAT'S HOW IT IS BUILT UP TO 276 SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN WHO ARE GETTING A GREAT ED KAING. AND ANOTHER, ON THE OTHER HAND, 50 PERCENT OF THE STUDENTS ARE COLLEGE BOUND FERMENT FOR THEM HE'S ALSO HAD TO PUT TOGETHER A MARKET PROGRAMS LIKE HONORS, ADVANCED PLACEMENT INTERNATIONAL. NOW ALL OF THIS, JASPER PLACE TO ME IT LIKE A SWISS WATCH. IT HAS ALL OF THESE LITTLE INTRICATE PEACE FAMS NM AND JUST IMAGINE IF THE PRINCIPAL HAD TO GO TO CENTRAL OFFICE TO ASK FOR PERMISSION EVERY TIME.

Mary says FOR EVERY ONE OF THE DECISIONS, HE WOULD NEVER GET IT. WE ARE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME BUT ONE LAST WORD FOR PARENTS, WHAT CAN PARENTS DO AT THIS POINT? IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEAT THINGS HAPPEN.

William says THE THING FOR PARENTS MYOU HAVE TO TUNT AND THEY ONLY RESPOND TO POLITICAL PRESSURE, SO YOU HAVE TO GET YOURSELF INFOFLED. FIND OUT HOW MUCH MONEY IS SPENT AT YOUR SCHOOL BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THAT IT IF EVERY ED KAING DOLLAR, ONLY ABOUT 48 PERCENT ACTUALLY MAKES IT TO THE CLASSROOM.

Mary says IS THAT TRUE IN CANADA.

William says HOW MUCH MON Z BEING SPENT IN YOUR SCHOOL AND THEN SIT DOWN WITH A PINS PAL HOW MUCH DO YOU CONTROL, SIX PERCENT OR 90 PERCENT AND ASK HOW CAN WE PARENTS HELP YOU SO THAT YOU CONTROL MORE OF THE MONEY HERE AND YOU CAN DESIGN THE PROGRAM THAT IS RIGHT FOR OUR CHILDREN.

Mary says GREAT ADVICE, A FASCINATING TOPIC. THANKS FOR COMING IN, BILL. A PROFESSOR THE AT ANDERSON GRADUATE SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT AT UCLA AND HOOES ALSO THE AUTHOR OF MAKING SCHOOLS WORK. A REVOLUTIONARY NEW PLAN TO YET YOUR CHILDREN THE ED KAING THEY NEED. AND FASCINATING DISCUSSION, BUT THAT IS ALL OF THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TODAY PLEASE COME BACK TOMORROW AND JOIN ME FOR A VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING DISCUSSION ON DIVERSITY IN THE MEDIA. HOW MUCH THOUGHT HAVE YOU GIVEN TO THAT? IS OUR SOCIETY ACCURATELY REFLECTED? DO WE SEE OURSELVES OS THE TELEVISION SCREEN? IN SNURPS AND IN... NEWSPAPERS SKM IN MAGAZINES. DO WE HEAR OUR OWN VOICES ON THE RADIO? OUR PANEL TOMORROW WILL ANALYZE WHERE WE STAND AND WHY IT MATTERS. WE LOVE YOU TO CALL IN AS WELL. IT'S A CALL IN. SO CALL IN WITH YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. SO THIS'S TOMORROW, AT 1.

A slate reads "The advice given in the preceding program is of a general nature only. Viewers should consult their own medical professional for medical advice specific to their circumstances."

Watch: 3:00 am Handbook, William Ouchi