Transcript: Logic, Rice | May 23, 2003

(music plays)

A title appears inside the shape of a house: More to Life. Words spin against a red and orange background: Health, Family, Home, Money, Fitness, Life. Fast clips show images related to the previous concepts, such as a dollar bill, a wheat field, and strands of DNA.

In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: "More to life."

Then, Mary Ito sits in a studio with textured yellow walls and plants in the background.

Mary is in her late thirties, with short black hair and bangs. She's wearing a frilled red blouse and a pendant necklace.

She says GOOD AFTERNOON. I AM MARY ITO. WELCOME TO MORE TO LIFE. LATER IN THE SHOW, IT'S SIMPLE AND SEDUCTIVE. IT'S CALLED RICE. WE WILL LIKE AT THE WAY THAT CULTURES AROUND THE WAY ENJOY IT. FIRST AN ARGUMENT CAN ALSO BE CALLED SIMPLE AND SEDUCTIVE BUT WHAT MAKES IT SO. TODAY WE WILL LEARN HOW TO BE BETTER DEBATERS AND CRITICAL THINKERS, WHY DO SOME ARGUMENTS SUCCEED WHILE OTHERS FAIL. HERE TO TEACH US THE FUNDAMENTALS OF LOGICAL THINKING AND REFER REE OUR VIEWER QUIZ IS PROFESSOR ANDREW BAILEY. A PHILOSOPHY PROFESS AR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH.

Andrew is in his thirties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing rounded glasses, a black suit and a denim shirt.

Mary continues WE NEED YOU TO CALL IN TODAY AND PLAY OUR QUIZ GAME. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS, I'LL READ AN ARGUMENT TO YOU AND THEN YOU IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM WITH IT BY CHOOSING ONE OF THE MULTIPLE CHOICE ANSWERS, EVERYONE THAT GETS AN ANSWER RIGHT GETS A MORE TO LIFE MUG. KEEP IN MIND, NOT ASKING YOU TO AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THE STATEMENTS THAT ARE GIVEN. WE WANT TO KNOW IF THE WRITER HAS MADE A LOGICAL AND SOUND ARGUMENT. THE NUMBERS TO DIAL...

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."

Mary continues SORRY, NO E-MAILS TODAY. THANKS FOR COMING IN. HOW DID YOU GET INTERESTED IN THE TOPIC OF LOGICAL THINKING?

The caption changes to "Professor Andrew Bailey. University of Guelph."

Andrew says WELL, I GUESS I FIRST OF ALL BECAME INTERESTED IN PHILOSOPHY. AND ANY PHILOSOPHER, I MEAN, THE BUSINESS OF PHILOSOPHY IS THE BUSINESS OF ASSESSING HOW GOOD REASONS ARE FOR SOME PARTICULAR CLAIM OR OTHER. AND THAT TOOK ME IN THE DIRECTION OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT COUNTS AS GOOD REASON, LESS GOOD REASON, INVOLVES IN JUSTIFYING CONTROVERSIAL POSITIONS AT ALL AND TEACHING OF CRITICAL THINKING AND LOGIC COURSES AND THAT.

Mary says I HAVE TO ASK YOU. MAYBE THIS IS REALLY A QUESTION FOR, I DON'T KNOW, WHAT A BIOL GIST OR SOME OTHER KIND OF DOCTOR, BUT HAVE YOU NOTICED IN YOUR TALKS WITH PEOPLE, DO THEY TEND TO BE LOGICAL OR ILLOGICAL WHEN THEY GIVE ARGUMENTS, IS THERE A TENDENCY FOR EITHER?

Andrew says WELL, THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK PEOPLE ACTUALLY TEND TO BE MORE LOGICAL THAN THEY THINK THEY ARE?

Mary says REALLY?

Andrew says WHEN PEOPLE ARE BEING SELF CONSCIENCE, THEY NR THE BUSINESS OF JUSTIFYING THEIR OPINIONS INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING OPINIONS, PEOPLE TRY TO DO THEIR BEST TO FIND GOOD REASONS FOR THEIR POSITIONS. AND ARGUMENTS FALLOUT OF SPECTRUM AND VERY FEW OF THEM ARE PERFECT AND SOME OF THEM ARE TERRIBLY BAD. MOST ARE ABLE TO GIVE A REASONABLY GOOD ARGUMENT AND JUSTIFICATION FOR THE POSITIONS THEY HOLD.

Mary says IS IT SOMETHING THAT A LOGICAL ARGUMENT, IS IT SOMETHING NOW THAT'S TOTALLY SECOND NATURE TO YOU OR DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT AS WELL WHEN YOU PUT FORTH AN ARGUMENT?

Andrew says I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT. I MEAN, GIVING ARGUMENTS IS ACTUALLY CAN BE A FAIRLY COMPLICATED BUSINESS. YOU SORT OF BEGIN WITH A POSITION AND THEN YOU GIVE SOME REASONS TO THINK THAT IT IS TRUE BUT THEN, THERE ARE REASONS TO THINK THAT THOSE, THOSE ARGUMENTS ARE NOT STRONG AND AWAY IT GOES. SO, THERE IS A LOT INVOLVED IN GIVING ARGUMENTS.

Mary says I HAVE TO BE HONESTEST AND LOOK THROUGH THE TEXTBOOK THAT YOU USE IN YOUR COURSE AND IT MADE ME PARANOID. WHEN IS WRITING THE INTRUK, IS THIS LOGICAL. WAS MY CONCLUSION JUST LOGICAL? WE MIGHT HAVE A TEND ENS TOW BECOME THAT WAY, RIGHT? WHEN WE LOOK AT THE ACTUAL RULES INVOLVED.

Andrew says THE THING IS FOR A LOT OF ARGUMENTS, THERE'S THINGS THAT AREN'T QUITE RIGHT ABOUT THEM. SO A PART OF WHAT IS INVOLVED IN THINKING ABOUT LOGIC AND CRITICAL THINKING IS BECOMING MORE SELF AWARE OF THAT KIND OF THING, MORE CRITICAL OF THE ARGUMENTS YOU ARE PRESENTED WITH WHEN IT IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU MAKE VERY IMPORTANT DECISIONS OR MAJOR PURCHASING DECISIONS OR THINKING ABOUT THE WAR IN IRAQ OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE REFLECTIVE ABOUT THESE THINGS BUT JUST BECAUSE MOST ARGUMENTS AREN'T PERFECT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE TERRIBLE AS WELL. SO, IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOOD OR BAD ABOUT AN ARGUMENT BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO RUN OFF AND THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE ARGUMENTS HAVE FLAWS THAT NONE OF THEM ARE ANY GOOD AND PEOPLE ARE NOT BEING RATIONAL.

Mary says DO PEOPLE AVOID GETTING IN AN ARGUMENT WITH YOU?

Andrew says I AVOID GETTING INTO ARGUMENTS WITH THEM. I AM NOT A VERY ARGUE MENT TIF PERSON ACTUALLY. I DON'T, I MEAN, I LIKE THINKING ABOUT REASONING AND THINKING ABOUT JUSTIFICATION AND WHETHER, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING IS LIKELY TO BE RIGHT OR WRONG BUT NOT SURE I ENJOY AS MUCH, TRYING VERY HARD TO PERSUADE SOMEBODY ELSE THAT I AM RIGHT OR DEFENDING VIEWS THAT I HOLD. I AM IN THE BUSINESS OF DOING THAT BUT NOT SOMETHING I DO FOR FUN. EXACTLY. THAT'S RIGHT.

Mary says I GUESS YOUR WIFE APPRECIATES THAT, DOESN'T SHE?

Andrew says I HAVE LEARNED THAT WHEN SHE TELLS ME SOMETHING IS SO... SHE'S RIGHT.

Mary says THERE YOU GO. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. LISTEN, LET'S START OFF HERE, LET'S START OFF BETWEEN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OPINION AND AN ARGUMENT. HOW DO WE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE? SOMETIMES IT IS TRICKY.

Andrew says YEAH, IT CAN BE A LITTLE BIT TRICKY IN THE WILD AS THEY WERE, SO, IN THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT TELLING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN SOMEBODY IS JUST EXPRESSING AN OPINION AND GIFING AN ARGUMENT CAN BE COMPLICATED BUT THE FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. AN OPINION IS, IS AN ASSERTION OR A BELIEF THAT SOMEBODY HAS, WHICH THEY THINK IS TRUE, JUST SOMETHING THAT THEY HOLD SKPPLT IT BECOMES AN ARGUMENT ONCE SOMEBODY TRIES TO GIVE REASONS FOR THAT OPINION. SO REALLY THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN A MERE OPINION WHERE SOMEBODY JUST SAYS I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY SM PARTICULAR MOVIE IS A GREAT MOVIE OR THAI FOOD IS A WONDERFUL CUISINE AND BECOMES AN ARGUMENT WHEN SOMEBODY TRIES TO GIVE REASONS FOR THAT JUSTIFICATION.

Mary says YOU KNOW WHERE IT BECOMES CLOUDY IS WHEN A PERSON GIVES AN OPINION, DISQIZED AS A FACT. ONE THING WHEN YOU SAID I FEEL SUCH AND SUCH OR IF YOU, I BELIEVE. BUT WHEN THEY EXCLUDE THAT AND STATE IT AS IF IT IS A KNOWN FACT. THEN IT IS TRICKY TO KNOW IF IT IS AN OPINION OR NOT.

Andrew says PART OF THE SORT OF TRICKYNESS HERE. IS THAT, THERE ISN'T A CLEAR CUT DISTINCTION IN OPINION AND FACTS. ACTUALLY WHEN WE USE OPINION BY CONTRAST WITH ARGUMENT, WE BUNDLE IN FACTS WITH THAT AS WELL. SO, AN OPINION IS A CLAIM THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE.

Mary says GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF AN OPINION AND THEN AN ARGUMENT?

Andrew says WELL, YOU MIGHT SAY, I LIKE THAI FOOD. THAT WOULD BE AN OPINION, AND THAT, IS NOT AN OPINION BECAUSE IT IS SORT OF, I MEAN, IT IS SORT OF SUBJECTIVE VALUE CLAIM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MAYBE YOU LIKE THAI FOOD, MAYBE YOU DON'T LIKE THAI FOOD. WHAT MAKES AN OPINION IS THAT THERE ARE NOT ANY REASONS THAT ARE GIVEN, YOU JUST SAY IT. IT WOULD BE AN ARGUMENT IF YOU WERE TO SAY, WELL, THAI FOOD IS BETTER THAN BRITISH FOOD, FOR EXAMPLE. BECAUSE THERE IS A GREATER SPECTRUM OF FLAVORS IN THAI FOOD FOR EXAMPLE. OR BECAUSE THAI FOOD USES PEANUTS AND PEANUTS ARE SUCH A TASTY INGREDIENT THAT ANY CUISINE THAT INCLUDES THEM IS SUPERIOR TO ONE THAT DOESN'T. THAT'S SORT OF A SILLY TRIVIAL EXAMPLE BUT THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS THAT THE ARGUMENT IS TO JUSTIFY THE CLAIM.

Mary says THAI FOOD IS BETTER THAN BRITISH FOOD,

Andrew says RIGHT.

Mary says I WOULD STILL PUT THAT AS AN OPINION.

Andrew says YEAH, I GAVE THAT EXAMPLE BECAUSE I WANTED TO SORT OF, TO AVOID CONFUSING UNCONTROVERSIAL CLAIMS WITH CONTROVERSIAL CLAIMS. Z A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT A MERE OPINION IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE JUSTIFICATION. IT IS JUST SOMEBODY'S OPINION, IT IS JUST SOMETHING THEY THINK. IT IS NOT UP FOR GRABS, AS IT WERE. WHERE A FACT IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT THEY SAY, THIS IS TRUE, THIS IS OUR CONTROVERSIAL, THEN THEY'RE MAKING A STRONGER OPINION.

Mary says I GUESS I NEED TO CLARIFY. WHEN YOU SAY THAI FOOD IS BETTER THAN BRITISH FOOD, THAT IS AN ARGUMENT AND AN ARGUMENT DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE TRUE, RIGHT?

Andrew says RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT.

Mary says THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

Andrew says THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT AN ARGUMENT INVOLVES REASONS FOR AN OPINION AND AN OPINION OR A FACT IS JUST A STATEMENT. JUST A CLAIM.

Mary says OKAY. NOW THAT WE HAVE THOROUGHLY CONFUSED EVERYONE. WE CAN START THIS QUIZ.

Andrew says LET'S TRY IT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

Mary says WE HAVE A CALL OR THE LINE. ARE YOU THERE SHEILA FROM TORONTO. HI, DO YOU WANT TO TRY YOUR LUCK HERE. I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU A STATEMENT AND I WOULD LIKE YOU TO TELL ME WHETHER IT IS AN OPINION OR AN ARGUMENT HOW IS THAT?

The caller says OKAY. I'LL GIVE THAT A TRY.

Mary says OKAY. HERE'S THE STATEMENT OR WHATEVER.

A slate reads "The word 'basically' is a stall word, and any sentence starting out with it signals fuzzy thinking and a desire not to offend."

Mary says Is that an opinion or an argument, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caller says WELL, BASE OD WHAT WAS JUST SAID, SINCE A REASON IS GIVEN, THEN I AM AM BEING TOLD THAT WOULD BE AN ARGUMENT, I THINK.

Mary says YOU SEE, I WOULD AGREE WITH HER. I WOULD THINK THAT'S AN ARGUMENT, TOO.

Andrew says OKAY. PERHAPS THE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT IN THE WAY THOSE TWO KINDS OF REASONS, SO ONE KIND OF REASON IS A REASON THAT TRIES TO JUSTIFY A CLAIM. SO YOU MIGHT SAY, I BEING THAT THE WEST NILE VIR SUS A GREATER THREAT TO PEOPLE'S HEALTH THAN SARS, FOR EXAMPLE. TO TAKE A LESS OBVIOUSLY MATTER OF MERE OPINION. AND THEN YOU MIGHT SAY I THINK THAT THIS IS TRUE BECAUSE OF SOME FURTHER PIECE OF INFORMATION, RIGHT, I MIGHT THINK THAT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE WEST NILE VIR SUS CARRIED BY MOSQUITOS AND MUCH HARDER TO CONTROL MOSQUITOES.

Mary says SO DID YOU TURN THAT INTO AN ARGUMENT?

Andrew says WHEN I GAVE A REASON FOR MY CLAIM. IT BECAME AN ARGUMENT. THERE IS ANOTHER SORT OF TYPE OF REASON WHICH IS MORE LIKE AN EXPLANATION. SO YOU MIGHT SAY, HERE'S SOMETHING, HERE'S SOME SDPAKT HERE IS ANOTHER CONNECTED FACT WHICH EXPLAIN YES THE FIRST FACT IS TRUE. SO IN THIS CASE, YOU MIGHT SAY THE WORD BASICALLY IS A STALL WORD AND THE REASON WHY WE THINK THAT IS BECAUSE IT SIGNALS SUCH AND SUCH.

Mary says SO WHAT IS THE ANSWER. AN ARGUMENT OR AN OPINION.

Andrew says IN THIS CASE ACTUALLY AN OPINION.

Mary says I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED. I AGREE WITH OUR CALLER. I THINK THAT IS AN ARGUMENT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN ARGUMENT OVER THIS.
LET'S MOVE ON. YOU ARE THE EXPERT. HERE'S THE SECOND ONE. DO WE HAVE A CALLER FOR THIS ONE. REBECCA IS ON THE LINE. HI, REBECCA. HOW CLEAR THINKING ARE YOU TODAY?

The caller says I'LL TRY.

Mary says I AM NOT DOING MUCH BETTER. HERE WE GO.

A slate reads "If you are getting a refund, you should file your tax return early. That way, you'll have the money sooner to spend or invest."

The caller IT'S DEFINITELY AN ARGUMENT.

Andrew says EXCELLENT.

The caller says BECAUSE YOU ARE EXPLAINING WHY YOU SHOULD DO WHAT YOU ARE BEING TOLD TO DO.

Andrew says BINGO.

Mary says NOW THAT ONE I SEE.

Andrew says THAT IS A NICE CLEAR EXAMPLE.

Mary says THAT'S RIGHT. YOU GET A MUG, RI BECK A. GOOD FOR YOU.
USE IT IN GOOD HEALTH. WHAT ARE SOME DISTINGUISHING, ARE THERE OTHER DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS OF AN ARGUMENT?

Andrew says PERHAPS THE BEST WAY TO TRY TO WORK OUT WHETHER SOMETHING IS AN ARGUMENT OR NOT IS TO THINK ABOUT THE SORT OF THE CONTEXT OF THE, THE SENTENCES BEING UTTERED, SO IF SOMEONE IS TRYING TO PERSUADE YOU TO BELIEVE SOMETHING THEN, THAT'S AN INDICATION THAT MAYBE THERE IS AN ARGUMENT HAPPENING HERE. SO THE FIRST THING TO THINK ABOUT IS, AM I... IS SOMEONE TRYING TO MAKE ME BELIEVE SOMETHING I DON'T ALREADY BELIEVE. IN THE CASE OF THE EXAMPLES WE JUST LOOKED AT. YOU SHOULD FILE A TAX RETURN EARL. AND WHAT THIS PERSON IS TRYING TO DO, PERSUADE YOU THIS WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA. YOU SHOULD FILE THE TAX RETURN EARLY. WHERE AS IN THE CASE WHERE IT IS JUST AN OPINION, IT IS TALKING ABOUT HOW THE WORD BASICALLY IS A STALL WORD BUT IT IS NOT REALLY TRYING TO PERSUADE YOU THAT IT IS A STALL WORD. IT'S NOT TRYING TO GIVE YOU A REASON TO BELIEVE THIS THING DIDN'T ALREADY BELIEVE. JUST EXPLAINING SOMETHING. HERE'S SORT OF A FACT ABOUT ENGLISH USAGE, IF YOU LIKE.

MARY says WOULD THERE BE QEE WORDS THAT ARE VERY EEFFECTIVE IN AN ARGUMENT?

Andrew says THERE ARE KEYWORDS WHICH ARE VERY STRONG INDICATIONS THAT AN ARGUMENT IS GOING ON. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU SEE THE WORD THEREFORE OR HENCE OR THUS OR SO. THINGS LIKE THAT.

Mary says RIGHT.

Andrew says THOSE ARE WORDS WHICH SUGGEST THAT... BECAUSE OF SOMETHING, SOMETHING ELSE IS TRUE.

Mary says OKAY. NOW, SOME ARGUMENTS ARE SAID TO IMPERSON EIGHT GOOD ARGUMENTS AND OTHERS TO DIVERT. SO GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES.

A slate reads "Assuming an opinion. 1) A critic attributes a particular opinion to an opponent. 2) The opponent's position is not the one attributed to them. 3) The critic criticizes that different position as though it were the position held by the opponent."

Andrew says OKAY. WELL, AN EXAMPLE OF AN ARGUMENT THAT IS A DIVERSIONARY KIND OF ARGUMENT, SO WHERE WE COMMIT A FALLACY, WHERE WE MAKE A MISTAKE BY COMMITTING DIVERSION. IS CALLED A ASSUMING AN OPINION OR CALL KA CALLED STRONG PERSON. THE FEATURE OF THIS KIND OF MISTAKE IN IS THAT WHAT YOU DO IS YOU TAKE THE OPPONENT'S POSITION AND YOU DISTORT IT. SO YOU, YOU SORT OF PRETENT THAT THE OPPONENT HAS A POSITION THEY THAT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE BUT A POSITION EASIER TO CRITICIZE. SOMETIME CALLED STRAW PERSON FROM A MIDIEVAL PRACTICE.

Mary says CAN YOU THINK OF AN EXAMPLE? A SIMPLE EXAMPLE.

Andrew says SURE. JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO THERE WERE PROTESTERS IN THE ONTARIO LEGISLATURE, I BELIEVE, ABOUT ACTUALLY IT WOULD BE THE CITY OF TO AREN'T OWE ABOUT PESTICIDE LEGISLATION AND WANTED TO BAN PESTICIDES AND THE PRO PESTICIDE LOBBY, WERE WEARING T-SHIRTS AND HATS THAT SAID GARDENING SHOULDN'T BE A CRIME AND THAT WOULD BE AN EXAM OF THIS KIND OF MISTAKE BECAUSE IT'S ASSUMING THAT THE LEGISLATION TREATING THE LEBLING LEGISLATION IF IT WOULD MAKE GARDENING A CRIME AND SINCE GARDENING SHOULDN'T BE A CRIME, IT SORT OF, IT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD ARGUMENT. IT SEEMS LIKE A REASON TO OPPOSE THE LEDGE SLAING. BUT THIS IS A MISTAKE, A DIVERSION. BECAUSE THE LEGISLATION WOULDN'T MAKE GARDENING.

Mary says YOU ARE ASSUMING AN OPINION, ATTRIBUTING AN OPINION TO THE OTHER PERSON.

Andrew says ONE THAT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HOLD.

Mary says WHAT'S ANOTHER ONE?

Andrew says ANOTHER KIND OF FALL AES THAT CAN BE COMMITTED. A KIND OF IMPERSONATION IF YOU LIKE OF A GOOD ARGUMENT. THERE ARE TYPES OF ARGUMENTS THAT ARE SOMETIMES GOOD AND THEN THAT ARE SOMETIMES BAD AND A LOT OF ARGUMENTS TRADE ON ANALOGYS, THEY SAY THAT ONE THING IS LIKE ANOTHER THING AND BECAUSE SOMETHING IS TRUE OF THE FIRST THING, THEN THAT, THAT SHOULD BE TRUE OF THE SECOND THING AS WELL.

Mary says OH, SO THIS FOLLOW EQUALS THAT.

A slate reads "False comparison. There is a false or problematic assumption about the similarity of the two cases or situations compared in an argument."

Andrew says THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. SO TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE WHERE THIS KIND OF REASONING GOES WRONG, A CASE OF FALSE ANALOGY, YOU MIGHT SAY, FIREARMS ARE LIKE A TOOLS, FIREARMS ARE LIKE SAY FARM IMPLEMENTS, LIKE RAKES AND TRACTORS IN THE SENSE THAT THEY'RE BOTH A KIND OF TOOL. IT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS TO LICENSE SCREWDRIVERS, TO LICENSE RAKES AND HOES SO THEREFORE IT'S RIDICULOUS TO LICENSE FIREARMS TO IMPOSE GUN CONTROL.

Mary says I THINK YOU NOTICE THIS KIND OF FALSE COMPARISON HAPPENING ALL OF THE TIME IN THE NEWSPAPERS THE MEDIA, QUITE A LOT.

Andrew says YES.

Mary says ANOTHER CATEGORY THAT'S QUITE COMMON, WHATATE LAST ONE?

A slate reads "Questionable cause. 1) A causal claim is made to support the conclusion of an argument. 2) The person argues to the causal claim as the conclusion but fails to provide adequate support for it."

Andrew says THIS IS ALSO A KIND OF IMPERSONATION OF A GOOD ARGUMENT, THERE IS A WHEN PEOPLE ARE MAKING ARGUMENTS WHEN THEY GIVE REASONS FOR THEIR VIEWS, AUFERN MAKE CAUSAL CLAIMS, BECAUSE OF SOME KIND OF KAULZAL CONNECTION, SOMETHING OR OTHER IS TRUE. BUT, ARGUING ABOUT CAUSEAL CLAIMS CAN AUFERN BE VERY KOFERM KATED. IT CAN LEAD YOU INTO BAD ARGUMENTS INTO fallacies.

Mary says SO WHAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF THIS, QUESTIONABLE CAUSE.

Andrew says LOTS OF EXAMPLES. HERE'S A DECIDEDLY WACKY ONE, IF YOU WANT, GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE 19TH CENTURY, A LOT OF SAILORS IN THOSE DAYS WOULD HAVE HAD TATTOO AND A LOT OF SAILORS PERHAPS WOULD HAVE HAD SKURVY. THEY MIGHT SAY, HAVING A TATTOO GIVES YOU SCURVY, YOU GET THIS PARTICULAR MEDICAL CONDITION. BECAUSE, THE TWO ALWAYS HAPPENED TOGETHER. MOST OF THE PEOPLE WEAR TATTOOS HAVE THAT DISEASE.

Mary says YOU KNOW HOW AUFERN THAT ERROR IS MADE, YOU ARE MISTAKING THE CORRELATION SITUATION WITH THE CAUSE AND EFFECT SITUATION.

Andrew says THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS THAT CAN GO WRONG. IT'S DIFFICULT TO MAKE SURE THESE KINDS OF ARGUMENTS ARE SUFFICIENTLY STRONG. A LOT OF SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTAL PROCEDURES AND TRYING TO MAKE THESE ARGUMENTS SUFFICIENTLY STRONG.

Mary says MARY WE HAVE SOME MORE HERE ON THE QUIZ, WE'RE GOING TO TEST PEOPLE ON THESE THREE AREAS AND AGAIN, THEY WERE ASSUMING AN OPINION, FAULTY ANALOGY OR FALSE COMPARISON AND THE LAFERT ONE, IS QUESTIONABLE CAUSE. OKAY. I THINK WE HAVE GOT SOMEONE ON THE LINE HERE. ANDREW ON THE LINE FROM TORONTO.

The caller says HI THERE.

Mary says ARE YOU ALL SET TO PLAY.

The caller says I'LL DO MY BEST.

Mary says I AM GOING TO READ YOU A LITTLE PIECE HERE AND THEN WE HAVE A MULTIPLE CHOICE AND THEN YOU CHOOSE WHICH CATEGORY YOU THINK THIS ARGUMENT FALLS UNDER. ALL RIGHT. WHATATE PROBLEM WITH IT IS WHAT WE'RE ASKING YOU. HERE GOES. THIS IS A CONVERSATION BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE, ANDREW. THE WIFE SAYS, I REALLY WISH YOU WOULD START TAKING THE GARBAGE OUT MORE OFTEN BECAUSE IT REALLY SMELLS UP THE HOUSE.
THE HUSBAND SAYS, I AM NOT AS LAZY AS YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, I DID INSTALL SOME AIR FRESHENERS. AND THE CHOICES YOU HAVE ARE...

A slate reads "Choose the correct fallacy: a) Assuming an opinion, b) False comparison, c) Questionable cause, d) None of the above."

The caller I go with b, false comparison.

Mary says WHAT DO YOU SAY Andrew?

Andrew says WELL, ONE WORD TO THINK ABOUT IS WEATHER THE WIFE ACTUALLY ACCUSE THE HUSBAND OF BEING LAZY. SO THE HUSBAND'S RESPONSE IS, WELL, I'M ACTUALLY NOT LAZY. HERE'S SOME EVIDENCE TO SAY I'M NOT LAZY.

Mary says RIGHT.
I WISH YOU WOULD START TAKING THE GARBAGE OUT MORE AUFERN. SHE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT BEING LAZY.
SO HE ASSUMED SOMETHING.

Andrew says HE DID.

Mary says SO WHAT IS IT?

Andrew says I WOULD SAY IT'S ASSUMING AN OPINION.

Mary says IT'S A STRAW PERSON, ASSUMING AN OPINION. I CAN SEE THE WHY ANDREW THOUGHT IT WAS FALSE COMPARISON, YOU ARE TAKING TWO DIFFERENT EXAMPLES, I GUESS, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY THAT.

Andrew says YEAH, IT WOULD BE FALSE COMPARISON IF THERE WAS AN ANALOGY GOING ON. IF THE WIFE HAD HADED YOUR BEHAVE, YOU ARE NOT TAKING OUT THE GARBAGE IS LIKE, SOMETHING ELSE. IT IS LIKE BEING A PIG AND HE SAYS, IT'S NOT LIKE BEING A PIG BECAUSE THERE IS THIS IMPORTANT... THERE WOULD BE AN ANALOGY INVOLVED IN THE ARGUMENT OF SOME KIND OF COMPARISON.

Mary says LET'S TRY ANOTHER ONE. WE ARE PLAYING A FUN LITTLE QUIZ ON LOGICAL THINKING, SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TRY YOUR LUCK ACCIDENT GIVE US A CALL. THE NUMBER IS...

The phone numbers reappear briefly.

Mary says WE HAVE DOMINGO ON THE LINE FROM THORN HILL.

The caller says I'LL TRY MY MY LUCK.

Mary says ALL SET?

The caller says YES.

Mary says I'LL READ YOU A PIECE AND YOU TRY TO GUESS WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT. THE MULTIPLE CHOICE.
HERE'S THE STATEMENT. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF RIF F-RAFF MOVED INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD LATELY SO THE CRIME RATE IS REALLY GOING ON UP. DOW THINK THAT IS...

A slate reads "Choose the correct fallacy: a) Assuming an opinion, b) False comparison, c) Questionable cause, d) None of the above."

The caller says THAT WOULD BE C, QUESTIONABLE CAUSE.

Mary says WHAT DO YOU SAY?

Andrew says I WOULD SAY, INDEED.

Mary says YEA! YOU GET A MUG. HE'S REALLY THRILLED.
TELL US WHY.

Andrew says BECAUSE WILL SUGGESTION IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE RIFF-RAFF MOVING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD LIKELY TO CAUSE CRIME SO THE PRESENCE IS LIKELY TO LEAD TO AN INCREASE IN THE CRIME RATE. AND OF COURSE THAT'S QUESTIONABLE BECAUSE THERE'S ALL KINDS OF REASONS TO THINK THAT IS NOT A GOOD CONNECTION.

Mary says YOU KNOW WHAT I HAVE A BONE TO PICK WITH YOU. I CAME UP WITH THAT ONE MYSELF AS AN EXAMPLE. BUT YOU CHANGE TODAY. MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT WAS TLRX'S BEEN A LOT OF RIFF-RAFFTHAT MOVED INTO THE LATELY SO THE CRIME RATE HAS REALLY GONE UP. I PUT IT IN A PAST TENSE AND YOU PUT IT, IS GOING TO GO UP. WHY DID DOW THAT? WHAT WAS WROJ WITH MY ORIGINAL?

Andrew says ONE WOULDN'T SAY THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT, EXACT LEECHLT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TWOT VERING SYSTEM THAT IN ONE CASE IT IS CLEARER THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT NOT ALREADY BELIEVE IS BEING ARGUED FOR. SO IF I'M JUST SAYING TO YOU, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING COFFEE. AND I SAY, THE CRIME RATE HAS GONE UP AND LOOK AT ALL OF THE RFIRX F-RAFF. I WOULD BE TELLING YOU STUFF, I WOULD BE GIVING YOU A COUPLE OF OPINIONS, WHERE AS IF I SAY, YOU BETTER WATCH OUT, START LOCKING YOUR CAR BECAUSE THE CRIME RATE IS GOING TO GO UP AND THE REASON I THINK THAT IT IS GOING TO GO UP, LOOK AT ALL OF THE RIFF-RAFF. THAT WOULD BE AN ARGUMENT. TRYING TO MAKE YOU DO SOMETHING, PERSUADE YOU TO DO BELIEVE SOMETHING SMOOCHLT

Mary says OH...

Andrew says DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN.

Mary says YES. NOT THAT IT CAN'T BE AN ARGUE WANT. COULD IT STILL ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY BE CONSIDERED AN ARGUMENT OR NOT.

Andrew says IT WOULD DEPEND A BIT, I THINK.
SO IT WE BOTH AGREED CRIME RATE HAD GONE UP AND RIFF-RAFF. REALLY WOULDN'T BE AN ARGUMENT. BUT IF, YOU KNOW IN THE CONTEXT ID, THE CRIME RATE HAS GONE UP. I DON'T THINK THE CRIME RATE HAS GONE UP.

Mary says YOUR WAY IS A CONJECTURE. YEAH, IT IS REALLY STATING SOMETHING, THE POSSIBILITY OF THIS HAPPENING, YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I AM CONVINCED. YOU SEE, YOU JUST CONVINCED ME. MARJ REE IS ON THE LINE. 92 HI.

The caller says GOOD AFTERNOON.

Mary says ARE YOU ALL SET?

The caller says YES, I'LL GIVE IT A TRY.

Mary says I HAVE A NICE ONE FOR YOU. THIS A GOOD ONE. THIS A TFERINGZ BETWEEN A BOSS AND AN EMPLOYEE. ALL RIGHT. THE BOSS SAYS, I AM SORRY, JACK, BUT I HAVE TO FIRE YOU BECAUSE I FEEL THAT YOUR REPORTS HAVE BEEN BADLY RESEARCHED AND POORLY WRITTEN. AND THE JACK SAYS, BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR, I AM JUST AS HARD WORKING AS THE NEXT GUY IN THIS DEPARTMENT. IS THAT ARGUMENT...

A slate reads "Choose the correct fallacy: a) Assuming an opinion, b) False comparison, c) Questionable cause, d) None of the above."

The caller says I WOULD SAY QUESTIONABLE CAUSE.

Andrew says WHY DO YOU THINK THAT?

The caller says THE PERSON MAKE THE REPORT IS ASSUMING THAT THE BOSS REALLY HAS NOT DONE A GOOD JOB. EVEN THOUGH HE'S DONE A LOT OF WORK. HE MAY NOT HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB.

Andrew says YEAH. HERE'S A HINT, I'LL PUT IT THAT WAY. DID THE BOSS ACCUSE HIM OF NOT BEING HARD WORKING. DID HE SAY HE WAS LAZY, AGAIN?

The caller says HE DIDN'T SAY HE WAS HARD WORK. HE SAID HE WAS INEFFECT SKPIF.

Andrew says JACK SAYS BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR, I AM VERY HARD WORKING, LOOK AT HOW HARD I'M WORKING. DID THAT RESPOND TO WHAT THE BOSS WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT?

The caller says NO, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A HARD WORK ERK DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE EFFECTIVE.

Andrew says SO IN THAT CASE, WAS JACK ASSUMING THAT THE BOSS HAD MADE A COMPLAINT THAT THE BOSS HADN'T ACTUALLY MADE.

The caller says I GUESS HE WAS ASSUMING. YEAH.

Mary says SO IT WOULD BE ASSUMING AN OPINION.

Andrew says AND UX YOU KNOW, MAYBE JACK IS INEFFECTIVE. CLAIMING TO BE HARD WORKING BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE CAN'T DEFEND HIMSELF SO HOOESES SHORT OF CHANGING OF SUBJECT.

Mary says OKAY.

Andrew says BUT LOOK I'M HERE EVERY NIGHT UNTIL SIX BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE BOSS IS COMPLAINING ABOUT.

Mary says IT COULD BE THAT BOTH ARE TRUE. YES, YOU ARE AID A HARD WORKING BUT YOU ARE INEFFECTIVE.

Andrew says THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S ASSUMING AN OPINION. THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT.

Mary says YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO ASK YOU. I THOUGHT ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING SEGMENTS IN THE TEXTBOOK THAT YOU USE WAS THE ONE ON ADVERTISING. THAT WAS FASCINATING. I MEAN, WHEN YOU REALLY DECONSTRUCT THE ADS THAT WE LOOK AT. THEY TELL US A LOT. OF HOW THEY PERSUADE US. WHAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE MOST, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOLS, THE MOST EFFECTIVE TOOLS THAT ADVERTISERS USE TO GET US TO BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE SAYING?

Andrew says WELL, THE THIRNING I THINK TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT ADVERTISE SUGGEST THAT MOST PRODUCTS IN A PARTICULAR SORT OF NICHE. MOST LAUNDRY DETERGENTS OR TOOTHPASTE ARE VERY SIMILAR. SO, ADVERTISING CAN'T MAKE STRONG CLAIMS ABOUT THEIR PRODUCT BEING VASTLY BETTER THAFERN SOME PRODUCT BECAUSE USUALLY THEY'RE NOT. WHAT THEY TRY TO DO IS MAKE IT SEEM AS IF THEY'RE CLAIM OF THE PRODUCT IS MUCH BETTER WHEN THEY ARE NOT ACTUALLY CLAIMING THAT AT ALL. AND THEY'LL DO THAT BY USING THINGS LIKE, VAGUE GENERALIZATIONS, THEY'LL SAY THINGS LIKE WASHES WHITER, BRUSHS CLEANER. BUT THAT... THAT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING IT AT ALL.

Mary says COMPARED TO WHAT?

Andrew says SO THEY'LL MAKE CLAIMS THAT SOUND AS IF THEY'RE CONCRETE AND COMPARATIVE WHEN REALLY THEY'RE NOT.

Mary says SO THE THING NOT TO GET LEGALLY CAUGHT, IS TO MAKE IT SO VAGUE OR GENERAL THAT IT CAN'T BE PRUFERN? LIKE YOU CAN'T SAY, THAT'S NOT TRUE BECAUSE IN A CERTAIN SITUATION, IT WOULD BE TRUE. IT IS WHITER THAN SOMETHING ELSE?

Andrew says THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK WHAT THEY ALSO DO IS SAY THINGS WHICH ARE LITERALLY TRUE BUT THEY'RE NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY'RE SAY. SO FOR EXAMPLE. AN A NOTORIOUS EXAMPLE FROM THE LATE 60'S A VOLVO CAR AD CLAIMED 90 NRS ARE PERCENT OF THE CARS THAT HAD BEEN SOLD IN THE LAST 10 YEARS WERE STILL ON THE ROAD AND THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID. BUT MOST CONSUMERS WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT 90 PERCENT OF VOLVO LAST FOR 10 YEARS BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT IT SAYS. 90 PERCENT OF THE CARS SOLD IN THE LAST 10 YEARS ARE STILL ON THE ROAD. BUT AS IT TURNS OUT, SOME 50 PERCENT OF ALL OF THOSE CARS WERE SOLD IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, A LOT OF THEM WERE SOLD LAST YEAR. SO A PERFECTLY TRUE CLAIM.

Mary says I FELL FOR THAT. YEAH, VERY DECEPTIVE.

Andrew says PEOPLE GET SUCKED IN. SO THE KEY THING ABOUT ADVERTISING, CAREFUL ABOUT THAT CLAIM.

Mary says WE HAVE BRIDGE OAT THE LINE. HI.

The caller says HI.

Mary says HOW ARE THE TUL IPS?

The caller says THEY'RE PRETTY GOOD.

Mary says YEAH. GREAT. I HAVE A LITTLE SEGMENT I AM GOING TO READ TO YOU, ALL RIGHT.
SO PLAY PAY CLOSE ATTENTION. HEREATE STORYY, THERE WAS A BRITISH JUDGE AND CHARGED A 16 YEAR OLD YOUTH AFTER KICKING A BOY UNCONSCIOUS. AND THE JUDGE ARGUED IT IS BECAUSE THE YOUTH HAD WATCHED THE WICKED FILM STANDING A CLOCKWORK ORANGE NLT THE JUDGE SAID THAT THE YOUNG MAN HAD LAUNCHED HIS ATTACK WHILE WEARING CLOTHES THAT WERE SIMILAR TO THE VIOLENCE CRAZED CHARACTERS IN THE FILM. NOW WHAT LTED BE THE ARGUMENT THERE. WHAT WOULD THAT FALL UNDER. ASSUMING AN OPINION HERE. OR BE FALSE COMPARISON. C, QUESTIONABLE CAUSE OR D NONE OF THE ABOVE.

A slate reads "Choose the correct fallacy: a) Assuming an opinion, b) False comparison, c) Questionable cause, d) None of the above."

Mary says WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caller says GEE, THAT'S TOUGH. I WOULD SAY...

Mary says THE 16 YEAR OLD YOUTH WAS, HE KICK AID BOY UNCONSCIOUS AND THE JUDGE SAID, WELL, THAT'S BECAUSE HE WATCHED THIS FILM KP WEARING THE SAME CLOTHES AS THE VILLAIN IN THE FILM.

The caller says OKAY.

Mary says COULD YOU REPEAT THE OPTIONS AGAIN. A ASSUMING AN OPINION. A FALSE COMPARISON. C, QUESTIONABLE CAUSE. OR D NONE OF THE ABOVE.

The caller says QUESTIONABLE CAUSE.

Andrew says I THANING'S JUST RIGHT.

Mary says WAY TO GO, BRIDGETTE.
WHY IS IT QUESTIONABLE CAUSE.

Andrew says I THINK HE WAS SUGGESTING AS MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE, VIOLENCE DIRECTLY CAUSES VIOLENCE BEHAVIOR, SO IF YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT THE KID WATCHED THE CLOCKWORK ORANGE AND THEN WENT OFF THE CAUSE OF WATCHING THE MOVIE TO ENGAGE IN THE SAME KINDS OF ACTS.

Mary says WELL, I HAVE NOTICED QUITE AUFERN WHEN IT COMES TO VIOLENCE IN THE MEDIA, AND CRIMINAL AXES, THAT IS AUFERN THE CASE, ISN'T IT. THAT SOMETIMES, THAT PEOPLE MAKE THAT CONNECTION.

Andrew says THE ARGUMENT.

Mary says SO, YOU KNOW WHAT? GOING BACK TO ADVERTISING AGAIN. JUST BECAUSE, IT FASCINATES ME. IN THE BOOK, THERE, IT POINTS OUT SOMETHING CALLED WEASEL WORDS USED IN ADVERTISING. TELL US WHAT THOSE TOR WASH OUT FOR THEM.

Andrew says WEEZ EING WORDS ARE QUALIFYERS THAT ARE LITTLE WORDS USED TO LESSON THE CLAIM THAT'S BEING MADE IN THE AD AND PEOPLE TYPICALLY DON'T NOTICE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY'LL SAY THINGS LIKE, IT WORKS LIKE A DYNAMO. WHERE THE WORD LIKE HERE IS A WEASEL WORD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SORT OF THINK THAT THE CLAIM IS BEING MADE THAT IT IS A DYNAMO. IT HAS THAT KIND OF ENERGY. THAT KIND OF ACTION WHERE AS IN FACT, THE WORD LIKE IT IS JUST SIMILAR TO THAT. IT IS AS IF IT WERE A DYNAMO.

Mary says I LOVE THE ONE, WORKS FOR UP TO 12 HOURS.

Andrew says EXACTLY. THAT'S RIGHT. OR LOSE UP TO 12 POUNDS.

Mary says SOMETHING LIKE THAT. EXACTLY.
EXPLAIN THAT ONE.

Andrew says IT MAY, IN FACT BE TRUE, YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, IT WILL WORK FOR UP TO 12 HOURS, FOR EXAMPLE BUT FOR MANY PEOPLE PERHAP ITS DOESN'T, PERHAPS TWEF HOURS IS THE EXTREME, THE LONGEST THAT IT WORKS BUT FOR MANY PEOPLE, IT IS JUST SIX HOUR DRIVE.

Mary says THE SAME IDEA, TOO, ON THE SALES BINS, YOU GO INTO THE STORE AND IT WILL SAY 10 PERCENT. UP TO 10 PERCENT. AS LOW AS 2.99, EVERY ITEM IN THIS BIN. THERE WILL BE ONE BUT EVERYTHING ELSE WAS 10.99.

Andrew says THAT'S EXACTLY IT. WE ARE OWL OUT OF TIME. THAT WAS A LOST FUN.

Andrew says OKAY.

Mary says THANK YOU FOR COMING IN. BEST OF LUCK WITH YOUR SCHOOL.

Andrew says THANKS VERY MUCH.

Mary says ANDREW BAILEY, A PHILOSOPHY PROFESS AR THE AT UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH. YOU CAN VISIT THE WEB SITE...

A slate reads "University of Guelph, www.uoguelph.ca."

Mary says AND CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL WHO WON TODAY AND THOSE OF YOU THAT ANSWERED CORRECTLY, YOU WILL RECEIVE A MORE TO LIFE MUG. AND WELL, MANY OF UTS DON'T SEE THE LOGIC IN SOME ADVICE BOOKS, DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF, THEY TELL US AND SEEK COMFORT IN A HELPING OF CHICKEN SOUP FOR THE SOUL. NOW THERE'S AN ANTISELF-HELP BOOK CALLED DAILY AFLICKS FROM AMERICAN WRITER ANDREW BOYD. YOU WILL FIND NUGGETS ON LIVING A WORTHLESS LIFE, LOVING THE WRONG PERSON AND SEEING THINGS THROUGH TO TOTAL CATASTROPHE. IMPRINT THERE WAS WHEN ANDREW BOYD BROUGHT HIS MESSAGE TO TORONTO. IT CAME COMPLETE WITH A MOCK CHURCH SERVICE FOR THOSE SEEKING SOME ALTERNATIVE HEALING.

A clip plays on screen. Religious chants play as a montage shows people attending an event.

A man addressed a group of about two dozen people inside a conference room.

He says THEY PROMISE THAT YOU CAN GET WHAT YOU WANT JUST BY VISUALIZING, AFFLICTIONS, HOWEVER, MAKE NO SUCH PROMISES. THEY REMIND YOU WHEN YOU FEEL DES TRAT AND ALONE, YOU ARE.

The audience laughs.

The speaker sits in a restaurant and gives an interview.
A caption reads "Andrew Boyd. 'Daily afflictions.'"

Andrew, in his thirties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair, says IT IS LIKE SELF-HELP WITH A TWIST. INSTEAD OF A NICEY NICEY NEW AGE AFIR MATIONS, IT'S, IT'S A BOOK THAT EMBRACES IN A HUMOROUS WAY, PARADOX, IRONY FERMENT THE COMPLEXITYS AND DIFFICULTIES OF LIFE. AND OFFERS UP, SORT OF ADVICE THAT CUTS BOTH WAYS, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE ON CAREER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING BUT I'M DOING IT AS HARD AS I POSSIBLY CAN.

At the event Andrew says AFFLICTIONS MOBILIZE THE SUPPRESSED POWER OF YOUR DARK SIDE. WHILE YOUR INNER CHILD MIGHT HELP YOU TO CRY AGAIN. SO JUST IMAGINE WHAT YOUR INNER CRITIC, YOUR INNER PSYCHOPATH AND YOUR INNER CORPS CAN DO TO YOU.

A bald man in his late thirties says I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR ANDREW'S BOOK FOR A LONG TIME NOW BECAUSE I FIND IT IS SUCH AN ANT DOTE TO THE SELF-HELP BOOKS THAT ARE OUT THERE, THERE'S JUST SO... IT IS SUCH A PRO LIVE RAING OF SELF-HELP BOOKS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ACTUALLY THIS TO HELP YOU OR NOT.

A woman in her early forties with big brown hair says IT MADE ME SKPLAUF IT MADE ME THINK. AND IT MADE ME LOOK AT MY LIFE IN A NEW WAY. IT'S JUST FUNNY. IT'S BRILLIANT. IT'S WONDERFUL.

Andrew says I WOULD SAY, THE IRNS PRAING FROM THE BOOK. VISITING THE HUMOR SECTION OF BARNS AND NOBLE AND REALIZING MOST OF IT WAS CRAP. CAN I SAY THAT ON TV? CRAP. TO GROW. WHAT I LOVE ABOUT SELF-HELP, IT IS LIKE A TOOL FOR LIVING IT'S ACCESSIBLE. AND YOU CAN LAY OUR YOUR HANLD OS IT AND USE IT. IT'S MODULAR, YOU CAN FIND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. SO I HAVE ALL OF THOSE VERY GOOD QUALITYS BUT IT'S, THE CONTENT, YOU KNOW, IT IS 99 PERCENT STUFF THAT I THINK IS, INTEKT SLOPY AND INVOLVES A LOT OF MAGICAL THINKING AND, YOU KNOW, WAS SIMPLIFYING LIFE IN WAYS THAT, WERE DISRESPECTFUL TO LIFE.

Now classical music plays as a black and white slate reads "Living as a work of art."

Andrew reads
MANY OF US IMAGINE LIVING AS A WORK OF ART, BUT FEW CONSIDER THE DIFFICULTIES. First you must dig down deep to where your inner artist lies trapped in a spirit crushing day job. Having unearthed your unruly visions, you must then be willing to suffer for them. You must consent to be a rough draft much of the time. You must be prepared to destroy yourself in order to create yourself anew. Finally, having offered yourself up as the willing clay of your own imagination, you must note, with some chagrin, that your inner artist is a drunken, moody son of a bitch.

At his interview, Andrew says PEOPLE LOVE THE SERVICE. THEY USUALLY GET THESE BORING BOOK READINGS, OR INTERESTING BOOK READINGS BUT THEY'RE PREDICTABLE.

At the service, as he addresses a man and a woman, he says PUT YOUR OTHER HAND ON ANOTHER PART OF PARTICULARLY FOR WHAT YOU MIGHT IMAGINE AS A PARTICULARLY CHERISHABLE PART OF THE OTHER'S ANATOMY. THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE OTHER.

The man says I'M OKAY.

The audience laughs.

Andrew says SO WHEREVER SHE PUTS HER HAND IS OKAY. YOU HAVE A GREEN LIGHT, WIDE OPEN. ANY SURFACE AREA IS FAIR GAME. JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR. COME ON.

During his interview, Andrew says EVERYONE'S WATCHING, PEOPLE ARE MAYBE TAKEN ABACK. THAT IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO TRADITIONAL RELIGIONS OR THE RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLE IN GENERAL. BUT, I DON'T FEEL THAT WAY BECAUSE IT IS JUST A DIFFERENT KIND OF CHURCH. I THINK THAT AUFERN THERE'S REAL CHURCH LIKE COMMUNION THAT HAPPENS AS WELL AS THE HUMOR AND THE FUN AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

As the man and woman hold each other at arm's length, Andrew reads WE'RE ALL SEEKING THAT SPECIAL PERSON WHO IS RIGHT FOR US BUT IF YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH ENOUGH RELATIONSHIPS YOU BEGIN TO SUSPECT THERE'S NO RIGHT PERSON JUST DIFFERENT FLAVORS OF WRONG. WHY IS THIS? BECAUSE YOU, YOURSELF, ARE WRONG IN SOME WAY AND YOU SEEK OUT PARTNERS WHO ARE WRONG IN SOME COMPLIMENTARY WAY. BUT IT TAKES A LOT OF LIVING TO GROW FULLY INTO YOUR OWN WRONGNESS. ONLY THEN DO YOU FINALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE WRONG PERSON. BUT NOT JUST ANY WRONG PERSON. IT'S GOT TO BE THE RIGHT WRONG PERSON. SOMEONE YOU LOVINGLY GAZE UPON AND THINK, THIS IS THE PROBLEM I WANT TO HAVE.

At his interview, he says I THINK THERE IS A VARIETY OF READERS OUT THERE. DEFINITELY A BUNCH THAT ARE THE WHAT I CALL THE SELF-HELP FOR THE REST OF US KIND OF READERS, MAYBE THE MORE IRONIC, HIP, URBAN KIND EVER READER YOU WOULD FIND IN TORONTO BUT THEN I THINK THERE'S ALSO SOME BASIC MIDDLE AMERICA KIND OF READERS WHO SEE THE WISDOM IN IT. THEY JUST LIKE THE IDEAS IN IT. AND THE GROUNDEDNESS OF THE IDEAS AND THE LIFIZATIONS, THE CAREER LOVE FAMILY ISSUES THAT IT BRINGS OUT.

At the service, Andrew and the crowd stand holding hands and chant OM.

At the interview Andrew says I DON'T EXPECT THIS TO BECOME THE MAIN STREAM BIG NEW SPIRITUAL FAD. I EXPECT TO CONTINUE AS THE SORT OF COURT JESTER IN THE DO IT YOURSELF SPIRITUALITY WORLD. IF IT DOES BECOME A BIG THING, THEN I'LL WORRY ABOUT IT. I AM SURE A WAY TO HUMOROUSLY MAKE FUN OF MYSELF FOR ACHIEVING THAT.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Mary says WELL, YOU CAN CATCH IMPRINT ON WEDNESDAY EVENING AT 7:30, RIGHT HERE ON TVO. OKAY. HERE'S A MENTAL EXERCISE FOR YOU. THINK OF WAYS TO DESCRIBE RICE. DO THE WORDS WHITE AND BLAND COME TO MIND? WELL HOW ABOUT EXOTIC AND SEDUCTIVE? THEY MAY NOT BE ON YOUR LIST BUT THEY ARE ON NAOMI DOGOOD WITH. TOGETHER WITH HER HUSBAND AND THEIR TWO SONS, SHE HAS EATEN HER WAY AROUND THE WORLD AND SHE HAS THE PHOTOGRAPHS AND COOK BOOKS TO PROVE IT. SHE'S HERE TO SHARE HER PASSION FOR RICE WHICH SHE WROTE ABOUT IN Z DUCKS OF RICE. WE HAVE TWO KOPS OF THIS BEAUTIFUL BOOK TO GIVE AWAY TO KULERS WHOSE QUESTIONS MAKE IT TO AIR. PERHAPS YOU ARE WONDERING WHAT MAKES STICKY RICE SO STICKY. OR MAYBE YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW RICE IS CLASSIFIED OR GRADED. GIVE US A CALL WITH ALL OF YOUR RICE QUESTIONS, OR E-MAIL.

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Naomi is in her early forties, with long straight brown hair. She's wearing a fuchsia sweater.
A picture of her book appears briefly on screen. The cover features a picture of a bowl of rice.

Mary says HELLO. SO NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

Naomi says NICE TO BE HERE.

Mary says WE'LL SKIP THE FORE PLAY. RIGHT TO THE, WHY IS RICE SEDUCTIVE.

The caption changes to "Naomi Duguid. 'Seductions of rice.'"

Naomi says YOU TELL ME. YOU GREW UP EATING RICE. YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T GROW UP EATING RICE AND I GUESS I BECAME A RICE EATER IN MY 20'S. AND IT, I AM A BREAD EATER AND SO, I THINK RICE, WE HAVE MAYBE LOST TOUCH WITH BREAD, TOO IN A EUROPEAN CULT SURE NOT EATING AS MUCH BREAD. BUT IT IS SO, IT FEELS LIKE YOU HAVE EATEN WHEN YOU EAT IT AND YOU EAT IT WITH OTHER THINGS AND, I THINK IT IS LIKE ANYTHING, MAYBE POTATOES ARE YOUR THING FOR SOME PEOPLE WATCHING. YOU FEEL FED, IT FEELS LIKE A TASTE OF HOME. IT IS SATISFYING.

Mary says COMFORT FOOD.

Naomi says BODY'S HAPPY. IT DOESN'T ASK MUCH OF YOU. IT TAKES CARE OF YOU AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO SORT OF GO OUT AND MEET IT HALFWAY.

Mary says YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

Naomi says A STEAK ACCIDENT YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, CHEW OR, OTHER THINGS REQUIRE EFFORT. BUT THAT'S SORT OF LIKE THE BASIC, THE BED ROCK FOOD THAT EMBRACES YOU AND TAKES CARE OF YOU.

Mary says RICE, TOO, TRYING THINK OF RICE, BUT BREAD, IT IS SUCH A MASTER OF DISGUISE. ISN'T IT. I MEAN, YOU CAN... IT GOES WITH ALL OF THESE OTHER DISHES.

Naomi says YOU CAN DO THIS, DO THAT FERMENT EXACTLY. YOU CAN EAT IT STRAIGHT. I MEAN WHEN I'M FEELING A LITTLE POORLY OR A LITTLE TIRED OR PERHAPS A LITTLE SORRY FOR MYSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER. THIS WINTER ESPECIALLY, I WOULD MAKE A PLAIN RICE AND THEN I WOULD POACH AN EGG AND THEN PUT THE EGG ON THE RICE.

Mary says OH, SURE...

Naomi says YOU KNOW, WITH A LITTLE HERBS OR SOMETHING AND JUST, YOU KNOW. MAYBE I'M GOING, IS THAT A BABY FOOD THING, I DON'T KNOW. JUST AN EASY KIND OF SPOON IT UP OR USE YOUR STICKS OR WHATEVER YOU ARE EATING WITH.

Mary says IT IS FUNNY YOU SAY BABY FOOD. MY BACKGROUND BEING JAPANESE, THE VERY WATERY KIND OF RICE. IT WOULD BE GIVEN TO BABIES. AND I DO REMEMBER, TOO, AS A CHILD, YOU KNOW, IF HAD AN UPSET STOMACH. IT WAS PERFECT.

Naomi says WHAT ELSE? AND IT BINDS. IT SOOTHES. AND YOU KNOW. NO, IT'S REALLY. THAT'S CLASSIC BREAKFAST FOOD. IN JAPAN SKPRX THAILAND AND CHINA. SOUTHERN CHINA ESPECIALLY. AND PARTS OF INDIA.

Mary says WHERE DID YOUR TRAVELING TAKE OU THIS JOURNEY FOR RICE?

A picture shows a farmer standing in a lush green rice field.

Naomi says WE AREN'T VARIOUS PLACES. I SPENT TIME IN JAPAN AND WE WERE IN THAILAND, THE BOOK TRAVELS TO CHINA TO VARIOUS PLACES IN CHINA. AND TO INDIA AND THEN, THERE'S CENTRAL ASIA RICES AND, YOU KNOW, ITALIAN RICE AND ALL OF THOSE RICES THAT ARE FLAVORED, YOU GROUP GREW UP WITH MOSTLY PLANED RICES AND EAT TING WITH OTHER THINGS, WHICH IS THE MORE EAST WAY. AS YOU MOVE FURTHER WEST INTO WEST RARB IA AND THEN INTO THE MEDITERRANEAN THEN YOU HAVE FLAVORED RICES.

Mary says HAVE YOU EVER MADE RISOT TO.

Naomi says YES. YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT A PLAIN RICE. THAT IS A RICE YOU COOK WITH FLAVOR SO IT ABSORBS THE FLAVOR OF THE STOCK. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU SPOON IT UP AGAIN AND YOU CAN FEEL REALLY SOOTHED.

A picture shows a person walking down a road carrying a large load of rice on their back.

Mary says YOU KNOW WHAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT. INTERESTING AS THE MANY VARIETIES OF RICE ARE, I AM ALSO INTERESTED IN NOTHINGING WITH ALL OF THE DIFFERENT PLACES YOU WENT TO, WHAT THE ATTITUDES TOWARD RICE ARE?

Naomi says IF YOU, WHATEVER FOOD YOU ARE EATING AS YOUR STAPLE, BED ROOK FOOD. YOU, HAVE RESPECT FOR IT. IF YOU ARE A FARMER, YOU HAVE RESPECT BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW MUCH LABOR WENT INTO IT GET TING TO YOUR PLATE. AND, YOU MAY BE YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. IT IS SO SPECIAL. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

Mary says YEAH, YES.

Naomi says NOT THAT IT HAS TAKEN FOR GRANTED.
BUT IT IS BEFORE THOUGHT. JUST LIKE MOTHER'S LOVE. YOU DON'T EVEN ASK.

Mary says IT IS EXPECTED T. IS EXPECTED.

Naomi says AND WHAT IS IT? IT'S NOT ON THE TABLE.

Mary says RIGHT. DO YOU THINK... DID WE HAVE. IN WESTERN CULTURE, DO WE HAVE THE SAME ATTITUDE, DO YOU THINK TOWARDS OUR BREADS OR POTATOES AS ASIANS DO TOWARDS RICE?

Naomi says I THINK IT... PERHAPS UNTIL RECENT TIMES WHEN WE COULD ALL CHOOSE SO MANY THINGS, BUT IF WE WENT BACK 50 YEARS AND INTO, SO THAT JUST AFTER THE SECOND WAR SKPRX YOU HAD AND YOU WERE IN IRELAND, UNTIL QUITE RECENTLY, IF YOU WERE IN IRELAND AND EVEN THOU, YOU KNOW YOU HAVEN'T EATEN UNLESS YOU HAVE HAD POTATOES, SAY. AND THEN IN FRANCE, AS WELL. I MEAN, THE RATE OF BREAD CON UCHBLINGZ IS GOING DOWN.

Mary says IS IT?

Naomi says YEAH, APPARENTLY BUT UNTIL RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE THERE'S BREAD ON THE TABLE. I MEAN, IT IS WITHOUT THOUGHT. YOU REACH FOR IT. IT'S NOT THE MAIN MEAL BUT IT'S THE FOOD. IT IS, YOU KNOW, AND BREAK, TO BREAK BREAD WITH SOMEONE, I MEAN, THAT'S IMBEDDED IN THE LANGUAGE. RIGHT. THAT'S EATING WHACHLT'S EAT SNING BREAKING BREAD, RIGHT. AS, AND THEN EATING IN CHINESE, TO EAT IS TO EAT RICE OR IN JAPANESE, HAVE YOU EATEN? HAVE YOU EATEN RICE?

Mary says YES, YES.

Naomi says OR THAI. SO, YOU KNOW, AND YOU THINK, GRB, THESE THINGS WE SHOULD HAVE REAL RESPECT FOR AND IN NORTH AMERICA BEFORE THE EUROPEAN CONQUEST, CORN WOULD PRESUMABLY HAVE HAD II DON'T KNOW NATIVE LANGUAGES BUT THE SAME PLACE IN NATIVE LANGUAGE I WOULD THINK AND ALL THE WAY DOWN INTO MEXICO BUT IT'S THE GRAIN, THE MOTHER GODDESS, RIGHT.

Mary says YES. YEAH. I AM BOGGLEED.

Naomi says THERE'S SOMETHING NOT PRIMAL BUT THE WORD.

Mary says IT DOES...

Naomi says NOT ABOUT COOK OR ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

Mary says IT'S BEYOND THAT.

Naomi says IT'S SYMBOLIC.

Mary says NOW YOU CAME ACROSS. IN YOUR BOOK. BY THE WAY, I HAVE TO SAY, THE PICTURES ARE GORGEOUS. IT WAS THE TWO OF YOU THAT TOOK THE PICTURES.

Naomi says WE BOTH TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS AND WE WOULD BOTH POKE AROUND.

Mary says AND I AM AMAZED. I MEAN, I AM BOGGLED BY THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF RICES. SO INTERESTING. HOW MANY DID YOU COME ACROSS?

Four pictures flash bye, each showing nine different types of rice, with different sizes, textures and colours, ranging from a bright white to black.

Naomi says WELL YOU CAN'T COUNT. YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST, WE WERE IN INDIA AT CHRISTMAS TIME. AND I WAS IN A MARKET IN ONE REGION OF INDIA AND THINGS DON'T TRAVEL SO MUCH IN INDIA. AND THERE WERE STILL IN THIS ONE MARKET IN SMALL PLACE, THERE PROBABLY WERE 12 OR 15 KINDS OF RICE AND THAT WOULD JUST BE LOCAL.

Mary says JUST LOCAL.

Naomi says JEFFLY WAS IN SHRI LA NKA. ALL OF RICES GROWN THERE. SO YOU ADDED THOSE THINGS UP. THE RICE AND THE RESEARCH INSTITUTE IN PHILIPPINES, HAS, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER MANY THOUSANDS...

Mary says THOUSANDS??

Naomi says YOU KNOW 8,000 KINDS OF RICE IN THEIR STOCK. BUT AT ANY ONE TIME, HOW MANY YOU CAN BUY? WELL, IN TO RONT OH, WE'RE REALLY LUCKY. YOU CAN DO INTO AN INDIAN STORE AND FIND A RANGE OF RICES FROM THOSE REEJ YONS OF WORLD OR INTO A CHINESE STORE AND NOW YOU WILL FIND USUALLY THAI RICES AND AMERICAN GROWN CHINESE STYLE RICES AND AMERICAN GROWN JAPANESE STYLE RICES AND SO ON SKPPLT THERE'S ALL OF THE ITALIAN RICES.

Mary says TELL BUS THE RACES YOU BROUGHT IN.

Several plates are set on the table, each containing a different variety of rice.

Naomi says SNOOL THL PPL AND THAT'S A STICKY RICE, AND YOU GREW UP EATING WHITE RICE.

Mary says YES.

Naomi says BUT BROWN ICE AND BRAK RICES, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME. IN OTHER WORDS, APPROXIMATE RICES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN, HAD THE OUTER LAYER, OUTER SKIN HUFKED OFF. SO, INSIDE HERE IS A WHITE GRAIN. I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN BREAK ONE BUT IT'S WHITE INSIDE. JUST BLACK ON THE OUTSIDE. AND THE ONE FURTHER OVER IS A RED RICE AND IT IS PARTLY POLISHED AND IT IS A SHRILA NKA RICE WE ONLY RECENTLY.

Mary says WHAT DO YOU MEAN POLISHED?

Naomi says THAT THE RICE, SOCIETY RICE IS HARVESTED AND THEN THE HUFK COMES OFF, A KIND OF A ROUGH THING. AND THEN INSIDE IS A BROWN OR BLACK OR RED GRAIN. AND YOU CAN COOK THAT AND THAT'S BROWN RICE AM YOU CAN COOK THAT. BUT OTHERWISE RKTS IT CAN BE POLISHED SOME MORE SO THAT THAT OUTER LAYER COMES OFF AND THEN YOU HAVE A WHITE RICE. AND THAT, THIS IS THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE USED TO. SO WE HAVE A NUMBER OF WHITE RICES HERE. WE HAVE THAI JASMINE. WE HAVE A MASMANTI AND AN ANLED AND THEY PRIZE AGED RICE TDRIS OUT MORE.

Mary says WHAT IS AGED? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Naomi says IT IS STORED, STORED FOR 10 OR 20 YEARS. PEOPLE FROM INDIA, FROM NORTHERN INDIA FROM THAT CULTURE WHEN HAVE MONEY AND THEREFORE CHOICE IN THE FOOD. TALK ABOUT THEIR PARENTS FOR EXAMPLE, BUYING RICE AND PUTTING IT ASIDE FOR 20 YEARS TO SERVE AT A WEDDING.

Mary says WHAT HAPPENS, WHAT DO THEY SAY HAPPENS TO THE FLAVOR?

Naomi says IT GETS MORE REFINED OR AROMATIC AND THEN IT GETS SOAKED A LITTLE BEFORE BEING COOKED SO REABSORBS SOME FLAVOR AND SO IT COOKS TO A FLUFFYNESS. NOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE ABOUT HOW YOUR MOTHER COOKS RICE AND SHE WASH ITS AND THEN LET'S IT SOAK AND THE WATER SOAKING HELP ITS COOK MORE EVENLY. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SOAK RICE AND THE STRUKDZ DOESN'T APPLY FOR EVERY KIND OF RICE BUT FOR HER RICE, THAT'S WHAT SHE DID AND THAT WORKS. THEN YOU CAN ALSO, THIS RICE OVER HERE IS A VERY WHITE LOOKING AND IT IS A MEDITERRANEAN RICE. IT'S FOR RISOT TI.

Mary says AN ITALIAN RICE.
NOW LET US TAKE A CALL. WE HAVE CALLER OS THE LINE. ANN IS ON THE LINE.

Naomi says HI.

The caller says HOW ARE YOU.

s I AM WELL.

Naomi says GOOD.

Mary says GO AHEAD.

The caller says HOW MUCH NUTRIENTS DOES RIGHT HAVE?

Mary says GOOD QUESTION.

Naomi says IT'S A GOOD QUESTION AND I AM NOT A NUTRITIONIST BUT I DID, WE DID A LOT OF READING, POKING AROUND IN THE LIBRARY AT U OF T ABOUT ALL OF THIS. HERE'S ONE WAY I FOUND REALLY IMPRESSIVE. SORT OF STUCK IN MY MIND TO THINK ABOUT RICE NUTRITION. IF A MAN OR A WOMAN ADULT ATE ALL OF THEIR 2500 TO 3,000 CALORIES FROM WHITE RICE, OKAY. THIS IS HARD TO MANAGEMENT BUT JUST IMAGINE THIS PERSON, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD HAVE MORE THAN THE REQUIRED DAILY ALLOWANCE OF PROTEIN.

Mary says PROTEIN.

Naomi says THEY WOULD HAVE PROTEIN AS WELL AS HAVING THEIR STAFERPS AND SO ON. WE ALWAYS THINK, EAT YOUR PRO TEENS, YES, DON'T FILL UP THE RICE. EAT YOUR MEAT OR EAT YOUR...

Mary says THAT'S INTERESTING.

Naomi says IT'S REALLY INTERESTING THAT THERE'S ENOUGH PROTEIN TO SUSTAIN, YOU KNOW, LIFE. WHAT IT DOESN'T HAVE. IT DOESN'T HAVE ALL OF THE MINERALS AND DEPENTEDING AND IT WOULDN'T HAVE ALL OF THE VITAMINS BUT IT IS A GOOD FOOD. SO IF YOU HAVE A CHILD THAT'S A VEGETARIAN. EATING LENTILS AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO EAT SOME CHEESE OR DAIRY OR SOMETHING TO BALANCE IT OUT. BUT ACTUALLY TLRX IS A LOT OF, THERE IS PROTEIN IN RICE. ABOUT 8 PERCENT AND IT IS GI JESTABLE. 8 PERCENT IS THE NUMBER THAT STICKS IN MY MIND.

Mary says WAY BACK WHEN AND EVEN TODAY. PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE MONEY, WHO ARE VERY POOR WILL HAVE A HUGE, A SUBSTANTIAL PART OF THEIR DIET IS RICE. AND YOU THINK, OH, MY GOSH. THEY ARE JUST EATING RICE FERMENT THEY'RE NOT... BUT THEY ARE GETTING PROTEIN.

Naomi says THEY ARE GETTING PR TEEN AND THEN SO IN RURAL THAILAND, IN DAYS WHEN PEOPLE WERE POORER, THEY HAVE WOULD FISH SAUCE KP GREEN VEGETABLE AND THEIR FINE FAMILIARITY AND THEY ARE FINE WITH THAT. THE FISH SAUCE GIVES THEM AMINO ACIDS THEY WOULD MIS, SOME TRACE THINGS BUT BECOMELY, A REALLY INTERESTING THING AND ALL OF OUR NOTIONS ABOUT WHITE AND EMPTY AND BLAND. NO. IT IS FOOD. AND SO ARE OUR INSTINCT TO THINK THAT IT IS SUSTAINING US, IS A GOOD ONE.

Mary says YEAH, IT'S TRUE. HOW LONG HAVE HUMANS BEEN ULTIMATE VATING RICE?

Naomi says YOU KNOW, A LOT OF ARGUMENTS ABOUT. THAT IT DEPEND OS WHICH CULTURE, WHERE YOU THINK RICE IN INDIA OR. TRACE CULTIVATED RICE, I DON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBERS BUT 8,000 OR 12000 YEARS AGO, WE ARE TALKING NUMBERS AT THE 0'S. A LONG TIME. AND CLEARLY THERE'S WILD RICES, I DON'T MEAN WILD RICE IN A NORTH AMERICAN SENSE BUT RICES LIKE THESE RICES BUT THAT OCCUR IN THE WILD AND PEOPLE GATHER THEM AND THEN EVENTUALLY STARTED AGRICULTURE AND STARTED PLANTING.

A black and white picture shows a group of people farming rice using traditional tools and ways.

Mary says DEAD THIS SHOT HERE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THIS SHOT IS.

Naomi says THAT'S IN VIETNAM AND NOT THAT FAR FROM THE RED RIVER DELTA AND PEM ARE LING SNOOM THEY TRANSPLANTS, THE WOMAN BRENT OVER IN THE FRONT LEFT, SHE'S TRANCE IMPORTANTING RICE SEEDLINGS. DOES IT MAKE YOUR BACK HURT WHEN YOU LOOK AT HER? THE RICE SEEDLINGS AND THEN SEPARATED AND TRANSPLANTED INTO A WET PATTYY. SO THAT THEY CAN GROW AND EXPAND, RIGHT. AND SO THAT'S WHAT SHE'S DOING AND OTHER PEOPLES ARE REMEMBER...

another black and white picture shows two people standing in a large lush rice paddy.

Naomi says AND THAT'S IN BALI. ININCREDIBLE RICE TERRACES IN BALSKPI THE WATER, IT'S A TROPICAL CLIMATE AND THERE'S not VERY CLEAR SEASONALITY IN BALI SO WATER ALL YEAR ROUND BECAUSE IT FLOWS DOWN FROM THE VOLCANOS AND EVERYTHING'S IRRIGATED AND YOU CAN BE IN A LANDSCAPE WITH RIGHT TLIK TING AND THEN SOME GUY JUST PLANTING FERMENT I MEAN, IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM JAPAN AND NORTH AMERICA WITH CLEAR SKY SEASONS.

Another black and white picture shows a person climbing a ladder onto an elevated flooded terrace.

Mary says RIGHT. I AM REALLY CURIOUS TO KNOW AS FAR AS, I KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS BUT WORLD RICE PRODUCTION. HOW MUCH TELEVISION IS STILL MANUAL LABOR?

Naomi says I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS. BUT, THERE'S TWO QUESTIONS TLRX'S HOW MUCH IS STILL MAN Y'ALL LAB SKPOR HOW MUCH IS CONSUMED WITHIN 50 MILES OF WHERE IT IS GROWN? IF YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE QUESTIONSS. KIND OF... YES, THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT LINKED. YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S RICE GROWING IN EUROPE AND MOST OF IT IS MECHANIZED BUT I SAW SOMEBODY SEWING RICE BY HAND IN SPAIN FIVE YEARS AGO IT'S OOTS...

Mary says IN THE LOCAL AREA.

Naomi says LOCAL RICE EATERS. I THINK IT REALLY DEPENDS, IN JAPAN MOSTLY MECHANIZE BUD SMALL AGRICULTURE. IN THAILAND, THERE'S LOCAL RICE PRODUCERS AND THEN THERE'S SOME LARGER IT KIND OF VARIOUS. BUT, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE INPUTS COST MONEY AND IF PEOPLE MAKE A LIVING WITHOUT SPENDING - AUTO OLD TRA DITIONDZ WILL CARRY ON.

Mary says LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL. BET Z ON THE LINE. HI, BETTY.

The caller says HELLO THERE.

Mary says GO AHEAD.

The caller says HI, I AM REALLY ENJOYING THIS TODAY. ESPECIALLY THE PICTURES. WHAT IT IS, I USE RICE QUITE AUFERN IN STIR FRIES, DESSERTS AND, WHAT I AM WONDERING, I BUY JASMINE RICE QUITE AUFERN, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO THE FLAVOR GETS INTO THAT. IT IS GROWN THAT WAY OR...

Naomi says DID SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING TO IT? NO, THATATE FAVOR OF IT. THAT LOVELY SCENT AS IT IS COOKING, THAT LOVELY SORT OF AROMA. THAT'S WHY IT IS CALLED JASMINE. IT MULL NE THAI. THAT'S THE VARIETY. IT COMES WITH THAT SCENT. AND THE RICE ALWAYS HAS A NUTTY SCENT ESPECIAL LITE AGED. AND THAT'S, THAT'S IN THE GRAIN ITSELF. YEAH.

Mary says WHAT WOULD BE THE MOST, THE SORT OF THE ELITE RICES, REALLY EXPENSIVE RICES.

Naomi says WELL YOU KNOW ACCIDENT SOMETIMES I THINK ESLEET BEING MARKETING. I THINK IN EVERY CULTURE, THERE'S SOME RICES THAT ARE PRIZED MORE THAN OTHERS SO SO ALL OF THESE GRADES OF ICE AND GO INTO A RICE MARKET, THEN THE RAGE OF PRICES QUITE PUBLIC. SO TLE'S SOME SPRRP AND THEN THE KBOIN FOR ITS RICE AND THEN THE AGED BASMATI, WOULD BE ANOTHER CLASSY RIGHT. I THINK ORGANIC RICES HAVE BETTER FLAVOR, I THINK SUN DRIED RICES, I MEAN, I AM GOING THERE, YOU ASKED ME. SUN DRIED RICE. IN JAPAN, I STAY WIDE SOME RICE FARMERS AND THEY JUST GREW THEIR OWN AND THEY DEPENDENT ADD CHEMICALS AND ALSO LET THE RICE ACCIDENT INSTEAD OF DRYING WITH MACHINE, LET IT DRY IN THE SUN. NATURALLY. AND IT, IT JUST... IT JUST TASTED WONDERFUL.

Mary says REALLY?

Naomi says SO UBUT I THINK THAT THE BEST RICE IS THE RICE THAT YOU LOVE THE MOST. WHATEVER IT S YOUR SPECIAL RICE FOR YOU. NOT WELL BRNING SOMEONE ELSE'S TASTE BUT BEING ABOUT ENGAGED AND COMMITTED TO YOUR OWN RICE THAT TASTES HOME TO YOU. THATATE BEST RICE.

Mary says YEAH, I HAVE TO TELL YOU SOMETHING. IT'S INTERESTING TWORX DIFFERENT PEOPLE SAID TO ME, THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN COOK RICE AND PEOPLE WHO CAN'T.

Naomi says THAT'S SO MEAN. I I SO DISAS A GROORX GREE.

Mary says AND PARKS ARNTLY THEY ARE AMONG THE ONES THAT CAN'T COOK. I JUST BEING THAT, I JUST CAN'T, EVERY TIME I TRY AND I FOLLOW THE STRUCKS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

Naomi says I THINK AUFERN THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE BOXES ARE NOT VERY USE FERL. AND GENERAL LITE STRUCKS ON BOXES TELL YOU TO USE MORE WATER THAN YOU NEED BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE IT ISN'T DRY BUT MUSHY. SO, I THINK THAT IT IS LIKE PASTRY. IT IS LIKE SOMEONE HAS Z COOL HANDS AND GOOD AT PASTRY. WELL, AM I CONDEMNED TO BE THE PERSON THAT CAN'T?

Mary says LIKE THE GREEN THUMB GARDENER.

Naomi says I JUST THINK, OH, NO.

Mary says DO YOU THINK EVERYONE CAN COOK GOOD RICE?

Naomi says ABSOLUTELY. A GOOD SOLID POT AND A RELAXED ATTITUDE AND MAKE IT, MAKE IT 10 DAYS IN A ROW. RYE. MAKE IT 10 DAYS IN A ROW.

Mary says YOU SAID POT. DO WE MEAN A... YOU CAN BUY A RICE COOKER.

Naomi says DO YOU USE A RICE KEERK. I DO USE A RICE COOKER BUT A BIG HEAVIER POT I PREFER. I LIKE THE TASTE OF T. IT'S STUPID.

Mary says A RICE COOKER AND I NEVER USE IT. I SHOULD, I HAVE IT. I USE A POT.

Naomi says RIGHT. SEE THERE IT IS.

Mary says I DON'T KNOW WHY.

Naomi says IT IS JUST YOUR CHOICE BUT A RICE COOKER WORK REALLY WELL. WASH THE RICE WELL. USE A RICE COOKER AND, FORGIVE YOURSELF.

Mary says THAT'S RIGHT. ENJOY IT.

Naomi says ENJOY IT. EXACTLY.

Mary says WE CERTAINLY ENJOY YOUR BOOK. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Naomi says IT HAS BEEN FUN.

Mary says NOOMENT COME BACK GO. THE CO-AUTHOR OF DESUCTIONS OF RICE. IT'S PUBLISHED BY RANDOM HOUSE OF CANADA. FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT THE WEB SITE....

The picture of Naomi's book reappears, with a caption that reads "www.hotsoursaltysweet.com."

Mary says That's another great book of hers and her husband's. And copies of the book go to Anna and Betty. Congratulations. But that is it for our show today, thank you for watching. And please join us each weekday, Monday to Friday, for More to Life at 1 o'clock.

Watch: Logic, Rice