Transcript: Education and Hydro | Dec 12, 2004

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

A clip shows a gavel banging against a desk, and MPPs voting in the Legislature.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON
"FOURTH READING."
KEEP COAL FIRES BURNING?
ARE THE LIBERALS TRYING
TO BREAK ANOTHER KEY
ELECTION PROMISE?

Fast clips show coal factories; politicians walking as they carry files and a paper that reads "Air we can breathe, no more coal."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a grey coat over a light blue shirt.

STEVE says HI EVERYBODY I
AM STEVE PAIKIN AND
WELCOME TO
"FOURTH READING" WE WILL
GET TO THAT ENERGY STORY IN JUST
A MOMENT. FIRST IN WHAT THE GORVERNMENT SAYS IS AN
EFFORT TO PROVIDE
STABILITY IN EDUCATION
SYSTEM, THE LIBERALS
WANT ONTARIO TEACHERS TO
SIGN LONGER CONTRACTS
WITH THEIR SCHOOL
BOARDS.
AND EDUCATION MINISTER
KENNEDY SAYS TEACHERS
WHO DO SIGN FOUR YEAR AS
OPPOSED TO TWO-YEAR
DEALS WILL GET
INCENTIVES IF THIS
STRATEGY SOUNDS FAMILIAR,
IT IS BECAUSE IT IS.
THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN
TRYING TO INCENT DOCTORS
THE SAME WAY THE DOCTORS
TURNED DOWN THIS
APPROACH WHAT WILL THE
TEACHERS DO?

Howard Hampton appears in an interview. He’s in his fifties; he has short blond hair and is clean-shaven. He wears a dark suit and tie. A caption below him reads "Howard Hampton, Ontario NDP Leader."

He says YOU CAN'T BE OUT
THERE SAYING YOU KNOW
THREE AND HALF, 4 PERCENT FOR
COLLEGE TEACHERS TALKING
ABOUT 35 PERCENT FOR PHYSICIANS
AND THEN SAY TO
TEACHERS, YOU SIGN ON
FOR A FOUR-YEAR DEAL AND
IT IS TWO PERCENT TWO PERCENT
AND THEN MAYBE
SOMETHING DOWN THE ROAD AND YOU CAN’T DO THAT TO
BOARDS; BECAUSE BOARDS RECOGNIZE THAT THEY
ARE GOING LOSE SOME
OF THEIR TEACHER.

John Tory appears. He’s in his late forties; he has short brown hair and is clean-shaven. A caption below him reads "John Tory, Ontario PC Leader."

He says IF I WAS A TEACHER
TODAY I MIGHT WELL BE
LOOKING ACROSS THE
DEPARTMENTS OF THE
GOVERNMENT AND SAYING I
MAYBE SHOULD WORRY THAT
I WILL BE FEELING LIKE A
DOCTOR IN COUPLE MONTHS.
THAT SOMETHING THAT ALL
KIND OF SOUNDED GOOD IT
SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS
SUBJECT OF NEGOTIATION
SUDDENLY IS BEING IMPOSED ON
ME BY THIS GOVERNMENT
WHICH SEEMS TO TAKE
GREAT DELIGHT IN MAKE
HEADLINE-GRABBING
ANNOUNCEMENTS AND THEN
JAMMING THINGS ON PEOPLE AND
YOU KNOW NOT REALLY
THINKING THROUGH ANY OF
THE CONSEQUENCES.

Gerard Kennedy appears. He’s in his forties; has wavy blond hair and wears glasses.
A caption below him reads "Gerard Kennedy, Ontario Education Minister."

He says THERE MAY BE SOME THINGS TO WORK THROUGH
AND WE’RE PREPARED TO THAT.
OUR MESSAGE TO PARENTS IS
WE WILL DO WHATEVER WE
HAVE TO DO TO CONTRIBUTE
TO GOOD PEACE AND STABILITY
IN THE SCHOOLS.

Steve says PEACE AND STABILITY
INDEED BUT AT WHAT PRICE.
HERE TO HELP US ANSWER THAT IS
SEAN CONWAY FORMER
LIBERAL CABINET MINISTER,

Sean is in his late forties; he has blond hair; is clean-shaven and wears glasses.

Steve continues AND DAVE COOKE FORMER
NDP CABINET MINISTER.

Dave is in late forties; he has short dark hair and is clean-shaven.

Steve says AND THIS WEEK, INSTEAD
OF JANET ECKHART WE HAVE
JOHN BAIRD FORMER CONSERVATIVE CABINET MINISTER
AND CURRENT MPP FOR
CARLTON.

John is in his late thirties; he has short brown hair and is clean-shaven. He wears a dark suit, white shirt and yellow patterned tie.

Steve says THANK YOU FOR PINCH
HITTING THIS WEEK.
I WANT TO GO TO FORMER
EDUCATION MINISTER
FIRST.
THE GOVERNMENT INCENTING
SCHOOL BOARDS TO SIGN
LONGER TAOELS IS THIS
SOUND STRATEGY?

Conway says I THINK IT IS VERY
SENSIBLE IT WOULDN'T BE
EASY BUT I THINK IT IS
CERTAINLY RIGHT POLICY.
LIKE ANYBODY WHO HAS
BEEN ONTARIO EDUCATIONAL
DEBATE FOR LAST FEW
YEARS I WOULD THINK
AGREE THAT PEACE AND
STABILITY TO USE MINUTE
CENTER'S PHRASE ARE VERY
I THINK PRIZED GOALS
HERE AND I CERTAINLY
THINK THIS IS GOOD
STRATEGY.

Steve says THE QUESTION IS WHAT
WILL IT THAT I CAN TO
HAVE THAT HAPPEN.
AND DAVE COOKE ANOTHER EARLIER
EDUCATION MINISTER IF
YOU SIGN FOUR YEAR DEAL
2 PERCENT IN FIRST YEAR AND 2.5
YEAR IN YEAR THREE AND
3 PERCENT IN YEAR FOUR ARE
THOSE NUMBERS HIGH
ENOUGH IN YOUR VIEW TO
MAKE TEACHERS WANT TO
SIGN ON?

Cooke answers WELL PLUS THERE IS A
CHUNK OF PROFESSIONAL
DEVELOPMENT MONEY I
THINK IN PART OF THE
PACKAGE, TOO.
IT MAY BE, I MEAN
THERE IS AN INCENTIVE
FOR THE TEACHERS EVEN
WITHOUT THIS OFFER TO
TRY TO ACHIEVE PEACE AND
STABILITY BECAUSE I
THINK BOTH THE MINISTRY
OF EDUCATION AND THE
TEACHER'S UNIONS ARE
A BIT ON TRIAL BECAUSE
OF THE PROBLEMS IN LAST
NUMBER YEARS.
THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH
THIS IS THAT THE WAY
THAT IT HAS BEEN
ANNOUNCED, IT NOW HAS
SET A FLOOR BECAUSE THE
MINISTER HAS SAID VERY
CLEARLY IN HIS LETTER
THAT IF SCHOOL
BOARDS CAN FIND MORE
MONEY THEY CAN GO ABOVE
THIS.
WELL IT IS UNLIKELY THAT
THAT ANY OF THE LOCAL BARGAINING
TABLES OF THE TEACHERS
MEMBERS ARE GOING SEE THIS
IS SETTLEMENT.
THEY WILL BE GOING
FOR MORE.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT
SCHOOL BOARDS HAVE THAT
KIND OF MONEY ON
PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT MONEY
WHICH I CAN'T REMEMBER
EXACT AMOUNT BUT ITS TENS OF MILLIONS
I GUESS I WOULD PREFER
TO INSTEAD OF THAT BEING
COUPLED WITH LONGER TERM
CONTRACTS TO ACTUALLY BE
COUPLED WITH A PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENTSTRATEGY SO
I UNDERSTAND THE GOAL I THINK
THEY ARE REALLY IF THERE
WAS GO TOING A BIGGER
PICTURE SOLUTION WE
WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE
TYPE NEGOTIATING WE DO
IN ONTARIO AND TAKE A
LOOK AT WHETHER WE NEED
TO GO REGION OR
PROVNCIAL BARGAINING.

Cooke says THAT'S ANOTHER STORY.

Steve says LET'S GET JOHN'S TAKE
ON THIS.
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW?

John says I DON'T THINK IT IS
PEACE AND STABILITY.
I WILL BE CYNICAL FOR A
MOMENT SUGGEST IT IS
PARTISAN AND POLITICAL.
I MEAN THESE GUYS DO NOT
WANT TO BE NEGOTIATING
WITH TEACHERS FEDERATION
IN RUN UP TO NEXT
ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
AND IF THEY CAN GET THAT
DEALT WITH NOW, JUST AS
THEY TRIED TO DEAL WITH
PHYSICIANS, IT
ELIMINATES A HUGE PROBLEM
FOR THEM.

STEVE says LET'S BE
CLEAR.
IT IS THREE YEARS TO THE
NEXT ELECTION.

John says THE CLOSER YOU GET TO
AN ELECTION, WHETHER IT’S PHYSICIANS WHETHER IT’S TEACHERS
GOVERNMENT TEND TO BE ON
THEIR BEST BEHAVIOR
BEFORE THEIR YOU KNOW
MEETING WITH THE PEOPLE
DURING THE ELECTION
CAMPAIGN AND I THINK
THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL
ABOUT AND THEY ARE
PREPARED TO SPEND TAX
PAYER'S MONEY TO GET
THIS POLITICAL PROBLEM
GO AWAY.
THE MINISTER IS BEGINNING
TO MICRO MANAGE THESE
NEGOTIATIONS.
ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHAT
WAS HAPPENING NOW.
I DON'T THINK THERE’S A
SINGLE TEACHER'S
FEDERATION THAT HAS COME
TO AN AGREEMENT OR VERY
FAR ALONG WITH THE SCHOOL BOARDS.

Conway says GOOD PEOPLE OF
CARLETON WOULD SAY THAT
IT IS A VERY SENSIBLE
THING FOR ANY GOVERNMENT
TO TRY TO GET A LONGER
TERM AGREEMENT WITH
TEACHERS NURSES DOCTORS
REGARDLESS OF AS WHAT
THE ELECTION COMES.

John says YOU WANT TO BE
FINANCIALLY AND FISCALLY ACCOUNTABLE AS
WELL.
AND IF YOU’RE GOING TO TAKE
TAXPAYER'S MONEY TO
THROW AWAY TO JUST TRY
TO KEEP THEM QUIETIN THE RUN
UP TOWARDS AN ELECTION
CAMPAIGN, WE ARE NOT
SURE ABOUT THAT.

Conway says WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT
ESCALATION HERE THAT'S
LIKE IT WAS IN 1970 AND
80S DOUBLE DIGIT WE ARE
TALKING 2, 3, PERHAPS 3.5 PERCENT
OVER THREE OR FOUR-YEAR
PERIOD.

Cooke says IT IS PRETTY SMALL
NUMBERS I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY WILL SETTLE FOR
THIS.
THAT'S GOING TO BE THE
DIFFICULT AND I THINK
THEY ARE GOING TO BE
AFTER LOCAL SCHOOL
BOARDS FOR CONSIDERABLY
MORE MONEY.
AND OF COURSE IT DOES
NOT ADDRESS SOME OF THE
OTHER BIG ISSUES REALLY
COSTLY ISSUES LIKE THE
REQUEST THAT THE
ELEMENTARY TEACHERS HAVE
FOR 200 MINUTES OF PREP
TIME.
WHICH IS A 25 PERCENT IN SOME
PLACES 35 PERCENT INCREASE WHAT
THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.
AND THAT'S BIG BUCKS.

Steve says THERE IS HOWEVER,
YOU MENTIONED BIG BUCKS AND SO THERE IS, THERE
AN OPPORTUNITY FOR
TEACHERS TO MAKE EVEN
MORE MONEY IN THIS THEY
HAVE TALKED ABOUT AN
ECONOMIC REOPENER
CLAUSE.
WHICH MEANS THAT IF
REVENUES ARE HIGHER THAN
EXPECTED ECONOMY IS DOING A
LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN
EXPECTED.
THE SALARIES CAN BE
REAJUSTED UPWARD YOU KNOW
PRESUMABLY THAT'S A
LITTLE MORE INCENTIVE TO
SIGN ON TO IS IT NOT?

John says YOU BET IS ALL NOT
WELL THOUGH IN EDUCATION
FRONT.
I THINK THE TEACHERS
FEDERATION AND MANY
SCHOOL BOARDS WHERE ALL
SAYING, YOU KNOW EXCITED ABOUT THE CHANGE IN
GOVERNMENT.
AND THERE HAS BEEN A LOT
THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED
THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHOSE EXPECTATIONS ARE
RAISED PRETTY HIGH BY
DALTON MCGUINTY AND HIS
TEAM I PREDICT AS WE GET
INTO THE NEW YEAR THIS
IS GOING TO BE REALLY
NEXT FLASH POINT FOR
PROBLEMS FOR THIS
GOVERNMENT.
PARTICULARLY IF WE LOOK
TOWARDS FEBRUARY AND
MARCH.

Steve says THE DOWNSIDE OF THIS
IS YES THE GOVERNMENT
WANTS TEACHER UNION TO GO FOR
FOUR YEAR DEALS.
BUT ALSO, OUT THERE IS THE
OPTION OF TWO YEAR
DEALS.
SO, IN ITS EFFORT IT IS
HOLDING OUT ALL OF THE
CARROTS SAYING WE YES WE
CAN DO FOUR YEARS IF YOU GUYS WILL SIGN ON.
BUT IF YOU DON’T SIGN ON HERE IS
A TWO YEAR DEAL AND
DOESN’T TWO YEARS CREATE
ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT
JOHN JUST TALKED ABOUT?

Conway answers WELL THIS IS A BIT OF
ROLL OF THE DICE BECAUSE
PART OF YOUR CALCULATION
WHETHER YOU ARE ON THE
GOVERNMENT SIDE OR THE
FEDERATION, THE TEACHER
FEDERATION SIDE IS WHERE DO
YOU THINK ECONOMY MIGHT
BE IN TWO VERSUS FOUR
YEARS.
AND YOU KNOW THERE’S AN
ARGUMENT TO BE SAID IS
THAT MAYBE YOU DO WANT TO SIGN
LONGER TERM MORTGAGE
RIGHT NOW THAN SHORTER
TERM MORTGAGE OR LONGER
TERM CONTRACT THAT'S
GOING TO BE A CALCULATION
AND SOMEONE ALONG THE WAY WILL WISH THEY
HAD DONE IT DIFFERENTLY.
I DO THINK THAT BOTH
SIDES ARE REALLY GOING TO
HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT
WE ARE TALKING PUBLIC
EDUCATION.
THERE ARE TAXPAYERS AND
PARENTS OUT THERE WHO I
THINK WANT SOME GOOD
SENSE AND SOME STABILITY
JOHN’S RIGHT I DON'T
DISAGREE THAT THIS IS
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
EASILY.
BUT IF THIS IS JUST
ANOTHER BIG FLASH POINT
AND ANOTHER BIG FIGHT I
WOULD SAY TO THE
LEADERSHIP IN PUBLIC
EDUCATION BE CAREFUL.

Cooke says I DON'T SEE TOO MUCH
DOWNSIDE.
FOR THE TEACHER'S UNIONS
AT THIS POINT.
THERE IS YOU SAID IS
THERE’S WAGE OPENER.
THEY WILL GET 2 PERCENT IN
FIRST TWO YEARS.
AND THEY WILL PROBABLY
GET A LITTLE MORE FROM THE LOCAL
SCHOOL BOARDS.
AND THEN THEY GET THE
EXTRA AT THE END.
I MEAN I THINK YOU WILL
SEE A LOT OF FOUR-YEAR
CONTRACTS I THINK THAT
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE
BIG PICTURE PROBLEM.

Steve says WE SHALL KEEP WATCHING.
ONE MORE TOPIC COMING
UP ARE THE LIBERALS ON THE
VERGE OF BREAKING
ANOTHER MAJOR CAMPAIGN
PROMISE.
THIS TIME, SHUTTING
DOWN THE COAL-BURNING
ELECTRICITY PLANTS BY
2007?

Dalton McGuinty appears delivering a speech. He’s in his forties; he has short brown hair, is clean-shaven and wears a dark suit, light blue shirt and red tie.

He says I WANT YOU TO KNOW
THAT VERY VERY FIRST
COMMITMENT CONTAINED IN THIS PLAN
GROWING
STRONG COMMUNITY IS OUR COMMITTMENT TO SHUT DOWN
THOSE COAL-FIRED
GENERATORS.
MY COMMITMENT IN THAT
REGARD IS UNEQUIVOCAL.

Steve says THAT WAS THEN.
AND NOW LIBERALS ARE
NOT SO DEFINITIVE.
ONTARIO ENERGY MINISTER
SAYS HIS GOVERNMENT IS
CONSIDERING LEAVING SOME
COAL BURNERS OPERATIONAL
JUST IN CASE.

Dwight Duncan appears in an interview. He’s in his fifties; he has short brown hair and is clean-shaven; he wears a striped shirt and suit.

He says I HAVE SAID THAT IT MAY BE PRUDENT TO KEEP SOME
BURNERS I DIDN'T SAY
PLANTS.
I SAID BURNERS I WAS
VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.
ON RESERVE.
AND IN THE EVENT ON
AFTER AN EMERGENCY
THAT'S KEEPING OUR
PROMISE.

Steve continues OPOSITION CRITICS
ACCUSED THE LIBERALS OF
BREAKING ONE OF THE CORNER
STONES OF THEIR 2003
ELECTION PLATFORM.

An extract of the platform appears. It reads "Air we can breathe; no more coal."

John Tory says WHEN THEY MADE THE
PROMISE IN THEIR
BROCHURE IS IT DIDN'T
SAY THERE WAS NO SIGN
THERE SAYING BY THE WAY
WE WILL KEEP FEW BURNERS
OPEN.
OR IT WOULD BE PRUDENT.
I AGREE WITH HIM IT
WOULD BE PRUDENT FOR
THEM NOT HAVE MADE THE
PROMISE TO CLOSE THESE
THINGS DOWN WHICH IS
WHAT IT SAID.
WITHOUT A PLAN IN PLACE TO REPLACE THE POWER.

A clip shows a coal plant.

Steve says COAL FIRE GENERATES
ABOUT 235 PERCENT OF ONTARIO
ENERGY SUPPLY.
THE LIBERALS SAY THIS
POWER COULD BE REPLACED
WITH OTHER ENERGY
SOURCES.
SUCH AS HYDRO OR WIND.
BUT CRITICS SAY DESIRABLE
AS IT WOULD BE THERE
SIMPLY WOULDN'T BE
ENOUGH NEW POWER TO SHUT
DOWN THE COAL PLANTS.

Howard Hampton says THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD
CLOSE THE COAL PLANTS
NOW WOULD BE TO TRY AND RAMP
UP NUCLEAR BUT THE EXISTING
NUCLEAR PLANTS ARE NOT
VERY RELIABLE.
OR IMPORT A LOT OF
ELECTRICITY FROM THE
UNITED STATES BUT THE ELECTRICITY
THEY WOULD BE
IMPORTING WOULD BE MAINLY COAL
FIRED.
SO, YOU WOULD IN
EFFECT BE PAYING MORE
FOR COAL-FIRED ELECTRICITY FROM THE
UNITED STATES.

Steve says HOWEVER DWIGHT DUNCAN
WILL ENSURE THAT THE
PROVINCE HAS ENOUGH NEW
POWER BY 2007 AND INTO
THE FUTURE.

Duncan says WE HAVE TO REPLACE OR
REFURBISH ALMOST THE ENTIRE
ONTARIO’S ENTIRE
GENERATING CAPACITY BY
THE YEAR OF 2020 THAT
WOULD REPRESENT
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 35 AND
40 BILLION DOLLAR
INVESTMENT THAT WOULD BE
THE LARGEST PEACE TIME
INVESTMENT IN CANADIAN
HISTORY.
YOU KNOW WE HAVE BEGUN.

Back in the studio, Steve says OKAY.
JUST SO EVERYBODY IS
COMPLETELY SURE AND
CLEAR OF WHAT WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT; HERE IS THE
DOCUMENT.

He shows a booklet.

He continues THAT'S WHAT CAME OUT A
YEAR AGO GROWING STRONG
COMMUNITIES.
THAT'S WHAT DALTON
MCGUINTY READ FROM AT THE
BEGINNING OF THAT PACK
THAT WE JUST SAW LET'S
GO INTO THIS.
AND PAGE 3.
IT IS PRETTY CLEAR.
WE WILL SHUT DOWN
ONTARIO'S COAL-BURNING
POWER PLANTS BY 2007 AND
REPLACE THEM WITH
CLEANER SOURCES OF
ENERGY.
THERE IT IS.
NOW, SEAN MY QUESTION
IS
THE ENERGY MINISTER
DWIGHT DUNCAN HAS
BEEN GIVEN NUMEROUS
OPPORTUNITIES OVER THE PAST
YEARS TO WALK AWAY FROM
THAT PROMISE OR EASE UP
ON OR CHANGE IT OR
SOMETHING HE HAS BEEN
ASKED NUMEROUS TIMES AND
HE HAS NEVER AVEILED
HIMSELF OF THAT
OPPORTUNITY.
UNTIL NOW.
WHY NOW?

Conway says WELL, I THINK AS THE
REALITY OF THE SITUATION
DAWN ON THE NEW GOVERNMENT
AND AS THEY CONFRONT
CONTINUING CHALLENGES
SHALL I SAY ON THE
NUCLEAR SIDE, OF THE
EQUATION AND AS THEY
LOOK AT SOME HIGHLY
DESIRABLE RENEWABLE
ALTERNATIVES AND THE
TIME THEY ARE GOING TO
TAKE TO BRING ON STREAM,
I THINK THAT THEY ARE
WISELY RECOGNIZING THAT
2007 WHICH IS REALLY NOW
ONLY THE END OF 2007
WHICH IS WHAT THREE
YEARS AND THREE WEEKS
FROM NOW, MAY IN FACT NOT
BE A DATE TO WHICH THEY
CAN RETIRE ALL OF THE EXISTING
COAL
CAPACITY.

Steve asks DID THEY NOT KNOW THAT A YEAR
AGO?

Conway says THAT'S A QUESTION THAT
SOME PEOPLE MIGHT CHOOSE
TO DEBATE.
NOW BEFORE MY FRIEND
MR. BAIRD FORMER
ENERGY MINISTER IN THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT GETS TOO
HOLIER THAN THOU AND I
KNOW THAT TRAIT BECAUSE I HAVE LOTS OF IT
MYSELF AFTER ALL THIS
ENERGY SITUATION OF
THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS, THIS IS NOT EXACTLY A TRIUMPH OF SUCCESSFUL
PUBLIC POLICY.

Steve says OKAY.
NICELY PUT.
JOHN WAS THIS A REALISTIC
PROMISE IN FIRST PLACE.

John says I WILL SAY IT RIGHT OFF
THE TOP.
I TOLD YOU SO.
THE DAY HE ANNOUNCED THIS
THERE WAS NOT SINGLE
PERSON IN THE ENTIRE
PLANET WHO COULD SAY
THAT IT WOULD BE
ACHIEVEABLE.
LET'S LOOK WE HAVE FIVE
COAL-FIRED PLANTS
ONE OF THEM IS IN LAKE VIEW IN
MISSISAUGA.

Steve says THEY ARE GOING SHUT
THAT ONE DOWN.

John says IT IS NOT BIG COMMITMENT
TO MAKE BECAUSE I WILL
TELL YOU THE THING IS FALLING APART, IF IT
MAKE IT UNTIL 2005 OPG
WILL BE PERFORMING
MIRACLE.

Steve says THIS IS COMFORTING --.

John continues IT’S THE OLDEST PLANT IN
THE FLEET.
IT IS IN BAD SHAPE.
WHEN THREE UNITS AT YOU
KNOW LAKE VIEW ARE DOWN
GOOD NEWS IS ONLY ONE
MORE CAN GO DOWN.
BUT IN ALL SERIOUSNESS
THE OTHER FOUR PLANTS
AND THERE’S NO WAY THEY
WILL CLOSE THEM.
NO WAY.
IT REPRESENTS ABOUT 24 PERCENT
OF OUR ELECTRICITY THANK
GOODNESS FOR ALL OF THE
NUCLEAR UNITS WHICH WERE
BROUGHT ON STREAM.
SO IT HAS BEEN REDUCED
A LITTLE BIT.
BUT IT’S A SIGNIFICANT PART
OF OUR ELECTRICTY AND YOU CAN
LIKE IT OR NOT; WE CLOSE
THE LAMTON PLANT FOR EXAMPLE,
WE WILL SIMPLY
IMPORT ELECTRICTY FROM THE TWO
COAL FIRED PLANTS RUN
ACROSS THE RIVER SO THE AIR
WOULDN'T BE ANY LESS
EXPENSIVE. ONTARIANS
WILL LOSS THEIR JOB AND
PRICE WILL SKY ROCKET.

Steve says DAVE COOKE LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
EARLIER IN THE WEEK THE LIBERALS ANNOUNCED TEN NEW ENERGY
PROJECTS 395 MEGAWATTS OF CLEAN RENEWABLE
ENERGY THEY SAY.
THE FIVE COAL-FIRED
PLANTS THAT JOHN JUST
TALKED ABOUT PROVIDE
75 HUNDRED MEGA WATTS OF
ELECTRICTY.
SO THE QUESTION IS
ARE THE NEW FORMS THEY
ARE INTRODUCING NEW
STUFF.
BUT IS IT COMING ALONG FAST ENOUGH IN
ORDER TO REPLACE WHAT
THEY HOPE TO LOSE?

Cooke says WELL I AM NOT AS
EXPERT AS MY TWO
COLLEAGUES ON THE PANEL.
BUT, I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY IN ONTARIO HAS
BELIEVED FOR THE LONG
TIME THESE COAL FIRED
PLANTS WILL BE ABLE TO BE CLOSED ON TIME.
IT IS OBVIOUSLY A GOAL THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SUPPORT.
I THINK NOW THE QUESTION THAT
GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO
HAVE DO ANSWER IS GOING
TO BE PRIMARILY
POLITICAL.
THE FIRST PART OF THEIR
TERM THEY WERE FIGHTING
OFF PERCEPTION THAT THEY
WERE BREAKING ALL OF THEIR
PROMISES.
THEY HAVE CHANGED THAT
IN THIS FALL SESSION
THEY HAVE GOT THIS ONE
BIG ONE HANGING OUT
THERE.
THAT NO MATTER WHAT
HAPPENS THEY ARE GOING
GET HEADLINES WHEN THEY
ACTUALLY MAKE THE DECISION
AND MAKE THE ANNOUNCEMENT
THAT COAL PLANTS CAN'T
CLOSE.
AND THAT THEY BROKEN
ANOTHER PROMISE.
SO, DWIGHT'S CHALLENGE
NOW, THE ENERGY MINISTER,
IS TO PREPARE THE PUBLIC
FOR A CHANGE IN POLICY.

STEVE says DO YOU AGREE
WITH THAT?

Conway says TO CERTAIN DEGREE AND
I WOULD ADD THIS.
THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT
MINIMIZE PARTICULARLY
DALTON MCGUINTY’S DEEPLY
PERSONALLY-FELT DESIRE
TO MOVE AWAY FROM COAL
AS QUICKLY AND AS
COMPLETELY AS POSSIBLE.

STEVE says IS THAT TRUE.
YOU KNOW WHAT?
HE WOULD STILL HAVE WON THE ELECTION IF HE HAD SAID
2008.

Conway continues MY POINT IS THIS THAT
THE GOVERNMENT THE
DALTON MCGUINTY
GOVERNMENT REALLY DOES
WANT A MOVE TO A NEW
GENERATION OF RENEWABLE
CLEANER POWER.
BUT HAVING SAID THAT,
AND I WANT TO AGREE WITH
JOHN BAIRD I THINK
ANYBODY WHO HAS BEEN
AROUND THIS FILE
REALIZES THAT THERE IS
OFTEN TOO MUCH THEOLOGY
AND NOT ENOUGH PRACTICAL
UNDERSTANDING OF THE
REALITIES OF RUNNING
THIS VERY COMPLICATED
SYSTEM.

Steve says LET ME ASK JOHN ABOUT
THAT.
COULD YOU PUT BETTER
SCRUBBERS ON THE EXISTING
FACILITIES KEEP THEM
OPEN LONGER AND SAY,
WITH A GOOD DEGREE OF
CREDIBILITY THAT YOU
HAVE MADE THE AIR CLEANER
AS A RESULT?

John says IT WOULD BE
UNQUESTIONABLY BROKEN
PROMISE.
THEY PROMISED TO CLOSE THE
PLANTS.
THEY MADE THAT PROMISE
AND STEVE I WANT TO GO
RIGHT OUT ON HIM AND SAY
THEY KNEW THEY COULDN'T
KEEP AND WOULDN'T KEEP
THE DAY THEY MADE IT.
THAT IS BLACK AND WHITE.
I WILL TELL YOU WHAT WE
SPENT A QUARTER OF MILLION
DOLLARS PUTTING SCRUBBERS
ON
LAMPTON.
TO REDUCE NOCS AND SOCS.
YOU WILL NOT REDUCE
CO 2S THAT'S REALITY.
THAT'S NITROOXIDE AND SULFURDIOXIDE,
OBVIOUSLY HARMFUL YOU
KNOW HARMFUL EMISSIONS
THAT HAVE EFFECTS ON HUMAN
HEALTH.
SMOG AND SO FORTH.
THE REALITY WHEN IT
COMES TO CO2 IN CHINA
TODAY THEY ARE BUILDING A
NEW COAL FIRED PLANT
EVERY FIVE WEEKS.
THERE IS 162 COAL FIRED
PLANTS WITHIN OUR AIR
SHED IN THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO NOW WE MUST BE
REALISTIC. THERE’S SIMPLY NOT THE
PIPELINE CAPACITY FOR NATURAL GAS
YOU COULD JUST FLICK A
SWITCH AND HAVE IT BE
NATURAL GAS FIRED PLANT
THERE IS NOT ENOUGH
NATURAL GAS IN THE
PIPELINE.

Cooke says THEN YOU WOULD NEVER
MAKE ANY EFFORT TO CLOSE
ANY OF THE PLANTS.
AND THEN SURELY THE GOAL
IS THERE.
THE TIME LINE IS
OBVIOUSLY NOT DOES NOT
LOOK LIKE IT IS GOING TO
BE ACHIEVEABLE SO NOW,
THE STRATEGY FOR THE
GOVERNMENT HAS TO BE TO
COMMUNICATE TO THE
PEOPLE OF THE PROVINCE
WHAT THE STRATEGY IS
WHAT THE NEW TIME LINES
ARE GOING TO BE AND TO
TRY TO GET PEOPLE ON
BOARD.

John says TEN YEARS FROM NOW
THOSE PLANTS ARE -- AT
LEAST ONE IF NOT ALL
FOUR WILL BE OPENED.

Conway says JOHN MAY BE PARTIALLY
RIGHT. BUT AGAIN,
PUBLIC OUT THERE
PARTICULARLY THE PUBLIC
IN SOUTHERN ONTARIO I
THINK SUPPORTS ANY PLAN
THAT GOVERNMENT CAN
PRODUCE TO REMOVE AS
MUCH OF THE AIRBORNE
CONTAMINANTS THAT ARE
PRODUCED BY CERTAIN
KINDS OF POWER
PRODUCTION.

Steve says BUT DO THEY SUPPORT PARTIES MAKING
PROMISES DURING ELECTION TIME?

He answers MY SENSE THAT I HAVE
BEEN AROUND POLITICS
A LONG TIME AND YOU KNOW
I REMEMBER YOU KNOW YOU
HAVE HEARD ME ON THIS
BEFORE WHETHER PIERRE
TRUDEAU AND BILL
DAVIS ON SEPARATE SCHOOLS, A VARIETY OF
OTHER PROMISES, EVEN MY FRIEND
MR. BAIRD HERE THE
PROMISES THAT EAVES
HARRIS THE GOVERNMENT
MADE AROUND WHAT WAS
ACTUALLY HAPPENING WITH
PICKERING REFURBISHMENT
TURNED TO BE DECIDEDLY
LESS THAN ADVERTISED.
AND PART I THINK BECAUSE
IT WAS VERY COMPLICATED.
I REPEAT, WE ARE IN A
PROBLEM IN ONTARIO TODAY
ON THE GENERATION SIDE
OF THE ELECTRICTY
EQUATION BECAUSE WE MADE
A BIG BET ON NUCLEAR AND
NOBODY SUPPORTED MORE
THAN I DID, THAT IT TURNED OUT TO BE TODAY INFINETLY
MORE COMPLICATED AND
MORE COSTLY THAN ANYBODY
IMAGINED.
AND MY ADVICE TO THIS
GOVERNMENT AND TO THIS
LEGISLATURE IS BE VERY
CAREFUL AND THOUGHTFUL
AND BALANCED AS YOU CAN
BE LOOKING AT THE
CHALLENGE BEFORE YOU.
THERE IS AN
ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARD
YOU HAVE GOT TO MEET BUT
THE PEOPLE AND BUSINESS
IN ONTARIO EXPECT THAT
YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP
LIGHTS ON WITH A
AFFORDABLE RELIABLE
POWER.

Steve says LAST WORD TO JOHN
BAIRD ON THIS FILE.
I THINK THIS IS WHAT MAKES
PEOPLE CYNICAL ABOUT
POLITICANS.
THEY LOVE THE IDEA THAT
THIS COULD HAPPEN.
THEY WERE TOLD THEY
COULD HAVE IT ALL AND
TURN THE LIGHTS ON AND
GO TO WORK AND BECAUSE
ELECTRICITY WOULD BE
AVAILABLE AND GET RID OF
THE COAL-FIRED PLANTS
THEY KNEW AT THE TIME IT
COULD NOT HAPPEN AND
LIBERALS ARE TRYING TO
BEGIN TO DANCE AROUND THE
PROMISE AND NOW TALKING
ABOUT THESE PLANTS BEING
ONLY FOR PEAKING PURPOSES
THEY WILL BE CLOSED
EVERY NIGHT AT 8 AND OPENED EVERY MORNING AT 6.
THAT'S AN UNQUALIFIED
BROKEN PROMISE.

Steve says JOHN BAIRD THANK YOU
FOR PINCHING HITTING.

Conway says something.

Steve interrupts him and says THAT'S ANOTHER STORY
FOR ANOTHER SHOW.
BROTHER CONWAY.
THANK YOU SEAN
CONWAY STAND BY ONE MORE
THING TO GO HERE ALMOST
6 WEEKS AGO THE LIBERALS
UNVEILED THEIR NEW GREEN
BELT STRATEGY.
DESIGNED TO PROTECT
ENVIRONMENTALLY
SENSITIVE LAND IN THE
GOLDEN HORSESHOE.
SINCE THEN THERE HAVE
BEEN HOWLS OF
COMPLAINTS AS TO WHAT'S
INCLUDED AND MORE
SIGNIFICANTLY.
WHAT'S NOT.
OUR QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU
CHIEF SUSANNA KELLEY AND CBC’S RADIO ROBERT FISHER
DIVE INTO THIS AND MORE ON THIS
WEEK EDITION OF IT BACK
ROOM 411.

(music plays)
A clip captioned "Backroom 411" shows very fast clips of Ernie Eaves and other politicians giving speeches and press conferences. Then, Susanna Kelley and Robert Fisher walk down a long hallway and past a glass-paned door.

The clip ends, and Susanna and Robert sit in the studio with Steve.

Steve says
ROBERT AND SUSAN
WELCOME BACK FOR ANOTHER
WEEK.
SUSANNA LET'S START WITH GREEN
BELT WHAT ARE YOU
HEARING ABOUT THE STATE
OF PLAY ON ISSUE THAT
RIGHT NOW?

The caption below Susanna reads "Susanna Kelley. Queen’s Park Bureau Chief."
Susanna is in her forties, with short blond hair in a
Bob and bangs. She’s wearing a red and black tailored suit.

She says WELL I THINK THAT THERE
IS LOT OF PEOPLE WORRIED
ABOUT THE GREEN BELT
RIGHT NOW AND WHETHER
THE WHEELS ARE COMING
OFF THE BUS HERE.
WELL, YOU KNOW THE
LIBERALS BROUGHT IN THIS
GREEN BELT FOR THE TO
PROTECT ENVIRONMENTALLY
SENSITIVE LANDS IN THE
GTA.
AND THERE HAS BEEN A LOT
OF SPECULATION ABOUT HOW
THEY CAME TO FIGURE OUT
EXTERNAL BOUNDARIES
WHETHER THERE WAS REALLY
ANY REAL SCIENCE USED ON
THAT.

Steve says MAYBE MORE POLITICS
THAN SCIENCE.

Susanna continues YES AS MY FRIEND ROBERT
CALLED POLITICAL SCIENCE
LAST WEEK.
AND THIS WEEK THE
CONSERVATIVES FORCED THE
GOVERNMENT TO DELAY
PASSAGE OF THE BILL
UNTIL NEXT MARCH.

Steve says THEY WANTED SOME MORE
COMMITTEE HEARING.

She nods and says THEY WANT SOME MORE
COMMITTEE HEARING AND
CONSULTATION ON THIS
BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE
ARE UPSET ABOUT IT.
I AM TOLD BY THE WAY
THIS WAS A DEAL DONE
BETWEEN THE HOUSE
LEADERS AND MR. GARETSON WAS FURIOUS ABOUT
IT.

Steve asks HE WAS NOT IN ON IT?

She says I DON'T THINK SO.
HE SAID I DON'T BELIEVE
I APPROVED OF IT.
HE DIDN'T WANT IT.
OH, IT IS BEING HELD
UP.
AND I THINK AS I SAID
PART OF PROBLEM IS THE
BOUNDARIES AND IT HAS A
LOT TO DO WITH SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT A MONTH AGO
IN THE BOUNDARIES IF WE
WANT TAKE LOOK SOME MAPS
HERE.

Steve says LET'S BRING MAP
NUMBER ONE HERE.

A map appears with red and green areas. The red areas are closer to the lake and the green broader area surrounds it.

Susanna says AS YOU SEE GREEN BELT
GREEN AND TAN AREA
ACROSS THE TOP.
AND THE -- THIS RED AREA
IN IS HERE THE BIG BONE
OF CONTENTION THIS IS
SOME VERY GOOD FARM LAND
THAT WAS NOT FROZEN.
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE
WOULD LIKE IT ADDED IN
THE GRAY AREA AS THE
URBAN AREA THAT'S
TORONTO BOUNDARIES.
IT WOULD LOOK AT THIS
SECOND MAP HERE.
HERE IS THE ELECTION
PLATFORM.

A second map appears. The areas of Hamilton, Harlton, Peel, Toronto, York and Durham appear marked by green boundaries.

She continues MAP THAT WAS IN THE
LIBERALS ELECTION
PLATFORM.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT,
THE BOUNDARIES OF THEIR
PROPOSED GREEN BELT
ABOVE THAT BY THE WAY IN
THE ACTUAL BOOK IT SAYS,
GOLDEN HORSESHOE GREEN
BELT THAT MAP SHOWS THAT
GREEN BELT WOULD GO ALL
OF THE WAY DOWN TO LAKE.
WELL HOW COME THOSE
RED AREAS ARE NOT IN
INCLUDED THERE.

Steve says SO THE BOTTOM ONE WAS
CAMPAIGN DOCUMENTS WHICH
CLEARLY SHOWS THAT
EVERYTHING IN THE GTA
AND PARTS OF HAMILTON
WOULD BE COVERED AND
OBVIOUSLY THE CITY OF
TORONTO ITSELF.
THE MAP ON TOP WHICH IS WHAT
THEY HAVE EVENTUALLY
CAME TO DOES NOT INCLUDE
ALL THAT STUFF.

She says THEY HAVE A LITTLE
BIT OF WIGGLE ROOM
BECAUSE, IN THE TEXT OF
THE DOCUMENT THE
CAMPAIGN DOCUMENT IT
SAID THAT THEY PROTECT
600 THOUSAND ACRES.
THEY ACTUALLY PROTECTED
OVER -- ACTUALLY
PROTECTED A MILLION SO
THEY EXCEEDED THEIR
PROMISE IN THAT WAY.
BUT I THINK THAT THERE’S
GOING TO BE AN ARGUMENT
MADE THAT THAT CAMPAIGN
DOCUMENT SHOWS THAT
THEY COULD BE ADDING IN
THAT RED PART AND MAYBE
EVEN MORE. MISTER
GARRETTSON DID SAY THIS
WEEK THEY MAY ADD IN
MORE.

Steve says ROBERT YOU HAVE BEEN OUT IN THE COMMUNITY. WE
KNOW IN CALEDON
THERE WAS A BIG MEETING
WHAT'S THE REACTION.

Robert says I WAS GOING SAY WHEN I
FIRST READ THIS LEFT THERE, THERE COULD BE
NUMBER OF LIBERAL
RIDINGS LEFT AFTER THE
NEXT ELECTION IN THE
GREEN BELT AREA.

Steve says ZINC, ZINC.

Robert says THIS IS VERY, VERY HOT
ISSUE, THE FEDERATION OF
AGRICULTURAL APPLAUDING
GOVERNMENT THIS WEEK FOR
EXTENDING THE
CONSULTATION PERIOD BUT
YOU ONLY EXTEND THE CONSULTATION PERIOD
WHEN YOU ARE IN
TROUBLE AND YOU CAN'T FIND A
WAY OUT OF IT.
AND LIKE SO MANY THINGS
WITH THIS GOVERNMENT
THEY GET INTO SOMETHING
BUT NO EXIT STRATEGY OH,
THAT'S WHY SUSAN IS
ACTUALLY RIGHT WHEELS
ARE COMING OFF.
IN RURAL ONTARIO
WHERE THE LIBERALS
A LOT OF RIDINGS
AND WANT LOT MORE NEXT
ELECTION.
A LOT OF ANGST THERE ARE A LOT OF FARMERS SAYING,
YOU KNOW WHAT THEY’RE NOT LISTENING TO ME OR
TAKING MY CAN CONCERNS
INTO ACCOUNT.
AND THAT IS BECOMING A
MAJOR POLITICAL PROBLEM
FOR THE DALTON MCGUINTY
LIBERALS.

Susanna says YOU KNOW LEGAL SAD THING
ABOUT IT WE IS,
EVERYBODY IS FIGHTING.
THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE
UPSET DEVELOPERS ARE
UPSET.
MUNICIPALITIES ARE UPSET.
AND.

Steve says THESE WERE THREE
STAKE HOLDERS WHO APPARENTLY HAD
COME TO A GOOD
AGREEMENT.

She says THERE WAS A
PAIN-STAKINGLY BUILT
CONCENSUS.
OUT THERE.
THAT WAS DONE UNDER THE
TORRIES IN THEIR SMART
GROWTH PLAN.
AND THE LIBERALS WHAT
THEY DID WHEN THEY CAME
IN WAS INSTEAD OF DOING THE WHOLE
SMART
GROWTH THING WHICH WAS
GOING TO BE PLAN FOR
TRANSPORTATION AND
COORDINATING
TRANSPORTATION AND
ENVIRONMENTALLY
SENSITIVE LANDS,
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,
AND INSTEAD OF DOING
THAT ALL IN ONE PIECE
THEY PANICKED. REMEMBER WHEN
THEY CAME IN AND THEY
DID THE BIG CLIMB DOWN
ON THE OAK RIDGES MARINE
THOSE 6 THOUSAND HOMES THEY
SAID THEY WOULD STOP AND
THEY DIDN'T.
THEY BROKE THE PROMISE
THEY PANICKED WHEN THAT
HAPPENED.
THEY THROUGH THE GREEN
BELT OUT.
VERY QUICKLY.
BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO
BE SEEN AS GREEN.
THEY TOOK IT OUT OF THE
WHOLE SMART GROWTH THING
PIECES ARE SORT OF
FLYING ALL OVER.
MINISTER OF
TRANSPORTATION IS GOING
TO DO TRANSPORTATION
POLICY.
MINISTRY OF NATURAL
RESOURCES IS GOING TO DO
SOMETHING CALLED GREEN
SPACE I HERE WHICH PROTECTING THE NATURAL HERITAGE
SYSTEM ALL OVER THE PROVINCE.
YOU KNOW
IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE
BROUGHT TOGETHER UNDER
THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT
PLAN.
BUT YOU KNOW WHEN YOU --
THEY WRECKED CONCENSUS.

Steve says LET ME ASK ROBERT ABOUT THE
POLITICS OF THIS
POLITICAL SCIENCE HOW
INFLUENTIAL DO YOU
SUPPOSE LIBERAL MPPS CAN
BE WHO REPRESENT RURAL
RIDINGS IN HAVING THIS
THING TRANSFORMED INTO A
WINNER AT THE END OF THE
DAY WHERE RIGHT NOW IT
LOOKS LIKE IT IS IN A
BIT OF TROUBLE?

Robert says THAT'S VERY GOOD
QUESTION.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Robert Fisher. Provincial Affairs Specialist."
Robert is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair.
He’s wearing a dark suit, blue shirt, and striped red and black tie.

He says I THINK THERE IS A LOT
OF NERVOUSNESS IN
LIBERAL CAUCUS ABOUT
THAT VERY THING.
I AM BRINGING STUFF FROM
MY RIDING.
THIS NOT SELLING OUT
THERE I HAVE GOT FARMERS
IN MY CONSTITUENCY OFFICE BITCHING AND
COMPLAINING.
HOW DO WE GET OUT THIS
AND THEY ARE NOT GETTING
KIND OF FEEDBACK THEY
WANT.
AND EVEN YOU KNOW IN THE
SEARCH FOR A CANDIDATE NOW
TO RUN AGAINST JOHN
TORRY BECAUSE ERNIE
EAVES WILL BE RESIGNING
IN ABOUT A WEEK'S TIME
AND MOVING ON TO
SOMETHING ELSE GOODNESS
KNOWS WHAT THE LIBERALS
CAN'T FIND THEMSELF
CANDIDATE.
THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH A
LIST AND WORKING ON B
LIST AND LOOKING
WILLINGTON GRAY IN THE ASSUMPTION
OF MR. TORRY WILL RUN
THERE. THEY CAN'T FIND
A-LIST CANDIDATES
BECAUSE THEY´RE SAYING THE GREEN
BELT WILL KILL THE LIBERALS
IN THE BY ELECTION.

Steve says FOR THOSE THAT DIDN'T kNOw DUFFORD PEEL IS A MOSTLY RURAL
RIDING

Robert says AND IF YOU MIX
GREEN BELT STUFF AND
JUST YOU KNOW I HAVE
HEARD PEOPLE SAY TO ME
IT WOULD SUICIDAL TO
RUN AS LIBERAL AGAINST
TORRY OR ANYBODY IN THAT
RIDING.

Susanna says I MEAN IN ANOTHER RIDING,
STEVE, ANOTHER MEMBER
LIBERAL MEMBER MIGHT BE
IN TROUBLE, WAYNE ARTHUR
IS IN PICKERING.
WHO OPPOSED HIS OWN PARTY
WHEN THE LIBERALS DID
PUT THAT CONTROVERSIAL
AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE
INTO THE GREEN BELT.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT
THERE IS BEING A LAWSUIT
LAUNCHED ON THIS.

Steve asks SUING WHOM?

She answers WELL,
THE LAWYER FOR A GROUP
OF LAND OWNERS, THAT
INCLUDES DEVELOPERS
JERRY COUGHLIN AND DICK
ASPERS FAMILY AS WELL
AS SOME FARMERS HAS --
YOU KNOW LAUNCHING
LAWSUIT.
THAT ALLEGES THESE PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF
THE GOVERNMENT STUDY.
OUT THERE.
WHERE THEY ARE DECIDING
WHAT IS IN AND WHAT'S
OUT WHAT WILL BE
PROTECTED AND WHAT WILL
BE DEVELOPED SO I
UNDERSTAND A COURT DATE
HAS BEEN SET ON THAT.
SO LIBERALS COULD BE IN
TROUBLE ALL OVER THE
PLACE.

Steve says JUST IN OUR LAST 30
SECONDS WE TALKED ABOUT
EAVES NEXT WEEK DECIDING THAT
TIME IS TIME.
WHAT’S HE GOING DO NOW?
ANY IDEA?

Robert says THAT'S VERY GOOD QUESTION.
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
SHOPPING AROUND FOR
MR. EAVES TRYING TO SORT
OF PART WATER.
SHALL WE SAY TO ALLOW HIM
EXIT QUEENS PARK IT HAS
BEEN TOUGH.
YOU KNOW HE LEAVES AS IN
THE MINDS OF MANY PEOPLE
AS A LOSER.

AND VERY TOUGH TO KIND
OF SITUATE YOURSELF IN
THAT SITUATION SO, HE’S
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING
PRIVATE SECTOR PEOPLE
LOOKING HELP FOR HIM.
AND BUT HE WILL LEAVE
AND QUITE FRANKLY
MANY PEOPLE IN TORRY CAUCUS
SAY IT IS ABOUT TIME HE
LEFT.
BECAUSE WE DESPERATELY
NEED JOHN TORRY IN THE
HOUSE AS OUR LEADER.
ROBERT FISHER, SUSANNA KELLEY THANK YOU
FOR THE 41 FROM THE BACK
ROOMS AND SEE YOU IN THE
NEW YEAR.

They answer THANK YOU.

Steve says THAT'S OUR PROGRAM
FOR THIS WEEK.
I AM STEVE PAIKIN.
UNTIL NEXT WEEKEND.
THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2002, The Ontario Educational
Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2002, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Education and Hydro