Transcript: John Tory | Mar 14, 2004

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON
"FOURTH READING."

In a snippet of a conference, Frank Klees addresses the press.

He says THERE BE GOOD FOR THE
GROWTH THE PARTY.

John Tory appears on screen getting off a bus and greeting people in the streets.

Steve continues
THE ULTIMATE TORY?
WHAT IT WOULD MEAN TO
ONTARIO POLITICS.

Steve sits in the studio. He’s in his early forties. He has short curly dark hair and is clean-shaven. He wears a dark brown suit and a black polo shirt.

Steve says HI EVERYBODY I AM
STEVE PAIKIN. WELCOME TO
"FOURTH READING."
REPORTS THAT JOHN TORY
POISED TO TAKE A RUN OF THE
LEADERSHIP HAVE TONGUES
WAGGING THIS WEEK.

A picture of Tory appears on screen.

Steve continues
TORY’S BEING OUT AS MAN TO
CAN PUT ONTARIO
CONSERVATIVES ON MORE
CENTRAL PATHWAY ANY
CONSERVATIVE POLL OF JIM
FLAHERTY.
AND AS THE MAN TO CAN SWEEP
CONSERVATIVE CRONIES BUT
MOST IMPORTANT AS THE MAN TO
CAN RECEIPT PARTY BACK TO
POWER.
FROM ITS CURRENT STINT ON
THE OPPOSITION BENCHES THOSE
WHO WOULD RUN AGAINST HIM
SAY COME ON IN.

A series of clips play as Steve introduces today’s episode. A caption on screen reads "Frank Klees, MPP. PC, Oak Ridges." He’s in his mid-forties, has short dark hair, clean-shaven, and wears a dark suit, striped shirt and contrasting red tie.

Frank says I AM CONFIDENT THAT
MISTER TORY WILL CERTAINLY ADD
SOME DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE
TO THE RACE.
WE WELCOME THAT.
IT WILL BE GOOD FOR THE
GROWTH OF THE PARTY.
AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO
DO AS A PARTY OVER NEXT
THREE AND HALF YEARS TO GET
READY TO REPLACE THIS
GOVERNMENT AND THE MORE THE
MERY.
WE WELCOME HIS CONTRIBUTION.

At a new press conference, Dalton McGuinty talks to the press.

The Journalist asks
PREMIER ARE YOU WORE READ
ABOUT JOHN TORY ENTERING
THE CONSERVATIVE LOAD LEAD
RACE?
I MEAN HE IS SOMEONE WHO CAN
CLEAN YOUR CLOCK IN LOT OF
URBAN AREAS.

Dalton says I WELCOME ANYBODY INTO
THE RACE AND ANYONE WHO
CAST GOT SIN YEAR DESTIRE
COMMIT THEMSELVES TO PUBLIC SERVICE.

The clips end. Steve appears back in the studio.

Steve says OKAY.
JUST WHAT WOULD JOHN TORY
ENTRY INTO THIS TO SUCCEED
WOULD MEAN AND WHY.
HERE TO HELP US ANSWER THAT
QUESTION ARE "FOURTH
READING" POLITICAL ANALYST.
JANET ECKER.
DAVE COOK.
AND SEAN CONWAY.
FORMER LIBERAL CABINET
MINISTER.
JIM FLAIR, COMMON SENSE
REVOLUTION AND JOHN TORY
MORE OF THE OLD-FASHIONED
TORY MOLD AS WE GET A SENSE
ABOUT WHO COULD COMMAND
GREATER INTERESTS AMONG
PARTY MEMBERS WE NEED TO
KNOW WHERE PARTY MEMBERS
ARE.
WHERE DO YOU THINK EXISTING
MEMBER SH OF THE ONTARIO
CONSERVATIVE PARTY IS THESE
DAYS IN REGARDS TO THAT
DEBATE.

The caption changes to "Janet Ecker. Former PC Cabinet Minister." She’s in her forties. She has short brown hair and wears glasses, a white shirt with a patterned collar and a black blazer.

Janet says IT IS ALWAYS VERY TOUGH
QUESTION WHERE THEIR HEADS
ARE AT RIGHT NOW I THINK
JOHN COMING INTO RACE IF HE
DOES SO WILL CERTAINLY
PROVIDE MUCH MORE SPARK AND
INTEREST IN THE RACE THAN
WHAT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
PREVIOUSLY.
I THINK JOHN BRINGS TO THE
RACE A PROVEN ABILITY TO
RAEUS MONEY WHICH CERTAINLY
THAT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH FOR
THE PARTY WITH THE DEBT THEY
ARE CAIS CARRYING HE BRINGS
FRESH FACE BECAUSE HE HAS
NOT BEEN AROUND SCENE FOR A
WHILE AND SPELL BRINGS THE
ABILITY TO PERHAPS
STRENGTHEN THE PARTY IN
URBAN AREAS.
AND I THINK THAT YOU KNOW SO
THAT WILL LIVEN UP THE RACE.

Steve says HERE IS WHAT
WARREN WHO IS KNOWN TO MANY
TALKED ABOUT JOHN TORY
GOING FROM WHATEVER 3-4 PERCENT IN
THE MAYOR'S AS TO 35 PERCENT ELECT
DAY.
WARREN SAID THAT HAPPENED
BECAUSE JOHN TORRY
PROGRESSIVE DECENT SENSIBLE
GUY PROGRESSIVE DESCENT
SENSIBLE GUYS ARE THIN ON
GROUND IN ONTARIO PC CAUCUS
THESE DAYS.
FAIR COMMENT?

The caption changes to "Sean Conway. Former Liberal Cabinet Minister." He’s in his fifties. He has short dark brown hair and is clean-shaven. He wears glasses, a dark suit, pale light blue shirt and contrasting tie.

Sean says WELL I HAVE KNOWN JOHN
TORY QUITE.

Steve says YOU ARE NOT
ANSWERING MY QUESTION.
FAIR COMMENT?

Sean giggles and says
YOU ARE ASKING ME TO
COMMENT ON FAIRNESS OF
WARREN'S OBSERVATION I WOULD
AYES TO THIS EXTENT I HAVE
KNOWN JOHN A LONG TIME HE IS
VERY DECENT THOUGHTFUL
PROGRESSIVE FELLOW.
HE HAS LOTS OF GOOD
POLITICAL EXPERIENCE MOST OF
PRIOR TO TORONTO MAYOR RACE
IN BACK ROOMS AND I THINK
JANET HAS SUMMARISED THE
SITUATION AND I THINK THE
REAL QUESTION FOR ON TO
TORY AND THE PARTY ARE THEY
APPROPRIATE MATCH BECAUSE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY TODAY IN
ONTARIO I THINK IS -- HAS
BEEN IN RECENT YEARS MUCH
MORE RIGHT OF CENTRE THAN
THE BILL DAVIS PARTY IN
WHICH JOHN TORY WAS NEWER
TURED AND WHICH HE PLAYED AN
IMPORTANT ROLE 20 YEARS AGO.

Steve says THAT HE WAS PRETTY
CLOSE TO AN ANSWER.
PRETTY CLOSE.
WELL THIS IS -- I MEAN SEAN
DOES ASK THE OBVIOUS
QUESTION ARE THEY GOOD MATCH
FOR EACH OTHER.
SOME WOULD SUGGEST AND
WARREN ALTHOUGH WELL-KNOWN
IS ONE OF THOSE WHO SAYS
THAT TORY PARTY TODAY
FILLED WITH DINOSAURS AND
THEREFORE IT IS BAD MATCH.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caption changes to "Dave Cooke. Former NDP Cabinet Minister." He’s in his mid-forties. He has short dark hair and is clean-shaven. He wears a pale grey shirt under a light grey suit.

Dave says WELL I THINK IT WILL
BE -- WELL IT WILL
INTERESTING INTRODUCE SEE
BECAUSE THE PARTY WILL NOW
MAKE DECISION THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY WILL MAKE
A DECISION WHETHER THEY ARE
GOING TO STAY IN THE MIKE
HARRIS MOLD OR WHETHER THEY
ARE GOING TO AND I WOULD SAY
BE MORE PRAGMATIC AND WANT
TO MOVE TO TRY TO GET BAG
BACK INTO POWER WHICH I
THINK JOHN TORY WOULD OFFER
REAL THREAT TO THE CURRENT
GOVERNMENT AND EVEN POSE
SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS FOR
THE NDP.
IT IS A QUESTION OF WHETHER HE
COULD SURVIVE IN THAT
CAUCUS.
BECAUSE THE CAUCUS WILL
BE -- IS MUCH MORE
CONSERVATIVE THAN HE IS.

Steve says MORE CONSERVATIVE AND
MORE RURAL, TOO?

Dave continues YES.
BUT I MEAN I WOULD ARGUE
THAT ANY PARTY THAT WANTS TO
BE SUCCESSFUL IN ONTARIO
FROM THIS POINT FORWARD HAS TO
URBANED AND HAS TO
UNDERSTAND THOSE ISSUES AND
BE ON THE GROSSIVE SIDE.

Steve says
JIM HAS BEEN RUNNING FOR
THIS JOB WELL HE RAN FOR IT
LAST TIME SO OBVIOUSLY FOR
FEW YEARS NOW. CAN
SOMEBODY THIS LATE IN THE
GAME BECOME PE TESTIFY?

Janet says WELL, THERE IS NO
QUESTION JIM HAS BEEN
CONSIDERED THE FRONT RUNNER
WHICH IS WHY JOHN GETTING IN
THE RACE I THINK PROVIDES
SOME EXCITEMENT BECAUSE JOHN
PROBABLY ONE OF THE FEW
PEOPLE WHO COULD MOUNT THE
CHALLENGE.
I MEAN HE IS GOING TO HAVE
SOME CHALLENGES HIMSELF
BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY HAS NOT
BEEN ON THE PROVINCIAL SCENE
FOR A WHILE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE PARTY
YOU KNOW DON'T KNOW HIM.
OR REMEMBER HIM AS ONE OF
THE SORT OF BACK ROOM GUYS
FROM THE DAVIS ERA.

Steve says IS THAT HELP OR
HINDRANCE?

Janet continues IT DEPENDS.
ONE OF THE POINT WE SHOULD
MAKE IS THAT PROVINCIAL
PARTY HAS ALWAYS HAD A LEFT
AND RIGHT AND EVERYTHING IN
BETWEEN.
AND.

Dave says LEFT AND RIGHT.

Janet continues
LEFT AND RIGHT AND IN
EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN.
AND YOU GO BACK TO EVEN THE
DAVIS CABINET AND YOU HAD
PEOPLE LIKE DOCTOR ROBERT WHO
WERE CONSIDERED VERY, VERY
PROGRESSIVE.
AND YOU HAD PEOPLE LIKE
GORDON WALKER MORE WERE
CONSIDERED VERY, VERY SMALL
SEA CONSERVATIVE.
WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD THAT
RANGE WITHIN THE PARTY AND I
THINK FOR BOTH JIM AND JOHN
NOW THERE BE AN OPPORTUNITY
IN LEADERSHIP IF THEY ARE
BOTH THERE TO OPEN UP THE
PARTY BRING IN NEW MEMBERS
REFRESH THAT'S WHAT
LEADERSHIP IS BALL AND AT
THE END DAY OF THE WE WILL
SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

Dave says
IN OLD DAYS GORDON
WALKER WOULD COME IN AND
SORT OF WELL, HE WILL BE IN
CABINET AND HE WILL SATISFY
THAT WING PARTY BUT
DOMINATING WING OF THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY WAS MID
OF THE ROAD.
RED TORRY.
LED BY -- IN FACT I MEAN IF
YOU LOOK AT THE 70S AND TIME
HE WAS IN THE CONSERVATIVE
PARTY REALLY WAS THE LIBERAL
PARTY OF ONTARIO.

Steve says AND DESPISED BY
COMMON SENSE REVOLUTION THIS
IS PART --.

Sean says I THINK THAT'S GOOD
POINT.
I WOULD ADD SLIGHT OF NUANCE
TO WHAT YOU FOLKS WERE
SAYING A MOMENT AGO AND THAT
JOHN TORY RELATIONSHIP WITH
I THINK URBAN ONTARIO AND
CERTAINLY URBAN TORONTO I
SUSPECT WILL BE QUITE GOOD
AND THE MAYORTY MADE THIS
VERY CLEAR.
IT HAS CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY
IN LAST 20 YEARS.
IN THAT I WOULD ARGUE IT IS
NOW PRINCIPALLY A SUBURB
CULTURE AND I THINK THE
GREAT POLITICAL SUCCESS OF
MIKE HARRIS WAS RECOGNIZING
AND UNDERSTANDING THAT IN
YOU REMEMBER IN 1995 AND 99,
IN THAT SO-CALLED 905 BELT
WHICH IS FASTEST GROWING
BELT IN THE PROVINCE.
THE AREA THAT IS BIG ARCH
FROM ACROSS IS BARRIE TO
HAMILTON.
MAKE HARRIS WON EVERY SEAT I
THINK IN THAT ZONE IN TWO LAST
STRAIGHT ELECTIONS. THE QUESTION
FOR ME WOULD BE HOW WILL
JOHN TORY THE VERY PROGRESSIVE
DOWNTOWN TORY BUT
IT WILL BE SAID HOW WILL HE
CONNECT WITH THAT VOTER IN
AREAS LIKE PICK PERING AND
JANET OF COURSE KNOWS THAT
PRETTY WELL.

Steve says
LET'S ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

Janet says I THINK ACTUALLY BOTH
JOHN AND JIM HAVE
INTERESTING POE SENSE HALL
IN 905 AREA AND I WOULD BE
QUITE CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT
WILL HAPPEN THAT END DAY OF
THE ON THIS.
JOHN, I AM TOLD, HAS BEEN
DOING A LITTLE BIT OF
TRAVELING AROUND THE
PROVINCE SPECIFICS IS
NOMINATION MEETINGS AND
TESTING WATERS OUT THERE IN
THE MORE RURAL AREAS TO SEE.
AND IF HE HAS THE ABILITY TO
DO FOR THE PROVINCE WHAT HE
DID FOR THE CITY, WHERE HE
WAS SEEING BAY STREET ROGERS
GUY AND HE WAS ABLE TO CARVE
OUT IDENTITY FOR HIMSELF
WHERE PEOPLE WENT OH, THEY
GOT TO KNOW HIM AND HE WENT
FROM THE BOTTOM TO ALMOST
THE TOP, BUT THE OTHER
INTERESTING COMPARISON IS
GOING TO BE AS YOU LOOK AND
COMPARE THE TWO OF THEM
AGAINST DALTON MCGUINTY ONE
OF THE REASONS THAT HARRIS
WON WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS
SUCH DISSATISFACTION WITH
RAY AND ABOUT WHAT THAT
GOVERNMENT WAS DOING.
MIKE CAME -- WAS VERY VERY
CRISP VERY BLACK VERY WHITE.
VERY FOCUSED AND PEOPLE WENT
OH, WE LIKE THAT THAT'S
SOMETHING JIM WILL BE ABLE
TO DO IF HIS PAST BEHAVIOR
IS ANY JUDGE OF FUTURE
BEHAVIOR SO IT COULD BE
REALLY INTERESTING RACE.

Steve says
WHO DO YOU THINK DALTON
MCGUINTY MORE WORRIED ABOUT?

Janet says
I THINK THEY WOULD LIKE TO
SEE JIM THERE IF THEY CAN
PORTRAY AS RIGHT LEFT KIND
OF A THING.
BUT, I DON'T THINK POLITICS
IS EVER THAT SIMPLE.
AND I THINK JOHN BOTH JOHN
AND JIM COULD BE QUITE AN
INTERESTING CHALLENGE FOR
DALTON MCGUINTY THREE OR
FOUR YEARS FROM NOW THE WAY
THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT IS
GOING.

Steve says OKAY.

Sean says I THINK DELEGATE
JANET ECKER WILL HAVE TOUGH
DECISION.

Steve says SHALL WE ASK HER
WHO SHE IS SUPPORTING?

Dave says WE KNOW WE INVOLVEMENT.

Steve says WHO IS SHE
SUPPORTING.

Dave says SHE IS A RED TORY.

Janet says COME ON --.
LARRY GOOSEMAN.

Steve says WEREN'T YOU EVER WITH
MILLER?

Dave says NO.

Steve says THE BLUSH IS MODERATELY
RED I MIGHT NOTE.
MOVING ON.
THE LIBERALS ANNOUNCE THIS
WEEK THAT GLENN WRITE HAS --
I THOUGHT YOU SUPPORTED
MILLER WERE YOU WITH
GROSSMAN.

Janet confirms
ABSOLUTELY BOTH TIMES.

Steve continues GOOD FOR YOU.
I STAND CORRECTED.
GLEN WRIGHT HE HAS RESIGNED
PUT THERE ARE REPORTS THAT
RESIGNATION DID NOT COME
CHEAP.
SOME SAY WRIGHT WAS GIVEN
6-FIGURE SEVERANCE PACKAGE
WRIGHT STEPPED DOWN AFTER
THE GOT THAT WSI ABOUT PAID
2800 A MONTH FOR TORONTO
APARTMENT FOR THE FORMER
CHAIRMAN AS WELL AS UPGRADE
TO HIS HOME ALARM SYSTEM IN
KITCHENER.
LIBERALS WERE EVASIVE WHEN
ASKED HOW MUCH THE SEV VANS
PACKAGE WAS.

A video plays.

The caption changes to "Chris Bentley. Labour Minister." He’s in his forties. He has short brown hair and is clean-shaven.

Chris says HE RESIGNED. WE ACCEPTED
THE RESIGNATION.

A journalist asks
DID HE GET PAID TO QUIT?

Chris says HE RESIGNED AND I AM NOT
PERMITTED TO DISCLOSE THE
TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT.

Dalton McGuinty appears next.

A reporter asks
GLEN WRIGHT GOT TAXPAYERS
MONEY TO GO AWAY HOW MUCH?

Dalton says I AM NOT AWARE OF IT.
BUT WE ARE PREPARED FOR IT.

Frank says
YOU KNOW THEY HAVE GOT
SOMETHING TO HIDE.
THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY
CONCERNED ABOUT BEING
ACCUSED BY THE TAXPAYERS OF
NOT BEING PRUDENT.
I AM NOT SURE WHY.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT IS
ABSOLUTE CONTRADICTION OF
WHAT THIS GOVERNMENT
INDICATED THAT THEY WOULD
DO.
THEY PROMISED TRANSPARENCY.

The caption changes to "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader." He’s in his fifties. He has short blond hair and is clean-shaven.

Howard says THEY ARE TRYING TO KEEP
THIS HUSH, HUSH THEY DON'T
WANT TO BE DISCOVERED HOW
MUCH SOMEONE IS GETTING.
PUBLIC MONEY.
THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO
KNOW.
AND LIBERALS PROMISED THEY
WEREN'T GOING TO
ENGAGE IN THIS KIND OF
BACKROOM BEHAVIOUR.
BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT
IS.

The clip ends. Steve appears next back in the studio.

He says THAT'S THE CHARGE HOW DO
YOU THINK LIBERALS SHOULD
PLEAD TO THAT CHARGE?

Sean says WELL DON'T DOUBT THAT
GIVEN GLENN WRIGHT'S
SIGNIFICANT AND SENIOR
RESPONSIBILITIES AT THE WORLD
C WORKER'S COMPENSATION
BOARD THAT THERE IS WAS A
NOT INSIGNIFICANT SEVERANCE
AGREEMENT.
BUT I THINK THE MINISTER AND
THE PREMIER ARE QUITE RIGHT.
MY UNDERSTANDING WOULD BE
FOR THAT TO BE OUT BOTH
PARTIES WOULD HAVE TO AGREE.

Steve says DO YOU THINK HE TO
RESIGN?

Sean says
WELL I WAS NOT INVOLVED
IN THE PARTICULARS OF IT.
I MEAN THERE WERE CLEARLY
SOME PROBLEMS THAT HAD
ARISEN.
GLEN WRIGHT SOMEONE I HAVE
KNOWN AND IN HIS TIME AT
HYDRO ONE AND YOU KNOW I
HAVE GOT BE QUITE FRANK I
CERTAINLY HAD A GOOD
WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM AT
HYDRO ONE BUT IT IS A SEASON
FOR THIS KIND OF YOU NO
QUESTIONING AROUND THE
APPROPRIATENESS OF SPENDING
PARTICULARLY AT CROWN
AGENCIES CROWN CORPORATIONS
PROVINCIALLY.
AND FEDERALLY.
AND I WOULD WANT TO KNOW
MORE ABOUT THE PARTICULAR
DETAILS.
Steve says I MUST TELL YOU THAT
EVERYBODY I HEARD TO TO
ABOUT MISTER WRIGHT HE DID
PRETTY GOOD JOB AT HYDRO ONE
AND PRETTY GOOD JOB WORKERS
SAFETY AND INSURANCE BOARD.
WHY -- WHY IS 2800 DOLLAR A
MONTH APARTMENT OR ALARM
SYSTEM FOR THE HOME IN
KITCHENER CONSIDERED SO
EXCESSIVE OR SO AGGRESSIVE TO
OVERWHELM THE GOOD JOB THAT
ALL ACCOUNTS HE HAS DONE?

Janet says WELL YOU MIGHT WANT TO
ASK MARTIN AT THE GLOBE AND
MAIL.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

Janet continues WELL I THINK IT WAS
MARTIN WHO HAS BEEN DOING
SOME OF THESE STORIES.
BUT, AND IF HE IS NOT MY
APOLOGIES TO HIM.

Steve says HE IS.

Janet continues I THINK THAT -- SEAN IS
REASON GLEN VERY WELL
RESPECTED VERY TALENT THE
SCENE ANOTHER EXECUTIVE WHO
WAS BROUGHT INTO CLEAN UP
THE WSIB AND DID.
WHO WAS BROUGHT IN TO CLEAN
UP HYDRO ONE AND DID.
AND SO, I DON'T KNOW AGAIN
LIKE SEAN THE DETAILS OF THE
PARTICULAR CONTRACTS.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WOULD
BE MY GUESS WITH THE ALARM
SYSTEM IS THAT AS HEAD OF
THE WSIB YOU MIGHT WELL BE
HAVING DEATH THREATS.
IT IS NOT UNCOMMON FOR
PEOPLE WITHIN THAT WSIB
SITUATION TO NEED SECURITY
THAT COULD WELL HAVE BEEN
WHY AND 2800 DOLLARS -- YOU NOT IN
THE INEXPENSIVE THING TO DO.

Steve says WELL 2800 DOLLARS FOR
MONTHLY RENT OF APARTMENT IN
TORONTO AND AGAIN MOST I
GUESS MOST PEOPLE WHO WORK
WROUGHT SIDE OF THE CITY
PARTICULARLY IN YOUR HEAD OF
CROWN AGENCY GET APARTMENTS
IN TORONTO.
YOU KNOW I AM TRYING TO GET
TO BOTTOM OF THIS WHICH IS
ARE THE QUOTE UNQUOTE EXCESS
SO MUCH TO WARRANT FIRING HE
RESIGNED BUT HE WAS HE MIGHT
AS WELL HAVE BEEN FIRED.

Dave says WELL, AS THE OTHER TWO
HAVE SAID, AND IT IS
SURPRISES ME ACTUALLY THAT
ANYBODY THAT HEADS UP WHAT
USED TO BE CALLED WORKER'S
COMPENSATION BOARD HAS SO
MUCH WIDE SPREAD SUPPORT
THAT THEY THOUGHT HE DID A
GOOD JOB.
I MEAN LABOUR WAS HAPPY WITH
HIM.
SO, IT IS CERTAINLY WAS NOT
ON PERFORMANCE OF WORK.

Steve says
SO WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

Dave says I MEAN I GUESS IT IS
DIFFICULT FOR THE PUBLIC TO
TRY TO BALANCE THE 2800 DOLLARS A
MONTH FOR RENT IS A LOT.
AND OF COURSE THERE WERE
OTHER EXPENSES AND OTHER
ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN DEALT
WITH HIM IN THE PAST.
I THINK IT IS UNFORTUNATE
BUT I THINK THE MOST
IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE NOW
IS HOW COULD ONE MAN
SAY AS GOVERNMENT HAS THERE
THAT IS THAT BE TRANSPARENCY
AND ALL OF THE EXPENSES AND
THAT PEOPLE HAVE SPENT IN
ONTARIO HYDRO AND SO FORTH
YOU KNOW CHANGE THE LAW AND
THEN THE FIRST MAJOR DEAL
THAT THEY MAKE, ON A
SEVERANCE PACKAGE TO TRY TO
MAKE A CHANGE, WELL IT IS
SECRET.
AND IT IS SEEMS TO ME THAT
THERE IS A REAL DOUBLE
STANDARD HERE THAT DOES NOT
BODE WELL FOR THE TRANS PAIR
RAN SEE.

Janet says THE OTHER THING ABOUT
LIBERALS THEY ARE GETTING
CAUGHT IN THEIR OWN BECAUSE
PATTY STAR GANG IS BACK.
YOU HAD GORDON ASHWORTH WHO
HAD A CONTRACT.
AND YOU HAVE GOT PETER WHO
WAS THE COMMUNICATIONS
DIRECTOR TO FOR THE FORMER
PRIME MINISTER.
THAT'S TRUE.
BUT ANY I HE WAS PART OF
JEAN CHRETIEN GANG I WILL
SAY.
I AM GETTING VERY PARTISAN
HERE.
BUT HE BACK THERE WITH 157 DOLLARS
AN HOUR 6,000 BUCKS SO FAR.
ON A CONTRACT.
AND THAT SOMEHOW THAT ONE
SOCK BECAUSE PETER A
LIBERAL.
BUT SOME OF THE -- SO.
CONTRACTS THAT I HAVE BEEN
IN PRESS WERE TENDERED ALSO
WHAT YOU ARE SEEING HERE I
WOULD ARGUE AND YES THERE
HAVE BEEN -- THERE IS NO
QUESTION THERE HAS BEEN SOME
JUDGEMENT CALLS BY SOME
PEOPLE WHO PERHAPS SHOULD
NOT -- SHED NOT HAVE BEEN
MADE AND SOME CLEAR RULES
NEED TO BE PUT M PLACE I
WOULD NOT DISAGREE WITH THAT
BUT WHAT YOU ARE ALSO SEEING
HERE IS POLITICAL STRATEGY
BY SOME OF THE BACK ROOM
LIBERALS TO SAY LET'S
DEMONIZE TORIES AND KILL
THEM IT WILL HELP IMPROVE
OUR ELECTION CHANCES DOWN
THE ROAD.

Sean says BUT I THINK THERE IS ALSO
THIS QUESTION OF THE SEASON.
AND I GUESS I WOULD SAY TO
MY FRIENDS IN ALL POLITICAL
PARTIES, QUEEN'S PARK AND UP
IN OTTAWA, I THINK YOU KNOW
THERE IS A POINT WHERE GOT
YOU POLITICS IS GOING TO PUT
EVERYBODY IN A VERY DANGEROUS
SPOT.
I MEAN, I THINK WE WOULD
WANT PEOPLE WHETHER ELECTED
OR APPOINTED TO SENIOR
POSITIONS IN GOVERNMENT, OR
GOVERNMENT AREA
RESPONSIBILITY TO BE
BEHAVING SENSIBLY CLEARLY
PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE
POLITICAL DIVIDE HAVE
APPARENTLY NOT BEHAVED
SENSIBLY AND -- I AM VERY
CONCERN ABOUT THE MOOD AND
THE ENVIRONMENT THAT'S OUT
THERE.
IT IS BIT LIKE OTTAWA AND
MID 60S.
IT GETS VERY NASTY AND SOME
VERY GOOD PEOPLE ARE GOING
TO GET CAUGHT UP IN THIS IN
WAYS THAT WILL NOT IS YOUR
SRAF THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

Janet says
PERHAPS WHAT WE NEED IS
SOME NEW RULES IF YOU WORKED
FOR POLITICAL PARTY OR
POLITICAL CANDIDATE, THAT
MAYBE YOU HAVE THE KIND OF
COOLING OFF PERIOD THAT YOU
HAVE FOR CABINET MINISTERS
AND SENIOR STAFF WHEN THEY
LEAVE THE GOVERNMENT.
TO THERE MAY.

Steve says I KNOW THAT IT HAS
BEEN RELEASED INFORMATION THAT JAMIE
WATT FORMER CONSERVATIVE
ADVISOR HIS FIRM NAVIGATOR
UNTENDERED CONTRACTS
WORTH OVER 400,000 DOLLARS.
AND PETER'S CONTRACT I MEAN,
YES, TENDERED.
AND HE’S A STRATEGIC COUNCIL.
ONTARIO GOVERNMENT MASS DONE
BUSINESS WITH STRATEGIC
COUNCIL YOUR PARTY DID
BUSINESS WITH STRATEGIC
COUNCIL HOW DO YOU KNOW
WHERE TO TKRAT LINES HERE?

Janet says
WE GET BACK AS YOU RECALL
WHEN PEOPLE WERE CRITICIZING
LESLEY NOBLE AND AS I SAID
YOU KNOW JOB DUFFY SENIOR
LIBERAL STRATEGIST IS PART
OF THAT COMPANY.
AND I THINK SEAN MAKES A
VERY GOOD POINT THAT THERE
IS A BIT AFTER KIND OF OH,
LET'S GO YOU KNOW GOT YOU
POLITICS THAT'S GOING ON
HERE.
AND WHAT IS DOES IS IT
DRIVES GOOD PEOPLE OUT OF
THE POLITICAL PROCESS AND
THAT IS VERY BAD THING.
BECAUSE, WHEN AND THE THING
THAT I THINK IS FRUSTRATING
A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ABOUT
THE HYDRO AND THE OPG SYSTEM
OR SITUATION, IS THAT A LOT
OF THAT INFORMATION IS NOT
OUT THERE.
I KNOW THAT SOME THOSE
THINGS WERE TENDERED.
I KNOW THAT SOME OF THOSE
PROJECTS WERE ACTUALLY
QUALITY WORK DONE.
BUT THE SPIN THAT IS BEING
PUT OUT THE SELECTIVE
RELEASE OF INFORMATION, IS
BEING DONE FOR VERY STRICT
POLITICAL AGENDA AND AS SAID
IS THERE WERE SOME JUDGEMENT
CALLS AND THERE NEED TO BE
SOME RULES.

Steve says
BUT YOU THINK THERE MORE TO
IT THAN AT THAT?

Sean says I THINK IT WILL BE A
LOT BETTER IF THEY KNOW THEY
ARE LIKELY GOING TO BE FOUND
OUT.
I THINK THE HYDRO PROBLEM
HAS BEEN ACCESSED BATHED BY
THE LACK OF FREEDOM OF
INFORMATION.
I THINK IF I KNOW THAT DAVE
COOK OR JANET ECKER AND COME
FOI AS WE SAY WHAT I HAVE
BEEN DOING, MAYBE NOT ALL
CASES BUT I THINK IN MOST
CASES, THAT WILL MAKE PEOPLE
A LITTLE MORE SOBER AND
PEOPLE GOT CAUGHT BECAUSE
FOR OR FIVE YEAR PERIOD THAT
HE THOUGHT THERE EXCEPTION
THAT WOULD KEEP IT ALL
QUIET.

Steve says
WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE
TO FOLLOW THE MEAN AS THEY
SAY.
HERE EARLIER THIS YEAR
DALTON MCGUINTY SPARKED FIRE
STORM OF WRIT YEMEN FROM
UNION LEADERS WHEN HE ASKED
ALL PEOPLE FOR EXAMPLE
DOCTORS AND TEACHERS PUBLIC
SERVANTS TO TEMPER THEIR
WAGE DEMANDS.
HE SAID THE PROVINCE CAN'T
AFFORD HIGH SETTLEMENT WHEN
FACED WHEN THE GOVERNMENT
SAYS 5.6 BILL KWHROPB DOLLAR
DEFICIT.
BUT, RECENTLY ONTARIO
COMMUNITY COLLEGE TEACHERS
WON 7.8 PERCENT BOOST IT PROMPTED
THIS RESPONSE FROM PREMIER
TRYING TO DISCOURAGE OTHERS
FROM EXPECT THE SAME.

A new clip plays where Dalton talks to the press.

He says I GUESS WHAT I AM ASKING
OUR PUBLIC IS SECTOR
PARTNERS TO KEEP IN MIND
RATHER UNIQUE SETTLEMENT.
THOSE -- THAT BARGAINING
BEGAN BEFORE OUR GOVERNMENT
CAME INTO POWER.
AND THAT IS NOT TO BE SEEN
AS ANY KIND AFTER PRECEDENT
GOING FORWARD.

Frank says THIS IS A GOVERNMENT NOW
WHOM HAS A POLITICAL
PARTY MADE NUMEROUS
PROMISES TO STAKEHOLDERS
WHETHER THAT BE TEACHERS OR
WHETHER THAT BE NURSES,
WHETHER THAT BE THE PUBLIC
SERVICE.
THESE PEOPLE ALL BANDED
TOGETHER ELECT THIS
GOVERNMENT AND I HAVE TO
BELIEVE THEY DID THAT ON THE
BASIS OF SOME BACK ROOM
COMMITMENT.
THAT THIS -- THAT POLITICAL
PARTY MADE.
NOW, IT IS PAYDAY.

Howard says LOOK, THE LIBERALS
SAID BEFORE THE
ELECTION, THAT THE PRIORITY
WAS TO PROVIDE FOR GOOD
PUBLIC SERVICES.
TO GET AWAY FROM THE
CONSERVATIVE PLAN OF CUTTING
TAXES OR FREEZING TAXES.
MAKE THE INVESTMENTS THAT WE
NEED TO MAKE.
THAT IS WHAT LIBERALS SAID
BEFORE THE ELECTION.
I BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT THEY
MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR
NOW.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Steve says
DAVE COOK IF YOU WERE
UNION LEADER AND YOU SAW THE
8600 TEACHERS AND SUPPORT
STAFF FROM COMMUNITY COLLEGE
GET 7.3 PERCENT OVER TWO YEARS
COSTING 34 MILLION DOLLARS
MORE THAN LAST TIME.
WHAT WOULD YOU INFER FROM
THAT?

Dave says WELL, FIRST OF ALL IT
SHOULD INDICATE THAT I AM ON
A COMMITTEE CALLED THE
COLLEGE COMPENSATION
COMMITTEE WHICH SET THE
POLICY FOR NEGOTIATIONS.
SO, -- AND SO I WANT TO MAKE
SURE PEOPLE KNOW THAT.
BUT THERE SPARE THE OF WHAT
THE PREMIER SAID THAT'S
CORRECT.
THESE NEGOTIATIONS DID START
LAST SUMMER.
AND SORE SETTLED WITH THE
SUPPORT STAFF.
AND I THINK MIGHT EVEN
BEFORE THE ELECTION TOOK
PLACE.
SO THAT'S SORT OF SET
PRECEDENT.
OF COURSE THERE’S GOING TO BE
SOME EXPECTATIONS.
THROUGHOUT SYSTEM THAT WAGES
ARE GOING TO BE SETTLED AND
NEIGHBOUR HOOFED 3 PERCENT.
AND YOU KNOW THIS IS IN THE
BALLPARK.

Steve says THIS IS MORE THAN 3.5.

Dave continues
WELL COLLEGE TEACHER TO MY
SURPRISE WHEN I LOOKED AT
THIS.
THE AVERAGE COLLEGE TEACHER
SALARY IN PROVINCE 69,000
DOLLARS IT IS NOT HIGH.
IT IS NOT EVEN WHAT
PRINCIPAL OF ELEMENTARY
SCHOOL WILL GET OR VICE
PRINCIPAL SO SURE THERE IS
EXPECTATIONS.
WE WENT THROUGH RECESSION AT
THE BEGINNING OF 90S.
WE WENT THROUGH REALLY GOOD
ECONOMIC PARTY TIME WITH THE
CONSERVATISM POWER BUT TAX
CUTS HAD ANYTHING TO
DO WITH WAGES.
SO, YES PEOPLE THERE IS A
LITTLE BIT OF PENT UP DEMAND
THERE.

Steve says
THE TORONTO STAR DID SOME
MATH I WANT TO GIVE HIM
CREDIT HE SAID IF THERE
SIMILAR KIND OF SETTLEMENT
REACHED WITH DOCTORS, IT
WOULD COST 124 MILLION
DOLLARS WITH TEACHERS 4220
MILLIONS WITH PUBLIC SERVICE
REPRESENTED BY 146 MILLION
DOLLARS ACCOUNT GOVERNMENT
AFFORD PREP IMPLICATION OF
THIS AGREEMENT IN OTHER
SECTORS?

Janet says
WELL IF YOU BELIEVE THEIR
DEFICIT CLAIM FOR THE
DEFICIT THEY WENT OUT AND
SAID TO EVERYBODY WE WANTED
TO HAVE LOWER WAGE
SETTLEMENTS SO IT KIND OF
MAKES THEM LOOK HYPOCRITICAL
ABOUT THAT.
AND SURE IT STARTED BEFORE
THEY CAME IN ARE THEY
GOVERNMENT OR ARE THEY NOT?
THE OTHER INTERESTING
QUESTION, THOUGH IS WHERE IS
THAT MEAN COMING FROM?
BECAUSE IN THE BUDGET THAT
WE BROUGHT DOWN LAST YEAR,
WE PUT NEW MONEY IN FOR
UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGE.
FOR QUALITY FUNDS.
TO HELP IMPROVE THE QUALITY
FOR THE DOUBLE COHORT KIDS.
WE MANAGED TO MEET KHAL LONG
WE HAVE HAD SORT OF STUDENTS
IN CHAIRS IF YOU.
BUT THERE WERE LOT OF OTHER
QUALITY THINGS AROUND GIVING
THOSE STUDENTS QUALITY
EDUCATION.
AND SO WE PUT IN MONEY
SPECIFICALLY TARGETED FOR
THAT.
WHAT I AM INTERESTED TO KNOW
IS THAT MONEY NOW BEING USED
FOR THIS WAGE SETTLEMENT.
SO THAT THOSE QUALIFY
COMMITMENT WHAT THESE
STUDENTS NEED ARE NOT GOING
TO BE MET.

Steve says DO YOU THINK SYSTEM CAN
WITHSTAND SIMILAR
COMPENSATION AGREEMENTS WITH
OTHER SECTORS?

Sean says
I THINK THIS WILL PUT SOME
VERY SERIOUS PRESSURE ON THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE.
I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY
DOUBT ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T ENVY HIM HIS
CHALLENGE.
BECAUSE IF I AM ONTARIO
PUBLIC SERVANT OR DOCTOR OR
NURSE, I AM GOING TO LOOK AT
THIS AND SAY, WELL, THAT'S
SEEMS TO BE A BIT OF MARK, NOW.

Steve says YOU ARE RIGHT TO INFER
THAT?

Sean say s
I THINK IT WOULD NOT BE
UNREASONABLE. IN FAIRNESS, IN
FAIRNESS THE BUBBLING OF
THIS OFFER OR THE BASIC
OUTLINE OF THIS OFFER, WAS
ON THE TABLE BEFORE THE
ELECTION.
AND SO IF THE NEW GOVERNMENT
MADE INDIRECT EFFORT TO HAVE
IT WITHDRAWN I THINK THAT
WOULD HAVE IGNITED A VERY
MAJOR LABOUR DIFFICULTY.
AND IT ALSO HAS TO BE
REMEMBER THAT THE GOVERNMENT
DOES NOT BARGAIN DIRECTLY
WITH THIS GROUP.
COUNSEL OF REGIONS AS WE
USED TO CALL IT.
WOULD NEGOTIATE THIS.
FOR THE COLLEGE.
AND PRESUMABLY THEY HAVE
DECIDED AND JANET HAS RAISED
SOME GOOD QUESTIONS THEY
HAVE DECIDED THEY WILL BE
ABLE TO PAY FOR THIS .
HOW SHALL I PUT THIS--

Steve says STRING?

Sean continues
NOT SO MUCH.
BUT SOME PAIN ELSEWHERE IN
THE COLLEGE SECTOR.

Dave says
I DON'T THINK THERE ANY
DOUBT THAT IT WILL BE.
I MEAN -- AS NEGOTIATIONS
ALWAYS HAPPENS YOU GET ALONG
THE WAY I DOUBT WHETHER THE
GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE BEEN
PARTICULARLY THRILLED WITH
ON MARCH 3RD OF HAVING
COLLEGE STRIKE ONLY WEEKS
BEFORE THE COLLEGES ARE SHUT
DOWN FOR THE SUMMER.
TUITION WILL HAVE TO GO
UP AND SOMETHING WILL HAVE
TO GIVE IN WELL TUITION
CAN'T GO UP.
THERE IS FREEZE IN PLACE.

Steve says THAT'S RIGHT.

Janet says SO HOW THEY ARE GOING TO
SQUARE THE SIR ASK, THAT
THEY HAVE GOT THEMSELVES IN
GOING TO BE REALLY
INTERESTING.

Steve says
WELL PREMIER FLOATED THE
IDEA.
LET ME GET YOUR OPINION
ABOUT IT.
HE GAVE SPEECH EARLIER THIS
WEEK.
33,000 PEOPLE WERE THERE TO
HEAR HIM SPEAK AND SAY LOOK
WE GOT FIND NEW WAYS TO PAY
FOR THINGS INCLUDING TOLLS
ON ALL NEW ROADS WHAT DO YOU
INK THAT IDEA?

Janet says WELL ACTUALLY YOU
MAKE IT SOUND MORE AND
MORE LIKE THE
HARRIS TORIES EVERY DAY.
BECAUSE,.

Steve says IS THAT COMPLIMENT
OR CRITICISM.

Janet continues
WELL IT DEPEND ON THE
POINT OF VIEW.
THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT USER
FEES AND HEALTH CARE SYSTEM
AND TALKING ABOUT TOLL
ROADS.
AND THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
DOING GOVERNMENT
DIFFERENTLY.
AND WE DID A LOT OF THAT AND
WE ACTUALLY DID DO IT
DIFFERENTLY ONLY LIBERALS
ACROSS THE HOUSE DIDN'T
AGREE WHEN WE DID TRY AND
MAKE SOME DIFFERENT CHANGES
TO MAKE GOVERNMENT MORE
EFFICIENT.
AND MORE EFFECTIVE SO IT IS
TREL LOW INTERESTING HEARING
HIM SAY THAT.
AND YOU NOPE BECAUSE HE
CRITICIZED THOUGH KINDS OF
THINGS BEFORE IN.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK THE
PEOPLE BREAK AND PLACES LIKE
THAT WILL THINK ABOUT TOWELS
ON ALL OF THEIR NEW ROADS?

Sean says
YOU KNOW TRUTH THEY WILL
SAY TOWELS?
WE WILL PAY NEARLY 4 BILLION
DOLLARS AS MOTORIST IN
TRUCKERS TO THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO EVERY YEAR FOR WHAT
WE THOUGHT WERE ROAD RELATED
TAXES TO IMPROVE HIGHWAYS AND
BUILD NEW ONES.
SO, THEY ARE GOING STAY, AND
ONLY 40 PERCENT OF THAT FOUR
BILLION ACTUALLY GOES
TOWARDS THE TRANSPORTATION
SYSTEM.
THE PEOPLE OTTAWA VALLEY IT
AND CHALK RIVER ARE GOING TO
SAY -- WE ARE PAYING THOSE
TOELS RIGHT NOW AND IT IS
GOING TO BE REAL ISSUE I
THEIR PARTICULARLY FOR
PEOPLE IN RURAL AND NORTHERN
ONTARIO.
IN THE GTA I THINK THERE IS
GOING TO HAVE TO BE A
COMPLETE RETHINK OF HOW WE
MOVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND IN
INCREASINGLY CONGESTED AREA.
BUT IN RURAL AND NORTHERN
ONTARIO INCLUDED JANUARY
NEAT OLD AREA THEY WILL BE
DIM ABOUT THIS.

Janet says
WELL WHAT WE ARE SEEING
IS THIS GOVERNMENT'S WHAT IS
HAPPENING WITH THIS
GOVERNMENT'S COMMITMENT SHE
SAID NO TAX INCREASE THEY
MAY NOT DO TAX INCREASE BUT
THEY ARE SURE AS HECK GOING
TO WHACK THE PUBLIC WITH
USER FEES OF ALL KIND AND WE
HEARD ANOTHER ONE.
TOLL ROADS.

Steve says TO BE CONTINUED.
AS THEY SAY.
DAVE JANET SEAN THANK YOU
FOR THIS THIS WEEK.
AND THAT'S "FOURTH
READING" ANOTHER THIS WEEK I
AM STEVE PAIKIN UNTIL NEXT
SUNDAY.
THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2004, The Ontario Educational.

Watch: John Tory