Transcript: Nuclear Fallout | Dec 07, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON "4TH
READING...

A clip plays.

Dalton McGuinty gives a press conference. He’s in his forties, with brown hair.

Dalton says THEY'VE LEFT US A HECK OF A
BIG MESS.

A male police officer handcuffs a man.

Steve says DISORDER IN THE COURTS.
DOES THE BACKLOG MEAN THAT
CRIMINALS WILL GO FREE?

Steve and three guests sit around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a brown jacket over a light brown open-necked shirt.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
THIS IS "4TH READING" FOR THIS
WEEK.
POLITICS TURNED A BIT UP SIDE
DOWN IN QUEEN'S PARK THIS WEEK.
USUALLY THE GOVERNING PARTY IS
ON THE HOT SEAT.
BUT IT'S THE OPPOSITION
CONSEVERTIVES SQUIRMING AFTER A
NEW REPORT SAYS THAT TAXPAYERS
HAVE TO PAY 4 BILLION DOLLARS.
NOT THE 850 MILLION ORIGINALLY
ESTIMATED TO GET THE
PICKERING NUCLEAR PLANT UP
AND RUNNING. AND TOP OF THAT, WE WON'T GET
PICKERING BADLY-NEEDED
ELECTRICITY UNTIL AT LEAST
2006.
FOUR YEARS AFTER IT WAS
SUPPOSED TO COME ONLINE.
THE LIBERALS RESPONDED BY
FIRING THREE TOP EXECUTIVES AT
ONTARIO POWER GENERATION,
INCLUDING A BIG-TIME FUND
RAISING GUY FOR MIKE HARRIS.

A clip plays.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Dwight Duncan. Ontario Energy Minister." Dwight stands in the Legislature reading a paper. He’s in his mid-forties, with brown hair.

Dwight says I HAVE ACCEPTED THE RESIGNATIONS
OF THE OPG CHAIRMAN AND
THE EXECUTIVE FINANCIAL OFFICER
AND THE CHIEF OPERATING
OFFICER.
WHY DID THIS HAPPEN?
HOW COULD THE GOVERNMENT OF THE
DAY ALLOW THIS MISMANAGEMENT ON
THE PART OF THE OPG?
ONTARIO'S MOST VALUABLE AND
IMPORTANT ENERGY ASSET.
IT'S SIMPLE, MISTER SPEAKER.
THEY SAT BACK AND THEY DID
VIRTUALLY NOTHING ABOUT IT.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Steve says AND THAT'S NOT THE
ONLY ALLEGATION OF
MISMANAGEMENT TO HIT THE TORIES
THIS WEEK.
CRIMINALS FACING ALMOST 100,000
CHARGES COULD GO FREE SIMPLY
BECAUSE OF A MASSIVE COURT
BACKLOG.
AND WATER WORKS THAT HAVEN'T
SENT IN SAMPLES OF E-COLIE TESTING
DESPITE THE DEATHS OF SEVEN
PEOPLE IN WALKERTON FROM THAT
BACTERIA JUST A FEW YEARS AGO.
ALL THAT AND MORE IN THE ANNUAL
BOOK OF HORROR STORIES OF THE
PROVINCIAL AUDITOR'S REPORT
RELEASED THIS WEEK.
PREMIER DALTON MCGUINTY’S STANDARD
MESSAGE:
BLAME IT ON TORIES, GOT A GOOD
WORK OUT.

A clip plays.

Giving a press interview, Dalton says IF PEOPLE HAD ANY DOUBT
ABOUT THE FISCAL
IRRESPONSIBILITY AND THE
MANAGERIAL INCOMPETENCE OF THE
TORY GOVERNMENT THAT-- THAT
DOUBT IS SURELY NO LONGER
THERE.
BUT WE'VE BEEN LEFT IS A REAL
BIG MESS.
NOT ONLY ON THE FISCAL FRONT,
BUT IN TERM OF HOW INCOMPETENT
THIS GOVERNMENT WAS AFTER CLOSE
TO NINE YEARS WHEN IT CAME TO,
UM, TO-- TO DELIVERING, UM,
PUBLIC SERVICES.

The caption changes to "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader." Howard is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with blond hair.

At a press conference, Howard says INCREASINGLY ACROSS ONTARIO,
UM, SERVICES THAT PEOPLE NEED,
IN MANY CASES, THE PEOPLE
DESPERATELY NEED, ARE BEING
BANDLY RUN, UNDER FUNDED AND,
IN FACT, IN MANY CASES, THE
MONEY WAS WASTED BECAUSE IT WAS
SO BADLY RUN.

The caption changes to ."Tim Hudak,MPP. PC, Erie-Lincoln." Tim is in his forties, with short black hair and clean-shaven.

Speaking to the press, Tim says THE JOB OF MAKING GOVERNMENT
BETTER, MORE EFFICIENT AND
USING TAX DOLLARS MORE WISELY
IS NEVER DONE.
I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT
FUNCTION OF YOUR POLITICAL
SYSTEM.
WHETHER PROVINCIALLY OR
FEDERALLY FOR THE AUDITOR TO
COME FORWARD.
SOMETIMES IT'S EMBARRASSING TO
THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.
IT'S A NECESSARILY FUNCTION IN
THE NATURE, THAT THE REFORM OF
GOVERNMENT CONTINUES.

The clip ends.

Steve says OKAY.
POWER PROBLEMS AND THE ANNUAL
LITTLE BOOK OF HORRORS, LOTS TO
TALK ABOUT WITH
THE QUEEN'S PARK NATIONAL ISTS.
HERE THEY ARE.
FORMER LIBERAL CABINET MINISTER, SHEAN CONWAY.
FORMER NDP CABINET MINISTER,
DAVE COOKE AND FORMER
CONSERVATIVE CABINET MINISTER,
JANET ECKER.
SEAN, YOU FIRST.
A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT PICKERING
IN THE REPORT.
WHO DESERVES THE
BLAME FOR THE MESS?

The caption changes to "Sean Conway. Former Liberal Cabinet Minister." Sean is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with blond hair. He’s wearing round glasses, a dark blue suit, a white shirt and a striped dark red tie.

Sean says IT'S A BLAME THAT I THINK
CAN BE SPREAD ABOUT.
AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT CONCERNED
WITH BLAME.
IT'S A BIG PROBLEM FOR THE
GOVERNMENT AND THE ECONOMY AND
THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO.
BECAUSE WE EXPECTED THESE FOUR
UNITS IN PICKERING-A WOULD BE
BACK ON-- BACK ON LINE ABOUT 18
MONTH AGO PRODUCING ABOUT 2,000
MEGA WATTS OF BADLY-NEEDED
POWER WHERE YOU NEED IT IN THE
GREATER TORONTO AREA.
THE FACT THAT THIS REPORT TODAY
IS SO DAMING AND AS YOU
INDICATEED IN YOUR INTRODUCTION
THAT THEY MAY BE YEARS AWAY.
PERHAPS NEVER GOING TO COMPLETE
THE OTHER THREE UNITS AT
PICKERING, MAKES A-- A BAD
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY SITUATION
JUST THAT MUCH MORE SERIOUS.
SO RATHER THAN BLAME, I GUESS
THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR THE
GOVERNMENT AND FOR ANYONE
INTERESTED IS-- HOW ARE WE
GOING TO BRIDGE THIS GAP?
BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS
AND REAL PROBLEM.

Steve says WELL, I'M NOT
PREPARED JUST YET TO IGNORE THE
BLAME QUESTION.
JANET ECKER, LET ME COME TO YOU
ON THIS.
ONE OF THE POINTS THE REPORT
MADE IS THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH
OVER SIGHT BY THE PROVINCE
GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY, AND THAT
HAVE THE PROGRESSIVE
CONSERVATIVES.
SO I'M WONDERING
WHETHER OR NOT THE TORIES, HOW
MUCH THE TORIES HAVE TO EAT
THIS PROBLEM HERE?

The caption changes to "Janet Ecker. Former P.C. Cabinet Minister." Janet is in her forties, with short blond hair. She’s wearing a lavender bottomed jacket and round glasses.

Janet says WELL, I THINK EVERY
GOVERNMENT HAS WRESTLED WITH
ONTARIO HYDRO, AS IT WAS CALLED
THEN.
OR NOW ONTARIO POWER
GENERATION.
TO TRY AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM
THERE.
BECAUSE YOU HAD THIS BIG
MAMMOTH ORGANIZATION THAT THE
EARLY IN DAYS, UM, PROBABLY DID
THE JOB IT NEEDED TO DO.
BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, IN EVERY
AUDITOR'S REPORT AND-- AND IT'S
NOT A NEW THING TO FIND HORROR
STORIES FROM THE HYDRO
ORGANIZATION.
AND WHILE I HAVE, YOU KNOW,
GREAT, GREAT RESPECT FOR THE
THREE GENTLEMEN THAT-- THAT THE
ENERGY MINISTER, UM, ASKED FOR
THE RESIGNATIONS ON, AT THE
SAME TIME, YOU HAVE TO ASK THE
QUESTION, WHERE WAS THE OVER
SIGHT HERE?
AND-- AND ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY, UM,
BY SENIOR STAFF AT THE, AT THE
PLANT WAS THAT IN THE DOWN
SIZING EXERCISE THAT OPG OR I
GUESS ONTARIO HYDRO WENT
THROUGH MANY YEARS AGO, ONE OF
THE LEVELS THAT GOT STRIPPED
OUT WERE THE MIDDLE MANAGERS IN
THEIR NUCLEAR DIVISION.
THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE
EXPERTISE, THE EXPERIENCE, THE
KNOWLEDGE TO REALLY KNOW WHAT'S
GOING ON IN THOSE TWO-- IN
THOSE TUBES AND
VESSELS, WHATEVER.
WHEN YOU READ THAT REPORT AND
LOOK AT SOME OF THE CRITICISMS
ABOUT THE LACK OR KNOWLEDGE OR
LACK OF SCOPE OF THE PROJECT
AND THE NATURE OF THE WORK THAT
WAS GOING TO BE
DONE.
YOU HAVE TO THINK THAT BACK
THEN THAT WAS A FUNDAMENTAL
PROBLEM.

Steve says DAVE, WHAT DO YOU
CONCLUDE FROM THE REPORT?

The caption changes to "Dave Cooke. Former NDP Cabinet Minister." He’s in his late forties, with short hair and clean-shaven. He’s wearing a blue jacket, a white shirt and a dark blue tie.

Dave says I THINK THAT ONE OF THE
ISSUES HAS TO BE THAT THE
PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT CRITICIZED
OUR GOVERNMENT AND THE
GOVERNMENT BEFORE US AND SAID
THAT ONTARIO HYDRO WAS NEVER
BEING RUN LIKE A BUSINESS.
HAD TO BE RUN MORE EFFICIENTLY.
THEY EVEN WENT AFTER SOME OF
THE SALARIES OF PEOPLE THAT
WERE WORKING FOR ONTARIO HIDE
HE GROW FOR PREVIOUS
GOVERNMENTS.
THEY BROUGHT IN THEIR BUSINESS
FRIEND TO RUN THIS
ORGANIZATION.
IT WAS GOING TO, UM, IT WAS
GOING TO GET ON TRACK.
WELL, IT DIDN'T GET ON TRACK.
UM, WE STILL HAVE MAJOR, MAJOR
PROBLEMS.
NOW I-- I MEAN, I AGREE WITH
SEAN.
UM, THE BLAME GAME CAN ONLY GO
ON FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT NOW HAS
TO GET ON WITH FINDING SOME
SOLUTIONS.
WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF SUPPLY.
AND, UM, WE'VE GOT TO START
TAKING A LOOK AT WHAT OUR
OPENINGS ARE.
THE NDP IS OBVIOUSLY TALKING
ABOUT A MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE
PROBLEM ON-- PROGRAM ON
CONSERVATION AND WE HAVE TO GET
ON WITH THAT.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHETHER OR
NOT NUCLEAR IS A RELIABLE,
AFFORDABLE SOURCE OF POWER IN
THIS PROVINCE.

Sean says STEVE, CAN I SAY A COUPLE OF
THINGS?
I THINK THERE'S A CONNECTION
BETWEEN THIS ISSUE OF OUR
DEBATE TONIGHT AND THE
AUDITOR'S REPORT.
BECAUSE, UM, BECAUSE I HEAR
WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT BLAME AND I
DON'T WANT TO SOUND SELF
CONGLATORY.
BUT I'VE BEEN ONE OF THE MEMBER
OF THE LEGISLATURE OVER THE
LAST FEW YEARS TRYING TO FIND
OUT, PRECISELY WHAT WAS GOING
ON WITH THIS REFURBISHMENT.
I ACCEPTED THE ADVICE SEVEN
YEARS AGO, AS A MEMBER OF THE
SELECT COMMITTEE THAT AS TOUGH
OF A DECISION AS IT WAS,
BECAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE
TELLING THE LEGISLATURE IN '97,
THERE'S NO POINT SPENDING MORE
TIME AND MORE MONEY TRYING TO
REFURBISH PICKERING-A.
TOLD BY PEOPLE LIKE TOM ADAMS
THE ENERGY PROBE.
IT'S A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.

Steve says YOU SHOULD HAVE
FOLLOWED THAT ADVICE, YOU'RE
SAYING?

Sean says WE HEARD THAT ADVICE.
THE COMMITTEE AND LEGISLATURES,
GOOD CONSEVERTIVES AND LIBERALS
AND DEMOCRATS, SAID THAT ALL
GIVEN, GIVEN THE GRAVITY OF THE
SUPPLY CHALLENGE WE WERE FACING
THAT IT WAS PROBABLY WORTHWHILE
TO PROCEED ON THE BASE OF
EVIDENCE AND EXPERT ADVICE TENDERED.
IT LOOKS IN RETROSPECT, I
LOOK-- I FEEL EMBARRASSED BY
MY DECISION SIX OR SEVEN
YEARS AGO--

Steve says THAT'S GOOD OF YOU TO
ADMIT TODAY.
BUT YOU'RE NOW AT THE SAME
CROSSROADS, NOT YOU, BUT
LEGISLATURES TODAY ARE AT THE
SAME CROSSROADS.
FACED WITH A BILL NOT OF 800
MILLION DOLLARS BUT 4 BILLION OR
PROBABLY MORE, RIGHT?
WOULD YOU ADVISE THEM TO WALK
WAY FROM PICKERING TODAY?

Sean says I WOULD CERTAINLY BE A LOT
MORE SKEPTICAL AND MUCH MORE
LIKELY TO DO THAT THAN I WAS
SEVEN YEARS AGO.
THE REASON WE DIDN'T ADVISE IT
SEVEN YEARS AGO IS THAT AT THE
TIME, WE WERE TAKING OFF LINE
4,600 MEGA WATTS OF INSTALLED,
BASE LOAD ELECTRICITY SUPPLY
FOR THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
QUESTION IS, WHERE ARE YOU
GOING TO GO GET IN THE
SHORT-TERM THE REPLACEMENT
ENERGY?
WHERE MOST OF THE REPLACEMENT
ENERGY HAS COME FROM, QUITE
FRANKLY, IS DIRTY, COAL-FIRED
U.S. ELECTRICITY FOR WHICH
WE'RE PAYING PREMIUM PRICES
MUCH POINT I WANT TODAY MAKE AS
WELL IS THAT THE YOU HAD A
TOOR, THE PROVINCE AUDITOR, 18
MONTH AGO TOLD US, WARNED US
WHEN HE ADVISED ON THE, ON THE
WHOLE QUESTION OF THE BRUCE
LEASE, HE SAID TO THE
LEGISLATURE, IN JUNE OF 2002, I
THINK IT WAS, THAT-- THAT THE--
THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO
AND THE LEGISLATURE OF ONTARIO
SHOULD BE SPENDING MORE TIME AND
MORE EFFORT TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT WAS GOING WRONG AT THE
PICKERING REFURBISHMENT.
AND MY POINT IS SIMPLY THERE:
WHETHER IT'S HYDRO OR OTHER
ISSUES THAT THE AUDITOR'S REPORT
COMPLAINS ABOUT, OUR DEMOCRATIC
INSTITUTIONS IN THE
PARLIAMENTARY WORLD HAVE SIMPLY
GOT TO DO A BETTER JOB OF
OVERSEEING THESE IMPORTANT AND
COSTLY VENTURE THAT ARE DONE
IN THE PUBLIC'S NAME.

Janet says AND SEAN MAKES A GOOD POINT.
BECAUSE THE CHALLENGE WITH, UM,
WITH THE HYDRO SITUATION, AND
YES, I AGREE, WE HAVE A
SERIOUS-- THE GOVERNMENT HAS A
VERY SERIOUS CHALLENGE AHEAD OF
IT IN TERMS OF MAKING A
DECISION.
AND I NOTED THE REPORT SAID
MAKE A DECISION.
I DIDN'T NOTE IT SAYING WHICH
DECISION IT SHOULD MAKE ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, ABOUT REFURBISHING
THE UNIT THERE.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE SITTING AROUND
THE TABLE, AS A POLITICIAN,
YOU'RE NOT THE EXPERT.
YOU HAVE TO RELY ON THE
EXPERTS.
AND THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME
MECHANISM, SOME ACCOUNTABILITY
THERE SO THAT--

Steve says FAIR ENOUGH.
BUT WE'RE RELYING ON YOU TO ASK
THE PROBING QUESTIONS--

Janet continues TRUST ME, EVERY ENERGY
MINISTER THAT I KNOW, AND
CERTAINLY ARE NOT TELLING TALES
OUT OF SCHOOL, AND I I SUSPECT
OUR GOVERNMENT WAS NO DIFFERENT
THAN THE TWO PREVIOUS
GOVERNMENTS, THERE'S A LOT OF
TOUGH DISCUSSIONS AROUND THE
TABLE ABOUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING
AT THE PICKERING PLAN.
WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH O ABOUT
PG OR HYDRO.
AND YOU RELY ON THE EXPERT
ADVICE THAT YOU'RE GIVEN.
YOU ASK THE QUESTIONS.
MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE AN, A
MINISTER OF ENERGY WHO'S A
NUCLEAR ENGINEER.
I DON'T KNOW.
MAYBE THAT'S THE
SOLUTION.
BUT THERE'S A PROBLEM HERE.

Steve says LET'S ASK THE NASTY
POLITICAL QUESTION HERE, WHICH IS, BILL
WAS A GOOD FRIEND OF MIKE
HARRIS'.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS HE
GOT THE JOB AS HEAD OF THE
ONTARIO POWER GENERATION.
HE KNEW MIKE HARRIS.
THE LIBERALS HAVE BEEN LOOKING
FOR AN EXCUSE TO GET RID OF
BILL SINCE THEY GOT IN.
WAS THIS THE EXCUSE THAT THEY
NEEDED?

Janet says EVERY GOVERNMENT THAT COMES
IN HAS PUT THEIR HAND-PICKED
PERSON IN CHARGE.
WHETHER IT WAS ONTARIO HYDRO OR
OPG, THE PREMIER OF THE DAY
FELT THAT THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE
THE PROBLEM WAS TO PUT SOMEONE
IN THERE WITH THE SKILL SET
THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY NEEDED
AND THAT HAD THE PREMIER'S'S
TRUST.
I'M ASSUMING THAT THE PERSON
THE LIBERALS PUT IN THERE WILL
BE THE SAME KIND OF INDIVIDUAL.
AND-- AND THE JURY IS OUT
WHETHER THEY WILL HAVE A BETTER
TRACK RECORD OF WRESTLING THIS.
THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT
THAT REPORT IS NWA THEY HAVE
DONE IS TAKEN POLITICAL CONTROL
OF OPG.
WITH THE SHARE HOLDER'S
RESOLUTION AND THIS WILL BE A
VERY INTERESTING PROCESS TO SEE
IF THEY ARE ACTUALLY ABLE TO
RUN THIS ORGANIZATION AT THE
POLITICAL LEVEL.

Steve says LET'S GO OVER TO THE
AUDITOR'S REPORT.
FORGIVE ME, SEAN, THE TIME
GETTING TO BE A FACTOR HERE.
AS WE LOOK AT ONE OF THE MAJOR
REPORTS IN THE AUDITOR'S
REPORT, PROBLEMS WITH WATER
TREATMENT SYSTEM IN SMALL RURAL
MUNICIPALITIES, UM, UM, ONE TO
TWO MILLION PEOPLE RELYING ON
THESE WATER SYSTEMS.
HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT-- THAT
AFTER WALKERTON, WE'RE STILL
NOT FINDING OUT THAT THESE
SYSTEM ARE GETTING
CHECKED AND ARE
PROPERLY RUNNING.
THAT TO ME SOUNDS INCREDIBLE.

Dave says WE STILL HAVEN'T
MADE THE INVESTMENT.
I THINK WHAT IT RAISES FOR NOW
AND INTO THE FUTURE, UM, REALLY
IS THE CURRENT PREMIER HAS
SAID WE DON'T HAVE AN ADEQUATE
TAX BASE.
AND WE HAVE NO MONEY TO INVEST
NOW.
BECAUSE THEY'RE MOTT PREPARED
TO LOOK AT OTHER OPTIONS.
UM, IN ORDER TO INCREASE THAT
TAX BASE.
THESE PROBLEMS ARE GOING TO
CONTINUE TO EXIST.
BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE
RESOURCES.
NOW, I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE A
MATURE DISCUSSION IN THIS
PROVINCE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE
COLLECT ENOUGH MONEY IN THIS
PROVINCE IN ORDER TO PAY FOR
THE SERVICES THAT WE
NEED TO PROTECT OUR HEALTH AND
SAFETY.
UM, CRIMINAL CASES, UM, I MEAN,
WE COULD BE IN THE SAME
POSITION THAT WE WERE IN TEN
YEARS AGO.
WHEN THOUSANDS OF CRIMINAL
CASES WERE, WERE DISMISSED.
BECAUSE OF THE TIME THAT IT
TOOK TO GET THEM TO COURT.

Steve says ARE YOU CONCERNED
TODAY THAT THERE MIGHT BE-- I
MEAN, PARKING TICKET WE DON'T
CARE ABOUT.
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT SERIOUS
VIOLENT OFFENDERS THAT MIGHT
NOT COME TO TRIAL?

Dave says THIS IS THE CONCERN.
WE WERE THERE WHEN-- WHEN, UM,
WHEN THE LAST EXPERIENCE, UM,
CAME ABOUT WITH THIS.
AND, UM, IT'S-- IT'S A GREAT
CONCERN.
AGAIN, RELATES TO HEALTH AND
SAFETY.
UM, I THINK THE PEOPLE OF THIS
PROVINCE ARE NOT GOING TO
CONTINUE TO BUY FROM A
GOVERNMENT THAT-- THAT OUR TAX
BASE IS INADEQUATE.
LET US SOLVE THE DEFICIT
PROBLEM AND THEN WE'LL GET ON
TO SOLVE OTHER PROBLEM.
THESE ARE URTLEB PROBLEMS THAT
NEED TO BE DEALT WITH NOW.

Steve reads 27 percent, THE AUDITOR
DISCOVERED,
27 percent OF REGISTERED WATER WORK
HAD NOT SUBMITTED THE MINIMUM
NUMBER OF WATER SAMPLES FOR TWO
OF THE HIGHEST-RISK SUBSSTANCES.
E.COLI AND ANOTHER ONE.
He asks WHAT CAN ANY GOVERNMENT BE
EXPECTED TO DO ABOUT THAT?
PEOPLE EXPECT THAT NOT TO BE
THE CASE?

Janet says WELL, EVERY YEAR-- I MEAN,
YOU DON'T NEED A CALENDER TO
KNOW WHAT FALL IS OVER IN
ONTARIO.
THE LEAVES FALL OFF AND THE
CHRISTMAS DECORATIONS GO UP AND
THE AUDITOR RELEASES ANOTHER
REPORT WHEN-- NO MATTER WHO THE
GOVERNMENT IS THAT-- THAT ZEROS
IN ON SOME AREA WHERE THERE'S
BEEN NOT GOOD MANAGEMENT OR BAD
DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE.
OR THERE ARE PROBLEMS THAT ARE
NEEDED THAT YOU NEED TO FIX.
IT'S A GOOD PROCESS.
IT HELPS KEEP GOVERNMENTS OF
EVERY POLITICAL STRIVE
ACCOUNTABLE.
HE'S IDENTIFIED
SOME PROBLEMS.
I KNOW MYSELF, I HAD MINISTRIES
WHERE THE AUDITOR WOULD
IDENTIFY PROBLEMS, SOME OF THEM
YOU KNEW ABOUT, AND SOME OF
THEM YOU DIDN'T.
YOUR JOB WAS TO STAND UP AND
SAY TO THE TAXPAYERS, HERE'S
WHAT I'M GOING TO DO TO FIX IT.
HERE'S WHAT I'VE ASKED THE
STAFF TO DO TO FIX IT.

Steve says I WANT TO KNOW THAT
FROM SEAN.
AS A FORMER MINISTER , WHEN
THE AUDITOR BROUGHT OUT HIS
REPORT, DID YOU DO ANY OF THE
THINGS
THAT HE SUGGESTED IN ORDER TO
CHANGE THINGS?

Sean says YES. AND LIKE JANET,
AND I THINK DAVE WOULD AGREE
AS WELL,
WHEN YOU WERE A MINISTER AND
YOU WERE, IN FACT, SINGLED OUT
IN AN AUDITOR'S REPORT FOR
NECESSARY IMPROVEMENTS, MY
SENSE WAS AND MY MEMORY WAS
THAT THERE'S A REAL DESIRE
INSIDE THE DEPARTMENT TO-- TO
DEAL WITH IT.
AND I AM QUITE CONCERNED BY
SOME OF WHAT I'M HEARING IN
THIS REPORT ABOUT PARTICULARLY
INSPECTION AROUND WATER AND--
AND FOOD SAFETY.
THAT-- THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF
THAT DAVE COOKE RIGHTLY
OBSERVED, SENSIBLE PEOPLE IN
ONTARIO EXPECT THAT THE
GOVERNMENT WILL BE RIGHT.
PARTICULARLY IN LIGHT OF WHAT
HAPPENED IN WALKERTON
ELSEWHERE.

Dave says WE HAD INSPECTORS CHECK OUT
VIDEO SHOPS.
AND--

Steve says THAT'S A POINT.
CHECKED OUT X-RATED VIDEO
SHOPS.
DIDN'T THEY?

Janet says THAT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION.
BUT THE OTHER THING, AND THIS
IS PERHAPS A LITTLE-- BUT ONE
OF THE OTHER FUNDAMENTAL THINGS
ABOUT HOW GOVERNMENT IS RUN IS
WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY
WITHIN THE SYSTEM?
WE'VE ALL BEEN MINISTERS, WHERE
SOMETHING SCREWED UP IN OUR
MINISTRY.
THERE'S GREAT PEOPLE IN THE
CIVIL SERVICE.
BUT SOMETIMES SOMEBODY MAKES A
BAD DECISION AND ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT THE CIVIL SERVICE
ITSELF HAS TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE IS
THE ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISM
INSIDE THERE SO WHEN THERE ARE
PROBLEMS AND THE MINISTER
ANSWERS THE QUESTION AS THEY
SHOULD PUBLICLY.
WE TAKE THE FALL PUBLICLY.
THAT'S THE JOB AS THE MINISTER.
BUT NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.

Sean says THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON
IN OTTAWA-- JANET'S RIGHT.
ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, THE
TAXPAYERS SEE THIS ALL THE
TIME.
NO MATTER THE
MESS, THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE
AN APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF
ACCOUNTABILITY.
I'M GOING TO GO WATCH-- AND I
THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING
TO WATCH WITH MUCH INTEREST TO
SEE HOW THE FEDERAL
PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE NOW
DEALS WITH THE RADWANSKI
MATTERS.
BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE
THINGS IN THE CASE OF
EXTRAORDINARY BEHAVIOUR, THERE
HAS TO BE MORE A SANCTION AND
SEEN TO BE MORE OF A PENALTY
FOR A REAL GRADE-A SCREW UP.

Steve says LET'S SEE HOW WE
HANDLE THE NEXT ISSUE TODAY.
ISSUE NUMBER TWO.
SAYING THEY'RE CHANGING THE
DIRECTION OF GOVERNMENT, THE
LIBERALS THIS WEEK MOVED TO RAISE THE
MINIMUM WAGE.
THE INCREASE TO 7 DOLLARS
AND 15 CENTS AN HOUR
IN FEBRUARY
AND EVENTUALLY
TO 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR BY THE YEAR OF
2007 IS, YES, A PROMISE
MADE AND A PROMISE KEPT BY THE
LIBERALS.

A clip plays.

The caption changes to "Chris Bentley. Ontario Labour Minister." Chris is in his fifties, clean-shaven with dark hair.

At a press interview, Chris says WE KEPT OUR COMMITMENT TO
INCREASE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO 8 DOLLARS
AN HOUR OVER THE COURSE OF OUR
MANDATE.
AND THAT'S NOW IMPLEMENTED.
UM, IT BEGINS FEBRUARY 1ST.
IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT STEP FOR
PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN LIVING ON
MINIMUM WAGE AND HAVE BEEN
FROZEN FOR ALMOST NINE YEARS.

Tim says UM, WELL, THEY'RE GIVING A
SMALL RAISE IN MINIMUM WAGE,
THEY'RE INCREASING TAXES ON
LOW-INCOME FAMILY AND
INCREASING HYDRO RATES.
I THINK THOSE WILL BE WORSE OFF
UNDER THE MCGUINTY GOVERMENT.

At the Legislature, Howard says LIBERALS WANT YOU TO
CELEBRATE THAT THEY'VE NOW
INCREASED THE MINIMUM WAGE TO
THE LEVEL THAT IT WOULD HAVE
BEEN AT IN 1997.
SPEAKER, WHAT THIS MEANS FOR
THE LOWEST-PAID WORKERS, WHAT
THIS MEANS FOR ALL OF THOSE
WORKERS WHO HAVE HAD THEIR WAGES
FROZEN IS NOT VERY MUCH.

The clip ends.

Steve says DAVE COOKE, PROMISE
MADE... PROMISE KEPT.
END OF STORY?

Dave says WELL, I ANY THAT THERE--
OBVIOUSLY THAT-- THAT'S THE
PROMISE THAT THEY MADE.
AND, UM, THE POSITION THAT
HOWARD HAMPTON'S TAKING, RAISE
IT TO 8 DOLLARS RIGHT AWAY.
I'M NOT SURE HOW PRACTICAL THAT
IS.
I GUESS THE QUESTION FROM A
PUBLIC POLICY QUESTION IS, IS
THERE SOME MECHANISM WE CAN PUT
IN PLACE SO THAT WE DON'T GET
THIS GAP OF SEVEN OR
EIGHT YEARS WITHOUT AN INCREASE
IN MINIMUM WAGE.
THAT'S THE UNFORTUNATE PART
THAT-- THAT THESE FOLKS HAVE
HAD TO WAIT THIS LONG.
NOW WE'RE GOING TO GET A STAGED
APPROACH OVER FOUR YEARS.
BECAUSE IT WOULD PROBABLY BE
TOO OFTEN OF A SHOCK FOR
BUSINESS TO GO FROM WHERE WE
ARE NOW, RIGHT UP TO 8 IN ONE
SHOT.
SO I I THINK THAT WE GOT TO
LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT-- THAT
ALLOWS FOR SOMETHING THAT'S MORE
ON GOING, MORE STAGE EACH YEAR
SO THERE'S SOME ADJUSTMENT AND
FAIRNESS.

Steve says JANET, WHY DID THE
CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT NEVER
RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE BETWEEN
1995 AND 2003?

Janet says THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS
HERE.
AND I THINK THE POINT
THAT TIM HUDACK MADE IS QUITE
IMPORTANT.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT
THE IMPACT WILL BE IN THE
ECONOMY.
THERE'S NO QUESTION ON THE
HUMAN COMPASSION SIDE.
YOU WANT-- YOU SAY YOU WANT TO
GIVE PEOPLE MORE MONEY OF THE
THAT'S A NATURAL DIRECTION TO
WANT TO GO TO.
BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT
WHETHER THIS MAKES SOME OF
THESE POSITIONS UNAFFORDABLE
FOR A SMALL BUSINESS TO HIRE
THAT YOUNG STUDENT.
TO GIVE THEM THAT CHANCE
FOR THE PERSON, AND
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE
KEPT IS THERE WAS TO MAKE SURE
THAT-- THAT THERE WOULD BE
THOSE JOBS-- AND YOU RAISE THAT
MINIMUM WAGE, YOU START LOSING
JOBS.
AND I THINK THAT YOU GOUT TO
GET THE BALANCE RIGHT.
YOU ALSO HAVE TO REMAIN
COMPETITIVE.
WITH OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
AND THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE NOW
GOING TO HAVE THIS NEXT YEAR IN
ONTARIO IS THAT OUR SMALL AND
MEDIUM BUSINESSES ARE GETTING
HIT ON MINIMUM WAGE, THEY'RE
GETTING HIT ON INCREASED TAXES,
THEY'RE GETTING HIT ON
INCREASED HYDRO PRICES.
AND ALL OF THAT ADDS UP IN THE
ECONOMY.
AND IT'S FINE FOR THE MINISTER
TO SAY, WE'RE DOING THIS FOR
THE INDIVIDUALS IN-- AND, I I
MEAN, WE CAN ALL APPRECIATE
THAT.
BUT IF THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB IF
THAT SMALL BUSINESS CAN'T HIRE
THAT PERSON NOW, CAN'T AFFORD
THAT PERSON, THAT'S NOT HELPING
THEM EITHER.

Dave says BUT IF YOU-- YOU'LL NEVER
RAISE IT.
YOU WERE IN GOVERNMENT DURING
THE STRONGEST PERIOD OF THE
ECONOMY, IN MY LIFETIME, OF
GROWTH, AND YOU ARE-- YOU WERE
CUTTING TAKAFUMIS AND STILL
SAID--

Janet says BECAUSE WE WERE COMPETITIVE
AND HAD TO LOWER TAXS.

Dave continues AND YOU STILL SAID YOU
COULDN'T RAISE MINIMUM WAGE.
NOW YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE TAXES
ARE NOT BEING FURTHER LOWERED,
UM, THAT YOU STILL CAN'T RAISE
MINIMUM WAGE.
BY THAT I RATIONAL, YOU WOULD
NEVER RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE OF
THIS PROVINCE.

Janet says IT'S NOT A A QUESTION OF
WHETHER YOU RAISE OR LOWER THE
MINIMUM WAGE.
THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS YOUR
COMPETITIVENESS?
HOW ARE YOU DOING OUT THERE?
IS THIS GOING TO BE AN
AFFORDABLE POSITION?

Steve says SEAN, ARE YOU
CONCERNED SOME PEOPLE WON'T GET
HIRED NOW BECAUSE THE MINIMUM
WAGE IS GOING UP?

Sean says LISTEN, IT'S NOT A PERFECT
WORLD.
BUT I SIMPLY WANT TO SAY THAT
THESE ARE
BY AND LARGE THE PEOPLE AT THE
BOTTOM OF THE ECONOMIC LADDER.
YOU KNOW, I HAVE LISTENED OVER
THE LAST FIVE AND SIX AND SEVEN
YEARS, AND I'VE READ IN THE
FINANCIAL PRESS ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, PEOPLE GETTING HUMUNGOUS
BONUSES AND POLITICIANS AND
EXECUTIVES GETTING PAY RAISES
OF A DOUBLE-DIGIT KIND AND
PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM END ARE
SUPPOSED TO DO WITH WHAT?
NOTHING.
THAT'S JUST-- I'M A LIBERAL,
I'M A SMALL L LIBERAL AND I
THINK WE'RE ENJOYING THE, YOU
KNOW, TO-- TO REMEMBER THE
LEAST OF YOUR BRETHREN.
THESE ARE
ECONOMICALLY-SPEAKING,
EXEMPT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, THE
MOST DISADVANTAGED PEOPLE IN THE
ECONOMY.
AND JANET DOES MAKE A POINT.
I THINK THERE ARE SMALL BUSINESS
CONCERNS.
BUT I HEARD SOME SAYING THAT
PEOPLE LIKE A SMALL MINORITY OF PEOPLE
IN THE SMALL-BUSINESS SECTOR
ARE PAID THE MINIMUM WAGE, IT
DOES HAVE AN IMPACT, I GRANT
YOU.
BUT OVER A PERIOD OF THE '90'S,
YOU KNOW, THE WILD AND WOOLLY '
90'S AND '90'S OF EXECUTIVE
BONUSES AND, AND ALL THE REST
OF THOSE EXCESSESES, UM, AN
EIGHT-YEAR FREEZE ON THE
MINIMUM WAGE, NOT VERY FAIR.
AS A LIBERAL, I THINK-- I WAS
HAPPY TO SUPPORT MCGUINTY'S
COMMITMENT MADE AND PROMISE
KEPT.

Janet says ONE OF THE INTERESTING
THINGS THAT THE PREVIOUS
GOVERNMENT DID ALSO IS IN EVERY
YEAR, IN EVERY BUDGET, MORE
MODEST INCOME ONTARIANS WERE
TAKEN OFF THE ONTARIO TAX ROLL
SO MANY THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO
PAY--
THEY DID NOT HAVE TO PAY
ONTARIO INCOME TAX.
AND SO I THINK THAT WAS, AGAIN,
A GOOD THING FOR THOSE
FAMILIES.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE STARTING
OUT, WHEN YOU'RE GETTING BACK
INTO THE WORK FORCE, A STUDENT
OR WHEN YOUR SKILLS ARE VERY
LIMITED, THE LAST THING YOU
NEED IS GOVERNMENT IN YOUR
POCKET.

Steve says 30 SECOND.

Sean says I THINK ONE OF THE WORRIES
FOR A LOT OF REGULAR FOLKS,
THEY JUST LOOK AT THE PERIOD OF
THE '90'S, AND I DON'T EVEN
MEAN THIS AS A PARTISAN
OBSERVATION, I THINK THEY'RE
QUITE A PENT-UP RAGE THAT--
THAT UPSTAIRS, UM, EXECUTIVES
AND-- AND--

Janet says I'M NOT DEFENDING THAT--

Sean says I KNOW YOU'RE NOT DEFENDING
IT--

Janet says THE PAY RAISES ARE ON
THE OTHER END OF THE SCALE.

Sean continues BUT ON THE MAIN STREET,
PEOPLE WERE LOOKING SAND AYING WHAT
DO WE SEE IN EXCESS UPSTAIRS
AND LOWEST PEOPLE IN THE
ECONOMY ARE SUPPOSED TO MAKE DO
WITH WHAT?
I THINK THERE'S A FUNDAMENTAL
LACK OF FAIRNESS--

Janet says BUT THE QUESTION IS, AS I
SAID, I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T
RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE--

Dave says WHAT IS THE RIGHT TIME TO DO
IT?

Janet continues BUT WHAT I HAVEN'T HEARD
FROM THIS GOVERNMENT IS TO
LOOK AT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT,
LIKE, BECAUSE THE ECONOMISTS
ALSO TELL YOU, YOU RAISE THE
MINIMUM WAGE, YOU START TO LOSING
JOBS.
WHERE IS THE BALANCE?
PERHAPS AS YOU SAY DAVE, THERE`S NEEDS
TO BE A MECHANISM THAT LOOKS AT
THAT, THAT LOOKS AT
WHERE WE ARE
ECONOMICALLY, THAT
LOOKS AT OUR COMPETITIVENESS.
AND YOU CAN RAISE THE MINIMUM
WAGE ALL YOU WANT, BUT IF YOU
DON'T HAVE A JOB--

Steve says ONE MORE THING FOR YOU THREE.
THE NDP TRYING A NEW TACTIC TO
PRESSURE THE LIBERALS TO
RECOGNIZE THEIR SEVEN LONELY
MEMBER AS AN OFFICIAL PARTY.
IN A MOVE THAT HAD SOME
OBSERVERS SCRATCHING THEIR
HEADS, NDPERS HELD UP
PROCEEDINGS ON TUESDAY FOR SO
LONG THAT THE DAILY QUESTION
PERIOD WAS CANCELLED.
NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE TWO
PARTIES ON THE ISSUE APPEAR TO
BE GOING NOWHERE FAST.

A clip plays.

The caption changes to "Peter Kormos, MPP. IND, Niagara Centre." Peter is in his late fifties, with white hair.

Giving a press interview, Peter says MISTER DUNCAN, I SHOULD BE ABLE
TO SIT DOWN AND NEGOTIATE A
FAIR RESOLUTION TO THIS.
I THINK THE GOVERNMENT
UNDERSTANDS THAT THE
RESOURCES THAT ARE PROPOSED,
UM, ARE NOT SUFFICIENT.
FOR EVEN A SEVEN-MEMBER CAUCUS
TO FUNCTION IN A MEANINGFUL
WAY.

The caption changes to "Norm Sterling, MPP. PC, Lanark-Carleton." Norm is in his mid-fifties, clean-shaven with receding white hair.

Speaking to a journalist, Norm says THAT THE NEW DEMOCRATS
NOT HAVE PARTY STAT WHEN YOU
SAY THEY GOT 15 percent OF THE VOTE.
AND, YOU KNOW IT, IT DOESN’T MAKE
SENSE TO ME THAT A PARTY
WHICH GETS THAT MUCH,
UM, IN TERMS OF THE POPULAR
VOTE SHOULD BE DENIED THAT KIND
OF, UM, FINDING...

Talking to the press, Dalton says THE NDP DIDN'T ACQUIRE
OFFICIAL PARTY STATUS.
NOT WITHSTANDING IS THAT-- IS
THAT HERE'S A LITTLE MORE THAN
60,000 DOLLARS PER MEMBER.
UM, WE'VE ALSO SAID THAT-- THAT
WE WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN ALL
THE QUESTION PERIODS.
UM, AND ALL THE DEBATES,
RESPOND TO MINSTERIAL
STATEMENTS AND SIT ON ALL THE
COMMITTEES.
I THINK WE'VE GONE A LONG WAY
TO ASSURING WE'VE DONE MORE
THAN IS FAIR.

The clip ends.

Steve says DAVE COOKE, YOU FIRST, WE UNDERSTAND
THE NDP IS UPSET ABOUT NOT
GETTING OFFICIAL PARTY STATUS.
BUT CANCELING QUESTION PERIOD;
WAS THAT A SMART TACTIC?

Dave says LOOK.
IT'S HUMILIATING THE WAY
THEY'RE BEING TREATED AT THE
HOUSE RIGHT NOW.
AT THE FAR END.
HOWARD HAS TO GET UP
IN THE HOUSE AND ASK IF HE CAN
ASK A QUESTION.
THIS IS A PARTY THAT'S BEEN
AROUND FOR A WHILE.
WE WERE GOVERNMENT JUST TEN
YEARS AGO.
WE GOT 15 PERCENT OF THE VOTE S, IS IT A
GOOD TACTIC?
WILL IT WEAR THIN?
IT PROBABLY WILL.
BUT I THINK YOU'VE GOT SEVEN
VERY FRUSTRATED PEOPLE.
AND I THINK THAT IT
REALLY IS AN UNFAIR SITUATION.
UM, THE PREMIER IR IS-- HIS
ARGUMENTS THAT YOU DIDN'T GET
IT, YOU DIDN'T GET IT.
WELL, THE-- THE STATUS THAT
WE'RE ASKING FOR, UM, IS--
WOULD HAVE BEEN GRANTED AT
IN ANY OTHER PROVINCE.
SO-- SO, UM, SO I THINK IT'S
COME TO A POINT WHERE YOU HAVE
A LOT OF FRUSTRATED NEW
DEMOCRATS THERE.
AND, UM, AND I HOPE THAT IT CAN
BE RESOLVED.

Steve says SEAN, I
WANT TO YOU TAKE A VERY FIRM
POSITION ON THIS.
IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE, WOULD
YOU GIVE THE SEVEN OFFICIAL
PARTY STATUS?

Sean says I WOULD HAVE DEALT WITH THIS
DIFFERENTLY AND PERSONALLY, I
WOULD HAVE GRANTED OFFICIAL
STATUS.
PARLIAMENT IS IN A BAD WAY AND
DIMINISHING IN CREDIBILITY WITH
EVERY PASSING ELECTION.
I AGREE WITH NORM STERLING,
QUITE FRANKLY.
MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY IF YOU
HAVE 15 PERCENT OF THE VOTES CAST IN
AN ELECTION, UM, YOU'RE
SOMETHING MORE THAN A GROUP OF
LOOSE FISH.
UM, BUT, BUT PREMIER MCGUINTY
DOES MAKE THE POINT.
THESE WERE THE RULES AT THE
TIME OF THE LAST--

Steve says RULES CAN CHANGE.

Sean continues THERE'S A COMMITMENT TO MOVE
FORWARD AND CHANGE THEM.
AND I WOULD SAY THAT-- THAT
EVERYBODY DOWN AT THE PARK,
LISTEN, THIS IS TO
SOME DEGREE AN INSIDE THE BELT
WAY BUSINESS.
FIX IT.
THE PUBLIC EXPECTS YOU TO
GET ON WITH THE PROBLEM
OF HYDRO AND THE PROBLEMS OF
THE COURT SYSTEM AND THE
PROBLEMS OF, UM, OF EMPLOYMENT.
BUT, BUT CERTAINLY I WOULD SAY
TO MY FORMER COLLEAGUES IN
THE-- IN THE LEGISLATURE, NONE
OF THIS IS BRINGING ANY GREAT
DISDISTINCTION AND HONOUR TO A
BUSINESS THAT'S IN SOME TROUBLE
AND FIX IT.
FIX IF IN A SENSIBLE WAY THAT
MAKES THE PLACE WORK BETTER.

Steve says IF YOU WERE A CABINET
MINISTER DOWN THERE STILL,
JANET.
AND SOME MEMBERS OF OPPOSITION ORGANIZED TACTICS
THAT RESULTED IN THE
CANCELLATION OF QUESTION
PERIOD, HOW YOU WOULD YOU FEEL
ABOUT THAT?

Janet says FIRST IMPULSE IS THANK GOD,
NO QUESTION PERIOD TODAY.
BUT I THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE
THEY HAVE TO GET FIXED.
PETER KORMOSS NDP HOUSE LEADER,
HE'S A FORCE OF NATURE--

Steve says THAT'S ONE PHRASE.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY--

Dave says JUST LISTENING--

They all laugh.

Janet continues BUT I MEAN, THEY MAY ONLY
BE SEVEN MEMBERS.
BUT THEY CAN DISRUPT THE
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
MAKE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY TO CARRY
ON.
NOW, DWIGHT DUNCAN IS A VERY
EXPERIENCEDED HOUSE LEADER, BUT
THIS IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM
FOR THEM.
IT MAKES THE PREMIER, MAKE HIS
GOVERNMENT LOOK SORT OF CHEAP.
UM, OR CHINSEY OR SOMETHING.
I WAS SURPRISED-- BECAUSE THE
ABOUT PREMIER SET THE TONE
RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE VERY
QUICKLY HE WAS ASKED THE
QUESTION AND BROUGHT THE GATE
DOWN, EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THE
OTHER MEMBERS IN HIS GOVERNMENT
AND CAUCUS SAID, WAIT A MINUTE,
MAYBE WE OUGHT TO WORK
SOMETHING OUT.
THEY NEED TO WORK SOMETHING OUT
HERE.

Steve says LAST 30 SECOND TO
YOU, DAVE COOKE.
DO YOU SUSPECT THE FORMER
COLLEAGUES DOWN THERE WILL KEEP
AT THIS FOR MONTHS TO COME?

Dave says WELL, I THINK THEY WILL.
KNOWING THEM AND KNOWING MISTER
KORMOS.
LOFTS OF ENERGY.
AND, UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT--
IT IS INC UMBANT ON
THEM, TOO.
SEAN'S RIGHT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE
PUBLIC IS PROBABLY MORE CONCERN
WITH ONTARIO HYDRO
AND HEALTH AND WATER AND THOSE
TYPES OF ISSUES.
SO AT SOME POINT, THEY'RE GOING
TO HAVE TO, UM, HAVE TO MAKE A
POLITICAL DECISION OF HOW FAR
THEY GO TO.

Sean says THE LAST WORD TO ANY
GOVERNMENT AND I THINK WE'VE
ALL BEEN HOUSE LEADERS HERE IS
THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO
UNDERSTAND IS THAT IN YOU OUR
SYSTEM, TRUST ME, YOU WANT
TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE
GOING TO HAVE A VIGOROUS
OPPOSITION.
BUT YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD
WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM,
BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, NO MATTER
HOW BIG YOUR MAJORITY, THEY WILL
MAKE YOU PAY.

Steve says LOTS OF ENERGY AMONG
THE NDP DOWN THERE.
IF NOT AT PICKERING.
THAT'S THE LAST WORD THIS WEEK.
THANK YOU TO-- THANK TO THE
THREE OF FOR BEING THERE.
THAT'S "4TH READING" FOR THIS
WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY, THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2003, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

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