Transcript: Ontario Election Campaign - Week One | Sep 07, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON
"FOURTH READING," THE
RACE IS ON.

Clips of politicians campaigning appear on screen.

Steve continues HITTING THE CAMPAIGN
TRAIL IN WEEK ONE OF THE
ONTARIO ELECTION.

Now, Steve, Ruth, Richard, and Blair sit with a guest around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, glasses, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a brown coat with a wavy brown polo.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY
WELCOME TO A NEW SEASON
OUR 12TH OF "FOURTH
READING."
WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH A
GLOVES COMING OFF IN
CAMPAIGN 2003.
LIBERAL LEADER DALTON
MCGUINTY SAYING
CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN
USING PUBLIC PURSE AS
THEIR COOKIE JARS.
THE NDP HOWARD HAMTON OF
ACCUSING CAVES CAVES OF
GAMBLING WITH PEOPLE'S
LIVES BY CUTTING THE
NUMBER OF INSPECTORS.
ERNIE EVES WARNS ELECT
THE LIBERALS AND WE WILL
BE SMACK DAB IN THE MID
OF THE MAJOR RECESSION.
AND THAT'S ONLY WEEK
ONE, PEOPLE.
WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT
THE WEEK THAT WAS IN
JUST A MOMENT.
FIRST AIN'T VIEW WITH
THE PREMIER WE SPOKE TO
HIM EARLIER TODAY DURING
A CAMPAIGN STOP IN
BELLVILLE.

Now Steve and the Premier appear on screen in an interview room. The Premier is in his fifties, has short, slick back, gray hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a white shirt, and black pants.

Steve says PREMIER, YOU ARE
RUNNING A CANDIDATE WITH
EXPERIENCE.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO
START BY ASKING YOU TO
GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF
ONE POLICY DECISION THAT
YOU HAVE MADE AS PREMIER
WHERE THE RESULTS TURNED
OUT BETTER THAN THEY
OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE
BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THE
PREMIER CHAIR AND NOT
SOMEBODY ELSE?

The premier says WELL, I DON'T WANT TO
COMPARE MYSELF TO
SOMEBODY ELSE.
I JUST KNOW THAT
EXPERIENCE CERTAINLY
HELD ME IN 22 YEARS OF
PUBLIC LIFE AND IS
SERVING AS FINANCE
MINISTER OF THE PROVINCE
AND DEPUTY PREMIER FOR
ABOUT SIX YEARS.
EVERY LITTLE BIT OF
EXPERIENCE HELPS.
AND WELL IN THE RECENT
BLACKOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, I
MEAN, BEING ABLE TO GET
A GRASP OF THE ISSUE
KNOWING IMMEDIATELY WHAT
TO DO IN TERMS OF
CALLING THE EMERGENCY
OPERATIONS CENTRE,
PUTTING IT TOGETHER.
AND BEING ABLE TO MAKE
THE DECISIONS THAT WERE
REQUIRED TO BE MADE
ESPECIALLY IN THE FIRST
48 HOURS.
BY HOW QUICKLY WE GOT
DIFFERENT GENERATORS
ACROSS THE PROVINCE BACK
UP AND RUNNING.
KNOWING THAT WE WERE
GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A
HUGE CON TREUB BUYING
NOT JUST FROM INDUSTRY
AND COMMERCE BUT BY THE
PEOPLE OF PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO TO REDUCE
CONSUMPTION BY 4500 MEGA
WATTS AND OFFICIALS AT
THE IMO BY THE WAY TOLD
US THAT WAS IMPOSSIBLE.
NOBODY HAD EVER DONE IT.

Steve says BUT IT GOT
DONE.

The premier says YES.
AND YOU KNOW I GO BACK
COMPLIMENTING THE PEOPLE
FOR THAT.
BECAUSE THEY ALL
CONTRIBUTED.
SURE INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE CONTRIBUTED A
LITTLE BIT MORE THAN
CONSUMERS.
NOBODY WOULD HAVE
SUGGESTED THAT THEY
WOULDN'T.
BY AT THE END OF THE DAY
THE REALITY IS ALL WOULD
HAD TO LOOK AT 8:00, AND
THAT PEAK DEMAND WENT UP
BY 900 TO 1,000 MEGA
WATTS YOU KNEW THAT
PEOPLE WERE PAYING
ATTENTION.

Steve says OKAY.
BUT, AGAIN, GETTING BACK
TO MY QUESTION, THOUGH.
WHAT ABOUT YOUR 22 YEARS
OF EXPERIENCE IN PUBLIC
LIFE MADE THAT HAPPEN
WHERE IT WOULD NOT HAVE
HAPPENED HAD SOMEBODY
ELSE BEEN IN THE
PREMIER'S CHAIR?

The premier says YOU HAVE TO A, BE
CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO BE
ABLE TO TAKE CONTROL OF
THE SITUATION.
AND TO CHAIR THOSE
MEETINGS WHICH I TKFR
MORNING.
AND TO MAKE SURE THAT
YOU EVEN WHEN SOME
OFFICIALS DISAGREED WITH
YOU AND SUGGESTED TO YOU
THAT COULDN'T BE DONE,
THAT YOU KNEW THAT
THAT'S WHERE YOU WANTED
TO GO AND YOU HAD TO GO
THERE AND YOU HAD TO DO
IT RIGHT AWAY.
AND THAT TAKES COURAGE
SOME TIMES BECAUSE WHEN
YOU HAVE SOME PEOPLE
TELLING YOU THAT IT
CAN'T BE DONE, AND YOU
KNOW AND YOU BELIEVE
THAT IT CAN BE DONE, YOU
HAVE DO STICK TO YOUR
GUNS.

Steve says LET'S GET INTO
SOME OF THE ISSUES.
WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING
FOR THE LEADERSHIP YOU
WERE AGAINST BANNING
TEACHER STRIKES.
NOW YOU ARE PROGRAM SAYS
TO BAN TEACHER STRIKES.
CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT
YOUR THINKING ON ISSUE
THAT?

The premier says ACTUALLY MY THINK ON
THIS ISSUE EVOLVED SINCE
ABOUT 1982.
WHEN WAYS FIRST A MEMBER
IN PERRY SOUND.
WE HAD I BELIEVE IT IS
STILL LONGEST STANDING
TEACHERS STRIKE IN THE
HISTROY OF THE PROVINCE.
IN THE WEST PRAIRIE
SOUND SECONDARY.
AND I WILL NEVER FORGET
THE IMPACT THAT HAD.
A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE
LOST THEIR SCHOOL YEARS
IN THAT PARTICULAR YEAR.
AND I ALWAYS BELIEVED
THAT YOU SHOULD -- IF
YOU CAN RESOFLT ISSUES
BY NEGOTIATION YOU
SHOULD.
BUT IN THE LAST COUPLE
OF YEARS, AND DURING THE
LEADERSHIP DEBATE BY THE
WAY WHICH WAS IN LONDON
ONTARIO I BELIEVE WHERE
IT WAS BROUGHT UP, I WAS
OEUPBL ONLY ONE OF THE
LEADERSHIP CHAN DATES
THAT SAID GOOD CONCEPT,
BUT CAN YOU MAKE IT
WORK.
FROM A FISCAL POINT OF
VIEW.

Steve says BUT YOU LOOKED
SKEPTICAL.

The premier says WELL YOU ARE
CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT
THE -- WHAT AFFECT IT
MIGHT HAVE ON THE BOTTOM
LINE OF THE BOOKS AND
THE PROVINCE.
NOW IN THE LAST TWO
YEARS, ELIZABETH MIT
SKPHOER I HAVE GIVEN
TEACHERS ACROSS THIS
PROVINCE A 3 percent A YEAR
INCREASE.
WHICH IS 340 MILLION
DOLLARS A YEAR.
I THINK ANYBODY IN
SOCIETY WOULD AGREE
THAT'S WITH A REASONABLE
INCREASE.
3 percent A YEAR.
3 percent A YEAR.
68000 MILLION.
WE SAW THIS PAST SPRING
AND THAT CASE IT WAS THE
SCHOOL BOARD LOCKING OUT
TEACHERS AND 07,000
YOUNG STUDENTS IN THE
ELEMENTARY SEPARATE
PANEL IN TORONTO.
BUT I REALLY DON'T CARE
WHO IS AT FAULT.
I DON'T THINK LABOUR
DISPUTES IN THE
EDUCATION SYSTEM SHOULD
BE RESOLVED IN THE
CLASSROOM.
WHETHER IT IS TEACHERS
UNION DECIDING TO GO ON
STRIKE OR WHETHER IN
THAT CASE FOR EXAMPLE IT
IS SCHOOL BOARD LOCKING
OUT NOT JUST TEACHERS
BUT ALSO STUDENTS OR
WHETHER WORK TO RULE
WHICH SEEMS TO BE A MINI
STRIKE WITHIN THE
CLASSROOM FLAVOR OF THE
MONTH TYPE OF THING.
THERE ARE LITERALLY
THOUSANDS OF HOURS THAT
ARE LOST EVERY YEAR
THOUSANDS OF DAYS BY
YOUNG PEOPLE IN THIS
PROVINCE THAT TO LABOUR
DISPUTES AND SURELY, WE
CAN NOW DIVIDE A PIECE
OF LEGISLATION AND A
SYSTEM THAT WILL ALLOW
TEACHERS TO BE TREATED
FAIRLY, AND WHICH I
CERTAINLY BELIEVE THEY
SHOULD BE.
AND I THINK MY ACTION
HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT
IN LAST TWO YEARS.
BUT ALSO, REMEMBERING
WHAT COMES FIRST IN
EDUCATION SYSTEM.
KEEPING OUR STUDENTS IN
CLASSROOM EVERY DAY.
AND I THINK WE CAN DO
BOTH.

Steve says OKAY.
ANOTHER ISSUE WHEN THE
SUPREME COURT RULED THAT
SAME SEX MARRIAGES WERE
LEGAL, YOU SAID IF THEY
WANT TO BE UNION WHY
WOULD I INTERTPWAOER
THAT.
THAT WAS YOUR COMMENT
AND THAT'S MY PERSONAL
VIEW YOU SAID.
NOW, RECENTLY YOU HAVE
SAID I BELIEVES THAT MAR
WRAPBLG WAS UNION TWO
MALE AND FEMALE.
AGAIN, COULD YOU GIVE AS
YOU SENSE OF HOW YOUR
POSITION HAS EVOLVED ON
THAT ISSUE?

The premier says MY POSITION HAS NOT
CHANGED.
MY PERSONAL BELIEF OF
WHAT IS GOOD FOR ME,
ERNIE EVES AND HOW HE
WAS BROUGHT UP AND
EVERYBODY I THINK EVERY
ONTARIAN, HAS PERSONAL
LIFE EXPERIENCE AS THEY
WERE GROWING UP AS A
CHILD THEIR BACKGROUND,
THEIR RELIGION BELIEFS,
ET CETERA.
ALL OF THAT MOLD YOU
INTO HOW YOU ARE AND
WHAT YOUR BELIEVES ARE
AS YOU BECOME ADULT.
I STILL BELIEVE THAT FOR
ME, THAT'S WHAT MARRIAGE
MEANS.
BUTT I DON'T HAVE THE
RIGHT TO IMPOSE THAT
VIEW ON OTHER PEOPLE.
AS MATTER OF FACT I
WOULD GO SO FAR TO AS
SAY AS PREMIER OF THE
PROVINCE SAY
RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND
IT IS RIGHTS OF EVERY
CITIZEN OF THIS
PROVINCE.

Steve says YOU DON'T
THINK YOUR POSITION HAS
CHANGED?

The premier says NO.
IT HAS NOT CHANGED.
I STILL BELIEVE THAT I
AM THERE TO TO PROTECT
RIGHTS OF THOSE PEOPLE
THAT MIGHT HAVE
DIFFERENT BELIEVES AND
DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW
ON THIS ISSUE.
TKHAOEUPB.
AND I WILL PROTECT THOSE
RIGHTS.

Steve says DO YOU BELIEVE
IN REGULATING THE ENERGY
MARKET?

The premier says WELL, THE CONCEPT OF
DEREGULATION MEANS A LOT
OF THINGS TO A LOT OF
PEOPLE.
I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT
THERE IS MORE REGULATION
IN THE ENERGY MARKET
TODAY THAN THERE WAS A
FEW SHORT YEARS AGO.
AND WE HAVE AND WE HAVE
HAD I MIGHT ADD FOR SOME
PERIOD OF TIME IN THIS
PROVINCE, VARYING
SUPPLIERS OF ENERGY
GENERATORS OF ENERGY IN
THIS PROVINCE NOT JUST
THE OLD ONTARIO HYDRO OR
THE NEW OPG ALTHOUGH
THEY DO CONTROL THE
MAJORITY OF THE MARKET.
IN TERMS OF GENERATION A
THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT
THAT.
ABOUT 85 percent.
BUT THERE ARE OTHER
FORMS OF POWER.
AND THERE ARE OTHER
GENERATORS.
AND OF COURSE, WE LIKE
EVERYBODY ELSE ON
NORTHEASTERN GRID IMPORT
POWER AND EXPORT POWER
EVERY SINGLE DAY EVERY
HOUR VIRTUALLY ALMOST OF
EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR.
PEOPLE I THINK SOME
TIMES CONFUSE
TRANSMISSION SUCH AS IN
HYDRO ONE, AND WE TALKED
TO ABOUT THAT POSITION
AND MY THINKING HAS
EVOLVED THERE.

Steve says HOW?

The premier says WELL, I GUESS
COINCIDENTLY FOR ME
THERE THAOPD BE A BI
ELECTION IN WENT I WAS
RUNNING AND THERE
HAPPENED TO BE THE ISSUE
OF MR. JUSTICE GANS
TALKING ABOUT THE
PROPOSED SALES OF SOME
OF THE SHARES OR ASSETS
OF HYDRO ONE.
AND MY THINKING DID
EVOLVE QUITE FRANKLY
LISTENING TOP PEOPLE,
GOING DOOR TO DOOR AND
LISTENING TO PEOPLE'S
CONCERNS ABOUT THE FACT
THAT THE TRANSMISSION OF
THEIR POWER MIGHT FALL
OUTSIDE OF PUBLIC HANDS
AND I HAVE MADE
COMMITMENT TO THE PEOPLE
OF THE PROVINCE OF
ONTARIO THAT THE
TRANSMISSION OF POWER,
HYDRO ONE, WILL REMAIN
IN PUBLIC CONTROL.
WE WILL NOT LOOSE
CONTROL.
THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO
WHO OWN 100 percent OF HYDRO
ONE WILL NOT LOST
CONTROL.
THAT'S A LITTLE
DIFFERENT THAN COMPETING
GENERATORS OF ENERGY,
COMPETING FOR MORE
COMPETITIVE MARKET WHICH
ACTUALLY HAS GONE ON
BEHIND THE SCENES OF THE
OLD ONTARIO HYDRO FOR
YEARS BUT NOBODY
ACTUALLY SAW IT.
AND IT IS JUST NOW THAT
PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO
REALIZE THAT THERE IS
THAT COMPETITION AT THE
WHOLESALE MARKET THAT
GOES ON.

Steve says THE REASON I
ASK ASKED ABOUT THESE
THREE ISSUES IN
PARTICULAR AND I HEAR
YOUR ANSWERS ON THEM.
BUT SOME PEOPLE HAVE
ASKED ME WHICH ERNIE
EAVES IS IT THAT'S
RUNNING FOR OFFICE?
IS IT IS GUY WHO THIS
POSITION ON BANNING
TEACHER STRIKES THAOR
POSITION?
IS IT THE GUY WHO SAID
ONE THING ON GAY
MARRIAGE AND THEN
APPEARED TO SAY ANOTHER
IN THEIR VIEW.
IS IS IT THE GUY IN
FAVOUR OF MARKET OPENING
ON ENERGY BUT CERTAIN
CAME IN AND REREGULATED?
AND THEY ARE WONDERING
WHICH GUY IS RUNNING FOR
OFFICE?
CAN YOU SEE WHY SOME
PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A
PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING
WHERE YOU ARE ON THE
VARIOUS DAYS OF THE
WEEK?

The premier says WELL, I DON'T HAPPEN
TO AGREE WITH THE
PREMISES TAKEN ON EACH
ONE OF THOSE ISSUES.
BUT PUTTING THAT ASIDE,
I MEAN, I DON'T EXPECT
CRITICS AND ESPECIALLY
OPPOSITION CRITICS TO
GIVE ME GLOWING
ENDORSEMENTS.
THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB AND
THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY ARE
PAID TO DO.
THE REALITY IS IT IS SAY
DAY WHEN PEOPLE CAN'T
LEARN FROM THEIR
EXPERIENCE AND IT IS SAY
DAY WHEN THEY CAN'T
EVOLVE THEIR THINKING ON
SOME ISSUES.
BUT MY BASIC PRINCIPALS
OBJECT OR PREMISES THAT
DRIVES ME TO AS WHO I AM
HAVE NEVER CHANGED.
I HAVE DESCRIBED MYSELF
AS A FISCALLY
RESPONSIBLE INDIVIDUAL,
I BELIEVE THIS WAS A
TRUE CONSERVATIVE, SMALL
SEA OR LARGE SEAL
CONSERVATIVE BUT WHEN
WHO HAS SOCIAL
CONSCIOUS.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN
CONCERNED WITH LEARNING
TO SAVE DISABLED
SKPHEURPB I HAD A SON
WHO WAS LEARNING DIS
SKPABLD THAT WAS A THING
THAT TRUCK ME VERY
PERSONALLY AND IT WAS
VERY NEAR AND DEAR TO MY
HEART.
I HAVE ALWAYS HAD A
CONCERN ABOUT NATIVE
PEOPLE.
ABORGINAL PEOPLE.
I ALWAYS HAD A CONCERN
ABOUT THE LESS FORTUNATE
IN SOCIETY.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME,
AND THIS MAY SOUND LIKE
IT IS CONTRADICTION BUT
I BELIEVE IT IS NOT, IF
YOU DON'T HAVE A SOLID
ECONOMIC BASE YOU CAN'T
PROVIDE THOSE THINGS FOR
THE PEOPLE OF THE
PROVINCE.

Steve says FAIR ENOUGH.
IF I HEARD IT ONCE I
HAVE HEARD IT HUNDRED
TIMES FROM TORIES.
ERNIE EAVES GOT ELECTED
ON MODERATE CENTRALIST
KINDER GENTLER PLATFORM
AND NOW HE IS RUNNING ON
HARDER EDGED WEDGE ISSUE
DRIVEN SOCIAL
CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING
PLATFORM AND THEY THINK
THAT'S IRONIC.

The premier says I DON'T THINK THIS IS
EXTREME RIGHT WING
PLATFORM AT ALL.
I WOULD BEG TO DIFFER.
MAKING OUR ECONOMY
STRONGER, I AM QUITE
PROUD OF MY RECORD AS
FINANCE MINISTER.
AND I DON'T THINK THERE
IS A INDIVIDUAL IN
CANADIAN HISTORY THAT
CUT TAXES AS OFTEN ACE
DID.
AND IN THE SIX YEARS
THAT I WAS FINANCE
MINISTER OF THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO AND WHO WAS
KHAOUPBLG CHALLENGE.
AND THE PEOPLE OF THE
PROVINCE RESPONDED TO
THAT CHALLENGE AND THEY
RESPONDED TO HAVING US
LET THEM KEEP MORE OF
THEIR OWN MONEY AND THIS
IS VERY BASIC PRINCIPAL
OF MINE.
BECAUSE I THINK
GOVERNMENT FROM TIME TO
TIME OF ALL THREE
STRIPES IN THIS PROVINCE
HAVE FORGOTTEN WHOSE
MONEY IT IS.
AND IT IS PEOPLE'S
MONEY.
THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT
HAVE ANY MONEY UNLESS
THEY TAKE IT AWAY FROM
YOU AND I HAVE TAX PAYER
AND RETURN TO US AS THEY
SHOULD, IN SOCIAL
PROGRAMS SUCH AS HEALTH
CARE, AND EDUCATION.
AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE 28
BILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND
THIS YEAR ON HEALTH CARE
OR 15 POINT 3 BILLION ON
EDUCATION BOTH UP I
MIGHT ADD SUBSTANTIALLY
FROM 1995, IF WE DIDN'T
HAVE A ECONOMY DRIVEN BY
THE TAX -- 225 TAX CUTS
THAT'S GENERATING THAT
16.9 BILLION DOLLARS
MORE A YEAR IN REVENUE.
YOU CAN'T HAVE THOSE
THINGS IF YOU STKROPBT
THE ECONOMY.
SO I DON'T THINK OUR JOB
OF BEING COMPETITIVE OR
CUTTING TAXES WHETHER IT
IS TAX CUT FOR SENIORS
AND ALLOWING HOME LIVE
OUT THEIR LATER YEARS
WITH DIGNITY IN THEIR
OWN HOMES.
PROPERTY TAX CUT FOR
THEM OR HELPING YOUNG
FAMILIES REALIZE THE
CANADIAN DREAM.
OF HOMEOWNERSHIP BY
ALLOWING THEM TO DEDUCT
SOME MORTGAGE INTEREST
THEY PAY.
ON THEIR ONTARIO INCOME
FOR THE INCOME TAX.
I BELIEVE THAT THOSE
VERY IMPORTANT THINGS TO
ALLOW THOSE PEOPLE AND
IN OUR SOCIETY TO WHO
HAVE CONTRIBUTED SOY
MUCH TO OUR SOCIETY TO
KEEP A LITTLE BIT MORE
OF THEIR OWN MONEY AND
THAT HAS GENERATED A
CLIMATE THAT HAS
GENERATED JOBS.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU
ABOUT EXPERIENCE AGAIN.
DO YOU THINK MIKE HARRIS
WAS GOOD PREMIER?

The premier says FIRST OF ALL I MUST
SAY THAT MIKE AND I HAVE
BEEN FRIENDS SINCE ABOUT
LATE 70S.

Steve says ARE YOU STILL.

The premier says WE STILL ARE.

Steve says WHEN WAS LAST
TIME YOU TALKED TO HIM.

The premier says I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT
TWO AND HALF WEEKS AGO.

Steve says DID YOU ASK
HIM FOR ADVICE ON THOUGH
CAMPAIGN?

The premier says WELL, I THINK MICHAEL
SMILED A LOT BECAUSE HE
HAD HIS ENFORCE THREE
TIMES.
AND YOU KNOW YOU CAN BE
CLOSE TO SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
AND STILL NOT KNOW
EXACTLY WHAT IT IS LIKE
IF YOU ARE NOT INTO THAT
CHAIR YOURSELF.
AND I MUST SAY THAT
MICHAEL SOMEWHAT
SYMPATHETIC BECAUSE HE
HAS BEEN THERE.
HE KNOWS WHAT IT IS LIKE
AND HE KNOWS HOW
DIFFICULT IT IS.
AND BEING PREMIER IS NOT
EASY JOB.
THERE IS A DIFFICULT
DECISION YOU HAVE TO
MAKE EVERY DAY OF THE
WEEK OR SEVERAL OF THEM
USUALLY.

Steve says THIS IS WHAT I
AM GETTING TO BECAUSE
MIKE MARIS I THINK ALL
OF FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS
AS NATURAL RESOURCE
MINISTER IN HIS HIP
POCKET AS THE GOVERNMENT
EXPERIENCED HE HAD WHEN
HE BECAME PREMIER OF
ONTARIO.
WHICH IS TO SAY I GUESS
NOT VERY MUCH GOVERNING
EXPERIENCE.
YOU HAVE SAID THE
PREMIER OFFICE NO PLACE
FOR ON THE JOB TRAINING.
BUT HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY
YOU KNOW ON THE JOB
TRAINING.
AND YOU HAVE NOT HAD ANY
ON THE JOB TRAINING SO
TO SPEAK.
THERE IS NO EXPERIENCE
OF BEING PREMIER OTHER
THAN TO BE PREMIER,
RIGHT?
WHY CAN'T DALTON
MCGUINTY LEARN IT ON THE
JOB?
EVERYBODY DOES.

The premier says WELL, EVERYBODY CAN
LEARN ON THE JOB.
BUT WILL YOU MAKE
MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY
THAT ARE GOING TO
POTENTIALLY HARM THE
PEOPLE OF THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO.
I JUST HAPPEN TO BELIEVE
THAT EVERYBODY BRINGS
CERTAIN ATTRIBUTES AND
NOBODY PERFECT IN OUR
SOCIETY AND NO
INDIVIDUAL IS.
WE ALL HAVE STRONG
POINTS.
WE ALL HAVE WEAK POINTS.
BUT AT THE END OF THE
DAY NO MATTER WHAT YOU
ARE DOING, AND IN YOUR
LIFE WHETHER IT IS WHAT
OCCUPATION YOU HAVE OR
PROFESSION THE MORE
EXPERIENCE THAT YOU HAVE
CERTAINLY HELPS THERE IS
NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.
HAVING BEEN FINANCE
MINISTER FOR THIS
PROVINCE, AND TAKING IT
OUT AS SOME VERY
DIFFICULT TIMES AND
PUTTING IT BACK ON THE
RIGHT TRACK ECONOMICALLY,
HAVING BEEN DEPUTY
PREMIER AND HAD THE
OCCASION THAT AGREE IT
IS NOT SAME THING AS
BEING PREMIER BUT IT IS
STILL A LITTLE CLOSER TO
THE PREMIER'S CHAIR THAN
NOT BEING DEPUTY
PREMIER.
HAVING DONE THAT FOR SIX
YEARS, CERTAINLY HELPED
ME QUITE GATE BIT AND
THE FACT THAT NOW DACEY,
IN TODAY'S WORLD YOU
HAVE ALL OF THESE
UNEXPECTED CHALLENGES I
MEAN WHO, WOULD HAVE
THOUGHT TWO OR THREE
YEARS AGO THAT THIS
PROVINCE WAS GOING TO
HAVE TO STARE S.A.R.S IN
THE FACE, AND LOOK OUT
FOR MAD COW DISEASE, AND
THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE
TO DEAL WITH WEST NILE
VIRUS, AND THEY WERE
GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL
WITH A BLACKOUT CREATED
IN THE STATE OF OHIO BUT
IMPACTED NOT JUST
ONTARIO BUT SEVEN OUR
JURISDICTION.
YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT
EXPERIENCE ON THE JOB
WHETHER IT WAS A AS
FINANCE MINISTER OR
WHATEVER, DOES NOT HELP
YOU PUT YOU IN A MOLD
WHERE YOU ARE IN
DECISION-MAKING MODE
EVERY DAY.
AND YOU ARE ABLE TO
RESPOND IN A CALM COOL
COLLECTED MATTER TO
THOSE UNEXPECTED
CHALLENGES.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT NEXT
CHALLENGE WILL BE.
WE CERTAINLY KNOW THERE
WILL BE ONE AND IF YOU
LISTEN TO MEDICAL
EXPERTS AND SCIENTIST
ESPECIALLY THEY WILL
TELL YOU THAT ANOTHER
S.A.R.S OR ANOTHER TYPE
OF VIRAL INFECTION IS
JUST MATTER OF TIME AND
WE DON'T KNOW WHEN IT
WILL BUT WE DO KNOW WE
HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
RESPOND.

Steve says I KNOW YOU ARE
STUDENT OF ONTARIO
HISTORY.
I WANT TO ASK YOU A
QUESTION.

The premier says OH, NO.

Steve says 1981 THE TORIES WIN
AND LIBERALS TAKE OVER.
AND THEN NDP TAKE OVER
AND THEN 959 TORIES TAKE
OVER AGAIN.
IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU
FOLLOW THE HISTORY.
THAT PEOPLE WANT TO
THROW THE BUMS OUT AFTER
YOU KNOW EVERY FIVE
YEARS OR SO.
HOW HEAVILY DOES THAT
WEIGH ON YOU?

The premier says I DON'T EVEN THINK
ABOUT IT.
WHAT I THINK ABOUT IS
HOW IMPORTANT THE VOTE
ON OCTOBER 2ND IS TO THE
FUTURE OF THIS PROVINCE.
AS YOU KNOW I LEFT
PUBLIC LIFE FOR ABOUT
EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS.
AND I CAME BACK WHEN
UNEXPECTLY TO ME FOR
SURE, MIKE DECIDED THAT
HE WAS NOT GOING TO SEEK
REELECTION AND HE WAS
GOING TO DEPART PUBLIC
LIFE.
I THINK IT IS VERY
IMPORTANT THAT THIS
PROVINCE CONTINUES ON
THE ECONOMIC ROAD IT IS
ON.
AND WE HAVE ENJOYED
ECONOMIC PROGRESS IN
THIS PROVINCE AND IN
LAST EIGHT YEARS THAT
SURPASSED ALL OF THE G8
NATION IN THE WORLD.
AND IT IS NOT
COINCIDENCE YOU DON'T DO
THAT EIGHT YEARS IN A
ROW BY COINCIDENCE.
YOU MIGHT DO IT ONE YEAR
IN A ROW BY COINCIDENCE
OR EVEN DO TWO NOT
STATE.
AND IF WE GO BACK TO THE
TAX AND SPEND POLICIES
OF PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT,
AND START DIGGING OUT
SOLE OF A HOLE WHERE THE
GOVERNMENT WAS SPENDING
MILLION DOLLARS AN HOUR.
WE ARE GOING IN A LOT OF
TROUBLE AND OUR FUTURE
FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE
IN A LOT OF TROUBLE AND
I DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT
HAPPEN.

Steve says BUT IF IT THAT
SO APPARENT WHY ARE YOU
BY DIFFERENT POLLS 10-15
POINTS BEHIND THE OTHER
GUYS?

The premier says WELL I DON'T -- FIRST
ALL I DON'T BELIEVE WE
ARE.
BUT WHAT I BELIEVE OR
DON'T BELIEVE IS NOT
REALLY GOING TO BE
RELEVANT.
IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY
THERE IS ONLY WAY POLL
THAT COUNTS.
AND THAT'S THE POLL.

Steve says LET ME GUESS.

The premier says THAT'S ELECTION DAY.

Steve says I NEVER HEARD
THAT LINE BEFORE.

The premier says ON OCTOBER 2.
AND I AM CONFIDENT --
LISTEN ALL THREE PARTIES
ALL THREE LEADERS ALL
THREE CANDIDATES, FOR
ALL THREE PARTIES, WE
ALL HAVE POLICIES.
AND ALL I ASK IS THAT
PEOPLE OF ONTARIO LOOK
AT THE POLICIES THAT WE
HAVE PUT FORWARD AND
ROAD AHEAD COMPARE TO
THOSE THE OTHER TWO
PARTIES, AND THAT THEY
COMPARE LEADERSHIP
QUALITIES OF THE THREE
LEADERS AND OBJECTIVELY
ASK THEMSELVES WHICH
PERSON DO I THINK I
WOULD PUT MY FAITH AND
TRUST IN WHEN THE NEXT
CHALLENGE COMES BEFORE
THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
AND WHICH PARTY DO I
THINK BEST REPRESENTS MY
PRINCIPAL VALUES AND
BELIEFS WHICH IS MOST
SIMILAR TO A MINE.
AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT
PEOPLE OF ONTARIO DO
THIS AND I DO MY JOB,
AND OUR CANDIDATES DO
THEIR JOBS.
THAT ON OCTOBER 2 THEY
WILL REFLECT OUR
GOVERNMENT.

Steve says ARE YOU
PREDICTING THIRD
MAJORITY GOVERNMENT?

The premier says YES.
AND I TELL YOU I AM
GETTING GREAT FEEDBACK
NO MATTER WHAT PART OF
THE PROVINCE.
I HAVE NOT -- THOEPBL
BEEN GOING ON FOR FOUR
DAYS.
SO DON'T -- NO MATTER
WHAT PART OF AT PROVINCE
I HAVE GONE TO.
AND FOR MONTHS AND
MONTHS BEFORE.
I AM GETTING VERY
POSITIVE RESPONSE.

Steve says THANK YOU FOR
YOUR TIME.
STAY SAFE ON THE
CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

Back In the studio, Steve says ERNIE EVES DURING
CAMPAIGN STOP IN
BELLVILLE EARLIER TODAY.
NOW ALL THREE PARTIES
HAVE COME OUT WITH RAFT
OF ELECTION PROMISE.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK INSIDE
OF OUR FACT FILE TO SEE
THUR THEIR PRESCRIPTION
FOR NEXT FOUR YEARS AND
WE WILL DO IN BRIEF IF
YOU WANT MORE
INFORMATION GO TO THEIR
WEB SITES.
THE CENTRE PIECE OF THE
CONSERVATIVE PLATFORM SO
FAR:

Bullet points appear on screen with a title that reads "PC Platform."

Steve reads aloud as the bullets appear on screen and he says THEY WOULD LIKE MAKE
YOUR MORTGAGE INTEREST
TAX DEDUCTION.
EVENTUALLY UP TO 500 DOLLARS A
YEAR.
THE PCs ARE OFFERING
PROPERTY TAX CREDIT FOR
SENIORS CITIZENS.
I WOULD BAN TEACHER
STRIKES DURING THE
SCHOOL YEAR AND PUSH FOR
A MADE IN ONTARIO
IMMIGRATION SYSTEM THAT
WOULD KEEP CRIMINALS
OUT.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE
LIBERAL PLATFORM THEY
ARE MAKING STRIKING
DEDEPARTURE WHEN IT
COMES TO TAX CUTS THEY
ARE PROMISE NONE.

Another set of bullets appears on screen with a title that reads "Liberal Platform."

Steve reads the bullets and says THEY WOULD CANCEL
CORPORATE TAX CUTS
PLEDGED BY THE
CONSERVATIVE.
AND CANCEL TAX CREDIT
FOR SCHOOL.
REINVESTING THE MONEY IN
HEALTH AND EDUCATION.
57 percent OF HOUSEHOLD
CHILDREN WILL RECEIVE
CHILD CARE SUBSIDIARY
AND THE LIBERALS PLEDGE
TO HELP IMMIGRANTS OVER
COMPARE YEARS TO
WORKPLACE.
AND FINALLY THE NDP
PLATFORM.

Another set of bullets appears on screen with a title that reads "NDP Platform."

Steve reads the bullets and says NEW
DEMOCRATICS TOP OF THEIR
LIST, STOP ANY FURTHER
PRIVATIZATION OF HYDRO
THEY TOO WILL CANCEL THE
PRIVATE SCHOOL TAX
CREDIT AND NDP WOULD
INCREASE MINIMUM WAGE TO
8 DOLLARS AN HOUR IMMEDIATELY.
AND IT WOULD REDUCE
REGULATED NON PROFIT
CHILD CARE FEES TO 10 DOLLARS A
DAY.

Steve says OKAY.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE
WEEK THAT WAS.
WITH OUR PANEL WHO WE
WELCOME BACK.
HERE IS RICHARD MAHONEY.
AND BLAIR MCCREADIE FROM THE SAME
LAW FIRM.
AND THE PRESIDENT OF
THE PC PARTY AND THIS
WEEK DAVID COOK FORM NDP
CABINET MINISTER WHO
DIDN'T GET MEMO TO WEAR
THE BROWN SUIT THIS
WEEK.
BUT DAVE, WE WELCOME YOU
HERE THIS WEEK.
IT IS GOOD TO HAVE YOU
HERE.
WHAT DID ERNIE EVES
ACHIEVE THIS WEEK IN
YOUR VIEW?

Blair McCreadie appears on screen at the table. He is in his forties, has short, thin, straight, grayish brown hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a brown suit, blue shirt, and striped tie.

Blair says I THINK STEVE, ACTUALLY
WE ARE OFF TO GREAT
START.
I THINK THAT WE GOT OUT
CLEAN OUT OF THE GATE ON
TUESDAY.
I THINK THAT ERNIE EVES
IS REALLY SETTING THE
PACE SO FAR IN THIS
CAMPAIGN.
HE IS TOURED EXTENSIVELY
HE STARTED IN BRAMPTON
AND THEN TOURED THROUGH
SOUTHWESTERN ONTARIO HAS
BEEN UP IN EASTERN
ONTARIO FOR LAST COUPLE
OF DAYS IS IN NORTH BAY
TONIGHT.
AND I THINK HE IS REALLY
GETTING OUT THERE AND
TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES
THAT MATTER MOST.

Steve says WE WILL
DISCUSS AGAIN THIS IS
HIS FIRST PROVINCE WIDE
CAMPAIGN AS LEADER.
SECOND CAMPAIGN FOR
DALTON MCGUINTY HOW HAS
THE CAMPAIGN GONE SO FAR
IN YOUR VIEW?

Richard Mahoney appears on screen with a caption that reads "Richard Mahoney, Ontario Liberal Advisor." He is in his forties, has short gray hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a beige suit, white shirt, and a golden tie.

Richard says GOOD LAUNCH I THINK
FOR DALTON MCGUINTY FOR
COUPLE OF REASONS.
FIRST OF ALL, I THINK
THAT LEADERS OF THE
OPPOSITION NEVER GET A
CHANCE TO GET SEEN THAT
MUCH DURING THE TIME IN
BETWEEN ELECTIONS.
AND SO, EVERY NIGHT FOR
PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING
THE NEWS HE THEY ARE
SEEING CONFIDENT AND
ENERGETIC MAN WHO IS
CLEARLY READY FOR THIS
ROLE.
TALKING ABOUT CHANGE.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S
ADVANTAGE FOR HIM AND
HAS HAD GOOD FIRST FOUR
DAYS.

Steve says HAMPTON?

David Cooke appears on screen with a caption that reads "David Cooke, Former NDP Cabinet Minister." David is in his forties, has short, shaved brown hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a blue suit, white shirt, and blue striped tie.

David says I THINK HE HAS DONE VERY
WELL.
LINK THAT HE NEEDS TO
MAKE VERY CLEARLY IS
THAT THE ROLE GOVERNMENT
VERY IMPORTANT.
HE HAS MADE THAT BY
GOING TO WALKERTON AND
GOING NOT TOO FAR FROM
THE MEAT PLANT AND THAT
CUTTING TAXES, WELL, YOU
CAN CUT TAXES ALL YOU
WANT BUT IF YOU DID WILL
YOU CUT PROGRAMS AND PUT
RISK AT THE PEOPLE OF
THE PROVINCE.
I THINK HE HAS MADE THAT
POINT CLEAR.

Steve says DURING OUR
CONVERSATION THE PREMIER
DENIED MY PREMISES.
HOWEVER I HAVE BEEN
APPROACHED BY NUMEROUS
TORIES OVER THE TIME
THAT HE HAS BEEN PREMIER
OF ONTARIO AND BEFORE SO
LET'S GO BACK TWO YEARS
OR SO.
WHO HAVE SAID TO ME YOU
KNOW THIS WAS THE GUY WE
PUT IN BECAUSE HE WAS
MODERATE.
AND HE HAS TURNED OUT TO
BE RUNNING A MUCH MORE
RIGHT-WING CAMPAIGN THAT
WE DID NOT ANTICIPATE.
NOW MAYBE THEY THINK YOU
GOT GET OVER THERE TO
WIN THE ELECTION.
THIS IS NOT THE GUY THEY
PUT INTO POWER.
WOULD YOU ACKNOWLEDGE
THAT YOU HEAR THAT?
DON'T YOU HEAR THAT,
TOO?

Blair says NO, I DON'T.

Steve says YES YOU DON'T?

Blair says I MEAN, LOOK ERNIE
EVES I THINK RECORD OF
CUTTING TAXES AND
PROMOTING ECONOMIC
GROWTH WHEN HE WAS
FINANCE MINISTER I THINK
SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
AND AS A RESULT, WE HAVE
BUILT ON THAT
FOUNDATION.
AND I THINK PREMIER
EAVES IS NOW OUT
CAMPAIGNING ON THE SAME
TYPES OF ISSUES LIKE
MORTGAGE INTEREST
DEDUCTION AND GIVING
SENIORS A BREAK ON
PROPERTY TAX CUTS.
I THINK IT IS ENTIRELY
CONSISTENT.

Steve says DO YOU HEAR THAT?

Richard says YES.
FOR SURE I HEAR THAT.
YOU WILL RECALL WHEN
ERNIE EAVES CAMPAIGN FOR
LEADER TWO THINGS
HAPPENED.
FIRST OF ALL, HE
CAMPAIGNED AGAINST THE
IDEA AS YOU SAID THAT
JIM PROMOTED.
BANNING TEACHER STRIKES.
HE SAID IT WAS TOO
EXPENSIVE AND ALSO
UNFAIR MANAGEMENT LABOUR
PRACTICE.
CAMPAIGNED AGAINST THE
PRIVATE SCHOOL TAX
CREDIT.
POLICY AND HE KNOWS THAT
LET'S TAKE THE TEACHERS
STRIKE ISSUE FOR
EXAMPLE.

David says 98 percent OF THE DISPUTES IN
THIS PROVINCE AND UP IN
SUBTLE CONTRACT WITHOUT
A STRIKE.
WE HAVE HAD MORE
PROBLEMS IN LAST FEW
YEARS THE BIGGEST NUMBER
OF TEACHER DAYS LOST WAS
WHEN THERE WAS A
PROVINCE-WIDE STRIKE AND
PROTEST AGAINST THE
GOVERNMENT.
BUT IT WORKS VERY WELL.
ERNIE EVES KNOWS THAT.
AND HE KNOWS THAT THIS
IS BAD PUBLIC POLICY.
BUT ON DESPERATE ATTEMPT
TO GET GOVERNMENT BACK
AGAIN, HE ALSO KNOWS IT
IS HOT BUTTON SO.
I REALLY THINK WHAT
UPSETS ME MOST ABOUT
THIS PROCESS THAT IS BAD
PUBLIC POLICY HE KNOWS
IT AND HE IS PUTTING
POLITICS BEFORE GOOD
PUBLIC POLICY.

Richard says IT IS BAD AND DAVE IS
VERY COMPELLING EXAMPLE
THERE IT IS SETS UP A
STRAWMAN.
IF YOU ARE AGAINST
TEACHER STRIKES THAT
MEANS THAT HAMPTON AND
DALTON MCGUINTY MUST BE
IN FAVOUR.
BY DEFINITION.
AND OF COURSE WHICH
POLITICAN WHICH LEADER
WHICH PREMIER OF THIS
PROVINCE WOULD EVER
CAMPAIGN IN FAVOUR OF
STRIKES.
BUT ALLOWS YOU TO SET
THAT UP SO YOU CAN TRY
AND DRIVE SOME MORE
VOTES OVER.

Steve says EQUAL TIME FOR BLAIR
ON THIS ONE.

Blair says I HAVE TO SAY DALTON
MCGUINTY ACTUALLY TWHAOS
POSITION ON TEACHER
STRIKES.
YOU KNOW PRIVATE MEMBERS
BILL SUGGESTING THAT
THEY SHOULD BE BANED AND
NOW, THAT HE NEEDS THE
TEACHERS UNION SUPPORT
IN THIS EELECTION HE HAS
DECIDED HE IS ON THEIR
SIDE AND NOT GOING TO DO
ANYTHING.
I MEAN THE BOTTOM LINE
IS THAT WE BELIEVE THAT
THE EDUCATION SYSTEM
NEEDS TO BE ABOUT THE
KIDS AND CLASSROOM.
AND ABOUT THE PARENTS.
THAT'S WHY WE ARE GOING
BAN TEACHER STRIKES.

Steve says YOU THINK THE
OTHER TWO PARTIES DON'T
BELIEVE THAT?
I THINK THEY ARE ON THE
SIDE OF THE SCHOOL BOARD
AND THE UNION BOSSES ON
THIS ONE.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
POLITICAL EXPERIENCE
BECAUSE I KNOW THEY FEEL
VERY A BIG ADVANTAGE IN
THEIR LEADER OFFER THE
OTHER TWO.
WITH THE EXPERIENCE HE
HAS THIS IN GOVERNMENT
HE HAD SEVEN YEARS AT
THE -- ON THE GOVERNMENT
SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
ALL THOSE YEARS AS
DEPUTY PREMIER FINANCE
MINISTER AND OWE ON.
HAMPTON HAS HAD FIVE
YEARS IN GOVERNMENT AS
HAVE YOU DAVE COOK.
DALTON MCGUINTY HAS HAD
NONE.
NO YEARS ON THE
GOVERNMENT SIDE.
HOW SAVING A PROBLEM DO
YOU THINK THAT IS FOR
HIM?
WELL I THINK THAT IT IS
QUESTION OF LEADERSHIP.
AND I THINK THAT ERNIE
EVES HAS DEMONSTRATED
THAT HE HAS THE STRONG
LEADERSHIP ABILITY TO
KEEP THE PROVINCE MOVING
FORWARD.
I THINK HE IS CLEARLY
SAYING THAT'S OUT THERE
TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES
THAT HE BELIEVES IN THEM
AND THAT PEOPLE OF
ONTARIO BELIEVE IN THEM
AND I THINK THAT MAKES A
IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE
WHEN VERYING IN THE
PREMIER ACHAIR.

Steve says CAN YOU TELL
US -- YOU KNOW WHAT I
WILL COME BACK TO THIS
LATER BECAUSE I WILL
KEEP THIS GOING HERE.
HOW SIGNIFICANT A
PROBLEM IS FOR LIBERAL
THAT DALTON MCGUINTY HAS
HAD NOT ONE SECOND IN
GOVERNMENT TO PROVE WHAT
HE COULD PERHAPS DO IN
HE WERE PREMIER?

Richard says I DON'T THINK IT IS A
PROBLEM.
YOU KNOW YOUR QUESTION
OF PREMIER WAS GOOD ONE
WHICH MIKE HARRIS HAD
VERY LITTLE EXPERIENCE
WHEN HE CAME IN.

Steve says BUT YOU WOULD
SAY --.

Richard says I WOULD SAY IT SHOWS.
AND DAVE PETERSON HAD
NONE AND SO DID BOB
PWRAEU.
SO, LEADERSHIP IS ABOUT
MORE THAN JUST YOUR
EXPERIENCE.
WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO HAVE HELD CABINET
POST IN THIS PROVINCE
WHO WOULD NOT BE VERY
GOOD LEADERS.
WE HAVE HAD A LOT PEOPLE
WHO NEVER HELD A CABINET
POST.
I HAPPEN TO THINK THAT
EXPERIENCE IS IMPORTANT
IN ONE SENSE IS THAT I
THINK PEOPLE WILL SEE IN
THIS CAMPAIGN AND
ALREADY ARE SEEING THE
EXPERIENCE OF BEING IN
POLITICS AND BEING IN
GOVERNMENT HAS WORN ON
DALTON MCGUINTY AND IT
HAS WORN WELL AND HE
MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE AS
CANDIDATE CAMPAIGNING
FOR PUBLIC OFFICE.
BUT TO SAY YOU HAVE TO
MINISTER OF NATURAL
RESOURCES FIRST BEFORE
YOU CAN BE PREMIER, I
DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT
PEOPLE WILL BASE THEIR
VOTES ON AND I DON'T
THINK IT IS SIGNIFICANT.

Steve says I DON'T WANT TO GET
BOGGED INTO A POSITION
ON POLLS YOU KNOW AS
WELL AS ANYBODY THAT ALL
OF THE POLLS OVER LAST
MINI YEARS HAVE SHOWN
THE NDP AND SORT OF BAD
THIRD PLACE AND NOT
REALLY SHOWING MUCH
MOVEMENT IN THEIR VOTE.
HOWEVER THAT'S WHAT
CAMPAIGNS ARE FOR TO
MOVE VOTES.
HAVING SAID THAT OTHER
TWO PARTIES HAVE SO
CLEARLY DEFINED I THINK
IT IS FAIR TO SAY, THAT
IT IS CHOICE BETWEEN
LIBERALS AND TORIES FOR
THE FUTURE OF THE
PROVINCE THAT THE NDP
SEEMS TO BE RELEGATE TO
THE SIDELINES AND I AM
WONDERING A HOW MUCH
DISCUSSION IS THERE IN
NDP QUARTERS ABOUT THAT
FACT OF LIFE AND WHAT DO
YOU DO ABOUT IT?

David says I THINK THAT PARTIES
COME UP WITH A REALLY
GOOD LINK.
POPIST IN THIS PROVINCE
HAS NEVER BEEN NO MORE
OPEN TO HEARING THE LINK
AS TO WHAT GOVERNMENT IS
THERE FOR AND SERVICE WE
NEED IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
AGAIN THE EXPERIENCE OF
THE LAST FEW YEARS OF
WALKERTON AND NOW THE HE
WILL OFER MEAT PLANT AND
PROBLEMS WITHIN
ELECTRICITY.
AND PROBLEM IN OUR
HOSPITAL.
PEOPLE NOW UNDERSTAND
MORE CLEARLY THAN EVER
THAT THEY PAY THEIR TAX
NOT IN THE WAY THAT
ERNIE EVES SAYS YOU PAY
YOUR TAX AND SOMEHOW IT
IS BEING SHOVED INTO
POLITICANS POCKETS.
THE TAX GO TO SERVICE
AND YOUR BUYING THOSE
SERVICES.
AND I THINK THAT HOW HE
IS CAMPAIGN OF PUBLIC
POWER IS MAKING THAT
LINK.
SO I AM REALLY LOOKING
FOR SOME POSSIBILITIES
OF SOME REAL SHIFT IN
PUBLIC OPINION.
I THINK THAT THE WAY
THEY ARE GOING AT IT SO
FAR IS VERY STRONG.
AND THEY HAVE GOT VERY
STRONG MESSAGE AND IT
CAN MOVE -- IT CAN MOVE
ALONG LET'S NOT FORGET
IN THE LAST SEVERAL
ELECTION IN ONTARIO,
THE -- WHAT POLLS HAVE
SHOWN AT THE BEGINNING
HAVE BEEN QUITE DISTINCT
THAN AT THE END.
SO ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.
BUT I SUSPECT THAT
PEOPLE ARE OPEN TO THE
MESSAGE THAT NDP WANTS
TO GIVE IN THIS
ELECTION.

Steve says LET ME TALK
ABOUT ONE THING DALTON
MCGUINTY SAID OTHER DAY
AND THAT WAS HE ACCUSED
THE EAVES GOVERNMENT OF
LURCHING FROM CRISIS TO
CRISIS.
AND HE SAID WE HAD
S.A.R.S AND WEST NILE
VIRUS AND WE HAD TO
WORRIED ABOUT MAD COW
CRISIS AND IT HAPPENED
OUT WEST BUT WE WORRIED
ABOUT IT HERE.
THE HYDRO BLACKOUT AND
NOW WE HAVE GOT TAINTED
MEAT.
NONE OF THESE -- NONE OF
THESE HAS BEEN PROVED TO
HAVE BEEN THE FAULT OF
THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT
OF DAY THE.
AND YET MR. DALTON
MCGUINTY CLEARLY TRYING
TO LEAVE THE
IMPRESSION -- THE MIND
OF THE VOTER THAT IT IS
BECAUSE ERNIE EVES IS IN
POWER THAT THESE THINGS
HAVE HAPPENED.
IS THAT FAIR?

Richard says WELL, I GUESS A
COUPLE THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, I THINK
THERE ARE SOME OF THESE
CRISIS THAT HE HAS
LIPPED WHICH WE KNOW ARE
DIRECTLY LINKED.
IN FACT WE HAVE
TRADITIONAL FINDING IN
WALKERTON THAT THE POLL
SAOEFTS PROVENTIAL
GOVERNMENT CONTRIBUTED
VERY MUCH TO THAT
CRISIS.
WE DON'T KNOW -- WE
DON'T KNOW BUDDY ELMER
YET.
THOUGH WILL QUINN
REQUIRE HOPEFULLY INTO
THAT.
WE MAY WELL FIND OUT
THAT WE CUT BACK IN
FUNDS TO OUR PUBLIC
SERVICES THAT HAS IMPACT
ON THE SERVICE AND
PERHAPS INSPECTION
SERVICE THERE.

Steve says WHAT ABOUT
S.A.R.S AND MAD SKPOEU
HYDRO BLACKOUT?
I MEAN HE IS TRYING TO
MAKE LAUNDRY LIST OF
HORRIBLE THINGS.

Richard says I DON'T THINK YOU CAN
SAY THAT IN THE CASE OF
S.A.R.S OR PROBABLY EVEN
THE CASE OF BLACKOUT
THAT ANY ACTION OF THE
PROVENTIAL GOVERNMENT
TOOK GAVE RISE TO THAT.
I THINK THAT'S FAIR BUT
WHAT I DO THINK YOU ARE
TRITE DO CRITICIZE
PEOPLE'S HANDLING OF
THOSE VARIOUS THINGS.
WE WERE CRITICAL ON THE
PROGRAM OF HOW THE
PREMIER HANDLED IN
PARTICULAR, REACTED TO
S.A.R.S.
AND WHILE THEY SEEM VERY
PROUD OF HIS JOB ON THE
BLACKOUT I REMEMBER HE
WAS LOST THE FIRST
COUPLE OF DAYS AND HIS
CHIEF CONTRIBUTION HE
HAPPENED TO BE ON TV
EVERY DAY WHICH WATT
PROBABLY GOOD FOR HIM.

Steve says WHAT?

Blair says YOU KNOW I MEAN I
THINK PRETTY MERE SHOULD
TREMENDOUS LEADERSHIP
DURING THE BLACKOUT.
AND THE BOTTOM LINE WAS
THAT THE BLACKOUT --
VERY IMPLY RICHARD
BECAUSE, ONTARIO RELIES
ON FOR ITS POWER ABOUT
36 percent IN NUCLEAR ENERGY.
NEW YORK IS ONLY ABOUT
23 STPPT.
THEY ARE ALSO MORE
CLOSELY CONNECTED TO
GRIDS.

Richard says NUCLEAR WAS FIRST UP
IN ONTARIO.
BRUCE WAS UP --.

Blair says EXACTLY WE WERE UP
AND RUNNING.
I THINK THE PREMIER
SHOWED TREMENDOUS
LEADERSHIP HE WAS OUT
THERE CALLING FOR
CONSERVATION AND I THINK
THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO
RESPONDED.

Steve says LET ME ASK A
QUESTION HERE.
AND -- I AM NOT ASKING
TO BE A JERK.
AM ASKING ABOUT
MR. EAVES PUTTING
HIMSELF FORWARD AS THE
CANDIDATE WITH THE MOST
EXPERIENCE WHO IS BEST
ABLE TO LEAD.
AND WHENEVER PEOPLE I
ASK TORIES OKAY GIVE ME
EXAMPLE OF HOW HE LED
AND THEY ALWAYS SAY
HYDRO BLACKOUT HE WAS ON
TV TWICE DAY.
GIVE ME ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

Blair says WELL, LET ME GO BACK
TO ERNIE EVES'S YEARS AS
FINANCE MINISTER.

Steve says NO PREMIER.
GIVE ME EXAMPLE AS
PREMIER.

Blair says WELL, AGAIN, I THINK
THE HYDRO BLACKOUT.

Steve says BESIDES THE
HYDRO BLACKOUT.

Blair says PLUS, I THINK YOU
HAVE SEEN WE HAVE HAD A
FIFTH BALANCED BUDGET.
WE HAVE HAD I ADDITIONAL
TAX CUTS ONTARIO IS,
AGAIN, LEADING THE G-7
IN ECONOMIC GROWTH THIS
YEAR.
AND EDUCATION SPENDING
IS AT RECORD LEVELS AT
15 POINT 3 BILLION DOLLARS.
HEALTH CARE SPENDING AT
28 POINT 1.
I THINK HE HAS CERTAINLY
MOVING OUR PROVINCE
FORWARD.

David says IF YOU GO BACK TO
THOUGH -- I MEAN TAX
CUTS ARE NOT NECESSARILY
SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN
BRAG ABOUT NOW IN THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
THEY GO BACK AGAIN TO --
I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT
THE BLACKOUT WAS THE
ONTARIO GOVERNMENT'S
FAULT.
SO IT IS NOT NECESSARILY
ALWAYS CAUSE AND AFFECT.
BUT SOME OF THE THINGS
THAT HAVE HAPPENED HAVE
MADE PEOPLE THINK WHAT'S
THE ROLE OF THE
GOVERNMENT?
AND WHAT ARE MY TAX
DOLLARS GOING TO AND CAN
WE AFFORD TO MAKE MORE
CUTS OR DO WE NEED TO
START MAKING MORE
INVESTMENTS?
TO STRENGTHEN THIS
PROVINCE AGAIN.
AND I THINK THAT GUYS
ARE OUT OF STEP IN
CONSERVATIVE PARTY.
THE TAX CUTS ARE NO
LONGER IN FAVOUR IN THE
SAME WAY THAT THEY WERE
BEFORE.
AND SOME OF YOUR TAX
CUTS I MEAN A TAX
DEDUCTION THE 700
MILLION DOLLARS THAT YOU
ARE GOING TO CUT FROM
FEEL GET 500 WHICH IS
HARDLY GOING TO MAKE IT
AFFORDABLE TO BUY A HOME,
THAT'S -- YOU COULD PUT
THAT AND YOU COULD BUILD
THOUSANDS OF HOMES IN
THIS PROVINCE FOR PEOPLE
THAT ARE HOMELESS AND ON
THE STREETS IN THE CITY.
IT IS VERY TRUE.
A VERY SMALL COUPLE OF
BUCKS YOU KNOW A WEEK IN
MORTGAGE INTEREST
DEDUCTION WILL HAVE HUGE
IMPACT WHEN YOU SPREAD
IT PROVINCE WIDE.
SECOND THE RAYS WHY
BLAIR DIDN'T ANSWER YOUR
QUESTION THANK DIFFERENT
EXAMPLE BECAUSE THERE
WAS NOT ONE.
ERNIE EVES IS NOT
SOMEONE WHO A GREAT
LEADER.
YES HE WAS ON TV DURING
THE BLACK OUT AND THAT'S
GREAT FOR HIM.
BUT, EVER SINCE HE HAD A
BECOME PREMIER HE HAS
BEEN WYLY MANAGER OF
PUBLIC OPINION AND THE
PROVINCE NOT A LEADER.
HE HAS BACKED TRACKED ON
ALMOST EVERYTHING ON
HYDRO ONE AND ALL OF THE
OTHER QUESTIONS THAT YOU
ASKED HIM ABOUT.
SO HE HAS NOT BEEN
GALVANIZING PUBLIC
OPINION SAYING WE WILL
GO FORWARD TO BRIGHTER
DAY.
HE HAS BEEN TRYING TO
MAKE SURE AND LOOK AT
THE POLLS AND GET TO
ELECTION.

Steve says YOU MENTIONED
THE POLLS.
AND THAT IS DALTON
MCGUINTY I HAVE GONE TO
COUPLE HIS EVENTS SO FAR,
HE IS LOOKING BETTER.
BUT HE DOES SAY HE KEEPS
YOU KNOW THIS WHAT IS
YOUR WEB SITE CHOOSE
CHANGE -- -- YES HE SAYS
THERE IS HUGE APPETITE
FOR CHANGE OUT THERE.
HOWEVER, YOU KNOW THE
TORIES ARE NOT POLLING
IN BOB RAY LOW TEENS.
THEY IN MID 30S OR EARLY
40S.
SO WHERE IS THIS
OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE
FOR CHANGE OUT THERE?
IT IS NOT REFLECTED IN
THE POLLS SO FAR?

Richard says LOOK.
I WILL TELL YOU.
I AGREE WITH THE
PREMISES OF YOUR
QUESTION WHICH THIS IS
ELECTION WHICH PROBABLY
CLOSER THAN SOME OF THE
PUBLIC OPINION POLLS SAY
AND WE WILL BE CLOSE AS
WE GO THROUGH.
IT WILL BE HARD FOUGHT
CAMPAIGN AND I DON'T
THINK NIFT THREE OF US
KNOW WHAT RESULT WILL
BE.
FIRST OF ALL.
SECONDLY, AND IF WE DID
THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING
WRONG WITH DEMOCRACY.
AND BUT, SECONDLY, I
WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS
COMING OUT AND THAT
PUBLIC OPINION RESEARCH
THAT OF THE PARTIES HAVE
DONE AND I HAVE SEEN IN
NEWSPAPERS.
IS A DESIRE FOR CHANGE
IN LEADERSHIP.
WE WILL SEE WHETHER THAT
RESULTS IN DESIRE FOR
CHANGE ON ELECTION DAY.
BUT, THERE IS NO
QUESTION THAT THERE IS
ALMOST 3/4 OF ONTARIO
THINK THERE SHOULD BE A
CHANGE IN THE LEADERSHIP
OF PROVINCE AND THE
ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION
WILL BE GIVEN ON
ELECTION DAY.

Steve says OCTOBER 2.

Blair says I THINK THAT LET'S
LOOK AT WHAT PEOPLE ARE
LOOKING AT WITH
MR. DALTON MCGUINTY AND
I WOULD SAY THAT IF
ONTARIO FAMILIES WANT TO
PAY 1100 DOLLARS A YEAR
MORE IN TAX CUTS SHALL
TAX IF WE HAVE SEEN
ANOTHER CITIZENS WHO
WANTS TO EXTRA 475 DOLLARS IN
PROPERTY TAX AND IF YOU
WANT TO CONTINUE TO HAVE
TEACHER STRIKES.
IF YOU WANT LESS
EDUCATION FUNDING AND
LESS FRONTLINE HEALTH
CARE SERVICE LIKE MRI
MACHINES.
AND -- THAT'S WHAT YOU
ARE DOING RICHARD.

Richard says NO.

Blair says YOU ARE ARE GOING TO
RAYS TAX BY 4 POINT 6 BILLION
DOLLARS.
LOOK AT YOUR OWN WEB
SITE.

Richard says NOBODY CAMPAIGNING
FOR TAX HIKES.
WE ARE SAYING ON YOUR
TAX CORRECT AND I ON
YOUR CORPORATE TAX CUT
WE ARE GOING TO EITHER
NOT IMPLEMENT OR ROLL
THOSE BACK AS THE CASE
MAYBE.
THAT'S WHAT WE ARE
DOING.
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT
ROLLING BACK THE TAX
CUTS THAT YOU DID THREE
YEARS AGO OR FIVE YEARS
AGO OR EIGHT YEARS AGO
AND YOU KNOW THAT AND
PREMIER KNOWS THAT.

David says DIDN'T WE ALREADY
HAVE PROPERTY TAX CREDIT
FOR PEOPLE THAT MODERATE
AND LOW INCOME?
AND THAT IS WAS ACROSS
THE BOARD SO SENIORS
ALREADY QUALIFIED LOW
AND MIDDLE INCOME
SENIORS ALREADY
QUALIFIED FOR THAT.
YOUR TAX CREDIT IS NOT
REALLY GOING TO BENEFIT
LOW INCOME SENIORS.
AND ALLOW THEM TO LIVE
NOR DIGNITY WHAT IT IS
GOING TO DO IS THERE
HELP SENIORS THAT HAVE
REALLY GOOD PENSION AND
DIDN'T QUALIFY FOR THE
TAX CREDIT UNDER THE OLD
SYSTEM.

Blair says THAT'S NOT TRUE.

Richard says TAKE IT OUT OF
EDUCATION AND YOU ARE
PARTY THAT HAS UNTIL
THIS YEAR FROZEN
EDUCATION SPENDING SINCE
95.
YOU ARE TAKING MONEY OUT
OF THE -- THAT'S NOT
TRUE.

David says YOUR SPENDING IS UP
BILLION DOLLARS FROM
1995.
AND OUR ENROLLMENTS ARE
UP WAY MORE THAN THAT
REPRESENTS AS PERCENTAGE
OF INCREASE.
SO DON'T TALK ABOUT YOUR
HUGE INCREASE IN EDUCATION
SPENDING.

Steve says LET ME ASK THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE
QUESTION WHICH THOSE
ISSUES THE PROPERTY TAX
BREAK FOR AND MORTGAGE
DEDUCTION AND CORPORATE
TAX CUTS EVERYBODY KNOWS
THIS BUDGET TWO BILLION
OUT OF THE BALANCE RIGHT
NOW.
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
BRING IN ALL THOSE TAX
CUTS AND BALANCE THE
BOOKS.

Blair says WE HAVE BALANCED THE
BOOKS FIVE YEARS IN A
ROW.
AND I THINK THE WAY WE
HAVE DONE THAT IS BY
ALLOWING PEOPLE TO KEEP
MORE MONEY IN THEIR OWN
POCKETS WHICH IS GOING
TO LEAD THAT CONTINUED
ECONOMIC GROWTH.
AND WHICH INDEED PUSHES
UP REVENUES AND WE HAVE
CUT TAX 225 TIMES SINCE
COMING TO OFFICE.
REVENUES HAVE IN FACT
GONE UP BY 16 BILLION
DOLLARS SINCE WE HAVE
BEEN IN THE OFFICE AND
THAT HAS ALLOWED US TO
MAKE INVESTMENTS IN
AREAS LIKE HEALTH CARE
AND EDUCATION BOTH OF
WHICH ARE A AT RECORD
LEVELS.
I DO WANT TO ADDRESS THE
ISSUE OF 4 POINT 6 BILLION
DOLLAR TAX HIKE IF YOU
DO GO TO WEB SITE AND
LOOK AT HOW YOUR SPRAPL
COSTED.
IT CLEARLY SAYS THERE
THAT IT YOUR RELYING ON
4 POINT 6 BILLION DOLLARS IN
NEW REVENUE.
YOU ARE INCREASE TAXES
ON EMPLOYERS.
ON SENIORS.

Richard says I TOLD YOU WHERE THAT
REVENUE COMES FROM.
IT COMES FROM CANCELLING
THOSE TAX GRABS.
BUT YOU HAVE AVERDICT
THE QUESTION.
YOU KNOW THAT.
AND DAVE BROUGHT UP VERY
GOOD POINT ON EDUCATION
HE KNOWS A FAIR BIT MORE
ABOUT IT THAN YOU DO HE
WAS THE CHAIR.

Steve says HE WAS
EDUCATION MINISTER.
BUT, THE --.

Richard says YES IT IS TRUE YOU
HAVE CUT TAXES AND
BALANCED THE BUDGET.
BUT YOU HAVE NEVER DONE
SO IN CURRENT SET OF
FACT WHERE YOUR OWN
BUDGET YOUR OWN NUMBERS
GIVE YOU A HUGE GAP.
YOU HAVE 2.2 BILLION
DOLLARS IN ASSETS SALES
AND YOU HAVE SOLD ABOUT
300 MILLION DOLLARS
WORTH OF STUFF.
SO YOU HAVE GOT 1 POINT 9
BILLION DOLLARS WHICH
YOU SAID YOU WILL GET IN
THIS FISCAL YEAR.
IT IS OVER HALF OVER.
AND YOU DON'T HAVE ASSET
SALE IN PLACE TO DO
THAT.

Steve says THIS
DISCUSSION WELL MORE
THAN HALF OVER.
AND I WANT TO TALK DAVE
COOK ABOUT AUTO
INSURANCE.
YOUR PARTY IS PLEDGING
TO NATIONALIZE THE AUTO
INSURANCE SYSTEM ONCE
AGAIN.
WE ALL REMEMBER THE
PROMISE IS OF BOB RAY.
YOU WERE PART OF THAT
GOVERNMENT HOW TOUGH IS
FOR HIM TO BE TANG
SERIOUSLY WHEN HE SAYS
WANTS TO NATIONALIZE
AUTO INSURANCE WHEN YOU
MADE THAT PLEDGE ONCE 12
YEARS AGO AND WENT BACK
ON TO?

David says I ACTUALLY HAVE
THOUGHT ABOUT THAT IN
LAST WEEK.
WELL, I MEAN IF YOU TAKE
A LOOK AS WHAT'S
HAPPENED THE LIBERALS
MADE SOME CHANGES TO THE
AUTO INSURANCE PRIVATE
AUTO INSURANCE AND THEY
PRIVATE AUTO INSURANCE
COMPANIES SAID THEY
WOULD REPOND.
WE BACKED OFF PUBLIC
AUTO INSURANCE AND WE
MADE SOME CHANGES WE
SAID AND THEY PRIVATE
SYSTEM SAID WE CAN BRING
IN LOWER RATES WITH
THAT.
THE TORIES MADE MORE
CHAINS YES WE CAN BRING
IN LOWER RATES.
THEY HAVE HAD THEIR
TIME.
WE HAVE TESTED THEM NOW
FOR TEN YEARS.
WITH CHANGES THAT THEY
SAID THEY NEEDED IN
ORDER TO BRING IN
AFFORDABLE RATES AND HAS
NOT WORKED SO NOW THE
PLAN THAT NDP TALKING
ABOUT IS SORT AFTER
BALANCED PLAN WHERE
THERE WOULD STILL BE
COMPETITION FOR SERVICES
OVER AND ABOVE THESE
THAT YOU TO PURCHASE TO
BE ABLE TO DRIVE.
AND TO HAVE A THE PUBLIC
AUTO INSURANCE PLAN THAT
COULD IN FACT LOWER
RATES FOR FOLKS.

Steve says I UNDERSTAND
THAT.

David says IT IS TOUGH SELL WE
HAVE TO GET OUT THERE
AND ARGUE THE POINTS
THAT THE HISTORY SHOWS
THAT THE ONLY OPTION
LEFT IN ONTARIO THAT CAN
WORK PUBLIC AUTO
INSURANCE.

Steve says BUT IS IT
WEIRD TO SAY THIS TIME
WE MEAN IT?

David says I THINK IT IS TOUGH
SELL.
BUT I THINK THAT HIS
ABILITY TO DO THIS HE
HAS EXPERIENCE AND HIS
KNOWLEDGE ESPECIALLY OF
THE MANITOBA PLAN ALLOWS
HIM TO BE THE PERSON
THAT CAN MAKE THAT
POINT.
YOU KNOW WE ARE EIGHT
YEARS AWAY FROM THE TIME
THAT THE NDP THAT WE
FORMEDED THE GOVERNMENT.
THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
AND I THINK IT IS
APPROPRIATE THAT THIS
IDEA BE RESTER IS
CORRECT.ED AND THE LET
PEOPLE PASS JUDGEMENT ON
IT.

Steve says I WOULD LOVE TO LET
THIS DISCUSSION GO
LONGER BUT YOU KNOW WE
ARE WAITING IN BACK
ROOM.
WE WANT TO GET OUT HERE
AND TELL US ABOUT SOME
OF STUFF THEY HAVE
GLEANED OFF THE -- OVER
THE PAST WEEK.
WE WILL DO THIS AGAIN IN
ONE WEEK'S TIME.
THANK YOU EVERYBODY.
NOW, WHAT YOU SAW ON
THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THIS
PAST WEEK WAS NOT
NECESSARILY WHAT WAS
SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN TPFPL.
FOR A LOOK AT WHAT WAS
GOING ON IN SOME OF
THOSE FRANTIC CAMPAIGN
HEADQUARTERS, OUR BACK
ROOM 411 TEAM.
Music plays and a slate appear of Queen’s Park with a title that reads "Backroom 411." Clips of parliament appear on screen with Susanna Kelley and Robert Fisher walking down a hallway. Susanna is in her forties, has shoulder-length straight blond hair, and wears a pink blazer and black pant suit. Robert is in his forties, has short, side-parted, brown hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a black suit, white shirt, and black tie.

The premier appears on screen in an interview with a caption that reads "June 2003."

The premier says YOU GO BACK TO THE
ISSUE OF WHICH
GOVERNMENT REALLY HAS
THE CONSTITUTIONAL
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE
LEGALIZATION OF
MARRIAGES AND I BELIEVE
COURTS HAVE RULED
PREVIOUSLY THAT IS
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Now another interview of the premier appears on screen with a caption that reads "July 2003."

The premier says I THINK IF PEOPLE
DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO
CALL THEMSELVES SPOUSES,
NOT FOR ME, TO INTERFERE
WITH THAT.

Now another interview of the premier appears on screen with a caption that reads "August 2003."

The premier says I WENT TO SUNDAY
SCHOOL EVERY SUNDAY.
I BECAME ALTAR BOY AND
WENT CHURCH.
WHEN I WAS ON DUTY AS
ALTAR BOY AND THAT WAS
NOT UNCOMMON AND I
PERSONALLY BELIEVE IN
HETEROSEXUALL MARRIAGES.
DIRT MARRIAGES.

Back in the studio, Steve sits with Susanna and Robert.

Steve says NOW YES THE POLITICS
OF SEX.
IT WAS OUT THERE.
IT IS ONE OF THOSE WEDGE
ISSUES THAT HAS BEEN
PRESENT ON THIS CAMPAIGN
AND IN PAST CAMPAIGNS:
WELCOME BACK.
WE ARE GOING TALK ABOUT
THAT AND OTHER THINGS.
DURING THIS SESSION OF
BACK ROOM 411.
GET US STARTED FIRST NEW
DAYS OF THE CAMPAIGN.

Robert says IMPRESSION I THINK
DALTON MCGUINTY MUCH
BETTER.
I WOULD AGREE WITH
RICHARD.
IT HAS NO INFLUENCE ON
MY OPINIONS.
I THINK HE LOOKS BETTER
SO FAR.
HE HAS TO SUSTAIN THE
PERFORMANCE.
I WOULD HAVE TO SAY
COMPARED BACK TO 999 HE
LOOKS BETTER AND MORE
CONFIDENT MORE RELAXED.
AND HAMPTON I THINK IS
BETTER.
HE HAS RUN PRETTY SOLID
START TO THE CAMPAIGN.
ERNIE EVES HAS HAD HIS
PROBLEMS.
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME --
TRY TO GET TROOPS GEARED
UP AND GET THEM EXCITED
GET THE PEOPLE IN THE
STANDS AND GET A CLEAR
MESSAGE AND AS YOU
POINTED OUT IN YOUR
INTERVIEW WHAT IS
MESSAGE AND WHO GOING TO
DELIVER IT.
WHICH I AOES AOES WILL
STAND UP AND WILL THEY
CHANGES FROM ISSUE TO
ISSUE.

Steve says THAT CHANGES
THE KEY ISSUE THAT
DALTON MCGUINTY LIBERALS
ARE RUNNING ON.
CHOOSE CHANGE IS THEIR
ADDRESS.

Susanna says WELL, I THINK IT
IS -- I THINK IT IS
ACTUALLY BEEN A QUITE
MERCKY BEGINNING.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY A
MINUTE NDP HAS GOT THEIR
MESSAGE OUT PARTICULARLY
WELL THIS WEEK.
ACTUALLY.
I THINK THE POLLING
SHOWS THAT THERE IS A
BIG OPPORTUNITY FOR THE
LIBERALS.
THERE IS A MOOD OUT
THERE FOR CHANGE.
ALL OF THE POLLING SHOWS
THAT.
BUT, I DON'T SEE A CLEAR
MESSAGE OUT THERE FROM
THE LIBERALS.
OR FROM THE TORIES.
TO TELL OUTTRUTH.
I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT
ALL OF THEIR CAMPAIGN
PLATFORMS THEY ARE VERY
DENSE.
THEY ARE CHUCKED FULL OF
THE POLICIES AND THERE
IS LOTS OF CHOOSE FROM
BUT WHERE ARE THE TWO OR
THREE BULLET POLICIES
THAT THE TWO OR THREE
MESSAGES FROM THE
LIBERALS THAT THEY NEED
TO PUT OUT THERE TO WIN
THE ELECTION?
AND I MUST SAY THIS
REMINDS ME OF 95 AND 99
WHEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE A
CLEAR MESSAGE OUT THERE
EITHER.
NOW THIS MAY CHANGE IN
THE NEXT WEEK WHEN THE
ADS START COMING OUT
TORIES I THINK IF
ANYBODY WAS MESSING UP
THEIR MESSAGE IT WAS THE
PREMIER HIMSELF.
QUITE FRANKLY.
THIS WEEK.

Steve says WE ARE TALK
ABOUT THAT.
BUT IF THE POLLS SHOW,
AS THEY FOR A LONG TIME,
THAT 6 OUT OF THE TEN
ONTARIANS WANT CHANGE IN
GOVERNMENT MAYBE ALL YOU
NEED TO DO FOR 31 DAYS
AND SAY, CHANGE, CHANGE,
IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE.

Robert says BUT FOR 28 DAYS YOU CAN
ALSO SAY HE IS NOT READY
TO GIVE EARN.
I MEAN YOU CAN FIGHT IT
BACK AND FOR THE.
YOU KNOW I AM NOT SO
SURE STEVE WHEN YOU
TAOEURT VINCE AND TALK
TO PEOPLE YOU KNOW HE
CAN HERE IN AND A THEY
ARE OBSESS ISED WITH
LEADERSHIP ISSUE I THINK
THEY WANTS SCHOOLS
OPERATE AND PREPARE BACK
THIS STKPAUL THEY FIND
OUT JOHNNIE COMES HOME
HE HAS 40 KIDS IN HIS
GLASS DOUBLE WHAT IT IS
SUPPOSED TO BE I THINK
THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT
THAT.
I THINK TRYING GET AUNT
MARRY INTO A HOSPITAL OR
INTO A HOSPITAL BED YOU
KNOW INSTEAD OF WAITING
IN HALLWAY THOSE ARE
ISSUES.
SO PREMIER CAN TALK
ABOUT LEADERSHIP.
BUT I THINK THERE IS IS
OTHER THINGS TKHAOE BE
DOING TO DEAL WITH IN
THIS CAMPAIGN.
AAGREE THERE HAS GOT TO
BE STRAIGHT-UP MESSAGE
AND DALTON MCGUINTY AND
HAMPTON WILL DO THE SAME
THING AS WELL.

Steve says LET'S TALK ABOUT HAMPTON
FOR A SECOND.
WE TALKED TO DAVE COOK
ABOUT THE AUTO INSURANCE
RENAL I WILL STKAEUZING
AUTO TKURB PUBLIC AUTO
IS KEY PART OF THEIR
PLATFORM.
HOW TOUGH OF A SELL IS
THAT?

Susanna says WELL, ACTUALLY, I
THINK IT IS A ISSUE THAT
YOU COULD SEE EXPLODE
OVER NEXT COUPLE OF
WEEKS.
AND REALLY CATCH ON
FIRE.
DURING THE CAMPAIGN.
WE HAVE SEEN THAT IN A
FEW PROVENTIAL ELECTION
CAMPAIGNS.
AND OTHER PROVINCE.
AND THE NDP PROBABLY
DOES HAVE THE STRONGEST
AND CLEAREST POSITION ON
IT.
NOW THEY DO HAVE THEIR
HISTORY OF YOU KNOW THEY
PROMISED ONCE BEFORE AND
DIDN'T DELIVER IT.
BUT AS ONE NEW
DEMOCRATIC SAID TO ME
TODAY, THAT WAS THEN AND
THIS IS NOW.

Steve says THAT'S RIGHT.
WELL IN FACT, WERE YOU
NOT --.

Robert says I WAS HONEY HAEURB
HARBOUR MASSACRE WHEN
THE ME MERE OF THE DAY
BOB RAY CAME OUT WITH
FRANCIS AND SAID IT WILL
COST JOBS TOO EXPENSIVE
CAN'T DO IT.
AND THEN YOU LOOK IN
BACK ROW LOOK AT SOME
NEW DEMOCRATICS I THINK
HAMPTON MIGHT HAVE BEEN
ONE OF THEM WITH LONG
FACE WANTING TO PURSUE
IT.
AT THE TIME I THINK RAY
MADE GOOD CASE.
NOW, I THINK WITH RATES
GOING UP I JUST GOT BACK
FROM NEWFOUNDLAND AND
TKPWOGS BIG ISSUE THERE
WHEN ROGER CRIME CALLS
THE ELECTION.
THERE IS GOVERNMENT OUT
THERE THAT JUST START TO
SHAKE ABOUT THE AUTO
INSURANCE INDUSTRY THEY
KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO
BERNHARD LORD AND ALMOST
REPEATED IN NOVA SCOTIA.
COULD HAPPEN TKPWHRFPLT
THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS
ISSUE.

Susanna says THIS IS A SORT OF
POCKET BOCKISH THAT
EVERYBODY CAN RELATE TO,
EVERYBODY NOTICE.
BUYING YOU KNOW 20 percent RATE
HIKE.
AND PEOPLE REALLY VOTE
WITH THEIR POCKET BOOKS.

Robert says THEY WERE TALKING
ABOUT HYDRO.
BUT, WHAT ABOUT MY AUTO
INSURANCE?
AND I YOU KNOW I THINK
THE TORIES HAVE GOT
SOMETHING TO BE NERVOUS
ABOUT.

Steve says LET'S TALK
ABOUT DALTON MCGUINTY.
I WENT TO ONE OF HIS
EVENTS LAST NIGHT.
THERE WAS A OPEN HOUSE
FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
CAME BY.
AND ANY I AM WAY DALTON
MCGUINTY SHOWED UP AND
HE GAVE FRANK LITER RIFF
I CAN SPEECH.
I THOUGHT IT WAS BEST I
HAD EVER SEEN HIM.
YOU KNOW 1999 WAS PRETTY
GOOD DRY FOR YOU HIM.
HE HRAERPBD LOT.
WOULD YOU SAY THAT'S --
HOW MUCH IMPROVED FROM
THEN TO KNOW?

Robert says WELL, I MEAN I THINK
SUBSTANTIALLY IMPROVED.
AND YOU KNOW I THINK THE
REALITY IS THAT BLAIR
MAY HAVE ALLUDED TO
EARLIER AND THE PANEL
CERTAINLY DID AS WELL.
MIKE MARIS HAS THREE
ELECTION.
09 WAS CAMPAIGN FROM
HELL.
95, HE IS PREMIER.
I REMEMBER TORY SAYING
AFTER 90 THAT'S IT
HARRIS GETS NO OTHER
CRACK AT IT.
AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE
SAID WAIT A MINUTE THIS
GUYS NEEDS ANOTHER
CAMPAIGN.
HE CAN SHOW YOU WHAT HE
CAN DO.
I THINK ANY LEAD LER
LEARN IT IS ONE THING TO
SIT ON SIDELINES BUT
SUDDENLY YOU ARE IN BUS
AND IN SPOTLIGHT AND YOU
GOT TO PERFORM.
DALTON MCGUINTY DON'T
IT.
CAUCUS TOLD HIM THAT HE
LEARNED FROM HIS
MISTAKES AND PEOPLE GOT
HIM DEED AND SO FAR HE
HAS LOOKED A HEBL OF A
LOT BETTER.

Steve says LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF
THE BACK ROOM FOLKS THAT
YOU HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT
WITH OVER PAST FEW DAYS.
WHO SPEND WHAT MONTHS
GETTING READY FOR THE OF
WREUTS TO BE DROPPED AND
CANDIDATES OUT.
SCRIPT TO BE FOLLOWED TO
THE LETTER.
AND THEN, DOES NOT QUITE
HAPPEN THAT WAY.
GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES.

Susanna says I THINK WE SAW BIG
EXAMPLE OF THIS WEEK AND
THAT'S TRUE.
CAMPAIGN TEAMS SCHEDULE
A DAY MINUTE.
BY MINUTE.
AND EVERYTHING IS
PLANNED.
RIGHT DOWN TO EVERY WORD
ALMOST THAT THE LEADER
WILL SAY.
AND THIS WAS THE KAOEUS
CASE THIS WEEK WHEN THE
TORIES DID A BIG DAY ON
I THINK IT WAS
EDUCATION.
AT THE END OF THE DAY,
THE PREMIER IN A UNDER A
LOT OF PRESSURE FROM
REPORTERS, SUDDENLY SAID
WELL PERSONALLY, YES, I
WOULD FAVOUR THE DEATH
PENALTY IN THE CASE OF
CHILDREN OR POLICE BEING
MURDERED.
WELL, GUESS WHAT?
YOU SAW A LOT OF COLUMNS
SAYING WELL, THIS WAS A
DELIBERATE STRATEGY.
OF THE TORIES MOVING
INTO THE SOCIAL
CONSERVATIVEISM TO GET
MORE VOTES.
IT WAS NOT.
IT WAS THE PREMIER
FREE-LANCING.
IT WAS A MISTAKE.

Steve says WHO DO YOU
KNOW THAT.
I HAVE MULTIPLE SOURCE
CONFIRMED THAT TO ME.

Steve says YOU TALK TO
PEOPLE IN THE BACK ROOMS
WHO SAID ERNIE EVES WAS
FREE-LANCING THIS WAS
NOT A PRE-PLANNED EFFORT
ON THE BEHALF OF BEHIND
THE SCENES PEOPLE?

Susanna says YES.
AND THIS HAS CAMPAIGN
TEAMS TEARING OUT THEIR
HAIR.
THAT WAS NOT THE MESSAGE
PREMIER AS ONE SAID TO
ME.
HE WAS JUST A TAD OFF
MESSAGE.

Robert says EVEN STEVE WHEN IT IS
NOT FREE-LANCING
SOMETHING YOU KNOW TAKE
A LOOK AT THE DAY FOR
EXAMPLE THIS MORTGAGE
DEDUCTION DAY IN TORY
CAMPAIGN SO THE PREMIER
SAID EVE MAKES HIS
ANNOUNCEMENT TO OKAY
FIRST FROM LOCAL
REPORTERS TAKING A NOTE
FROM BILL DAVIS ABOUT
ALWAYS TALKED TO LOCAL
REPORTERS NOT STEVE
PAIKEN AND ROBERT FISHER
TALK TO THE GUY FROM
LOCAL COMMUNITY PAPER.
AND HE SAYS, WHAT ABOUT
ELMER MEAT PRODUCT.
SUDDENLY NOBODY
INTERESTED IN MORTGAGE
AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO
TALK ABOUT AND THAT
EVERYBODY WANTS TO TALK
ABOUT DALTON MCGUINTY
SAYING WE HAVE TO PUBLIC
INQUIRY.
HAMPTON CHIMES AND ALL
OF A SUDDEN THE MORTGAGE
WAS RAISED BUT WHERE IT
IS IT?

Susanna says BY THE WAY THE
PREMIER COMMENTS ON SAME
SEX BENEFITS AND --
MARRIAGE AND YOU KNOW I
WAS ALTAR BOY IN THE
CHURCH THAT HELPED ME
FORM MY OPINION THAT
MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A
MAN A WOMAN TOTALLY
UNSCRIPTED.
NOT A MOVE INTO THE
SOCIAL O CONSERVATIVISM.
YOU KNOW A STRATEGIC
SENSE.
THE PREMIER WAS
FREE-LANCING ON THAT,
TOO.

Steve says WHAT I FIND
INTERESTING ABOUT THIS
YOU HAVE CONFIRMED FROM
SOURCES BEHIND THE
SCENES, THAT HE WAS OUT
THERE DOING HIS OWN
THING AND THAT WAS NOT
THE MESSAGE.
PEOPLE WATCHING TV AND
NEWS THAT NIGHT WILL NOT
BELIEVE IT.
THEY WILL THINK
DELIBERATE EFFORT.
I WILL TELL YOU LAST
NIGHT HI LIB KWHRAL
PEOPLE SAYING HE IS
DOING THIS ON PURPOSE.
IT IS ALL PART OF IT.
YOU SAY IT IS NOT SO.

Susanna says THIS IS -- BECAUSE
POLITICS QUITE OFTEN IS
MESSES UP.
JUST LIKE EVERYTHING
ELSE.
BUT WE ARE ALSO CYNICAL
WE THINK IT MUST BE
APPLY.

Robert says MIKE HARRICANA REST
WAS ALWAYS ON MESSAGE.
HE WAS ALWAYS THERE.
THE PROBLEM FROM THE
VERY BEGINNING FOR ERNIE
EVES HAS BEEN WELL HE
WILL NOT ANSWER THAT
QUESTION BUT LET ME TELL
YOU ABOUT THIS POLICY
AND THAT'S WHY PEOPLE
LIKE OTHERS IN CAMPAIGN
HAVE GOT GRAY HAIR THEY
DON'T KNOW WHERE HE IS
GOING TO BE FROM MINUTE
TO MINUTE.
ON ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE.

Steve says I SAW DE BE
TODAY AND SHE DOES NOT
HAVE ANY GRAY HAIR.

Robert says I WILL SPEAK TO HER
HUSBAND.
AND GET THAT
STRAIGHTENED OUT.

Steve says TELL ME -- THE
KWAOE KEY QUESTION IN
THIS CAMPAIGN FOR THOSE
OF HOUSE ARE FOLLOW THE
HISTORY OF IS ERNIE EVES
YOU KNOW REPEAT MISTAKES
OF MILLER AND BECOME A
GUY WHO COULDN'T WIN HIS
OWN MANDATE OR MORE LIKE
BILL DAVIS?

Robert says I THOUGHT FROM THE
VERY BEGINNING STEVE
THIS MIGHT BE REPLAY OF
85.
CUP OF INCIDENTS THIS
WEEK.
MR. EAVES GOES TO
LONDON.
GOES TO A HAUL FOR
MEETING.
AND IN 1999 SAME HALL
ABOUT THE SAME TIME OF
THE CAMPAIGN THE PLACE
WAS PACKED TO RAFTERS.
ABOUT 100 PEOPLE SHOW UP
FOR ERNIE EAVES ALSO TOO
I FIND A LOT OF TORIES
KIND OF SITTING ON THEIR
HANDS.
I WILL TELL OUTSAME
THING TO HAPPENED TO
FRANK MILLER.
AND HE CAME BACK WITH
MINORITY GOVERNMENT
EVENTUALLY WAS TOSSED
OUT.
I THINK THERE IS CHANCE
THAT HISTORY CAN REPEAT.

Susanna says I DO HEAR SOME TORIES
IN FACT ADMITTING THAT
THERE SORT OF MOOD OUT
THERE THEY ARE NERVOUS
ABOUT.
I DON'T SEE THEM RUNNING
FRONT RUNNERS CAMPAIGN
THIS WEEK.
I SEE THEM RUNNING A
CLASSIC SORT OF WE ARE
COMING FROM BEHIND WE
ARE TAKING RISK.
WE ARE GETTING PREMIER
OUT THERE A LOT.
SENDING HIM TO BACK OF
THE PLANE TO TALK TO
REPORTERS.
YOU DON'T THAT WHEN YOU
ARE RUNNING
FRONT-RUNNERS CAMPAIGN.
SO I THINK THERE SOME
NERVOUSNESS OUT THERE.

Steve says IN OUR LAST
MINUTE.
THERE ARE GOING TO BE
PUBLIC OPINION POLLS IN
PAPER FIRST ONES SINCE
CAMPAIGN STARTED.
LIBERALS DOWN A BIT.
MAYBE MID O 40S.
TORIES UP BIT AND NDP,
FROZEN AT 12.
ROBERT WHAT DO YOU MAKE
OF IT.

Robert says THAT'S BAD NEWS THEY
NEED TO CENTRE NOR NDP
VOTES OUT THERE.
THE -- I THINK TORT REES
STRATEGY SEEMS TO BE
CATCHING ON.
YOU KNOW IF THEY ARE
NARROWING THE GAP THE
MESSAGE ABOUT DALTON
MCGUINTY NOT RUNNING FOR
PRIME TIME THEY WILL
TAKE A LOOK AT THE POLLS
AND DECIDE HOW THE
CAMPAIGN SHOULD GO.
MY GUESS IS BY MONDAY
MORNING IT WILL BE MUCH
TESTIFYER ATTACKS ON
DALTON MCGUINTY.

Susanna says WELL EARLY DAYS, YET WE
ARE VERY EARLY DAYS YET.
WE HAVE THE DEBATE STILL
TO GO WE HAVE THE ADS
STILL TO COUNT NEXT
WEEK.
WHICH SHOULD START TO
DEFINING THE ISSUE A LOT
BETTER.
A WEEK IS LIFETIME IN
POLITICS AND WE HAVE GOT
FOUR TO GO.

Susanna says THAT'S EXCELLENT PIECE
OF ADVICE.
A WEEK LIFETIME IN
POLITICS.
AND WE GOT FOUR TO GO.
OKAY.
WE WILL SEE YOU ONCE
AGAIN -- I HOPE MANY
TIMES ACTUALLY DURING
THIS ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

Robert says AND I WILL GET RIGHT
MEMO ON THE SUIT.

Steve says I DIDN'T GET THE MEMO
ON THE PINK SUIT.
THAT WILL BE NEXT TIME.
MY THANKS TO YOU TWO.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Steve says AND THAT'S
"FOURTH READING" ANOTHER
THIS WEEK REMINDER
CHOOSE TVO FOR THE
ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
WHICH WILL BE BEST AND
MOST INTERESTING
COVERAGE ON THE DIAL.
CHECK OUT STUDIO TWO.
AND "FOURTH READING" ON
SUNDAY AFTER NOONS IF
YOU DO YOU WILL BE READY
TO MAKE INFORMED CHOICE
ON ELECTION DAY.
THURSDAY OCTOBER 2ND.
I AM STEVE PAIKEN.
NUMBER NEXT SUNDAY.
THANK YOU.

- UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY,
THANK YOU.
Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch, Meredith Martin.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2003, The Ontario Educational
Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Watch: Ontario Election Campaign - Week One