Transcript: The Road Ahead | May 18, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.

Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

A clip shows a gavel banging against a desk, and MPPs voting in the Legislature.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON
"FOURTH READING,"
REVVING UP THE
POLITICAL ENGINES.
ERNIE EVES UNVEILS THE
TORIES ELECTION
PLATFORM.

Steve Paikin sits in the studio with 4 guests.

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven and with short curly brown hair. He wears glasses, a black suit, pale blue shirt and a black sweater.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY
I AM STEVE PAIKIN
WELCOME TO 4TH READING
ERNIE EAVES HAS UNVEILED
THE PLATFORM HIS PARTY
WILL RUN ON.
SELF A DESCRIBED FISCAL
CONSERVATIVE WITH A SOCIAL
CONSCIOUS SAYS HIS
PARTY WOULD BAN TEACHER
STRIKES REQUIRE
IMMIGRANTS TO ONTARIO
TO BE TESTED FOR
SKILLS THE PROVINCE
NEEDS AND FORCE THE HOMELESS
OFF THE STREETS USING
POLICE IF NECESSARY
DURING FRIGID WEATHER.
THE POLICIES ARE
CONTAINED IN 60 PAGE
DOCUMENT THE PCs ARE
CALLING THE ROAD AHEAD.
EVES HAS ALSO CALLED
FOR A NEW MORTGAGE
INTEREST TAX DEDUCTION.

A clip rolls. Eves stands behind a lectern and speaks for a small audience.

He’s in his mid-fifties, clean-shaven and with short graying hair neatly combed back. He wears a blue suit and a pale blue shirt.

He says TO HELP MORE ONTARIO
FAMILIES, REALIZE THE
DREAM OF OWNING THE --
THEIR OWN HOME WE WILL
ALLOW ALL HOMEOWNERS TO
DEDUCT MORTGAGE INTEREST
COSTS FROM THEIR INCOME.

The audience applauds.

Steve reads the PC economic platform highlights.

Steve says OKAY ONCE FULLY
LOADED.
THAT TAX DEDUCTION FOR
MORTGAGE INTEREST WILL
BE UP TO ONLY 500
DOLLARS A YEAR.
IT IS NOT INTEREST ON
THE HOME MORTGAGE.
LET'S TIB ON.
OTHER HIGHLIGHTS TORIES
HAVE MORE IN THE TAX
DEPARTMENT.
MUNICIPALITIES WILL NOT
BE ALLOWED TO HIKE LOCAL
TAKES WITHOUT A REFERENDUM.
HOWEVER, THEY WILL BE ALLOWED
TO IMPOSE NEW TAXES ON
HOTELS AND MOTEL ROOMS,
GASOLINE AND PARKING.
THE PLATFORM CALLS FOR
700 MILLION DOLLARS ON WHAT
THE CONSERVATIVES ALWAYS CALLS
"SAVINGS" AND WITH THE OPPOSITION
ALWAYS CALLS "SPENDING CUTS."
OKAY.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT
THESE AND LATER ON THE
PROGRAM SOME OTHER PCs
PLATFORM MEASURES WITH
ONE MAN GOING TO BE
RUNNING ON ALL OF THE
IDEAS.
DAVID YOUNG MINISTER OF
MUNICIPAL FAIRS AND
HOUSING PC MPP.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK.
NICE TO SEE YOU
AGAIN.
YOU KNOW OUR QUEEN'S
PARK GAUGE.
STARTING WITH ROBERT
MAHONEY.
AND BLAIR -- THERE IS
RUTH GRIER.
AND BLAIR MCCREDIE.
PRESIDENT OF THE ONTARIO
PC PARTY.
LET'S START WITH THE ONE
THING EVERYBODY GOING TO
BE TALKING ABOUT
PRESUMABLY COMING OUT OF THIS
AND THAT'S MORTGAGE
INTEREST DEDUCTION.
I UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS
GOOD POLITICS.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT
GOOD POLICY REASONS ARE
FOR THIS?

A caption reads "David Young. Municipal Affairs and Housing."

David is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short wavy brown hair. He wears a black suit and white shirt.

He says WE ARE THERE TO TRY
TO SUPPORT FAMILIES,
FAMILIES WHO HAVE
MORTGAGES.
IT IS THE SOFT THING I
HEAR AT THE DOOR.
I HEAR IT AT THE AT
HOMES AND DOOR OF
APARTMENTS IN MY RIDING
PEOPLE WANT NEED SOME
ASSISTANCE THEY NODE IT
IS WORKS IT HAS WORKED
IN THE UNITED STATES FOR
MEAN YEARS.
AND QUITE FRANKLY WE
HAVE RESPONDED TO WHAT
WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE
PEOPLE OF THIS PROVINCE.

Steve says BUT EVEN FULLY
LOADED SEVERE YEARS FROM
NOW IT IS GOING TO BE
MAXIMUM OF 500 DOLLARS
THAT'S -- WELL I SHOULD
ASK YOU.
DO YOU THINK THAT WILL
HELP PEOPLE?

David says 500 DOLLARS IS 500.
IT NOT ONLY HELP SOME
PEOPLE IT WILL HELP
PEOPLE OBTAIN HOMES WHAT
WE HAVE DONE OVER LAST
EIGHT YEARS WE HAVE CUT
TAX STIMULATE THE
ECONOMY AND CUT TAKES TO
GET MEN AND WOMEN ACROSS
THAT I VINCE SOME
BREATHING ROOM AND
OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND
MONEY THAT'S WANT TO
SPEND MONEY NOT SIMPLY
SHIP IT OFF TO THE
GOVERNMENT AS PART OF
TAXES TO BE SPEND
REQUIRE RESPONSIBLY WE
HAVE MADE SOME TOUGH
DECISIONS.
WE HAVE REBUILT THIS
ECONOMY.
WE NOW HAVE THE BENT
ECONOMY -- NOT ONLY IN THE
COUNTRY BUT ARGUABLY IN
THE G-7.
AND WE HAVE DONE THAT
BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY WE
HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE
DIFFICULT DECISION.

Steve says CAN YOU REALLY
DO THIS?
EVERYBODY AROUND THIS
TABLE REMEMBERS 1979
WHEN JOE CLARK, THE
CONSERVATIVE PRIME
MINISTER OF THE DAY
PREPARED THIS GOT THE
DEFEATED TOO EARLY AND
EVERYBODY TOLD HIM IT
WOULD BE TOO EXPENSIVE
ANYWAYS.
CAN YOU DO THIS?

David says WE HAVE COST IT
OUT AND YOU WILL NOTE
THAT IT IS NOT FOR EVERY
DOLLAR ON A MORTGAGE.
IT IS FOR SIGNIFICANT
PART OF THE MOST
PEOPLE'S MORTGAGES.
BUT, IT IS QUITE
AFFORDABLE AND QUITE
FRANKLY OUR PLATFORM AS
WAS THE CASE WITH THE
PREVIOUS PLATFORM AND
PLATFORM BEFORE THAT,
HAS EVERY DOLLAR COST
OUT AND BENEFITS THAT
MORTGAGE HOLDERS GOING
TO DERIVE ARE BENEFITS
THAT I THINK PROBABLY
WILL CREATE MORE DOLLARS
MORE WEALTH BUT WE HAVE
TAKEN VERY CONSERVATIVE
VIEW.
WHEN WE PUT THIS
PLATFORM TOGETHER, WE
SAID LOOK WE CAN ACHIEVE
THIS AMOUNT OF SAVINGS
AND THIS CASE IT IS
ABOUT -- IT IS ABOUT
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
WE CAN ACHIEVE THIS
SAVINGS THROUGH DURING
WHAT WE HAVE DONE OVER
LAST NUMBER OF YEARS.
AND THAT'S ACHIEVING
EFFICIENCIES IN
GOVERNMENT.
AND WE ARE GOING PASS
THOSE SAVINGS ONTO THE
PEOPLE OF THIS PROVINCE.

Steve says OKAY.
RICHARD I WANT TO GET
POLITICAL ANALYSIS OF
THIS THING.
BECAUSE, THIS -- YOU
HEAR IT EVERYWHERE THIS
IS REAL NEW KIND OF SEXY
POTENTIAL TAX CUT THAT
CONSERVATIVE ARE TRYING
TO RIDE ON.
HAVING SAID THAT, IT IS
500 BUCKS MAX AT THE END
THE DATE OF.
SO DO SOME OF THE MATH
AND DO SOME THE
POLITICAL ANALYSIS FOR
ME AND TELL ME WHAT YOU
SEE.

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard is in his early fifties, clean-shaven and with short wavy gray hair. He wears a black suit, white shirt and patterned black and white tie.

He says FIRST OF ALL LET'S
START WITH POLITICS AND
THEN WE WILL MOVE INTO
THE MATH ON THE POLITICS
SIDE FOR SURE I MEAN,
THERE IS LOT OF US WHO
HAVE MORTGAGES AND
ALMOST YOU WILL OF US
WOULD LOVE TO DEDUCT
SOME OF THE COST OF THE
PAYMENT OF THOSE
MORTGAGES.
NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
SO, IN THAT SENSE, AS
GIVING CANDY OUT TO
PEOPLE BE THERE VERY
APPEALING.
COUPLE OF THINGS TO
POINT OUT.
FIRST OF ALL AS YOU
POINTED OUT, THE -- THE
LIMITED DEDUCTION THAT
IT IS WOULDN'T BE FULL
AFFECT UNTIL 2010.
SECONDLY YOUR FIRST --
IT WOULDN'T EVEN FIRST
QUALIFY UNTIL TWO YEARS
FROM NOW AND AT THAT
POINT THERE BE ABOUT 8
BUCKS A MONTH.
OKAY.
8 DOLLARS A MONTH WILL
NOT DO DAVID YOUNG SAYS.
8 DOLLARS WILL NOT HELP NEW
PEOPLE GET HOMES.
THEY MIGHT AS WELL TAKE
BACK THE EMPTIES AT THE
ENDED MONTH.

Steve says LET'S GET SOME
FEEDBACK.

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister"

Ruth is in her sixties, with short straight white hair. She wears glasses, a coral turtleneck sweater, a beige blazer and a golden pin.

She says FIRST ALL THIS IS NOT
GOVERNMENT POLICY THIS
SEE LEGS PLATFORM AND
THEY GET REELECTED TO DO
ANY OF THE THINGS WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT.
AS ELECTION PLATFORM AS
WHOLE IT IS VERY MUCH A
ROLLED BACK TO COMMON
SENSE REVOLUTION.
AND TRYING TO SHORE UP
THE TRADITIONAL TORY
BASE.
AND THAT'S WHY I THINK
SOME THING FOR
HOMEOWNERS AND MORTGAGE
INTEREST DESIGN TO
ATTRACT THOSE PEOPLE WHO
ARE KNOWN TO SUPPORT THE
CONSERVATIVE.
AS OPPOSED TO FOR
EXAMPLE TENANTS WHO HAVE
HAD YOU KNOW CUTS IN --
INCREASES IN RENTS AND
ELIMINATION OF THE RENT
CONTROL.
AND HUGE INCREASES
HOUSING COST BUT THEY
ARE NOT OF INTEREST TO
THIS PARTICULAR PARTY.
AND SO THERE IS NOTHING
IN THERE FOR TENANTS IT
IS ONLY FOR HOMEOWNERS.

Steve says LET ME PUT
ARGUMENT THAT HE IS
PUTTING FORWARD TO YOU
AND THAT'S SOME PEOPLE
BELIEVE AFTER EIGHT
YEARS OF CONSERVATIVE
RULE, THAT 8 DOLLARS A MONTH
SAVINGS WOULD BE BETTER
SPENT BY THE GOVERNMENT
ON HEALTH EDUCATION
WHATEVER RATHER THAN
SITTING IN MY POCKET.
THAT'S THE CHOICE
APPARENTLY BEING MADE BY
OFFERING THIS POLICY
RIGHT NOW.
IS THAT PRETTY ACCURATELY
CONVEYED THE WAY IT IS?

The caption changes to "Blair McCreadie. President, Ontario PC Party."

Blair is in his late thirties, clean-shaven and with short wavy graying hair. He wears a gray suit, white shirt and a striped silver tie.

He says I DON'T THINK THAT'S
FAIR.
BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAVE
TO LOOK BACK TO WHERE
THIS GOVERNMENT STARTED
FROM IN 1995 AND IN FACT
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TAX
CUTS THAT HAVE BEEN
IMPLEMENTED THE AVERAGE ONTARIO
FAMILY SAVING ABOUT
2500 DOLLARS A YEAR
ALREADY IN PROVINCIAL
INCOME TAX.
THE PLATFORM ALSO GIVES
SENIORS A PROPERTY TAX
BREAK OF 475 DOLLARS A
YEAR.
AND THERE IS ANOTHER
CARE GIVER TAX CREDIT
ALSO ON THE PLAN THAT
WILL MEAN ANOTHER 300 DOLLARS.

Richard says SOUL -- HIS
QUESTION WAS ALL OF THAT
IS FINE.
STEVE'S QUESTION WAS,
WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITY?
WHERE DO YOU PUT THE 8
BUCKS A MONTH IN HEALTH
CARE EDUCATION AS DALTON
MCGUINTY HAVE IT IN OR
TALKS CUTS YOU SHOULD
KNOW THAT DOMINION BOND
RATING FIRST AND
STANDARD AND POORS TWO
NON PARTISAN BOND
RATING AGENCIES ARE
TALKING ABOUT OUR
DEFICIT THIS PROBLEMS.
NOW BE 2.2 BILLION
DOLLARS AT THE SAME TIME
THESE GUYS ARE PROMISING
TAX CUTS.
TAX CUTS BY THE WAY
WHICH THEY --.

David says OKAY.
WE WILL TALK ABOUT
DOMINION BOND RATING
FIRST.
JUST TO PICK ON BLAIR'S
POINT.
YOU CAN'T JUST LOOK AT
THIS ONE TAX CUT IN
ISOLATION.
HE IS QUITE RIGHT.
THERE HAVE BEEN 225 CUTS
TO DATE.
THEY HAVE SAVED THE
AVERAGE FAMILY IN
ONTARIO WELL NEXT SESS
OF 2500 DOLLARS.
THIS PLATFORM WILL CAUSE
THERE O BE EVEN FURTHER
SAVINGS.
FURTHER OPPORTUNITIES.
AND JUST A MOMENT.
I MEAN IT IS NOT ALL
SURPRISING THAT RUTH AND
RICHARD DON'T LIKE THESE
TAX CUTS.
THAT DALTON MCGUINTY
DOES NOT LIKE THEM.
THAT HAMPTON DOES NOT
THEY HAVE VOTED AGAINST
ALL 225 TAX CUTS THAT WE
HAVE BROUGHT FORWARD FOR
THIS PROVINCE.
THEY NEVER SEEN TAX CUT.
NEVER MET ONE THEY
LIKED.

Ruth says THERE IS NOT FAMILY
IN THIS PROVINCE THAT IS
NOT PAYING MORE OUT OF
THE THEIR OWN POCKET FOR
FEES, FOR SCHOOL WE ARE
SEEING RECREATION
PROGRAMS CUT THERE IS NO
MONEY TO RENT SCHOOL
GYM.
SO THE TAX CUTS ARE A
FRAUD.

Steve says YOU ARE THE MINISTER
OF MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND I
WANT TO ASK YOU A
QUESTION.
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
NEW DEAL FOR CITIES.
AND PART OF THAT NEW
DEAL THAT YOU ARE GOING
TO PROHIBIT
MUNICIPALITIES FROM
RAISING TAXES UNLESS
THEY HAVE A REFERENDUM
FIRST AND I WANT TO KNOW
IF YOU THINK YOUR CALLS
WILL BE WIN AND IF YOU
PUT THIS IN BECAUSE THAT
SOUNDS TO LIKE LIE
UNPOPULAR FOR THEM.

David says MUNICIPALITIES HAVE SAID
FOR CONSIDERABLE PERIOD
OF TIME THAT THEY NEED
NEW SOURCES OF REVENUE.
AT THIS POINT IN TIME,
ALL THEY HAVE IS
PROPERTY TAX BASE AND
THEY HAVE SAID TO US
THAT THEY NEED NEW WAYS
OF RAISING MONEY.
TO DO WHAT THEY ARE TO
DO.
AND ERNIE EAVES HAS
DELIVERED.
I MEAN HE HAS DELIVERED
I ALLOW THEM TO HAVE A
PARKING PASS.
HE WILL ALLOW THEM TO
HAVE HOTEL PASS AND GAS
TAX.
BUT FIRST THEY WILL HAVE
TO GO TO THE PEOPLE OF
THEIR RESPECTIVE JURISDICTIONS
AND THE PEOPLE
WILL HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO
SAY YES YOU ARE A THIS
IS GOOD OR BAD IDEA.
AND LET'S -- BUT
UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE
ASKING THEM TO DO
EXACTLY WHAT WE AS A
GOVERNMENT HAVE DONE FOR
THE LAST NUMBER YEARS.
I MEAN, WE HAVE NOT
BROUGHT IN ANY TAX
INCREASES SINCE WE HAVE
COME INTO OFFICE WE HAVE
CUT TAX AND IF WE DID
HAVE OCCASION WHERE WE
NEEDED TO RAISE TAX WE
HAVE NOT YET, HOPEFULLY
WE WILL NOT.
IF WE DID HAVE OCCASION
WE ARE NOW OBLIGED BY
LAW TO GO PEOPLE OF THIS
PROVINCE.
WE ARE ASKING
MUNICIPALITIES TO ABIDE
THE SAME RULES.

Ruth says GAS TAX FOR HEAVEN
SAKE.

Steve says SO MUCH MORE TO GET
THROUGH.

Richard says THEY ACTUALLY DELAYED
THEIR TAX CUTS --.

Blair says IT IS DELAY.

[ALL TALKING AT
ONCE].

Steve says THERE WERE A LOT OF
OTHER THINGS INVESTMENT
PLATFORM MANY OF THOSE
HAVING TO DO WITH SECTOR
MIKE HARRIS USED TO DO
BATTLE WITH FROM TIME TO
TIME.
THE UNIONS.
NOW HERE ERNIE EVES HAS
IN STORE FOR THEM.

Eves says WE PASS LEGISLATION
TO PROHIBIT EDUCATION
STRIKES LOCK OUTS, AND
WORK TO RULE JOB ACTION
DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR.
[APPLAUSE].

OKAY.
THAT'S BIG CONTROVERSIAL
ONE AS WELL AS MEASURE
TO BAN EDUCATION STRIKES
THE CONSERVATIVE WANT TO
REQUIRE VOTES WHEN UNION
CHANGES THE AMOUNT IT
CHARGES FOR DUES OR FOR
ANY EXPENDITURES OTHER
THAN NORMAL OPERATIONAL
COST.
WHAT THAT INCLUDES IS
NOT DEFINED.

Ruth says THERE ARE SUCH THINGS
NOW.

Steve says OKAY.
SAYS RUTH GRIER.
THEY WANT TO MAKE EASIER
FOR UNIONS SEPARATE FROM
THEIR U.S. PARENTS.

Ruth says IT IS PROCESS BY
WHICH THEY CAN DO THAT
NOW.

David says RUTH IS IN FAVOUR OF
THIS PLATFORM.

They laugh.

David says THEY HAVE ALREADY WON
HER OVER.
THAT'S HOW GOOD IT IS.

Steve says WELL THIS, RAISES THE
QUESTION OF COURSE, WHEN
THINGS GOT TOUGH FOR
MIKE HARRIS, YOU KNOW HE
WOULD GO BASH A FEW
TEACHER UNIONS OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND
PEOPLE WILL WANT ME TO
ASK YOU IS THAT'S WHAT
GOING ON HERE?

David says NOTHING COULD BE
FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
WHAT WE HAVE DONE WE
HAVE GONE TO THE PEOPLE
OF ATTORNEY JOE AND MANY
OF THEM ARE UNION
MEMBERS WE HAVE SAID
WHAT IS YOUR VISION FOR
THE FUTURE.
HOW DO YOU WANT ONTARIO
TO LOOK NOT THIS YEAR
BUT NEXT YEAR THE YEAR
AFTER OVER NEXT TEN, 20
YEARS.
AND WHAT WE HAVE HEARD
FROM THEM THEY BELIEVE
INSTITUTION BE THEY
FORMALLY ELECTED PEOPLE
AND IN PARLIAMENT OR
INFORMALLY ELECTED
PEOPLE AND HORSE ARE
REPRESENTING THEM IN THE
UNIONS SHOULD BE
RESPONSIBLE.
SHOULD BE ACCOUNTABLE.
AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE
IN THIS PLATFORM.

Richard says DAVID YOU HAVE YET TO
WIN ELECTION.
THAT DID NOT -- WHERE
YOU DID NOT FOCUS ON --
PUT UP A STEVE SUGGESTED
A BOOGIE MAN IN TEACHERS
AND THEN HIT THEM AROUND
THE LIKE PIN YACHT AT
THAT IN GOING FOR YOUR
THREE-PETE YOU HAVE SET
UP ANOTHER TARGET WHICH
IS TEACHER STRIKES.
YOU KNOW THERE WILL BE
LOCK OUT IN TORONTO
TOO.
THIS IS RIGHT NOW.
AND IT IS PERFECT TARGET
FOR YOU TO DO THAT.
AND THE -- I THINK WHAT
PEOPLE WANT TO IN
PROVINCE PEOPLE INVEST
IN EDUCATION GET SMALLER
CLASS SIZES RATHER THAN
PICK YET ANOTHER -- CAN
WE HAVE FIVE MORE YEARS
OF EDUCATION PROBLEMS?

Blair says I THINK, YOU KNOW
CLEARLY KNOWS THAT
GOVERNMENT IS SPENDING
RECORDS AMOUNTS ON
EDUCATION.

Richard says YOU FROZE IT.

Blair says 15.3 BILLION DOLLARS
A YEAR.
AND THE DOCTOR'S REPORT
WE WILL SPENDING TWO
BILLION DOLLARS NEXT
YEAR MORE THAN THE
RECOMMENDATION IN HIS
REPORT.
BUT I WANT TO ADDRESS
THE ISSUE OF THE TEACHER
STRIKES.
BECAUSE, STUDENTS IN
ONTARIO ARE OBVIOUSLY
PERFORMING BETTER NOW ON
IN MATH AND LITERACY AND
SCIENCE THAN THEY DID IN
'95.
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS
THAT THOSE STUDENTS ARE
NOT GOING TO LEARN IF
THEY ARE NO THE
CLASSROOMS AND THAT'S
WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT
DOING BY TAKE PROACTIVE
ACTION.

Richard says THAT WAS DUMB IDEA.

Ruth says THAT WAS WHAT DALTON
MCGUINTY SAID WHEN HE
INTRODUCED THE
LEGISLATION.

Richard says DALTON MCGUINTY PUT A
LIMIT OF 20 DAYS ON
TEACHER STRIKES.
AND PRIVATE -- BY THE
WAY, SINCE THAT WAS
INTRODUCED NOT ONE NOT
ONE TEACHER STRIKE HAS
LASTED MORE THAN 20
DAYS.
IN TWO, -- ERNIE EVES
WAS AGAINST THIS IDEA
DURING THE LEADERSHIP HE
REJECTED THE IDEA.

Steve says BUT QUESTION
IS IF YOU IN FACT PASS A
LAW WHICH BANS STRIKES
OR LOCK OUTS, WILL IT DO
THE JOB?
WILL IT IN FACT DO IT?
I WOULD PRESUME IF TEACH
REMEMBERS MAD AND DON'T
CARE TO FOLLOW THE LAW,
THEY WILL DO IT ANYWAY.

Ruth says OF COURSE IT COULD.
I MEAN IN THOSE CASES
WHERE WORK REMEMBERS NOT
ALLOWED TO STRIKE LIKE
FIREMEN AND OTHERS THERE
IS ANOTHER PROCESS FOR
ARBITRATING THEIR
GRIEVANCE AND THEIR
WAGES AND FRANKLY, IT
USUALLY COST MORE.
AND I THINK THAT IS WHY
SOME OF THE LEADERSHIP
CANDIDATES IN TORY
LEADERSHIP RACE SAID NO.
IN FACT LIZ BIT QUOTED
AS SAYING AND CHRIS
STOCKWELL THIS IS NOT
SOMEWHERE WE SHOULD GO.
SO I AM BACKED TO
RICHARD'S POINT THAT
THIS IS NEEDING
STRONG --.

Richard says RUTH’S RIGHT.
THAT'S ARGUMENT EAVES
MADE.
NOT THAT IT WAS NOT GOOD
IDEA BUT THROUGH FORCED
ARBITRATION THE ADDED
COST OF THE EDUCATION
WOULD BE 700 MILLION
DOLLARS A YEAR.

Steve says COME ON IN
HERE FOR SECOND AND TELL
US WHY YOU THINK THIS IS
GOOD IDEA.

David says I SAY IT BOTH AS
PARENT AND AS PUBLIC
REPRESENTATIVE.
I AM TIRED OF THE LABOUR
DISRUPTION IN THE
SCHOOLS.
I AM TIRED.

Ruth says WE ALL ARE.

David says HOLD ON.
WE COULD TAKE DALTON
MCGUINTY APPROACH AND WE CAN GIVE
THE UNIONS EVERYTHING
THEY WANT AND WE COULD
SPEND ANOTHER -- I WILL
WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE DONE.
WE COULD TAKE DALTON
MCGUINTY'S APPROACH AND
WE COULD GIVE THE UNIONS
EVERYTHING THEY WANT AND
WE CAN GIVE THEM ANOTHER
6 BILLION DOLLARS I
STILL DON'T THINK BASED
UPON PAST EXPERIENCE AND
IF YOU LOOKED BACK TO
MISTER PETERSON'S DAYS
THERE WERE STRIKES THEN
TOO.
I DON'T THINK WE WILL
HAVE LAY BOW PIECE.
WE NEED NEW APPROACH
WHEN CHILD GOES TO
SCHOOL TO ENSURE THE
THAT TEACHER WILL BE THERE.
THAT THE TEACHER WON’T WITHDRAW
SERVICES
SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WANT
TO LARGER SALARY.

Ruth says THE SCHOOL BOARD LOCKS
THEM OUT.

David says THEY LOCK THEM OUT
BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT
PERFORMING SERVICE.
SERVICES INCLUDING
COMMENTS ON RECORD
CARDS.

Ruth says THAT WAS NOT STRIKE.
THAT WAS WORKING TO THE
ACTUAL RULES THAT WERE
THERE.

David says THAT'S CAN'T BE ALLOW
CONTINUE AND
CONSERVATIVE PARTY
WOULDN'T ALLOW IT.

Richard says I AGREE WITH DAVID
YOUNG ON PROBABLY MORE
THAN ONE THING.
ONE THING IN FOR SURE
AND THAT'S THAT WE NEED
NEW APPROACH CHANGE
VERSUS MORE OF THE SAME AND
MORE OF THE SAME EIGHT
YEARS OF LABOUR STRIKES.
LET'S GET RID OF THAT.
RATHER THAN PICK A FIGHT
WITH THEM IN THE
ELECTION CAMPAIGN AND
THEREAFTER.

Blair says NO SURPRISES THAT
RICHARD WOULD SIT HERE
AND DEFENDS SPECIAL
INTERESTS THE WAY HE HAS
JUST DONE.
THAT'S WHAT HIS LEADER
HAS BEEN DONE.

Ruth says YOU CAN NO LONGER LAY
CLAIM TO THAT.

Blair says I WANT TO POINT OUT WHAT
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOT
FORCED ARBITRATION WE
ARE TALKING ABOUT
LIMITING THE RIGHT TO
STRIKE AND WORK TO RULE
CAMPAIGNS DURING THE
SCHOOL YEAR.
SO, THE RIGHT TO STRIKE
WILL STILL EXIT IN JULY
AND AUGUST.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU THE
QUESTION ABOUT UNION
GOVERNMENT RELATIONS
NOWADAYS.
PEOPLE REMEMBER A TIME
IN THE THIS PROVINCE 25
YEARS AGO, WHEN A
DIFFERENT CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT WAS IN POWER
WHERE ESSENTIALLY THERE
WERE DEMONSTRATIONS
THERE WAS YELLING AT THE
END OF THE DAY YOU KNOW
THERE WAS A DEAL ALMOST
ALWAYS MADE.
DO YOU THINK THINGS ARE
DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT
NOW?
IF SO, WHY?

David says YOU KNOW I USED TO
USUAL SCHOOL TRUSTEE I
SAY THIS DO YOU THAT I
DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR
QUESTION.
I THINK BACK IF WE START
WORKING OUR WAY BACK,
BACK TO DAYS WHEN I WAS
SCHOOL TRUSTEE AND I
WAKED THROUGH AND HEARD
TEACHERS AND OTHERS
EMPLOYEES SAY TO ME,
THAT MORALE HAS NEVER
BEEN LOWER.
NO ONE LISTENING TO US.
I GO BACK TO DAYS WHEN
PETERSON WAS IN OFFICE AND
HE TAMPERED WITH SOME
PENSION.
AND IS THAT WAS A DECLARATION OF WAR
AND THEY
DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND.
I GOT BACK TO WHEN I WAS
IN SCHOOL WHEN PREMIER
DAVIS WAS THE LEADER OF
THE PROVINCE AND I CAN
REMEMBER VERY LENGTH
THIGH STRIKE WHEN I WAS
IN GRADE 13.

Steve says HE ALWAYS MET WITH
CLIFF.

David says AND ALSO REMEMBER BY
THE THERE WAS POLICE
PROTECTION FOR MINISTER
OF EDUCATION.

Richard says THEY DID VERY WISE
THING.
IT HANG LONG STANDING.
I WHICH ACTUALLY
MEDIATE THESE DISPUTES RIGHT NOW WE
HAVE A SYSTEM IN PLACE
WHEN TEACHER STRIKES GO
ON.

Steve says DO YOU THINK PARENTS
ARE HAPPY WITH IT
THOUGH?

Richard says I THINK IF STRIKE
GOES ON THAT AND OTHER
SYSTEMS HAVE COME.
WHAT I WILL SAY DAVID IS
RIGHT ONE SENSE, MORALE
HAS NEVER BEEN LOWER
THAN RIGHT NOW.
TEACHERS FEEL PARENT
FEEL, AND EVERYBODY HOLD
DUE INDICATION PROCESS
FEELS SET UPON THE
GOVERNMENT.
THEY FEEL IT IS
EDUCATION IS NOT
PRIORITY MORALE HAS NEVER
BEEN LOWER.
I AM MARRIED TO TEACHER
IT HAS NEVER BEEN WORSE.

Steve says WE HAVE ONE MORE AREA
FOR DISCUSSION IN OUR
PROGRAM TONIGHT.
PCs ROAD AHEAD DOCUMENT
HAS A LOT TO SAY ABOUT
IMMIGRATION AS WELL.
WATCH.

Eves says WELL NEGOTIATION OUR
OWN IMMIGRATION
AGREEMENT WITH THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
WE WILL TEST POTENTIAL
IMMIGRANTS BEFORE THEY
COME TO ONTARIO.
TO IDENTIFY THOSE
WITH SKILLS AND
QUALIFICATION OUR
PROVINCE NEEDS MOST.
USING ONTARIO STANDARDS
AS THE BENCHMARK.

Steve says EARLY ON FRIDAY WITH
KICK OFF THE PLATFORM AS
WELL AS TEST WILLING
IMMIGRANTS FOR SKILLS
CONSERVATIVE WILL END LEGAL AID
FOR IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE CASES AND
THEY’LL GIVE WHAT THEY CALL SPECIAL
CARE TEAMS AND THE POLICE IF NEEDED
THE POWER OF SCOOP THE HOMELESS OFF
STREETS DURING COLD WEATHER ALERTS.
THE OTHER DELIGHTFUL THING ABOUT HAVING
YOU AS GUEST ON THIS
PROGRAM YOU ARE FORMER
ATTORNEY GENERAL AND
THESE ARE SOME VERY IN
VIEW OF SOME, TROUBLING
LEGAL MATTERS.
COMING FORWARD HERE.
IF YOU WERE THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL, WOULD
YOU TELL THE PREMIER I
AM NOT SURE YOU CAN DO
THIS THIS MAY BE
ILLEGAL?

David says ACTUALLY, AS ATTORNEY
GENERAL I WENT TO OTTAWA
AND I SAID TO THEM ON
REPEATED OCCASION AS DID
ANY PREDECESSORS, AS DID
THE MINISTERS OF JUSTICE
IN MOST OTHER PROVINCE
THAT IMMIGRATION IS A
FEDERAL MATTER THEY
CONTROL ALMOST EVERY
ASPECT OF IT IN TO
INCREASE THEIR
CONTRIBUTION.

Steve says BUT UNTIL THEY DO IS
IT FAIR TO TAKE IT AWAY?

David says ONTARIANS PLAY 1 MILLION
DOLLARS A YEAR FOR WHAT
IS ENTIRELY FEDERAL
PROCESS.

Steve says UNTIL THE FEDS STEP
IN AND LET'S SAY YOU ARE
RIGHT ON THAT.
UNTIL FEDS STEP IN IS IT
FAIR TO TAKE THAT
FUNDING AWAY?

David says I CAN TELL YOU WE GOT TO
DO SOMETHING TO GET
THEIR ATTENTION AND I
HAVE SPOKEN TO ACTUALLY
LIBERAL ATTORNEY GENERAL
IN BRITISH COLUMBIA ON
MORE THAN ONE OCCASION
AND HE HAS SAID TO ME I
THINK HE HAS SAID
FORMALLY AND PUBLICLY
THAT THAT MAY BE THE
ONLY ALTERNATIVE THAT
OTTAWA CANNOT KEEP
IGNORING THIS PROBLEM.

Steve says TALK TO ME AS
WELL ABOUT THE SPECIAL
CARE TEAMS AND THIS
IS -- I GUESS HARK
ANSWER BACK TO
LEADERSHIP CAMPAIGN WHEN
HE SAID, EVEN IF
NECESSARY, TO SAVE A
LIFE, WE WILL HAVE
POLICE SCOOP HOMELESS
OFF THE STREETS AND PUT
THEM IN JAIL BETTER THAT
THAN FREEZING TO IT
DOESN'T STREETS.
NOW HAD HE NOT USED WORD
JAIL THIS ESSENTIALLY
WOULD BE WHAT WAS
UNVEILED TODAY.
AGAIN, IS THAT LEGAL TO
PICK UP SOMEBODY AGAINST
THEIR WILL AND PUT THEM
IN A PLACE NOT
NECESSARILY WHERE THEY
WANT TO BE?

David says WELL LET'S UNDERSTAND
THAT WE ARE MOTIVATED
HERE BY COMPASSION
TRYING TO HELP SOME
PEOPLE WHO CAN'T HELP
THEMSELVES IF THEIR LIFE IN
DANGER WE OBLIGATION TO
ACT AND THIS IS
DIFFERENT THAN WHAT
HE PROPOSED IN
NUMBER OF ACE WHAT WE
ARE DOING HERE WE ARE
BUILD ON BRIAN'S LAW.
WHICH IS A
INTERNATIONALLY
ACCLAIMED PROGRAM THAT
THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT
HAS BROUGHT INTO HELP
THOSE WITH MENTAL
CHALLENGES.
THEY WILL BE TEAMS OF
PEOPLE WHO WILL GO OUT
AND TRY TO HELP THE
PEOPLE TRYING TO TALK
THEM INTO GOING INTO
SHELTER OR GET THE AID
THEY NEED TO DO ANYTHING
LESS WOULD BE
UNACCEPTABLE.

Steve says IT IS NOT ILLEGAL?
NO.

Ruth says IF IT IS MOTIVATED BY
COMPASSION IF MOTIVATED
BY SOMETHING LIKE
BRIAN'S LAW THEN WHY
WHAT IT NEEDS GREAT DEAL
MORE MONEY PUT INTO
MENTAL HELL PROGRAMS AND
PUT INTO SUPPORTIVE
HOUSING PROGRAMS.
AND THERE IS NOTHING IN
HERE ABOUT DOING THAT.
AND THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED
TO DO TO GET PEOPLE OFF THE
STREETS.

David says WE ARE DOING THAT.
I MEAN, YOU MAKE GOOD
POINT AND THERE YOU ARE
RIGHT.
THERE IS GOING HAVE TO
BE -- THERE ARE GOING TO
HAVE BE MORE RESOURCES
WE STARTED DOWN THAT
ROAD AND NUMBER OF
DIFFERENT WAYS AND YOU
MENTIONED HOUSING.
WE HAVE ALLOCATED 0
MILLION DOLLARS EXCESS
OF 90 MILLION DOLLARS TO
BE PAID FOR HOUSE THOSE
WITH MENTAL CHALLENGES
AND THAT MONEY GOING TO
BE SPENT OVER NEXT
NUMBER OF YEARS.
BUT THERE PROBABLY
BE --.

Steve says IT WOULDN'T -- I WANT
BLAIR TO SPEAK TO THIS.
REACTION THE UNIVERSAL
REACTION WE HAVE HEARD
TODAY SINCE THIS WAS
UNVEILED WAS THAT OF
WHAT JIM SAID EARLIER
TAKE AWAY THE WORD JAIL.
WE THOUGHT EVERYBODY
DIDN'T LIKE THAT POLICY.
PARTICULARLY BECAUSE OF
THE WORD JAIL.
SO WHY IS IT HERE DO YOU
THINK?

Blair says FIRST I WANT TO
ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF MENTAL
HEALTH.

Steve says ANSWER
QUESTION I ASKED YOU
FIRST.

Blair says SURE.
NO.
IN LOOK I OBVIOUSLY AS
MINISTER SAID I MEAN,
THIS IS A POLICY
MOTIVATED BY COMPASSION.
I MEAN HOMELESSNESS IS
OBVIOUSLY VERY
CHALLENGING ISSUE AND
URBAN AREAS.
AND SOME THING HAS TO BE
DONE.
AND WHAT WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT HERE IS NOT THE
POLICE.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
DOCTORS AND PSYCHIATRISTS AND NURSES AND
SOCIAL WORKERS COMING
TOGETHER AS CARE TEAMS
AND TRYING TO GIVE
PEOPLE THE CARE THAT
THEY NEED.
AND ON MENTAL HEALTH
ISSUE I WANT TO POINT
OUT THAT OUR GOVERNMENT
IN LAST BUDGET IN FACT
ANNOUNCED 250 MILLION
DOLLARS OVER NEXT FIVE
YEARS TO ASSIST IN THOSE
PROGRAMS.

Richard says LET ME TRY AND ANSWER
THE QUESTION TO BLAIR.
I THINK THE REASON WHY
YOU -- THAT THAT IS IN
THERE STEVE, IS BECAUSE
ERNIE EAVES IS NOW
DECIDE FINLEY WE NEVER
BEEN EXACTLY SURE HOSE.
HE WAS GOING TO BE
DIFFERENT FROM MIKE
HARRIS HE WANTED TO
BREAK FROM MIKE HARRIS.
NOW DECIDE THAT THE WAY
TO MAINTAIN HIS BASIS TO
BE MIKE HARRIS THAT'S
WHY WE HAVE BAN ON
TEACHER STRIKE THAT'S
WHY THE.

Steve says MIKE HARRIS NEVER DID
THAT.

Richard says BUT IT WAS KIND OF ISSUE
I THINK WOULD YOU AGREE
WITH ME THAT HE COME
PAINTED ON OUT WEALTH
FARE STUFF AND ON
NEEDLES AND LAST TIME
AND SO ON AND SO FORTH
THIS IS THE 2003,
VERSION OF THAT.
AND THAT SWEEPED
HOMELESS OFF THE STREETS
WHEN THEY CAMPAIGN ON IT
IN YOUR ADDS THERE WON’T
BE WHOLE BUNCH DETAILS
ON CARING AND SHARING IT
WILL SWEEP THE HOMELESS
OFF THE STREETS.
SECONDLY, ON THE IMMIGRATION STUFF.
NOT ONLY IS IT A ILLEGAL
AND FAIR -- LEGAL IT AND
FAIR MINISTER MAKES
ARGUMENT FEDERAL PROCESS
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
SHOULD PAY, WHAT
RIDICULOUS NOTION THAT
IS.
FIRST OF ALL ONTARIANS
DON'T CARE WHAT
JURISDICTION THIS IS. SECONDLY
THE CRIMINAL CODE ALSO
FEDERAL PROCESS AND HE
KNOWS ATTORNEY GENERAL
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO THE
PEOPLE PAID FOR
ADMINISTRATION OF JUST
IT IS THROUGHOUT THE
YEARS AND SINCE -- 1867.

David says WE ARE BOTH
TALKING -- EITHER ONE OF
CAN GO.
IT IS INTERESTING.
THERE IS NOT REALLY MUCH
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
FEDERAL AND THE PROVINCIAL LIBERALS.
I HOPE RICHARD GOING TO
EXPLAIN BEFORE THE SHOW
IS OVER WHY IT IS THAT
QUEBEC GETS THREE TIMES
AS MUCH AS ONTARIO DOES
FOR EACH NEW CANADIAN
THAT SET UNLESS THAT
PROVINCE.
I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT.
I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT.
IT IS IN HERE.
IT IS IN HERE.

He shows a pamphlet.

Richard says WE HAVE BEEN ASKING --
YOU HAVE BEEN IN THERE
FOR EIGHT YEARS.

David says THAT'S NOT TRUE.

Richard says YOUR MINISTER DOES NOT
TALK ABOUT THAT.

David says THAT'S NOT TRUE.
NOTHING COULD BE
FURTHER TRUTH TRUTH.

Ruth says THERE OTHER ASPECT
IMMIGRATION THAT I THINK
NEED TO BE TALKED ABOUT
AND ONE THIS NONSENSE
ABOUT SENDING NEW
IMMIGRANTS TO NORTHERN
ONTARIO AND TO SMALL
TOWNS.
I THINK PEOPLE WHO COME
BY IN LARGE NOWADAYS TO
CANADA AND TO TORONTO,
ARE NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE
GOING TO BE ABLE TO
SURVIVE REPORT SKILLS
NECESSARY -- NECESSARY
FOR SMALL TOWNS.
OTHER THING THEY CAN
THEY ARE DOING IS
CUTTING OFF HEALTH CARE
TO IMMIGRANTS AND IN
LIGHT OF S.A.R.S AND
DISEASES COMING IN I
THINK THAT'S JUST PLAIN
STUPID.
AND SHORT SIGHTED.

Steve says LET ME PICK UP
ON SECOND PART YOU ARE
CUTTING I BELIEVE YOU
ARE CUTTING OFF
IMMIGRATION REFUGEE CASE
PERSONS WHO ARE WAITING
FOR CASES TO BE
DETERMINED.
YOU ARE CUTTING OFF
THEIR CARDS?

David says NO.
FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
WE DON'T THINK.

Steve says ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

David says FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
WE DON'T THINK –

Richard says PUT THEM IN A REFUGEE.

David says SORRY LET ME FINISH.
FOR IMMIGRANTS IN
THIS –

Steve says LET HIM ANSWER.

David says SORRY.
LET'S START OVER.
FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
IN THIS PROVINCE WE
DON'T THINK THAT TAX
PAYER SHOULD HAVE TO PAY
FOR THEIR MEDICAL CARE.

Richard says IS A REFUGEE AN ILLEGAL
IMMIGRANTS?

David says NO.
SO ANY REFUGEE –

Richard says OF
COURSE NOT.
THEY SHOULD GET MEDICAL
COVERAGE.

Steve says TWO MINUTES LEFT IN
SEGMENT OVERAFTERING
QUESTION IS THIS FURTHER
EVIDENCE OF A POLITICAL
TURN TO THE HARD RIGHT
WHICH MISTER EVES FEELS HE
NEEDS TO DO IN ORDER TO
SECURE THE BASE?

David says YOU KNOW I KNOW THAT
THERE IS A NATURAL
TENDENCY TO WANT TO
CHARACTERIZE
THIS PLATFORM OR ANY
PARTICULAR POLICY AS
LEFT RIGHT OR CENTRE.
THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER
IS THAT PREMIER EAVES
HAS A PHILOSOPHY THAT
QUITE FRANKLY I BELIEVE
IN AND EMBRACE AND THAT IS
THAT IT THAT ALL THE GOOD
INTENTIONS IN THE WORLD
AMOUNT TO NOTHING IF YOU DON’T HAVE
ECONOMIC GROWTH TO HELP PEOPLE.
WE’VE GROWN THIS ECONOMY BACK
TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAVE 16 BILLION
DOLLARS MORE COMING TO ONTARIO EVERY YEAR.
THAT’S ALLOWED US TO SPEND MORE ON EDUCATION
AND HEALTHCARE.

Steve says YOU ARE WHAT MOST
PEOPLE BELIEVE A PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE.
YOU FEEL CONFORTABLE RUNNING ON THIS?

David says ABSOLUTELY.
THIS PLATFORM WILL ALLOW US TO CONTINUE TO GROW
THIS ECONOMY AND HELP PEOPLE.

Richard says THEIR IMMIGRATION IDEAS ARE IN THE
CRIME SECTION OF THEIR PLATFORM. THAT’S ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.
IN THE LIBERAL PLATFORM, BY THE WAY, ARE IN THE GROWING THE ECONOMY.

David says THAT’S NOT ACCURATE.
WHETHER YOU ARE
OVERLAPPING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Steve says THAT'S OUR TIME.
MINISTER YOUNG THANK YOU
FOR VISITING US AND TO
THE THREE OF YOU MY THANKS
AS WELL.
AND THAT'S "FOURTH
READING."
UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY.
THANK YOU.

Music plays as the end credits roll.

Queen’s Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

Editor, Doug Beavan.

CEP LOCAL 72m.

Canadian Media Guild.

TNG Canada CWA.

A production of TVOntario.

Copyright. The Ontario Educational Communications Authority 2003.

Watch: The Road Ahead