Transcript: SARS Fallout | Apr 27, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.

Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

A clip shows a gavel banging against a desk, and MPPs voting in the Legislature.

Fast clip shows images of people wearing white disposable coats and paper masks.

Paula is in the studio with 3 guests.

Paula Todd is in her early forties, with chin length straight blond hair with bangs. She wears a white blouse and a pastel pink jacket.

She says THIS WEEK ON "4TH
READING," THE POLITICS OF SARS.
HAVE OUR GOVERNMENTS HELPED OR
HURT IN THE SARS CRISIS?

Paula says HELLO, EVERYONE.
AISLE PAULA TODD.
STEVE PAIKIN IS OFF WITH A BAD
BACK.
WELCOME TO "4TH READING."
PREMIER ERNIE EVES MOVED
THIS WEEK TO HELP EASE THE
DIFFICULTIES MANY HAVE EXPERIENCED
WITH THE SARS OUTBREAK.
EVES PROMISES THOSE WHO LOST
PAY DUE TO MANDATORY QUARANTINE
WILL BE FULLY COMPENSATED.
THE PREMIER MADE THE
ANNOUNCEMENT AFTER GOVERNMENTS
OF ALL LEVELS WERE CRITICIZED
FOR NOT DOING ENOUGH ABOUT
SARS.
BUT SOME POLITICIANS SAID THAT
SARS IS A MEDICAL PROBLEM, NO
THE A POLITICAL ONE.
WE'LL GET INTO THAT IN A
MOMENT.
BUT FIRST, LET'S LOOK AT WHAT
EVES HAS IN MIND.

A fast clip shows Premier Eves at a press conference. He’s in his fifties, with short straight gray hair neatly combed back. He wears a blue suit, blue shirt and striped tie.

He says THE FIRST TIME I'M GIVING
YOU MY WORD THAT ANY ONTARIAN
THAT LOST WAGES BECAUSE THEY'VE
BEEN ASKED TO GO INTO
QUARANTINE BY PUBLIC HEALTH
OFFICIALS WILL BE FULLY
COMPENSATED.
FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES WILL
NOT BE AN IMPEDIMENT TO US.
AND PEOPLE WILL NOT HAVE TO
CHOOSE BETWEEN DOING THE RIGHT
THING AND PUTTING FOOD ON THEIR
TABLE.
SECOND, STARTING TODAY, THE
GOVERNMENT WILL PROVIDE 25 DOLLARS
MILLION TO GTA HOSPITALS, TO
ADDRESS SURGICAL BACK LOGS,
CAUSED BY SARS.
THIRD, OUR GOVERNMENT WILL
COMMIT 10 MILLION DOLLARS TOWARDS THE
FIRST PHASE OF AN AGGRESSIVE
WORLDWIDE MARKETING CAMPAIGN TO
PROMOTE TORONTO AND ONTARIO AS
A SAFE TRAVEL DESTINATION.

Paula says NOW, PRIME MINISTER
JEAN CHRETIEN HAS ANNOUNCED--
ALSO ANNOUNCED 10 DOLLARS MILLION TO
PROMOTE TORONTO AS A SAFE
DESTINATION.
HAVE OUR GOVERNMENTS BEEN DOING
ENOUGH?
LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT WITH OUR
QUEEN'S PARK ANALYSTS.
RICHARD MAHONEY, FORMER ONTARIO
LIBERAL PARTY PRESIDENT AND NOW
WITH FRASER MILNER AND KAZKAN
AND BOREALIS CAPITAL.
AND RUTH GRIER WAS WITH THE BOB
RAE’S NEW DEMOCRATS.
AND WITH US TODAY, BLAIR
MCCREADIE, PRESIDENT OF THE
ONTARIO TORY PARTY.
AND LET'S GET TO IT.
RUTH, YOU HEARD THE PREMIER,
OFFERING COMPENSATION TO
INDIVIDUALS AND HOSPITALS AND A
BOOST FOR THE TOURISM BUSINESS.
IS THIS ENOUGH?

A caption reads "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth is in her sixties, with short straight white hair. She wears glasses, a purple sweater, lavender jacket, a plaid scarf and a delicate pair of earrings.

She says I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S
ENOUGH.
BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A
FASCINATING REFERRAL.
I THINK I SAT HERE LAST WEEK
AND-- FASCINATING REVERSAL.
I THINK I SAT HERE LAST WEEK
WHEN THE PREMIER SAID IT WOULD
COST TOO MUCH THAT HE SHOULD
COMPENSATE THOSE QUARANTINED SO
THEY COULD AFFORD TO PUT FOOD
ON THE TABLE.
ABOUT HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND
WORRY ABOUT THE STRESS AND THE
STRAIN.
WE'RE NOW BRINGING IN OTHER
PEOPLE FROM OTHER PROVINCES TO
DO THAT.
AND I THINK THE PREMIER
LISTENED TO "4TH READING" AND
I'M GLAD THAT HE DID.
AND I HAVE LOTS MORE GOOD
IDEAS, PREMIER, ANY I AM TO YOU
WANT HIM.
THINK HE'S STARTING TO DO THE
RIGHT THING.
AND I WISH HE HAD DONE IT
SOONER.

Paula says RICHARD?

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard is in his early fifties, clean-shaven and with short wavy gray hair. He wears a navy blue suit, white shirt and patterned tie.

He says STAY TUNE FOR ALL CHARGES ON
PC PUBLIC POLICY AND ONE THING
HE SAID EARLIER THIS WEEK WHEN
THE W.H.O. CAME OUT, HE SAID
THIS IS A MEDICAL ISSUE AND NOT
A POLITICAL ISSUE.
THEN TWO DAYS LATER, HE SAID,
LIKE MOST OTHER PEOPLE SAID
THAT THE W.H.O. MADE A BIG
MISTAKE HERE AND HE'S NOW TRY
TO OVERTURN IT.
AND IN ALL FAIRNESS, AND I'LL BE
FAIR TO THE PREMIER FOR A
MOMENT, AND THEN GET AWAY FROM
IT.
IT'S A DIFFICULT LINE S IT A
MEDICAL OR A POLITICAL PROBLEM?
I THINK THE ANSWER IS NONE OF
THEM FRANKLY HAVE BEEN AT ANY--
HAVE ANY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT
BEEN GOOD AT IT.
CITY COUNCIL SEEMS TO BE
ASLEEP.
PREMIER SEEMS TO BE TONE DEAF.
AND CLEMENT I THINK HAS DONE A
GOOD JOB AS THE HEALTH
MINISTER.
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, I'M NOT ONE
TO USUALLY CRITICIZE THEM THE
AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, DOESN'T
KNOW IF IT'S A POLITICAL OR
HEALTH PROBLEM.
BUT I THINK IT'S BOTH.
I THINK THAT AT TIMES LIKE THIS
WE NEED POLITICAL ISSUE ON THE
BROADER ISSUE, NOT THE HEALTH
ISSUE, BUT THE BROADER ISSUE ON
THE IMPACT ON THE COUNTRY AND
ECONOMY AND THE IMPACT ON
PEOPLE.

Paula says LET'S TALK TO YOU
ABOUT THE VOICE OF ANOTHER
CRITIC.

THE FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL OF
HEALTH AND NOW THE CHIEF OF
STAFF AT YORK CENTRAL HOSPITAL,
HE IS HAVE VERY, VERY CRITICAL,
THINK IT WOULD BE ACCURATE TO
SAY THE POLITICIZATION OF THIS
PROBLEM.
HE CITES A NUMBER OF THINGS THE
ONTARIO GOVERNMENT IN, HIS
MIND, HAS DONE WRONG.
INCLUDING THEIR OVER REACTION
TO THE PROBLEM.
THEIR POOR COMMUNICATION PLAN.
AND THE FACT THAT THEY THREW
PEOPLE INTO QUARANTINE AND SORT
OF, HE BELIEVES, LED THE PUBLIC
TO BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS A FAR
BIGGER PROBLEM THAN IT WAS AND
THAT AT THAT-- AND THAT MAY
HAVE CONTRIBUTE THE TO THE-- TO
THE W.H.O HAD THE RULING TO
SLAP A TRAVEL BAN ON TORONTO.
HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO IS THAT.

The caption changes to "Blair McCreadie. President, Ontario PC Party."

Blair is in his late thirties, clean-shaven and with short wavy graying hair. He wears a navy blue suit, blue shirt and a patterned tie.

He says I DON'T AGREE YESTERDAY.
YESTERDAY'S ANNOUNCEMENT WAS
ONE MORE STEP IN THE PROCESS
THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS GONE
THROUGH IN THE LAST THREE
WEEKS.
SINCE THE PREMIER DECLARED A
STATE OF EMERGENCY ON MARCH
26TH SO THAT ALL OF OUR HEALTH
RESOURCES WERE DIRECTED TO THIS
PROBLEM, THE TOP PRIORITIES OF
OUR GOVERNMENT HAVE BEEN TO
ENSURE THAT THE SPREAD OF THIS
DISEASE WAS CONTAINED.
AND THAT, UM, THAT THE HEALTH
OF ALL OF THOSE IN ONTARIO WAS
PROTECTED.
NOW, SINCE THAT TIME, UM, I
THINK THE PREMIER HAS BEEN OUT
THERE AND BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE
IN-- IN CALLING ON THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT FOR A COORDINATED
NATIONAL SARS STRATEGY.
UM, WE'VE ASKED FOR ACCESS TO
FEDERAL, UM, EMERGENCY FUNDS.
UM, AND-- AND WE'VE CALLED ON,
UM, ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
TO-- TO EXPAND THE E.I. TO
PROVIDE FOR--

Richard says YOU SHOULD BE LESS PARTISAN.
IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO CALL ON
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
IT'S A TOUGH LINE TO WALK.
WE HAVE FRONT HAD NOT LINE--
FRONT-LINE HEALTH WORKERS, FROM
WHAT I CAN TELL, AND I'M NOT AN
EXPERT , A VERY GOOD JOB AND A
HEROIC JOB.
ON A POLITICAL LEVEL, OBVIOUSLY
POLITICIANS CAN'T DID THAT.
BUT THE PREMIER OF THIS
PROVINCE, THE MAYOR AND THE
PRIME MINISTER OF THIS COUNTRY
ALL HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES, AND
THEIR JOB IS TO PROVIDE THE
MORAL LEADERSHIP TO MAKE SURE
A, WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE
CAN ON THE HEALTH SIDE AND
EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN ON THE
ECONOMIC AND IMPACT ON THE
COMMUNITY SIDE.
JUST TO SIT THERE AND SAY THAT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR
SOMEBODY ELSE SHOULD DO MORE,
IT'S A MORAL AND ETHICAL
LEADERSHIP.
I THINK THEY'VE ALL BEEN A BIT
TONE DEAF ON IT, FRANKLY.

Ruth says THEY FAILED TO ENGAGE AND
THERE'S NO SENSE THAT OUR
LEADER, FEDERALLY, PROVINCIALLY
AND MUNICIPAL, AND LET'S NOT
FORGET OUR ABSENT MAYOR, YOU
KNOW, UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT MUST
BE LIKE TO BE A NURSE IN A
HOSPITAL THAT'S HAVING TO GOWN
UP, AND WHOSE KIDS ARE BEING
TOLD DON'T COME TO SCHOOL AND
THE SCHOOL CONCERT.
IT'S JUST BEEN AN INCREDIBLE,
UM, EMOTIONAL PROBLEM AS WELL
AS A WORK STRAIN.
FOR AN AWFUL LOT OF PEOPLE.
AND I DON'T GET A SENSE THAT
THE SPOKES PEOPLE HAVE REALLY
UNDERSTOOD THAT, OTHER THAN
THE MEDICAL-- UNDERSTOOD THAT,
OTHER THAN THE MEDICAL OFFICERS
OF HEALTH.

Richard says PEOPLE SAY I WATCHED OUT
PREMIER EVES, AND SHOULDN'T
HAVE GONE GOLFING IN ARIZONA.
HEY , WHAT SHOULD I DO?
HUNT FOR EASTER EGGS ? THAT
WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT HIM.
BECAUSE YOU NEED TO LOOK LIKE
YOU'RE LEADING THE COMMUNITY.
UM, NOW IT'S NOT JUST THEIR
FAULT.
I THINK THAT, UM, I THINK THAT,
YOU KNOW, THAT POLITICALLY
INCORRECT TO DUMP ON MEDIA.
BUT PEOPLE IN TORONTO I THINK
HAVE A GOOD VIEW OF THIS.
PEOPLE ARE GOING ON LIVING
THEIR LIVES QUITE PRACTICALLY.
THE INTERNATIONAL AND CANADIAN
MEDIA HAVE HYPED THIS TO SUCH A
DEGREE THAT I LISTENED TO A
PIECE THAT ALL THE L.A.
REPORTERS AND OTHERS THOUGHT
THEY WOULD COME INTO A WAR
ZONE.
CAME HERE AND FOUND PEOPLE
DOING STUFF IN YOUR NORMAL
LIVE.

Ruth says YOU'RE DAMNED IF YOU DO AND
DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.
AND I WAS GOING TO JUMP IN ON
THE EARLIER QUESTION FOR BLAIR.
BECAUSE THINK FOR PEOPLE TO
CRITICIZE THE POLITICIANS FOR
HAVING GENERATED THIS IS
SOMEWHAT UNFAIR.
THAT'S BEEN CRITICIZED FOR
BEING ABSENT AND LEAVING IT FOR
THE MEDICAL PEOPLE.
AND THE MEDICAL PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN RESPONDING TO THE APPETITE
OF THE MEDIA FOR THESE DAILY
BRIEFINGS.
IN A BY A I AGREE THAT I THINK
WE'VE BROUGHT THE INTERNATIONAL
ATTENTION ON OURSELVES BY THE
WAY IN WHICH WE'VE REPORTED IT
CONSTANTLY.
BUT SAYING WHO'S TO BLAME
DOESN'T GET US ANYWHERE.

Paula says WHAT DO YOU DO?

Blair says I DON'T THINK IT'S AN ISSUE
OF SAYING WHO'S TO BLAME.
I THINK THAT, UM, THAT ON THE--
TO ADDRESS RICHARD'S EARLIER
COMMENT ABOUT SORT OF BEING
LEADER, SHOWING LEADERSHIP IN
THE COMMUNITY.
I THINK THAT THAT WAS PART OF
THE REASON THAT THE PREMIER
CAME OUT AND MADE THE
ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE DID
YESTERDAY.
PAUSE I THINK THAT OVER THE
LAST THREE WEEKS, UM, THERE
BEEN CONCERNS EXPRESSED ABOUT
THE IMPACT THAT THIS IS GOING
TO HAVE ON ONTARIO'S BUSINESS
COMMUNITY.
AND I THINK THAT THIS
GOVERNMENT HAS ACTED BY PUTTING
IN 10 MILLION DOLLARS TO PROMOTE-- TO
PROMOTE TORONTO AS A SAFE PLACE
TO VISIT AND INVEST.
AND WE GOT THOSE TO MEET WITH
EFFECTED BUSINESS PEOPLE IN THE
COMMUNITY AND ADDRESS THE
PROBLEM.

Paula says LET ME JUMP IN HERE A
QUICK SECOND.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE
OPPOSITION'S CALL TO BRING PACK
THE HOUSE SO THAT, YOU KNOW,
ALL-- BRING BACK THE HOUSE SO
THAT, 10 THAT ALL MEMBERS CAN
TURN THE ATTENTION TO SARS?
DO YOU THINK THAT'S A SENSIBLE
IDEA?
OR IS THAT THE OPPOSITION NOW
TRYING TO CAPITALIZE ON THE SARS
PROBLEM?

Blair says I THINK I'M A LITTLE
DISAPPOINTED WITH THE WAY THAT
SOME OF THE OPPOSITION PARTIES
HAVE TRIED TO POLITICIZE THIS
ISSUE.
I THINK THAT WAS SHOWN BY
DALTON MCGUINTY'S APPEARANCE AT
TORONTO CITY COUNCIL YESTERDAY.
WHICH, UM, I THINK AT BEST
COULD BE CALLED GRAND STANDING.
AND AT WORST WAS, COULD BE
CALLED AMBULANCE CHASING.

Ruth says LET ME LOOK TO WHERE WE GO
FROM HERE AND AT THE RISK OF
POLITIZIC-- POLITICIZING, I
WANT TO CHECK BACK ON A
RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS MADE
TO THE GOVERNMENT A YEAR AGO:
THERE SHOULD BE BODIES MADE IN
A PURPOSE TO DEVELOP
COORDINATED FASHION EMERGENCY
CONTROL PLANS FOR THE CONTROL
OF OR RESPONSE TO INFECTIOUS
DISEASES AND PUBLIC HEALTH
HAZARDS.
THAT WAS JUSTICE O'CONNOR AFTER
WALKERTON.
THE HOUSE ALL LAST YEAR DIDN'T
MOVE ON THAT.
THE GOVERNMENT MADE THE MOVE ON
IT.
SO IF WE CAN BRING THE HOUSE
BACK AND SAY , WHAT CAN WE NOW
DO TO STOP THIS HAPPENING
AGAIN, THEN THERE'S SOME
MERIT IN THAT.

Richard says I THINK YOUR POINT'S A
REALLY GOOD ONE.
ALL THE THINGS, ANYTHING THAT
THE PREMIER COULD DO, AND THE
MAYOR COULD DO AND THE PRIME
MINISTER COULD DO COULD JUST
SHOW THAT THEY'RE SITTING DOWN
WITH ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.
BRINGING BACK THE LEGISLATURE.
HOW COULD YOU SAY NO TO THAT?
THEY HAVEN'T SAT SINCE
DECEMBER.
I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT THE
JUSTIFICATION FOR THEM BEING
OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE IS.
LET ALONE IN THE MIDST OF SARS.
SITTING DOWN WITH THE MEDICAL
OFFICERS OF HEALTH.
I THINK THEY'VE STARTED TO TURN
THE CORNER ON THIS.
ONE OF THE LESSON-- THEY'VE
DONE A GOOD JOB.
I'M SURE THE NEXT TIME IT
HAPPENS, WE CAN DO A BETTER
JOB.
FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATIONS.

Paula says WE HAD CHANGES IN THE
WALKERTON SITUATION.
AND COMING UP, ALMOST THREE
YEARS LATER, CHARGES ARE LAID
IN THE DEATHS OF SEVEN PEOPLE
IN THE WALKERTON WATER TRAGEDY.

Another clip shows Premier Elves speaking.

He says THERE ARE A LOT OF
UNFORTUNATE THINGS THAT
HAPPENED IN WALKERTON.
AND PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIVES.
UM, WE DON'T, AND NOR SHOULD
WE, HAVE ANY INPUT INTO WHAT
THE OPP DECIDES TO DO WITH
RESPECT TO CHARS BEING LAID
AGAINST INDIVIDUAL.
UM, WE ARE DOING, AS I'VE JUST
SAID, THINK THE APPROPRIATE
THINGS AS WE GO FORWARD.
WITH SAFE DRINKING WATER IN THE
PROVINCE.
AND EVERY COMMUNITY.

Paula says THE OPP ANNOUNCED
THIS WEEK 12 CHARGES.
INCLUDING PUBLIC ENDANGERMENT,
BREACH OF TRUST AND FORGERY
HAVE BEEN LAID IN THE WAKE OF
WALKERTON.
STAN AND FRANK KOEBEL, BOTH OF
WHOM WORKED AT THE WALKERTON
PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION,
ADMITTED TO FALSIFYING WATER
RECORD AFTER E.COLI FELLED
SEVEN AND MADE THOUSANDS SICK IN
IN-- DO YOU THINK THE CHARGES
WILL BRING SOME CLOSURE SO THE
WALKERTON ISSUE?

Blair says I THINK IT'S ONE MORE STEP
IN THE PROCESS.
THE INQUIRY THAT JUSTICE
O'CONNOR CAME OUT WITH LAST YEAR
YEAR, OUR GOVERNMENT HAS
CLEARLY SAID THAT WE'RE GOING TO
TO-- WITH LAST YEAR, OUR
GOVERNMENT HAS CLEARLY SAID
THAT WE'RE GOING TO PUT IN ALL
THE RECOMMENDATION INSIDE THAT
REPORT.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE SAFE
DRINKING WATER ACT.
WILL SPEND 50 MILLION DOLLARS IN THE
NEXT THREE YEARS TO MAKE SURE
THAT-- THAT ONTARIANS HAVE SAFE
DRINKING WATER.
IN THE BACKDROP OF THAT, THE
OPP INVESTIGATION WAS
CONTINUING AND THE CULMINATION
IN THAT WAS THE CHARGES WE SAW
LAID TWO DAYS AGO.

Paula says RUTH; IT ENOUGH?
THERE ARE CRITICS, INCLUDING
THOSE IN WALKERTON, SAYS THE
CHARGES DON'T APPROACH THE
SERIOUS NEST OF WHAT--

Ruth says AS FAR AS THE CHARGES, THESE
ARE FAIRLY TECHNICAL CHARGES.
IT SEND THE MESSAGE TO THE
THOSE IN WALKERTON THAT AS
ALWAYS, IT'S ALWAYS THE PEOPLE
ON THE FRONT LINE THAT GET
CHARGED.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE
DIFFICULT TO CHARGE, AND I'LL
LEAVE IT TO THE LAWYERS THAT
COULD HAVE DECIDED WHAT TO LAY.
THERE WERE WARNINGS IN
WALKERTON.
INSTANCES IN THE BUREAUCRACY
AND POLITICIAN WHO IS MADE
DECISIONS NOT TO PROCEED WITH
ORDER TO CLEAN UP THE WATER
TREATMENT CENTRE.
OR TO DO THINGS.
AND SO THE PEOPLE ABOVE THE
FRONT LINE, UM, HAVE NOT BEEN
CHARGED.
AND TO-- WITH RESPECT TO
CLOSURE, CLOSURE'S GOING TO
TAKE A LONG TIME IN WALKERTON.
BECAUSE THERE'S STILL PEOPLE
WHO ARE FEELING THE ILL EFFECTS
OF THE DISEASE.

Paula says HOW ABOUT FOR FORMER
PREMIER MIKE HARRIS?
HE CERTAINLY WAS A TARGET
DURING THIS.
IS-- CAN HE MOVE ON NOW?

Richard says THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK THAT THE PROBLEM WITH
THIS IS THAT RUTH INDICATES, I
SUSPECT THAT THE KOEBELS ARE
THE ONLY PEOPLE CHARGED IN
THIS.
AND I THINK THAT PROBABLY WON'T
GIVE THE PEOPLE OF WALKERTON
MUCH OF A BIG STEP TOWARDS
CLOSURE.
UM, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT
PREMIER HARRIS SHOULD BE
CHARGED.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT AT ALL.
BUT THERE ARE-- THERE'S VERY
LITTLE OF A PROCESS FOR
POLITICAL ACCOUNTABILITY, OTHER
THAN THE ULTIMATE ONE, AN
ELECTION, FOR WHAT HAPPENED
THERE.
AND OBVIOUSLY I THINK THE
CONCLUSION OF JUSTICE O'CONNOR
IS THAT THE CULPABILITY WAS
THERE.
AND THERE WERE BIG ERRORS, LIKE
FALSIFYING ERRORS.
AND RIGHT UP THE FOOD CHAIN TO
THE CABINET AND MAYBE EVEN THE
PREMIER.
AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT
FOLLOWED THE RESULTS OF THE
O'CONNOR PROBE.
IN FACT, I THINK THAT FEARING
THE DISAPPEARANCE.
THEIR-- DISAPPEARANCE OF THEIR
POLITICAL BASE, THEY'RE FAILING
TO FOLLOW A VERY IMPORTANT
REGISTERS.
THAT IS WITH-- RECOMMENDATION.
THAT IS WITH FARM NUTRIENTS,
THE RUN OFF THAT CONTAMINATES
WATER, THAT'S NOT FOLLOWED
BECAUSE THE-- BECAUSE OF THE
SIGNIFICANT COST, FRANKLY IT,
WOULD REPRESENT TO FARMERS
ACROSS THE PROVINCE.

Blair says I WAS GOING TO SAY, THOUGH,
I THINK THAT THERE-- THIS IS
OBVIOUSLY AN ON GOING PROCESS.
I THINK THAT EVEN EARLIER THIS
WEEK, THE GOVERNMENT RELEASED A
DRAFT REPORT ON SOURCE
PROTECTION FOR WATERSHEDS.
WHICH I THINK INCLUDED AN
ADDITIONAL 55 RECOMMENDATIONS.
I DON'T THINK ALL OF THE
RECOMMENDATIONS ARE IMPLEMENTED
AT THIS POINT.
BUT WE'VE FURTHER SAID THAT
WE'LL IMPLEMENT THE
RECOMMENDATIONS.

Ruth says -THAT WAS THE COMMITMENT, BUT
WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST
YEAR IS SOME PROGRESS.
AND THEN STEPPING BACK.
I MEAN, ON THE NUTRIENT
MANAGEMENT THING, UM, IT'S BILL
MURDOCH, THE MPP IN THE AREA OF
WALKERTON WHO WAS BOASTING OF
HAVING SUCCEEDING IN DELAYED
THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE
REGULATIONS.
AND-- AND WHAT JUSTICE O'CONNOR
TALKED ABOUT WAS THE NEED TO
PROTECT THE SOURCE OF OUR
WATER.
THIS SOURCE MANAGEMENT PLAN
THAT'S COME IN IS GOOD ON
PAPER.
BUT THE ACTIONS OF THIS
GOVERNMENT IN THE TAY RIVER
DOWN IN EASTERN ONTARIO, THE
MINISTER OF THE ENVIRONMENT
OVER RULED AN EXCELLENT
RECOMMENDATION FROM A TRIBUNAL
ABOUT NOT ALLOWING WATER
TO BE
TAKEN.
THAT COMPLETELY GOES AGAINST
THE RECOMMENDATION THAT JUSTICE
O'CONNOR WAS MAKING.

Paula says WHAT ABOUT THE
BIGGEST CONCERN, BLAIR, AFTER
THE BROTHERS ADMITTED TO
FALSIFYING DOCUMENTS, THERE'S
WIDESPREAD FEAR THAT THE
GOVERNMENT WASN'T PROVIDING A
DOUBLE CHECK.
THAT THERE WASN'T SOMEBODY
THERE SO SAY, LOOK, SOMEBODY'S
DOING THIS WRONG.
HAS THAT BEEN FIXED?

Blair says LOOK, AGAIN, I THINK THE
SAFE DRINKING WATER ACT I THINK
GOES A LONG WAY TO DOING THAT.
WE SAID ALL ALONG THAT WE'RE
GOING TO BRING IN-- WELL, WE'VE
BROUGHT IN COMPREHENSIVE
LEGISLATION ON THIS ISSUE.
IT IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE
HAVE TOUGH NEW ENFORCEMENT
STANDARDS.
WE'VE GONE A LONG WAY TO DO
THAT.
THIRD STEP I THINK IN THAT
PROCESS IS MANAGEABLE
IMPLEMENTATION.
I THINK THAT'S THE PHASE THAT
THE GOVERNMENT IS IN RIGHT NOW.

Richard says I DON'T KNOW THAT IT HAS
BEEN YET.
BECAUSE WHAT YOU WOULD NEED TO
DO THAT, AS YOU CORRECTLY
IDENTIFIED, PAULA, IS YOU NEED
THE MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT
OFFICIAL WHO IS ARE ESSENTIALLY
DOING A DOUBLE CHECK, SPOT
CHECKS ON EACH OF THE PEOPLE IN
THOSE POSITIONS ACROSS THE
PROVINCE.
I DON'T THINK THE MINISTRY OF
ENVIRONMENT HAS BEEN STAFFED UP
TO THE POINT THAT THEY CAN DO
THAT EFFECTIVELY YET.

Paula says IS ANOTHER WALKERTON
POSSIBLE?

Ruth says YES, THE E.COLI BACTERIA
THAT WAS THE CAUSE IN WALKERTON
WASN'T KNOWN 30 YEARS AGO.
SARS WASN'T KNOWN A YEAR AGO.
SO THERE'S FIXING THE EN OF A
PIPE IS THE MENTALITY THAT HAS
GOT US TO THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE
TODAY.
IT'S LOOKING AT THE WHOLE
CONTINUUM.
AND MOVING TO PROTECT THE
SOURCE.
THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID
ANOTHER WALKERTON OR A DIFFERENT
VARIATION OF A WALKERTON.
THAT'S WHAT I THINK WORRIES THE
PEOPLE IN WALK YOU ARE TON.
WHO ARE-- WHO ARE AS CONCERNED
ABOUT THIS NOT HAPPENING TO ANY
OTHER COMMUNITY.
AS THEY ARE-- AS THEY WERE TO--
ABOUT BRINGING CLOSE TOWER
THEIR OWN PROBLEMS.

Paula says ONE MORE THING THIS
WEEK.
WE HAVE NEW POLLING NUMBERS OUT
FROM IPSUS REID.
THEY HAVE-- THEY DO HAVE THE
TORIES WORRIED, I KNOW THAT.
IT SEEMS THEY SUNK TO THEIR
LOWEST LEVEL OF VOTER SUPPORT
SINCE THE '95 ELECTION.

Statistics appear on screen.

Paula continues THE LIBERALS ARE LEADING WITH
THE SUPPORT OF 48 PERCENT OF THE
PUBLIC.
THAT IS A-- THAT IS UP 5 POINTS
SINCE FEBRUARY.
THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE FALLEN 5
POINTS TO 31 PERCENT.
THE NDP IS AT 16 PERCENT.
GREEN PARTY WOULD GET 4 PERCENT OF
VOTER SUPPORT.
AND 9 PERCENT ARE UNDECIDED.
AND HERE IS A MAJOR
DEVELOPMENT.
WHEN ASKED WHO WOULD MAKE THE
BEST PREMIER, 35 PERCENT SAID EVES,
BUT 32 PERCENT ANSWERED McGUINTY
IPSUS REID CALLS THAT A
STATISTICAL DEED HEAT.
19 PERCENT CHOSE HAMPTION.
AND HERE'S A NUMBER CAMPAIGN
TEAMS PUT A LOT OF STOCK IN-
63 PERCENT SAID IT'S TIME FOR A
CHANGE.
AND IPSUS REID FOUND THAT THE
LIBERALS LEAD IN ALL REGIONS.
I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS BY LAW,
IPSUS REID POLLED 1,000 ONTARIO
ADULTS BETWEEN APRIL-- APRIL
12TH AND APRIL 19TH THIS YEAR.
JIM FLAHERTY , WHO RAN AGAINST
EVES FOR THE PC LEADERSHIP SAYS
THAT THE TORIES ARE UNITED.

A fast clip shows Jim Flaherty, Minister of Enterprise, at a conference. He’s in his late forties, clean-shaven and with short wavy brown hair. He wears a blue suit, white shirt and striped tie.

He says WE HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE IN
THE PREMIER.
WE'RE A GREAT TEAM AT QUEEN'S
PARK.
WE HAVE A STRONG CABINET.
THE LEADERSHIP CANDIDATES HAVE
COME TOGETHER OVER THE COURSE
OF THE PAST YEAR.
UM, AND MANY, MANY, IF YOU WANT
TO TALK ABOUT THAT, I MEAN,
MANY OF THE LEADERSHIP
CANDIDATES ARE PLAYING
IMPORTANT ROLES IN THE
GOVERNMENT.
WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO-- TO,
YOU KNOW TO, CONSULTING WITH
THE PEOPLE AS PART OF THE TEAM
EVES.
UM, WHAT-- WHEN THE ELECTION IS
CALLED.

Paula says NOW, RICHARD, YOU
HAVE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS-- I
CAUGHT YOU TALKING THERE--
YOU'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS A
LONG TIME.
TELL US WHAT YOU THINK ACCOUNTS
FOR THE DROP IN TORY SUPPORT?

Richard says WELL, PROBABLY YOUR LAST,
UM, LAST SLIDE THERE, PAULA,
WHICH WAS THE TIME FOR A CHANGE
THING.
WE SAW THE SAME KIND OF THING
IN THE QUEBEC ELECTION.
THAT BEING SAID, LET ME PUT MY
FIRST DISCLAIMER ARM THE TABLE
HERE, YOU KNOW, THIS-- THIS
WOULD KNOW THE-- AROUND THE
TABLE HERE, YOU KNOW, THIS
WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST TIME THAT
THE LIBERALS LED IN THE OPINION
POLLS.
MY FRIEND WILL SAY IT-- WE HAVE
A LOT OF WORK LEFT TO DO.
WHAT I THINK IS INTERESTING
ABOUT IT IS A, THERE'S A STRONG
DESIRE FOR CHANGE IN THE
PROVINCE.
THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT
THING.
SECONDLY, FOR YEARS NOW,
LITERALLY, AND CERTAINLY SINCE
EVES HAS BEEN ELECTED, THE
TORIES HAVE BEEN TELLING US
THAT THEIR STRONG SUIT IS EVES
VERSUS MCGUINTY.
AS THE SLIDE SHOWED, THEY'RE IN
A VIRTUAL DEAD HEAT.
WHY IS THAT HAPPENING?
A COMBINATION OF TWO THINGS.
THE FACT THAT THE PREMIER HAS
HAD A DIFFICULT YEAR.
AND HASN'T CLEARLY, YOU KNOW,
IDENTIFIED WHAT HE STANDS FOR.
AND THE STRONG DESIRE FOR
CHANGE.
AND THAT MCGUINTY AT THIS IS
HARD AT WORK DAY IN AND DAY OUT
AND PUT THE PLATFORM OUT THERE
IN ADVANCE.
THAT'S STARTING TO SHOW,
STARTING TO SHOW IN THE POLLS.

Paula says HOW-- WHEN YOU GET
THESE POLL RESULTS BACK, AND WE
HAVE HEARD A MILLION THINGS NO,
POLL REALLY COUNTS UNTIL
ELECTION DAY AND THAT SORT OF
STUFF.
BUT WHEN YOU GET BACK-- POLL
REALLY COUNTS UNTIL ELECTION
DAY AND THAT SORT OF STUFF.
3WU WHEN YOU GET IT BACK, HOW
DO YOU EXPLAIN IT TO EACH
OTHER.
HAD A COUPLE OF WEEKS THERE.
PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE THE BUDGET.
I'M SURE WE CAN PICK THE
SUPPORT BACK UP.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO EACH OTHER
ABOUT IT?

Blair says OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SOME
CHALLENGING NUMBERS IN THAT, IN
THAT POLL.

Paula says IS THAT WHAT YOU-- IS
THAT WHAT YOU SAY TO EACH
OTHER?
MY GOODNESS, THESE NUMBERS ARE
CHALLENGING.

Blair says NO, NO, BUT THERE'S
CHALLENGING NUMBERS FOR THE
GOVERNMENT IN THAT POLL.
BUT I THINK WHEN WE FEET FOOT--
WHEN WE GET INTO THE PROVINCIAL
ELECTION, I THINK THERE WILL BE
THREE REASONS WHY THE EVES'
GOVERNMENT WILL BE REELECTED.
ONE, THE GOVERNMENT HAS A SOLID
ECONOMIC RECORD.
I COULD TALK ABOUT FIVE
BALANCED BUDGETS AND A MILLION
NEW JOBS.
AND THAT'S GOING TO COUNT FOR
SOMETHING.
I THINK, SECONDLY, UM, WHEN OUR
PLATFORM IS ULTIMATELY
RELEASED, I-- SECONDLY, UM,
WHEN OUR PLATFORM IS ULTIMATELY
RELEASED, PEOPLE IN ONTARIO
WILL SEE THAT EVES IS THE ONLY
LEADER OUT THERE CAMPAIGNING ON
TAX CUTS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
HAVE THE STRONG ECONOMIC
FUNDAMENTALS TO INVEST IN
PRIORITY SERVICES.
THIRD, UM, I THINK WHEN WE GET
INTO AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN, AND
PEOPLE ARE FACED WITH A CHOICE
OF PICKING ERNIE EVES OR DALTON
MCGUINTY, I'M CONFIDENT THAT--
THAT I KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER'S
GOING TO BE TEN TIMES OUT OF
TEN.
AND IT'S GOING TO BE ERNIE
EVES.

Paula says WHY ARE YOU SO
CONFIDENT?
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A
DEAD HEAT?

Blair says THINK-- THERE'S NOTHING I
DON'T THINK SO SUPPORT MISTER
MCGUINTY RECENT INCREASE IN
THOSE NUMBERS.
AND I THINK-- I THINK THAT WHEN
WE GET INTO THE CAMPAIGN, THINK
MISTER MCGUINTY'S UNTESTED.
AND WE'LL WAIT TO SEE WHAT
HAPPENS.

Paula says WHEN IS THE CAMPAIGN
CAMPAIGN GOING TO START?
BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO START
SOON.
AND THEN THE POLLS DON'T LOOK
SO GOOD.
NOW WHEN WILL IT START?

Blair says I THINK ONLY ONE PERSON,
PAULA, KNOWS FOR SURE.
BUT WHENEVER THAT ELECTION IS
CALLED, WE'RE PREPARED TO GO
OUT THERE AND--

Paula says WOULDN'T I HAVE BEEN
A LUCKY WOMAN IF YOU JUST TOLD
ME THAT.
DO YOU BUY ANY OF THIS?

Ruth says I DON'T BUY ANY OF THAT.
HAVE HAVING BEEN IN THE
POSITION TO SEE BAD POLLS WHEN
YOU GET READY FOR AN ELECTION,
THIS IS SERIOUS FOR THE
GOVERNMENT.
SERIOUS BECAUSE IT CONTRIBUTES
TO THE FEELING THAT THE
GOVERNMENT CAN'T GET REELECTED.
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE LAST
COUPLE OF WEEKS, PEOPLE HAVEN'T
BEEN SAYING TO ME, UM, CAN THEY
THEY-- CAN WE REALLY DEFEAT
THEM.
THERE'S NOW A SENSE THAT THEY
ARE BEATABLE.
AND THAT'S HARD TO REVERSE.
BUT I THINK THAT'S INTERESTING
ABOUT THE POLLS, TOO, WHEN YOU
SPEAK TO THE LIBERALS AND I'M
GLAD RICHARD MADE THE POINT
THAT LIBERALS HAVE BLOWN LARGE
LEADS MANY TIMES.

Richard says I DIDN'T SAY BLOWN.

Richard says SORRY.
LOST THEM.
BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT
THEIR FIGURES, IS THE
DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN THE
PERCEPTION BETWEEN THE LEADERS
AND THE PARTY, BOTH HAMPTON AND
EVE ARE RATED AHEAD OF THEIR
PARTY.
WHERE AS FOR McGUINTY AT THIS,
THERE'S A 16 POINT SPREAD
BETWEEN THOSE WHO THINK THAT
THE LIBERALS WOULD BE THE
GOVERNMENT AND THOSE THINK
THAT DALTON McGUINTY AT THIS--
I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE
TELLING IN THE ELECTION.

Paula says HOW GREAT IT-- IS IT
FOR YOU THAT THE GREEN PARTY IS POLLING
4 PERCENT HERE?

Ruth says THE GREEN PARTY HAS ALWAYS
POLLED IN THOSE NUMBERS I
THINK.
IN THE LAST COUPLE OF ELECTION.
WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTION DAY,
UM, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME
PEOPLE WHO WANT TO VOTE A
SINGLE-ISSUE PARTY.
THERE WILL BE OTHERS WHO WHEN
IT GETS TO THE POINTS WHO HAVE
TO MARK A BALLOT, I WOULD
RATHER TO VOTE FOR SOMEBODY WHO
I THINK HAS A CHANCE TO GET
ELECTED.

Richard says IT'S NOT EASY FOR MCGUINTY
TO RUN AHEAD OF HIS PARTY WHEN
HIS PARTY IS RUNNING AT 48.
EASIER IF HIS PARTY--

Ruth says NICE IN THE 40'S.

Richard says BUT IT'S HARD TO DO THAT
WHEN YOU'RE THAT, WHEN YOU'RE
16 POINTS AHEAD OF THE OTHER
PARTIES OR MORE.
BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE
LIBERALS WILL WIN THE NEXT
ELECTION.
WHAT IT MEANS IS A COUPLE OF
THINGS.
IT MEANS AS RUTH SAID, A VERY
GOOD POINT.
THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE
ELECTION-- PEOPLE SAID TO ME
FOR YEARS, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE
TO CLEAR OUT THE NDP AND
COALESCE.
NO WAY YOU CAN BEAT THESE GUYS.
THEY DON'T SAY THAT ANYMORE.
STRONG STORY FOR CHANGE.
THAT'S NATURAL.
GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN TWO TERMS.
SEEKING A THIRD TERM.
THAT'S RARE IN CANADIAN
POLITICS THAT THEY WOULD BE
REELECTED.
FINALLY OVER THE LAST YEAR, MISTER
EVES HAS FLIP FLOPPED ON HYDRO
AND PRIVATIZATION AND
DEREGULATION AND EIGHT MILLION
DIFFERENT THINGS AND PEOPLE
DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF A
PREMIER HE INTENDS TO BE OR
WANTS TO BE.

Paula says INTERESTING, THOUGH
TO, HEAR THE LIBERALS.
THEY'RE VERY OCCASIONS,
RICHARD, BECAUSE EVERYBODY
REMEMBERS '90 AND PEOPLE
THINKING NICE LIBERAL LEADER.
AND IT COULD BE A CAKE WALK.
IT TURNED OUT NOT TO BE.
WON'T BE A CAKE WALK.
LIBERALS WON'T BE CONFIDENT.
YOU SOUND MORE CONFIDENT,
BLAIR.
BUT I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU FEEL
ABOUT THAT 63 PERCENT.
BECAUSE SOMETIMES EVEN IF YOU
HAVE A GREAT LEADER, IF PEOPLE
WAKE UP AND SAY, GOSH, I'M
TIRED OF THIS GOVERNMENT, I
DON'T LIKE THE LOOK OF THEM
ANYMORE.
I'M SICK OF HEARING FROM THEM.
I JUST WANTS SOMETHING NEW.
63 PERCENT.
THAT'S A BIG SNOWBALL.

Blair says I MEAN, LOOK, I GUESS TO
ADDRESS RICHARD'S CAUTION, I
THINK I WOULD PROBABLY BE
CAUTIOUS IF I HAD MCGUINTY AS A
LEADER, TOO.
BUT THINK THAT--

Paula says OH.
DID YOU CATCH THAT?

Richard says YES.
AND I THINK YOU HAVE A PREMIER
RUNNING SERIOUSLY BEHIND IN THE
POLLS.
AND HE SHOULD BE 10, 20 POINTS
AHEAD OF THE LEADERSHIP.
NORMALLY THE SAYS-- THAT'S THE.

Blair says WHEN WITH-- WHEN WE GET INTO
THE CAMPAIGN PERIOD, AGAIN,
THOSE IN ONTARIO WILL BE FACED
WITH A VERY CLEAR CHOICE.
THAT IS ONLY ONE PARTY WILL GO
OUT THERE AND CAMPAIGN ON TAX
CUTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE
ECONOMIC FUNDAMENTALS ARE
THERE.
SO THAT WE CAN KEEP INVESTING
IN-- IN KEY SERVICES LIKE
HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION.
AND, AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT IT
ON THE SHOW LAST WEEK, THE
GOVERNMENT IS INVESTING
RECORD AMOUNTS IN BOTH OF
THOSE AREAS.

Richard MAYBE, JUST MAYBE THE PEOPLE
OF ONTARIO WON'T BUY THE DOUBLE
SPEAK THAT WE'LL TAKE LESS
MONEY IN TO PUT MORE MONEY OUT.
TAKE LESS REVENUE IN TO CUT
YOUR TAXES AND TAKE MORE--

Ruth says THE PEOPLE IN ONTARIO WILL
HAVE A CLEAR CHOICE.
THEY'LL HAVE A CHOICE FOR ONLY
ONE PARTY THAT'S FIRMLY
COMMITTED TO PUBLIC SERVICES
AND PROVISION OF PUBLIC POWER
AND PUBLIC FACILITIES .
AND SO THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A
VERY INTERESTING ELECTION.
AND NOBODY SHOULD COUNT ON
WINNING.

Paula says THAT WAS RUTH GRIER.
I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL SO
MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
AND, UM, AND HOPE YOU'LL BE
BACK NEXT WEEK.
THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M PAULA TODD.
JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME FOR
ANOTHER EDITION OF "4TH
READING."

Music plays as the end credits roll.

Queen’s Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

Editor, Ted Ambrose.

CEP LOCAL 72m.

Canadian Media Guild.

TNG Canada CWA.

Watch: SARS Fallout