Transcript: Ontario's Budget | Mar 23, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON “4TH
READING.”
TRAMPLING ON TRADITION.

In a clip, the Finance Minister says TAKING THE BUDGET TO THE PEOPLE.

Steve says IS THE TORIES' MADE
FOR TV BUDGET DAMAGING
DEMOCRACY IN ONTARIO?

Steve, Ruth, Richard, and another panelist sit with a guest around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a black coat over a black shirt.

Ruth Grier is in her sixties, with short white hair.
Richard Mahoney is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short white hair.

Steve says GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
THIS IS “4TH READING” FOR THIS
WEEK.
WHAT THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT HOPED WOULD BE A
NEAT DISTINCTIVE WAY OF
PARENTHESIS THIS YEAR'S BUDGETS
HAS TURNED INTO A PUBLIC
RELATIONS NIGHTMARE.
EVER SINCE THE PREMIER
ANNOUNCED THE BUNT WOULDN'T BE
PRESENTED IN THE HOUSE BUT
RATHER SOMEWHERE IN THE TORONTO
AREA, ON SATELLITE AND
AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET, THE
CRITICISM HAS BEEN UNRELENTING.
EVEN THE SPEAKER OF THE
LEGISLATURE, A VETERAN TORY M
PP SAYS THE MOVE MAKES HIM
QUESTION ERNIE EVES' FITNESS TO
BE PREMIER N A MOMENT, WE'LL
ASK THE FINANCE MINISTER FOR
ONTARIO WHY THE UNPRECEDENTED
ROLL OUT FOR WHAT WILL
CERTAINLY BE THE LAST BUDGETS
BEFORE AN ELECTION.
FIRST, SOME BACKGROUND.

In a clip, Ernie Eves gives a statement.

He says THE BUDGETS ITSELF WILL BE
DELIVERED IN THE COMMUNITY AT--
TO THE PEOPLE OF THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO.

Steve says THE TORIES HAVE BEEN
BLASTED FOR THEIR DECISION TO
DELIVER THE BUDGETS FROM A TV
STUDIO RATHER THAN FROM THE
LEGISLATURE.
CRITICS CALL THIS UNPRECEDENTED
MOVE UNDEMOCRATIC AND FEAR
MPP'S WILL BE DENYED THE
CHANCE-- DENIED THE CHANCE TO
DEBATE THE BUDGET IN THE HOUSE.

Now a politician speaks in an interview.
A caption reads “Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader.”
Howard is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair.

He says WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT
SPITTING ON 800 YEARS OF
CONSTITUTIONAL HISTORY BECAUSE
THEY'RE AFRAID TO FACE THE
PEOPLE.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE
THEIR BUDGET ANALYZED AND
EXAMINED.

The caption changes to "Sean Conway, MPP. Liberal. Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke."
Sean is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair and glasses.

He says WHAT REALLY IS GOING ON HERE
IS HAD A ERNIE EVES AND JANET E
C KER ARE PLANNING AN ELECTION.
AND THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO--
TO TAKE THEIR PLATFORM, UM,
DRESS UP AS A BUDGET.
BUT DON'T WANT TO BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT IS IN IT.

Steve says EVES' MOST SCATHING
CRITIC IS GARY CARR BEINGS THE
SPEAKER.
WHO APPEARED ON “STUDIO 2.”
EARLIER THIS WEEK.

In a clip from a previous interview, Gary Carr speaks to Steve.
A caption reads “Gary Carr. Speaker of the House.”
Gary is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair.

He says I'VE SEEN AN EROSION IN THE
POWERS OF THE LEGISLATURE.
I'M EMBARRASSED TO BE A PART OF
THE PARTY THAT DOES THIS YEAR
IN THE 2003.

Steve says BUT MOST TORIES SAY
THEY SUPPORT EVES' DECISION.

The caption changes to "Garfield Dunlop, MPP. PC, Simcoe-North."
Garfield is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair.

He says I DON'T THINK YOU'LL EVER
SEE AS A BUDGETS AS DEMOCRATIC
AS THIS ONE.
BECAUSE THERE WILL BE SO MUCH
ATTENTION PAID TO THIS BUDGET.
THAT'S THE IMPORTANT THING
HERE.
IT'S WHAT'S IN THE BUDGET, NOT
WHERE IT'S READ.

Steve says AND JANET ECKER
says THAT DEMOCRACY IN ONTARIO
ISN'T ERODING, BUT EVOLVING.

In a statement to the press, Ecker says WE'RE TAKING THE BUDGET TO
THE PEOPLE.
IT'S A NEW STEP AND IT'S
IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE
GOVERNMENT'S BUDGETARY POLICY
IS DONE AS IT ALWAYS IS IN
LEGISLATURE THROUGH THE
LEGISLATION AND DEBATE AND PASS
OF BILLS AND THAT PROCESS WILL
BE OBSERVED AS IT SHOULD BE.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Steve says IS IT BUSINESS MORE OR
LESS AS USUAL AS THE FINANCE
MINISTER SUGGESTS OR DOES IT
REPRESENT SOMETHING MORE
UNDEMOCRATIC FLYING IN THE FACE
OF TRADITION.
LET'S ASK THE MINISTER OF
FINANCE, JANET ECKER.

Janet says THANK YOU.

She’s in her forties, with short blond hair and glasses. She’s wearing a purple blazer over a cream blouse.

Steve says AND FORMER NDP
CABINET MINISTER, RUTH GRIER
AND RICHARD MAHONEY.
AND THE FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO
MIKE HARRIS AND NOW WITH A LAW
FIRM.
WHY ARE YOU ROLLING OUT THE
BUDGET THIS WAY?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Janet Ecker. Minister of Finance."

Janet says WELL, THIS IS A BUDGET THAT
WILL TALK ABOUT CREATING JOBS
AND INVESTING IN THE TWO
PRIORITIES THAT ARE MOST
IMPORTANT TO--

Steve says I KNOW.
WHY ARE YOU ROLLING IT OUT THE
WAY YOU ARE.

Janet says I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.
BECAUSE THAT'S A MESSAGE THAT
WE WANT TO TAKE DIRECTLY TO
PEOPLE.
AND THE PREMIER FELT THAT-- THAT
BASED ON THE FACT THAT-- THAT
HE HAS LAUNCHED THE MOST
EXTENSIVE CONSULTATION, UM, ON
A NUMBER OF ISSUES, WE HAVE THE
MOST EXTENSIVE PRE-BUDGET
CONSULTATION ON THIS BUDGET.
OVER 17 CITIES I WAS IN.
I TALK TO OVER 1300 PEOPLE
INDIVIDUALLY MYSELF.
WHO REPRESENTED EVERY SECTOR
IN-- IN ONTARIO SOCIETY, QUITE
FRANKLY.

Steve says I'M GOING TO
INTERRUPT AGAIN.
I GRANT YOU ALL OF THIS.

Janet says WE WANT TO TAKE THIS BUDGETS
TO THE PEOPLE,

Steve says WHY ROLL IT OUT THIS WAY?

Janet says WELL, IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY
FOR PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE AND THE
PREMIER.
TO ASK QUESTIONS.
TO-- THROUGH THE INTERNET.
THROUGH THE STAKE HOLDERS THAT
WILL BE INVITED TO THIS.
SO IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO-- TO
SHOW, UM, BY THRIFERG IT IN A
DIFFERENT VENUE THAT-- THAT
THERE IS A MORE DIRECT
RELATIONSHIP COMMUNICATION WITH
PEOPLE.
BUT HE HI-- THINK IT'S ALSO
IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT
THIS BUDGETS, LIKE EVERY
BUDGETS, LEGISLATION WILL BE
TAIL IN THE HOUSE, DEBATED IN
THE HOUSE, ALL OF THE
OPPOSITION, THE MEDIA, THE
STAKE HOLDERS, MPP'S WILL HAVE
THE SAME ACCESS TO THE BUDGET.

Steve says DO YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR TO THE
OPPOSITION?

Janet says THEY'LL HAVE THE SAME
OPPORTUNITIES TO VOICE THEIR
VIEW TO THE PUBLIC.
WHICH I THINK IS PART OF
DEMOCRACY, TOO.
SO I APPRECIATE THAT SOME
PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH-- WITH
SITTINGOWN IN A VENUE THAT--
THAT CAN SPEAK MORE DIRECTLY TO
PEOPLE.
I UNDERSTAND PEOPLE DON'T AGREE
WITH THAT.
BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF
CHANGES AS DEMOCRACY HAS
CHANGED OVER THE DECADES.
TELEVISION IN THE LEGISLURE.
GUESTS IN THE GALLERY.
ELECTRONICS OF VARIOUS KIND.
THERE'S BEEN LOTS OF CHANGES.
I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT HERE
IS THAT LEGISLATION WILL
CONTINUE TO BE DEBATED AND--
AND, UM, AND DONE IN THE HOUSE,
AS SHOULD BE.
ACCESS WILL BE THERE.
AND THIS BUDGET WILL ADDRESS
THE PRIORITIES OF OVER 1300
PEOPLE THAT COMMUNICATED WITH
US IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS.

Steve says ONE MORE BEFORE I GET
THE OTHER FOLKS HERE IN.
THE OPPOSITION MEMBERS
OBVIOUSLY WHEN THE BUDGET IS
READ IN THE HOUSE ARE INVITE
TODAY COME AND LISTEN TO IT.
WILL THEY BE INVITED 20 COME
AND LISTEN TO THE BUDGET WHEN
IT IS-- TO COME AND LISTEN TO
THE BUDGET WHEN IT IS READ
WHEREVER IT WILL BE READ?

Janet says OF COURSE.
A LOT OF SAYING THEY DON'T WANT
TO COME.
BUT OF COURSE THEY'LL BE
INVITED.

Steve says RICHARD, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard says WELL, I THINK THAT WAS
TELLING I THINK IN THE
MINISTER'S ANSWER, NOT ONLY DID
SHE TRY AND GO AROUND THE ISSUE
OF WHY, SHE ACTUALLY NEVER, JUST
LIKE THE PREMIER DISCLOSED A
REAL REASON OF WHY TO INTRODUCE
THE BUDGET IN THAT FASHION.
LET ME EXPAND THAT FOR A SEC.
FIRST OF ALL, ALL THE THINGS
SHE SAYS ABOUT BRINGING PEOPLE
IN AND CONSULTING AND HAVING AN
OPPORTUNITY TO DIRECTLY TALK TO
THOSE IN ONTARIO BEFORE AND
DURING AND AFTER THE BUDGET IS
ALL FINE.
THERE'S NOTHING TO PRECLUDE HER
DOING THAT SHE INTRODUCED IN
THE LEGISLATURE AS IT WAS DONE
SINCE THE 1200'S.

Steve says WHY IS IT DONE THIS WAY?

Richard says BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT FELT
IT INCONVENIENT TO RECONVENE THE
THE-- UNTIL THEY DO THE BUDGET.
AND THEY DON'T FEEL ACCOUNTABLE
TO THE LEGISLATURE.
TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER IT'S
CONVENIENT AND FAIR TO THE
OPPOSITION PARTIES.
WITH RESPECT, I DON'T THINK
THAT'S THE ISSUE.
WHAT THE ISSUE IS-- IT'S
DEFINITELY NOT CONVENIENT TO
THE ON PIGS PARTIES-- ON PIGS
PARTIES.
NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
MAKES IT HARDER TO CRITICIZE IT.
BUT WHAT IS UPSETTING IS NOT THAT.
IT IS, IT IS THROWING OUT THE
ONE VEHICLE WE HAVE, WHICH IS
THE LEGISLATURE OF THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO TO HOLD THE
GOVERNMENT TO ACCOUNT.

Steve says RUTH, LET'S GET YOUR
TAKE ON IT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth says LET'S PICK UP OR-- WHERE
RICHARD LEFT OFF.
THE POINT THAT THE GOVERNMENT
AND THE MINISTER IS MISSING IS
THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS
ACCOUNTABLE TO THE LEGISLATURE.
WE THE PEOPLE ELECT PEOPLE TO
THE LEGISLATURE.
AND THE GOVERNMENT IS FORMED
FROM THE MAJORITY GROUP WITHIN
THAT LEGISLATURE.

Steve says SHE SAYS THEY WILL BE.
BUT A MONTH LATER.

Ruth says A MONTH LATER IS ANOTHER ISSUE.
LET'S FINISH THE FIRST THOUGHT
AND THEN COME BACK TO THE MONTH
LATER.
THIS GOVERNMENT HAS SHOWN A
DISDAIN FOR THE LEGISLATURE
THROUGHOUT THE CAREER.
WHETHER IT'S BILLS AND ENTITLES
TO BILLS AM THE LEGISLATURE HAS
NOT FIGURED.
THIS IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF
IT.
BUT THE DELAY, USUALLY IN
BUDGETS, SECURITY IS EXTREMELY
TIGHT.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS--
HAS BEEN THAT TAX MESHES WHEN
ANNOUNCED BY A FINANCE MINISTER
TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.
REASON FOR KEEPING IT SO SECURE
HAS BEEN SO THAT NOBODY CAN
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF INFORMATION
ABOUT A COMING TAX CHANGE.
WE'RE NOW GOING TO HAVE
ANNOUNCES OF TAX CHANGES AND A
MONTHS BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE--
BEFORE THE LEGISLATION TO, IN
FACT, IMPLEMENT THEM.
THERE'S ALWAYS DELAY.
BUT WON'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL
THAT-- AND IT'S AN INVITATION
OF THE MANIPULATION OF THE
SYSTEM BY THOSE THAT CAN
BENEFIT.

Guy says THE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT
HAD TO PASS ONE OF THE NDP
BUDGET BILLS THAT YOU DIDN'T
PASS WHEN YOU GOT INTO
GOVERNMENT.
SO THAT'S NOTHING NEW.

Ruth says BUT THE CHANGES TAKE EFFECT
FROM THE TIME THE BUDGET IS TABLED.

The caption changes to "Guy Giorno. Ontario PC Advisor."
Guy is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short black hair.

He says EVERYTHING IN THIS, HAS TO
GO INTO THE LEGISLATURE AND GET
FIRST AND SECOND AND THIRD
READING AND BECOME LAW, JUST--

Janet says BUT IT WILL BE, FIRST OF ALL,
I'M GLAD YOU KNOW WHAT TAX
CHANGES ARE IN THE BUDGET.
UM, BUT-- BUT I I-- THINK
WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT THIS
DOCUMENT WILL BE PLACED BEFORE
THE CLERKS, BEFORE THE HOUSE
IT, WILL BE FILED.
THERE WILL BE A BUDGET
MOTION IN THE LEGISLATURE.
AS THERE ALWAYS IS.
WELL, QUEBEC, FOR EXAMPLE,
QUEBEC, FOR EXAMPLE, PUT THEIR
BUDGET OUT IN THE HOUSE, I
AGREE, AND THEY'RE OFF ON AN
ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
SO WHEN DO THEIR TAX CHANGES
TAKE EFFECT?
SO HAVING A BUDGETS THAT IS
INTRODUCED, UM, HAVING
LEGISLATION THAT FOLLOWS LATER
IS NOT AN UNCOMMON OCCURRENCE
IN PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY.
CERTAINLY NOT IN CANADA.

Ruth says YOU'RE SAYING YOU COULD
ANNOUNCE THE TAX CHANGE IN THE
BUDGET AND WOULDN'T TAKE EFFECT
UNTIL YOU INTRODUCED
LEGISLATION.
AS OPPOSED TO NORMALLY, TWHAIS
IF INCOME TAX IS GOING UP OR IF
TOBACCO TAXES ARE GOING UP IT,
TAKES EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

Janet says NO, IF-- BY CONVENTION, TAX
THAT IS-- YOU KNOW, WHEN A
GOVERNMENT STANDS UP AND SAYS
THIS TAX INCREASE WILL TAKE
EFFECT MIDNIGHT TONIGHT, WE
DON'T HAVE EXPERIENCE DOING
THAT, I KNOW YOUR TWO
GOVERNMENTS DID.

Steve says A SHOT THERE.

Janet says BUT WHEN, UM, WHEN-- YES,
BECAUSE HEALTH GROUPS AND YOU
WERE PART OF THE GROUPS THAT
SAID WE SHOULD DO THAT.

Ruth says IT'S PROCESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Janet says BUT THE CONVENTION IS THAT--
THAT KIND OF TAX CHANGE IS
CONSIDERED TO COME INTO EFFECT
WHEN IT'S ANNOUNCED.
BUT IF THE LEGISLATION DOESN'T
PASS, IT'S NOT LEGAL.
SO THAT-- THAT IS NOT CHANGING
AT ALL, RUTH.

Steve says I WANT TO GET YOUR
GUY IN HERE.
YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT OF THE
ETOBICOKE LAKE SHORE RIDING
ASSOCIATION, RIGHT.

Richard says THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says YOUR PUBLIC COULD GET THERE'S
SOME HICKORY TRICKERY INVOLVED
HERE WITH THE WAY THIS IS
BROUGHT IN.
MICHAEL BLISS, A LIFE-LONG
CONSERVATIVE, ONLY EVER VOTED PC.

Richard says SAT IN GUY'S SEAT AS A TORY
PANELIST ON THIS SHOW BEFORE.

Steve says HE DID, INDEED.
HE SAID IN A COLUMN EARLIER
THIS WEEK THAT THE PC'S ARE A
GAGGL HE HAVE OF UNPRINCIPLED
BU M BLERS.
THE TAXPAYERS' ASSOCIATION
CALLED THIS AN AFFRONT TO A
DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY.
THIS IS WHAT IS YOUR SUPPORTERS
THINK.
YOU'RE IN TROUBLE.

Guy says THE STATEMENT WAS TAKEN OUT
OF THE CONTEXT.
HE'S SUPPORTIVE OF THE PROCESS.
THE CRITICISM, YOU WILL GET
THAT ANY TIME GOVERNMENTS TRY
TO BRING DEMOCRACY CLOSER TO
THE PEOPLE.
YOU HAD THE SAME ARGUMENTS
MADE, UM, WHEN-- WHEN CAMERAS
WERE BROUGHT INTO PARLIAMENT
AND LEGISLATURE.
YOU HAD THE SAME ARGUMENTS MADE
WHEN COMMITTEES STARTING TODAY
TRAVEL AND SAME ARGUMENTS MADE
ABOUT REFERENDUMS.
ANYTHING THAT'S DESIGNED TO
TAKE DEMOCRACY CLOSER TO THE
PEOPLE, WE'VE HEARD IT'S THE
END OF PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY.
THERE SHOULD BE NO APOLOGY IN
BRINGING A MOVE THAT BRINGS A
BUDGET, A FUNDAMENTAL PEOPLE
POLICY, CLOSER TO THE PEOPLE.

Steve says BUT THE CRITIC ARE
SAYING IT, BUT YOUR FRIEND ARE
SAYING IT, TOO.
DOESN'T AT THAT GIVE YOU PAUSE?

Guy says THE REALITY IS THAT-- THAT
ANY TIME YOU MAKE A CHANGE OF
THIS NATURE, THAT YOU INNOVATE,
YOU WILL HAVE SOME, AND--

Ruth says COME ON.
YOU CALL THIS INNOVATION.
CHANGES THAT YOUR OWN
SUPPORTERS HAVE ALL SAID RAH,
RAH TO OVER THE DECADES AND
THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE'RE
SEEING VERY SERIOUS THINKERS
ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, WHETHER
IT BE MICHAEL BLISS OR ROBERT
MAR L OW, A PREVIOUS CLERK OF
THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, ALL SAY
THE ISSUE IS THAT-- IS THAT FOR
DECADES, FOR CENTURIES, THE
RIGHT OF THE LEGISLATURES TO
QUESTION THE SPENDING AND
RAISING OF MONEY BY FOR THE HAS
BEEN A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE
DEMOCRACY.

Janet says IT WILL BE.
SEE, PART OF THE CHALLENGE HERE
IS THAT SOME OF THE MEDIA
COVERAGE WOULD LEAVE PEOPLE TO
BELIEVE THAT THOSE PROCESSES
ARE NOT BEING RESPECTED.
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE.
ESTIMATES WILL BE AVAILABLE
WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE
AVAILABLE.
TO-- TO, UM, TO-- FOR THE
OPPOSITION, FOR PEOPLE TO LOOK
AT.
UM, BUDGETS DOCUMENTS WILL BE
AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO LOCK
THE.
SO THAT IS-- THAT WILL BE
THERE.

Steve says IF THIS IS TO BIG
DEAL, THEN C IS EVERYBODY
GETTING SO-- WHY IS EVERYBODY'S
SHORTS IN A KNOT ABOUT THIS IF
IT'S NO BIG TEAL.

Janet says I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S
CONTROVERSIAL BECAUSE IT'S A CHANGE.
THE PREMIER ROYCE-- RECOGNIZES
THAT IT'S A CHANGE.
AND HE ALSO RECOGNIZES THAT IF
YOU'RE TRYING TO, AS GUY SAID,
DEMONSTRATE TO THE PEOPLE THAT
YOU DO TAKE THE DEMOCRATIC
PROCESS REACHING OUT TO THEM,
COMMUNICATING WITH THEM, USING
THE 21ST CENTURY COMMUNICATION
TOOLS, LIKE THE INTERNET, I
MEAN, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT, THEN
YOU HAVE TO-- TO MAKE A
DECISION THAT RESPECTS THAT.
AND WE ARE INDEED DOING THAT.

Richard says NO ONE ON THIS TABLE, NO ONE
IN THIS PROVINCE IS ARGUING
AGAINST YOU USING THE INTERNET.
OR TALKING TO PEOPLE.
OR CONSULTING WITH PEOPLE.
ABOUT YOUR BUDGET.
OR SELLING IT THAT WAY.
WHAT PEOPLE ARE ARGUING AGAINST
IS THE COMPLETE LACK OF
ACCOUNTABILITY.
SINCE THE 1200TH PAR LIMIT, THE
CROWN HAS HAD TO SEEK THE
AUTHORITY OF PARLIAMENT TO
SPEND MONEY.
THAT IS CALLED TAXATION WITH
REPRESENTATION.

Janet says WE'RE STILL GOING TO DO
THAT, RICHARD.
WE'RE STILL GOING TO DO THAT.

Richard says IT WAS A NICE ATTEMPTS BY
GUY TO TRY AND SAY THIS IS SOME
NEW DEMOCRATIC REFORM.
THIS IS ABOUT TAKING GOVERNMENT
AWAY FROM PEOPLE, NOT BRINGING
IT TO PEOPLE.

Steve says I THOUGHT
CONSERVATIVES, MORE THAN OTHER
PARTIES REPRESENTED TRADITION
AND DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS.
WE'RE HEARING THE OPPOSITE.

Janet says A BUDGET THAT WILL CREATE
JOBS AND A BUDGETS AT THAT WILL
HAVE NEW INVESTS IN HEALTH AND
EDUCATIONS AND A BUDGET THAT
WILL BE ABLE TO SAY TO PEOPLE
AT THAT WE HEARD I AND HEAR'S
HOW WE'RE TRYING TO RESPOND TO YOU.
AND THAT IS ONLY IMPLEMENTED
THROUGH LEGISLATION IN THE
HOUSE.
SO I THINK FOR YOU TO CAST THIS
AS SOME WAY OF GOING BACK ON
THE, ON ANCIENT RIGHT OF
PARLIAMENT TO APPROVE
EXPENDITURES IS FALSE, RICHARD.

Richard says THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

Janet says NO, SIR NO, IT'S NOT.

Richard says BELIEVE THE MAN WHO WROTE
THE PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE IN
CANADA, THE FORMER CLERK OF THE
HOUSE IN OTTAWA.
BELIEVE YOUR OWN, OWN SPEAKER,
APPOINTED BY YOUR GOVERNMENT--

Janet says WHY WAS IT THAT IN OTHER
PARLIAMENTS IF OTHER
PARLIAMENTS WHEN A FINANCE
MINISTER HAS STOOD UP TO TABLE
A BUDGET, THE OPPOSITION HAS
PHILISM BUSTERED AND MADE-- AND
PETER COR M OS DID IT.
YOU DID IT YOURSELF--

Richard says YOU CAN'T TAKE SPRUPLGSS.
IS THAT WHEN THIS IS ABOUT?

Janet says NO, WHEN YOU DO THAT SPEECH
IN THE HOUSE, IT'S A TRADITION.
IT IS A PRACTICE.
THE LAW SAYS A MOTION MUST BE
TABLED AND BILLS HAVE TO BE
DEBATED.
LAW IS BEING RESERVED, IS BEING
RESPECTED HERE.
AS IT SHOULD BE.

Steve says MR. SPEAKER, LET'S
HEAR FROM MR. SPEAKER.
I WANT TO PLAY SOME TAPE HERE.
BECAUSE I THINK CERTAINLY THE
CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD WHEN THE
PEOPLE BEHIND THE SCENES IN THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY SUGGESTED
THAT THERE WAS AN ANTICIPATION
THAT THERE MIGHT BE A WEEK OR
SO OF NEGATIVE PUBLICITY
SURROUNDING THIS AND THEN LIFE
WOULD GO ON.
I DON'T THINK ANYONE EXPECTED
TO HEAR THIS FROM THE MPP FROM
OAKVILLE, WHO IS THE SPEAKER
OF THE LEGISLATURE.
ROLL TAPE.

A cli plays of Gary Carr’s interview with Steve Paikin.

Gary says YOU HAVE TO JUDGE A PREMIER
BY WHAT YOU DO AND IF HE WILL
LISTEN TO THE JAMIE WATTS.
WORLD ON SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT
AS THIS, PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK
HIS JUDGMENT.
IS HE FIT TO BE PREMIER?

The clip ends.

Steve says THAT'S AN
EXTRAORDINARY THING FOR THE
SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATURE TO
BE SAYING.
MANY YOU HEARD-- WHEN YOU HEARD
HIM SAY THAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Janet says I DON'T FREEWAY WITH GARY
CARR WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
HE HAS HIS VIEWS.
HE'S NO LONGER SEEKING A SEAT
IN HIS RIDING ANYMORE AND FOR
WHATEVER REASONS, HE MADE THAT
DECISION SOME MONTHS AGO.
UM, BUT-- BUT I DON'T AGREE.
UM, THINK THIS IS A PREMIER WHO
WHEN HE SAID TO PEOPLE WHEN HE
WAS SEEKING THE LEADERSHIP, UM,
WHEN HE SAID HE WANTS TODAY
REACH OUT, HE WANTED TO BE MORE
CONSULTATIVE.
AND YOU IN THE MEDIA WERE
TELLING MIKE HARRIS AND THE
MIKE HARRIS GOVERNMENT WE
NEEDED TO DO THAT.
TO TAKE A BREATH FROM SOME OF
THE DRAMATIC CHANGES THAT IS WE
MADE.
CONSULT MORE.
LISTEN MORE.
MOVE FORWARD AT A MORE
DELIBERATIVE PACE.
THIS PREMIER SAID HE WOULD DO
THAT.
HE BELIEVES THIS IS A STEP THAT
WILL HELP HIM DO THAT.

Steve says HOW DAMAGING DO YOU
THINK GARY CARR'S COMMENCE
HAVE BEEN ON ALL OF THIS?

Guy says I THINK THAT WHEN THE BUDGET
COMES OUT ON THURSDAY, MARCH
27TH, PEOPLE WILL FOCUS ON
SUBSZ AND THE CONTENT AND THE
POSITIVE REFORMS AND
IMPROVEMENT THAT IS ARE BEING
MADE.
AND THE ISSUE OF PROCESS WILL
BE FORGOTTEN.

Steve says THAT'S ON OPEN
QUESTION, SINCE IT?
MAYBE THE PROCESS WILL BE THE
STORY.

Guy says WELL, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT,
THAT WHEN THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO
HAVE A CHANCES TO HAVE A
BUDGETS PRESENTED TO THEM AND--
AND TO SEE IT AND UNDERSTAND
IT, BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE FIRST
TIME GOING TO BE TREATED AS A
DOCUMENT FOR PEOPLE.
NOT A DOCUMENT FOR POLITICIANS
AND THAT WILL BE THE STORY.

Richard says THAT'S-- THAT'S-- I CAN'T--
THAT-- THAT'S A HYPER SPIN
THAT--

Steve says IS THAT MORE THAN
REGULAR SPIN.

Richard says THAT'S MORE THAN REGULAR SPIN.
GUY MAY BE RIGHT.
WE MAY BE POST BUDGETS MAYBE
THE FOCUS WILL TURN ON THE
SUBSTANCE OF IT.
I DON'T KNOW.
I WOULD SAY THAT NOW THERE'S
QUITE A STORM OVER THE CHANGE.
TWO THINGS ON MOTIVE ON THIS.
UM, FEERT THE PREMIER OR MISS
ECKER EXPLAINED WHY THIS, WHY
NOW.
ONE, UM, MAYBE WE'LL NEVER--

Steve says IN FAIRNESS, SHE HAS.
YOU JUST DON'T LIKE THE EXPLANATION.

Richard says MAYBE THE LEGISLATURE WON'T
EVER COME BACK POST APRIL 30TH.
SHE INDICATES AT THAT IT WILL.

Janet says WE HAVE ANNOUNCED A DATE FOR
THRONE SPEECH.
I CAN INVITE YOU.

Ruth says YOU HAVE ANNOUNCED THIS BEFORE.
THIS IS AN ELECTION--

Steve says GO AHEAD.

Richard says AND THE SECOND THING IS THAT
PROBABLY WHAT THIS-- IF I CAN
PREDICT WHAT WILL BE IN THE
BUDGETS, AND I KNOW THAT'S YOUR
JOB, MINISTER, BUT IS THAT IT
WILL HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF NEW
SPENDING PROMISES AND A WHOLE
BUNCH OF TAX CUT PROMISES.
REMEMBERING THAT THESE PEOPLE
ALREADY BROKE THEIR OWN TAX
PAYER PROTECTION ACT TO DELAY A
TAX CUT X IF YOU HAVE THE
OPPOSITION IN FOUR WEEKS AT THE
LEGISLATURE GOING BETWEEN
THE DISCONNECT BETWEEN HERE'S A
WHOLE BUMP OF SPENDING AND TAX
CUTS AND THE BALANCED BUDGET
AND YOU COULD POKE A HOLE IN
THAT--

Steve says LET ME PUT THIS TO
YOU THEN, RUTH.
IF THIS IS THE WAY THAT IT WILL
HAPPEN AND I DON'T SEE ANY
EVIDENCE RIGHT NOW THAT THE
GOVERNMENT IS ABOUT TO CHANGE
ITS MIND ON THIS.
MISS E C KER?
NO.

Ruth says THE GLOBE AND MAIL, A
SIGNIFICANT CONSERVATIVE ORGAN.
IS NOW SORT OF-- PUTTING OUT A
DAILY--

Steve says NOT TOO MUCH THIS DAY.

Ruth says DAY NINE.
AND THERE'S CERTAINLY BEEN SOME
SUGGESTION THAT IS PERHAPS
WHAT'S HAPPENING, UM, WORLDWIDE
MIGHT NEED, UM, A READJUSTING
OF SOME OF THE FIGURES IN THE
BUDGET.

Janet says THAT'S WHY YOU NEED A BUDGET
THERE, RUTH.
20 SET OUT BUDGETARY POLITICS.

Ruth says AND I THAT I-- TO SET OUT BUDGET
BUDGETARY POLITICS.
AND I THINK THIS IS ALL ABOUT
PREPARATION FOR AN ELECTION.
AND A-- AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE
WHAT THEY THOUGHT WOULD BE A
POSITIVE MEDIA EVENT AND A ROLL
OUT OF ADVERTISEMENTS TELLING
US ALL WHAT WAS IN THE BUDGET
AND THEN WE'LL GO TO THE PEOPLE.

Steve says THE NEXT QUESTION
BECOMES, IF THIS IS, IN FACT,
THE WAY IT WILL HAPPEN, THE
OPPOSITION DOESN'T GET FIVE
DAYS IN THE HOUSE AND GET
QUESTION PERIOD, HOW DO THEY
HAVE TO THINK OF THEIR RESPONSE
TO IT.
THEY HAVE A NEW WAY OF ROLLING
OUT THE BUDGE.
WHAT WILL THE CRITICISM BE.

Ruth says THEY'LL SAY IT'S NOT A
BUDGETS UNTIL IT'S IN THE
LEGISLATURE AND THE LEGISLATION
HAS PASSED.
SO I THINK THE OPPOSITION WILL
TREAT IT AS THE PEOPLE OF THE
PROVINCE WILL L AS, UM, THE
FIRST STEP IN AN ELECTION
CAMPAIGN.
WITH A LOT OF PROMISES.
WHICH THERE IS NO COMMITMENT
WHEN THE GOVERNMENT COMES BACK,
SHOULD THIS GOVERNMENT
SURPRISINGLY BE RE-ELECTED.
THAT ANY OF THEM WILL BE
IMPLEMENTED.

Janet says LET'S BE VERY CLEAR HERE.
THAT-- THAT THIS IS THE ONLY
PARTY, THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY
AND MIKE HARRIS AND ERNIE EVES
GOVERNMENT IS THE ONLY
GOVERNMENT THAT TABLE
LEGISLATION AND DELIVERED ON
TAX CUTS.
YOUR TWO PARTIES, BOTH OF YOU
HAVE-- BOTH OF YOUR PARTIES
HAVE VOTED AGAINST TAX CUTS.
AND-- AND WE'VE DELIVERED ON, ON
CHANGE IN EDUCATION.
CHANGE IN THE HEALTH CARE
SYSTEM.
WE'VE DELIVERED ON A WHOLE
RANGE OF COMMITMENT THAT IS
WE'VE MADE TO PEOPLE.
WE'LL DO THE SAME IN THIS
BUDGETS.
THIS BUDGET, AND, FIRST OF ALL,
IT'S A STATEMENT OF THE BUDGETS
BUDGETARY POLICY OF THE GOVERNMENT.
IT WILL CLEARLY INDICATE THAT
THE PRIORITIES THAT WE ARE
PUTTING OUT ARE THE SAME
PRIORITIES THAT-- THAT ONTARIO
FAMILIES AND-- AND, UM, AND HAVE
TOLD US THEY WANT.
AND, UM, AND THAT IS CONTINUING
TO-- TO MAKE, SET HIGHER
STANDARDS AND PUT RESOURCE FOOS
EDUCATION.
IT'S CONTINUING TO-- TO, UM TO,
TAKE A HEALTH CARE-- RESOURCES
INTO EDUCATION.
IT'S CONTINUING TO, UM, TO MAKE
A CHANGE TO THE HEALTH CARE
SYSTEM.
AND MAKE CHANGES THERE.

Ruth says IT'S NOT THE SAME--

Janet says ARE YOU SAYING PEOPLE DON'T
WANT MORE IMPROVEMENT INSIDE
HEALTH AND MORE IMPROVEMENT IN
EDUCATION AND MORE JOBS.
THAT'S WHAT THOSE PEOPLE IN
ONTARIO WANT.

Ruth says AND YOU SAID YOU CAN HAVE
TAX CUTS AND GOOD HEALTH CARE.

Janet says AND THEY HAVE AND THEY HAVE.

Ruth says AND GOOD EDUCATION.

Janet says THEY HAVE.

Ruth says NO, THEY HAVEN'T.

Steve says VIEWERS WILL BE
EXPECTING ME TO ASK YOU THIS QUESTION.
IN 1995, A VERY UNPOPULAR NDP
GOVERNMENT DECLINE TO CALL THE
HOUSE BACK AND BROUGHT IN AN
ECONOMIC STATEMENT AROUND THIS
TIME OF YEAR NO.
OPPORTUNITY TO DEBATE IT IN THE
HOUSE OR ASK QUESTIONS DURING
QUESTION PERIOD.
SO THEY WOULD SAY SINCE IT
PRECIOUS FOR YOU TO CRITICIZE
WHAT THE CONSERVATIVES ARE
GOING ON WHEN THERE'S A PIT OF
DEJA VU GOING ON.

Ruth says I WOULD NOT SAY THAT THE
ECONOMIC STATEMENT WAS THE SAME.
OR THE BUDGET.
A BUDGET IS A FORWARD LOOKING
DOCUMENT.
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.
THAT WAS AN ECONOMIC STATEMENT
THAT-- THAT SAID TO THE
PROVINCE, HERE'S WHERE THINGS
ARE AT.
THE PROVINCE WAS BEGINNING TO
TURN AROUND ECONOMICALLY.
IT WAS A-- A STATEMENT OF THE
ACCOUNTS OF THE PROVINCE.
PRIOR TO GOING TO AN ELECTION
AND ASKING FOR SUPPORT.
IT WAS NOT PRO TRADE AS A
BUDGE.
NOR DID IT HAVE ANY OF THE
CHARACTERISTICS OF A BUDGET.

Steve says SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY
IF IT WALK LIKE A DUCK AND
TALKS LIKE A DUCK.

Ruth says IT DIDN'T HAVE TAX CHANGES.

Janet says THAT'S ONE OF THE FEW TIMES
YOU DIDN'T INCREASE TAXES ON PEOPLE.

Steve says YOU DIDN'T WANT TO
PRY IN A BUDGETS AT THAT YEAR
BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WANT TO CALL
THE HOUSE BACK BECAUSE YOU
DIDN'T WANT TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE
CRITICIZING THE BUDGET BEFORE
AN ELECTION.
IT SEEMS THAT IT'S THE SAME
THING OVER AGAIN.

Ruth says I TAKE YOUR POINT.
WE'LL DISAGREE ON THAT.

Janet says THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT--
LISTEN, THERE HAVE BEEN WHOLE
YEARS GO BY WHERE THE FEDERAL
LIBERALS DIDN'T EVEN BRING IN A
BUJS .
YEAR, ARE WE NOT ONLY--

Richard says ONE YEAR.

[Mixed voices]

Janet says COME ON.
NOT ONLY ARE WE BRINGING IN A
BUDGE, WE'RE DOING IT BEFORE
THE EN OF THE FISCAL WE'RE.
WHICH IS-- BUDGETS, WE'RE DOING
IT BEFORE THE EN OF THE FISCAL
CAREER.
AND--

[Mixed voices]

Steve says YOU CAN NEVER
CRITICIZE THE FEDERAL LIBERALS,
OR RICHARD GOES--

Richard says I CRITICIZE THEM.
BUT THANK YOU-- IT'S HOW THE
OPPOSITION PARTIES WILL RESPOND.
IT'S ABOUT A ONE-MONTH INFOMER
CISM AL PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS.
AND IT'S A PREMIER THAT WILL DO
ANYTHING TO GET ELECTED.
AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT 6 CHANGE
IN EDUCATION.
I SUSPECT BOTH DURING THE
BUDGET AND THE CAMPAIGN, WE'LL
HAVE A FAIR BIT ABOUT THE TALK
AND WHETHER EDUCATION IS
FURTHER AHEAD THAN IT IS NOW.

Janet says WE DO BETTER ON-- BETTER ON
INTERNATIONAL AND NATIONAL TESTS.

Steve says WE'RE TALKING BUDGETS HERE.
GARY CARR SAID EARLIER ON THIS
WEEK IN THE PROGRAM WAS THAT HE
WAS REALLY MAD AND HE NAMED
THEM.
JAMIE WATT AND PAULA RHODES.
BACK ROOM PEOPLE WHO HE
BELIEVES HAS TAKEN OFFER THE
PREMIER'S MINUTE.
I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER THESE
BACK ROOM PEOPLE, OF WHOM YOU
USED TO BE ONE, ARE EXERCISING
TOO MUCH POWER?

Guy says ABSOLUTELY NOT.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION
SINCE WHO IS RUNNING THE
GOVERNMENT.
I MEAN, THERE'S NO QUESTION
THAT ERNIE EVES IS RU7BG THE
GOVERNMENT.

Steve says GARY CARR SAYS IT'S AN
OPEN QUESTION.

Guy says DOES THE BUDGET BELONG TO
THE POLITICIAN SFS DOES IT
WRONG TO THE PEOPLE?
IT'S THE PEOPLE'S DO YOU MEAN.
IS-- THE POLITICIANS ? DOES
IT BELONG TO THE PEOPLE?
IT'S THE PEOPLE'S DOCUMENT.

Ruth says BUT IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT
ELECT THOSE IN THE LEGISLATURE.

Steve says ACADEMICS AND
OPPOSITION POLITICIANS
AND NEWSPAPERS HAVE BEEN THE
PEOPLE THAT ARE NEGATIVE ABOUT
THE WAY YOU WILL ROLL OUT THE
BUDGET.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE AVERAGE
PERSON IN ONTARIO THINKS ABOUT
WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO?

Janet says I HAD BOTH PEOPLE WHO
THOUGHT IT WAS A -- IN THE
QUOTE OF ONE MAN I MEANT DOOR
KNOCKING AND HE SAID IT WAS A
GREAT, NEAT IDEA.
I HAVE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T
AGREE WITH IT AND THINK IT'S A
BAD IDEA.
I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY
WHAT WILL BE IMPORTANT TO-- TO
VOTERS, AS IT ALWAYS IS,
THEY'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT OUR
LEADERS' RECORDS ARE, THEY'LL
TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THE
COMMITMENT THAT IS WE'VE
DELIVERED ON, AND WHAT THE
COMMITMENTS ARE-- WE ARE MAKING
TO THE PUBLIC AND THEY'LL MAKE
THEIR JUDGMENT.
AND I RESPECT THAT AT THE EN OF
THE DAY.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT
HERE.
THEY'RE GOING TO JUDGE THAT
BUDGETS BY HOW IT HELPS THEM IN
THEIR LIVES.
AND THEY'LL MAKE A JUDGMENT.

Richard says AND IF I COULD MAKE A
PREDICTION, WHAT YOU'LL SEE IN
THIS BUJS IS WHAT YOU SAW FROM
EVES SINCE HE TOOK OVER.
HE WILL DO ANYTHING AND SAY
ANYTHING TO GET ELECTED.
HE'LL CHANGE HIS POLICIES ON
HYDRO AND ON TAXES AND--

Steve says TWICE YOU MENTIONED
THAT AND I'M GIG TO-- BEGINNING
TO THINK--

Richard says SECONDLY, YOU'LL SEE A WHOLE
WHACK OF GOOD NEWS, PROMISING
ALL SORTS OF GOODIES FOR ALL OF
US, BALANCED BUDGETS AND TAX
CUTS AND FREE EVERYTHING.

Janet says THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE AN
ELECTION GOOD DISBUDGETS.
NO, IT'S NOT.

Richard says PLANSED BUDGETS, HUH?
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT, YOU SHOULD
HAVE BELIEVED HIS PROMISE ON
HYDRO PRIVATIZATION.

Steve says TORY MPP'S INSISTED
THEY'RE GETTING NO PHONE CALLS,
NO NEGATIVE PHONE CALLS ABOUT
THIS.
FOR WHAT'S THAT WORTH.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S WORTH.

Ruth says WE'LL SEE.
WE'LL SEE.
AND THE PETITION ON THE NDP
WEBSITE IS CERTAINLY GATHERING
SOME NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T
THINK IT'S RIGHT.

Richard says WHEN THIS WAS FIRST
ANNOUNCED, A LOT OF US LOOKED
AT IT AND SAID, THINK IT'S
WRONG.
I THINK IT'S D. IT'S
UNDEMOCRATIC AND AGAINST THE,
UM, THE PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY
AND CONSISTENT WITH THIS
GOVERNMENT.
PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT IT.
WE'RE ALL A BIT SURPRISED THAT
IT HAS AS MUCH LEGS AS IT'S HAD.

Steve says WITH OVER A MINUTE TO
GO, I WANT TO ASK THE MINISTER
JUST A FEW MORE QUESTIONS.
WHERE WILL THE BUDGET BE
DELIVERED?

Janet says WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE IN
THE GTA AREA.
WE HAVE A LOCATION.
WHEN--

Steve says CAN YOU TELL US WHERE IT IS?

Janet says WHEN ALL THE DETAILS ARE FINALIZED.
BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO SAY
THERE'S THIS DETAIL AND THAT
DETAIL.
WHEN ALL THE DETAILS ARE
FINALIZED, IT WILL BE
ANNOUNCED.
WE FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO
GETS OUT WITH THE DATE.
AS I SAID TO THE MEDIA AND THE
OPPOSITION AND STAKE HOLDERS,
WE'LL HAVE LOCK UPS AND ALL OF
THOSE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES THAT
THEY GETS THAT THE VOTERS DON'T
HAVE.
THOSE WILL STILL NUMBER PLACE
FOR THEM.
THEY SHOULDN'T BE CONCERNED
ABOUT THAT.

Steve says IS IT A TV STUDIO OR
A HOCKEY ARENA?

Janet says NO, IT'S NOT A TV STUDIO.
THIS IS LIKE A TOWN HALL.
UM, CONCEPT IF YOU WILL.
AGAIN, WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS
INVITE THE-- SOME OF THE 1300
PEOPLE WHO WERE PART OF THE
PRE-BUDGETS CONSULTATIONS.
SO THEY CAN HEAR.
SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO-- TO COMMENT.

Ruth says IF YOU'RE NOT INVITED, CAN
YOU NOT GO?

Janet says UNINVITED PEOPLE CAN'T COME
TO THE LEGISLATURE WHEN YOU
GIVE A BUDGET?
IT'S ONLY BY INVITATION.

Ruth says PEOPLE GO TO THE LEGISLATURE
ON BUDGET DAY.

Janet says THEY'RE ONLY BY BUDGET DAY.
YOU GET TO INVITE SOME.
AND ALSO--

Ruth says WILL THE OPPOSITION BE THERE?

Janet says I DON'T KNOW THE FINAL COUNSEL.
BUT MANY, MANY PEOPLE WILL BE THERE.
BY INVITATION.
INCLUDING MPP'S.
JUST LIKE LEGISLATURE.
EXCEPT--

Ruth says OPPOSITION MEMBERS CAN--

[Mixed voices]

Janet says EXCEPT, UM, THERE WILL BE,
UM, AND--

[Mixed voices]

Janet says EXCUSE ME.

Richard says WHO PAYS FOR THE COST OF PUTTING THIS ON?

Steve says TAXPAYERS OR PC PARTY?

Janet says WELL, THE PRODUCTION OF A
BUDGET IS PAID FOR BY THE
MINISTRY OF FINANCE AS IT
ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
AND WILL BE IN THIS CASE AS
WELL.
IF YOU WANT TO HAVE PARTISAN
ADVERTISING LIKE DALTON'S
HIDING BEHIND THE TREE ADS,
THOSE ARE PAID FOR BY THE PARTY
AND OUR ADS ARE PRAYED FOR BY
THE PARTY.
ONE THAT IS ARE POLITICAL.

Ruth says AND IT'S--

Janet says OF COURSE NOT.
IT'S A BUDGET.
AND CONTINUE TREATED AS SUCH.
IT WILL SET OUT THE BUDGETARY
POLICY OF THIS GOVERNMENT FOR MORE JOBS.

Steve says THAT'S THE LAST WORD.
JANET E C KER, MINISTER OF
FINANCE, THANK YOU FOR COMING
IN THIS WEEK.

Janet says THANK YOU.

Steve says THAT'S “4TH READING.”
THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2003, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Ontario's Budget