Transcript: NDP Platform | Mar 09, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

A clip shows a gavel banging against a desk, and MPPs voting in the Legislature.

Steve says THIS WEEK
ON 4TH READING,
POWER TO THE PEOPLE.
HOWARD HAMPTON DELIVERS
HIS VISION FOR
ONTARIO'S FUTURE.

The title of the show "4th Reading" flies across the screen.

Steve, Ruth, Richard and another panelist sit around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a beige blazer and a plaid yellow shirt.

Steve says GOOD AFTERNOON,
EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN AND THIS IS
4TH READING FOR THIS WEEK.
ONLY ONCE IN 136 YEARS HAS
THE NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY
WON AN ONTARIO GENERAL
ELECTION, AND ONLY ONCE
IN THE PAST 10
YEARS HAS THE NDP
GONE OVER 20 PERCENT
IN THE POLLS.
DESPITE THAT BLEAK
HISTORY, NEW DEMOCRATS
ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING AND
SOUNDING MORE ENCOURAGED
THAN THEY'VE BEEN
IN SOME TIME.
THE PARTY HAS JUST RELEASED
ITS ELECTION PLATFORM
AND IN A MOMENT, WE'LL
GIVE IT THE ONCE OVER
WITH NDP LEADER
HOWARD HAMPTON.
FIRST, SOME BACKGROUND.

In a clip, Howard Hampton stands behind the podium and addresses the crowd. He's in his fifties, clean-shaven with short brown hair. The caption changes to "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader."

He says WE ARE HERE TODAY TO
DEFINE FOR PEOPLE
WHAT THIS ELECTION
REALLY IS ALL ABOUT.

Steve narrates ONTARIO NDP LEADER
HOWARD HAMPTON SAYS
HIS PARTY IS RARING TO GO
FOR A SPRING ELECTION CALL.

A political advertisement plays. In the ad, a red and a blue ball spin around against a white background. The words "spin or substance" appears over top.

Steve continues NDP POLITICAL ADS
HIT THE AIRWAYS THIS WEEK
RE-INTRODUCING
HAMPTON TO VOTERS.
HE ALSO UNVEILED HIS PARTY'S
77-PAGE ELECTION PLATFORM
OUTLINING HIS PLANS
FOR THE PROVINCE.
THEY INCLUDE, KEEPING
HYDRO IN PUBLIC HANDS
BY ENDING PRIVATIZATION
AND DEREGULATION.
RAISING ONTARIO'S MINIMUM
WAGE TO 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR.
FREEZING RENTS FOR
THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
GIVING PARENTS
10-DOLLARS-A-DAY CHILDCARE.
AND ADVOCATING AN INCOME
TAX HIKE FOR THOSE EARNING
MORE THAN
100,000 DOLLARS A YEAR.

Greg Inwood's a clean-shaven man in his mid-forties with straight brown hair. The caption changes to "Greg Inwood. Ryerson University."

He says I THINK THE NDP IN
ONTARIO HAS GOTTEN PAST,
IN A SENSE, THE LEGACY OF
THE RAE YEARS AND WAS READY
TO TRY TO BRING BACK MANY
OF THE INTERESTS AND
THE PEOPLE WHO TRADITIONALLY
SUPPORTED THE PARTY,
AND SO THEY'RE HARKENING
BACK TO THE KINDS OF
POLICIES, STRATEGIES,
SLOGANS AND SO ON AND SO
FORTH THAT WILL BRING
THOSE PEOPLE BACK.

Steve continues HOWEVER, CRITICS SAY
THAT THE NDP'S PLATFORM,
ESPECIALLY THE TAX
HIKES, IS BAD POLICY.

John Williamson's in his forties and clean-shaven with dark brown hair. The caption changes to "John Williamson. Canadian Taxpayers Association."

He says WELL, I THINK THE
NDP'S KIDDING
THEMSELVES AND ONTARIANS
IF THEY THINK A TAX CUT
IS GOING TO RESULT
IN MORE REVENUE.
ALREADY PEOPLE THAT MORE
THAN 100,000 DOLLARS A YEAR,
THEY MAKE UP APPROXIMATELY
3.6 PERCENT OF FILERS,
YET THEY ACCOUNT FOR 45 PERCENT
OF PERSONAL INCOME TAX REVENUES
THAT CURRENTLY GO INTO
PROVINCIAL COFFERS.
SO THIS IS REALLY
JUST A TAX GRAB.

Steve continues STILL, HOWARD
HAMPTON THINKS HE'S GOT
A WINNING FORMULA.

Howard says PEOPLE WANT US TO PAY
ATTENTION TO THEIR
HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
PEOPLE WHAT US TO FUND
OUR SCHOOLS PROPERLY.
WORKING PARENTS WANT A
SAFE AND AFFORDABLE PLACE
IN TERMS OF CHILDCARE
FOR THEIR SYSTEM.
PEOPLE WANT US TO LOOK
AFTER THE ENVIRONMENT.
AND AS NEW DEMOCRATS,
WE'RE SAYING VERY CLEARLY
TO PEOPLE, THAT'S WHAT
WE'RE PREPARED TO DO.

In the studio, Steve says OKAY, JOINING US TO
DISCUSS PUBLIC POWER,
THAT'S THE NDP'S
ELECTION PLATFORM.
HERE'S HOWARD HAMPTON,
LEADER OF THE ONTARIO
NEW DEMOCRATS AND THE MPP
FOR KENORA-RAINY RIVER.
WELCOME BACK TO
TVO, Mr. HOWARD,
NICE TO HAVE YOU
HERE, AS ALWAYS.

Howard says NICE TO BE HERE.

Steve says YOU KNOW THE FOLKS
ON THE OTHER SIDE THE 4TH
READING TABLE, YOUR
FELLOW NEW DEMOCRAT AND
FORMER CABINET
COLLEAGUE, RUTH GRIER.
RICHARD MAHONEY FROM
FRASER MILNER CASGRAIN AND
BOREALIS CAPITAL, AND
THIS WEEK, GUY GIORNO,
FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF
TO PREMIER MIKE HARRIS.
LET'S START GOING
THROUGH THIS.
THE FIRST PLANK IN THE
PLATFORM IS STOP
THE HYDRO PRIVATIZATION.
AND MY QUESTION IS, DIDN'T
ERNIE EVES ALREADY DO THAT?

Howard says NOT AT ALL.
HE'S ATTEMPTING TO COVER THE
ISSUE AND HIDE IT WHILE
WE HEAD INTO AN ELECTION
CAMPAIGN BECAUSE HE KNOWS
IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY
POPULAR.
BUT I HEARD HIM SAY
THE OTHER DAY THAT HIS
GOVERNMENT WANTS TO MORE
INCENTIVES IN PLACE TO
INDUCE MORE PRIVATE
GENERATION.
WHEN HE SAID HE WASN'T GOING
TO SELL OFF HYDRO ONE,
HE DIDN'T SAY IT'S OFF
THE TABLE COMPLETELY.
HE SAID, IT'S OFF
THE TABLE FOR NOW.
THIS IS A GOVERNMENT THAT
BELIEVES IN PRIVATE HYDRO,
PRIVATE SCHOOLS,
PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES,
PRIVATE HOSPITALS,
PRIVATE HEALTH CLINICS,
AND THIS IS VERY
MUCH ON THE AGENDA.
THEY JUST KNOW THAT IF
THEY TALKED ABOUT IT NOW,
IT WOULD BE OVERWHELMINGLY
REJECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

Steve says WOULD YOU CUT
ANY TAXES?

Howard says PUT IT THIS WAY, I
WOULD NOT RAISE TAXES
FOR 97 PERCENT OF THE
PEOPLE IN THIS PROVINCE.
THEY'RE ALREADY BEING HIT
WITH TUITION FEE INCREASES,
WITH PROPERTY TAX
INCREASES,
AND NEW USER FEES,
CO-PAYMENT FEES
EVERYWHERE THEY TURN.
BUT I THINK THE 3 PERCENT OF
PEOPLE WHO HAVE INCOMES
OVER 100,000 DOLLARS NEED TO MAKE
A GREATER CONTRIBUTION
TO THINGS LIKE OUR
PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.

Steve says LET'S GET INTO THAT.
YOU WANT TO CREATE TWO NEW
TAX BRACKETS, IN FACT,
ONE FOR THOSE MAKING
OVER 100,000 A YEAR,
ANOTHER FOR THOSE MAKING
OVER 150,000 A YEAR.
YOU ESSENTIALLY RAN ON
THAT SAME IDEA
LAST TIME, GOT NINE SEATS.
WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
THAT PEOPLE WILL BE
ANY MORE ATTRACTED TO
THAT IDEA THIS TIME?

Howard says BECAUSE PEOPLE SEE
NOW MORE THAN EVER
THAT OUR SCHOOLS
NEED THE FUNDING.
THE CONSERVATIVES' OWN
EDUCATION TASK FORCE CHAIR,
Mr. ROZANSKI, CAME
FORWARD AND SAID, LOOK,
WE'RE UNDER FUNDING OUT
ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY
SCHOOLS BY 2
BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
CONSERVATIVES HAVE NO
PROGRAM TO PUT THE MONEY
BACK IN, NOR DO THE
LIBERALS, BUT WE DO.
AND I HAVE TO SAY, I'M
IN THAT TAX BRACKET.
MY INCOME IS
107,000 DOLLARS A YEAR.
FOR THE INCOME ABOVE
100,000 DOLLARS A YEAR,
PAYING ADDITIONAL
3 PERCENT ON THAT 7,000 DOLLARS,
WOULD BE ABOUT
210 DOLLARS FOR ME.
THAT'S A BETTER INVESTMENT
PAYING THE ADDITIONAL
210 DOLLARS THAN SENDING MY
KIDS TO PRIVATE SCHOOL
AT 10- OR 15,000 DOLLARS A YEAR.
AND I THINK MOST
PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THAT.
BUT THE BEST WAY TO DO THIS,
THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAY
TO DO THIS, AND THE
FAIREST WAY TO DO IS,
IS TO MAKE A GREATER
CONTRIBUTION NOW
TO OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM.

Steve says LET ME PURSUE TAX CUTS
WITH YOU A BIT, THOUGH,
BECAUSE YOU'VE SAID YOU WOULD
NOT CUT ANY TAXES, PER SE.
BUT THE NDP DURING THE
COURSE OF THE PAST SESSION
DID SAY, IT FAVOURED
LOWERING THE RETAIL
SALES TAX BY ONE
PERCENTAGE POINT.
IS THAT NOW NOT A
PART OF YOUR PLATFORM?

Howard says WE SAID AT A
PARTICULAR TIME,
WHEN THERE WAS REAL CONCERN
ABOUT HOW THE ECONOMY
WAS GOING TO DO, THAT A
RETAIL SALES TAX CUT MADE
MORE SENSE IN TERMS OF
STIMULATING THE ECONOMY,
AND MADE MORE SENSE FOR THE
VAST MAJORITY OF WORKING
PEOPLE THAN SIMPLY
CONCENTRATING ON MORE
INCOME TAX CUTS AT
THE TOP END.

Steve says PERIOD, FULL STOP.
GUY, LET ME BRING
YOU IN AT THIS POINT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF
A CHANCE YOU'VE HAD TO
GIVE THIS THING THE ONCE
OVER, BUT LET'S START WITH
THE ISSUE OF TAXES.
Mr. HAMPTON SAYS, BY RAISING
TAXES ON THE HIGHEST EARNERS
IN OUR SOCIETY, HE CAN
RAISE SOME EXTRA MONEY,
MAYBE AS MUCH AS 2 BILLION DOLLARS,
MAYBE A BILLION AND
THREE-QUARTERS, TO PUT INTO
PROGRAMS THAT HE THINKS
YOUR FRIENDS HAVE STARVED
AND NEED ATTENTION.
TO WHICH YOU SAY WHAT?

Guy Giorno in his forties, clean-shaven with dark brown hair. The caption changes to "Guy Giorno. Former aide to Mike Harris."

He says WELL, I THINK THE EXPERIENCE
THE LAST 10 YEARS HAS SHOWN
THAT GOVERNMENTS THAT HAVE
CUT INCOME TAXES HAVE
ACTUALLY INCREASED THEIR
REVENUES, WHEREAS THE NDP,
WHEN IT WAS IN POWER, RAISED
INCOME TAX RATES AND
TOOK IN EACH YEAR LESS
AND LESS REVENUE.

Steve says DOESN'T THAT HAVE MORE
TO DO WITH THE TIMES
BOTH PARTIES WERE
GOVERN IN AS OPPOSED TO?

Guy says IT HAS TO DO WITH THE
FACT THAT TAX CUTS
AND AN AGENDA WHICH WAS
DESIGNED TO STIMULATE
THE ECONOMY RESULTS IN A GROWING
ECONOMY AND MORE REVENUE
FOR GOVERNMENT TO SPEND
ON PROGRAMS THAT ARE
IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE -

Steve says OKAY, HE'S TALKING
ABOUT RAISING TAXES
ON JUST THE
HIGHEST EARNERS.
IS THAT SOMETHING
YOU'D PHILOSOPHICAL -

Guy says WELL, HE'S TALKING
ABOUT RAISING TAXES
ON THE HIGHEST EARNERS.
HE'S TALKING ABOUT RAISING
TAXES ON CORPORATIONS.

Howard says LET'S BE CLEAR, I'M
TALKING ABOUT RESTORING
CORPORATE TAXES TO THE LEVEL
THEY WERE AT BETWEEN '93
AND 2000, A TIME WHEN ALL
CORPORATIONS WERE
DOING VERY WELL,
THANK YOU.
THEY WERE ABLE TO HAVE
SIZEABLE PROFITS AND
PAY THEIR TAXES, AS WELL.

Guy says I THINK Mr. HAMPTON'S
GOT THIS RIGHT,
THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO
CAMPAIGN ON A PLATFORM
OF SPENDING MORE AND EXPANDING
THE REACH OF GOVERNMENT
AND INCREASING THE
SIZE OF GOVERNMENT,
YOU HAVE TO BE HONEST AND
UP FRONT WITH THE VOTERS
ABOUT WHERE YOU'RE GOING
TO GET THE MONEY.
AND THAT DOES REQUIRE
RUNNING A DEFICIT
OR INCREASING TAXES OR
SOME COMBINATION OF BOTH.
SO UNLIKE THE LIBERALS,
THE NDP'S BEING CLEAR
AND UP FRONT ABOUT THAT.
IT'S A CLEAR AND
COHERENT VISION.
IT'S ALSO THE WRONG VISION
BECAUSE THE HISTORY,
I THINK, OF CANADA AND
NORTH AMERICA SHOWS THAT
THOSE JURISDICTIONS THAT
HAVE INCREASED TAXES,
EVEN ON CORPORATIONS, EVEN
ON THOSE HIGHLY SKILLED
WORKERS YOU WANT TO
ATTRACT TO THIS PROVINCE
AND THIS COUNTRY, IS
THE WRONG WAY TO GO.

Steve says OKAY, RICHARD, LET ME
GET SOME FEEDBACK FOR YOU.
GIVE ME YOUR TAKE
ON PUBLIC POWER,
PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS
FOR ONTARIO.

Richard Mahoney is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short white hair. The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

He says THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD
IDEAS IN THE DOCUMENT.
I THINK, FIRST OF ALL,
AND I THINK YOU COMMEND
Mr. HAMPTON FOR PUTTING OUT
HIS PLATFORM IN ADVANCE
OF THE ELECTION FOR PEOPLE
TO HAVE A LOOK AT IT,
AS LIBERALS HAVE
DONE, I GUESS,
THREE-FIFTHS OF
THEIRS SO FAR.
SO, KUDOS TO
HIM FOR THAT.
I THINK HE IS ALSO WISE TO
FOCUS - TO JETTISON SOME
OF THE STUFF THAT MAYBE THEY
TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST
THAT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE IN
OVERALL CAMPAIGN SENSE
IN TERMS OF AFFORDING
THOSE THINGS.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE IDEA OF
THE RETAIL SALES TAX CUT.
IT WOULD BE NICE TO DO
BUT WE CAN'T AFFORD IT
AS A PROVINCE.
I GUESS WHAT IS AMUSING IS,
AND I SUSPECT THIS CAMPAIGN
WILL BE NO DIFFERENT FROM
THE LAST CAMPAIGN, STEVE,
THAT THE TORIES WILL TELL
YOU THAT THE LIBERALS
AND THE NDP ARE ALIKE.
THE NDP WILL TELL
YOU THE LIBERALS
AND THE TORIES
ARE ALIKE.
AND THE LIBERALS HOPEFULLY
WILL CAMPAIGN ON
THEIR IDEAS FOR A
BETTER ONTARIO.

Howard says ACTUALLY, I'M NOT GOING
TO TELL YOU THAT.

Richard says WHAT ARE YOU
GOING TO TELL ME?

Howard says I'M GOING TO TELL
YOU VERY CLEARLY,
I THINK THE CONSERVATIVE
AGENDA IS CLEAR NOW.
IT IS ABOUT PRIVATIZATION
OF PUBLIC SERVICES.
IT IS ABOUT PRIVATE
HOSPITALS, PRIVATE MRI'S,
PRIVATE HEALTH CLINICAL,
PRIVATE HIGHWAYS,
PRIVATE JAILS,
PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES,
PRIVATE SCHOOLS,
PRIVATE HYDRO.

Steve says YOU ARE SAYING THAT
SO, Mr. HAMPTON, IF I CAN.
DO WE HAVE THE AD
STANDING BY, MICHAEL?
HAVE WE GOT THE
AD READY TO GO?
ROLL TAPE.

An ad plays under the caption "Ontario NDP ad."
Against a white background, a red and blue ball spin around. A text reads "The Conservatives."

A female voice says THERE'S A LOT
OF SPIN OUT THERE
AND A LOT OF
PROMISES BEING MADE.
BUT AT THE END
OF THE DAY,
WHO'LL STAND BY
THEIR WORD?
DO YOU WANT SPIN
OR SUBSTANCE?

The balls stop spinning and fall down. The text changes to "Spin or Substance?"

Howard appears on screen next to a caption that reads "Howard Hampton."

He says HERE'S WHERE WE STAND.
WE'LL PROTECT THE ESSENTIAL
SERVICES WE ALL NEED.
WE'LL KEEP THEM IN PUBLIC
HANDS AND FUND THEM PROPERLY.
THAT'S WHAT WE MEAN
BY PUBLIC POWER.

Against an orange background, a text reads "publicpower.ca."

The ad ends.

Steve says OKAY, A SECOND AGO, YOU
SAID WERE NOT PAINTING
THE LIBERALS AND
TORIES ALIKE.
THAT AD CLEARLY
DOES IT.

Howard says NO, NO, I WANT TO
BE VERY CLEAR.
I'M SAYING THAT
FOR NEW DEMOCRATS,
PUBLIC SERVICES
REALLY COUNT.
THESE ARE ESSENTIAL
SERVICES.
YOU NEED THEM EVERY
DAY, ALL OF US.
WE SHOULD KEEP THEM
IN THE PUBLIC REALM.
WE SHOULD PROVIDE THEM ON
A NOT-FOR-PROFIT BASIS
SO THEY'RE RELIABLE
AND AFFORDABLE.
I'M SAYING, LIBERALS CAN'T
MAKE UP THEIR MIND ON THIS.
ONE DAY THEY THINK,
WELL, WE'RE OPPOSED
TO PRIVATIZATION.
BY WEDNESDAY, THEY'VE
CHANGED THEIR MIND,
AND BY FRIDAY, THEY
CHANGED THEIR MIND AGAIN.
SO PEOPLE REALLY
DO - YOU KNOW,
IF YOU WANT THESE
PRIVATE SERVICES,
YOU CAN VOTE
CONSERVATIVE.
IF YOU THINK THESE SERVICES
SHOULD BE KEPT IN THE PUBLIC
REALM, NEW DEMOCRATS
OFFER YOU THAT CHOICE.
AND LIBERALS REALLY ARE
SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

Richard says SO IF I COULD JUST
RESPOND TO THAT.
FIRST OF ALL,
I CAN TELL YOU,
I DON'T HAVE ANY TROUBLE
MAKING MY MIND UP.
I DON'T THINK MOST LIBERALS
AND MOST ONTARIANS DO.
OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE
DETERIORATION OF OUR PUBLIC
SERVICES OVER THE LAST
ALMOST DECADE IN THIS
PROVINCE HAS CAUSED
ALL OF US TO SUFFER.
HOWARD MAKES A
GOOD POINT.
IT IS WORTH 210 DOLLARS IN TAXES
MORE FOR US TO HAVE OUR KIDS
IN A PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM
THAN IT IS TO SPEND 10,000
OR 7,000 DOLLARS A YEAR
FOR PRIVATE EDUCATION.
WHERE I THINK HE'S WRONG OR
WHERE HE MIRRORS MY FRIEND,
MR. GIORNO, IS WHAT HE'LL
TRY AND TELL YOU IS THAT
THERE REALLY ISN'T
ANY DIFFERENCE.
HE'LL SAY ABOUT
THE TORIES, WELL,
AT LEAST THEY HAVE THE
HONESTY TO BE FOR PRIVATE
HOSPITALS, PRIVATE JAILS,
PRIVATE EVERYTHING,
AND Mr. GIORNO
WILL SAY, WELL,
AT LEAST THE NDP HAVE
THE HONESTY TO TALK
ABOUT ITS AGENDA.
IT'S A WRONG AGENDA.
AND I GUESS WHAT
I'M SAYING IS,
I GUESS I FEAR A CAMPAIGN
BEREFT OF IDEAS AND A REAL
DEBATE ON THEM AND MORE OF
THE NDP AND TORIES
TRYING TO ATTACK
THE LIBERALS.

Howard says SO WHAT IS THE LIBERAL POSITION
ON HYDRO PRIVATIZATION?

Richard says AND WHAT IS YOUR POSITION
ON THE HYDRO PRIVATIZATION?
IT'S IN THERE, THERE'S NO
PRIVATIZATION RIGHT NOW.
I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY
THAT ALL THREE PARTIES ARE
PROBABLY NOT GOING TO
BE CAMPAIGNING ON
PRIVATIZING HYDRO.
SECONDLY, YOU YOURSELF -
YOU YOURSELF HAVE TALKED
ABOUT THE PRIVATE GENERATION
POWER BEFORE AND
ALLOWING PEOPLE
TO DO THAT.
SO EVERYBODY HAS BEEN PART
OF THAT DEBATE OVER
THE COURSE OF THE
LAST SEVERAL YEARS.
BUT, IT'S A MUG'S GAME
TO SUGGEST THAT ANYONE,
YOUR OR Mr. MCGUINTY OR
Mr. EVES ARE GOING TO CAMPAIGN -

Howard says AND I'M ALSO
VERY CLEAR.
WE NEED TO HAVE
A PUBLICLY OWNED,
NOT-FOR-PROFIT SYSTEM
OF HYDRO ELECTRICITY.
WE HAVE HAD SOME
PRIVATE GENERATION
IN THE PROVINCE IN
THE PAST, WE HAVE.

Richard says AND THERE'S
NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

Howard says HISTORICALLY WHAT THEY DO,
THOUGH, THEY HAVE TO AGREE,
AS BRASCAN USED TO AGREE,
THAT THEY WERE GOING TO
PROVIDE HYDRO AT A RATE THAT
WAS LESS THAN OR EQUAL
TO THE REGULATED
RATE THAT WAS SET.

Steve says HANG ON, PURSUE
THAT, RICHARD, IF I CAN.
UNDER ERNIE EVES'S PLAN,
PEOPLE ARE PAYING
4.3 CENTS PER
KILOWATT HOUR.

Howard says WE'RE PAYING 4.3
CENTS FOR NOW.
AFTER THE ELECTION, THEY'RE
GOING TO BE PAYING A WHOLE
LOT MORE, BECAUSE THERE'S
ABOUT 300 MILLION
DOLLARS IS BEING HIDDEN FROM
THEM RIGHT NOW.

Steve says OKAY, HANG ON, IF
YOU WIN, WHAT WOULD IT BE?

Howard says IT WOULD BE
POWER AT COST.

Steve says WHICH IS WHAT?
I WOULD ESTIMATE RIGHT
NOW, YOU'RE PROBABLY
LOOKING AT ABOUT
4.5 CENTS, 4.6 CENTS.
BUT THE POINT IS, YOU'D BE
PAYING THE TRUE COST OF
OF DEVELOPING AND
PROVIDING HYDRO ELECTRICITY.
YOU WOULDN'T BE PAYING
FOR THE PROFIT-TAKERS,
COMMISSION-TAKERS, AND
FEE-TAKERS WHO ARE
ALL ON YOUR HYDRO
BILL NOW.

Steve says ENTER MR GIORNO.
YOUR VIEW ON THAT.

Guy says WELL, I THINK THAT
IF YOU LOOK AT
THE ANALYSIS DONE BY
DVR'S AND MOODY'S,
AND OTHER BOND
RATING SERVICES,
THEY LOOKED AT THE EVES'
HYDRO PLAN AND THEY
LEFT THE PROVINCE'S
CREDIT RATING UNCHANGED,
WHICH MEANS THAT
THE NUMBERS WORK.
[laughter]
WHICH MEANS THAT OVER
THE LIFE OF THE PLAN,
THE REVOLVING PRICE
WITH A FLAT 4.3 CENTS
FOR CONSUMERS DOES
BALANCE OUT AND DOES WORK
WITHOUT A COST
TO TAXPAYERS.

Ruth says OH, STEVE, LET ME IN.
THERE'S ABSOLUTELY
NO EVIDENCE OF THAT.

Howard says THEY FORCED ALL
THAT PAYING DOWN
ONTO THE MUNICIPAL
UTILITIES.
SO YOU'VE GOT TORONTO
HYDRO THAT IS TRYING
TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY
AVOID BANKRUPTCY.
THIS IS THE OLD
DOWNLOAD PROBLEM.
CONSERVATIVES HAVE CREATED
A TREMENDOUS DIFFICULTY.
NOW THEY SHOVE IT DOWN ON
THE MUNICIPAL UTILITIES
AND SAY, YOU
CARRY THE PAIN.

Steve says WE'RE ABOUT TEN
MINUTES INTO THIS SHOW
AND RUTH HASN'T
SAID A THING YET,
SO I GOT TO GET
YOU IN, RUTH.

Ruth Grier is in her sixties, with short white hair. The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

She says HOWARD IS SAYING
IT VERY WELL,
BETTER THAN I COULD.
BUT IT'S THE 4.3 CENTS THAT
REALLY STICKS IN MY CRAW
BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE, I THINK,
BEING CONNED INTO
THINKING THAT THEY'RE
ONLY PAYING 4.3 CENTS.
WE, THE PUBLIC, ARE
PAYING THE DIFFERENCE.
AND THE FOLLY OF IT ALL IS
THAT THE CONSERVATIVES BEGAN
THIS PRIVATIZATION SELL
OFF BECAUSE THEY
WERE WORRIED ABOUT
HYDRO'S DEBT.
HOW IN EARTH DO THEY THINK
SOMEBODY IS PAYING FOR
THE 38 CENTS AN HOUR THAT
WE'RE IMPORTING FROM
THE STATES BECAUSE OF
THEIR INCOMPETENCE?

Steve says UNDERSTOOD.
LET'S GET INTO SOME
OF THE OTHER ITEMS
THAT ARE IN THE
CAMPAIGN DOCUMENT.
RENT CONTROLS.
YOU WANT TO FREEZE RENT
CONTROLS FOR TWO YEARS.

Howard says FREEZE
RENTS FOR TWO YEARS.

Steve says RENTS, EXCUSE ME,
NOT RENT CONTROLS.

Howard says RE-CREATE A REAL RENT
CONTROL SYSTEM, YES.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT
WILL DO TO THE PRIVATE
CONSTRUCTION OF RENTAL
HOUSING IN ONTARIO
IF YOU FREEZE RENTS
FOR TWO YEARS?

Howard says THERE IS NO PRIVATE
CONSTRUCTION OF RENTAL HOUSING.
I'VE TALKED TO
THOSE DEVELOPERS.
THEY WILL TELL YOU THEY'RE
NOT INTERESTED IN BUILDING
HOUSING FOR MODEST AND
LOWER INCOME PEOPLE.
THEY'LL JUST
TELL YOU THAT.
THEY'RE IN IT TO
MAKE A PROFIT AND
THEY DON'T MAKE
ENOUGH PROFIT.
THEY'LL ALSO TELL YOU
THAT IF YOU WANT HOUSING
THAT IS AFFORDABLE FOR FOLKS
WHO ARE TRYING TO LIVE
ON LOW AND MODEST
INCOMES, GOVERNMENT
IS GOING TO HAVE
TO BE THERE.
THEY'LL EITHER HAVE TO
SUBSIDIZE THE PRIVATE
DEVELOPERS, AND THEY'LL GIVE
YOU A LONG LIST OF WAYS
WHERE THEY WOULD
LIKE A SUBSIDY,
OR YOU HAVE TO GET INTO
BUILDING IT YOURSELF.
I'M SIMPLY SAYING, IT'S
MORE COST EFFECTIVE
TO BUILD IT YOURSELF.

Steve says HOW ABOUT
MINIMUM WAGE?
SOME OF ARE OLD ENOUGH
TO REMEMBER STEPHEN LEWIS
RUNNING ON INCREASING
THE MINIMUM WAGE
SIGNIFICANTLY WAY
BACK IN THE 1970s.
AND HE GOT CREAMED ON
THAT AND HE ADMITTED
MANY YEARS AFTER, HE
DIDN'T APPRECIATE
WHAT THAT WOULD DO
TO SMALL BUSINESS.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING
IT UP TO 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR,
WHICH IS WHAT, ABOUT 1.25 DOLLARS
INCREASE, 1.15 DOLLAR INCREASE?

Howard says YOU KNOW WHAT IT
AMOUNTS TO?

Steve says TELL ME.

Howard says IF THE MINIMUM WAGE HAD
BEEN INCREASED AT 2 PERCENT
A YEAR SINCE 1995, INSTEAD
OF BEING FROZEN OVER
THOSE EIGHT YEARS, MINIMUM
WAGE WOULD BE 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR.
NOW, UNITED STATES HAS
ACTUALLY INCREASED THEIR
MINIMUM WAGE BY 40 PERCENT
IN THE LAST THREE YEARS
OF THE '90s, AND THEY
DID A LOT OF STUDIES.

Steve says STILL
LOWER THAN OURS.

Howard says WELL, EXCEPT WHEN YOU DO
THE CURRENCY EXCHANGE,
IT'S ABOUT 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR.

Steve says OKAY.

Howard says AND WHAT THEY FOUND AFTER
INCREASING THEIR MINIMUM WAGE,
IS THAT IT ACTUALLY,
BESIDES HELPING LOWER INCOME
WORKERS, IT WAS A REAL
BENEFIT TO SMALL BUSINESS.
WHY?
BECAUSE A MINIMUM WAGE
WORKER SPENDS ALMOST
ALL OF HIS OR HER INCOME
IN THE LOCAL COMMUNITY.
THEY DON'T GO TO
FLORIDA FOR VACATION.
THEY DON'T BUY AN
EXPENSIVE FOREIGN CAR.
THEY SPEND IT ALL, VIRTUALLY
ALL OF IT IN THE LOCAL
COMMUNITY, ON THINGS LIKE
RENT, ON FOOD, ON CLOTHING.

Steve says IF THAT'S TRUE, THEN WHY
HASN'T THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT OVER
SEVEN-AND-A-HALF YEARS
EVER INCREASED THE
MINIMUM WAGE?

Howard says IT'S AN
IDEOLOGICAL THING.
FOR CONSERVATIVES, YOU'LL
OFTEN HEAR THE STORY
THAT WE SHOULD ALL BE
WORKING FOR LESS.
ALL RIGHT?
SO TEACHERS SHOULD
BE WORKING FOR LESS.
NURSES SHOULD BE
WORKING FOR LESS.
EVERYONE EXCEPT CONSERVATIVE
MPP'S SHOULD BE WORKING
FOR LESS,
ACCORDING TO THEM.
SO IT'S REALLY AN
IDEOLOGICAL THING.

Steve says GUY?

Guy says THE NDP PLATFORM WOULD
RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE
TO THE RATE WHICH IS
ABOUT 10 CENTS AN HOUR
CANADIAN ABOVE THE US
AVERAGE, WHICH IS 7.90 DOLLARS,
AND IT WOULD DO IT IN AN
ECONOMY WHERE WORKERS
ARE LESS PRODUCTIVE.
OUR LABOUR FORCE IS LESS
PRODUCTIVE AND WE'RE MORE
INEFFICIENT, WHICH IS A
RECIPE FOR ECONOMIC
DISASTER AND FOR JOBS
GOING SOUTH OF THE BORDER.

Steve says HEAR HIM OUT.
LET'S HEAR HIM OUT.

Howard says I SWEAR I HEARD
CONSERVATIVES SAYING,
YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMY
IN ONTARIO IS ROBUST.
THAT IT'S DOING
VERY WELL.

Guy says THE ECONOMY IN ONTARIO IS
ACTUALLY OUT-PERFORMING
THE ECONOMIES OF ANY
THE G7 NATIONS.

Howard says SO WHY CAN'T WE RAISE
THE MINIMUM WAGE?

Guy says BUT THE PRODUCTIVITY
GAP BETWEEN US
AND THE AMERICA STATES
CONTINUES TO RISE,
AND THAT'S IN FACT THE POINT
THAT WE'VE TRYING TO MAKE
IS THAT YOU CAN NEVER TAKE
PROGRESS FOR GRANTED.
YOU CAN NEVER REST ON
YOUR LAURELS AND SAY,
OKAY, THAT'S ENOUGH.
THAT'S ENOUGH OF
SPENDING CONTROL.
THAT'S ENOUGH OF
SPENDING WISELY.
THAT'S ENOUGH OF
COMPETITIVE TAXES.
WE CAN GO BACK TO THE OLD
DAYS OF HIGH TAXES
AND DEFICITS SPENDING.

Steve says RICHARD WANTS IN.

Richard says IT'S NOT MY JOB TO LEAP TO
Mr. HAMPTON'S DEFENCE,
BUT I MUST SAY ON
THIS ONE, ANYONE WHO
SUGGESTS THAT
PAYING WORKERS LESS
IS THE SOLUTION TO OUR
PRODUCTIVITY PROBLEMS,
IS READING TOO MANY
ECONOMIC'S TEXT BOOKS.
YOU TALK ABOUT
RENT CONTROLS,
THE RENTAL HOUSING.
THAT'S AN
IMPORTANT ISSUE.
WE HAVE TO DO
TWO THINGS.
Mr. HAMPTON IS RIGHT TO
INSIST ON A SYSTEM OF RENT
CONTROLS, AND I GUESS WHERE
WE'RE LACKING IS WHAT
WE NEED IN THIS PROVINCE IS
SOMEHOW TO CONVINCE PEOPLE,
THE PUBLIC AND
PRIVATE SECTOR,
TO BEGIN TO BUILD
THOSE RENTAL UNITS.
HE'S RIGHT.
VIRTUALLY NOTHING HAS BEEN
BUILT IN THE LAST -

Steve says NO GOVERNMENT HAS
FIGURED OUT HOW TO DO THAT
SINCE RENT CONTROLS WERE
BROUGHT IN 25 YEARS AGO.

Ruth says
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

Richard says WHAT'S
MISSING RIGHT NOW
IN THE PACKAGE IS WHAT'S
CALLED THE RENT SUPPLEMENT
FROM THE PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT.
WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS GIVE
AN ALLOWANCE TO PEOPLE
TO BRING DOWN THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN WHAT IS MARKET RENT
RIGHT NOW AND WHAT
THEY CAN AFFORD,
30 OR 40 PERCENT
OF THEIR INCOME.

Steve says GOVERNMENTS
HAVE DONE IT.
I KNOW YOUR GOVERNMENT
DID IT WHEN IT WAS IN.

Ruth says GOVERNMENTS
HAVE DONE IT.
AND CERTAINLY OUR
GOVERNMENT DID IT
IN CO-OPERATION WITH
A WHOLE LOT OF VOLUNTARY
NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS,
WHETHER IT BE CO-OPS,
WHETHER IT BE CHURCHES,
OR MUNICIPALITIES.
AND THE RENT SUPPLEMENT SCHEME
THAT THE LIBERALS FAVOUR
IS MERELY PUTTING
MONEY INTO THE POCKETS
OF THE LANDLORDS WITHOUT A
GOOD TOUGH RENT CONTROL.
I DON'T AGREE
WITH THAT AT ALL.
YOU'RE JUST ENCOURAGING THE
LANDLORDS TO INCREASE
THE RENT IN ORDER TO PICK
UP THE RENT SUPPLEMENT,
AND YOU HAVE NO CAPITAL
ASSET FOR YOUR INVESTMENT.

Richard says WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IN
THE HOUSING FRONT IS,
WE HAVE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN
AGREEMENT WITH THE PROVINCE
TO PUT MONEY INTO THE
CONSTRUCTION OF THE UNITS,
BUT NO ONE IS BUILDING THOSE
UNITS BECAUSE THEY INSIST
ON BUILDING THEM AT WHAT
THEY CALL MARKET RENT.
AND MARKET RENT IS TOO MUCH
FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN NEED.

Howard says EVERYWHERE ACROSS ONTARIO
THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF FOLKS
OUT THERE, HOUSING CO-OPS,
CHURCH ORGANIZATIONS,
AND OTHER COMMUNITY
ORGANIZATIONS
THAT ARE ANXIOUS TO BUILD
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
ARE ANXIOUS TO PUT TOGETHER
THE COALITIONS TO DO THAT.
WHY?
BECAUSE IT'S NOT BEING BUILT
BY PRIVATE DEVELOPERS.
DEVELOPERS WILL TELL
YOU THIS THEMSELVES,
THEY'RE IN IT TO MAKE MONEY,
AND YOU CAN'T MAKE MONEY
BUILDING HOUSING FOR
SOMEONE WHO HAS AN INCOME
OF 30,000 OR 40,000 DOLLARS.
THEY'RE INTERESTED IN BUILDING
TOP-LEVEL CONDOMINIUMS.
THAT'S WHERE YOU
MAKE THE MONEY.
YET PEOPLE NEED HOUSING.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO ORGANIZE
YOUR LIFE FOR EDUCATION,
FOR TRAINING, FOR
WORK, FOR ANYTHING.

Steve picks up a pamphlet featuring a picture of Howard and a text that reads "Public Power."

He says THIS DOCUMENT, I GOT
TO HAND IT TO YOU,
IS ABSOLUTELY CHOCK
FULL OF POLICY,
AS WE WOULD EXPECT A
GOOD NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY
DOCUMENT TO BE.

Howard says YES.

Ruth says AND IT'S
PRACTICAL POLICY.

Howard says PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS.

Steve says THAT'S MY QUESTION.
HERE WE GO.
I KNOW IT SAYS
PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS,
BUT HERE'S MY QUESTION.
CUT POST SECONDARY
TUITION BY 10 PERCENT.
LOWER TRANSIT FARES.
IMMEDIATELY PUT 2 BILLION DOLLARS
BACK INTO EDUCATION.
CREATE A DYNAMIC DOWNTOWN
FUND TO HELP RE-INVIGORATE
OUR MUNICIPAL DOWNTOWNS.
32,000 NEW AFFORDABLE HOMES,
SINCE WE'RE ON THE TOPIC.
11,200 UNITS FOR
THE HOMELESS.
20,000 NEW 10 DOLLAR-A-DAY
DAYCARE SPACES.
Mr. HAMPTON, HOW DO YOU
INTEND TO PAY FOR ALL THIS?

Howard says I'D BE HAPPY TO
TALK ABOUT THAT.
THE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT
IS GOING TO GET CLOSE TO
1.5 BILLION DOLLARS THIS YEAR FROM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
FOR HEALTHCARE.
NOW, THE CONSERVATIVES, MUCH
OF THAT WILL GO INTO PRIVATE
HOSPITALS, PRIVATE MRI'S,
PRIVATE CANCER CENTRES,
ALL OF WHICH MEANS, THE MONEY
ISN'T GOING TO PATIENT CARE,
IT GETS DRAINED OFF INTO
SOMEONE'S PROFIT LINE.
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
SIMILARLY, ON THE EDUCATION
FRONT, I'M SIMPLY SAYING,
YOU CANCEL THE PRIVATE
SCHOOL TAX CREDIT.
IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO SEND
THEIR CHILDREN TO PRIVATE
SCHOOL, THAT'S A
PRIVATE DECISION.
YOU PAY FOR IT
YOURSELF.

Steve says BUT THAT'S NOT
COSTING THE GOVERNMENT
ANYTHING TODAY.

Howard says WELL, IT'S GOING TO
GET US 500 MILLION DOLLARS.

Steve says EVENTUALLY, NOT YET.
IT'S NOT THERE YET.
50 MILLION DOLLARS FIVE
YEARS FROM NOW.

Ruth says 50 MILLION DOLLARS.

Steve says 50 MILLION DOLLARS SO THAT
DOESN'T HELP GET -
OKAY, ALL RIGHT,
LET'S KEEP GOING.

Howard says SECONDLY, AS I'VE SAID,
I THINK - I'VE TALKED TO
A LOT OF PARENTS OUT THERE
WHO ARE VERY WORRIED
ABOUT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM,
AND THEY'VE DONE
THE CALCULUS THEMSELVES.
THEY WOULD RATHER MAKE A
CONTRIBUTION ON THE INCOME
TAX SIDE, IF THEY KNOW IT'S
GOING INTO THEIR CHILD'S
EDUCATION, THAN FACE THE
PROSPECT OF HAVING TO
PAY TUITION FEES OF 10- OR
15,000 DOLLARS IN A PRIVATE SCHOOL.
IT JUST MAKES SENSE.

Steve says BUT I'M TRYING TO DO
THE MATH HERE AND
I'VE ADDED UP CORRECTLY THE
COST OF THE COMMITMENTS
THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO
MAKE AND I THINK
I'M UP AROUND
6 BILLION DOLLARS.
I THINK YOU'VE GOT ABOUT
2.5 BILLION DOLLARS COSTED HERE.

Howard says 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS FROM THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT ON HEALTHCARE.
1.5 BILLION FROM THE
EDUCATION EXCELLENCE FUND.
JUST ECONOMIC GROWTH ALONE,
MODEST ECONOMIC GROWTH
IS GOING TO GET YOU CLOSE
TO 2 BILLION RIGHT THERE.
THE CHANGE IN
CORPORATE TAXES,
SIMPLY RESTORING CORPORATE
TAXES TO THE LEVEL THEY WERE
AT BETWEEN '93 AND 2000,
WHEN EVERY CORPORATION
IN ONTARIO ADMITTED, HEY,
WE'RE DOING QUITE FINE.

Steve says DO YOU THINK THAT WILL
AFFECT THE ECONOMY AT ALL?

Howard says NO, I DON'T.

Steve says YOU DON'T THINK ANY
COMPANIES WILL DECLINE TO
SET UP SHOP HERE IF YOU
RAISE THE CORPORATE TAXES?

Howard says NO, BECAUSE IN FACT OUR
CORPORATE RATES WILL BE ABOUT
ON PAR WITH THE
NEIGHBOURING JURISDICTIONS
THAT WE DEAL WITH.

Steve says IT'S NOT AN ADVANTAGE
TO HAVE THEM LOWER?

Howard says AND WE SAVE THEM A
LOT OF MONEY ON THEIR
POWER BILL AND THEY'LL
BE QUITE HAPPY.
[laughing]

Ruth says NO, AND THERE HASN'T
BEEN AN ADVANTAGE
HAVE THEM LOWER, AND I
KNOW THAT GUY AND THE
CONSERVATIVES SAY THE
ECONOMY IS STRONG
BECAUSE OF THE TAX CUTS.
THE ECONOMY'S STRONG BECAUSE
THE U.S. ECONOMY HAS BEEN
STRONG, AND PERHAPS BECAUSE
SOME OF THE THINGS THE FEDERAL-

Steve says THE U.S. ECONOMY IS
ACTUALLY NOT THAT STRONG.
THAT'S MY MATH.
AT LEAST HE'S
GOT NUMBERS.

Guy says AT LEAST Mr. HAMPTON
HAS NUMBERS.

Steve says AS OPPOSED TO?

Guy says AS OPPOSED TO THE
LIBERAL PLATFORM.

Richard says
I TOLD YOU.

Howard says I WANT TO SEE
BOTH YOUR NUMBERS.

Steve says GUY'S GOT THE FLOOR.

Guy says THIS PROGRAM IS
VERY SAD AND YOU MADE
THE POINT, STEVE, THAT
THE ECONOMIC PLATFORM,
AN ENTIRE ECONOMIC
PLATFORM WITH NO NUMBERS
AND NO COSTING.
THEN THE LIBERAL LEADER
REACHED INTO HIS BREAST POCKET.

Steve says I DIDN'T
MAKE THAT POINT.

Guy continues AND THE REALITY IS THAT
HIS NUMBERS DON'T ADD UP.
THE NDP NUMBERS DO WORK
IF YOU INCREASE TAXES
BY ABOUT 6 BILLION.
YOU'VE GOT IT RIGHT.

Ruth says NO,
THAT'S NOT FAIR.

Howard says YOU'RE GOING TO BE
1.5 BILLION DOLLARS FROM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
AND I'M JUST SAYING,
DON'T SPEND THAT ON PRIVATE
HOSPITALS AND PRIVATE CLINICS.

Ruth says PUT IT IN
HEALTHCARE CENTRES.

Howard says YOU'RE GOING TO GET
CLOSE TO 2 BILLION DOLLARS
JUST BY MODEST
ECONOMIC GROWTH.
I WOULD RATHER USE THAT ON
THE SERVICES PEOPLE NEED
INSTEAD OF FUNNELING IT OUT
THE DOOR TO MORE TAX CUTS
TO THE WELL OFF AND
CORPORATIONS.

Guy says EVERY PENNY THAT THE
PROVINCE GETS FROM
THE FEDS IS GOING TO
GO TO HEALTHCARE,
BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE
1.5 BILLION DOLLARS THIS YEAR.
PRETTY CLOSE.

Richard says I HOPE
YOU'RE SAYING THAT
THE 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS THAT COMES
FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
ON HEALTHCARE WILL AT LEAST
BE SPENT ON HEALTHCARE.
I THINK THAT IS
WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
NOT TO BE SPENT
ON OTHER THINGS.

Howard says AND IT SHOULD BE SPENT ON
PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION
OF HEALTHCARE AND PUBLIC
PROVISION OF HEALTHCARE,
NOT SIPHONING IT AWAY
INTO PRIVATE HOSPITALS
OR PRIVATE MRI'S.

Richard says FINE, BECAUSE THESE
CHARACTERS WILL JUST
TAKE THAT 1.5 BILLION
AND SPEND IT ON
SOMETHING ELSE
OTHER THAN HEALTHCARE.
SECONDLY, GUY GIORNO
CAN'T RESIST, RIGHT?
WE'RE HEAR TO TALK ABOUT
HOWARD HAMPTON'S PLATFORM
AND GIVE HIM - AND HE
GOES WITHIN 20 SECONDS
TO TALK ABOUT THE
LIBERALS.
HE CAN'T STOP HIMSELF AND
HE'S GOING TO DO IT THE
WHOLE CAMPAIGN ALONG.

Howard says I DO WANT TO SEE
FROM THE LIBERALS
AND THE CONSERVATIVES
THE FULL PLATFORM,
AND A COSTING OF
THE PLATFORM.

Richard says AND YOU'VE GOT THREE FIFTHS OF
OUR PLATFORM NOW
AND YOU'VE GOT IT
COSTED.
WHERE OUR DEBATE WILL
PROBABLY GO WILL BE ON
SOME SPECIFICS IN BETWEEN
THESE TWO PLATFORMS,
THE DIFFERENCE, AND TO
STEVE'S POINT, WHICH IS,
YOUR PROMISES ARE PROBABLY
MORE AGGRESSIVE AND MORE
EXPENSIVE THAN OURS
AND WITH LESS OF
AN ABILITY TO
PAY FOR THEM.

Howard says I STILL WANT TO KNOW
WHAT LIBERAL POSITION IS
ON PRIVATIZATION
OF HYDRO.

Richard says SO DO THEY.

Ruth says I JUST WANT
TO MAKE A POINT.
WE CAN DEBATE THE
DETAILS OF THE PLATFORM,
BUT I THINK THE DISTINCTIVE
POINTS BETWEEN OUR PLATFORM
AND BOTH OF THE OTHER
PARTIES IS GOING TO BE
OUR EMPHASIS ON THE PUBLIC
PROVISION OF SERVICES
THAT ARE ESSENTIAL AND
publicpower.ca IS IT.
AND SO, I THINK THE PEOPLE
OF THIS PROVINCE PERHAPS
VOTED FOR MIKE HARRIS AGAIN
IN '99 BECAUSE THEY
AT LEAST SAID, WE KNEW
WHERE HE STOOD,
AND THEY NOW KNOW WHERE
HOWARD HAMPTON AND THE
NDP STAND, AND IT'S QUITE
DIFFERENT FROM BOTH OF OUR
OPPONENTS AND THAT'S GOING
TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE.

Howard says AND IF YOU WANT TO
KNOW MY DEFINITIVE
POSITION ON HYDRO,
BUY MY BOOK.
IT'LL BE OUT IN
ABOUT THREE WEEKS.

Steve looks at Howard and says YOU WROTE A BOOK?

He says YES.

Steve says YOU ACTUALLY
WROTE IT?

Howard says I DID.

Steve says NO GHOST WRITERS.

Howard says I HAD PEOPLE HELP ME BECAUSE
TO DO SOMETHING OF THAT SIZE,
YOU DO, AND SO WE HAD A
LOT OF PEOPLE ON RESEARCH
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE
IN NDP COMMUNICATIONS,
AND WE'VE PUT
OUT OUR POSITION.
I THINK YOU'LL FIND
IT INTERESTING.

Steve says OKAY, I'M
SURE I WILL.

Howard says IT'S CALLED
PUBLIC POWER .
Ruth says SURPRISE.

Steve DO YOU KNOW HOW
MANY RECOMMENDATIONS
YOU'VE MADE IN HERE?

Howard says YES.

Steve says HOW MANY?

Howard says WELL, THERE'S
THE 11 GENERAL.

Steve says THERE'S
11 IN GENERAL,
BUT THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY
PROMISES WITHIN THOSE
PROMISES, AND I COUNTED
THEM UP THE OTHER DAY AND
IT ACTUALLY COMES UP TO 166
DIFFERENT COMMITMENTS
THAT YOU'VE MADE.
AND MY QUESTION IS -
HOW AM I DOING ON TIME?
TWO MINUTES.
DOES THIS NOT CONFIRM
EVERYBODY'S IMPRESSION
OF THE NDP, WHICH IS THAT
YOU GUYS ARE CONTENT HEAVY,
BUT LIGHT ON
PRACTICALITY AND REALITY?

Howard says THESE ARE VERY
PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS.
RAISING THE NAME WAGE TO
8 DOLLARS AN HOUR, AS I SAID,
AMOUNTS TO 2 PERCENT
A YEAR, EACH YEAR
FOR THE LAST
EIGHT YEARS.
THAT'S QUITE
REASONABLE.
I'M SURE YOU'VE HAD
MORE THAN A 2 PERCENT
INCREASE IN YOUR PAY.

Steve says YOU'D LOSE THAT
BET ACTUALLY.
[laughter]

Howard says WE FACTORED IT
OVER EIGHT YEARS.
THE ISSUE IS
THIS, ALL RIGHT,
WE DO MAKE PRACTICAL
SOLUTIONS FOR SCHOOLS
AND EDUCATION.
WE DO PUT TOGETHER PRACTICAL
SOLUTIONS FOR HEALTHCARE.
BUT MY POINT IS THIS, HERE'S
THE FUNDAMENTAL CHOICE.
WE KNOW WHERE THE
CONSERVATIVES HAVE TAKEN US.
PRIVATE HYDRO COSTS
YOU A LOT MORE MONEY,
THE HYDRO BILL DOUBLES.
PRIVATE HEALTHCARE COSTS
YOU A LOT MORE MONEY.
TRY TO USE HIGHWAY 407,
COSTS YOU A LOT MORE MONEY.
PRIVATE JAILS ARE
COSTING A LOT MORE MONEY.
PRIVATE CANCER CLINICS,
THE AUDITOR SAYS,
COST 500 DOLLARS PER PATIENT
MORE FOR TREATMENT
AT THE PRIVATE
FOR-PROFIT CLINIC.
YOU CAN VOTE FOR THAT.
YOU CAN VOTE FOR THE
PRIVATIZATION
OF ALL THESE SERVICES.
IT WILL COST YOU
MORE MONEY.
IT WILL DELIVER LESS.
NEW DEMOCRATS ARE
SAYING, THE FAIREST WAY,
THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAY,
THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY
TO PROVIDE THESE SERVICES WE
ALL NEED IS TO PROVIDE THEM
PUBLICLY ON A NON-FOR-PROFIT
BASIS SO THE PEOPLE
CAN HAVE ACCESS TO
THEM RELIABLY.
MY ONLY POINT WITH
THE LIBERALS IS,
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY
ARE FROM MONDAY TO WEDNESDAY
TO FRIDAY ON A NUMBER
OF THESE ISSUES.

Richard says YOU HAVE TO LET ME
RESPOND TO THAT.
THAT'S COMPLETELY
UNTRUE.
DALTON
MCGUINTY HAS PUT OUT A VERY
DETAILED PLATFORM
ON BOTH CHILDCARE,
ON HEALTHCARE AND SO FORTH,
AND OF COURSE HE'S NOT
PROMISING, AS IS THE SOCIAL
CONSENSUS OF THE PROVINCE
PROMISED HAVING PRIVATE
DELIVERY OF THEM.
I THINK THE RUBBER'S
GOING TO HIT THE ROAD.
IT'S ON THE COSTS OF THOSE
PROMISES AND WHETHER OR NOT
HE'S FOCUSING APPROPRIATE ON
THE ABILITY TO DELIVER THEM.

Steve says AND WE SHALL STAY TUNED.
THAT'S HOWARD HAMPTON,
LEADER OF THE NDP.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
THANK YOU.
AND TO YOU THREE.
MY THANKS
TO YOU AS WELL.
THAT'S 4TH READING
FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY.
THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2002, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: NDP Platform