Transcript: Child Care | Feb 16, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON “4TH READING.”

In a clip, a woman in her fifties says CHILD CARE IS MUCH MORE THAN
A PLACE TO PUT A CHILD.

Steve says PUTTING CHILDREN FIRST?
IS ONTARIO'S CHILD CARE SYSTEM
WORKING FOR ONTARIO FAMILIES?

Steve, Ruth, and Richard sit with a guest around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a beige coat over a black polo shirt.

Ruth Grier is in her sixties, with short white hair.
Richard Mahoney is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short white hair.

Steve says GOOD AFTERNOON.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
YOU'RE WATCHING “4TH READING.”
A NEW UNIVERSITY STUDY IS
SLAMMING ONTARIO FOR SLASHING
CHILD CARE SPENDING SINCE THE
CONSERVATIVES GAME TO POWER IN '95.
IN THAT TIME, WAITING LISTS FOR
SUBSIDIZED CHILD CARE HAVE
SKYROCKETED AND SPACES HAVE
SHRUNK DRAMATICALLY.
BUT THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S
DOING MORE WITH LESS.
MAKING STRATEGIC INVESTMENTS
FOR THE VULNERABLE CHILDREN IN
ONTARIO, ESPECIALLY IN THE
EARLY YEARS.
IS THE PROVINCE GIVING KIDS A
GOOD HEAD START, OR PUTTING
THEM AT RISK?

A clip plays in which the woman seen earlier speaks.
A caption reads “Martha Friendly. University of Toronto.”
Martha is in her fifties, with curly chestnut hair in a bob.

She says WHAT'S BEEN CUT OUT OF
ONTARIO SPENDING SINCE '95 IN
CONSTANT 2001 DOLLARS IS OVER
100 MILLION DOLLARS FOR
REGULATED CHILD CARE.
THAT'S HEFTS AT THIS IN A
BUDGET OF-- IT TOPPED 600
MILLION dollars IN 1995.

Clips show toddlers playing at a daycare.

Steve says DEEP SOCIAL SPENDING
CUTS BROUGHT IN BY THE MIKE
HARRIS GOVERNMENT WENT TO
LONGER WAITING LISTS FOR
REGULAR LATED CHILD CARE.
CHILD CARE COSTS WERE
DOWNLOADED ON TO MUNICIPALITIES
AND CHANGES TO THE FUNDING
FORMULA WERE MADE.
THIS MEANT LESS MONEY FOR
SCHOOL-RUN DAYCARE.
NOW CRITICS SAY THAT ONTARIO
FAMILIES ARE PAYING THE PRICE.

Now another woman speaks.
A caption reads “Leona Dombrowsky. Liberal Child Care Critic.”
Leona is in her forties, with auburn hair in a bob.

She says WE MUST BEGIN TO INVEST IN--
IN, UM, IN SUPPORTING QUALITY
CARE FOR CHILDREN.
IT'S ABOUT EARLY CHILD
DEVELOPMENT.
AND ENSURING THAT-- THAT
FAMILIES ARE ABLE TO ACCESS
RESOURCES THAT ENABLE THEM TO
ENSURE THAT THEIR CHILDREN ARE
WELL CARED FOR.

The caption changes to "Shelley Martel. NDP Child Care Critic."
Shelley is in her forties, with short brown hair.

She says THERE'S ABOUT 70 percent OF ONTARIO
WOMEN WITH CHILDREN UNDER THE
AGE OF 12 WHO WORK IN THE PAID
WORK FORCE.
BUT ONLY 8.8 percent OF THEM ARE ABLE
TO ACCESS REGULATED CHILD CARE.
THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S TOO
EXPENSIVE.
ONTARIO PARENTS ARE NOW PAYING
THE MOST FOR CHILD CARE THAN
PARENTS RIGHT ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
UM, BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT CUTS.
IT'S NOW COST PROHIBITIVE.

Steve says BUT ONTARIO'S
COMMUNITY SERVICES MINISTER
says BY IMPLEMENTING PROGRAMS
AND TAX CREDITS FOR LOW-INCOME
FAMILIES AND 700 MILLION dollars A YEAR
TOWARDS CHILD CARE, HER
GOVERNMENT IS DOING THE RIGHT
KHING FOR-- THING FOR CHILDREN.

The Minister speaks in her office.
A caption reads “Brenda Elliot. Minister of Children’s Services.”
Brenda is in her fifties, with wavy blond hair in a bob.

She says WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING.
NOT ONLY IN CHILD CARE, BUT
THAT'S-- THAT'S THE ONLY-- NOT
ONLY ONE ELEMENT THAT WE NEED
TO PROVIDE FOR CHILDREN AND
FAMILIES, BUT WE'RE WORKING IN
A VERY BROADWAY TO PROVIDE ALL
KINDS OF SERVICES THAT YOUNG
PARENTS NEED TO RAISE THEIR
CHILDREN AND GIVE THEM THE VERY
BEST START.

The clip ends.

In the studio, Steve says WITH THEIR VIEWS ON
HOW WELL THE CHILDREN ARE
DOING, HERE'S THE PRESIDENT OF
A COMMUNICATIONS AND AN ADVISOR
TO ERNIE EVES.
RUTH GRIER, FORMER NDP CABINET
MINISTER.
AND RICHARD MAHONEY FROM
BOREALIS CAPITAL.
TO YOU FIRST, DO YOU AGREE WITH
THE STUDY, FIRST OF ALL, THAT'S
BEEN DISCUSSED IN THAT PIECE
THAT SUGGESTS-- THAT SUGGESTS
SINCE THE CONSERVATIVES CAME TO
POWER IN '95, ESSENTIALLY TENS
OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE CUT
OUT OF THE BUDGET IN CHILD CARE?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Bev Hammond. Advisor to Ernie Eves."
Bev is in her late thirties, with blond hair in a short bob and bangs. She’s wearing glasses, a beige blazer, and a black turtleneck.

She says NO, IN FACT, I WOULD SUGGEST
THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
HERE IS A STUDY THAT HAD
SPECIFIC PARAMETERS AND DIDN'T
LOOK AT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DID
IN CHILD CARE.
IT WAS VERY SPECIFIC AT WHAT IT
LOOKED LIKE.
JUST TO TALK STRICT BY ABOUT--
STRICTLY ABOUT NUMBERS, FROM
'95, THE NUMBER WAS 600 MILLION dollars.
TODAY, IT'S WELL OVER 540
MILLION dollars PLUS THE 200 MILLION
Dollar TAX CUT THAT-- AND TAX CREDIT
THAT THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
PUT INTO PLACE IN 1998, I
BELIEVE.
FOR, UM, FOR LOW-INCOME AND
WORKING FAMILIES.
AND SO-- SO THAT ACTUALLY ADDS
UP TO A WHOLE LOT MORE MONEY
THAN WHERE WE WERE AT.

Steve says SO YOUR COMPLAINT
WITH THE STUDY IS IT'S TOO
SPECIFIC ON ONE THING AND IF A
MORE COMPLETE PICTURE IS LOOKED
AT, YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS
DOING MORE, ACTUALLY.
HAVE I GOT THAT RIGHT?

Bev says THAT'S RIGHT.
THIS PRESUMES IT'S A ONE-SIZE
FITS ALL SORT OF THING.
IT'S NOT.
ALL THE PROVINCES HAVE
DIFFERENT PROGRAMS.
THAT'S WHY THEY WANT TO CONTROL
THEIR CHILD CARE, UM, DOLLARS
AND NOT HAVE THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT DICTATING WHAT--
WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO.
BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT
NEEDS AND THEY HAVE DIFFERENT,
UM, DIFFERENT INITIATIVES.

Steve says WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A BIT.
RUTH, DO YOU TAKE OBJECTION
TO-- OBJECTION TO WHAT THE
STUDY SAYS.

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth says IT'S NOT JUST CHILD CARE.
BECAUSE TO ME THE BOTTOM LINE IS
ARE OUR CHILDREN DOING BETTER
IN '95?
AND THEY'RE NOT.
IN TORONTO, ONE IN THREE
CHILDREN LIVE IN POVERTY.
MORE EDGE THIS-- MORE OF THEM
WITH SINGLE-PARENTS FAMILY AND
THE INCOME HAS FALLEN, FROM
CUTS IN WELFARE.
LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
ALL OF THE THINGS THAT GIVE A
CHILD AND A FAMILY A FIRM
BASIS.
ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAVE, WHEN
YOU LOOK THE FIGURES, MUCH LESS
SPENT ON LICENSED CHILD CARE.
WHETHER THAT BE IN DAYCARE
CENTRES OR IN FAMILY SETTINGS.
THAN YOU DO IN OTHER PROVINCES.
I MEAN, I THINK QUEBEC IS NOW
AT 980 dollars PER SPACE.
ONTARIO IS-- IS AT 232 dollars.
AND THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS
AROUND 400 dollars.
WE'RE SPENDING--

Steve says WE'RE WORST.

Ruth says WE'RE SPENDING LESS ON
LICENSED CHILD CARE.
AND ANY MONEY THAT THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IS-- HAS PUT INTO
CHILD CARE HAS NOT BEEN SPENT
IN-- SPENT IN ONTARIO.
ON LICENSED CHILD CARE.
FOR THOSE WHO-- WHOSE PARENTS
ARE WORKING AND NEED CARE.

Bev says IF I CAN JUST CLARIFY
SOMETHING.
THE DEFINITION OF LICENSED OR
REGULATED CHILD CARE, JUST SO
EVERYBODY REALIZES IT, IS A
CHILD CARE SITUATION WHERE
THERE ARE MORE THAN I BELIEVE
IT'S A HALF A DOZEN CHILDREN.
SO THE WHOLED IDEA IN ONTARIO
IS, IN FACT, EVERY PARENTS,
WHETHER THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE
ONE, A 1-ON-1 RELATIONSHIP WITH
THEIR CHILD CARE, UM, WORKER OR
WHETHER THEY WANT TO HAVE THEIR
CHILD IN A CHILD CARE SITUATION
WHERE THERE ARE THREE OR FOUR
CHILDREN AND NOT SIX AND ABOVE,
AN INSTITUTIONAL-STYLED CHILD
CARE SITUATION, UM, SHOULD HAVE
ACCESS TO FUNDING AND THAT'S
WHAT THIS GOVERNMENT HAS TRIED
TO DO.
REGULATED CHILD CARE IS, IN
FACT, CHILD CARE IN-- AND ITS
ILLEGAL TO NOT BE REGULATED IF
YOU LOOK AFTER FIVE OR SIX
KIDS.

Steve says NOT INCLUDING YOUR OWN.

Bev says RIGHT.

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard says ONE WAY TO FIX THAT IS TO
CHANGE THAT REGULATION AND
BEV'S PARTY HAS BEEN IN POWER
SINCE '95 AND THEY'RE THE ONES
THAT MADE THAT REGULATION AND
THEY COULD EASILY CHANGE IT.
FIRST OF ALL.
SECONDLY, UM, I AGREE WITH THE
REPORT.
AND I THINK WE'RE FAR WORSE OFF
IN THE CHILD CARE THING.
THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT
IT WILL BE OF THE FEW THINGS
THAT, UM, THAT THE MCGUINTY
LIBERAL, UM, CAMPAIGN WILL
FOCUS ON.
IN TERMS OF SIGNIFICANT
COMMITMENTS.
CHILD CARE WILL BE, UM, WILL BE
ONE OF THOSE FEW THINGS THAT WE
BELIEVE THAT WE CAN AFFORD TO
FOCUS ON.
THIRDLY, IT--

Bev says YOU TALK ABOUT THAT--

Richard says THERE'S LIMITED AMOUNT OF
RESOURCES AROUND, AS YOU AND
OTHERS WOULD AGREE.
WE'RE TAKING A CORPORATE TAX
CUT AND PUTTING IT INTO THAT.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, EVEN IN
ITS YEARS OF MOST SIGNIFICANT
RESTRAINT, THE ONE SOCIAL
PROGRAM THAT THEY DID, UM, AND
INCREASE WAS THE CHILD TAX
BENEFIT.
EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR, EVERY
SINGLE DOLLAR THAT THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN PLOWING
INTO CHILD CARE OVER THE LAST
COUPLE OF YEARS, AND, OF
COURSE, THAT'S INCREASED SINCE
THE FINANCIAL PICTURE HAS, HAS,
UM, HAS BEEN C L AWED BACK.
800 MILLION dollars SO FAR.
THAT THIS GOVERNMENT CLAWS BACK
FROM SOCIAL ASSISTANCE, CHILD
CARE BENEFITS.
SO THAT-- SO THAT THE NET, UM,
NET FAMILIES IN ONTARIO, UM,
DON'T GET THAT ASSISTANCE.

Steve says CAN I GET INTO A BIT
OF A PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION
HERE FOR A SECOND.
BECAUSE I WANT TO KNOW IF
THERE'S A PHILOSOPHICAL DIVIDE
BETWEEN THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE
AND THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE.
DOES THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT
SEE CHILD CARE THE SAME WAY IT
SEES, FOR EXAMPLE, HEALTH CARE
OR EDUCATION, AS A FUNDAMENTAL
BASIC PUBLIC SERVICE THAT THE
GOVERNMENT IS OBLIGAT TODAY
PROVIDE FOR EVERYONE WHO WANTS
IT OR NEEDS IT.
OR IS IT AN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM
LIKE WELFARE AND ONLY SOME
PEOPLE GET IT?

Bev says I THINK THEY ARE TWO
DIFFERENT THINGS, STEVE.
WHAT THIS GOVERNMENT SEES CHILD
CARE AS IS NOT A PROGRAM BUT AS
AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PARENTS TO
DECIDE WHAT-- HOW THEY WANT
THEIR CHILDREN TO BE LOOKED AFTER.
SO INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY PUMPING
MONEY INTO A PROGRAM THAT SAYS
YOU MUST BE IN THIS-- IN THIS
PARTICULAR CHILD CARE REGULATED
ENVIRONMENT TO GET THIS MONEY,
WE'RE SAYING THAT EVERYBODY
SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO-- TO HELP
FOR CHILD CARE.
AND SO-- SO IF YOU'RE-- IF
RICHARD'S 4-YEAR-OLD, IF HE
WANTS TO PUT HIS 4-YEAR-OLD IN
A SITUATION WHERE HE'S GOT
LESS, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN FIVE
OR SIX KIDS IN A DAYCARE, HE
SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO
GOVERNMENT HELP FOR THAT.
IT'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
REGULATED CHILD CARE AND CHILD
CARE OVERALL.

Steve says DO YOU APPRECIATE THE
PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE HERE?

Ruth says I APPRECIATE THE MAJOR
PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENT.
BECAUSE I THINK BEV
CHARACTERIZES HEALTH CARE AS--
CHILD CARE AS ALWAYS
INSTITUTIONALIZED AND
REGULATED.
I THINK ANYBODY LOOKING AFTER
OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN SHOULD
HAVE TO LOOK AFTER A STANDARD,
NO MATTER HOW MANY THEY ARE.
I'VE SEEN TOO MANY KIDS SITTING
IN SMALL APARTMENT INSIDE FRONT
OF THE A TELEVISION EATING
UNHEALTHY LUNCHES BECAUSE THAT
WAS ALL THE PARENTS COULD
AFFORD.
I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
WAITING LISTS OF WORKING
MOTION, LOOKING FOR HELP WITH
CHILD CARE, YOU JUST SEE THE
GROWTH IN THE-- OF THEM OVER
THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
SO I THINK IT'S NOT A PROGRAM,
IT'S AN INVESTMENT.
IF WE DON'T INVEST IN-- I THINK
THE GOVERNMENT HAS A
RESPONSIBILITIES TO PROVIDE AS
MANY CHOICES AS POSSIBLE.
THAT PARENTS CAN AFFORD FOR
CHILDREN FROM 0 TO 6.
AND I THINK THAT IT'S IN OUR
INTERESTS AS A SOCIETY TO GIVE
THOSE CHILDREN A GOOD
FOUNDATION.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT SITTING
IN A NEIGHBOUR'S RECREATION
ROOM, AS MANY OF THEM DO, AND,
UM, IS A GOOD HEALTHY
FOUNDATION.
THERE ARE OTHER CHOICES.

Bev says THAT'S WHAT I DID.
THAT'S JUST ME.

Richard says WHEN WE, UM, WE DON'T LIVE
IN A SOCIETY ANYMORE.
WHERE I THINK THAT WE AS A
GROUP, IF WE HAVE A VIEW ON
THIS, WHERE WE CAN AFFORD TO--
TO, UM, TO, UM, TO THROW
ADDITIONAL MONEY AND SUBSIDIES
TOWARDS CHILD CARE WHERE
THERE'S NOT A DEGREE OF
REGULATION AND CONTROL.
THERE'S TOO MANY RISKS AROUND
OUR KIDS AND TOO MANY RISKS, I
DON'T THINK WE'RE COMFORTABLE
AS--

Steve says SO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?

Richard says WELL, I DON'T WANT TO DO THE
BALLOTING OF THE PLANS HERE.
BUT I THINK IF YOU, UM, IF THE
PROVINCIAL MCGUINTY'S
COMMITMENT, THE PROVINCIAL
LIBERAL PLAN'S COMMITMENT WILL
TOUCH 75 percent OF FAMILIES WITH KIDS
UNDER 4.
AND, UM, AND AS RUTH SUGGESTS,
UM, THAT PLAN WILL BE TARGETED
TOWARDS ONLY, UM, ONLY CHILD
CAREGIVERS WHO, UM, WHO ARE
ACCREDITED AND RECEIVE SOME
FORM OF ON GOING TRAINING.
UM, AND-- AND, UM, AND
THROUGHOUT THE PROVINCE.
I SAY THAT IN A WAY BECAUSE
IT'S THE PARTY SYSTEM-- I THINK
WE'VE ALL SORT OF MOVED I DON'T
KNOW THE POINT THAT WE'RE
WILLING TO GIVE THAT SUBSIDY TO
ANYBODY.

Ruth says IT'S A VOUCHER SYSTEM WHERE
PEOPLE GO AND BUY THEIR CHILD CARE.
THAT'S-- I THINK THAT'S REALLY
GOING TO MOVE AWAY FROM-- IN MY
NEIGHBOURHOOD, THERE'S
COOPERATIVE CHILD CARE CENTRES,
THERE'S Y-RUN CHILD CARE
CENTRES.
THERE'S A WHOLE VARIETY.
BUT THEY'RE ALL NON-PROFIT
CENTRES OF DIFFERENT FORMS.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE VOUCHER
SYSTEM IS GOING TOO GOOD,
UNLIKE WHAT THE NDP ARE
PROPOSING OR WHAT THE SITUATION
IS IN QUEBEC IS A CERTAIN
AMOUNT PER HEAD PER CHILD.
WHICH ENABLES THEM TO FORMULATE
WHAT WORKS BEST IN THEIR
NEIGHBOURHOOD.

Richard says RIGHT.
FAIR COMMON.
AND THE OTHER DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THE NDP PLAN IS THAT
THIS ONE WILL ACTUALLY, THE
PROVINCIAL LIBERAL PLAN WILL
ACTUALLY CAPTURE A MUCH WIDER
NUMBER OF ONTARIO FAMILIES THAN
YOURS WILL.
THERE'S A TRADE OFF IN THAT
THING FOR SURE.

Bev says THE WIDER NUMBER THING IS
THE MANDATE OF THIS GOVERNMENT.
THAT'S PRECISELY WHY WE GOT
AWAY FROM JUST SAYING THAT YOU
CAN ONLY GET HELP WHEN YOU'RE
IN A ENVIRONMENT-- IN A CERTAIN
ENVIRONMENT.
DIFFERENT PARENTS HAVE DIFFERENT
NEEDS.
THEIR KIDS ALL HAVE DIFFERENT
NEEDS.
IT'S NOT A ONE-SIZE FITS ALL.
THERE ARE MORE CHILDREN IN
ONTARIO NOW, MORE FAMILIES IN
ONTARIO GETTING HELP FOR CHILD
CARE THAN THERE WAS WHEN--
WHEN, WHEN RUTH'S PARTY WAS IN
POWER.
AND CERTAINLY WHEN THE LIBERALS
WERE IN POWER.

Ruth says LET'S MAKE A DISSTING
BETWEEN BOTH FAMILIES WHERE
ARE-- DISTINCTION BETWEEN BOTH
FAMILIES WHERE BOTH PARENTS ARE
WORKING AND THEY NEED CHILD
CARE.
AS TO THE DROP-IN CENTRES WHERE
THEY CAN GET AN ENHANCEMENT IN
CHILD CARE EDUCATION.
AND IN ONTARIO, THE PHRASE IS
IN YOUR GOVERNMENT.
A BC, ANYTHING BUT CHILD CARE.
MONEY HAS GONE INTO GOOD
PROGRAMS.
PROGRAMS THAT ARE DESIRABLE
THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE.
BUT THEY'RE NOT HELPING THE
FAMILY WHO-- WHO HAVEN'T GOT
ANYWHERE TO HAVE THEIR CHILDREN
WELL LOOKED AFTER.

Richard says THE HARRIS GOVERNMENT DID
SOMETHING--

Ruth says THEY WOULD--

Steve says HANG ON.
RICHARD HAS THE FLOOR.

Richard says HARRIS DID SOMETHING GOOD.
THE HARRIS GOVERNMENT DID
SOMETHING GOOD, APPOINTED DR.
FRASER MUSTER TO GO AROUND AND
GET A-- GET A REPORT, AND
EVERYONE AGREED WHO ARE EXPERTS
ON THIS, WHICH WAS A VERY
IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD.
AND WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT RUTH
SUGGEST IS THAT THEY DIDN'T
FOLLOW THROUGH ON THESE EARLY
CHILDHOOD EDUCATION THING.
BECAUSE THERE'S SIGNIFICANT
COST ITEMS TO THAT.

Steve says LET'S PUT A QUESTION
TO THIS.
DR. MUSTER AND-- AND THERE WAS
A SECOND REPORT DONE THREE
YEARS LATER SAYING YOU DIDN'T
DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE REGISTERS
WE PUT IN THE FIRST REPORT--
RECOMMENDATION THAT IS WE PUT
IN THE FIRST REPORT.
ONE QUIT OVER IT.
SHE WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT IT.

Bev says IT'S A--
IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT INITIATIVE.

Steve says CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT ISSUE?

Bev says WELL, I CAN CERTAINLY SPEAK
TO IT IN THAT WE'VE DONE A
NUMBER OF THINGS DURING OUR
MANDATE, NOT JUST IN CHILD
CARE, BUT HELPING DISADVANTAGED
CHILDREN, TOO.
EARLY READING PROGRAMS, EARLY
MATH PROGRAMS, SPECIAL ED
PROGRAMS.
PROGRAMS FOR KIDS WITH AUTISM.
SPECIAL MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS
FOR CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL
ISSUES.
THESE ARE IMPORTANT EARLY
CHILDREN PROGRAMS.

Ruth says YOU'RE NOT COVERING EVERYBODY.
AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU SAY
YOU'RE DOING THAT, AND YOU ARE,
SCHOOLS ARE UNABLE TO TO
PROVIDE SPACE BECAUSE THEY HAVE
TO CHARGE COMMUNITY GROUPS FOR
USE.
THE-- THE ABILITY OF SCHOOLS TO
PROVIDE ANY ENHANCEMENT IS
GONE.
A THE LOT OF NEIGHBOURHOOD
PROGRAM ARE CLOSING DOWN
BECAUSE THEY CAN FIND PUBLIC
SPACE TO BE RUN.
SO FOR EVERYTHING GOOD YOU
MIGHT DO, THERE ARE FAR MORE
THINGS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LEDGER.

Steve says WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF
TIME IN THIS SECOND AM AND WE
HAVE A COUPLE MORE THINGS WE
WANT TO GET TO.
AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE BLTEDS
AND SOMEBODY HERE TALKED ABOUT
THE-- ABOUT THE BILLION DOLLARS
OR SOMEBODY HERE TALKED ABOUT
THE BILLION DOLLARS THAT THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL EARMARK
IN THEIR FEDERAL BUDGET.
WE'RE NOT THAT FAR REMOVED FROM
THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ON HOW
TO SPEND MONEY.
BUT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, STAY
TUNE.
THE NEXT CHAPTER ON THIS SECOND
AM... FEDS WANT A BILLION DOLLARS.
AND ONTARIO SAYS WE WANT IT BUT
NOT WITH THE STRINGS ATTACHED
THAT-- WE WANT FLEXIBILITY.
I WANT THE ARGUMENT FOR FLEXIBILITY?

Bev says SURE.
STEVE, IT'S AN ARGUMENT THAT
EVERY SINGLE PROVINCE IN THIS
COUNTRY HAS PUT FORWARD AND DID
PUT FORWARD AT THE RECENT
MINISTERS MEETING.
SO-- SO IT'S NOT AN ONTARIO
ISSUE.
THE REALITY IS THAT EVERY
SINGLE PROVINCE HAS DIFFERENT
PLANS FOR CHILD CARE.
SHOULD.
A CHILD IN SASKATCHEWAN DOESN'T
HAVE THE SAME NEEDS NECESSARILY
AS A CHILD IN TORONTO.
SO EVERY PROVINCE IS SAYING
THAT WE WANTED TO DO IT OUR WAY
MUCH THAT'S WHY YOU SEE QUEBEC
AT A CERTAIN NUMBER.
ONTARIO AND B.C. COME UNDER
QUEBEC.
ONTARIO ACTUALLY SUPPORTS
JUNIOR AND SENIOR KINDER
GARTEN.
WHICH VERY FEW OTHER PROVINCES DO.
WE NEED TO TAKE THAT INTO
CONSIDERATION WHEN WE THINK
ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
THE REALITY IS THAT, UM, IS
THAT THE-- EVERY SINGLE
PROVINCE HAS SAID WE WANT
FLEXIBILITY.
AND MUCH LIKE THE HEALTH CARE
FUNDING, I THINK IT'S UP TO THE
GOVERNMENT TO DO IT.
THAT'S TO GIVE US FLEXIBILITY.

Steve says RICHARD, WHY THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IF IT WILL
GIVE X NUMBER OF DOLLARS TO THE
PROVINCES, WHY YOU BELIEVE THE
PROVINCES OUGHT TO DO WITH THAT
MONEY.
WHAT THE FEDS SAY OR ELSE?

Richard says OBVIOUSLY THERE HAS-- THERE
HAS TO BE FLEXIBLE.
FIRST OF ALL, THE MONEY THAT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS IS
COLLECTED FROM THE CITIZENS OF
CANADA AND THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IS ACCOUNTABLE TO
THE CITIZENS OF CANADA HOW IT
SPENDS THAT MONEY F IT GIVES TO
THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO X
BILLION OR MILLION DOLLARS FOR
CHILD CARE, THE PROVINCE OF
ONEL SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO--
REQUIRED TO SPEND THAT ON
CERTAIN BASIC STANDARDS IN
CHILD CARE.
NOW, AND--

Ruth says THE LAST AMOUNT.

Richard says THAT'S RIGHT.
800 MILLION dollars.
ABSOLUTELY NONE OF IT.
THE CHILD SUPPLEMENT THAT EACH
PERSON ON THIS WELFARE SYSTEM,
HAS BEEN CLAWED BACK TO ITS ENTIRETY.
THEY SENT UP A 30 MILLION dollar
CHALLENGE FUND.
THEY WOULD CHALLENGE THE
PRIVATE SECTOR TO MATCH THE
PROVINCE GOVERNMENT COMMITMENT.
AND SPEND IT ON, ON CHILDREN.
AS SOON AS THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT PUTS THE MONEY IN,
THEY CLAWED 15 MILLION dollars BACK
FROM THE FEDS.
REPLACING THEIR OWN 15 MILLION dollars.
IT'S A GAME OF MUSICAL CHAIRS.

Bev says YES, I KNOW.

Richard says IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
AND THE MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR
ANYONE WHO CARES ABOUT CHILD
CARE, AIN'T GOING TO GET YOU
ANY ADDITIONAL SPACES.

Bev says LOTS OF NUMBERS OUT THERE.
I LOVE CHATTING NUMBERS.
I WORK IN THE MINISTER OF
FINANCE FOR A LONG TIME.
BUT AT THE EN OF THE DAY, WE'RE
NOT ACTUAL-- WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT KIDS AND THE PROGRAM THAT
ARE OUT THERE.
THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE OUT THERE
FOR YOUNG PARENTS.
CHILDREN ARE-- WHEN WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT CHILD SUPPORT
FOR, UM, FOR FOLKS ON WELFARE.
WE HAVE LEARNING AND EARNING
AND PARENTSING PROGRAM TO HELP
TEENS AND SINGLE PARENTS TO GET
BACK INTO THE WORK FORCE.

Ruth says ANY COMMUNITY STAND OUTSIDE
THE SCHOOL AND ASK THE PARENTS,
CAN YOU GET THE CHILD CARE YOU NEED?
AND FOR EVERY CHILD IN A
REGULATED, SUBSIDIZED CHILD
CARE SPACE, THERE ARE 12 ON THE
WAITING LIST.

Steve says LAST TO BEV.

Bev says THE BOTTOM LIONEL IS THAT
IT'S UP TO THE PARENT TO DECIDE
WHERE THEY WANT TO PUT THEIR KIDS.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS TO-- IT'S
UP TO THE PARENT TO DECIDE
WHERE THEY WANT TO PUT THEIR KIDS.

Steve says UP NEXT, GOVERNMENT
ADVERTISING.
YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK.
TAKE A LOOK.

An ad plays in which different people speak to the viewer as captions indicate their names and professions.

Donna, student, says WHAT'S THE PROVINCE DOING TO
GET MORE DOCTORS?

Taha, Assistant Restaurant Manager, says MORE NURSES?

Rose, registered practical nurse, says WE'RE ADDING THOUSANDS OF
NEW NURSING POSITIONS.

Donna, E.R. Co-ordinator, says AND THOUSANDS OF OTHER
HEALTH CARE WORKERS.

Rose says OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

Parminder, Pediatrician, says TRIPLEING THE NUMBER OF
FOREIGN PHYSICIANS IN THE ONTARIO.

Taha says more nurses.

Donna says MORE CARE.

Vivian, Nurse Practitioner, says I'M A NURSE PRACTITIONERS, AND WE'VE ADDED HUNDREDS MORE.

Parminder says INCREASING MED SCHOOL
ENROLLMENT...

Romy, resident Physician, says BY 30 percent.

Margaret, Physician from the Northern Ontario Medical School, says CREATING THE FIRST MED
SCHOOL IN ONTARIO IN OVER 30 YEARS.

Romy says I'M GOING TO BE A DOCTOR.

Donna says I'M GOING TO COME A DOCTOR.

Aaron, Radiology Residen, says TO LEARN MORE.

Rose says CALL OR VISIT OUR WEB SITE...

Vivian says AND SEE HOW WE'RE MAKING OUR
HEALTH DOLLARS WORK FOR YOU.

The ad ends.

Steve says THAT AD HAS BEEN THERE.
THE TORIES SAYS IT'S CONVEYING
INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT
WHAT PROGRAM ARE IN PLACE.
HOWEVER, CRITICS SAY IT'S AN
EXAMPLE OF A WASTE OF TAX
DOLLARS FOR AN ILL DEFINED MESSAGE.
I WANT TO GO TO THE FORMER
HEALTH MINISTER ON THIS FIRST.
WOULD YOU HAVE RUN AN AD LIKE THIS?

Ruth says NO.

STEVE says WHY NOT?

Ruth says BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IN A
LEAD UP-- LEAD UP TO THE
ELECTION, IT'S AN ETHICAL THING
TO DO.
I WOULD HAVE RUN AN AD THAT
WOULD HAVE GIVEN CONCRETE
INFORMATION, AS I DID.

Steve says IT IS.

Ruth says IT SIN.
IT'S CLAIMING ALL SORTS OF
THINGS.
I'M A NURSE PRACTITIONER AND
THERE'S HUNDREDS MORE.

Steve says NO PICTURE OF THE
HEALTH MINISTER IN THAT AD.

Ruth says THERE WASN'T WHEN I RAN ADS EITHER.
THIS IS ABOUT SAYING WHAT THEY
CLAIM THEY ARE DOING AS OPPOSED
TO ANY JUSTIFICATION.
ASK ANY NURSE PRACTICING
TIGSER, THEY'RE COMING OUT OF
SCHOOL AND CAN'T FIND JOBS.
ASK ANY FOREIGN MEDICAL
GRADUATE.

Steve says IT'S AT FAULT?

Ruth says THE CLEAN AIR ALLIANCE JUST
LAST WEEK GOT A JUDGMENT FOR
THE-- FROM THE FEDERAL
COMMISSIONER OF COMPETITION
THAT THE ONTARIO POWER
GENERATION ADS WERE FALSE AND
COULD NO LONGER BE RUN AND I
DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS CLAIMED
AGAINST THIS ONE YET.
BUT THEY SHOULD.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK OF IT?

Richard says A COUPLE OF THINGS.
IF I DON'T SAY THIS, YOU'LL
POINT IT OUT TO ME, THAT EVERY
GOVERNMENT IN THE-- IN ONTARIO
IN THE PAST HAS RUN ADS THAT
HAVE COME CLOSE TO THE LINE OF
BEING, UM, ONE'S ENCOURAGEMENT
PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR THEM.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AD
AND THE AD THAT IS RUTH IS
TALKING ABOUT.
IT'S ONE THING TO TAKE
TAXPAYER'S MONEY AND SAY WE
HAVE A NEW PROGRAM CALLED 1-800
TELE-HEALTH AND A NURSE WILL
HELP YOU.
THAT AD IS AN ADVOCACY AD.
IT'S SAYING WE'RE DOING ALL OF
THESE GREAT THING.
EVERYTHING'S FINE IN ONTARIO.
JUST TRUST US, RIGHT?
I THINK THAT'S WRONG.
I THINK THAT'S WHY THE
PROVINCIAL RULES HAVE NOW
PROPOSED A-- A, SEVERAL TIMES,
A TABLE, TABLE A PIECE OF
LEGISLATION IN THE HOUSE WHICH
IN-- EACH TIME THEY'VE DONE
THAT, THE GOVERNMENT VOTED IT
DOWN.
THAT MAKES THOSE KIND OFED
ADVOCACY ADS IN ILLEGAL.
REASON THAT THEY DO THAT IS
THAT WE BELIEVE THE CITIZENS OF
ONTARIO PROBABLY DON'T WANT
THEIR HARD-EARNED MONEY USED TO
CONVINCE THEM TO VOTE FOR THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.

Steve says OKAY.
YOUR TAKE ON THIS AD?

Bev says HEALTH CARE IS THE NUMBER
ONE ISSUE IN THIS PROVINCE, IN
THIS COUNTRY, IN FACT.
ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT THE--
THAT PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THIS
PROVINCE HAVE SAID IS OF
CONCERN TO THEM IS HEALTH CARE
HUMAN RESOURCES.
IN FACT, I SIT ON A-- ON A
COMMITTEE AT U OF T ON NURSING
HUMAN RESOURCES.
IT'S A HUGE ISSUE FOR THE
PEOPLE OF THIS PROVINCE.
AND IT'S BEEN A BIG CAMPAIGN TO
TRY AND GET PEOPLE TO GET INTO
THE INDUSTRY.
GET INTO THE SECTOR.
GET INTO WORKING IN HEALTH CARE.
MAKE IT AN HONOURABLE
PROFESSION FOR PEOPLE AND MAKE
PEOPLE FEEL THAT--

Richard says THAT AD IS CONVINCING PEOPLE
TO GET INTO THE PROFESSION--

Bev says PARTLY.
PARTLY.

Bev says IT'S--
IT'S ACTUALLY AIMED AT, UM,
SHOWING PEOPLE THAT-- THAT, IN
FACT, THERE ARE THINGS BEING
DONE TO ADDRESS THEIR CONCERN
ON HEALTH CARE HUMAN RESOURCES.
AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY
IMPORTANT MESSAGE.
EVERY TIME WE PICK UP THE
NEWSPAPER OR READING SOMETHING
THAT-- THAT MAKES GREAT NEWS ON
HEALTH CARE ISSUE, THE BIGGEST,
ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES FOR
PEOPLE, AND THEY TOLD US THIS
WAS HEALTH CARE HUMAN
RESOURCES.
SO--

Steve says DO YOU THINK IT'S A
PARTISAN AD?

Bev says I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD
PUBLIC SERVICE AD.

Steve says DO YOU THINK IN A
LEAD UP TO A ELECTION CAMPAIGN,
IT CROSSES THE LINE OF WHAT'S
APPROPRIATE ETHICAL ADVERTISING?

Bev says NO.

Richard says I THINK IT DOES.
IT'S THE BEST POSSIBLE ANSWER
THAT YOU COULD GIVE TO AN AD
THAT I THINK ANY OBJECTIVE
VIEWER WOULD SAY THAT IT'S
CERTAINLY MAKING A LOT OF CLAIM
ABOUT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS
DOING AND NOT DOING.
AND ABOUT THEIR RECORD.
BUT THE BEST ROB IS THAT-- BEST
POSSIBLE ANSWER IS THAT IT'S
NOT AIMED AT YOU OR ME, BUT
WOULD BE NURSE PRACTITIONERS
AND DOCTORS.

Steve says THERE'S A CERTAIN
FEEL-ED GOOD SENSE THAT
SURROUNDS THE AD.
THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE YOU
FEEL GOOD ABOUT HEALTH CARE.

Richard says A TAD BETTER THAN TO THE AD.
MORE HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONS.
BUT IT'S NOT AIMED AT THAT.
BUT MORE VOTES.

Steve says RUTH, MANY MINISTERS
AND MINISTRIES, I KNOW, WE ALL
KNOW, WE TALK TO THEM, SAY THEY
HAVE TO RUN ADS LIKE THIS
BECAUSE THE BLOODY MEDIA IS SO
VICIOUS IN ITS COVERAGE OF
PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS THAT-- AND
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FOOD FIGHT.
IT'S NEVER ABOUT THE ISSUES.
THIS PROGRAM BEING A-- BEING A,
YOU KNOW, UNIQUE OASIS IN THAT SWAMP.

Bev says ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says THANK YOU.
THAT-- THAT MINISTERS AND
MINISTRIES HAVE TO PUT ADS ON
LIKE THIS OTHERWISE THE PUBLIC
WON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR
GOVERNMENT IS DOING FOR THEM.
TO WHICH YOU SAY WHAT?

Ruth says BACK TO ADS THAT PROVIDE, IN
FACT, CONCRETE INFORMATION.
AND SOME FACTS.
IF THE AD SAID IF YOU'RE A
NURSE PRACTICAL TIGER DIAGNOSIS
PRACTITIONERS LOOKING FOR A JOB
IN ONTARIO, WE HAVE THIS NUMBER
AND PHONE THIS.
IF YOU'RE A NURSE PRACTITIONER,
YOU CAN'T FIND A JOB.
THERE IS NO MONEY TO HIRE NURSE
PRACTITIONERS AND YOU HAVE-- IF
YOU WANT TO REVERSE THE
IMPRESSION LEFT BY THE MEDIA,
ISN'T IT ALL STRANGE THAT IT'S
ALL HAPPENING TWO MONTHS BEFORE
THE COMING ELECTION AS OPPOSED
TO FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO WHEN
THAT HAPPENED?

Richard says ISN'T THAT THE MOST
IMPORTANT TIME TO REVERSE ANY
IMPRESSIONS, JUST BEFORE A
CAMPAIGN I WOULD THINK.

Steve says HAVE YOU SEEN FOCUS
GROUP TESTING ON THIS AD?

Bev says NO, I HAVE NOT.

Steve says DO YOU KNOW HOW IT
TESTED?

Bev says NO, I DON'T.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK
PEOPLE SAID WHEN THEY SAW THAT
AD?

Bev says I WOULD SUGGEST THEY'RE
HAPPY TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING
OUT THERE.
HEALTH CARE HUMAN RESOURCES IS
ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES--

Ruth says THAT'S RIGHT.
HUMAN-- HEALTH HUMAN RESOURCE
ARE A BIG ISSUE.
I DISAGREE THAT THIS IS
DIRECTED-- DIRECTED AT HEALTH
HUMAN RESOURCES PEOPLE.
IT'S DIRECTED AT THE PUBLIC THAT
CAN'T FIND A DOCTOR AND
UNEMPLOYED DOCTORS OUT THERE.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT ISN'T
REAL ON THE FRONT LINES OF
HEALTH CARE.
REGISTERED NURSES ASSOCIATION
HAS SAID THAT ABOUT THESE ADS.
IT WAS THIS GOVERNMENT THAT
LAID OFF THOUSANDS OF NURSES IN
THE EARLY YEARS.
NOW WE'RE SCRAMBLING TO TRY AND
GET THEM BACK.

Bev says THIS AD IS A PERFECT--

Steve says BEV FIRST AND THEN RICHARD.

Bev says WE HAVE MORE NURSES NOW THAN
WE DID THEN.
AND THEY HAVE A VIEW OF WHAT
A NURSE IS, AS EVERY GROUP LIKE
THAT DOES.

Ruth says IT'S NOT HARD TO DEFINE.

Bev says BUT THEY'RE NOT TALKING
ABOUT-- THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT
VARIOUS AREAS OF NURSING.
THAT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY.

Steve says LAST POINT TO RICHARD.

Richard says IT'S NO QUESTION IT'S AED
GOOD AD AND A FEEL-GOOD AD AND
IF YOU WERE A CITIZEN, YOU
WOULD HAVE TWO REACTS.
ONE, THOSE ARE GREAT THINGS
THAT ARE HAPPENING.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THAT
YOUR OWN MONEY IS BEING USED TO
PERSUADE YOU TO VOTE IN THE
GOVERNMENT IN THIS REGARD, I
THINK YOU WOULD BE ANGRY ABOUT IT.

Steve says THERE WAS A PIECE IN
THE NATIONAL POST EARLIER THIS WEEK.
UNCLE THE BY-LINE OF FORMER
ONTARIO PREMIER MIKE HARRIS.
NOT NECESSARILY NEWS IN ITSELF.
EXCEPT THAT THE COLUMN WAS ALL
ABOUT HARRIS' BELIEF THAT THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS GONE
AWOL IN THE CORNER DEBATE OVER
IRAQ.
MIKE HARRIS ON INTERNATIONAL--
IN THE CURRENT DEBATE OVER
IRAQ.
MIKE HARRIS ON INTERNATIONAL
AFFAIRS.
WHY DID MIKE HARRIS WRITE ABOUT
INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS?

Bev says WHY DID MAC NEVER SIT IN
THIS SEAT?
I KEEP LOOKING OVER HERE, STEVE.
YOU KNOW WHAT?
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
FORMER PREMIERS AND POLICY
MAKERS ACTUALLY STAY ENGAGED IN
PUBLIC POLICY DEBATES.
SO-- SO I THINK THAT IT'S
TREMENDOUS.
OF COURSE, UM, LIKE ANYBODY,
WHO HELD A POSITION LIKE MIKE
HAD, HE HAS A GREAT DEAL OF,
UM, OF INFORMATION ON THIS
TOPIC AND MANY OTHER
INTERNATIONAL TOPICS.
I MEAN, TRADE IS HUGE FOR
ONTARIO.
WE DEALT WITH A THE LOT OF
INTERNATIONAL ISSUES.
IT'S CRITICAL THAT PEOPLE-- AND
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE
PREMIERS ACTUALLY GET INVOLVED
AND DISCUSS THIS WHOLE ISSUE.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR EVERYBODY.

Ruth says I THINK LOTS OF FORMER
PREMIERS HAVE BEEN HEARD FROM
ONCE THEY STOP BEING PREMIERS.
I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN THIS
ARTICLE.
IT'S EXTREMELY WELL WRITTEN.
GOOD SYNTAX.
GOOD GRAMMAR.
I SAT ACROSS THE HOUSE FROM
MIKE HARRIS FOR MANY YEARS AND
OFTEN HEARD HIM SPEAK.
HE'S REALLY LEARNED A LOT ABOUT
FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND A LOT ABOUT
PUTTING TOGETHER PIECES SINCE
HE LEFT.

Steve says MRS. GRIER IS BEING
FA C TICOUS HERE.
MIKE HARRIS SAID WHAT HE FELT
ABOUT IT AND SOMEBODY ELSE
WROTE IT UP.
ANY TIME A FORMER POLITICIAN'S
BY-LINE IS ON A PIECE, CHAN ARE
SOMEBODY WROTE IT FOR THEM TO
REFLECT THEIR VIEWS.

Ruth says TELL THAT TO BOB RAE.

Steve says BOB IS THE EXCEPTION.

Ruth says TOO MANY OF THEM WRITE THEIR
OWN, ACTUALLY.

Steve says BOB RAE WAS A NOTABLE
EXCEPTION.
SERIOUS QUESTION, THOUGH, HOW
DIFFICULT IS IT FOR A
POLITICIAN, WHOSE BRAND IS
ESSENTIALLY TAX CUTS, DEFICIT
REDUCTION, WORK FARE, TOUGH ON
UNION, I MEAN, ASSOCIATED WITH
THE WHOLE RANGE OF, YOU KNOW,
FAIRLY NARROWLY DEFINED
PROVINCIAL ISSUES.
HOW TOUGH IS IT FOR HIM TO BE
TAKEN SERIOUSLY ON SOMETHING
THAT IS OUTSIDE THAT WE
TRADITIONALLY THINK OF AS A
MIKE HARRIS ISSUE?

Richard says PROBABLY PRETTY TOUGH.
ALTHOUGH THIS IS-- THIS IS, YOU
KNOW, THERE'S-- I THINK
SOMETHING THAT BEV SAID IS
RIGHT.
THIS IS PROBABLY NOT A BAD
START, UM, AT GETTING HIM A
PLATFORM.
ON INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS.
HE HARBOURS THE-- THE
BACKGROUND OF YOUR QUESTION IS
THAT HE STILL HARBOURS
AMBITIONS IN FEDERAL POLITICS.
AND I THINK THIS IS ONE WAY FOR
HIM TO KIND OF LAUNCH THAT
NOTION.
MY OWN VIEW-- MY OWN VIEW IS,
UM, I MEAN, WHO CARES IF HE
RUNS FEDERALLY?
I HAVE SAID BEFORE ON THIS
PROGRAM, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE HIM.
THERE'S A REASON THAT-- IF HIS
NUMBERS IN ONTARIO WERE
ANYWHERE NEAR WHAT THEY WOULD
BE NATIONALLY, UM, BRING HIM
ON.
NUMBER TWO, THERE'S A REASON
WHY BEV AND YOU HAVE ALWAYS
ASKED ME, WHY DO I KEEP ON
REFERRING TO THE EVES
GOVERNMENT AS THE HARRIS-EVE HE
IS GOVERNMENT.
ANY TIME WE CAN GET E-- HARRIS
FRONT AND CENTRE IS A GOOD
THING.

Steve says IS PART OF THE REASON
HARRIS WANT THIS ARTICLE OUT
THERE TO ESTABLISH A NEW SET OF
ISSUES IN WHICH HIS NAME WILL BE
ASSOCIATE TODAY CONSIDER A
CAREER IN NATIONAL POLITICS?
I THINK THAT'S OBVIOUS.
DO YOU WANT TO SIGN ON TO THAT?

Bev says YOU KNOW WHAT?
I HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO THE
FORMER PREMIER OR HIS ADVISORS
ON THIS TOPIC.
TO BE HONEST, I CAN'T COMMENTS
ON THAT.
BUT I WILL REITERATE THAT I
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
PEOPLE WHO HELD POSITIONS LIKE
THE ONE HE HAD STAY ENGAGED IN
PUBLIC POLICY DIALOGUE AND
PRESENT ISSUES TO COMMENT ON.

Steve says TO YOU FOR THIS WEEK.
THAT'S “4TH READING” FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2003, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

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