Transcript: Health and Hydro | Jan 26, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON “4TH READING”

In a clip, Ernie Eves says HEALTH CARE IS THE NUMBER
ONE PRIORITY.

Steve says RESPONDING TO HEALTH
CARE.
CANADA'S PREMIERS TRY AND HEAL
OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

Steve and a guest sit around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a brown coat over a gray shirt.

He says GOOD AFTERNOON,
EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
HAPPY TO HAVE YOU ABOARD FOR
ANOTHER EDITION OF “4TH
READING.”
AFTER MORE THAN TWO YEARS OF
NEGOTIATIONS, CANADA'S 13
PROVINCES AND TERRITORIES HAVE
AGREED ON A HEALTH CARE ACCORD.
FIRST MINISTERS SAY IF THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PONIES UP
5.4 BILLION dollars THIS YEAR AND
ANOTHER 1.7 BILLION dollars NEXT YEAR,
THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM
CANADIANS CHERISH MORE THAN ANY
OTHER SOCIAL PROGRAM WILL BE
STRENGTHENED AND STEAPED.
THE PREMIER OF ONTARIO CALLS
THAT “A VERY REASONABLE REQUEST.”

A clip plays in which Ernie Eves and other Premiers sit for a press conference, with several flags hanging in the background.
A caption reads “Ernie Eves. Premier of Ontario.”
Eves is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with gelled blond hair.

He says WE'RE BEING VERY REASONABLE.
I MEAN, I THINK THE PROVINCES--
TAKE THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO AS
AN EXAMPLE, WE'RE SPENDING 47 percent
OF OUR BUDGET ON HEALTH CARE.
YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE
CANADIAN GOVERNMENT WOULD ALSO
MAKE IT ITS NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR AN
INCREASE IN THEIR SPENDING IS
LESS THAN HALF OF THEIR
DECLARED SURPLUS OR
ACKNOWLEDGED SURPLUS THIS YEAR.

The caption changes to "Gary Doer. Premier of Manitoba."
Doer is in his early fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair.

He says THE FEDERAL DOCUMENT,
DOCUMENTS OUR MENU WITHOUT PRICES.
AND WE HAVE A LONG-TERM
SUSTAINABLE PLAN, FUNDED WITHIN
THE EXISTING SURPLUS OF THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
AND SUPPORTED BY OTHER EMINENT
CANADIANS OVER THE NEXT NUMBER
OF YEARS SO WE CAN END THE
DISAGREEMENTS AND GET ON WITH
DELIVERING THE HEALTH CARE
SERVICES IN A TIMELY WAY TO ALL
OF OUR CITIZENS.

The caption changes to "Gordon Campbell. Premier of British Columbia."
Campbell is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short white hair and glasses.

He says WE'RE DELIVERING LITERALLY
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF HEALTH
SERVICES RIGHT NOW.
AND TODAY, NOT NEXT YEAR, NOT
THE YEAR AFTER THAT, TODAY,
WE'RE UNDER SUBSTANTIAL
FINANCIAL PRESSURE.
AND WE CAN DELIVER THE SERVICES
WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE NEED.
SO WE'RE SAYING CLEARLY TO THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WE'RE IN
THIS TOGETHER.
THERE'S ONLY ONE TAX BEARER
MUCH IT'S NOT FEDERAL MONEY,
IT'S NOT PROVINCIAL MONEY.
IT'S YOUR MONEY.
AND LET'S TRY AND FOCUS THOSE
RESOURCES ON OUR PRIORITIES.
WHICH ARE HEALTH CARE.

Eves says ASK CANADIANS WHETHER THEY
THINK THAT GIVING BACK, GIVING
THEM BACK ABOUT 45 percent OF THE
SURPLUS THAT THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN AWAY FROM
THEM IN TAXATION AND APPLYING
IT TO HEALTH CARE IS REASONABLE
OR NOT?
I THINK THEY WOULD THINK THAT'S
EXTREMELY REASONABLE.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Steve says WHEN THOSE IN ONTARIO
ARE ASKED TO LIST THEIR MAIN
CONCERNS, HEALTH CARE, ALWAYS,
ALWAYS, ALWAYS TOPS THE POLLS.
WITH AN ELECTION EXPECTED
WITHIN MONTH, IT'S NO TOP-- NO
DOUBT IT'S TOP OF MINUTE FOR
ERNIE EVES AND HIS GOVERNMENT
AS WELL.
HERE TODAY IS TONE MY CLE M
ENT.
HEALTH MINISTER.
MY WIFE IS YOUR SENIOR POLICY
ADVISOR.
WE HAVE THAT ON RECORD FOR
EVERYONE TO KNOW.
BACK TO BASICS.
THE GOVERNMENT HAS HEARD THIS--
YOU SAY THEY ONLY FUNNELED 14 percent
OF HEALTH CARE EXPENDITURES.
YOU WANT THEM UP TO 18 percent.
TELL THE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS
PROGRAM TONIGHT WHAT DIFFERENCE
IT WILL MAKE IN THEIR LIVES IF
THAT HAPPENS?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Tony Clement. Ontario Minister of Health."
Tony is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He’s wearing glasses, a gray suit, white shirt, and gray tie.

He says I THINK WE'RE ALL TRYING TO
GET TO A MORE ACCESSIBLE AND
SUSTAINABLE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
WHEN WE HAD OUR PUBLIC DIALOGUE
WITH THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO IN
HEALTH CARE, UM, ABOUT A YEAR
AND-A-HALF AGO, IT WAS VERY
CLEAR THAT THEY WANTED MORE
ACCESS TO DIAGNOSTICS, MORE
ACCESS TO DOCTORS AND NURSES.
CLOSER TO HOME.
UM, THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE
THAT EMERGENCY SERVICES WERE
THERE WHEN THEY NEEDED IT.
ALSO TO EMPHASIZE KEEPING
PEOPLE WELL IN THE FIRST PLACE.
THOSE WERE THE PRIORITIES OF
ONTARIO.
IT'S CLEAR THAT HEALTH CARE IS
THE NUMBER ONE SPENDING
PRIORITY OF ONTARIO.
IF YOU LOOK AT THIS YEAR'S
ONTARIO BUDGE, 47 percent OF PROGRAM
SPENDING GOES INTO HEALTH CARE.
FAR AND AWAY THE BIGGEST
KHUFRPG FOR ANYTHING.
SO THE ISSUE IS, HOW DO WE GET
TO A SUSTAINABLE HEALTH CARE
SYSTEM IN NOT ONLY NOW, BUT IN
THE YEARS AHEAD AS OUR
POPULATION NOT ONLY GROWS IN,
TERMS OF RAW NUMBERS, BUT ALSO AGES.

Steve says OKAY.
BUT MIKE HARRIS USED TO SAY
THERE'S ONLY ONE TAXPAYER.
LET'S SAY I'M THE TAXPAYER.
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF
I'M PAYING THROUGH HEALTH CARE
THROUGH MY LEFT PROVINCIAL
POCKET OR THE RIGHT FEDERAL
POCKET.
IT'S ALL TAX MONEY.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

Tony says THAT'S RIGHT.
BUT I THINK THE POINT THAT
WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE HERE IS
THOSE IN ONTARIO AND CANADIANS
ARE SAYING THAT IT HAS TO BE A
HIGHER SPENDING PRIORITY FOR
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, JUST AS
IT IS A HIGH SPENDING PRIORITY
IN THE PROVINCIAL AND
TERRITORIAL GOVERNMENTS.
FACT OF THE MATTER IS WHEN YOU
DEAL WITH THE HEADLINES THAT
SAY 8 BILLION dollar SURPLUS IN
FEDERAL COFERS, SURELY THERE'S
GOT TO BE SOME WAY WE CAN GET
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO LIVE
UP TO THE KINDS OF SPENDING AND
THE KIND OF PRIORITY IT WAS
EVEN JUST TEN YEARS AGO.
ONE STATISTIC, TO BRING IT
CLOSER TO HOME FOR PEOPLE, UM,
IN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS,
SPENDING PER ONTARIAN IN HEALTH
CARE BY THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT
HAS GONE UP BY 513 dollar.
IN THE SAME EIGHT-YEAR PERIOD,
SPENDING BY THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT PER CAPITA IN
ONTARIO HAS GONE DOWN 41 dollar.
AND I DON'T THINK THOSE IN
ONTARIO WANT TO SEE A LOWER
PRIORITY IN HEALTH CARE FROM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BUT A
HIGHER PRIORITY.

Steve says ERNIE EVES, YOUR
BOSS, THE PRIME ERSAYS THAT
HEALTH CARE IS THE TOP PRIORITY
FOR ALL PROVINCE AND
TERRITORIAL GOVERNMENTS BUT NOT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
HE'S ESSENTIALLY SAYING SHAME
ON THEM S THAT A CHEAP SHOT?

Tony says WE'RE AT THE STAGE NOW WHERE
WE'RE JUST GOING INTO A
FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL-TERRITORIAL
MEETING.
I DON'T THINK OUR PREMIER
BELIEVES OR ANYONE ELSE
BELIEVES IT'S A TIME FOR ONE
UPMANSHIP OR SCORING SHOTS OR
SCORING POINTS.

Steve says IS THAT CHEAP SHOT?

Tony says NO, I THINK THAT'S AN
INDICATION, AN OBSERVATION OF
WHAT THE REALITY HAS BEEN.
SO I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE
SAYING IS THAT WE WANT TO WORK
WITH OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
WE WANT TO BE PARTNERS WITH
THEM.
BUT THEY HAVE TO COME TO THE
TABLE IN A SERIOUS WAY.

Steve says IN THE SAME WAY,
COULD THEY NOT SAY TO YOU,
WE'RE IN A POST 9-11 WORLD,
NATIONAL DEFENCE IS OUR TOP
PRIORITY.
NOT THE TOP PRIORITY OF ANY OF
THE PROVINCES.
SHAME ON YOU.
THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT
HEALTH CARE IS YOUR
RESPONSIBILITY.
SO SHOULDN'T BE IT YOUR TOP
PRIORITY?
WHY SHOULD IT BE THEIRS?

Tony says THE REASON YOU MENTIONED.
IT'S THE SAME TAX PAIR.
IT'S VERY CLEAR FROM WHAT
CITIZENS TOLD US IS THEY EXPECT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO BE
PART OF SOLUTION.
WE NEED THEM TO FUN INNOVATION,
BECAUSE WE WANT TO GET TO A
BETTER HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN
THE FUTURE AS WELL.
THEY HAVE TO BE THE PARTNER.
ARE WE SAYING NO TO DEFENCE?
I DON'T THINK WE'RE SAYING
THAT.
BUT YOU HAVE TO SHOW TOM GOOD
FAITH HERE.
YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT IN TERMS
OF THE FEDERAL SURPLUS THAT
EXISTS RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS
REALLY TAXPAYER' DOLLARS , A
PRIORITY HAS TO BE HEALTH CARE.

Steve says THERE'S WHAT?
11 BILLION dollars IN THE SURPLUS?

Tony says THEY SAY 8 BILLION dollars PLUS THE
3 BILLION dollars THEY PUT IN EVERY YEAR.

Steve says IF THERE'S A 1
BILLION dollar SURPLUS, YOU WOULD
ARGUE THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS
TAKING IN FAR TOO MUCH MONEY
AND THE FIRST OBLIGATION OUGHT
TO BE TO CAUGHT TAXES, RIGHT?

Tony says I WOULD SAY CERTAINLY
CHOICES HAVE MADE.
WE HAVE TO BE TAX COMPETITIVE.
I AGREE WITH YOU.
ANOTHER WAY TO BECOME
COMPETITIVE AND ANOTHER WAY
THAT WE ENSURE THAT-- THAT OUR,
OUR GOVERNMENT AND-- AND INDEED
OUR SOCIETY, UM, IS READY FOR
THE FUTURE IS TO HAVE A HEALTH
CARE SYSTEM THAT WORKS.
SO-- SO IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
TAX COMPETITIVENESS, OBVIOUSLY
THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT TAXES.
BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
SPENDING PRIORITIES, CLEARLY
HEALTH CARE HAS TO BE JOB ONE.

Steve says HERE'S ONE THING-- I
REMEMBER TALKING TO MR. HARRIS
ABOUT THIS, AND HE DIDN'T
UNDERSTAND THE ANSWER TO IT AND
I'M GOING TO TRY IT WITH YOU.
THEY'VE WON THREE CONSECUTIVE
MAJORITY GOVERNMENTS.
THEY MEANING THE FEDERAL
LIBERAL PARTY.
DESPITE THE NOT FUNDING HEALTH
CARE AT THE LEVELS THAT YOU AND
OTHER PROVINCIAL
REPRESENTATIVES WANT THEM TO.
WHY SHOULD THEY CHANGE?

Tony says WELL, I THINK THAT THIS IS
NOT JUST A QUESTION OF RAW
POLITICS.

Steve says THAT'S WHAT RALPH
KLEIN SAID IT WAS YESTERDAY.

Tony says BUT I THINK HE'S SAYING
THAT-- HE'S SAYING THAT IF YOU
LOOK AT IT, UM, THEY ARE PLAYING
POLITICAL GAMES.
BUT SHOULD IT BE THAT WAY?
I THINK THAT THE ANSWER FROM
CANADIANS AND THOSE IN ONTARIO
IS NO.
THAT-- THAT IF YOU WANT TO PLAY
A GAME OF ONE UPMANSHIP, YOU
KNOW WHAT?
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ALWAYS
HAS THE LAST WORD BECAUSE IT IS
DOLLARS THAT THEY SPEND OR
DON'T SPEND ACCORDING TO THEIR
BUDGET PRIORITIES.
SO DO THEY HAVE THE POWER TO
SAY NO?
DO THEY HAVE THE POWER TO SAY
WE'LL DISREGARD WHAT WE'RE
SAYING?
YES, THEY DO AND GIVEN THE
CONTEXT OF FEDERAL POLITICS
THESE DAYS, THE VOICES THAT--
THAT WILL RISE UP IN PROTEST
WITHIN THE FEDERAL HOUSE OF
COMMONS ARE, UM, ARE CLEARLY,
UM, CLEARLY HAVING A DIFFICULT
TIME MAKING SOME HEADWAY.
HOPEFULLY THAT WILL CHANGE IN
THE FUTURE.
BUT THAT'S THE REALITY RIGHT
NOW.
SO THE ISSUE IS, NOT WHETHER
THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH, UM, NOT
SPENDING ON HEALTH CARE.
I SUPPOSE FROM A POLITICAL
POINT OF VIEW, THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT CANADIANS WILL DECIDE.
THE ISSUE, THOUGH, IS WHERE DO
WE GO FROM HERE TO MAKE SURE
THAT HEALTH CARE IS THERE FOR
US?
NOT ONLY NOW, BUT WHEN-- AS WE
COME UP TO THE BABY BOOMERS'
RETIRING AND CONSUMING LARGE
QUANTITIES OF HEALTH CARE.
WE HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN FOR THE
FUTURE AS WELL.
SO THIS-- TO ME, THIS IS AN
ISSUE OF GOOD PUBLIC POLICY.
NOT JUST POLITICS.

Steve says NOT JUST THE RAW
POLITICS THAT RALPH KLEIN
TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY.

Tony says I THINK HE WAS TALKING ABOUT
THE REALITY.
BUT I'M SAYING WE HAVE AN
OCCASION NOW TO GO BEYOND THAT.
THAT'S WHAT CANADIANS EXPECT OF US.

Steve says LET'S TALK ABOUT
ACCOUNTABILITY.
YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT
ACCOUNTABILITY.
THE FEDS HAVE SUGGESTED THAT IF
YOU-- IF YOU WANT TO GET SOME
OF MONEY THAT YOU SUGGESTED
THAT YOU'RE ENTITLED TO, YOU
GOT TO DO SOME THINGS TO GET
IT.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE TO HIT
TARGET ON PRIMARY CARE REFORM.
50 percent OF DOLLARS HAVE TO BE
SIGNED UP.
IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?

Tony says WE'RE, WE'RE PERFECTLY
WILLING TO-- TO BE ACCOUNT ABLE
FOR THE DECISION.

Steve says TO WHO?

Tony says TO THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO.

Steve says NOT THE FEDS?

Tony says NOT THE FEDS.
I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE
INTERESTED IN-- IN
INSTITUTIONAL ACCOUNTABLE.
I SAID IT IN A COLOURFUL WAY.
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.
MY IDEA OF ACCOUNTABLE IS NOT
US REPORTING TO BUREAUCRAT X-14
IN OTTAWA.
I DON'T THINK THAT VANS THE
CAUSE OF MORE SUSTAINABLE AND
ACCEPTABLE THAN--

Steve says YOU CAN BE MORE
COLOURFUL THAN THAT.

Tony says I THOUGHT PERHAPS I WAS
MAKING A POINT.
THE POINT IS THAT WE CARE ABOUT
ACCOUNTABILITY TO THOSE IN
ONTARIO.
THAT'S WHY WE PUBLISHED THE
HOSPITAL REPORT CARDS RECENTLY.
THAT'S WHY IN TERMS OF OUR
DIALOGUE WITH THOSE IN ONTARIO,
WITH TODAY HEAR WHAT THE
PRIORITIES OF THOSE IN ONTARIO WERE.

Steve says YOU'RE SAYING GIVE THE
US THE MONEY NO STRINGS
ATTACHED?

Tony says WE ALREADY HAVE AN
ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISM.
IN SEPTEMBER OF 20 O 0, THE
LAST DEAL ON HEALTH CARE
BETWEEN THE PROVINCES AND--
2000, THE LAST DEAL ON HEALTH
CARE BETWEEN THE PROVINCES AND
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WE SETUP AN
ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISM.
AND IT TOOK A WHILE FOR THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO GET ON
BOARD.
FINALLY GOT THAT.
FINALLY PUBLISHED THE FIRST
RESULTS IN SEPTEMBER OF 2002.
WE HAVE AN ACCOUNTABILITY
MECHANISM.
LET'S MAKE SURE THAT WORKS TO
THE BEST OF OUR ABILITIES
RATHER THAN CREATING ANOTHER
LAYER OF BUREAUCRACY THAT IN MY
VIEW IS ABOUT INSTITUTIONAL
ACCOUNTABILITY, RATHER THAN
ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PEOPLE.

Steve says EXCEPT THAT YOUR
CRITICS ON THE LEFT SAY THAT
WHEN THEY HEAR YOU SAY WE WANT
THE MOUNT AND DON'T ATTACH TOO
MANY STRINGS TO IT, THEY HEAR,
ENCROACHING PRIVATIZATION.
WATCH WHAT SHELLEY MARTEL HAD
TO SAY.

In a clip, Shelley speaks to the press.
A caption reads “Shelley Martel. Ontario NDP Health Critic.”
Shelley is in her forties, with short wavy chestnut hair.

She says IT MEANS DIVERTING MORE
MONEY THAT SHOULD BE GOING INTO
THE PATIENT CARE INTO THE
PROFITS OF FOR-PROFIT
CORPORATIONS.
SINCE THIS GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN
ELECTED, WE'VE SEEN A
SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN
FOR-PROFIT HEALTH CARE SERVICE
DELIVERY.
AND I THINK THE PREMIER WOULD
LIKE SOME MORE FLEXIBLE.
BECAUSE IT WOULD BE HIS
INTENTION TO DIVERT NEW FEDERAL
MONEY TO MORE OF THE SAME.

The clip ends.

Steve says SHE RIGHT ABOUT THAT?

Tony says NO, I THINK THAT WHAT SHE'S
DOING IS PUTTING AN IDEA
LOGICAL OVER LAY ON WHAT IS A
PRACTICAL ISSUE.
PRACTICAL ISSUE IS HOW CAN YOU
DELIVER BETTER, MORE ACCESSIBLE
HEALTH CARE TO PEOPLE, AS CLOSE
TO HOME AS POSSIBLE?
AND THAT'S THE AGENDA.
THE AGENDA IS HOW DO YOU, HOW
DO YOU MAKE SURE THAT-- THAT
WHATEVER DOLLARS WE SPEND ON
HEALTH CARE IS SPENT
EFFICIENTLY, OF COURSE.
BUT ALSO ACCESSIBLY.
SO FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW, IT'S
MORE ABOUT MORE ACCESSION BITLS
TO SUSTAINABLE HEALTH CARE
SERVICES.
WE'VE ALWAYS HAD-- MORE
ACCESSIBILITY TO SUSTAINABLE
HEALTH CARE SERVICES.
WE'VE ALWAYS HAD SERVICE AND AS
LONG AS THEY CAN GET ACCESS TO
THE ISS WITH THE OHIP CARD AND
NOT THE VISA CARD, THAT'S WHAT
PEOPLE EXPECT.
MORE ACCESS CTL TO
PUBLICLY-FUNDED HEALTH CARE
SERVICES.

Steve says DO YOU BELIEVE IT'S E
L E C TORA L LY SPEAKING,
BECAUSE IT'S SILLY SEASON AND
EVERYTHING GETS FIT TERD
THROUGH THE VISION OF AN UP
COMING ELECTION, IS IT BETTER
TO HAVE SUSTAINABLE—HUMOUR ME.
THE NOTION OF YOU RUNNING IN
THE NEXT ELECTION AND SAYING,
THOSE BUGARS IN OTTAWA WOULDN'T
GIVE US A GOOD DEAL AND THE
MONEY WE NEED AND HOW CAN YOU
TRUST MCGUINTY, BECAUSE HE'S A
LIBERAL JUST LIKE THEM.
THERE'S A CERTAIN APPEAL IN
THAT, ISN'T THERE?

Tony says THAT'S THE NOT THE WAY TO
GO, I THINK IF ASKED BY THE
CAMPAIGN TEAM.
I THINK THAT THOSE IN CANADA
AND IN ONTARIO ARE FED UP WITH
THE BICKERING THAT'S GONE ON ON
THE HEALTH CARE FILE BETWEEN THE
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENTS.
SO...

Steve says THEY ARE.
BUT IT COULD BE GOOD POLITICS
TO TRY IT.

Tony says THE BETTER POLITICS IS TO
SAY WE HAVE A PLAN FOR HEALTH CARE.
A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT
THINKS THAT THIS-- THAT THIS
PLAN CAN WORK FOR ONTARIO AS
WELL AND WE'RE WORKING IN THIS,
A NON-PARTISAN WAY TO GET
BETTER HEALTH CARE TO PEOPLE
AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO
GO INTO THE ELECTION WITH.

Steve says TONY CLEMENT,
MINISTER OF HEALTH OF ONTARIO,
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
NOW THE THAT THE HYDRO ONE SALE
IS COMPLETELY DEAD, WHERE WILL
THE GOVERNMENT GET THE MONEY TO
BALANCE THE BUDGETS?
WATCH.

A clip plays in which Ernie Eves gives a statement.

He says A BUDGET IS A HUGE DOCUMENT,
OBVIOUSLY.
WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT BUDGETS
IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD OF 65
BILLION dollars A YEAR, THERE ISN'T ANY
ONE LINE OR TWO THAT MAKES OR
BREAKS A BUDGET OR ANY ONE
TRANSACTION.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE ASSURES
ME THAT WE WILL BE I BELIEVE
ABLE TO BALANCE THE BOOKS NOT
ONLY FOR THIS FISCAL YEAR.
BUT OUR OBJECTIVE FOR NEXT
FISCAL YEAR AS WELL SO MANY
WE'RE ON TRACK TO PLAN THE
BOOKS OF THE PROVINCE FOR THE
FISCAL YEAR OF 2002-2003 AND
WE'LL COULD IT-- DO IT DEPEND
IN 2003-2004.

Now Howard Hampton speaks.
A caption reads “Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader.”
Howard is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair.

He says TWO AND-A-HALF WEEKS AGO
PLRX EVES AND HIS GOVERNMENT
WERE OUT THERE TRYING TO SELL
OFF HALF OF HYDRO ONE FOR 2.75
BILLION dollars.
AND-- AND SAYING AT THE TIME
THAT THEY NEEDED THAT MONEY TO
BALANCE THEIR BUDGETS.
UM, SO NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY
COME FORWARD AND SAY, OH, WE
FOUND 2.75 BILLION dollars SOMEWHERE ELSE.
IN TWO WEEKS.
COME ON.

The clip ends.

Steve says JUST OVER A YEAR AGO,
SOME BACKGROUND, HYDRO ONE
REPRESENTED THE LARGEST P
PRIVATIZATION IN ONTARIO
HISTORY.
THEY HOPED TO FETCH MORE THAN
5 BILLION dollars BY PUTTING IT UP FOR SALE.
THIS WEEK, EVES SAID THE SALE
IS OFF.
HERE WITH THEIR ANALYSIS OF
THAT, PAUL O TOOL.
AN MPP.
ANOTHER MPP.
AN NDP MEMBER FOR BEACHES EAST
YORK.
JOHN, FIRST QUESTION TO YOU.
WHY DID ERNIE EVES TAKE HYDRO
ONE OFF THE TABLE?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "John O’Toole, MPP. PC. Durham."
John is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short white hair and glasses. He’s wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and striped tie.

He says HE PUT CONSUMERS FIRST.
THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF
VOLATILITY IN THE MARKETPLACE
AS WE SAW YESTERDAY WITH THE
HIGHEST CONSUMPTION.
CONSUMERS WERE CLEARLY WORRIED
BACK IN NOVEMBER.
SINCE THE MARKET OPENED UP IN
MAY.
SO I'M SATISFIED THAT-- THAT
THE PREMIER'S PUT THE CONSUMER
FIRST.
UM, AND I'M ALSO SATISFIED THAT
THE DECISION THAT HE-- THAT HE
MADE AND COMMITTED TO IS
BALANCING THE BUDGET.
SO-- SO MR. PHILLIPS WILL
DISAGREE I'M SURE ON EVERY PART
OF THAT.
BUT, UM, BUT AT THE END OF THE
DAY, THE CONSUMER IS WHAT-- IS
WHAT IS FIRST ON THE PREMIER'S
MIND.

Steve says I THOUGHT THE
CONSUMER NEEDED THE DYNA M IC
CORPORATE DISPLIN TO--

John says THE PREMIER HAD A NINE-POINT
PLAN WHICH INCLUDED PUTTING
BUSINESS DISCIPLINE THE IN THE
STRUCTURE.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THEY
REDUCED THE MANAGEMENT COST BY
21 percent.
GOING FORWARD, TO BRING SOME OF
THAT PRIVATE SECTOR DISCIPLINE
IS-- IS IMPORTANT TO PUT, UM,
TO PUT THE COMPETITIVE, UM,
ASPECTS OF THE MARKETPLACE IN--
IN WHAT WAS AND STILL IS A
MONOPOLY.
AND THAT'S WHAT WAS MISSING AND
THAT'S WHY IT WAS OUT OF
CONTROL.

Steve says YOU LIKE THE DECISION?

The caption changes to "Gerry Phillips. Liberal Finance Critic."
Gerry is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He’s wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and golden tie.

He says YEAH, IT WAS CLEARLY-- WE
SAID FROM THE START IT WAS A
BIG MISTAKE TO SELL HYDRO ONE.
IT'S A NATURAL MONOPOLY OF
SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE
STAYED IN THE PUBLIC HANDS.
WE ARGUED FROM THE START THEY
SHOULD NEVER SELL IT SO MANY
I'M VERY HAPPY WITH THE
DECISION.
THERE'S NO DOUBT WHY HE REACHED
THE DECISION.
HE'S SO MUDDIED THE WATERS THAT
ANY INVESTOR WOULD BE FOOLISH
TO BEING BUYING HYDRO ONE FROM
HIM AT THIS STAGE SO HE WAS
FORCED TO MAKE THE DECISION
BECAUSE HE MUDDIED THE WATERS.
ENDED UP AT THE RIGHT DECISION.
WOULD HAVE BEEN A HUGE MISTAKE
TO SELL OFF 49 percent OF HYDRO ONE.
THIS IS A TERRIFIC ASSET.
CONTRIBUTES TO THE PROVINCIAL
FINANCES.
AND AS I SAY IT, WOULD HAVE
BEEN A BIG MISTAKE SO MANY HE
BACKED INTO IT.
UM, THROUGH HIS OWN, FRANKLY,
MISMANAGEMENT.
BUT HE ENDED UP AT THE RIGHT
DECISION.

Steve says DO YOU WANT TO ACCUSE
THE GOVERNMENT OF FLIP-FLOPPING
ON THIS ONE?

The caption changes to "Michael Prue, MPP. NDP. Beaches-East York."
Michael is in his fifties, with short gray hair and a moustache. He’s wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and blue tie.

He says I DON'T THINK THEY FLIP
FLOPPED ANYMORE THAN THE
LIBERALS.
TO BE QUITE FRANK ABOUT THIS.
DALTON MCGUINTY HIMSELF ON THE
DAY THIS WAS ANOUNED SAID IT
WAS A GOOD IDEA.
THEY WERE OUT THERE FUND
RAISING--

Steve says THE DAY THE
PRIVATIZATION AWAS-- A-- WAS
ANOUNED AND HE SAID IT WAS A
GOOD IDEA.
THE NDP--

Michael says THE NDP FOUGHT IT TOOTH AND
NAIL.
EVERY KAY,-- DAY, THERE'S BEEN
AT LEAST ONE QUESTION ASKED ON
THIS.
QUITE FRANKLY, WE'RE NOT
SURPRISED.
THIS WAS A DUMB IDEA FROM THE
BEGINNING.

John says I'M NOT SURPRISED MYSELF.
I AGREE THAT MICHAEL'S RIGHT IN
FAIRNESS.
THEY'VE BEEN CONSISTENT.
EVERYONE CAN SUGGEST THAT THE
PREMIER'S BEEN INCONSISTENT.
HOWEVER, I WILL SAY THIS.
HE'S BEEN CONSISTENT IN FAVOUR
OF THE CONSUMER.
AND ULTIMATELY, THESE ARE THE
PEOPLE WHOSE TAX MONEY WE'RE
ALL TALKING ABOUT.

Steve says BUT A YEAR AGO YOU
WERE SAYING THAT MICHAEL PREW
AND HIS NDP PARTY WERE
CONSISTENTLY WRONG AND NOW
YOU'RE SAYING THEY WERE
CONSISTENTLY--

John says RIGHT FROM THE MCDONALD
COMMISSION REPORT WHEN THEY
LOOKED AT THE 38 BILLION dollars OF
ACCUMULATED DEBT THAT EACH TAX
PAIR IN ONTARIO IS ULTIMATELY
LIABLE FOR MADE THE DECISION TO
LOOK AT THE GENERATION AND THE
TRAN MISSION AND THE
DISTRIBUTION PART.
I BELIEVE THAT THE NATURAL
MONOPOLY IS THE TRANTS MISSION
PART.
I BELIEVE THAT RIGHT FROM THE
BEGINNING, I MIGHT SAY, AND I
DID WRITE THE PREMIER.
I DIDN'T AGREE WITH THE
DIVESTMENT.
I ENCOURAGED THEM NOT TO SELL
CONTROLLING INTEREST.
THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.

Gerry says BUT ERNIE SAID, LISTEN, THIS
IS A GOOD IDEA.
WE NEED THE PRIVATE SECTOR
DISCIPLINE.
ALL OF THOSE THING AND IT WAS A
HUGE MISTAKE.
AND HE FINALLY, WITH A RED
FACE, HAD TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT WAS
A HUGE MISTAKE.
UM, AND-- AND, UM, AND-- AND AS
I SAY, WE'VE ENDED UP WITH
FINALLY THE RIGHT POSITION ON
IT.

Steve says YOU GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR THAT?

Gerry says WELL, UM, CREDIT ONLY TO
THIS EXTENT, STEVE, THAT HE WAS
FORCED TO MAKE THE RIGHT
DECISION.
BECAUSE--

Steve says I'M JUST CURIOUS
BECAUSE--

Michael says HOW DID HE BALANCE THE BUDGET?

Steve says WE'LL GET TO THAT IN
A SECOND.
BUT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HOW
POLITICIANS MAKE DECISIONS.
YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY STUBBORNLY
STICK TO A POSITION THAT IS
INDEFENSIBLE, THEY'RE, YOU
KNOW, IT'S EITHER SHOWING GREAT
LEADERSHIP OR ACCUSED OF BEING
STUBBORN AND NOT LISTENING TO
THE PUBLIC.
HERE'S A GUY WHO LISTENED TO
THE PUBLIC, CHANGED HIS MIND,
RUN THE RISK OF LOOKING LIKE A
FLIP-FLOPER ON IT.
AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU GIVE
HIM CREDIT FOR LISTENING OR--

Gerry says SHOULD HAVE MADE THE
DECISION SIX MONTHS AGO, STEVE.
IT WAS CLEAR THEN THAT-- THAT,
IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROVINCE'S
BOOKS, OKAY?
UM, ONTARIO HYDRO ONE,
GENERATES ABOUT 400 MILLION dollars A
YEAR IN PROFIT.
TO THE PROVINCIAL BOOKS.
IT-- IT'S A SIGNIFICANT ASSET
TO THE PROVINCIAL.
AND SIGNIFICANT REVENUE
GENERATOR.
SO HE-- THE PROPER DECISION
COULD HAVE BEEN MADE SIX MONTHS
AGO WITHOUT PUTTING, UM, THE
TAXPAYERS THROUGH A PRETTY BIG
SPEND.
BECAUSE THEY'LL HAVE TO PAY FOR
ALL THE LEGAL BILLS AND ALL OF
THAT THAT WENT INTO--

Steve says THERE'S A BIGGER
EXPENSE, MICHAEL.
LET'S TAKE THIS UP WITH YOU.
WE WERE TOLD ONE OF THE REASONS
THIS THING NEEDED TO BE SOLD
BECAUSE IT NEEDED 8 BILLION dollars IN
UP GRADES.
AND WHO DO YOU WANT TO HAVE PAY
FOR IT?
SOMEONE WHO PRIVATELY OWNS IT
OR THE TAX PAYERS?
WHO'S ON THE HOOK FOR THE UP
GRADES NOW?

Michael says ULTIMATELY THIS IS A PUBLIC ASSET.
AND IT NEEDS TO BE PUBLICLY
MANAGED AND PUBLICLY OWNED.
AND SO, I GUESS THE TAXPAYER.
AND I GUESS THE REALITY IS THAT
RIGHT IN-- IN THE BILL THAT
EVERYONE PAYS EVERY MONTH,
THERE'S A SUM OF MONEY TO PAY
DOWN THE DENT.
AND-- AND PERHAPS THAT SHOULD
BE SPEEDED UP.
BUT IT IS OUR POSITION THAT
HYDRO SHOULD BE SOLD AT COST.
COST IS NOT NECESSARILY 4.3
CENT.
COULD BE 5 CENTS OR 5.3 CENTS.
IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THAT
NEIGHBOURHOOD.
SHOULD BE SOLD FOR COST.

Steve says IT MAY NEED TO GO UP
A LITTLE.

Michael says I WON'T TELL PEOPLE IT
DOESN'T NEED TO GO UP A LITTLE.
BECAUSE IT'S ARTIFICIALLY LOW
FOR YEARS AND EVEN MIKE HARRIS
FROZE THAT KNOWING IT WASN'T--

John says YOU--

Michael says WE FROZE IT.
WE WERE IN A DEPRESSION AND WE
WERE TRYING TO SAVE INDUSTRY.
BUT IT NEEDS TO BE AT COST AND
WE CAN NO LONGER LIVE IN A
WORLD WHERE SOMETHING IS
SUBSIDIZED.

Steve says I WANT TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING THE
RIFIKT OF MAKING NEWS HERE.
IS THE NDP IN FAVOUR OF TAKING
OFF THE FREEZE AT 4.3 CENTS PER
KILOWATT HOUR AND RAISING IT?
IF SO, AT WHAT POINT WOULD YOU
LIKE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.

Michael says WITH IT-- IT NEEDS TO BE
LOOK AT CONSTANTLY.
IT NEEDS TO BE SEEN HOW MUCH IT
IS COSTING.
IT'S A FOOL'S GAME TO SUBSIDIZE
THE TAXPAYERS.
CHARGE THEM 4.3 CENTS AND THEN
GO OUT AND SUBSIDY THEM.
THAT'S WHY WE VOTED-- SUBSIDIZE
THEM.
THAT'S WHY WE VOTED AGAINST
THAT.
PEOPLE THAT USE THE COMMODITY
NEED TO PAY IT.
BUT NOT WHERE SOMEBODY GAUJS
YOU AND MAKES A PROFIT FROM IT.

Steve says WHERE IS THE 8
BILLION dollars SHOWING NOW?

John says THE-- IN THE ACCUMULATED AND
NET DEBT.
THE 8 BILLION dollars OF INVESTMENT
IS ALREADY SHOWING AND MR.
PHILLIPS WILL MAKE THAT POINT
WITH RESPECT THE TO THE
ACCUMULATED AND THE NET, AND
THE FULL DEBT OF 110 BILLION dollars.
AND THAT INVESTMENT IS
REQUIRED.
STEVE, IN-- WHETHER IT COMES
OUT OF RATE OR COMES OUT OF
TAXES, GENERAL REVENUE FROM
SALES TAX OR PERSONAL INCOME
TAX, THE POINT IS THAT WE'VE
MADE THE COMMITMENT ON-- AFTER
A DECADE OF NEGLECT, THAT
INFRASTRUCTURE DIDN'T ERODE IN
THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS.
EVERY R EVERYONE KNOWS-- ALL OF
THOSE HIGH-PAID EXECUTIVES AND
THEIR BOARD DID NOT LOOK AFTER
THE ASSET.
DONALD MCDONALD'S SAID IT, OUR
PREMIER ASSAYED IT.
WE MADE THE COMMITMENT IN
INVESTMENT.
BUT IN FAIRNESS TO MICHAEL
PREW, I BELIEVE THAT FULL-COST
PRICING IS THE END GAME HERE.
WHETHER IT'S US OR THE
LIBERALS.
IT'S MAKING SURE IT'S IN THE
RATE.
YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE SOME TOOLS
TO THE CONSUMER.
ALLOW THEM TO HAVE
ENERGY-EFFICIENT APPLIANCES.
WE'RE DOING THAT.
ALLOW THEM TO HAVE TIME OF RATE
MERITING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO
GET OFF THE RATE HYATT PEAK
TIMES.
THOSE TOOLS ARE NOT IN PLACE.
MECHANISM ARE NOT IN PLACE.
THAT'S THE DIRECTION.
ULTIMATELY, I THINK IT WILL
TAKE THE SIX YEARS THAT WE DID
FREEZE THE RATES TO PUT ALL OF
THOSE TOOLS IN PLACE SO THE AT
THAT THE CONSUMER COULD HAVE
THE RIGHT ALINES AND RIGHT TIME
OF RATE TOOLS.

Steve says LET'S TALK BALANCED
BUDGETS HERE.
LAST YEAR, THE CONSERVATIVES
PROMISED TO BUDGET THE--
BALANCE THE BUDGET FOR THIS
FISCAL YEAR AND SAID THAT 2.5
BILLION dollars OR SO FROM THE SALE OF
49 percent OF HYDRO ONE WOULD HELP TO
BALANCE THE BOOK.
OKAY, SO THE SALE'S OFF AND NOW
THEY HAVE TO FIND 2.5 BILLION
dollars SOMEWHERE ELSE.
WE HEARD MR. EVES SAY THAT IN A
65 BILLION dollar BUDGE, THAT'S NOT
HARD TO DO.
YOU SAY WHAT?
CAN THEY DO IT?

Gerry says THEY'LL SHOW A BALANCED
BUDGET THIS YEAR OR NEXT YEAR.
POLITICALLY, THERE'S NO
ALTERNATIVE BUT TO DO THAT.
HOW THEY WILL DO IT... FIRSTLY,
THEY'VE BROKEN THE TAXPAYER
PROTECTION ACT.
THEY POSTPONED FOR ONE YEAR,
FOR 12 MONTH 1.5 BILLION dollars WORTH
OF TAX CUTS.
I APPLAUD THAT.
I THINK IT-- I THINK THAT IT
WOULD HAVE WITHIN BEEN A
MISTAKE TO PROCEED WITH THE TAX
CUTS.
IN FACT, I SAID THAT-- THAT
THEY SHOULD DELAY IT.
I DIDN'T THEY THINK WOULD.
BECAUSE THEY HAD TO BREAK
SOMETHING--

Steve says YOU HAVE TO EAT YOUR HAT.

Gerry says I EAT MY HAT.
BECAUSE I THOUGHT THEY BELIEVED
IN THE TAXPAYER PROTECTION ACT.
THEY SIGNED THAT DEAL, WITH
THE-- WITH THE TAXPAYERS, I
THOUGHT THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVED
IT.
AND I WAS PROVEN WRONG SO MANY
THEY DID IT THAT WAY.
SECONDLY , WHAT THEY SHOWED,
JUST A MONTH AGO, THEY PUT THIS
OUT.
IT WAS 2 BILLION dollars WORTH OF
ASSET SALES.
UM, THEY STILL WILL PROCEED IN
MY JUDGMENT WITH SOME ASSET
SALES.
PROBABLY ONTARIO NORTH LAND.
SOMETHING CALLED THE ONTARIO,
UM, THE ONTARIO SABIAN'S
OFFICE.
SOMETHING CALLED TERA NET.
I THINK THEY'LL PROCEED WITH
SOME ASSET SALES.

Steve says ONTARIO SAVINGS
OFFICE.
THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO SELL
THAT FOR YEARS.

Michael says IT'S CLOSE.

Gerry says THE 407 WAS THE WORTH DEAL
IN THE HISTORY OF THE
PRIVATIZATION IN THE USERS.
AND IT WILL BE TWO OR THREE
ASSETS.
THEN THEY'LL EMPTY THE DRAWERS.
PULL OUT ALL THE LITTLE
RESERVES AROUND.
THEY HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO
SHOW A BALANCED BUDGET THIS
YEAR.
NEXT YEAR A BALANCED BUDGET BY
BREAKING THE TAXPAYER
PROTECTION ACT.

Steve says I WANT TO COMMENT ON
THAT.
SOME WILL BE SKEPTICAL THAT YOU
CAN SAY THE BALANCE WILL BE--
THE BUDGET WILL BE BALANCED IF
WE SELL 2.59 BILLION dollars IN ASSETS.
NOW THAT ASSET IS GONE.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

John says PREMIER EVES SAID WE'LL HAVE
A BALANCED BUDGET THIS YEAR AND
NEXT YEAR AND IN MY VIEW,
FOREVER.
THAT'S THE DEAL.
THERE HAS TO BE SOME LEVEL OF
CONFIDENCE IN THE PEOPLE THAT
WE'RE NOT JUST GOING TO
CONTINUELY TAX AND SPEND.
NOW, THAT'S CAUTIONARY NOTE FOR
PEOPLE GOING INTO AN ELECTION.
HOW IS HE GOING TO ACHIEVE IT?
ACTUALLY, EVERY POINT IN THE
GDP, EVERY TIME YOU SEE THAT
LITTLE GDP NUMBER MEANS ABOUT
800 MILLION dollars IN REVENUE.
YOU HAVE-- 800 MILLION IN
REVENUE.
YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE ECONOMY
STRONG.
SOME ARE TAX MEASURES.
HE VOTED AGAINST EVERY TAX CUT.
BY TAX CUTS, YOU GENERATE
REVENUE.
WE BELIEVE THAT.

Steve says NOW A QUESTION FOR
YOU.
I HAVE A PARTICULARLY SMART ASS
QUESTION FOR YOU, JOHN SO, HANG
IN THERE WITH ME.

John says SURE.

Steve says A YEAR AGO, THE COULD
NOT SERVETIVE GOVERNMENT STOOD
FOR AN OPEN MARKET FOR
ELECTRICITY PRICING AND NOW YOU
FROZE AND REGULATED THE RATES A
YEAR AGO, OFF FOR SELLING HYDRO
ONE.
NOW YOU PULLED IT OFF THE TABLE
AS WELL WHAT IS CONSERVATIVE
ABOUT THIS CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT TODAY?

John says CERTAINLY I HAD SAY THAT
PREMIER EVES IS CERTAINLY
DIFFERENT.
I'M CONFIDENT THAT HE'S AT
LEAST LISTENING AND MAKE THE
RIGHT POLICY CHOICES TO PROTECT
CONSUMERS FIRST.
AND WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT IT
IS THAT WE'RE STILL THE
FUNDAMENTAL, STEVE, IS THE
PREMIER SAID IT REPEATEDLY IN
YOUR PRE-INTERVIEW HERE THAT--
THAT HE'S GOING TO BALANCE THE
BUDGE.
WE'RE GOING TO FIND IN-- IN,
YOU KNOW, IT'S WHEN YOU HAVE
TOO MUCH MONEY YOU WASTE IT.
I BELIEVE BY MAKING SURE WE
DON'T INCREASE TAXES AND THAT
WE MAKE DO WITH THE MONEY WE
HAVE, WE'RE NO DIFFERENT THAN
YOUR HOUSEHOLD.
WE'VE GOT TO WORK WITHIN THE
FINANCIAL REVENUE SIDE THAT WE
CAN.
AND WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A HEALTHY
ECONOMY TO MAKE ALL OF THIS
WORK.
HEALTH, EDUCATION TAKES GREAT
MONEY.
AND, UM, AND TO SOME EXTENT, I
BELIEVE THAT-- THAT THE
PRESSURE'S ON HEALTH CARE MAKE
THIS EVEN CLOUDIER ISSUE.
IT'S A 0 percent OF OUR TOGETHER
BUDGET.
THE FEDERAL-- 50 percent OF OUR TOTAL
BUDGE.
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS TO BE
THERE IN OUR SOLUTION.
PREMIER, CONSUMERS FIRST,
BALANCE THE BUDGE.
TAXPAYER WILL BE PROTECTED.

Steve says MY QUESTION FOR YOU
IS AS YOU LOOK AT THESE TWO
PARTIES, HOW WOULD YOU
DISTINGUISH THEIR VIEW ON THE
ENERGY ISSUE?

Michael says THEY'RE INDISTINGUISHABLE.
ALTHOUGH THE LIBERALS CAME TO
THE CORRECT CONCLUSION BEFORE
THE CONSERVATIVES.
THEY BOTH STARTED OFF IN THE
SAME PLACE.
THEY WANTED TO SELL OFF A VERY
KEY ASSETS.
THEY WERE WILLING TO, UM, YOU
KNOW, TO DO THAT.
AND, UM, OVER TIME, THEY BOTH
COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE
NEW DEMOCRATS WERE RIGHT.
AND, AND I APPLAUD THEM BOTH.
ALTHOUGH I WISH THEY WERE
FASTER OFF THE MARK.
AND BECAUSE WE CANNOT AFFORD,
AS AN INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY, WE
CANNOT AFFORD TO-- TO GIVE AWAY
WHAT IS ONE OF OUR KEY, UM, YOU
KNOW, CARDS THAT-- THAT WE HOLD
AS-- AND THAT IS THAT THE
ELECTRICITY HERE IS-- IS
CHEAPER.
POWER IS CHEAPER IN CANADA THAN
IT IS IN THE UNITED STATES.
THAT COMBINED WITH A WEAKENED
DOLLAR IS-- IS ONE OF THE CARDS
THAT WE PLAY.
THAT HELPS US TO HAVE-- HAVE THE
QUALITY OF LIFE WE HAVE HERE.

Gerry says WE'RE IN FAVOUR OF THE FREEZE.
THEY'RE I GATHER NOT IN FAVOUR
OF THE RATE FREEZE.

Steve says THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
AND THAT'S OUR
PROGRAM FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2003, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

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