Transcript: Should I Stay or Should I Go? | Jan 19, 2003

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON “4TH
READING,” CALLING IT QUITS.
KNOWING WHEN TO HOLD THEM...

In a clip a woman says I'M LOOKING FOR THE OPTIONS.

Steve says AND WHEN TO FOLD THEM, IN THE GAME OF POLITICS.

Steve and Ruth sit with two guests around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a green coat over a green shirt.

Ruth Grier is in her sixties, with short white hair.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
WELCOME TO “4TH READING.”
POLITICS CAN BE THE NOBLEIST OF
PROFESSIONS.
THE WAY TO DO THE GREATEST GOOD
FOR THE GREATEST NUMBER.
AND STRESSFUL JOBS AROUND.
IN THE PUBLIC EYE ALL THE TIME.
SOMEONE SOMEWHERE IS ALWAYS
UNHAPPY WITH YOU.
A NUMBER OF PROMINENT
POLITICIAN INSIDE QUEEN'S PARK
BACKED OUT.
CHRIS HODGSON.
AND SNOBOLEN.
NDP'S DAVE CHRISOPHERSON.
TWO OTHERS ARE SITTING ON THE
FENCE.

In a clip, the woman seen before talks to the press.
A caption reads “Helen Johns. Interim Minister of Municipal Affairs.”
Helen is in her sixties, with shoulder-length wavy blond hair.

She says ALL OF MY OPTIONS ARE OPEN
AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT.
I'M HAVING A LOOK AT IT.
I HAVE A YOUNG FAMILY.
ONE OF THEM IS WITH ME TODAY.
ALONG WITH AN OLDER FATHER.
FROM THAT STANDPOINT, I AM
LOOKING AT IT AND CONSIDERING
THE OPTIONS AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.

A male journalist says YOU'RE CONSIDERING NOT
RUNNING THEN.

Helen says I'M LOOKING FOR THE OPTIONS.

The caption changes to "Sean Conway, MPP. Liberal. Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke."
Sean is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair and glasses.

He says WE'RE ALL IN POLITICS.
ALL OF-- AND ALL OF US LIKE THE
JOB.
BUT MOST OF US TRY TO KEEP SOME
BALANCE IN MY LIFE AND IN MY
CASE, HAVING NEVER DONE
ANYTHING ELSE, I'M REALLY
EXCITED ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF
EXPLORING OTHER POSSIBILITIES.
SEEING WHAT'S OUT THERE.

The caption changes to "Dave Christopherson, MPP. NDP. Hamilton West."
Dave is in his fifties, with short brown hair and a moustache.

He says SO I LOOKED AT IT, AND I
SAID WHAT DO I WANT TO DO FOR
THE NEXT TEN YEARS?
I'VE GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO
EITHER CONTINUE WITH THIS
CAREER OR START UP A NEW ONE
AND I REFLECTED ON IT AND
TALKED TO FAMILY AND DECIDED
THAT IT WAS JUST THE RIGHT TIME
FOR ME.
I HOPE BY SUMMER I WILL
ANNOUNCE THAT I'M INDEED
STANDING FOR MAYOR FOR THE CITY
OF HAMILTON.

The caption changes to "Gary Carr, MPP. PC. Speaker of the House."
Gary is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair and glasses.

He says A LOT OF TIMES, IT IS THE
REAL PERSONAL CONSIDERATIONS
THAT ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN,
IN FACT, UM, THE POLITICS OF
IT.
OCCASIONALLY, SOMEBODY WILL
LEAVE BECAUSE THEY'RE UPSET AND
SO ON.
BUT USUALLY THERE'S A REGULAR,
UM, BACK BENCH MPP, IT HAS MORE
TO DO WITH YOUR PERSONAL LIFE
THAN NOT LOOKING AT WHAT WAS
HAPPENING.
I HAD MORE DISAGREEMENTS WITH
MIKE HARRIS THAN I DID ERNIE
EVES.
DOESN'T HAVE TO DO-- HAVE
ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE
POLICIES OF THE GOVERNMENT.

The clips end.

Back in the studio, Steve says A DIFFERENT LOOK ON
THIS WEEK'S “4TH READING.”
INVITED THREE PEOPLE THAT LEFT
POLITICS UNDER DIFFERENT
CIRCUMSTANCES.
ONE WHO LEFT IT SO MUCH THAT HE
CAME BACK.
THAT'S THE LIBERAL MPP FOR
VAUGHAN, KING, AURORA.
AND CHARLES HARNICK SERVED IN
MIKE HARRIS' GOVERNMENT.
HE DECLINE TO RUN AGAIN IN THE
'99 ELECTION.
OUR OWN RUTH GRIER, FORMER
MINISTER IN THE GOVERNMENT OF
BOB RAE.
RUTH'S CASE, SHE WANTED TO COME
BACK AND THE VOTERS HAD OTHER
IDEAS.
I THANK YOU THREE FOR COMING
TONIGHT TO HAVE THIS DIFFERENT
KIND OF DISCUSSION WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE ON “4TH READING.”

Greg says GREAT TO BE HERE.

Steve says HOLD THAT THOUGHT.
WE'LL SEE.
BECAUSE YOU ALL LEFT AT ONE
TIME OR ANOTHER, WE WANTED TO
GET YOU IN TO SEE WHAT SENSE OF
WHAT'S TRUE AND WHAT SIN.
BECAUSE WE MEDIA LIKE TO PICK
APART EXPLANATIONS WE HEAR AND
SUGGEST WHETHER IT'S TRUE OR
NOT.
LOOK AT ALL THE PEOPLE, CHARLES
IN, YOUR FORMER PARTY WHO ARE
NOT GOING AGAIN.
THEY ALL SAY IT HAS NOTHING TOO
GOOD WITH A LACK OF CONFIDENCE
IN THE LEADER OR THE PARTY OR
THE DIRECTION THE PARTY'S
TAKING.
SHOULD WE BELIEVE THEM?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Charles Harnick. Former PC Cabinet Minister."
Charles is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short blond hair and glasses. He’s wearing a gray suit, blue shirt, and striped black tie.

He says I, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
I THINK THAT PEOPLE, UM, PEOPLE
AND, AS YOU WENT THROUGH THE
LIST IN THE OPENING, EVERY ONE
OF THOSE PEOPLE HAS SERVED FOR
A LONG TIME.
UM, THEY BEGAN, UM, THINK EVERY
ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN IN-- IN
THE LEGISLATURE NOW FOR CLOSE
TO TEN YEARS.
SOME LONGER THAN THAT.
AND I THINK THAT-- THAT
EVENTUALLY YOU REACH A STAGE
WHERE YOU WANT TO DO OTHER
THINGS.

Steve says BUT WE ALWAYS HEAR
PEOPLE WHO ARE LEAVING SAY
WE'RE LEAVING FOR PRIVATE
REASONS AND PERSONAL REASONS
AND FAMILY REASONS AND FOR SOME
REASON, NOBODY WANTS TO BELIEVE
THAT.
SHOULD WE BELIEVE THAT?

Charles says I THINK POLITICS IS A VERY
UNIQUE CAREER.
BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE GO INTO
POLITICS WITHOUT EVER BELIEVING
THEY'RE GOING TO BE THERE
FOREVER.
AND, UM, AND I THINK MOST
PEOPLE, UM, COME TO SERVE THE
PUBLIC.
THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO DO
IT FOR A PERIOD OF THEIR
WORKING CAREER AND THEN WEPT TO
GO ON AND DO OTHER THINGS.
AND, UM, I DON'T THINK YOU
SHOULD READ ANYMORE INTO PEOPLE
LEAVING THAN, THAN JUST THAT.

Steve says HOW ABOUT IT, RUTH?
WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON IT?

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth says WELL, I'M NOT SURE THAT
PEOPLE THINK THEY'RE-- THINK
THAT THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO GET
ELECTED THINK THAT THERE'S A
POSSIBLY THAT THEY'LL BE THERE
FOR A LONG TIME.
I MEAN BE EVERYBODY'S OVERLY
OPTIMISTIC WHEN YOU GET INTO
POLITICS, REGARDLESS OF HOW
FAINT A HOPE IT IS.
YOU SEE YOURSELF AS INNING IN A
GOVERNMENT AND HAVING AN-- AS
BEING IN THE GOVERNMENT AND
HAVING AN IMPORTANT POSITION.
SO YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT THE
LEAVING.
BUT I I TAKE IT AT FACE VALUE.
SOMEONE LIKE CHRIS HODGSON.
THE TIME HAS COME TO LOOK AT A
DIFFERENT CAREER.
IT'S HARD TO LEAVE.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY
WHO'S EVER BEEN ELECTED TO--
THAT HASN'T FELT A-- FELT A
SENSE OF AWE WHEN YOU FIRST GO
INTO A LEGISLATURE--
LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER AND REALIZE
THAT PEOPLE HAVE VOTED FOR YOU
TO BE THEIR REPRESENTATIVE AND
GIVEN YOU THAT RESPONSIBILITY
SO THERE'S THAT WHOLE FEELING.
THERE'S THE SENSE OF--

Steve says HOLD.
I WANT TO INTERRUPT YOU THERE.
BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE OF THOSE
FORMER COLLEAGUES WHO SPEAKS TO
THAT ISSUE.
ABOUT THAT NOTION OF GETTING
THERE FOR THE FIRST TIME AND
SEEING WHAT IT'S LIKE AND HOW
EMOTIONAL IT IS.
HERE'S DAVE CHRISTOPHERSON.
ROLL IT.

A clip plays of Dave speaking.

He says THE FIRST TIME YOU TAKE THE SEAT.
BUT FOR A SENTIMENTAL MOMENT, I
KNOW WE HAD A BIT OF A
REHEARSAL.
ALL WENT INTO THE HOUSE AFTER
WE GOT ELECTED.
BECAUSE MOST OF US HAD NEVER
BEEN IN THE CHAMBER, OTHER THAN
THE VISITOR'S GALLERY AND WE
WOULD WALK THROUGH.
HOW THINGS WOULD WORK AND WHAT
THE AGENDA WAS.
AND I DIDN'T TAKE MY SEAT.
I DELIBERATELY STOOD THROUGH
THE WHOLE THING.
SOUNDS KIND OF CORNY.
BUT I WANT TODAY WAIT.
I WANT TODAY SAVIOUR THE
MOMENT, THE HONOUR THAT THE
PEOPLE OF HAMILTON HAD GIVEN
ME.
SO I WAITED UNTIL THAT FIRST
DAY OF THE NEW PARLIAMENT.
AND I CAN STILL REMEMBER, AND I
INTENDED TO, AND IT'S WITH ME,
TAKING MY SEAT IN THE-- AND THE
PRIDE THAT I FELT AND THE
OPPORTUNITY.

The clip ends.

Steve says YOU'RE GETTING A
LITTLE DEWEY EYED--

Ruth says I WAS THINKING FOR CHRIS,
WHEN THE LEGISLATURE WAS
RECONFIGURED A COUPLE OF YEARS
AGO, THEY SOLD OFF THE SEATS
AND ONE OF MY SONS BOUGHT A
SEAT.
AND GAVE IT TO ME.
AND-- AND I SIT IT IN EVERY DAY
AT MY DESK.
AND IT WAS ONE OF THE ONES I
SAT IN.
ONE OF THE HEAVY BLUE ONES.
I THINK HOW FUNNY.
STILL SITTING IN THE SEAT.

Steve says YOU WERE THERE.
AND YOU LEFT.
YOU HAD THE EMOTION OF LEAVING
AND THEN DECIDED TO COME BACK
AGAIN.
THEN GETTING IN AGAIN SO MANY
WHAT ARE ALL OF THESE GUYS
GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW?

The caption changes to "Greg Sorbara, MPP. Liberal. Vaughan-King-Aurora."
Greg is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short curly gray hair. He’s wearing a gray suit and green shirt.

He says WELL, I'M NOT SURE THAT I
ENTIRELY AGREE WITH CHARLIE OR
RUTH.
UM, WHEN A POLITICIAN ANNOUNCES
THAT HE'S LEAVING, HE-- HE OR
SHE GENERALLY GIVES HALF OF THE
REASONS.
UM, CHISTOPHERSON, FOR EXAMPLE,
VERY MUCH WANTS TO BE THE MAYOR
OF HAMILTON.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE CAN SUCCEED.
CHRIS HODGSON, YOU KNOW, THERE
ARE FAMILY ISSUES THERE.
BUT HE'S BEEN VIRTUALLY
EXCLUDED FROM THE INNER CIRCLE
OF THE PREMIER, WHOM HE HELPED
TO BECOME PREMIER.

Steve says HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

Greg says WELL, WE KNOW THAT.

Steve says HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Greg says BECAUSE YOU TALK TO PEOPLE
IN THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND
PEOPLE THAT KNOW THE PEOPLE
THAT ARE LEAVING.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD A CLIP
THERE OF SEAN CONWAY.
SEAN REALLY DOES WANT TO DO
SOMETHING ELSE WITH HIS LIFE.
HE REALLY NEVER HAS DONE
ANYTHING ELSE.
AND-- AND JOHN-- JOHN SNOBOLEN
HAS LOST ALL INTEREST IN BEING
IN THE GOVERNMENT.
DOESN'T LIKE ERNIE EVES AND
HE'S NOT CENTRAL FOR THE
EXPERIENCE IN THE GOVERNMENT.
SO THE TROUBLE IS YOU ONLY GET
HALF OF THE REASONS WHEN YOU
LISTEN TO THE OFFICIAL
EXPLANATION OR READ THE PRESS.

Steve says AND--

Charles says I HAVE TO ADD SOMETHING TO THAT.
BECAUSE, WHILE I'M NOT THERE,
UM, ANY LONGER, I DO KNOW THAT,
UM, THAT WE WERE A CLOSE-KNIT
GROUP OF PEOPLE.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT I-- I
ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE WITH GREG IN
HIS ASSESSMENT OF, UM, OF JOHN
SNOBOLEN AND ERNIE EVES AND
CHRIS HODGSON, BECAUSE I KNOW
THEM TO BE GOOD FRIENDS AND I
KNOW THEM TO BE PEOPLE WHO HAVE
ALWAYS HAD AS MUCH INPUT INTO
THE PROCESS AS THEY WANTED TO
HAVE.

Greg says I'M NOT SAYING-- I'M NOT
SAYING THAT THEY'RE NOT
DEDICATED.
BUT THE STORIES HAVE COME BACK
TO--

Charles says BUT THE CHARACTERIZATION.
I DISAGREE WITH THE
CHARACTERIZATION.

Greg says JOHN SNOBOLEN HAS LOST ALL
ENERGY FOR THE JOB.
SOME PEOPLE STAY IN THIS WORK
FOR A VERY LONG TIME BECAUSE
THEY'RE STILL DRIVEN BY IT.
HAZEL WILL BE REELECTED MAYOR
FOR MISSISSAUGA FOR SEVERAL
YEARS AFTER HER DEATH SIMPLY
BECAUSE--

Charles says ABOUT HAZEL, OF COURSE, BUT
ABOUT PEOPLE LOSING INTEREST
AND WANTING TO DO OTHER THINGS,
THAT'S WHAT I SAID IN MY
INITIAL COMMENT.
BUT I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO
READ ULTERIOR MOTIVES INTO
THAT.
PEOPLE JUST WANT TO MOVE ON.

Ruth says AS THEY DO IN ALL CAREERS.
AND I THINK THAT IT'S HEALTHY
FOR THE BODY POLITIC TO HAVE
SOME TURNOVER.
I MEAN, PEOPLE TO GET A LITTLE,
UM, A LITTLE BORED AND STALE
WHEN THEY'VE BEEN THERE AS LONG
AS SEAN CONWAY HAS, FOR
EXAMPLE.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHING
ABOUT SEAN, GREG.
BUT, YOU KNOW, BUT THERE'S TIME
TO MOVE TO A DIFFERENT KIND OF
LIFE AND THERE'S TIME FOR A
PARTY, UM, WHEN IT'S IMPORTANT,
PERHAPS, TO HAVE SOME TURNOVER
AND GET NEW PEOPLE.

Greg says I'LL USE MY OWN LIFE AS AN EXAMPLE.
IN 1995, WHEN I ANNOUNCED MY
RETIREMENT, I TOLL THE PEOPLE
HALF THE STORY.
THAT WAS THAT I SPENT TEN YEARS
THERE, THEY WERE VERY GOOD
YEARS.
BUT IT WAS TIME TO DO OTHER
THINGS WITH MY LIFE AND I
REALLY WANTED TO DO OTHER
THINGS.
THE PART OF THE STORY THAT I
DIDN'T TELL PUBLICLY IS THAT I
FELT NOT BE STANDING THAT LYNN
WAS A STRONG LEADER.
I BELIEVED THAT IN '94 THAT THE
TORIES WERE GOING TO WIN THE
'95 ELECTION AND I DIDN'T WANT
TO SPEND ANOTHER FIVE OR TEN
YEARS IN OPPOSITION.
AND-- AND I DIDN'T THINK WE
WERE GOING TO WIN.
AND-- AND THAT'S THE PART I
DIDN'T TELL.
AND EVERY SINGLE ANNOUNCEMENT
HAS A STORY THAT'S UNTOLD AND
IT'S THE REAL STORY.

Steve says LET'S PURSUE THAT
WITH YOU THEN F THAT'S THE
CASE, DO YOU SUSPECT THAT
CLEARY OR SEAN CONWAY OR LYNN
MCLEOD ARE NOT RUNNING AGAIN
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SURE DALTON
MCGUINTY CAN LEAD THEM TO VICTORY?

Greg says NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
BECAUSE EVERY POLITICS HAS
SPECIFIC REASONS.
JOHN CLEARY HAS SERVED A LONG
TIME.
HIS HEALTH IS, UM, IS-- IS NOT
AS STRONG AS IT'S BEEN.
HIS WIFE REALLY WANTS HIM TO BE
BACK HOME.
UM, AND-- AND STOP LEADING THAT
HECTIC LIFE.
SEAN'S CASE IS-- IS, UM, I
MEAN, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF
ABANDON AM.
I MEAN, HE REALLY HASN'T DONE
ANYTHING ELSE.

Steve says BEEN THERE 27 YEARS.

Greg says AT BEST, HE CAN LOOK FORWARD
TO BEING THE EDUCATION MINISTER
AGAIN.
HE'S DONE ALL OF THAT.

Steve says WHAT'S THE OTHER HALF
OF THE STORY THAT HE'S NOT
TELLING US RIGHT-- THAT THEY'RE
NOT TELLING US RIGHT NOW?

Greg says I THINK IT'S TEDIUM OF THE JOB.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OTHER
HALF OF LYNN'S STORY IS.
ALTHOUGH INI KNOW THAT SHE HAS
LOST A LITTLE BIT OF CONTACT OF
OF-- WITH THUNDER BAY.
SHE WANTS TO GET BACK THERE.
I DON'T KNOW.
I JUST KNOW THAT THERE ALWAYS
IS ANOTHER HALF OF THE STORY.
AND IT'S NOT THE SAME IN EVERY
CASE.
BUT THERE IS--

Ruth says IT'S DIFFERENT OF THE
TRAVELING.
FOR THE LONG-DISTANCE MEMBERS,
IT REALLY IS A VERY TOUGH LIFE.

Steve says LET'S GO TO A SECOND
TOPIC HERE.
THERE'S ANOTHER BIG STORY THIS
WEEK, RELATE TODAY SOMEBODY WHO
MANY THINK SHOULD BE LEAVING
POLITICS AND THAT'S THE B.C.
PREMIER GORDON CAMPBELL, UNA
LOT OF PRESSURE TO STEP DOWN
FOLLOWING A CHARGE OF DRUNK
DRIVING LAID WHILE HE WAS ON
VACATION IN MAUI.
WATCH...

A clip plays of Gordon Campbell giving a statement.
A caption reads “Gordon Campbell. Premier of British Columbia.”
Gordon is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short white hair and glasses.

He says THIS MISJUDGMENT HAPPENED ON
MY PERSONAL VACATION.
THIS IS UTTERLY MY
RESPONSIBILITY.
IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
DISCHARGE OF MY DUTIES WITH MY
STAFF, MY COLLEAGUES OR
OFFICIALS.
I KNOW THAT I HAVE TO REEARN
YOUR CONFIDENCE.
AND I AM TOTALLY COMMITTED TO
DOING THAT.

Now a man speaks in an office.
A caption reads “Brian O’Riordan. GP Murray and Associates.”
Brian is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with gelled brown hair and glasses.

He says WELL, HE'S MADE A GREAT, I
THINK, ATTEMPT TO SEPARATE THE
PUBLIC AND PRIVATE.
BUT I CAN'T THINK THAT THIS IS
GOING TO WORK IN THE LONG-TERM.
BECAUSE ALREADY WE'RE SEEING
THAT THE BRITISH COLUMBIA
GOVERNMENT HAS HAD TO PULL ADS
FEATURING THE PREMIER IN TERMS
OF THE CRIME PREVENTION
PROGRAM.
UM, THAT THE GOVERNMENT WAS
UNDERTAKING.
SO-- SO OBVIOUSLY HIS HANDLERS
ARE FEELING THAT HE WILL HAVE
NO CREDIBLE SPEAKING ON THIS ISSUE.

The caption changes to "John Matheson. Strategycorp."
John is in his late thirties, clean-shaven, with longish brown hair and glasses.

He says I MEAN, I THINK EVERYBODY
HAS, UM, REGARD FOR THE MAN AS
A MAN.
AND ALL THE DEMON THAT IS
PEOPLE HAVE TO FIGHT THROUGHOUT
THEIR LIFE.
UM, BUT WHEN ONE ENTERS INTO
PUBLIC OFFICE, ONE TRADES AWAY
THE RIGHT TO BE JUST TREATED AS
A PERSON, AS ONE OF THE GUYS.
UM, AND ONE ACCEPTS-- WHEN ONE
ACCEPTS A HIGHER MANTLE.

The caption changes to "Howard Hampton. Ontario NDP Leader."
Howard is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair.

He says IN PUBLIC LIFE, YOU ACCEPT
CRITICISM.
YOU RESPOND TO IT.
BUT IN POLITICS, WHEN PEOPLE
START LAUGHING AT YOU, THEN
THAT'S A FAR MORE SERIOUS THING
AND THIS THING THAT THEY'RE NOW
MARKETING, YOU KNOW, HIS MUG
SHOT.
A PICTURE OF HIM, YOU KNOW,
ARRESTED BY THE MAUI POLICE.
UM, THAT MEANS THAT PEOPLE ARE
MOCKING YOU AND MAKING FUN OF
YOU.
AND THAT I THINK IS REALLY SORT
OF THE-- THE LAST STRAW.

The clip ends.

Steve says OKAY.
WE ALL KNOW THAT GORDON CAMPBELL
SHOWED REALLY APPALLINGLY BAD
JUDGMENT.
WE KNOW WHAT HE DID WAS STUPID.
WE KNOW WHAT HE DID WAS
ILLEGAL.
WE ALSO KNOW THAT HE'S REALLY
LUCKY THAT HE DIDN'T HURT
ANYBODY.
THE QUESTION NOW BECOMES, WHAT
NEXT?
RUTH, WHAT DO YOU THINK HE HAS
TO DO NOW?

Ruth says WELL, LET ME GO BACK A BIT.
FIRST OF ALL, I AGREE ENTIRELY
WITH JOHN MATHESON IN THE CLIP.
I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SEPARATE
PRIVATE AND PUBLIC.
I THINK THAT'S A VERY CONTRIVED
KIND OF EXCUSE.
SECONDLY, I HAVE NO LOVE FOR
LIBERALS AND PARTICULARLY NOT
FOR THAT PARTICULAR PREMIER.
I THINK HE'S DONE SOME VERY,
UM, VERY THINGS THAT I FIND EVEN
WORSE THAN HIS DRUNK DRIVING AS
A PREMIER.
SO-- SO I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M
TRYING TO SET ASIDE MY PARTISAN
VIEW OF THIS.
AND-- AND I DON'T THINK HE
SHOULD RESIGN.
I THINK THAT BECAUSE HE'S A
MUST BE PERSON, AS HOWARD SAID,
HE WILL PAY A PRICE IN THE
PUBLIC FOR IT.
IT WILL BE THERE IN EVERYTHING
ELSE THAT HE DOES.
WHICH WILL HURT HIM
SIGNIFICANTLY.
BUT HE'S GOING TO PAY A PRICE,
UM, HE'S GOING TO BE CHARGED
AND-- AND THE RULE OF LAW WILL
CUT IN.
AND THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER
PROFESSIONS WHERE YOU DON'T
LOSE YOUR JOB IF YOU ARE
SUBJECT TO A CRIMINAL PENALTY.
AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S HARD
AND I KNOW THAT GORDON CAMPBELL
IF THE SHOE WAS ON OTHER FOOT,
WOULD BE SCREAMING FOR
SOMEBODY'S HEAD ON A PLATTER.
BUT I WORRY THAT WE'VE GOT INTO
THAT KIND OF POLITICS.
AND SO I THINK THAT FOR THE
BODY POLITIC, UM, LET THE
POLITICAL JUDGMENT OCCUR WHEN
NEXT HE GOES TO THE PEOPLE.

Steve says GREG?

Greg says WELL, I DISAGREE WITH YOU,
RUTH.
IT'S A VERY SAD STORY.
AND IT'S-- IT'S A TRAGEDY FOR
THE INDIVIDUAL.
I THINK THAT HE SHOULD RESIGN.
I THINK HE SHOULD RESIGN FOR
THREE REASONS.
FIRST OF ALL, WE NEED TO
REINSTILL THE NOTION OF MIN
MINISTERIAL AND PRIME
MINISTERIAL AND A PREMIERS
RESPONSIBILITY.
AND WE AS POLITICIANS HAVE TO
SET AN EXAMPLE.
IF WE DON'T MEASURE UP TO THAT,
WE SHOULD SUFFER THE
CONSEQUENCES.
THIRDLY, IT'S NOT AS IF THE
GOVERNMENT, THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT IN B.C. FALLS, YOU
KNOW, HE GOES.
AND THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE TO
TAKE HIS PLACE.

Steve says IN FACT, THERE'S 76
MEMBERS THERE.

Greg says THERE'S 76 AND THE
GOVERNMENT WILL CONTINUE.
AND THE THEMES WILL CONTINUE.
AND-- AND LIFE CAN GO ON.
WHEN-- WHAT GORDON CAMPBELL
NEEDS TO DO AND STEP DOWN.
IF HE WANTS TO STAY IN THE
BUSINESS, RESIGN THE SEAT.
GO BACK TO HIS RIGHT AND HAVE
THE PEOPLE OF HIS RIDING
DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT HE
SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE, UM, A
LEGISLATURE.
WHETHER OR NOT HE SHOULD BE
RE-ELECTED AND HIS PARTY COULD
EVEN, AFTER THAT, DECIDE THAT
HE SHOULD BE THE LEADER AGAIN.
BUT THERE HAVE TO BE
CONSEQUENCES.
THIS IS A TERRIBLE EXAMPLE.
ON A REALLY SERIOUS ISSUE.
FOR A PREMIER TO BE UPSETTING.
FINAL POINT IS THAT-- I'M SORRY
THIS IS THE FOURTH POINT.
IF IT WERE CAMPBELL AS PREMIER,
AND IT WERE HISTORIAN GENERAL
OR HIS MINISTER OF EDUCATION,
YOU KNOW THAT-- THAT THAT
PREMIER, TO PROTECT HIS PARTY,
WOULD DISMISS HIS MINISTER.

Steve says CHARLES?

Charles says I-- I AGREE WITH-- WITH JUST
ABOUT EVERYTHING GREG SAID.
I THINK THAT-- THAT HE'S THE
PREMIER OF BRITISH COLUMBIA.
HE'S THE PREMIER 24 HOURS A
DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK.
UM, 52 WEEKS A YEAR T DOESN'T
MATTER WHERE HE IS, UM, HE'S
THE PREMIER.
AND HE HAS TO HAVE THE
RESPONSIBILITY THAT GOES WITH
THAT.
AND I-- I CAN'T IMAGINE, UM,
ANY WORSE EXAMPLE, UM, IN TERMS
OF THE INITIATIVES THAT THE
GOVERNMENTS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY
HAVE-- HAVE, UM, HAVE HAD IN
ORDER TO PREVENT DRINKING AND
DRIVING THAN TO HAVE THE
PREMIER OF A PROVINCE GO OUT
AND BLOW ALMOST DOUBLE THE
LEGAL LIMIT, GET IN HIS CAR AND
DRIVE, UM, A SIGNIFICANT
DISTANCE, AND-- AND I THINK
THAT-- THAT DRIVING A FOOT IN
THAT CONDITION IS TOO MUCH.
AND-- AND I DON'T MEAN TO SOUND
SELF RIGHTEOUS, BUT QUITE
FRANKLY, UM, I HAVE NO SYMPATHY
FOR HIM.
I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THE
SITUATION HE GOT HIMSELF INTO.
AND THINK THAT HE SHOULD
RESIGN.
IT'S THE ONLY HONOURABLE THING
TO DO.
I THINK THAT THE EXAMPLE THAT
HE HAS SET AND THE EXCUSE THAT
HE HAS GIVEN PEOPLE, WHO ARE
LIKELY TO DRINK AND DRIVE, UM,
IS ENORMOUS.
AND-- AND HE HAS GOT TO SUFFER
THE CONSEQUENCE OF LOSING HIS
JOB.

Steve says YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A
COUPLE OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE
HAVE SAID HERE.
NUMBER ONE IS THAT HE WAS ON
VACATION.
HE HAD TURNOVER THE RATHER
THANS OF POWER TO HIS DEPUTY,--
REINS OF POWER OVER TO HIS DEPUTY.
AND HE'S A MAN-- THAT HE'S THE
SON OF A MAN WHO KILLED HIMSELF
BECAUSE OF ALCOHOL DEPRESSION.
WE SHOULD TAKE THOSE FACTORS IN
WHEN WE CONSIDER HIS FATE.
DO EITHER OF THOSE EXCUSE
VERSUS MERIT FOR YOU?

Charles says NONE.
FACT IS THAT HE'S THE PREMIER.
PREMIER HAS TO SUFFER THE
CONSEQUENCE OF-- AND-- AND I
THINK THAT THE EXAMPLE THAT--
THAT HE HAS SET, UM, IS-- IS
ATROCIOUS.

Ruth says WHEN WE LOOK BACK TO
HISTORY, RENE LEVEQUE, THE
PREMIER WHEN HE RAN OVER A GUY
WHEN HE WAS DRIVING.
JEAN MARCHAND.

Charles says I THINK THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF
THOSE SITUATIONS ARE VERY, VERY
DIFFERENT.
UM, AND-- AND--
THE TIME IS CERTAINLY
DIFFERENT AND THE ATTITUDE IS
DIFFERENT THE TIME IS
DIFFERENT.
THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE
FACTS.
IF, INDEED, UM, THE PREMIER OF
BRITISH COLUMBIA, UM, IS
CONVICTED OR PLEADS GUILTY TO
THIS, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT
HE'S GOING TO DO, BUT IT SEEM
TO ME THAT THIS IS-- THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT-- THAT, UM, THAT
JUST IS-- IS A--

Ruth says YOU DON'T THINK THAT IT'S
PUNISHMENT THAT HE HAS TO BEAR
THAT CROSS WHENEVER-- WITH
EVERYTHING HE DOES POLITICALLY?

Greg says RUTH, WE HAVE LOST ANY SENSE
THAT OUR POLITICIANS HAVE TO--
TO BE EXAMPLES AND NO--
MINISTERS NEVER RESIGN ANYMORE.
THE BRIT TISSUE PARLIAMENTARY
TWIGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN
THE SHOW, INCLUDES MINISTERIAL
RESPONSIBILITY.
THE NOTION THAT IT'S OKAY.
YOU CAN COME AND GO.

Ruth says MINISTERS DO RESIGN.
B.C. HASN'T HAD A PREMIER THAT
SERVE THE OUT THE TERM IN 20
YEARS.

Charles says IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO RESIGN
FOR THIS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO
RESIGN FOR?

Ruth says YOU HAVE TO RESIGN FOR
THAT-- FOR SOMETHING THAT
EFFECTS THE PUBLIC WHEEL AND A
MISALLOCATION OF FUND, UM, AND
SOMETHING THAT-- THAT, UM,
THAT-- THAT STOPS THE
CONFIDENCE OF YOUR CABINET.
AND AN ACCUSATION LIKE LYNN
CLARK'S PERHAPS,

Greg says THE NDP-- THE PREMIER IN
BRITISH COLUMBIA, I MEAN, IT
WAS A MICKEY MOUSE DEAL AND I
DON'T THINK-- I DON'T THINK
THAT--

Ruth says GORDON CAMPBELL-- WHY AM I
BEING CHARITABLE.
I DON'T KNOW.
I JUST FEEL IT.

Greg says I DON'T THINK GORDON
CAMPBELL SHOULD RESIGN BECAUSE
HE HOUNDED GLEN CLARK, BUT
BECAUSE OUR POLITICIANS NEED TO
SET VERY HIGH STANDARDS AND
THIS IS A HORRIBLE STANDARD.
AND ANY-- AND HE CAN ALWAYS
COME BACK AND IF HE DOESN'T
COME BACK, THE LIBERAL PARTY OF
BRITISH COLUMBIA WILL STILL BE
A GOOD, STRONG GOVERNMENT.

Steve says STAND BY.
STAND BY TO THE THREE OF YOU.
WE HAVE ANOTHER ITEM HERE FOR
YOUR VIEWING PROGRAM.
YOU MAIN BE AS INTERESTED IN
THIS ITEM AS MR. SORBARA IS.
BECAUSE IT'S ALL ABOUT THE
TIMING OF THE NEXT ELECTION.
WE'VE BEEN PROWLING THE BACK
ROOMS TO GET YOU THE LATEST ON
WHEN, WHOM, MOST IMPORTANT WHAT
THE PARTY WILL BE COMPLAINING
ON-- CAMPAIGNING ON LATER THIS YEAR.
THANK YOU TO YOU THREE FOR
COMING IN TODAY.
SIT BACK AND RELAX AND ENJOY
“BACK ROOM 411.”

(Music plays)
A clip captioned "Backroom 411" shows very fast clips of Ernie Eves and other politicians giving speeches and press conferences. Then, Susanna Kelley and Robert Fisher walk down a long hallway and past a glass-paned door.

The clip ends, and Susanna and Robert sit in the studio with Steve.

Steve says OKAY, WELCOME BACK
FOR 2003.
YOUR FIRST SHOT OUT THE DOOR.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TALK ABOUT
ANYTHING WITH ANYBODY AT
QUEEN'S PARK THESE DAYS WITHOUT
TALKING ABOUT WHEN THE NEXT
ELECTION WILL BE HELD SO MANY
LET'S LOOK AT SOME OF THE TEA
LEAVES AND CRITERIA THAT THE
PREMIER'S OFFICE AND OTHERS ARE
CONSIDERING AND THINK ABOUT
WHEN IT WILL BE.
SUSANNA, YOU GO FIRST.

A caption reads "Susanna Kelley. Queen's Park Bureau Chief."
Susanna is in her forties, with short wavy blond hair.

She says BEFORE CHRISTMAS, WE HEARD
SPRING, SPRING, SPRING.
BUT WHAT I'VE BEEN PICKING UP
IN THE LAST WEEK OR SO IS
THEY'RE SERIOUSLY LOOKING NOW
AT A FALL LECH.
NOT NECESSARILY THAT IT WILL BE.
BUT THEY JUST DON'T THINK
THEY'RE READY.
THINK THEY THINK THAT THE PARTY
APPARATUS, IE, YOU KNOW, THEY
CAN GET 103 CANDIDATES
NOMINATED BY APRIL 1ST, AND
THEY CAN GET THE MONEY IN THE
BANK.
BUT, UM, BUT THE TOURISM-- BUT
IT'S NOT READY.
THE POLICY ISN'T READY.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT IS.
THE POLICY COMMITTEE, AS I
UNDERSTAND IT, YOU KNOW, MADE
UP OF ALISTER CAMPBELL AND GUY
JORNEAU HAS BEEN WORKING FOR
QUITE SOMETIME NOW.
BUT APPARENTLY THEY'RE NOT
COMING UP WITH THE PLATFORM
THAT THEY NEED AT THIS POINT SO
THERE'S THOUGHT TO-- TO PUTTING
IT OFF UNTIL THE FALL.

The caption changes to "Robert Fisher. Provincial Affairs Specialist."
Robert is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair.

He says I DON'T THINK IT THAT A
SPRING ELECTION IS OUT OF THE
QUESTION AT THIS POINT.
I AGREE WITH SUSANNA THAT I
THINK THAT THE LACK OF
PREPAREDNESS WOULD IT WOULD BE
BETTER TO WAIT.
BUTT DAPG CERTIFIES THAT YOU
COULD RUN INTO ANOTHER HYDRO
ISSUE THAT COULD REALLY SIDE
TRACK YOU.
BUT I THINK THAT YOU REALLY
HAVE TO LOOK THE PREMIER AND
THE LACK OF POLICY AND SAY,
WHAT WILL YOU CAMPAIGN ON?
WHAT ARE YOU ALL ABOUT?
YOU HIRE MAC PENNEY AWAY FROM
HERE AND HIS OTHER ACTIVITIES
TO CREATE POLICY.
WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN I THINK
AGES AGO.
BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT WITHOUT
POLICY YOU DON'T HAVE AN
ELECTION.
I THINK IT'S STILL POSSIBLE THE
IN THE SPRING.
I WOULD AGREE WITH SUSANNA THAT
IT SEEMS MORE LIKELY THEY'LL
WAIT.

Steve says ALL OF THE CRITICISM
THAT EVES IS TAKING FOR THE
LACK OF POLICY OR LEADERSHIP,
HE'S WITHIN FOUR OR FIVE POINT
OF THE LIBERALS.
SEVENTH OR EIGHT YEAR OF TORY
RULE IN ONTARIO.
THAT'S NOT BAD.

Susanna says I THINK THEY HAVE EVERYTHING
GOING FOR THEM, QUITE FRANKLY.
THEY HAVE A KNEW LEADER.
THEY'VE MOVED TO THE CENTRE TO
GET MORE VOTES THAT WAY.
UM, THEY HAVE A VERY
EXPERIENCED CAMPAIGN TEAM.
THEY GOT AN ECONOMY THAT'S
ROARING OUT JOBS.
YOU KNOW, IF ANYTHING, MAKES
THE ELECTORATE HAPPY.
IT'S A LOT OF JOB.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
HOLD UP IS.
AND I THINK, FRANKLY, I DON'T
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE EXCUSE IS,
EITHER.
UM, COME MARCH 23RD, THE
PREMIER WILL HAVE BEEN THE
LEADER OF THE PARTY FOR A FULL
YEAR.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT-- THE
LAST SUMMER, YOU KNOW, THE
PARTY HAD BEEN THROUGH A--
THROUGH A HORRENDOUSLY LONG
LEADERSHIP CAMPAIGN.
THEY NEED TODAY REST UP OVER
THE SUMMER.
THEY NEED TODAY GET SOME MONEY
IN THE BANK.
BUT THEY LOST CONTROL OF THE
AGENDA IN THE FALL.
AND IF THEY CAN'T GET IT
TOGETHER, BY THIS SPRING,
POLICY-WISE, AND PUT AN AGENDA
OUT THERE, I THINK IT'S-- IT'S
THEIR LAST CHANCE.
THEY START WAITING UNTIL THE
FALL, IT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR
THEM.
THEY COULD HAVE HYDRO BROWN
OUTS IN THE SUMMER.
MEDIA WILL PORTRAY IT IF-- IF
IT GOES PAST JUNE THAT THEY'RE
HANGING ON TO POWER BY THE
FINGERPRINTS AND THEY'RE SO
CLOSE TO FORMING MAJORITY
GOVERNMENT.
WHAT'S THE HOLD UP?

Robert says THE LATEST IN THE POLL IS
FOR DALTON MCGUINTY WHO WOULD
MAKE THE BEST PREMIER, PEOPLE
TURN TO EVES AND NOT MCGUINTY.
YOU HAVE THIS HUGE SUPPORT FOR
THE LIBERALS CONTINUING.
ALWAYS IN FIRST PLACE FOR
MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS.
YET WHEN PEOPLE ASK WHO WOULD
MAKE THE BEST PREMIER, THEY'RE
NOT TALKING ABOUT DALTON
MCGUINTY BUT EVES Y NOT DO IT
NOW?

Steve says PEOPLE LIKE TO
SHUFFLE THE CABINET JUST BEFORE
THE ELECTION.

Robert says GAME FACE.

Steve says THAT'S RIGHT.
GET THE FAME FACE ON-- GAME
FACE ON.
WHAT ABOUT THE SHUFFLE?

Robert says I HEARD THAT HODGSON AND
RUNCIMAN WON'T LEAVE.
I HEARD NOW THAT BONE HAPPEN.
RUNCIMAN IS THERE.
HODGSON GOES.
PEOPLE SAY, OH, OKAY, HE'S
GOING.
OTHERS WAY GO.
IT WILL BE A MAJOR SHUFFLE.
EVES SAID YESTERDAY IT'S NOT
ON.
OKAY?
I'LL FIND SOMEBODY TO REPLACE
HODGSON IN MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS.
MAYBE A LITTLE TINKERING,
NO MAJOR SHUFFLES.
NOT ON THE CARDS HE SAYS.
A LOT OF NEW DEMOCRATS DON'T
BELIEVE THAT.
THEY BELIEVE HE WILL HAVE TO
PUT A NEW FACE IN THE
GOVERNMENT FOR THE ELECTION.
MOST PREMIERS DO.
FOR THE PREMIER, AT THIS POINT
IT'S STATUS QUO.

Susanna says I THINK THAT'S A SMART THING
TO DO, ACTUALLY.
JUST TINKER AND NOT GO ANY
FURTHER.
WHAT-- WHY DO YOU WANT TO PUT A
MINISTER IN A FEW MAJOR-- NEW
MAJOR PORTFOLIO THAT THEY DON'T
KNOW JUST BEFORE THE
LEGISLATURE COMES BACK INTO
SESSION AND JUST BEFORE AN
ELECTION.
YOU'VE GOT A BIG POTENTIAL FOR
A THE LOT OF MESS UP S IF YOU
DO THAT.

Steve says OKAY.
LET'S GO OVER CONVENTIONAL
WISDOM HERE.
BECAUSE THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM
ON WINNING AN ELECTION IS YOU
NEED A GOOD LEADER AND A
PLATFORM AND A GOOD CAMPAIGN.
THERE'S REALLY NOT THAT MUCH OF
AN EMPHASIS ON GETTING GREAT
CANDIDATES.
I'M TOLD BY THE LIBERALS THAT
THEY REALLY WANT TO MAKE A PUSH
FOR GREAT CANDIDATES IN THIS
RACE AND I NOTE THAT THEY'RE
BRINGING FORWARD, PETER FONSEKA
RUNNING IN MISSISSAUGA EAST.
AND THEY HAVE LINDA JEFFREY,
THE BUDGET CHIEF IN BRAMPTON UP
IN BRAMPTON.
THEY SAY THAT TWO OR THREE
TORONTO CITY COUNCILLORS WILL
RUN FOR LIBERAL POSITIONS AND
THAT THEY'RE ACCORDING TO A
SENIOR EXECUTIVE-- SENIOR COURT
EXECUTIVE TO RUN FOR THE TORIES
AS WELL.
THEY FEEL THEY NEED TO PUT A
VERY STRONG CODRAY OF
CANDIDATES OUT THERE.
I WANT SOME THEORIES ON THIS.
WHY DO YOU, ROBERT?

Robert says EYE THINK TO FURTHER PROTECT
AND INSULATE, ISOLATE MCGUINTY.
UM, YOU KNOW, MCGUINTY IS STILL
RELATIVELY UNKNOWN FOR PEOPLE
IN THIS PROVINCE.
HIS POLICIES ARE OUT THERE.
BUT GENERALLY PEOPLE ARE SORT
OF LOOKING AROUND FOR
ALTERNATIVES.
NOT SURE THAT MAYBE HE'S THE MAN.
BUT IF YOU BRING A GOOD TEAM
TOGETHER, ANY CHIEF EXECUTIVE
OFFICER WILL BE SUCCESSFUL IF
YOU HAVE A GREAT TEAM AROUND
YOU.
QUICK CASE IN POINT, MEL
LASTMAN, MAYOR OF NORTH YORK.
VERY SUCCESSFUL.
WHY?
SURROUNDED BY VERY TALENTED
PEOPLE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENTS.
COMES TO TORONTO, A LOT OF
THOSE PEOPLE DON'T COME WITH
HIM.
A GOOD FIRST TERM AND A
DISASTROUS SECOND TERM.
ANY GOOD EXECUTIVE SURROUND
HIMSELF WITH GOOD PEOPLE AND
THAT'S WHY MCGUINTY IS GOING
WITH BIG NAMES.

Steve says GIVE ME YOUR THEORY?

Susanna says IT'S THE BEST THING TO DO.
YOU ALWAYS GET THE STAR
CANDIDATES THAT YOU CAN.
EVEN IF YOU'LL WIN AN ELECTION
ON LEADERSHIP.
BUT LOOK AT IT FROM THEIR POINT
OF VIEW.
THEIR LEADER DOES POLL, UM,
SIGNIFICANTLY BEHIND THE
PREMIER.
ON THE LEADERSHIP ISSUE.
USUALLY, UM, CAMPAIGNS ARE WON
ON LEADERSHIP.
BUT IF THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE
WHAT YOUR MESSAGE IS BECAUSE
YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT THE
TORIES' MESSAGE IS GOING TO BE,
YOU NEED THAT STRONG TEAM.

Robert says TROUBLE IS THAT SOMETIMES
SUPERSTARS ARE BIG... CONDAY
FOR THE NDP.
BIG, BIG BUILD UP WHEN THEY
CAME IN.
TOUTED BY THE LIBERALS.
MADE IT TO CABINET.
WEREN'T READY FOR IT AND BOMBED
OUT IN A COUPLE OF YEARS.
BE CAREFUL YOU WHO PICK.
LIBERALS ARE PICKING CAREFULLY
WITH PEOPLE WITH LOTS OF
EXPERIENCE THAT CAN TRANSLATE
TO QUEEN'S PARK.
TIME WILL TELL.

Steve says WE SHALL CHECK BACK
WITH YOU TWO IN A FEW TIMES.
WE'LL SEE THE PREDICTIONS AT
THAT TIME.
THANK YOU IS VERY MUCH.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM
FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY, THANK YOU.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2003, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Should I Stay or Should I Go?