Transcript: Fourth Reading - Show 290 | Nov 24, 2002

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON 4TH READING,
MAKING THE GRADE, AND
MAKING THE CUTS.
KTED TORONTO SCHOOLS FEEL THE
BUDGET KBOOIF WHILE THOSE
UNIVERSITY BOUND WORRY IF
THERE WILL BE A PLACE FOR THEM
AT ALL.

Steve, Ruth, Richard, and Mac sit around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray coat over a gray polo shirt.

Ruth Grier is in her sixties, with short white hair.
Richard Mahoney is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short white hair.
Mac Penney is in his sixties, clean-shaven and balding.

Steve says GOOD SUNDAY AFTERNOON,
EVERYBODY.
I AM STEVE.
AND THIS IS 4TH READING.
THE PERENNIAL BURR IN THE
BACKSIDE OF TORY GOVERNMENT,
EDUCATION.
IT'S HEATING UP AGAIN.
THE CONSERVATIVES ARE
DETERMINED TO BALANCE THE
SCHOOL BOARD BUDGETS IN OTTAWA,
HAMILTON, OTTAWA AND TO AREN'T
OWE AFTER LOCAL TRUSTEES
REFUSE TO DO SO.
THE GOVERNMENT APPOINTED
SUPERVISOR IN TORONTO SAID HE
HAD DONE JUST THAT.
PAUL CHRISTI PROMISES TO
MAINTAIN SPEND OING TEACHERS
AND TEXTBOOKS BUT ON THE
CHOPPING BLOCK.
MORE THAN 500 JOBS, 6 OUTDOOR
EDUCATION SITES AND PERHAPS
SOME OF THOSE 24 TEACHER SICK DAYS.

A clip plays in which a man in his fifties gives a press conference.
A caption reads “Paul Christie. Toronto District School Board Supervisor.”
Paul is clean-shaven and bald.

He says ON MY ARRIVAL, THE BUDGET
SHORT FALL WAS ESTIMATED TO BE
90 MILLION.
THE PROPOSED BUDGET, I AM
PRESENTING TODAY INCREASES
CLASSROOM SPENDING AND BEGINS
THE LONG OVERDUE JOB OF
CUTTING THE BOARDS EXTRA
ORDINARILY HIGH ADMINISTRATIVE
COSTS.
WE HAVE STRETCHED OUR DOLLARS
TO SUPPORT THE CLASSROOM AND
TO SUSTAIN A WIDE VARIETY OF
BOARD WIDE PROGRAMS FOR STUDENTS.

Now in the Legislature, an MPP speaks.
A caption reads “Rosario Marchese. NDP Education Critic.”
Rosario is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair and glasses.

He says IF YOUR SUPERVISOR IS
ALLOWED TO CUT HUNDREDS OF
RESPONSIBLE ADULTS FROM OUR
SCHOOLS, OUR STUDENTS, I PUT
TO YOU, WILL BE PUT IN DANGER.

The caption changes to "Mike Colle, MPP. Liberal, Eglington-Lawrence."
Mike is in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with short white hair.

He says I HAVE ROOFS IN MY RIDING
WHERE THE SCHOOL ROOFS ARE NOT
GOING TO BE FIXED.
I GOT TOILETS THAT AREN'T
GOING TO BE FIXED.
I HAVE SCHOOLS FALLING APART
AND YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO STAND
UP THERE AND SAY YOU ARE PROUD
OF THIS CUT.

The caption changes to "Ernie Eves. Premier."
Eves is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with gelled blond hair.

He says FIRST OF ALL, MONEY SPENT
IN THE CLASSROOM IS ACTUALLY
INCREASED UNDER THE SUPERVISOR'S
[applause]
HE TALKS ABOUT THE COMMITMENT
TO EDUCATION OF THIS
GOVERNMENT.
THIS GOVERNMENT HAS INCREASED
EDUCATION SPENDING BY 1 AND A
HALF BILLION AND WE ARE
REVIEWING THE FUNDING FORMULA
AS WE PROMISED TO DO AT THE
SAME TIME.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Steve says WITH THEIR TAKE ON WHETHER
MR. CHRISTI MAKES GOOD SENSE
OR COOKS THE BOOKS AS THEY SAY,
HERE ARE RICHARD PAST
PRESIDENT OF THE ONTARIO
LIBERAL.
THAT TITLE IS GETTING LONGER.
FORMER NDP CABINET MINTISTER
RUTH AND NATIONAL PUBLIC
RELATIONS THERE'S MCPEN
NEECHLT RUTH TO YOU FIRST.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE MIX
OF DECISIONS MR. KRIFT MADE TO
GET TORONTO BOOKS IN BALANCE?

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth says WELL, THERE'S NO MIX TO
THEM, THEY ARE ALL BAD.
AND AS WE HAVE SAID BEFORE, ON
THIS SHOW THRX IS ABOUT AN
ACCOUNTANT BALANCING BOOKS,
NOT ABOUT PROVIDING GOOD
EDUCATION.
WHAT HORRIFIED ME THE MOST WAS
A QUOTE FROM THE PREMIER
SAYING, THAT, IN FACT, THE
EDUCATION SYSTEM IS ABOUT THE
EDUCATION OF THE CHILD, NOT
ABOUT HOW MANY STAFF WE HAVE
IN AN ADMINISTRATION BUILDING,
BUT LONGING TO A UNION, DOING
NOTHING. SO THIS DISTINCTION
BETWEEN THE CLASSROOM AND
EVERYTHING ELSE THAT SUPPORTS
THAT CLASSROOM AND IT IS, YOU
KNOW, THE PROBLEM.

Steve says RICHARD?

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard says YEAH, THERE IS A MYTH, I
THINK, THAT THESE GUYS HAVE
BEEN TRYING TO PERPETRATE
SINCE 95 WHICH IS, EVERYTHING,
PLOWING ALL SORTS OF MON INTO
EDUCATION AND NOT IN THE
CLASSROOM.
THAT MYTH, WELL, PERHAPS SOME
BES, IN THE EARLY DAYS.
NO ONE BELIEVES IT ANYMORE.
IN OTTAWA, TOOK OVER THE
SCHOOL BOARD, THE FIRST THING
THEY DID.
WAS CUT SOCIAL EDUCATION AND
PRINCIPLES.
THAT IS A PRETTY CLASSROOM.

Steve says AND HERE FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH.
DIDN'T CUT SPECIAL ED AND VICE
PRINCIPALS.

Richard says WHAT THEY DID DO THOUGH IN
THE SIX YEARS PREVIOUS TO THIS
GOVERNMENT, THEY CUT THE HECK
OUT OF SPECIAL EDUCATION, THEY
CUT THE HECK OUT OF TEACHERS
AND SO, I WOULD SAY, I HATE TO
SAY THIS BEING A PARENT OF
THREE KIDS IN THE OTTAWA BOARD
THAT PROBABLY THE TO AREN'T
OWE BOARD SUFFERED THE MOST
EVEN MORE THAN THE OTTAWA
BOARD.

Steve says FULL DISCLOSER, MR. PENNY,
I BELIEVE YOU GAVE ASSISTANCE
TO MR. CHRISTI ON HIS WORK FOR
THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT ON
THIS FILE. SO, WITH THAT IN
MIND, TELL US WHY YOU THINK
THIS IS THE RIGHT MIX.

The caption changes to "Mac Penney. Ontario PC Advisor."

Mac says I THINK, STEVE, THAT
MR. CHRISTI WENT INTO A
SITUATION IN WHICH THE BOARD
OF TRUSTEES HAVING DONE --
SPENT 912 MILLION IN 4 YEARS
IN TRANSITIONAL FUNDING, THAT
WAS THERE TO HELP THEM MOVE
FROM THE OLD FUNDING MODEL TO
THE NEW FUNDING MODEL.

Steve says PROVINCIAL MONEY.

Mac says HAVING SPENT 75 PERCENT ON
SOME SERVICES AND OUTSIDE,
TOTALLY OUTSIDE OF THE
CLASSROOM.

Richard says ON EDUCATION.

Mac says NOT ON EDUCATION.
GOT TO A POINT WHERE THEY
SAID THEY COULD NOT BALANCE A
BUDGET THIS YEAR, A YEAR IN
WHICH THE PROVINCE HAD KICKED
IN ANOTHER HALF A BILLION.
AND SAID THEY COULDN'T FIND
ANOTHER CENT.
NOT ANOTHER CENT.

Steve says WHAT WAS THE MOST OFFENSIVE
EXPEND TOUR DO YOU THINK HE FOUND.

Mac says THE MOST OFFENSIVE?
I DON'T THINK IT WAS CON
EXPEND TOUR TOUR. THE I THINK
THE MOST OFFENSIVE THING WAS
AN ATTITUDE, THAT HE FOUND.

Steve says WHICH WAS?

Mac says WHICH WAS THAT, AT THE END
OF THE DAY, THE TRUSTEES, 12
TRUSTEES, ABANDONED, I THINK
ADVOCATED THE RESPONSIBILITY
TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THE
CHILDREN, INCONSISTENT WITH
THE ACT --

Ruth says COME ON.

Mac says THEY GAVE, THEY SURRENDERED
CONTROL OF LOCAL EDUCATION
OVER 90 MILLION IS WHAT THEY DID.

Ruth says AND WE WISH THEY DIDN'T
HAVE TO DO THAT BUT THEY WERE
THERE WERE SOME WAYS THEY
WERE NOT PREPARED TO GO.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE
CUTS, EVERY TIME YOU GO INTO A
SCHOOL WHARX DO YOU SEE FIRST?

Mac says YOU SEE REPORT TO THE OFFICE.

Ruth says WHO IS IN THE OFFICE?
THE SECRETARY.
THE SECRETARY IS MORE MULTI
TASKED THAN ANYBODY IN THE
ENTIRE SYSTEM.
AND YOU ARE GOING TO CUT 100
SECRETARIES. AS MY NEIGHBOR
SAID TO ME, WHEN MY KID THROWS
UP IN SCHOOL, IT'S THE
SECRETARY WHO MINDS HER.
UNTIL I CAN GET THERE SKT
THAT'S WHY -- ALL OF THAT IS
FOR NOTHING.

Mac says RUTH, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY
IS DENYING SUCCESS IT IS ARE
IMPORTANT BUT EVERY SCHOOL IN
TORONTO WILL HAVE AT LEAST ONE,
IF NOT TWO SECRETARIES, STILL
IN PLACE.
THOSE WONL 00 PO ZUTIONS,
50 WERE ALREADY OUT OF THE
SYSTEM.
AND 50 WILL BE -- RICHARD
MENINGED VICE PRINCIPALS, THE
DEZUING WAS ACTUALLY MADE BY
THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES NOT BY
MR. CHRISTI.
THAT PROGRAM WAS IN PLACE
SINCE LAST APRIL.

Richard says MR. CHRISTI OR BY THE BOARD
OF TRUSTEES OR WHOEVER IT WAS
MADE BY.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS IN TONT ROW,
OTTAWA AND HAMILTON.
THE ACHILLES HEEL IS THE MESS
OF EDUCATION.
HOW MANY SCHOOLS, HOW MANY
SCHOOLS HAVE YOU BEEN IN WHERE
WE HAVE AN OVER ABUNDANCE OF
ADMINISTRATIVE HELP.
IT DOESN'T EXIST ANY MORE
BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN KUINGT
EDUCATION FOR SEARCH YEARS
FERMENT IF THERE IS ONE THING
THAT YOU GUYS DESERVE TO BE
DEFEAT OD IS THE MESS YOU HAVE
LEFT IN EDUCATION.
I FEEL ONE OF THESE DAYS, WE
ARE ALL LUCKY ACTUALLY GREW UP
AT A TIME WHEN ALL OF THIS
STUFF WASN'T HAPPENING.
MUSIC, HI MUSIC FROM GRADE
FIVE TO GRADE 13 WHICH HAS HAD
A TREMENDOUS IMPACT.
THAT DOESN'T EXIST, MOST
SCHOOLS DON'T EVEN HAVE A PART
TIME MUSIC TEACHER.

Ruth says I CAN'T EVEN BRING MYSELF
TO TALK ABOUT THE CLOSURE OF
THE OUTDOOR EDUCATION CENTRE.
THE EXPERIENCE FOR SO MANY
KIDS OF GOING TO THE --
TALKING ABOUT THE TORONTO
SITUATION OR THE TORONTO
ISLAND SYSTEM GOING TO BE
IMPORTANT AND REMEMBERED
THROUGHOUT THEIR LIVES.
AND IT GOES FOR NOTHING.
IN THIS GOVERNMENT'S
CONCEPTION OF WHAT THEY THINK
EDUCATION IS.

Mac says I THINK THAT ON THE
ADMINISTRATION SIDE, THAT
RICHARD MENINGS, I THINK AN
INTERESTING CONTRAST BETWEEN
THE DECISIONS MADE IN THE
OTTAWA BERD VERSUS THE TO
AREN'T OWE BOARD ON
ADMINISTRATION.
THE OTTAWA BOARD IS PROBABLY
ONE OF THE LEANEST
ADMINISTRATIVE BOARDS IN
ONTARIO.
ONLY SPEND ABOUT 2 PERCENT OF
THEIR TOTAL BUDGET ON
ADMINISTRATION.
AND IN TORONTO, LOOKING AT AND
THIS IS THE WAY THAT THE
BUDGETS ARE DONE. THE
ADMINISTRATION BUDGET, MORE OF
THEIR LOCAL OPTION FUNDING
INTO ADMINISTRATION THAN THEY
DID IN THE CLASSROOM

Ruth says TRYING TO AMAL GA MATE 6
BOARDS ALL OF WHICH COULD
STAND BY ITSELF.

Mac says THEY WERE STILL MAKING
THOSE DEZUINGS AFTER 912
MILLION IN 4 YEARS.
AT SOME POINT, YOU GOT TO RUN
OUT OF THE EXCUSE ON THE FRONT.

Steve says LET'S GET IN THE LAST
MINUTE ON THIS.
LET'S GET THE, ONE OF THE
BIGGER BUGABOOS ON THE TABLE.
MR. CHRISTI THOUGHT HE COULD
SAVE A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY IF
HE WORKED OUT SOME KIND OF NEW
INTERESTING SYSTEM, OR FORMULA
WITH THE BOARDS SO THAT, THERE
WOULD BE LESS TEACHER AB
SENATOR TISM.
24 SICK DAYS PER SCHOOL YEAR.
WHICH SOME PARENTS MAY FIND TO
BE A LOT.
WHAT WAS HIS VIEW ON WHAT YOU
COULD DO ABOUT THAT?

Mac says I CONTINUING IS, A T IS A
PE REIN IAL PROBLEM, IN SOME
CASES THEY WILL BE ABSENT,
THEY GET SKPIL IN THIS THE
CASE OF ELEMENTARY TEACHER,
THEY DEAL WITH STUDENTS WHO
ARE FREQUENTLY ILL AND VARIOUS
SORTS OF CHILDHOOD DISEASES. I
THINK WHAT YOU FIND AND WHEN
YOU LOOK AT THIS AND NOT JUST
OTTAWA AND NOT JUST HAMILTON
IS THAT BOARDS CONSISTENTLY
BLOW THROUGH THEIR BUDGETING
ON THEIR OKAINGAL SUPPLY
TEACHER BUDGETS AND I DON'T
MEAN BY A FACTOR OF 10 OR 20
PERCENT, 50, 60, 70 PERCENT.

Steve says 20 SECONDS.

Ruth says THE MORE STRESS YOU PUT ON
THE TEACHERS, WHICH IS WHAT
ALL OF THIS CUTTING OF
ADMINISTRATION IS DOING, THE
MORE LIKELIHOOD YOU HAVE
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE AS
HEALTHY AS THEY OUGHT TO BE
AND JUST CALL THE WHOLE THING
CONTRADICTS ITSELF.

Steve says YOUR WIFE A TEACHER.

Richard says NOW SEARCH YEARS OF TELLING
PEOPLE THAT TEACHERS ARE NOT
GOOD ENOUGH, THEY DON'T GET DO
A GOOD ENOUGH JOB AND THEY GET
RUTH AT THE END OF THE DAY,
THAT IS GOING TO TAKE A TOLL
ON HEALTH PHYSICAL.

Steve says LET'S KEEP THE FOCUS
EDUCATION AND THE POST
SECONDARY LEVEL, BECAUSE FOR
MANY OF US OUR COLLEGE AND
UNIVERSITY DAYS MAKE UP SOME
OF OUR FOND EFFORT MEMORIES
FOR THIS YEAR'S CROP OF HIGH
SCHOOL MEMORIES, LIFE IS MORE
COMPLICATED, THE LAST YEAR FOR
GRAID 13-OAC IN ONTARIO.
SO ALL OF THOSE STUDENTS AND
THOSE IN GRADE 12 AS WELL, WHO
WILL GRADUATE NEXT JUNE, THEY
ARE ALL COMPETING FOR
ADMISSION TO THE POST
SECONDARY INSTITUTIONS AT THE
SAME TIME.
WILL THERE BE ENOUGH SPACES AT
COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES NEXT
FALL.
OR IS THE SO-CALLED DOUBLE
COHORT IN FOR A DOUBLE WHAMMY.

A clip shows a politician speaking in the Legislature.
A caption reads “Dianne Cunningham. Minister of Colleges and Universities.”
Dianne is in her late fifties, with short wavy blond hair and glasses.

She says QUALIFIED THE MOTIVATED
STUDENT IN FACT WILL FIND A
PLACE IN OUR COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES.

Steve says THE SO-CALLED DOUBLE COHORT
IS ABOUT TO HIFT THE POST
SECONDARY INSTITUTIONS NEXT
FALL AND SOME SAY THE SYSTEM
JUST ISN'T READY.

A woman speaks in an interview.
A caption reads “Marie Bountrogianni. Liberal Colleges and Universities Critic.”
Marie has black hair in a bob.

She says THE CRISIS OF THE DOUBLING
COHORT IS A RESULT OF POOR
PLANNING ON BEHALF OF THE
GOVERNMENT AND ALSO UNDER
FUNDING.
WE HAD THE WORST FACULTY
STUDENT RACH IO IN NORTH
AMERICA.
WE HAVE NOTHING TO BE PROUD
ABOUT WITH RESPECT WITH THIS
GOVERNMENT'S CONTRIBUTION TO
POST SECONDARY EDUCATION.

The caption changes to "Rosario Marchese. NDP Education Critic."

Rosario says THE MISHANDLING, THEY
HAVEN'T PLANNED FOR IT PART OF
THE BAD PLANNING IS THEY GOT
NO MONEY, AND SO TO A GREAT
ETENT, THEY HAVE, THEY DEFERED
A LOST THE DECISION MAKING
SIMPLY BECAUSE MOST OF THEIR
MONEY WAS GOING FOR INCOME TAX CUTS.

Steve says ONTARIO MINISTER OF
TRAINING AND COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES, DIANE CUNNINGHAM
SAID SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

In an interview, Dianne says WE HAVE GOT OVER 2.2 BILL
DWRON NEW DOLLARS IN WOULD
ABOUTINGS. SWREE GOT A PROMISE
OF EVEN MORE THAN 368 MILLION
FOR THE UNIVERSITIES ALONE. IN
OPERATING DOLLARS.
WE HAVE 800 MILLION IN A
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
CHALLENGE FUND.

Steve says THEN THERE'S THE ISSUE OF SPACE.
MANY STUDENTS AND PARENTS FEAR
THAT INCREASED -- FOLLOW LEAVE
MANY THAT WON'T MAKE THE GRADE
AND SOME HAVE WARNED A HARD
TIME ACCOMMODATING THE HUGE
INFLUX.

A man speaks in an interview.
A caption reads “Doctor Byron Spencer. McMaster University.”
Byron is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short white hair and glasses.

He says THE UNIVERSITIES WILL
HAVE TO RESPOND IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER.
THEY MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE
THAT MANY MORE STUDENTS.
FAMILIAR APPROXIMATE -- AND
ENROLL. THEY CAN COPE.

At the Legislature, another MPP speaks.
A caption reads “Marie Bountrogianni. Liberal Colleges and Universities Critic.”

Marie says AS EARLY AS LAST SPRING,
STATISTICS SHOWED UP TO 30
PERCENT WON'T GET IN
THESE ARE STUDENTS THAT HAVE
PLAYED BY THE RULES AND WORKED
AND STUDIED.

Steve says PARENTS HAVE SAVED AND THEY
WILL NOT HAVE THE SPACE.
BUT DIANE CUNNINGHAM SAID THE
VAST MAJORITY OF STUDENTS HAVE
NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

In her interview, Dianne says IT'S A TIME OF CONCERN
FOR STUDENTS AND THEIR PARENTS
AS THEY MAKE VERY IMPORTANT
CHOICE FOR THEIR LIFE.
AND WE HAVE PROMISED THAT
THERE WILL BE A SPACE FOR
EVERY QUALIFIED, MOTIVATED STUDENT.
AND WE WILL KEEP THE PROMISE.

The clips end.

Back in the studio, Steve sits with Dianne Cunningham.

Steve says ARE WE READY FOR THE DOUNL
COHORT.
LET'S GET ANSWERS FROM THE
MINISTER OF TRAINING COLLEGES
AND UNIVERSITIES THERE'S DIANE
CUNNINGHAM.
CONSERVATIVE MPP.

Dianne says WELCOME TO TO.

Steve says LET'S GO BACK TO FIRST
PRINCE ELS.
DOW BELIEVE EVERY HIGH SCHOOL
GRADUATE IN ONTARIO IS
ENTITLED TO GO TO THE
UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE OF HIS
OR HER CHOICE?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Dianne Cunningham. Minister of Colleges and Universities."
Dianne is wearing a black blazer over a black shirt.

She says WELL, THEY WOULD LIKE TO GO,
FIRST OF ALL, TO THE COLLEGE
OR UNIVERSITY OF THEIR CHOICE.

Steve says ENTITLED TO FEEL THAT?

Dianne says YEAH, I THINK SOMENT I
THINK YOU HAVE TO SHOOT FOR
YOUR DREAMS FERMENT BUT MOST
OF THEM ARE VERY WELL
INFORMED.
WE HAVE A LOT MORE INFORMATION
THAN WE DID, YOU KNOW, 10
YEARS AGO OR FIVE YEARS AGO.
THE UNIVERSITIES, YOU KNOW,
HAVE -- THE COLLEGES KEEP
FORMS, INDICATED AND WEB SITE
AND TELL BY COURSE WHO FAILS,
WHO GETS SCHOLARSHIPS, WHO
DOESN'T.
A LOT OF INFORMATION.

Steve says BUT SHOULD YOU BE ABLE TO
GO ANYWHERE YOU WANT TO GO?

Dianne says THEY DON'T GET TO GO
ANYWHERE.
THE PARENTS WANT THEM TO GO TO
WESTERN, THEY DECLINE AND GO
SOMEWHERE ELSE. SO WHAT'S
HAPPENING NOW IS, A LITTLE
MORE EXCITING BECAUSE IT HAS
BEEN HUGE, YOU KNOW, CHAFERJS
MADE TO OUR COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES IN THE LAST FIVE
YEARS BECAUSE WE KNEW WE WERE
GOING TO HAVE PRETTY EXCITING
TIMES.
MOST OF THEM ARE VERY
REALISTIC.
ABOUT 50 PERCENT OF THEM GET
THEIR FIRST CHOICE.

Steve says YOUR MANTRA HAS ALWAYS BEEN,
WE SAW, EVERY QUALIFIED AND
MOTIVATED STUDENT WILL FIND A
SPACE.
Define qualified.

Dianne says TO STUDENTS IT
MEANS THE MARKS AND THEIR CHOICE.
IF THEY WANT TO GET INTEREST A
COMPETITIVE COURSE,
ENGINEERING, MATHEMATICS,
COMPUTER SCIENCE, THEN THEY
HAVE TO KNOW WHAT THE CUT OFF
WAS THE YEAR BEFORE AND TAKE A
LOOK AND SEE THOU WORKS THIS
YEAR.
THE OTHER WORD I USE AS A
MOTHER, MORE THAN ANYTHING
ELSE IS MOTIVATED. YOU HAVE TO
REALLY WANT IT.
BECAUSE, EVEN WHEN YOU GET
THERE, YOU HAVE TO WORK HARD
TO STAY, KEEP YOUR MARK LEVELS
UP SO THAT YOU CAN KEEP YOUR
SCHOLARSHIP OR AND THESE ARE
VERY EXCITING TIMES, BUT THESE
STUDENTS ARE FEELING A LITTLE
MORE CHALLENGED MAINLY BECAUSE
OF THE HYPE AROUND THE DOUBLE
COHORT.
BUT THOSE THAT ENTERED INTO
THE COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITIES
IN THE LAST TWO YEARS ARE
PROBABLY MORE EXCITED THAN
EVER BEFORE.

Steve says THE KAULS A GET, THEY ARE
FREAKED OUT.

Dianne says YOU ENCOURAGE THOSE KIND OF CALLS.
YOU HAVE TO BE POSITIVE.
YOU HAVE TO BE POSITIVE.
I MEAN, I DON'T GET, I GET A
LOT OF GOOD ADVICE FROM
STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
EXCELLENT STUDENT
REPRESENTATION IN THIS
PROVINCE.
AND THEY PUT TOGETHER THEIR
BRIEFS, THEY SIT ON ADVICE REE
COMMITTEES ON STUDENT SAFT
SENTENCE. WE MET WITH THEM IN
THE LEGISLATURE ASSEMBLY. YOU
REMEMBER THOSE DAYS, RUTH,
WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR PARTIES
AND INVITE YOU DOWN KP LET YOU
KNOW WHAT THEY THINK. TODAY A
RECEIVED THE BRIEFS FROM THE
COLLEGE STUDENTS.
A REPRESENTATIVES, AND --
CHRNLS, ABOUT THEY CAN BE MORE
HOPE, TRANCE PARENT WITH THE
WAY THEY SPEND THE STUDENT'S
MONEY AND THIS IS TO DO WITH
STUDENT ASSISTANCE FEDERAL FP

Steve says AND THEN, PUT THE FEELINGS
OF A CATHLEEN CLARK WHO WROTE
ALET TORT NEWSPAPER SAYING, WE
ARE ANTICIPATING POST
SECONDARY COST FOR OUR
DAUGHTER INCLUDING HOUSESING,
BOOK, DECISION AND 60 TO
70,000 OVER FOIR YEARS.
WE ARE AVERAGE INCOME EARNERS
WHO HAVE BEEN SAVING FOR A
NUMBER OF YEARS, I NOW BELIEVE
THAT WE WILL BE PAYING FIRST
CLASS DOLLARS FOR A SECOND
CLASS EDUCATION.
YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

Dianne says MY RESPONSE TO THAT IS THAT
THIS HAS BEEN A FIVE YEAR PLAN
FIRST OF ALL, IN ORDER TO ACOM
DATE AS MANY AS 79,000 MORE
STUDENTS,
WE BUILT 61 BEAUTIFUL
BUILDINGS, RIGHT ACROSS THE
COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.
SOME HAVE JOINED TOGETHER.
WE HAVE NINE THAT ARE JOINED
FACILITIES. SO STUDENTS ARE
HAVING CHOICES TO GO TO
COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY AND END
UP AT COLLEGE WHICH THEY WANT,
TRANSFERABILITY.
THEN WE PUT OUR MONEY INTO
STUDENT ASSISTANCE WHICH WAS
THE SECOND PIECE AND IT IS NOT
JUST OSAP ANYMORE AND THE
COLLEGE STUDENTS AND THEIR
MORE RECENT BRIEF HAVE SAID TO
THE COLLEGES, TELL US, SO THAT
WE KNOW, WHAT TO DO WITH THE
TUITION SET ASIDE.
TELL US WHAT'S HAPPENING TO
THIS LAWYER FUBD EVER MONEY
GATHERED UP BY THE PRIVATE
SECTOR MATCHING THE
GOVERNMENT.
THE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES
HAVE MADE THIS HAPPEN, BY THE WAY.
THEY ARE THE ONES OUT THERE
LOOKING FOR STUDENT BIRTH
RACE. ARE AIMING FOR THE TOP.
THE LIST GOES ON.

Steve says DO YOU THINK THAT -- DID
YOU AGREE WITH WHAT THE
MINISTER SAID.
EVERY QUALIFIED AND MOTIVATED
STUDENT WILL FIND A PLACE IN
NEWT DOUBLE COHORT WORLD.

Richard says I AGREE EVERYONE SHOULD. I
DON'T AGREE WITH HER THAT
EVERYONE WILL. I WILL TELL YOU
WHY.
THE FIRST IS THAT THE
GOVERNMENT IS SCRAMBLE OING IT
ONE, SIMILAR TO THE WAY THEY
ARE SCRAMBLING ON OTHER
ISSUES. A YEAR OR TWO AGO, THE
DOUBLE COHOR T ANNOUNCEMENT
FTS FIRST MADE, ONE OF HER
COLLEAGUES ON THE SHOW SAYING
THAT THEY HAD PLANNED FOR THIS,
THEY BUDGETED FOR IT, I THINK
AROUND 60,000 ADDITIONAL
STUDENTS COMING IN BECAUSE OF
THE COHORT, THE NUMBERS SHOWED
IT IS GOING TO BE ABOUT
78,000.
SO THERE ARE A BUNCH OF
STUDENTS NEXT YEAR WHO ARE
GOING TO GET LEFT HIGH AND DRY,
THE ESTIMATES AS MANY AS 8 TO
ABOUT 20,000 DEPENDING ON WHO
YOU BELIEVE.
AND SO, FIRST OF ALL TLRX ARE
NOT ENOUGH SPACES. SECONDLY,
JUST TO GET THERE, IMAGINE,
YOU KNOW, WE -- THE MARK YOU
ED -- THE MARKS ARE HIGHER AND
HIGHER, THE FIRST YEAR RATES
AT WESTERN AND QUEENS AND U, F
FFERP -- AND FOLLOWING
FAMILIAR -- BY VIRTUE OF
DEMAND. YOU KNOW, GO BACK TO
WHEN -- TO WHEN WE WERE
GROWING UP, STEVE.
THERES A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE
COMING INTO THE SYSTEM.
AND BY THE WAY, AS MUCH AS THE
COHORT.
INCREASING ENROLL. FOR A BUNCH
OF REASONS OTHER THAN THE
DOUBLE COHORT AND THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY,
RESPONDING, INSPIRED IDEA
WHICH WAS THE COMMUNITY
COLLEGE SYSTEM, A WHOLE NEW
NETWORK, THAT SAME KIND OF
LEADERSHIP NOW FOR THIS
GENERATION.

Steve says RUTH, YOUR VIEW.

Ruth says ONE THING TO GIVE THEM
ACCESS AND I AM INCLINED TO
AGREE WITH THE MINISTER. I
KNOW A LOT OF PLANNING PROVIDE
A PLACE FOR EVERY STUDENT TO
BE AND BUT SOME LUCK, THEY
MIGHT MAKE THAT.
BUT WHAT IF THE OPPORTUNITY
FAMILIAR -- BECAUSE WHAT IS
MISSING FROM ALL OF THIS
RATHER POLYAB A IS THE
OPERATING FUNDING FOR
UNIVERSITIES AND WE'RE NOW
HEARING ONTARIO SPENDING LESS
PER STUDENT THAN WE WERE IN
THE TOUGH TIME ITS OF 95, 96.
AND SO, FOR THE STUDENTS, THE
EXPERIENCE OF BEING AT
UNIVERSITY IS INTERACTION WITH
PEERS AND WITH PROFESSORS AND
IF CLASSES ARE LARGER, THAT IS
NOT THE SAME, IF LIBRARIES ARE
QUIET - AND THE OTHER ELEMENT
I WANT TO MAKE IS, WE HAVE TO
REMEMBER THAT THERE'S A LOT OF
THESE CHILDREN ARE GOING TO
NUMBER -- UPON YOUNGER THAN WE
SKB and YESTERDAY ITEM --
SUPPORT FOR THE KIDS BUNS THEY
GET ON. KA US.
< THAT'S THE ME, THE PART
THE DOUBLE COHORT DISKUING
THAT HAS NOT HAD ENOUGH ARK
TENSION.

Mac says MENTION THE
REVOLUTIONARY OF THE COMMUNITY
COLLEGE SYSTEM.
I THINK IT HAD TO GO BACK THAT
FAR TO FIND A PROGRAM AS
AMBITIOUS AS THE ONE THAT'S
THIS GOVERNMENT HAS
UNDERTAKEN WITH THE -- TO THE
DOUBLE COHORT.
THE HERE IS VOLUME OF SO IT'S
2.FCH -- AND IT IS ABOUT
ANOTHER 300 MILLION ON FACULTY
RENEWAL.
IT'S AN ADDITIONAL TLOOI 68
MILLION ON OPERATING IT IS AN
INITIATIVE OF SCALE THAT WE
SAW IN THE 60'S AND 70'S WITH
THE RESULT OF DEVELOPMENT OF
COMMUNITY COLLEGES THAT HAS
BEEN COMMITTED.

Dianne says NO, I DON'T WANT TO LEAST
STUDENTS WITH THE WRONG
IMPRESSION.
ON THE MARKS, 10 YEARS AGO,
THE AVERAGE MARK TO GET INTO
UNIVERSITY WAS 78.4 PERCENT
FERMENT
LAST YEAR, THE AVERAGE MARK TO
GET INTO UNIVERSITY WAS 80.5
PERCENT.
SO OVER10 YEARS, WE HAVE SEEN
THAT KIND OF DIFFERENCE. I
WANT TO REASSURE THE STUDENTS
THAT THESE MARKS ARE BEING
TRACKED BY SUBJECT.
WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE
COLLEGES AND THE UNIVERSITIES
SO WE KNOW THE MARKS.
REGISTRARS ARE DOING A
FABULOUS JOB.
THEY KNOW WHERE THESE STUDENTS
ARE COMING AND FROM THEIR HIGH
SCHOOLS SO THAT'S THAT ONE
ISSUE.
THE OTHER ONE, THIS HYSTERICAL
RESPONSE TO A 7,000 MORE
STUDENTS, WE PROMISED FULL
FUNDING WHICH THE UNIVERSITIES
ASKED FOR, THEY KNOW WHAT THE
NUMBER IS.
THEY NEGOTIATE IT.
FOR EVERY STUDENT THAT
APPEARS.

Steve says PLAYING POLITICS WITH THE NUMBERS?

Dianne says NO, I DON'T.
I THINK FROM TIME TO TIME THEY
LIKE TO SAY THAT THE
GOVERNMENT ISN'T READY BECAUSE
THEY PROBABLE THINK THEY'LL
GET MORE MOAN.
THAT IS NOT THE WAY WE HAVE
OPERATE THE --, THE DOUBLE
COHORT HAS BEEN A PART OF THE
PLAN SINCE WE NRP GOVERNMENT
AND WE STARTED TO PUT MORE
MOAN IN.
THE AT UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA.
FOR INSTANCE.

Richard says I DIDN'T HAVE A DATE AND I
TUESDAY ONCE AND THEY SERVED ME IT WAS.

Mac says AND IT HAS OPINION AN EF
COLLUSION.
THE UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA A
VERY GOOD EXAMPLE.
IN THAT WE WERE THERE A COUPLE
OF WEEKS AGO. YOU MUST BE SO
PROUD.
THE ENGINEERING COMPUTER
SCIENCE, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE
MORE UNDER GRADUATE STUDENTS
IN THE ENGINEERING COMPUTER
SCIENCE BY MORE THAN 1400 AND
THAT IS ABOUT OUR A TOP
PROGRAM WHICH IS QUALITY,
RUTH. SO JUST REMEMBER --
OTTAWA, NOW WAIT A MINUTE.
I AM THERE.
I AM THERE WORKING ON THIS
EVERY DAY, I AM TOTALLY
COMMITTED.
I REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE
FOR MY OWN KISD. I HATED IT
WITH MY ONE SON, HAD TO TAKE
COURSES THAT HE DIDN'T FIND
USEFUL.
WE HAVE BEENING ARE - PU WE
HAVE REALLY FAMILIAR -- ALMOST
400 MILL YNL -- FOR COMPUTER
SCIENCE, INNEARING THAT
STUDENT WANTS. STUDENTS WANT.
RUTH, THAT'S CALLED QUALITY.
GOOD CALL.

Ruth says LAST YEAR WE RAN ADS ACROSS
THE CALL AND 59TH ACROSS –

Dianne says WE WERE 10TH WHEN YOU WERE THERE
AND 10TH WHEN YOU WERE THERE.
WE WERE 10TH WHEN YOU WERE THERE.
WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN LAST, BUT
WE'RE ONTARIO, WITH 25
WONDERFUL COLLEGES 17 FABULOUS
UNIVERSITIES FOR WHICH WE
SHOULD BE SO PROUD.

Steve says RICHARD.

Dianne says AND THE OTHER PROBLEM IS
THAT MIGHT HAVE THREE OR FOUR
OR FIVE.
LOOK AT IT.

Richard says I DISAGREE
BUT ONE THING, THERE IS NO
QUESTION THAT THROUGH WHAT THE
SUPER BILL FUND, CAPITAL
EXPEND TOURS, JUST EXPLAIN
THAT LOO HUH, AM -- A AND AS
RUTH SYSTEM, WHAT IS
MISSUGGEST THE NEFERMS
FFERMENT -- AND IF -- TO MAKE
UP FOR THAT.

Steve says THE PROFESSOR AND STUDENT
RACH IO IS LOUSYER NOW THAN IT
HAS EVER BEEN SNOOFERMENT HOW
DO YOU KNOW THAT.

Dianne says I READ IT EVERY THEREWHERE.
STUDENTS ARE THE ONES I WORK WITH.
AND THE -- THEY THE COLLEGE
AND UNIVERSITIES.
THEY ARE PLEASED WITH.
IS THERE ROOM ARE IMPROVEMENT.
YU.. APPROXIMATE FAMILIAR -- YOU
HAVE GUARD FEDERAL IF -- AND
JUST STARTING FOR POWER --
MORE TO DO IN THAT REGARD.
WE HAVE QUALITY FACULTY AND WE
HAVE EQUALITY INSTRUCTORS
BECAUSE THE STUDENTS TELL US TA.

Ruth says THE NUMBER OF FIRST YEAR UNDER
GRADUATE STUDENTS BEING TAUGHT
BY FULLY PERCENT WAS FIF
PERCENT THAN FAMILIAR -- AND A
LOT OF FURTHERMORE -- AND IN 1985.

[Mixed voices]

Mac says AND DELETE THAT ISSUE
SLOWLY TO THE DOUBLE COHORT.
I THINK IN THE LATE 90'S.
SORRY.
IN THE EARLY 90'S, A
RECOGNITION THERE HAD TO BE
FAK ALL THEY RENEWAL BECAUSE
OF THE DEM GRAPH IBS OF THE
TEACHING POPULATION AND
UNIVERSITY.
BUT IF IT BEGIN, BE GAIN,
GUESSES AND STRTS.
AM --- - AND THE MONEY HAS
BEEN PUT IN, 3 OR 4 UH-HUH
MILLION.

Richard says IT IS RIGHT TO FOCUS
DOUBLE COHORT AND I THINK
THERE SAY GENERATION OF PEOPLE
THAT COME THROUGH FIVE YEARS
OF TURMOIL IN THEIR HIGH
SCHOOL EDUCATION AND NOW
ENTERING A TIME WHEN THERE IS
TURMOIL BUT WHETHER OR NOT A
SPACE FOR THEM.
AS MAC INDICATED AND AZ SAID
EARLIER.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM WELL BEYOND
THE DOUBLE COHORT IN TERMS OF
THE EK CO, THE EK CO
GENERATION.
WE HAVE A BUNCH OF NEW PEOPLE,
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A
CHALLENGE FOR THE NEXT 10
YEARS.

Steve says LET ME GET THE MINISTER TO
GIVE OUR VIEWERS VERY HAND OS
PRACTICAL ADVICE SINCE YOU ARE
RIGHT. YOU WORK ON THIS FILE
EVERY DAY AND THE REST OF US DO NOT.
THIS IS THE TIME OF THE YEAR
WHERE STUDENTS START TO SIT
DOWN WITH PARENTS AND THINK
ABOUT WHERE DO I WANT TO GO TO
SCHOOL NEXT YEAR.
YOU KNOW, TO HOW MANY
UNIVERSITIES SHOULD I SEND
APPLICATION FORMS AND ALL OF THAT.
NOW, RICHARD WAS TALKING ABOUT
THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN WE WENT,
I THINK WE APPLIED TO TWO OR
THREE OR FOUR.

Dianne says YOU WENT TO UNIVERSITY?
OH, MY GOODNESS.

Richard says I DON'T THINK, UT KNOW,
MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
GET INTO THE SCHOOL.

Steve says WE CERTAINLY, I GOT INTO MY
FIRST CHOICE, DID YOU?

Richard says I DID.

Steve says THOSE WERE THE DAYS.
MUCH EASIER.
JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU.
WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE
STUDENTS WHO ARE SITTING DOWN
THIS WEEKEND, MAYBE, TO FILL
OUT APPLICATION FORMS.

Dianne says THE SAME ADVICE THAT WHAT WE
CALL OUR AMBASSADORS WHO
REPRESENT THE COLLEGES AND THE
UNIVERSITIES AT OPEN PARENT
TEACHER PROGRAMS, WHEN THEY
ARE INVITED AND HAVE HEM AND
AM NOT TO DO THEIR HOME WORK
TORX DO THEIR RESEARCH. THERE
SAY LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION,
NEVER BEEN MORE, WE AS A
GOVERNMENT HAVE PUT OUT GOOD
INFORMATION MOU MORE
IMPORTANTLY –

Steve says SHOULD THEY FLOD THE UNIVERSITIES.

Dianne says NO, MOST OF THEM, NO, THEY
ARE ALREADY TALKING TO
GUIDANCE TEACHERS, GUIDANCE
TEACHERS ARE SITTING DOWN AND
MIGHT SAY THANK YOU, REALLY
WRK HARD. BUT THEY ARE FILLING
IN APPROXIMATELY 3.
THAT WOULD BE CORRECT.
BUT MANY OF THEM ARE DOING MORE.

Mac says WE GET A THREE.
AND THEN NOT TO APPLY TO THE
SCHOOL THAT IS SET FOR KNEE.

Dianne says THEY MADE GOOD CHOICES LAST YEAR.
17 PERCENT MORE STUDENTS
APPLIED TO OUR COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES AND GUESS WHAT,
17 PERCENT MORE WERE ACCEPTED
IN OUR UNIVERSITIES.
THAT IS VERY GOOD.

Mac says WHAT HAPPENS TO THE KID
WITH A FOO PERCENT AVERAGE.

Dianne says THEY CAN GET IT.
A GOOD CHOICE.

Richard says VERY WELL
IN UNIVERSITY BUT NOT AS WELL
IN HIGH SCHOOL.

Ruth says MIGHT NOT
GET THE FIRST CHOICE.

Dianne says WE HAVE STUDENTS HAFT YEAR
THAT WERE ACCEPTED WITH 65 PERCENT.
MAKE A GOOD CHOICE, THESE ARE
ALL GREAT UNIVERSITIES FERMENT
GOT IN THEIR FIRST CHOICE
WITH 65 FRS NOOCHLT NO.
THEY GOT IT.

Mac says THAT'S THE KEY.

Dianne says IT IS KEY TO MAKE A GOOD CHOICE.

Steve says ONE BIT OF BUSINESS BEFORE
WE LEAVE AND THAT IS, LAST, I
KNOW YOU WATCH THIS SHOW EVERY
WEEK SO YOU WILL SEE THIS.
WE WOULD LIKE TO CORRECT
POLLING NUMBER.
WE GOT OLD NUMBERS FROM THE
RESEARCH GROUP ON PARTY
SUPPORT.
SO FOR THE RECORD.
JUST THOSE PARTY SUPPORT
NUMBERS, WE WANT TO STRESS THAT.

A slate appears on screen, with the title “Fourth reading Environics poll, October 10-30.”
It shows that 44 percent of people would vote for the Liberals, 36 percent for the PC’s, and 18 percent for the NDP.

Steve says DIANE CUNNINGHAM, THE MINISTER
OF COLLEGE, UNIVERSITIES.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AT TVO.

Dianne says MY PLEASURE.

Steve says TO THE THREE OF YOU, THANKS
AS WELL.
THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS
WEEK.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Erica Balch.

Director, Michael Smith.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2002, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Fourth Reading - Show 290