Transcript: Dating and Relationships, Josey Vogels, Veronica Tennant | Feb 14, 2002

(music plays)

A title appears inside the shape of a house: More to Life. Words spin against a red and orange background: Health, Family, Home, Money, Fitness, Life. Fast clips show images related to the previous concepts, such as a dollar bill, a wheat field, and strands of DNA.

In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: "More to life."

Then, Mary Ito sits in a studio with textured yellow walls and the logo of the show in the background, which reads "More to life."

Mary is in her late thirties, with short black hair and bangs. She's wearing a pink cardigan, a black blouse, and a silver pendant necklace.

Mary says HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY. MY NAME IS MARY ITO. WELCOME TO MORE TO LIFE. LATER WE WILL HERE FROM A BALLET LENL END. BEFORE WE GET TO THAT, MANY OF US HAVE LOVE ON OUR MINDS TODAY. HOW TO GET IT, HOW TO KEEP IT. IN JUST A FEW MOMENTS YOU WILL GET A CHANCE TO ASK THE QUEEN OF ROMANCE, DATING AND RELATIONSHIP COLUMNIST. FIRST, HERE IS A LOOK AT CANADA'S OWN DATING QUEEN.

A clip plays on screen in which a woman types into a computer, then applies lipstick as she faces a mirror.

Lying between a man and a woman in bed, she says I'M HERE TO HELP.

(music plays)

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Josey Vogels. Dating/Relationship columnist."

Josey is in her thirties, with red hair in a feathery bob. She's wearing a yellow turtleneck.

She says MY BACKGROUND IS IN JOURNALISM. I STARTED WORKING AS AN EDIT OR AND THEY ASKED ME TO COME UP WITH A COLUMN. I THOUGHT WHAT CAN I WRITE ABOUT THAT I KNOW ABOUT AND HAVE EXPERIENCE IN TO TALK ABOUT WITH AUTHORITIES? SOMEHOW DATING AND SEX OCCURRED TO ME. THE WHOLE IDEA WHEN I STARTED THE COLUMN IS I DIDN'T WANT TO BE AN EXPERT. I WANTED THE COLUMN TO BE A PERSONAL REFLECTION. I THINK THAT MY WHOLE THING IS WHEN WE HAVE DATING OR RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS WE DON'T GO TO AN EXPERT. WE GO TO OUR GIRLFRIENDS. I THINK ONE OF THE MOST COMMON UNDERLYING THINGS WHEN IT COMES TO DATING AN RELATIONSHIPS, UNIVERSALLY, IS AM I NORMAL? THAT COMES FROM SCHOOL DAYS WHEN YOU ARE LIKE, HAVE YOU SLEPT WITH ANYONE? WHO IS WEAR AGO BRA? ITS COMPARING, ARE WE NORMAL? WHEN I STARTED THE COLUMN, THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WRITING ABOUT SEX. YOU WOULD FIND IT IN WOMEN'S MAGAZINES BUT THIS WAS IN A WEEKLY THAT COULD BE PICKED UP BY ANYBODY. I WAS WRITING IN A FRANK WAY. I WANTED TO USE REAL LANGUAGE THAT PEOPLE USE OOND NOT BE COY AND, YOU KNOW, CUTE ABOUT IT. SO AT THAT TIME, THE REACTION WAS MIXED. I REMEMBER WRITING ABOUT THIS GUY IN OTTAWA. HE WAS TALKING TO HIS SON THE FIRST TIME HE MASTER BAITED. PEOPLE WERE SHOCKED AND THOUGHT WHAT A HORRIBLE THING, THIS GUY IS A PERVERT. THERE WAS A LOT OF REACTION. I THOUGHT THAT IS INTERESTING THAT WE ARE... I STILL THINK AS MUCH AS WE TALK ABOUT SEX NOW MORE, SEVEN YEARS LATER, WE STILL ARE UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING TO KIDS ABOUT SEX. ITS ONE THING I HEAR FROM YOUNG PEOPLE, ITS NICE TO HAVE SOMEONE TALK ABOUT SEX IN A WAY THAT ISN'T TALKING DOWN TO US AND THAT DOESN'T JUST TALK ABOUT PUT PART A INTO SLOT B AND DON'T GET PREGNANT OR SICK. ANTISEX EDUCATION, AS I CALL IT. TO TALK ABOUT SEX IN POSITIVE TERMS.

As a clip shows a young man and a young woman clumsily trying to have sex inside a car, Josey narrates THERE ARE FEW THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO EXPERIENCE. BECAUSE AS I HAVE LEARNED, IT CAN HAVE A LAST EFFECT ON THE REST OF YOUR SEXUAL LIFE.

Josey says I AM NOT A FRAITD TO TALK ABOUT MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES. YEAH, I FELT IN A COLUMN TALKING ABOUT FIRST TIMES THAT I HAD TO TELL MY STORY OF THE FIRST TIME. YOU KNOW, COUNTRY GIRL GROWING UP DID IT IN A BARN WITH A GUY THAT I WAS, YOU KNOW, HE WAS MY BOYFRIEND BUT WHAT DID I KNOW? IT WAS GRADE TEN OR SOMETHING. HE WAS JUST AS INEXPERIENCED. THE WHOLE THING WAS UNPLEASANT. I ENDED UP WITH HAY IN MY UNDERWEAR THINKING, IS THIS IT?

Now in a clip Josey lies in a bed between a woman and a man who says WHO ARE YOU?

Josey says NOT MUCH OF A COMMUNE KAY TORE, IS HE? WHICH IS WHY I'M HERE FOR BOTH OF YOU. SO, JUST HOW LONG HAVE THE TWO OF YOU BEEN DOING... THIS?

In her interview, Josey says IN TERMS OF RELATIONSHIPS, I HAVE BEEN TO HELL AND BACK. I HAVE HAD RELATIONSHIPS WHERE I HAD MY HEART CRUSHED. I HAVE BEEN IN RELATIONSHIPS WHERE I HAVE BEEN DOING THE CRUSHING AND NOT SO WONDERFUL ABOUT IT. SO I MADE MISTAKES, TAKEN MY BLOWS. THE THING THAT I THINK IS ALWAYS KEPT ME COMING BACK IS THAT I DO LEARN SOMETHING EVERY TIME. I GO BACK TO THE NEXT ONE AND MAKE THE SAME STUPID MISTAKE. EACH TIME THERE IS SOMETHING I COME OUT OF IT WITH. I THINK ITS IMPORTANT AFTER EACH RELATIONSHIP TO SPEND TIME THINKING WHAT IS IT THAT MADE THAT NOT WORK, NOT GOING THE GUY WAS A BASTARD AN ALL MEN ARE JERKS. IT TAKES TWO. THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING WE BRING TO IT THAT DOES... THAT MAKES IT NOT WORK. BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT THAT AND TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT IT, FIGURE OUT NEXT TIME WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO DIFFERENTLY? THEN MAKE THE SAYS MISTAKE AGAIN. I DIVE IN HEAD FIRST, COME UP THREE MONTHS LATER FOR AIR AND SAY WHO IS THIS PERSON? I HAVE BEEN CAUGHT UP IN THE CLOUDS, GOD, THIS IS FANTASTIC. LOOK AT THE WAY HE BREATHES, ISN'T HE GOOD AT IT? THE INSANE FEELING IS LIKE A DRUG. YOU... WE LOVE THAT FEELING OF FALLING IN LOVE. BUT, YOU KNOW, TO ME... I LEARNED THAT YOU DON'T FALL IN LOVE. LOVE IS A VERY LONG SLOW BURN. FOR ME, TRUE LOVE CAME WHEN I LEARNED THAT LESSON AND MOVED SLOWLY AND FOUND THAT ACTUALLY LOVE GOT STRONGER.

(music plays)

In a clip she sings with another woman at a karaoke bar.

Josey says I HAVE JUST COME OUT OF ONE OF THOSE FALL IN HEAD OVER HEELS. THIS PERSON THAT I'M WITH NOW WAS THERE AS A FRIEND. I LOOKED AROUND AT THE DAMAGE AND WENT, OH, THIS PERSON IS STILL STANDING. STILL, YOU KNOW, WANTS TO BE THERE. SO WE STARTED GOING OUT. IT WAS WEIRD BECAUSE WE WERE FRIENDS. ITS THE THING OF CAN YOU TURN A FRIEND INTO A LOVER? IT WAS DIFFICULT AT FIRST. FOR A LONG TIME WE DIDN'T CALL IT A RELATIONSHIP. EVENTUALLY I WAS ABLE TO TRUST HIM, WHICH IS DIFFICULT. SO, YOU KNOW, YEARS LATER, WE'RE HAPPY TOGETHER.

(music plays)

An opening sequence plays which ends in a logo inside a TV set that reads "My messy bedroom, with Josey Vogels."

Josey says THE TV SHOW, SHOOTING IT WAS A GAS. TO CAP WHICH CHUR THE SPIRIT OF FRIENDS TALKING ABOUT SEX. WE LAUGH IN THERE. WE LAUGH ABOUT SEX.

In a snippet from the show, a young woman says I HAD ONE PARTNER WHO WAS NOT VERY GOOD AT TALKING DIRTY. ENDED UP POSTING EVERYTHING IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION? YOU'RE MY ABSOLUTE?

[LAUGHTER]

Josey says RUNNING AROUND THE CITY IN GOLD BOOTS IN THE MIDDLE OF JUNE WAS LIKE EXTREMELY HOT IN A SUPER HERO OUTFIT. I AM GETTING TO FULFILL MY WONDER WOMAN FAN TA SIS.

In a clip, Josey wears a tight Superhero suit, faces a woman and says ITS DIFFERENT, I'M A SUPER HERO.

Josey says ITS WRITING WRITING ABOUT SEX THAN HAVING YOUR FACE ON TELEVISION AND TALKING ABOUT IT, HAVING PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY PUT THE FACE TO THE NAME. SO THAT WAS DIFFICULT BECAUSE WHILE I HAD BEEN HONES IN THE THE COLUMN, THERE WERE SHOMTS IN THE SHOW WHERE I THOUGHT, GOD, IS MY MOTHER WATCHING THIS? THANK GOD SHE DOESN'T HAVE CABLE.

(music plays)

Inside a karaoke room, Josie and two other women sing
TO HAVE A LITTLE FUN
OH OH OH, TOTALLY CRAZY

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Karen LaRocca. Assistant."

Karen, in her twenties, with black hair in a bob, says WE DID A PHOTO SHOOT RECENTLY AND I WAS TOLD THAT THEY DID A NUDE THONG. SO I BOUGHT ONE FOR HER. HOW MANY DO THAT FOR THEIR BOSS?

The caption changes to "Jenny Burman. Friend."

Jenny, in her thirties, with big curly brown hair, says I BOUGHT CHOCOLATE TART AND I WAS EATING IT AND I THOUGHT IF THIS TART WERE A PERSON WHO WOULD IT BE? IT WAS JOSIE. THAT IS BECAUSE OF HER DELIGHTFUL MIX OF WICKEDNESS AND SWEETNESS AND SIN AND PLEASURE AND HER GENERAL YUMMINESS.

The caption changes to "Audrey Van der Stoop. Friend."

Audrey, in her thirties, with long blond hair, says TAKING MY FRIEND'S ADVICE EVERY OTHER DAY.

Inside the karaoke bar, the women sing
WANT TO BE FREE TO FEEL THE WAY I FEEL
MAN, I FEEL LIKE A WOMAN

Josey says THE ADVICE I WOULD GIVE PEOPLE IN TERMS OF LOOKING FOR LOVE IS MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO COMPLETE YOU OR TO GET RID OF YOUR LONELINESS. LOOK FOR SOMEONE WHO CAN A PARTNER TO YOU, WHO IS ABLE TO SPEND THE TIME GETTING TO KNOW YOU, TREAT YOU WITH RESPECT, UNDERSTAND YOU AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO DO THE SAME FOR THEM.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Mary says JOSIE IS HERE WITH US NOW, LIVE IN THE STUDIO, READY TO TAKE YOUR CALLS. SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT LOVE, FINDING IT, MAYBE HOW TO GET A DATE FOR HEAVENS SAKE, OR IF YOU HAVE A AMUSING EXPERIENCE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE, GIVE US A CALL.

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
Then, it changes to "moretolife@tvo.org"

Mary says WELCOME, JOSIE.

Josey says HELLO. HOW ARE YOU.

Mary says YOU HAVE FLOWN IN.

Josey says YES.

Mary says YOU WERE SAYING YOUR MOTHER DOESN'T HAVE CABLE BUT I AM SURE SHE SAW THE SHOW.

The caption changes to "Josie Vogels. Dating/Relationship Columnist."

Josey says SHE HAS. SHE MOVED INTO A HOUSE WHERE SHE HAS CABLE. I'M TERRIFIED. [LAUGHTER] SHE HAS SEEN THE SHOW. HE HAS READ ALL MY BOOKS. SHE IS A HUGE SUPPORTER OF ME. SHE DOESN'T NECESSARILY ALWAYS FEEL GREAT ABOUT THE STUFF THAT I WRITE ABOUT, NOT THAT SHE DOESN'T THINK ITS A GOOD THING. SHE COMES FROM A CONSERVATIVE BACKGROUND, GREW UP IN EUROPE, DURING THE WAR. SHE IS CATHOLIC. SO I THINK SOME OF THE STUFF IS HARD TO EXPLAIN TO HER FRIENDS AT CHURCH SOMETIMES.

Mary says YEAH. YOU GREW UP CATHOLIC TOO. HOW DO YOU SHED THAT STUFF?

Josey says I DON'T KNOW. ITS A THING WITH CATHOLICS. ONCE YOU LET GO, ITS LIKE PAN DOR RA'S BOX, YOU GO TO THE OTHER EXTREME. YOU BREAK OUT.

Mary says TODAY IS VALENTINE'S DAY. I'M WONDERING IS THIS A SPECIAL DAY FOR YOU? OR IS IT A DAY LIKE ANY OTHER?

Josey says BECAUSE OF MUR JOB OH.
MY PARTNER GETS RIPPED OFF BECAUSE I'M LIKE SANTA AT CHRISTMAS, DURING VALENTINE'S DAY, I DO INTERVIEWS, LOTS OF ENGAGEMENTS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE ME SPEAK. SO I TEND TO BE CRAZY BUSY DURING VALUEN TINS WEEK. BUT ITS GENERALLY A TIME WHERE I LIKE TO TAKE THE TIME WITH MY PARTNER. PEOPLE GET SIN CALL AND SAY ITS A HALLMARK HOLIDAY, JUST TO SELL STUFF. I THINK WHAT IS WRONG WITH A DAY WHERE YOU ARE FORCED TO SPEND QUALITY TIME WITH YOUR PARTNER? NO ONE IS SAYING ITS THE ONLY DAY BUT I THINK ITS GREAT.

Mary says IF YOU HAVE A PARTNER, OF COURSE. I HAVE TO ASK YOU BECAUSE YOU KNOW A LOT OF SINGLE PEOPLE, I DO TOO. THEY ARE OUT THERE. THIS HOLIDAY, MAYBE NEXT TO CHRISTMAS, IT CAN'T BE A VERY UP LIFTING TIME.

The caption changes to "Today's topic: Dating and relationships."

Josey says DEFINITELY. I DID ALL THE SINGLE PEOPLE A FAVOUR AND DID A ANTIVALENTINE'S COLUMN. I GAVE HORRIBLE STORIES

Mary says GIVE HE A HORROR STORY.

Josey says LET ME THINK. I CAN'T THINK

Mary says ARE THESE LIKE HORROR DATING STORIES?

The phone numbers email reappear briefly.

Josey says YEAH. WHERE PEOPLE GOT... SOMEONE BROKE UP WITH THEM... THIS GUY HAD A DATE BUT HAD HAD AN AFFAIR THE NIGHT BEFORE AND HAD A HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON E ON HIS NECK SO HE HAD TO LIKE... MAKE DINNER FOR HIS BOYFRIEND IN A TURTLENECK SO HE WOULDN'T SEE. HE WAS HOT IN THE KITCHEN. WHEN THE BOYFRIEND LEFT HE WAS FANNING THE SHIRT OPEN TO COOL DOWN.

Mary says COULDN'T TAKE IT OFF.

Josey says LATER HE WAS LIKE WANTING TO FOOL AROUND IN THE DARK. SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A BIG ORDEAL. THAT STUFF WHERE IT GOES WRONG I THINK, ITS GOOD TO HEAR THAT. WE HAVE A NOTION OF PER AFFECT LOVE ON VALENTINE'S DAY, ITS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.

Mary says WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SINGLE PEOPLE? SHOULD THEY DO SOMETHING TODAY OR IGNORE IT?

Josey says A LOT OF PEOPLE IGNORE IT. WHEN I WAS SINGLE I DID SOMETHING WITH OTHER SINGLE FRIENDS. I THINK VALENTINE'S DAY... I DON'T JUST SEND VALUEN TINS TO MY BOY FRIEND, I SEND THEM TO FRIENDS. I LOVE MY FRIENDS TOO. ITS ABOUT LOVE. I HAVE GREAT FRIENDS. SO I SEE IT AS A TIME TO SHARE, YOU KNOW... LET PEOPLE THAT YOU CARE ABOUT KNOW YOU CARE.

Mary says IT WAS INTERESTING WHAT YOU WERE SAYING AT THE END. YOU HAD SOME ADVICE ABOUT YOU KNOW WHEN PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE LOOKING FOR A PARTNER, RIGHT, DON'T LET IT COME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT'S LONELINESS.

Josey says YES.

Mary says WHICH I THOUGHT WAS GREAT. WHAT IF YOU ARE JUST LOOKING FOR A DATE?

Josey says I THINK IF YOU ARE JUST LOOKING FOR A DATE, MAKE IT THAT. THE MISTAKE A LOT OF PEOPLE MAKE IS THEY THINK THEY ARE CASUAL AND THEY ARE JUST DATING BUT IN THEIR MIND THEY DO HAVE AN A DEN DA. I THINK GOING IN WITHOUT THE AGENDA AND THE LIST AND THE EXPECTATIONS SAYING I'M GOING TO GO OUT, HAVE A GOOD PERSON, GET TO KNOW THEM, WHETHER IT TURNS INTO ANYTHING DOESN'T MATTER.

Mary says IS THAT HARD?

Josey says ITS VERY HARD. WE ALL HOPE THAT THEY WILL BE THE PERSON. EACH IF WE THINK I DON'T HAVE EXPECTATIONS, YOU DO. OF YOURS YOU HAVE GOING TO HAVE EXPECTATIONS. ITS A QUESTION OF KNOWING THAT IN YOUR MIND GOING I'M NOT GOING TO LET MY EXPECTATIONS GET THE BETTER OF ME.

Mary says WHAT ABOUT AS FAR AS WHERE TO GO? PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK YOU THIS TOO. WHAT DO YOU SAY TODAY? WHERE DO YOU GO TO MEET PEOPLE?

Josey says I ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THIS AND PEOPLE WANT ME TO GIVE THEM

Mary says THE EXACT LOCATION?

Josey says YES. [LAUGHTER] I ALWAYS SAY MAN I WISH I HAD THE SECRET ROOM WHERE ALL THE GREAT SINGLE PEOPLE WERE HIDING OUT.

Mary says YOU NOTICE EVERYBODY IS A GREAT SINGLE PERSON BUT YOU CAN'T FIND THE RIGHT PERSON TO GO WITH THAT ONE.

Josey says YES. I HAVE FABULOUS SINGLE FRIENDS. I THINK, YOU KNOW, I LIKEN IT TO THE JOB SEARCH. WE FIND JOBS IN DIFFERENT WAYS. YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. FOR SOME PEOPLE IT MIGHT BE ONLINE BECAUSE THEY ARE SHY ABOUT MEETING PEOPLE AND ONLINE IS A GREAT SAFE WAY FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR OWN HOME THAT YOU CAN EXPERIMENT.

Mary says YOU SAY SAFE, AND I KNOW WOMEN ARE HUNG UP ABOUT THE SAFETY FACTOR. IS IT SAFE? I DON'T KNOW. THEY CAN MAKE UP WHO THEY ARE. WHAT ABOUT WHEN I MEET THEM, HOW SAFE IS THAT?

Josey says WHEN YOU GO ON A DATE WITH SOMEONE FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU MET THROUGH A FRIEND, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT REALLY GOES ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS OR WHATEVER. I THINK THAT WE SORT OF OVER PLAY THE DANGER OF THE INTERNET. OF COURSE, MEETING STRANGERS IS A DANGEROUS THING. DO IT IN PUBLIC. MAKE SURE THE FIRST TIME YOU MEET IS IN PUBLIC. YOU CAN DO BACKGROUND CHECKS ON PEOPLE ONLINE. IN SOME WAYS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT SAFETY, THERE ARE THINGS IN PLACE THAT MAKE IT MORE SAFE. YOU CAN SPEND A LOT OF TIME E-MAILING AND GETTING TO KNOW THEM, MAKE SURE THEY SEND PHOTOS.

Mary says DO YOU NOT GIVE YOUR REAL NAME?

Josey says I WOULD OPEN LIKE A HOT MAIL ACCOUNT OR SOMETHING WHERE THEY CAN'T TRACK YOU DOWN TO YOUR HOME. THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ARE SAFETY MEASURES YOU CAN PUT IN PLACE. THERE IS NO GUARANTEES WHEN IT COMES TO DATING. ITS A CRAP SHOOT IN MANY WAYS. THERE ARE DANGERS INVOLVED. YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM REAL DANGER AND EMOTIONALLY.

Mary says LET ME REMIND OUR VIEWERS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DATING, RELATIONSHIPS.

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Mary says I'M THINKING MAYBE YOU HAVE A SPECIAL VALENTINE'S DAY CELEBRATION, SOMETHING UNIQUE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE. LET'S TAKE A CALL. HI.

The Caller says HI. JOSIE SAID THAT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO FIND SOMEBODY TO COMPLETE YOU OR FILL YOUR LONELINESS. I KIND OF THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LOOK FOR. AM I WRONG?

Josey says WELL, WHEN I SAY THAT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT DON'T MAKE THAT YOUR ONLY GOAL. I THINK IF YOU GO IN WITH THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE IS GOING TO COMPLETE YOU OR FULFILL YOUR LONELINESS, THEN YOU ARE PUTTING A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THAT PERSON TO DO THINGS FOR YOU YOU SHOULD BE DOING FOR YOURSELF. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU... I THINK OF IT INSTEAD OF COMPLETING YOU THEY SHOULD COMPLIMENT YOU. SOMEONE WHO FITS IN WITH ALL OF YOUR NEEDS AP WANTS AND UNDERSTANDS YOUR NEEDS AN WANTS. BUT YOU DON'T NEED THEM TO DO IT FOR YOU. KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

The Caller says YEAH.

Mary says ONE OF MY RESEARCHERS DID THE PIECE ON YOU, SHE SAID SOMETHING INTERESTING. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WOMEN AND THE DIFFICULTY OF MEETING SOMEBODY, SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO YOU WANT TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP. SHE WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'VE GOT IT PRETTY GOOD, YOU'VE GOT A GOOD JOB, GREAT FRIENDS, LOTS OF INTERESTS, YOU HAVE A FULL SOCIAL LIFE, YOU LOOK... YOU ARE DATING DIFFERENT GUYS AND YOU THINK TO YOURSELF, IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING REALLY PRETTY GOOD FOR ME TO GIVE UP WHAT I ALREADY HAVE. NOT IN THE SENSE OF GIVE UP. GO TO SOMETHING NEW. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? DOES THAT MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR WOMEN AS WELL?

Josey says ABSOLUTELY M I HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME. PEOPLE SAY WOMEN ARE TOO PICKY, EXPECTATIONS ARE TOO HIGH. I THINK WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO? SETTLE FOR SOMETHING THAT IS OKAY? OF COURSE NOT. I THINK ITS CHANGED. I THINK WOMEN HAVE CREATED A LOT OF FULFILLMENT IN THEIR LIFE, THROUGH JOB, FRIENDS, OTHER ACTIVITIES. ITS HARD TO FIT IN A RELATIONSHIP. THAT DOESN'T MEAN AT THE ENDS OF THE DAY, WE STILL WANT SOMEBODY THAT WE HAVE THAT... THAT IS IN OUR LIFE THAT GIVES THAT EMOTIONAL SATISFACTION. SEX IS NICE ONCE IN A WHILE TOO. SO I THINK IT BECOMES MORE DIFFICULT TO FIND A MAN WHO CAN MEET THE CHALLENGES. BECAUSE ITS CHANGED. WOMEN ARE NOT LOOKING FOR A MAN TO PROVIDE FOR THEM, WHO THEY CAN TAKE CARE OF. SO, YEAH, YOU NEED A MAN WHO IS STRONG ENOUGH TO STAND HIS OWN AND TO BE ABLE TO COMPLIMENT YOUR LIFE AND BECOME PART OF THAT LIFE WITHOUT YOU HAVING TO GIVE UP A LOT. THERE IS SOME COMPROMISE.

Mary says BUT WORKS BOTH WAYS. HE NEEDS SOMETHING TO COMPLIMENT. HE HAS NEEDS AND WHATEVER.

Josey says I THINK THE MODEL OF RELATIONSHIPS IS CHANGING. YOU HAVE... NOT EVERYONE... YOU STILL FIND PEOPLE WHO MARRY YOUNG WITH TRADITIONAL RELATIONSHIPS. THOSE OF US WHO WAIT UNTIL LATER AND HAVE STRONG INDEPENDENT PERSONALITIES, TRYING TO FINDS OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THAT, ITS GOING TO BE A LONGER HAUL AND MORE DIFFICULT. THE MODEL OF RELATIONSHIP IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE ADJUSTED TO FIT THAT MORE. ITS NOT GOING TO BE THE EXPECTATION THAT EVERY FRIDAY AN SATURDAY WE HAVE TO GO OUT. I HAVE TO SEE YOU EVERY NIGHT. I THINK YOU CREATE DIFFERENT ARRANGEMENTS.

Mary says LET'S HEAR FROM ANOTHER CALLER NOW. KAREN FROM OTTAWA.

The Caller says HI. MY FIANCÉ AND I ARE GETTING MARRIED IN AUGUST. RIGHT NOW OUR RELATIONSHIP IS FANTASTIC. WE ARE BEST FRIENDS. EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE GOING GREAT. I REALLY WANT THAT CONTINUE FOR 50 OR 60 YEARS TO BE THAT OLD CUTE COUPLE WHEN WE ARE OLD. I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN THINK OF ANY WAYS TO KEEP THAT SPARK ALIVE, TO KEEP OUR RELATIONSHIP THE WAY IT IS NOW.

Mary says WE ARE WAITING FOR THAT.

Josey says IF I HAD THE SECRET FORMULA I WOULD BE A BILLIONAIRE. CONGRATULATIONS BY THE WAY. I THINK ITS GREAT WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT BEING BEST FRIENDS, ITS IMPORTANT TO A RELATIONSHIP. I THINK A LOT OF US ARE HUNG UP ON THE CHEM INDUSTRY, OF COURSE CHEM INDUSTRY HAS TO BE THERE BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT IS THE PASSION SUBSIDING, IF YOU ARE NOT FRIENDS WITH THE PERSON, THEN YOU KNOW ITS NOT GOING TO LAST. IF YOU THINK... I ALWAYS THINK IN TERMS OF LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS. AS MUCH AS WE WOULD LIKE TO THINK YOU ARE GOING TO BE WITH THIS PERSON FOREVER, NO ONE CAN PREDICT WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BRING. I THINK THE BEST WAY IS TO NOT PUT THAT PRESSURE ON THE RELATIONSHIP, THAT IF THIS DOESN'T LAST UNTIL WE ARE OLD, WE ARE IN TROUBLE. FOCUS ON WEEK BY WEEK, MONTH BY MONTH, BEING THERE. BEING FRIENDS WITH EACH OTHER. NOT EVER TAKING EACH OTHER FOR GRANTED IN THAT WAY IS THE MOST YOU CAN DO.

Mary says INTERESTING. AS MUCH AS YOU FOCUS ON SEX IN YOUR COLUMN, ON THE SHOW, IN THE END, ITS NOT REALLY ABOUT SEX.

Josey says I THINK ITS ABOUT intimacy. THAT IS FRIENDSHIP, PHYSICAL INTIMACY, COMMUNICATION, ITS TOUCH. ITS BEING CONNECTED. FEEL CONNECTED TO ANOTHER PERSON IN A DEEP MEANINGFUL WAY. HAVING THEM KNOW YOU AND YOU KNOW THEM.

Mary says ITS INTERESTING WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT YOUR PIECE AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP THAT YOU ARE IN NOW, ITS BEEN A FEW YEARS?

Josey says WE CAN'T KEEP TRACK BECAUSE WE ARE NOT SURE WHEN IT STARTED. LIKE FIVE YEARS.

Mary says YOU SAID IT CAME OUT OF FRIENDSHIP AND IT WAS MORE LIKE A SLOW BURN RATHER THAN THAT SPARK. THAT FIRE.

Josey says YES. IT WAS FUNNY. WE WERE A SLOW BURN, THEN CAME THE SPARK. I THINK WE ARE ALL ADDICTED TO THAT. ITS LIKE A DRUG. ITS WONDERFUL TO FEEL THAT ABSOLUTE BURNING PASSION FOR SOMEONE WHERE YOU CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT THEM AND THEY ARE ALWAYS ON YOUR MIND. EVERY WAKING MOMENT YOU ARE WAITING UNTIL YOU SEE THEM. WHICH IS FUN. BUT MAN ITS EXHAUSTING. IF YOU DON'T BUILD SOMETHING TO LAND ON WHEN THAT SUBSIDES, YOU WILL BE IN TROUBLE BECAUSE YOU COME UP AND GO, WHO IS THIS PERSON? DO I KNOW THEM? DO THEY KNOW ME? WHEN YOU START TO SHOW THE FLAWS, HOW WILL THAT GO OVER. THAT IS THE MAKE OF BREAK POINT. YOU SEE THE SOFT WHITE UNDER BELLY AND PEOPLE GO, I AM NOT SURE I LIKE THAT. BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T KIND OF GOT TO KNOW THAT ABOUT THEM SLOWLY AND WORKED THROUGH IT, IT CAN FALL APART.

Mary says TWO PEOPLE CAN BE VERY DIFFERENT IN THAT INITIAL STAGE.

Josey says I THINK WE ARE ALL ON OUR BEST BEHAVIOR, TRYING TO GIVE THE BEST IMPRESSION. YOU ARE SAYING THINGS ABOUT YOURSELF THAT YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU BELIEVE. BUT YOU WANT THIS PERSON TO HAVE AN IMAGE OF YOU SO YOU BUILD THIS IMAGE. ONCE THAT... ONCE REALITY SETS IN, IT CAN BE DIFFICULT.

Mary says DO YOU BELIEVE IN LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT?

Josey says THEY TELL ME IT HAPPENS. I HAVE HEARD STORIES WHERE THEY HAVENED UP MARRY BEEN TOGETHER FOR YEARS. I THINK ITS MORE RARE THAN, YOU KNOW, THAN THE OTHER VERSION.

Mary says THAN THE SLOW BURN?

Josey says YES. IT DOES HAPPEN. THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO MET AND JUST KNEW THIS IS THE PERSON I'M GOING TO BE WITH. GOOD FOR THEM. I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN THAT BASKET THOUGH. I'M cynical ABOUT LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT.

Mary says WOULDN'T MIND HEARING FROM THOSE PEOPLE. LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL. LIZ IS ON THE LINE FROM MISSSAW GA.

The Caller says MY QUESTION IS HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THE RULES?

Josey says WHO HASN'T.

The Caller says OKAY. DO YOU THINK THERE IS A PARTICULAR WAY THAT GUYS SHOULD APPROACH WOMEN WHEN THEY ASK THEM OUT ON DATES? I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE RULES AND IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE WORKING THAT WELL. THE GUYS SAY I'M TIRED OF HEAD GAMES. MORE GUYS HAVE HEARD ABOUT THIS. SOMETHING IS MISSING THERE.

Mary says GIVE US IN A NUTSHELL.

Josey says THE RULES WERE A BOOK THAT CAME OUT YEARS AGO. THE FUNNY THING IS THE TWO WOMEN WHO WROTE IT LATER WERE SUPPOSED TO COME OUT WITH A BOOK LIKE HOW TO MAKE A marriage WORK. BEFORE THE BOOK CAME OUT, ONE OF THE WOMEN GOT DIVORCED. THE RULES WAS BOILED DOWN TO PLAY HARD TO GET. THEY HAD RULES LIKE DON'T STAY ON THE PHONE... KEEP A TIMER BY THE PHONE SO YOU DON'T STAY ON LONGER THAN SO MANY MINUTES. NEVER RETURN HIS CALLS. MAKE HIM CALL YOU.

Mary says DON'T ACCEPT A DATE PAST WEDNESDAY.

Josey says YES. BASICALLY A THROW BACK TO 50s STYLE DATING WHERE THE MAN WAS THE PURE SUER AND THE WOMAN SAT AND WAITED AND DID HER BEST TO BE... YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE TOO FUNNY, MAKE HIM FEEL IN CHARGE. ON A CERTAIN LEVEL THAT WORKS, PLAY HARD TO GET? EVERYONE LOVES A CHALLENGE. PEOPLE LOVE IT WHEN SOMEONE IS NOT AVAILABLE. HOW EXCITING. BUT ITS NOT HOW YOU FIND SOMEBODY WHO WILL BE EQUAL AND DESCENT PARTNER TO YOU. IF YOU WANT THAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP, A TRADITIONAL GENDER-ROLED RELATIONSHIP WHERE THE MAN IS THE BOSS AND THE FEMALE IS HIS SERVANT OR WHATEVER, ITS NOT THAT BAD BUT I THINK THAT COULD WORK FOR YOU. BUT IF YOU WANT EQUAL PARTNERSHIP, ITS SILLY. AND AS YOU SAY, GUYS DON'T WANT HEAD GAMES. NEITHER DO WOMEN.

Mary says WHAT KNOW WHAT SURPRISES ME ABOUT THE BOOM IS THE... BOOK IS THE NUMBER OF YOUNG WOMEN, WOMEN IN THEIR 20s, WHO I THOUGHT GROWING UP IN A DIFFERENT GENERATION, EQUALITY AMONG SECS, WORKING WITH CAREERS, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE THOUGHT DON'T PLAY HEAD GAMES. YET THEY EMBRACED THAT THINKING. I WAS SURPRISED.

Josey says I DID BUT I WASN'T THAT SURPRISED BECAUSE I GUESS FROM MY TALKING TO SO MANY PEOPLE WE SO DESPERATELY WANT A SIMPLE ANSWER. WE WANT SOMEONE TO TELL US THE RULES. WHEN YOU ASKED HOW DO YOU MEET PEOPLE, PEOPLE WANT ME TO SAY GO HERE, THIS ADDRESS, YOU WILL MEET THIS PERSON. I THINK WE GET YOUNGER WOMEN FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MEETING THE KIND OF MEN THEY WOULD LIKE TO MEET. THEY ARE DESPERATELY LOOKING. WHAT IS WRONG? MAYBE WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MODEL? MAYBE THE LIB RATING THINKING IS GETTING US IN TROUBLE. I THINK ITS MOVING FURTHER BACK INSTEAD OF GOING YEAH, ITS TOUGH TO FIND THE GUYS WHO CAN BE STRONG ENOUGH TO BE THE PARTNER THAT YOU NEED IN YOUR LIFE AND WHO ISN'T INTIMIDATED BY YOU BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE EQUAL PARTNER. THAT IS A MUCH HARDER THING TO ACCOMPLISH. THAT FORCES YOU TO ASSERT YOURSELF IN THE SITUATION. AS YOU CAN SEE, AS YOU MENTIONED, EVENTUALLY A LOT OF THE WOMEN REALIZE THAT IT DOESN'T WORK.

Mary says LET'S TAKE AN E-MAIL. A 23-YEAR-OLD GIRL ONLINE HERE, WOMAN.

Mary reads from a laptop screen and says I FINE IT DIFFICULT TO MEET MEN NOT BECAUSE I'M SHY BUT MORE BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT ALL THE DESEND SINGLE GUYS SEEM TO HAVE GIRLFRIENDS ALREADY. I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT I'M ATTRACTIVE AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY I'M SINGLE. I'M BEGINNING TO THINK THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH ME BECAUSE WHEN I GET A DATE, IT NEVER CONTINUES ON TO A SEC DATE. DO YOU THINK SOMEONE CAN BE TOO PICKY?

Josey says I GO BACK TO WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY TOO PICKY? I THINK AT 23 I THINK YOU ARE STILL OKAY. YOU ARE STILL EARLY IN THE GAME. I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH HER. I'M SURE THERE ISN'T. IN TERMS OF ONLY MEETING THE NICE GUYS ALREADY WITH GIRLFRIENDS, WHENEVER YOU ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP, ITS EASY TO MEET PEOPLE. BECAUSE THE STRESS IS GONE. THE PRESSURE IS GONE. YOU ARE YOURSELF. YOU... THERE IS NO EXPECTATIONS. I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO MEN OUT THERE WHO ARE PURSUING WOMEN... BECAUSE LET'S FACE IT WE ARE STILL IN THE MODEL WHERE MEN ARE SADDLED WITH RESPONSIBILITY OF APPROACHING, THEY ARE LOOKING TO ACHIEVE A GROL. THEY WANT TO GET IN WITH YOU. SO A LOT OF TIMES THEY ARE NOT ACTING THEMSELVES. THEY ARE PUTTING ON CHARGE AND ITS A TURN OUT OF TO WOMEN. HOW MANY WOMEN DO YOU KNOW THAT A GUY APPROACHES THEM AND THEY CLAM UP AND DO THIS AND THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED BECAUSE THE GUY IS TRYING TOO HASHED HARD.

Mary says ONE OF YOUR BOOKS I REMEMBER READING THAT FOR GIRLS THEY ARE STILL IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT. WHERE IF YOU HAVE A GIRL THAT APPROACHES A GUY, THEY ARE STUNNED. THEY THINK IT MUST BE SOMEBODY ELSE. CAN'T BE THEM.

Josey says YES. SOME GUYS SAY THEY WANT MINIMUM TO MORE ASSERTIVE BUT WHEN A WOMAN DOES THAT, THEY THINK IS SHE DESPERATE? THERE IS STILL A DOUBLE STANDARD THERE. ALSO...

Mary says YOU THINK THAT IS GENETICS?

Josey says WELL SOME WILL SAY THAT BECAUSE MEN HAVE TO SPREAD THEIR SEED AND WOMEN ARE THE NURTURERS, HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE WHO IS A SOLID GOOD FATHER TO THEIR CHILDREN WE WILL KIND OF BE MORE SELECT I'VE ABOUT WHO WE PICK WHEREAS MEN JUST WAND AS MANY WOMEN AS POSSIBLE. I HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THAT. WE ARE NOT LUGGING BEAVER PELTS AROUND ANYMORE.

Mary says WE ARE STILL HAVING CHILDREN. THEY ARE NOT.

Josey says YES. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF IT IS BIOLOGICAL BECAUSE THERE IS SOME THAT IS CONDITIONING. YOUNG GIRS ARE TAUGHT TO HANG ON TO THEIR VIRGIN TI, ITS PRECIOUS YOU ONLY SHARE WITH SOMEONE SPECIAL. WOMEN ARE TAUGHT TO BE PROPER ABOUT SEX ALT... SEX YOU ALT. WHEREAS MEN, HEY, SCORING IS LIKE GET YOU IN WITH THE GUYS. THOSE DOUBLE STANDARDS STILL EXIST. GIRLS AN MEN STILL CALL EACH OTHER SLUTS IN HIGH SCHOOL. I THOUGHT WE WOULD BE OVER THAT BY NOW.

Mary says LET'S TAKE SOME MORE CALLS. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS TODAY. ITS VALENTINE'S DAY. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP, GIVE US A CALL.

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Mary says WE HAVE Steve ON THE LINE. HI.

The Caller says I'M IN LOVE. ITS BEEN A DIFFICULT TIME AT TIMES. I WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAD LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT BUT IT SEEMS THAT LOVE GROWS AS THE RELATIONSHIP GOES. ITS A FAIRLY NEW RELATIONSHIP. I'M HAPPY TO BE IN LOVE AS OPPOSED TO BEING ALONE M I HAVEN'T SPENT A LOT OF TIME LOOKING FOR LOVE. I WAITED FOR IT TO COME TO ME. IT SEEMS THAT IS THE BETTER WAY. EVERY TIME I TRY TO DATE, THERE WERE TOO MANY REASONS TO KNOCK IT DOWN, NOT HAVE FAITH, NOT HAVE HOPE. KEEPING THE FAITH AND THE HOPE SEEMS TO BE WHAT GIVES IT THE STRENGTH, EVEN THROUGH THE ROUGH TIMES.

Mary says STEVE, YOU SAY YOU WAITED FOR IT TO COME TO YOU. HOW DID YOU MEET YOUR LOVE INTEREST?

Josey says WE MET AS FRIENDS 2 and a half YEARS AGO. THEN WE MET AGAIN ACTUALLY AT A MEETING FOR PEOPLE WITH ADD DICK SHUNS PROBLEMS. FROM THERE, WE WENT APART FROM THAT MEETING AND SPENT TIME DISCUSSING WHAT IT WAS WE WANTED OUT OF LIFE AND ENDED UP TOGETHER.

Mary says JOSIE DO YOU HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHERE PASSION GROWS OUT OF FRIENDSHIP? AS IN YOUR CASE.

Josey says YES. THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO TELL ME THE PERSON THEY ENDED UP IS SO FAR FROM THE PERSON THEY EXPECTED

Mary says SO FAR

Josey says YES.

Mary says YOU HEAR THAT A LOT?

Josey says A LOT. A LOT. THEY SAY I NEVER EXPECTED TO BE WITH SOMEONE LIKE HIM SHL OR HER.

Mary says WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT OUR PICKINESS?

Josey says WE HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC IDEA ABOUT WHAT WE WANT. A LOT OF US GO INTO DATING WITH A LIST, YOU KNOW. 200 ITEM LIST. I THINK WHAT IT SAYS IS IF YOU KIND OF LET GO OF THAT STUFF AND OPEN UP TO POSSIBILITY AND REALIZE THAT MAYBE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS... WHEN YOU GO OUTLOOKING FOR THAT PERFECT DRESS. YOU SAY I KNOW WHAT I WANT ITS THIS, THIS, THIS. THEN YOU GO OUT WITH A FRIEND AND THEY SAY JUST TRY THIS. YOU GO, NO, ITS NOT WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. THEN YOU TRY IT ON AND NEVER REALIZED THAT CUT LOOKS GREAT ON YOU. YOU NEVER LET YOURSELF TRY. SOMETIMES I THINK THAT HAPPENS IN DATING. YOU REALIZE SOMEBODY YOU DIDN'T THINK WOULD BE A FIT IS BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T KNOW YOURSELF THAT WELL.

Mary says SO ABSOLUTELY BE OPEN TO NEW EXPERIENCES?

Josey says YES. ONE THING HE SAID ABOUT LETTING LOVE COME TO HIM, JUST LETTING... JUST... BEING IN A PLACE WHERE YOU ARE RECEPTIVE TO LOVE. I THINK SO MANY OF US, PEOPLE SAY I WASN'T LOOKING FOR IT. THAT IS WHEN I FOUND IT. BECAUSE YOU ARE RELAXED, NOT WORRYING, NOT ON ALL THE TIME WORRYING THAT EVERYTHING COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH WILL IMPRESS THIS PERSON OR NOT. JUST BEING YOURSELF. HARD TO DO.

Mary says IT IS. ITS HARD TO DO. I THINK FOR WOMEN AGAIN, VERY HAR WHEN THEY ARE REACHING THAT AGE AND THAT CLOCK IS TICKING. ITS HARD TO GET AWAY FROM THAT.

Josey says IT IS. THAT IS A PRESSURE THAT WOMEN FACE THAT MEN DON'T. BUT I THINK ITS CHANGING TOO. A LOT OF WOMEN ARE CHOOSING NOT TO HAVE KIDS. OTHER WOMEN ARE CHOOSING OTHER WAYS TO HAVE KIDS. TO DO IT ON THEIR OWN OR WITH A NETWORK OF FRIENDS OR SOMETHING ELSE. WE ALL KNOW THAT WANTING TO HAVE KIDS IS NO REASON TO SETTLE FOR SOMETHING OR GO OUT AND IN SERVE OF THE PERFECT PARTNER. ITS NOT GOING TO WORK THAT WAY.

Mary says LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL.

The Caller says I THINK SOMETIMES WHEN WE HAVE PRESSURES AND EXPECTATIONS FROM EACH TO THEY ARE THAN THE PARTNERSHIP OR THE FRIENDSHIP TO BEGIN WITH FALLS APART. BUT IF BOTH OF US WALK INTO A RELATIONSHIP WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATIONS, AS JUST THE BASICS OF MEETING SOMEONE THAT I WOULD LIKE ONE DAY TO BECOME PARTNERS OR SOMETHING, THEN WOULD THIS BE HELPFUL? OR AM I OPTIMISTIC?

Josey says I THINK ITS HELPFUL. ITS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS GO IN WITH AN OPEN MIND AND HEART AND SAY, HEY, I JUST AM CURIOUS WHO YOU ARE, WANT TO GET TO KNOW YOU. LET'S TALK AND SEE WHERE IT GOES. NOT BE HAVING THIS, LIKE, MENTAL SCRIPT GOING ON IN YOUR MIND. LOOKING AT HIM, OKAY, IMAGINE WHAT HUR KIDS WOULD LOOK LIKE. HIS EYES? I DON'T KNOW. SOUNDS RIDICULOUS BUT WE DO THAT WHEN WE ARE OUT WITH SOMEONE. YOUR MIND STARTS GOING AND YOU FANTASIZE ABOUT YOURSELF THE CUTE OLD COUPLE.

Mary says YOU DISPENSE SO MUCH ADVICE TO PEOPLE. WHAT KIND OF RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU FEEL?

Josey says I FEEL RESPONSIBILITY. I'M NOT a PSYCHOLOGIST. I'M NOT A THERAPIST. I'M JUST SOMEONE WHO HAS WRITTEN ABOUT THIS FOR EIGHT YEARS AND TALKED BT IT AND HAD EXPERIENCES. BUT AS I SAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN, I THINK ITS WHERE WE GET MOST OF OUR INFORMATION AND ADD VICE IS FROM TALKING TO FRIENDS. I AM NOT SAYING ANYTHING THAT PEOPLE DON'T ALREADY KNOW. ITS JUST THAT I THINK WE NEED TO HEAR IT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. WE NEED TO HEAR IT FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. THINK I THINK I AM ABLE TO OFFER INSIGHT. BUT ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, REALLY.

Mary says WHAT GETS IN THE WAY? ITS STUFF THAT WE KNOW, MAYBE BUT WHAT IS GETTING THE WAY?

Josey says OUR HEARTS AND LIBIDOS. [LAUGHTER] THE FACT THAT WE WANT IT NOW. WE WANT ALL... WE WANT THE HAPPY RELATIONSHIP, WE WANT IT ALL TO FALL INTO PLACE EASILY. WHEN IT DOESN'T, WE RUN SCARED OR WE START ACTING CRAZY.

Mary says LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL. HI.

The Caller says HI. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION. WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO HAVE A BETTER RELATION WITH MY WIFE? WE HAVE A PROBLEM. WE FIGHT... SHE COME FROM WORK, WHEN SHE GET HOME, THE FIRST TWO MINUTES, ONE THING TO ANOTHER, IT SPARKS. SHE IS SCREAMING AND SCREAMING. SOMETIMES I TRY TO EXPLAIN, I GO MY WAY. THIS IS GOING FOR A LONG TIME. I SPOKE TO MY DOCTOR. HE DIDN'T HELP ME MUCH. I LOOKING WHO CAN HELP ME?

Josey says I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT KINDS OF THINGS YOU FIGHT ABOUT.

The Caller says FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW THOSE THINGS WE PUT ON THE TABLE? KPAEM APPROXIMATELY. THE PLATES. THE PLATES. CAN I PUT THOSE ONES BEFORE DINNER? NO, NO, NO. NOT NECESSARY. SO I TAKE THEM AWAY. SHE COME BACK. I SAID I TOLD YOU PUT THEM YOU SAID NO. THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, ITS SO MANY THINGS. SOMETIMES I ASK MYSELF IS IT GOOD PLACE? I TOLD HER IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY, GO SPLIT. GO YOUR WAY, I GO MY WAY. IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE ALL THE YEARS WE ARE MARRIED AND HAVE THREE KIDS. I AM PATIENT. I DON'T WANT THE KIDS GET HURT.

Josey says IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE ARGUING ABOUT LITTLE THINGS. TO ME WHENEVER THAT IS GOING ON OFTEN THERE IS SOMETHING UNDER LYING THAT THE PARTNER IS FRUSTRATED ABOUT WITHIN THE RELATIONSHIP. IT COULD BE AS MUCH AS COMING HOME FROM WORK BEING STRESSED, NEEDING SOME TIME TO... WE HAVE A RULE IN OUR HOUSE, COMING HOME FROM WORK, THERE NEEDS TO BE LIKE BEING NICE TO EACH OTHER TIME E ITS NOT COMING HOME UNLOADING YOUR DAY, WHY DIDN'T YOU DO THIS? ITS LIKE NICE TO SEE YOU, LET'S RECONNECT HERE. THEN ONCE WE ARE RELAXED... YOU ARE STRESSED, YOU WANT TO CHILL OUT. WHEN THERE IS SOMEONE THERE, IT DOESN'T ALWAYS MESH. SO GIVING EACH OTHER TIME TO SETTLE IN AND BE HOME. IF THERE ARE THING THAT IS ARE PROBLEMS, TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THEM NOT FROM A PHRASE OF ANGER, JUST BE ABLE TO ASK EACH OTHER, WELL, I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE THE PLATES WE SHOULD USE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, TALK TO EACH OTHER TO FIND OUT IF THERE IS NOT SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON.

Mary says WE ARE ALL OUT OF TIME HERE.

Josey says ALREADY?

Mary says ALREADY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN.

Josey says GREAT TO BE HERE.

Mary says HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY.

Josey says YOU TOO.

A slate reads "Josey Vogels, www.mymessybedroom.com"

Mary says LET'S CHECK OUT WHAT SOME OF YOU HAD TO SAY ABOUT VALENTINE'S DAY.

A clip plays on screen in which a reporter interviews people on the streets.

A young man with dark hair and glasses says I LIKE VALENTINE'S DAY. ITS ONLY ONCE A YEAR. GIVES YOU A EXCUSE TO ASK OUT THAT GIRL YOU ARE INTERESTED IN OR BE WITH SOMEBODY YOU LOVE. EVEN THOUGH I DON'T HAVE ONE.

A woman in her twenties with curly brown hair says ACTUALLY I HATED IT THEN I REALIZED ITS ABOUT LOVE AND SPENDING TIME WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

A man in his forties says I THINK OF FLOWERS. IF I DON'T I'M IN TROUBLE.

A woman in her late forties says I LOVE VALENTINE'S DAY. I LIKE CHOCOLATES.

A man in his twenties says ROMANCE SHOULD NOT BE DEFINED BY A HALLMARK GREETING.

A woman in her seventies says ITS A TIME PEOPLE CAN RENEW THEIR THOUGHTS ABOUT LOVING SOMEBODY, LOVING EVERYBODY.

A woman in her twenties says I LIKE IT. ITS GOOD IF YOU ARE IN LOVE OR WITH SOMEONE. THEN ITS FUN. BUT I DEFINITELY KNOW THAT ITS DEPRESSING IF YOU ARE NOT. THERE IS A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON HAVING SOMEONE AROUND THAT TIME. I KNOW A COUPLE PEOPLE THAT IT UPSETS.

A young woman standing next to her says MAKES PEOPLE FEEL LEFT OUT.

A man in his late fifties says WELL ITS A TIME OF THE YEAR WHEN YOU SAY YOU LOVE WHOEVER YOU ARE MARRIED TO.

A woman in her fifties says ITS TOO COMMERCIAL BUT ITS NICE TO REMIND HUSBANDS AND LOVERS ABOUT THE SUBJECT.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Mary says I LOVE THOSE CHOCOLATES. NEXT WE WILL HAVE A BELL LAY LEGEND.

A commercial break plays.

An ad plays showing the programing for the day. Down to Earth at 9 PM, Masterworks at 10 PM and Allan Gregg in Conversation at 11:30 PM.
Then, an ad for 8 PM show Saturday Night at the Movies plays.
Following, an ad for 7:30 PM show Imprint plays.
A TVO ad plays in which captions read "nature matters, space matters, environment matters... TVO, television that matters."

The break ends.

Back in the studio, Mary says WE ARE GOING TO TO TALK TO A WOMAN WHO HAS CAPTURED THE HEARTS OF MANY MEN AND WOMEN OVER THE YEARS. THE FORMER PRIMA DANCER, VERONICA. SHE IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT A PROJECT NEAR AND DEAR TO HER HEART.

Veronica is in her thirties, with long wavy dark hair. She's wearing a black suit, a black hat and a silver necklace.

Mary says HI.

Veronica says HELLO.

Mary says TELL ME ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLE GALA PERFORMANCE MONDAY.

The caption changes to "Veronica Tennant. Director, Producer."

Veronica says THIS COMING MONDAY, I CAN'T BELIEVE NOW ITS AROUND THE CORNER BECAUSE THE WHOLE DREAM OF IT HAPPENED TWO YEARS AGO. IT IS THE NAME OF THE GALA IS DREAMS COME TRUE. ITS A BENEFIT FOR THE DANCER RESOURCE CENTER. EVEN MORE EXCITING, THE LAUNCHING OF A NEW ARTIST HEALTH CENTER. GROUND BREAKING STUFF. IT WAS DESIGNED BY ARTISTS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS. IT WILL BE UNDER THE BANNER OF THE UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO.

Mary says LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS HEALTH CENTER. I WAS INTERESTED IN THAT. ITS THE FIRST OF ITS KIND IN NORTH AMERICA? WHAT MAKES IT SO DIFFERENT?

Veronica says IT MIGHT BE THE FIRST OF ITS KIND IN THE WORLD. OVER THE LAST SEVEN YEARS IT WAS DESIGNED BY MANY, MANY COMMITTED ARTISTS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS WHO WERE INVESTIGATING THAT WHOLE AREA WHERE YOU TAKE CONVENTIONAL MEDICINE AND ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE, ACUPUNCTURE, OTHER THERAPIES, HOW DO YOU EMBRACE THEM UNDER ONE UMBRELLA, AS IT WERE. ARTISTS WHO ARE LIVING ON THE POVERTY LINE ARE IN THE FRONT OF EXPLORATION. OBVIOUS HAVE HEL NEEDS AND ISSUES. SO IT WAS A VERY FORWARD-THINKING IDEA TO START THIS HEALTH CENTER WHICH WILL BE A VERY INTERESTING RESEARCH FACILITY AS WELL AS A CLINIC.

Mary says SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF PRACTICAL TIGSERS THEN?

Veronica says YES. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ALL DISCIPLINES, OUT ARTISTS. EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR HEALTH. ITS EASY TO THINK OF A DANCER WITH A INJURY OR MUSICIANS WHO SUFFER REPEATED STRESS INJURIES. BUT IT GOES BE YON THAT. WHEN I SPOKE TO AN ARTIST, SHE SAID ITS AN IMPORTANT MOVE. IF WE HAD ONLY HAD ACCESS TO AN HEALTH CENTER, FOR INSTANCE, PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW THAT VISUAL ARTISTS SUFFER FROM... FIRST, THE PHYSICAL THINGS BUT THE CHEMICALS THEY ARE EXPOSED TO, THE STRESS. ITS A VERY IMPORTANT SIDE OF MEDICINE IS EMOTIONAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL AND. SO ITS GOING TO COVER EVERY AREA OF THAT.

Mary says WHEN YOU SAY ITS ALSO NOT ONLY CLINIC AL BUT RESEARCH, TO ME I CAN TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT. I WOULD THINK THIS AREA OF ILLNESSES, DISEASE, INJURIES THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO DANCERS AND PERFORMERS WOULD BE NOT AN AREA THAT A LOT OF RESEARCH HAS BEEN DONE IN.

Veronica says INTERESTING. WHEN YOU THINK OF... I HAD AN ACL REPAIR IN MY KNEE EXACTLY 24 YEARS AGO. THAT WAS A NEW TECHNIQUE PIONEERED IN TORONTO BY DR. MCINTOSH. BEFORE THAT IF YOU HAD A RUPTURE, THAT WAS THE END... IT WAS IT. NOW ITS QUITE ROUTINE. SPORTS MEDICINE HAS DEVELOPED TO SUCH AN EXTENT OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS. BUT THERE ARE MORE AREAS THAT WE CAN BE INVESTIGATING. AS SPORTS MEDICINE HAS PUSHED THE ENTIRE MEDICAL FIELD AHEAD, I THINK THIS ARTIST-FOCUSED CLINIC WILL DO THAT.

Mary says ALSO YOU SAY THE MONEY IS GOING TO TOWARDS THE DANCER TRANS ASIAN CENTER. WHICH HAS BEEN AROUND 50 YEARS?

Veronica says 50 YEARS. WE HAVE TO MENTION THE PERSON WHO HAD THE VISION TO CREATE THE CENTER. SHE WAS A DANCER. SHE IS THE ONE WHO SEVEN YEARS AGO THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, ART ARTIST HEALTH CENTER IS WHAT IS NEEDED.

Mary says PEOPLE MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE CENTER. WHAT DOES THE CENTER DO?

Veronica says ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHEREAS MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT DANCERS LIVE A FOCUSED LIFE. WHEN YOU THINK YOU TRAIN FROM THE AGE OF SIX, SEVEN EIGHT NINE OR TEN, YOU TRAIN FOR 15 OR 20 YEARS MINIMUM, THEN YOU GO INTO THE PROFESSION MORE LESS THAN THAT. THERE WAS MANY THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE WOULD BE LOST. MORE THAN THAT, SORT OF NOT KNOWING WHERE THEIR LIFE WAS GOING OR WHETHER THEY WANTED TO CONTINUE WITH LIFE. IT BECAME A SHOCK THAT THEY HAD TO STOP DANCING. THE WHOLE IDEA BE HYPE THE DANCER TRANSITION RESOURCE CENTER IS ITS WITH YOU FROM THE BEGINNING. SO YOUNG DANCERS AS THEY ENTER A PROFESSIONAL COMPANY BECOME MEMBERS OF THE CENTER. ITS THERE FOR THEM AS THEY CONTINUE THEIR DANCING CAREER. THEN IT MAKES IT MUCH MORE OF A SEAMLESS EXCITING TRANSITION AS THEY MOVE ON. WHAT IS DISCOVERED IS THAT DANCERS' SKILLS THAT ARE HONED OVER THE YEARS OF TRAINING AND PERFORMING CAN LEAD YOU INTO SO MANY FIELDS.

Mary says YOU YOU ARE A PER AFFECT EXAMPLE. YOU LEFT IN 1989 AFTER 25 YEARS.

Veronica says YES.

Mary says WHAT WAS THAT TRANSITION LIKE FOR YOU?

Veronica says ITS ALWAYS DIFFICULT. ITS A VO OCCASION TO DANCE.

Mary says YOU NEVER LEFT IT. YOU LEFT THE COMPANY BUT YOU HAVEN'T LEFT DANCE.

Veronica says BUT YOU KNOW THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE TO IT BECAUSE I JUST FEEL THAT I HAVE EXPANDED. I LIKE AN IMAGE OF ME SPREADING MY WINGS. THERE IS AN KPIL RATION IN WALKING THAT EDGE OF RISK. SOMETIMES FLYING, SOMETIMES FALLING. BUT DISCOVERING THINGS IN MYSELF, KNOWING ALWAYS THAT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN MY CAREER, EVERYTHING THAT I WORK WITH AND FOR AND THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH HAS RELATED INTO ALL THE FIELDS THAT I HAVE MOVED IN NOW. TELEVISION, PRODUCING, DIRECTING, WRITING, MOUNTING SHOWS. ALL OF THOSE THINGS STEM FROM THAT VERY CENTERED TRAINING TRADITION AND COLLABORATION AND DISCIPLINE. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE PART OF A DANCER'S LIFE.

Mary says WHEN YOU SAY COLLABORATION, THAT TO ME SUMS UP WHAT YOU ARE DOING MONDAY.

Veronica says YES.

Mary says A HUGE... TELL US WHAT PEOPLE WILL SEE IF THEY GO.

Veronica says I HOPE THEY COME. ITS GOING TO BE QUITE AN UNUSUAL EVENING IN THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PERFORMERS FROM SO MANY DISPINS. PINKA WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE I CALLED. THAT WAS TWO YEARS AGO. HE IS THE INCREDIBLE VIOLINIST. HE SAID VERONICA, COUNT ME IN. RIGHT NOW AS YOU CALL ME I HAVE FIVE MUSICIANS OUT WITH INJURIES. SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS TERRIBLY IMPORTANT. HE IS GOING TO PERFORM WITH A COLLEAGUE OF HIS. THEY WILL DO A PIECE. HE BEING AS COMMITTED TO YOUTH AS HE IS, THE BALLET WILL BE THE NATIONAL BALLY SCHOOL OF DANCERS AP THE LEADS WILL BE WONDERFUL DANCERS. EVELYN HEART WILL DO WITH DYING SWAN. THERE IS A NEW SO LORE FOR RECOLLECTION HARRING TON.

Mary says I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED HIM. HOW IS HIS INJURY?

Veronica says HE DID JUMP OFF THE BALCONY WITH GREAT FLUR USUAL ON SUNDAY NIGHT. THE BALCONY ON STAGE. [LAUGHTER] HE DID FEEL SOMETHING BUT HE IS DETERMINED TO PERFORM. IF HE DOES IT WILL BE AGAIN THAT TESTAMENT TO WHAT AN ARTIST HEALTH CENTER IS, WHY ITS NEEDED, ALSO TO OUR LIVES. WE GRAPPLE AND SORT OF LIVE WITH OUR LIMITATIONS AND THEY ARE WITH US ALL THE TIME. BUT DON'T LET ME LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE ITS ONLY DANCE. THERE ARE OTHER PERFORMERS, SINGERS. TIMOTHY FINLEY WHO USUALLY BY THIS TIME IS IN FANS DELAYED RETURNING TO HE COULD BE PART OF THE GALA. HE FELT STRONGLY IT WAS IMPORTANT.

Mary says HOW MANY PERFORMERS?

Veronica says AT LAST COUNT THERE WILL BE BACK STAINL AND ON STAGE 135 PERFORMERS.

Mary says WOW.

Veronica says THE COMPANIES SHAW, STRATFORD, CANADIAN OPERA COMPANY, NATIONAL BALLET, THE SYMPHONY, THE ARTISTIC DIRECTORS OF EACH, THE MINUTE I APPROACHED SAID THIS IS FANTASTIC. WE WILL BE PART OF YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE.

Mary says I CAN'T REMEMBER IN RECENT HISTORY THIS DIVERSE ARRAY OF PERFORMERS AN ARTISTS COMING TOGETHER ON ONE STAGE.

Veronica says THAT'S IT. ITS VERY DIE VERSUS. WHAT IS FUN IS THERE ARE CROSS COLLABORATIONS HAPPENING. FOR INSTANCE WHEN EVELYN DOES THE DYING SWAN, SHAUNA ROLLSTON ONE OF MY FAVORITE FRIENDS WILL BE PERFORMING ON STAINL WITH HER.

Mary says WONDERFUL. I WILL BE THERE. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. THANK YOU.

Veronica says MARY, I HOPE YOU LOVE IT.

A slate reads "'Dreams come true', Monday February 18th, 7:30 PM, Princess of Wales Theatre. 416-872-1212."

Mary says THAT IS IT FOR TODAY. TOMORROW WE WILL REV UP WITH THE AUTOMOBILE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION. WE WILL TAKE ALL YOUR CALLS. GENTLEMEN AND LADIES, START YOUR ENGINES TOMORROW AT 1:00. THANKS FOR WATCHING.

A slate reads "The advice given in the preceding program is of a general nature only. Viewers should consult their own professional for advice specific to their circumstances."

Watch: Dating and Relationships, Josey Vogels, Veronica Tennant