Transcript: Country Matters - Summer Cookbook | Jun 20, 2001

(music plays)

A title appears inside the shape of a house: More to Family. The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: "More to life."

Then, Maureen Taylor appears in a studio with textured yellow walls and a window in the background.

Maureen is in her late thirties, with wavy brown hair in a bob. She's wearing a pink shirt and sits at a table with a colourful salad, a plate of vegetables and a floral arrangement.

Maureen says HI, I'M MAUREEN TAYLOR AND WELCOME TOMORROW "MORE TO LIFE." HOT NIGHTS. SUNL MER IN THE CITY, OR MAYBE YOU PREFER IT THE COUNTRY OR HOW ABOUT THE COTTAGE? WHEREVER YOU MAY DWELL TODAY'S THE DAY FOR YOU. LATER TONIGHT IN PROGRAMME I'LL BE JOINED BY MICHAEL KORDA, AUTHOR OF COUNTRY MATTERS BUT FIRST IF YOU HAVE A COTTAGE, YOU'VE PROBABLY EXTENDED LOTS OF INVITATIONS FOR THE WEEKEND AND THEN THEY COME AND YOU HAVE TO FEED THEM. JANE RODMILL IS HERE TO RESCUE YOU. SHE'S THE AUTHOR OF COTTAGE LIFE'S SUMMER WEEKENDS COOKBOOKS. WE'LL TAKE A BITE OUT OF JANE'S BOOK AND TRY NOT TO TALK WITH OUR MOUTHS FULL AS YOU CALL UNTIL WITH YOUR CULINARY QUESTIONS.

Jane is in her fifties, with short wavy ash-blond hair. She's wearing glasses and a green shirt.

Maureen continues ARE YOU WONDERING HOW TO FEED A CROWD WITHOUT BEING STUCK IN THE KITCHEN ALL DAY? OR MAYBE YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW TO DO BRIE ON THE BARBECUE. HERE ARE THE NUMBERS TO GIVE US A CALL AND WE HAVE THREE COPIES OF JANE'S NEW COOK BOOK TO GIVE AWAY TO THOSE WHOSE CALLS GET TO AIR. SO HERE ARE THE NUMBERS. AND YOU CAN'T E-MAIL US TODAY. GIVE US A CALL.

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
Then, it changes to "moretolife@tvo.org"

Maureen continues HI JANE, WELCOME.

Jane says HELLO.

Maureen says WHAT ARE YOUR SECRETS FOR MEAL PLANNING WHEN YOU'RE AT THE COTTAGE, WHETHER IT'S A WEEKEND OR YOU'RE UP THERE FOR A FEW WEEKS?

The caption changes to "Jane Rodmell. 'Summer weekends cookbook.'"

Jane says WELL I'M A BIG LIST MAKER. WITHOUT A LIST I'D PROBABLY HAVE A VERY HARD TIME. THE PASTA WOULD BE IN THE CITY, THE SAUCE WOULD BE AT THE COTTAGE OR VICE VERSA. SO I WOULD FIND OUT WHO'S GOING TO JOIN US AND MAKE A LITTLE... JUST TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE LIKE, AND WHETHER THERE ARE CHILDREN INVOLVED OR WHETHER PEOPLE ARE VEGETARIAN, JUST TO HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT FOODS PEOPLE ENJOY.

Maureen says IS THIS AN ACTUAL MEAL PLANNING LIST? DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE ON MONDAY AND THURSDAY AND SATURDAY?

Jane says I'M NOT USUALLY THAT SPECIFIC, BUT TO HAVE THINGS WHICH ARE VERY VERSATILE, TOO. SO IF YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE USING PEPPERS AND PEPPERS LOOK GREAT IN THE MARKET, THEN MAYBE YOU'RE GOING TO USE THEM WITH THE GRILL ON ONE DINNER AND MAYBE WITH SANDWICHES THE NEXT DAY, OR MAKE A SALAD OR A PASTA DISH. TRY AND BE VERSATILE AND THEN YOU DO WHAT... THEN INSPIRATION, HOPEFULLY COMES, BUT HAVE AN IDEA, ANYWAY.

Maureen says OAK, AND YOU'VE GOT A RECIPE THIS AFTERNOON THAT INCLUDES RED PEPPERS AND YELLOW PEPPERS, I THINK, IS IT?

Jane says YES, IT'S A ROASTED PEPPER PESTO.

Maureen says IT LOOKS GOOD!

Jane says IT'S PRETTY, ISN'T IT? AND IT ALSO TASTES GOOD, TOO. VERY VERSATILE. IT'S ONE OF THE RECIPES IN THE BOOK FOR THAT APPETIZER TIME. IT'S THE HARDEST TIME IT I FIND AT THE COTTAGE, WHEN PEOPLE ARE MILLING AROUND AT ABOUT FIVE O'CLOCK AND OPENING FRIDGES AND LOOKING HUNGRY, BUT DINNER'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER HOUR OR TWO.

Maureen says AND YOU DON'T WANT THE KIDS TO START HAVING CHIPS AND CHEESEIES.

Jane says AND FILLING UP ON THOSE SORTS OF THINGS SO YOU WANT SOMETHING EASY AND QUICK TO PUT TOGETHER SO THERE ARE A LOT OF RECIPES IN THE BOOK FOR THAT KIND OF TIME. AND HOPEFULLY THOSE RECIPES WILL ALSO BE VERSATILE TO BE ABLE TO USE AT OTHER TIMES. SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU, BUT THE PESTO CAN BE USED WITH PASTA.

As Jane speaks, close-up shots show elements on the table such as a jar of mustard, a lemon, a garlic clove, a bowl of pepper salad and the same salad spread on bread.

Maureen says THE NEXT DAY IF YOU HAVEN'T USED IT ALL. HOW DID YOU USE THE BARBECUE IN THIS PARTICULAR RECIPE?

Jane says WE roasted THE PEPPERS ON THE BARBECUE.

Maureen says UNTIL THEY'RE GOOD AND BLACK, RIGHT?

Jane says YES, AND THEN YOU TAKE THEM OFF THE BARBECUE. YOU JUST NEED TO STEAM THEM A LITTLE WHICH HELPS TO RELEASE THE SKIN, THE CHARRED SKIN FROM THE FLESH, SO YOU POP THEM IN A BOWL, I SOMETIMED PUT THEM IN A BOWL COVERED WITH A PLATE WHICH IS THE EASIEST THING TO DO OR A PAPER BAG. YOU JUST NEED TO LET IT SIT FOR A FEW MINUTES SO THAT THEY STEAM A LITTLE AND THAT RELEASES THE SKIN FROM THE FLESH AND IT'S EASY TO PEEL OFF.

Maureen says AND THEN YOU JUST CHOP THEM ALL UP AND WHAT ELSE DO YOU HAVE IN THE PESTO?

Jane says THAT ONE HAS A LITTLE RED ONION AND A LITTLE GREEN ONION, SOME FRESH BASIL, SOME FRESH PARSLEY, AND THEN JUST ENOUGH TO MOISTEN, A LITTLE BALSAMIC VINEGAR AND A LITTLE OLIVE OIL.

Maureen says SOME PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY THINKING BALSAMIC VINEGAR, OIL DO, I HAVE TO HAVE THESE THINGS ON HAND AT THE COTTAGE? WHAT IF I DON'T USE THEM ALL BEFORE THE END OF THE WEEK? DO I HAVE TO TRUCK THEM HOME? WHAT'S YOUR ADVICE THERE AS FAR AS WHAT YOU NEED TO HAVE IN THE CUPBOARD AT THE COTTAGE.

Jane says I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON JUST TO TAKE UP A FEW REALLY SPECIAL THINGS THAT YOU ENJOY. I WOULD BE HARD PRESSED AT THE COTTAGE NOT TO HAVE OLIVE OIL, AND I WOULD HAVE A GOOD ONE, RATHER THAN... MAYBE TREAT TO A REALLY NICE EXTRA VIRGIN COLD WEST OLIVE OIL AND YOU KNOW A LITTLE BIT IS GOING TO ADD WONDERFUL FLAVOUR. AND ANY VINEGAR, AS LONG AS IT TASTES GOOD. A LOT OF VINEGARS ARE JUST ACIDIC AND THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY FLAVOUR. BUT MAYBE JUST TAKE ONE NICE FLAVOURED ONE.

Maureen picks up a slender bottle, examines it and says THIS BUNT ISN'T JUST A RED WINE VIN GA, IT'S A ZINFANDEL VINEGAR.

Jane says YES, THAT ONE COMES FROM CALIFORNIA. THAT IS ONE OF THE NICEST RED WINE VINEGARS THAT I'VE EVER TASTED.

Maureen says MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

Jane says IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND BALSAMIC VINEGAR IS NICE, A LITTLE BIT OF SWEETNESS.

Maureen says YEAH, I COULDN'T GET ALONG WITHOUT THAT, DEFINITELY. LET'S TAKE SOME CALLS, MY GUEST TODAY IS JANE RODMELL AND THE AUTHOR OF A COUPLE OF COOKBOOKS AND THE ONE WE'RE GIVING AWAY THIS AFTERNOON IS COTTAGE LIVES MORE SUMMER WEAKEN'S COOK BOOK.

She shows a copy of Jane's book, then continues
YOU DON'T HAVE TO OWN A COTTAGE. CERTAINLY GIVE US A CALL AND ASK JANE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT SUMMER COOKING, WHETHER IT'S ON THE BARBECUE OR IN THE KITCHEN.

The phone numbers reappear briefly.

Maureen continues FAY IS IN TORONTO. HI FAY.

The Caller says HI THERE.

Maureen says HI.

The Caller says EVERYTHING LOOKS WONDERFUL! I WANT TO COME OVER. NOW IF AT THE PREPARE THINGS BEFORE I GO TO THE COTTAGE, TAKE IT WITH ME... CAN YOU HEAR ME?

Maureen says YEAH, YOU'RE FINE.

The Caller says IF I TAKE IT WITH ME AND LET'S SAY I WANT TO REHEAT IT, CAN I REPEAT IT ON THE BARBECUE? A FOIL PAN OR SOMETHING?

Jane says YES, I WOULD... IT DEPENDS VERY MUCH ON WHAT IT IS, OF COURSE, BUT I WOULD THINK THE THING TO DO, IF YOU HAVE A COVERED BARBECUE, ONE WITH THE LID. YOU DON'T WANT TO OVER COOK THE FOOD BUT I THINK I WOULD TAKE A FOIL, PUT FOIL CONTAINER, PROBABLY WITH A LID AND PRE HEAT THE BARBECUE. IF YOU CAN DO INDIRECT HEAT? I DON'T KNOW WHETHER MANY PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO DO INDIRECT HEAT ON THE BARBECUE, BUT YOU'RE NOT PUTTING THE COLES DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE FOOD. YOU CAN MAYBE TURN OFF THE BURNERS ON TWO SIDES OR ONE SIDE AND PLACE THE FOOD AWAY FROM THE HEAT. YOU'RE CREATING MORE OR LESS LIKE AN OVEN IT. DEPENDS WHAT IT IS. IF YOU THINK JUST TO HEAT THE BARBECUE AND THEN JUST TURN IT QUICKLY, IF IT'S A MEAT OR SOMETHING, BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING WHICH HAS A SAUCE OR SO ON, I'D PUT IT IN A FOIL CONTAINER I THINK AND HAVE A LID ON IT AND JUST NOT LEAVE IT THERE TOO LONG BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO OVER COOK THINGS.

Maureen says GOOD FOR FAY THOUGH FOR THINKING AHEAD LIKE THAT OFTEN WE ARRIVE AT THE COTTAGE RIGHT AT SUPPER TIME, AND END UP GOING INTO TOWN FOR FAST FOOD OR SOMETHING. BUT FAY'S THINKING AHEAD AND BRINGING IT UP WITH HER. THANKS VERY MUCH, FAY. NADIA IS IN WOODBRIDGE. HI NADIA.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI. WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION IT.

The Caller says MY QUESTION IS I'M GOING TO BE HAVING WELL EIGHT PEOPLE UP AT THE COTTAGE, AND WHAT WOULD BE THE QUICKEST WAY MAYBE TO MAKE SOME SALADS OR A BARBECUE, LIKE THE KIND OF FOODS. THEY'RE GOING TO BE ARRIVING LIKE AROUND LUNCHEON SATURDAY.

Maureen says THEY'RE ARRIVING AT LUNCH BUT IS IT THE DINNER YOU'RE WONDERING ABOUT?

The Caller says NO, IT'S FOR LUNCH. THEY'RE GOING TO BE ARRIVE TOGETHER. YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST.

Maureen says FOR EIGHT. DO YOU WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS SALAD?

She points at the colourful salad shown at the beginning of the program.

Jane says WELL I THINK IF I WERE COMING UP ON SATURDAY AND EVERYONE WAS GOING TO ARRIVE ON SATURDAY I WOULD HAVE A LOT OF IT DONE AHEAD. AND CHOOSE SALADS WHICH YOU CAN TOSS TOGETHER OR HAVE ALREADY PREPARED AND THEN YOU CAN JUST ENJOY YOUR FRIENDS WITHOUT HAVING LAST MINUTE FUSS IN THE KITCHEN WHICH ALWAYS TAKES AWAY SOME OF THE JOY OF IT. THIS SALAD, ACTUALLY IT WOULD BE A BRILLIANT ONE FOR THAT KIND OF OCCASION BECAUSE IT HAS LOTS OF GRAINS, IT TASTES WONDERFUL, IT HAS WHEAT BERRIES, WHICH IS A LITTLE UNUSUAL IN TERMS OF A GRAIN.

Maureen says I'VE HAD IT BEFORE, YEAH.

Jane says IT'S A LITTLE CHEWY BUT VERY NUTTY AND GOOD. IT HAS PASTA, THE LITTLE ORZO PASTA, WHICH IS THE LITTLE OVAL ONE THERE IS AND WILD RICE AND IT HAS GREENS. IT HAS GRATED ZUCCHINI. THE THING WITH THAT PASTA SALAD IS THAT IT CAN BE MADE AHEAD AND IT STORES BEAUTIFULLY, IT TRAVELS WELL, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. I WOULD CHOOSE THINGS WHICH YOU CAN MAKE AHEAD THAT ARE GOING TO TRAVEL WELL. SO ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS OPEN THE TOP...

Maureen says WOULD THIS NEED TO BE REFRIGERATED ON THE WAY TO THE COTTAGE?

Jane says THIS ONE IS NOT SO DELICATE.

Maureen says IT DOESN'T HAVE MAY NICE OR...

Jane says NO, AND IT DOESN'T VP ANY CHICKEN OR EGGS OR ANYTHING IN THERE THAT'S GOING TO GIVE A PROBLEM. YOU COULD DO A NICE PASTA WITH ROASTED GRILLED VEGETABLES AT HOME AND THEN TAKE ALONG A LITTLE FETA TO SPRINKLE ON TOP. THOSE KINDS OF SALADS WHICH TRAVEL WELL ARE GOOD TO HAVE AT THE COTTAGE.

Maureen says WOULD WHEAT BERRIES BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE HARD TO FIND? I KNOW IT WOULD BE EASY IN TORONTO BUT WHAT ABOUT OUTSIDE OF TORONTO? IS IT DIFFICULT?

Jane says I THINK YOU'D FIND WITH A LOT OF THESE LITTLE MORE UNUSUAL GRAINS, THEY'RE BECOMING... INT SUPERMARKETS ARE SAYING HEY, THESE ARE WHAT PEOPLE REALLY ENJOY EATING. YOU WILL FIND THEM IN BULK FOOD BARNS AND YOU'LL FIND THEM AT A HEALTH FOOD STORE, TOO, IN THE COUNTRY TOWNS AS WELL. I WOULD SAY. AND THINGS LIKE COUSCOUS AND BULGAR WHEAT TO MAKE A TABBOULEH, THAT'S ANOTHER WONDERFUL ONE TO TAKE WITH YOU. NICE GRAINS AND NICE FRESH PARSLEY AND LOTS OF THINGS.

Maureen says SO IF YOU OFFER THE COMPANY, THE EIGHT PEOPLE AN ASSORTMENT OF SALADS DO YOU REALLY NEED TO DO SOMETHING HEV VERY ON THE BARBECUE?

Jane says YOU MAYBE DON'T, OR YOU COULD EVEN HAVE DONE, MADE SOME GRILLED CHICKEN OR STEAK AT HOME APPS AND THEN JUST SLICE IT AND THEN... OR YOU COULD GET THE MEN INVOLVED. I ALWAYS LIKE IT BECAUSE MEN SEEM TO TAKE OVER THE GRILL. I'M ALWAYS ENCOURAGED.

Maureen says YEAH, IT IS THE ONE AREA THEY'RE WILLING TO KIND OF STEP IN THERE.

Jane says THAT'S RIGHT. AND SO MAYBE JUST TO HAVE SOME MEAT ALL READY. IF YOU HAVE TIME, PEOPLE LOVE THE BARBECUE IN TERMS OF IT'S A SOCIAL MEETING PLACE AND PEOPLE STAND AND ENJOY AND GIVE YOU ADVICE. AND SO PERHAPS TO HAVE SOMETHING ALREADY MARINATED, READY TO GO ON THE BARBECUE, AND YOU COULD PUT THAT IN A PLASTIC CONTAINER, PERHAPS, AND IN A COOLER.

Maureen says BRING IT UP, AWAY YOU GO.

Jane says AND THEN WITHIN HALF AN HOUR YOU'LL HAVE...

Maureen says YEAH, AND EVERYBODY WILL BE HAPPY.

Jane says YOU COULD ASK THEM TO HELP YOU CONTINUE.

Maureen says SURE. ALL RIGHT, BESSE OF LUCK, NADIA, THANKS FOR YOUR CALL. CAROLINE IS IN ETOBICOKE. HIGH CAROLINE.

The Caller says HI. I LOVE THE IDEA OF HAVING GRILLED CHICKEN WITH SALADS BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO MASTER THE ART OF GRILLING CHICKEN WITHOUT BURNING IT.

Maureen says OKAY. ARE YOU DOING PIECES OF CHICKEN?

The Caller says I'VE DONE THE BONELESS CHICKEN BREASTS FOR SALADS BUT I'VE ALSO HAD PROBLEMS NOT TRYING TO CHAR CHICKEN WITH THE BONE IN.

Maureen says WITH THE BONE IN.

The Caller says IS THERE A TRICK FOR... SORRY ABOUT THAT.

Maureen says THAT'S OKAY.

The Caller says IS THERE A TRICK FOR BARBECUING CHICKEN WITHOUT HAVING THE WHOLE THING BURNT BEFORE IT'S COOKED THROUGH?

Maureen says GOOD YES, AND I'VE DONE THIS MANY TIMES AS WELL.

Jane says I THINK EVERYBODY HAS. I THINK THE THING IS JUST NOT TO HAVE IT THE HEAT TOO HIGH. LEARN HOW TO ADJUST THE HEAT ON YOUR BARBECUE, BECAUSE YOU'LL FIND THAT IF THE BARBECUE IS TOO HOT, THEN YOU WILL CHAR THE OUTSIDE BEFORE THE INSIDE IS DOUBLE. I FIND COOKING CHICKEN BONE IN ON THE BARBECUE IS EASIER BECAUSE THE BONES KEEP IT MOIST AND REMOVE IT A LITTLE BIT FROM THE HEAT WHEN YOU CAN SEAR IT ON THE FLESH SIDE DOWN, AND THEN WHEN YOU TURN IT OVER SO THAT IT'S SITTING ON ITS LITTLE BONES, THEN PUT THE LID DOWN AND LET IT COOK.

Maureen says WOULD YOU MAYBE TURN THE HEAT UNDER ON THE CHICKEN ON SLIGHTLY AND USE THE INDIRECT HEAT METHOD... IF YOU YOU LEAVE IT ON LOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE THERE FOREVER FOR THE DARK MEAT.

Jane says I WOULDN'T KEEP IT REALLY LOW, SORT OF MEDIUM, 350. SOMETIMES IT'S A GOOD IDEA IF YOU HAVE A THERMOMETER SO YOU CAN TEST THE HEAT OF THE BARBECUE. SO MANY BARBECUES, THEY'RE ALL A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT AND YOU HAVE TO GET TO KNOW YOUR OWN SO THAT YOU KNOW ITS LITTLE WEAK SPOTS AND SO ON. INDIRECT HEAT IS FINE. YOU CAN COOK IT IN DIRECT HEAT ALSO, AND JUST BRING THE LID DOWN.

Maureen says IS IT NECESSARY TO MARINADE CHICKEN FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE YOU PUT IT ON THE BARBECUE THIS.

Jane says I DON'T THINK SO, NO. JUST EVEN SIMPLY IS SALT AND PEPPER WOULD BE FINE. BUT NICE TO ADD A LITTLE LEMON OR OLIVE OIL AND SOME HERBS AND GARLIC, PERHAPS, BEFORE... AND NOT TO PUT ON A BARBECUE SAUCE, IS A A SWEET ONE RIGHT OFF THE BAT. WAIT IN THE EN. LET THE CHICKEN JUST BE GRILLED A LITTLE ON THE BREAST MAYBE ABOUT 10, 15 MINUTES AND THEN PUT THE BARBECUE SAUCE ON, BECAUSE THE BARBECUE SAUCE IS SURELY GOING TO BURN VERY QUICKLY.

Maureen says OKAY. ALL RIGHT, GOOD LUCK. THANKS CAROLINE. ROSE IS IN VICTORIA? HI ROSE.

The Caller says VICTORIA HARBOUR.

Maureen says OH, OKAY, BECAUSE I WAS THINKING WE'RE NOT ON IN BC AS FAR AS I KNOW. HOW ARE YOU ROSE?

The Caller says OH, FINE.

Maureen says GO AHEAD.

The Caller says I'M JUST WONDERING HOW DO YOU COOK STAKE TO GET IT TENDER ON THE INSIDE, SO YOU CAN BE ABLE TO EAT IT AFTER IT'S COOKED ON THE OUTSIDE.

Maureen says YOUR STEAK'S TOO TOUGH ON THE BARBECUE?

The Caller says I'M FINDING THE OUTSIDE IS REALLY COOKED WELL DONE BUT THE INSIDE IS MEDIUM RARE, RAW, AND THEN IT STARTS TO GET REALLY CHEWY.

Maureen says OKAY, WHAT KIND OF CUT ARE YOU USING.

The Caller says BLADE STEAK?

Maureen says OKAY, THAT'S A CHECK, ISN'T IT?

Jane says YES, IT IS. I WOULD THINK THAT IT THE BLADE... I'D MARINATE THE BLADE STEAK TO TENDERIZE IT A LITTLE BIT AND THEN THAT'S ONE CUT THAT YOU CAN'T COOK TOO QUICKLY. I WOULD SEAR IT ON BOTH SIDES OVER HIGH HEAT AND THEN I'D TURN THE HEAT DOWN AND PULL THE LID DOWN AND LET IT COOK A LITTLE MORE QUIETLY. I'M STILL NOT MEANING LOW HEAT BUT A MEDIUM HEAT FOR THE REST OF THE TIME. AND THERE IS A TRICK TO LEARNING WHEN MEAT IS COOK. IT'S THE FLESH TEST, YES. IF YOU CAN JUST POKE... JUST FEEL THE SURFACE OF THE STEAK AND IF IT IS STILL LIKE YOUR UNCHEMPBEDTIST SOFT AND TENDER, THAT MEANS IT'S QUITE RARE INSIDE BUT IF YOU MAKE A TIGHT FIST AND YOU FEEL THAT PIECE OF YOUR MUSCLE THERE, THAT'S GOING TO BE REALLY WELL DONE AND IF YOU'RE JUST... IN THE MIDDLE IS WHERE YOU WANT IT TO BE JUST RIGHT. SO IF YOU JUST SENSE THE FEEL OF THE MEET WITH JUST A LITTLE TOUCH THAT WILL PROBABLY HELP YOU GET THE RIGHT, AS YOU LIKE IT.

Maureen says AND THE MARINADE YOU WANT TO USE IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO TENDERIZE THE BLADE STEAK SO WHAT ARE THE INGREDIENTS THAT WILL ACT AS A TENDERIZER?

Jane says USUALLY SOMETHING ACIDIC IS GOOD. A LEMON OR A LITTLE MAYBE A RED WINE VINEGAR OR EVEN RED WINE WOULD BE GOOD, JUST TO HELP TENDERIZE THE...

Maureen says AND IT CAN WORK, ROSE, BECAUSE MY MOTHER HAS A RECIPE FOR BLADE STEAK ON THE BARBECUE. SHE MARINATES IT OVERNIGHT AND THERE'S CHOPPED UP ONION, LEMON JUICE, A TON OF DIFFERENT SPICES AND A LITTLE OIL IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN AND YOU DON'T... YOU DON'T... YOU COOK IT VERY SLOWLY, JUST LIKE YOU SAID, AND I DON'T THINK YOU CARE ABOUT RARE OR WELL, WHATEVER, WITH THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF STAKE. IT JUST SORT OF COMES OUT EVEN. IT'S REALLY GOOD.

Jane says VERY TASTY.

Maureen says YEAH, AND COST-EFFECTIVE, I THINK. OKAY, GOOD LUCK, ROSE. THANKS. MICHELE IS IN TORONTO. HI MICHELE.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI.

The Caller says HI, Maureen.

Maureen says YES.

The Caller says HI, YOU ARE SO SWEET.

Maureen says I am?

The Caller says MY QUESTION IS WE ARE STRICT VEGETARIAN PEOPLE, WE ARE NOT EATING EGGS OR CHICKEN OR FISH OR ANYTHING, AND IN A WAY WE WOULD LIKE TO EAT OUTSIDE AND EVERYTHING, NOW MY QUESTION IS THERE ANY IDEA FOR THE VEGETARIAN PEOPLE BECAUSE WHEREVER I GO I HAVE TO CARRY MANY THINGS WITH ME SO IS THERE ANY IDEA FOR THE STRICT VEGETARIAN PEOPLE LIKE HOW TO ROAST THE PEPPER AND HOW TO ROAST THE GARLIC, OR IS THERE ANY GOOD IDEA FOR US?

Maureen says SO USING THE BARBECUE... YEAH, TO COOK VEGETARIAN. WHAT DO YOU THINK, JANE?

Jane says OH, WONDERFUL AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IN THE MORE SUMMER WEEKEND, THAT'S WHAT WE REALIZED, THAT PEOPLE LOVE... MANY MORE PEOPLE ARE WANTING TO EAT VEGETARIAN TO CUT BACK ON THE AMOUNT OF MEAT THEY EAT, EVEN IT THEY'RE NOT STRICTLY VEGETARIAN, AND YOU'LL FIND LOTS... SALADS, AS WE SAY, WITH DIFFERENT GRAINS, LEGUMES THERE, YOU CAN DO WONDERFUL THINGS AT THE COTTAGE, TOO, WITH EASY SALADS WITH WHITE KIDNEY BEAN, WITH LENTILS. AND ON... BUT ON THE BARBECUE PER SE IS WHAT... ROASTING VEGETABLES ON THE GRILL, I THINK, REALLY ADDS WONDERFUL FLAVOUR. ROASTING TOMORROW MATE TOTION ON THE GRILL AND THEN MAKING A TOMATO SOUP OR A TOMATO PASTA SAUCE GIVES IT JUST THAT EDGE. THAT LITTLE CHARRED TASTE WHICH JUST ADDS A LITTLE...

Maureen says NOW DO YOU PUT THEM DIRECTLY ON THE GRILL OR DO YOU HAVE SOME SORT OF FLAT PAN THAT YOU HAVE FOR YOUR BARBECUE?

Jane says I'VE GOT BOTH. I'VE GOT ONE OF THOSE GRIDS WHICH YOU CAN SIT ON THE BARBECUE IF YOU'RE DOING SMALLER PIECES OF VEGETABLES THAT SOMETIMES ARE GOING TO SLIP THROUGH. BUT IF IT'S A LARGE PIECE OF... A SLICE OF EGGPLANT, HE IS PLANT IS WONDERFUL GRILLED ON THE BARBECUE, OR IF IT'S A LARGER SLICE THEN I JUST DON'T BOTHER. BUT THOSE... THEY ARE AVAILABLE, THOSE HANDY, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A SCREEN.

Maureen says YES.

Jane says THAT YOU CAN PUT ON AND PRE-HEAT AND I USUALLY TOSS... IF I'M DOING ZUCCHINI OR PEPPERS OR ONIONS, JUST TOSS THEM A LITTLE OIL PERHAPS FIRST, PEPPER AND SALT BEFORE PUTTING THEM ON THE GRILL. OR PUT THEM UNTIL A BIG BOWL FIRST AND MIX THEM ALL TOGETHER AND THEN PUT THEM ON THE SCREEN.

Maureen says I KNOW PEOPLE WHO USE THOSE HUGE PORTOBELLO MUSHROOMS AS IF THAT'S A STEAK.

Jane says THAT'S A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL BARBECUE. VERY MATTY FLAVOUR, ISN'T IT? AND YET VERY TASTY.

Maureen says THAT'S A REAL TREAT. GOOD LUCK, THANKS MICHELE. BETTY IS IN ORILLIA.

The Caller says HELLO. ODD LADY ASKING ABOUT BARBECUING THE CHICKEN THAT WAS COOKED TOO MUCH ON THE OUTSIDE AND NOT ENOUGH ON THE INSIDE. I HAVE A FRIEND THAT PUTS HER CHICKEN IN A STOCK POT AND BOILS IT FOR MAYBE 20 MINUTES SO IT GETS COOKED THROUGH BEFORE SHE PUTS IT ON THE BARBECUE AND IT TURNS OUT BEAUTIFULLY.

Maureen says IT'S MORE OF A PAR BOILING THING.

The Caller says YEAH, AND IT WORKS GOOD. AND LIKE SHE SAID, DON'T PUT THE BARBECUE SAUCE OR SWEET AND SOUR SAUCE ON IT UNTIL LATER BECAUSE IT REALLY GETS BLACK THEN, BUT IT REALLY DOES MAKE IT COOK EVEN.

Maureen says THAT'S A GOOD IDEA. I'VE HEARD OWE OTHER PEOPLE DO THE SAME THING IN THEIR MICROWAVE WITH A BIT OF WATER. PRE COOK IT A LITTLE BUT YOU STILL GET THAT BARBECUED FLAVOUR IN THE LAST FEW MINUTES OF COOKING. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THAT TIP.

Jane says THAT IS A WONDERFUL WAY, TOO, IF YOU'RE WANTING TO DO SPARE RIBS.

Maureen says TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SPARE RIBS, BECAUSE THEY CAN... YOU CAN SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON THEM AND YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO COME OUT TOUGH AND DRY.

Jane says NO. SO I... LATELY WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING IS COOK THEM A LITTLE BIT AT HOME FIRST. EVEN IN A VERY, VERY SLOW OVEN WITH SOME NICE SPICES ON, OR RUB A SPICE PASTE ON, JUST TO LET THEM, COOK THEM THERE MAYBE FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS AT SOMETHING LIKE 250 degrees SO THAT THEY'RE QUIETLY COOKING AND THEN YOU CAN PACK THEM IN YOUR COOLER AND THEN IT ONLY TAKES 30 MINUTES ON THE GRILL. JUST BRUSH THEM WITH A LITTLE OIL AND PUT THEM OVER A HOT GRILL AND THEN PUT ON YOUR WONDERFUL SAUCES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO.

Maureen says AND DO YOU USUALLY GO FOR BROKEN BY THE BABY BACK RIBS AS OPPOSED TO THE SIDE RIBS.

Jane says I LIKE THE MEATY ONES.

Maureen says YEAH, THEY'RE JUST A LITTLE BETTER, MORE MEAT ON THEM. LET'S GO NEXT TO HEATHER IN TORONTO. HI HEALTH ARE.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI.

The Caller says I HAVE THREE-YEAR-OLD NIECE THAT IS ON A PIZZA KICK. SHE LOVES SAYING PIZZA, BUT THAT'S PRETTY WELL ALL SHE WANTS TO EAT. NOW WHEN YOU GO UP TO THE COTTAGE YOU DON'T WANT TO JUST COOK UP A PIZZA FOR ONE LITTLE KID. WHAT CAN I DO TO MAKE A SINGLE SERVING FOR A THREE-YEAR-OLD?

Jane says WELL THAT'S A CHALLENGE, ISN'T IT? WELL, LET'S SEE WHAT I HAVE DONE IN THE PAST, BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE, AND I HAVE LITTLE ONE THAT COMES AND HE ONLY EATS SAUSAGES. SO IT'S A BIT OF A CHALLENGE TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIT THAT IN FOR EVERY MEAL. LET'S SEE WHAT I WOULD DO, I WOULD EITHER PRE-MAKE AT HOME BEFORE I GO, I THINK, I'D MAKE SOME SMALL, I'D MAKE SOME PIZZA DOUGH OR BUY IT... YOU CAN BUY IT IN THE SUPERMARKET FROZEN AND JUST ROLL OUT THE PIZZA DOUGH AND STAMP OUT SOME MINIATURE BASES AND THEN I THINK I'D BAKE THEM AT HOME, JUST PAR BAKE THEM SO YOU HAVE THE LITTLE ROUNDS ALL READY TO GO AND CHILDREN ACTUALLY LOVE DOING THIS BECAUSE YOU CAN... DEPENDING ON THEIR APPETITE YOU CAN MAKE THEM FOUR INCHES OR SIX INCHES AND THEN LET THEM CHOOSE WHAT THEY CAN PUT ON IT. THEY LOVE MAKING IT THEMSELVES, TOO. SO IF YOU CAN HAVE THAT ALL READY AND FOOT IN YOUR FREEZER, WRAPPED IN FOIL, OR THEN... YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT AND TAKE IT YOU DON'T NEED TO FREEZE, BUT IF YOU'RE WANTING TO HAVE SOME ON HAND THAT MIGHT BE GOOD FOR THE LITTLE ONE AND THEN SHE CAN MAKE HER OWN OR HER FRIENDS, AND THEY CAN GIVE THEM SOME SAUCE AND WHAT YOU KNOW THEY LIKE, BECAUSE THEY LOVE TO CHOOSE, SOME GRATED CHEESE AND YOU CAN EVEN DO THAT ON THE BARBECUE, TOO, WHICH MAKES...

Maureen says OH.

Jane says IF THEY'RE PARTIALLY BAKED YOU'RE BASICALLY ONLY GOING TO BE HEATING THE TOP,, SO YOU COULD DO IT ALMOST ON DIRECT HEAT OR IF YOU CAN WATCH IT CAREFULLY SO YOU DON'T BURN THE BOTTOM AND THEN YOU CAN IN FIVE MINUTES YOU COULD HAVE ONE DONE, READY FOR YOU ON AT BARBECUE.

Maureen says THE COTTAGE IS THE PLACE WHERE WE ACTUALLY DO MAKE MORE OF OUR OWN PIZZAS. IT'S SO CONVENIENT HERE TO CALL FOR IT BUT WE HAVE FUN. THE KIDS HAVE THEIR OWN PIZZA THAT'S PRETTY PLAIN AND THE ADULTS SORT OF GO NUTS ON OURS. WE DO THAT ONCE A WEEK, I THINK. IT'S EASY. ALL RIGHT, THANKS VERY MUCH. WE'LL GO TO CATHY IN BALA. HI CATHY.

The Caller says HELLO, MAUREEN? I'M CALLING FROM MY COTTAGE IN BALA AND I WAS JUST WONDERING IF I COULD GET SOME IDEAS ON BREAKFAST, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE MAYBE EIGHT OR TEN GUESTS AND PEOPLE... PEOPLE ARE STAGGERING DOWN AND WAKE UP AT DIFFERENT TIMES ARE. THERE ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR MAYBE BARBECUING BREAKFAST?

Maureen says AREN'T YOU AMBITIOUS? IT'S A BOX OF RICE CRISPIES at OUR PLACE. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Jane says I KNOW BREAKFAST AT THE COTTAGE, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN AGENDA. THE FISHERMEN ARE UP AND OUT AT FOUR, THE GOLFERS ARE GONE, AND SO EVERYONE'S COMING AT DIFFERENT TIMES. WHAT I LOVE TO DO IS TO HAVE MAYBE A PLATTER OF FRUIT, YOU KNOW, JUST SO THAT PEOPLE CAN HELP THEMSELVES INTO WHAT THEY LIKE. SO IT'S ALL READY FOR THEM, WHATEVER TIME. THERE'S... ONE OF THE RECIPES IN THE BOOK IS A BREAKFAST TRIFLE WHICH IS REALLY VERY YUMMY AND IT HAS YOGURT AND GRANOLA AND FRUIT IN LAYERS AND IT'S VERY PRETTY AND IT ACTUALLY CAN SIT OUT, YOU KNOW, FOR AN HOUR OR SO, IF PEOPLE ARE IN THE MORNING, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST FOR THREE QUARTERS OF AN HOUR, MAYBE HALF AN HOUR. BUT I FIND THAT THE PANCAKE BACON AND EGG THING, WHICH IS WONDERFUL, AND THE ONLY TIME WE DO IT IS AT THE COTTAGE BUT I USUALLY GET HELP FROM EVERYBODY ELSE AND DELEGATE, YOU'RE TOAST, YOU'RE BACON AND THEN MAYBE HAVE SCRAMBLED EGGS OR SOMETHING EASY RATHER THAN DOING A LA MINUTE NUT ONE AT A TIME.

Maureen says PRETTY HARD DOING ON THE BARBECUE.

Jane says OR IF YOU HAVE A GRIDDLE THAT'S FUN. YOU CAN BUY THE GRIDDLES THAT WILL GO ON THE BARBECUE OR EVEN IF YOU HAVE AN OLD IRON FRYING PAN, THEY'RE GOOD BECAUSE THEY HOLD THE HEAT, SO YOU CAN PUT YOUR IRON FRYING PAN ON YOUR BARBECUE AND USE IT AS YOU WOULD, THEN PEOPLE CAN MAKE THEIR OWN. YOU COULD HAVE YOUR STATION, YOU KNOW, YOUR THINGS ALL READY FOR PEOPLE AND THEN MAYBE SOME PANCAKE BATTER IN THE FRIDGE YOU COULD HAVE. THEY COULD MAKE A PANCAKE AND THEN HAVE FRUIT FOR THE MAPLE SYRUP ALL READY AND THE BUTTER ALL READY FOR THEM TO GO.

Maureen says LOTS OF COFFEE.

Jane says AND LOTS OF COFFEE.

Maureen says ALL RIGHT WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE. CATHY THANKS FOR YOUR CALL AND JANE THANKS FOR BEING HERE TODAY. THANK YOU. HAVE FUN AT THE COTTAGE THIS SUMMER. JANE RODMELL'S MORE SUMMER WEEKENDS COOK BOOK IS PUBLISHED BY COTTAGE LIFE COOK BOBS AND JANE HAS ALLOWED US SO GRACIOUSLY TO PUT THESE RECIPES ON OUR WEBSITE FOR TO YOU FIND THERE.

A close-up shot shows Jane's book. The cover features a picture of a table laden with food, by a lake.

Maureen continues BOTH THE WHEAT BERRY SALAD AND THE ROASTED PEPPER PESTO WILL BE AT...

A slate reads "Recipes, www.tvo.org/moretolife."

Maureen says AND WE'LL BE SENDING COPIES OF JANE'S NEW COOK BOOK TO MICHELE IN TORONTO, BETTY IN ORILLIA AND ROSE IN VICTORIA HARBOUR. CONGRATULATION. AFTER THE BREAK WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE VIRTUES AND VICISSITUDES OF RURAL LIFE BUT FIRST, NOTHING SAYS COUNTRY LIKE AN ANTIQUE QUILT. IMAGINE FINDING 115 OF THEM. ONTARIO ARTIST LYNN HELLER DID AS SHE UNWOVE THREADS OF THE PAST, SHE PATCHED TOGETHER AN ART EXHIBIT FOR TODAY.

A clip plays.

(Violin music plays)

Clips show a sign that reads "An exhibition by Lynn Heller", followed by pictures of small pieces of woven materials in different styles and colours.

A young woman weaves threads on a stretcher frame.

A female voice says I DIDN'T KNOW MY FAMILY HISTORY AT ALL BEFORE I STARTED THIS PROCESS. AND FINDING OUT MORE AND MORE ABOUT IT HAS BEEN SURPRISING. HERE I AM, AN ARTIST, AND MAYBE THAT WAS GENETICALLY PROGRAMED.

The artist stands inside the gallery displaying her art.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Lynn Heller. Artist."

Lynn is in her thirties, with short chestnut hair. She's wearing a green sweater.

She says AND IT'S BEEN VERY NICE TO CONNECT TO THAT HISTORY. AND ALSO THAT I'M DOING SOMETHING THAT THEY ACTUALLY DID, TOO IT QUILT MAKING.

A grainy black and white picture shows ten women posing in a room.

Lynn says THE MURPHY SISTERS. YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM WERE PRETTY AND SOME NOT. SO WHY DIDN'T THEY GET MARRIED? AND SO IT'S THROUGH THAT EXPLORATION OF TRYING TO FIND OUT WHY THEY DIDN'T GET MARRIED AND WHY THEY DIDN'T USE THE QUILTS, THAT I LEARNED MUCH MORE ABOUT THEM. THE MURPHY SISTERS DIDN'T HAVE TO GET MARRIED BECAUSE THEY WERE WELL OFF, THEY HAD A FREEDOM THAT MAYBE OTHER WOMEN DIDN'T HAVE. AND WE TEND TO THINK THAT WOMEN THINK OF MARRIAGE AS A NECESSITY, PARTICULARLY DURING THAT TIME. AND THAT'S KIND OF PROPAGATED NOW, AND HERE WERE WOMEN THAT CHOSE A VERY DIFFERENT PATH.

A short clip shows another young woman hanging up Lynn's artwork in the gallery.

The caption changes to "Kerry Fitzmaurice. Owner, 'Rebecca gallery.'"

Kerry, also in her thirties, with curly brown hair, says
WHEN I FIRST REVIEWED THIS STORY, I THOUGHT "BOY, THEY MUST HAVE BEEN VERY EXCENTRIC WOMEN" AND THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THE MORE IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT PERHAPS THEY WERE JUST AHEAD OF THEIR TIME.

Grainy black and white pictures showing streets of that time flash by.

Lynn says I TALKED TO MY UNCLE ABOUT THIS. HE'S 84 NOW. AND ACTUALLY HE USED TO LIVE IN THE VILLAGE OF WILLIAMSBURG AND REMEMBERED THEM. THEY WERE REFERRED TO AS THE MERKLEY GIRLS. HE SAID THAT THEY WERE VERY CREATIVE, THAT THEY ALL HAD DIFFERENT OUTLETS. ONE WOULD DRAW, ONE WOULD PLAY VIOLIN, ONE THE PIANO. LOUISE WAS ACTUALLY HEAVILY INTO THE STOCK MARKET. AND APPARENTLY SHE MADE A MILLION AND THEN LOST IT ALL. I REALLY NEEDED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THESE WOMEN, AND SO I WENT BACK TO WILLIAMSBURG IN DUNDAS COUNTY WITH MY MOTHER.

Overexposed colour pictures show a short-haired woman in her fifties.

Lynn continues SHE HADN'T REALLY TALKED MUCH ABOUT HER FAMILY, SO IT'S JUST THIS SENSE OF KNOWLEDGE AND CONNECTION AND REALLY LEARNING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WAS PART OF ME.

(Violin music continues to play)

A close-up shows an emboss of a woman quilting.

Lynn says QUILTING WAS JUST PART OF YOUR LIFE. EVERY WOMAN DID IT. AND THE TRADITION WAS THAT YOU YOU MADE TWELVE QUILTS BEFORE YOU WERE MARRIED. YOU WOULD MAKE THE QUILTS FOR YOUR FAMILY-TO-BE AND YOUR HUSBAND-TO-BE, AND IT WAS PART OF... IT WAS A CRUCIAL PART OF WHAT YOU TOOK INTO THE MARRIAGE. AND SO QUILTS ARE VERY REPRESENTATIVE OF SECURITY, WARMTH, PROTECTION. IT WAS A WAY THAT PEOPLE OFTEN LEARNED HOW TO SEW.

Fast clips show drawings of young women quilting and intricate quilt patterns.

Lynn says IT TAKES QUITE A BIT OF SKILL TO GET VERY GOOD AT IT. EVEN IN OUR MODERN WAY OF LIFE THERE'S NO WAY I COULD MAKE 150 HUGE QUILTS IN THE TIME THAT I HAVE IN MY LIFE. I TOOK THE BASIC GRID OF A QUILT AND I SUPERIMPOSED 150 DIFFERENT TRADITIONAL QUILT DESIGNS ON THAT GRID AND DEVELOPED THOSE, STITCHED THEM AND DEVELOPED THEM FOOL THESE LITTLE MINIATURE QUILTS.

Fast clips show several of the designs.

Then Lynn points at one on display and says THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR IS CALLED BER'S PAW. THEY WERE PUT TOGETHER WITH VERY DISPAR RAT MATERIALS, WHATEVER WAS AT HAND. SO WELL WHAT I DO IS I PUT TOGETHER PIECES OF FABRIC THAT REALLY KIND OF EMPHASIZED THEIR ODDITY OR THEIR QUIRKINESS. SO YOU SEE SORT OF THIS STRIPED MATERIAL AND THE DIFFERENT LAYERS ARE REALLY EMBLEMATIC OF QUILTS. QUILTS ARE JUST ALL LAYERS. AND SORT THIS PROCESS OF EXPOSING THE LAYERS AND SHOWING WHAT'S BEHIND THE QUILT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.

Kerry says IT REPRESENTS A PART OF THE PAST THAT I THINK IS POSSIBLY FORGOTTEN IN A SENSE. IT IS VIEWED AS SOMETHING THAT IS TRADITIONAL AND VERY FUNCTIONAL BUT NOT NECESSARILY AS CREATIVE AS I WOULD SEE IT. AND LYNN HAS BEEN ABLE TO SORT OF BRIDGE THE GAP AND BRING SORT OF THE TRADITIONAL PART OF HER INFLUENCE BASED ON HER PAST WITH THE MERKLEY SISTERS AND TRANSLATED THAT INTO SORT OF MODERN DAY QUILT MAKING.

Fast clips show quilt designs on a laptop screen.

Lynn says I'VE SCANNED THESE LITTLE DRAWINGS I DID FOR THE MINIATURE QUILTS INTO DIGITAL FORM AND ANIMATED THEM AND DID A COMMUTER ANIMATION. IT'S ACTUALLY WRAPPED IN A QUILT that MY GREAT, GREAT, GREAT GRANDMOTHER WORKED ON. WE DON'T WORK WITH OUR HANDS MUCH ANYMORE. WE'RE REALLY LOSING THOSE TALENTS AND THOSE SKILLS. AND I THINK THAT OUR CULTURE HAS MOVED VERY FAR AWAY FROM SOMETHING THAT REALLY SPEND LIVENS YOUR LIFE. WHEN I WORK WITH MY HANDS IT DOES A LOT FOR ME. IT'S NOT JUST WHAT I PRODUCE BUT IT'S ALSO HOW IT MAKES ME FEEL. MY SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT IN JUST THE CALMING AND THE MEDITATIVE WORK THAT YOU DO WITH YOUR HANDS.

The clips end.

Back in the studio, Maureen says NOW THAT WE'VE BLANKETED YOUR MIND IN COUNTRY AFFAIR, LET'S STRIP BACK THE COVERS AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE REALITY OF COUNTRY VERSUS CITY LIVING. MICHAEL KORDA HAS LIVED ON BOTH SIDES OF THE SEPTIC SYSTEM. THE EDITOR IN CHIEF OF SAME COMMON SCHUSTER HAS WRITTEN HIS ACCOUNT OF RURAL LIFE IN "COUNTRY MATTERS," THE PLEASURES AND TRICK LAYINGS OF MOVING FROM A BIG CITY TO ON OLD FARMHOUSE...

Michael is in his mid-fifties, with receding curly gray hair and a stubble. He's wearing glasses, a gray plaid suit, pink shirt and spotted gray tie.
A picture of his book appears briefly on screen. The cover features sepia-tone drawings of farm motifs such as a farmer, a shovel and a pig.

Maureen continues AND WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU. ARE YOU A COUNTRY MOUSE OR A CITY MOUSE? MAYBE YOU HAVE AN ANECDOTE ABOUT MAKING THE BIG MOVE. OR PERHAPS YOU NEED SOME ADVICE ON WHETHER YOU OUGHT TO DO IT. GIVE US A CALL.

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."

Maureen says WELCOME, MICHAEL. HI.

Michael says HI, HOW ARE YOU?

Maureen says FINE, THANK YOU. YOU MET YOUR WIFE MARGARET WHILE YOU WERE BOTH HORSEBACK RIDING IN NEW YORK CITY.

The caption changes to "Michael Korda. 'Country matters.'"

Michael says WELL, WE WERE BOTH MEMBERS WITHOUT KNOWING EACH OTHER OF WHAT MAY BE THE SMALLEST MINORITY IN NEW YORK CITY, WHICH ARE PEOPLE WHO NOT ONLY OWN THEIR OWN HORSES BUT KEEP THEIR OWN HORSES AND RIDE THEM IN CENTRAL PARK. THERE WERE, IN 1973, WHEN WE MET, THERE WERE MAYBE 14 OF US. THERE MAY BE THREE OR FOUR NOW, BUT WE KEPT OUR HORSES ON A STABLE ON THE 89th STREET AND APSET AVENUE AND ROAD EVERY MORNING IN THE PARK AND THAT'S HOW WE MET. I WOULD RIDE CLOCKWISE AROUND THE RES RECOVER AND MARGARET WOULD RIDE ANTI-CLOCKWISE AND EVENTUALLY WE RODE IN THE SAME DIRECTION.

Maureen says WHAT PROMPTED THE TWO OF YOU TO WANT TO BUY A FARMHOUSE? YOU ALREADY SEEMED TO HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

Michael says WELL MARGARET'S A FARMER'S DAUGHTER. FER FATHER WAS FARMER UNTIL GLOUCESTER AND SO FARMING IS IN HER BLOOD. MY FATHER WAS BORN ON A FARM UNTIL HUNGARY AND WHILE I HAVEN'T LIVED ON A FARM PIE SELF UNTIL NOW, OR UNTIL THEN IT I ALWAYS WANTED TO LIVE SOMEPLACE WHERE YOU COULD PUT DOWN ROOTS AND FEEL THAT IT WAS NOT THE CITY, AND A WEEKEND HOUSE DIDN'T DO FOR ME, YOU KNOW? I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THE WEEKEND HOUSE OR INDEED THE WEEKEND EXPERIENCE, AS I MAKE IT CLEAR IN THE BOOK. SO WE LOOKED FOR TWO YEARS FOR A SUITABLE HOUSE WHICH HAD TO BE A HOUSE FOR US AND FOR THE HORSES.

Maureen says OKAY SO, THE HORSES WERE BIG HERE. THEY WERE COMING WITH YOU.

Michael says THE HORSES WERE NOT ONLY COMING WITH US, BUT WERE THE ORIGINAL IMPETUS FORGETTING OUT OF THE CITY.

Maureen says AND DESCRIBE THE FORM TO US NOW. HOW MANY ACRE ANDS? IN ONTARIO WE LIKE IT TALK ABOUT ACRES.

Michael says WE HAVE TWENTY-TWO ACRES AND A FARMHOUSE WITH A BARN BUILT AT THE SAME TIME SO OURS IS AN OLD HOUSE. AND I REALIZE I'M LOOKING BACK ON IT, THAT WE BIT OFF PROBABLY MORE THAN WE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN WE COULD CHEW. IT'S AN OLD HOUSE, HAS SPECIAL PROBLEMS. IN FACT IN THE BOOK I HAVE A CHAPTER ENTIRELY DEVOTED TO...

Maureen says TO THE PROBLEMS?

Michael says NOT JUST THE PROBLEMS BUT THE CARDINAL RULES FOR LIVING IN AN OLD HOUSE. THE MAJOR ONE OF WHICH IS... DISTILLING THEM ALL VERY BEEFLY, LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE.

Maureen says DON'T DISTURB WHAT'S WORKING.

Michael says UNLESS YOU HAVE TO DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.

Maureen says AND YOU HAD NEVER REALLY BEEN TAUGHT THOUSAND DO SORT OF SMALL ENGINE REPAIR... I MEAN, YOU WEREN'T A REAL HANDY GUY, MICHAEL. I MEAN, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF YOU ARE STILL.

Michael says WELL, I'M HANDIER THAN YOU MAY THINK.

Maureen says WELL, YOU'LL IS REALLY TO CONVINCE ME.

Michael says THAT'S PARTLY THE PRODUCT OF THREE YEARS IN THE ROYAL AIR FORCE. BUT I'M NOT HANDY ENOUGH. ON THE OTHER HAND.

Maureen says WELL WHAT DID ONE NEIGHBOUR SAY BUT AND SEPTIC SYSTEMS?

Michael says IF I CAN SAY IT ON THE AIR.

Maureen says YEAH, YOU CAN.

Michael says THEY WOULDN'T LET ME SAY IT ON THE AIR ON A NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO WHICH WAS TOUGH BECAUSE I COULDN'T FIND A SUBSTITUTE BUT WHEN WE FIRST MOVED TO THE COUNTRY WE GAVE A DINNER PARTY WHICH IS SOMETHING WE STOPPED DOING YEARS AGO, IN THE SUMMER TO CELEBRATE OUR BEING UP THERE AND WE HAD A LOT OF FRIENDS UP FROM THE CITY TO COME AND STAY IN THE HOUSE JUST AS WE WERE ABOUT TO SIT DOWN TO DINNER WE SMELL THIS STRANGE SMELL SEEPING OUT OF THE GARDEN SO I GO OUT AND HAVE A LOOK AND LOOKED DOWN THERE'S THIS STUFF OOZING OUT OF THE GARDEN AND IT'S CLEAR TO ME WHAT IT IS, EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT... I'M NOT A NATURAL AT PLUMBING. AND IT'S, BUT IT'S FAIRLY UNMISTAKABLE. AND SO I CALLED OUR ANCIENT BUT VERY BELOVED HANDYMAN, HAROLD ROW WHO ARRIVED SHORTLY AFTERWARDS WITH HIS SON-IN-LAW, TURK DAILY, WHO'S A SEPTIC GUY. AND THEY DUG UP THE GARDEN, WHICH HE'D JUST PLANTED AT GREAT EXPENSE, AND I WOULD GO OUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE TO BRING THEM A BEER, KEEP THEM GOING, ASK HOW IT WAS GOING, SO ON AND SO FORTH AND IN THE END THEY LEFT SAYING DON'T FLUSH THE TOILET FOR THE NEXT 48 HOURS, WHICH IS GREAT WHEN YOU HAVE TWELVE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE STAYING OVER FOR THE WEEKEND AND I WAS HAVING BREAKFAST THE NEXT DAY AT A RESTAURANT IN THE VALLEY WHICH IS THE SIZE OF THIS STUDIO, FOR THOSE YOU WHO CAN'T SEE IT THE STUDIO IS LIKE A TOMB, BUT TINY LITTLE RESTAURANT IS OPEN AND TELLS YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT PLEASANT DIETS FROM FIVE IN THE MORNING UNTIL SEVEN AT NIGHT. AND THE WAITRESS BEHIND THE COUNTER, WHO WAS ALSO THE OWNER, SAW ME AND SHE SAID, "ARE YOU Mr. KORDA?" AND I SAID "YES, I AM." SHE SAID "HAROLD ROW AND TURK DAILY WAS IN HERE HAVING BREAKFAST EARLIER ON AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU. THEY WERE SAYING REAL NICE THINGS ABOUT. TURK DAILY HE TURNED TO HOWL OVER HIS EGGS AND HE SAID THAT MICHAEL KORDA, HE'S A REAL SMALL GUY, BUT I'LL TELL YOU THIS HE DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT SEPTICS." THAT THAT'S MY LIFE'S BOAT TEEX. I DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING, YOU NAME IT BUT I'VE HAD TO LEARN IN THE LAST 22 YEARS.

Maureen says THE COMMUNITY HAS REALLY RALLIED TO HELP AND YOU MARGARET OUT HERE. YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE WHO DO YOUR TRACTOR ENGINE AND PEOPLE WHO SPECIALIZE IN YOUR TRUCK ENGINE, AND YOU GOT TO KNOW, I THINK THROUGH THE DUNKIN DOUGHNUTS SHOP, YOU KNOW, EVERY MECHANIC FOR 40 SQUARE MILES.

Michael says YES. YES, THERE IS THAT. FIRST OF ALL LET ME SAY THAT I DON'T KNOW, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR CANADA, BUT SPEAKING FOR THE RURAL UNITED STATES, THE FIRST COMMANDMENT, AND POSSIBLY ALL 10 ARE NEIGHBOURLINESS. SO EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR NEIGHBOURS, AND THEY'RE EASY ENOUGH TO LIKE, MOST OF ONE'S NEIGHBOURS, THEY ARE YOUR NEIGHBOURS. AND NEIGHBOURLINESS WHICH IS HELPING THEM, THEY'RE HELPING YOU, THEY'RE GIVING YOU ADVICE YOU DON'T WANT, ALL THE REST OF IT THAT'S A CENTRAL FUNCTION AND WITHOUT THAT YOU JUST CAN'T GO ON IN A SMALL RURAL COMMUNITY. SECONDLY, IT IS TRUE THAT WHEN WE... THAT OUR FIRST DISCOVERY WAS THAT WHEN YOU HIRE SOMEBODY TO DO SOMETHING, THEY TURNED UP FOR THE FIRST DAY WITH THEIR DOG. AND EVEN SAMES FOR THE SECOND DAY. BUT THEY NEVER TURNED UP FOR THE THIRD DAY. AND YOU WOULD PHONE THE WIFE AND THEY WOULD SAY I THOUGHT HE WAS OVER TO YOUR HOUSE. AND SO YOU WOULD... YOU KNOW, YOU HAD HALF THE ROOF DONE, BUT NOT THE OTHER HALF, OR YOU HAD HALF THE GUTTERS EMPTIED AND NEVER THE OTHER HALF. AND THE WAY WE SOLVED THAT WAS TO GO AROUND TO THE DUNKIN DOUGHNUTS AT FIVE IN THE MORNING BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THEY ALL GO FOR DOUGHNUTS AND GRAB THEM OUT OF THE LINE. WE'D PRESS GANG THEM AS IN THE ROYAL NAVY AND DRAG THEM HOME WITH THEIR BAVARIAN CREAMS AND COFFEE.

Maureen says MAYBE WE'LL GET INTO A DISCUSSION WITH THE VIEWERS ABOUT NEIGHBOURLINESS FROM THE BIG CITY BECAUSE I'M FROM A SMALL TOWN AND YOU'RE RIGHT, NEIGHBOURLINESS IS RULE ONE BUT I HAVE FOUND PROBABLY THE BEST NEIGHBOURS OF MY LIFE RIGHT HERE IN DOWNTOWN Toronto.

Michael says THEN MY ADVICE IS TO STICK IN DOWNTOWN TORONTO BUT NOT NEW YORK CITY.

Maureen says AND THEY CAN'T MOVE, EITHER. I'VE TOLD THEM. NEW YORK MAYBE A DIFFERENT STORY, BUT LET'S TAKE SOME CALLS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CITY LIFE VERSUS COUNTRY LIFE THIS AFTERNOON WITH MICHAEL KORDA, AUTHOR OF COUNTRY MATTERS. HE MOVED FROM BIG CITY NEW YORK TO A FARMHOUSE OUT NEAR POUGHKEEPSIE, WOULD THAT BE THE BIGGEST...

Michael says TO OF THE NORTH OF, YES.

Maureen says BUT WE'D LIKE YOUR CALLS AND YOUR OWN STORIES.
JENNY IS IN TORONTO. HI JENNY.

The Caller says I WANTED TO RENT A FARMHOUSE, IT'S CONVENIENT TO WORK AND I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GREAT FUN. AS AN OLDER COUPLE HAVE BEEN THERE AND WE'RE HOPING JUST TO RENT THE HOUSE WHILE THEY WENT TO AN OLD AGE HOME, AND WHAT THEY HAD DONE, BECAUSE OLDER HOUSES ARE INCONVENIENT CLIMBING STAIRS WHEN YOU'RE OLDER, THEY HAD THE KITCHEN WITH ALL THE PLUMBING IN THERE AND THEN JUST BEHIND THE WALL INTO THE DINING ROOM THEY HAD A TOILET PUT RIGHT THERE. SO I HAD TO TRY AND ARRANGE ALL MY FURNITURE AROUND THIS TOILET IN THE DINING ROOM.

Michael says WELL THAT'S TRUE OF COUNTRY HOUSES. THEY REPRESENT... IN OUR CASE THEY REPRESENT PROBABLY 210 YEARS OF COMPROMISE WITH THE WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE, AND IF YOU TRY AND CHANGE IT TOO AMBITIOUSLY, YOU CAN'T... YOU JUST CAN'T GET IT DONE. YOUR WORDS BRING ME A CERTAIN FEELING OF ABSOLUTE FAMILIARITY. FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE OUR HOUSE IS FULL OF PECULIARITIES GATHERED LIKE THAT OVER THE SENT TREAS BUT ALSO BECAUSE ONE OF OUR CHIEF SUBJECTS OF CONVERSATION IS GETTING TO BE, "YES, BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO LIVE HERE WHEN WE GET REALLY OLD?" EVENTUALLY THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE US AWAY TO THE OLD AGE HOME. HOW ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THOSE STAIRS? HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET TO A BATHROOM WHEN THERE ISN'T ONE ON THE FIRST FLOOR? ACTUALLY NOW THAT YOU MENTIONED IT THE NOTION OF PUTTING A BATHROOM NEXT TO THE KITCHEN, WHIL IT'S DIFFICULT TO CONCEIVE OF HOW TO DO IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A GREAT IDEA AND GOING TO POSTPONE GOING TO THE OLD AGE HOME AT LEAST BY A COUPLE OF YEARS.

Maureen says NOW SHE MENTIONED THAT THEY RENT THE FARMHOUSE OFF AN OLD HE WERE COUPLE, AND YOUR PLACE WAS ALWAYS KNOWN AS... WHAT WAS THE PEOPLE WHO OWNED IT BEFORE YOU YOU?

Michael says WELL, FOR YEARS EVERYBODY ALWAYS REFERRED TO IT AS THE OLD HUBLER HOUSE BECAUSE THEY HAD IT FOR 30 YEARS BEFORE US AND OLERUD PEOPLE REFERRING TO IT AS THE OLD HEWIT PLACE BECAUSE THEY FARMED IT BEFORE THE HUBLERS BOREDDED IT. AND ONE OF THE GREAT EPIPHANIES BECAUSE IN A WAY MY BOOK IS VERY HE'LL ELIJAHIC ABOUT LIVING IN THE COUNTRY AND SMALL TIME LIFE IS WHEN SOMEBODY REFERS TO IT AS THE OLD KORDA PLACE.

Maureen says HAS IT BEEN 23 YEARS NOW?

Michael says YES, IT HAS.

Maureen says DO YOU STILL KEEP AN APARTMENT? NEW YORK CITY?

Michael says I'M IN THE PROCESS OF GIVING IT UP. IT'S GONE FROM BIG TO SMALL SO TO SMALLER TO TINY. AND I'M ABOUT TO GIVE THAT UP AND WILL STAY IN A HOTEL FOR TWO DAYS A WEEK IN THE TWO DAYS I'M IN THE CITY. THAT WILL MAKE ME A REAL COUNTRY RESIDENT.

Maureen says HOW MUCH DOES A SMALL APARTMENT IN NEW YORK GO FOR THESE DAYS?

Michael says I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERY APARTMENT. MY APARTMENT COSTS ME MORE MONEY THAN I WANT TO THINK ABOUT. I WOULD SAY MINE GOES FOR ABOUT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 4,000 AND 5,000 dollars A MONTH.

Maureen says A MONTH?! AND WHAT'S IN THERE?! IS THERE ACTUAL BEDROOMS?

Michael says THERE'S A BEDROOM, I DO NOT TO WANT BELITTLE IT OR PRETEND IT'S A SLUM. IT'S ON THE 53rd FLOOR OF A BUILDING ON 57th STREET LOOKING OVER CENTRAL PARK. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE PAYING FOR REALLY, WONDERFUL BIG MODERN BATHROOM. REASONABLE SIZED LIVING ROOM, SMALL KITCHEN BUT WHAT THE BUILDING HAS AND WHICH I WILL MISS TERRIBLY IS ON THE 30th FLOOR IT HAS A GLASSED-IN, HEATED SWIMMING POOL.

Maureen says SO YOU USE IT TO GO SWIMMING. NO POOL ON THE FARM YET? YOU HAVEN'T DUG UP...

Michael says YOU KNOW SOMETHING? WE HAVE SIX HORSES. MARGARET IS A VERY COMPETITIVE THREE-DAY EVENT RIDER, AND SO WE HAVE A BARNFUL OF HORSES AND PEOPLE WORKING THERE, AND WE HAVE CATS, AND WE HAVE PIGS. IF YOU'VE GOT ALL THAT, THERE'S A NO TIME TO GO SWIMMING AND B, YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY LEFT OVER TO BUILD A SWIMMING POOL SO WE DON'T DO THAT.

Maureen says TELL PEOPLE ABOUT NOT YOUR PIG BUT THE PIG YOU WENT TO VISIT BUFFER GOT A PIG.

Michael says BUZZY THE BOAR.

Maureen says TELL THEM ABOUT BUZZY...

The caption changes to "Today's topic: Country life / City life."

Michael says WELL THE THING ABOUT BUZZY THE BOAR IS WHEN WE FIRST GOT OUR PIGS, PEOPLE USED TO COME AND SEE THEM. YOU KNOW, AROUND WHERE WE ARE, IT'S STALE VERY RURAL COMMUNITY SO PEOPLE WOULD GET OUT OF THEIR TRUCK IN THE DRIVEWAY, THE GUY COME TO REPAIR THE GUTTER, WHO EVER AND HE WOULD STAND THERE FOR A SECOND AND HE WOULD SAY...
(SNIFFING)
YOU PEOPLE GOT PIGS? WE WOULD SAY YEAH AND HE'D SAY LET'S GO DOWN AND LOOK AT THEM AND THERE'S A WAY YOU LOOK AT PIGS. LET A COUPLE NOTCHES OUT OF YOUR BUILT AND PULL THE BRIM OF YOUR HAT A LITTLE LOWER, LIGHT A CIGARETTE IF YOU'RE A SMOKING PERSON, AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THE PIGS AND THE PIGS LOOK AT YOU, AND AFTER A WHILE YOU SAY, "THEM'S REAL NICE PIGS, THEM PIGS." AND BUT WHEN I GOT TO BE ABOUT 200, 250 POUNDS, WHICH IS SLAUGHTER WEIGHT AND STILL WEREN'T SLAUGHTERED, PEOPLE WHO SAY "THEM'S REAL NICE PIG, THEM PIGS, BUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THEM?" AND MARGARET WOULD HAVE TO EXPLAIN SHE NEVER HAD ANY INTENTION OF HAVING THEM SLAUGHTERED, THEY WERE BASICALLY PETS BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING VIETNAMESE POT BELLIED PIGS, WE'RE TALKING DUROCKS, SERIOUS PIGS, TWO DUROCKS AND A YORK SIR HAMSHIRE CROSS. SO I GOT WORRIED, WHEN THEY REACHED ABOUT 400 POUNDS I BEGAN TO WONDER FIRST OF ALL HOW LONG THEY WOULD LIVE AND SECONDLY HOW BIG THEY WOULD GET AND DOWN AT THE FAR BORDERS OF MY FARM THERE WAS AN OLD MAN WHO HAD A VERY RUN DOWN FARM AND HAD A FAMOUS BOAR, BREEDING BOAR CALLED BUZZY THE BOAR WHO WAS FAMOUS. AND I WENT DOWN TO SEE BUZZY BECAUSE I FIGURED HE WAS ABOUT AS OLD AND BIG AS A PIG EVER GETS. AND B UNLD ZNLD ZY IS IN THIS SHED AND OLD JOE BALINO, THIS FARMER, KAYAKLING. HE SAYS OH, BUZZY LOVES COMPANY. JUST LOOK THROUGH THE HOLE. AND SUDDENLY THERE'S THIS HUGE BUT PERFECTLY FRAMED AND LASHED EYE, LIKE A FASHION MODEL'S EYE, BUT LIKE TEN TIMES THE SIZE, STARING RIGHT BACK AT ME AND THE NEXT THING, BOOM! IT'S LIKE A SHERMAN TANK HAS PUNCHED INTO THE SIDE OF THE WALL. AND OUT INTO HIS OUTDOOR ENCLOSURE COMES BUZZY THE BOAR WHO WEIGHS LIKE A THOUSAND POUNDS AND IS SITTING ABOUT YEA AND MY HAS A HEAD LIKE A RHINOCEROS. SO I WENT BACK HOME AND I SAID TO MARGARET I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM ABOUT HOW LONG THESE PIGS ARE GOING TO LIVE BECAUSE JUDGING FROM BUZZY THE BOAR THEY LIVE A LONG TIME BUT I THINK YOU GOT A REAL FENCING PROBLEM HERE. I THINK YOU NEED TO BE BUILDING A MUCH THICKER FENCES THAN YOU'VE GOT.

Maureen says BUZZY LOVES COMPANY. LIKE THAT. ELIZABETH IS IN BLENHAM WHICH IS REAL NICE FARM COUNTRY. HI ELIZABETH.

Michael says HI ELIZABETH.

Maureen says DO YOU LIKE LIVING IN BLENHAM?

The Caller says UM, YES.

Michael says I HENCE A HESITANCY THERE.

The Caller says I'M DUAL. MISSISSAUGA, TRANS FEARD LOT WITH MY HUSBAND'S JOB BUT AS AN OUTCOME, WE HAVE DUAL CHILDREN. OUR SON IS A DESIGNER IN LONDON ENGLAND AND HE CAN FARM EQUALLY WELL. I LEARNED TO RUN... NOT TO RUN, I LEARNED TO DELIVER COW CALF AND IT WAS GREAT EXPERIENCE. THEY'RE JUST LIKE CHILDREN. ANYTHING YOU DO FOR A CHILD, AND ANYTHING ELSE, THE NEIGHBOUR ACROSS, KITTY CORNER ON THE NEXT HILL TEACHES YOU.

Michael says I'LL BUY THAT TO A POINT. ON THE OTHER HAND YOU YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEND THEM TO COLLEGE.

Maureen says YEAH, THE COW CALVES NEVER...

The Caller says THAT'S TRUE, BUT IT GIVES YOU WELL ROUNDED CHILDREN.

Maureen says DO YOU ACTUALLY FARM OUT THERE IN BLENHAM?

The Caller says YES.

Maureen says WHAT DO YOU GROW?

The Caller says COW CALVES.

Maureen says OH, SO YOU'RE NOT A FRUIT FARMER.

The Caller says NO NO. WE'RE DOWN IN THE OTHER NECK OF THE WOODS. ON ONE SIDE THE LIVESTOCK IT RED PEPPERS, THE OTHER SIDE IS TOMATOES, GINSENG, IT'S LIKE THE HUB OF AGRICULTURE.

Michael says DO YOU RAISE THEM FOR MILKING OR FOR BEEF?

The Caller says NO, NO, NO. YOU DON'T GET A HOLIDAY, GET TO RIDE YOUR HORSES IF YOUR RAISING THEM FOR MILKING.

Michael says TELL ME ABOUT IT.

The Caller says YES, NO, NO THE LAND'S TOO EXPENSIVE FOR SOME OF THOSE. THERE USED TO BE A DAIRY FARM KITTY CORNER BUT NOW IT'S A MUSHROOM FARM.

Maureen says BUT TELL ME SOMETHING, WHEN YOU NEED TO SEE A MOVIE, YOU DRIVE INTO CHATHAM, I GUESS, RIGHT?

The Caller says I VERY, VERY SELDOM EVER GO TO SEE A MOVIE.

Maureen says YEAH?

Michael says I THINK THIS IS, THIS IS... IDEAL WITH THIS IN COUNTRY MATTERS, EVENTUALLY IF YOU LIVE IN THE COUNTRY LONG ENOUGH, AND PEOPLE SAY TO YOU WHERE DO YOU GO TO THE MOVIE, WE SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE GO TO REDHOOK IT'S ONLY 40 MINUTES AWAY AND THEY SAY WHEN'S THE LAST MOVIE YOU EVER SAW AND WE SAY "TITANIC." BUT IT HAPPENED LIKE THIRTEEN YEARS AGO! AND IT'S TRUE, ONE THING WITH THE HORSES, THE ANIMALS, THE FARM, 6:30 COMES AND EVEN IF YOU'VE MADE PLANS TO GO TO THE MOVIE YOU SUDDENLY SAY WELL YOU KNOW, WE'LL NEVER GET THERE ON TIME, WHY DON'T WE JUST SKIP COMPANY.

Maureen says YOUR WIFE IS A FORMER MODEL.

Michael says YEAH.

Maureen says DOES SHE STILL WANT TO SHOP ON FIFTH AVENUE? DO PRADA?

Michael says NO. I HAVE TO SAY THERE WAS A TIME WHEN LIKE THE LADY FROM BLENHAM, SHE WAS DUAL. NOW IT'S VERY HARD TO GET HER TO THE CITY EXCEPT FOR KIND OF A SENSE OF... WHAT SHE CALLS ESSENTIAL MAINTENANCE. HAIR, PEDICURES, IT'S STILL TOUGH TO GET A PEDICURE IN OUR NECK OF THE WOODS. NOT THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED IN, BUT MARGARET IS. BUT GRADUALLY I THINK IF YOU SORT OF SETTLE DOWN INTO COUNTRY LIVING, PRETTY SOON YOU STOP WANTING ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

Maureen says OTHER THINGS FILL THE VOID, ALTHOUGH AS YOU POINT OUT IN THE BOOK, YOU STARTED TO NOTICED SOME THINGS CREEP INTO DUCHESS COUNTY THAT DIDN'T USED TO BE AVAILABLE. I MEAN, IN FACT ONE WAS A VERY POSITIVE THING. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOP FOR GROCERIES IN NEW YORK CITY ANYMORE.

Michael says THAT'S TRUE. WE GET... FARMERS' MARKETS HAVE EXTENDED AND BEING MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED AND THERE'S STUFF THAT YOU COULDN'T BUY TEN YEARS AGO THAT YOU CAN BUY NOW, SO THERE ARE BIG CHANGES IN THAT, BUT THE BOOK IS TO SOME DEGREES HE'LL ELIJAHIC, BECAUSE I'M WRITING ABOUT A WAY OF LIFE, SMALL TOWN RURAL LIFE THAT IS VANISHING AND GRADLY THE LOCAL BUSINESSES ARE BECOMING FRANCHISE BUSINESSES, THE NUMBER OF HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS ARE INCREASING. THERE IS THIS SORT OF SUBURBAN AND CITIFIED NEW YORK WORLD THAT'S CREEPING NORTH AT A CERTAIN RATE. EVENTUALLY OF COURSE IT WILL REACH YOUR BORDER. (LAUGHING) NOTHING LIKE IT WHEN IT GETS THERE BUT IT'S GOT TO GET THROUGH ALL OF VERMONT BEFORE IT REACHES. BUT IT IS HAPPENING. AND YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO SAY WELL, WE'LL MOVE 50 MILES FURTHER NORTH ARE MERELY PUTTING OFF THE DAY, BECAUSE IT'S FOLLOWING THEM IT.

Maureen says YEAH. I NOTICED THAT IN THE BOOK YOU BLAME CANADA FOR COLD WEATHER THAT YOU GET IN NEW YORK, UPPER NEW YORK STATE.

Michael says I DON'T ACTUALLY BLAME CANADA BUT OUR WEATHER CHANNELS ALWAYS SAIL WRAP UP WARM BECAUSE THERE'S A STORM COMING DOWN FROM CANADA ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES. THEY NEVER SAY... MADE ME DO THIS THING BEFORE. I KNOW IN CANADA THEY SAY WRAP UP WARM BECAUSE THERE'S A STORM COMING UP TO YOU FROM NEW YORK STATE.

Maureen says I THINK WE GET THE ODD END OF ONE OF YOUR HURRICANES DOWN THERE.

Michael says BUT OUR STORMS ARE NEARLY ALWAYS PRE FACE BID THE NOTION THAT THEY'RE COMING IN ALMOST DIRECTLY FROM THE CENTRE OF TORONTO.

Maureen says OKAY. JENNIFER IS IN OTTAWA. HI JENNIFER.

The Caller says HELLO.

Maureen says HI, ARE YOU A CITY FOLK OR COUNTRY FOLK?

The Caller says OH, DEFINITELY COUNTRY FOLK. I GREW UP NORTH OF PETERBOROUGH IN LAKEFIELD, ONTARIO.

Maureen says PRETTY.

The Caller says AND I LEFT THERE IN 1976 AND CAME FOLLOW OTTAWA. AND WHEN I BOUGHT MY HOME HERE, I WAS IN SEARCH OF THE COUNTRY AND THE CITY THE BEST THAT I COULD. AND I'M LIVING PRETTY CLOSE TO THE OTTAWA RIVER. OF COURSE IT DOESN'T REPLICATE THE BEAUTY OF THE KAWARTHA LAKES. AND NOW I FIND THAT I HAVE THREE BROTHERS, AND TWO OF THEM AS WELL WERE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO FIND A COUNTRY IN THE CITY EVERY CHANCE THEY AGAIN. WE ALL, YOU KNOW, REALLY WANT TO BE BACK THERE BUT OF COURSE THERE ISN'T A LOT OF EMPLOYMENT IN THAT AREA. SO I THINK EMPLOYMENT KEEPS US HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, 25 YEARS LATER, I STILL DON'T FEEL AT HOME IN THE CITY.

Maureen says HMM!

The Caller says AND I'M TRYING TO MAKE MY HOME ITSELF VERY COUNTRY LIKE WITH LOTS OF FLOWERS AND A VEGETABLE GARDEN AND NOW I WANT TO PUT IN SOME SORT OF SOUND OF WATER BECAUSE I GREW UP ON THE RIVER, SO I'M TRYING TO EMULATE THAT IN MY CITY HOME. AND EVENTUALLY I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE COUNTRY, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE I JUST SORT OF, I'M TRYING TO IMITATE THE COUNTRY LIFE IN THE CITY AND GET BY HERE, BUT IT NEVER LEAVES YOUR HEART. IT NEVER DOES.

Maureen says YEAH, THAT'S... THAT'S FUNNY. MY KIDS OFTEN WISH THAT THEY COULD HAVE HAD A CHILDHOOD LIKE I HAD, GROWING UP IN A REALLY SMALL TOWN. BUT THEN I LOOK AT THE THINGS THEY LIKE TO DO, YOU KNOW? I GREW UP...

Michael says YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT IN A SMALL TOWN.

Maureen says WELL NO AND THERE IS NO McDONALDS IN THE TOWN I GREW UP IN. THEY JUST GOT A TIM HORTONS... THAT'S A DOUGHNUT SHOP. DUNKIN DOUGHNUTS SOUNDS LIKE THE GATHERING PLACE WHERE YOU LIVE. WHAT DID THEY DO BEFORE THEY HAD THAT?

Michael says WELL FIRST OF ALL THE HARDWARE STORE WAS THE MALE GATHERING PLACE, AND THE GRAND UNION FOR A LONG TIME WAS THE GATHERING PLACE, A SUPERMARKET. AND THERE WAS A LOCAL BAR, WHERE PEOPLE GATHERED. I THINK THE DUNKIN DOUGHNUTS FILLED THE VOID IN SMALL TOWNS BECAUSE IT'S WHERE EVERYBODY GOES, WHERE EVERYBODY GOSSIP, WHERE EVERYBODY MEETS. SO I'M VERY MUCH IN FAVOUR OF THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S TERRIBLE WHEN SMALL TOWNS GET SOMETHING FROM THE CITY. PLEASANT VALLEY HAS CERTAINLY BEEN IMPROVED BY HAVING A DUNKIN DOUGHNUTS THERE, EVEN THOUGH LET'S BE REASONABLE, THE FOOD WOULD KILL YOU.

Maureen says AND ONE'S ENOUGH PROBABLY, EH?

Michael says ONE DOUGHNUT?

Maureen says ONE DUNKIN DOUGHNUT.

Michael says WHO COULD EAT ONE.

Maureen says NO I MEAN ONE PLACE. I CAN'T LET YOU GO BEFORE YOU TELL US THE STORY ABOUT SOME OF THE GUEST WHOSE HAVE COME TO THE FARM WHO CAN'T WAIT TO GET THERE WANT TO VISIT YOU AND IT TURNS OUT TO BE LESS THAN WONDERFUL. CORNELIUS VANDEKAMP AND HIS DOG BUDDY?

Michael says I CAN TELL THE STORY ABOUT THAT. THAT'S A STORY ABOUT NEIGHBOURLINESS, OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOURS ARE THE VANDENKAMPS WHO ARE VERY ELDERLY BROTHERS AND THEIR SISTER, ERMITRUDE AND THEY ARE DAIRY FARMERS AND AS I DON'T HAVE TO TELL MANY OF YOUR VIEWERS THERE IS NO HARDER WAY OF MAKING A LIVING THAN DAIRY FARMING.

Maureen says YEAH.

Michael says THERE JUST ISN'T. AND WE WERE NEVER ABLE TO MAKE ANY KIND OF CONTACT WITH THE VANDENKAMPS BECAUSE WE WERE JUST SO CLEARLY NOT SIXTH GENERATION DUTCH DAIRY FARMERS THAT THEY HAD NOTHING TO SAY TO US. THEY WEREN'T UNFRIENDLY, THEY WERE JUST RESERVED. ONE DAY WE GET THIS NICE DOG THAT COMES DOWN TO OUR BARN, AND IN CASE IT'S LOST WE FEED IT AND GIVE IT WATER AND I RECOGNIZE IT AS BEING THE DOG THAT SITS ON THE VANDENKAMP TRACTOR WHEN ONE OF THEM IS ON HIS TRACTOR. AND SO I THOUGHT WELL, I DON'T WANT THIS DOG TO GO DOWN THE ROAD BACK HOME BECAUSE IT'LL GET HIT BY A CAR, SO I PHONED THE VANDENKAMPS AND SPEAK TO THE SISTER AND SAY I THINK YOUR DOG BUDDY IS DOWN HERE. OH, I'LL GET LESTER TO DEAL WITH THAT, AS IF SHE'D NEVER SPOKEN ON A PHONE BEFORE IN HER LIFE IT WHICH MAY BE TRUE. AND A FEW MINUTES LATER, LESTER ARRIVES IN HIS PICK-UP TRUCK, BIG GUY, CARRYING A ROPE AND A SHOTGUN, DRESSED AS IF FOR A LYNCHING AND GETS OUT VERY SLOWLY AND SAYS I'M REALLY, REALLY SORRY IF BUDDY UPSET YOU FOLKS AND MADE A PROBLEM.
I SAID NO, NO BUDDY... NO, WE LIKE BUDDY, HE'S GREAT DOG BUT I JUST DON'T WANT HIM GOING HOME DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE HE COULD GET HIT BY THE CAR. HE SAID WELL YOU KNOW, I JUST TO WANT DO THE RIGHT THING, WE'RE NEIGHBOURS. HE SAID IF BUDDY'S GIVING YOU TROUBLE, I'LL JUST TAKE HIM HOME AND SHOOTING. WE WERE LIKE NO, WAIT A MINUTE, LESTER, WE DON'T WANT YOU TO SHOOT BUDDY! WE WANT TO YOU TAKE BUDDY HOME AND JUST MAKE SURE HE DOESN'T GET ON THE ROAD.

Maureen says BUT THAT'S THE WAY THEY THOUGHT.

Michael says LESTER'S ENORMOUSLY RELIEVED. HE DIDN'T WANT TO SHOOT BUDDY. I SAID YEAH, I LIKE BUDDY. LESTER SAYS I LIKE BUDDY, TOO. BUT THIS COMES OUT OF THE HEADING OF NEIGHBOURLINESS. SO ON THE ONE HAND YOU HAVE NEIGHBOURS... ON THE OTHER HAND IN THE DAYS WHEN WE HAD GUESTS WHEN PEOPLE STILL USED TO SAY TO US WE HAVE TO COME UP FOR THE WEEKEND, WE HAD TO SAY WE DON'T HAVE A POOL, TENNIS COURT, WE DON'T DO NICK EXCEPT RIDE OUR HORSE. "NO, NO, WE'D LOVE IT." PEOPLE WOULD COME UP AND THEY WOULD SAY, THEY WOULD HAVE DINNER FRIDAY NIGHT WITH US AND SATURDAY MORNING THEY'D GET UP AND WE'D BE UP THERE HAVING OUR COFFEE AND THEY'D STAND IN THE KITCHEN AND SAY "WELL WHAT ARE WE DOING TODAY?" AND WE'D LOOK AT THEM AND SAY I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING...

Maureen says THEY'D OFTEN BE GONE BY SATURDAY AFTERNOON, EH?

Michael says ABSOLUTELY. ONCE THEY'D SEEN THE PIGS FED THEY WERE OFF AND GONE BEFORE SATURDAY AFTERNOON.

Maureen says I REALLY ENJOYED THE BOOK. IT WAS A GREAT READ. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN TODAY. THAT'S MICHAEL KORDA, THE AUTHOR OF COUNTRY MATTERS, THE PLEASURES AND TRIBULATIONS OF MOVING FROM a big city to an old country farmhouse. And it's published by Harper Collins.
And that's our program for today. Thanks for watching More to Life. I'm Maureen Taylor, hoping you'll join us Monday through Friday at 1 o'clock.

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