Transcript: Dog Behaviour | Jun 12, 2001

(music plays)

The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: "More to life."

Then, Karen appears in a studio with textured yellow walls and the logo of the show in the background, which reads "More to life."

Karen is in her late thirties, with short dark hair. She's wearing a black blazer over a spotted blouse.

She says HELLO, I'M KAREN HORSMAN SITTING IN FOR MAUREEN TAYLOR. WELCOME TO "MORE TO LIFE." THE CHEWED UP SLIPPER, THE HOLE IN THE GARDEN AND THE CONTROL PATCHES ON YOUR LAWN. THE JOYS OF BEING THE OWNER OF A DOG. THE HOUSE IS BROKEN IN BUT THE DOG ISN'T. NO PROBLEMS, RELAX, JOHN WADE HAS NEVER MET A DOG HE COULDN'T ANALYZE. JOHN IS A DOG BEHAVIOURALIST AND WORKS WITH ABUSED DOGS, STUBBORN DOGS AND SOMETIMES DYSFUNCTIONAL ONES.

John is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short, receding curly blond hair. He's wearing a white shirt and a spotted black tie.

Karen continues IF THAT IS THE CASE WITH YOURS GIVE US A CALL, HERE IN TORONTO 416-484-2727. LONG DISTANCE IS TOLL-FREE, 1-888-411-1234. THAT IS TOLL-FREE. OUR E-MAIL ADDRESS IS MORE TO LIFE, AT TVO.ORG AS WE GO TO THE DOGS HERE TODAY ON MORE TO LIFE.

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
Then, it changes to "moretolife@tvo.org"

Karen continues THANKS FOR COMING IN.

John says THANKS, KAREN.

Karen says DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE BORN DOG PEOPLE AS OPPOSED TO CATS OR ANY OTHER AN PALS THAT YOU GET IN YOUR BLOOD.

The caption changes to "John Wade. Dog Behaviourist."

John says YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK SO. I WOULD HAVE SAID THAT MANY YEARS AGO BUT I CAME A CONVERT TO CATS. I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE EARLIER IN MY LIFE. BUT I LIKE CATS TOO.

Karen says BECAUSE I'M A PASSIONATE DOG LOVER AND I COULD TAKE OR LEAVE A CAT.

John says I HAVE A PREFERENCE BUT I CAN STILL TAKE A CAT IN THE ROOM.

Karen says YOU GET A DOG LOVER AND CAT LOVER AND DEBATE THE BENEFITS, PROS AND CONS OF EACH, IT CAN BE A HEATED DISCUSSION.

John says WE.

Karen says BUT WHEN IT COMES TO CHOOSING TO HAVE A DOG IN YOUR LIFE WHAT SHOULD YOU THINK ABOUT BEFORE YOU TAKE THAT PLUNGE.

John says WELL, TEN TO 15 YEAR COMMITMENT, MINIMUM ANYWAY. SO I WOULD GIVE IT AS MUCH THOUGHT AS I WAS GOING TO GIVE IN I WERE TO HAVE A CHILD OR PICK A SPOUSE, MAYBE NOT AS MUCH BUT IT IS IMPORTANT. I THINK A LOT OF THE ADVICE YOU GET BEFORE YOU GET A DOG, THAT COMES TO MIND IS NOT NECESSARILY ALWAYS ACCURATE. THE PEOPLE TELL YOU YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE A BIG DOG IN A LITTLE APARTMENT. WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS NECESSARILY GOOD ADVICE TO GO BY BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE AN ACTIVE LIFESTYLE, THAN PERHAPS AND YOU LIVE IN AN APARTMENT, THE DOG CAN HAVE AN ACTIVE LIFESTYLE. LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE IN THE BEST SHAPES IN THEIR LIVES, YOUNG, LIVING IN AN APARTMENT AND CAN'T AFFORD A HOUSE THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY INDICATIVE. IF YOU GET A DOG AS A YOUNG COUPLE, AND I GET CALLS A LOT FROM PEOPLE ABOUT TO GET A DOG, YOUNG COUPLES. THEY HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THE DOG HAS A SHORT WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY FROM BECOMING SOCIALIZED WITH ITS ENVIRONMENT, THREE TO 12 WEEKS OF AGE. AND THAT YOUNG COUPLE IS IKELY TO HAVE A CHILD IN THEIR LIFE AT SOME POINT IN THEIR FUTURE. SO SOCIALIZING A YOUNG DOG TOWARDS INFANT, TODDLERS AND CHILDREN ARE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT SO THEY DON'T RUN IN A SITUATION WHERE THE DOG IS FEARFUL AND AGGRESSIVE.

Karen says A LOT OF YOUNG COUPLES GET THE DOG TO WARM THEMSELVES UP TO THE COMMITMENT OF A CHILD. I HEARD THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN AS IF THAT IS THE DRY RUN. IS IT FAIR TO... BECAUSE I OFF HAD THE COMPARISON BETWEEN GETTING A DOG LIKE HAVING A CHILD. THOUGH I HAVE OFTEN THOUGHT THERE SHOULD BE THAT DISTINCTION, ANIMAL-HUMAN. BUT WOULD YOU SAY THAT IT DOES ADJUST YOUR LIFESTYLE AS MUCH.

John says NOT AS MUCH, BUT, I THINK YOU KNOW, WARMS UP, YES, IT PROBABLY DOES GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF, YOU HAVE TO BE CERTAIN PLACES AT CERTAIN TIMES AND THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CARE. NOWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS THERE IS INVOLVED WITH HAVING A CHILD. BUT IT IS A RESPONSIBILITY IN YOUR LIFE THAT... A COMMITMENT.

Karen says SURE IT IS. I WANT TO GO IN MORE LATER IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT IN SOCIALIZING THE DOG TO CHILDREN AND OTHERS. BUT I WANTED TO START OFF, IN OUR DISCUSSION HERE OFF THE TOP ABOUT BREEDING, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS ANYTHING TO THAT THERE IS A BAD DOG. IS THERE SUCH A THING.

John says NO, THERE ARE BAD BREEDERS. THERE IS A LOT OF... BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION, I HAVE READ LOTS OF THIS OVER THE YEARS ABOUT PRUR BREED DOGS BEING IN THE A SOUND MENTALLY OR PHYSICALLY OVER THE LONG-TERM. AND I THINK THAT IF YOU SUBSTITUTED THE WORD PURE BREED FOR POOR BREED THAT WOULD BE TRUE. THERE ARE A LOT OF BAD BREEDERS. AND I SAY BAD NOT NECESSARILY THEY HAVE BAD ATTENTIONS BUT I REALLY DON'T THINK BREEDERS HAVE A GOOD ENOUGH IDEA OF THE ENORMOUS RESPONSIBILITY THEY HAVE IN TAKING AND PUTTING A LIVING CREATURE IN SOMEONE'S LIFE. IF I HAVE A DOG THAT I HAVE ADOPTED AND GONE WITH ALL GOOD INTENTIONS TO PROVIDE A WONDERFUL HOME AND THE BREEDER HAS NOT TAKEN THE CARE TO EXAMINE THE GENETICS CAREFULLY OVER GENERATIONS AND DO THE FOLLOWUP WITH THIS LETTER AND THE PAST LETTERS, WELL, THE LIKELIHOOD AND I SEE THIS ALL THE TIME THAT IS WHY I'M SO ADAMANT IT IS SO IMPORTANT, AT SOME POINT IN THE FIRST TWO TO THREE YEARS OF THAT DOG'S LIFE, SOMETHING PAY HAPPEN THAT THAT DOG MAY NO LONGER BE ABLE TO LIVE IN MY HOUSE. IT MIGHT BE BEHALF REQUEST THAT YOU JUST COULDN'T HAVE IN YOUR HOUSE BUT IT MIGHT BE A PHYSICAL AILMENT LIKE HIP DYSPLASIA WHICH IS SO COMMON AND COULD BE DEALT WITH AND ARE THE SKIN AILMENTS THAT SO MANY DOGS HAVE.

Karen says AND THAT CAN BE BREAD OUT.

John says ABSOLUTELY IT COULD BE. YOU LOOK AT BREEDS LIKE THE ENGLISH BULL TERRIERS THAT ARE KIND OF COOL DOGS WHEN YOU INTERACT WITH THEM, THEY ARE SO ODD LOOKING BUT THEY ARE PLAGUED WITH PHYSICAL AILMENTS. MANY TIMES THEY CAN'T EVEN HAVE THEIR YOUNG NATURALLY THEY HAVE TO BE CAESAREAN SECTIONS BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY HAVE BEEN BREAD. IF THEY CHANGE THE WAY THEY BREED THESE DOGS GENETICALLY THEY MAY CHANGE THE WAY THEY LOOK AND THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THAT I WOULD RATHER HAVE THE DOG LOOK DIFFERENTLY AND BE SOUND THROUGHOUT ITS LIFE AND NOT HAVE TO BREAK MY HEART OR MY SPOUSES HEART OR MY CHILDREN'S HEART AND SAY I'M SORRY, HE HAS TO BE PUT DOWN.

Karen says IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A LAB WHICH IS AN INCREDIBLY POPULAR BREED, YOU GO, YOU DO ALL YOUR RESEARCH, CERTAINLY IT IS SAID TO BE A GOOD IF DID AND IT IS NOT KNOWN FOR ATTACKING CHESH, DOESN'T HAVE PREDATORY INSTINCTS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS BUT WHAT YOU ARE TELLING ME IS THAT IF THAT DOG IS BREAD IMPROPERLY YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE A PROBLEM.

John says AND TEN YEARS AGO I WOULD NEVER HAVE GOT A CALL ABOUT A LAB BEING AGGRESSIVE BUT I GET THEM TOO REGULARLY NOW. I WOULDN'T SAY AS REGULARLY A LOTS OF BREEDS BUT IT WAS UNHEARD OF AT ONE TIME. BUT IT BECAME SUCH A POPULAR FAMILY DOG THAT NOW IT HAPPENS. AND AS A RESULT, YOU DON'T JUST GO AND GET ANY LAB. YOU HAVE TO CHECK TO SEE IF THE LABRADOR BREEDER IS DOING THEIR JOB.

Karen says SO WHEN WE GET INTO THIS DEBATE ABOUT PIT BULLS, ROTTWEILERS AND GERMAN SHEPHERDS, THE BREEDS THAT PEOPLE SAY ARE BAD DOGS.

John says YEAH.

Karen says WHEN YOU GET THE ARGUMENT FROM OWNERS WHO SAY LOOK, OTHERS CAN BE JUST AS AGGRESSIVE IF THEY ARE TREATED POORLY, I HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING THAT 23 THE GENETICS ARE BAD THERE IS POTENTIAL IN THOSE LOW-RISK BREEDS AS WELL THEN.

John says YES BUT THE BREEDS YOU MENTIONED LIKE ROTTWEILERS AND PIT BULLS, I HAVE WORKED WITH ALL KINDS OF THEM AND THEY TEND TO ATTRACT TOO OFTEN AN ELEMENT OF SOCIETY THAT I CALL TESTOSTERONE DEFICIENT AND THEY ARE LOOKING FOR COVERAGE ON A LEASH. AND THEY CAN FROM THE NURTURING AS OPPOSED TO THE GENETIC STANDPOINT CREATE A LITTLE MONSTER. AND YOU OFTEN SEE THEM DOWN THE ROAD BEING DRAGGED BY THEIR DOGS. WELL, THAT IS NOT A SITUATION WHERE THE DOG IS RESPONDING TO WHAT I CALL A CIVILIZED MANNER. THAT IS NOT THE WAY WE WALK DOWN THE STREET. THAT IS AN ELEMENT AND THEN JUST INDISCRIMINATE BREEDING. IN NORTH AMERICA, UNFORTUNATELY, TO BE A PROFESSIONAL BREEDER YOU ONLY ARE REQUIRED TO PASS ONE TEST. AND THAT IS THE ABILITY TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MALE AND FEMALE DOG. AND THAT IS AS TOUGH AS IT GETS AROUND HERE. SO IT SHOULD BE A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT AN INDUSTRY LIKE THE FARMING INDUSTRY WHERE YOU HAVE GOT HOLDSTEIN COWS. THOSE COWS ARE MEASURED FROM STEM TO STERN AND EVERYTHING, EVEN BEHAVIOUR ON HOW EASY OR DIFFICULT THEY ARE TO MILK. AND A FARMER WANTS TO BREED HIS COW HE CAN GO TO A DATABASE ON THE INTERNET AND GET A REAL GOOD IDEA OF WHAT HE IS GETTING BEFORE HE GOES TO THE NEXT STEP.

Karen says BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT WITH OUR DOGS.

John says NOT WITH THE PETS WE PUT IN OUR OWN HOMES.

Karen says THERE IS SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH THAT.

John says THAT IS TRUE.

Karen says LET'S GO TO KAREN AS WE TALK ABOUT DOGS HEAR ON MORE TO LIFE TODAY, HI, KAREN.

The Caller says HI.
I HAVE A SIX MONTH OLD POMERANIAN WHO LIKES TO ATTACK PEOPLE. HE WILL NOT BITE BUT HE GETS VERY VOCAL AND HE WILL CHEW ON THEM BUT HE WON'T BITE BITE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH HIM.

Karen says A SIX MONTH OLD POMERANIAN. NOT A VERY BIG DOG.

John says BUT NOBODY EVER EXPLAINED THAT TO THE DOG. SO HE DOESN'T KNOW THAT YET.

Karen says OKAY, SIX MONTHS YOU WERE SAYING IN THE ITS THAT IS THE TIME FOR BEHAVIOUR.

John says IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, I WOULD WANT TO LEARN ABOUT THE DOG'S EARLY SOCIALIZATION. YOU CAN TELL ME, KAREN, WHEN YOU GOT THIS DOG HOW OLD WAS IT.

The Caller says HE WAS SIX WEEKS.

John says SIX WEEKS OF AGE. AND DID HE COME FROM A BREEDER IN A RURAL ENVIRONMENT OR A CITY ENVIRONMENT.

The Caller says RURAL.

John says AND DO YOU LIVE IN THE CITY.

The Caller says NO.

John says OKAY. IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD WHEN YOUR DOG BETWEEN THE TIME THE DOG WAS SIX WEEKS WHEN YOU GOT THE DOG AND FOR THE NEXT SIX WEEKS, 12 WEEKS OF AGE DID YOU HAVE A LOT OF VISITORS.

The Caller says YEAH.

John says SO THE DOG WAS WELL EXPOSED TO OTHER PEOPLE.

The Caller says UH-HUH.

John says SO LET'S ASSUME THE DOG, THIS ISN'T A SOCIALIZATION PROBLEM. LET'S ASSUME THE DOG JUST HAS BAD MANNERS AND HASN'T LEARNED HOW TO MEET PEOPLE AND SO HE IS VOCAL AND ORAL AROUND THEM. ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS FROM A DOG'S PERSPECTIVE IS TO DECIDE, YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT HEAR ME USE TERMS LIKE YOU HAVE TO BE DOMINANT OR ALL IF PACT LEADER. YOU HAVE TO BE THE TEACHER, THE DOG THE STUDENT. BUT A DOG DECIDES WHO IS THE TEACHER IN ITS LIFE BY SEEING WHO IS THE FASTEST AND THE MOST AGILE. AND EVEN WITH A SIX MONTH OLD POMERANIAN NOT MANY PEOPLE WILL MATCH THAT SPEED AND ABILITY. SO THE DOG SAYS I CAN CATCH THE SQUIRREL BETTER THAN YOU K KAREN, THEREFORE I WILL BE THE TEACHER. SO WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO TEACH THIS DOG WHAT WOULD BE A CIVILIZED WAY TO BEHAVE AT THE FRONT DOOR AND THAT IS A DIFFICULT SPOT FOR ANY DOG T IS THE DISNEYLAND OF THE DOG WORLD. THE GATES TO THE EXCITEMENT. AND SO IF YOU WANT TO GET THAT DOG'S ATTENTION YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOME WAY OF ACCESSING YOUR STUDENT BEFORE YOU BEGIN ANY TYPE OF LESSON. OR ELSE IT IS GOING TO BE LOST. SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS IF YOUR DOG IS SUPERVISED AND BY THAT I MEAN WITH THE SAME DILIGENCE WOULD YOU SUPERVISE A TWO-YEAR-OLD CHILD IN YOUR HOME, YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING. SO THERE IS NO FALLING DOWN THE STAIRS TYPE THING. SO WITH THIS DOG YOU CLIP A LEASH ON, I WOULD GUESS ABOUT SIX FEET LONG AND LET THE DOG DRAG THE LEASH AROUND THE HOUSE.

Karen says OR LEASH THE DOG IN THE HOUSE.

John says JUST LET HIM DRAG IT AROUND LIKE AN EXTRA TAIL. SO THAT IF YOU NEED THE DOG'S ATTENTION YOU CAN PICK UP THE LEASH. YOU SEE TRADITIONALLY PEOPLE USE LEASHES AND COLOURS TO CORRECT THEIR DOGS. AND THAT IS SILLINESS. YOU POP ON A LEASH AND YANK A LEASH, WELL, THAT TO ME IS LIKE YANKING MY SHIRTSLEEVE TO GET MY ATTENTION. THAT IS A ONE OF USE BUT WHEN YOU DON'T RESPOND AFTER THAT POINT, THE DOG DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD GRASP OF WHAT IT IS YOU ARE TRYING TO COMMUNICATE. THE LEASH IS THERE TO KEEP MY STUDENT IN THE CLASSROOM AND GET MY STUDENT'S ATTENTION. ONCE I HAVE THEIR ATTENTION, LET'S SAY WE ARE AT THE FRONT DOOR, THE DOG IS ABOUT TO LEAP TOWARDS THE GUEST.

Karen says AND START CHEWING.

John says AND START CHEWING, I STEP ON THE LEASH SO THE DOG CAN'T GET THERE FOR ONE THING. THE OTHER IS I WILL TAKE THE LEASH AND GIVE IT A POP HARD ENOUGH TO GET THE DOG'S ATTENTION OFF THE GUEST AND ON TO ME. AND IN THAT DISNEYLAND ENVIRONMENT, THAT COULD BE A PRETTY FAIR POP. AND THE DOG WILL TUSH AROUND AND BASICALLY GO WHAT, OH MY GOODNESS, YOU LOOK TICKED OFF, KAREN. AND THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT. YOU WANT THE COMMUNICATION TO BE DONE THROUGH YOUR TONE AND YOUR BODY LANGUAGE. AND THEN YOU JUST WANT TO RELAX AND HAVE A GOOD DOG, YOU ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO ME NOW, AND THEN SAY TO YOUR GUEST, TRY AND GET HIS ATTENTION AGAIN. SO HE DOESN'T MAKE THE MISTAKE AGAIN. THEN GIVE HIM A LITTLE REPUTATION BECAUSE HE IS A DOG, HE UNDER STANT... DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ENGLISH, HE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT YOU BEHAVING ODDLY BUT PERHAPS HIS BEHAVIOUR.

Karen says BUT THAT IS LIKE THE DUG ON THE SHIRT.

John says TO GET THE ATTENTION.

Karen says BUT YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW UP.

John says WITH TONE AND BODY LANGUAGE BECAUSE DOGS MUNE KATE PREDOMINANTLY THROUGH TONE AND BODY LANGUAGE.

Karen says OTHERWISE THE DOG JUST THINKS MY OWNER IS YANKING ON MY CONSTANTLY, I DON'T...

John says THEY BECOME HANDLER AGGRESSIVE AS A RESULT. BECAUSE THEY GET FRUSTRATED WITH YOU AND SO THEY GO AFTER THE HANDLER. ANOTHER WONDERFUL TRICK FOR THE FRONT DOOR, KAREN AND I WILL SHARE THIS WITH YOU, IS THOSE DOORBELLS THAT WIRELESS, YOU CAN BUY THEM WITH TWO DOORBELLS. ATTACH ONE TO YOUR FRONT DOOR SO THE DOG GETS USE ODD TO THE DOORBELL RINGING AND TAKE THE SECOND ONE AND ATTACH IT TO YOUR CHANNEL CHANGER. WHEN YOU ARE WATCHING TELEVISION, JUST SIT, RELAX, WHEN THE COMMERCIALS COME ON RING THE... NOT 245 THERE ARE COMMERCIALS ON TVO BUT RING THE DOORBELL AND WHEN THE DOG RESPONDS IN THE BEGINNINGS OF LOSS OF CONTROL YOU STEP ON THE LAERB AND SAY GET BACK HERE.
SO YOU BEGIN THE PROCESS...

Karen says YOU ARE CREATING THE ENVIRONMENT.

John says BY THE END OF THE WEEK, WHEN THE DOORBELL RINGS, THE DOG WILL LOOK AND SAY ARE WE GOING, DO YOU WANT ME TO COME WITH YOU. AND YOU BEGIN A PROCESS WHERE THE DOG IS EXERTING SOME SELF-CONTROL BECAUSE RIGHT NOW AS SOON AS THAT... THE DOORBELL RINGS OR THE DOOR IS KNOCKED, THE DOG BEGINS TO LOSE IT RIGHT THERE.

Karen says SO YOU ADVOCATE THE LEASH IN THE HOUSE, THE LEASH USE IS PART OF THE TRAINING.

John says YES.

Karen says IS THAT THE SAME PHILOSOPHY WITH THE CRATE ABOUT THE CRATE USED TO BE CONSIDERED COOL, THAT WHY WOULD YOU... CRUEL, WHY WOULD YOU LOOK YOUR ANIMAL AWAY IN YOUR HOME, IS THAT THE SAME TYPE OF THINKING, YOU CREATE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT OR CAN YOU USE IT AS A BAD DOINGIE PEN.

John says I WOULD NEVER USE IT AS PUNISHMENT. TO ME IT IS A SANK TOMB FOR A DOG, I DO IT SO THE DOG THROUGHOUT ITS LIFE HAS AN AREA IT CAN GO TO FOR QUIET. LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE VERY RELUCTANT AND DON'T NEED THE CRATE FOR HOUSE TRAINING IN THE EARLY STAGES. THEY STILL REGRET NOT HAVING ONE BECAUSE I NEVER MET A DOG THAT AT SOME POINT IN ITS LIFE DIDN'T HAVE SOME INJURY WHERE THE VET DIDN'T SAY YOU NEED YOUR DOG TO BE STILL FOR A COUPLE WEEKS. WELL THEN IF YOU START CRATING THE DOG IS INCREDIBLY STRESSED BECAUSE IT IS A STRANGE ENVIRONMENT. PROPERLY INTRODUCED A CRATE WILL PROVIDE YOUR DOG WITH A CALM ENVIRONMENT DURING TIMES OF CHANGE. SO I MOVE FROM ONE HOME TO ANOTHER. WELL, THERE IS THAT STABLE AREA. A CRATE BECOMES A WONDERFUL TOOL IF IT IS INTRODUCE IN POSITIVE WAY SO THE DOG SEES IT AS HIS PLACE. IN THE DOG'S MIND THERE IS A VCR IN THIS CORNER, A TV ON THIS SIDE T IS THEIR PLACE.

Karen says HERE IS MY PLACE, THIS IS MY HOME.

John says EXACTLY.
WELL, IF I DO THAT, THEN I'M GOING TO HAVE A DOG THAT I CAN PUT IN MOMENTS WHEN I CAN'T TEACH, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT GUEST AT THE DOOR AND I CAN'T TEACH HIM HOW TO BE CIVILIZED SO BOUNCER, GO TO BED, GOOD DOG. BE IN THERE FOR A SECOND.

Karen says BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT... ARE YOU NOT GOING TO BEHAVE, GO IN THERE.

John says NO, NO, IT IS LIKE GO TO YOUR ROOM, WELL...

Karen says IT IS NOT A TIME OUT.

John says I WOULD RATHER TEACH THAN PUNISH.

Karen says OKAY, GREAT, THANKS VERY MUCH. THAT WAS A SUPERANSWER.
TO SUE CALLING FROM WATERLOO.

The Caller says HI, I HAVE A WONDERFUL DOG THAT WE ADOPTED SHE IS ABOUT EIGHT YEARS OLD NOW, WE HAVE HAD HER FOR THREE YEARS HAD CAME FROM AN ABUSIVE HOME AND DOESN'T PLAY WITH TOYS. IT IS REALLY QUITE QUITE SAD BECAUSE SCHE IS A BORDER COLIE CROSS, VERY WONDERFUL, VERY CARING AND WE REALLY WISH SHE WOULD CHASE A BALL. YOU COULD BOUNCE A TENNIS BALL IN FRONT OF HER NOSE AND SHE DOESN'T EVEN LOOKED AT IT.

Karen says YOU TALKED IN TERMS OF THE HISTORY OF ABUSE. LET ME PUT THIS TO JOHN AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK.

John says I DON'T, AGAIN, WITHOUT GETTING A GOOD HISTORY ON THIS DOG WE MAY NOT DISCOVER AS TO WHY THE DOG DOESN'T PLAY WITH TOYS. IF THE DOG IS A HAPPY DOG AND IS RELATIVELY STRESS-FREE IN ITS LIFE THERE... IS STRESS-FREE IN ITS LIFE, I WOULDN'T REALLY WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT WHETHER IT IS PLAYING WITH TOYS OR NOT. AND OLDER DOGS, THEY LAYOFF THE TOY PLAYING. BUT IT IS A BORDER COLIE AND THEY HAVE VERY, VERY ACTIVE MINDS AND THEY WILL OFTEN PLAY WITH TOYS A LOT LONGER THAN OTHER DOGS. SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET CREATIVE. IS REQUEST DOGGERELTIVELY STRESS-FREE.

The Caller says NOW SHE IS, CERTAINLY WHEN WE FIRST GOT HER.

John says NO, SHE WOULDN'T BE.

The Caller says SHE WAS QUITE STRESSED.

John says I ALWAYS CONSIDER SITUATIONS LAKE THIS FOR THE DOG WORLD, THE DOG'S VERSION OF WINNING A LOTTERY, GOING FROM A HORRIBLE ENVIRONMENT TO OH MY GOODNESS, WHERE AM I. THIS IS GREAT.

Karen says LOVING PEOPLE.

John says THIS IS FANTASTIC. BUT IF YOU... WANT TO TRY SOME THINGS. WHAT SORT OF TOYS HAVE YOU TRIED.

The Caller says WE HAVE GOT ONE OF THOSE CHRISTMAS STOCKINGS WHERE EVERYTHING WAS SEALED IN THE SAME PLASTIC BAG AND THAT WASN'T BAD BECAUSE EVERYTHING SMELT LIKE CHEW TOYS LIKE TREATS.

John says DOES SHE LIKE TREATS.

The Caller says SHE LOVES TREATS.

John says HAVE YOU EVER TRIED A GOODIE SHIP.
THERE IS A COMPANY DOWN IN FLORIDA AND I USED TO USE THE KNOGS AND I LIKE THEM AS TOYS BUT YOU CAN PUT A... THESE ARE SET UP, I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT ONE TO SHOW YOU, I DID ONCE ON THE SHOW. YOU CAN STUFF A COOKIE IN IT. AND WHAT IT DOES IS THE DOG HAS TO IT FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THIS COOKIE OUT THERE OF. BECAUSE IT IS JAMMED IN QUITE SOLID. AND IT GENERALLY TAKES THE DOG ABOUT HALF AN HOUR TO GET IT ALL OUT. AND THAT... HALF HOUR SEEMS TO BE A CRITICAL TIME FRAME FOR A DOG TO CHEW ON SOMETHING WHERE I FEEL AFTER THE HALF HOUR THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH STRESS-FREE, THEY ARE HAD A GOOD RUN, WORKOUT, MENTALLY ANYWAY. THE OTHER THING I HAVE TRIED AND I HAVE DONE THIS IN SHELTERS WITH DOGS THAT HAVE BEEN JUST BESIDE... BESIDE THEMSELVES AT BEING CONFINED. INSTEAD OF 2350EDING THEM IN A BOWL I WOULD SUPERVISED POUR THEIR FOOD INTO AN EMPTY POP... YOU KNOW, THOSE ONE AND A HALF LEADER PLASTIC CONTAINERS AND SO I WOULD PUT ALL THE KIB NELL THAT AND FEED IT TO THEM LIKE THAT AND THE DOG WILL LOOK AT IT AND...

Karen says YOU MEAN OUT OF THE SPOUT.

John says POUR IT INSIDE SO THAT THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN GET IT OUT IS TO SHAKE THIS THING AND A PIECE FLIES OUT. AND WITH A DOG IN THE SHELL TER, WHAT I'M THIS OF WAS A DOG THAT TRIED TO ESCAPE SO BADLY THAT HE WAS BEING STITCHED UP EVERY MORNING. AND HE WAS TRYING TO GET THROUGH THIS WIRE MESH, SO WE STARTED FEEDING HIM AND IT JUST RELIEVED THE STRESSED. HE HAD TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET HIS FAD OUT AND HE WOULD SHAKE IT AROUND AND A PIECE WOULD COME OUT AND AFTER A WHILE IT JUST SORT OF GOT HIS FOCUS. AND THE REASON HE WAS SO WOUND UP IS THE SHELL TER WAS IN LOCKDOWN BECAUSE THEY HAD I THINK A VIRUS IN THERE AND COULDN'T LET THE DOGS OUTSIDE. SO THIS WAS A WAY OF GETTING THE DOG'S MIND ACTIVATED FOR A DOG THAT REALLY NEEDED STIMULATION.

Karen says I HAVE SEEN TREATS WHERE THEY HAVE ALMOST LIKE A CREAMY SUBSTANCE THROUGH THE MIDDLE AND THE DOG LICKS IT OUT.

John says MARROW BONE SIMULATION TYPE OF THING.
THEY ARE BASICALLY IN AND GONE. I WOULD GO FOR SOMETHING THAT PARTICULARLY BECAUSE IT IS A BORDER COLIE, TO TRY AND GET THAT MENTAL STIMULATION GOING, GIVE THAT DOG... BOARDIE COLIES ARE CAN. THEY HAVE THE PHYSIQUES OF AN OLYMPIAN AND THE MINDS OF A MENSA SO THOSE ARE DOGS THAT REALLY GET A LOT OF STIMULATION AND PEOPLE GET THEM AND GO MY GOODNESS, WHAT HAVE I DONE.

Karen says THE INTELLIGENCE FACTOR, IS IT TRUE THAT YOU CAN TELL I GREW UP WITH A LAB, IS IT TRUE THAT THEIR MENTAL CAPACITY IS ON THE SORT OF LOW SCALE.

John says I WOULDN'T SAY SO AT ALL. THE WORKING BREED OF DOG, YOU SEE THEM ON POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND THEY REALLY DO A GOOD JOB FOR SEARCH-AND-RESCUE, THAT SORT OF THING. THEY ARE AN INTELLIGENT BREED OF DOG. BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, INTELLIGENCE CAN BE MISCONSTRUED, TRAIN ABLE MIGHT BE THE TERM TO USE FOR THEM. THE LITTLE JACK RUSSELL TERRIER THAT I HAVE GOT, FROM WHAT I CAN SEE HE IS AS SMART AS ANY GER PAN SHEPHERD I HAD BUT HE IS JUST SELECTIVE AS TO HOW WILL APPLY THAT. AND HE SEEMS TO CONSIDER THINGS BEFORE HE DOES IT HE IS LIKE I WILL GET BACK TO YOU, JOHN. I MEAN IT IS THERE, THE INTELLIGENCE IS THERE ABOUT HE CAN DO AMAZING THINGS BUT IT IS JUST A DIFFERENT TYPE OF ALTITUDE IN LIFE.

Karen says BECAUSE MORDECHAI WOULD BARK AT SHIRTS HUNG ON THE HANGERS THAT WERE DRYING AFTER THE LAUNDRY WHEN MY GRANDMOTHER WOULD FINISH SO SHE WOULD PUT IT ON THERE AND HE WOULD HOWL BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WAS A PERSON. SO EVERYONE WOULD TEASE HIM AND SAY THAT HE WASN'T VERY CLEVER. BUT ARE YOU SAYING IT IS MORE ABOUT TRAIN ABILITY IN TERMS OF HOW THEY WOULD RESPOND TO SOMETHING THEY ARE TRYING TO TEACH THEM AS OPPOSED TO BARKING AT A SHIRT.

John says YEAH. ANY DOG CAN BE TAUGHT HOW TO BE CIVILIZED BUT IF YOU WANT YOUR DOG TO JUMP THROUGH HOOPS OF FIRE THEN YOU SELECT A CERTAIN TYPE OF DOG BUT BOY, LABS WOULD BE... THEY ARE EASY DOGS TO TRAIN SO, WILLING TO PLEASE.

Karen says TO HAZEL NEXT. WE TALK DOGS, HI, HAZEL.

The Caller says HI, GREAT SHOW I'M LEARNING LOTS TODAY. WE ARE CONSIDERING ADOPTING A DOG FROM ONE OF THE SHELTERS AND I HAVE A TWO-YEAR-OLD AND FOUR-YEAR-OLD BOTH DAUGHTERS. AND WE HAVE A SMALL REQUESTED BUT THERE IS A LARGE PARK BY US AND YOU KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WALK DOGS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT I'M JUST WONDERING FOR OUR LIFESTYLE AND ALSO FROM THE SHELL TER WHAT KIND OF THINGS SHOULD I BE LOOKING FOR IN ADOPTING A DOG BECAUSE I AM SURE MOST DOGS ARE MIXED BREEDS. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT ARE SOME OF THE FACTORS WE SHOULD CONSIDER IN ADOPTING.

Karen says THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION IN TERMS OF A FAMILY DOG, TWO YOUNG CHILDREN.

John says AND I WOULD STEP VERY, VERY CAREFULLY. BECAUSE IT IS DIFFICULT IN SHELTERS. AND I HAVE DONE TONS OF VOLUNTEER WORK. IT IS DIFFICULT TO GET ALWAYS A HISTORY OR AN ACCURATE HISTORY ON THE DOG. WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU IS TO KNOW HOW THAT DOG BEHAVED AROUND CHILDREN, AROUND YOUR CHILDREN'S AGE. BECAUSE A DOG DOESN'T NECESSARILY SEE A HUMAN AS A HUMAN. DOGS SEE AN ADULT, AN INFANT, A TODDLER AND A CHILD AS BEING ALL DIFFERENT THINGS. AND THEY ARE EXPOSED TO ONE AND IT IS PLEASANT, THEY WILL BE FINE GENERALLY FOR LIFE. IF THEY ARE EXPOSED AND IT IS UNPLEASANT AND THAT IS AIR ONLY EXPOSURE DURING THEIR SOCIALIZATION PERIOD, THAT WILL BE SOMETHING YOU CAN'T CHANGE. YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT. AND THEN ARE YOU HEADING FOR HEARTACHE. SO IN THE SHELL TERS WHAT I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IS JUST TAKE YOUR TIME, THE DOG IS OUT THERE N A SHELL TER, THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. BUT WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR SAY DOG THAT YOU CAN GET A BUSINESS OF A HISTORY ON WHERE IT CAME FROM A HOME THAT IS SIMILAR TO YOURS AND THE REASON THEY GAVE IT UP WAS NOT BECAUSE IT DIDN'T GET ALONG WITH CHILDREN. AND I WOULD TEND TO... I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE THE DOG ON A TRIAL JUST TO SEE HOW IT INTERACTS. SEE HOW THE DOG INTERACTS WITH YOUR CHILDREN ON A LEAD WITH A COLLAR WHICH WON'T SLIP OVER ITS HEAD IN THE SHELL TER AND THEN TAKE THE DOG OUT ON TO THE GRASSY AREA IF THIS HE HAVE GOT IT IN DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS.

Karen says AND SHELTER WILL ALLOW TO YOU DO THAT. THEY ALLOW THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT.

John says I THINK THAT MOST SHELTERS I HAVE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH WILL ENCOURAGE THAT. BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE THE DOGS COMING BACK EITHER. BUT AND THEN KEEP IN MIND AS WELL THE WAY THE DOG BEHAVES IN THE SHELL TER CAN BE ABSOLUTELY OPPOSITE WITHIN ABOUT 72 HOURS OF WHEN YOU GET IT HOME.

Karen says OH, NO...

John says YOU PUT ME IN SOMEBODY'S HOUSE WHERE I DON'T KNOW, I AM GOING TO BE MINDING MY Ps AND Qs AND BE A LITTLE ON EDGE FOR THE FIRST LITTLE WHILE. BUT I WILL START TO GET A LITTLE RELAXED, MY FEET WILL BE ON THE COFFEE TABLE MAYBE AS SOON AS THEY SHOULD BE.
THE DOG MIGHT VERY WELL BE VERY, VERY GOOD FOR THE FIRST THREE DAYS AND HE MIGHT SIGN OFF ON IT BUT YOU NEED TO SORT OF LIVE WITH EACH OTHER FOR A WILE.

Karen says THE ADJUSTMENT PERIOD.

John says AND WHEN ARE YOU HOME YOU WANT TO SEE IF THE DOG HAS BEEN CRATE TRAINED, A WONDERFUL ASSET IN MAKING THE INTRODUCTION TO YOUR KIDS THE YOU WANT THAT DOG DRAGGING A LEASH AROUND THAT HOUSE UNTIL YOU ARE 100 PERCENT CONFIDENT THAT THAT DOG IS A FAMILY DOG. SO THAT IF THE DOG WERE TO SHOW SOME AGGRESSION OUT OF THE BLUE AND YOU WEREN'T PREPARED FOR IT, WITH THAT ADDED SIX FOOT OF LEASH THERE IT CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CHILD BEING HURT OR NOT.

Karen says ARE YOU OKAY WITH JUST STOMP ON THAT LEASH TO GET THE DOG.

John says I WILL DIVE FOR IT IF I'VE GOT TO IF THE DOG IS DOING SOMETHING SILLY.

Karen says Silly VERSUS AGGRESSIVE. I WOULD RUB UP AND BRAN IT AROUND THE NECK IF IT WAS GOING TOWARDS MY CHILD.

John says YOU WHAT GET BITTEN IF YOU DID THAT. WITH THE LEASH EVERYBODY STAYS SAFE AS A RULE. PUTTING THAT LEAD ON IS... THAT IS KIND OF A WEIRD THING TO DO, JOHN. BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WE ALL WORE LEADS WHEN WE WERE LITTLE. WE JUST DIDN'T REALIZE IT. I MEAN MY LEASH IS STILL ON, YOU JUST CAN'T SEE IT. MY MOTHER WHO I'M FASTER AND MORE AGILE THAN SAYS JOHN, CH CLEAN THE EAVES TROUGH I AM THERE BECAUSE SHE WAS ABLE TO INFLUENCE ME THAT SHE HAD THE SPEED, THE AGILITY, THE POWER, THE BETTER DECISION-MAKING IN THOSE EARLY STAGES. AND IT IMPRINTS. IT IMPRINTS ON YOU AS A HUMAN. IF YOU CAN LEAVE THAT LEAD ON THE DOG LONG ENOUGH IN ITS EARLY DAYS WITH YOU, THE DOG JUST GROWS UP BELIEVING THAT YOU ARE THE PERSON THEY SHOULD LOOK AND LISTEN TO.

Karen says BUT ARE YOU NOT IN SPORT OF DOMINANCE, YOU MADE THAT CLEAR. IT IS NOT ABOUT TEACHING WHO IS BOSS.

John says THERE ARE THREE ELEMENTS TO MY PHILOSOPHY. ONE IS I WANT TO TEACH PIE DOG TO BE CIVILIZED. THAT MIGHT BE JUST TO LIE DOWN AND STAY PUT WHILE WE ARE HAVING A CHAT SO THE DOG IS TO THE JUMPING ON PEOPLE. THAT IS ONLY PART OF THE GOAL. I CAN DO THAT IN A VARIETY OF WAYS. I CAN USE FOOD, FORCE, FEAR TO DO THAT. BUT THOSE THINGS WOULD BE MORALLY WRONG FOR ME, PHILOSOPHICALLY WRONG BECAUSE I THINK IN ORDER TO TEACH, WHETHER I'M TEACHING MY SONS OR SOMEBODY A LITTLE BIT OF A DOG TRAINING OR A DOG, I HAVE TO NOT ONLY TRANSMIT LESSON BUT I HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE DOG'S SELF-CONFIDENCE THROUGH THE LESSON AND I HAVE TO BUILD OR MAINTAIN THE DOG'S CONFIDENCE IN ME AS THE TEACHER. I CAN MAKE A DOG STAY BY MAKING HIM FEAR ME. HE WON'T MOVE BECAUSE HE IS SCARED TO MOVE. BUT WHEN I'M WORKING ON TEACHING A DOG TO STAY NOW, I CAN TELL THEY ARE IN THE GAME PLAN BECAUSE THEY WILL TRY THINGS. 9 DOG WILL BE LYING DOWN SAYING OKAY, THIS IS DOWN. AND THEY WILL START TO GROWL. DOG, I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR TRYING BUT NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEAN.

Karen says YOU DON'T AGREE WITH FEAR FOR THAT.

John says NO, WELL, A MOTHER DOG WOULD NOT SUCCEED... SEE, THE CONCEPTS OF FLIPPING A DOG OVER AND PINNING THEM DOWN AND STARING THEM IN THE EYE ARE BASED ON THESE OBSERVATIONS IN THE WILD WITH WOLVES DURING THIS DOMINANCE RULE, THE ALPHA ROLE. WELL, THAT IS... OKAY, THAT HAPPENS BUT WHAT THEY ARE LEAVING OUT IS ALL LITTLE INTRICATE METHODS OF PROBLEM SOLVING THAT THEY USE THAT LEAD UP TO THAT POINT. AND IN MOST CASES, THEY RESOME THE PROBLEM WITHOUT GETTING TO THAT POINT. SO YES, IF I FLIP THE DOG OVER AND DOMINATE THROUGH FEAR AND AGGRESSION, AND DOMINANCE THERE, THE DOG MAY ACQUIESCE BUT THE DOG IS GOING MAN, WHY DID YOU FLIP OUT SO QUICKLY THAT IS INCREDIBLY STRESSFUL. TRADITIONAL TRAINING SAYS DON'T TRAIN YOUR DOG FOR MORE THAN TEN OR 15 MINUTES AT A TIME, THREE OR FOUR TIMES A DAY MAXIMUM. WELL, IF YOU TOLD A MOTHER DOG TO DO THAT IN THE WILD, HER PUPPIES WOULDN'T SURVIVE A MONTH. THEY WOULD NEVER LEARN ENOUGH SKILLS IN ORDER TO SURVIVE. THE REASON YOU HAVE TO DO THAT WITH TRAINING, AND I INCLUDE FOOD WITH THAT, IS THAT IT IS MORE STRESSFUL THAN IT NEED BE AND THE DOG NEESD REST PERIODS. BUT WE DON'T MAKE APPOINTMENTS WITH OUR CHILDREN ABOUT WHEN STOVES ARE HOT, SON. WE DO IT WHILE WE ARE COOKING DINNER BECAUSE WE HAVE ACCESS TO THE CHILD. WITH THE LEASH DRAGGING WE CAN... OH, COME HEAR DOG, WE DON'T CHEW THIS LEG, GOOD DOG, DROP THE LEASH, GIVE THE DOG A CHANCE TO MAKE THE MISTAKE AGAIN.
AND SO... NO AND THE DOG DOESN'T UNDERSTAND YOU WERE SAYING YOU COULD SAY FRED FLINTSTONE, IT WOULDN'T MATTER. AND THEN PEBBLES, ALABAMA, IN A WARM TONE SO THE DOG UNDERSTANDS. I TELL PEOPLE THE GAME WE PLAY WITH 8-YEAR-OLDS. YOU ARE WARM, COLD. WELL, IF YOU PLAY THAT GAME WITH A CHILD YOU WILL SEE ONCE THEY FIND THE LAMP, IF THE LAMP IS THE OBJECT THEY WILL LIGHT UP LIKE THE LAMP. I FOUND T UNCLE JOHN. DO IT AGAIN, PICK SOMETHING HARDER. THAT IS GOOD, YOU HAVE ENGAGED YOUR STUDENT. YOU BUILT THEIR SELF-CONFIDENCE AND IN THE TEACHER IS THERE. IF I PLAYED THE GAME WAS G YOU ARE COLD, THEN THEY GET FRUSTRATED BECAUSE IT WOULD TAKE A LOT LONGER. IF I TOLD THEM YOU ARE WARM AND NOT COLD THEY WOULD STILL GET FRUSTRATED. WE NEED BOTH SIDES OF THE EQUATION WHETHER WE ARE DOGS OR KID, YOU ARE WARM, COLD, NO, GOOD, NO, GOOD, AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU ME OR FEMALE USING THIS APPROACH, YOU HAVE THE NUANCE AN TONE. WOMEN ARE MUCH BETTER DOUG HANDLERS AND TRAINERS ONCE THEY GET PAST ALL THE NONSENSE THAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD TRADITIONALLY BECAUSE WOMEN ARE SO GOOD AT TONE AND BODY LANGUAGE. THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT READING IT I CAN GO TO A PARTY WAY WOMAN AND COME BACK AND DISCUSS THE PARTY AND NOT BELIEVE WE WERE AT THE SAME PLACE BECAUSE SHE PICKS UP THINGS AT A DIFFERENT LEVEL IT IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. ANY MAN THAT DENIES THAT IS LYING.

Karen says I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE SHELTER BECAUSE WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH OUR LAST CALLER IN TERMS OF THE ADOPTING, THAT IS WHAT EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN TERMS OF THOSE THAT WORK IN THE SHELL TER. EVERY DOG SHOULD HAVE A HOME THAT IS IN A SHELL TER BUT IN TERMS OF... YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT I READ YOUR BODY LANGUAGE.

John says YES, YOU DID. YES, I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THAT I THINK THAT IS THEORY WILF BUT MY EXPERIENCE IS THAT TOO MANY OF THE DOGS THAT FIND THEIR WAY INTO SHELTERS HAVE PROBLEMS THAT WILL NOT BE RESOLVED. AND WHETHER THEY GO DON'TED OR NOT, PROBABLY IF THEY WERE TRACKED, STATISTICALLY, MOST OF THEM DON'T MAKE IT TO ADULT HOOD. THIS IS A WHOLE AREA OF DISCUSSION, I REALLY THINK THAT OUR SHELTERS HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO AND IT HAS TO... I THINK THEIR FOCUS AS MUCH AS THESE ANIMALS NEED CARE, THE CURE MERE IS MANDATORY PAY/NEUTER AND TO KUNTION O BREEDERS BEING MORE RESPONSIBLE. BECAUSE THAT IS THE ACTUAL CAUSEMENT WE ARE ASKED TO DEAL WITH THE EFFECT AND IT ABSORBS THE HELL TERSE FUNDS SO THEY HAVE NOTHING LEFT OVER.

Karen says THE END RESULT IS WHAT WE SEE IN SHELTERS, HAVING TOO MANY DOG WAS HOMES.

John says SO YOU GET PEOPLE WHO WORK IN SHELTERS THAT WITH EVERY ESSENCE OF THEIR BEING WANT TO PLACE THESE ANIMALS AND THEY BURN OUT. SHELTERS ARE TOUGH, TOUGH PLACES TO WORK.

Karen says BUT IN TERMS OF HAVING A PERSON GO TO A SHELL TER AND SAY LOOK, I'M HAD IF A DOG FOR A FAMILY T IS ABOUT RESEARCH, IT IS ABOUT DOING SOME LEGWORK BEFORE YOU GET THERE, IT IS ABOUT INTERACTION ONCE ARE YOU THERE. BUT YOU WOULD RECOMMEND IT IN TERMS OF GOING THE BREEDER ROUTE AND PET SHOP ROUTE.

John says PET SHOP I WOULD HAVE TO SAY NO THERE. PET SHOPS I FIND THAT THERE IS A LOT OF ANCILLARY THINGS THAT HAPPEN TO DOGS IN A PET SHOP THAT EFFECT BEHAVIOUR. GENERAL TLE THEIR DURING THE SOCIALIZATION PERIOD AND THEY GENERALLY HAVE INCREDIBLE ASSORTMENT OF PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF THEIR ENVIRONMENT. AND THAT CAN BE RESOLVED BUT ALSO I FIND THAT THE MONEY THEY CHARGE FOR THESE DOGS OF QUESTIONABLE GENETICS IS UNCONSCIONABLE IT IT IS WRONG. AND THERE MAY BE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE. I HAVEN'T RUN INTO THEM THOUGH. AND IT IS JUST YOU CAN'T GET ENOUGH INFORMATION FROM A PET SHOP TO MAKE THAT DECISION IN MY OPINION. I WANT TO MEET THE BREEDER. I WANT TO MEET THE BREEDER, THE MOTHER AND FATHER DOG, I WANT TO GO SEE OTHER LITTERS IF THEY HAVE HAD... IF THAT MOTHER AND FATHER HAVE HAD LITTERS, I WANT TO TALK TO PEOPLE... I REALLY LIKE TO SEE RESEARCH DONE BEFORE WE GET THE PET. THAT IS HARDER TO DO IN A SHELL TER. AND SOMETIMES ARE YOU TAKING PERHAPS A GREATER RISK BUT YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT THE DOG AT AN ADULT STAGE AND YOU JUST TAKE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT APPROACH. PERHAPS YOU CAN CONTACT THE PREVIOUS OWNER. AND ASK THEM SOME QUESTIONS. AND FIND OUT IN THEIR OWN WORDS WHY DID YOU GET...
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT IS ALL THAT IS POSSIBLE BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE REASON THE DOG WAS... WILL BE REASONS THEY DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS BUT BECAUSE IT IS A FAMILY MATTER BUT...

Karen says THE MORE YOU CAN LEARN ABOUT GENETICS THE BETTER IT SOUNDS. I WANT TO GO TO LANORE IN TORONTO WHO HAS OUR NEXT QUESTION. ALSO OUR PHONE NUMBER HERE 416-484-2727. LONG DISTANCE IS 1-888-411-123 HAD THIS IS A TOLL-FREE NUMBER AND WE WOULD LOVE YOUR DOG QUESTIONS ON OUR E-MAIL AT MORE TO LIFE AT TVO.ORG.

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Karen says HI, LANORA.

The Caller says I HAVE AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD YELLOW LAB AND HE HAS BEEN WELL SOCIALIZED SINCE A PUPPY AND I HAVE A TEN MONTH OLD BABY. AND RECENTLY HIS BEHAVIOUR HAS CHANGED AND HE IS CONSTANTLY UNDER MY FEET OR SITTING ON ME. HE EVEN FOLLOWS ME INTO THE BATHROOM. AND ALSO WHEN I HAVE TAKEN HIM OUT WITH THE BABY WITH THE CARRIAGE HE HAS BEEN ON THE LEASH, OTHER DOGS HAVE APPROACHED US AND HE IS ACTUALLY AGGRESSIVELY ATTACKED THEM AND HE HAS NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. SO I WONDER WHAT YOUR SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE TO STOP THIS WITH THE OTHER DOGS AND STOP HIM SITTING ON MY FEET.

Karen says IS THIS JEALOUSLY AND PROTECTIVENESS ALL IN ONE.

John says SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT THAT WAY. AND AGAIN WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ANY SITUATION WHERE THERE IS AGGRESSION INVOLVED, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO HELP NEW THIS SORT OF FORMAT BUT I WILL GIVE YOU SOME FEELINGS ABOUT WHAT I THINK IS GOING ON HERE. ONE THING I WOULD BE DOING WITH THIS DOG IS ELIMINATING THE INITIAL STRESS OF WHO IS THE TEACHER AND WHO IS THE STUDENT AND WHOSE BABY THAT IS. BECAUSE IT IS YOUR BABY. AND YOU NO MORE WANT HIM PROTECTING THAT BABY THAN YOU WANT I MISGUIDED TEN AREA OLD TRAYING TO PROTECT THE BABY. HE WON'T UNDERSTAND WHEN TO DO IT. SO YOU HAVE TO TEACH HIM WHO IS THE STUDENT AND WHO IS THE TEACHER. ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD DO WITH THAT IS WHILE YOU ARE... DURING NONBABY TIME, IF THERE IS SUCH A THING, TEACH YOUR DOG, PERHAPS WHEN ARE YOU PREPARING A MEAL OR EATING A MEAL OR WATCHING TELEVISION TO LIE DOWN AND STAY PUT AND NOT MOVE. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. IF YOU HAVE TO GET UP AND CHANGE THE BABY, THEN THE DOG IS SUPPOSED TO STAY THERE. WELL, THAT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT SO YOU MAY HAVE TO CHANGE THE BABY RIGHT THERE ON THE FAMILY ROOM FLOOR AND IF THE LEASH IS ON THE DOG T WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH A LITTLE BIT OF LATITUDE. AND KEEP RETURNING HIM TO THE SPOT UNTIL THE... HE UNDERSTANDS, THIS IS MO MOVING. THAT WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH A LITTLE BIT OF ATTITUDE AS... LATITUDE AS FAR AS MOBILITY, TO TELL HIM TO LIE DOWN AND STAY PUT BUT ALSO TEACH HIM YOU ARE THE TEACHER AND HE IS THE STUDENT. BECAUSE YOU ARE ENFORCING IN A VERY NON-STRESSFUL MANNER, REALLY, THAT YOU CAN GET HIM TO DO SOMETHING, YOU NEED HIM TO DO.

Karen says AND YOU CAN START THAT RIGHT NOW WHEN THAT HASN'T BEEN GOING ON.

John says ABSOLUTELY.

Karen says IN THEIR RELATIONSHIP BEFORE, THAT THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE JARRING FOR THE DOG THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF A NEW WAY OF DOING THINGS.

John says NOPE. IF YOU USE FORCE, THAT IS JARRING. WHEN I'M TEACHING A DOG TO LIE DOWN, I PUT MY HAND ON THEIR HEAD. BUT MY HAND IS THERE IN THE TO FORCE THEM DOWN, BUT TO FEEL SO THAT I CAN SAY WITH TONE COLD OR WARM. I DON'T EVEN LIKE TO LOOK THEM IN THE EYE BECAUSE MOST OF THE DOGS I DEAL WITH AREN'T MY OWN, THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN HOME, THIS GUY WALKS IN THE DOOR T IS YES SIR, NO SIR, THREE ABOUT FULL SIR. SO I WANT TO ELIMINATE AS MUCH STRESS AS I CAN. SO I DON'T DO THAT DIRECT ICON TACK WHICH IN THE DOG WORLD SAY CHALLENGE. IF I CAN HAVE MY HAND ON THE DOG'S HEAD AND NO, NO, THAT IS A GOOD BOY... NO, I CAN FEEL WHETHER HE IS... AND SO I WANT TO RELIEVE AS MUCH STRESS AS POSSIBLE. LEARNING IS STRESS SO THERE WILL BE STRESS THERE. BUT YOUR DOG IS UNDER STRESS RIGHT NOW. WHICH SHE IS DESCRIBING HERE A DOG WHO IS A LITTLE STRESSED OUT.

Karen says SO THE LEASH METHOD TO TEACH THE STAYING AND TO STAY PUT. HOW ABOUT THE AGGRESSIVENESS.

John says THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE IS THE TRICK TO GO OUTSIDE WOULD BE ONE WHERE THE DOG IS BROKEN UP INTO STEPS, AS I SAID EARLY, DISNEYLAND TO THE DOG, OH MY GOODNESS, THE WALK, THE BLACK, THE LEASH, AWAY WE GO. WHEN WE GET READY TO GO FOR THE WALK, BEFORE YOU GET THE BABY READY AND THE DOG IS GETTING USED THIS DOWN STAY STUFF. WALK TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR AND IF THE DOG PROCEEDS YOU STEP ON THE LEASH, YOU SAY NO, WE WILL GOING TO OR BEHIND ME BUT ARE YOU NOT RUNNING AHEAD OF ME HERE. INFLUENCE THE DOG SO THE DOG HAS TO BEGIN TO LOOK AND LISTEN TO YOU BEFORE YOU GET OUTSIDE WHERE YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER DISTRACTIONS. ONCE YOU GET TO THE FRONT DOOR TELL THE DOG TO LIE DOWN, STAY PUT AND TELL THE DOG TO... GO GET THE BABY. DOG SHOWS UP, SAY EXCUSE ME, PUT THE DOG BACK, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MOVE UNTIL WE ARE FINISHED HERE. PEOPLE SAY MY GOODNESS, THAT IS GOING TO TAKE FOREVER, YES, BUT IF YOU WALK WITH THE DOG WHO IS IT IS GOING TO BE HALF AN HOUR, IF YOU ONLY GET TO THE END OF YOUR DRIVEWAY AND IT IS ANNE HALF AN HOUR, WILL BE JUST AS EXHAUSTED AND THE DOG WILL AS IF IT WAS A MILE WALK. IT WON'T MATTER. BUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THE DOG WILL LEARN THAT THAT FRONT DOOR DOES NOT OPEN AND I DO NOT GET OUTSIDE UNTIL I AM INVITED. IF YOU CAN GET THE TRAIN ON THE RIGHT TRACK BEFORE YOU GET OUTSIDE, IT BECOMES MUCH EASIER WHEN YOU GET... WHEN YOU SEE THAT OTHER DOG. WE ARE TALKING... WALKING DOWN THE STREET AND THE OTHER DOG IS IN THE VICINITY, IF ARE YOU FORTUNATE NEW TO SEE WHICH YOU USUALLY ARE. YOU WANT... WILL YOU KNOW YOUR DOG. DON'T WAIT UNTIL YOUR DOG REACTS IN AN AGGRESSIVE MANNER. AS SOON AS THAT DOG... YOUR DOG NOTICES THE OTHER DOG THEN GET HIS ATTENTION, POP, NO. BEFORE... YOU KNOW IT IS ABOUT TO START. PEOPLE AROUND YOU WILL THINK ARE YOU NUTS BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU ARE TALKING TO YOUR DOG AND HE IS JUST STANDING THERE FROM EVERYBODY'S PERSPECTIVE. BUT YOU WILL BE RIGHT. AND THEN THE DOG WILL GO, OH, RIGHT, OKAY, ARE YOU THE TEACHER, I REMEMBER THIS WHOLE PROCESS OF GETTING OUTSIDE HERE. AND IT TAKES SOME PATIENCE. YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE THE DOG OUT. DOES THE DOG DO THAT WHEN IT IS JUST YOU AND THE DOG OR ONLY WHEN THE BABY IS AROUND.

The Caller says ONLY USUALLY WHEN THE BABY IS AROUND. HE HAS BEEN SOCIALIZED SINCE A PUPPY AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH OTHER DOGS.

John says BUT WAS HE SOCIALIZED WIN FANTS.

The Caller says NO. WE JUST LIKE WENT TO PUPPY CLASSES AND DOG TRAINING CLASSES.

John says YEAH, WELL, WHEN I TALK ABOUT SOCIALIZATION I'M TALKING ABOUT EXPOS SURE TO YOUR WORLD OVER A TIME FRAME OF TEN TO 15 YEARS. SO IN THAT THREE TO 12 WEEK PERIOD THAT IS EXPOSURE TO INFANTS AND IF THEY ARE NOT, THEN THEIR SOCIALIZED TO THE OTHER THINGS.

Karen says AND NOW THE DYNAMICS HAVE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY AT HOME, A BABY AND IT BELONGS TO LANORA, NOT THE DOG.

John says AND PERHAPS HE IS FEELING A LITTLE LEFT OUT ATTENTION WISE, BUT IF YOU START GIVING HIM A JOB AND HE IS A LABRADOR RETRIEVER, YOU WILL FIND HE WILL PROBABLY TO SHAPE UP AND FEEL A LITTLE MORE RELAXED BECAUSE THE ATTENTION, HE DOESN'T... AT THIS POINT I'M SURE, PARTICULARLY THE TEN MONTH 08D BABBEE, HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT KIND OF ATTENTION HE ET GOS FROM YOU, GOOD OR BAD, HE JUST WANTS SOME ATTENTION. IF YOU START GIVING HIM A JOB TO DO AROUND THE HOUSE, LIE DOWN, STAY PUT WHILE I DO THIS AND LET'S WALK ON A LEASH PLEASANTLY, LET'S BE CIVILIZED THAN THAT WOULD BE... THAT CAN BE A RELIEF TO THE DOG. AND YOU MIGHT JUST IN CASE HE GETS INTO A SCRAP WITH ANOTHER DOG IS TAKE THE BABY CARRIAGE OUT WITH THE DOG AND SEE IF HE STILL REACTS THE SAME WAY WITH THE CARRIAGE.

Karen says WITH THE BABY NOT...

John says BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A DOGFIGHT WITH A BABY.

Karen says OKAY, GOOD LUCK. LET'S GO TO TONY FLEX, WHO IS CALLING IN FROM BAILEY BURRY.

The Caller says I HAPPY TO BE A BREAD BREEDER AND I DO SOME FARM ON THE SIDE. AND SOME OF YOUR OPENING COMMENTS ABOUT DOGS, THE DOGS I FIND IN MY KENNEL ARE INDIVIDUAL, EACH ONE IS IN COMPLETE INDIVIDUAL AND IT DOESN'T MATTER AND I DON'T THINK BREEDING HAS GOT A LOT TO DO WITH... THERE IS OBVIOUSLY SOME BAD CLOSE BLOOD LINES THAT ARE PROBLEMS. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO PICKING A LITTER YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO GET SOMETIMES. AND IT IS NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE THE BREED OR THE BREEDER, IT IS JUST THAT THE DOGS EACH HAVE THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL TEMPERAMENT EVEN AS A PUPPY.

Karen says I WOULD HAD IT GET YOUR REACTION TO THAT.

John says COLONEL DID A STUDY A FEW YEARS AGO BECAUSE THERE WAS THIS PUPPY TEMPERAMENT STUDY, DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING WHEN YOU TAKE THAT DOG HOME. AND THEY SAID IF YOU DID THIS TO THE DOG, MEASURED THE RESULTS THAT YOU COULD DETERMINE WHAT KIND OF DOG IT IS AND ONE THEY ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE DOGS DOWN THE ROAD, NONE OF IT PANNED OUT. IN THE REASON IT DIDN'T PAN OUT WAS BECAUSE OF THE INFLUENCE IN THE DOGS ENVIRONMENT AS IT MA FEWERED, I MEAN I CAN TAKE A STABLE DOG AND MAKE IT UNSTABLE THROUGH THE WAY THAT I INTERACT WITH IT, AS I COULD WITH A PERSON YOU CAN TAKE THAT UNSTABLE PERSON AND IF NOT MAKE THEM STABLE CERTAINLY IMPROVE THE WAY THEY REACT TO STRESSES IN THEIR LIVES AND YOU CAN DO THAT WITH DOGS. BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT TONY IS SAYING WHETHER HE IS SAYING THAT BREEDING DOES NOT INFLUENCE THE DOG'S MENTAL AND PHYSICAL STABILITY BECAUSE THAT SORT OF CONTRARY TO ANY RESEARCH I HAVE EVER RUN INTO.

Karen says TONY IS TALKING ABOUT BLOOD LINE, IF YOU CROSS BLOOD LINES TOO CLOSELY, THAT THAT COULD AFFECT THE BREED.

John says YOU WILL BE TALKING ABOUT INBREEDING BUT... WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS DO I HAVE A... MY BEEF WITH BREEDERS, IF I WERE BREEDING A DOG AND YOU BOUGHT MY PUPPY, IF I CALLED YOU SIX MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD AND SAID HOW DO YOU LIKE THE PUPPY AND YOU SAID WELL, HE BIT MY KID AND WE ARE THINKING OF GETTING RID OF HIM. I MIGHT HAVE TO THINK OF THE BREEDER, WELL, MAYBE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T SOCIALIZE THE DOG, ALTHOUGH I WONDER WHY YOU DIDN'T EXPLAIN THAT OCEANIZATION, WHY DIDN'T I START THAT PROCESS BEFORE YOU TOOK THE DOG. BUT SO IT MIGHT BE YOU, IT REALLY MIGHT BE A NURTURING FACTOR. BUT IF I CONTACTED THE ENTIRE LITTER AND FOUND OUT THREE OF THE PUPPIES HAD DONE THE SAME THING, THEN I WOULD HAVE TO QUESTION WHETHER MY BLOOD LINES THAT I SELECTED WERE PERHAPS A BAD MESH.

Karen says WELL, TONY, DO YOU THINK THAT BREEDERS DON'T... GET ANY RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS, THAT IF THREE OUT OF EIGHT TURN OUT TO BE BITERS IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

The Caller says THAT IS WHAT I SAID. WHAT I SAID IS YOU CAN GET PROBLEMS BY HAVING TOO CLOSE OF BLOOD... HAVING BROTHERS AND SISTERS MATE OR WHATEVER, HAVING TOO CLOSE OF YOUR BLOOD TYPES,, YES, THAT CAN CAUSE PROBLEMS. I AGREE WITH THAT. BUT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY IS OUT OF A LITTER OF PUPS YOU CAN GET ONE BAD DOG NO MATTER WHAT. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY HAVE PERFECT BLOOD LINES ALL THE WAY DOWN AND ARE YOU BEING A VERY CONSCIENTIOUS BREEDER AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND WILL YOU HAVE ONE, THE ODD ONE THAT IS GOING TO GO EITHER CRAZY OR STUPID OR WHATEVER. AND IT HAPPENS. AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN REALLY DO ABOUT IT.

Karen says HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU THINK A BREEDER TAKES ON WHEN YOU GET INTO THIS BUSINESS.

The Caller says I'M SORRY.

Karen says HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULDER WHEN IT COMES TO...

The Caller says IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH A DOG THAT YOU SELL, YOU TAKE IT BACK OR GIVE THEM ANOTHER CHOICE OF ANOTHER LITTER, THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM AS FAR AS THE DOG. BUT THE DOGS ARE INDIVIDUAL. I AM RUNNING A TEAM OF SLED DOGS AND I ALSO RUN BEAGLES AND A BUNCH OF OTHERS. AND THEY ARE INDIVIDUAL DOGS. THEY HAVE CERTAIN TRAITS BY BREED BUT EACH ONE IS AN INDIVIDUAL. THE CLOSEST ONES I HAVE IS ONE PAIR OF SISTERS IT THAT ARE SO SIMILAR, BUT I HAVE THE WHOLE LIT NEVER ONE CASE. AND ONE DOG ONE FEMALE WASN'T ANY GOOD AT ALL. AND YET THE TWO MALES ARE PERFECT. YOU COULDN'T ASK FOR TWO NICER DOGS.

John says IT IS HARD TO ANSWER WITHOUT ME SEEING THE DOGS. I WOULD THINK THAT ONE DOG OUT OF A LITTER GOING BAD WOULD BE TOO HIGH TO ME. I THINK THERE WOULD BE... I CAN SEE THAT AS BEING A STATISTICAL POSSIBILITY. BUT THERE IS TO WAY I CAN BE CONVINCED BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND THE INTERVIEWS I HAVE DONE WITH BREEDERS THAT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE. BUT PREDOMINANTLY MOST OF THE BREEDERS IF YOU ASK THEM WHAT IS THE TELEPHONE THREE GENETIC FRAILTIES IN THEIR BREED ARE AND HOW THEIR BREEDING PROGRAMME IS ADDRESSING THAT, THEY DON'T ANSWER. BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THOSE THINGS. AND HE MENTIONS BEAGLES AS A BREEDING WITH BEAGLES LIKE ALL BREEDS HAVE A PREDISPOSITION GENETICALLY TO A COUPLE OF THINGS. WELL, THERE IS TESTING THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THE MOTHER AND THE FATHER FOR SOME OF THESE THINGS. ARE THE TESTS BEING DONE. WELL, SOME BREEDER DOES IT. BUT TOO MANY DO NOT. SO THE GENETIC FLAW GETS CARRIED ON INDISCRIMINATELY. SO I HAVE A GOOD BREEDER AND THEN I TAKE THE DOG DID NEWT TER AND I THINK WELL FOR THE JOY OF TEACHING MY CHILDREN THE WONDER OF LIFE I WILL BREED THIS PUPPY WITH MY NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR WITH THE BEST OF INTENTIONS WITHOUT... THERE ARE DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OF BREEDERS AS WELL. WELL, THERE IS BACKYARD BREEDER, THE PUPPY MILL BREEDER, THE BREEDER THAT BREEDS FOR THE WORKING DOG. AND I MEAN THERE IS JUST SUCH A VARIANCE THAT THE BREEDING COMMUNITY JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE COHESION YET TO ME TO PROVIDE THE PRODUCT THEY SHOULD BE PROVIDING.

Karen says OR THE REGULATION.

John says I WOULD RATHER THEY SELF-REGULATE. I MEAN THE AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY DOES IT ALL THE TIME WITH LIVESTOCK. AND THEY DO A WONDERFUL JOB WITH LIVESTOCK.

Karen says TONY TALKED ABOUT THAT CERTAIN BREEDS ARE JUST BY NATURE EITHER BAD OR AGGRESSIVE. I WANTED TO GET BACK TO A WHAT A LOT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE DOING, BANNING BREEDS OUTRIGHT OR FORCING STERILIZATION SO THAT THE PIT BULLS AND BULL MASTIFF WON'T ANY LONGER BE HOUSEHOLD PETS. WHAT DO YOU THINK.

John says WELL, I THINK THAT, AND I THINK IN FAIRNESS TO TONY, I DON'T THINK HE SAID THAT ABOUT BREEDS. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL DOG AND A LITTER MAY GO THAT WAY BUT WHEN ARE YOU ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT BREEDS, OKAY, WE BANNED PIT BALLS... PIT BULLS, WHEN WE DID THAT IN KITCHENER I SAID YOU WATCH, THE PIT BULL WILL BE REPLACED. AND MY GUESS WAS IT WAS GOING TO BE Mastiffs. WE ARE STARTING TO SEE MORE. THERE WAS A YOUNG WOMAN IN SAN FRAN KILLED BY A MASTIFF THIS YEAR AND THE OWNER HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH MURDER ON THAT ONE. WE ARE SEEING A LOT MORE DOGS, DOG A GREX TOWARDS OTHER DOGS AND HUMAN BEINGS AS WELL. SO...

Karen says AND THERE IS A MASTIFF MALLING HERE IN ONTARIO TOO.

John says A DEATH HERE AS WELL. SO LET'S BAN MASTIFF. OKAY, SO WHAT WILL THEY REPLACE THAT WITH, ROTTWEILERS, THEN WE WILL GO BACK TO GERMAN SHEPHERDS BECAUSE THEY WILL BECOME THE FLAVOUR OF THE MONTH. AND I THINK AGAIN WE ARE DEALING WHERE EFFECT AND NOT CAUSE. AND IF WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM, WE DEAL WITH IT THROUGH MEDICAL PAY NEUTERING. VERY FEW COMMUNITIES... THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT IF IT WAS ENFORCED AND TO ME, AND I TRIED TO CONVINCE COMMUNITIES OF THIS FOR YEARS, IT IS THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT OUR KIDS AND OUR FUTURE RELATIONSHIP WITH DOGS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT A DOG LICENCE COSTS THE SAME AMOUNT PLUS A LITTLE BIT AS A SPAY OR NEUTER OPERATION IT IS IS UNSPAY OR UNNEUTERED. AND IF YOU WANT TO BE A BREEDER YOU PAY MORE. BUT GOOD, PEOPLE SHOULD PAY MORE. THEY ARE WORTH IT AND IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE BREEDING CHARGE THEM 10 OR 15 DOLLARS. THEN IT IS EASY FOR ME TO MAKE THE DECISION AS A DOG OWNER, I'M NOT GOING IT BREED, I WILL SPAYY NEUTER AND IF I DON'T IT WILL COST ME 100 OR 200 dollars EVERY YEAR FOR A DOG LICENCE. IF GIVES YOU A WAY OF CONTROLLING POPULATION AND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BREED WILL HAVE TO BE DARN SERIOUS ABOUT IT IF THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN THESE LICENSES TO BREED. BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY THEY ARE... IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME MALE DOGS AND FEMALE DOGS UNUNFIXED, FOUR OF ONE AND ONE OF THE OTHER, THERE IS FIVE THERE IS 1NOW A YEAR THEY WILL PAY IN LICENSING FEES. SO THAT IS ONE WAY OF BEGINNING THAT PROCESS.

Karen says LET ME GO TO SUZANNE CALLING IN FROM TORONTO. HI.

The Caller says HI, HOW ARE YOU.

Karen says GREAT THANKS.

The Caller says I HAVE A QUESTION, WE HAVE AN ALMOST SIX-YEAR-OLD MALE STANDARD POODLE WHO IS A RETIRED WORKING DOG. HE IS A GREAT NATURED DOG AND WE ALSO HAVE TWO CATS. THE PROBLEM IS OUR SIAMESE CAT HE CONSTANTLY WASHES HIM. HE WASHES HIS FACE, HE WASHES HIS WHOLE ABOUT AND THE CAT JUST SITS THERE AND LETS HIM DO IT. IT IS THE FUNNIEST THING BUT I CAN'T SEEM TO GET THE DOG TO LEAVE THE CAT ALONE.

Karen says DOES THE SIAMESE ACCOUNT MIND.

The Caller says NO, HE DOESN'T. HE JUST SITS THERE.

Karen says I'M WONDERING WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

John says WHAT WAS THE DOG'S JOB, YOU SAID HE WAS A WORKING DOG.

The Caller says HE USED TO WORK FOR A LADY WHO HAD SEIZURES AND HE DETECTED THE SEIZURES WHEN SHE HAD THEM.

John says HOW WELL TRAINED WAS HE WHEN YOU GOT HIM. WAS HE PRETTY SIT DOWN, STAY, COME, HEEL THAT SORT OF THING.

The Caller says OH, YES, VERY WELL TRAINED. THIS DOG CAN OPEN DOORS AND DRAWERS AND EVERYTHING.

John says ALL RIGHT. IS HE AS MENTALLY STIMULATED NOW AS HE WAS THEN.

The Caller says WELL, THE PROBLEM IS WE GOT HIM AS A RETIRED WORKING DOG BECAUSE HE DEVELOPED SEIZURES HIMSELF. AND HE IS ON POTASSIUM BROMIDE TWICE A DAY AND I HAVE CHANGED HIS DOG FOOD TO A HADDISTIC DOG FOOD AND HE HASN'T HAD A SEIZURE IN A YEAR.

John says OKAY.

The Caller says BUT NO, HE HAS THE LIFE OF LEISURE NOW.

John says ALL RIGHT. WELL, I MEAN THAT IS IMPORTANT INFORMATION. IF THE DOG HAS BEEN SUFFERING FROM SEIZURES AS WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO INCREASE STRESS ON THIS DOG'S LIFE AND IF THIS DOG IS HAPPY AND THIS CAT IS HAPPY, I WOULD JUST LEAVE IT STATUS QUO. IF THERE WAS A PROBLEM THAT WE HAD TO ADDRESS, THAN BECAUSE THE CAT IS MISERABLE OR THE DOG IS MISERABLE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO... DISH IMAGINE YOU ARE CALLING BECAUSE YOU ARE WORRIED THIS IS BECOMING LIKE AN OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOUR.

The Caller says Mr. BEAN, OUR SIAMES CAT ONLY WAYS SEVEN POUNDS AND THE STANDARD POOD SELL 75 POUNDS AND THEY SLEEP TOCHLINGT AND THE DOG ROLLS OVER ON TOP OF HIM AND EVERYTHING. BUT WHEN THEY ARE AWAKE AND CLOSE TOGETHER HE JUST BATHS HIM, CONSTANTLY BATHS HIM.

Karen says IT SOUNDS BY OBSESSIVE.

The Caller says IT IS KIND OF, YES.

John says WELL, AGAIN, IF THE DOG AND THE CAT ARE COOL WITH THIS, THEN I'M NOT... I AM FINE WITH MIXED MARRIAGES. I HAVE NO PROBLEM. BUT IF IT IS STARTING TO CROSS THE LINE THAN I WOULD BE STARTING TO... AS FAR AS IF THE DOG IS ABLE TO... IF THE TELL THE DOG STOP IT, DOES THE DOG STOP.

The Caller says YOU JUST KIND OF HAVE TO PICK THE CAT UP AND TAKE HIM AWAY AND THE DOG JUST LOOKS AT YOU AND THEN SOMETIMES WILL GO CHASE AFTER THE CAT AND THE CAT WILL HEAT HIM CATCH THEM AND THEN THEY START ALL OVER AGAIN.

John says WELL, I THINK I WOULD LEAVE THINGS AS THEY ARE.

Karen says WITH THE SEIZURES WITH THE DOG, YOU DON'T WANT TO ADD TO THE STRESS.

John says BUT I MIGHT CONSIDER LOOKING AT MAYBE GIVING THE DOG A LITTLE BIT MORE MENTAL STIMULATION. AND JUST WHILE I'M THINKING OF IT BECAUSE SHE MENTIONED STANDARD POODLES, I WORK WITH A FEW OF THEM AND BEGINNING TO THINK THEY WILL MAKE THE NEXT REALLY GOOD FAMILY DOG. THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE OVERBREAD. THEY ARE HIGHLY INTELLIGENT. THEY ARE VERY, VERY GOOD PROPERLY SOCIALIZED AND PROPERLY BREAD, THEY SEEM TO BE WITH LAB RA DOOR RETREEFERS USED TO BE AND STILL ARE WITH SOME INSTANCES BUT I HAVE SEEN SOME GREAT ONES RECENTLY.

Karen says SUZANNE, GOOD LUCK, THANKS FOR CALLING. BUT THIS TERMS WAF SUZANNE MENTIONED WITH MEDICATION, I WANTED TO GET IN THAT WITH DOGS ON PROZAC AND BEING TREATED FOR EPILEPSY, WHERE DO YOU STAND ON MEDICATION FOR DOGS.

John says EPILEPSY WOULD BE A MEDICAL CONDITION I WOULDN'T BE CALL FIDZ TO ADDRESS BUT FROM A BEHAVIOURAL STANDPOINT, THERE IS A COMPANY, MOVE ARTIST WHICH MAKES JUST ALL... NOVARTIS WHICH MAKES MEDICATIONS FOR HUMAN BEINGS PUT ON A DRUG USED FOR ANXIETY DISORDERS FOR DAUGHTERS, SEPARATION ANXIETY QUITE COMMONLY. AND VETERINARIANS ARE BEGINNING TO PRESCRIBE IT FOR THAT AND THEY HAVE HAD SOME SUCCESS. SORT OF THE CATCH 2 IT FOR THE VETERINARIANS IS ANY... WHETHER IT IS PROZAC FOR HUMAN BEING OR THAT FOR A DOG, THESE ARE MEDICATIONS THAT WITH THE BEST OF INTENTIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO OPEN UP A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PATIENT TO BE ABLE TO SEE LIFE CLEARLY ENOUGH ONCE AGAIN TO MAKE 340DIFICATIONS IN THEIR LIFE THROUGH COUNSELLING. AND THAT CAN BE DONE WITH A DOG AS WELL. BUT THE VETERINARIAN WHO HAS SOMEBODY COME IN AND SAY MY DOG IS RIPPING MY HOUSE APART AND EVERY TIME I WALK OUT DOOR HE HAS SEPARATION ANXIETY, ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEHAVIOURAL MODIFICATION, THEY DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES IN MOST COMMUNITIES TO GIVE PEOPLE.
HERE IS THE DRUG NOW HERE IS WHO YOU SEE ABOUT THE BEHAVIOUR MODIFICATION. WHAT THEY USUALLY HAVE ARE TRADITIONAL TRAINING SCHOOLS BUT THEY ARE GENERALLY USING METHODS OF TRAINING THAT WELL, YOU WALK INTO TRAINING SCHOOL AND ARE YOU TEACHING A DOG TO WALK GEOMETRIC PATTERNS AROUND A PYLON. THIS IS NOT A REAL REFLECTION OF TRUE DAY-TO-DAY LIFE. SO THE PHILOSOPHY AND APPROACH IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO HELP AND OFTEN CAN INCREASE STRESS RATHER THAN DECREASE... DECREASE IT. SO THESE PROBLEMS HAVE TO BE DONE ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS AND HAVE TO BE PROPERLY ASSESSED AND THINGS. SO LOTS OF DOGS ARE ON THE DRUG AND THAT'S IT. THEY STICK ON IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE. I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THEY ARE PROBABLY VERY MUCH THE SAME AS THEY ARE FOR HUMAN BEINGS WHO TAKE A SIMILAR TYPE OF MEDICATION. BUT.

Karen says DO YOU USE MEDICATION MUCH, DO YOU RECOMMEND IT OR PRESCRIBE IT.

John says MAYBE THREE OR FOUR TIMES A YEAR AND IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT I WOULD WORK WITH A VETERINARIAN, THEY WOULD PRESCRIBE THAT AND I WOULD PROVIDE THE PROGRAMME. I FIND IN ALMOST EVERY INSTANCE THAT THESE PROBLEMS CAN BE RESOLVED THROUGH BEHAVIOUR MODIFICATION ALONE. THERE IS JUST SOME MIXED SIGNALS BETWEEN THE DOG AND THE HUMAN OR THERE IS A MISUNDERSTANDING OF WHAT A DOG'S ACTUAL NEEDS ARE AND SO THE DOG GETS STRESSED OUT. AND WITH THOUGH THINGS GET RESOLVED, LINES OF COMMUNICATION ARE OPEN AGAIN AND THINGS USUALLY RETURN TO NORMAL. SOMETIMES THEY DON'T BUT THE REASON THEY DON'T IS NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE OF THE ORIGINAL CAUSE BUT BECAUSE THE DOG HAS THE HABIT OF RIPPING THE HOUSE APART IT IS LIKE OOPS, 8:00, TIME TO GO. SO WITHOUT THE... THEY DON'T NECESSARILY NEED THE ORIGINAL STIMULATION. SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PROBLEM FROM THAT STANDPOINT AS WELL. OKAY, WE HAVE DEALT WITH THE CAUSE. WE ARE DEALING NOW WITH THE AFFECTS OF THE WAY THE... EVERYTHING HAS MANIFESTED ITSELF. NOW LET'S WORK ON THIS BECAUSE THE DOG MAY STILL HAVE THE HABIT AND BREAK THAT HABIT.

Karen says WHY DON'T WE REVIEW IN TERMS OF SOMEONE WHO IS WATCHING RIGHT NOW WHO IS I THISING ABOUT TAKING THAT STEP. THEY WANT A DOG IN THEIR LIFE. AND THEY ARE JUST AT THE BEGINNING STAGES OF IT. WHAT SHOULD YOU ASK YOURSELF AND HOW SHOULD YOU START.

John says ARE WE TALKING ABOUT MEDICATION AGAIN.

Karen says NO, NO, JUST IN TERMS OF GETTING A DOG INTO YOUR LIFE. YOU HAVE DECIDED THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT AND NOW ARE YOU GOING TO START. WHAT QUESTIONS SHOULD YOU ASK YOUR IS.

John says LOOK AT YOUR LIFE OVER THE NEXT 10 TO 15 YEARS AND DECIDE WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO BE GOING, WHO YOU ARE GOING TO BE WITH. WHAT ARE THE RESPONSIBILITIES ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE ON AND THEN YOU MIGHT JUST LOOK FOR OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE RIGHT NOW WHERE ARE YOU AT AT THAT POINT AND SEE WHAT KIND OF DOGS THEY HAVE GOT.

Karen says SEE HOW IT HAS IMPACTED THEIR LIFE.

John says SURE. IF YOU DECIDE ON A BREED OF DOG THAT YOU ARE INTERESTED IN, GOO TALK TO YOUR... I WON'T SAY TALK TO THE VET BECAUSE THE VETS ARE BACK THERE WORKING WITH THE DOGS. TALK TO THE RECEPTIONIST AND SAY I WOULD LIKE A STANDARD POODLE, I HEARD THEY ARE REALLY GOOD FAMILY DOGS, WHAT DO YOU THINK. THEY WILL GIVE YOU AN OPINION AND THEN SAY DO YOU HAVE CLIENTS THAT HAVE THEM, WHERE YOU REALLY LIKE THE DOG. THEY KNOW IF THE DOG HAS A RED MARK ON ITS CASHED BECAUSE IT IS DANGER, DANGER, EF RETIME THE DOG COMES IN OR OTHER DOGS OH, NO, I KNOW, THERE IS... THEY HAVE ONE. WE WILL FIND OUT, WHERE DID THEY GET THEIR DOG.

Karen says WITH ASKING QUESTIONS, DOING A LITTLE LEGWORK, MAKING THE DECISION YOU WANT IT IN YOUR LIFE AND THE COMMITMENT.

John says AND SETTING ASIDE A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF TIME YOU GET THAT DOG FOR THE NEXT FOUR WEEKS, LIKE GREAT WOULD BE VACATION TIME, BUT THERE ARE PROS AND COULD BES OF THAT AS WELL BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE YOUR DOG OVERLY ATTACHED DURING THAT TIME BUT YOU WANT TO BE... YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL TAKING YOUR DOG PLACES. PUT THEM IN YOUR BACKPACK, GET THEM OUT THERE EXPOSED TO YOUR LIFE.

Karen says THAT IS THE TIME TO EMPHASIZE ALL THE TRAINING. JOHN, GREAT TO MEET YOU, THANKS SOME OF FOR COMING IN, I LEARNED A LOT.

John says THANK YOU.

Karen says JOHN IS A DOG TRAINER, ALSO A DOG BEHAVIOURALIST. HERE'S HOW YOU CAN GET IN TOUCH...

A slate reads "John Wade, 519-871-0113, johnwade@ethological.com."

Karen says AND FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGY OF DOGS CHECK OUT DR. NICHOLAS DODMAN'S BOOK CALLED "THE DOG WHO LOVED TOO MUCH."

A picture of the book appears briefly on screen. The cover features a black and white picture of a curly-haired dog holding a stick.

Karen says THAT'S IT FOR TODAY'S SHOW. I'M KAREN HORSMAN. THANKS FOR WATCHING. JOIN US MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY'S FOR "MORE TO LIFE."

Watch: Dog Behaviour