Transcript: John Ralston Saul talks about globalization. | Nov 26, 2005

[Audience applauding]

John Ralston Saul stands behind a transparent acrylic lectern and addresses an unseen audience.
He's in his sixties, balding and clean-shaven. He's wearing a beige suit and a pink shirt.

He says IF YOU
MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT
GLOBALIZATION IS COMING TO AN
END, THERE REALLY ISN'T MUCH
POINT ABOUT IT UNLESS YOU CAN
MAKE THE ARGUMENT AROUND THE
GLOBE.

[Audience laughing]

John continues UM, IF
I'M REALLY JUST TELLING YOU
THAT IT'S A LOCAL SECRET I MEAN
I GUESS THAT COULD GIVE US A
RUNNING ADVANTAGE OF SOME SORT.

[Audience laughing]

John continues BUT I
THINK IT WOULD BE A LITTLE
DISHONEST ON MY PART.
AND SO IN A WAY THIS IS A VERY,
DIFFICULT BOOK TO DO.
"A" TO MAKE IT VERY ACCESSIBLE
BECAUSE IT HAS TO WORK IN ALL
THOSE COUNTRIES.
BUT TO FIND A WAY, NOT TO WRITE
IT SIMPLY FROM A CANADIAN POINT
OF VIEW.
BUT FROM AN INDIAN POINT OF
VIEW, AND BE THE CHINESE POINT
OF VIEW, OR A NEW ZEALAND POINT
OF VIEW, OR AN AMERICAN POINT
OF VIEW, OR A FRENCH POINT OF
VIEW, OR A GERMAN POINT OF VIEW
SO THAT, SO THAT WHATEVER THE
MYTHOLOGIES ARE IN DIFFERENT
PARTS OF THE WORLD ABOUT WHAT
GLOBALIZATION IS AND ISN'T
SOMEHOW IT MAKES SENSE TO THESE
PEOPLE.
SO I KNOW IT'S A FUNNY THING.
YOU CAN SAY IT'S AN
INTERNATIONALIST VIEW OF THE
COLLAPSE OF GLOBALISM.

[Audience laughs]

John continues I SUPPOSE
WOULD BE A WAY OF PUTTING IT,
AS, AS OPPOSED TO SOME NARROW,
CLOSED VIEW OF WHAT'S
HAPPENING.
AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT DAVID,
DAVID OR THE NEW PRESIDENT OF
PENGUIN WHO CAME HERE FROM
INDIA WAS AN ENORMOUS HELP TO
ME BECAUSE HE HAD A VIEW FROM
OUTSIDE OF THE NORTH AMERICAN
BOX AND OUTSIDE OF THE EUROPEAN
BOX.
AND HE WITH OTHER EDITORS
AROUND THE WORLD WERE REALLY
ABLE TO SAY TO ME YOU'RE JUST
TALKING LIKE A CANADIAN, NORTH
AMERICAN, EUROPEAN, WHATEVER
AND TRY AND PULL ME OUT SO THAT
I COULD SEE OTHER PEOPLES
POINTS OF VIEWS AND THEIR
EXPERIENCES AND NOT PROJECT US
ONTO THEM, WHICH WE IN THE WEST
ARE SO GOOD AT DOING.
AND I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT TONIGHT, ABOUT THE
FAILURE OF GLOBALIZATION AS ONE
OF THE REASONS FOR IT BEING THE
INSISTENCE OF THE WEST
PROJECTING ITS GLOBAL VIEW ONTO
THE GLOBE, AS OPPOSED TO HAVING
A GLOBAL VIEW.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "His Excellency John Ralston Saul. Author 'The collapse of globalism and the rebirth of nationalism.' Macmillan Theatre, U of T. May 27, 2005."

John continues BUT LET
ME JUST START WITH A COUPLE OF
EXAMPLES SO YOU GET A SORT OF
SENSE OF WHAT I'M TALKING
ABOUT.
ON THE 18TH OF MAY, NOT FAR
FROM TORONTO IN BURLINGTON,
JUST DOWN THE ROAD, THE CITY
COUNCIL...
A CITY OF UNDER 200,000 WAS CALLED UPON
TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT THE
BUILDING OF A NEW WALMART.
THIS WAS THE END OF A TWO-YEAR
PROCESS OF NEGOTIATION.
FRIENDLY NEGOTIATION BETWEEN
THE PLANNERS OF BURLINGTON AND
WALMART.
AND AFTER A VERY, AGREEABLE
PROBABLY TOUGH AS WELL,
NEGOTIATION OVER A TWO-YEAR
PERIOD THE PLANNERS WHOLE,
HEARTEDLY RECOMMENDED THAT THE
TOWN COUNCIL OF BURLINGTON
APPROVE THE CHANGING OF THE
BYLAWS IN ORDER TO BUILD THIS
BIG, NEW, WALMART STATION NEXT
TO THEIR FAIRVIEW STREET GO
STATION.
YOU SEE WALMART, GLOBALIZATION
IS BOTH BIG AND VERY PRECISE.
UM AND THE CITY COUNCIL VOTED,
AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS
UNANIMOUS OR NOT, BUT VOTED AT
LEAST BY MAJORITY TO REJECT,
TOTALLY THE REJECTION OF THE
RECOMMENDATIONS OF THEIR
PLANNERS.
THE MAYOR SAID THE PLANNERS ARE
QUOTE, EXPERT PLANNERS BUT THAT
DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE EXPERT
COMMUNITY BUILDERS.
AND THE SPOKESMAN FOR WALMART
WHO NEEDS A LITTLE BIT OF
TRAINING IN PUBLIC NEWSPEAK
SAID THAT THE DECISION QUOTE,
SEEMS TO BE BASED ON SOME
PHILOSOPHICAL CHANGE IN VISION
FOR NOT ONLY THAT SITE BUT FOR
THE AREA AS A WHOLE.
TO WHICH I WOULD SAY FOR THE
COUNTRY AS A WHOLE, THE
CONTINENT AS A WHOLE, THE WORLD
AS A WHOLE, BECAUSE IN FACT IF
YOU FOLLOW THESE DEBATES ABOUT
THE BUILDING OF WALMARTs AROUND
NORTH AMERICA YOU'LL SEE OVER A
FIVE, YEAR PERIOD, SEVEN TO
FIVE YEAR PERIOD, A GRADUAL
EVOLUTION, WHICH MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE HAVE THE COURAGE TO SAY
THIS DOESN'T REALLY WORK FOR
US, AND SOME PEOPLE SUCCEED.
SOME PEOPLE DON'T SUCCEED.
IT'S A BIT MESSY.
THIS IS PROBABLY THE CLEANEST
AND NEATEST NO THAT'S TAKEN
PLACE SO FAR ANYWHERE IN THE
WORLD.
AND WHAT'S FASCINATING ABOUT IT
IS, IT'S THE BEGINNING OF A
DIFFERENT KIND OF UNDERSTANDING
OF WHAT ECONOMICS ARE.
FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW, FOR THE
LAST 25 TO 30 YEARS WE'VE
BASICALLY ACCEPTED THE THEORY
THAT WHEN WE SAY THE CUSTOMER
IS ALWAYS RIGHT, WHAT WE MEAN
IS THE CUSTOMER HAS UM, A, A
RIGHT TO THE CHEAPEST, POSSIBLE
GOODS.
IT'S A CURIOUS THING CAUSE AS
FAR AS I KNOW IT ISN'T IN THE
CHARTER OF RIGHTS.

[Audience laughing]

John continues UM, I
DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THERE
ABOUT THE CHEAPEST, POSSIBLE
GOODS.
IN FACT IT ISN'T A RIGHT, NOR
IS IT EVEN A CHARACTERISTIC OF
CAPITALISM WHETHER IT'S LOCAL
OR INTERNATIONAL TO SEEK THE
CHEAPEST, POSSIBLE GOODS.
CAPITALISM, MIXED MARKETS,
INTERNATIONAL CAPITALISM ONLY
WORKS ON THE BASIS OF FAIR,
PRICING.
COMPETITION IS ALL ABOUT
FINDING FAIR PRICES.
PRICES HIGH ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE
TO BE ABLE TO WORK AND LOW
ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE BE TO BE ABLE
TO BUY.
WHEN YOU GET INTO A SITUATION
OF OVER, PRODUCTION, WHICH IS
THE GENERAL SITUATION IN THE
WORLD TODAY PRICES ARE DRIVEN
DOWN TO THE POINT WHERE IT
BECOMES INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT
TO MAINTAIN ANY KIND OF
REASONABLE INCOME, SOCIETY.
SO SUDDENLY CUSTOMERS, A
SOCIETY LIKE THE SOCIETY OF
BURLINGTON SAYS WELL ACTUALLY
WE'RE NOT ALL THAT INTERESTED
IN HAVING THE CHEAPEST,
POSSIBLE GOODS.
ADMITTEDLY IT'S A MIDDLE,
UPPER, MIDDLE CLASS SOCIETY,
BUT NOT ENTIRELY.
AND ITS RIGHT NEXT TO HAMILTON,
WHICH HAS YOU KNOW HAS A BIG,
WORKING CLASS POPULATION.
SO IT'S NOT AN EXCLUSIONARY
STATEMENT BY BURLINGTON.
THEY'RE REALLY SAYING LOOK, YOU
KNOW WE HAVE ANOTHER VISION OF
OUR SOCIETY.
AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT IT
IS WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE
RUSH TOWARDS THE CHEAPEST,
POSSIBLE GOODS IS A RIGHT, BUT
WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT IS
INEVITABLE.
WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT
CITIZENS, TWO, UNDER 200,000
CITIZENS HAVE A CHOICE AND THEY
CAN MAKE THAT CHOICE AND GUESS
WHAT?
THEIR SOCIETY WILL NOT FALL
APART.
IN FACT THEY ARE ABLE TO BUILD
THEIR SOCIETY IN THE SHAPE THAT
THEY WISH TO BUILD IT.
15 YEARS AGO THIS WAS NOT THE
CONVERSATION THAT WAS TAKING
PLACE ANYWHERE IN THE WESTERN
WORLD FROM AUTHORITIES.
IT WAS HAPPENING FROM OUTSIDE
GROUPS IF YOU LIKE.
THE, THE ACCOMPANYING TRUISM OF
THE LAST THREE DECADES HAS BEEN
THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT,
CHEAPEST.
CAPITALISM IS ABOUT THE
BIGGEST, POSSIBLE PROFIT.
BUT OF COURSE THAT'S NOT TRUE
EITHER.
NOBODY EVER SAID THAT.
ADAM SMITH NEVER SAID IT.
MERCADO NEVER SAID THAT.
IT'S NOT TRUE.
CAPITALISM IS ABOUT REASONABLE
PRICES, REASONABLE PROFITS IN A
COMPETITIVE SITUATION WITH A
FUNCTIONING CIVILIZATION.
AND IT'S INTERESTING THAT
SUDDENLY NEITHER OF THOSE IDEAS
ARE TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY.
WHEREAS JUST YOU KNOW, FIVE,
TEN, FIFTEEN YEARS AGO IF YOU
DIDN'T TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY YOU
WERE OBVIOUSLY SOME PINKO, WHAT
WAS THE OLD PHRASE?
WELL, YOU KNOW PINKO,
COMMUNIST, PERVERT SORT OF
THING.
UM, NOT A NORMAL PERSON.

[Audience laughs]

John continues SUDDENLY
IT'S NORMAL AGAIN TO BELIEVE IN
FAIR PRICES AND FAIR PROFITS.
FOR THE
LAST 15 YEARS OR SO, THE
STANDARD GLOBALIST ARGUMENT WAS
ISN'T IT FABULOUS YOU KNOW,
CHINA, INDIA, AH, THEY'RE
STARTING TO PLAY A ROLE IN
GLOBALIZATION.
THEY'RE
STARTING TO EXPORT INTO THE
GLOBAL MARKETS.
THEY'RE STARTING TO ACT IN A
GLOBAL MANNER AND ISN'T IT
FABULOUS?
AND THEN FIVE YEARS AGO OR SO,
THERE WAS THE BEGINNING OF THIS
TENSION ABOUT WHAT IS THE
EFFECT OF GOODS TOO CHEAP TO BE
COMPETED WITH BY NORTH AMERICAN
WORKERS COMING INTO NORTH
AMERICA INDEED, INTO EUROPE AND
INDEED INTO AUSTRALIA AND NEW
ZEALAND.
AND THE RESPONSE OF THE
GLOBALISTS WAS YOU KNOW YOU
PEOPLE, I MEAN YOU OLD-
FASHIONED NATIONALISTS, AND
PROTECTIONISTS YOU'RE JUST
AFRAID AND BESIDES YOU'RE,
YOU'RE ANTI-DEVELOPING WORLD.
THIS IS THE CHANCE FOR THESE
PEOPLE TO GET THEMSELVES UP THE
LADDER AND YOU'RE TRYING TO
STOP THEM FROM GETTING UP THE
LADDER.
AND THEN ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO
THE PENNY DROPPED.
THE LAST PROTECTIONS FOR THE
WESTERN INDUSTRIES DISAPPEARED
IN THE TEXTILE AND CLOTHING
INDUSTRY.
AND OVERNIGHT THE PEOPLE WHO
FOR 30 YEARS HAVE BEEN SAYING
WE BELIEVE IN GLOBALIZATION AND
THE WORLD IS ONE.
WE SHOULD SUPPORT THE WORK OF
THE PEOPLE IN THE DEVELOPING
WORLD.
THE SAME PEOPLE TURNED AROUND
AND, AND REALIZED THAT THE
SYSTEM UP UNTIL THREE MONTHS
AGO WAS THAT WESTERN OWNED
CORPORATIONS WERE CHOOSING WHAT
THEY WISHED TO IMPORT FROM
CHINA AND INDIA AS WELL AS
BANGLADESH AND SO ON.
AND WERE IN A SENSE SHAPING
THAT IMPORT TO THEIR OWN
ADVANTAGE.
AND ABRUPTLY THREE MONTHS AGO
IT WAS ALL TURNED AROUND
BECAUSE IT WAS ACTUALLY
CHINESE, OWNED OPERATIONS,
INDIAN OWNED OPERATIONS, WHICH
WERE DECIDING THE SHAPE OF THE
TEXTILE AND CLOTHING INDUSTRY.
AND WHAT THEY WOULD DO TO THE
WEST.
WELL SUDDENLY THE GLOBALISTS
WERE SAYING THEY'RE GONNA FLOOD
OUR MARKETPLACE.
IT'S NOT FAIR.
THEY CAN'T DO THAT.
THEY DON'T HAVE A DEREGULATED
CURRENCY.
WELL YOU KNOW A FEW, IN 2004,
THE UNITED STATES DEVALUED THE
AMERICAN DOLLAR, WIPED OUT AN
ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF THE DEBT
THAT WAS OWED TO IT BY DOING IT
AND NOBODY SAID IT WASN'T FAIR.
THEY SAID IT WAS A BIT
DIFFICULT FOR US.
BUT NOBODY SAID YOU CAN'T DO
IT.
BUT THE MOMENT THE DEVELOPING
WORLD TURNS GLOBALIZATION
AROUND AND USES IT TO THEIR
ADVANTAGE, THE GLOBALISTS SAY
BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE MEANT AT
ALL.
AND IN THE LAST WEEK, TWO
WEEKS, IN FACT YEAH, IT'S THE
LAST TEN DAYS THE WEST, GREAT
BELIEVERS IN GLOBALIZATION SAID
TO CHINA IF YOU DON'T STOP
EXPORTING TO US WE'RE GONNA PUT
TARIFFS ON YOU.
AND SO THE CHINESE IN ORDER NOT
TO BE HUMILIATED BY THE WEST,
WHICH THEY DON'T REALLY ENJOY
PUT TARIFFS ON THEMSELVES, VERY
HIGH TARIFFS ON A LARGE NUMBER
OF THEIR EXPORTS.
AND NOW THEY'RE LICKING THEIR
WOUNDS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT TO DO ABOUT WHAT TURNED
OUT NOT TO BE GLOBAL MARKETS.
AND WHAT THIS EXPERIENCE
REVEALED WAS THAT THIS IDEA OF
GLOBALIZATION, WHICH WAS
THEORETICALLY AN OPENING UP OF
THE WORLD WAS INCREDIBLY CLOSE
IN FACT TO WHAT WE HAD IN ABOUT
1900.
WHEN WE HAD A SMALL NUMBER OF
DEVELOPED, INDUSTRIAL
ECONOMIES, WHICH HAD MORE OR
LESS FREE TRADE AMONG THEM.
AND THEN MOST OF THOSE NATION
STATES ALSO HAD EMPIRES.
SO THEY COMBINED FREE TRADE
AMONG THEMSELVES WITH A KIND OF
17TH CENTURY INTERNATIONAL
MERCANTILIST SYSTEM.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER
MERCANTILISM FROM ECONOMICS AND
I DON'T KNOW, GRADE WHATEVER.
UM, WHICH IS YOU KNOW
INTERNATIONAL OLIGOPOLIES,
WHERE YOU FIX PRICES AND FIX
PATTERNS ON THE BASIS OF WHO
PRODUCES WHAT AT WHAT LEVEL.
SO THEY HAD THE EMPIRES WHICH
WERE MERCANTILIST AND THE FREE
TRADE WHICH WAS FREE TRADE
AMONG THEMSELVES AND THEY PUT
THE TWO TOGETHER AND SORT OF
TALKED ABOUT THEM SEPARATELY.
WE'RE FREE TRADERS.
WE'RE EMPIRES.
AND THEY NEVER TALKED ABOUT THE
TWO AS WORKING ONE OFF THE
OTHER.
SUDDENLY IN THE LAST WEEK IT'S
BECOME INCREDIBLY CLEAR THAT
THE SYSTEM THAT WAS IN PLACE
CALLED GLOBALIZATION WAS AT ITS
HEART A NEW VERSION OF THE
MERCANTILIST FREE TRADE
METHODOLOGY.
AND OF COURSE AS HAPPENED IN
THE 18TH CENTURY WHEN THERE WAS
A BIG ARGUMENT BETWEEN INDIA SO
TO SPEAK AND BRITAIN OVER CHEAP
COTTON.
AS HAPPENED IN THE 19TH CENTURY
WHEN THE CHINESE HAD THE GOODS
WE WANTED TO BUY, BUT DIDN'T
WANT TO BUY ANY OF OURS SO WE
HAD TWO WARS CALLED THE OPIUM
WARS IN ORDER TO TRY AND GET
THEM INTO LINE SO THEY
UNDERSTOOD HOW THE GLOBE
WORKED.
FOR A THIRD CENTURY IN A ROW
WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF SAYING TO
ASIA, GLOBALIZATION WORKS OUR
WAY AND ITS CENTERED IN THE
WEST.
NOW I DON'T THINK ITS GONNA
WORK FRANKLY, BUT WHAT IT TELLS
YOU IS THAT IT ISN'T
GLOBALIZATION.
THAT IT ISN'T GLOBALIZATION
WHICH IS FUNCTIONING.
IT'S SOMETHING QUITE
INTERESTING AND OLD-FASHIONED.
THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE
WORLD.
I COULD SPEND THE WHOLE EVENING
JUST GIVING YOU EXAMPLE...
AFTER
EXAMPLE OF EXAMPLE.
SOME OF THEM FANTASTIC, SOME OF
THEM AWFUL AND WHAT'S HAPPENING
IN THE WORLD.
AND NONE OF THEM FIT INTO THE
MODEL OF GLOBALIZATION.
SO WHAT,
WELL, LET ME NOW START OVER
AGAIN.
NOW GLOBALIZATION, WHAT IS IT?
YOU KNOW I'M PRETTY NEAR THE
UNIVERSITY AND YOU'RE SUPPOSED
TO DEFINE THINGS.
AND PEOPLE WHO'VE READ ME KNOW
THAT I HATE DEFINITIONS CAUSE I
DON'T BELIEVE THEM MYSELF.
BUT HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.
YOU KNOW YOU, YOU MUST ALWAYS
BEWARE OF WORDS WHICH ARE
CAPABLE OF MEANING ANYTHING.
IT USUALLY IS A SIGN THAT THEY
NO LONGER MEAN ANYTHING.

[Audience laughs]

John continues SO BY THE
TIME EVERYBODY WAS WALKING
AROUND SAYING WELL, I WILL HAVE
DINNER WITH YOU TONIGHT BY THE
GRACE OF GOD.
IT REALLY MEANT THAT YOU KNOW
CHRISTIANITY WAS ON THE WAY OUT.

[Audience laughing]

John continues AND UM,
WHEN EVERY SENTENCE JUSTIFIED
EVERY ACTION SAID YOU KNOW
WELL, WE'RE, WE'RE BUSY
RATIONALIZING IN ORDER TO DO
THIS.
AND BY USING RATIONAL
METHODOLOGY YOU KNEW YOU WERE
INTO A TOTALLY IRRATIONAL
PERIOD.

[Audience laughs]

John continues AND TODAY
THE WORD GLOBALIZATION HAS
REPLACED REASON AND BY THE
GRACE OF GOD AND IS USED, ISN'T
IT FABULOUS THE WAY THE KIDS
ARE TRAVELLING AROUND THE WORLD
TODAY?
GLOBALIZATION IS FANTASTIC.
WHAT'S IT GOT TO DO WITH
GLOBALIZATION?

[Audience laughing]

John continues IT HAS
NOTHING TO DO WITH
GLOBALIZATION.
ARE THEY SAYING THAT THE GRAND
TOUR OF THE 18TH CENTURY WAS A
PRECURSOR OF GLOBALIZATION?

[Audience laughs]

John continues YOU KNOW,
GLOBALIZATION IS A VERY PRECISE
TERM, NOT BY MY DEFINITION.
BUT BY THE DEFINITION OF THE
PEOPLE WHO INVENTED IT AND PUT
IT IN PLACE.
TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE 50S AND
60S.
STARTED WINNING BATTLES, VERY
IMPORTANT PUBLIC BATTLES IN THE
70S AND REALLY HELD POWER FROM
THE MID 70S THROUGH TO THE MID
90S, AND THEN STARTED TO LOSE
POWER FROM THE MID 90S ON.
AND THE CENTRAL THEME OF
GLOBALIZATION AS THEY EXPLAINED
IT, NOT AS I EXPLAIN IT, AS
THEY EXPLAINED IT.
THIS IS THE DIFFICULTY IN
TRYING TO WRITE SOMETHING LIKE
THIS.
I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU, I'M NOT
MAKING AN ANTI-GLOBALIST SPEECH
OR WRITING AN ANTI-GLOBALIST
BOOK.
I'M TELLING YOU WHAT THEY SAID.
WHAT HAPPENED AS IT WENT UP, AS
IT STALLED, AS IT WENT INTO A
FALL AND WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
I MAY HAVE IDEAS OF MY OWN, AND
I TRY TO ALLOW THEM TO SHOW
BECAUSE I'M A RELATIVELY HONEST
PERSON, BUT I'M NEVERTHELESS
TRYING TO TELL YOU THIS IS WHAT
THEY SAID AND THIS IS WHAT HAS
HAPPENED.
UM, THEY SAID THAT BECAUSE OF
TECHNOLOGY AND BECAUSE OF THE
SIZE OF THE MARKETPLACE, A
SMALL LIST OF THINGS THAT FROM
NOW ON CIVILIZATION WOULD BE
SEEN, DRIVEN AND ORGANIZED
THROUGH AN ECONOMIC PRISM.
THAT ECONOMICS WOULD BE THE
METHOD, THE VIEW, THE GLASSES,
THE TELESCOPE, THE, THE, THE
MECHANISM THROUGH WHICH WE
ORGANIZED EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING WOULD BE JUDGED
SUCCESSFUL OR UNSUCCESSFUL
THROUGH ECONOMICS.
IT WOULD BE THE MODEL THAT
WOULD BUILD DEMOCRACIES, THAT
WOULD BRING PROSPERITY.
THAT WOULD, EVERYTHING WOULD BE
SEEN THROUGH THIS ECONOMIC
PRISM.
IT'S A REALLY SILLY IDEA.
YOU KNOW NO SERIOUS ECONOMIST
IN THE HISTORY OF ECONOMICS
EVER SAID THAT THIS WAS
POSSIBLE.
ADAM SMITH NEVER SAID IT.
NOBODY EVER SAID THAT.
BUT IT WAS TREATED SERIOUSLY
FROM THE 70S ON.
PARTLY BECAUSE THERE WAS
SOMEWHAT OF A CRISIS IN THE
LATE 60S.
HEAVY DEBTS, DEPENDING ON THE
COUNTRY WE'RE IN.
A MALAISE, AND IN, IN THIS
CRISIS THE ESTABLISHED ELITES
OF THE LAST, WELL OF THE POST-
WAR PERIOD REALLY REACTED VERY
BADLY.
THEY GOT USED TO BEING IN
POWER.
THEY GOT TO USED TO RUNNING
LARGE BUREAUCRACIES.
AND INSTEAD OF REACTING TO THE
CRISIS BY SAYING LOOK, WE HAVE
TO HANDLE SOME OF THESE
PROBLEMS.
WE HAVE TO CLEAR UP, CLEAN UP
OUR SITUATION IN LAW REFORM,
ADMINISTRATIVE REFORM, DO THE
SERVICES IN A MORE EFFECTIVE
MANNER AND SO ON.
INSTEAD OF THAT THEY SIMPLY
SET, THEY SIMPLY SET ABOUT
DEFENDING THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF
THE, OF THE SYSTEM IN PLACE,
INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BRING IT
INTO A SHAPE WHICH WORKED,
WOULD WORK.
TO CLEAN UP THE CRISIS AND TO
ALLOW US TO GO ONTO THE NEXT
STAGE.
AND BY TAKING THIS LETHARGIC,
DEFENSIVE, TECHNOCRATIC
APPROACH LED BY, I MIGHT ADD,
LED BY THE FIRST REAL, THE
FIRST GENERATION OF REAL
TECHNOCRATS TO TAKE POWER IN
THE WESTERN DEMOCRACIES LED BY
PEOPLE LIKE GISCARD D'ESTAING.
TOTALLY UNSUITED TO PUBLIC
DEBATE.
TOTALLY UNSUITED TO ANY KIND OF
INTERCOURSE WITH A...
IN A
DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY.
UM, AND THEY FOUND THEMSELVES
IN POWER, THEY FOUND THEMSELVES
IN A CRISIS AND IN THE MID 70S

-
WHEN
EVERYTHING WAS UP IN THE AIR
THERE WAS WHAT I THINK WAS AN
HISTORIC SPEECH GIVEN BY VALERY
GISCARD D'ESTAING, WHO HAD BEEN
ELECTED TO PRESIDENT OF FRANCE.
YOUNG, TECHNOCRATIC, ECONOMIST,
COULD RUN ANYTHING, SUDDENLY
FOUND HIMSELF WITH 19 percent
INFLATION, NO GROWTH AND SO ON.
HE TRIED TO DO STUFF FOR ABOUT
A YEAR AND THEN HE WENT ON
TELEVISION AND GAVE A SPEECH,
WHICH I HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO
HEAR, IN WHICH HE SAID YOU KNOW
I'M PRESIDENT OF FRANCE AND YOU
WERE REALLY SMART TO ELECT ME
CAUSE I'M SMART.
UM, AND I KNOW EVERYTHING THERE
IS TO KNOW AND I CAN TELL YOU
THAT WE'RE NOW INTO A PERIOD
WHERE GLOBAL FORCES ARE SO
STRONG THAT THERE'S ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING I CAN DO.
BUT PLEASE VOTE FOR ME NEXT
TIME.

[Audience laughing]

John continues AND HE
REALLY INVENTED THE HEAD OF
STATE, HEAD OF GOVERNMENT AS
CASTRATI.

[Audience laughing]

John continues AND THIS
CASTRATED LEADERSHIP BECAME THE
MODEL THROUGH THE WHOLE
GLOBALIST PERIOD, WHICH WAS
GIVE ME POWER BUT ALL I CAN DO
IS HANDLE THE MARGINS.
AND IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING
THAT, THAT SORT OF DISCOURSE
BROUGHT NO CREDIT TO MAINSTREAM
DEMOCRACY.
BROUGHT NO CREDIT TO THE
SYSTEMS IN PLACE, THE ECONOMIC
IDEAS IN PLACE.
AND ENCOURAGED PEOPLE TO GO IN
VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.
ONE DIRECTION WAS BELIEF IN THE
GLOBALIST NEO-LIBERAL THEORIES
AND THE OTHER WAS TO SIMPLY
MOVE RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE
SYSTEM AND THAT STARTED TO SHOW
ITSELF IN THE EARLY 1990S WITH
THE RISE OF THE NGOS.
AFTER ALL, WHY WOULD A YOUNG
PERSON GO INTO POLITICS IF THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE LEADING THE
COUNTRIES TELL THEM THAT THEY
DON'T HAVE ANY POWER?
CAN YOU THINK OF A FASTER WAY
TO TURN NEW GENERATIONS OFF?
ANYWAY, THE CRISIS AS I
MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING
REALLY WAS HAD ITS CON, HAD ITS
FIRST BIG CONCRETE MOMENT IN
1971 WHEN RICHARD NIXON DECIDED
THAT THE ONLY WAY FOR THE
UNITED STATES OUT OF ITS
PROBLEMS, WHICH HAD BEEN
CREATED BY THE WAY IT ACTED
DURING THE, AND NOT NECESSARILY
BADLY BUT THE WAY IT ACTED
DURING THE KEYNESIAN PERIOD, THE
ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS DEBT,
TRADE, CRISIS WAS TO DEVALUE.
AND SO IN 1971 NIXON DID AWAY
WITH BRETON WOODS MORE OR LESS
AND DEVALUED.
THEREBY SETTING OFF A WHOLE
WAVE OF FURTHER CRISES, WHICH
GIVE YET MORE POWER TO THE
GLOBALISTS.
AND I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED THE
2004 DEVALUATION, WHICH WAS
DONE IN A MORE SOPHISTICATED
WAY.
BUT WAS NEVERTHELESS A
DEVALUATION AND I THINK YOU
COULD SAY THAT THEY'RE THE
BOOKENDS IN SOME WAYS OF THE
GLOBALIST PERIOD.
YOU KNOW THAT'S 35 YEARS AND
YOU KNOW MY FEELING HAS ALWAYS
BEEN THAT MOST ECONOMIC
THEORIES GET BETWEEN 25 AND 50
YEARS IN POWER.
THAT'S A LONG TIME.
35 YEARS IS ABOVE AVERAGE.
CERTAINLY IT'S RARE THAT YOU
GET BEYOND THAT.
UM, MARXISM AS APPLIED IN THE
SOVIET UNION GOT ABOUT 60
YEARS.
BUT THEY HAD A SECRET POLICE
AND AN ARMY TO BACK IT UP.

[Audience laughs]

John continues AND IT
DOES WONDER FOR ECONOMIC
THEORY.

[Audience laughing]

John continues UM, I
THINK THE OTHER BOOKENDS OF THE
PERIOD, NOT, NOT QUITE THE SAME
DATES, BUT THE OTHER BOOKENDS
ARE NEW ZEALAND.
NEW ZEALAND GOT INTO A
SLIGHTLY, DEEPER CRISIS THEN
THE OTHER DEMOCRACIES AND BY
THE EARLY 80S FELT THAT IT WAS
IN REALLY BIG TROUBLE.
NOT AS BIG AS HAS BEEN SAID BUT
IN BIG TROUBLE.
AND THERE WAS AN ELECTION.
AND A MINISTER OF FINANCE CAME
TO OFFICE, WHO WITHOUT TELLING
ANYBODY DURING THE ELECTION WAS
COMPLETELY CONVERTED TO A NEO-
LIBERAL, GLOBALIST VIEW.
AND SET ABOUT TAKING NEW
ZEALAND INTO TOTAL ACCEPTANCE
OF THE GLOBAL IDEA AND IT
BECAME AS YOU KNOW THE POSTER
CHILD OF GLOBALIZATION FROM THE
EARLY 80S ON.
WHAT HAPPENED FAIRLY, IT DID A
LITTLE BIT OF GOOD IN THE
BEGINNING CAUSE IT CLEANED UP
SOME OF THE PROBLEMS.
BUT WHAT HAPPENED VERY RAPIDLY
WAS ALMOST EVERY MAJOR, NEW
ZEALAND CORPORATION WAS SOLD
OFF IN THIS BORDERLESS WORLD,
BOTH GOVERNMENTAL AND PRIVATE.
SO SINCE ALL OF THEIR MAJOR
CORPORATIONS WERE OWNED ABROAD,
IT MEANT THAT ALL PAYMENTS TO
THE OWNERS OF THE CORPORATION
HAD TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
SO WHAT HAD BEEN SOLD OFF IN
THE NAME OF INVESTMENT, A VERY
INTERESTING POINT FOR
CANADIANS, ACTUALLY LED TO A
CONSTANT DRAINING OF CURRENCY
OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
A NEGATIVE, A PERMANENT
NEGATIVE BALANCE IN TERMS OF
MONEY GOING IN AND OUT OF THE
COUNTRY.
THE ECONOMY STALLED.
UNEMPLOYMENT SOARED.
THE KIDS STARTED LEAVING THE
COUNTRY.
GENER, ABOUT THREE GENERATIONS
OF KIDS LEFT IN VERY HIGH
PERCENTAGES GOING PRINCIPALLY
TO AUSTRALIA, BUT ALSO TO
EUROPE.
AND IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE 90S A VERY,
INTERESTING, CITIZENS MOVEMENT,
RATHER CONFUSED, GOT ENOUGH
INFLUENCE TO HAVE THE ELECTION
SYSTEM ALTERED.
BECAUSE THE REASON THAT NEW
ZEALAND HAS SO OFTEN BEEN A
BELL WEATHER COUNTRY IS THAT...
IT WAS A
SINGLE LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT.
IF YOU WIN THE PARLIAMENTARY
ELECTIONS YOU BASICALLY HAVE
POWER OVER THE COUNTRY.
AND SO THIS ALLOWED IT TO DO
WOMEN'S RIGHTS FIRST, TO DO
PUBLIC HEALTHCARE FIRST, TO DO
GLOBALIZATION FIRST.
GOOD, QUESTIONABLE BUT FAST.
AND SO THIS MOVEMENT SUCCEEDED
IN HAVING THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM
REFORMED TO SOMETHING VERY,
VERY COMPLICATED, WHICH I DON'T
QUITE UNDERSTAND.
BUT IT SEEMS TO WORK.
AND THEN THEY HAD A CONFUSED
COUPLE OF YEARS.
AND THEN IN 1999, IT PRODUCED A
COALITION GOVERNMENT, WHICH
CAME TO POWER SAYING THAT THEY
WERE FINISHED WITH
GLOBALIZATION.
IT WAS OVER.
AND THEY WON, THEY WON AGAIN
AND THEY SET ABOUT TAKING NEW
ZEALAND IN A VERY, DIFFERENT
DIRECTION THEN IT HAD GONE
DURING THE GLOBALIST PERIOD.
THESE, THERE WERE TWO MINISTERS
OF FINANCE IN A ROW.
THE SECOND ONE WAS A WOMAN
CALLED MISS RICHARDSON AND WHEN
NEW ZEALAND ABANDONED ITS LIFE
AS A POSTER CHILD SHE SAID THE
WIMPS HAVE WON.
AND IN A WAY SHE WAS RIGHT
BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T
BELIEVE IN ABSOLUTE TRUTHS, IN
INEVITABILITIES HAD INDEED WON.
SO TWO DEVALUATIONS.
A BIG EXPERIMENT THAT COMES TO
AN END IN 99 AND ALL OF THIS
HAS TO BE SEEN IN THE
ATMOSPHERE THAT SURROUNDS
IDEOLOGIES.
NOT ECONOMIC THEORIES,
IDEOLOGIES.
ECONOMIC THEORIES, THERE ARE
DOZENS OF THEM.
AND THEY WORK BEST WHEN THEY'RE
A BIT CONFUSED AND YOU'RE
TRYING THREE OR FOUR OF THEM AT
THE SAME TIME.
YOU KNOW BECAUSE THERE IS NO
TRUTH IN ECONOMICS.
IT'S A, IT'S A SPECULATION,
IT'S A, IT'S A SPECIALIZATION
IN SPECULATION, SPECULATIVE
THEORIES.
UM, IDEOLOGIES ON THE OTHER
HAND BELIEVE THERE IS ONLY ONE
TRUTH.
IT IS SOME FORM OF GOD, SOME
FORM OF DEITY.
AND BECAUSE IT IS TRUE AND
ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND IS THE ONE
TRUTH, THEREFORE WHATEVER IT
PRODUCES IS CERTAIN AND
INEVITABLE.
AND SO FOR A GREAT DEAL OF THE
LAST THREE DECADES THE WORD
INEVITABLE WAS USED AGAIN AND
AGAIN AND AGAIN, INTRODUCED BY
GISCARD D'ESTAING.
HE SAID IT IS INEVITABLE THAT
INTERNATIONAL FORCES WILL LEAD
US DOWN CERTAIN ROADS AND I
CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
BURLINGTON DEMONSTRATED THAT
INEVITABILITY DOESN'T ACTUALLY
NECESSARILY WORK.
AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE
IN IT.
SO I THINK THAT YEAH, I THINK
WE'LL STEP BACK FROM THIS.
THAT'S HOW IT STARTED.
THOSE ARE SOME BOOKENDS, NEW
ZEALAND AND THE UNITED STATES.
BUT WHAT DOES IT ACTUALLY LOOK
LIKE?
WELL, WHAT IT SEEMS TO LOOK
LIKE IS THAT WE IN THE WEST
REALLY HAVE A PASSION FOR
PERIODS OF CERTAINTY, FOR
IDEOLOGIES.
OF COURSE WHEN WE'RE DOING THEM
WE WOULD DENY ABSOLUTELY THAT
THEY WERE IDEOLOGIES.
THEY CAN'T BE IDEOLOGIES.
THEY'RE TRUE, RIGHT?
IT'S JUST TRUTH.
I MEAN IT'S NOT EVEN A BELIEF
SYSTEM.
IT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE
AND ITS INEVITABLE THAT THEY
WILL BE THAT WAY AS LONG AS THE
WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF
LASTS.

[Audience laughs]

John continues SO YOU
HAVE THESE PERIODS OF
CERTAINTY.
IF ITS ECONOMICS IT LASTS 25 TO
50 YEARS AND THEN THEY FALL
APART IN A SLOW WAY.
WHICH IS USUALLY ONLY PART,
PARTIALLY RECOGNIZED BY THE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE POWER BECAUSE
THEY HAVE A GREAT DEAL TO LOSE
BY RECOGNIZING WHAT'S
HAPPENING.
AND WE SLIP INTO A PERIOD,
WHICH IS A RATHER DIFFERENT
SORT OF VACUUM.
A VACUUM WHICH IS FILLED WITH
CONFLICTING FORCES, GOING IN
DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.
VERY HARD TO MAKE OUT WHAT'S
GOING ON.
AND THEN AT SOME POINT AFTER A
FEW YEARS, FIVE, TEN YEARS WE
COME OUT OF THE VACUUM INTO
ANOTHER PERIOD OF CERTAINTY.
SOME OF THESE PERIODS OF
CERTAINTY AND QUITE SO CERTAIN
AND ARE THEREFORE BETTER.
AND OTHERS ARE VERY CERTAIN AND
ARE QUITE CATASTROPHIC.
MY ARGUMENT IS WE'RE IN THE
MIDDLE OF THE VACUUM.
WE LEFT GLOBALIZATION MORE OR
LESS IN 1995.
WE'VE BEEN LIVING
UNCONSCIOUSNESS IN A SERIOUS
WAY SINCE 1995.
HOW LONG WILL WE STAY IN THE
VACUUM?
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA.
I'M NOT IN THE PREDICTION
BUSINESS.
I LOSE AT HORSES ANYWAY SO I
DON'T, YOU KNOW I HAVE NO IDEA.
BUT WE WILL COME OUT OF THIS
VACUUM, THIS CONFUSING PERIOD
INTO SOMETHING ELSE.
AND IF WE REMAIN UNCONSCIOUS
AND IN DENIAL THEN WE WILL NOT
BE PREPARED FOR WHAT HAPPENS
NEXT AND WE WILL BE TAKEN BY
SURPRISE AND WE WILL IN EFFECT
BE THE VICTIMS.
WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THESE
PERIODS OF VACUUM IS THEY'RE
PERIODS OF GREAT UNCERTAINTY
AND THEREFORE DANGEROUS, YES.
BUT ALSO GREAT PERIODS OF
CHOICE.
THIS IS WHEN CITIZENS ACTUALLY
HAVE THE MOST POWER.
THE ABILITY TO ACTUALLY SET THE
DIRECTION OF THEIR SOCIETIES
AND OF THEIR CIVILIZATIONS.
SO LET ME JUST ADD A LITTLE
SPECULATIVE IDEA.
I DON'T ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHY
THE WEST...
IS SO
OBSESSED BY TRUTH AND IDEOLOGY.
IT, YOU KNOW IT ISN'T REALLY AS
FAR AS I CAN MAKE OUT SUCH A
BIG CHARACTERISTIC IN OTHER
CIVILIZATIONS.
IT'S DONE
US SOME GREAT GOOD AND SOME
GREAT EVIL.
BUT WHY, WHAT IS THIS WEAKNESS
FOR IDEOLOGY IN WESTERN
CIVILIZATION?
AFTER ALL THIS IS THE, THIS IS
THE CIVILIZATION MOST OBSESSED
BY INDIVIDUALISM.
SO WHY WOULD WE REGULARLY FALL
INTO IDEOLOGIES WHERE WE CAN'T
DO ANYTHING IF WE REALLY
BELIEVE IN INDIVIDUALISM OF
VARIOUS SORTS?
POSITIVE, NEGATIVE,
RESPONSIBLE, SAVAGE.
MY GUESS AND IT'S REALLY A
GUESS, AND I'M, THERE ARE
PROBABLY SOME PHILOSOPHERS IN
THE HALL WHO WOULD CAN SHOUT
EITHER NOW OR LATER.
BUT MY GUESS IS THAT ON THE ONE
HAND WE HAVE, WE'RE TIED TO
PLATO AND PLATONISM IF YOU
LIKE, INTERPRETATION OF PLATO.
AND WE'RE SURPRISINGLY TIED TO
THE OLD TESTAMENT, GOD.
AND SO WHAT THIS MEANS IS YOU
HAVE A COMBINATION OF
PLATONISM, WHICH IS ALL ABOUT
FEAR OF THE PEOPLE.
THE NEED FOR A PYRAMIDAL SYSTEM
WITHIN A LEAD AND CHARGE, AND
WITH AN ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN IDEA
OF WHERE YOU'RE GOING.
ON THE ONE HAND AND ON THE
OTHER HAND A GOD WHO RULES
THROUGH FEAR.
AND THE MARRIAGE OF THESE TWO
THINGS SEEMS TO PERHAPS EXPLAIN
WHY IN SPITE OF OUR BELIEF IN,
IN VIGILISM, WHICH COMES OUT OF
OTHER TRADITIONS IN WESTERN
SOCIETY, WE KEEP FALLING BACK
INTO THE OLD, PLATONIST FEARFUL
GOD, FEAR, FEAR CREATING GOD
SYNDROME.
SO WE HAVE A NARROW, A SHORT
PERIOD OF TIME.
WE HAVE A NARROW PERIOD OF
TIME, DURING WHICH WE MAY BE
ABLE TO CHOOSE.
WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT
MUCH INFLUENCE BECAUSE OTHER
PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED AS WELL,
PARTICULARLY AT A GLOBAL LEVEL.
SO THE, THE IMPORTANCE OF
CONSCIOUSNESS IN OUR ACTIONS,
OUR ABILITY TO IDENTIFY WHAT'S
REALLY GOING ON IS OF ENORMOUS
IMPORTANCE.
AND IT'S OF ENORMOUS IMPORTANCE
TODAY.
SO I SAID THE DEFINITION IS
GLOBALIZATION IS CIVILIZATION
SEEN THROUGH THE PRISM OF
ECONOMICS.
A WHOLE SERIES OF ASSUMPTIONS
WERE ASSERTED AS A RESULT OF
SEEING CIVILIZATION THROUGH
ECONOMICS.
THE POWER OF THE NATION STATE
WOULD THEREFORE OF COURSE WANE
AND SOME PEOPLE SAID IT WOULD
DIE.
THE PEOPLE ON THE EXTREMES.
POWER WOULD THEREFORE LIE WITH
GLOBAL MARKETS, NOT WITH
GOVERNMENTS.
ECONOMICS, NOT POLITICS, OR THE
MILITARY WOULD SHAPE HUMAN
EVENTS.
I JUST WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT
THESE ASSERTIONS.
THEY'RE ALL, I MEAN I MAY BE
DOING THEM NOT QUITE JUSTICE.
BUT YOU KNOW SO WHAT?

[Audience laughs]

John continues UM, I'M
DOING THEM ENOUGH JUSTICE.

[Audience laughs]

John continues FOR A
SPEECH, YOU KNOW.
UM, THESE, AH, AH, ASSERTIONS
UM, YOU SHOULD BE LISTENING TO
THEM IN TERMS OF WHAT'S
HAPPENING TODAY.
ECONOMICS NOT POLITICS OR
ARMIES WILL SHAPE HUMAN EVENTS.
GLOBAL MARKETS NOW BEING
DOMINANT WILL GRADUALLY
ESTABLISH AN INTERNATIONAL
ECONOMIC BALANCE.
THE END OF THE BOOM AND BUST
CONUNDRUM.
MARKETS WILL UNLEASH WAVES OF
TRADE, WHICH THEY CERTAINLY
DID.
THESE WAVES WILL UNLEASH A
BROAD WAVE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH.
THIS WAVE, THIS TIDAL WAVE WILL
RAISE, YOU KNOW THE CLICHÉ, YOU
HEARD IT MANY TIMES OVER THE
LAST 30 YEARS WILL RAISE ALL
SHIPS, POOR AND RICH, BIG AND
SMALL ALIKE IN THE WEST, IN THE
DEVELOPING WORLD.
THE RESULTING PROSPERITY WILL
ALLOW PUT UPON PEOPLE TO TURN
THEIR SOCIETIES INTO
DEMOCRACIES.
THESE DEMOCRACIES AND THIS IS
AN INTERESTING POINT, WHICH
I'LL COME BACK TO.
THE TROUBLE IS WE'VE JUST
DECLARED THAT THE NATION STATES
ARE WANING IF NOT DYING OUT,
AND THEN FIVE STEPS FURTHER ON
ANNOUNCED THAT ACTUALLY
GLOBALIZATION WAS GONNA PRODUCE
DEMOCRACY.
BUT SINCE DEMOCRACY ONLY EXISTS
IN THE NATION STATES, IT ISN'T
CLEAR HOW THAT WORKS.
IT SEEMS TO BE A POLITICAL
SCIENCE 101 CONTRADICTION.
BUT YOU KNOW THERE YOU ARE.
UM, AS A RESULT OF THIS RISE OF
DEMOCRACY THROUGH CAPITALISM
WE'LL SAY, WE'LL SEE A
SHRIVELLING AWAY OF
IRRESPONSIBLE NATIONALISM,
RACISM, AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE.
AND AT THE SAME TIME WE'LL SEE
A RISE OF COMPETITION.
AND THIS COMPETITION WILL WORK
BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE LARGER AND
LARGER CORPORATIONS,
INTERESTING IDEA.
THEIR SIZE WILL MAKE THEM LIKE
VIRTUAL NATION STATES AND
BECAUSE THEY'RE SO BIG THEY
CAN'T BE SUNK.
THERE WILL BE NO BANKRUPTCIES
OF TRANSNATIONALS.
YOU'RE NOT EVEN LAUGHING.
I MEAN YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
THIS.

[Audience laughs]

John continues I MEAN
THINK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE TODAY,
YOU KNOW AH, BECAUSE THEY WILL
BECOME ENORMOUSLY STABLE
GUARANTORS OF, FOR THE FUTURE.
AND IN ADDITION BECAUSE THEY
WILL HAVE SO MUCH MONEY AND SO
MUCH KNOWLEDGE WITHIN THEM THEY
WILL BE ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF
THE MARKET'S LEADERSHIP OF
CIVILIZATION.
AND ALL OF THESE THINGS WILL
CREATE THE CONDITIONS FOR
HEALTHY, DEBT-FREE, GOVERNANCE
FOREVER AND PUBLIC...
ACCOUNTING WILL IN A SENSE
BECOME THE MARK BY WHICH WE
JUDGE THE WELL, BEING OF OUR
SOCIETIES.
AND THEN WE'LL GO ONTO I DON'T
KNOW, A PERFECTLY HAPPY LIFE OF
CONSUMERISM.
AND THE
CYCLES OF HISTORY WILL HAVE
BEEN BROKEN.
IN FACT, HISTORY WILL BE DEAD.

[Audience laughing]

John continues SO THERE
YOU ARE.
THAT'S A NICE, LITTLE SUMMARY.

[Audience laughing]

John continues AND UM,
OF COURSE WHAT'S THE REALITY?
THE REALITY IS THE NATION
STATES HAVE BEEN RESURGENT FOR
THE LAST EIGHT YEARS CLEARLY.
I WOULD SAY SINCE 95 THEY'VE
BEEN RESURGENT.
I WOULD SAY THE NATION STATES
ARE STRONGER TODAY THEN THEY
WERE 30 YEARS AGO.
POLITICS HAS NEVER BEEN SO
DOMINANT.
ARMIES HAVE NEVER, HAVEN'T
PLAYED SUCH A BIG ROLE SINCE
THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
A VERY, INTERESTING TURNING
POINT AFTER SEPTEMBER 11TH,
AFTER THE TRAGEDY OF SEPTEMBER
11TH, WHEN THE THEORETICAL NEW
LEADERS OF THE VIRTUAL, OF THE
WORLD THROUGH THEIR VIRTUAL
NATION STATES, THE
TRANSNATIONALS UM, IF THEY WERE
THE LEADERS OBVIOUSLY WOULD
HAVE RUSHED OUT AND DEALT WITH
THE PROBLEM.
AND THE PRINCIPLE PROBLEM AT
THAT POINT WAS THAT AFTER
SEPTEMBER 11TH THE ECONOMIES OF
THE WORLD WENT INTO A DIVE.
WE WERE HEADING INTO PROBABLY A
BIGGER DEPRESSION THEN 1930S.
AND OUR NEW LEADERS WENT AS
FAST AS THEY COULD AND QUITE
PROPERLY BACK TO THEIR
CORPORATIONS IN ORDER TO SAVE
THE BACON.
AFTER ALL, THEY'RE PAID TO DO A
JOB, NOT PRETEND THEY'RE THE
LEADERS OF THE WORLD.
AND UNFORTUNATELY WHAT PEOPLE
WHO RUN CORPORATIONS DO WHEN
THERE'S AN ECONOMIC CRISIS
ALWAYS, PRETTY WELL, ALWAYS IS
THEY CUT THEIR INVESTMENTS IN
ORDER TO CUT THEIR RISKS.
SO YOU HAVE ALL THESE GIGANTIC
CORPORATIONS AROUND THE WORLD
OVERNIGHT CUTTING THEIR
INVESTMENTS, WHICH OF COURSE
ACCENTUATES THE DROP, THE DIVE
INTO THE DEPRESSION.
SO WHY AREN'T WE IN A
DEPRESSION?
WELL BECAUSE THE CASTRATI
DISCOVERED THAT THEY HADN'T
BEEN.

[Audience laughing]

John continues THEY GOT
ON THE PHONE, PRESIDENTS, PRIME
MINISTERS, HEADS OF NATIONAL
BANKS, MINISTERS OF FINANCES,
HEADS OF INTERNATIONAL
INSTITUTIONS, THEY GOT ON
PLANES.
THEY GOT ON THE PHONE.
THEY PRINTED MONEY.
YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO PRINT
MONEY IN GLOBALIZATION.
THEY PRINTED MONEY, UNLIMITED
AMOUNTS.
THEY LENT OUT, THEY SPENT
BILLIONS.
THEY TALKED.
THEY CALMED.
THEY CALMED THE SITUATION AND
STOPPED THE COLLAPSE INTO A
DEPRESSION AND IN THE PROCESS
OF COURSE DISCOVERED THAT THEY
DID HAVE IN POWER.
THAT THEY WERE IN CHARGE.
THEY WEREN'T SIMPLY ELECTED.
THEY WERE IN CHARGE AND THEY
COULD ACTUALLY MAKE CHOICES,
WHICH WOULD CHANGE THE
DIRECTION OF SOCIETY.
AND AFTER 2001, FOR BETTER AND
FOR WORSE DEPENDING ON THE
SUBJECT THEY BECAME MUCH MORE
OBSTREPEROUS WHEN IT CAME TO
THE INEVITABLE, INEVITABILITY
OF ECONOMIC THEORY.
THEY SIMPLY DIDN'T REALLY
ACCEPT IT EVEN MORE, EVEN
THOUGH THEIR LANGUAGE HADN'T
CHANGED THAT MUCH, WHICH IS A
PROBLEM I'LL COME BACK TO.
LET ME JUST SAY THAT IN
ADDITION TO THAT, THAT DON'T
THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT THE
PROBLEM OF ARMIES RETURNED TO
THE CENTER OF OUR LIFE BEGINS
WITH SEPTEMBER 11TH.
IN FACT FROM 1945 TO 2000 AND
THESE STATISTICS ARE THE BEST I
CAN DO.
THEY'RE NOT MINE, BUT I'VE
LOOKED AT A LOT OF STATISTICS.
THE STATISTICS ARE THAT
APPROXIMATELY 40,000,000 PEOPLE
DIED IN WAR DIRECTLY AND
INDIRECTLY BETWEEN 1945 AND
2000.
MOST OF THEM OF COURSE YOU
WOULD THINK DURING THE PERIOD
OF COLONIAL, WARS OF COLONIAL
INDEPENDENCE.
ACTUALLY BETWEEN 1945 AND 1970,
18,000,000 PEOPLE DIED IN WAR,
AND IN THE GLOBALIST PERIOD,
1971 TO 2000 LET'S SAY,
22,000,000 PEOPLE DIED IN WAR.
AN EXTREMELY, VIOLENT PERIOD.
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THE
STATISTICIANS, I LOVE
STATISTICIANS, I MEAN ITS SUCH
A FUN JOB.

[Audience laughs]

John continues HAD THIS
IDEA THAT IN ADDITION TO PEOPLE
KILLED IN WAR, THERE'S ANOTHER
KIND OF DEATH DURING WAR WHICH
IS CALLED, THEY CALL EXCESS
DEATH.

[Audience laughs]

John continues I MEAN IT
IS FUN, ISN'T IT?

[Audience laughing]

John continues I MEAN
UM, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT AN
EXCESS DEATH IS.
WELL, I DO.
AN EXCESS DEATH, I DON'T KNOW
WHY THEY CHOSE THE NAME.
AN EXCESS DEATH IS PEOPLE WHO
DIED BECAUSE WAR'S MADE YOUR
SOCIETY SO UNSTABLE THAT YOU
COULDN'T BE FED OR DISEASES
COULD NOT BE FOUGHT.
IN 19, IN THE 1970S THE ANNUAL
EXCESS DEATHS WERE 12,000,000.
IN 2003 THE ANNUAL EXCESS
DEATHS WERE 25,000,000.
JUST TO, YOU KNOW I JUST WANT
TO, I MEAN IT'S WORTH BORING
YOU WITH THE STATISTICS JUST TO
GIVE YOU A SENSE, THIS IS THE
REALITY OF THE GLOBAL WORLD.
THIS IS WHAT'S ACTUALLY
HAPPENING OUT THERE IF IT'S NOT
HAPPENING HERE.
GOING BACK TO THE PROMISES THAT
THE, THE DEREGULATED MARKETS
WOULD LEAD TO.
AN INTERNATIONAL BALANCE, WELL
YOU KNOW THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
THAT THE BOOM, BUST CYCLES
WOULD COME TO AN END.
THAT'S NOT SO.
TRADE GREW, NO QUESTION ABOUT
IT.
12 TO 22 TIMES INCREASE IN
TRADE.
BUT THE ASTONISHING THING IS IT
DIDN'T PRODUCE A BURST IN
GROWTH.
THE LAST 30 YEARS HAVE HAD EACH
YEAR EITHER AVERAGE GROWTH OR
MEDIOCRE OR WELL, BELOW AVERAGE
GROWTH.
SO A GIGANTIC INCREASE IN THE
MOVING AROUND OF GOODS, WHICH
DID NOT PRODUCE THE GROWTH AND
THE NEW WEALTH THAT IT OUGHT TO
HAVE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY.
NOBODY
SEEMS TO KNOW WHY.
THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT WHY
OF COURSE.
ONE HAS TO GUESS.
MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE USING
DEFINITIONS OF TRADE, WHICH
WERE ACTUALLY COBBLED TOGETHER
IN THE LATE 18TH CENTURY.
IN THE
EARLY 19TH CENTURY.
WHEN REALLY PEOPLE LIKE SMITH
WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU KNOW
BUSINESS BEING DONE BY PEOPLE
WHO LIVED IN THE SAME TOWN AND
MAYBE TRADED WITH ONE COUNTRY,
A LITTLE, NOT TOO FAR AWAY.
AND THEY WERE TRADING VERY,
SPECIFIC SORTS OF GOODS.
TODAY THE MAJORITY OF THE GOODS
TRADED AROUND THE WORLD ARE
BITS AND PIECES MOVING INSIDE
SINGLE, TRANSNATIONAL
CORPORATIONS.
NOT SO MUCH BECAUSE THEY'RE
CHEAPER IN VARIOUS PLACES, BUT
BECAUSE OF TAX POLICY INSIDE
THE CORPORATIONS.
AND THIS MEANS THAT ACTUALLY
THE MOVEMENT OF THESE GOODS IS
NOT ABOUT MAKING PROFITS AND
LONG TERM INVESTMENTS.
IT'S REALLY ABOUT CORPORATE TAX
POLICY.
MAYBE OVER HALF THE TRADE TODAY
ISN'T ACTUALLY TRADE, JUST
MOVEMENTS OF BITS AND PIECES.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE.
BUT I'D KIND OF LIKE ALL THOSE
PEOPLE WHO ARE TENURED
ECONOMISTS TO SPEND SOME TIME
ON IT.
SO THAT I DON'T HAVE TO DO IT
WITHOUT MY TENURE, YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE IT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION.

[Audience laughs]

John continues THE OTHER
INTERESTING QUESTION IS THE
ASTONISHING INCREASE IN THE
QUANTITY OF MONEY DURING THIS
PERIOD OF TIME.
MONEY OF ALL SORTS, WHETHER
IT'S CREDIT CARDS OR DIFFERENT
KINDS OF FUNDS, WHICH ARE NOT
CONTROLLED BY NATIONAL
REGULATIONS.
AN ENORMOUS INCREASE IN MONEY,
BUT THAT ALSO DID NOT PRODUCE
NEW WEALTH IN ANY WAY THAT A
CIVILIZATION COULD UNDERSTAND
IT.
ITS AS IF THE MONEY IS
VAPORIZED, FOR EXAMPLE
VAPORIZED THROUGH ENDLESS UM,
MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS, WHICH
OF COURSE IS NOT INVESTMENT OR
GROWTH.
IT'S ACTUALLY JUST BUYING AND
SELLING BIG PIECES FOR ENORMOUS
AMOUNTS OF DEBT AND THEN
RESELLING THEM FOR MORE
ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF DEBT.
AND THAT MONEY ESSENTIALLY
DISAPPEARS.
IT IS ESSENTIALLY VAPORIZED
BECAUSE IT ISN'T ACTUALLY ABOUT
BUILDING SOMETHING NEW.
THOSE ARE TWO POSSIBILITIES,
BUT OBVIOUSLY IT WOULD TAKE A
GREAT DEAL MORE THEN THAT.
I THINK ONE OF THE MOST
INTERESTING AND TROUBLING
QUESTIONS IS THAT I SUPPOSE ONE
OF THE TWO OR THREE MOST
IMPORTANT CREATIONS OF NEW
WEALTH IN THE LAST 50 YEARS HAS
BEEN THE FINAL ARRIVAL, NOT YET
COMPLETE UNFORTUNATELY, THE
FINAL ARRIVAL OF WOMEN IN EVERY
AREA OF SOCIETY.
NOT SIMPLY IN THE LOWER PAID
JOBS.
SUDDENLY WOMEN ARE EVERYWHERE.
NOT ENOUGH, BUT THEY'RE
EVERYWHERE.
THIS IS A REAL INPUT OF REAL
WEALTH, OF REAL INVESTMENT IN
ANY CLASS OF ECONOMIC TERMS.
AND YET IN THE 1960S A MIDDLE,
CLASS MALE WITH A WIFE AT HOME
AND TWO TO THREE CHILDREN COULD
BASICALLY PAY FOR THEIR FAMILY.
AGREED THEY DIDN'T CONSUME AS
MUCH.
WHEREAS TODAY YOU NEED THE
INCOME OF BOTH THE HUSBAND AND
THE WIFE IN ORDER TO RUN A
FAMILY THAT'S GOT 1.7 CHILDREN.
AND IT ISN'T ABOUT THE
CONSUMPTION.
SOMEHOW THE WEALTH PRODUCED BY
THE WOMEN HAS BEEN VAPORIZED
AWAY DURING THE GLOBALIST
PERIOD.
SO THAT IT IS IN A SENSE, ONE
HAS TO WORK HARDER AND HARDER
BECAUSE ITS LESS AND LESS
WEALTH EVEN THOUGH THERE'S MORE
AND MORE MONEY.
IF THAT SOUNDS CONFUSING THAT'S
ALL RIGHT.
IT IS CONFUSING CAUSE IT
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
AND IF I WERE A WOMAN I'D BE
PARTICULARLY FURIOUS THAT THE
KIND OF CONTRIBUTION THAT
THEY'RE MAKING TO SOCIETY HAS
NOT PRODUCED THE KIND OF NEW
WEALTH, WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT
WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE
QUANTITIES OF HOMELESS FOOD
BANKS, HOMELESS SHELTERS,
ETCETERA THAT WE NOW HAVE IN
CANADA AND OTHER PLACES AROUND
THE WORLD.
NOW LET ME JUST RUN THROUGH
SOME, A SORT OF WHAT HAPPENED
IN THE LATTER PART OF
GLOBALIZATION.
I THINK THE TURNING POINT WAS
1995.
LATE 1994, KENSARWEEWA WAS HUNG
WITH A NUMBER OF HIS
COMPATRIOTS IN NIGERIA AND
SUDDENLY THERE WAS A
REALIZATION THAT THE ROLE OF
THE TRANSNATIONALS COULD BE
NEGATIVE TO THE RISE OF
DEMOCRACY.
1995, LAST BIG VICTORY OF
GLOBALIZATION AND CREATION OF
THE WTO.
BUT WITH A SERPENT AT HIS
BREAST, WHICH WAS THROUGH
LOBBYING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
WAS INCLUDED, INCLUDED IN THE
WTO RULES, SOMETHING CALLED
TRIPS.
MOST OF THE MAINSTREAM
ECONOMISTS WERE FURIOUS BECAUSE
THEY SAID THAT THIS WAS REALLY
ABOUT PUTTING PEOPLE WHO WERE
SIMPLY COUPON CLIPPERS INTO THE
CENTER OF THEIR IDEA OF WHAT
WOULD BE GLOBAL COMPETITION.
LATE 1994, MEXICO IS RECOGNIZED
AS ONE OF THE BIGGEST SUCCESS
STORIES OF GLOBALIZATION.
A COUPLE OF MONTHS LATER IN
1995 IT COLLAPSES, ONE OF THE
BIGGEST COLLAPSES IN HISTORY,
THE TEQUILA CRISIS.
THE M.A.I. NEGOTIATIONS BEGIN
WITH THE NEGOTIATORS ALMOST
SELF-DESCRIBING THEMSELVES AS
OOZING WITH OPTIMISM.
AT THE SAME TIME THE TWO
LEADERS OF GLOBALIZATION, THE
U.K. AND NEW ZEALAND IN
STATISTICS ARE FOUND TO BE THE
COUNTRIES WHO ARE LEADING IN
INCOME INEQUALITY.
THE DAYTON PEACE ACCORD IS
SIGNED BRINGING AN END TO...
THE CIVIL
WAR IN YUGOSLAVIA.
IT'S GREAT, THE WAR WAS OVER.
THE DAYTON PEACE ACCORD WAS
ENTIRELY CONSTRUCTED AROUND THE
IDEA OF THE WARRING PARTIES...
WHICH WAS
THAT NATION STATES ARE BASED ON
RACE AND BLOOD.
AND IN FACT FOR, UNTIL VERY,
VERY RECENTLY YOU COULDN'T VOTE
IN THE RESULTING COUNTRY UNLESS
YOU IDENTIFIED YOURSELF AS
BELONGING TO A PARTICULAR RACE.
WHICH MEANT THAT IF YOU WERE OF
MIXED BACKGROUND, BOSNIAN AND
CROAT OR YOU, YOU HAD TO LIE
ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.
IF YOU WERE JEWISH, YOU HAD TO
LIE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND IN
ORDER TO BE ABLE TO VOTE.
THE FACT THAT THE WESTERN
DEMOCRACIES ACCEPTED THE DAYTON
IDEA OF THE NATION STATE WAS A
PRECURSOR, A SUGGESTION THAT
THE WORST OF NATIONALISM WAS ON
THE WAY BACK.
RWANDA HAPPENED IN AROUND THAT
PERIOD.
500,000 TO A MILLION, PERHAPS
800,000 PEOPLE DIED.
IS THAT THE FAULT OF
GLOBALIZATION?
IT'S NOT THE FAULT.
BUT THEY SAID THAT IF WE WENT
DOWN A CERTAIN ROAD THIS SORT
OF THING WOULDN'T HAPPEN.
DID THEY HAVE LONG ENOUGH TO
MAKE SURE THIS SORT OF THING
DIDN'T HAPPEN?
I GAVE YOU THE NUMBERS.
THE NUMBERS ARE GOING UP NOT
DOWN IN TERMS OF VIOLENCE.
AND THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO
RESPONSE FROM THE WEST.
AN INCAPACITY TO DEAL WITH IT,
BECAUSE LOOKING AT THE
CIVILIZATION THROUGH THE PRISM
OF ECONOMICS YOU COULDN'T SEE
RWANDA.
THEY SIMPLY COULDN'T SEE IT.
THE G7 COULDN'T HANDLE IT.
NONE OF THE BODIES COULD DEAL
WITH THE REALITY OF WHAT WAS
HAPPENING.
JIM WOLFENSOHN WAS NAMED TO RUN
THE WORLD BANK AND BEGAN A TEN-
YEAR STRUGGLE TO TAKE THE WORLD
BANK IN A SEMI, GLOBALIST, BUT
NOT REALLY GLOBALIST DIRECTION.
AND 1996, CHECHNYA, 50,000 DEAD
IN 18 MONTHS.
IS THAT THE FAULT OF
GLOBALIZATION?
NO.
IT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.
IT'S WHAT ACTUALLY IS HAPPENING
IN THE REAL WORLD.
AND IN THAT YEAR YOU START TO
SEE THE SERIOUS RISE OF
RELIGIOUS BASED POLITICAL
PARTIES IN THE DEMOCRACIES.
IN INDIA, IN ISRAEL, IN TURKEY
AND AFGHANISTAN.
I'M NOT MAKING JUDGEMENT ON ANY
ONE OF THOSE PARTIES.
THAT'S JUST WHAT STARTED TO
HAPPEN.
THE RETURN OF GOD INTO PUBLIC
LIFE.
THERE WAS ALSO SOME VERY
INTERESTING NEW KINDS OF
POSITIVE DEMOCRATIC NATIONALISM
IN PLACES LIKE SCOTLAND.
AND OTHER POSITIVE THINGS LIKE
THE OTTAWA TREATY, THE
LANDMINES TREATY.
WHICH SHOWED THAT SOME PEOPLE
WERE STARTING TO BELIEVE THAT
HAVING JUST THE ONLY NEW
BINDING TREATIES FOR DECADES,
THE ONLY ONES BIG IN THE
ECONOMIC AREA, THAT THIS WAS
CREATING A SERIOUS IMBALANCE.
AND SO WITH THE OTTAWA TREATY
AND THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL
COURT YOU SEE THE BEGINNINGS OF
BINDING, INTERNATIONAL
TREATIES, WHICH ARE NOT ABOUT
ECONOMICS.
BUT THAT'S TWO AGAINST DOZENS
AND DOZENS AND DOZENS, IN FACT
HUNDREDS.
JUST THE BEGINNING OF A CHANGE
OF DIRECTION.
1997, STIGLITZ THE ECONOMIST IS
NAMED AS THE CHIEF ECONOMIST OF
THE WORLD BANK, BANK.
A CLEAR SIGN THAT THE WHAT
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND TO BE THE
WORLD AND HOW THE WORLD WORKS
IS CHANGING.
IN THE SAME YEAR THE ASIAN
MELTDOWN.
IT'S BLAMED BY THE MIF ON WHAT
THEY CALL CRONY CAPITALISM,
WHICH IS ACTUALLY THE
CORPORATIONS BELONG TO PEOPLE.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS CAPITALISM.
ANYWAY THAT'S WHAT THEY BLAMED
IT ON.
BUT IN FACT WHAT CAUSED IT WAS
DEREGULATED MONEY MARKETS,
DEREGULATED CURRENCIES.
AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF WESTERN
MONEY GOING INTO A SMALL NUMBER
OF COUNTRIES THAT DIDN'T NEED
THE MONEY.
AND WHEN THE CRISIS STARTED THE
WHOLE AMOUNT OF THE MONEY
COMING RIGHT BACK OUT WITHIN 12
MONTHS, TOTALLY DESTABILIZING
THESE COUNTRIES.
THE ECONOMISTS BEGIN TO DIVIDE
SERIOUSLY ON THE QUESTION OF
WHAT IT SHOULD GLOBALIZATION BE
MADE UP OF?
AND MANY OF THEM SAY IT SHOULD
NOT BE MADE UP OF THE MONEY
MARKETS AND OF DEREGULATING
CURRENCIES.
THE HEDGE FUNDS IN ALL OF THIS
ARE IDENTIFIED AS BEING OUT OF
CONTROL.
AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT THE
FIRST SIGNS APPEAR OF THE WEST
SLIPPING INTO THAT FEAR THAT I
TALKED ABOUT.
THAT PLATONIST FEARFUL GOD,
FEAR.
WHEN SAMUEL HUNTINGTON, A
RESPECTABLE ACADEMIC WRITES A
RACIST BOOK CALLED "THE CLASH
OF CIVILIZATIONS" IN WHICH HE
SUGGESTS THAT PEOPLE'S
DIFFERENCES ARE REASONS FOR
THEM NOT TO GET ON, AS OPPOSED
TO REASONS FOR THEM TO FIND
EACH OTHER INTERESTING.
1998, STIGLITZ EMPOWERS STATES
OF THE ASIAN CRISIS WAS CAUSED
NOT BY TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT, BUT
BY TOO LITTLE GOVERNMENT.
THE M.A.I. NEGOTIATIONS SLIP
INTO TROUBLE.
GOVERNMENTS START INSISTING
THAT THERE SHOULD BE BINDING
RULES.
THEY'RE GETTING THAT SENSE THAT
THEY ARE NOT CASTRATI BACK.
THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME
BINDING RULES ON LABOUR AND THE
ENVIRONMENT.
AND LATER IN THE YEAR, ABRUPTLY
THE M.A.I. IS ABANDONED.
DOMENIC STRAUSS CANNES, THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE OF FRANCE,
A VERY SMART MAN WHO SAYS,
QUOTES, NO ONE WILL NEGOTIATE
AFTER THE M.A.I. THE WAY THEY
DID BEFORE.
CITIZENS WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT
THAT THEY BE GOVERNED AS THEY
WERE IN THE PAST.
IN ABOUT THIS PERIOD, IN THE
AFTERMATH OF RWANDA, SIMILAR
VIOLENCE BREAKS OUT NEXT DOOR
IN THE CONGO AND OVER A FIVE-
YEAR PERIOD KILLS APPROXIMATELY
4.7 MILLION PEOPLE.
WE'RE
STILL TALKING ABOUT RWANDA.
WE HAVEN'T SAID A WORD ABOUT
THE CONGO.
IT'S JUST NOT REAL.
IN, IN A WORLD LOOKED AT
THROUGH AN ECONOMIC PRISM 4.7
MILLION PEOPLE, PLUS 800,000
PEOPLE, IT ISN'T REAL.
GENERAL LERERE SAYS ITS RACIST
AND I THINK HE'S RIGHT.
BUT ITS
MORE THEN RACIST.
IT'S THE FAILURE OF A WAY OF
ORGANIZING THE WORLD.
A WAY OF THINKING ABOUT THE
WORLD.
IT MAKES US INCAPABLE OF
LOOKING AT WHAT'S ACTUALLY
HAPPENING.
AND THEN THIS FASCINATING
THINGS HAPPENS.
THE ASIAN MELTDOWN, THE YEAR
BEFORE.
THAILAND AND A FEW OTHER
COUNTRIES FOLLOW THE ORDERS OF
THE MIF.
STARTS DOWN THE CRUCIFIXION,
ECONOMICS ROUTE.
AND A RATHER, STRANGE, LEADER,
MR. MATAYER IN MALAYSIA WHO
HAS, WHO, WHO COMBINES
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH SOMETHING
THAT WE'RE GONNA COME TO KNOW
THAT COMBINES NEGATIVE
NATIONALISM AND RACISM WITH AN
IDEA OF ECONOMICS.
MATAYER SAYS I'M NOT GOING TO
FOLLOW THE RULES.
I AM GOING TO FREEZE THE
CURRENCY.
PAY, PAY AT A RELATIVELY LOW
LEVEL SO THAT OUR EXPORTS WILL
BE OKAY, RAISE TARIFFS AND
BLOCK THE EXPORT OF FOREIGN
CURRENCIES.
AROUND THE WORLD ALL THE
OFFICIAL ECONOMISTS, ALL THE
LEADERS OF GOVERNMENTS, THE
MIF, SHOULD JUST SAY HORROR,
HORROR, CLOSE YOUR EYES.
TURN YOUR EYES AWAY, YOU KNOW.
FOR HE ON HONEYDEW ARE FED AND
DRUNK, YOU KNOW WHATEVER.

[Audience laughs]

John continues AND
THEY'RE GONNA COLLAPSE.
IT'S GONNA BE AWFUL AND THEY'RE
THROWING THEM OFF.
FOR EXAMPLE THE MORGAN, STANLEY
INDEX FOR DEVELOPING ECONOMIES,
WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT
INDEX BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EVEN
WORTH BEING MEASURED, THEY'RE
SO IRRESPONSIBLE.
ONE YEAR LATER THEY'RE DOING SO
WELL THAT THEY'RE BEING
COMPLIMENTED EVERYWHERE.
INTERESTING, INTELLIGENT
MERCHANT BANKS ARE SAYING WELL,
AFTER ALL, IT'S NOT SUCH A BAD
IDEA TO PAY YOUR CURRENCY AND
PUT UP TARIFFS FROM TIME TO
TIME.
NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE OF THE
GLOBAL THEORY.
FOUR YEARS LATER, MATAYER IS
STANDING AT DABLOS, ATTACKING
VIOLENTLY THE GLOBAL THEORIES
AND HE'S GIVEN A STANDING
OVATION.
AND YET NOBODY SAYS, WELL,
ACTUALLY DOESN'T THIS MEAN THAT
GLOBALIZATION DOESN'T WORK?
SEE THAT'S THE DENIAL OF THE
ELITE.
IT'S THE PRETENDING THAT
SOMETHING IS HAPPENING, WHICH
ISN'T HAPPENING.
AND ABOUT THE SAME TIME THE
HEAD OF THE, THE STATE BANK,
THE FEDERAL BANK OF AUSTRALIA,
MR. MCFARLAND, A CONSERVATIVE
STARTS GIVING SPEECHES AGAINST
DEREGULATION.
IN WHICH HE SAYS IT IS
SIMPLISTIC TO INSIST ON THE
TOTALLY FREE MOVEMENT OF
CAPITAL IN ALL COUNTRIES AND IN
ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.
THE EFFICIENT, MARKET
HYPOTHESIS IS VERY WEAK.
IN ALL TESTS THAT I'M AWARE OF
THE HYPOTHESIS HAS BEEN
CONTRADICTED BY THE FACTS.
ITS INTERESTING, HE'S NOT
IGNORED BY THE OTHER BANKERS.
BUT HE'S IGNORED BY THE
NEWSPAPERS AND BY THE
TECHNOCRATS AND IN THE PUBLIC
DEBATE.
THE G20 STARTS TO TAKE FORM AND
FORCE TO TALK OFF THE RECORD
ABOUT DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
THE G7 STARTS MAKING SOUNDS
ABOUT TRYING HARDER TO ADD
ETHICS TO ECONOMICS.
1999, THE G7 CREATES A
COMMITTEE CALLED THE FINANCIAL
STABILITY FORUM.
HOW, HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW THAT?
PUT YOUR HANDS UP.
HOW MANY PEOPLE KNOW THIS?

[Some laugh]

John continues THERE'S ONE.

[Audience laughs]

John continues SOMEBODY ELSE?
CAUSE THE NATIONAL STABILITY
FORUM IS JUST AN ADVISORY GROUP
MADE UP OF KEY, FINANCIAL
OFFICIALS IN A LARGE NUMBER OF
THE DEVELOPED ECONOMIES.
AND BUT ACTUALLY WHAT THEY ARE
IS A POLICY GROUP, TELLING THE
LEADERS OF THE MAJOR ECONOMIES.
WHAT THEY OUGHT TO BE DOING TO
GET CONTROL OF A SITUATION AND
TO DEAL WITH CRISES.
IT'S THE BEGINNING OF A SERIOUS
REREGULATION OF INTERNATIONAL
MARKETS.
IN THE SAME YEAR, STIGLITZ
RESIGNS CAUSE HE FEELS IT ISN'T
GOING FAST ENOUGH AND HE WANTS
TO SPEAK OUT.
RIOTS IN SEATTLE AT THE WTO
MEETING, HORRIFYING THE
OFFICIALS WHO HAD NEVER
IMAGINED THAT IT COULD COME TO
THIS.
AT THE END OF THE YEAR, NEW
ZEALAND FLIPS TO THE OTHER
SIDE.
AND JIM WOLFENSOHN SAYS FROM
THE POSITION OF POWER HE HAS,
THOSE IN THE STREETS OF SEATTLE
WERE NOT JUST A GROUP OF
RADICALS.
IN FACT THEY SPOKE FOR SOME
VERY LEGITIMATE VIEWS.
AND THE EURO COMES INTO BEING
AS A WAY OF SHUTTING DOWN THE
MONEY MARKET SPECULATORS.
ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF IT.
2000, IN HIS LAST SPEECH BEFORE
RESIGNING, STIGLITZ STANDS UP
BEFORE THE AMERICAN ECONOMICS
SOCIETY AND SAYS CAPITAL MARKET
LIBERALIZATION HAS NOT ONLY NOT
BROUGHT PEOPLE TO PROSPERITY
THEY WERE PROMISED.
BUT IT HAS ALSO BROUGHT THESE
CRISES, WITH THE WAGES FALLING
20 OR 30 percent, AND UNEMPLOYMENT
GOING UP BY A FACTOR OF TWO,
THREE, FOUR OR TEN.
AND FROM THE ASSOCIATION OF
ECONOMICS, ECONOMISTS GETS A
STANDING OVATION.
WOLFENSOHN ADMITS PUBLICLY THAT
GLOBALIZATION IN LATIN AMERICA
HAS BEEN A FAILURE.
RAVI KANBUR, OF THE WORLD BANK,
PROPERTY EXPERT RESIGNS UNDER
POLITICAL PRESSURE.
NOT FROM WOLFENSOHN, BUT FROM
GOVERNMENTS WHO DON'T WANT A
NON-INEVITABLE DISCOURSE ON
POVERTY AND COMPETITION.
2001...
THE G8
MEETS IN GENOA.
EVERYONE EXCEPT THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES STAYS ON A
BOAT BECAUSE IT'S NOT CLEAR
THAT ORDER CAN BE KEPT IN THE
STREETS.
THE
POLICE SHOOT ONE OF THE
DEMONSTRATORS DEAD.
AT THAT MEETING THE LEADERS
BACK OFF THE IDEA OF
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AS BEING
ABSOLUTE IN SAY, WELL,
DEVELOPING COUNTRIES IN CRISES,
NEEDN'T FOLLOW THE RULES
EXACTLY.
STIGLITZ GETS THE NOBEL.
IN, ON, CANCON ASSANCE DE
COAST, THEY KNOW WHO THEY'RE
GIVING IT TO AT THAT POINT.
ARGENTINA COLLAPSES.
THAT COLLAPSE I TALKED ABOUT.
THEIR RIOT, ONLY 27 ARE KILLED.
BUT STILL IT'S NOT VERY NICE
AND IT LEADS TO A TURNING IN
DIRECTION.
AND JUST TO END THE YEAR ON
COMEDY, A YEAR, WHICH HAD
WITHIN IT A GREAT TRAGEDY,
SEPTEMBER 11TH.
A TURNING POINT, WHICH I'VE
ALREADY DESCRIBED IN TERMS OF
THE LEADERS DIS-DISCOVERING
THAT THEY ACTUALLY ARE NOT
CASTRATI.
BUT THE YEAR ENDS IN COMEDY
WITH ENRON FILING FOR
BANKRUPTCY.
LET ME FINISH BY SAYING THAT
OUT OF ALL OF WHAT I'VE
DESCRIBED TO YOU, WE'VE SEEN A
RETURN OF WHAT I CALL NEGATIVE
NATIONALISM, OF FEAR.
WE'VE SEEN EUROPE INCREASINGLY
FEARFUL OF BEING PUT TOGETHER
INTO A SINGLE, UNIT.
WE'VE SEEN EUROPE INCREASINGLY
AFRAID OF IMMIGRATION.
450,000,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE
AFRAID OF THE PRESENCE OF
17,000,000 MUSLIMS.
IT'S FEAR.
IT'S NOT REAL.
WE'VE SEEN THE ARRIVAL OF
MEMBERS, NEW MEMBER STATES IN
THE, COMMON MARKET AND THE
EUROPEAN UNION FROM THE EX-
SOVIET BLOCK.
EIGHT COUNTRIES RECENTLY WHO
JOINED FOR THE PRINCIPLE
PURPOSE OF STRENGTHENING THEIR
NATION STATES BECAUSE SINCE
1919 THEY'VE DREAMED OF HAVING
REAL STATES AND HAVING THEM
STRONGER.
AND IT HAD BEEN IMPOSSIBLE
UNTIL RECENTLY.
THEY'D ACTUALLY GONE INTO AN
ORGANIZATION, WHICH WAS
DESIGNED TO WEAKEN NATION
STATES AND THEY'VE GONE INTO
STRENGTHEN THEIR NATION STATE,
PRODUCING A REAL CONTRADICTION
AT THE CENTER OF EUROPE.
THAT'S EUROPE.
THE SECOND LET ME MAKE A
COMPARISON BETWEEN NAPOLEON,
THE END OF NAPOLEON AND THE END
OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
THE CONGRESS OF VIENNA, AFTER
NAPOLEON PRODUCED AN ALLIANCE,
AND THAT ALLIANCE LASTED UNTIL
THE CRIMEAN WAR.
WHEN THE ALLIES DIDN'T GO TO
WAR IN THE SAME GROUPINGS.
AND IT WAS AS IF SUDDENLY IT
HAD BEEN DECIDED THAT YOU
DIDN'T HAVE TO LEAVE WITH THE
GIRL YOU BROUGHT.

[Audience laughs]

John continues AND YOU
WERE FREE TO DO MORE OR LESS
WHATEVER YOU LIKED.
YOU COULD CHANGE ALLIANCES ON A
REGULAR BASIS.
AND FROM THE CRIMEAN WAR YOU
MOVE INTO THIS NATIONAL,
NATIONALIST DANCE, WHICH LEADS
EVENTUALLY TO THE FIRST WORLD
WAR.
IN 1945, RATHER LIKE THE
CONGRESS OF VIENNA WE CAME UP
WITH AN ALLIANCE SYSTEM.
WITH THE IRAQ WAR, JUST LIKE
THE CRIMEAN WAR, WHETHER YOU
WERE FOR OR AGAINST IT, I'M NOT
MAKING A COMMENT ON THAT,
PEOPLE WENT TO WAR NOT IN THE
NORMAL GROUPINGS AND IT WAS THE
EFFECTIVE END OF THE WESTERN
ALLIANCE.
NOT THAT I MEAN NATO
DISAPPEARED.
IT WAS THE EFFECTIVE REAL, END
OF THE WESTERN ALLIANCE AND
SINCE THAT MOMENT PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN CHANGING PARTNERS ON A
DAILY BASIS, LOOKING FOR
INTERESTING MULTIPLE,
RELATIONSHIPS.

[Audience laughing]

John continues STARTING
A DANCE ONE PLACE, HAVING
ANOTHER KIND OF DANCE OVER
THERE, CHANGING THEIR MIND.
LOOKING FOR POWER SYSTEMS THAT
WILL WORK FOR THEM ON A
NATIONAL BASIS AS OPPOSED TO A
REGIONAL OR GLOBAL BASIS.
A REAL RETURN OF NATIONALISM.
SO IN OTHER WORDS THE FEAR OF
DISOBEYING THE MARKET, WHICH
REIGNED FOR ABOUT 30 YEARS HAS
NOW TURNED INTO A GROWING FEAR
OF OTHER CIVILIZATIONS.
AND I SHOULD ADD TO THAT, THAT
ONE OF THE, OBVIOUSLY THE
BIGGEST GROWTHS IN NATIONALISM
HAS COME FROM OUR CLOSE FRIEND
TO THE SOUTH.
AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE ASSUMED
THAT WHEN THE MOST POWERFUL
COUNTRY IN THE WORLD BECOMES
NATIONALISTIC OTHER PEOPLE
BECOME CALMER.
BUT IN FACT, WHAT HAPPENS IS
WHEN THE BIG BOY ON THE BLOCK
ACTS IN A CERTAIN WAY, DRESSES
IN A CERTAIN WAY, THE SMALL
BOYS ON THE BLOCK SAY WELL, IF
HE'S GONNA DO THAT I'M GONNA DO
IT TOO.
SO THE BIGGEST ADVERTISEMENT FOR
THE RETURN OF NATIONALISM IN
THE WORLD TODAY HAS BEEN THE
INCREASE IN AMERICAN
NATIONALISM.
AND THEN THE FOURTH ITEM IN
THIS SORT OF RETURN OF FEAR HAS
BEEN THE STRANGE RETURN OF GOD
TO THE PUBLIC PLACE.
SO THAT IN COUNTRY AFTER
COUNTRY, AFTER COUNTRY, GOD HAS
MADE IT PUBLIC THAT HE OR SHE
IS ON THEIR SIDE.

[Audience laughs]

John continues THIS
HADN'T HAPPENED FOR SOME TIME.

[Audience laughs]

John continues AND WE'RE
SUDDENLY SEEING A VERY, BIZARRE
ALLIANCE BETWEEN THE GLOBALISTS
AND THE GODISTS, THE PEOPLE WHO
BELIEVE THAT GOD IS ON THEIR
SIDE.
HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY BE
TOGETHER?
THEIR CONTENT IS VIRTUALLY
OPPOSITE.
ONE BELIEVES THERE ARE NO RULES
AND ONE, THE OTHER BELIEVES
THERE ARE NOTHING BUT RULES,
ETHICAL, MORAL, WHATEVER YOU
LIKE.
BUT OF COURSE WHAT THEY HAVE IN
COMMON IS THEY BOTH BELIEVE IN
GODS, INEVITABILITIES AND
ABSOLUTE TRUTHS.
SO AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TALK
TOO LONG ABOUT IT, THEY'RE
ACTUALLY MADE FOR EACH OTHER.

[Audience laughing]

John continues IN THE
SHORT TERM, AND THE SHORT TERM
OF COURSE IS WHILE
GLOBALIZATION GOES DOWN AND GOD
EITHER COMES UP OR WE'RE NOT
QUITE SURE WHERE IT'S GOING.
SO WE'RE
IN A VACUUM.
IT'S A PERIOD OF DISORDER.
THE ECONOMISTS ARE WILDLY
DIVIDED NOW, WHICH THEY
WEREN'T.
IT'S ONE OF THE SIGNS OF HEALTH
IN A PERIOD...
EVEN JOHN
WILLIAMS THE AUTHOR OF "THE
WASHINGTON CONSENSUS," WHICH
WAS THE BIBLE OF THE GLOBALIST
MOVEMENT HIMSELF ON AN ALMOST
MONTHLY BASIS DENIES THAT HE
MEANT WHAT HE SAID.

[Audience laughing]

John continues THE KEY
THING IS AS I SAID AT THE
BEGINNING WE HAVE TO BE SO
CAREFUL THAT WE'RE CONSCIOUS
ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING,
OTHERWISE WE WILL BE THE
VICTIMS OF A CHANGE WHICH WE
HAVE NOT ADMITTED TO.
OUR PROBLEM IS THAT OUR LEAD
STRUCTURES LEAVE US WITH A
LEADERSHIP, POLITICAL,
ADMINISTRATIVE, ACADEMIC,
LOCAL, NATIONAL, INTERNATIONAL,
WHICH IS THE PRODUCT OF THE
GLOBALIST PERIOD.
YOU KNOW IF, IF YOU'RE AT A
TRANSNATIONAL CORPORATION, OR
YOU'RE IN A BUREAUCRACY, OR
YOU'RE IN POLITICS, IT'S A
LITTLE DIFFERENT IN
UNIVERSITIES.
REALLY YOU ONLY HAVE POWER FOR
ABOUT FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS.
SO WE ACTUALLY NOW HAVE A
LEADERSHIP, WHICH WAS PUT IN
PLACE BY A GENERATION, WHICH
WAS PUT IN PLACE BY A
GENERATION AND PERHAPS THEY
INDEED BY A GENERATION WHO
BOUGHT INTO THE INEVITABILITY
OF THE GLOBALIST ARGUMENT.
SO WE NOW HAVE A THIRD OR
FOURTH GENERATION WHO HAVE
NEVER LIVED IN POWER WITH THE
IDEA THAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY
MAKE CHOICES, THINK
DIFFERENTLY, NOT GO ALONG WITH
THE GLOBALIST THEORIES.
SO THEY'RE INTELLECTUALLY, AND
IN PARTICULAR IN PUBLIC VERY
UNACCUSTOMED IF NOT UNSUITED TO
DEALING WITH WHAT'S ACTUALLY
HAPPENING.
SO THEY HAVE TO SAY BY THE
GRACE OF GOD, THANKS TO REASON,
BECAUSE OF GLOBALIZATION.
SO THEY HAVE TO SAY BECAUSE OF
GLOBALIZATION THIS, BECAUSE OF
GLOBALIZATION THAT.
EVEN IF THEY'RE DOING THE EXACT
OPPOSITE, AND THIS IS, CRIPPLES
OUR ELITE, BECAUSE THEY FEEL
THAT THEY'RE UNABLE TO BE
HONEST WITH THE PUBLIC ABOUT
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WORLD
WE'RE LIVING IN.
THEY'RE IN DENIAL.
THEY TREAT EVERY INCONVENIENT
EVENT AS IF IT WERE AN
EXCEPTION.
THEY HAVE AN OVER, RELIANCE ON
CONSULTANTS AND LOBBYISTS, WHO
DON'T THINK, WHO REACT FOR A
PERCENTAGE.
AND I MEAN TO UNDERSTAND HOW
IMPORTANT THAT IS IF YOU, I
MEAN I JUST, THIS IS THE LAST
STATISTIC.
IN THE YEAR 2003, LOBBYISTS
SPENT 2.4 BILLION DOLLARS IN
WASHINGTON ON CONGRESS AND THE
EXECUTIVE.
I MEAN THIS IS THE PROFOUND,
FORM OF CORRUPTION BUILT INTO
THE CORE OF WESTERN
CIVILIZATION, MAKING IT VERY,
VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO THINK
PUBLICLY ABOUT WHAT'S ACTUALLY
HAPPENING.
TO THINK PUBLICLY ABOUT WHAT'S,
ABOUT ETHICAL STANDARDS ARE
WITHIN NATION STATES BUT ALSO
BETWEEN NATION STATES.
POSITIVE NATIONALISM HAS
FLOWERED IN THE SAME PERIOD AND
THAT'S THE, THE GOOD STORY.
POSITIVE NATIONALISM IS ABOUT
CITIZENS BEING FOCUSED ON THE
PUBLIC GOOD.
IT'S WHERE I BEGAN WITH
BURLINGTON, AND WITH THOSE
OTHER EXAMPLES.
IT IS NOT BASED ON FEAR.
IT'S BASED ON CONFIDENCE IN
ONESELF AND IN OTHER CITIZENS.
IT'S BASED ON THE ABILITY TO
IMAGINE THE OTHER.
AND WHAT DOES IT NEED TO DO?
WELL, IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, IT
NEEDS TO RADICALLY INCREASE THE
NUMBER OF BINDING TREATIES AT
THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL THAT
WILL DEAL WITH OLIGOPOLIES AND
MONOPOLIES.
THAT WILL DEAL WITH
COMPETITION.
THAT WILL DEAL WITH TAXATION
LEVELS.
THAT WILL DEAL WITH WORK
CONDITIONS AROUND THE WORLD.
THAT WILL DEAL WITH LOBBYISTS
AND CONSULTANTS, WHICH IS
REALLY JUST ANOTHER WAY OF
SAYING LOBBYISTS.
AND LET ME JUST FINISH ON
SOMETHING, WHICH I SAID BEFORE,
BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO SAY
THINGS ON A REGULAR BASIS.
THE, THE FAILURE OF THE ELITE
STRUCTURE IN THE 1970S LED TO
GLOBALIZATION ON THE ONE HAND
AND A SERIES, THREE OR FOUR
GENERATIONS OF YOUNG PEOPLE
GOING OUTSIDE OF THE
MAINSTREAM, AND IN THE 1990S IT
BECAME CLEAR GOING IN A
PARALLEL MOVEMENT WHICH WAS
BASICALLY THE END SHOW
MOVEMENT.
THIS WAS A VERY INTERESTING
ENGAGEMENT, NEW STYLE
ENGAGEMENT BY YOUNG PEOPLE.
THERE ARE PROBABLY A HIGHER
PERCENTAGE OF YOUNG PEOPLE,
PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 40 IN
PUBLIC LIFE THEN EVER IN
HISTORY.
BUT THEY'RE NOT ENGAGED IN
DEMOCRATIC LIFE.
THEY'RE ENGAGED NOT IN SEEKING
POWER TO CHANGE THINGS.
THEY'RE ENGAGED IN SEEKING
INFLUENCE TO CHANGE THINGS,
WHICH IS NOT THE SAME THING.
INFLUENCE IS NOT DEMOCRACY.
INFLUENCE IS INFLUENCE.
AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A PROBLEM.
AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE
THE CRITICAL MASS OF PEOPLE
UNDER THE AGE OF 40 ACTIVELY
WORKING OUTSIDE OF THE
DEMOCRATIC STRUCTURE.
THIS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT
FOR US TO MAKE THE DEMOCRATIC
STRUCTURE WORK.
AND I WOULD SIMPLY REPEAT AS
I'VE SAID BEFORE THAT IT IS
VERY IMPORTANT NOT TO CLOSE
DOWN THE NGOS.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR A
CRITICAL MASS OF PEOPLE IN THE
NGOS TO RUIN THEIR LIVES BY
GOING INTO DEMOCRATIC POLITICS
IN ORDER TO BE HUMILIATED ON A
REGULAR BASIS.

[Audience laughing]

John continues AND IF
THEY DON'T DO THAT WE WILL HAVE
A MAJOR CRISIS WITHIN TEN YEARS
OR FIFTEEN YEARS, BECAUSE WE
CANNOT SUSTAIN OUR DEMOCRACIES
IF EACH GENERATION, A SERIES OF
GENERATIONS REFUSE TO GO IN.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE
RETURN OF THE IDEA OF CHOICE,
AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THE
IMPORTANCE OF THROUGH
CONSCIOUSNESS AND THROUGH
CHOICE, BEING EXTREMELY CAREFUL
AND FOCUSED AND TAKING A BROAD
VIEW ABOUT HOW YOU CONSTRUCT
AND SHAPE LOCAL SOCIETIES,
NATIONAL SOCIETIES,
INTERNATIONAL SOCIETIES.
THIS IS NOT A NEW IDEOLOGY.
IT'S A METHOD OF UNCERTAINTY.
BUT IT'S THE SORT OF METHOD,
WHICH COULD ALLOW US TO GET OUT
OF THE VACUUM IN A SHAPE, WHICH
WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR A
DEMOCRACY LIKE OURS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[Audience applauding]

John says THANK YOU.

[Audience applauding]

Watch: John Ralston Saul talks about globalization.