Transcript: Dan Pink on his book A Whole New Mind | Jan 07, 2006

Edward stands at a podium with a bookcase behind him.
He is in his fifties and is balding with gray hair with a clean-shaven face. He
wears glasses, a grey jacket and grey shirt.

Edward says WHEN I WAS
ASKED TO DO THIS, I WAS REALLY
ASKED TO DO A READING AND I
THOUGHT, WELL, A READING-
THAT MEANS READING FROM MY BOOK.

The book cover appears twice with black lettering and red and yellow words with
a man and a woman making love titled, "Written in the flesh a history of desire."

Edward says SO I WENT THROUGH MY BOOK AND I
PICKED OUT JUST-
ALL OF THE WONDERFULLY,
RIVETING PARTS, AND I MARKED
THEM ALL, AND THEN AROUND ABOUT
2:00 THIS AFTERNOON, SOMEBODY
SAID TO ME,
"OH, DON'T READ FROM YOUR BOOK.
THAT'S SO BORING."
[Laughter]

Edward says WHY DON'T YOU
JUST TALK AND MAYBE SHOW SOME
SLIDES?
SO THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.
I'M JUST GOING TO TALK AND.
SHOW SOME SLIDES...
LET'S START WITH AN ESTABLISHING
SLIDE.

A slide sows a graph under the title "Figure 5. Percentage of women ever having
had intercourse, by age." It reads from 0-100 on the perpendicular and 15-21 on
the parallel and several lines that are dotted, dashed or straight that
represent countries like the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, and France.

Edward says THIS; YOU'LL THINK IT WAS BENIGN
BRINGING THIS TO A LECTURE IN
THE HISTORY OF SEX.
THIS IS THE PERCENTAGE OF WOMEN
EVER HAVING HAD INTERCOURSE BY
AGE.
OKAY?
NOW HERE IS SWEDEN-
1981.
WHOO, LOOK AT THAT!
BY AGE 18, 80 PERCENT OF ALL
SWEDISH WOMEN, IN 1981, HAD HAD
INTERCOURSE.
HERE IS CANADA.
[Laughter]

Edward says 1976.
BY AGE 18, 28 PERCENT, AS
OPPOSED TO 80 PERCENT OF
CANADIAN WOMEN HAD HAD
INTERCOURSE.
SINCE THEN, WE'VE BEEN PLAYING
CATCH-UP BALL.
[Laughter]

Edward says NOW THAT'S
WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT
TONIGHT.
THE REAL SUBJECT IS THE
TRANSFORMATION OF SEXUAL
ACTIVITY THAT'S REALLY TAKING
PLACE IN NORTH AMERICAN SOCIETY
OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.
BUT SINCE I'M A HISTORIAN, I'D
LIKE TO PUT THESE EVENTS IN SOME
KIND OF CONTEXT, AND SO WE'RE
GONNA GO FURTHER BACK IN TIME
THAN JUST 30 YEARS.
AND THE CORE CONCEPT HERE IS
DESIRE.

The caption reads "Edward Shorter. Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto.
‘Written in the Flesh: A History of Desire."

Edward says NOW DESIRE IS
A VERY BIOLOGICAL KIND OF TERM.
IT IMPLIES THAT THE BRAIN IS AT
WORK, AND THIS IS WHY ALL THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THE
SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION OF
SEXUALITY-
HOW OUR SEXUALITY IS REALLY A
PRODUCT OF THE WORLD AROUND US,
HOW IT MOULDS AND MANIPULATES
US-
I DON'T REALLY LIKE THE WORD
'DESIRE' AT ALL.
BECAUSE IT
IMPLIES A BIOLOGICAL DRIVE
BEHIND WHAT THEY BELIEVE TO BE
SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED.
BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S REALLY
VERY LITTLE THAT IS SOCIALLY
CONSTRUCTED ABOUT THIS STORY.
A LITTLE BIT LATER ON, WE ARE
GONNA COME TO SOME ELEMENTS THAT
CLEARLY HAVE TO DO WITH SOCIETY
BUT THE UNDERLYING CONCEPT IS
THAT DESIRE IS SOMETHING THAT IS
DRIVEN BY THE BODY, IT'S DRIVEN
BY THE BRAIN, AND THE MIND
RESPONDS TO THE BRAIN WHEN THE
MIND IS ABLE TO, WHEN THE SOCIAL
CIRCUMSTANCES PERMIT IT.
AND SO HOW HAS DESIRE CHANGED
ACROSS THE AGES?
NOW THIS REALLY A LONG, LONG
STORY.
WHENEVER YOU TALK ABOUT ACROSS
THE AGES, YOU REALLY ARE
INVITING PEOPLE TO GO BACK TO
THE ANCIENT GREEKS AND ROMANS,
AND PROPERLY SO, THAT'S WHERE WE
SHOULD BEGIN-
AND WHEN WE GO BACK TO THE
ANCIENT GREEKS AND ROMANS, TO
THE UPPER CLASSES, WE FIND THAT
THEIR SEXUALITY, AT LEAST, IS
PRETTY MUCH LIKE OUR OWN.
AND THAT'S VERY INTERESTING
BECAUSE IT IMPLIES THAT OUR OWN
SEXUALITY IS NOT JUST A PRODUCT
OF OUR OWN TIME, BUT IS THE
RESULT OF SOME DEEPER UNDERLYING
FORCES THAT WERE SOMEHOW DRIVEN
UNDERGROUND FOR MANY, MANY
YEARS.
I KNOW I DON'T HAVE A SLIDE TO
ILLUSTRATE THE ANCIENT GREEKS
AND ROMANS-
AND I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT
THAT VERY MUCH EITHER-
BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE THE
POINT THAT, FOR THE BIOLOGISTS
OF SEX, THE STORY OF THE
ANCIENTS IS REALLY VERY
ENCOURAGING BECAUSE, CLEARLY,
WE'RE DEALING WITH SOMETHING
THAT IS NOT SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED
IF THESE TWO VASTLY DISSIMILAR
SOCIETIES SEPARATED BY ENORMOUS
GAPS OF TIME HAVE, IN FACT,
ROUGHLY THE SAME KIND OF
SEXUALITY WITH A COUPLE OF
DIFFERENCES.

A slate shows a stain glass window in grey with the Virgin Mary wearing a white
gown and a halo.

Edward says NOW OUR STORY TONIGHT IS GOING
TO BEGIN IN CHRISTIAN EUROPE.
AND CHRISTIAN EUROPE IS NOTABLE
FOR HAVING DRIVEN DESIRE,
REALLY, UNDERGROUND.
WHEN I SAY CHRISTIAN EUROPE,
THAT SORT OF IMPLIES THAT I'M
MAKING A CRITICISM OF THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH.
OF COURSE, THE PROTESTANT
REFORMATION OF THE 16TH CENTURY,
WHICH PRODUCED THE LUTHERAN AND
ANGLICAN CHURCHES, WAS REALLY
JUST AS REPRESSIVE OF SEXUALITY.
THE PROTESTANT PASTORS DON'T
REALLY DIFFER AT ALL FROM THE
CATHOLIC PRIESTS AND THEIR
CONDEMNATION OF THE CARNAL
ASPECTS OF SEXUALITY.
FOR THE BIG CHRISTIAN
DENOMINATIONS, UH-
SEXUALITY WAS REALLY SEEN AS A
MEANS OF PROCREATION, NOT
RECREATION-
TO USE THAT HACKNEYED FORMULA-
AND ANY NOTION OF SENSUALITY IN
SEX WAS REALLY, IT WAS ALMOST
SINFUL.
AND, IN FACT, IN SOME CIRCLES
TODAY, IT CONTINUES TO BE SEEN
AS SINFUL.
IN THE LONG NIGHT OF CHRISTIAN
EUROPE, THE FACE AND THE
GENITALS WERE THE MAIN-
INSTRUMENTS OF SEXUAL
EXPRESSION.
PEOPLE RESPONDED TO MALE OR
FEMALE BEAUTY,
THE GENITALS, OF COURSE, PERMIT
A MECHANICAL KIND OF COUPLING.
WHEN ONE HAS SEX, THERE ARE
VARIOUS, SORT OF, MODES.
ONE IS A HIGHLY-MECHANICAL MODE,
IN WHICH WHAT YOU ACHIEVE IS
REPRODUCTION, ALTHOUGH ORGASMS
ARE NEVER UNPLEASANT
EXPERIENCES, I DON'T WANT TO
SUGGEST THAT-
BUT SEX CAN ALSO BE A SENSUOUS
EXPERIENCE.
AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT I WANT TO
TALK ABOUT TONIGHT-
HOW, AFTER ABOUT THE END OF THE
19TH CENTURY, WE START TO
PRESIDE OVER THE SENSUALIZATION
OF SEXUALITY.
AND THE TERM THAT I USE FOR THIS
IS 'TOTAL BODY SEX.'
IF SEX BECOMES A SENSUOUS
EXPERIENCE, THE ENTIRE BODY IS
INVOLVED IN IT, NOT JUST THE
FACE AND GENITALS.
ALL THE ORGANS-
OH, SORRY, NOT ALL THE ORGANS,
ALL THE ORIFICES-
I BEG YOUR PARDON-
THE LIVER, ACTUALLY, IS NOT-
[Laughter]

Edward says
PARTICIPATING.
ALL THE ORIFICES, AND EVEN THE
VERY ARCHITECTURE OF THE BODY-
THE MUSCULATURE OF THE, UH-
LIMBS HAS A SEXUAL DIMENSION OF
ITS OWN.
NOW I THINK IT'S USEFUL TO BREAK
A DISCUSSION LIKE THIS DOWN BY
THE 3 MAJOR SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS.
HETEROSEXUALITY, MALE
HOMOSEXUALITY OR GAY MALES, AND
FEMALE LESBIANS.
AND THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT
THE STORY IS THAT, EVEN THOUGH
THEY ALL PARTICIPATE IN HIGHLY
DIFFERENT BASELINES, HIGHLY
DIFFERENT POINTS OF DEPARTURE,
THEY END UP CONVERGING AT
ROUGHLY THE SAME PACE.
AND SO,
AGAIN, THIS SUGGESTS THAT THE
PARTICULAR SEXUAL ORIENTATION
ISN'T THAT GREAT, THAT WHAT IS
DRIVING EACH OF THE SEXUAL
ORIENTATIONS FORWARD IS SOME
KIND OF COMMON UNDERLYING
BIOLOGY BECAUSE, TODAY, THERE
ARE REALLY NO DIFFERENCES IN SEX
PRACTICES AMONG LESBIANS, GAY
MALES, AND STRAIGHTS.
AND THAT
CERTAINLY WASN'T TRUE AT THE
POINT OF DEPARTURE.
SO, FOR GAY MALES, THE POINT OF
DEPARTURE BUGGERY-
ANAL INTERCOURSE-
THAT WAS THE PREDOMINANT MALE-
SORRY, PREDOMINANT MODE OF GAY
MALE SEXUAL EXPRESSION BEFORE
THE BEGINNING OF THE FIRST WORLD
WAR, AND RESULTS IN THIS
HISTORIC ASSOCIATION BETWEEN
HOMOSEXUALS AND BUGGERY BECAUSE
THAT WAS BASICALLY WHAT THEY
DID.
JUST AS THE REPERTOIRE OF THE
STRAIGHTS WAS LIMITED, MORE OR
LESS, TO THE MISSIONARY
POSITION, THE REPERTOIRE OF GAY
MALES WAS LIMITED TO BUGGERY.

The slate changes to a woodcut of a devil like creature with wings and a tail
and one man pushing something up the man’s anus while the public behind watches
in disdain.

Edward says AND THIS WOODCUT FROM THE 15TH
CENTURY SHOWS THE ABHORRENCE
THAT WAS ATTACHED TO THE ANUS-
'THE INSANITY OF WHICH IS THE
OBSCENE KISS ON THE ANUS OF THE
DEVIL SEALS THE PACT BETWEEN
SATAN AND A WITCH.'
DEEPLY, DEEPLY TABOOED, IN OTHER
WORDS, BUT, MAINLY, THAT WAS
WHAT HOMOSEXUALITY WAS ABOUT.
WELL, NOW, LESBIANISM IS AN
INTERESTING SUBJECT SIMPLY
BECAUSE LESBIANS HAVE ALWAYS
BEEN HISTORICALLY SO DISCREET
ABOUT WHAT THEY DO.
THIS IS A SUBJECT THAT IS VERY
DIFFICULT TO GET INFORMATION ON.
SO IT'S DIFFICULT TO FIND OUT
BUT THE FOUNDING DOCTOR-
AND I'M JUST GOING TO MENTION
THIS AS AN ASIDE.
I'M NOT GOING TO READ TO YOU
FROM IT EVEN THOUGH IT IS A
RIVETING DOCUMENT, IS A DIARY
KEPT BY AN ENGLISH LESBIAN WOMAN
IN THE 1820s.
HER NAME WAS ANNE LISTER AND SHE
MAKES IT CLEAR THAT WHAT SHE AND
HER PARTNERS BASICALLY DO IS
WHAT IS KNOWN, TECHNICALLY, AS
INTERCRURAL SEX-
YOU’RE KNEE OR YOUR THIGH
BASICALLY BETWEEN YOUR PARTNER'S
LEGS.
THIS IS REALLY ONE OF THE ONLY
PIECES OF INFORMATION WE HAVE
ABOUT-
[Laughter]

Edward says BUT THEN,
IT'S A RELATIVELY-
IT'S A RELATIVELY LIMITED
PRACTICE GIVEN THE SCOPE OF THE
BODY, GIVEN THE THEORETICAL
SCOPE OF EVERYTHING THAT ONE CAN
DO, JUST AS BUGGERY IS LIMITED
FOR GAY MALES AND THE MISSIONARY
POSITION IS LIMITED FOR
HETEROSEXUALS, INTERCRURAL SEX
IS LIMITED FOR LESBIANS.
AND SO WE HAVE, FOR ALL 3 OF THE
ORIENTATIONS, THE SAME POINT OF
DEPARTURE.
SO, AS I SAID, FOR ABOUT A
THOUSAND YEARS OF CHRISTIAN
EUROPE, THE LID IS KEPT ON ALL
OF THIS.
NONE OF THIS MERGES TO THE
SURFACE-
WHEN I SAY 'THIS,' I'M TALKING
ABOUT SOME OF THE VARIETY THAT
WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT IN A
MINUTE-
AND SO YOU SAY, 'WELL, YOU KNOW,
IT'S THE CHURCH, ISN'T IT?'
THE CHURCH THAT, SORT OF, DRIVES
EVERYTHING UNDERGROUND.
WELL, NOT EXACTLY.
ALTHOUGH THE CHURCH PLAYS A
ROLE.
ONE HAS TO THINK ABOUT
CONDITIONS OF LIFE THEMSELVES
THAT PREVAILED BETWEEN THE HIGH
AGES AND THE BEGINNING OF THE
19TH CENTURY.
THE INCREDIBLE FILTH IN WHICH
PEOPLE LIVED, FOR EXAMPLE, MADE
SKIN INFECTIONS COMMON.

The slate changes to a black and white picture of a woman’s body with scabies.

Edward says HERE, WE'RE LOOKING AT SCABIES.
SCABIES IS AN INFESTATION OF
MITES THAT GET UNDER YOUR SKIN,
THAT RESULT IN CONSTANT ITCHING.
IT'S VERY DISTRACTING.
YOU CANNOT IMAGINE PEOPLE WHO
ARE RIVEN WITH SCABIES HAVING
TOTAL BODY SEX.
[Some laughter]

The slate changes to a black and white sketch of a skeleton dressed as a knight
and a naked woman on a bed with her right arm raised in proclamation.

Edward says OKAY?
SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF, SORT
OF, DISEASE.
ANOTHER KIND OF ANTI-HEDONIC
FACTOR IS THE CONSTANT PRESENCE
OF DEATH IN PEOPLE'S LIVES, AND
THE DWELLING BY THE AUTHORITIES
AND BY THE CHURCH ON
MEMENTO MORI,
REMEMBER THAT YOU
MUST DIE.
THIS IS A WOODCUT CALLED
LUST UND TOT,
DESIRE AND DEATH.
AND WE SEE DEATH LEADING THE
YOUNG LADY, WHO HAS PARTICIPATED
TO GLADLY IN LUST, FROM THE
SCENE.
SO THE
SUNDAY MORNING SERMONS IN ALL
THE CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS WERE
VERY, VERY SIMILAR ABOUT HOW
NASTY THINGS ARE IN THIS VEIL OF
TEARS AND HOW QUICKLY WE MUST
SHUFFLE OFF IT.
AND, AS I
SAID, MUCH HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT
THE ANTI-EROTIC INFLUENCE OF THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH, BUT THE
LUTHERAN CHURCH WAS JUST AS BAD.
IN THE BOOK, I HAVE SOME
WONDERFUL QUOTES THAT I'M NOT
GOING TO SHARE WITH YOU.
[Laughter]

The slate changes to a black and white painting of women in the hearth hold
wearing gowns and sitting next to the firewood stove and on the other side of
the room a shelf of dishes.

Edward says AND THEN,
FINALLY, THERE WAS THE
REPRESSIVENESS OF THE COMMUNITY
ITSELF-
THE REPRESSIVENESS OF THE FAMILY
COMMUNITY, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE,
THE LACK OF PRIVACY.
THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN
ADORING PAINTING CALLED
LUMINAGE SAINT-PETER.
THE RUSTIC HOUSEHOLD-
AND THEY'RE ALL THERE TOGETHER
IN THE SAME ROOM BECAUSE THEY
ONLY HAD ONE ROOM, AND THEY'LL
BRING OUT THE STRAW PALLIASSES
AFTER A WHILE AND THEY'LL ALL
SLEEP ON THEM AROUND THE BIG
OVEN, AROUND THE BIG FIRE, WHERE
THERE'LL BE A BIG BED, AND ALL
THE 9 MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY WILL
SLEEP IN THAT BED-
AND SO TOTAL BODY SEX UNDER
THESE CIRCUMSTANCES?
GIVE ME A BREAK!
[Laughter]

Edward says I COULDN'T
RESIST SHOWING YOU THIS.
THIS IS A WEDDING NIGHTDRESS
FROM A MUSEUM IN ALSACE-
[Laughter]

The slate changes to a black and white photo of a dress with a slit cut in the
bottom center.

Edward says WITH A SLIT
CUT IN IT, AND SOMEBODY HAS
LOVINGLY EMBROIDERED ON IT,
DIEU LE VEUT.
I'M DOING THIS NOT BECAUSE I
WANT TO, BUT BECAUSE GOD WILLS
IT.
AND THEN EVERYTHING CHANGES,
OKAY?
BEGINNING OF THE LAST QUARTER OF
THE 19TH CENTURY, THERE'S A
GREAT BREAKOUT FROM THE TRAMMELS
OF TRADITIONAL SEXUALITY IN
TRADITIONAL EUROPE.
AND THE DRIVING FORCES ARE
CLEAR-
URBANIZATION THAT GIVES PEOPLE
PRIVATE SPACE.
IN THE 18TH, AROUND THE SMALL OF
PARIS, YOU AND YOUR PARTNER, AND
YOUR NOISES ARE NOW SAFE BEHIND
TWO HEAVY MAHOGANY DOORS, AS
OPPOSED TO LIVING IN ROOMS ABOVE
THE BUTCHER'S SHOP THAT FACE THE
VILLAGE SQUARE.
UH, THERE'S A BIG INCREASE IN
THE STANDARD OF LIVING THAT
TAKES PLACE.
PEOPLE FINALLY GET ENOUGH
CALORIES ON BOARD.
THEY'RE ABLE TO START ENJOYING
THEIR BODIES BECAUSE THEY AREN'T
CONSTANTLY HOBBLED WITH HUNGER.
THERE'S A GERMAN EXPRESSION
ABOUT, OR PROVERB ABOUT HOW, IN
THE PEASANT VILLAGE, YOU NEVER,
EVER GET
SATT.
YOU NEVER GET FILLED.
YOUR TUMMY'S NEVER FULL.
PEOPLE WHOSE TUMMIES ARE NEVER
FULL ARE NOT REALLY SO
INTERESTED IN THE SENSUALITY OF
SEX.
HYGIENE IMPROVES.
MARCUSSEN'S OINTMENT IS
DEVELOPED FOR SCABIES, 1910.
AND SO THE WHOLE PLATEAU
CHANGES.
IN SHORT, THE LID IS TAKEN OFF
THE POT AND WE BEGIN TO SEE THE
BEGINNING OF A SURGE TOWARDS
TOTAL BODY SEX.
OKAY, LET'S WATCH IT IN ACTION.
NOW THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS IN
WHICH THE ENTIRE BODY
PARTICIPATES IN SEX, OKAY, GOING
BEYOND THE MISSIONARY POSITION
AND SO FORTH.
FIRST OF ALL, KISSING.
TONGUE-PLAYING KISSING.
THE EXCHANGE OF SALIVA.
IT'S VERY INTERESTING TO READ,
IN THESE RATHER PRUDISH
HISTORIES OF KISSING THAT EXIST,
THAT THE PERFECT KISS BEFORE OR
ABOUT 1900 WAS THOUGHT TO BE THE
SMACK KISS.
THE KISS THAT MAKES A LOT OF
NOISE.
THE POP KISS.
THIS WAS SEEN, SOMEHOW, AS THE
SUMMIT.
AND IN THE VILLAGE PROVERBS,
KISSES THAT INVOLVED THE
EXCHANGE OF SALIVA WERE
PARTICULARLY FROWNED UPON.

The slate changes to a man and a woman in black and white giving each other a
kiss.

Edward says HEY, THIS IS THE FIRST KISS IN
HOLLYWOOD, THE FIRST KISS EVER
FILMED ON THE SILVER SCREEN.
AND IT LOOKS A BIT UNGAINLY.
BUT ONE HAS THE FEELING THAT
SOME TONGUE ACTION MAY NOT BE
TOO FAR BEHIND.
SECONDLY, THERE ARE THE NIPPLES.
THE CHEST.
NOW WOMEN HAVE ALWAYS DERIVED
SEXUAL PLEASURE FROM THEIR
NIPPLES BECAUSE OF
BREASTFEEDING, WHICH CAN BE
EROTICALLY PLEASANT, AS WELL AS
SATISFYING THAT YOU ARE
NURTURING A TINY BABY.
BY CONTRAST, MALE NIPPLES HAVE
HISTORICALLY BEEN SILENT.
THERE ARE LITERALLY NO
REFERENCES TO MEN ENJOYING
NIPPLE PLAY BEFORE ABOUT 1900.
CASANOVA, OF COURSE, IS ONE OF
THE GREAT REICHS.
AND CASANOVA'S MEMOIRS-
HE TALKS ABOUT HIS INVOLVEMENT
WITH A YOUNG, VERY LIBERTINE NUN
NAMED M.
AND HE AND M WERE REALLY
GOING AT IT, AND THEY'RE
STANDING UP AND HE SAYS,
"OH, SHE PUT HER HANDS ALL OVER
MY BODY, AND THEN SHE PUT HER
HANDS UP MY CHEST.
"OH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE COULD
HAVE FOUND THERE TO INTEREST
HER,"
SAYS CASANOVA.
CASANOVA, OBVIOUSLY, IS NOT
SENSITIVE TO HIS NIPPLES.
[Laughter]

Edward says AND, FINALLY,
THERE'S THE ISSUE OF ANAL SEX
WHICH, TODAY, REMAINS SOMEWHAT
TABOOED.
THIS MORNING I DID AN INTERVIEW,
A REMOTE INTERVIEW, WITH A
TELEVISION STATION AND THE
INTERVIEWER SAID, "WELL, WE'VE
BEEN HAVING A DISCUSSION OF YOUR
BOOK IN THE NEWSROOM HERE, AND
THERE'D BEEN SOME-
SOME PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, WE-
SOME PEOPLE AREN'T IN AGREEMENT
ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT ANAL
SEX."
AND I SAID, "WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M
NOT OBLIGATING ANY OF THEM TO DO
IT."
AND HE SAID, "NO, NO!"
HE SAID, "THAT'S NOT THE POINT."
[Laughter]

Edward says HE SAID, "THE
POINT IS THAT WE DON'T-
WE THINK IT SHOULDN'T BE
MENTIONED ON AIR."
SO, OF COURSE, I DIDN'T MENTION
IT.UH, I-
WAS A GOOD GUEST.
BUT THAT DOES ILLUSTRATE THE
POINT THAT THE MUCH-VILIFIED
ANUS, ALTHOUGH STILL VILIFIED
TO SOME EXTENT, DOES START TO
COME ALIVE AS A SEXUAL ORGAN AT
THE SAME TIME AS THESE OTHER
EVENTS.
AND IT'S AT THE SAME TIME THAT
DEEP KISSING BEGINS, THAT NIPPLE
PLAY BEGINS, THAT ORAL SEX
BEGINS.

The slate changes to block letters in several colours "The Ultimate Guide to
Anal Sex for Women."

Edward says WHAT I FIND
INTRIGUING IN THIS WHOLE SUBJECT
IS THAT THINGS CHANGE FOR GAYS
AND LESBIANS EXACTLY AS THEY DO
FOR STRAIGHTS.
AND AT THE SAME TIME.
IN OTHER WORDS, FOR ALL 3
ORIENTATIONS, THIS SHIFT IN THE
DIRECTION OF THE INVOLVEMENT OF
THE TOTAL BODY IN SEX BEGINS.
I SAID AT THE BEGINNING I WAS
GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
CULTURE.

The slate changes to a black and white photo of two women wearing white frocks,
one woman is very effeminate ad the other is very butch.

Edward says IT'S OBVIOUS THAT CULTURE DOES
ENTER THE STORY AT SOME LEVEL.
FOR GAY MALES, FOR EXAMPLE, THE
NANCE, THE SISSY MALE, WAS A
VERY COMMON FIGURE IN THE FIRST
HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY.
IT NO LONGER IS.
SO THERE'S SOMETHING CULTURAL
GOING ON THERE.
IN LESBIAN COUPLES, IT WAS ONCE
VERY COMMON BEFORE OR ABOUT 1960
TO FIND THE PAIRING BETWEEN A
VERY EFFEMINATE FEMME AND A VERY
MASCULINE-LOOKING BUTCH.
THIS-
BOTH THESE PRESENTATIONS, THE
SORT OF GAY NANCE AND THE
LESBIAN FEMME-BUTCH PAIRING
STILL PERSIST TODAY BUT THEY'VE
BECOME IN, MAINLINE LESBIANISM
AND HOMOSEXUALITY, BECOME
UNPOPULAR.
AND SEEING BOTH PARTNERS AS
EQUAL NOW IS REALLY DE RIGUEUR,
REGARDLESS WHAT PEOPLE REALLY
FEEL INSIDE.
SO, FOR ALL 3 SEXUAL
ORIENTATIONS, WHAT WE SEE, I
THINK, IS A BIOLOGICALLY-DRIVEN
PUSH IN THE DIRECTION OF TOTAL
BODY SEX THAT SETS IN, IN THE
LAST THIRD OF THE 19TH CENTURY,
AND CONTINUES IN OUR OWN TIME.
AND YOU SAY, "WELL, WHY DO YOU
INSIST OF BIOLOGY?
BECAUSE THE PUSH IS STEADY.
THROUGH ALL THE VICISSITUDES OF
WAR AND PEACE, POVERTY AND
WEALTH, EACH YEAR, WE SEE MORE
THAN THE PREVIOUS YEAR THE
FURTHER SURGE TOWARDS TOTAL BODY
SEX.
AND WHEN YOU HAVE A TREND THAT
IS SO IRREVERSIBLE, UNILINEAR
AND UNOPPOSABLE, YOU JUST HAVE
THE FEELING THAT SOMETHING
BIOLOGICAL MUST BE INVOLVED
HERE.
NOW I WANT TO END BY DISCUSSING
A DEVELOPMENT THAT IS A BIT
MARGINAL, AND THAT INDEED COULD
BE ADMITTED FROM A GENERAL
HISTORY OF SEXUALITY, BUT THAT I
THINK IS RELEVANT TO THE CONCEPT
OF TOTAL BODY SEX, AND THAT IS
THE RISE OF FETISH IN THE
CONTEXT OF S and M RELATIONS-
SADO-MASOCHISTIC RELATIONS-
THAT, THE VERY TERM, S.M. OR
SADO-MASOCHISM IS JARRING TODAY,
IT'S CALLED ROLE-PLAYING.
HERE IS AN EARLY LESBIAN S.M.
IMAGE.

The slate changes to a woman being flogged by another woman.

Edward says AND SO I WANT TO, VERY BRIEFLY,
JUST DO TWO THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO
ESTABLISH THE IMPORTANCE OF
FETISH IN THE WHOLE WORLD OF
S.M., WHICH FETISH IS A LATE
ARRIVAL IN THIS WORLD, BUT IT
VERY DEFINITELY DOES ARRIVE,
AND SO THIS IS-
THIS IS TRADITIONAL S.M. IN THE
ABSENCE OF FETISH.
NOBODY'S WEARING FUR, NOBODY'S
WEARING LEATHER, ALL YOU SEE IS
A WHIP AND SOMEBODY'S BEING
FLOGGED, OKAY?
THAT'S TRADITIONAL S.M. AND
EXAMPLES OF IT GO BACK TO, ABOUT
THE 15TH CENTURY.
AND THEN THE TABLEAU CHANGES
COMPLETELY, AND WHAT WE END UP
WITH BY THE 1920s IS IN THE
SUBCULTURE OF S.M.-
THE DOMINATRIX.

A slate changes to a black and white photo of a woman wearing leather boots,
mask, and dress, with a whip in one hand. Then changes to another slate with a
man’s face and beneath it reads "Gay Macho."

Edward says THIS IS A SLIDE FROM 1928.
OF COURSE, SHE'S OUTFITTED IN
LEATHER AND LOOKS VERY FIERCE.
THIS ALSO HAPPENS IN THE GAY
WORLD, THIS IS THE WHOLE WORLD
OF THE GAY CLONES, AS THEY WERE
CALLED, IN THE 1960s AND 70s-
MEN WHO HAD PUT ASIDE ALL THE
FEMINIZED APPARATUS OF BEING
NANCES AND QUEENS, AND WHO SAW
THEMSELVES AS TOTALLY MASCULINE,
DEED HYPER-MASCULINE, AND MANY
MEN IN THAT SUBCULTURE
ASSOCIATED LEATHER WITH THIS
KIND OF HYPER-MASCULINITY.
AND THEN, FINALLY, THE SAME
THING HAPPENS FOR LESBIANS,
ALTHOUGH IT HAPPENS A LITTLE BIT
LATER.

The slate changes to Gayle sitting on a chair, with legs spread wide and hands
on her knees. She is wearing a leather hat and boots and a shirt that says "The
Leather Menace." She has short brown hair.

Edward says THIS IS AN ANTHROPOLOGIST NAMED-
DO ANY OF YOU RECOGNIZE HER?
THIS IS AN ACADEMIC
ANTHROPOLOGIST NAMED GAYLE
RUBEN.
AND SHE ALSO IS VERY BIG IN
THE, SORT OF, LESBIAN LEATHER
SCENE, AND HERE SHE IS DRESSED
UP, READY TO DOMINATE ONE OF HER
FRIENDS.
OKAY?
SO THOSE SLIDES SIMPLY MAKE THE
POINT THAT LEATHER FETISH HAS
ARRIVED IN A BIG WAY NOW FOR
ALL 3 ORIENTATIONS, AND SO I
JUST WANT TO MAKE 2 POINTS ABOUT
THE HISTORY OF THIS DEVELOPMENT.

The slate changes to a primitive painting of a man flogging another man.

Edward says THE FIRST POINT IS THAT S.M.
ITSELF GOES BACK A LONG WAY IN
TIME AND CONSISTS LARGELY IN ONE
PARTNER FLAGELLATING ANOTHER.
SO THE ANALOGY BETWEEN THE, SORT
OF, PRIMITIVISM OF TRADITIONAL
GAY, TRADITIONAL LESBIAN,
TRADITIONAL HETEROSEXUAL
SEXUALITY AND S.M. IS VERY
CLEAR,
IT CONSISTED OF FLOGGING.
THAT WAS IT.
THAT WAS ALL PEOPLE DID.
AND THEN THE SCENE STARTS TO
CHANGE.
IT'S VERY INTERESTING THAT, IN
THE WORKS OF SADE, THE MARQUIS
DE SADE, THERE IS NO FETISH.
OF COURSE IT'S PROFOUNDLY
ORIENTED TOWARDS S.M., BUT
LEATHER, FUR, FRILLY UNDERWEAR-
ANY OF THE CLASSIC FETISHES
SIMPLY DO NOT APPEAR IN THE
NOVELS OF SADE.
OKAY?
SO THAT'S A
PERFECT EXPRESSION OF THE WORLD
OF S.M. THAT IS PERFECTLY
INTACT, AND YET THERE'S NO
FETISH.

The slate changes to a black and white painting of a woman dressed in a fur gown
with cursive writing next to her.

Edward says SO IT'S
AROUND 1970 THAT S.M. STARTS TO
BECOME FETISHIZED AND THE
OPENING GUN IN THIS IS LEOPOLD
SACHER-MASOCH'S NOVEL,
VENUS IN FUR.
1870.
AND THIS IS SACHER-MASOCH'S
LETTERHEAD, AND IT SHOWS VENUS,
IT SHOWS THE DOMINATRIX
BASICALLY OUTFITTED IN FUR,
WHICH WAS SACHER-MASOCH'S
PARTICULAR FETISH.
AND SO THE FIRST BIG FETISH IS
FUR.
AND THEN AROUND 1900, LEATHER
STARTS TO TAKE THE BATON FROM
FUR, SO THAT FUR FETISHES ARE
TODAY VIRTUALLY NONEXISTENT.
YOU CAN CONFIRM THIS BY DOING AN
INTERNET SEARCH ON FETISH FUR.
YOU'LL GET ABOUT 20 HITS.
[Laughter]

Edward says TRY FETISH
LEATHER AND YOU'LL GET A LOT
MORE HITS.
AND SO-

The slate changes to two women in a black and white photo wearing leather boots,
and one wearing a leather jacket and the other fur jacket, and leather skirts
with whips and a dog sitting at their feet.

Edward says THIS IS AN INTERESTING PHOTO.
IT WAS TAKEN AROUND 1925 BECAUSE
ONE OF THE LESBIAN WOMEN IS
DRESSED IN FUR AND THE OTHER'S
DRESSED IN LEATHER.
SO WE'RE OBVIOUSLY AT A KIND OF
CROSSOVER PERIOD HERE AS LEATHER
GOES ON TO BECOME THE DOMINANT
FETISH.
AND SO THE QUESTION IS WHY?
WHAT ACCOUNTS FOR THE RISE OF
FETISH?
TWO THOUSAND YEARS, NOTHING!
AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN SACHER-
MASSOCH IN 1870-
AND THE GATES OPEN.
OH, THERE'S BEEN LOTS OF
SPECULATION ABOUT THIS, AND THE
PSYCHOANALYSTS WHO THINK THAT,
OH, LEATHER APPEALS TO DEEPLY-
PRIMEVAL URGES...
BUT THEN HOW DO WE DEAL WITH
LATEX, WHICH IS THE BIG FETISH
ITEM TODAY?
AND I THINK THE EXPLANATION IS
THAT IT IS, LEATHER FETISH IN
PARTICULAR, THAT BRINGS THE
WHOLE BODY TOGETHER IN THIS
SYMBOLIC UNITY, IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE CONCEPT OF TOTAL BODY
SEX.
AND SO IT BECOMES A KIND OF
VISUAL OR SYMBOLIC
REPRESENTATION OF THE CONCEPT OF
TOTAL BODY SEX FOR THE SUBSET OF
PEOPLE WHO DO RESPOND TO THIS
KIND OF THING.
AND BOTH GAYS AND LESBIANS DO,
IN FACT, RESPOND TO LEATHER
FETISHISM WITHIN THEIR OWN
COMMUNITIES, THE ENTREE OF
LEATHER FETISH INTO THE GAY
COMMUNITY IS THE LEATHER
MOTORCYCLE GANG.

A cartoon shows women tied to poles and other with whips in leather. Ten changes
to a photo of a mannequin wearing a hat, leather jacket and scarf.

Edward says THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST TIME
THAT LEATHER WAS FEATURED AS AN
IMPORTANT FASHION ACCOUTREMENT
AND SINCE THIS COLLECTION IN
1960, OF COURSE, IT'S JUST TAKEN
OFF.
AND WE SEE WHERE IT IS TODAY.
[Speaks in a foreign language]

The slate changes to a photo of leather sandals and a woman’s face above. Then
changes to a photo of a Japanese girl in a leather skirt, shoes, and shirt in
front of a white van.

Edward says DON'T HAVE FALSE MODESTY.
YOU WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET
INTO LEATHER.
IT'S AN AD FOR SANDALS.
SO EVERYBODY, OF COURSE, WHO IS
INTERESTED IN LEATHER FASHION
ISN'T NECESSARILY INTERESTED IN
ROLE-PLAYING OR S.M., OR FETISH,
OR ANY OF THE REST OF IT.
IT'S BECOME A HUGE FASHION LOOK.
THIS SHOT FROM JAPAN-
WE'RE LOOKING HERE AT A GOTHIC
LOLLIED-UP AND SHE'S SET TO GO
OUT FOR A BIG EVENING ON THE
NIGHT IN TOKYO.
AND SHE'S DRESSED IN LEATHER
WITHOUT NECESSARILY SHE OR HER
BOYFRIEND'S BEING INTERESTED IN
LEATHER AT ALL.

The slate changes to a woman facing the camera wearing a white dress sitting in
her white room: with pillars and white cushioned wall and a makeup table and a
mirror.

Edward says THE FINAL IMAGE THAT I WANT TO
SHOW YOU IS A WOMAN FROM THE
1920s WHO CLEARLY IS HAPPY IN
THE SENSUALITY OF SEX, CLEARLY
SAVOURING THE WHOLE BUSINESS,
AND NOW, FINALLY, I'LL PERMIT
MYSELF TO READ FROM THIS MASSIVE
TOME-
"THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN FROM THE
T.V. SERIES,
SEX AND THE
CITY, ACHING FOR SEX
AFTER 3-DAY RESPITES AND
MANIPULATING THEIR VIBRATORS
UNTIL THE ONSET OF CARPAL TUNNEL
SYNDROME-
[Laughter]

Edward says THEY TELL US
THAT IT'S THE THRESHOLD OF THE
21ST CENTURY.
WE'RE PLAYING
IN A NEW BALLGAME.
PEOPLE LUST OPENLY, FREQUENTLY,
AND PUBLICLY, AND THEY ACT ON
THE BASIS OF DESIRE IN A WAY
THAT WOULD'VE BEEN INCONCEIVABLE
EVEN A HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
THERE'S THE EXQUISITENESS ABOUT
THIS RESPONSIVENESS TO DESIRE
THAT IS HISTORICALLY VERY
STARTLING.
WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE DESIRE
RESPONSIBLE FOR TOO MUCH, IN THE
WAY THAT SOME OBSERVERS HAVE
INCRIMINATED TELEVISION, BUT WE
MUST BE AT LEAST MINDFUL
Edward says THAT IT'S
DRIVING US FORWARD.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION.

[Applause]

Watch: Dan Pink on his book A Whole New Mind