Transcript: Imprint season 12 episode 18 | Jan 31, 2001

Tina Srebotnjak stands in a studio with pieces of art in red and orange hanging in the background.
She’s in her late thirties, with short chestnut hair and bangs. She’s wearing a light gray blazer over a white shirt.

She says HELLO, I'M TINA
SREBOTNJAK.
TONIGHT ON “IMPRINT,” NAPOLEON AND JOSEPHINE.

A clip shows a woman standing next to a giant screen showing a painting of napoleon.

She addresses an audience and says
WHY DID HE STAND WITH HIS
HAND, MY ANSWER IS BECAUSE
JOSEPHINE --

Tina says MEET SANDA GULL-AND-.

In an interview, Sandra says I TOOK OUT A BIOGRAPHY
ABOUT JOSEPHINE AND I WAS
JUST BLOWN AWAY, I COULDN'T
BELIEVE HER LIFE.
I COULDN'T BELIEVE THE
ROMANCE, THE DRAMA OF IT AND
THE MAGIC OF IT.

Now two books appear briefly.

Tina says NEW POLICIES FROM
JANE ERCK HART AND PATRICK
LING, AN “IMPRINT” REVIEW.

A guest panelist says I WAS HOOKED EVEN
THOUGH -- HOOKED TO GO FIND OUT MORE.

Tina says AND A CONVERSATION
WITH POET, NOVELIST AND
ACTIVIST JOY KOGAWA.

In an interview with Tina, Joy says IN AND OUT OF COMMUNITY
MOVEMENTS, AND WRITING AND
SO ON.
SO I'M WONDERING --

Theme music plays as the opening sequence rolls.
Fast clips show books and maps in hues of orange and red.

Back in the studio, Tina says SHE WAS THE EMPRESS
OF FRANCE, WIFE, LOVER,
CONFIDANT AND GOOD LUCK
CHARM TO NAPOLEON.
THE STORY OF JOSEPHINE HAS
COMPLETELY CAPTIVATED SANDRA
GULLAND.
SHE HAS THREE JOSEPHINE
NOVELS J, THE MANY LIVES AND
SECRET SORRIES, TALES OF
PASSION, TALES OF WOE AND
MOST RECENTLY THE LAST GREAT
DANCE ON EARTH.

The three books are shown briefly.

Tina continues WHEN GULLAND GOES ON TOUR
SHE WANTS EVERYONE TO GET IN
THE MOOD SO SHE DRESSES LIKE
THE EM RES.
HER READERS EAT IT UP.

Fast clips show people attending a book presentation.

A woman in her late sixties says SHE WAS A GIRL FROM AN ISLAND.
SHE CAME TO FRANCE.
AND SHE MET -- WELL, SHE
MARRIED -- SHE GRADUALLY GOT
NAPOLEON AND BECAME THE
FIRST LADY OF FRANCE.
I MEAN WHAT MORE COULD YOU
ASK FOR.

A woman in her forties says IT IS REALLY INTERESTING
TO GET INTO HER LIFE AND THE
DETAILS OF THAT TIME AND THE
REVOLUTION AND THE AFTERMATH
OF THE REVOLUTION AND JUST
THE STORY OF HER I REALLY
ENJOY AND THE WAY IT IS
WRITTEN IS REALLY EXCITING.
I GOT TO THE END OF THE
SECOND BOOK AND I THOUGHT
WELL, WHERE IS THE REST.

A woman in her twenties says I FOUND THEM VERY EASY TO
READ AND IT IS A REALLY
INTERESTING STORY.
THE CHARACTERS ARE REALLY
COLOURFUL AND HAVE GREAT
STORIES.

Now the author appears in an interview.
A caption reads “Sandra Gulland. The last great dance on earth.”
Sandra is in her late forties, with shoulder-length curly blond hair and glasses.

She says JOSEPHINE HAS BEEN PART
OF MY LIFE ALMOST 25 YEARS NOW.
PERHAPS EVEN 30.
I WAS BOOK EDITOR AND I WAS
RESEARCHERING AA PROJECT FOR
A SERIES OF YOUNG ADULT
BIOGRAPHIES.
AND I WENT TO THE LIBRARY
AND I TOOK OUT A BIOGRAPHY
ABOUT JOSEPHINE AND I JUST
WAS BLOWN AWAY.
I COULDN'T BELIEVE HER LIFE.
I COULDN'T BELIEVE THE
ROMANCE OF IT, AND THE DRAMA
AND MAGIC OF IT.

Now Sandra addresses an audience in an auditorium. She’s wearing an 18th century orange gown with short sleeves.

She says I THINK I SHOULD SAY
SOMETHING ABOUT THE DRESS
THAT I'M WEARING.
ONE OF MY MAIN MOTIVATIONS
FOR WRITING ABOUT JOSEPHINE
WAS SIMPLY CURIOSITY.
I WANTED TO FIND OUT AS MUCH
AS WAS POSSIBLE WHAT IT FELT
LIKE TO BE HER.
AND PART OF THAT INVOLVED
WANTING TO KNOW WHAT IT WAS
LIKE SIMPLY TO WEAR THE
CLOTHES THAT SHE WOULD WEAR.

A picture of an oil painting of Josephine pops up.

Sandra continues THE DRESS HAS, IN FACT,
TAUGHT ME A GREAT DEAL ABOUT
THIS PERIOD IN HISTORY A LOT
MORE THAN I EXPECTED.
I WAS SURPRISED HOW
COMFORTABLE IT IS.
THE FRENCH REVOLUTION WAS
LIBERATING FOR MEN BUT IT
WAS ALSO LIBERATING FOR WOMEN.
AND YOU CAN SEE THIS
REFLECTED IT IN THE FASHIONS.

In her interview, she says
JOSEPHINE WAS TOLD THAT SHE
WOULD BE UNHAPPILY MARRIED.
THAT SHE WOULD BE WIDOWED.
THAT SHE WOULD BECOME MORE
THAN A QUEEN.
AND ONE BY ONE THOSE THINGS
CAME TRUE.
AND WHEN SHE WAS IN PRISON,
THE NIGHT SHE WAS SUPPOSED
TO BE TAKEN AWAY AND BEHEADED,
SHE HAD THE SENSE THAT SHE
WAS NOT -- THAT WAS NOT
GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE SHE
WAS DESTINED TO BECOME
QUEEN.
WAS SOMETHING OF A JOKE.
SHE CONSOLED HER CELL MATE
THAT DON'T WORRY, I WAS TOLD
I'M GOING TO BE QUEEN.
I CAN'T DIE.
WELL, SHE WAS SAVED.

She reads from her book and says
MARCH 2nd, 1800.
PARIS.
JOSEPHINE, COME SEE THE
MOON.
I WOKE WITH A START.
A MAN WAS NUDGING MY
SHOULDER.
HIS FACE ILLUMINATED BY
CANDLELIGHT.
BONAPARTE IT IS YOU I SAID
BLASS ING HIS HAND.
I HAVE BEEN DREAMING OF HOME,
OF MY BEAUTIFUL HOME,
DREAMING OF THE SEA BUT I
WAS NOT ON A TROPICAL ISLAND.
I WAS IN THE DANK OPULENCE
PALACE IN THE BET OF MARIE
ANTOINETTE AND KING LOUIS
THE 16th, THE BED OF THE
DEAD ONCE.

In her interview, she says
ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT REALLY INTERESTED ME
ABOUT JOSEPHINE AND THAT
POLLIAN WAS THEIR MARRIAGE
BECAUSE THEY HAD -- THEY
WERE SUCH SOULMATES IN MANY
RESPECTS.
THEY HAD A REAL MARRIAGE IT
WASN'T A MARRIAGE OF FORM
OR -- IT STARTED OFF AS A
MARRIAGE OF CONVENIENCE BUT
IT BECAME A MARRIAGE OF A
TRUE, REALLY PASSIONATE
MARRIAGE.
NAPOLEON LOVED HER INSANELY.
SAND SHE BECAME OBSESSED
WITH HIM.
IT IS AMAZING MARRIAGE.

At the book signing, a man in his forties says I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT
THERE WAS AN ACTUAL
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
NAPOLEON AND JOSEPHINE.
I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW A LOT
ABOUT THAT.
SO I FOUND THAT EXCITING.

A teenage girl says THE BOOK REALLY BRINGS
HER ALIVE AS A PERSON.
THE ROLE SHE PLAYED IN
NAPOLEON'S LIFE.

Another teenage girl says I REMEMBER WHEN I READ
THE FINAL SCENE OF THE THIRD
BOOK AND READING OF HER
DEATH, I THOUGHT IT WAS
SOMEONE I KNEW REALLY
PERSONALLY HAD DIED.
I WAS GRIEVING FOR HER.
LIKE I WOULD NEVER HEAR HER
VOICE AGAIN.
I THOUGHT I REALLY KNEW HER
AS A PERSON.
THAT IS WHAT DID SO AMAZING
ABOUT THE BOOKS.

Back in her interview, Sandra says WHEN I STARTED WRITING
ABOUT JOSEPHINE I WAS
WRITING BECAUSE I WAS
OVERCOME WITH THE STORY OF
HER LIFE.
AND I THOUGHT NO ONE IS EVER
GOING TO WANT TO PUBLISH
THIS.
BUT IT WAS THE ONLY WAY I
COULD GO.
I JUST WENT AHEAD ANYWAY.
SO I FIND IT ABSOLUTELY
ASTONISHING TO FIND PEOPLE
AS CAUGHT UP IN HER LIFE NOW
AS I HAVE BEEN.
SO IT IS VERY EXCITING.

In the presentation, she says THERE IS A VERY POPULAR
SONG AND STORY THAT
APPARENTLY NAPOLEON SENT
JOSEPHINE SAYING I'M COMING
HOME, DON'T BATHE.
AND THE INTERPRETATION OF
THAT IS THAT JOS -- NAPOLEON
WAS FEELING RABDY AND HE
LIKED JOSEPHINE TO SMELL
RANDY.
BUT THE THING ABOUT THAT
STORY IS THAT I ASKED MY
FRENCH CONSULTANT WHAT HE
THOUGHT OF IT.
AND HE HAD NEVER HEARD OF IT.
SO I THINK THIS MIGHT BE --
BECAUSE THIS IS ONE THING
YOU LEARN WHEN DOW THIS
RESEARCH IS THAT THE
DIFFERENT CULTURES HAVE
DIFFERENT VERSIONS.
AND DIFFERENT STORIES.
THAT ARE COMPLETELY, YOU
KNOW, THEY DON'T SHARE.
SO AND FURTHERMORE, HE SAID,
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THIS
LETTER.
SO AND ALSO IT IS HIGHLY
UNLIKELY.
AND NAPOLEON AND JOSEPHINE
WERE HIGHLY FASTITIUOUS,
THEY WERE EXTREMELY CLEAN.
THEY WHAT BATHE SEVERAL
TIMES A DAY AND THAN, OF
COURSE, WE HAVE NAPOLEON.
MY THEORY IS THAT JOSEPHINE
AS THE WOMAN OF THE HOUSE
WAS VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN
THE PORTRAIT SESSIONS AND IT
IS LIKELY THAT SHE WAS THE
ONE THAT HIRED THE PORTRAIT
ARTIST AND SHE LINED IT ALL
UP AND MADE AT APPOINTMENT
AND REMINDED HER HUSBAND OR
SON ABOUT IT AND DISCUSSED
WHAT THEY INTENDED TO WEAR
AND WAS PRESENT AT THE
SESSION AND MAYBE EVEN SAID
YOU KNOW, IF YOU STOOD LIKE
THIS, YOU KNOW.
SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION
WHY DID NAPOLEON STAND WITH
HIS HAND IN HIS VEST, MY
ANSWER IS BECAUSE JOSEPHINE
SUGGESTED IT.
THANK YOU.

[Applause]

Back in the studio, Tina says THE MANY LIVES AND
SECRET SORROWS OF JOSEPHINE
IS THE FIRST IN HER TRILOGY.
THAN COMES TALES OF PASSION,
TALES OF WOE AND FINALLY THE
LAST GREAT DANCE ON EARTH.
THEY ARE ALL PUBLISHED BY
HARPERCOLLINS.

Now an animated book sitting on a table in a bookstore reveals a picture of two books, followed by a clip of Tina interviewing Joy Kogawa.

Tina says
LATER BOOKS OF POETRY FROM
TWO OF CANADA'S BEST.
AND NEXT JOY KOGAWA, POET,
NOVELIST, ACTIVIST.
SHE IS BEST KNOWN FOR
THIS BOOK, THE STORY OF
JAPANESE CANADIANS INTERED
DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
SHE WAS AWARDED THE ORDER OF
CANADA FOR HER EFFORTS TO
GET REP ARATION FOR THE
CANADIAN GOVERNMENT ON THAT SLEW.
NOW THIS WRITER AND ACTIVIST
HAS TURNED HER HAND TO THE
STORY OF CREATION.
HER NEW BOOK OF POETRY, A
SONG OF LILITH PUTS A MODERN
TWIST ON AN OLD LEGEND.
LILITH WAS SAID TO HAVE BEEN
ADAM'S FIRST WIFE, A FEISTY
INDEPENDENT WOMAN WHO
DEMANDED EQUALITY.
HER IS JOY READING FROM A
SONG OF LILITH.

A clip plays of Joy Kogawa reading from her book. Joy is in her late sixties, with short gray hair.

She reads
LILITH, EARTH'S FIRST, AN
ELEMENTAL WOMAN MADE LIKE
MAN FROM DUST AND FLESHED IN
MORTALITY, NOT FROM WOMAN
BORN NOR YET FROM MAN BUT
FROM EARTH'S CRUST FROM MIST
AND DEEP FIRE, MOTON ROCK
THROWN FROM THE FURNACE OF
EARTH'S VOLCANIC WOMAN.

In the interview, Tina says THIS IS AN ANCIENT
TALE, THE STORY OF LILITH.
WHAT WAS THE APPEAL OF IT
FOR YOU.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Joy Kogawa. A song of Lilith."

Joy says LILITH IS A VERY
CONTEMPORARY STORY BECAUSE
OF THE EMERGING
CONSCIOUSNESS OF WOMEN.
WOMEN TODAY ARE SAYING WHAT
DO YOU MEAN WE WERE BORN OUT
OF MEN.
I MEAN HOW DOES THAT MAKE
SENSE AND WHY IS IT THAT
THIS HAS BEEN THE DOMINANT
STORY FOR ALL THESE
THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS UPON
YEARS AND HAS BEEN TAKEN AS
THE GIVEN.
I THINK WE'RE SAYING THAT
JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Tina says AND OF COURSE THE APPEAL
OF LILITH IS THAT HER STORY
IS THAT SHE WAS CREATED
EQUAL.
SHE WASN'T TAKEN FROM ADAM'S
RIB.
THAT SHE WAS A COEQUAL AND
GOT TOO UPITY AND GOT TALKED
OUT OF THE GARDEN.

Joy says THAT'S RIGHT.

Tina says DID THIS COME TO YOU IN A DREAM.
DO YOU TALK ABOUT DREAMS AND
HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE.

Joy says THEY -- THE DREAM CAME UP,
I MEAN I WAS THINKING ABOUT
IT, WONDERING WHETHER I
WOULD IN FACT DO THIS
BECAUSE I WAS TOO IFFY BUT
THEN THE WORDS CAME, EVERY
NIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
NIGHT.
AND SO I WOULD GET UP AND
WRITE THEM DOWN AND THROW
THEM INTO A BOX, NOT LOOK AT
THEM.
AND KEPT DOING THIS FOR A
WHOLE MONTH OR SO.
AND AT THE END OF THE TIME,
I PICKED THEM OUT OF THE BOX,
LOOKED AT THEM AND SAID OH,
YEAH, THOSE WORDS SEEM TO
SAY THIS.
THESE WORDS SEEM TO SAY
THIS.
I PUT NUMBERS ON THESE
PAGES.
AND THEY WERE THREE
SECTIONS.
THE BIRTH AND THE RETURN AND
STUFF IN THE MIDDLE.

Tina says BOY, YOU SHOULD TRY
LEARNING SPANISH AT NIGHT.
YOU MUST BE ONE OF THESE
PEOPLE WHO HAS SUCH AN
ACTIVE SUBLIMINAL SENSE.
I'M SURE YOU WOULD BE GREAT
IF ALL THIS STUFF CAME TO
YOU IN A DREAM.

Joy says I REALLY TRUST THAT STUFF
THAT IS UNDER THE
CONSCIOUSNESS, OR WHATEVER.
WHO KNOWS WHAT CONSCIOUSNESS
IS BUT TO ME IT IS LIKE THIS
ICEBERG, THE PART THAT IS
ABOVE IS THE PART THAT WE
SEE, THE PART THAT WOULD
SPEAK.
BUT IT IS WHAT IS UNDERNEATH
THAT DIRECTS THE ICEBERG'S
FLOW AND IT IS MUCH LARGER.
SO IT IS WHAT IS UNDERNEATH.
AND IT IS WHAT IS UNDERNEATH
THE NIGHT, WHAT IS
UNDERNEATH OUR WORDS WHAT IS
UNDERNEATH EVERYTHING.
BUT NOT AS MORE I THINK
AND –

Tina says NOW THE POEM HAS SOME
VERY MODERN touches.
I MEAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE
GODS OF MONEY AND THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT IS VERY
IMPORTANT TO YOU IN YOUR
LIFE AS AN ACTIVIST WHAT
PEOPLE ARE SO OBSESSED WITH
GETTING THINGS AND THE
CULTURE OF ACQUISITION.
TELL ME ABOUT THAT, ABOUT
HOW YOU HAVE COME TO DO THE
WORK THAT YOU DO.

Joy says THE DREAM THAT WE WEAVE
TODAY IS THAT MONEY WILL
SAVE US, MONEY WILL DO
EVERYTHING FOR US.
AND THEREFORE WE MUST HAVE
IT AT ALL COST.
AND WE MUST HAVE IT FOR
OURSELVES.
WE BELIEVE IN THE
SELFISHNESS DREAM.
AND WE BELIEVE DEEPLY THAT
THAT KIND OF SELF-INTEREST
IS THE ONLY THING THAT WE
CAN DRIVE CULTURES.
WE DO DEEPLY, DEEPLY BELIEVE
THIS.
THERE IS ANOTHER “WE” IN
DREAMS THAT WE TRAMPLE ON
BECAUSE WE SAY IT DOESN'T
WORK AND THAT DREAM IS THAT
WE DO CARE DEEPLY ABOUT ONE
ANOTHER AND ABOUT THE FUTURE
AND ABOUT WHEREVER THERE IS
SUFFERING.
AND WE SAY THAT WE ARE
CONNECTED AND WE BELIEVE IN
CONNECTION.
WE BELIEVE THAT NO ONE IS
FREE UNLESS ALL ARE FREE.
WE ALSO HAVE THIS DREAM.
BUT THERE IS A STORY I WAS
READING THE OTHER DAY ABOUT
THE TIME THAT JESUS WAS AT
THE WELL.
AND HE WAS SAYING I CAN GIVE
YOU WATER AND IF YOU DRINK
FROM THE WATER YOU WILL
NEVER THIRST AGAIN.
AND THE WOMAN WANTED TO HAVE
THAT WATER, THE WOMAN OF THE
WELL.
AND I SOMETIMES FEEL LIKE
I'M THE WOMAN AT THE WELL.
AND SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE
ANOTHER KIND OF WATER.
AND THIS LITTLE TINY DROP,
BUT IF YOU DRINK OF THIS
WATER YOU WILL NOT BE HOT
AND THIRSTY AS IF YOU
DROPPED ONLY AT THE WATER OF
COMPETITION.
YOU WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE A
DRINK THAT GROWS OUT OF
COOPERATION.
ANYWAY, THAT IS THE DREAM.

Tina says AND IT IS A WONDERFUL
DREAM, AND TO BE CELEBRATED.
EXPLAIN WHAT THE TORONTO
DOLLAR IS.

Joy says WE HAVE CREATED A
CURRENCY WHICH IS CALLED 9
TORONTO DOLLAR.
YOU CAN BUY IT IN OUR AREA,
YOU CAN GET THE CIBC -- AT
THE St. LAWRENCE MARKET, YOU
BUY IT DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR,
YOU CAN SPEND IT AT ALL THE
MERCHANT ITS AND BUSINESSES
AND INDIVIDUALS THAT WILL
TAKE IT, AND GET A DOLLAR'S
WORTH OF GOODS AND SERVICES.
AND SO THERE IT IS, THIS
MONEY.
YOU SAY WELL, SO, YOU KNOW,
BUT TEN PERCENT OF THAT
MONEY THAT YOU PUT -- THAT
YOU SPEND TO GET THE TORONTO
DOLLAR THAN GOES TO
COMMUNITY WORK.
SO YOU HAVE ACTUALLY CREATED
A LITTLE POOL THAT IS MORE
THAN THE MONEY THAT WAS
THERE WHICH NOW CAN GO TO
COMMUNITY.
NOW THIS IS SUCH A MINUSCULE
THING BUT IF MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE WERE DOING IT, THAN
IT WOULD BE GREATER AND
GREATER.
SO WE ARE JUST A BUNCH OF
VOLUNTEERS THAT DON'T HAVE
ANY MONEY FOR PROMOTIONAL
WORK.
SO HOW DO YOU GET THIS
MESSAGE OUT.
AND I THINK IT TAKES MEDIA
INTEREST IN IT.

Tina says THAT IS EXACTLY
WHAT IT TAKES, MEDIA
INTEREST AND PEOPLE DOING
STORIES ABOUT YOU AND
HOLDING UP A TORONTO DOLLAR
AND SAYING LOOK, THIS IS GREAT.
WELL, YOU SHOULD -- BUT
YOU KNOW, THAT IS EXACTLY
WHAT IT MAKES -- TAKESED.
AND I THINK PEOPLE WOULD BE
IMMENSELY ATTRACT.
REALLY IN THEIR HEARTS WHO
DOESN'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING GOOD.
VERY FEW PEOPLE, YOU KNOW,
MOST PEOPLE DO.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT
BEING AN ACTIVIST BECAUSE,
OF COURSE, YOU ARE SO WELL
KNOWN FOR YOUR WORK WITH THE
JAPANESE CANADIAN REDRESS
COMMITTEE.
YOU BECAME AN ACTIVIST THEN
IF YOU HADN'T BEEN BEFORE.
YOU WROTE THE BEAUTIFUL BOOK
AND WERE ACTIVE IN THE
MOVEMENT TO GET REDRESS
WHICH FINALLY CAME FROM THE
GOVERNMENT.
IS THAT A THING YOU WERE
VERY COMFORTABLE WITH.
DID YOU LIKE BEING AN
ACTIVIST OR DID SOMETHING
POLITICIZE YOU OR ARE YOU
JUST A BORN FIGHTER.

Joy says THE CHARACTER THAT IS
DESCRIBED IN THE BOOK, SHE
WAS VERY, VERY SHY.
AND THAT WAS ME.
I DIDN'T KNOW SOMEBODY LIKE
THAT.
BUT BY WRITING HER OUT AND
THAN GOING YANKED INTO THE
LIGHT OF IT AND WANTING TO
RUN FROM IT BECAUSE IT WAS
SO SCARY, WHEN I GOT
INVOLVED IN THE POLITICAL
MOVEMENT, I WAS, OH, A -- I
DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING AND I
WAS SCARED.
I WAS SO SCARE.
AND I CAN REMEMBER SOME OF
THE DARK -- THINGS THAT COME
WHEN ARE YOU THERE IN THAT
KIND OF THING AND WANTING TO
JUST TOTALLY SHRINK.
AND THAT WAS A DEEP THING.
BUT ESPECIALLY, AUNT EMILY
TOOK HOLD AND ROOTED HERSELF
IN ME SO THAT I BEGAN TO
FEEL OVER MANY YEARS MORE
ABLE TO BE THERE.
SO THAT NOW WITH THE LILITH
STORY AND WITH THE TORONTO
DOLLAR, THE STAGE THAT I'M
AT PRECISELY AT THIS MOMENT
IS TO WONDER -- IN AND OUT
OF COMMUNITY MOVEMENTS, IN
AND OUT OF WRITING AND SO
ON.
SO I'M WONDERING WHAT IS IT
THAT IT IS REALLY RECALLED
NOW.

Tina says AND HOW WILL YOU KNOW.

Joy says WELL, I THINK THAT FOR ME
THE ONLY THING THAT IS
REALLY REQUIRED IS NOT THAT
I HAVE TO KNOW BUT THAT I
HAVE TO TRUST AND THAN I
WILL PROCEED IN THE
BLINDNESS BECAUSE I'M BLIND,
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.
AND I DO TRUST.
AND THAT IS THE MAIN WORD
FOR THE JOURNEY FOR ME.
SO I DON'T KNOW.
I GO THIS WAY PERHAPS, AND
THAT WAY PERHAPS PRACTICE
AND FIND THAT I NEED TO DO
THIS, OR THAT OR THE OTHER.
AND IT IS CHAOTIC BUT OUT OF
THE TRUST WILL COME WHAT IS
NECESSARY.

Tina says IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE
TALKING TO YOU.
I WOULD LIKE TO BUY SOME
TORONTO DOLLARS.
I WILL GO OUT AND RUSH AND
DO THAT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Joy says OKAY.

Back in the studio, Tina says A SONG OF LILITH BY
JOY KOGAWA IS PUBLISHED BY
POLLSTAR BOOK PUBLISHERS.
I DID BUY SOME TORONTO
DOLLARS FROM JOY, SIX, A
FIVE and A 1, BIG BUDGET AT “IMPRINT.”
YOU CAN USE THEM AT
PARTICIPATING STORES LIKE
THE St. LAWRENCE MARKET AND
THE MERCHANTS DONATE 10 percent TO
COMMUNITY PROJECTS.
THERE IS A GREAT
QUOTE DILLON THOMAS ONCE
SAID THE WORLD IS NEVER THE
SAME ONCE A GOOD POEM HAS
BEEN ADDED TO IT WELL, THE
WORLD HAS BEEN ENRICHED
BECAUSE TWO OF OUR BEST PO
WET -- POETS HAVE COME OUT
WITH TWO NEW ELECTIONS, JANE
URQUHART AND PATRICK LANE.
HERE TO SHARE THEIR VIEWS ON
THESE BOOKS ARE MOLLY
PEACOCK AND RADIO PRODUCE
GREG KELLY.
MOLLY, WILL YOU TALK TO US
ABOUT JANE URQUHART WHO IS
SO WELL-KNOWN AS A NOVELIST,
ESPECIALLY FOR HER BOOKS
AWAY AND THE UNDERPAINTERS
BUT TALK TO ME ABOUT HER AS
A POET.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Molly Peacock. Poet."
Molly is in her fifties, with blond hair in a bob and bangs.

She says THESE ARE EARLIER POEMS
AND VERY METICULOUSLY
CRAFTED.
AND YOU CAN DIVE INTO THEM.
FULL OF IMAGES, VERY
EXCITING.
AND WRITTEN FROM THE POINT
OF VIEW OF THE MISTRESS.
IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS EVER
BEEN A MISTRESS -- MISTRESS
OF A POWERFUL MAN.

Tina says THIS IS NOT JUST
ANY POWERFUL MAN.

Molly says THIS IS YOUR OLD SUN GOD,
THE SUN KING AND THE POINT
OF VIEW IS FROM -- ABOUT
WHOM I KNEW VERY LITTLE AND
IT GAVE ME A LITTLE BIT OF
AM I GOING TO UNDERSTAND BUT
I WAS CURED WITH THE FIRST
POEM WHICH IS CALLED SHADOW.
AND THE SUN IS SO BRIGHT,
THE KING IS SO BRIGHT THAT
HIS IMAGE COMES IN AS THE
SUN HAVING FINGERNAILS THAT
RAKE ACROSS THE UPHOLSTERY.

The caption changes to "Greg Kelly. Radio Producer."
Greg is in his late thirties, clean-shaven and balding.

He says PATRICK LANE'S OWN
BACKGROUND IS DECIDEDLY BLUE
COLLAR, HE HAS DONE A LOT OF
DIFFERENT THINGS FROM
CARPENTER, TO WORK ON THE
RAILS, TO WORKING IN THE
BUSH, TO BEING AN ACCOUNTANT.
HE ALSO BELIEVES THAT POETRY
A LA WORDS WORTH SHOULD BE
WRITTEN IN THE LANGUAGE OF
EVERY DAY LIFE.
NOT TO SAY HE DOESN'T HAVE
TECHNICAL EXPERTISE.
HE CAN SLING IT ALL IF HE IS
SO INCLINED BUT ESSENTIALLY
YOU CAN GET A LOT OUT OF
THIS COLLECTION AT A FIRST
READ AND HE BASES A LOT OF
WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ON
EXPERIENCES THAT ARE ALMOST
CERTAINLY AUTO BUY
GRAPHICALLY DRIVEN.
HE SEES NO SHAME IN IT.
THE WAY HE HANDLES IT -- IT
IS LOVELY.

Tina says HE IS PART OF THE
WEST COAST LITERARY
ESTABLISHMENT.
HE HANGS OUT WITH SUSAN
MUSGRAVE AND STEPHEN REID.
AND MOLLY WAS SAYING IN JANE
URQUHART'S BOOK THERE IS A
CLEAR THEME.
IS THERE A THEME IN PATRICK
LANE'S BOOK.

Greg says I WOULD SUGGEST THAT
THERE ARE THEMES.
IT IS MORE TREATMENTS THAT
ARE THE SAME.
THAT IS THAT THEY ARE DRAWN
FROM HIS OWN LIFE AND
DELIVERED IN A WAY THAT IS
VERY POIGNANT, SOMETIMES THE
REALITIES ARE QUITE STARK.
THE TITLE OF IT -- IS DRAWN
FROM WELL, IT IS THE TITLE
POEM, AND DRAWN FROM THE
EXPERIENCE OF LOOKING
OUTSIDE IN THE WINTER,
SEEING THAT KIND OF HAZEY
THICK RAIN THAT YOU SEE WHEN
IS OF COURSE STARK AND MAYBE
UNAPPEALING IN SOME WAYS,
BUT IT IS ONLY BY LOOKING
AND CONFRONTING IT THAT YOU
CAN SEE SOMETHING ELSE THAT
IS REVEALED THROUGH IT.
AND HE DOES THIS CONSTANTLY
AND DOES THIS BY GOING FOR
WORDS AND GOING FOR
EXPERIENCES THAT MIGHT
OTHERWISE BE POORLY HANDLED
BY A LESSER WRITING.
BUT HE DOES IT I THINK PITCH
PERFECTLY.

Tina says MOLLY, JANE
URQUHART I HAVE ALWAYS
THOUGHT HAS HANDLED THE
ELEMENTS SO WELL IN HER
WRITING.
IF YOU THINK OF A BOOK LIKE
THE UNDERPAINTER WHERE SHE
TALKED ABOUT WINTER AND THAT
GREG WAS TALKING ABOUT
WINTER RAIN, IN THIS BOOK
THERE ARE SOME FABULOUS
SCENES IN THE WINTERTIME,
DON'T YOU FIND IN THE
GARDEN.

Molly says WHAT IS AMAZING, WE'VE
GOT THE ONTARIO POINT OF
VIEW AT VERSAILLES.
SO THAT USUALLY WHEN WE
THINK OF VERSAILLES WE THINK
OF IT IN BLOOM.
NO, THIS IS VERSAILLES IN THE
WINTER WITH URQUHART'S COLD
EYE AND SHE HAS AMAZING
IMAGES.
THERE IS ONE IMAGE OF THE
STARK TREES AGAINST THE SKY,
LIKE FIRECRACKERS.
AND THEY ARE SHARP, SMALL,
ABSOLUTELY ORIGINAL IMAGES.
I THINK OF ALL OF THE WINTER
TREE IMAGERY, YOU CAN READ
IN POETRY.
AND THERE IS THAT QUITE
ORIGINAL AND ARRESTING
IMAGE.
AND IT ALLOWS US INTO REALLY
WHAT COULD BE A VERY ARCANE
SITUATION BUT IS NOT.
IS IN FACT A SENSUOUS AND
FASCINATING STUDY OF THE
UNDERCURRENTS OF
RELATIONSHIPS IN THE COURTS,
A COURT WHICH WE DON'T
REALLY NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING
ABOUT.
IT IS WONDERFUL TO HAVE THE
CONTEXT BUT THE BOOK IS SO
EMOTIONAL AND ARE YOU SO
DRAWN IN, AT LEAST I WAS AS
A READER, I WAS HOOKED EVEN
THOUGH -- HOOKED ENOUGH TO
GO FIND OUT MORE.
SO THERE IS -- AND I HAD
TO, IT IS REALLY CREEPY
BECAUSE THE POISON IS IN THE
SHIRT AND IT SINKS INTO THE
MEAT OF THE THE SHOULDER.
AND TURNS OUT THAT THIS
MISTRESS THE KING WAS
INVOLVED IN WAS A POISON
SCANDAL, NOT THAT YOU NEED
TO KNOW THAT TO READ THE
POEM BUT THEY LURE YOU,
INVITE YOU INTO THE GREATER
CONTENT.

Tina says PATRICK WRITES
CONTEMPORARY POETRY BUT IT
HAS AN INCREDIBLE EMOTIONAL
PLUNGE, DID YOU FIND THAT.

Greg says ABSOLUTELY.
THERE IS SOMETHING SO DIRECT
ABOUT THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU
FEEL YOU KIND OF KNOW THIS
GUY.
HE IS NOT AFRAID TO PUT HIS
LIFE OUT THERE BUT IT IS NOT
HEY LOOK AT ME, IT IS MORE I
WANT TO YOU SEE WHAT I HAVE
SEEN.
THERE IS ONE POEM IN
PARTICULAR QUITE TOUCHING
CALLED THE LAST DAY OF MY
MOTHER WHICH IS ABOUT,
INDEED, THE LAST DAY OF HIS
MOTHER WHO DIED.
AND HE TALK ABOUT VISITING
HER ON HER DEATHBED AND HOW,
I SUPPOSE, HELPLESS AND IN
SOME WAYS INCONTINENT SHE
HAS BECOME.
THERE IS A TOUCHING SCENE IN
WHICH THE BANGS OF HER HAIR
HE FOLDED DOWN OVER HER HEAD
AND TALKS ABOUT COUNTING
THEM AND TALKED ABOUT HOW HE
ASHAMEDLY STARTED TO CRY.
AND THEN HE WRITES THAT LAST
DAY I CHANGED HER DIAPER,
TOOK A CLOTH AND CLEANSED
HER THIGHS AND SEX AND
THOUGHT OF THE PLACE I HAD
COME FROM.
THOSE LEGS SPREAD, HER PAIN,
THE OPENING WHERE MY EYES
FIRST FOUND WHAT LIGHT THERE
IS, HER QUICK SILENCE, MY
FIRST CRY.
AND ON A FIRST READING YOU
CAN'T -- YOU CAN OF COURSE
RESONATE WITH THAT, IT IS
VERY POWERFUL, THE DEATH OF
A PARENT IS ONE OF THE MOST
POWERFUL AND BITTERSWEET
THINGS THERE IS.
BUT WHEN YOU GO BACK YOU SEE
THE ART THERE AS WELL
BECAUSE HE TALKED ABOUT
CRYING AND THAN MY FIRST CRY
AND YOU GET THESE THINGS ARE
ARE TIED UP, THE WAY THE
WORDS ATTACH TO EACH OTHER
AND REPEAT THEMSELVES.
AND THE ART THAT COMES IN
AFTER THE FACT BUT HE SPILLS
IT DOWN AS THOUGH IT READS
LIKE WATER TRICKLING ON THE
PAGE.
A GREAT STYLE.

Tina says NOW THESE ARE TWO
LITERARY STARS THAT WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT IN THIS
COUNTRY AND WE HAVE A LOT OF
THEM BUT DO YOU WANT TO TELL
ME ABOUT UP-AND-COMERS.

Molly says I THINK THAT BRUCE MYER
IS AN UP-AND-COMER IN THIS
BOOK ANYWHERE.
HE TAKES ON THE CHALLENGE OF
WRITING ABOUT HAPPINESS.

Tina says THAT IS A CHALLENGE
BECAUSE NORMALLY PEOPLE
WRITE ABOUT SADNESS.

Molly says POETS TEND TO WRITE OUT
OF THEIR OWN.
AND HE IS WRITING OUT OF A
SENSE OF CONNECTION AND WHAT
MAKES THAT OPENING UP OF
HAPPINESS INSIDE HIM, INSIDE
HIS FAMILY.
HE IS WRITING AS A FATHER,
AS A HUSBAND.
THERE ARE DOMESTIC PROBLEMS,
THEY ARE ORDINARY AND THEY
ARE VERY, VERY CLASSLY
ARCHITECTED.
HE IS A FORMALIST.
HE IS UNABASHED ABOUT IT.
AND THOSE STRUCTURES ARE
VERY, VERY APPARENT IN THE
WORK.

Tina says GREG, DID YOU HAVE ONE.

Greg says YES, I DID.
THERE ARE LOTS TO CHOOSE
FROM BUT I CHOSE THE YOUNG
KINGSTON ONTARIO WRITER WHO
JUST PUBLISHED HIS FIRST
NOVEL, HERE I AM, CALLED
SHADOWBOXER, HIS MOST REAP
COLLECTIONS OF VERSUS CALLED
THE ECSTASY OF SKEPTICS,
CAME OUT FIVE YEARS AGO.
AND HE JUST -- ONE OF HIS
FAVOURITE, HE IS A BIG FAN
OF THE FRENCH WRITER,
FINDING JUST THE WRITE WORDS
SEEMS TO BE WHAT OBSESSES
HIM AND IT IS A HAPPY
OBSESSION BECAUSE WHEN YOU
READ THE NOVEL OR HIS POETRY
YOU CAN GET SOMETHING ON THE
FIRST READING BUT WHEN YOU
GO BACK YOU SEE HOW MUCH
JEWELED IT REALLY IS AND HOW
THINGS ARE PLACED AND WHERE
THE POLISH IS.
BUT IT IS NOT OSTENTATIOUS
AND YELLING AT YOU I'M A
POET.
I AM ASKING HIM WHEN THAT
NANTUCKET SERIES WAS DONE BY HIM.

Tina says I LOOK FORWARD TO HIS
NEXT SELECTION BUT IN THE
MEANTIME --
THE BOOKS TO SAVER AS ALL POETRY IS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Molly says THANK YOU.

Tina says AND THAT IS “IMPRINT” FOR
TONIGHT, COME BACK NEXT TIME
FOR MORE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE
WORLD OF BOOKS.

Theme music plays as the end credits roll.

Special thanks, International Festival of Authors, Canadian Sculpture Centre, ROM Affordable Theatre Series, Richard McNeill, Sandra Ainsley Gallery, Sculpture Society of Canada.

Imprint. C/O TVOntario. P.O. Box 200. Station Q, Toronto, Ontario. M4T 2T1.

Fax: 416-484-2780.

E-mail: imprint@tvo.org.

Website: www.tvo.org/imprint

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2001, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Imprint season 12 episode 18