Transcript: Imprint season 12 episode 4 | Oct 18, 2000

Tina Srebotnjak stands in a studio with pieces of art in red and orange hanging in the background.
She’s in her late thirties, with short chestnut hair and bangs. She’s wearing a gray shirt.

She says GOOD EVENING I'M
TINA SREBOTNJAK, TONIGHT ON
“IMPRINT” DAVID ADD AND RICHARDS, THE TALK OF THE
TOWN AND HE IS GOING FOR THE
GILLER.

Piano music plays.
In animation, the title “Imprint” appears against a waving background in orange hues.
Then, a clip shows a man showing off a framed copy of a book cover.

A female voice says I WOULD LIKE YOU ALL NOW
TO RAISE YOUR GLASS AND A
TOAST TO DAVE RICHARDS AND
TO THE GREAT SUCCESSES THAT
WE KNOW ARE TO COME.
DAVE RICHARDS.

Now another clip shows Tina interviewing a blond woman in her forties.

Tina says SUSAN MUSGRAVE BACK
WHERE SHE STARTED WITH A NEW
NOVEL ABOUT PRISON LIFE AND
A HUGS, STEPHEN REID IN JAIL.

Susan says I THOUGHT THAT CHAPTER OF
MY LIFE WAS OVER.
I HAVE DONE THAT I HAVE
WRITTEN ABOUT IT I HAVE
WRITTEN A NOVEL ABOUT IT.
I DON'T WANT ANY MORE.
LIFE TURNS OUT THE WAY YOU
DON'T EXPECT.

Then a clip shows Stephen King using a computer.

Tina says AND STEPHEN KING
ON-LINE, IS THIS A CRIME
AGAINST OLD-FASHIONED
PUBLISHING.

Theme music plays as the opening sequence rolls.
Fast clips show books and maps in hues of orange and red.

Then Tina reappears and says
DAVID ADAMS
RICHARDS HAS BEEN CALLED
MANY THINGS THROUGHOUT HIS
WRITING CAREER, LITERARY
UNDERDOG, OUTSIDER, THE BEST
CANADIAN WRITER WE'VE NEVER
READ.
ALL THAT HAS CHANGED WITH
THE PUBLICATION OF THIS BOOK.

She shows a book with a gray cover and continues
MERCY AMONG THE CHILDREN
PUTS RICHARDS FIRMLY ON THE
ROAD TO LITERARY STARDOM.
IT HAS A SACK FULL OF
GLOWING REVIEWS AND A
NOMINATION FOR THE GILLER,
THE BIGGEST PRIZE FOR
CANADIAN LITERATURE.
THAT IS NO SURPRISE TO HIS
FANS WHO FOR YEARS HAVE
LOVED HIS STORIES OF LIFE IN
NEW BRUNSWICK MIRAMICHI REGION.
SOME OF THOSE FANS GATHERED
FOR HIS FOOT LAUNCH ALONG
WITH “IMPRINT'S” NEWEST
CONTRIBUTOR.

(music plays)
Fast clips show people having fun at an Irish bar.
Fiddlers play tunes.

Then, a woman in her late twenties speaks to an unseen interviewer.

A caption reads “Maya Mavjee.”

Maya says HE CAN BE PERCEIVED AS A
LITERARY UNDERDOG BECAUSE
PEOPLE WILL FIND HIS
WRITING -- HE IS HE IS
WRITING A STORY THAT IS
GOING --

A man in his thirties captioned “Brad Martin” says
THIS IS A BREAKOUT BOOK.

Don Sedgwick, in his fifties, says
FOR MANY YEARS SEEN AS A
REGIONAL WRITING BECAUSE HE
LIVED IN NEW BRUNSWICK AND
HE WROTE ABOUT PEOPLE IN NEW
BRUNSWICK.
MY RESPONSE TO THAT ALWAYS
WAS WOULD YOU CALL
HEMMINGWAY A REGIONAL
WRITING BECAUSE HE WROTE
ABOUT THE SOUTH, NO.

Now a man in his late forties, with gray hair and a trimmed beard interviews David Adams.

The interviewer says HE RECEIVED A LOT OF
CRITICAL PRAISE IN THIS
COUNTRY BUT IN SOME WAYS I
GUESS YOU COULD SAY THAT A
BIG COMMERCIAL SUCCESS HAS
ELUDED YOU.
SOME OF THE LITERARY PRESS
CALL YOU A LITERARY
UNDERDOG.
I MEAN HOW DO YOU SEE
YOURSELF IN CANADIAN
LETTERS.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "David Adams Richards. Mercy Among the Children."

David says I'M NOT REALLY SURE
BECAUSE I DON'T THINK SOME
OF THE BOOKS THAT I HAVE
WRITTEN HAVE REALLY SEEN THE
LIGHT OF DAY AS FAR AS WHAT
COULD BE SAID ABOUT THEM OR
HOW THEY COULD BE VIEWED BUT
OTHER BOOKS I HAVE, PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN VERY KIND TO ME.
SO THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES
ON ANY ONE BOOK.

The interviewer says THEY ARE WONDERFUL BOOKS
MOST PEOPLE THAT KNOW ABOUT THEM.

David says WELL, THERE IS ALSO THE
PLACE YOU COME FROM.
I DIDN'T GET A READING
OUTSIDE OF NEW BRUNSWICK
UNTIL I HAD WRITTEN FIVE
BOOKS.
NOW IF A PERSON COMES FROM
AN URBAN CENTRE IN CANADA
AND HAS WRITTEN FIVE BOOKS,
HE WAS OR SHE WOULD HAVE FAR
MORE ATTENTION THAN A WRITER
FROM THE MARITIMES.

The interviewer says WHY IS THAT.

David says THAT IS JUST THE GEOGRAPHICS.

The interviewer says BECAUSE YOU ARE AN
OUTSIDER, IS THAT IT OR YOU
DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

David says IT IS AN URBAN-CURRENT
TRICK WORLD AND I WRITE
ABOUT A RURAL POSITION.
AND THE WORLD HAS FAST, FAST
BECOME AN URBAN CENTRED
WORLD WHERE URBAN IDEAS
DOMINATE.
SO IN A SENSE, YEAH, IT'S AN
OUTSIDE, IT IS WRITING FROM
THE I BELIEVES AND FROM THE
PERIPHERY.
AND SO IT TAKES LONGER.
AND THAT IS ONLY NATURAL.
I MEAN I'M NOT SAYING THAT
THERE IS -- THAT IS ONLY
NATURAL BUT IT WAS FIVE
BOOKS I HAD WRITTEN BEFORE I
GOT A READING IN TORONTO.

The interviewer says YOU ONCE SAID THAT YOU
WERE condemned TO BE A WRITER.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT.

David says WELL, THERE IS NOTHING
ELSE I COULD DO.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHY I
BECAME A WRITER.
I MEAN I CAN'T ANSWER THE
REASON WHY.
I CAN SAY WELL, I READ ALL
OF THE -- IN A CERTAIN SENSE
WHAT DOES THAT MATTER.

The interviewer says BUT WHAT DOES THE WORD
CONDEMNED INTEREST ME.

David says WELL, YEAH, FOR MANY
YEARS I DIDN'T EARN A CENT.
AND IF I HAD ANY BRAINS AT
ALL I WOULD HAVE TRIED TO
BECOME A TEACHER OR LIE
BRANNIAN OR SOMETHING.
I MEAN THERE WAS ONE YEAR I
EARNED 500 dollars.
SO IN A WAY IT IS CONDEMNED
AND IN A WAY ALSO IT IS WHO
IS AROUND ME THAT I CONDEMN
WHICH IS MY WIFE.
I MEAN I CONDEMNED HER TO
THIS TOO BECAUSE OF MANY
YEARS WE DIDN'T HAVE A --
AND SO THERE -- A CENT SO
THERE THERE WERE CERTAINLY
FITS IN A CERTAIN ASPECT.
BUT IN ANOTHER WAY I DO
LOVE WHAT I DO.
AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO DO
ANYTHING ELSE.

Don Sedgwick says STEVE, I THINK HAS THE
ABILITY TO WRITE ABOUT
PEOPLE IN A WAY THAT
CAPTURES THEIR DIGNITY.
HE ALSO IS A QUINTESSENTIAL
STORYTELLER.
HE KNOWS A GOOD YARN AND HE
TELLS IT WELL.
AND THAT TO ME IS THE
ESSENCE OF A GREAT BOOK.

Brad Martin says HIS WRITING IS ELEMENTAL.
HE CAPTURES THE ESSENCE AND
TAKES YOU DEEP INTO THE
HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

Christine Innes, in her early thirties, says CERTAIN PARTS OF THE
CHARACTER THAT HE WRITES
BEEN, HE IS A VERY HONEST
PERSON AND LOOKS YOU IN THE
EYE AND HE GETS TO YOU.

Now a woman in her early thirties introduces David on a small stage in the bar.

She says ON BEHALF OF THE
PUBLICITY, MARKETING AND
EDITORIAL DEPARTMENT OF
DOUBLE DAY CANADA, I CAN SAY,
DAVE, THAT THIS HAS BEEN
TRULY AN HONOUR TO WORK WITH
A WRITER OF YOUR CALIBRE AND
ALSO YOU HAVE BECOME A VERY
DEAR FRIEND TO A LOT OF US.
WE WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU
THIS SMALL TOKEN AND TO
CONGRATULATE YOU ON THE
PUBLICATION OF MERCY AMONG
THE CHILDREN.

She hands David a framed print of the book cover.

David says THANK YOU VERY MUCH

[Applause]

The woman says AND I WOULD LIKE YOU ALL
NOW TO RAISE YOUR GLASS AND
A TOAST TO DAVE RICHARDS AND
TO THE GREAT SUCCESSES THAT
WE KNOW ARE COMING, DAVE RICHARDS.

They all toast.

David says THANK YOU.

[Applause]

Back in the studio, Tina says MERCY AMONG THE
CHILDREN BY DAVID ADAMS
RICHARDS IS PUBLISHED BY
DOUBLE DAY CANADA.

Now an animated book sitting on a bar countertop reveals black and white pictures and a computer browsing Stephen King’s webpage.

Tina says LATER SUSAN MUSGRAVE ON
PRISON LIFE WITH HER HUSBAND
STEPHEN REID.
AND NEXT STEPHEN KING
PUBLISHES ON-LINE.
SHOULD PUBLISHERS BE SCARED.
NOW WE ALL KNOW STEPHEN KING
IS ONE SCARY GUY.
LATELY HE HAS BEEN
TERRIFYING PUBLISHERS AS
WELL AS READERS.
IN FACT, HE HAS SAID HE
WOULD LIKE TO BECOME BIG
PUBLISHING'S WORST NIGHTMARE
BY CUTTING OUT THE
OLD-FASHIONED MIDDLEMAN AND
SELLING THE BOOK DIRECTLY TO
THE PLI ON-LINE.
THESE TWO HAVE BEEN
DOWNLOADING IT AND ARE HERE
TO TELL US.
WHAT HAS HE DONE EXACTLY.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Cynthia Macdonald. Writer."
Cynthia is in her thirties, with blond hair in a short bob. she’s wearing a striped sweater.

She says LET ME GIVE YOU HISTORY.
EARLIER THIS SUMMER STEPH
KING WROTE WTING THE BOARD
AND PUT IT ON BOARD ND
ASKED PEOPLE TO PAY 2.50 TO
BE ABLE TO DOWNLOAD THIS
NOVELA.
HE ENCRYPTED IT WHICH MEANS
HE PROTECTED IT YOU HAD TO
PAY THE 2.50 TO GET IT AND
PEOPLE DID THAT.
BUT AN ARMY OF GEEKS BROKE
THE GOD SO THAT THIS
INFORMATION, OR THIS STEPHEN
KING NOVELA WENT SPREADING
ALL OVER THE INTERNET LIKE
CHOLERA.
SO NOW WHAT HE HAS DONE IS
DECIDED TO DOWNLOAD HIS NEW
NOVEL THE PLANT, ONE CHAPTER
AT A TIME AND IS ASKING
PEOPLE TO PAY ON THE HONOUR
SYSTEM.
SO YOU PAY 1 dollar PER CHAPTER.
HE WANTS A 75 percent PAYMENT RATE.
IF IT GOES BELOW THAT THAN
HE PROMISES TO STOP GIVING
THE CHAPTERS.
HE HAS DONE THREE CHAPTERS
SO FAR.
I READ THEM AND THEY ARE
STEPHEN KING CHAPTERS WHICH
IS TO SAY NOT VERY GOOD.

Tina says WELL, LET'S NOT BE SNOBBISH.
DOMINIC, THE IDEA HERE, I
GATHER THE CRITICAL THING IS
THIS TIME HE HAS CUT OUT THE
PUBLISHERS, THE WHEN HE DID
THE ON-LINE NOVELA THAT
STILL HAD A PUBLISHING
ELEMENT THIS IS NOTHING THIS
IS JUST STEPHEN KING AND YOU,
RIGHT.

The caption changes to "Dominic Patten. Journalist."
Dominic is in his twenties, clean-shaven with short curly brown hair.

He says STEPHEN KING.COM,
BASICALLY THE SAME AS IF YOU
HAD STEVE’S GHOULISH PHONE
NUMBER YOU COULD G TO HIM
DIRECTLY IT IS A DIRECT LINE
BETWEEN YOU THE READER AND
HIM THE WRITING.

Tina says SHOULD BIG
PUBLISHING BE SCARED.

Dominic says THEY SHOULD BE SCED OF
STEPHEN KINBECAUSE HE HAS
A LOT OF WEIGHT T TOW
AROUND.
YOND THAT THEY SHOULDN'T
BE SCARED FOR THE NEXT FE
YEARS B I WOU SAY AFT
FIVE YEARS THEY SHOULD BE
VERY SCARED BECAUSE THEIR
DAY IS DONE ITS SIMPLY
SOMEING THAT SO EVER FOR
THEM AND LIKE TELEVISION
NETWORKS HAVING TO SAMBLE
TO REGAIN AUDIENCES AND
MUSIC COMPANIES HAVING TO
SCRAMBLE TO RAIN BERS
THERE IS NOEAN WITH THE
PROLIFERATION OF THIS
TECHNOLOGY THAT YO SHOULD
HAVE TO GO AND SPEND 19 dollars,
THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE TO GO
TO A BOOK STORE AND BUY A
BOOK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.

Tina says LET'S TALK ABOUT
HOW IT ACTUALLY WORKS.
YOU SAY YOU WENT, WAS IT
EASY TO GET ON.

Cynthia says IT IS EASY TO GET ON BUT
NOT AS EASY AS PICKING A
BOOK OFF A BOOK SHELF WHICH
IS THE EASIEST THING ON THE
WORLD.
YOU HAVE TO BOOT UP YOUR
COMPUTER, TAKE OUT YOU
CREDIT CARD, FIND THE WEB
SITE, AND DOWNLOAD IT.
SO IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO
GET THIS KIND OF THING.

Dominic says IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO
GO TO THE BOOK STORE TOO.
YOU CAN DOHIS AT 3:00 IN
THE MORNING WHEREAS YOU
CAN'T GO TO INDIGO OR
CHAPTERS TO DO THAT.

Cynthia says I WILL TELL YOU I
DOWNLOADED THE CHAPTERS, I
WAS READING THEM.
IN THE MIDDLE OF READING
THEM MY COMPUTER CRASHES, I
HAVE TO GO BACK, BOOT THE
DAMN THING UP, PAY STEPHEN
KING ANOTHE DOLLAR TO GET
THE CHAPTER.

Dominic says YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE PAID
ANOTHER DOLLAR BECAUSE HE
WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN.

Cynthia says WELL, I DIDN'T.

Dominic says THERE YOU GO, CRIME ON TV.

Tina says WE NAILED HER.
BUT YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO PAY
AS YOU GO.
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.
HE SAYS WHAT WAS HIS
EXPRESSION, IF YOU PAY THE
STORY ROLLS, IF YOU DON'T
THE STORY FOLDS.
SO IT IS AN HONOUR SYSTEM.
YOU PAY HIM, KILL THE WRITING.
WH HAPPE IF YOU DON'T
PAY AND WILL PEOPLE PAY.

Dominic says PEOPLE WILL PAY AFTER A
WHILE AND STEPHEN KING
DOESN'T CARE.
SEE STEPH KING SAYS WILL
PU TWO INSTALLMENTS ON THE
NET AND HE DID.
AND THEN HE MADE THIS
THREAT.
NOW I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GOOD
STEPHEN KING FANS, THERE ARE
MILLIONS OF THEMO I GATHER
SOME ARE PUTTING MONEY DOWN.
ON THE WEB SITE THERE WAS A
THING ABOUT SOME PEOPLE WANT
TO PAY EXTRA TO HELP OUT FOR
THOSE THAT DIDN'T.
STEPHEN KING CHARITY
ORGANIZATION THIS IS.
BUT STEPHEN KING HAS GOT A
TON OF PRESS OUT OF THIS.
STEPHEN KING IS SELLING MORE
BOOKS NOW BECAUSE OF THIS.
SO MONEY HE IS NOT MAKING
OFF THE WEB HE IS MAKING OFF
THE SHELF.

Cynthia says BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO
SAY PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN
HONOURING STEPHEN KING'S
REQUEST TO PAY AS THEY GO
BECAUSE THEY DID AT FIRST,
JUST AS WITH WRITING A
BULLET, HE HAD ABOUT 100 percent.
AND THEN IT HAS BEEN LAW OF
DIMINISHING RETURN EVER
SINC
NOW WE ARE UP TO CHAPTER
FOUR AND HE IS THREATENING
NOT TO PUT IF ON.
I THINK IS SUPPOSED TO COME
OUT NEXT WEEK AND WE WILL
SEE HOW FAR HE GOES.
I DON'T THINK WE WILL GET
TEN CHAPTERS.

Tina says WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IT,
STEPHEN KING, IS YOU KNOW,
TO SAY HE IS WELL-KNOWN IS
TO UNDERSTATE IT BY A LE.
THIS WILL WORK FOR HIMINE,
MAYBE.
WHAT ABOUT OTHER WRITER3,
RELY NOBODY EL HAS THAT
KIND OF HYPE,.

Cynthia says THERE HAS BEEN SMALLER
WRITERS WHO HAVE TRIED IT
AND IT HASN'T WORKED SO
WELL.
DOUGLAS COOPER THE CANADIAN
AUTHOR IS VERY ANGRY BECAUSE
HE DID PUBLISH A NOVEL
ON-LINE BEFORE STEPHEN KING
DID AND NOBODY NOTICED IT
AND HE IS ANGRY ABOUT THIS
WHOLE THING.
BUT I THINK WILL WORK FOR
LITERARY AUTHORS IF IT WORKS
FOR THE BIG AUTHORS.
IF THEY CAN GET THE
ENCRYPTION DOWN, IF THEY CAN
PROTECT THIS INFORMATION.
I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
COMPUTERS SO I DON'T KNOW
HOW DIFFICULT OR EASY THAT
IS, THAN OLD BOOKS WILL END
UP BEING PUBLISHED THIS QUA
AND IT WILL BE ECONOMY OF
SCAL
YOU WILL JUST END UP BUYING
THE BOOKS THAT WAY.

Tina says WHAT HAPPENS TO THE
SMALL LITERARY QUOTE WRITERS
THEN, THEY JUST DISAPPEAR.

Cynthia says IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.
IF YOU HAD A STEPHEN KING
AND JK RULING AND TOM
CHANCEY DOING WHAT STEPHEN
KING IS DOING PUBLISHERS
WILL STOP LOPPING OFF THE
LITERARY AUTHORS AND SMALL
AUTHORS AND THAT WILL BE A
PROBLEM.
BUT I DON'T THINK OTHER
AUTHORS ARE LIKE STEPHEN
KING.
STEPHEN KING IS A SHOWMAN.
HE PLAYS IN A ROCK BAND, HE
IS AN EXTROVERT.
HE IS INTO THE NOVELTY OF
THIS SORT OF THING.
I DON'T THINK MOST WRITERS
ARE LIKE THAT I DON'T SEE JK
ROWLING GOING THIS ROUTE OR
TOM CHANCEY.

Dominic says BUT I DISAGREE, I THINK
THAT ACTUALLY SMALL WTERS,
SMALL SCALE AUTHORS CAN
BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THIS
CAUSE SEET A LEVEL
GROUND OF REALSTATE.
YOU KNOW, IN BOOK STORES WE
ALL KNOW THE WAY THE GAME
WORKS.
THE PUBLISHING COMPAES
MAKES SURE CERTAIN PEOPLE
GET HUGE WALLS BOOKS,
EYRE SEEN, A LOT OF
PRESS.
THIS IS AN IUE WHERE IF
YOU CAGET YOURSELF ON-LINE
THAN THE BALL IS IN YOUR
COURT.
NOT SOME PR FLUNKIE, SOME
BOOK STORE THAT ARE YOU
COMPETING AGAINST STEPHEN
KING BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IN
THE WORLD.
IF YOU WANTO BUILD
YOURSELF IN, CREATE
RETIONSHIPS WHERE YOU HAVE
LINKS WI LITERARY
MAGAZINES, LINKS WITH OTHER
THINGS, PEOPLE CAN COME TO
YOU, YOU KNOW --

Cynthia says THAN WHAT ARE PUBLISHERS
GOINTO BE OUT OF IT.
LIVING IN A WORLD WITHOUT
BIG PUBLISHERS.

Dominic says WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE IT,
LIKE WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE
NETWORK TV AND ALWAYS HAVE
VINYL BUT FOR THE MOST PART
IT HAS BECOME A SELLERS
MARKET AS WELL AS A BUYERS
MARKET AND IF YOU WANT TO BE
AGGRESSIVE ABOUT IT AND
PROMOTE YOURSELF, THE WEB IS
OFFERING YOU THAT.
IT IS LIKE SAYING BILLBOARDS
FOR FREE.
YOU WANT TO PUT SOMETHING ON
IT, YOU CAN BE SEEN.

Tina says BUT YOU WOULD READ
A BOOK ON-LINE.

Dominic says OF COURSE.

Tina says WOULD YOU, CYNTHIA.
I WOULDN'T.
I WOULD RATHER BE SHOT.

Cynthia says I DIDN'T LIKE READING --
HOLD ON -- I DIDN'T ENJOY
THE EXPERIENCE OF READING
THESE CHAPTERS ON-LINE
BECAUSE WELL A I HAVE A BOAT
ANCHOR OF A COMPUTER AND IT
CRASHED.
AND IT IS NOT VERY PORTABLE.
I WOULD ENJOY, I HAVEN'T HAD
THIS EXPERIENCE BUT I WOULD
ENJOY READING A BOOK ON WHAT
THEY CALL THESE SOFT READERS
OR ROCKET READERS, THEY ARE
READING DEVICES THAT LOOK
LIKE BOOKS.
IF HI ONE OF THOSE AND I
SUSPECT THAT IN THE FUTURE
MAYBE 20, 30 YEARS DOWN THE
LINE PEOPLE WILL BE READING
BACKS THAT WAY.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE
PLEASANT BECAUSE THE DEVICES
ARE PORTABLE.
BUT FOR NOW, THOSE DEVICES
ARE EXPENSIVE AND CAN'T
COMPETE WITH THESE READING
DEVICES WHICH ARE FREE,
HIGHLY PORTABLE AND COME IN
GLU BLUE, GREEN AND BROWN.

Dominic says I THINK 20 OR 30 MINUTES.
THE REASON I CAN READ THIS
STUFF ON-LINE AND I DON'T
THINK IT IS PTICULARLY
GENERATIONAL BUT IT MIGHTE
INCLATNAL.
I GO ON THE WEB ALL THE TIME
TO READ UFF.
READ NEWSPAPERS ON THE
WEB.
I DON'T VE A SUBSCRIPTION
TO THE “WASHINGTON POST” BUT
I READ ITLMOST EVERY
MORNING.
THESE THGS ARE SET UP LIKE
AT.
THEY ARE SET UP IN A
SCROLLING TENIQUE,
DIGESTIBLE BITS O
INFORMATN.
WILL YOU SIT AND READ WAR
AND PEACEN-LINE, PROBABLY
NOT BUT LIKE BUSINESS OF IT
THE WAY YOU ACTUALLY DO READ
A BOOK WHICH IS YOU PICK IT
UP AT NIGHT, READ A BIT HERE
AND THE ON THE SUBWAY, YES,
YOU PROBABLY WILL.

Cynthia says I AM NOT DISAGREEING.
I DON'T THINK NOW YOU CAN DO IT.

Dominic says I THINK PEOPLE ARE DOING IT NOW.

Cynthia says I THINK THEY ARE READING
NEWSPAPERS AND MKS BUT
NOVELS, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT.

Dominic says BUT WE ARE NOT REALLY
TALKING ABT NOVELS.
WH WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS
OLD-FASHIONED STYLE
SERIALIZATION, LIKE THIS IS
THE WAY DICKENS BECAME KNOWN,
THIS IS THE WAY THE SHADOW
BECAME KNOWN IN THE PULP
MAGAZINES OF THE '30s AND
THAT IS WHAT THESE ARE.

Cynthia says I DON'T LIKE THE WAY
BOOKS USED TO BE WRIEN
THAT WAY.
THERE ARE 400 PAGES ON
THE BATTLE OF WATERLOO.

Tina says WE WILL KNOW WHETHER
THERE IS A REAL REVOLUTION
EITHER IN FIVE YEARS OR IN
HALF AN HOUR, WE WILL KNOW
WHAT IS HAPPENING.
THANKS FOR coming IN.

The guests say THANK YOU

Next, fast clips show newspaper clippings of a man in his late fifties. Titles read “Reid guilty of attempted murder.”

Tina says IT HAS BEEN A
DIFFICULT YEAR FOR CANADIAN
WRITER SUSAN MUSGRAVE AND
STEPHEN REID.
LAST JUNE REID WAS CAUGHT
ROBBING A BANK.
HE WAS CONVICTED OF
ATTEMPTED MURDER AND
SENTENCED TO 18 YEARS IN PRISON.
THIS WAS A STRANGE CASE OF
DEJA VU FOR THE WRITER
COUPLE.
THEY HAD MET AND MARRIED
WHEN REID WAS SERVING TIME
FOR BANK ROBBERY IN 1986.
SMALL WONDER THAN THE PRISON
SCENE KEEPS CREEPING UP IN
MUSGRAVE'S BOOKS.
CARGO OF OR KIDS IS SUSAN
MUSGRAVE'S LATEST NOVEL.
SHE READ FROM IT DURING A
RECENT VISIT TO TORONTO.

A clip shows Susan addressing a small audience in a library.
She’s in her late forties, with long wavy blond hair. She’s wearing glasses and a loose gray blazer.

She says La Reina de la Cocaína IS
WHAT THEY CALLED ME AFTER MY ARREST.
THE COCAINE QUEEN.
THEY GAVE ME OTHER NAMES TOO,
THE MOTHER WITHOUT A HEART.
WHEN I TOLD ONE REPORTER I
WISHED HI BEEN CALLED
Oriana Fallaci A NAME THAT
SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE HAVING
SEX WITHOUT DOING IT, HE
SAID HE COUNT STAND WHY A
WOMAN LIKE ME WOULD WANT TO
CHANGE HER IDENTITY.
HE SAYS I SHOULDN'T TAKE IT
PERSONALLY WHAT THEY SAY
ABOUT ME IN THE PRESS.
THEY ALWAYS END UP BAD
MOUTHING MOTHERS WHO KILL
THEIR KIDS.

Now Tina interviews Susan in a restaurant.

Tina says SUSAN MUSGRAVE IS
WITH ME NOW, HI, SUSAN.

Susan says HI.

Tina says THIS IS A BOOK THAT
HAS AS ITS NAR ATER A WOMAN
WHO IS CONVICTED OF KILLING
HER WILD WHICH HAS TO BE
ABOUT THE MOST UNSYMPATHETIC
CHARACTER GOING.
WHY DID YOU TAKE THAT ON
ABOUT WRITING ABOUT A
POTENTIALLY COMPLICATED TO
SAY THE LEAST CHARACTER LIKE
THIS.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Susan Musgrave. Cargo of orchids."

Susan says I DIDN'T FIND HER
UNSYMPATHETIC.
I FOUND -- I GUESS WHAT I'M
INTERESTED IN DOING IS
TRYING TO IMAGINE THE
UNIMAGINABLE.
AND FOR ME IT IS NOT
SOMETHING I CAN POSSIBLY
IMAGINE, KILLING YOUR OWN
CHILD.
I THINK THERE ARE OTHER WAYS
OUT.
OBVIOUSLY ARE YOU NOT THE --
THE RIGHT MIND IS NOT AT
WORK BECAUSE MOST OF US
DON'T WHILE HAVING A BAD DAY
WITH OUR KIDS, WE DON'T
DISPOSE OF THEM IN A FINAL
SOLUTION KIND OF WAY.
THERE ARE NO EXCUSES FOR IT
BUT THERE ARE FACTORS WHICH
TRY AND EXPLAIN HUMAN
BEHAVIOUR.
AND I THINK THE BOOK IS A
KIND OF EXPLORATION OF THE
HEART AS WELL AS A KIND OF
MYSTERY SUSPENSE NOVEL, NOT
EXACTLY MYSTERY BUT THERE IS
A PLOT SO I HOPE THE READER
WANTS TO KEEP READING BUT
ALSO THE CHARACTER IS TRYING
TO FIND OUT SOMETHING ABOUT
HERSELF.
SHE IS LITERALLY UNNAMED
BECAUSE IT IS A KIND PROVE
SES OF HER TRYING TO ERASE
HER OWN PERSONALITY
THROUGHOUT THE BOOK.

Tina says ONE OF THE
INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THE
UNNAMED CHARACTER IS WHEN
YOU LOOK AT HER LIFE, HER
LIFE HAS NOT TURNED OUT AT
ALL THE WAY SHE EXPECTED IT
WOULD AND IS, IN FACT,
ALMOST NOBODY'S LIFE TURNS
OUT THE WAY THEY EXPECT IT
WOULD BUT WHEN SHE FIRST
START GOING TO PRISON SHE
VISITS WITH THESE PEOPLE
HANGING OUT WITH UNSAVORY
PEOPLE.
THEY ARE PART OF THE
UNDERWORLD.
SHE KNOWS SHE IS IN TROUBLE.
WHY DOESN'T SHE KNOW THIS IS
DANGEROUS TURF SHE IS ON.

Susan says I THINK IT HAS A LOT TO
DO WITH MY LIFE, MY OWN
PERSONALITY.

Tina says IS IT THE THRILL OF
THE DANGER.

Susan says I DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
I DIDN'T CONSCIOUSLY THINK I
WANTED DANGER.
I JUST WAS DRAWN TO THAT.
I DON'T KNOW WHY.
I'M NOT A PSYCHOLOGIST.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHY I DO
WHAT I DO.
SO FOR ME IT IS
UNDERSTANDABLE AS A
CHARACTER, SHE WAS
DISSATISFIED, FOR ONE THING
HER HUSBAND IS A COMPLETE
WOMANIZER AND BRINGING YOUNG
WOMEN HOME.
SO SHE DOES LEAVE AND MOVES
OUT INTO HER OWN APARTMENT.
AND THEN BECAUSE SHE IS A
TRANSLATOR GETS INVOLVE
READY, WHAT IS IT, THE
BROTHERS OF THE WOMAN WHOSE
BOOK SHE IS TRANSLATING FROM
SPANISH INTO ENGLISH ARE
ARRESTED IN A BIG DRUG DEAL.
IT TIES IN THAT SHE WOULD
BECOME INTERESTED TO THE
PEOPLE.
SHE IS ATTRACTED PHYSICALLY
TO ANGEL.

Tina says OH, SHE IS ATTRACTED VERY,
VERY LITERALLY TO ANGEL AND
HE OF COURSE SHE GOES TO
PRISON, STARTS VISITING HIM
THERE, FALSE MADLY IN LOVE
WITH HIM AND FOR ANYBODY WHO
IS A READER OF YOURS THIS
WILL RESONATE BECAUSE OF
YOUR STORY OF GOING AND
FALLING IN LOVE WITH YOUR
HUSBAND STEPHEN REID IN
PRISON.
DID YOU DRAW ON THAT
EXPERIENCE.

Susan says UNFORTUNATELY, I WAS
DRAWING ON WHAT I HOPED WAS
OLD EXPERIENCE FROM THE '80s
WHEN I MET STEPHEN.
AND I THOUGHT BOOKS OFTEN
ARE AN EXORCISM OF A TIME OF
LIFE.
WE LIVED TOGETHER OUT HERE
IN THE FREE WORLD, OR ON
THIS SIDE OF THE WALL FOR 13
YEARS TOGETHER.
AND I FINISHED THE BOOK, THE
10th DRAFT A WEEK BEFORE HE
WAS ARRESTED IN 1999.
PART OF ME THOUGHT OH, NO, I
THOUGHT THAT CHAPTER OF MY
LIFE WAS OVER.
I HAVE DONE THAT.
I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT IT.
I FINISHED A NOVEL ABOUT
PRISON.
I DON'T WANT ANY MORE.
LIFE DOESN'T ALWAYS TURN OUT
THE WAY YOU EXPECT.
HERE IS ANOTHER CHAPTER,
ANOTHER TAKE, ANOTHER --
SOMETHING ISN'T COMPLETED
YET.
I TRY AND LOOK AT IT IN A
BROADER SENSE.
I GUESS I STILL HAVE
SOMETHING TO LEARN.
AND SO I THOUGHT I HAD
FINISHED WITH THAT PART OF
MY LIFE.
AND YES, WELL FOR THE FIRST
MAYBE FIVE OR SIX CHAPTERS
THE WOMAN IS VISITING WITH A
MAN INSIDE WERE BASED ON
VISITING STEPHEN AND THEN MY
VERY NAIVE UNDERSTANDING OF
PRISON AT THE TIME I DIDN'T
HAVE EXPERIENCE OF VISITING
IN A MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON
SO IT WAS ALL KNEW TO ME.
RULES ARE DIFFICULT.
I DON'T LIKE THEM.
I LEARNED YOU NEVER ASK WHY
BECAUSE THEY WILL JUST SAY
IT IS POLICY SO YOU HAVE TO
KIND OF BE ACCEPTING IN A
WAY THAT ALSO -- AND
UNDERSTANDING HELPS BECAUSE
YOU DRIVE YOURSELF CRAZY
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY YOU
CAN'T -- WHY THEY MAKE YOU
TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF BUT NOT
YOUR SOCKS.
I SAY OKAY I HAVE TAKEN MY
SHOES OFF DON'T YOU WANT ME
TO TAKE MY SOCKS OFF.
NO, TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF,
SHAKE THEM.

Tina says YOU TALK A A LOT
ABOUT PRISON.
YOU QUOTE -- THE MINUTE ARE
YOU PUT IN PRISON YOUR LIFE
AS YOU KNOW IT STOPS.

Susan says THE USE OF YOUR LIFE YOU
HAVE TO FIND OUT -- A NEW
QUA I OF COPING.
THERE IS CONJUGAL
VISITS, CONJUGAL JUNGLE VISITS.
NOT ABOUT HAVING SEX BUT
INTIMACY AND RECONNECTING.
THE FIRST NIGHT I WAS
PUTTING PILLOWCASES ON THE
BED AND I THOUGHT WHY ARE
THESE ALL WATERMARKED.
NOW I TAKE MY OWN PRIL
PILLOW, I JUSTED CRYING.
YOUR PARTNER FOR 13 YEARS
YOU CAN SIT AND HOLD.
YOU DON'T EVEN WANT
SOMETHING, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR
HIM BUT SEEING THAT WE BOTH
WANTED WAS TERRIFYING
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GET TO
KNOW EACH OTHER AGAIN.
SO WE ALWAYS HAVE LEARNED AN
AMAZING KIND, A NEW KIND OF
INTIMACY WHICH WE DIDN'T
EVEN HAVE FOR 13 YEARS WHICH
IS A REALLY DEEP CARING
HAVING COME THROUGH ALL
THIS.

Tina says SO SIX YEARS BEFORE
PAROLE.

Susan says BEFORE HE CAN APPLY.

Tina says IT WAS AN 18 YEAR
SENTENCE.
SO WHAT SUSTAINS HIM, DO YOU
THINK.

Susan says FAMILY AND WRITING RIGHT NOW.
HE IS DOING SOME NATIVE
SPIRITUALITY.
HE GOES THROUGH SWEATS AND
HE IS -- IT IS HARD.
A LOT OF DAYS HE SAYS HE
LOST HIMSELF IN HIS CELL AND
STAIRS AT THE WALL AND
GUARDS COME OUT, ARE YOU
OKAY, STEVE, PRISONERS ARE
TRYING TO GET HIM TO COME
OUT.
HE JUST CAN'T.
HE IS 50 YEARS OLD AND SAYS
WHAT HAVE I DONE WITH MY
LIFE.
I SAY NO USE TALKING LIKE
THAT, WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO
WITH YOUR LIFE THIS IS YOUR
LIFE NOW, MAKE THE BEST OF
IT IN THERE.
WE BOTH KNOW THAT BUT THERE
ARE DAYS WHEN YOU CAN'T.

Tina says ON THE TOPIC OF PRISON
AND CRIMINALS YOU SAY IN THE
BOOK THAT THE CRIMINALS LACK
A PERSON FOR SOCIETY TO
DEMONIZE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN.

Susan says WHEN I WAS GROWING UP
EVERYBODY WAS A RACIST AND
NOW PEOPLE CAN'T BE RACIST
ANY MORE.
WELL, YOU CAN BE, I'M SURE
BUT IN THE MILIEU I'M IN
PEOPLE AREN'T.
AND POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
AND FAIRNESS AND YOU KNOW,
DOING THE RIGHT THING.
BUT WE ALL HAVE TO HATE
SOMEBODY.
SO GUESS WHO IT IS, IT IS
THE CRIMINALS BECAUSE THEY
CAN'T FIGHT BACK.
THEY DON'T HAVE A VOICE.
THEY DON'T HAVE A UNION.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO LOOK DOWN
AT SOMEBODY, I GUESS.
SOME PEOPLE SEEM TO NEED TO
MORE THAN OTHERS.
AND SOME PEOPLE ARE
INDEFENSIBLE.
FACE IT LOOKING AT KARLA
HOMOLKA IN HER BLACK EVENING
GOWN EVEN I -- HOW COME SHE
GETS AN EVENING DRESS IN
PRISON.
I MEAN STEPHEN DOESN'T GET A
DINNER JACKET.
WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.
SO AGAIN WE ARE -- TREATED
DIFFERENTLY.
AND IF HE IT DOES MAKE
YOU -- PLUS YOU GOT A LONGER
SENTENCE THAT KARLA HOMOLKA
AND SO YOU KNOW, GOING INTO
A BANK WITH A GUN IS PRETTY
BAD BUT FOR ME DISMEMBERING
CHILDREN AFTER HAVING SEX
WITH THEM IS WORSE.
AND WHY WE CAN JUSTIFY A 12
YEAR SENTENCE FOR THAT AND
18 FOR STEPHEN, I KNOW THAT
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T COMPARE
THINGS AND THERE WAS A DEAL
BUT OF COURSE THIS IS WHAT
REALLY ANGERS CANADIAN IS A
DEAL.
SOME PEOPLE SAY SHE SHOULD
BE SUFFERING.
I REALLY DO BELIEVE BEING IN
PRISON IS SUFFERING AFTER MY
THREE DAY FAMILY VISITS THE
THREE DAYS I'M NOT CLIMBING
THE RASSER WIRE BUT I'M
THINKING, I WOULD LIKE TO
SEE A VIEW, A GARDEN, SOME
ART ON THE WALL.

Tina says SO YOU CAN'T STAND
THAT CONTAINMENT.

Susan says I'M NOT THERE FOREVER.
MAYBE IF I WAS THERE FOREVER
I WOULD GET USED TO IT THREE
DAYS AS MUCH AS I LOVE
LOOKING AT MY HUSBAND I
START THINKING I JUST WANT
TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THE
STORE.
AND I GUESS YOU GET -- I'M
THREE DAYS I STOOD BEFORE A
DOOR WAITING FOR IT TO POP
OPEN BECAUSE THE DOORS MOST
OF THEM THERE ARE LOCKED.
AND I THOUGHT I AM
INSTITUTIONALIZED AFTER
THREE DAYS, WAITING FOR A
DOOR TO OPEN.
OOPS, HOW QUICK THAT
HAPPENS WHERE THINGS ARE
BEING DONE FOR YOU.

Tina says YOU KNOW, THERE IS
A QUOTE IN YOUR BOOK THAT I
FOUND JUST ALMOST MADE ME
CRY AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE
I GET IT RIGHT HERE.
YOU HAVE SAY IN THIS WORLD
THERE IS AN UNDING SUPPLY
OF SORROW AND THE HEART IS
ALWAYS TO MAKE ROOM FOR
MORE.
WHICH JUST IS SUC A BLEAK,
BLEAK SAD THING.
SURELY THERE IS ROOM FOR
HAPPINESS AND GOOD TIMES AND
OPTIMISM, ISN'T THERE.

Susan says I SPEND A LOT OF TIME
BEING REALLY HAPPY.
IF I DIDN'T I DON'T THINK
WHICH WOULD BE HERE ALMOST
AT THE AGE OF 50 TO SAY
THAT.
IF I WAS AS BLEAK AS SOME OF
THE SCENARIOS I PRESENT.
I GUESS I'M VERY AFFECTED BY
HEARING ABOUT THINGS LIKE A
KID LYING IN A GRAVE WITH A
DEAD DOG FOR SIX DAYS.
I THINK HOW YOU COULD
SURVIVE THAT IF YOU -- YOU
WOULD PROBABLY GIVE UP AND
DIE, IF YOU WEREN'T YOU
WOULD BECOME VICIOUS AND GO
OUT AND KILL PEOPLE AND GO
TO JAIL.
WHICH IS WHAT WE HAVE.
A PRISON FULL OF PEOPLE WHO
HAVE BEEN HURT AND HURT
BACK.
AND SO I GET REALLY AFFECTED
AND UP SET BY THOSE IMAGES.
BUT I LOOK AT MY KIDS AND I
THINK THEY ARE GOING TO GROW
UP TO RESENT ME BECAUSE ONCE
I LEFT THEM WAY THANNY WHO
WOULDN'T GIVE THEM WITH A
GLASS OF MILK BEFORE BED,
AND THEY NEVER FORGET.

Tina says REMEMBER THAT TIME YOU
WENT AWAY.

Susan says SO WE ALL HAVE OUR
SARAJEVO.

Tina says HOW ARE YOUR DAUGHTERS
DOING.

Susan says THEY ARE DOING BETTER ALL
THE TIME.
IT WAS PRETTY ROUGH SIX MONTHS.
ONCE WE GOT THROUGH THE
ANNIVERSARIES OF CHRISTMAS
AND FATHER DAYS, SOMETIMES
WE START CRYING AT BEDTIME,
HOW MUCH SHE MISSES DAD.
AND THAT IS HARD FOR ME
BECAUSE IT IS THEIR -- ME, I
AM AN ADULT, I GUESS.
AND THEY ARE NOT.
THEY ARE REALLY THE VICTIMS
IN IT.
IT IS UNFAIR THAT HER DAD --
BUT WHAT DO YOU DO.
IT IS THE WAY IT HAS TO BE.

Tina says I WANT TO ASK YOU
ONE LAST QUESTION.
IT CALLED CARGO OF OR I HADS
CAN, THERE ARE BEAUTIFUL
LUSH FLOWERS WITH ENORMOUS
SENSUAL SMELLS AND
FRAGRANCES ALL THROUGH THE BOOK.
ARE YOU A LOVER OF OR KIDS.

Susan says WHEN I STARTED READING
ABOUT THEM AND HOW
TREACHEROUS THEY ARE, THEY
IMITATE THE GENITALIA OF
INSECRETARIES TO LURE THEM
IN AND SOME OF THEM GET YOU
ADDICTED.
THEY ADDICT YOU BY THE SMELL
T IS ALMOST LIKE A DRUG.
SO THEY ARE A DANGEROUS
FLOWER.

Tina says THEY ARE DANGEROUS.

Susan says AND THEY CAN DISGUISE
THEMSELVES.
THEY ARE CLEVER.

Tina says AND THEY ARE RISK-TAKERS.
YOU WON'T FIND THEM IN PRISON.
NO OR KIDS GROW HERE?
IT HAS BEEN LOVELY TALKING
TO YOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Susan says THANK YOU.

Back in the studio, the book cover appears briefly. It features a close-up picture of a white orchid.

Tina says CARGO OF Orchids BY
SUSAN MUSGRAVE IS PUBLISHED
BY KNOPFF, CANADA.
THAT IS OUR SHOW FOR THIS WEEK.
COME BAB NEXT TIME AND MEET
THE SCOTTISH THRILLER WRITER
VAL McDER HIT, NEXT WEEK ON.”

Theme music plays as the end credits roll.

Special thanks, Acrobat Lounge, Dora Keogh Pub, University of Toronto Bookstore.

Imprint. C/O TVOntario. P.O. Box 200. Station Q, Toronto, Ontario. M4T 2T1.

Fax: 416-484-2780.

E-mail: imprint@tvo.org.

Website: www.tvo.org/imprint

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2000, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Imprint season 12 episode 4