Transcript: Food Safety | Mar 01, 2001

(music plays)
The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: “More to life.”

Then, Maureen Taylor appears in a studio with yellow walls and a small TV set in the background, which reads “More to life.”

Maureen is in her late thirties, with wavy auburn hair in a bob. She's wearing a pink and red cardigan over a matching shirt, and a thin pearl necklace.

She says GOOD AFTERNOON
AND WELCOME TO.
I'M MAUREEN TAYLOR.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S LURKING
IN YOUR GROCERY BAG?
CAN'T PICK UP THE PAPER
THESE DAYS WITHOUT READING
ABOUT A RECENT SALMONELLA
OUTBREAK, E. COLI
CONTAMINATION OR MAD COW
DISEASE.
AND YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT
BRITISH BEEF LAMB AND PORK
FOR A LONG, LONG TIME NOW
THAT WE HAVE FOOT IN MOUTH
DISEASE IN THAT COUNTRY.
ARE YOUING YOUR LIFE AT RISK
SIMPLY BY BI WHAT YOU SNEET
TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU SHOULD
WATCH FOR AT MEAL TIME, WE
HAVE FOOD SAFETY SPIRIT
PROFESSOR DOUG POWELL HERE
FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH.

Doug is in his thirties, with long wavy ash blond hair and a stubble. He’s wearing an informal green shirt with the sleeves rolled up.

Maureen continues IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT
THE SAFETY OF THE PRODUCE AT
YOUR LOCAL MARKET OR THAT
HAMBURGER AT THE FAST GOOD
JOINT, GIVE US A CALL.

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
Then, it changes to "moretolife@tvo.org"

Maureen looks at Doug and says
YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE A PROFESSOR.

Doug says Dr. POWELL
TO YOU!

(LAUGHING)

Maureen says LET'S TALK ABOUT
INTO THE MOUTH DISEASE, EVEN
THOUGH I UNDERSTAND THIS IS
NOT A THREAT TO HUMAN HEALTH.

The caption changes to "Doug Powell. Food Safety Expert."

Doug says NO, BUT IT
IS A DEVASTATING AFFECT TO
THE ANIMAL POPULATION AND
THAT'S WHY THEY ARE NOW
SLAUGHTERING TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS NOT
ONLY IN THE UK BUT
THROUGHOUT EUROPE.
AS OF THIS MORNING, THEY HAD
CASES NOW TRACKED IN WALES
IN SCOTLAND AND EVEN
NORTHERN IRELAND.
IT'S A BAD THING -- IT'S
VERY INFECTIOUS, AND WE CAN
TALK ABOUT THE FANCY THINGS
ABOUT MAD COW DISEASE OR
GENETIC ENGINEERING BUT THE
REAL MEAT AND POTATOES, TO
USE A BAD PUN OF INFECT SHUS
DISEASE ARE THESE SORT OF
MUNDANE DISEASES AND THAT'S
WHY WE NEED TO HAVE A STRONG
VETERINARY INFRASTRUCTURE
FOR PEOPLE TO LOOK OUT FOR
THESE DISEASES AND IN NORTH
AMERICA WE HAVE THAT AND
THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE
HAVE NOT HAD THESE BIG SORT
OF CATASTROPHIC OUTBREAKS
THE REST OF THE WORLD'S HAD
IN THE LAST SAY 50 YEARS.

Maureen says YEAH, THE LAST
OUTBREAK OF FOOT IN MOUTH
DISEASE IN CANADA WAS IN
SASKATCHEWAN IN THE 50s, WAS
IT IN SN.

Doug says THAT'S RIGHT, NOW IT'S
DIFFERENT GEOGRAPHY,
THEY'RE A MUCH SMALLER PLACE
IN THE UK AND IT'S EASIER TO
TRANSMIT BUT VETERINARY
OFFICIALS IN CANADA THE U.S.
AND MEXICO JUST A FEW MONTHS
AGO HAD A SIMULATION FOR
LET'S SAY A INTO THE MOUTH
DISEASE OUT BREAK, AND THEY
PREDICTED IT WOULD START IN
TEXTS AND A THAT COMPUTER
SIMULATION, AND DID A WHOLE
EMERGENCY RESPONSE TRAINING
THING AND THAT'S THE KIND OF
INFRASTRUCTURE WE NEED AND
THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE IN
PLACE TO HELP WITH THESE
THINGS.

Maureen says SO YOU'RE SAYING DISEASES
LIKE THIS COULD BE SPOTTED
AT THE FARM LEVEL IF THEY
HAD VETERINARIANS LOOKING FOR
IT MORE FREQUENTLY?

Doug says WELL, YOU HAVE TO RELY ON
THE FARMERS LOOKING AT IT
BUT THE VETS ARE AT THE
SLAUGHTER HOUSES WHERE THEY
ARE LOOKING AT THE ANIMALS
COMING IN AND YES, THEY ARE
TRAINED TO INSPECT THOSE
SORTS OF THINGS AND TO
IDENTIFY THOSE SORTS OF
THINGS.

Maureen says HOW DO YOU RATE
CANADA'S -- LET'S TALK ABOUT
MEAT INFORMATION CRITERIA.

Doug says QUITE GOOD.
WE DO HAVE THAT VETERINARY
INFRASTRUCTURE.
NOW IT'S NOT ACROSS THE
BOARD.
ANY MEAT SOLD FOR PROVINCIAL
EXPORT OR EXPORT TO SAY THE
UNITED STATES THAT
INSPECTION HAS TO BE
SUPERVISED BY A VETERINARIAN.
HOWEVER A LOT OF THE MEAT WE
CONSUME MAY ONLY BE FOR
PROVINCIAL AND THAT DOES NOT
HAVE TO BE SEEN BY A VETERINARIAN
AND THERE'S A BIT OF
CONTENTION.
ONE OF THE REASONS A FOOD
INSPECTION AGENCY WAS
CREATED WAS TO HARMONIZE
THOSE REGULATIONS.
SOME PROVINCES HAVE MEAT
INSPECTION, SOME DON'T.

Maureen says WHY IS THIS
IMPORTANT FOR OUR HEALTH AND
SAFETY?
I MEAN, THEY'RE LOOKING --
E. COLI IS SOMETHING I
ASSOCIATE WITH HAMBURGER,
BUT YOU CAN'T SEE IT, CAN YOU?

Doug says WELL THAT'S TRUE.
MEAT INFORMATION CAME ABOUT,
YOU PROBABLY HEARD ABOUT UPTON
SINCLAIR'S BOOK “THE JUNGLE.”
PUBLISHED IN 1906 AND
DOCUMENTED THE CONDITIONS IN
THE CHICAGO SLAUGHTER HOUSE,
THAT LED TO THE FIRST MEAT
INSPECTION LEGISLATION IN
THE U.S.
CANADA WAS RIGHT THERE AT
THE SAME TIME.
AND IN THE OLD DAY, IT WAS
SORT OF THESE GROSS THING,
YOU KNOW, BOILS, LIKE FOOT
IN MOUTH IT.
HAS BLISTERS THAT YOU CAN
SEE AND VISUALLY INSPECT.
NOW THESE DAYS MANY OF THE
PATHOGENS WE WORRY ABOUT ARE
MICROBIAL AND THAT'S WHY WE
HAVE MEDIA ACCOUNTS SAYING
THE GOVERNMENT'S NOT DOING
THIS AND THAT AND THAT'S
BECAUSE A LOT OF THE MICRO
TESTING IS BEING DONE BY THE
COMPANIES THEMSELVES BUT
IT'S BEING AUDITED AND OVER
SEEN BY A VETERINARIAN.
SO IT'S THOSE ACCOMMODATIONS
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.
WE NEED TO MOVE TO MORE
MICRO BIOLOGICAL TESTING
BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE
PROBLEMS ARE.

Maureen says LET'S TALK ABOUT
HAMBURGER THEN.

Doug says OKAY.

Maureen says DO YOU eat beef?

Doug says ABSOLUTELY.

Maureen says DO YOU FEEL SAFE
EATING IT AND IF YOU DO WHY?

Doug says FOR THE MOST
PART, YES.
BUT YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.
RAW HAMBURGER -- ANY RAW
MEAT PRODUCT IS GOING TO
CONTAIN MICRO ORGANISMS AND
ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL.
AGAIN IT'S A MATTER OF RISKS
AND BENEFITS AND WEIGHING
THOSE.
WHEN YOU'RE IN YOUR KITCHEN
YOU GOT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT
CROSS CONTAMINATION.
YOU HAVE TO BE DIFL COOK IT
THOROUGHLY, AND I THINK
GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF MEDIA
COVERAGE EVER SINCE SAY THE
JACK-IN-THE-BOX OUT GLEAK
1993, WE HAVE A MUCH, MUCH
HIGHER AWARENESS NOW OF THE
NEED YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ALWAYS
KNEW TO COOK CHICKEN.
HAMBURGER, THEY'D SAY WEFD A
BEEF CULTURE.

Maureen says I LIKE IT MEDIUM
RARE.

Doug says I'M A MACHO GUY, THAINT
PINK BURGER.
WE'VE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THAT
NOW.
I MEAN IT TASTES GOOD, LOTS
OF NUTRIENTS --

Maureen says IN HAMBURGER?.

Doug says OH, ABSOLUTELY.
GOOD PROTEIN SOURCE, SURE.
NOW THEY SAY -- I MEAN,
EVERY PRODUCER GROUP HAS
U.S. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE
FINDING INGREDIENTS AND IN
HAMBURGER IT'S CALLED CLA,
KONG GAIT LIMD NOLIC ACID,
INMENT TO MATE TOES IT'S
LICOPINE, TAKE YOUR PICK.

Maureen says I HAVE RECENTLY
READ AN ARTICLE ABOUT
HAMBURGER, TALKING ABOUT HOW
IT'S MADE AND I'M TELLING
YOU, WHEN YOU READ THIS
THING AND BREAK IT DOWN --
YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T EVER
EAT ONE AGAIN IF YOU READ IN
THE COURSE OF TAKING THE
HIDE OFF THE COW AND --

Doug says I'VE BEEN IN
SLAUGHTER HOUSES.
MY WIFE WORKS ON AND OFF AS
A VETERINARIAN INSPECTOR IN
SLAUGHTER HOUSES, OURP KIDS
HAVE BEEN IN SLAUGHTER
HOUSES.
THIS ISN'T THE GRUESOME
FAMILY HERE, BUT THE POINT
IS THAT'S HOW MEAT, HOW WE
GET MEAT.
AND THE BOOK YOU'RE
REFERRING TO WHICH IS CALLED
“FAST FOOD NATION” AND WHICH
I'VE READ, I WOULD ARGUE
HIGHLY SENSATIONALIZES
CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE
SLAUGHTER PROCEDURE.

Maureen says GOOD!
BECAUSE THAT -- I'LL
PROBABLY STILL EAT HAMBURGER,
BUT NOT AS OFTEN MAYBE.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOOD
SAFETY AND WE SHOULD GET
INTO PRODUCE AS WELL.
SOME OF THE THINGS DOUG
POWELL HAS TO TELL YOU ABOUT
THAT MAY SURPRISE YOU BUT
IT'S ALL ABOUT KEEPING YOUR
FAMILY SAFE AND WHAT YOU CAN
DO IN THE KITCHEN AND WHAT
WE CAN PUSH FOR AS FAR AS
GOFT INSPECTION AS WELL
CHACHLT WOULD YOU LIKE TO
KNOW ABOUT FOOD SAFETY?
GIVE US A CALL.

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Maureen continues WE'LL GO TO JOHN FIRST IN
HATWA.
HI JOHN.

The Caller says GOOD AFTERNOON.

Maureen says HELLO.

The Caller says I'D LIKE THE
GUEST TO ADDRESS THE
FOLLOWING QUESTION THAT, IS
COULD HE COMMENT, PLEASE, ON
THE CHEMICALS THAT ARE BEING
GIVEN TO YOUNG CHICKEN,
YOUNG KRK KEY AS THEY'RE
BEING RAISED ON THESE LARGER
FARMS AND AS WELL TO COMMENT
ON THE CHEMICALS BEING GIVEN
TO FARMED SALMON, THE EFFECT
ON HUMANS AND SO FORTH.
AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO KNOW
HOW SIGNIFICANT IS THE
INSPECTION OF THE ACTUAL
DOSAGES THAT ARE GOING IN
THERE?
I UNDERSTAND IN SOME CASE
THIS IS MAY BE VERY LOOSELY
CONTROLLED.

Maureen says OKAY.

Doug says OKAY, I
BELIEVE THE CALLER'S
REFERRING TO SAY MEDICATED
FEEDS.
WHAT'S BEEN DISCOVERED IN
NORTH AMERICA IS AFTER WORLD
WAR II, ANTIBIOTICS WERE
DISCOVERED AND THEY OBSERVED
THAT WHEN GIVEN TO ANIMALS
IN VERY LOW DOSES, IT HELPED
ACCELERATE THE GROWTH OF
THOSE ANIMALS.
THEY THINK IT MIGHT HELP
THEM EITHER WARD OFF DISEASE
OR PARTITION NUTRIENTS MORE
EFFECTIVELY OR WHATEVER SO
IN SOME SPECIES LIKE
CHICKENS -- THERE'S A LIMIT.
IT DEPENDS ON WHO'S GROWING
IT AND WHERE BUT THERE IS A
LIMITED AMOUNT OF IT THAT
GOES ON, ANTIBIOTICS GIVEN
IN THE FEED TO CONTROL
DISEASE AND TO HELP THEM
GROW AND TO KEEP THEM
HEALTHY.
NOW OF COURSE ANTIBIOTIC
RESISTANCE IS A SIGNIFICANT
PUBLIC HEALTH THREAT AND
THERE'S BOTH THE MEDICAL
COMMUNITY DROX THAT AND THE
ANIMAL AGRICULTURE AND
THERE'S A DIFFERENT IN
ANIMAL AGRICULTURE BETWEEN
THERAPEUTIC, THAT IS
TREATING DISEASE AND THE
SUB-THERAPEUTIC USE.
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT
THIS SUB-THERAPEUTIC USE FOR
A LONG TIME PREDICTING THAT
RESISTANCE WOULD HAPPEN, AND
IT HAS HERE AND THERE.
AND THE PRODUCERS THEMSELVES
HAVE BEEN CUTTING BACK
SIGNIFICANTLY.
AND PUTTING IN PLACE
PROGRAMMES TO REDUCE THE
RELIANCE ON THOSE
ANTIBIOTICS TO RAISE THE
FOOD IN THE -- IT'S PART OF
AN EFFICIENT FOOD PRODUCTION
SYSTEM, IS WHAT IT IS, IN
BOTH FISH AND CHICKENS.

Maureen says YOU SEEM TO BE
SAYING, IF I CAN JUST
TRANSLATES THAT IT HELPS
THEM GROW FASTER, THEREFORE
THEY CAN GET THAT ANIMAL TO
MARKET FASTER.

Doug says YEAH.
IT'S PART OF VICIOUS SEE.
I MEAN, WE HAVE A HIGHLY
INTEGRATED EFFICIENT FOOD
PRODUCTION SYSTEM IN NORTH
AMERICA.
AND THAT'S WHY OUR FOOD IS
RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE.
IS THE USE OF THESE THINGS.
AND WITH ANY OF THESE
TECHNOLOGY, WHETHER IT'S AN
ANTIBIOTIC OR SOME OTHER
GROWTH HORMONE THAT'S SAY
MAYBE USED IN CATTLE, IT'S A
CHALLENGE TO EXTRACT
WHATEVER BENEFITS THOSE
THINGS CAN GET, WHAT TIME AT
THE SAME TIME MINIMIZING THE
RISKS.

Maureen says DO YOU BELIEVE
THERE ARE ANY RISKS TO
HUMANS FROM US INGESTING
THESE ANTIBIOTICS THAT --
THE CHICKENS FIRST INGESTED
WHEN THEY WERE ALIVE?

Doug says THERE ARE WITHDRAWAL
TIMES FOR THOSE ANTIBIOTICS,
AND IT'S ALL VERY -- IT IS
HIGHLY REGULATED AND
CONTROLLED SO THAT THE RISK
IS EXTREMELY MINIMAL IN
TERMS OF HUMAN HEALTH.
THE RISK HERE IS THE
DEVELOPMENT OF ANTIBIOTIC
RESISTANT MICRO ORGANISMS,
AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S
ALWAYS A NEED TO REDUCE THE
USE TO FURTHER REDUCE.

Maureen says GOOD QUESTION.
THANK YOU, JOHN.
AN E-MAIL FROM AN AN NACHLT
TWO QUESTIONS.
MANY RESTAURANTS ARE SERVING
ORGANIC GREENS AND IT SEEMS
TO BE THE FRIEND THESE DAYS.
I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT
IT MYSELF BECAUSE I'M NOT
SURE OF WHAT ORGANIC
MATERIAL HAS REMAINED ON THE
GREENS AND ALSO SLUDGE FROM
HUMAN WASTE IS USED ON
FIELDS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
AND NUMBER TWO, IS BEEF IN
CANADA SAFE AND HAVE THERE
BEEN ANY INCIDENTS OF MAD
COW DISEASE HERE THAT THE
PUBLIC MAYBE UNAWARE OF?

Doug says YOU DO HAVE
AN HOUR, RIGHT?

Maureen says YEAH, WE HAVE AN HOUR.

Doug chuckles and says OKAY, THE
ORGANICS AND THE ORGANIC
GREENS, YES.
BIG TREND.
ORGANIC SALES HAVE INCREASED
ABOUT 10 percent A YEAR.
NOW IT'S STALE VERY SMALL
PORTION OF THE OVERALL FOOD
DOLLAR SPENT, BUT IT IS A
TREND.
AND THERE IS THIS LARGE
PUBLIC CONTROVERSY THAT'S
BEEN GOING ON THE LAST FEW
YEARS IS ORGANIC SAFER AND
BETTER FOR YOU VERSUS
CONVENTIONAL?
LOTS OF FOLKS LOOKED AT
WHAT'S AVAILABLE SO FAR.
NUTRIENT SIDE, HEALTH SIDE,
THEY'RE THE SAME IT.
HAS MORE TO DO WITH SOIL
CONDITIONS, WHETHER IT'S
ORGANIC AND CONVENTIONAL.
ORGANIC, I THINK AGAIN IT
GOES BACK TO WHAT ARE THE
BENEFITS AND WHAT ARE THE
RISKS.
AND WITH ORGANIC, OR
CONVENTIONAL, YOU NEED TO BE
A GOOD FARMER PERIOD NO ONE
SHOULD BE PUTTING SLUDGE ON
STUFF THAT'S NOT COOKED, FOR
INSTANCE, OKAY?
SO NOW, YOU TAKE A
LETTUCE-DISPRB THIS IS WHERE
THE OUTBREAKS ARE HAPPENING
THESE DAYS IS ON FRESH
PRODUCT SO AGAIN WE WANT THE
BENEFITS OF A DIET RICH IN
FRESH PRODUCT BUT AT THE
SAME TIME THAT BRINGS IN NEW
CATEGORIES OF RISK, BECAUSE
WE DON'T COOK IT.

Maureen says AND RISK OF WHAT, DOUG?

Doug says MICRO ORGANISMS.
SAM NELLA, E. COLI 0157.
ACTUALLY THE LETTUCE IS
PROBABLY ONE OF THE WORST,
AND IT'S THE ONE THAT THE
BIG SUPERMARKETS ARE SAY
PHYSICAL YOU SUPPLY LET US
TO US NOW, YOU NEED TO BE
CERTIFIED.
THAT IS YOU NEED TO SHOW US
EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE AWARE
OF MICROBIAL RISK THAT
YOU'RE TAKING STEPS TO
REDUCE THOSE RISKS.
SO FOR EXAMPLE GETTING YOUR
WATER TESTED ROUTINELY.
WHAT ABOUT YOUR IRRIGATION
WATER?
ARE YOU SPREADING PATHOGENS
ON THAT FRESH PRODUCT?

Maureen says YEAH, WHAT ABOUT
FARMERS FROM WALKER ON?
DID THEY PUT WATER WITH E.
COLI INTO THEIR FIELDS?

Doug says AND THAT'S
THE KIND OF THING PRODUCERS
INCREASINGLY IN CANADA AND
THE UNITED STATES ARE AWARE
OF AND HAVE TO DOCUMENT
ACTUALLY TO BE ABLE TO
SUPPLY TO THE BIG STORES.
SO IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF
ORGANIC VERSUS CONVENTIONAL,
IT'S GOOD VERSUS BAD
PRODUCERS.
THE GOOD SHOULD BE AWARE OF
THIS BUT THERE'S A LOT OF
HUCKSTERISM GOING ON ABOUT
ALL KINDS OF FOOD THINGS.
AS FAR AS AT HOME, THERE'S
VERY LITTLE WE CAN DO.
WASHING RYE MOVES ONLY A
VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT GET
ON -- IN FACT THERE'S BEEN
SOME RECENT PAPERS THAT SHOW
ELECTRON MICROGRAMS,
PICTURES OF LETTUCE CELLS
AND THEY ACTUALLY GET
INFECTED WITH 0157 AT A VERY
YOUNG STAGE AND THE BACTERIA
ACTUALLY GROW BETWEEN THE
DIFFERENT CELLS.

Maureen says SO YOU'RE NOT
WASHING IT OUT.

Doug says YOU'RE NOT
WASHING THIS THING OFF.
IT HAS TO BE PREVENTED
GETTING ON IT IN THE FIRST
PLACE AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
FOOD SAFETY AND ALL THINGS
WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT,
WE ALWAYS LIKE TO TALK ABOUT
A FARM TO FORK SYSTEM THAT
IS I CAN GIVE YOU OUTBREAKS
ANYWHERE ALONG THAT.
SOMETIMES IT WAS A CONSUMER
MESSING UP IN THE KITCHEN,
SOMETIME IT WAS A FARMER
BEING SLOPPY ON THE FIELD,
LIKE PUTTING SLUDGE ON FRESH
PRODUCT?
THAT'S A NO NO.
THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE
COOKED AND PROCESSED, THAT'S
OKAY, BECAUSE IT'S COOKED.
SO -- AND THERE ARE A WHOLE
BUNCH OF STEPS IN BETWEEN.

Maureen says OAK, I'M SURE
WE'LL COME BACK TO PRODUCE.
WHAT ABOUT MAD COW DISEASE
IN CANADA.

Doug says MAD COW DISEASE.
THERE WAS ONE CASE IN 1993
ON AN ANIMAL IN ALBERTA THAT
HAD BEEN IMPORTED FROM THE
UNITED KINGDOM.
NOW ONCE IT WAS DIAGNOSED,
THE -- IT WAS AGRICULTURE
CANADA, IT WOULD BE CANADIAN
FOOD INSPECTION AGENCY TODAY,
THEY ROUNDED UP THE OTHER
400 AND SO ANIMALS THAT HAD
BEEN IMPORTED FROM THE UK IN
PREVIOUS YEARS AND
ESSENTIALLY INCINERATED
THEM.
THEY TOOK THEM OUT OF THE
FOOD CHAIN.
AND AT THE TIME, THEY WERE
CRITICIZED A AS BEING SORT
OF DRACONIAN.
NOW ADAYS, YOU LOOK BACK ON
IT THAT WAS A PRETTY GOOD
DECISION.
AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY
WITH BRAZIL AND THIS TALK
ABOUT A TRADE WAR -- IT'S
NOT.
IT WAS ACTUALLY ABOUT
MAINTAINING THE SAME
STANDARDS THAT WE HAD.
BRAZIL HAD BEEN -- HAD
IMPORTED OVER 4,000 ANIMAL,
NOT FROM THE U.K. BUT OTHER
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES THAT HAVE
SINCE BEEN SHOWN TO BE
CARRYING MAD COW DISEASE SO
WHAT CANADA WAS ASKING FOR
IS SHOW US THE PAPER WORK IS
THAT YOU CAN PROVE TO US YOU
KNOW WHERE THESE ANIMALS ARE
AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO END
UP AS THE STEAK ON SOMEONE'S
DINNER TABLE AND THEY
COULDN'T DO THAT.

Maureen says HAVE THEY DONE
IT NOW, TO YOUR SATISFACTION
AS WELL?

Doug says YES, THEY HAVE.
THE KEY PART IS THEY
PROMISED A WEEK AGO THEY
WOULD TRACK DOWN THE
PAPERWORK AND THAT LED TO
THE BAN LIFTED.
ALL THIS TRADE STUFF, YOU
HAVE TO HAVE A PRETTY
CONSPIRATORIAL MIND --

Maureen says AND PEOPLE DO.
THANK YOU, NADIEN IS IN NAPANINE.
WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION?

The Caller says MY HUSBAND AND I
WERE IN SCOTLAND
IN 1966 AND WE ATE THE MEAT
OF COURSE AND HAD MOST OF
THE MEAT CONSUMED IN
TRADITIONAL DISHES LIKE
HAGGIS AND SO FORTH.
THERE WERE SIGNS EVERYWHERE
FOR BRITISH BEEF, SAYING
THAT IT'S SAFE TO EAT, IT'S
OKAY, GO RIGHT AHEAD AND EAT
IT BUT SOME OF THE SMALLER,
KIND OF OUT OF THE WAY
PLACES WE ATE AT, WE WERE
ALWAYS CONCERNED THAT THEY
WEREN'T, YOU KNOW, QUITE AS
CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING
ON AND WHAT WAS GOING INTO
THEIR DISHES, INTO THEIR
MEAT DISHES.
AND YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS A
RISK, IS THERE ANY KIND OF A
TEST, A BLOOD TEST OR
ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT OUR
PHYSICIANS HERE IN CANADA
CAN PERFORM TO SEE WHETHER
WE'RE CARRYING ANY THIS,
THIS KIND OF THING?
BECAUSE SINCE THIS HAPPENED,
MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE BEEN
LOOKING AT EACH OTHER DURING
THE NEWS AND GOING, “WOW!”

Maureen says I GUESS YOU GUYS
CAN'T DONATE BLOOD ANYMORE, EH?
ARE YOU PART OF THAT BAN?

The Caller says I DON'T KNOW.
WE'VE NEVER REALLY DISCUSSED
THAT.
BUT I KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN
KIND OF A POINT OF
CONTENTION, AND NOW WE'VE
GOT KIDS.
WE'VE HAD TWO CHILDREN --

Maureen says SINCE THEN.

The Caller says SINCE THIS, AND IT'S
ALWAYS BEEN A CONCERN IN THE
BACK OF YOUR MIND.

Maureen says OKAY WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Doug says WELL, THESE
ARE THE KIND OF TOUGH
QUESTIONS, AND I WANT TO
STRESS, WE'RE GOING TO TALK
ABOUT FOOD SAFETY FOR THE
SHOW AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
GO AWAY AND GO “OH, MY GOD!
I CAN'T EAT THIS AND I
DIDN'T EAT THAT.”
AND REALLY THE CHALLENGE IS
WE SHOULD ENJOY OUR FOOD
BECAUSE THE BIGGEST RISK OF
COURSE IS NOT EATING AT ALL.
WE DO HAVE TO EAT AND IT'S A
MATTER OF BALANCING THOSE
RISKS.
NOW WHAT THE CALLER SAID
I'VE HEARD FROM HUNDREDS OF
PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE
U.K., YOU KNOW, I ATE THIS
STUFF, AM I GOING TO GET IT?
AND IT'S -- WE HAVE OUR
PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS.
WE THINK IF MAYBE IT'S A
FANCIER PLACE IT DOESN'T
CARE RIGHT SAME RISK AS SOME
SMALL OUT OF THE WAY PLACE.
WITH BOVINE SPONGE FORM
ENCEPHALOPATHY, THE
INFECTIOUS AGENT IS NOT A
BACTERIA OR A VIRUS, IT'S
SOMETHING COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT.
IT SEEMS TO BE COMPLETELY
RESISTANT TO DEGRADATION.
IT WOULDN'T MATTER OUT BEEF
WAS HANDLED AND IF IT'S
THERE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO
DESTROY IT.
EVEN INCINERATION OF A
THOUSAND DEGREES IT DOESN'T
DEACTIVATE IT.
THAT'S ANOTHER WHOLE STORY.
AS FAR AS PERSONAL RISK YOU
CAN NEVER SAY THERE'S NO
RISK BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT
THE RISK IS EXTREMELY
MINIMAL.
ALL OF THE PEOPLE -- TO DATE
THERE'S BEEN ABOUT 85 PEOPLE
COME DOWN WITH THIS HUMAN
FORM THAT SEEMS TO BE LINKED
AND IT'S CALLED NEW VARIANT
CREUTZFELD JACOB DISEASE.
NOW THERE'S TRADITIONAL KUT
FELLED JACOB DISEASE BUT
IT'S DIFFERENT.
THIS IS YOUNGER PEOPLE.
THEY ALL SEEM TO HAVE TWO
COPIES OF THIS ONE GENE, AND
WITH ANY ILLNESS YOU NEED A
GENETIC PREDISPOSITION IN
SOME CASES OR YOU'RE A
LITTLE MORE VULNERABLE THAN
SAY YOUR NEIGHBORS.
AND IT'S HARD TO PUT THESE
THINGS IN CONTEXT, BECAUSE
YES, IT'S TERRIBLE WAY TO
DIE, AND I DON'T WANT TO
MINIMIZE IT, HOWEVER YOU
LOOK AT ALL THE OTHER THINGS
IN YOUR LIFE, THE PRIMARY
RISK WOULD BE TO GET
SOMETHING LIKE E. COLI OR
15787 THAT COULD TAKE YOU
OUT IN THE NEXT FIVE DAYS.

Maureen says 85 PEOPLE OF HOW
MANY MILLIONS IN EUROPE WHO
ATE BEEF.

Doug says BUT YOU
DON'T WANT TO TRIVIALIZE IT.
AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE
MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EACH YEAR
HERE IN CANADA WHO DO GET
FOOD OR WATER BORNE ILLNESS
AND PROBABLY A COUPLE
HUNDRED DIE.
EACH YEAR.

Maureen says EACH YEAR.

Doug says IN CANADA.
AND THAT'S ONLY 30 MILLION
PEOPLE.
SO YOU HAVE THESE THINGS,
BUT THEN AGAIN, IF IT EVER
HAPPENED TO YOU IT WOULD BE
ABSOLUTELY AWFUL.

Maureen says DO YOU KNOW HOW
CANADA'S OUTBREAKS OF FOOD
BORNE ILLNESSES COMPARE TO
EUROPE'S, BY ANY CHANCE?

Doug says THE SAME
PATHOGENS ARE APPEARING AND
EMERGING IN THE SAME PLACES.
WE HAVE SIMILAR PRODUCTION
SYSTEMS.
THERE'S NO REAL DISPARITIES.
IT ALSO DEPENDS ON
SURVEILLANCE.
THE U.S., FOR INSTANCE, IS
PICKING UP OUTBREAKS THAT WE
HAVEN'T PICKED UP IN THE
PAST, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN
THEY HAVEN'T HAPPENED, IT
JUST MEANS THEY HAVE A
LITTLE BETTER SURVEILLANCE.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LOOKING A
LITTLE HARDER.
AND THEY'RE STARTING TO PUT
STUFF -- YOU KNOW IN THE
PAST, STUFF THAT WOULD BE OH,
I THINK I HAVE A BIT OF 24
HOUR FLU, WELL THERE'S NO
SUCH THING REALLY AS A 24
HOUR FLU.
A REAL FLU GOES ON FOR
SEVERAL SEVERAL DAYS.

Maureen says SO THAT'S FOOD
POISONING.

Doug says ALMOST ALWAYS FOOD OR
WATER BORNE ILLNESS, BUT
MOST PEOPLE CAN RIDE IT OUT.

Maureen says YOU KNOW, IT'S
INTERESTING, TOO, I DID ALSO
JUST READ THAT THEY DID A
STUDY OF PEOPLE'S KITCHEN
SINKS AND COMPARED THEM TO
THEIR TOILET AND THE ONE
MUCH SCIENTIST SAID YOU'D BE
BETTER OFF EATING A CARROT
THAT DROPPED INTO YOUR
TOILET THAN YOUR KITCHEN
SINK.
DO WE HAVE GERMS ALL OVER
OUR KITCHENS?

Doug says YES, AND
AGAIN, DO WE WANT TO
ACTUALLY CREATE A STERILE
ENVIRONMENT?
BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE BAD
FOURS.
WE NEED MICRO ORGANISMS.
WE NEED THEM AROUND US.
YOU KNOW, THE OLD SAYING A
BIT OF DIRT'S GOOD FOR YOU.
AND IN SOME CASES, YOU KNOW,
IT IS.
WHAT HAPPENS IS WE HAVE ALL
THIS NEW KNOWLEDGE ABOUT
FOOD BORNE ILLNESS AND WHERE
IT COMES FROM, AND I THINK
WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO
USE IT.
BUT WE -- THERE ARE ACTUALLY
FOOD SCIENCE SCIENTISTS WHO
WOULD SAY OUR FOOD IS TOO
CLEAN TODAY AND THAT IS WHY
SOME OF THESE MORE EXOTIC
MICRO ORGANISMS HAVE EMERGED,
BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE
COMPETITION.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND YOU'RE
ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE A FEW
WHO ARE GENETICALLY
SUSCEPTIBLE, BECAUSE EVEN IN
THE GOOD OLD DAYS YOU HEARD
ABOUT FAMILIES LOSING A KID
HERE AND THERE UP AND DOWN
THE RURAL ROUTES AND THAT
WAS ALMOST ALWAYS FOOD AND
WATER OR SOME SORT OF LIKE
ILLNESS.
IT WAS ALWAYS A BATTLE TO
GET THESE.
THE MAIN THING.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
KITCHENS.
WHAT'S THE BIG RISE WE'VE SEEN?
ANTIMICROBIAL EVERYTHING.
MY MENNEN SPEEDSTICK IS NOW
SOLD AS ANTIMICROBIAL.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT
IS SALMONELLA'S DOING IN MY
UNDER ARM, BUT I'M GLAD THATTY
OWED DEODORANT'S BACTERIAL.

Maureen says I HAVE HEARD NOT
TO USE MECHANICALLY RATED
BEEF AND PORK BECAUSE THEY
USE WATER AND CAN BLOW THE
SPINAL COLUMN AND BRAINED
AREAS INTO THE MEAT.
THESE AREAS WOULD CONTAINED
THE SPONGED BRAIN.
IF THE PACKAGING SAYS BEEF
AND PORK IT HAS BEEN
BUTCHERED WITH A KNIFE AND
HOPEFULLY THE BUTCHER IS
COMPETENT.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON
THIS MECHANICALLY SEPARATED.

Doug says THERE IS A
PROCESS WHICH LET'S THEM GET
SORT OF THE EXTRA MEAT OFF
WHATEVER BONES ARE THERE.
FIRST OF ALL THERE'S NO MAD
PIG DISEASE THAT ANYONE HAS
BEEN ABLE TO FIND SO FAR SO
JUST ON THE CATTLE WOULD BE
THE CONCERN AND AGAIN WE
DON'T HAVE THOSE ANIMALS
HERE AS FAR AS WE KNOW.
HOWEVER, THE CANADIAN CATTLEMAN
FUNDED SOME RESEARCH INTO
THIS A COUPLE YEARS AGO IN
TERMS OF SOME OF THE SYSTEMS,
AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY
KNOW THE DETAIL, I'M SORRY.
I HAVE THEM BACK AT MY
OFFICE AND FEEL FREE TO
E-MAIL THEM FOR ME AND I'LL
GET THEM FOR YOU WHERE THEY
DID ACTUALLY CHANGE SOME OF
THEIR PROCEDURES TO MINIMIZE,
AS THE WRITER, E-MAILER SAYS,
TO REDUCE SPINAL CORD AND
THESE OTHER FRAGMENTS
GETTING IN.
AGAIN, AS A FURTHER FIREWALL
TO LOWER THAT RISK.

Maureen says GETTING INTO WHAT?
WHAT KIND OF BEEF PRODUCTS?

Doug says OH, YOU KNOW,
I MEAN --

Maureen says HAMBURGER?

Doug says NOT NECESSARILY HAMBURGER,
BUT MORE WHERE IT'S USED AS
AN INGREDIENT.

Maureen says SPAM?

Doug says KD MEET.
I'M THINKING PUT A BAN ON
BRAZILIAN BEEF, MAYBE THAT
WAS JUST GOOD TASTE
BECAUSE --

Maureen says IT'S YUCKY!

Doug says YEAH!
(LAUGHING)
SO KD MEAT THAT KIND OF
STUFF.

Maureen says HE'LL HAVE IS IN
KITCHENER.
WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION?

The Caller says MY QUESTION IS
WITH REGARD TO THE MEDIA
CONTINUED TO PUT A LOT OF
INFORMATION OUT WITH REGARDS
TO KEEPING FOOD SAVE IN THE
KITCHEN.
I HAVE OCCASION TO BE IN A
GROCERY STORE, AND I SEE
SOME, WHAT I FEEL ARE
ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC
HAPPENINGS.
THE CUSTOMERS, THE FIRST
PLACE THEY SEEM TO GO IS TO
THE MEAT SECTION.
DELHI SECTION, FRESH MEAT
SECTION AND THEN THEY PICK
UP THEIR GROUND BEEF AND IT
GOES INTO THE CART AND I SEE
THOSE PEOPLE IN THE GROCERY
STORES FOR SOMETIMES TWO
HOURS WITH THIS GROUND BEEF
SITTING ON THEIR CART.
AND SOMETIMES IT'S SITTING
NEXT TO A FRESHLY ROASTED
CHICKEN, BECAUSE OUR
GROCERIES STORES NOW HAVE
ANYTHING IMAGINABLE IN THEM.
AND PEOPLE DO -- IT'S ALMOST
AN OUTING WITH THEIR
FAMILIES AND OFTEN FOR THE
AS I SAY TWO HOURS.
I CAN'T IMAGINE BY THE TIME
THEY'VE SPENT TWO HOURS IN
THE GROCERY STORE, THEN THEY
GET IN THE CAR, THEN THEY GO
HOME, AND THEN THERE'S ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE KITCHEN,
WHICH ARE THE ONES THAT WE
SEE IN THE MEDIA, THE
KITCHEN PROBLEMS, BUT WE
NEVER SEEM TO SEE MUCH IN
THE MEDIA ABOUT ADVICE
TOWARD THE CUSTOMERS WITH
REGARD TO HOW THEY BUY THEIR
FOOD.

Maureen says RIGHT.

The Caller says WHAT WOULD BE
YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THAT.

Doug says WELL AGAIN
IT COMES BACK TO THIS FARM
TO FORK SYSTEM AND THE
DISTRIBUTION, THE GROCERY
STORE LEVEL IS A SIGNIFICANT
AREA.
I MEAN, JUST TAKING THOSE
PACKAGES OF MEAT, AND OFTEN
TIMES YOU'LL SEE JUICES
DRIPPING OUT.
WELL WHAT IF THEY'RE SITTING
BESIDE SAY SOME FRESH
PEPPERS THAT MAYBE YOU'RE
NOT GOING TO WASH.
OR -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL
KINDS OF POTENTIAL FOR
CROSS-CONTAMINATION.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE
RETAILERS HAVE INVESTED
SIGNIFICANTLY IN FOOD SAFETY
TRAINING OVER THE LAST FEW
YEARS TO TRY AND ENHANCE
THEIR STANDARDS, ESPECIALLY
CHILL CASE TEMPERATURES,
WHERE YOU WANT TO KEEP THAT
MEAT AT A REFRIGERATED
TEMPERATURE.
YOU'RE RIGHT.
IF SOMEONE TAKES IT AND THEN
GOES TO A BASKETBALL GAME IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER AND
IT'S SITTING THERE FOR A
COUPLE HOURS, THAT'S GOING
TO INCREASE MICROBIAL
GROWTH.
BUT GROCERY STORE, YOU KNOW
THEY'RE DOING -- I THINK
THEY CAN DO BETTER,
ESPECIALLY ON THE PRODUCE
SIDE.
BUT THEY'RE AWARE OF IT.
AND YOU'RE RIGHT, WE SEE ALL
SORTS OF WEIRD THINGS THAT
PEOPLE DO WITH FOOD.

Maureen says WHERE DO YOU GO
FIRST IN A GROCERY STORE?
WHAT DO YOU PUT IN THE
BOTTOM OF THE CART?

Doug says PRODUCE.

Maureen says PRODUCE FIRST.
JUST BECAUSE IT'S THERE.
ACTUALLY I DON'T GO FOR TWO
HOUR VENTURES.

Maureen says ME EITHER.
GET IN AND OUT.

Doug says I GOT FOUR
KIDS WE GO YOU A THE TIME.
I'M THE SOS YOL JIFS THE
GROCERY STOMPLT I GO IN AND
TALK TO THE PRODUCE GUYS AND
ASK THEM WHAT'S SELLING AND
NOT.
WE GET THIS ORGANIC JUICE SO
I'M ALWAYS CHATTING THEM UP.
FOR MY RESEARCH, THAT'S
WHERE PEOPLE ARE MAKING THE
DECISIONS.
PEOPLE SAY ANYTHING ON THE
TELEPHONE BUT YOU GOT TO
WATCH WHAT THEY DO IN THE
GROCERY STORE SO I GO IN
MAYBE TWO, THREE TIMES A
WEEK FOR 15, 20 MINUTES.

Maureen says DO YOU KNOW WHAT
YOU COULD TELL THEM TO DO
BETTER?
THE MEAT COUNTER?
WRAP THE CHICKEN THREE OR
MORE TIMES.
NOTHING LEAKS IN YOUR HAND,
AND THEY HAVE CHIN NEXT
THERE FOR YOU TO WIPE YOUR
HANDS ON, SO YOU KNOW THEY
KNOW IT LEAKS.
IT'S THE PACKAGES OF CHICKEN
AND I ASSUME THAT JUICE IS
FULL OF BAD THINGS.

Doug says YES.

Maureen says ALL RIGHT,
DOUGLAS SAYS CAN YOUR GUEST
COMMENT ON THE WIDESPREAD
USE OF COATINGS ON FRUIT AND
VEGETABLES, AND THEN HE
NAMES THEM.
EMAZOLIL AND THIBEZALOLE,
ARE THEY SAFE TOIN JEST ON
PRODUCE THAT CANNOT BE
PEELED?

Doug says YES, THEY ARE.
MOST OF THOSE CHEMICAL NAMES
ARE -- THEY'RE ACTUALLY
MOLECULES THAT ARE QUITE
SIMILAR IN STRUCTURE TO
NATURALLY EXISTING CHEMICALS
AND WE'VE JUST GIVEN THEM A
CHEMICAL NAME, AND THEY'RE
THERE TO OFTEN RESERVE THE
SHELF LIFE.
A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF FOOD
ACTUALLY GETS THROWN OUT.
WHETHER IT'S AT THE GROCERY
STORE OR AT RESTAURANT, AND
YOU KNOW, IN THE OLD DAY,
SHELF LIFE STABILITY --
STUFF ONLY LASTED A DAY OR
SO AND IT WOULD BE GONE AND
THERE WAS A HUGE AMOUNT OF
INEFFICIENCY THAT WAY.
SO IT'S THERE TO PRESERVE.
THERE IS KEEPS IT CLEAN A
LITTLE BIT FROM OTHER STUFF
GETTING IN.
BUT ON THE WHOLE, IT'S
ESSENTIALLY SAFE.
WITH PRODUCE -- I'M SURE
SOMEONE WILL ASK, BUT I WANT
TO TELL YOU NOW, THE FIT
STORIES, RIGHT?

Maureen says YEAH, THE WASH
FOR PRODUCE.

Doug says SPEAKING OF
WAXING AND TAKING STUFF OFF.
BECAUSE PEOPLE HEAR ALL
THESE STORIES, ABOUT THE
OUTBREAKS AND CONSUMERS
WONDER “WHAT CAN I DO?”
AND WHETHER THEY CAN DO
ANYTHING OR NOT BECOMES
IRRELEVANT AS LONG AS THEY
THINK THEY'RE DOING
SOMETHING, THEY'RE GOING TO
BUY IT.
AND THE GROCERY GUYS TELL ME
THEY CAN'T KEEP THIS STUFF
ON THE SHELVES.
15 dollars, YOU KNOW, FOR THIS STUFF?
BASICALLY IT'S GRAPEFRUIT
JUICE AND ORANGE JUICE,
LEMON JUICE.
IT'S JUST ORGANIC ACIDS.

Maureen says DOES IT WORK?
DOES IT KILL OFF THE MICRO
BACTERIA?

Doug says NO, NOT AT ALL.
IT DOES NOTHING FOR MICRO
ORGANISMS.
THEY DON'T CLAIM IT DOES.
THEY SAY IT CLAIMS DIRT AND
CHEMICAL RESIDUES.
CHEMICAL RESIDUES I CAN TELL
YOU ARE AT THE LOWEST
THEY'VE EVER BEEN IN GROCERY
STORES --

Maureen says THAT'S PESTICIDE
RESIDUE, RIGHT?

Doug says WHEN THEY MAKE THE CLAIM
IN THE ADDS IT REMOVES 99.9 percent
MORE DIRT AND ARE RES DEUCE,
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT
IT'S REMOVING.
AND THE STUFF IN THE GROCERY
STORE, YOU MIGHT HAVE
RESIDUE LEVELS OF .0001
PARTS PER MILLION IS IT
WORTH 15 dollars FOR THAT EXTRA 0?

Maureen says DO YOU WASH YOUR
PRODUCE THOUGH AT HOME,
RIGHT?

Doug says I WASH IT.
YEAH.
WITH WATER.

Maureen says JUST WATER?

Doug says THE WATER AND THE
FRICTION WILL REMOVE
SUPERFICIAL STUFF.

Maureen says TAKE AN APPLE,
JUST RUN IT UNDER.
THAT WHAT I DO FOR MY SON IN
THE MORNING BEFORE HE EATS
HIS APPLE.

Doug says NO SOAP, WASHES EVER
ANYTHING ELSE.

Maureen says BUT IF WE TESTED
THAT APPLE, THESE WAXES
WOULD COME UP ON IT RIGHT?
BUT IT'S NOT BAD -- THE
ACTUAL FINE SGER MINERALS
AND VITAMINS HE'S GETTING --
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANYONE
RALS -- ARE BETTER FOR HIM
THAN THE RISK OF WHATEVER
PESTICIDE RESIDUE IS LEFT?

Doug says ABSOLUTELY.
AND THIS GOES BACK TO THE
ALAR STORY IN AN PES.

Maureen says YEAH, REMEMBER THAT?

Doug says YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE WERE BANNING APPLE
JUICE.
AND THEY DO SURVEYS EVERY
YEAR AND HE SAY “WELL, YOU
KNOW THERE'S RESIDUES HERE
HERE AND HERE” AND THEN
PEOPLE CAME UP, WAIT A
MINUTE, WE KNOW AND THE
CANADIAN CANCER SOCIETY'S
REVIEWED THIS AND LOTS OF
PEOPLE REVIEWED IT AND THEY
ALL CONCLUDE THAT YES, THERE
IS RIVELT OF COURSE THAT IS.
BUT THAT RISK IS FAR
OUT-WEIGHED BY THE BENEFIT
OF A DIET RICH IN FRESH
FRUITS AND VEGETABLE AND THE
USE OF THOSE AGRICULTURAL
CHEMICALS HELPS ENHANCE THE
SUPPLY OF THAT.
SO IT GOES BACK TO YOUR
POINT.
YES, EAT THAT APPLE.

Maureen says OKAY, THE LONG
JEVETY OF THE FRUIT IN THE
STORE IS GREAT FOR THE
SUPERMARKET, AND IT'S GREAT
FOR THE FARMER, BUT PEOPLE
WHO BUY ORGANIC WOULD SAY
WE'D RATHER YOU NOT INTO THE
WAX ON.
THEY WOULD SAY THE WAX IS
TRAPPING IN ANY PESTICIDES
THAT ARE IN THERE AND
PREVENTING THEM FROM WASHING
OFF.

Doug says I'M NOT SURE
THEY'D SAY THAT.

Maureen says IN ORGANIC THERE
WOULDN'T BE PESTICIDES
ANYWAY, RIGHT?

Doug says NO, THAT'S
NOT TRUE.

Maureen says THAT'S NOT TRUE.

Doug says THERE
WOULDN'T BE SYNTHETIC --
PESTICIDES JUST MEANS
CHEMICALS THAT KILL PESTS.
BUT THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF
SO-CALLED NATURAL
PESTICIDES.
IT'S MORE A PHILOSOPHICAL
DIFFERENCE.
WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR
CHEMISTRY FROM?

Maureen says MMM SO LET'S GO
TO THE WAX ON THE FRUIT.
DOES IT TRAP THINGS IN?

Doug says I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH
ABOUT WAX.
I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH
MICRO ORGANISMS AND
PESTICIDE RESIDUES.

Maureen says AND PAYING EXTRA
FOR ORGANIC YOU DON'T THINK
IS WORST ANY HEALTH BENEFIT?

Doug says I THINK THAT
PEOPLE -- AGAIN IT COMES
BACK TO DO YOU WANT TO PAY
EXTRA FOR THAT FIT STUFF,
THE WASH?
IF YOU THINK THAT IT'S DOING
SOMETHING AND YOU HAVE THE
MONEY AND THAT'S HOW YOU
WANT TO SPEND IT, I THINK BY
ALL MEANS, PEOPLE SHOULD
HAVE THAT CHOICE.
I PERSONALLY DON'T DO IT.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY
BENEFIT.

Maureen says OKAY.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOOD
SAFETY THIS AFTERNOON WITH
PROFESSOR DOUG POWELL FROM
THE UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH.
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT
THE FOOD THAT YOU EAT AND
THE SAFETY -- AND WE HAVEN'T
EVEN GOT INTO GENETICALLY
MODIFIED FOODS, GIVE US A CALL.
IN TORONTO

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Maureen continues TIM IS IN TORONTO.
WELCOME, HIM?

The Caller says HI.
MY QUESTION IS IN REGARDS TO
SUSHI.
I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S ANY
INHERIT RISK WITH SURB ANDEE
IF THAT RISK IS INCREASED IN
PLACES LIKE TORONTO WHERE
OBVIOUSLY THE FISH ISN'T
VERY FRESH.
AND ALSO, JUST WONDERING --
I'VE HEARD PRODUCE IS NOW 60
TO 70 percent REDUCED IN VITAMINS
AND MINERALS COMPARED TO
DECK DEADS -- DECADES AGO.
I'M WONDER PHYSICAL THAT'S
TRUE AND IF ORGANIC PROGRESS
IS BETTER.

Doug says OKAY, I'LL
GO BACKWARDS.
FIRST OF ALL THE NUTRIENT
LEVELS YES, I'VE HEARD THOSE,
TOO.
THOSE ARE MORE URBAN MYTHS
THAN ANYTHING.
IT HAS MORE TO DO WITH SOIL
QUALITY AND -- YOU CAN FIND
VARIATIONS FROM YEAR TO YEAR
BUT IT HAS MORE TO DO WITH
WEATHER CONDITIONS IN THE
SOIL THAT YEAR.
THERE IS NO TRUTH TO THIS
IDEA THAT OUR SOIL IS DEAD
AND THEREFORE OUR VEGETABLES
ARE DEAD AND DON'T HAVE THE
NUTRIENTS.

Maureen says BUT YOU AND I
DID TALK LAST SUMMER.
DID YOUR TOMATOES TASTE GOOD?
MINE TASTED --

Doug says WITH THE YOU NEED SUN TO
MAKE THEM TASTE GOOD.

Maureen says IT WAS THE SUN?

Doug says YEAH, BECAUSE THE SUN
HELPS CREATE THE SUGARS
WHICH GIVE IT THE BITEY
TASTE IN THE ACID AND LAST
SUMMER IT WAS A CONTROL
CRAPPY SUMMER.
IT WAS WET AND COLD AND
THINGS JUST DIDN'T RIPEN UP.

Maureen says DOES THAT MEAN
THEY WOULDN'T BE AS HIGH IN
NUTRIENTS EITHER?

Doug says NOT NECESSARILY.
THAT'S MORE A COMBINATION --
AGAIN IT'S THE SUGARS AND
ACIDS, NOT NECESSARILY THE
MINERALS.
NOW TO GO BACK TO THE FIRST
PART, SUSHI, I'VE NEVER
REALLY LIKED SUSHI, SO MAYBE
I'M NOT THE BEST ONE TO
ANSWER THIS HOWEVER THERE
ARE A NUMBER OF RAW FISHES
AND SHELLFISH THAT PEOPLE
EAT.
AND PERSONALLY, I'D STAY
AWAY FROM IT.
WE HAVE OUTBREAKS, NOT SO
MUCH UP HERE BECAUSE WE
DON'T CONSUME AS MUCH BUT ON
THE COASTAL STATE, THE
UNITED STATES, THEY HAVE
OUTBREAKS OF BACTERIA CALLED
VIBRIA EVERY YEAR RELATED TO
RAW OYSTER CONSUMPTION.
BASICALLY IT'S A CRAP SHOOT.
AND I KNOW, AND I'VE SEEN TV
PROGRAMMES WITH PEOPLE WHO
SAY “OH, WELL I ONLY HARVEST
THEM AT CERTAIN MONTHS AND I
KNOW THIS AND THAT.”
THAT'S HUCKSTERISM.
THEY DON'T KNOW.
IT GOES BACK TO WHAT WE WERE
SAYING EARLIER, IT'S MICRO
ORGANISMS.
YOU CAN'T SEE THEM.
IT DOESN'T MAKE THEM TASTE
DIFFERENT.
SO YOU'RE ROLLING THE DICE.
EVERY YEAR, THE FOOD AND
DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAVE
THIS BIG CAMPAIGN A FEW
YEARS AGO, BECAUSE EVERY
YEAR IN FLORIDA, A DOZEN OR
SO MIDDLE AGED WHITE GUYS
LIKE ME DIE FROM VIBRIA.

Maureen says AND THAT'S
MUSSELS OR OYSTERS?

Doug says IT'S THE RAW
OYSTER CONSUMPTION, AND FOOD
IS A SOCIAL THING, AND WE
WANT TO ENJOY IT.
SO WE WENT DOWN AND THOUGHT
WHY ISN'T THE MESSAGE
GETTING THROUGH?
AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THESE
GUYS ARE ALL ALCOHOLICS.
VIBRIA PRODUCES A TOXIN
PARTICULARLY HARMFUL FOR
YOUR LIVER.
AGAIN YOU'VE GOT THAT
SUSCEPTIBILITY, IF YOU'RE
ALREADY ALCOHOLIC AND
DRINKING MORE YOU'RE MORE
VULNERABLE AND THEY WOULD GO
IN AND FIND THIS CULTURE
AROUND RAW OYSTERS, YOU GO
TO OYSTER BARS, DRINK BEER,
SCARF BACK RAW OYSTERS, GOOD
FOR REQUIRE I REALLY TEE,
ALL THESE THINGS.
THERE'S THE DOWN SIDE.
AND THEY WERE TRYING TO SAY
HOW DO WE GET AT THESE GUYS
AND THE ANSWER IS YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO.

Maureen says WHAT ABOUT FISH
IN GENERAL.
I COOKED SALMON LAST NIGHT.
IT NEEDS TO BE COOKED
THROUGH BECAUSE IT'LL TASTE
BETTER BUT ARE THERE THINGS
IN FISH WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT?

Doug says FISH CARRY BACTERIA JUST
LIKE ANYTHING ELSE AND IT
NEEDS TO BE COOKED.
SO IF YOU'RE GOING SUSHI AND
PEOPLE SAY WELL, IT'S THIS
CERTAIN FISH, THERE'S GOOD
STORY, BUT I THINK WHAT
CONSUMERS CAN DO WITH ALL OF
THESE THINGS IS THAT SOUNDS
REALLY NICE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY DAT TO A TO
BACK THAT UP?

Maureen says YOU ASK THAT OF
THE PERSON SELLING YOU THE
SUSHI.

Doug says YEAH, AND THERE ARE
PRODUCER THAT ARE SARVEVY
ENOUGH TODAY, THEY'LL HAVE IT.

Maureen says JOYCE IS NEXT.
HI JOYCE.

Maureen says HI.

The Caller says I HAVE SOME OLD
RECIPES THAT INVOLVE USING
RAW BEATEN EGG WHITES AND I
WAS JUST WONDERING IF IT WAS
EVER SAFE TO USE RAW EGGS.

Maureen says YEAH, CAESAR
SALAD DRESSING.

Doug says IN FACT IN
CALIFORNIA THEY PASSED A LAW
TWO YEARS AGO, THEY WERE
GOING TO BAN ALL CAESAR
SALAD DRESSINGS THAT WERE
MADE FROM THE RAW EGGS BUT
PEOPLE GOT UPSET SO NOW THEY
HAVE TO SIGN A WAIVER AND
THEY PREPARE IT RIGHT AT THE
TABLE.
BECAUSE OF LIABILITY.
WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS
CURRENTLY TODAY THE
ESTIMATION IS THAT ABOUT ONE
TO 10,000 EGGS CARRY A
BACTERIA CALLED SALMONELLA
ENTERIDIDIS AND THAT'S
SALMONELLA, IT CAN BE NASTY.
NOW WE HAVE THIS
CONVERSATION AT HOME,
BECAUSE EVERY CHRISTMAS MY
WIFE SAYS “I WANT TO MAKE
EGGNOG” WITH RAW EGGS.

Maureen says OKAY OH.

Doug says AND I SAY SURE.
THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THAT
TIME IS A PROBABILITY THING.
IT'S ONE IN 10,000 AND WE
MAKE EGGNOG FOR OURSELVES, I
WOULDN'T NECESSARILY SERVE
IT TO GUESTS.

Maureen says HOW ABOUT YOUR
KIDS?

Doug says AH... YES AND NO.

Maureen says TWO OF THEM.

Doug says AGAIN THEY
HAVE SOME SORT OF IMMUNITY
BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT
YOU'RE GETTING INTO BUT IF
IT'S ONLY SIX EGGS AND THE
RISK IS ONE IN TEN THOUSAND
VERSUS I'M MAKING THAT EGG
NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE FOR A
CHURCH SUPPER WHERE I'VE GOT
100 OR 200 PEOPLE WHERE NOW
I NEED A COUPLE THOUSAND
EGGS, SUDDENLY MY
PROBABILITY'S INCREASED.
BECAUSE YOU ONLY NEED ONE TO
GET INTO THAT BATCH AND
THERE'S BEEN OUT BREAKS
DOCUMENTED THAT WAY WHERE
THEY FOUND MASS PREPARATION,
YOU ONLY NEED THE ONE TO GET
IN AND IT CAN CONTAMINATE
THE WHOLE THING ANDAZ
THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO TO
GET THAT ONE IN 10,000 DOWN
TO ONE TO A MILLION?

Doug says FARMERS HAVE
HAD A VERY AGGRESSIVE
SALMONELLA RAD INDICATION
PROGRAMME WHERE IF THEY FIND
IT IN THE FLOCK THEY TAKE
THAT FLOCK OUT OF COMMISSION
TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.
THEY'RE ALWAYS WORKING ON
IMPROVING IT BUT YOU'RE
GOING GO FROM ONE IN TEN
THOUSAND TO ONE IN 100
DISMOUS IT BECOMES A
PROBABILITY THING.
YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET TO
ZERO SOURX TAKE YOUR CHANCES
BUT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
NOW, THE OTHER FACTORS
COMPLICATING ALL THIS IS WE
HAVE A MORE VULNERABLE
POPULATION.
OUR MEDICAL ADVANCES LEFT US
WITH A POPULATION MORE
IMMUNOCOMPROMISED.
CANCER SURVIVORS, AIDS
PATIENTS, ALL OF THESE
PEOPLE HAVE SUPPRESSED
IMMUNE SYSTEMS IN ONE AOR
ANOTHER AND THEREFORE DON'T
HAVE A STRONG -- AS STRONG
OF AN ABILITY TO FIGHT OFF
THAT INFECTION.
SO IT CAN BE QUITE SERIOUS.
AND THAT'S WHY THEY TAKE
ABOUT -- YOU KNOW, SAY USING
FOOD OR RADIATION.
NOW YOU CAN BUY, SAY -- IF
YOU WANT THAT CAESAR SALAD
WITH THE FRESH EGGS, THEY
NOW HAVE PASTEURIZED EGGS.
YOU CAN BUY THE WHOLE EGG,
AND IT'S BEEN HEAT TREATED
MINIMALLY TO KILL OFF
WHATEVER'S IN THERE BUT
RETAIN THE WHOLE EGG.

Maureen says CAN I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT
Mr. NIELSEN OR BECKERS OR
Mac'S MILK IS DOING WITH THE
EGGNOG THEY SELL ME AT
CHRISTMAS?

Doug says THAT'S ALL PASTEURIZED.
LABELLED AS PASTEURIZED AND
YOU CAN ACTUALLY BUY LIQUID
YOLKS THAT ARE PASTEURIZED
TO USE IN RECIPES IF YOU'RE
CONCERNED.
SO IT'S WHERE YOUR OWN
COMFORT LEVEL IS.

Maureen says THANK YOU, JOYCE.
AND DIRK IN HANOVER SAYS
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT A
RADIATION WILL KILL MICRO
ORGANISMS AND IF SO WHY
DON'T WE IRRADIATE EVERY
FOOD BY LAW.
EVERY STUDY I'VE EVER HEARD
OF IS IT'S PERFECTLY SAFE.

Doug says AND A LOT OF THE
COMPARISONS ARE TO
PASTEURIZATION WHICH WE DO
BY LAW NOW.
PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WOULD
DESTROY NUTRIENTS, AND MILK
WASN'T AS HEALTHY AND YOU
WERE KILLING OFF ALL THIS STUFF.
IRRADIATION FOR WHATEVER
REASON HAS NOT BEEN WIDELY
SUPPORTED.
I'VE JUST BEEN DOING SOME
RESEARCH THON IN THE U.S.
THEY APPROVED -- WE'VE HAD
IRRADIATION SINCE THE '50s
AFTER WORLD WAR II, AND WE
DO IRRADIATE SPICES.
IT'S BEEN APPROVED IN CANADA
SINCE THE '60s FOR ONIONS
AND POTATOES TOIN HINT
SPROUTING.
A LOT OF THE SPICES YOU BUY
AT THE STORE, THE MAJORITY
OF THOSE ARE IRRADIATED BUT
BECAUSE THEY'RE INGREDIENTS
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE
LABELLED.
IT'S ONLY WHEN IT'S ABOVE
55 percent OR 10 percent OF THE TOTAL FOOD
MANDATORY LABELLING KICKS IN.
IN THE U.S. THEY APPROVED
IRRADIATION FOR GROUND BEEF
ABOUT A YEAR AGO AND THERE'S
ALSO DIFFERENT KINDS OF
IRRADIATION COMING OUT.
IT'S NO LONGER JUST
DEPENDENT ONLY ACTIVITY.
YOU CAN USE HIGH STREAMS OF
ELECTRICITY AND OTHER THINGS.
THE “NEW YORK TIMES” CARRIED
A STORY YESTERDAY ABOUT
THIS.
THEY'VE BEEN ON SALE IN THE
U.S. NOW FOR ABOUT SIX
MONTHS.
THE RETAILERS AREN'T PUSHING
THEM.
THEY'RE SELLING HERE AND
THERE, BUT IT'S --
TO USE A BAD PUN, A CHICKEN
AND EGG THING.
WHO GOES FIRST.
BECAUSE THE RETAILERS ARE
TERRIFIED OF INNOVATION, AND
THEY GET ONE LETTER THAT
says “YOU'RE USING
IRRADIATION, I'LL BOYCOTT
YOUR STORE” THIS AND THEY
COLLAPSE.
WE FOUND THIS OUT WITH OUR
GENETICALLY ENGINEERED CORN
THIS YEAR.
WHICH IS ANOTHER TOPIC.

Maureen says YES.

Doug says BUT THEY'RE
WORRIED ABOUT BRAND NAME SO
THERE'S AN APPREHENSION.
BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT
THERE'S MORE THAN ENOUGH
PUBLIC CONCERN ABOUT FOOD
BORNE ILLNESS.
THE RESEARCH'S BEEN DONE
THAT SUPPORTS THIS IF YOU
PUT IT OUT THERE, BUILD IT
AND THEY WILL COME.

Maureen says SO YOU AGREE
WITH DISMIRK.

Doug says NO, NO, NOT
ALL FOOD.
THAT'S SORTS OF THE MAGIC
BULLET ANDRUGS LET'S JUST
ZAP IT.
AND THAT'S A CONCERN,
BECAUSE EVEN IF IT'S IRRADIATED,
YOU TAKE IT HOME AND YOU'RE
SLOPPY WITH IT, IT'S GOING
TO BE CON TAM NATURE.
THERE ARE NO MAGIC BULLETS
IN FOOD SAFITY.
THERE ARE TOOLS AND
TECHNOLOGIES WHICH EACH HAVE
TO BE EVALUATED AND
IRRADIATION IS ONE
ADDITIONAL TOOL TO HELP
ENHANCE THE SAFETY OF THE
FOOD SUPPLY.
IT DOES NOT ABDICATE
SLAUGHTER HOUSES OR FARMERS
OR ANYBODY FROM THEIR
RESPONSIBILITY TO REDUCE
RISK ALONG THAT FARM TO FORK
CHAIN.

Maureen says I SEE.
LISTEN, WE HAVE A LITTLE
MORE THAN 15 MINUTES SO
LET'S BRING UP GENETICALLY
MODIFIED FOOD AND THE ROYAL
SOCIETY OF CANADA'S
PUBLISHED REPORT WHICH WAS
MOSTLY CRITICAL OF HOW MUCH
INFORMATION THEY WERE ABLE
TO GET ABOUT HOW WE TEST
GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO
THEIR REPORT?

Doug says WELL THE
REPORT HAD A NUMBER OF
EXCELLENT RECOMMENDATIONS
THAT MANY OF US HAVE BEEN
ARGUING FOR FOR YEARS IN
TERMS OF INCREASED
TRANSPARENCY.
THAT IS YOU'RE MAKING
SCIENTIFIC DECISIONS ABOUT
WHETHER THESE THINGS ARE
RISKY OR NO PUT THE DATA OUT
IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
THAT'S THE SCIENTIFIC
TRADITION, SO THAT THE REST
OF US CAN HAVE A LOOK AT IT.
SO THAT CONSUMERS WHO CARE
CAN HAVE A LOOK AT IT.
BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU
ENHANCE CONFIDENCE.
THE WORST THING TO DO FOR
CONFIDENCE IS TO SAY “IT'S A
SECRET, YOU CAN'T LOOK AT IT.”
BECAUSE THEN I'M IMMEDIATELY
GOING TO THINK “OH, WHAT'S
GOING ON HERE.”
THE ROYAL SOCIETY WAS
CHARGED SPECIFICALLY TO LOOK
AT INFORMATION PROVIDED BY
THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY --
THIS IS MY READ OF IT.
I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT
BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
REPORT IT'S VERY CRITICAL
BUT IT WAS ALSO VERY HIGHLY
SELECTIVELY REFERENCED, THEY
SEEM TO REFERENCE RISKS BUT
THEY DIDN'T SEEM TO
REFERENCE ANYTHING THAT
BALANCED IT OUT.
THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO
LOOK AT BENEFIT.
THAT'S OKAY.
BUT FOR INSTANCE ON THE
MONARCH BUTTERFLY.
WE ALL HEARD ABOUT THE
MONARCH BUTTERFLY, RIGHT?
B.T. CORN IS KILLING MONARCH
BUTTERFLIES.
THEY HAD THAT REFERENCED BUT
NOT THE 20 OTHER STUD DHEES
SUBSEQUENTLY HAVE BEEN DONE
THAT SHOWS IT'S NOT A RISK
INCLUDING A HUGE REVIEW BY
THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
AGENCY RECEIVE THE UNITED
STATES.
SO THAT KIND OF SELECTIVE
REFERENCES MAKES ME
SUSPICIOUS ABOUT WHAT WAS
GOING ON, AND THEY SAID
“WELL, WE WERE JUST GOING
WITH WHAT THE GOVERNMENT
GAVE US.”
AND I THINK IT'S HAMPERED
THE OVERALL VALUE OF THE
REPORT.
BECAUSE THERE'S SORT OF THIS
ARGUMENT BACK AND FORTH.
WELL THE GOVERNMENT WOULDN'T
TELL US THIS AND THE
GOVERNMENT'S SAYING OH NO,,
WE DID, THEY DIDN'T ASK THE
RIGHT QUESTION.
WHEN THEY RELEASED THE
REPORT THEY HAD DUELING
PRESS CONFERENCES IN AT A
AND I DON'T THINK THAT
SERVES THE PUBLIC GOOD OR
VALUE VERY MUCH.

Maureen says THEY WERE
CRITICAL OF A COUPLE OF
THINGS ON THE PROMOTION AND
RESEARCH SIDE.
AND I'VE ASKED YOU ABOUT
THIS BEFORE.
YOU GET ASKED ALL THE TIME.
RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES OFTEN
GET THEIR RESEARCH FUNDING
FROM THE BIOTECH COMPANIES
LIKE THE MONSANTOS THAT MAKE
THIS SEED SO WHAT'S YOUR
RESPONSE TO PEOPLE WHO SAY
THERE'S A CONFLICT OF
INTEREST THERE?

Doug says OH, SURE,
AND ALSO RESEARCH
UNIVERSITIES IT GET FUNDING
FROM FOOD COMPANIES TO DO
FOOD SAFETY RESEARCH,
FUNDING FROM PHARMACEUTICAL
COMPANIES TO DO MEDICAL
RESEARCH.
THE WAY THAT THIS IS DONE IS
YOU DON'T WANT TAXPAYERS TO
PAY FOR IT ALL.
LET THE COMPANY THAT'S GOING
TO REAP THE FINANCIAL
REWARDS MAKE THAT INVESTMENT.
THE RESEARCH IS DONE ABOVE
BOARD AND AT GUELPH, FOR
INSTANCE, ALL RESEARCH
THAT'S DONE UNDER CONTRACT
HAS TO BE MADE PUBLIC AFTER
A SIX MONTH WAITING PERIOD.
SO YOU'VE GOT A SIX MONTH
GRACE AND YOU SAY “OKAY,
THIS IS WHAT WE'VE FOUND OUT
BUT NOW WE'RE GOING TO GO
AND TELL EVERYBODY.”
WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS AS AN
ACADEMIC, YOU DON'T MAKE BIG
BUCKS BUT DO YOU GET TO COME
ON TALK SHOWS AND SAY WHAT
YOU WANT TO DO.
TALK SHOW, EXACTLY!
BUT THE WHOLE THING IS THAT
INDEPENDENCE.

Maureen says AND YOU VALUE THAT?

Doug says OH, ABSOLUTELY.
THAT'S WHAT YOU DO IT FOR.
AND I'M INTERESTED IN DOING
RESEARCH AND COMING UP WITH
ANSWERS.
MOST OF MY FUNDING COMES
FROM FARMERS, NOT FROM
COMPANIES.

Maureen says OKAY.
ALL RIGHT, LET'S GO TO LINDA
FIRST.
HI LINDA?

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says LINDA'S IN OTTAWA.

The Caller says YES, I'M CALLING
BECAUSE A LITTLE OVER A YEAR
AGO, I HAVE SEVEN-YEAR-OLD
BOY, A LITTLE OVER A YEAR
AGO, HE'S BEEN -- HE HAD --
HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH A
PARASITE, BECAUSE I WAS
GOGHT DOCTOR FOR ONGOING
DIARRHEA, AND IT WOULDN'T GO
AWAY.
THEY DID ALL KINDS OF TESTS
AND EVERYTHING AND GAVE HIM
SOME MEDICINE TO TRY AND GET
RID OF THE PARASITE AND IT
HASN'T GONE AWAY YET.
AND I THINK IT COULD BE
DAIRY-RELATED, BECAUSE ONCE
I STARTED REMOVING HIS DAIRY
PRODUCTS, HE WAS STARTING TO
GET BETTER.
IT'S NOT FULLY GONE AWAY,
AND I WAS WONDERING WHAT YOU
THINK, IF IT COULD VERY WELL
BE DAIRY RELATED AND WHY?
WHY NOW?

Maureen says SEE, YOU SAID
YOU WERE A DOCTOR.

Doug says YEAH, BUT
NOT A MEDICAL DOCTOR.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS EVERY
TIME YOU DO A FOOD SHOW,
THIS MEDICAL STUFF AND I'M
NOT A MEDICAL DOCTOR.
I WANT TO STRESS THAT.
BUT WHAT PARASITE IS IT?
CRYPTOSPORIDIUM.

The Caller says I'M NOT SURE THE
NAME BUT IT WAS SOME WEIRD
STRANGE NAME.
BUT SPECIALIST SAID
SUPPOSEDLY THAT PARASITE
DOESN'T DO ANYTHING IT.
JUST SITS THERE.

Doug says I'M NOT FAMILIAR.
THE COMMON FOOD PARASITES WE
HEAR AND HAVE HAD OUTBREAKS
ARE CRYPTOSPORIDIUM IT GOT
INTO THE WATER SUPPLY IN
KITCHENER IN '93 AND
MILWAUKEE KEY IN '93, MANY
DIED, MOSTLY AIDS PATIENTS,
GIARDIA, SOMETIMES WE CALL
IT BEAVER FEVER, NORTHERN
ONT, THAT'S QUITE PROMINENT
AND A LOW LYING PERSISTENT
THING OR WE'VE HAD SOME
IMPORTED ONES, LIKE
CYCLOSPORIDIA, WE THOUGHT IT
WAS CALIFORNIAN STRAWBERRIES,
TURNED OUT TO BE GUATEMALAN
RASPBERRIES.
IT IS AWFUL.
ONE OF MY FRIENDS GOT SICK
IN ONE OF THE CYCLOSPORA
OUTBREAKS IN TORONTO AND SHE
SAID SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS
GOING TO DIE.
THEY DON'T HAVE A HIGH
MORTALITY RATE BUT YOU ARE
ON THE TOILET FOR A LONG,
LONG TIME AND IT TAKES ABOUT
SIX WEEKS TO CLEAR UP.
I'M GLAD THAT YOU GOT
DIAGNOSED AND THAT THE --
NOT ANTIBIOTICS, BUT
WHATEVER THE MEDICINE IS
SHOULD WORK.
USUALLY THESE ARE CURED VERY
RAPIDLY.
I'M NOT SURE WHY
SPECIFICALLY IN YOUR SON'S
CASE IT'S NOT WORKING OR
IT'S TAKING A LONGER TIME.
AS FAR AS THE DAIRY RELATION,
PASTEURIZATION REMOVES ALL
OF THOSE PARASITES.

Maureen says SO IT'S NOT
GETTING IT --

Doug says HE'S NOT GETTING IT FROM
THAT FOOD PER SE, UNLESS
YOU'RE ON A DAIRY FARM AND
YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH LIVE
ANIMALS.

Maureen says IT SOUNDS LIKE
SHE NEEDS TO PURSUE THIS.

Doug says WITH A
PHYSICIAN, PLEASE.

Maureen says YEAH, WITH A
DOCTOR, ABSOLUTELY.
OKAY, HERE'S AN E-MAIL.
I RECENTLY RETURN FROM A ONE
WEEK RAKE INDICATION AND WAS
QUITE CONCERNED THAT MY FOOD
HAD SPOILED WHEN I GOT HOME,
YOU KNOW?
THE MILK DIDN'T SPOIL, THE
BREAD WASN'T STALE OR MOULDY
AND MY ICEBERG LETTUCE HAD
NO BROWN SPOTS OR EVEN
WILTED LEAF.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN
EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THIS IS
HAPPENING.
IS IT THE CHEMICALS THAT ARE
USED TODAY OR IS IT
GENETICALLY ALTERED FOOD?
IS IT SAFE TO BE CONSUMING
THIS FOOD EVERYDAY?
ACTUALLY IT'S BEEN QUITE A
FEW YEARS SINCE I'VE SEEN
FOOD GO BAD.

Maureen turns away from the computer screen and says
YOU SHOULD COME
AND LIVE WITH ME.
WHY CAN'T WE HAVE MORE
NATURALLY GROWN FOODS AGAIN
OR IS IT ALL BECAUSE OF
PROFITS?
THAT'S FROM SONYA.

Doug says THERE'S A
FEW THINGS MIXED UP IN THERE
BUT IF YOU LOOK, A WEEK IS
NOT THAT LONG OF A TIME.
PASTEURIZATION GIVES YOU A
SHELF LIFE IN DAIRY PRODUCTS
OF ABOUT TEN DAYS.
THERE ARE ADDITIONAL -- AND
THEY'RE ALWAYS REFINING IT.
SHORTER TIMES, HIGHER
TEMPERATURES.
TO REDUCE MORE MICRO
ORGANISMS BUT TO RETAIN THE
NUTRIENTS SO THAT YOU GET
THAT EXTENDED SHELF LIFE.
YOU CAN BUY DAIRY
PRODUCTS -- IN EUROPE,
ESPECIALLY, THEY HAVE
NON-REFRIGERATED DAIRY
THAT'S WIDELY AVAILABLE WITH
A SHELF LIFE OF THREE
MONTHS!
BREAD, SAME THING.
IT LASTS ABOUT A WEEK NOW.

Maureen says WHY?

Doug says AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF --
IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH
GENETIC ENGINEERING.
IT HAS TO DO WITH ADDITIVES
THAT ARE USED IN PREPARING
THAT BREAD AND MOST OF THOSE
ADDITIVES ARE DERIVED FROM
NATURAL SOURCES.
THEY'RE NOT CHEMICAL THINGS,
THEY'RE DERIVED FROM NATURE.
IN SCIENCE WE CAN'T INVENT
THE WORLD BUT WE DO WORK
WITH NATURE AND DRAW FROM IT
AND FIND THINGS AND A NUMBER
OF THOSED AIVES ARE THINGS
THAT HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN
NATURE.

Maureen says COULD YOU USE
SAY BREAD AS AN EXAMPLE AND
TELL US WHAT'S THE
PRESERVATIVE IN BREAD NOW?

Doug says NOT OFF THE
TOP OF MY HEAD.

Maureen says NO?

Doug says BUT WHAT
BREAD DOES -- ESPECIALLY IN
A WEEK -- YOU KNOW WHEN IT
GOES BAD?
WHEN IT'S ON THE COUNTER FOR
A WEEK AND YOU'RE OPENING IT
EVERYDAY BECAUSE THE AIR'S
GOING IN AND FUNGAL SPORES
IN THE AIR ARE GETTING IN
WILL AND YOU GET FUNGAL
GROWTH.
IF SHE WAS AWAY FOR A WEEK
AND NOT OPENING IT BUT IT
SAT THERE, IT'S GOING TO
ACTUALLY LAST LONGER, AND
THAT'S -- ACTUALLY, IT
PROBABLY HAS TO DO MORE WITH
PACKAGING.
AND REFRIGERATION --
WELL NOT FOR BREAD BUT THE
PRODUCE.
I HAVE TO TAKE LETTUCE AND
FEED IT TO CRICKETS SO THAT
I CAN FEED THE CRICKETS TO
MY GECKO, OKAY?

Maureen says AND THE
LETTUCE GOES IN WITH THE
CRICKETS AT ROOM
TEMPERATURE.
THAT LETTUCE IS REALLY
GETTING UGLY AND MOULDY AND
BREAKING DOWN IN ABOUT 24
HOURS.

Doug says AGAIN,
THERE'S BEEN TREMENDOUS
ADVANCES IN REFRIGERATION.
IT USED TO BE THE WAY THE
REFRIGERATOR WORKED, I
UNDERSTAND IT IT WOULD CYCLE
AND YOUR FRIDGE WOULD GO
FROM 35 degrees TO 45 degrees, AND CYCLE
AS IT KICKED IN AND NOW IT
HOLDS A CONSTANT TEMPERATURE
MUCH BETTER.
AND IF YOU TRY AND THAW A
TURKEY OR CHICKEN IT TAKES
FOR NOW IF YOU DO IT IN YOUR
FRIDGE BECAUSE THE FRIDGES
ARE SO MUCH MORE
EFFICIENT.

Maureen says DEBBIE IN
OTTAWA.
HI DEBBIE?

The Caller says HI.
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF
BUYING OUR FRUITS AND
VEGETABLES LOCALLY IN
ONTARIO WOULD BE BETTER FOR
US THAN BUYING APPLES FROM
WASHINGTON OR BANANAS
FROM -- LIKE, THE SOUTHERN
TROPIC AREAS.

Maureen says OKAY.

Doug says OKAY.
THERE'S A COUPLE ISSUES THERE.
FIRST OF ALL WE HAVE TO
RECOGNIZE WE LIVE IN CANADA
AND WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD
BANANA SUPPLY.
WE HAVE TO IMPORT IT.
AND AGAIN IT GOES BACK TO
RISKS AND BENEFIT.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T PRODUCE A
LOT OF CITRUS IN ONTARIO BUT
ABOUT I EAT IT ALL THE TIME
BECAUSE OF THE NUTRITIONAL
BENEFITS OF IT.
SO THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME
TRANSPORTATION AND IT'S A
BALANCE THING.
AS FAR AS LOCAL VERSUS I AM
PORT, I HEAR THIS FROM THE
FARMERS I WORK WITH, BECAUSE
THEY ALL THINK ALL THESE
PROBLEM, IT'S SOMEONE ELSE.
AND THIS IS RISK PERCEPTION
AND WE ALWAYS THINK THAT.
IT ALWAYS HAPPENS TO SOMEONE
ELSE, AND WHAT I CAN TELL
YOU IS THAT FOREVER OUTBREAK
OF AN IMPORTED PRODUCE, I
CAN GIVE YOU A HOME-GROWN
ONE.
SO IT'S NOT A MATTER OF I AM
PORT VERSUS LOCAL.
IT'S A MATTER OF GOOD
FORMERS WHO ARE AWARE OF
MICROBIAL RISKS REMEMBERS US
FARMERS WHO ARE AWARE OF
OTHER THINGS.

Maureen says SO TELL ME ABOUT
THE ONTARIO FOOD TERM FALL
AND WHAT CONCERNS YOU ABOUT
THE PRODUCE THERE.

Doug says A LOT OF THE
PRODUCE LIKE THE BANANAS AND
THOSE ORANGES COMING IN OUT
OF PROVINCE GO THROUGH THE
FOOD TERMINAL, WHICH THEN
GETS DISTRIBUTED -- BIG
GROCERY STORES HAVE THEIR
OWN FOOD TERMINALS.
A LOT OF THE STUFF AT THE
TERMINAL GOES TO FOOD
MARKETS.
I LIVE IN GUELPH.
PEOPLE WHO SELL PRODUCE AT
GUELPH DRIVE DOWN FRIDAY
NIGHT, LOAD UP A TRUCK, BING
IT BACK TO GUELPH, START,
OPEN UP AT 5 a.m. AND THE
MARKET IS A VERY BIG SOCIAL
THING.
AGAIN THIS IS FOOD AND WE
WANT TO ENCOURAGE THOSE
SOCIAL RELATIONSHIP, BUT AT
THE SAME TIME THAT FOOD MAY
NOT HAVE BEEN STORED IN THE
MOST HYGIENIC WAY BECAUSE
THEIR CONCERNED PERHAPS
ABOUT OTHER THINGS.
BUT WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM
TO ENHANCE THEIR FOOD SAFETY
STANDARDS, BECAUSE
EVERYONE'S LOOKING AT IT AND
PEOPLE ARE DEMANDING IT AND
CONSUMERS SHOULD BE MORE
AWARE OF IT AND ASKING FOR
IT.

Maureen says WELL, I THINK
ABOUT FARMER'S MARKETS, TOO,
EH AND THE PRODUCE IS OUT
THERE ALL DAY.
SOMETIMES BEFORE THEY PUT IT
OUT ON THE TABLE THEY HAVE
IT IN BIG VATS.
BIRDS ARE FLYING OVERHEAD
AND DO I JUST HOPE THE BIRD
GO “OH, BETTER NOT DO IT
HERE, THERE'S PRODUCE DOWN
THERE.”

Doug says BIRDS ARE
ACTUALLY A BIG ISSUE.
BIRDS CARRY SALMONELLA AND
CAMPLABACTER NATURALLY AND
WHETHER THEY'RE CRAPPING IN
WATER USED TO IRRIGATE OR IF
THEY'RE GOING DIRECTLY ON
THE PRODUCE, PARDON MY
LANGUAGE, THAT'S A BIG
CONCERN.

Maureen says BUT AT LEAST WE
CAN WASH THAT OFF WHEN WE
GET HOME, RIGHT?

Doug says GENERALLY, AND YOU
PROBABLY WOULDN'T BUY --
FAZ.

Maureen says IF YOU SAW
SOMETHING ON IT.

Doug says BUT YEAH,
GENERAL RULE, WASH YOUR
PRODUCE.
BUT NOW I WORK WITH GROUPS
LIKE THE GREENHOUSE
VEGETABLE GROWERS IN ONTARIO
WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING
INTO EACH OPERATION AND
DOING THE WATER QUALITY TEST,
DOING END PRODUCT TESTING SO
AGAIN, IT'S NOT ENOUGH GIVEN
THE CLIMATE THAT'S OUT
THERE.
PEOPLE ARE SAVVY.
BUT JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE SAY
WORDS LIKE “NATURAL” AND
“FRESH” THAT DOESN'T MEAN
ANYTHING.
WHAT COUNTS IS DO YOU HAVE
THE MICRO BIOLOGICAL DATA TO
BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS THAT
IT'S SAFE?
AND INCREASINGLY COMPANIES
ARE LOOKING FOR THAT.

Maureen says THE OTHER THING
THAT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO
ASK ABOUT, ESPECIALLY IN
TORONTO IS RESTAURANT SAFETY.

Doug says YES.

Maureen says SO NOW THEY'RE
ACTUALLY CLOSING DOWN
RESTAURANTS FOUND TO BE IN
VIOLATION OF CERTAIN HEALTH
REGULATIONS.

Doug says WHICH THEY
SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING ALL
ALONG.

Maureen says WHAT ARE THE
DANGERS TO US IN EATING IN
RESTAURANTS?

Doug says THERE'S A
FEW, AND PRIMARILY NEAR MORE
SOCIOLOGICAL.
THERE'S -- FIRST OF ALL
THERE'S AN OLD SAYING.
EVERY TIME YOU EAT IN A
RESTAURANT, YOU'RE PUTTING
YOUR LIFE IN THE HANDS OF
SOMEONE WHO MAKES MINIMUM
WAGE.
WHICH WON'T GET ME A LOT OF
LETTERS --

Maureen says DIRECT YOUR
LETTERS TO DOUG POWELL,
UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH.

Doug says YES.
THE FIRST THING IS PEOPLE
SAY “WELL I GO TO A HIGH
CLASS RESTAURANT SO IT
DOESN'T HAVE THESE
PROBLEMS.”
I CAN TELL YOU IT DOESN'T
MATTER WHETHER IT'S AN
EXPENSIVE RESTAURANT OR AN
INEXPENSIVE RESTAURANT.
THEY EITHER KNOW ABOUT
BACTERIA OR THEY DON'T.
SOME THINGS TO LOOK FOR, AND
I MEAN, I GO TO ALL THESE
FOOD SAFETY MEETINGS, THEY
ALWAYS SERVE US A SALAD OF
MESCALINE LETTUCE AND
ALFALFA SPROUTS OF WHICH I
WOULDN'T EAT EITHER.

Maureen says WHY NOT?
I'M PAYING ALMOST 6 BUCKS A
POUND FOR MERVEG LYNN
LETTUCE AND IT COULD MAKE ME NICK?
WHAT DO --

Doug says ICEBERG
LETTUCE IS FINE.
YOU GO TO THESE BUFFETS.
BUFFETS ARE BREEDING LOUNDZ
MANY CASES.
THE FOOD STAYS OUT A LONG
TIME.
CANTELO PEMD, MELON.
WHEN YOU SEE THE MELON AND
IT'S CUT THEY KEEP THE SKIN
ON, YOU DON'T WANT THAT.
BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS, THEY
HAVE THESE LITTLE SLICES
WITH THE SKIN ON AND THAT
SKIN'S SITTING ON THE FLESH
OF THE NEXT PIECE AND
THEY'RE LAYERED, WELL THAT
SKIN'S SITTING IN THE
GROUND.
THAT'S WHERE IT STARTED.
THERE'S BEEN LOFTS OUTBREAKS
OF SALMONELLA IN MELONS
BECAUSE OF THAT THROUGH THAT
ROUTE.
BUT AGAIN, MOST RESTAURANTS,
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PUTTING IN
PLACE MANDATORY TRAINING.
THE FAST FOOD INDUSTRY'S
DONE A WONDERFUL JOB IN
TERMS OF BASIC FOOD SAFETY
TRAINING THAT WE USED TO
HAVE IN THINGS LIKE HOME EC.
COURSE.
YOU MAY REMEMBER THOSE, I
DON'T KNOW.
WHERE YOU DID THAT SORT OF
BASICS.
THEY DON'T HAVE THAT ANY
MORE.
THE BIGGEST EDUCATOR OF OUR
KIDS ABOUT THIS FOOD SAFETY
STUFF IS McDonald’s AND
BURGER KING BECAUSE EVERY
SHIFT SUPER VIRUS NOW HAS TO
HAVE GONE THROUGH A SAFE
SERVE PROGRAM.

Maureen says IF YOU HEARD OF
A TRAUNT IN TORONTO THAT GOT
THE RED SIGN AND WAS CLOSED
DOWN TEMPORARILY, WOULD YOU
EVER NEAT THAT RESTAURANT
AGAIN?

Doug says ON CONDITION.
THEY LEARN.
I MEAN, OFTEN TIMES YOU NEED
A DISASTER OR SOMETHING GOOD
HAPPEN TO PUT IN PLACE STUFF
THAT'LL FIX IT.
LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER,
JACK-IN-THE-BOX 1993, 400
DIED, 700 GOT SICKED BY
UNDERCOOKED FASTFOOD
BURGERS.
THEY PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST
ELABORATE FOOD SAFETY SYSTEM
NOW OF ANY THE FAST FOOD
JOINTS BECAUSE THEY LEARNED
THEIR LESSON.

Maureen says SOMETIME YOU
LEARN FROM THE MISTAKES.
OKAY, LESS THAN A MINUTE
LEFT.
WHAT'S NUMBER ONE THING YOU
WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY
TODAY AS FAR AS KEEPING YOUR
FAMILY SAFE WHEN IT COMES TO
FOOD.

Doug says BE KAY.
ALL RISK MANAGEMENT IS BE
CAREFUL.
I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO
BECOME COMPULSIVE.
WE HAVE -- AS A SOCIETY,
WE'RE MESSED UP ABOUT FOOD
ENOUGH AS IT IS.
I GOT FOUR DAUGHTERS.
THREE OF THEM ARE IN THE
ROOM OVER THERE, BECAUSE
THEY GOT OUT OF SCHOOL
EARLY.
AND IT STARS IN THE
KINDERGARTEN.
THE PRESSURE TO CONFORM,
BODY SHAPE AND WHAT YOU
SHOULD EAT AND SHOULDN'T
EAT.
I THINK ENJOY YOUR FOOD, AND
WITH A LITTLE BIT OF
KNOWLEDGE YOU CAN ENJOY IT
EVEN MORE AND NOT END UP ON
THE TOILET.

Maureen says VERY GOOD.
NICE WAY TO PUT IT.
THANK YOU.
GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

Doug says THANKS.

Maureen says ALL RIGHT, GO
GET THOSE KIDS BUT HANG ON.
PROFESSOR DOUG POWELL, A
PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT
OF PLANT AGRICULTURE AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH.
YOU CAN FIND OUT MORE AT HIS
WEBSITE, the Food Safety Network,
www.plant.uoguelph.ca/safefood
Interesting program.
Thanks for watching today’s More to Life.
I’m Maureen Taylor inviting you to tune in again Monday through Friday at 1 o’clock.


A closing slate reads “The advice given in the preceding program is of a general nature only. Viewers should consult their own medical professional for medical advice specific to their circumstances.”

Watch: Food Safety