Transcript: Reality TV | Jan 30, 2001

The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: “More to life.”

Karen Horsman sits in a studio with yellow walls and a carved board that reads “More to life” in the background.

Karen is in her late thirties, with short wavy brown hair. She wears a black V-neck blouse and a gray tweed jacket.

Karen says HELLO, I'M KAREN
HORSMAN SITTING IN FOR
MAUREEN TAYLOR.
WELCOME TO “MORE TO LIFE.”
SO, ARE YOU GUNNING FOR KIM
ME THE JOKESTER OR KEITH THE
CONTROLLER?
OR ARE YOU WAITING FOR
ANOTHER SNAKE LIKE RICHARD
HATCH TO EMERGE?
SOUND LIKE A SHAKESPEAREAN
DRAMA UNFOLDING?
NO, IT'S ANOTHER INSTALLMENT
OF SURVIVOR.
THIS TIME FRESH FROM THE
AUSTRALIAN OUTBACK.
IT'S THE FIRST TV HIT OF THE
MILLENNIUM AND MANY ARE
ASKING THIS QUESTION: IS
REALITY BASED TELEVISION IS
A FAD OR IS IT A SIGN WE'RE
LOOKING FOR MORE INTERACTIVE
IN TERMS OF OUR TELEVISION
VIEWING?
HERE TO DISCUSS
REALITY-BASED PROGRAMMING IS
ANTONIA ZERBISIAS AND JOHN
DOYLE FROM THE OTHER TRIBE.
HE'S FROM THE “GLOBE AND MAIL,”
HE'S A TELEVISION CRITIC.
AND WE WANT TO HEAR FROM
YOU.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
TEMPTATION ISLAND?
SURVIVOR?
THE MOLE?
HOW ABOUT WHO WANTS TO MARRY
A MILLIONAIRE?
LOVE OR HATE IT, WE WANT TO
KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
CALL US HERE IN TORONTO,
THE NUMBER IS 416 484-2727.
LONG DISTANCE, OUR TOLL FREE
NUMBER 1-888-411-1234
AND YOU CAN E-MAIL YOUR QUESTION TO
MORETOLIFE@TVO.ORG
WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.
THANKS FOR COMING IN.
LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR
PERSPECTIVE ON THIS LET'S
START FIRST WITH SURVIVOR
2, DEBUTTED SUNDAY NIGHT.
ANTONIA, WHAT DID YOU THINK?

A caption reads “Antonia Zerbisias. Television critic.”

Antonia is in her forties, with shoulder length curly blond hair. She wears black trousers, a black sweater and a tan leather jacket.

She says AS I WROTE IN THE STAR
YESTERDAY, IT'S A REPLAY OF
SURVIVOR 1.
THEY'RE A LITTLE PRETTIER
THAN LAST TIME, YOUNGER,
THINNER, LOOK BETTER IN
BIKINIS AND I'M STILL NOT
SURE ALL OF THEM AREN'T
CHEMICALLY ENHANCED AT ONE
POINT OR ANOTHER.
BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO
BE SEEING THE SAME THING.
AND YOU KNOW, GROUP DYNAMICS,
YOU CAN WRITE THE SAME
BOOKS.
IT'S GOING TO PLAY OUT
EXACTLY THE SAME SO MY
ATTITUDE IS HO HUM.

Karen says BUT YOU WERE A
HUGE FAN THE FIRST TIME
AROUND.

Antonia says OH, I LOVED IT BECAUSE IT
WAS SURPRISING.
IT WAS NOVEL.
IT WAS THE FIRST TIME.
BUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T JUST
MILK THE SAME THING OVER AND
OVER AGAIN NO MATTER HOW
MANY SNAKES OR CROCODILES OR
SPIDERS YOU CAN STICK INTO A
SCENE.

Karen says JOHN WHAT DID YOU
THINK?

The caption changes to “John Doyle. Television critic.”

John is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven and with short straight light brown hair. He wears a black suit, blue shirt and patterned tie.

He says WELL, ANTONIA IS RIGHT TO
SOME EXTENT.
THEY ARE YOUNGER AND
PRETTIER.
I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE
MORE A BIT MORE GROTESQUE
THAN THE FIRST SURVIVOR.
PARTLY BECAUSE ALL THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE ON IT HAVE
SEEN THE FIRST ONE.
THEY PROBABLY WATCHED TAPES
OF IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
THEY'RE ALERT FOR THE
MANIPULATIONS AND THE
ALLIANCES AND EVERYTHING SO
IT'S GOING TO BE A BIT MORE
TENSE.
I THINK YOU COULD ALREADY
SEE IN THE FIRST ONE THAT IT
WAS BETTER EDITED THAN THE
FIRST SEASON.
YOU WERE STRAIGHT INTO THE
MANIPULATION, THE TENSIONS,
THE FEUDS, AND I SUSPECT
IT'S GOING TO BES BIG A
HIT BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO
HAVE THE SAME KIND OF
IMPACT.

Karen says WE GET TO THE
DEFINITION OF REALITY
TELEVISION THEN.
BECAUSE IF THESE CHARACTER,
THE 16 THAT HAVE BEEN CHOSEN
WHO WERE AUDITIONED OUT OF
50,000 APPARENTLY ARE BEING
TOLD AND CRITICIZED
APPARENTLY CONSTANTLY DURING
THE FILMING TO STOP PLAYING
UP TO THE CAMERA, HOW MUCH
THIS IS REALITY AND HOW MUCH
THIS IS ACTING?

Antonia says THERE IS NO REALITY
TELEVISION.
EVEN THIS IS NOT REALITY
TELEVISION.
I MEAN, JOHN AND I, WE'RE
SELECTED TO BE HERE BECAUSE
WE HAVE OPPOSING VIEWS ON
THIS MATTERS.
THERE'S NO SUCH -- NOT EVEN
THE NEWS.
WHEN A NEWS CAMERA CHOOSES
FOR EXAMPLE DURING A
DEMONSTRATION THAT CAN BE
TOTALLY PEACEFUL EXCEPT FOR
THREE GUYS OVER THERE
RIOTING, THAT'S WHERE THE
CAMERA'S GOING TO GO.
IS THAT REAL?
IS THAT A FAIR AND REAL
INTERPRETATION OR
REPRESENTATION OF THAT
DEMONSTRATION?
NO.
SO OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE
GOING -- LISTEN, I CAN'T
HELP BUT LOOK AT THE CAMERA.
I KNOW IT'S THERE.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY
REALLY.
SO --

Karen says BUT THE GENRE IS
SUPPOSED TO BE SO NEW, JOHN.
THIS IDEA THAT REALITY, WE
ARE ACTUALLY THE VOYEUR.
THAT'S WHAT WAS PART OF THE
APPEAL IN ROUND ONE.

John says WELL, IT'S NOT NEW.
REALITY TELEVISION HAS BEEN
THERE SINCE THE 1950s ON
AMERICAN NETWORKS.
FOR A START, PRODUCERS AND
BROADCASTERS FIGURED OUT
THAT IT WAS CHEAPER TO HAVE
REAL PEOPLE THAN ACTORS AND
DIRECTORS AND SCRIPT WRITERS
AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING
SO THERE WERE GAME SHOWS AND
TALK SHOWS THAT WERE REALITY
TELEVISION IN THE 1950s.

Antonia says CANDID CAMERA.

Karen says YEAH, THAT'S A
GOOD EXAMPLE.
RIGHT.
YOU KNOW WHAT?
LET'S GO TO THE CLIP AND
HAVE A LOOK.
SURVIVOR 2.
LET'S GET A SENSE.
IN CASE YOU'VE MISSED IT
THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
WE'VE GOT A CLIP FOR YOU.

A clip rolls with the caption “Courtesy of Global Television.”

The cast of survivor 2 appears on screen.

The announcer says NO WONDER THESE FACES ARE
SMILING.
THIS GROUP HAS A LOT TO BE
HAPPY ABOUT.
THEY'RE THE 16 CASTAWAYS FOR
SURVIVOR 2.
CHOSEN FROM 49,000 CANDIDATE,
THEY'RE YOUNGER, WISER,
LEANER, AND MEANER.

A female participant says I'M NOT JUST A SWEET
LITTLE INNOCENT GIRL THAT
THEY CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.

Another female participant says I CAN GET UGLY FAST.

The announcer says AND THEY'RE NOT SHY ABOUT
WHY THEY'RE HERE.

A male participant says THE ADVENTURE.
AND ALSO THE MONEY.

The announcer says THERE'S EVERYONE FROM
BARTENDERS TO SHOE DESIGNER,
SOFTWARE PUBLISHERS AND A
SCHOOL TEACHER.

An older male participant says OUR DAUGHTER SAYS I'M OLD
FASHIONED.
SHE SAYS THAT'S ONE THING
THAT'S GOING TO HURT ME.

The announcer says HE'S AN ARMY OFFICER AND
THERE'S EVEN A GOURMET CHEF
WHO'S READY TO COOK.

A male participant in his forties says I'M THINKING STEWS.
I'M SEEING THIS YAMSTEW WITH
THIS WITCHITA GRUB.

The announcer says NOT TO MENTION ASPIRING
ACTRESS, PHYSICAL TRAIN, LAW
STUDENT AND YES, EVEN A
MEN'S PRISON GUARD.

A female participant says I WANTED A JOB WHERE I
COULD DO WHAT I LOVE BEST,
THAT'S ORDER MEN AROUND.
LOCK 'EM UP IF THEY DON'T
BEHAVE.

The announcer says SOME ARE NAUGHTY.

A male participant in his thirties says I'M A TROUBLE MAKER FROM
WAY BACK WHEN AND I STILL AM
A TROUBLE MAKER.

The announcer says AND SOME ARE NICE.

A female participant in her mid-forties says IF YOU CAN KICKOFF ALL
THE MEAN, HATEFUL, SNOTTY
FASTY HATEFUL PEOPLE THEN
YOU'RE JUST LEFT WITH ALL
THE GOOD, HAPPY, FUN PEOPLE.

The announcer says PRETTY GOOD ADVICE.
EXCEPT THIS RICHARD WANNA BE
SAYS NO WAY.

A male in his thirties says I'M NOT GOING OUT THERE
TO MAKE FRIENDS, I DON'T
CARE ABOUT ANY OF THESE
PEOPLE.
I'M VOTING THEM OFF ONE AT A
TIME.
I'M WINNING THIS MONEY.

Karen says INCREDIBLE!
I MEAN, YOU COULD SEE THAT
IN THAT LITTLE PROMOTIONAL
CLUB, AND -- CLIP, AND ALSO
SEEING THE DEBUT EPISODE ON
SUNDAY NIGHT THAT THIS IS
ABOUT PLAYING UP THE DYNAMICS
AND THE HATRED AND THE
POSSIBILITY CONFLICT IT.
JUST, IT JUST FEELS TO ME
COMPLETELY CONTRIVED AND I
GOT TO BE HONEST, I'M NOT A
FAN OF THIS STUFF.
I THINK IT'S, IT'S GARBAGE.

Antonia says WELL I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S
GARBAGE.
THERE'S A LOT OF REAL
GARBAGE ON TV.
I THINK THERE'S SOME
REDEEMING QUALITIES TO
SURVIVOR.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, OFFICE
POLITICS.
I MEAN, THAT COMPARISON HAS
BEEN MADE TO SURVIVOR.
LET'S FACE IT, THERE'S A LOT
OF BACKSTABBING AND ALLIANCE
FORMING AND ALL THAT STUFF
THAT GOES ON IN THE
WORKPLACE EVERYDAY.

Karen says DO YOU THINK
THAT'S WHAT IT IS THEN?
WE IDENTIFY WITH SO
CHARACTERS OR SUPPOSEDLY TRY
TO IDENTIFY, JOHN THAT WE
SEE THE PERSON THAT WE WORK
WITH EVERYDAY, AND MAYBE IN
MAYBE THAT CHEF OR --

John says IT'S POSSIBLE TO PUT AN
ELABORATE PSYCHOLOGICAL SPIN
ON IT BUT MOSTLY I THINK
IT'S THE GROTESQUE THAT
WE'RE WATCHING.
IT'S LIKE WATCHING A CAR
ACCIDENT FOR THE MOST PART.
AND SURVIVOR ISN'T THE WORST
OF IT.
THERE ARE FAR WORSE REALITY
SHOWS THAN IT ON TELEVISION.

Karen says YOU KNOW WHAT?
I WANT TO BRING DEAN IN.
HE'S CALLING IN FROM
MISSISSAUGA AS WE TALK ABOUT
REALITY TV.
HI DEAN?
HI DEAN, ARE YOU WITH US?

Dean says HI.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A
COMMENT.

Karen says OKAY.

Dean says I HEARD THE
ATTRACTIVE, YOUNG LOOKING
BLOND LADY THERE SAY THAT
THERE'S MORE TRIPE ON TV,
GARBAGE, BUT IF THERE WASN'T
VIEWERS TO WATCH THIS STUFF,
YOU KNOW, IT'S -- ALL IT IS,
REALLY, IS THE EPITOME OF
THE DECLINE OF THE HUMAN
CONDITION AND THE GREAT
SOCIETY.
AND OH -- AND TO THE BLOND
LADY THERE --

Karen says ANTONIA --

Dean says I'D LIKE TO MAKE
A COMMENT IN A POETIC SENSE,
I GUESS, YOU, AND PEOPLE
LIKE YOURSELF ARE SIMPLY THE
EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES AND NO
ONE KNOWS YOU ARE FULL OF
HOLES AND MAYBE THEY SO FOR
KEEPING YOU AROUND AND I
GUESS YOU BETTER TAKE
YOURSELF BACK TO THE LOST
AND FOUND.

Antonia says OH, THANK YOU, AFTER THAT
NICE COMPLIMENT.
THANKS A LOT, DEAN.

Karen says YOU KNOW WHAT?
HE LOOKS LIKE HE'S
AUDITIONING FOR ONE OF THESE
CLOTHES.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE
LOOKING FOR.
HE COULDN'T SCRIPT IT
BETTER.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE HE PLANTED
THAT TO CREATE SOME SORT OF
ANIMOSITY BETWEEN -- AND
THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE
THRIVING ON.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE THAT
CAN GET THROUGH, AND IT'S
NOT NICE, BUT --

Antonia says IT'S OKAY, I CAN DISH IT
OUT AND I CAN TAKE IT.

Karen says BUT THIS IS WHAT
IT'S ABOUT, YOU GET THIS
ALMOST THAT WE WANT TO SEE
THAT HARDER SIDE OF REALITY,
AND HE WAS SAYING THAT
IT'S -- BUT I HAVE HEARD
THIS BEFORE, NOT THAT
ANYTHING ELSE HE SAID WAS
LEGITIMATE, BUT THAT THIS
TYPE OF REALITY STUFF WAS A
SYMBOL OF THE DECAY OF
SOCIETY, THAT IF THE RATINGS
ARE THERE TO SHOW THAT WE
LIKE THIS TYPE OF STUFF --

Antonia says YOU KNOW WHAT?
WHO DIDN'T SEE GLAD YATE FOR, --
GLADIATOR, RIGHT?
TO ME, WATCHING SURVIVOR OR
TEMPTATION ISLAND OR THE
WORST OF THE REALITY SHOWS,
YET TO COME, SURE BEATS
GOING OUT TO PUBLIC HANGINGS,
FLOGGINGS, BURNINGS AT THE
STAKE.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT
CIVILIZATION HAS CONSIDERED
ENTERTAINMENT IN THE PAST,
COCKFIGHTING, BULL FIGHTING,
DOG FIGHTING, YOU NAME IT I
MEAN, THIS IS NOTHING.
THIS IS JUST FOR FUN.

Karen says WELL, YOU SAY THAT
IT'S GONE BACK TO THE '50s
THAT WE'VE ALWAYS HAD
REALITY TELEVISION, AND I
JUST THINK THAT WE LOOK AT
DOING IT BIGGER, BETTER,
MORE GLAMOROUS AND THERE'S
MORE MONEY INVOLVED, IN THE
1950s, CANDID CAMERA, WHO
WAS QUEEN FOR THE DAY.
WHAT ERA IS THAT?

John says THAT STARTED IN THE 1950s
AND IT RAN FOR YEARS AND
YEARS IN SLIGHTLY IS
DIFFERENT FORMATS BUT
ESSENTIALLY IT WAS A BUNCH
OF PEOPLE, WOMEN IN A
STUDIO, AND IN ORDER TO
BECOME QUEEN FOR A DAY,
WHICH THEY GOT PRIZES, CASH
AND GOODS AND SO ON, AND
THEY GOT A CAPE AND A TIARA
PUT ON THEM, THEY HAD TO
COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER
FOR THE WORST HARD-LOOK
STORY.
THEY HAD TO TELL STORIES
ABOUT HOW HARD THEIR LIFE
WAS, HOW THE HUSBANDLESS HIS
JOB, HOW THEIR CHILDREN WERE
ILL AND ALL THAT SORT OF
THING AND THEY COMPETED WITH
EACH OTHER, AND PEOPLE
APPLAUDED ACCORDING TO HOW
BAD THE STORY WAS.
AND THERE WAS ACTUALLY AN
APPLAUSE METRE.

Antonia says METRE, YEAH.

John says WHICH SHOWED WHO GOT THE
BIGGEST APPLAUSE FOR THE
WORST STORY.

Karen says THAT'S AWFUL.

John says AND THAT WOMAN USUALLY
CAME FORWARD AND WAS IN
TEARS AND GOT A FAKE CLOAK
PUT AROUND HER AND MONEY AND
CRASH.

Antonia says REFRIGERATORS AND
STOVES --

Karen says I THOUGHT
TEMPTATION ISLAND WAS BAD.
THAT'S RIGHT UP THERE, TOO.
I WANT TO GIVE THE PHONE
NUMBERS HERE IN TORONTO.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REALITY
BASED TELEVISION AND WHETHER
OR NOT YOU'RE A FAN, LOVE OR
HATE THEM.
GOT A FEW DIFFERENT OPINIONS
HERE AND WE WANT YOURS.
IN TORONTO, THE NUMBER IS 416 484-2727.
LONG DISTANCE, OUR TOLL FREE
NUMBER 1-888-411-1234
AND YOU CAN E-MAIL YOUR QUESTION TO
MORETOLIFE@TVO.ORG
REALITY TV, LOVE OR HATE IT.
LET'S GO TO JOHN WHO'S CALL
IN FROM LONDON.
HI JOHN.
ARE YOU THERE?
ARE YOU WITH US, John.

John says HI, SORRY ABOUT
THAT.

Karen says HI, THAT'S OKAY,
GO AHEAD.

John says HI, HOW ARE YOU?

Karen says FINE, THANKS.

John says YEAH, I DON'T
LIKE THE REALITY SHOWS.
I THINK THEY'RE A WASTE OF
TV SPACE.

Karen says IS THERE ONE IN
PARTICULAR YOU LIKE THE
LEAST?

John says PROBABLY SURVIVOR
OR THAT BIG BROTHER.

Karen says OKAY, LET'S GETS
INTO BIG BROTHER, WE'VE
MENTIONED SURVIVOR, TOUCHED
ON TEMPTATION ISLAND, BUT I
WANT TO GET TO THAT ONE.
BIG BROTHER WAS A DIFFERENT
SORT OF WAY OF DOING THINGS
AND YOU WROTE A LOT ABOUT IT
IN THE FALL SO LET ME ASK
YOU, ANTONIA HOW IT WORKED?

Antonia says BIG BROTHER BASICALLY PUT
TEN PEOPLE IN WHAT I CALL AN
IKEA BOX HOUSE THAT WAS
WIRED WITH I THINK 65
CAMERAS AND 120 MICS.
EVEN THE BATHROOM WAS
COMPLETELY WIRED.
WHEN PEOPLE BRUSHED THEIR
TEETH IT WAS LIKE THIS.
AND THE GAME WAS THAT EVERY
TWO WEEKS THE PLAYERS WOULD
NOMINATE ONE AMONGST -- TWO
AMONGST THEMSELVES FOR
BANISHMENT, AND THEN THE
AUDIENCE, THROUGH CALL-IN OR
INTERNET WOULD VOTE ON WHO
GOD BAN FINISHED AND THE
WINNER WOULD WALK AWAY WITH
HALF A MILLION DOLLARS.
AND IT FAILED ON MANY
LEVELS.
PARTLY BECAUSE IT CAME ON AT
THE SAME TIME AS -- OR JUST
SHORTLY AFTER SURVIVOR, SO
IN COMPARISON IT DIDN'T DO
SO WELL.
IT WAS ON FIVE DAYS A WEEK,
WHICH IS PRETTY CHALLENGING.

Karen says THAT'S INTENSE.

Antonia says AND MOST IMPORTANT THOUGH
THEY CAST THE PEOPLE BADLY.
THE TWO MOST INTERESTING AND
CONTENTIOUS CHARACTERS --
THE ONES THAT WERE REALLY
FUN TO WATCH, THE NOT NICE
PEOPLE, WERE THE FIRST TWO
TO GO.
YOU KNOW?
SO THAT KIND OF -- THEN THE
REST WERE ALL GETTING ALONG
SO WELL THAT AT ONE POINT
THEY ALL DECIDED THAT THEY
WERE GOING TO WALK OUT
TOGETHER RATHER THAN ANYBODY
WALK AWAY WITH THE MONEY.
SO IT JUST IT JUST BLEW IT.
IT WAS BAD CASTING.

Karen says BUT IT ADDED THE
ELEMENT OF VLG THE VIEWER
BEING ABLE TO VOTE -- OF
HAVING THE VIEWER BEING ABLE
TO VOTE AND ADDING THE
INTERACTIVITY SOME HAVE
SUGGESTED WE WANT.

Antonia says WELL, IT WAS A SUCCESS ON
THAT KIND OF LEVEL AND IT
WAS A SUCCESS IN A SENSE
THAT IT WAS THE FIRST KIND
OF TELEVISION SHOW TO MY
KNOWLEDGE TOLY MARRY THE
INTERNET AND TV SUCCESSFULLY
BECAUSE AS SOON AS THE TV
SHOW WENT OFF YOU COULD
SWITCH BACK TO THE INTERNET
OR WATCH THE INTERNET AT THE
SAME TIME AND SEE WHAT WAS
REALLY GOING ON, THE
UNEDITED VERSION WHICH
UNFORTUNATELY WAS A LOT LIKE
WATCHING PAINT DRY.
BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF STUFF
THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.
AND OF COURSE THE AUDIENCE
PARTICIPATION GOT TO BE
COMPLETELY SURPRISING WITH
PEOPLE HIRING PLANES WITH
BANNERS TO FLY OVER THE
COMPOUND, TELLING THEM WHAT
WAS GOING ON OUT THERE AND
HOW --

Karen says YOU KNOW, THAT IS
ONE THING THAT IS AMAZING
AROUND ALL OF THIS REALITY
TV, IS THE AMOUNT OF HYPE
AND INTEREST AND MEDIA INPUT
WITH SURVIVOR 2 OUT IN
AUSTRALIA, THEY'VE GOT
HELICOPTERS THAT ARE
ACTUALLY PROTECTING THE
AREA --

Antonia says I DON'T LIKE HEARING THAT
AND THE REASON, EVEN BIG
BROTHER, WHICH WAS
CONSIDERED A FAILURE WAS
STALE BASICALLY A TOP 20
SHOW, GOT AT LEAST 20
MILLION PEOPLE PER NIGHT,
WHICH WAS A LOT MORE PEOPLE
THAN WENT TO SEE THE MOVIE
GLADIATOR.
SO YOU KNOW, FIGURE IT OUT?
WHO'S GETTING THE MOST HYPE
FOR WHAT REASON?

Karen says DO YOU THINK THAT
PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT THEY
DON'T LIKE IT LIKE ME, I
COME RIGHT OUT, I'M NOT
AFRAID TO SAY I THINK MOST
OF IT'S GARBAGE AND YOU AND
I DISAGREE ON THAT BUT I'VE
HEARD THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME
CAN THINK WE'RE ELITIST,
WE'RE TOO GOOD FOR THIS
MAINSTREAM TELEVISION.

Antonia says WELL THERE'S A LOT OF
REALITY TV AND WE SHOULD LET
JOHN JUMP IN HERE.
IF YOU FLIP OVER TO TLC
RIGHT NOW YOU'RE GOING TO
SEE A DATING STORY.

Karen says NOT THAT WE WANT ANYBODY
TO DO THAT.

Antonia says NO.
IT'S NOT LIKE BLIND DATE.
THERE'S NO COMEDY ASPECT.
TWO PEOPLE SET UP TWO
FRIENDS ON A DATE AND WE
FOLLOW THEM AROUND AND A
WEDDING STORY AND A WEDDING
STORY AND BABY STORIES, AND
MOVING STORIES.
EVERY GARDENING SHOW,
COOKING SHOW IS SUPPOSEDLY
REALITY TV.
ARE THEY ALL CRAP?!

Karen says BUT IT'S AN
ELEMENT OF TASTE THOUGH.
IT CAN BE DONE TASTEFULLY.

John says WELL, THERE'S A WHOLE
HISTORY OF REALITY
TELEVISION THAT GOES BACK
FROM BIG BROTHER.
THE FLY ON THE WALL
DOCUMENTARY HAS BEEN A
STAPLE OF TELEVISION, BOTH
HERE AND IN EUROPE FOR
YEARS.
AND SOME OF IT'S BEEN REALLY
GOOD.
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT A
POWERFUL INSTANCE OF REALITY
TELEVISION IN THE FORM OF A
FLY ON THE WALL DOCUMENTARY,
THE CBC'S “THE TROUBLE WITH
EVERYONE” A FEW YEARS AGO
WAS BRILLIANT TELEVISION,
AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT
WAS GOOD.
IT ACTUALLY DID SOME GOOD.
BUT THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH
DIFFERENCE IN TELEVISION
TERMS BETWEEN THAT AND BIG
BROTHER.

Karen says TWIN THAT AND
SURVIVOR I SNIMD.

John says NO, NOT BETWEEN PEOPLE'S
HISTORY OF CANADA, BUT
BETWEEN THE FLY ON THE WALL
DOCUMENTARY, THAT IS YOU
JUST PUT THE CAMERA IN THERE
LIKE THE FLY ON THE WALL AND
IT WATCHES REAL PEOPLE DO
GOOD THINGS OR BAD THINGS
AND REVEALS A LOT TO US.

Karen says SO THAT FARM OF
DOCUMENTARY-MAKING AS OPPOSE
TO THE OFFICIAL --

John says YEAH, IT'S ALSO CHEAP,
IT'S VERY CHEAP TO DO AND
ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
THERE'S A LOT OF REALITY
TELEVISION NOW AND ONE OF
THE REASONS WHY THE FLY ON
THE WALL DOCUMENTARY STARTED
IS BECAUSE IT'S VERY CHEAP.
YOU JUST PUT IN A CAM RAM
AND IT WATCHES PEOPLE.

Karen says BUT IS THIS CHEAP?
ANTONIA WITH SURVIVOR 2,
THE CREW APPARENTLY THAT IS
THERE AND THEIR
ACCOMMODATION, THAT'S GOT TO
BE COSTLY.

Antonia says I'M SURE IT'S COSTLY, BUT
THERE'S NO WAY -- I MEAN
ALTHOUGH THIS TIME I'M SURE
THEY'RE REALLY -- BECAUSE
IT'S SUCH AN ECONOMIC
SUCCESS, BUT LET'S TAKE THE
FIRST ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN
THEY ONLY HAD ABOUT 200
PEOPLE WORKING BEHIND THE
SCENES, IT'S STILL CHEAPER
THAN AN EPISODE OF E.R.
CONSIDER MOST DRAMAS FOR
THAT MATTER, YOU'RE STILL
GOING TO HAVE 200 PEOPLE
BEHIND THE SCENES DOING THE
MAKE-UP AND COSTUMES AND
SETS AND ALL THAT KIND OF
STUFF.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO PATE
ACTORS.
YEAH, SOMEBODY WALKS AWAY
WITH A MILLION BUT THE GUYS
ON E.R. WALK AWAY WITH A
MILLION DOLLARS EVERY WEEK
SO OF COURSE IT'S A LOT
CHEAPER.
AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT,
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE SO MANY
CHANNELS AND THE DIAL IS
EXPANDING SO QUICKLY THAT
THERE IS NO WAY, NO WAY THAT
FIRST OF ALL THERE'S THE
MONEY OR THE CREATIVE TALENT
TO COME UP WITH THE KINDS OF
FICTIONAL PROGRAMMING THAT
PEOPLE SEEM TO -- WELL, THEY
SAY THAT THEY PREFER.
THE SITCOMS -- THERE'S SO
MANY BAD SITCOMS THAT COME
OUT EVERY YEAR.
IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE MISSING
ANYTHING.

Karen says AND YOU BOTH OF
YOU SEE A LOT OF THEM.

John says THE THING TO REMEMBER, I
THINK IS IT'S NOT PART OF
THE DECLINE OF CIVILIZATION.
IT'S JUST TELEVISION.
TELEVISION IS THE MOST
DERISKIVE AND COPYCAT OF ALL
THE MEDIA.
THIS IS A PHASE IN
TELEVISION RIGHT NOW AND
SURVIVOR WAS A HIT, YOU'RE
GOING TO GET COPYCATS, IT'S
GOING TO LAST FOR A YEAR, 18
MONTHS, TWO TV SEASONS
MAXIMUM UNTIL THE PUBLIC AND
ADVERTISERS TIRE OF IT AND
THEN IT GOES BACK TO
SOMETHING ELSE.

Antonia says OH, I DISAGREE.
I THINK PAIN WE'LL SEE THE
END OF THESE GAMES WHERE
PEOPLE GET VOTED AND BAN
FINISHED AND ALL OF THAT
STUFF BUT WE'LL CONTINUE TO
SEE MORE AND MORE REALITY TV,
SIMPLY BECAUSE THE ECONOMICS
DEMAND IT.
YOU'VE GOT TO FILL ALL THOSE
CHANNELS WITH SOMETHING, AND
ALSO THE TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS
IT.
A SHOW LIKE BLIND DATE FOR
EXAMPLE WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO
TEN YEARS AGO BECAUSE YOU
DIDN'T HAVE THE LITTLE TINY
CAMERAS AND THE PORTABILITY
THAT YOU HAVE NOW AND THE
RAPID EDITING SYSTEMS.
SO WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE
AND MORE AND MORE.

Karen says BUT WHAT YOU SAID,
JOHN, THOUGH, I MEAN,
CONSIDERING THAT THIS IS
YOUR WORK, YOUR INDUSTRY,
BOTH OF YOU ARE TELEVISION
CRITICS, I DON'T THINK WITH
THIS AUDIENCE THAT IT'S
UNFAIR TO SAY THAT
TELEVISION IS IMPORTANT.
I MEAN, THE AMOUNT OF -- THE
POWER IT HAS, THE IMPACT IT
HAS, THE FACT IT'S A SYMBOL
OF PULP CULTURE, IT IS
REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT'S
GOING ON IN OUR SOCIETY.
I'M SURPRISED TO HEAR YOU
DOWNPLAY THE IMPACT OF
TELEVISION.

John says WELL, I DON'T DOWNPLAY
THE IMPACT OF TELEVISION, I
JUST DECLINE TO SAY THAT
REALITY TELEVISION IS PART
OF THE DECLINE OF
CIVILIZATION.
IT ISN'T.
I MEAN, IF YOU WANT, YOU CAN
PUT ALL KINDS OF SPINS ON
THE IMPORTANCE OR NOT OF
REALITY TELEVISION.
YOU CAN LOOK AT IT IN TERMS
OF PSYCHOLOGY.
YOU CAN LOOK AT IT EVEN IN
TERMS OF NARRATIVE IN
LITERATURE.
YOU CAN SAY THAT SURVIVOR IS
REALLY SOMETHING THAT'S
GOING BACK TO ROBINSON
CRUSOE, TO THAT WHOLE
EXPERIENCE OF PEOPLE BEING
ISOLATED FROM CULTURE AND
CIVILIZATION AND GOING BACK
TO THE PRIMITIVE AND SEEING
HOW THEY SURVIVE --

Karen says YEAH, WITH LOTS OF
BIKINIS AND HARD BIBLES.

Antonia says GO BACK TO THE BIBLE,
ACTUALLYING, ALL THE WAY
BACK.

Karen says GOT AN E-MAIL FOR
YOU.
I THINK SHOWS LIKE THAT, WHO
FEATURE NEW FACE, BODY, NOT
NECESSARILY ALL PERFECT ARE
INTERESTING, BECAUSE IT KIND
OF COMES DOWN TO THE LEVEL
THE ORDINARY PERSON AND
MAKES TELEVISION NOT SO
UNTOUCHABLE FOR THE REST OF
US WHO LOOK AT MOVIE STARS
AS BEING A DIFFERENT CLASS
OF PEOPLE.
WE REALIZE THAT PEOPLE LIKE
OURSELVES ARE ON TELEVISION
AND THAT PERSONALITY HAS A
LOT TO DO WITH HOW OTHERS
RELATE TO YOU AS OPPOSED TO
JUST LOOKS.
SO SHOWS LIKE “WHOSE LINE IS
IT ANYWAY” ARE POPULAR
BECAUSE THEY ARE AD LIB.
I DON'T GO FOR THE NEW SHOW
ON DATING OR THAT TEMPTATION
ISLAND TOO MUCH BECAUSE I
THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO PLAY
ON THE SENSUAL-SEXUAL
ASPECTS.
I DON'T SEE THAT KIND OF
SHOW BEING QUITE AS POPULAR
WITH GENERAL AUDIENCES.
MARILYN.
WELL, I'LL TELL NEW TERMS OF
ADVERTISERS FOR TEMPTATION
ISLAND, THEY'RE LEAVING IN
DROVES BECAUSE THEY THINK
IT'S TOO HOT AND TOO
CHEESEY.

Antonia says THAT'S RIGHT.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE LINE
WILL BE DRAWN.
THERE WAS A LOT OF HYPE A
COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO IN LAS
VEGAS OVER A SHOW CALLED
“WHO WANTS TO DATE A HOOTERS
GIRL.”
WHICH ACTUALLY WAS -- YOU
KNOW, I WROTE THIS SEVERAL
MONTHS AGO WHEN THE IDEA
FIRST SORT OF CROSSED MY
DESK.
AND I THOUGHT OKAY, HAS THIS
GONE TOO FAR?
I THINK IT HAS, BECAUSE YOU
KNOW WHAT?
NO STATION'S BOUGHT IT, FROM
MY KNOWLEDGE.
NO ONE WANTS TO PUT THAT ON
THEIR AIR WAIVES.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE NATURAL
KIND OF SENSORSHIP, THE
MARKET CENSORSHIP WILL COME
IN, AND THEN AS WE'VE SEEN
WITH TEMPTATION ISLAND IN
THE STATES, SEARS HAS PULLED
OUT AND THE CLASSY
ADVERTISERS --

Karen says WE'VE GOT A CLIP OF
TEMPTATION ISLAND.
LET'S HAVE A LOOK AT IT
BEFORE WE GET INTO IT MORE
JUST SO YOU HAVE A FEEL IF
YOU HAVEN'T CALLED -- CAUGHT
IT.
THIS IS TEMPTATION ISLAND.

A clip rolls. Four couples sit on a plane.

The announcer says THESE FOUR COUPLES HAVE
EMBARKED ON AN INCREDIBLE
JOURNEY.
ALTHOUGH THEY'RE IN
COMMITTED RELATIONSHIPS,
THEY'VE TRAVELLED TO THIS
REMOTE CARIBBEAN ISLAND TO
BECOME SINGLE AGAIN.

Pictures of the couples appear on screen. The captions read “Mandy and Billy: 1 and a half years. Shannon and Andy: 5 years. Ytossie and Taheed: 5 and a half years. Valerie and Kaya: 1 and a half years.”

The announcer says TO TEST THEIR DEVOTION TO
ONE ANOTHER AND ANSWER THE
ULTIMATE QUESTION.
“HAVE I FOUND THE ONE OR IS
THERE SOMEONE BETTER OUT
THERE FOR ME?”
UPON THEIR ARRIVAL --

The host says YOU WILL NOT SPEAK TO ONE
ANOTHER FOR THE NEXT TWO
WEEKS.

The announcer says THEY WERE SEPARATE FROM
THEIR MATES AND SENT TO
OPPOSITE ENDS OF THE ISLAND.
THERE, THEY WERE JOINED BY
26 SINGLES.
13 MEN, AND 13 WOMEN.
IN SEARCH OF ROMANCE.
FOR TWO WEEKS THEY WILL MIX,
MINGLE AND DATE IN AN
ATTEMPT TO FIND NEW
CONNECTIONS.

Kaya says IN TERMS OF TEMPTATIONS,
SHE WAS MADE TO ORDER FOR
ME.

The announcer says THE LEAST COMPATIBLE
SINGLES WILL BE VOTED OFF
THE ISLAND.

A male voice says YOU'VE REACHED A
DECISION?

The announcer says ONLY THOSE WHO ARE
COUPLES MOST ATTRACTED TO
WILL REMAIN.
AFTER EACH DATE...
THEY WILL CONFRONT THEIR
EMOTIONS AT BONFIRE.
HERE THEY WILL BE GIVEN A
CHOICE TO SEE VIDEOTAPE OF
THEIR PARTNERS' EXPERIENCES
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
ISLAND.
IN THE END, EACH WILL NARROW
THE FIELD TO ONE WITH WHOM
THEY WILL SHARE AN EXOTIC
FINAL DATE.
OUR COUPLES WILL REUNITE ON
THE LAST NIGHT OF THEIR
JOURNEY TO CONFESS THEIR
EXPERIENCE TO EACH OTHER AND
DECIDE THE FATE OF THEIR
RELATIONSHIPS.
WHO WILL STAY TOGETHER?
WHO WILL BE TORN APART?
FIND OUT AS THESE FOUR
COUPLES EMBARK ON A ONCE IN
A LIFETIME JOURNEY HERE ON
TEMPTATION ISLAND.

Karen says I'M JUST GOING TO
THROW IT RIGHT TO JOHN,
BECAUSE THE LOOK OF DISGUST
ON HIS FACE WHEN WE WERE
WATCHING THAT --

John says IT'S NOT DISGUST.
IT'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF
FASCINATION.
I MEAN, TEMPTATION ISLAND IS
THE MOST FASCINATING EXAMPLE
OF THIS WHOLE GENRE.
THERE'S NOTHING ACTUALLY
SLEAZY ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF
HAVING A PARTNER, OR A
POTENTIAL PARTNER'S FIDELITY
TESTED.
I MEAN THAT'S BEEN PART
OF -- IT'S IN SHAKESPEARE,
IT'S IN OPERA, IT'S IN ALL
KINDS OF THINGS.
THE PROBLEM WITH TEMPTATION
ISLAND, THOUGH, IS THAT IT'S
DONE WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT
INTERESTING.
WHO ARE NOT FUNNY.
THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE THAT
YOU WOULD WANT TO MEET.
THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO, IF
THEY LIVED ON YOUR STREET,
YOU'D CROSS THE ROAD TO
AVOID THEM!
YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO TALK TO
THEM.
IF IT WAS DONE WITH SOME
WITT, WITH A SENSE OF HUMOUR
INSTEAD OF THIS SLEAZY
SENSATIONAL ASPECT TO IT,
THEN IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE
GOOD TELEVISION AND THE
ADVERTISERS WOULDN'T BE
LEAVING IT.

Karen says I'M GOING TO BRING
DEREK WHO'S CALLING IN FROM
LANNARK IN FOR OUR
DISCUSSION.
HI DEREK?

Derek says HI.
WELL, I MEAN, QUESTIONS OF
FIDELITY, DO WE REALLY NEED
THAT ON TELEVISION?
IT'D PROBABLY BE NICER IF WE
HAD SHOWS THAT SHOWED THE
STRENGTH OF COUPLES RATHER
THAN THE WEAKNESSES.
AND THE PEOPLE ON THIS
PROGRAMME ARE ALL COVER
PEOPLE ANYWAY.
I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT THE
AVERAGE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT
GO THROUGH THESE KINDS OF
THINGS.
OR MAYBE THEY ARE.
MAYBE THESE ARE THE PEOPLE
THAT GO THROUGH TESTS OF
CRISIS IN TERMS OF FIDELITY.
SO THAT SHOW FOR ME IS AN
ABSOLUTE WASTE OF TIME.
ON THE OTHER HAND MY WIFE
AND I WATCHED THE MOLE THE
OTHER NIGHT FOR THE FIRST
TIME AND WE'RE NOT BIG FANS
OF THESE KINDS OF
PROGRAMMES.
MY KIDS LIKE SURVIVOR AND
WHAT HAVE YOU, BUT FOUND THE
MOLE VERY INTERESTING.
INTERESTING CHALLENGE,
INTERESTING PERSONALITIES,
AND THE TESTS THEMSELVES
WERE INTERESTING.
SO YOU GET A WHOLE RANGE OF
THIS TYPE OF PROGRAMMING,
JUST AS YOU DO IN THE TALK
PROGRAMMES.
YOU GOT JERRY SPRINGER ON
ONE HAND, YOU'VE GOT OPRAH
OR WHATEVER WANTS TO BE YOUR
PINNACLE OF THAT KIND OF
PROGRAMME ON THE OTHER.

Karen says ALL SORTS OF
DIFFERENT STYLES AND
DIFFERENT THINGS TO CHOOSE
FROM.
AND DEREK, YOU BRING UP A
GOOD POINT ABOUT HOW THERE
ARE DIFFERENT TARGET
AUDIENCE, TOO.
YOU SAID YOUR KIDS WATCH
SURVIVOR BUT YOU WATCH THE
MOLE.
TEMPTATION ISLAND, ITS
TARGET AUDIENCE IS I BELIEVE
18 TO 24 OR MAYBE 30.
SO IT'S NOT MEANT FOR ME.
IT'S NOT MEANT FOR YOU,
DEREK.
IT'S MEANT FOR THE YOUNGER
ONES, SO --

Antonia says WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA.
THE TARGET AUDIENCE IS
EVERYBODY, NUMBER ONE.
BUT THE ONLY AUDIENCE THAT
THE ADVERTISERS REALLY CARE
ABOUT IS THE 18 TO
49-YEAR-OLDS.
ONCE YOU HIT 50, THEY DON'T
CARE.
ALL THEY WANT TO SELL YOU IS
DEPENDS, YOU KNOW?

Karen says BUT THAT'S NOT
FAIR.
THIS, THIS --

Antonia says BUT THAT'S A FACT!

Karen says BUT THIS TV SHOW
THIS ONE WE'RE DOING NOW,
RADIO SHOWS, THEY ALL HAVE
TARGET AUDIENCE, THE IDEAL
ONE THEY WANT TO GET AND
THEY GEAR THEIR PROGRAMMING
AND CONTENT AND THE FEEL AND
THE STYLE TO THAT AUDIENCE.

Antonia says RIGHT, BUT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT PUBLIC BROADCASTER,
WHICH IS VIRTUALLY A
SPECIALTY CHANNEL IN THIS
DAY AND AGE.
WHEN OFF NETWORK, WHICH FOX
IS, IT'S GOING FOR THE
BIGGEST AUDIENCE POSSIBLE.
THAT'S THE FIRST POINT I
WANT TO MAKE.
AND THE SAME THING WITH
ABC'S THE MOLE.
IT'S GOING FOR THE BIGGEST
AUDIENCE POSSIBLE.
THE CALLER MADE A POINT, BY
THE WAY, ABOUT WANTING TO
WATCH COUPLE WHOSE ARE SOLID
AND STUFF.
I HAVE FRIEND WHO'S
PRODUCING RIGHT NOW A SHOW
FOR ANOTHER CHANNEL ABOUT
MARRIAGES AND THE STRESSES
AND STRAINS AND HOW PEOPLE
GET THROUGH THEM.
I CAN BET YOU THAT THAT
AUDIENCE IS GOING TO BE THIS
BIG COMPARED TO TEMPTATION
ISLAND.
BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO SEE
THAT.

Karen says YEAH, BUT THIS IS
WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO.
WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT
SOCIETY?

Antonia says WELL, THE OTHER THING
ABOUT --

Karen says I MEAN WHAT DOES
IT SAY ABOUT HUMAN KIND.

Antonia says THE OTHER THING YOU SAID
ABOUT THESE PEOPLE, YOU'D
CROSS THE STREET TO AVOID
THEM.
LET'S FACE IT, REALLY
INTELLIGENT SENTIENT PEOPLE
ARE NOT GOING TO LET THEIR
LIVES HANG OUT FOR TWO WEEKS
ON TELEVISION LIKE THAT.

John says I THINK YOU CAN FIND
WITTIER, MORE INTERESTING,
FUNNIER PEOPLE THAN THOSE
JERKS ON TEMPTATION ISLAND.

Antonia says I KNOW, BUT WHAT KIND OF
PEOPLE WANT TO BE THAT BADLY
ON TV.

John says THIS RAISES ONE ISSUE
THAT HAS TO BE DEALT WITH.
MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT THAT
HONEST ABOUT WHAT THEY WATCH
ON TELEVISION OR WANT TO
WATCH.
VERY FEW PEOPLE ADMIT THAT
THEY'RE INTERESTED IN
TEMPTATION ISLAND OR EVEN
RIGHT NOW ARE INTERESTED IN
SURVIVOROR 2.
MOST PEOPLE WANT TO SAY THAT
THEY ONLY WATCH THE NEWS AND
DOCUMENTARIES, AND OH,
THERE'S MAYBE ONE CLEVER
SITCOM PER WEEK THEY WANT TO
WATCH.

Antonia says LAW AND ORDER.

John says LAW AND ORDER.
BUT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY WANT
TO ADMIT THAT THEY'LL WATCH
SOMETHING THAT'S A BIT
SLEAZY ON TELEVISION, THAT
THEY FIND IT COMPELLING.
AND I THINK THE RATINGS ARE
THE THINGS THAT TELL THE
ACTUAL WHOLE TRUTH ABOUT
THIS.
THAT IS THERE ARE LOTS OF
PEOPLE WATCHING.
AND IT'S NOT JUST ONE AGE
GROUP, IT IS LOTS OF PEOPLE.

Karen says LET'S BRING LISA
IN.
SHE'S CALLING IN FROM
MISSISSAUGA.
HI LISA?

Lisa says AH, PERSONALLY I
AGREE WITH YOU.
THEY ARE JUNK PROGRAMMES.
I DON'T LIKE THEM, NEVER
DID.
THEY TEND TO SHOW HOW
DEPRAVED SOCIETY IS TO ENJOY
THEM.
YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN YOU SAY
ABOUT SOMEONE WHO ENJOYS
WATCHING OTHERS SUFFER?
OR WHATEVER.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE
LIVING AS SOMEONE MENTIONED
COCKFIGHTS.
WE DON'T LIVE LICK THAT IN
SOCIETY.
THIS IS REALITY?!
I DON'T THINK SO.

Karen says YOU HAVE A
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OPINION
OF MARILYN WHO E-MAILED US,
WHO SAYS SHE FINDS THESE
PROGRAMMES A REPRESENTATIVES
THEY'RE NOT MOVIE STARS,
THEY'RE PEOPLE LIKE US SO
YOU'VE GOT TWO COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF
WHAT REALITY-BASED
TELEVISION MEANS.

Antonia says CAN WE JUST GET RID OF
THIS REALITY THING?
I THINK THAT'S WHAT PUTS
PEOPLE OFF.
THEY THINK REALITY AND THINK
REALITY.
THE REALITY OF MY LIFE
SHOVELLING THE SNOW AND
PAYING BILLS AND GETTING THE
KIDS OFF TO SCHOOL.
THESE ARE UNSCRIPTED
PROGRAMMES.
THERE IS NOT -- YOU KNOW, A
STORY MEETING WHERE PEOPLE
ARE SITTING AROUND AND
SAYING KAREN SAYS THIS AND
JOHN SAYS THIS AND THEN
ANTONIA SAYS THIS AND THEN
WE CUT TO COMMERCIAL.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
UNSCRIPTED PROGRAMMES.
AND I THINK IF YOU START
LOOKING AT IT LIKE THAT,
THEN YOU'RE NOT GOING TO,
YOU KNOW, SORT OF BRINGTA
BAGGAGE OF LOOKING FOR
REALITY.
SECOND OF ALL, ANYBODY WHO
LOOKS FOR REALITY OF ANY
KIND ON TELEVISION IS
LOOKING IN THE WRONG PLACE.
I MEAN, IT'S A BOX THAT'S
PRIMARILY THERE TO ENTERTAIN,
YOU KNOW?
AND DISTRACT.

Karen says BUT I DON'T THINK
THAT YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING
THAT IT IS A DIFFERENT
GENRE.
IT'S BEING SOLD TO US IN A
DIFFERENT WAY THAN E.R.,
SOLD DIFFERENTLY THAN A
SITCOM.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THIS
DIFFERENT TYPE OF VOYEURISM,
WE GET TO WATCH A WOMAN ON
TEMPTATION ISLAND WHO FOUND
OUT THAT HER OTHER HALF WAS
BEING TEMPTED, STARTS CRYING,
SHE STARTS CRYING AND THIS
CAMERA'S ROLLING --

Antonia says NOBODY PUTS HER IT IN HER
HAND AND MARCHED HER OFF TO
BELIZE AND MARCHED HER OFF
AND SAID HERE DO THIS.

John says IT'S ENTIRELY CONTRIVED.
PEOPLE GO IN OF THEIR OWN
VOLITION, EVEN SURVIVOR.
IT'S INCREDIBLY CONTRIVED.
I READ YESTERDAY THAT ONE OF
THE GAMES THEY'RE GOING TO
PLAY ON THIS VERSION OF
SURVIVOR, THEY PRACTICED FOR
THREE DAYS BEFORE THEY
ACTUALLY STARTED TAPING IT.
NOW THAT'S NOT REALITY.
THAT'S NOT REALITY
TELEVISION.

Antonia says THAT'S RIGHT.

Karen says BUT WHEN THE ONE
WOMAN TURNS AND SAYS I CAN'T
DO THIS, I CAN'T DO THIS AND
SHE TURNS AWAY FROM THE
CAMERA AND SHE'S CRYING, IT
JUST MAKES YOU WANT TO GAG!
BUT PEOPLE SEEM TO WANT TO
DO THAT, SIT IN THEIR LIVING
ROOMS AND WATCH.

John says THERE'S WORSE.
THIS WEEKEND WE'RE GOING GET
“POP STARS” ON GLOBAL, WHICH
FOLLOWS THE CREATION OF
AGAIN, AN UTTERLY CONTRIVED
ALL-GIRL CANADIAN POP BAND.
AND WATCHING THE AUDITIONS
FOR THAT IS EXCRUCIATING.
I MEAN, I THINK IT'S WORSE
THAN TEMPTATION ISLAND.
IT'S TRULY GROTESQUE, WHAT
YOU'RE ACTUALLY SEEING ON
THAT.
THAT BECOMES TRULY
EXPLOITATIVE, RATHER THAN
PUTTING PEOPLE ON AN ISLAND,
PLAYING GAMES.

Karen says WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE SHOWS, REALITY
SHOWS, SHOWS CALLED SURVIVOR,
TEMPTATION ISLAND, THE MOLE,
ALSO WHO WANTS TO MARRY A
MULTI MILLION AIR WE HAVEN'T
GOT INTO YET.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT THEM, LOVE
OR HATE THEM, WE WANT TO
KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
GIVE AS A CALL.
HERE IN TORONTO,
THE NUMBER IS 416 484-2727.
LONG DISTANCE, OUR TOLL FREE
NUMBER 1-888-411-1234
AND YOU CAN E-MAIL YOUR
QUESTION TO MORETOLIFE@TVO.ORG
LET'S GO TO VICKI WHO'S
CALLING IN FROM WELLAND.
HI VICKI.

Vicki says HI THERE.
I JUST TO WANT SAY THAT I
DON'T LIKE IT.
REALITY TV, THAT IS MY
HUSBAND WATCHES IT, BUT I
REFUSE TO.
I THINK IT JUST PROMOTES
COMPETITION, AND SOMEBODY
MENTIONED ABOUT HOW IT'S AN
EXTENSION OF THE WORKPLACE,
AND I THINK THAT'S SAD, THAT
IF YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE
THAT AT WORK AND THEN YOU
COME HOME AND WATCH TV, AND
YOU KNOW, YOU SEE MORE OF
THIS, I JUST THINK IT'S SAD.

Karen says THAT WAS YOUR
COMMENT, SO I'LL LET YOU
HANDLE THAT ANTONIA.

Antonia says WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT CAN I
SAY?
THAT'S REALITY.
(LAUGHING)
AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS
REALLY WATCHING SURVIVOR --
BECAUSE THAT'S THE
COMPARISON I MADE BETWEEN
OFFICE POLITICS AND THE
BACKSTABBING AND ALLIANCES
ON SURVIVOR.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S
REALLY WATCHING SURVIVOR AND
TAKING NOTES AND SAYING
“OKAY, I'M GOING TO DEAL
WITH JACK IN THE NEXT OFFICE
LIKE THIS TOMORW BECAUSE I
JUST LEARNED FROM SURVIVOR.”
PEOPLE ARE WATCHING BECAUSE
IT'S DIFFERENT.
YOU KNOW?
I MEAN, AS SOMEBODY WHO
WATCHES HOURSHOURS AND HOURS
OF TELEVISION EVERYDAY,
NEVER MIND EVERY WEEK, I'M
JUST SORT OF LIKE -- AT A
CERTAIN POINT I GET SICK OF
THE RHYTHMS OF TELEVISION.
FOR EXAMPLE, SITCOM, SET UP,
SET UP, PUNCHLINE, MOVE ON.
AND REALITY TV OR
NON-FICTION TV OR UNSCRIPTED
TV HAS SOMETHING -- IT'S
DIFFERENT.
YOU NEVER KNOW WHO TO EXPECT,
AND QUITE FRANKLY, TO ME
THERE'S NOTHING MORE COMIC
THAN THE HUMAN COMEDY.
AND YOU KNOW, IF IT SOUNDS
CRUEL, LIKE I'M EXPLOITING
PEOPLE, WELL LIKE I SAID
BEFORE, NOBODY MARCHED THESE
PEOPLE ONTO THOSE ISLANDS.

Karen says OH, AND THERE'S NO
DOUBT.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT
THAT NEEDS TO BE EMPHASIZED.
NO ONE'S THERE AGAINST
(LAUGHING)
THERE WILL.
THEY WANT TO BE THE STARS.
THESE 16 NEW PEOPLE ON
SURVIVOR 2, BEFORE THEY GOT
THERE THEY KNOW THEY'RE
GOING TO HAVE STARS.

Antonia says THEY HAVE WEBSITES AND
AGENTS.

Karen says AND THEY ACT LIKE
IT.

John says AND I WOULD TAKE IT EVEN
FURTHER.
I THINK THE SUCCESS OF THE
SO-CALLED REALITY SHOWS
APPOINT TO THE POVERTY OF
IMAGINATION, ESPECIALLY IN
AMERICAN NETWORK TELEVISION
THE FACT THAT SOMETHING
IS -- THE NOVELTY OF
SURVIVOR HAS AN INCREDIBLE
IMPACT, POINTS TO THE FACT
THAT THEY'RE NOT MAKING
DRAMAS AND SITCOMES THAT
PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY
INTERESTED IN WATCHING.
AGAIN IT'S THE DERIVATIVE
COPYCAT THING.
THEY'RE RELUCTANT TO DO
ANYTHING ORIGINAL IN TERMS
OF SITCOMS AND DRAMAS, SO
WHEN SOMETHING LIKE SURVIVOR
COMES ALONG, BOOM!
IT HAS A HUGE IMPACT.

Karen says AND IN TERMS OF
TALK TALK JOKE, LAUGH TRACK.
TALK TALK TALK JOKE, LAUGH
TRACK.
WITH THE SHOW LIKE SURVIVOR,
THEY'VE GOT ALL THE MUSIC
SOUNDTRACK UNDERNEATH AS
WELL, THE EDITING'S SO TIGHT
THEY DIS SOMEBODY THEN CUT
TO THEM, IT'S ALL THERE,
TOO.

Antonia says IT WAS SO OBVIOUS, FOR
EXAMPLE, ON SUNDAY NIGHT
WATCHING THE DEBUT EPISODE
OF SURVIVOR 2 THAT DEB WAS
GOING TO GET IT.
BECAUSE YOU CAN TELL,
ESPECIALLY IF YOU WATCH THE
FIRST SERIES, THE PAY THEY
SET IT UP.
IT'S COMPLETELY PACKAGED AND
THAT'S WHY BY THE WAY I'M
NOT SURE I'M GOING TO BE AS
KEEN AS ON SURVIVOR I.
ALTHOUGH IF IT'S A HIT I'M
GOING TO HAVE TO WATCH IT,
BECAUSE I JUST KNOW WHERE
IT'S GOING AND YOU KNOW, YOU
KNOW THAT ONE OF THOSE
PEOPLE WE SAW SO MUCH OF IN
THE FIRST EPISODE, MICHAEL,
PUKING JEFF, ANNOYING KIM ME,
SEXY -- WHAT WAS HER NAME,
THE ACTRESS?

John saysSHERRY.

Antonia says WHY DO WE KNOW THEIR
NAMES?
YOU KNOW, OR RELIGIOUS ROGER,
ONE OF THOSE IS GOING TO BE
THE WINNER.
WHICH ONE, WE DON'T KNOW.
THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE
FIGURED AND THEY'VE GOT TO
MAKE US CARE ABOUT THAT
PERSON IN ONE WAY OR
ANOTHER.

John says DON'T YOU THINK EVERYBODY
WAS -- A LOT OF PEOPLE
ANYWAY WERE SURPRISE WHEN
RICHARD WON ON THE FIRST
SURVIVOR.

Antonia says I WASN'T.

Karen says YOU WEREN'T?
DID YOU WIN SOME MONEY?

Antonia says YOU KNOW HOW BAD I HAVE
IT, JOHN?
WATCHING WHO WANTS TO MARRIE A
MILLIONAIRE, AS SOON AS
DARVA CONGER CAME OUT I SAID
THAT'S HER.
I PICKED EDDIE RIGHT OFF THE
BAT IN BIG BROTHER AND
RICHARD RIGHT OFF THE BAT --

Karen says SHE'S GOOD.

John says SHE'S VERY WISE.

Antonia says I WATCH TOO MUCH TV, MY
BRAIN IS GONE.

Karen says REALITY, BIG
QUESTION MARKS.
WHAT A JOKE.
DO YOU THINK THE FILM CREW
ON SURVIVOR HAD TO EAT BUGS
AND RATS?
DO YOU THINK THEY HAD PORTO
POTTIES OR DO YOU THINK THEY
WENT BEHIND A TREE?
LEN FROM THUNDER BAY.

Antonia says I CAN TELL YOU FOR SURE
THEY'RE NOT IN THE OUTBACK,
THEY'RE ON A CATTLESTATION
IN OUTER QUEENSLAND.
THE OUTBACK IS A DESERT.
AND THEY'RE LIVING MAYBE NOT
IN LUXURIOUS ACCOMMODATIONS
BUT IT'S CERTAINLY AS GOOD
AT ANY CLUB MED --

Karen says THE CREW IS?

Antonia says OF COURSE THEY ARE!

John says THEY'RE AS GOOD AS ANY
BIG BUDGET MOVIE.

Karen says YEAH.
LAURIE IN ELGIN IS NEXT.
HI, YOU'RE ON “MORE TO
LIFE.”
HI, GO AHEAD.

Laurie says WANT TO COMMENTS
ON THE NEW SHOW ON THE
HISTORY CHANNEL, I CAN'T
REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT, BUT
IT'S ABOUT TWO COUPLES THAT
GO OUT AND THEY PRETEND
THEY'RE PIONEERS FOR A YEAR.

Antonia says IT'S A GREAT SHOW.

Laurie says ENJOYING THAT ONE BUT IT
HASN'T BEEN ON FOR A WHILE.

Antonia says IT'S COMING BACK ON
SUNDAY.

Laurie says OH, OKAY.

Karen says SO IS THAT AN
EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU THINK IS
WELL DONE, JOHN?

John says YES.
THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE
OF THE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS
YOU GET IN REALITY
TELEVISION.
I MEAN, IT'S -- I THINK IT'S
EXCELLENT IN THAT IT IS ABLE
TO SHOW A LOT OF CANADIANS,
ESPECIALLY A LOT OF YOUNGER
CANADIANS WHAT IT WAS LIKE
TO SOME EXTENT IF YOU WENT
TO MANITOBA A HUNDRED YEARS
AGO AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE ALL
THE MODERN CONVENIENCES YOU
DO NOW AND TRIED TO MAKE A
GO OF IT.
MOST OF US HAVE FORGOTTEN
WHAT THAT WAS LIKE.

Karen says SO IT'S BETTER THAN
READING SUZANNEA --

John says OH, GREAT HISTORY, YES.

Karen says WE'VE TOUCHED ON THE MOLE
BECAUSE THAT CAME UP JUST
BRIEFLY, I'D LIKE TO GO BACK
TO THAT.
JOHN, MAYBE YOU COULD
EXPLAIN HOW IT WORK, THE
SHOW.

John says NOT EXACTLY BECAUSE I'M
NOT A BIG FAN OF IT.
I HATE IT.
I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE
WORST OF THE GENRE.
IT'S A BUNCH OF THE PEOPLE,
HAVE TO DO GAMES, BOTH IN
NORTH ANDEARK IN EUROPE, AND
AMONG THEM IS ONE PERSON WHO
IS A SABOTEUR.
HE OR SHE IS THERE TO
DESTABILIZE EVERYTHING, AND
THAT THE OTHERS ARE SUPPOSED
TO TRY TO GUESS WHO THAT
PERSON IS AND THEY DO THESE
QUIZZES AT THE END OF SHOWS
AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHO IT
IS AND THE PERSON WHO IS THE
LEAST AWARE OF WHO THE MOLE
IS VOTED OFF.
SOMETHING LIKE THAT ISN'T
THAT RIGHT?

Antonia says THEY DO A LOT OF LAUNDRY
IN SPAIN.
I MEAN, I WATCHED EVERY
EPISODE SO FAR, AND I
CAN'T -- I JUST, I DON'T GET
IT.
I MEAN, I DON'T UNDERSTAND
HOW PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO
KNOW WHO THE MOLE IS.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE NO REAL
CLUES.
IT'S JUST, IT'S TOTALLY
CONTRIVED.

John says MAYBE YOU MIGHT BE
WATCHING TOO MUCH TELEVISION
OVER THE YEARS BECAUSE IF
IT'S NOT INFINITELY
UNDERSTANDABLE WE FIGURE --

Antonia says NO, NO, IT'S NOT THAT I
DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, I JUST
DON'T GET IT.

Karen says I'VE GOT A CLIP.

Antonia says THE HOST IS SO CREEPY.

Karen says LET'S HAVE A LOOK.
YEAH, AND HIS DELIVERY'S BAD,
TOO.
HERE WE GO.

Antonia says OH, HE'S CREEPY.

A clip rolls. A group of participants stand outside a hangar. The gates open and several men in black overall come out.

The host says THESE MEN ARE HERE TO
HELP YOU WITH YOUR FIRST
TEST.
THE FIRST TEST IS GOING TO
BE A FREEFALL FROM 10,000
FEET.
(CHEERS)
EVERYONE IN THE GROUP
JUMPS, YOU AS A GROUP EARN
75,000 DOLLARS.
SO SUIT-UP.

A man says ALL RIGHT!

A female participant says
ORIGINALLY WE THOUGHT “OH,
WOW!
I DON'T HAVE TIME TO THINK
ABOUT THIS I DON'T WANT TO
DISAPPOINT THE GROUP,” AND
“I'D BETTER DO IT.”

Karen says WELL THE HOST OF
THE MOLE IS APPARENTLY AN
EMMY-AWARD WINNING
JOURNALIST.
AND WITH BOB PROST WHO'S
WITH SURVIVOR --

Antonia says JEFF.

Karen says OR JEFF, HE'S I
GUESS HOST OF ROCK 'N ROLL
JEOPARDY AND PEOPLE SEEM TO
THINK THE HOSTS ARE A BIG
PART OF IT BUT THEY'RE BIT
PLAYERS, DON'T YOU THINK?

Antonia says I THINK THAT IRRITATING
JEFF PROBST, I CAN FEEL YOUR
PAIN SMILE IS PART OF --

John says YEAH, HE WORKS WELL
BECAUSE HE IS SO OVER THE
TOP AND HE'S SILLY.
THE GUY WHO'S THE HOST ON
THE MOLE IS AN IDIOT.
HE'S VERY ANNOYING, TANDZ
THERE WITH HIS ARMS CROSSED
IN A LEATHER JACKET AND
MAKES BIG PRONOUNCEMENTS AND
HE'S NOT A TV NATURAL.
HE SHOULD JUST LEAVE IT
ALONE OR ELSE GO TOTALLY
OVER THE TOP.

Karen says HOW ARE THE
RATINGS ON THIS ONE?

Antonia says THEY'RE SINKING FAST.

Karen says ARE THEY IN.

Antonia says YEAH, THEY CAME OUT
REALLY WELL, BUT IT'S BEEN
STEADILY DROPPING.
HOWEVER THE AUDIENCE --
ADVERTISERS CARE ABOUT THIS.
THE AUDIENCE IS YOUNGER,
YOUNGER THAN THE AUDIENCE
WAS FOR REGIS AND WHO WANTS
TO BE A MILLIONAIRE, IN THAT
TIME SLOT SO, THAT
APPARENTLY IS A GOOD THING.

Karen says RIGHT.
THEY CAN SELL OR PITCH IT --

Antonia says IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE
BIGGEST NUMBER ANYMORE, IT'S
ALSO ABOUT GETTING THE RIGHT
AGE GROUP.

Karen says OH, YEAH SO, YOU
CAN PROMOTE YOUR PRODUCT TO
THAT --

Antonia says YOUR PIMPLE CREAM OR
WHATEVER.

John says BUT NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT
THE MOLE.
THAT'S THE THING.
YOU GO TO A PARTY OR TALK TO
PEOPLE NOBODY WANTS TO TALK
ABOUT THE MOLE.

Antonia says IT'S TANKING.

Karen says JULIE'S NEXT
CALLING FROM TORONTO ON
“MORE TO LIFE.”
HI JOE.

Joe says HI THERE.

Karen says HI.

Joe says I JUST WANTED TO
SAY RIGHT OFF THE BAT, I'M A
BIG FAN OF JOHN DOYLE.

John says THANK YOU.

Joe says KEEP STICKING IT
TO THE MAN.
AND PLEASE BRING BACK THE
CRAP LIST BECAUSE I THOUGHT
THAT WAS FANTASTIC.

John says I WISH I COULD, BUT
THAT'S NOT UP TO ME, THAT'S
UP TO THE BOSSES AT THE
“GLOBE AND MAIL.”
SO WRITE TO THEM.

Joe says OH, OKAY.

Karen says AND WHAT'S YOUR
COMMENT ON OUR TOP WICK
WITH -- TOPIC WITH REALITY
TV?

Joe says I'M NOT A BIG FAN
OF REALITY TV, I THINK MOST
STUFF ON TV STINKS BUT I
KIND OF AM ENJOYING THESE LOFTERS

Karen says THE CANADIAN
VERSION.

Joe says YEAH, BECAUSE OF
THE DAY TO DAY SORT OF
ASPECT TO IT EVEN THOUGH
IT'S REALLY SORT OF, YOU
KNOW, ALL THESE PEOPLE THEY
SELECT ARE KIND OF NOT THAT
BRIGHT.

Karen says (LAUGHING)
WHICH SEEMS TO BE A RUNNING
THEME HERE, AS WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THESE SHOWS.
BUT THAT SAID, THE LOFTERS
BRINGS IN SOMETHING
DIFFERENT AND IT'S THE
INTERNET AND TELEVISION.
SO JOHN, I'LL LET YOU HANDLE
THAT.

John says WELL, THE LOFTERS AT
FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING
TO BE A TOTAL BUST, AND WHEN
I LOOKED AT THAT BUNCH OF
PEOPLE I DIDN'T FIND IT VERY
INTERESTING AND COULDN'T
IMAGINE A LOT OF PEOPLE
INTERESTING INTERESTED IN
THAT KIND OF VOYEURISM WHERE
YOU LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE
DOING 24 HOURS A DAY, EITHER
ON TELEVISION OR ON THE
INTERNET.
WHAT I'VE SINCE HEARD, THAT
IT DOES ALREADY HAVE A
SUBSTANTIAL FOLLOWING AMONG
A CERTAIN AGE GROUP, AMONG
STUDENTS.
LIKE 18 TO 21-YEAR-OLDS ARE
FOLLOWING IT INTENSELY.
BOTH ON THE NET AND ON
TELEVISION.
AND I THINK THAT'S A REAL
EXAMPLE OF NICHE TELEVISION.
I THINK THEY COULD HAVE GOT,
IF THEY WANTED A BROADER
AUDIENCE, THEY COULD HAVE
GOT A MORE INTERESTING BUNCH
OF OF YOUNG PEOPLE ON IT.
BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S
CLICKING WITH THE SAME SORT
OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE
SHOW.
THE SAME AGE GROUP, THE SAME
BACKGROUND ARE ACTUALLY
WATCHING IT.

Karen says WELL, AND THIS IS
AN EXAMPLE WHERE SOME HAVE
SAID IT DOESN'T MAKE GREAT
TV VIEWING, IT'S KIND OF
INTERESTING ON THE NET, AND
YOU'RE ABLE TO CHECK IN
EVERY NOW AND THEN WHAT
THEY'RE DOING, BUT AS MAKING
IT SPARKLING TELEVISION,
IT'S NOT AS SLICK, NEARLY AS
THE OTHERS.

Antonia says WELL IT DOESN'T HAVE TO
BE.
FIRST OF ALL IT'S ON A
SPECIALTY CHANNEL.
SO YOU KNOW, BY DEFINITION
THAT AUDIENCE IS GOING TO BE
SMALLER.
AND SECOND OF ALL, IT'S
ATTEMPTING -- I HAVE TO
COMPLIMENT THE PRODUCERS
BECAUSE IT'S ATTEMPTING
SOMETHING I THINK THAT'S
NEVER REALLY BEEN DONE
BEFORE, WHICH IS NOT ONLY IS
IT MARRYING, AS BIG BROTHER
DID, YOU KNOW, WATCHING THEM
ON TELEVISION IN THE HALF
HOUR CONDENSED EDITED
VERSION BUT ALSO WATCHING
THEM 24-7 ON THE INTERNET.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME THESE
KIDS ARE MOUNTING TELEVISION
SHOWS ON THE INTERNET, WHICH
ARE REALLY RATHER ORIGINAL.
AND SO I'M NOT SURPRISED
IT'S A SUCCESS.
AND I DON'T THINK THE KIDS
ARE AS DUMB AS OTHERS SEEM
TO -- I THINK THAT LITTLE
DAVID IS ONE SMART COOKIE,
ANNOYING ONE THOUGH.

Karen says WE'VE GOT THE
WEBSITE, WE'RE GOING TO GIVE
IT OUT AT THE END THE SHOW.
E-MAIL HERE, WHEN I TOLD MY
BEST FRIEND I WAS ADDICTED
TO BIG BROTHER SHE SAID SHE
HAD JUST GOTTEN DONE TELLING
SOMEONE THAT PEOPLE WHO
WATCH THESE SHOWS GET A LIFE
AND SHE WOULDN'T HAVE
BELIEVED THAT SHE WAS
TALKING ABOUT ME.
WELL THAT JUST ANNOYED ME.
I HAVE LIFE, BUT I ALSO HAVE
THREE CHILDREN AND I'M HOME
MOST EVENINGS, IF SOMEONE IS
SPENDING AN HOUR WATCHING TV
WHAT DIFFERENCE COULD IT
POSSIBLY MAKE WHAT THEY'RE
WATCHING?
WOULD FRIENDS AND FRAZER
MAKE ME A BETTER PERSON WITH
A BETTER LIFE?
THAT'S FROM SHERRY AND I
THINK SHERRY YOU'VE HIT ON
SOMETHING THAT I MENTIONED
EARLIER IN THE SHOW, THOSE
WHO SAY THEY DON'T LIKE IT
OR WATCH IT ARE LABELLED
ELITIST AND THEY'RE SNOBS
AND WOULDN'T LOWER
THEMSELVES TO IT AND JOHN
YOU SAID SOME PEOPLE JUST
WON'T ADMIT THAT THEY'RE
WATCHING IT.
DO YOU THINK THERE'S A LABEL
THAT GETS SLAPPED ON
PEOPLE -- DO YOU HAVE A
LABEL?

John says OH, CERTAINLY.
I THINK BOTH ANTONIA KNOW
THIS NOT JUST ABOUT REALITY
TELEVISION BUT ABOUT
TELEVISION IN GENERAL.

Antonia says YEAH.

John says IT'S ESPECIALLY TRUE IN
FACT OF PEOPLE WHO WORK IN
THE MEDIA, WHO CLAIM --
ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO WORK
IN THE PRINT MEDIA --

Antonia says OH, NO, IN TELEVISION!

John says AND IN TELEVISION, TOO.
THEY CLAIM THEY DON'T WATCH
A LOT OF TELEVISION THAT
MOST TELEVISION IS CRAP AND
THEY ONLY WATCH THE NEWS OR
AN OCCASIONAL DULT TREE OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THEY'RE RELUCTANT TO ADMIT.
BUT IT SIMPLY COULDN'T BE
TRUE.
THERE IS STILL THIS BIAS
AGAINST TELEVISION AS A
MEDIUM FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND
EDUCATION.

Karen says BUT DO WE GET LABELS FROM
THE TV WE WATCH, JUST LIKE
WE DO WHEN WE SAY WE'RE
CONSERVATIVES, LIBERALS OR
NDPs?
IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A SIGN
OR INDICATIVE OF THE PEOPLE
WE ARE BY THE TV WE WATCH.

Antonia says YOU KNOW WHAT, WE ALL SAY
WE WANT TO EAT HEALTHY AND
WE GO AROUND AND YOU KNOW,
EATING FISH AND LOW FAT AND
ALL THAT JUNK.
BUT THERE ISN'T A PERSON ON
THE PLANET WHO ISN'T GOING
TO DIVE INTO A BAG OF
DORITOS OR A SLICE OF
PEPPERONI PIZZA AT ONE TIME
OR ANOTHER.

John says TELEVISION IS VERY
FREEING THAT WAY AND THAT
IT'S MOSTLY PRIVATE IN THE
PRIVACY OF YOUR OWN HOME NO
ONE'S GOING KNOW IF YOU'RE
WATCHING, YOU CAN DENY IT
TOMORROW BUT YOU WERE
WATCHING.

Karen says OKAY, I'VE GOT A
CONFESSION.
I THINK I CAN DO THIS.

John says WHAT DO YOU WATCH?

Karen says I'M A TREKER.

Antonia says YOU'RE A TRUCKER?

Karen says A TREKER.
“STAR TREK”!

Antonia says OH, TREKER!

Karen says I WATCH “STAR
TREK”!

Antonia says OH, YOU'RE IN A WORLD OF
YOUR OWN.

Karen says DO YOU KNOW HOW
MANY YEARS IT'S TAKEN ME TO
BE CONFIDENT TO SAY THAT?

John says WELL, THERE ARE LOTS OF
YOU OUT WILL AND I'M SURE
ALL OF YOU CLAIM YOU WATCH
IT FOR INTELLECTUAL COULDN'T
TEN.

Karen says THE FUTURE, GENE ROD
DENBURY'S DREAM.

Antonia says AND TOLGSLY FIXATED ON
THE NEXT GENERATION, RIGHT?

Karen says RIGHT, YES.
BUT I DON'T GO TO
CONFERENCES AND I DON'T WEAR
RUBBER EARS AND I ALWAYS
HAVE TO SAY THAT SO PEOPLE
DON'T THINK I'M A COMPLETE
LUNATIC.
BUT I'M NOT KIDDING ABOUT IT,
FOR YEARS NOT TELLING PEOPLE
THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK
ALL TREKERS ARE LUNATICS.
SO IT REALLY IS THAT -- OR
WE LIVE IN OUR PARENTS'
BASEMENTS IS USUALLY WHAT
THEY SAID ABOUT IT.
SO THERE IS SOMETHING TO
THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT
GETTING THE LABELS FROM THE
TYPE OF TV THAT WE WATCH.
I REALLY BELIEVE THAT.
AND I THINK SHERRY HIT ON
THAT.
LET'S GO TO LISA -- I'M JUST
GOING TO BRING LISA IN.
SHE'S CALLING FROM TORONTO.
HI LISA.

Lisa says HOW ARE YOU?

Karen says FINE, THANKS.

Lisa says GOOD.
YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO
COMMENT.
ACTUALLY IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW
PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA DON'T
REALLY LIKE REALITY TV, BUT
I LOVE IT.
YEAH, I CAME FROM A PRINT
MEDIA BACKGROUND BUT I
ACTUALLY PREFER REALITY TV,
RATHER THAN FICTION.
AND I'VE BEEN SO ADDICTED TO
THE SURVIVOR FROM LAST YEAR,
AND I'M LOVING IT THIS YEAR
AS WELL.
AND JUST WANTED TO COMMENT,
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE
TALKED ABOUT CROCODILE
HUNTER YET, BUT TO ME THAT
SEEMS REALITY, BUT I HAVEN'T
SEEN THE ACTUAL BITES THAT
HE'S BEEN GETTING YET OR
ANYTHING FROM THE CROCODILES
OR THE SNAKES --

Karen says SOMEONE ON THE
SHOW GETS A BITE?

Lisa says UM, NO, HAVE YOU
SEEN THE CROCODILE HUNTER?.

Karen says NO, ANTONIA HAS.

Antonia says YEAH SO, WHAT ABOUT IT?

Lisa says OH, OKAY SO, I
THOUGHT THAT WAS PART OF
REALITY TV AS WELL.

Antonia says YEAH, IT IS.
SEE, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING,
IS THAT THERE'S SO MANY
CHANNELS, AND YOU KNOW,
REALITY TV IS JUST ONE GIANT
MISNOMER FOR NON-FICTION TV.
ALL OF HGTV, ALL OF LIFE
CHANNEL, ALL OF THAT IS
REALITY TV.
ALL OF DISCOVERY CHANNEL IS
REALITY TV.
YOU KNOW, STUDIO 2, THIS IS
REALITY TV SO IT'S A GREAT
BIG MISNOMER.
IT'S JUST NON-FICTION TV.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT?
IT'S ALL OVER THE DIAL, AND
IT'S NOT GOING AWAY.
I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S
SUPPOSEDLY UPLIFTING, YOU
KNOW, LIKE THE NEW
CONSTRUCTION SHOW, OR, YOU
KNOW, I MEAN, YOU NAME IT.
YOU COULD HAVE EDUCATIONAL
REALITY TV AND YOU CAN HAVE
TOTALLY DIVERTING REALITY
TV, AND MY ADVICE OF CHOICE
IS BLIND DATE.
I NEVER MISS AN EPISODE.

John says WELL, IT'S ALL OVER THE
CULTURE, TOO.
IT'S NOT JUST TELEVISION.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE
BESTSELLER LIST FOR BOOK,
WHAT'S THE BOOK THAT HAS HAD
REAL IMPACT OVER THE LAST
FEW YEARS AND SOLD TENS OF
MILLIONS OF COPIES?
ANGELA'S ASHES.
IT'S NOT A NOVEL.
IT'S A TRUE STORY.
I MEAN, IT'S AN EMBELLISHED
AND SLIGHTLY CON TRIRVEED
TRUE STORY, BECAUSE IT'S
SOMEONE'S MEMORY DISTILLED.
WELL IT'S ALSO A STORY,
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, ABOUT
SURVIVING.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE
BIOGRAPHIES THAT SELL,
RATHER THAN NOVELS, THEN
IT'S PART OF THE LARGER
CULTURE.
IT'S NOT JUST TELEVISION.

Antonia says TRUE CRIME NOVELS.

Karen says NOW WILL SURVIVOR,
THIS IS A QUESTION BEING
ASKED, BUMP NBC'S THURSDAY
NIGHT LINE-UP?
AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE
THE TRUE TEST FOR REALITY
TV.

Antonia says NO.

Karen says YOU DON'T THINK
SO?

Antonia says NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

John says I THINK IT WILL.
IT WILL EDGE IT SLIGHTLY IN
ABOUT THREE OR FOUR WEEKS.

Antonia says AH, THAT'S WHEN FRIENDS
GOES INTO RE-RUNS IN MARCH.
SO DURING FEBRUARY MY BET IS
ON FRIENDS.
IN MARCH, OKAY.
YOU'RE RIGHT.

Karen says BECAUSE NBC WITH
ITS THURSDAY NIGHT LINE-UP
HAS BEEN KING FOR SO LONG,
IT'S TAKEN SOMETHING HUGE TO
COME AND KNOCK IT OFF.
AND SOME THINK SURVIVOR
COULD DO IT.

John says THE LINE-UP IS WEAK NOW,
I THINK.
THIS IS THE TIME WHEN IT
WILL GET EDGED OUT BY
SOMETHING ELSE, AND THAT'S
SURVIVOR.

Karen says YEAH?
AND THEY'VE ALSO TALKED
ABOUT MOVING FRIENDS AROUND.
GLOBAL'S DIFFERENT THAN THE
AMERICAN NETWORK --

John says OH, IT'S HILARIOUS,
REALLY.
IT LET'S YOU KNOW WHO'S
REALLY IN CHARGE OF
TELEVISION AND IT'S NOT
ANYBODY HERE IN TORONTO.
IT'S SOMEBODY IN NEW YORK OR
L.A.
(LAUGHING)

Karen says TRUE.
LINDA'S NEXT CALLING FROM
ORANGEVILLE.
HI LINDA.

Linda says YES, HI.
I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A
COMMENT ABOUT -- I LIKE
SURVIVOR, I LIKE ALL THOSE
SHOWS, BUT THE STUFF I
REALLY DON'T LIKE ON TV ARE
LIKE THE DARK SHOW, LIKE
“PSI FACTOR” AND X-FILES AND
ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF.
I'D FAR RATHER WATCH THESE
REALITY SHOWS TO THE REST OF
THE GARBAGE ON TV.

Karen says THE
PARAINTERNATIONAL MALL.

Linda says YEAH, IT'S ALL EVIL
THOUGHT TV THAT WE REALLY
COULD DO WITHOUT.
AND WATCHING A BUNCH OF
PEOPLE HORSING AROUND ON AN
ISLAND IS HARMLESS COMPARED
TO ALL THE EVIL THINGS THAT
ARE ON TV.

Karen says WELL X-FILES
KICKED THAT OFF --

Antonia says NO, NO, X-FILES DIDN'T
KICK IT OFF.
I REMEMBER THE TWIL LIGHT
ZONE WHEN I WAS A KID FOR
PARA NORMAL.
BUT WHAT I FIND DISTURBING
AND COMPLETELY AGREE WITH
YOU, SIGH FACT TO OUTER
LIMITS, THE X-FILES EXCEPT
WHEN THEY DO THE ALIEN THING
IS THAT THERE'S ALWAYS SOME
MONSTER RIPPING PEOPLE'S
HEADS OFF ON SHOWS.
THEY'RE THE MOST GRUESOME
SHOWS.

John says THERE'S ANOTHER ASPECT TO
IT, TOO, WHICH SHOWS US THAT
IT'S NOT JUST REALITY
TELEVISION THAT'S ON THE
DARK SIDE OF TELEVISION, IF
YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT THAT
WAY.
THERE'S A FASCINATION RIGHT
NOW WITH DEATH ON
TELEVISION.
AND I'VE NEVER SEEN SO MANY
AUTOPSIES ON ALL OF THESE
SHOWS.
I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S ALIENS
OR WHETHER IT'S AUTOPSIES ON
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN MUMMIES,
THERE'S THIS ABSOLUTE
FASCINATION WITH DEAD BODIES
ON TELEVISION.

Karen says DAVINCI'S INQUEST, COLD
SQUAD, C.S.I., YOU'RE RIGHT.

John says IT'S RATHER GRUESOME IN
WAY BUT YOU NEED A
PSYCHOLOGIST TO GIVE YOU AN
ARTICULATE EXPLANATION OF
WHY BUT THERE'S A LOT OF
THAT STUFF, TOO.
THAT WAS GOING ON BEFORE
REALITY TELEVISION CAME
ALONG.

Karen says BUT THERE'S ALSO THIS
EMPHASIS IN SHOWS LIKE
SURVIVOR ON REJECTION.
AND WITH THIS ORIGINAL SHOW
I GUESS THAT WAS IN SWEDEN,
THAT IT WAS AN ISLAND, AND
THAT WHEN THEY KICKED
SOMEONE OFF, THE MAN WENT
AND COMMITTED SUICIDE FOR
FEAR OF THE HUMILIATION.
I MEAN, THAT REALLY
HAPPENED.
AND THE PUBLIC WERE SO
HORRIFIED THAT THERE WAS
THIS REJECTION ELEMENT TO
THE SHOW, THAT THE TV PEOPLE
PRESSURED THE CREATOR TO
BACK OFF THIS IDEA OF VOTING
THEM OFF THE ISLAND AND SHE
REFUSED TO AND NOW OF COURSE
THAT'S THE MOST POPULAR
ASPECT OF THE SHOW.
IS THAT YOU GET TO SEND
SOMEONE PACKING.

Antonia says AND THAT TV CREATOR BY
THE WAY GOT A BUM RAP AND BY
THE WAY SHE LIVES IN TORONTO
NOW.
SHE LEFT HER HOME COUNTRY
BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED AND
I THINK SHE WAS -- HAVING
SPOKEN TO HER MANY TIMES --
I THINK SHE WAS PERSECUTED
BY THE PRINT MEDIA THAT JUST
LOVES TO HATE TELEVISION.
I MEAN, YES, GUYS LIKE US
WRITE ABOUT TELEVISION, AND
WE HELP HYPE UP SURVIVOR,
BUT AS SOON AS WE CAN FIND A
WEAKNESS IN TELEVISION,
WHETHER IT WAS, FOR EXAMPLE,
LAST WEEK A STATISTICS
CANADA ANNOUNCED THAT TV
VIEWING HAD GONE DOWN, WHICH
WAS TOTAL NONSENSE.
AND YET FRONT PAGE OF THE
“GLOBE AND MAIL,” FRONT PAGE
OF THE “NATIONAL POST,” FIVE
MINUTES ON THE NATIONAL, “TV
VIEWINGS A GONE DOWN!
AND THAT WAS NONSENSE.

John says IT IS NONSENSE.

Karen says IS IT?

Antonia says OF COURSE IT'S NONSENSE!

Karen says THEY SAY KID TV
VIEWING IS UP.

Antonia says I GET AN E-MAIL EVERYDAY,
I'M SURE JOHN DOES, TOO.
LAST WEEK I WROTE A COLUMN
ABOUT GILMOUR GIRLS AND I
GOT E-MAILED FROM ATLANTA,
WASHINGTON, CALIFORNIA, FROM
OVERSEAS.
BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT ONLY
WATCHING TELEVISION STILL,
THEY'RE ONLINE, TALKING WITH
FELLOW FANS --

Karen says IN THE CHAT ROOMS.

Antonia says YEAH, AT THE SAME TIME.

Karen says YEAH, I'VE GOT --

John says TO GO BACK TO YOUR POINT,
THOUGH, ABOUT THE FIRST
VERSION OF SURVIVE ROR IN
SWEDEN, THERE IS AN
INTERESTING HE WILL MEANT TO
THE WHOLE REALITY TV THING
THIS THAT MOST OF THE
CONCEPTS FOR THESE SHOWS
CAME FROM EUROPE WHERE THEY
ACTUALLY IN MANY CASES DID
THINGS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY.
BIG BROTHER WAS A MUCH
BIGGER KNIT EUROPE THAN IT
WAS OVER HERE, AND THAT'S
BECAUSE THE VIEWERS OVER
THERE, WHEN THEY GOT
INVOLVED, THEY KEPT THE
NASTY PEOPLE ON THE SHOW.
IN THE STATES, THEY WANTED
THE NASTY PEOPLE OUT.
THEY WANTED THE NICE PEOPLE
ON.
THE VIEWERS IN EUROPE, WHO
SOME PEOPLE MIGHT THINK
WOULD BE A BIT MORE
SOPHISTICATED ABOUT THIS,
DID SEE IT AS A SPECTATOR
SPORT.
AS A BATTLE, THAT THEY
WANTED TO GET INVOLVED IN.
WHEN IT CAME TO THE STATES
IT BECAME AN ENTIRELY
DIFFERENT THING.

Antonia says IT'S A POPULARITY CONTEST
IN THE STATES.

Karen says SO THEN BECAUSE
THE NASTY PERSON STAYED, IT
WORKED.
BECAUSE THE NICE PEOPLE
STAYED IN THE STATES IT
DIDN'T.

Antonia says IT DIDN'T.
YEAH.

Karen says OKAY.
ALL RIGHT, GOT AN E MAIL
HERE FROM TINA IN
SCARBOROUGH.
THIS IS NOT PASSIVE TV
WATCHING.
MOLE IS LIKE A MYSTERY,
SURVIVOR MAKES YOU ANALYZE
HUMAN INTERACTION.
THERE IS VALUE IN IT.
AND I'VE HEARD VALUE --
HEARD THAT, EVEN ABOUT
TEMPTATION ISLAND THERE.
IS VALUE IN SEEING PEOPLE
TESTED AND IT MAKES YOU
THINK ABOUT YOUR
RELATIONSHIP, TOO.
I GUESS -- I DON'T KNOW HOW
MANY PEOPLE CAN SEE
THEMSELVES AND THESE
CHARACTERS ON TEMPTATION
ISLAND, BUT --

Antonia says I SURE CAN'T.
THEY LOOK TOO GOOD TO BE
ANYTHING LIKE ME.

Karen says AND YOU KNOW,
ANOTHER COMMENT I HEARD FROM
JEFF PROBST, THE HOST OF
SURVIVOR, HE SAID WELL, IT'S
BEEN SUGGESTED ON DOING IN A
DIFFERENT CLIMATE.
DOING IT IN THE ARCTIC, FOR
EXAMPLE.

Antonia says OH, YEAH, SURE.

Karen says AND HE SAID “WELL,
THE REASON WE'RE NOT DOING
IT THERE ISN'T BECAUSE YOU
WON'T SEE BODIES AND BIKINIS
AND NAKEDNESS.
IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE BIG
SNOWSUITS.
IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE WHEN
THEY GET COLD, THEY GET LESS
ACTIVE, SO IT WOULD BE
BORING TELEVISION.”
COME ON!
IT'S ABOUT WEARING THE
BIKINIS AND THE SKIN AND
SEEING THESE GORGEOUS
CLIMATES.
WATCHING AUSTRALIA ONCE A
WEEK ISN'T THAT BAD.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY.

John says LISTEN, ISN'T THAT WHERE
EVERYBODY WANTS TO GO TO
ANYWAY?
IN THE MIDDLE OF A CANADIAN
WINTER?
YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT
BEING ON A BEACH OR THE
OUTBACK SOMEWHERE IN YOUR
SHORTS OR BIKINI OR
WHATEVER.

Karen says SO WHAT'S THE FUTURE?
LET'S ASK THAT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Antonia says WELL I THINK THAT -- YOU
KNOW, AS I SAID, THE
C.R.T.C. JUST LICENSED A
WHOLE BUNCH MORE CHANNELS.
WE'RE GOING TO SEE 50 NEW
CHANNELS COMING ON THE
DIGITAL DIAL IN THE NEXT
COUPLE OF YEARS.
YOU GOT TO FILL THEM WITH
EVERYTHING.
YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE ROSEANNE
AND I LOVE LUCY RERUNS ALL
THE TIME SO WE ARE GOING TO
SEE MORE AND MORE REALITY
TV.
THERE MAY NOT BE A MILLION
PRIZE, VOTING OFF THE ISLAND
OR WHATEVER AT THE END OF IT
BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE
OF THIS.

Karen says BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A
PRIZE IN LOFTERS, RIGHT?

Antonia says NO, THE PRIZE IS BEING ON
TV AND HAVING A PAGE JOB FOR
THESE KIDS.

Karen says RIGHT.
AND IF YOU GET 49,000 PEOPLE
APPLYING FOR THE SURVIVOR
ONE AND YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE
WHO ARE WILLING TO
PARTICIPATE FOR LOFTERS,
THERE'S GOING TO BE ENDLESS
AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO
DO THIS.

Antonia says I BET THERE'S 10 MILLION
CANADIANS, I BET 10 MILLION
CANADIANS WISH THEY COULD
GET ON SURVIVOR.

Karen says YOU THINK SO.

Antonia says AND WHO THINK THEY CAN
ACTUALLY PULL IT OFF.

John says THE FUTURE IS UP TO THE
PUBLIC.
IT DEPENDS WHAT THEY WILL
WATCH.
WHAT THEY WILL SUSTAIN AND
WHAT THEIR TASTE IS.
IF THEY GET ENTIRELY BORED
WITH IT, YOU'RE GOING SEE IT
FADE.
IF THEY, IF THERE ARE
CONCEPTS THAT THEY LIKE,
YOU'RE GOING SEE THOSE
REPEET.
IT'S UP TO THE PUBLIC.

Karen says BUT THAT'S THE
QUESTION I GUESS RIGHT NOW
IN THIS URGELY STAGES OF IT,
EVEN THOUGH IT FEELS LIKE
IT'S ABOUT AROUND A LOT
LONGER, IS IT A FAD?
CAN THAT QUESTION BE
ANSWERED YET, DO YOU THINK
ZON.

John says I THINK IT IS.
I THINK RIGHT NOW IT'S A
PHASE OF TELEVISION.
I THINK IT WILL EVENTUALLY
SLOWLY FADE AWAY.
AND WE'LL, WE'LL GET MORE
DRAMAS AND SITCOMS BACK ON
TELEVISION IN A COUPLE OF
YEARS.

Antonia says SEE, I DON'T SEE IT AS A
FAD, YOU KNOW?
I THINK IT'S JUST A LOT OF
HYPE.
I MEAN, YOU MADE A GREAT
POINT ABOUT THE FASCINATION
WITH DEATH.
THAT'S A FAD.
NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT IT
BECAUSE IT ISN'T AS SEXY.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REALITY
TV, SO EVERYBODY THINKS IT'S
TAKING OVER TELEVISION.
IT'S NOT.

Karen says WOW, WE SEEM TO
HAVE GONE THROUGH SO MANY
EXAMPLES OF IT IN THIS
DISCUSSION HERE IN AN HOUR
AND YOU SAY WE'RE GOING TOY
MORE.
IS IT GOING TO BE CONSTANTLY
TRYING TO PUSH THE
ENVELOPE --

Antonia says SURE, WE'VE GOT EXTREME
FOOTBALL COMING DOWN THE
TUBE.
WATCH WHAT HAPPENS TO
SPORT -- BATTLEBOX.
WHAT IS THAT?

John says XFL IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
IF GUYS AREN'T GOING TO
WATCH IT IT'S NOT GOING TO
LAST.
I MEAN REALLY, IT'S UP TO
THE PUBLIC.

Karen says BUT HOW FAR WILL
THE ENVELOPE BE PUSHED I
GUESS IS MY QUESTION, IF
WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE OF
IT AND YOU'RE GOING TO KEEP
TRYING TO TOP IT, WE'RE
GETTING EVERY CREATIVE
POSSIBILITY --

Antonia says ARE YOU ASKING ARE WE
GOING TO SEE LIVE EX
CONSTITUTIONS?

Karen says THAT'S RIDICULOUS,
I DON'T THINK WE'LL GO THAT
FAR.
SO HOW DO WE GO IN TERMS OF
THE SEX?
BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE
WHAT'S SELLING A LOFTS THE
STUFF.

Antonia says AS FAR AS THE ADVERTISERS
ARE WILLING TO RISK IT
REALLY.

John says ABSOLUTELY.

Karen says AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES
TEMPTATION ISLAND SO
INTERESTING.
BECAUSE IF SEARS PULLS OUT
AND THE RATINGS ARE THERE
BUT THEY HAVE PEOPLE WHO
AREN'T WILLING TO BE A PART
OF IT --

John says THAT MIGHT CHANGE, TOO, I
THINK, IF YOU GET ANOTHER
MAJOR ADVERTISER, SAY A DOT
COM COMPANY OR SOMETHING
LIKE THAT, THAT IS SKEWED,
AIMED AT A MUCH YOUNGER
AUDIENCE, IF THEY STICK WITH
IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER IF
SEARS GOES AWAY.

Antonia says BEER ADS.

Karen says SOMEONE ELSE WILL FILL
IN.

Antonia says YEAH.

Karen says SO THREE MONTHS OF THIS
IN TERMS OF SURVIVOR 2.
YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE
GLUED TO YOUR COUCH EVERY
TUESDAY FOR IT.

Antonia says I HAVE NO CHOICE.

Karen says JOHN, DO YOU HAVE A
CHOICE?

John says NOT REALLY, NO.

Karen says DO YOU HAVE TO WATCH
EVERY EPISODE?

John says NOT EVERY EPISODE.
I'LL PROBABLY TAPE IT.
I'LL KEEP AN EYE ON IT.
THAT'S WHAT I'M PAID TO DO.

Karen says IF YOU WEREN'T TAPING IT,
WOULD YOU WATCH IT?

John says OCCASIONALLY, SURE, FOR
PURE ENTERTAINMENT.

Karen says THAT'S FAIR.
APPRECIATE ALL YOUR INPUT,
WE'RE GOING TO WATCH AND SEE
HOW ALL OF THIS DOES.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR COMING IN,
BOTH OF YOU.
APPRECIATE IT.
ANTONIA ZERBSIAS, A
TELEVISION CRITIC FOR THE
STAR AND JOHN DOYLE, A
TELEVISION CRITIC FOR THE
“GLOBE AND MAIL,” AS WE
POINTED OUT THE TWO TRIBES
JOINING US HERE TODAY AND IF
YOU WANT SOME FUN SITES ON
THE WEB, HERE'S SOME GREAT
SITES WE'VE GOT FOR YOU.

A slate appears with the caption “Survivor. www.survivorsucks.com.”

Karen says MANY THINK ACTUALLY THE
CREATORS OF THE SHOW HAVE
SET THAT UP THEMSELVES, BUT
CHECK IT OUT.

Another slate reads “Reality TV shows. www.realityblurred.com.”

Karen says FOR UPDATES ON THE REALITY
TV SHOWS, ALL OF THEM.
OR TUNE INTO THE LOFTERS.

Another slate reads “The Lofters. www.u8tv.com.”

Karen says THAT’S ALL FOR TODAY.
JOIN US MONDAYS THROUGH FRIDAYS FOR
MORE TO LIFE.

Watch: Reality TV