Transcript: Egyptology | Jan 04, 2001

(music plays)
The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle as several words fly by - nutrition, medicine, prevention, treatment, health.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house - “More to Life.”

Maureen Taylor sits in a studio with yellow walls, behind her is a logo on the wall which reads “More to life.”

Maureen is in her late thirties, with wavy red hair in a bob. She’s wearing an open light blue zip coat over a black turtleneck top.

MAUREEN says HELLO, I'M
MAUREEN TAYLOR AND WELCOME
TO DAY THREE OF OUR “OLOGY WEEK.”
TODAY EGYPTOLOGY.
ROBERTA SHAW IS AN
EGYPTOLOGIST AT THE ROYAL
ONTARIO MUSEUM.
JUST A MONTH AGO SHE WAS
WALKING LIKE AN EGYPTIAN
INTO ANCIENT PYRAMIDS AND TOMBS.
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT
MUMMIES, PHARAOHS, THE PYRAMIDS AND
MAYBE JUST THE EVERYDAY LIFE IN
ANCIENT EGYPT, THEN GIVE US A CALL.
IN TORONTO YOU DIAL 416-484-2727.
IF IT'S LONG DISTANCE, OUR TOLL FREE NUMBER
IS 1-888-411-1234 OR YOU CAN USE THE
INTERNET AND e-mail YOUR QUESTIONS FOR
ROBERTA TO MORETOLIFE AT TVO.ORG.”
AND WE HAVE FAMILY PASSES TO THE ROM TO
GIVE AWAY TO FIVE LUCKY CALLERS OR EMAILERS WHOSE
QUESTIONS GET TO AIR.

Turning to Roberta, she says AND ROBERTA, WELCOME. HI.

Roberta sits in a red armchair facing her. She is in her forties with short black hair and a fringe, and wears a red dress with a white turtleneck collar. A caption reads “Roberta Shaw, Egyptologist.”

ROBERTA says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MAUREEN says TELL US ABOUT
YOUR RECENT TRIP TO EGYPT.
WHAT WERE YOU DOING THERE?

ROBERTA says WELL I WAS
THERE FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS MOSTLY
PLEASURE BECAUSE I WAS
LEADING A TOUR TO EGYPT ON
BEHALF OF THE TRAVEL PEOPLE
AT THE ROYAL ONTARIO MUSEUM.
WE DO ORGANIZE TOURS TO
EGYPT AND I WAS ALONG TO --
WELL TO DO VERY MUCH WHAT
I'M DOING TODAY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
AND THEN I STAYED ON AFTER
THAT AND I WORKED IN MY OWN
TOMB, SO TO SPEAK, AND IT'S
A PROJECT THAT I'M DOING
WITH MY CO-DIRECTOR WHO
LIVES IN EGYPT.
AND SHE AND I ARE SIMPLY
LOOKING AT THE TOMB.
WE'RE COPYING ALL THE
PAINTINGS THAT ARE ON THE
WALL OF THE TOMB.
SO SIMPLY WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT.

MAUREEN says WHOSE TOMB IS IT?

ROBERTA says IT IS THE
TOMB OF A NOBLEMAN WHO LIVED
ACTUALLY DURING THE TIME OF
KING TUT'S GRANDFATHER, AMENHOTEP THE THIRD,
AND THE MAN'S NAME IS AMENMOSE
AND HE WAS THE KING'S
REPRESENTATIVE, THE STEWARD
IN THE TOWN OF THEBES,
WHICH IS WHERE THE GREAT
TEMPLE OF KARNAK IS, AND
WHERE, JUST ACROSS THE RIVER,
IS THE LOCATION OF THE
FAMOUS “VALLEY OF THE KINGS,”
WHERE IS WHERE KING TUT AND
HIS GRANDFATHER AMENHOTEP
THE THIRD ARE BURIED.

MAUREEN says IS THAT WHERE
THE RAMSES GUYS WE HEAR ABOUT ARE
BURIED --?

ROBERTA says OH, YES,
ALL THE FAMOUS PHARAOHS OF
THE 18th, 19th AND 20th
DYNASTIES ARE BURIED IN THE
VALLEY OF THE KINGS. SO
THERE'S LOTS OF TOMBS THERE,
AND JUST AS YOU GO UP OVER
THE HILL ON THE OTHER SIDE
OF THE VALLEY, THAT'S WHERE
ALL THE NOBLEMEN WHO SERVED
THE PHARAOHS IN LIFE COULD
BE CLOSE TO THEM AND ALSO SERVE THEM
IN DEATH.

MAUREEN says SO DID THEY HAVE
CEMETERIES IN ANCIENT EGYPT THE WAY WE DO?

ROBERTA says YES AND NO.
SORT OF THE MORE UNIMPORTANT
FOLK WOULD DO A CEMETERY AFFAIR.
WE WOULD BE PERHAPS BURIED
IN A PIT AND AND SOME SORT
OF TOMBSTONE PLACED ON TOP.
IF YOU WERE A PERSON OF SOME
MEANS, YOU COULD AFFORD TO
MAKE YOURSELF A TOMB THAT
WOULD BE HEWN OUT OF THE CLIFF.
THEY JUST DUG STRAIGHT INTO
THE LIMESTONE CLIFF WHICH IS
NOT A TERRIFICALLY HARD STONE.
NOT THAT HARD TO DO.
AND SOME HAD SEVERAL ROOMS,
AS A MATTER OF FACT.
AND A LITTLE COURTYARD.
AMENMOSE, MY CHAP, TOMB NUMBER 89
BY THE WAY, THEY'RE ALL
NUMBERED, AND IT'S HIGH UP
IN THE HILL, I'VE A LONG
CLIMB EVERY DAY TO GET UP
THERE, A LITTLE COURTYARD IN
FRONT WHERE FAMILY COULD
GATHER ON FESTIVALS TO
HONOUR THEIR DEAD.
IT WAS IMPORTANT TO HONOUR
THEIR DEAD IN EGYPT AND THEY
WOULD GATHER THERE.
BUT ALWAYS A SHAFT.
THE TOMB ITSELF WITH ALL THE
LOVELY PAINTINGS, AND THAT'S
HOW WE LEARN A LOT ABOUT
LIFE IN ANCIENT EGYPT, WOULD
BE SIMPLY FOR CEREMONIES,
FOR THE BURIAL AND ALSO FOR
PEOPLE GOING IN TO LEAVE
TOMB OFFERINGS.
THEY WOULD GO DOWN IN A SHAFT,
SOMETIMES IN THE TOMB,
SOMETIMES IN THE COURTYARD
AND THE PERSON WOULD BE BURIED
IN THE LITTLE ROOM AT THE
BOTTOM OF THAT SHAFT.
I HAVEN'T BEEN INTO THE
SHAFT YET.

MAUREEN says WHY NOT?

ROBERTA says WELL FIRST
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE
ROOMS OF THE TOMB CHAPEL
ITSELF ARE THOROUGHLY COPIED
SO THAT ANY DUST I MIGHT
RISE DIGGING UP THE SHAFT
WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH
COPYING THE PAINTING.

MAUREEN says SO THE MUMMY'S DOWN THERE?

ROBERTA says I DOUBT IT.
THERE ARE VERY, VERY FEW
TOMBS IN ANCIENT EGYPT OR
EGYPT TODAY THAT WERE NOT PLUNDERED.
MOSTLY IN ANCIENT TIMES,
MOSTLY VERY SOON AFTER THE
BURIAL, I SHOULD THINK, OR
PERHAPS WITHIN A COUPLE OF
CENTURIES, I SHOULD THINK.
GENERALLY DURING THE HEIGHT
OF EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION,
THE 18th AND 19th DYNASTIES,
THE TOMB AREAS WERE WELL
GUARDED AND NOBODY ROBBED THEM
AND THEN THEY WENT
INTO DECLINE AND THEY WERE
WIDE OPEN TO ROBBERS AND
THAT'S WHEN MOST OF IT HAPPENED.
SO I DON'T EXPECT TO FIND
ANYTHING BUT TO DO THE
PROJECT THOROUGHLY AS IT SHOULD BE
DONE - THERE'S A SMALL CHANCE,
THERE'S A SMALL CHANCE THAT HE'S THERE.
IF HE'S THERE, THERE WILL BE
A MUMMY AND COFFIN AND
PROBABLY A SARCOPHAGUS THAT IS
A PAINTED AND A FEW FUNERARY
ITEMS SUCH AS WHAT WE CALL
CANOPIC JARS - THESE ARE JARS
INTO WHICH THE ENTRAILS WERE PUT.

MAUREEN says THEY MUMMIFIED ALL THOSE THINGS --

ROBERTA says STICKY
SUBJECT, ISN'T IT?
YES, BUT THAT MIGHT BE THERE.
AND A COUPLE -- MAYBE SOME
AMULETS ON THE MUMMY AND THERE
MIGHT BE A LITTLE BOX
CONTAINING SHAWAPTE FIGURES,
GENERALLY PLACED CLOSE TO THE MUMMY.
SHOULD I TALK ABOUT THEM?

MAUREEN, holding up a small bright blue figurine, says YEAH, SHOW THIS

ROBERTA says IS IT THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT
THIS FIGURE?
OKAY, WE GET THAT.
THIS IS WHAT WE CALL A
SHAWAPTE, AND THEY'RE VERY,
VERY COMMON IN BURIALS.
PEOPLE COULD BE BURIED --
SOME PEOPLE HAD ONE FOR EACH
DAY OF THE YEAR, 365 PLUS
TEN OR ELEVEN OVERSEERS AND
THESE LITTLE CHARACTERS ARE
BASICALLY SERVANTS FOR THE DEAD.

A close-up shows a small figurine with a large head.

Roberta continues AND WHAT THEY -- WHAT THEY
ARE, AS YOU CAN SEE, THEY'RE
SORT OF LITTLE MUMMIFIED
CHARACTERS, AND I DON'T KNOW
IF YOU'RE GETTING CLOSE
ENOUGH, HE'S GOT A LITTLE
HOE ON ONE HAND AND I THINK
HE'S GOT -- HE'S GOT A
LITTLE BASKET ON THE OTHER SIDE.
AND BASICALLY THESE ARE VERY
OFTEN INSCRIBED WITH WHAT IS
KNOWN AS CHAPTER SIX OF THE
BOOK OF THE DEAD, AND IT
GOES SOMETHING LIKE... “OH
SHAWAPTE, IF I'M CALLED UPON
IN THE NEXT WORLD TO MOVE
EARTH, FERTILIZE THE LAND,
TO BRING SOMETHING FROM ONE
SIDE OF THE RIVER TO THE
OTHER, YOU WILL STAND UP AND
YOU WILL SAY HERE I AM, I
WILL DO IT.”
SO THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO WILL
DO MANUAL LABOUR FOR YOU IN
THE NEXT LIFE.

MAUREEN says WHEN YOU'RE DEAD.

ROBERTA says ABSOLUTELY.

MAUREEN says AND SO THIS IS A
VERY COMMON COLOUR FOR THESE.
IT'S A FAVOURITE COLOUR, A
GOOD LUCK COLOUR, IT'S THE
COLOUR OF LIFE.
BLUE AND GREEN IS THE COLOUR
OF LIFE IN ANCIENT EGYPT.

MAUREEN says AND HOW OLD DO
YOU EXPECT THAT IS?

ROBERTA says THIS IS
21st DYNASTY, BECAUSE THE
INSCRIPTION -- WELL FOR ONE
THING, IT'S THE TYPICAL 21st
DYNASTY ITEM AND THIS IS A
VERY, VERY SIMPLE INSCRIPTION.
IT'S NOT INSCRIBED WITH THAT
PARTICULAR VERSE OF THE BOOK
OF THE DEAD, BUT IT JUST
SAYS “THE ENLIGHTENED ONE,
THE OSIRIS, WHO IS A GOD OF
THE DEAD, AND WHEN YOU DIED
YOU SORT OF BECAME OSIRIS -
YOU FUSED WITH OSIRIS.
AND IT'S A KING.
AND I CAN'T QUITE MAKE OUT
HIS NAME.
IT'S A VERY ROUGH WRITING
BUT IT'S ONE OF THE KINGS OF
THE 21st DYNASTY, FOR SURE.

MAUREEN says THAT WOULD BE WHAT YEAR?

ROBERTA says WE'RE LOOK
AT ABOUT 1000 B.C. FOR THIS ONE.

MAUREEN says 1000 B.C. - BUT THE WRITING IS
STILL SO CLEAR, LIKE
INDELIBLE INK THAT NEVER FADED.
WHAT DID THEY USE?

ROBERTA says THIS IS GLAZED.
IT'S A SUBSTANCE CALLED
GLAZED COMPOSITION OR FAIENCE,
AND I CALL IT THE PLASTIC OF
ANCIENT EGYPT BECAUSE
EVERYBODY COULD AFFORD FAIENCE,
IT WAS LIKE AFFORDING
PLASTIC TODAY.
IT'S GROUND QUARTZ AND
IT'S MOULDED INTO WHATEVER
YOU WANT, BEADS, AMULETS,
SHAWAPTES, MOULDED, FIRED
THEN GLAZED AND YOU'VE GOT
THIS BEAUTIFUL BLUE GLAZE
AND THIS IS JUST A BLACK
GLAZE THAT'S BEEN PAINTED ON
UNDER THE BLUE GLAZE, FIRED
AND THERE YOU HAVE IT.
IT'S LIKE A COFFEE CUP, ESSENTIALLY.
AND STURDY AS A COFFEE CUP.

MAUREEN says VERY COOL.
ROBERTA SHAW HAS BROUGHT A
LOT OF THINGS FROM THE
R.O.M. FOR US TO SEE.
THEY'RE THOUSANDS OF YEARS
OLD, I'M REALLY SURPRISED
THEY LET HER OUT OF THE
BUILDING WITH THEM.
THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO TALK
TO AN EGYPTOLOGIST ABOUT
LIFE IN ANCIENT EGYPT.
WE HAVE PASSES BY THE WAY TO
THE ROM TO GIVE AWAY AS WELL
BUT YOU HAVE TO CALL WITH A
QUESTION.
HERE ARE THE NUMBERS.

Maureen recites the phone numbers and mail address.

MAUREEN says AND SABBA IS
CALLING FROM TORONTO.
HI SABBA.

SABBA says HI.

MAUREEN says HI.
WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION?

SABBA says HOW LONG -- DID
YOU EVER SEEN A MUMMY?

MAUREEN says OH, SHE'S SEEN
LOTS OF MUMMIES, YEAH.

ROBERTA says TO WANT
KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MUMMIES,
SABBA?

SABBA says YEAH.

ROBERTA says WHAT WOULD
YOU LIKE TO KNOW?

SABBA says HOW LONG DOES IT
TAKE TO MAKE A MUMMY.

ROBERTA says WE'RE NOT
ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN.
WE HAVE REFERENCE OF BOTH 40
DAYS AND 70 DAYS.
SO THEY THINK THAT PROBABLY
THE WHOLE PROCESS TOOK 70
DAYS, BUT TO ACTUALLY MAKE
THE MUMMY TOOK AROUND 40 DAYS.
NOW SHOULD I DESCRIBE THE PROCESS?

MAUREEN says PLEASE.

ROBERTA says OKAY.
NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THREE
THOUSAND YEARS OF MUMMY
MAKING AND IT DOES VARY
SLIGHTLY I'M SURE BUT
ESSENTIALLY TO MAKE A VERY
FINE MUMMY, THE BODY FIRST
IS DRAINED OF ITS BLOOD, OF COURSE.
THEN AN INCISION IS MADE IN
THE LOWER LEFT ABDOMEN,
SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE.
AND -- DID YOU GET THAT?
LOWER LEFT ABDOMEN.
AN INCISION IS MADE AND THEN
THE ENTRAILS ARE TAKEN OUT
AND THEN OF THOSE ENTRAILS,
THE HUMAN ENTRAILS, WE HAVE
THE STOMACH, THE LIVER, THE
INTESTINES, AND THE LUNGS
ARE THEN MADE INTO SORT OF
LITTLE MUMMIES THEMSELVES.
AND ALL THIS IS SOAKED --
THEN THE BODY IS SOAKED AND
THOSE FOUR ENTRAILS ARE
SOAKED IN WHAT WE CALL
NATRON WHICH IS KIND OF A
BAKING SODA.
A COMBINATION OF BICARBONATE
OF SODA AND SODIUM CHLORIDE, I THINK.
ANYWAY, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A SALT.
YOU'RE PICKLING, ESSENTIALLY.

MAUREEN says YOU'RE PICKLING.

ROBERTA says THEY SOAK
IT IN SALT AND THEY SOAK IT
ON A SLAB, AND THE LIQUIDS
RUN OFF AND THEY JUST KEEP
RENEWING THE SALT AND IT IS
THOUGHT THAT THAT PROBABLY
TOOK ABOUT 40 DAYS.
THEN YOU HAVE A DESSICATED, DRIED, BASICALLY
A DRIED-UP BODY.
SOMETIMES THE BODY IS
PACKED -- AND YOU WERE
ASKING ME EARLIER ABOUT
OLIVES BEING FOUND IN MUMMIES.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IS
THEY WERE PACKED WITH
WHATEVER WAS HANDY, BITS OF
LINEN, STRAW, MUD SOMETIMES
TO SORT OF FILL THE BODY
OUT, AND THEN THE BODY WAS
WRAPPED, AND THE FINGERS ARE
WRAPPED, THE TOES, THE LEGS,
THE ARMS, THEN THE BODY
WRAPPED AND THEN THE WHOLE
THING WRAPPED.
METRES AND METRES AND METRES
OF LINEN ARE USED FOR THIS
AND VERY OFTEN AMULETS ARE
PLACED WITHIN THOSE
WRAPPINGS, AND THIS IS WHERE
I THINK THE EXTRA 30 DAYS
COMES FROM.
IT WAS A HOLY AND A SACRED
PROCESS.
IT WAS PRIESTS INVOLVED IN
DOING THIS.
PROBABLY MEMBERS OF THE
FAMILY AS WELL.
AND DURING THE WRAPPING
AMULETS WOULD BE PLACED
WITHIN THE WRAPPINGS.
AND SHALL I SHOW ONE?

MAUREEN says WHAT'S AN AMULET?

ROBERTA says IT'S KIND
OF A GOOD LUCK CHARM OR
PROTECTIVE THING THAT IS
IMBUED WITH MAGIC AND SPELLS.
THE PRIEST WOULD SAY A SPELL
OVER AN AMULET AND PUT IT ON
THE MUMMY AND THAT WOULD
PROTECT THE MUMMY.
CAN WE GET THAT?

She holds a tiny amulet in the palm of her hand.

Roberta continues THIS IS THE MOST POPULAR
AMULET AND IT IS THE --
ACTUALLY WE CALL IT THE
SACRED EYE OF HORUS, OR THE
WIDGET EYE, OKAY?
AND IT'S LINKED TO A MYTH
WHERE THE GOD HORUS HAD HIS
EYE INJURED AND THE GOD
THOTH RESTORED IT AND IT WAS
BETTER THAN NEW SO WHAT THIS
MEANS IS IT'S RESTORATIVE.
AND OF COURSE, A MUMMY NEEDS
TO BE RESTORED TO LIFE, SO THIS
LITTLE AMULET MAKES SURE
THEY WILL RESTORE LIFE TO
YOU IN THE AFTERWORLD, OF COURSE.
AND THIS IS ANOTHER LITTLE AMULET.
THIS IS AN AMULET FOR
STABILITY AND STRENGTH.
OSIRIS IS THE GOD OF DEATH
AND THIS REPRESENTS THE
BACKBONE OF OSIRIS.
AND IT'S THE JED PILLAR, AND
THE WORD JED MEANS STRENGTH
AND STABILITY.
AND THIS IS PLACED ON THE
MUMMY AS WELL AND IT ENSURES
THAT YOU'LL BE STRONG AND
VIRILE IN THE NEXT LIFE.
SO I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IS
THIS BUSINESS OF 70 DAYS,
IT'S A MATTER OF RITUAL AND
PRAYERS AND WRAPPING, AND
THE FUNERAL ITSELF WAS A
GRAND AFFAIR WITH LOTS OF GIFTS.
LOTS OF GIFTS WENT INTO THE
TOMB AND A PROCESSION --

MAUREEN says DOING IT RIGHT.
IT TOOK A WHILE.

ROBERTA says DOING IT
BIG AND RIGHT AND LOTS OF
WEEPING AND WAILING AS WELL.

MAUREEN says MY SON HAS A
BOOK OF MUMMIES AND IN IT
SAYS THEY HAVE THIS
INSTRUMENT - THEY TOOK THE
BRAINS OUT THROUGH THE NOSE.

ROBERTA says OH, I
FORGOT TO MENTION THAT!

MAUREEN says KIDS LOVE THIS.

ROBERTA says WE DON'T
PARTICULARLY LIKE TO THINK
OF THIS ONE.
YES, THE EGYPTIANS FELT THE
INTELLIGENCE AND THE EMOTIONS
WERE IN THE HEART AND AH,
THAT'S WHY THEY LEFT THE
HEART IN THE BODY.
YOU HAD TO GO TO THE OTHER
WORLD WITH YOUR INTELLIGENCE
AND YOUR EMOTIONS AND YOUR
HEART, OF COURSE, AND TO A
CERTAIN EXTENT, WE --
TO A CERTAIN EXTENT WE ALSO THINK
THE EMOTION IS IN THE HEART.
WE'RE ALWAYS SAYING I'M
HEARTSICK OR HEARTBROKEN.
AT ANY RATE, THEY THOUGHT
THIS WAS JUST STUFFING, YOU
KNOW, AND SO OUT IT CAME AND
THEY PUT A HOOK UP THROUGH
THE NOSE -- USUALLY THE LEFT
NOSTRIL, AS A MATTER OF FACT,
SORT OF STIRRED IT AROUND
AND LET IT DRAIN OUT.
AND I'D LIKE TO MENTION THAT
I THINK SOME PEOPLE OUT
THERE WILL HAVE HEARD THAT
THERE'S A PIECE OF BONE
FLOATING IN KING TUT'S SKULL
AND THEY THINK IT'S A PIECE
OF BROKEN SKULLBONE THAT
THEREFORE HE WAS BOPPED ON
THE HEAD AND DONE IN THAT WAY.
BUT A LOT OF EGYPTOLOGISTS
SIMPLY THINK THAT WHEN GOING
UP THE NOSE YOU HAVE TO
BREAK THE ETHMOID BONE IT'S
PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF
THAT BONE THAT GOT PUSHED
BACK INTO THE SKULL.

MAUREEN says THERE.
SEE, KIDS AT HOME ARE GOING
OH, THAT'S COOL!
LET'S GO TO NATASHA IN
GLENCOE, NEXT.
HI NATASHA.

NATASHA says HI.
I WANT TO KNOW HOW DO YOU
READ THE HIEROGLYPHICS ON
THE WALLS?

ROBERTA says WELL, WE
READ THEM VERY MUCH LIKE
READING ANY OTHER LANGUAGE
ON THE WALLS.
YOU SIMPLY -- TO LEARN
HIEROGLYPHS YOU HAVE TO GO
TO UNIVERSITY AND YOU TAKE
HIEROGLYPHIC JUST AS YOU
TAKE FRENCH, ENGLISH, GERMAN,
SPANISH, WHATEVER.
FIRST YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE
ALPHABET AND THEN YOU HAVE
TO LEARN A LOT OF OTHER
SIGNS BESIDES THE ALPHABET.
SO THERE ARE ABOUT 700 SIGNS
IN HIEROGLYPHS AND I DON'T
HAVE THEM ALL MEMORIZED.
WE HAVE LITTLE DICTIONARIES
AND “CHEAT SHEETS” WE LEARN
FOR THAT AND INSCRIPTIONS
CAN BE DIFFICULT.
WHEN I WAS LOOKING --
WORKING IN MY TOMB AND
LOOKING AT INSCRIPTIONS A
COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO
BASICALLY I'M USING MY CHEAT
SHEET TO MAKE SURE I'VE GOT
EACH SIGN PROPERLY READ, AND
THEN I COPY THOSE DOWN AND I,
YOU KNOW, CAN READ MOST OF
IT, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHAT
THINGS TO EXPECT.
THAT MAKES IT EASIER.
WE HAVE THE OPENING OF THE
MOUTH CEREMONY, WHICH IS A
CEREMONY THAT THEY DID FOR
THE MUMMY WHERE THEY OPENED
THE MOUTH TO CAUSE IT TO LIVE.
BUT NO INSCRIPTION IS ENTIRELY
THE SAME, SO THERE ARE LITTLE
NUANCES SO I COPY THAT
DOWN AND THEN I COME BACK TO
MY DESK AT THE ROM AND GET
MY DICTIONARY AND GRAMMAR
AND WE MAKE SURE WE'VE GOT
THE INSCRIPTIONS RIGHT, SO
IT'S VERY MUCH LIKE ANY
OTHER LANGUAGE.
IT'S NOT HORRIFICALLY DIFFICULT.
THERE'S A LOT OF MEMORIZING
OF SIGNS, AND THERE'S A LOT
OF WORDS WE DON'T KNOW
BECAUSE -- FOR INSTANCE A
LOT OF PLANTS AND
INGREDIENTS IN MEDICINES WE
DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY --
WE KNOW IT'S A PLANT BUT WE
DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT
PLANT THEY MEAN BECAUSE WE
DON'T HAVE A PICTURE OF THE PLANT.

MAUREEN says NOW IT WAS
DIFFERENT FROM OTHER
LANGUAGES IN THAT IT WAS
A DEAD LANGUAGE WHEN
HISTORIANS LIKE YOURSELF
WANTED TO FIGURE IT OUT.

ROBERTA says EXACTLY, RIGHT.

MAUREEN says MAYBE YOU COULD
TELL US ABOUT -- IS IT THE
ROSETTA TONE THAT WAS
RESPONSIBLE?

ROBERTA says IT IS.
WE PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE
ABLE TO READ THEM TODAY
WITHOUT THE ROSETTA STONE,
IT SEEMS WITH ALL DEAD
LANGUAGES YOU NEED THAT KEY,
WHICH IS A BILINGUAL TEXT
AND SUBSTANTIAL.
THERE WAS ENOUGH GREEK AND
DEMOTIC WHICH IS ANOTHER
FORM -- IT'S SORT OF THE
STEP BETWEEN HIEROGLYPHS AND
COPTIC WHICH IS YET ANOTHER
LANGUAGE, ANYWAY, NOT TO CONFUSE YOU
IT WAS IN THREE LANGUAGES.
GREEK WAS KNOWN.
EVERYBODY -- GREEK WAS KNOWN.
AND THEN HIEROGLYPHS ON THE
BOTTOM SO THEY JUST SIMPLY
LOOKED AND KNEW THAT IT
MEANT THE SAME THING.
IT WAS A BILINGUAL
DESCRIPTION AND THERE WAS A
GREAT GENIUS WORKING IN
FRANCE BY THE NAME OF
CHAMPOLLION IN 1822,
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, 100
YEARS EXACTLY BEFORE THE
DISCOVERY OF KING TUT'S TOMB -
HE HAD A BREAKTHROUGH.
HE JUST SIMPLY LOOKED -- HE
GOT THE NAMES.
HE KNEW THAT THE NAME OF
CLEOPATRA WAS ON THE UPPER
INSCRIPTION AND HE KNEW THAT
IT HAD TO BE CLEOPATRA IN
THE LOWER INSCRIPTION, HE
GOT THOSE LETTERS TOGETHER,
AND THEN HE JUST -- ONCE HE
GOT THAT, HE REALLY COULD
MAKE OUT EVERYTHING --
EVERYTHING SORT OF FELL INTO PLACE.
IT WAS ROUGH. I MEAN, WHEN HE PRESENTED
HIS LETTER TO THE FRENCH
ACADEMY, PEOPLE SUSPICIOUS
BS, BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENED
IS HE TAUGHT OTHER
LINGUISTIC GENIUSES, AS A
MATTER OF FACT, WHAT HE
THOUGHT, THEY WERE EACH
GIVEN THEN AN INSCRIPTION TO
DO ON THEIR OWN AND THEY ALL
BASICALLY CAME UP WITH THE
SAME THING. SO I MEAN --

MAUREEN says SO YOU KNEW.

ROBERTA says YEAH, YEAH,
AND THEN REFINED AND REFINED
AND REFINED SINCE THAT TIME.

MAUREEN says THANKS NATASHA
FOR THAT QUESTION.
“CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IS THE
SIGNIFICANCE OF CATS IN THE
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CULTURE?
I'VE SEEN IT IN SEVERAL
MOVIES AND ON TV BUT NO ONE
I ASKED WAS ABLE TO TELL ME
WHY THEY WERE CONSIDERED
SORT OF A RELIGIOUS ICON.”

ROBERTA says WELL A LOT
OF ANIMALS WERE RELIGIOUS
ICONS IN ANCIENT EGYPT.
AS A MATTER OF FACT A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK
THEY WORSHIPED ANIMALS --
IT'S KIND OF A TRICKY THING.
THEY DIDN'T REALLY WORSHIP
AN ANIMAL BUT WHAT WE HAVE,
AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY IS
FAMILIAR WITH THESE
WONDERFUL EGYPTIAN GOD
STATUES WHERE YOU'VE
VERY OFTEN GOT THE BODY OF A
HUMAN AND THE HEAD OF AN ANIMAL.
VERY CONFUSING, BUT
AESTHETICLY PLEASING.
THEY WORKED.
THE EGYPTIANS DID IT VERY WELL.
I'LL PICK THIS UP AND SEE
AGAIN IF WE CAN GET -- MAYBE
I SHOULD PUT IT SIDEWAYS.
LET'S TRY FOR THIS.
THIS IS NOT A CAT BUT A LION,
CLOSELY RELATED TO A CAT OF
COURSE, AND IT'S THE GODDESS
SACMAT, THESE VERY OFTEN
WERE GIVEN AS NEW-YEAR'S PRESENTS.
AT ANY RATE IT'S THE ANIMAL
THAT IS IDENTIFIED WITH THE
GODDESS OR THE GOD.
SO WE HAVE THE FALCON
ASSOCIATED WITH HORUS, WE
HAVE THE LION ASSOCIATED
WITH SACMAT, WE HAVE THE CAT
ASSOCIATED WITH BASTET.
THAT WAS THE NAME OF THE
GODDESS THAT WAS ASSOCIATED
WITH THE CAT.
NOW SOMETIMES THESE GODDESSES
SHOW UP IN HUMAN FORM.
THAT'S WHY WE KNOW THEY'RE
NOT WORSHIPPING THE ANIMAL.
IT'S JUST THE ANIMAL THAT IS
ASSOCIATED WITH THE GOD OR GODDESS.
BUT THE CATS WERE
PARTICULARLY FAVOURED, AND I
THINK THEY'RE GREAT --
THEY'RE GREATLY POPULAR WITH PEOPLE.
THE EGYPTIAN CATS ARE
POPULAR EVEN WITH PEOPLE TODAY.
OUR SHOP WILL TELL YOU THAT.
THE CAT SELLS WELL.
BUT THEY HAD THEM AS PETS.
CATS WERE PROBABLY FIRST
DOMESTICATED IN ANCIENT
EGYPT AROUND 2,200 B.C.
THEY WERE ALL WILD BEFORE
THEN, WHEREAS THE DOG GOES BACK TO
10 AND 20,000 B.C. WE THINK.
AND THEY WERE DOMESTICATED
BECAUSE OF THEIR USEFULNESS
IN THE GRANARIES -
CATCHING MICE AND RATS, AND
THEN BROUGHT INTO THE HOME
AND MADE GREAT PETS OF.
AND GRADUALLY THE CAT THEN
BECAME A GODDESS.
IT BECAME ASSOCIATED WITH
BASTET WHO HAD PREVIOUSLY
BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH SETHMET
BECAUSE LIONS ARE KNOWN FROM
VERY EARLY ON.
SO BASICALLY THE CAT WAS
SACRED TO BASTET.
WE HAVE CEMETERIES OF
THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND
THOUSANDS OF MUMMIFIED CATS
IN SEVERAL AREAS OF EGYPT,
ONE, OF COURSE, IN BUBASTIS
WHICH IS “THE PLACE OF BASTET,”
WHERE THE GREAT TEMPLE OF
BASTET WAS FOUND, AND WE'RE NOT SURE.
THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE TO
SAY THAT CATS WERE ACTUALLY
KILLED TO FAVOUR THE GODDESS,
THEY WOULD BE MUMMIFIED,
WRAPPED, BEAUTIFULLY DONE UP,
SOME OF THEM.
WE HAVE A VERY NICE ONE IN
THE ROM EGYPTIAN GALLERY.
GO AND SEE IT.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL MUMMIFIED CAT.
BROUGHT INTO THE TEMPLE AND
PLACED AS A VOTIVE.
YOU'RE EITHER THANKING THE
GOD FOR SOMETHING OR ASKING
THE GOD FOR SOMETHING.
AND THESE WERE SIMPLY
STASHED IN, YOU KNOW, SORT
OF LINED UP IN SORT OF
PIGEON HOLES, IF YOU'LL
PARDON THE PUN, COMPARTMENTS
OUTSIDE THE TEMPLE.

MAUREEN says REALLY?

ROBERTA says MMM.

MAUREEN says OKAY.
AND THAT AGAIN, HER NAME?

ROBERTA says THIS IS
SACMET, A GREAT PROTECTIVE
GODDESS, I THINK SHE'S GIVEN
AS A NEW YEAR'S PRESENT
BECAUSE SHE'S GOING TO
PROTECT YOU FROM ALL
UNPLEASANT THINGS,
ESPECIALLY DISEASE, DURING
THE YEAR.
SHE WAS THE GODDESS WHO
ALMOST DESTROYED MANKIND
ONCE BUT SHE WAS STOPPED BY
THE OTHER GODS BEFORE SHE
WENT TOO FAR.

MAUREEN says OH, GOOD.
ALL RIGHT, HEATHER IN
TORONTO, WELCOME TO “MORE TO
LIFE.” HI.

HEATHER says HI.
I DO NOT THINK THE EGYPTIANS
WERE PARTICULARLY A WARLIKE
PEOPLE, AND THEY CHERISHED
THEIR FAMILY AND THEIR
CHILDREN SO, WOULD MOST OF
THE DEATHS BE NATURAL CAUSES?
AND CAN YOU DECIDE WHAT
NATURAL CAUSES IT WOULD BE?
PERHAPS CAN YOU SEE ARTHRITIS?
DO YOU GO WITH A MEDICAL
TEAM TO ANALYZE OR X-RAY THE MUMMIES?

ROBERTA says YES.
AND MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET ONE
OF THE ANTHROPOLOGISTS TO
COME ALONG AND TALK ABOUT MUMMIES.
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW A LOT
OF THE ANTHROPOLOGY ASPECTS OF IT.
IT'S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT.
BUT YES, MANY, MANY TEAMS.
ANYBODY WHO IS DIGGING UP
MUMMIES, AND I'M NOT, BUT
ANYONE WHO IS, CERTAINLY HAS
AN ANTHROPOLOGY TEAM, AND
THEY LOOK AT THE BONES.
ESSENTIALLY YOU'RE LOOKING
AT BONES, AND NOW THEY'RE
PLAYING AROUND WITH D.N.A. OF COURSE.
DNA'S NOT THAT EASY TO DO IN MUMMIES.
I THINK YOU NEED A TOOTH TO
GET ANYTHING REALLY GOOD.
THE DRIED SKIN ISN'T ENOUGH.
BUT AT ANY RATE, YES, THEY
LOOK AT IT SURE, LOTS OF
ARTHRITIS, OSTEOPOROSIS,
SOME LEPROSY, THEY'VE GOT
CANCER IDENTIFIED.
THEY'VE GOT YOUR KIND OF
TYPICAL DEFORMED CONGENITAL
THINGS THAT ARE WRONG.
CLUBBED FEET.
ONE OF THE PHARAOHS HAD A
CLUBBED FOOT, AS A MATTER OF FACT.
SO YES, YOU'RE RIGHT.
THEY WEREN'T PARTICULARLY
WARLIKE ALTHOUGH THEY DID
GO TO WAR.
THEY DID TRY FOR EMPIRE,
SORT OF MID-18th DYNASTY AND
DIDN'T DO A BAD JOB BUT
DIDN'T LAST VERY LONG.
AND THEN THERE WAS A COUPLE
OF TIMES WHEN THEY WERE
DOING -- THERE WAS CIVIL WAR
HAPPENING, SO YES, THEY DID
WAR AND PEOPLE WERE KILLED
IN MOST HORRIFIC WAYS.
BUT YES, NATURAL CAUSES WERE
THE, WAS THE BASIC CAUSE OF DEATH.
AND ESSENTIALLY, THEY DIED
EARLIER THAN WE DID.
ALTHOUGH THE EGYPTIANS WERE
NOTED TO BE VERY GOOD
DOCTORS AND THEY LENT THEIR
DOCTORS TO, -- YOU KNOW,
KINGS WOULD LEND THEIR
DOCTORS' SERVICES TO OTHER
KINGS WITHIN THE ANCIENT
NEAR EAST.
THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD
DO ABOUT INFECTION.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANTIBIOTICS.
THEY HAD TO HOPE FOR THE BEST.
AND WE HAVE A MUMMY AT THE
ROM, IT'S THE MUMMY THAT'S
STANDING UP IN A VERY
BEAUTIFUL MUMMY CASE.
SHE WAS X-RAYED AND SCANNED.
M.R.I. SCAN SEVERAL YEARS AGO
AT SICK KIDS HOSPITAL.

MAUREEN laughs and says OH, SHE CAN GET
AN M.R.I. THE REST OF US ARE ON
WAITING LISTS!

ROBERTA says NOW WAIT A MINUTE, IT WAS
DONE IN THE WEE HOURS OF THE MORNING.
I THINK THEY'RE DOING THAT
NOW, BUT THAT WAS BEFORE THEY
WERE -- IT WAS DONE THEN.
AT ANY RATE, A HORRIBLE
ABSCESSED TOOTH SHOWED UP ON HER.
AND IT WAS SO BAD THAT THEY
REALLY FEEL THAT SHE DIED
FROM THE INFECTION.
TODAY YOU WOULD SIMPLY GIVE
ANTIBIOTICS AND TAKE
THE TOOTH OUT AND YOU'D BE FINE.
BUT HERE WAS A WOMAN WHO
PROBABLY DIED OF THAT.

MAUREEN says DID YOU HAVE --
DO YOU HAVE A FAVOURITE
PERIOD IN ANCIENT EGYPT OR A
DYNASTY OR SOMETHING?

ROBERTA says WELL, UM, I
GUESS I'D HAVE TO SAY THE
18th DYNASTY, ALTHOUGH, GOSH,
THAT'S REALLY COMMON,
BECAUSE IT'S SORT OF
EVERYBODY'S FAVOURITE.

MAUREEN says WHO IS THAT?

ROBERTA says THAT'S KING TUT.
THAT'S KING TUT AND INTO THE
19th DYNASTY WHICH IS RAMSES,
RAMSES THE GREAT, WHO SHOWS
UP IN THE BIBLE.
THIS IS THE PERIOD --
BECAUSE I'M SO INTERESTED IN
DAILY LIFE, THIS IS THE
PERIOD THAT GIVES US MOST OF
THE TOMBS THAT WHEREIN WE
FIND A LOT OF ARTICLES OF
DAILY LIFE.
ALL THIS BUSINESS, JEWELS
AND AMULETS AND -- PLUS FURNITURE.
I MEAN KING TUT HAD A LOT OF
FURNITURE, HE HAD BEDS, AND
YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN
ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR TOMBS
FOUND INTACT WITH A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
DAILY -- A LAMP. THAT'S MY FAVOURITE.
THERE'S AN 18th DYNASTY TOMB
THAT WAS EXCAVATED BY THE
ITALIANS IN THE EARLY 1900s
AND THAT COLLECTION IS IN
TURIN IN ITALY AND THERE'S A
FLOOR LAMP AND IT'S JUST WONDERFUL.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT
REALLY -- THEY TURN ME ON A
LOT. I LOVE THIS.

MAUREEN says CLEOPATRA SHE'S
TOO RECENT FOR YOU?

ROBERTA says SHE'S TOO LATE.

MAUREEN says SHE CAME ALONG TOO LATE.

ROBERTA says ALTHOUGH
SHE WAS A FASCINATING MONARCH.

MAUREEN says ABSOLUTELY.
JOHNSON IS IN TORONTO.
HI, WELCOME.

JOHNSON says HELLO?

MAUREEN says HI.

JOHNSON says WHO IS KING TUT'S
FATHER, AND DID HE
ACTUALLY -- DID KING TUT'S
FATHER ACTUALLY HAVE A RICH LIFE
OR DID KING TUT BUILD UP THE
EMPIRE WHEN HE BECAME KING?

ROBERTA SHAW says AH.
WELL, FIRST OF ALL JOHNSON,
WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHO
KING TUT'S FATHER WAS AND
THAT'S A DEBATE AMONG
EGYPTOLOGISTS AND IT'S AN
ONGOING DEBATE.
THERE ARE ONLY TWO OR THREE
POSSIBILITIES.
WHEN I SAY KING TUT'S
GRANDFATHER, THAT'S -- I
THINK -- I JUST TOUCHED THAT, SORRY.
I THINK IT WAS PROBABLY --
THAT'S MY IDEA.
AMENHOTEP THE THIRD I THINK
HE'S KING TUT'S GRANDFATHER.
OTHER PEOPLE THINK HE'S KING
TUT'S FATHER.
THERE ARE OTHER EGYPTOLOGISTS, BETTER THAN I.
IT ALL DEPENDS ON AKHENATON,
WAS HE KING TUT'S FATHER OR
AKHENATON'S FATHER, WHO IS AMENHOTEP
THE THIRD, IF THEY
RULED TOGETHER, IF AMENHOTEP
THE THIRD AND AKHENATON RULED
TOGETHER, AND THAT'S NOT
IMPOSSIBLE, THEN MAYBE
AMENHOTEP THE THIRD LIVED
LONG ENOUGH TO BE THE FATHER
OF KING TUT WHO WOULD THEN
BE A BROTHER OF AKHENATON OR A
HALF-BROTHER, MAYBE BY ANOTHER WIFE.
MY OWN OPINION IS THAT AKHENATON
WAS KING TUT'S FATHER BUT
NEFERTITI, THE FAMOUS WIFE OF
AKHENATON WAS NOT KING TUT'S
MOTHER BUT ANOTHER WIFE BY
THE NAME OF KIA WAS PROBABLY
KING TUT'S MOTHER.
THAT'S THE CONFUSION.
YOU KNOW, MAYBE ONE DAY IT
WILL BE CLEARED UP.
IF SOME DAY AN INSCRIPTION
MIGHT TURN UP, YOU KNOW THIS
COULD CLEAR THE WHOLE THING
UP, ABSOLUTELY.
BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S A MOOT
POINT, AS THEY SAY.
KING TUT DIDN'T BUILD UP THE EMPIRE.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, HE
ALMOST LOST THE EMPIRE.
BUT THAT WAS COMING ALONG.
AKHENATON, HIS FATHER,
PERHAPS, SORT OF GAVE UP ANY
KIND OF EMPIRE BUILDING.
HE CARRIED ON A VERY ACTIVE,
DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENCE
WITH OTHER GREAT RULERS IN
THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST SO, IT
WAS A TIME OF GREAT PEACE.
AMANHOTEP THE THIRD, THE
GRANDFATHER, REALLY STARTED
THAT FULL DIPLOMATIC SERVICE,
SO TO SPEAK, AND WE HAVE
BILINGUAL TEXTS FOUND IN
EGYPT AND IT IS A TIME OF
GREAT PEACE, GREAT PROSPERITY,
GREAT WEALTH.
PROBABLY THE WEALTHIEST TIME
OF EGYPT AND FOR THE
EGYPTIAN PHARAOH WAS KING
TUT'S GRANDFATHER, KING
TUT'S FATHER, AND KING TUT
HIMSELF TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

MAUREEN says HOW LONG DID HE
LIVE, KING TUT?
THEY CALLED HIM THE BOY KING --

ROBERTA says RIGHT.
HE CAME TO THE THRONE WHEN
HE WAS PROBABLY NINE OR
TEN YEARS OLD AND RULED FOR
EIGHT OR NINE YEARS.
SO HE WAS -- YOU KNOW,
ALTHOUGH GROWN WHEN HE DIED,
HE WAS STILL PRETTY YOUNG.

MAUREEN says AND WE DON'T
KNOW HOW HE DIED?

ROBERTA says NO, WE DON'T.
AGAIN THERE'S THIS THEORY --
IT'S WHAT I CALL -- IT'S THE
TELEVISION THEORY, MAUREEN.
LET'S FACE IT - TV LIKES TO BE
SENSATIONAL.
AND ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SAY
KING TUT WAS MURDERED CAN
GET AIR TIME.
BUT I THINK -- IT'S A MYSTERY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW HE DIED.
I DON'T THINK HE WAS MURDERED.
I THINK ALL THE EVIDENCE
THEY PUT FORWARD FOR MURDER
CAN BE EXPLAINED IN
DIFFERENT -- IN ANOTHER WAY.

MAUREEN says WERE THEY INTO
THIS PRACTICE OF MARRYING
THEIR SISTERS BACK IN THAT DYNASTY?

ROBERTA says VERY OFTEN
THE PHARAOHS DID, YES.
ALL THROUGH.
ALL THROUGH EGYPTIAN HISTORY.
AND EVEN IN CLEOPATRA'S TIME.
YES, THEY MARRIED THEIR
BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
THIS KEPT POWER WITHIN THE FAMILY.

MAUREEN says IT ALSO
PROBABLY MADE THE GENE POOL
PRETTY WEAK THOUGH.

ROBERTA says SOMETIMES
WE THINK MAYBE IT WAS JUST A
FORMAL MARRIAGE AND PERHAPS
NOT A “REAL MARRIAGE.”
BUT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.
I AM TOLD BY PEOPLE WHO KNOW
MORE THAN I DO ABOUT
GENETICS THAT SOMETIMES THE
OPPOSITE IS TRUE.
THAT SOMETIMES YOU CAN GET
VERY BRILLIANT PEOPLE AS
WELL OUT OF A BROTHER/SISTER MARRIAGE.
I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW THAT.
I'VE NEVER SPOKEN TO ANYBODY
WHO KNOWS THAT FOR SURE.

MAUREEN says OKAY.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EGYPTOLOGY
THIS AFTERNOON WITH ROBERTA
SHAW, AN EGYPTOLOGIST AT THE
ROM, SHE'S ALSO GOT THIS
TOMB OVER IN EGYPT SHE'S
HELPING TO RECORD THE HIEROGLYPHICS
OFF THE WALLS AND THE PAINTINGS.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS
ABOUT EGYPTIAN LIFE, OR
CLEOPATRA, RAMSES, MUMMIES,
PHARAOHS, ALL THAT KIND OF
THING, GIVE US A CALL.

Maureen recites the phone numbers and mail address.

MAUREEN says AND WE HAVE
FAMILY PASSES TO THE ROM TO
GIVE AWAY TO SOME OF THE
LUCKY CALLERS AND E-MAILERS.
BECKY WRITES “HOW ARE THE
TOMBS INITIALLY DISCOVERED?
I ASSUME ULTRASOUND
EQUIPMENT IS USED TO FIND
THEM HIDDEN WITHIN THE ROCK.”

ROBERTA says THAT'S A
VERY GOOD QUESTION AND A
VERY NICE IDEA.
AND THERE IS SOME FORM OF
ULTRASOUND. IT'S CALLED A MAGNETOMETER
THAT ARE NOW BEING
EXPERIMENTED WITH.
I KNOW THAT THERE'S A
BRITISH TEAM LOOKING FOR THE
TOMB OF NEFERTITI IN THE
VALLEY OF THE KINGS AND
THEY WERE USING SOME OF THIS
MAGNETOMETER BUSINESS, BUT
WEREN'T HAVING ANY SUCCESS
WITH IT THE LAST TIME I WAS THERE.
HOW ARE THEY FIRST FOUND?
WELL, THAT GOES RIGHT BACK
TO ANCIENT EGYPT ITSELF,
BECAUSE AFTER THE COUNTRY
SORT OF WENT INTO DECLINE
AND IT WAS -- THE NOBLES AND
THE PHARAOHS WERE -- A., THEY
WERE TOO POOR TO BUILD
GRANDIOSE TOMBS AND B., THEY
COULDN'T PROTECT THEM, THE
POOR PEOPLE, LET'S FACE IT,
THE POOR PEOPLE WERE PLUNDERING.
THEY'D FILL THEM FULL OF
GOLD AND VALUABLE LINEN AND
JEWELRY, ET CETERA, USEFUL ITEMS.
THEY WERE PLUNDERED AND THEN
OF COURSE SOLD OFF FOR MONEY.
AND THEN CERTAINLY, I THINK
DURING THE MIDDLE AGES,
PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN THE TOMBS.
THEY HAD LONG SINCE BEEN PLUNDERED.
PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN THE TOMBS,
AND REALLY AS FAR AS THE
BIRTH OF EGYPTOLOGY, OUR OWN
SORT OF EUROPEAN INTEREST,
OUR EUROPEAN, WESTERN OR
AMERICAN, NORTH AMERICAN-EUROPEAN INTEREST REALLY
STARTED WHEN NAPOLEON WENT
INTO EGYPT.

MAUREEN says RIGHT.

ROBERTA says IN 1799 AND
WHAT HAPPENED WAS HE OPENED
UP EGYPT TO EUROPEAN STUDY.
HE WAS -- HE WAS A BRILLIANT
MAN IN MANY WAYS, AS WE ALL KNOW.
BUT HE BROUGHT IN -- WHEN HE
WENT IN TO EGYPT TO “FREE.”
EGYPT FROM THE TURKS, I'M NOT
SURE EGYPT REALLY WANTED
TO BE FREED FROM THE TURKS
AT THAT TIME, BUT THAT'S
GETTING INTO EUROPEAN
HISTORY, HE BROUGHT WITH HIM,
YOU KNOW, SEVERAL DOZEN
LEARNED PEOPLE, SCHOLARS.
THEY WENT WITH HIM AND
RECORDED ALL OF EGYPT.
AND THEY WERE BLOWN AWAY.
THEY LOOKED AT THE MONUMENTS,
THE GREAT TEMPLE OF KARNAK,
THE VALLEY OF THE KINGS,
THEY WERE EVERYWHERE.
THEY EXPLORED IT THOROUGHLY.
AND THEN AFTER THAT, EUROPE
WENT CRAZY ABOUT IT.
THERE WAS AN EGYPTOAMANIA IN EUROPE.
THIS IS THE BIRTH OF THE
CURSE, BY THE WAY.
IT WAS THOSE SORT OF PULP
FICTIONS OF THE MID-1800s
THAT INVENTED THE “CURSE OF
THE MUMMIES.”
THERE'S REALLY NO SUCH THING.
AND THEN GRADUALLY SCHOLARS,
MORE AND MORE TOOK CONTROL
IN EARLY DAYS PEOPLE JUST
PLUNDERING THEMSELVES, ALMOST.
SCHOLARS TOOK CONTROL.
THE EGYPTIANS ENTERED INTO
IT, ESTABLISHED AN
ANTIQUITIES SERVICE WHICH IS
IN FULL CONTROL TODAY, AND
TOMBS NOW ARE EXCAVATED AND
LOOKED FOR IN -- YOU KNOW,
YOU HAVE TO GET A LICENSE TO
LOOK IN A CERTAIN AREA.
YOU JUST DON'T GO AROUND DIGGING.
AND THERE ARE TOMBS TO FIND.
THERE'S LOTS FOR THE NEXT --
FOR YOU KIDS TO DO OUT THERE.
THERE'S LOTS TO DO.
THERE'S LOTS TO FIND.

MAUREEN says YOU JUST SAID
NEFERTITI'S NOT BEEN FOUND,
CLEOPATRA'S NEVER BEEN FOUND.

ROBERTA says CLEOPATRA'S
PROBABLY UNDER -- THE
SECTION OF ALEXANDRA WHERE
SHE LIVED HAS SUNK INTO THE SEA.
EVERYTHING IS PROBABLY THERE
AND IT'S --

MAUREEN says THAT'S GOING TO
BE TOUGH TO DO.

ROBERTA says VERY TOUGH.
BUT THEY'RE DOING A GOOD JOB.

MAUREEN says KATIE LYNN IN WHITBY.
HI KATIE LYNN!

KATIE LYNN says HI.
I'VE HEARD OF A BOOK CALLED
“THE ANCIENT BOOK OF THE
DEAD.”
COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT?

ROBERTA says SURE.
IT'S A SERIES OF SPELLS, ACTUALLY.
AND THE REASON IT'S CALLED
“THE BOOK OF THE DEAD” IS
BECAUSE THEY WERE SPELLS TO
ENABLE THE MUMMY -- REMEMBER
I WAS MENTIONING AN AMULET?
WELL, SOME OF THESE SPELLS
WERE READ OVER THE AMULETS,
BY THE WAY, THAT WERE PUT ON
THE MUMMY THAT WERE PUT IN
THE TOMB, AND ACTUALLY A
NUMBER OF SPELLS WOULD BE
WRITTEN ON PAPYRUS, WHICH IS
THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN FORM OF PAPER.
THEY WERE WRITTEN, AND
USUALLY IT'S THE SPELL
FOR GETTING THROUGH GATES,
IT'S A SPELL FOR PROTECTING
THIS AND A SPELL FOR GETTING
YOUR “HEART WEIGHED.”
EGYPTOLOGISTS CALL THEM
CHAPTERS, AND WE PUT NUMBERS
ON THEM SO THAT WE'LL KNOW
WHAT EACH OTHER IS TALKING
ABOUT, AND CHAPTER SIX IS
THE ONE ON THE SHAWAPTE, IT'S
THE ONE THAT IF I HAVE TO DO
WORK IN THE NEXT WORLD,
YOU'LL SAY “HERE I AM.”
THERE'S CHAPTER WHAT WE CALL
30B AND IT'S PUT ON A HEART
SCARAB PLACED ON THE HEART
AND THAT SAYS “OH, MY HEART.
WHEN I'M STANDING BEFORE THE
SCALE OF JUSTICE IN THE NEXT
LIFE TO ENTER INTO THE, TO
ENTER WITH THE GOD OSIRIS,
PLEASE DON'T ADMIT TO
ANYTHING WRONG THAT I'VE DONE.”
(LAUGHING)

MAUREEN says JUST LIE.

ROBERTA says NO NOT LIE,
JUST DON'T SAY ANYTHING.

MAUREEN says KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

ROBERTA says BUT THERE
ARE ALL KINDS OF THESE SPELLS.
I THINK TWO OR THREE HUNDRED
ARE KNOWN, AND THEY WOULD BE
ON PAPYRUS, ROLLED UP AND
PUT PERHAPS IN WITH THE
MUMMY OR THE COFFIN, AND
IT'S FUNNY, BECAUSE NOT EVERY
BOOK OF THE DEAD HAS THE
SAME SPELLS SO I THINK WHAT
PEOPLE DID, THEY EITHER
CHOSE THEIR OWN SPELLS
BEFORE THEY DIED --
FAVOURITE SPELLS, PASSAGE,
ONES THEY PERHAPS NEEDED FOR
CERTAIN ILLNESSES THAT THEY
HAD OR PERHAPS THE FAMILY
JUST SAID HERE, THIS IS
APPROPRIATE.
PUT THEM ON THIS PAPYRUS,
ROLL IT UP, PUT IT ON THE DEAD.
SO IT'S FOR GETTING THROUGH.
THERE ARE ALL KIND OF
OBSTACLES VERY OFTEN IN
GETTING THROUGH TO THE NEXT
LIFE, AND THESE SPELLS KIND
OF HELPED YOU THROUGH.

MAUREEN says SO THE BOOK OF
THE DEAD ISN'T ONE BOOK,
IT'S SORT OF LIKE A MASS
PRODUCED BIBLE TODAY.

ROBERTA says YEAH, ONLY
JUST TAKING CERTAIN CHAPTERS
FROM THAT BIBLE.
BUT IT WOULDN'T BE READ --
IT WAS FOR THE DEAD IT.
WASN'T FOR THE LIVING.
THERE WERE OTHER PRAYERS FOR
PEOPLE TO USE IN DAILY LIFE.

MAUREEN says AND WHERE WOULD
YOU FIND THE INSTRUCTIONS
FOR HOW TO EMBALM A CORPSE
OR MUMMIFY A BODY.
WEREN'T THOSE WRITTEN DOWN
SOMEWHERE TOO?

ROBERTA says NO, THOSE AREN'T WRITTEN DOWN.

MAUREEN says HOW DO WE KNOW THOUGH THEN?

ROBERTA says REALLY,
HERODOTUS, WHO'S LATE ON THE
SCENE, THE GREEK HISTORIAN
WHO WAS AROUND 400 B.C. WAS
INTO EGYPT, HE GIVES A
DESCRIPTION.
AND WE RELY A LOT ON THAT.
AND LITTLE SNIPPETS HERE AND
THERE, LITTLE VIGNETTES.
ON THE BOOK OF THE DEAD
SOMETIMES WE SEE, WE SEE A
MUMMY, A BLACK BODY SORT OF
LYING ON A BED, AND WE SEE A
PRIEST WITH A HORSE MASK, WE
SEE THE PICTURES OF THE
TOOLS THAT ARE USED, AND
SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS HAS
PRETTY WELL STATED THAT IT
IS NATRON SO, THERE ARE ALL
DIFFERENT WAYS ON HOW WE DO,
HOW THEY MUMMIFIED.
FOR MANY YEARS PEOPLE
THOUGHT, AND IT'S STILL
PRETTY MUCH A MOOT POINT
THAT THEY WERE SOAKED IN A
NATRON SOLUTION, BUT THE
SCIENTIST WHOSE HAVE PLAYED
AROUND WITH THESE TODAY
THINK THAT'S NOT ENOUGH.
IT HAS TO BE PURE SALT.
THE BODY HAS TO BE PACKED IN SALT.
TO BE EFFECTIVE ENOUGH.

MAUREEN says BECAUSE THEY
TRIED THIS ON RABBITS AND
DUCKS, I THINK.

ROBERTA says AND THERE
IS ONE GENTLEMAN WHO DONATED
HIS BODY TO AN EGYPTOLOGIST
AND IT WAS --

MAUREEN says MUMMIFIED.

ROBERTA says THEY
MUMMIFIED HIM AND IT WORKED.
IT WORKED ALRIGHT.

MAUREEN says YOU BROUGHT A
MYSTERY OBJECT ALONG.
SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T
KNOW WHAT IT IS.

Roberta holds a hinged bronze or brass object in her hand. It looks like a knife shaped like a shoe, with a long pointed handle.

ROBERTA says OKAY.
CAN WE SEE THAT?
AND IT IS, IT'S HINGED.
LOOK AT THIS, LOOK AT THIS
HINGE ON IT OKAY?
NOW, NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THIS
IS, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT IT'S
FOUND WITH COSMETIC
EQUIPMENT AND VERY OFTEN
IT'S FOUND IN WIG BOXES WITH
A WIG, OKAY?
SO WE KNOW IT'S GOT
SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE HAIR.
SO IT'S A HAIR -- PRETTY
WELL ALL EGYPTOLOGISTS AGREE
THAT THIS IS PROBABLY A
HAIRDRESSING TOOL, BUT THAT'S
ABOUT ALL ANYBODY KNOWS.
SO I HAVE MY OWN SUGGESTION
ON THIS, WHICH I OF COURSE
THINK IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

MAUREEN says AND...?

ROBERTA says DO YOU WANT
ME TO EXPLAIN IT?
BECAUSE I THINK -- IT WORKS.
IT WORKS.
I THINK THIS -- I THINK THIS
PORTION, AND ANYBODY WHO'S A
HAIRDRESSER OR KNOWS THE END
OF A RAT TAILED COMB OR A
PICK, I THINK THIS IS SIMPLY
PUT INTO THE HAIR TO JUST
ISOLATE THAT LOVELY LITTLE
BIT OF HAIR.
WE KNOW THAT THE ANCIENT
EGYPTIANS DID A LOT OF
LITTLE CORN ROWS, AND VERY OFTEN
VERY FINE CORN ROWS, OKAY?
AND NOW I THINK ANYBODY
WHO'S BRAIDED HAIR KNOWS
WHEN YOU COME TO THE END OF
THE BRAID IT'S UNEVEN.
YOU'VE GOT ONE LITTLE PIECE
OF HAIR THAT'S LONGER THAN
THE OTHER.
NOW THIS PORTION OF THIS
IMPLEMENT IS ALWAYS
SHARPENED LIKE A RAZOR, OKAY?
AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE SCISSORS.
THE EARLY EGYPTIANS HAD
NOT INVENTED SCISSORS.
THEY SHAVED OFF THE END OF
THAT CORN ROW TO MAKE IT
EVEN, OKAY?
AND HERE'S THE FUN PART.
HOW DO YOU FINISH OFF CORN ROWS?
AND I THINK MOST OF OUR
AFRICAN CANADIANS WHO ARE
WEARING CORN ROWS, AND THE
ONES THAT I'VE ASKED AT THE
ROM SAY OH, YOU BURN THEM.
YOU SIMPLY TAKE THE END OF
IT AND BURN THEM AND THAT
SINGES IT.
WELL EGYPTIANS DIDN'T HAVE MATCHES.
ALL THEY HAD WERE FIRE AND
OF COURSE HOT COALS, SO I
THINK WHAT THIS IS, SINCE
YOU CAN'T PICK UP A HOT COAL
OF COURSE IN YOUR FINGERS,
THIS IS SIMPLY HINGED TO
PICK UP YOUR HOT COAL AND
THEN YOU TAKE IT AND YOU
BURN YOUR CORN ROW, FINISH
IT OFF, YOU DROP THE HOT
COAL AND GO BACK TO --

MAUREEN says WHAT HAVE YOUR
COLLEAGUES SAID WHEN YOU'VE GIVEN
THEM THAT --

ROBERTA says THEY'RE NOT
CONVINCED.
(LAUGHING)
IT'S PURE SPECULATION AND I
DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL EVER KNOW.
IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS.

MAUREEN says HOW OLD DO YOU
THINK THAT IS?

ROBERTA says THIS IS A REPRODUCTION.
THAT'S WHY I'M PLAYING WITH
IT SO READILY.
ANYTHING MADE OF BRONZE --
THIS IS BRONZE IN THE REAL DEAL.
WE HAVE TO WEAR GLOVES TO
HANDLE, BECAUSE THERE'S
SOME -- BECAUSE THE OIL ON
OUR FINGERS EATS THE METAL.
WE'RE FINE WITH THIS
MATERIAL, ABSOLUTELY FINE.
SO WE HAD -- WE JUST HAD
THIS REPRODUCTION MADE AT
THE ROM SO WE COULD PLAY
WITH IT AND IN MY PLAYING
WITH THIS, THIS IS WHAT I
CAME UP WITH.

MAUREEN says YEAH, GOOD. OKAY.
DENOJA IS IN MISSISSAUGA. HI.

DENOJA says HI.

MAUREEN says WHAT'S YOUR
QUESTION?

DENOJA says I'D LIKE TO KNOW
HOW EGYPTIANS COULD HAVE
BUILT PYRAMIDS WITHOUT LIKE
USING HEAVY MACHINERY.

MAUREEN says LET ALONE A
WHEEL EVEN, RIGHT?

ROBERTA says THAT'S RIGHT.
WELL THERE'S ANOTHER GREAT
ARGUMENT AMONGST EGYPTOLOGISTS.
WELL, ACTUALLY WE DON'T ARGUE VERY MUCH.
WE JUST SORT OF -- WHOEVER
CAN COME UP WITH A NICE,
PRACTICAL IDEA, WE SAY GEE,
THAT WOULD WORK.

MAUREEN says IT'S POSSIBLE.

ROBERTA says IT'S POSSIBLE.
BUT WE CERTAINLY KNOW THEY
HAVE A RAMPING SYSTEM
BECAUSE THERE'S EVIDENCE OF
RAMPS IN ANCIENT EGYPTIAN BUILDING.
NOW WHETHER -- IT'S THOUGHT
THAT IT WAS PROBABLY A RAMP
THAT WRAPPED AROUND THE
PYRAMID SO THAT YOU KIND OF
HAULED THINGS UP AND AROUND.
BECAUSE IF IT WERE ONE LONG
RAMP, THE RAMP WOULD BE --
THE RAMP -- JUST TO KEEP
YOUR -- YOU CAN'T HAUL A
STONE UP A RAMP LIKE THAT (Gesturing a steep angle)
YOU HAVE TO KEEP A
REASONABLE ANGLE.
IT WOULD HAVE STRETCHED FOR
MILES AND MILES AND MILES
AND MILES AND MILES SO IT'S MUCH
MORE PRACTICAL TO WRAP IT AROUND.
THAT RAISES QUESTION OF HOW
YOU KEEP THE PYRAMID
ABSOLUTELY EVEN --

MAUREEN says IN THOSE DIMENSIONS, YEAH.

ROBERTA says EVEN
WITHOUT GETTING A LITTLE WONKY.
WE CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT. WE DO
KNOW THAT THEY MOVED HUGE
BLOCKS BECAUSE WE HAVE AN
ILLUSTRATION ON AN ANCIENT
EGYPTIAN TOMB OF MOVING A
HUGE STATUE, A LOT BIGGER
THAN A PYRAMID BLOCK, ON
SOME SORT OF FLAT SLEDGE.
A FLAT SLEDGE, NO WHEELS,
AND THERE ARE SCENES OF
PEOPLE POURING WATER IN
FRONT OF THE SLEDGE.
SO WHAT YOU'VE GOT IS A
HARD-PACKED -- THEIR ROADS
WERE SIMPLY HARDPACKED CLAY.
THEY DIDN'T PAVE.
HARD-PACKED CLAY.
PUT WATER ON IT AND IT'S
JUST LIKE SOAP.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHEN IT
RAINS, WHEN IT RAINS IN
EGYPT TODAY, SINCE THERE'S
ALWAYS A FINE COATING OF
DUST ON THE ROADS, IF IT
RAINS YOU'RE SKIDDING ALL OVER.
IT'S LIKE SOAP.

MAUREEN says SLIPPERY.

ROBERTA says VERY SLIPPERY.
SO THAT IT JUST SLID ALONG.
NOW GOING UP THE RAMP IS
ANOTHER STORY.
I MEAN, IF YOU WET IT TOO
MUCH IT WOULD WANT TO SLIDE
BACK, WOULDN'T IT?
BUT THESE ARE THINGS WE DON'T KNOW.
A RAMPING SYSTEM, CERTAINLY
MEN, LOTS OF MEN, PROBABLY
20 OR 30 MEN HAULING A BLOCK.
NOW THE BLOCKS GOT SMALLER.
THEY GOT SMALLER, THE HIGHER
UP, THE SMALLER THEY ARE, SO
THAT CERTAINLY SUGGESTS THAT
THEY HAD TO MAKE IT EASIER
FOR THE GUYS TO HAUL THOSE
BLOCKS UP.

MAUREEN says RIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT WE DO KNOW.

ROBERTA says YEAH.

MAUREEN says MOSTLY SLAVES
BUILDING THEM? IN THE BIBLE?

ROBERTA says IT'S WHAT
WE REFER TO AS CORVEE LABOUR.
IT'S NOT SLAVES.
THEY WERE ORDINARY CITIZENS
OF EGYPT, WORKING AWAY AT
THEIR FARMS SORT OF THING,
BUT THERE'S A PERIOD OF THE
YEAR IN EGYPT CALLED THE
INUNDATION, OKAY?
THAT'S WHEN THE NILE
OVERFLOWS, IT DOESN'T ANY
LONGER, BUT ONCE DID OVERFLOW
ITS BANKS, TO QUITE AN EXTENT.
FLOODED THE WHOLE LAND, ALL
THE ARABLE LAND.
THERE WAS NO FARMING TO DO --

MAUREEN says IT HAPPENED
EVERY YEAR, TOO.

ROBERTA says EVERY YEAR,
SO THE PHARAOH GATHERED ALL
THESE PEOPLE TOGETHER AND
SAID OKAY, NOW'S THE TIME
FOR A BUILDING PROJECT, GUYS.
YOU COME DOWN TO GIZA, BUILD
ME A PYRAMID AND I WILL FEED
YOU, WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID.
AND THEY'RE MAKING WONDERFUL
DISCOVERIES AT GIZA WHERE
THE THREE GREAT PYRAMIDS ARE.
AND THERE'S LOTS OF PYRAMIDS BY THE WAY, FOR
EXAMPLE, SOMETHING LIKE 70
OR 80 PYRAMIDS BUT THE THREE
BIG ONES ARE THE SPLENDID
ONES, AND THERE ARE BAKERIES
BEING FOUND WHERE
BAKERS WERE BAKING THE BREAD
TO FEED THE GUYS WHO WERE
BUILDING THE PYRAMIDS, AND
THERE ARE ALSO TOMBS OF
THOSE BUILDERS BEING FOUND
OFF ON THE SIDE AS WELL. SO --

MAUREEN says NOW WHAT DO YOU
HAVE OFF TO THE SIDE?
A BURGER KING OR SOMETHING PROBABLY.
IT'S A LITTLE -- PEOPLE SAY
AROUND THE SPHINX IT'S A
LITTLE TACKY.

ROBERTA says WHAT'S
HAPPENING IS THE CITY OF
CAIRO, JUST LIKE ALL CITIES
IN THE WORLD IS EXPANDING,
AND THE PYRAMIDS NOW ARE
PRETTY WELL IN THE SUBURBS
OF CAIRO AND THE SUBURBS ARE
STARTING TO SORT OF ENCIRCLE
RIGHT AROUND THE PYRAMID.
YOU STILL HAVE THE DESERT AT
THE EXTREME WESTERN END, BUT
I SHOULD THINK SOME DAY
PYRAMIDS ARE GOING TO BE A PARK.
A PARK IN CAIRO, YES.

MAUREEN says I MENTIONED THE BIBLE.
MEGAN IS INTERESTED TO NO
WHAT KIND OF EVIDENCE IF ANY
YOU'VE FOUND IN RELATION TO
THE BIBLICAL EVENT THAT TAKE
PLACE IN EGYPT, SUCH AS WHEN
THE JEWS FIRST ARRIVED AND
MOSES AND THE EXODUS OF THE
JEWS, HAVE YOU FOUND
HISTORICAL INFORMATION THAT
BACKS UP THESE BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS?

ROBERTA says NOT A LOT.
THE FIRST MENTION OF ISRAEL,
OKAY, IN EGYPTIAN RECORDS IS
THE SO-CALLED STELE OF MERENEPTAH.
THAT IS THE SON AND
SUCCESSOR TO RAMSES THE SECOND.
WE ALL KNOW HE IS MENTIONED
IN THE BIBLE AS THE PHARAOH
OF THE EXODUS.
BY THE TIME WE GET TO HIS
SUCCESSOR -- AND RAMSES
REIGNED FOR 65, 66 YEARS.
A LONG TIME.
BY THE TIME WE GET TO HIS
SON, OKAY, WE HAVE THE
MENTION OF ISRAEL SO, WE
KNOW THAT ISRAEL IS ESTABLISHED.
WE HAVE NO MENTION OF ISRAEL
OR JEWISH RELIGION OR
ANYTHING BEFORE THAT.
BUT DEFINITELY BY THE TIME
OF RAMSES THE SON WE HAVE ISRAEL.
THEY'RE ALSO DESIGNATED NOT
AS A COUNTRY -- THEY'RE
MENTIONED ALONG WITH A LOT
OF OTHER COUNTRIES IN A LIST
OF COUNTRY, MEASURED AS A
WANDERING PEOPLE.
WE KNOW ISRAELITES WERE
STILL WANDERING AT THE TIME
OF RAMSES' SUCCESSOR SO IT
CAN BE ASSUMED THAT RAMSES
PROBABLY WAS -- THAT THE
BIBLE IS RIGHT THERE.
RAMSES PROBABLY WAS THE
PHARAOH OF THE EXODUS.
HE NEVER MENTIONS A WORD OF IT.
WE HAVE A WORD SHOWING UP,
EVEN A COUPLE OF HUNDRED
YEARS BEFORE RAMSES, CALLED,
THEY ARE ITINERANT WORKERS,
ARE ESSENTIALLY AS WHAT THEY'RE
THOUGHT OF.
THEY COME INTO EGYPT TO
SORT OF DO HARD LABOUR WHEN
NOBODY ELSE IS DOING IT AND
THEY'RE CALLED “APIRU,” AND
THE REAL LINGUISTIC PEOPLE
THINK THAT IS PROBABLY AN
EARLY FORM OF HEBREW.

MAUREEN says OH.
WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER STORY
OF JOSEPH AND HIS SORT OF --

ROBERTA says NO.
ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE FOR
THAT WHATSOEVER.
IT'S SIMPLY -- IT'S A TALE
THAT THE EGYPTIANS DON'T
RELATE THEMSELVES IN THEIR
OWN LITERARY SOURCES,
ALTHOUGH CERTAINLY LOTS OF
LITERARY SOURCES HAVE BEEN LOST.
IT'S POSSIBLE.
HOWEVER THERE'S ONE ASPECT
OF THAT STORY WHICH IS
REALLY INTERESTING, AND ONE
ASPECT OF THAT STORY IS
JOSEPH AND POTEFAR'S WIFE?
THIS IS THE SCENE WHERE
POTEFAR, WHO HAS TAKEN
JOSEPH INTO HIS HOUSE, I
THINK, HIS WIFE TRIES TO
SEDUCE JOSEPH, AND JOSEPH
SAYS WAIT A MINUTE.
NO THANKS.

MAUREEN says BACK OFF.

ROBERTA says BUT GETS
BLAMED FOR IT ANYWAY?
THAT EXACT STORY IS EVIDENT
IN EGYPTIAN -- IT'S PART OF
AN EGYPTIAN SHORT STORY,
THE EXACT SAME SCENE EXISTS
IN THE EGYPTIAN SHORT STORY,
WHICH OUT OF THE MIDDLE
KINGDOM, WHICH IS AROUND 200
B.C., WHICH WOULD FIT IN
CHRONOLOGICALLY WITH THE
JOSEPH -- THERE'S ABOUT
ENOUGH TIME BETWEEN JOSEPH
AND MOSES FOR THAT.
SO IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING.

MAUREEN says DO YOU HAVE A
FAVOURITE HOLLYWOOD MOVIE
ABOUT EGYPT?

ROBERTA says AH! OH, GOD!
(LAUGHING)

MAUREEN says I MEAN, CLEOPATRA'S --

ROBERTA says I GUESS IT
HAS TO BE CLEOPATRA, JUST
BECAUSE OF ELIZABETH TAYLOR
AND HER POLYESTHER BUT “TEN
COMMANDMENTS” IS FUN.
IT'S REALLY FUN.
I LOVE THE OLD BRENNER
SANDALS, SLOPPING AROUND IN
THOSE SANDALS.

MAUREEN says ALL RIGHT, J.D.
IS IN OTTAWA.
HELLO J.D.!

J.D. says HI AND HAPPY NEW
YEAR'S TO THE BOTH OF YOU.

MAUREEN says TO YOU AS WELL.

ROBERTA says THANK YOU.

J.D. says I HAVE A QUESTION
ACTUALLY CONCERNING THE
KING'S CHAMBER.
THERE'S APPARENTLY A GIANT
GRANITE BOX INSIDE.
THERE HAVE BEEN THEORIES
SUGGESTED BY GRAHAM HANCOCK
AND --

ROBERTA says OH, YES.

J.D. says -- AND SO ON,
YEAH, I THINK YOU KNOW WHO
I'M TALKING ABOUT.

ROBERTA says RIGHT,
YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE ORION
THEORY?
OR IS THAT THE ONE?

J.D. says NOT ESPECIALLY.
IT'S JUST THAT THE CHAMBER
IS SAID TO BE ACTUALLY A
RESIGNATION CHAMBER.
AND THE INNER WALLS ARE
COARSE GRANITE BLOCKS?

ROBERTA says MM-HMM.

J.D. says CONVERTING THE
ENERGY FROM SUN TO
ELECTRICAL, AND I WAS
WONDERING WHAT YOUR STAND ON
THAT WAS.

ROBERTA says OKAY.
WELL, ALL EGYPTOLOGISTS HAVE
TO HAVE HARD EVIDENCE FOR
ANY KINDS OF THEORIES LIKE
THIS AND THE FUNNY THING IS,
IS ANYBODY PROPOSING THESE,
WHAT I WOULD CALL “FAR-OUT.”
THEORIES, IS NOT ABLE TO
COME UP WITH THE HARD EVIDENCE.
ANY TIME IT'S BEEN TRIED OUT
IT DOESN'T WORK.
WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE FROM
ANCIENT EGYPT THAT THERE WAS
ANYTHING LIKE ELECTRICITY.
I MEAN, IT'S -- I MEAN,
WE'RE CERTAIN THERE WASN'T.
WE KNOW THE HISTORY OF
ELECTRICITY.
WE'RE CERTAIN THERE WASN'T
ELECTRICITY.
THE TOMB CHAMBERS ARE IN
KEEPING WITH THE FUNERARY
PRACTICES OF THE KINGS OF
EGYPT, EVEN BEFORE THE GREAT PYRAMID.
CERTAINLY IT'S A BUILDING
MARVEL, BUT THERE ARE LOTS
OF PYRAMIDS, THEY ALL HAVE
TOMB CHAMBERS.
CERTAINLY -- I THINK THE
GREAT PYRAMID IS THE ONLY
ONE WITH THOSE SHAFTS.
WE KNOW THE SHAFTS DO LINE
UP TO CERTAIN STARS.
PART OF THE COSMIC
MYTHOLOGICAL BELIEF
SURROUNDING THE KINGSHIP
WHICH WAS CONSIDERED HOLY
AND SACRED.
BUT THESE THEORIES JUST --
THEY DON'T WASH.
NOBODY CAN PROVE THESE THEORIES.
THEY'RE IMAGINATIVE.
THEY'RE INTELLIGENT AND
IMAGINATIVE, BUT THEY
LEAVE -- BECAUSE THESE CHAPS
ARE GENERALLY NOT
EGYPTOLOGISTS, THEY'LL MAKE
BIG MISTAKES
SOMETIMES AND IT'S JUST
“SORRY, YOU'RE WRONG.”

MAUREEN says WHAT IS THE
KING'S CHAMBER?
WHAT DOES THAT REFER TO?

ROBERTA says WELL, IT'S
PROBABLY HIS BURIAL CHAMBER.
NOW IN THE GREAT PYRAMID
THERE ARE THREE CHAMBERS IN THERE.
AND WE -- NOW IN THE KING'S
CHAMBER, THERE'S THE
SARCOPHAGUS FOR KING KUFU,
HE'S NOT IN IT AND HIS
COFFIN IS IN IT BUT IT'S A
STONE HUGE GRANITE CHEST
INTO WHICH WAS PUT A COFFIN
AND THE MUMMY WOULD BE IN
THE COFFIN.
WE CAN ONLY ASSUME HE WAS
INDEED BURIED IN THAT CHAMBER.
WHAT WAS IN THE OTHER TWO
CHAMBERS, WE DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, SPECULATION IS THE
SUBTERRANEAN ONE REMAINS UNFINISHED.
MAYBE HE CHANGED HIS MIND.
THE OTHER WAS ONCE CALLED
THE QUEENS CHAMBER, BUT NO,
THE QUEENS WEREN'T BURIED IN THE
PYRAMIDS.
PROBABLY THE CANOPICS, THE
SECOND CHAMBER MIGHT HAVE
BEEN FOR HIS ENTRAILS.
BUT AGAIN, THESE WILD
THEORIES ARE IMAGINATIVE,
BUT THEY REALLY DON'T HOLD
WATER WITH EGYPTOLOGISTS.

MAUREEN says I WANT TO GIVE
OUR VIEWERS A CHANCE TO SEE
THE NECKLACES THAT YOU'VE
BROUGHT ALONG.
CAN YOU TELL US -- THESE ARE
NOT COPIES THAT WERE MADE,
THESE ARE THE REAL THING.

ROBERTA picks one up and says RIGHT. OKAY.
SO WE'VE GOT THIS ONE.

MAUREEN says WHAT IS THAT MADE OF?

A necklace has deep ruby red and milky white stones mounted on gold.

ROBERTA says OKAY, THIS
IS AMETHYST, OKAY?
AND IT'S FUNNY ABOUT THIS,
WHENEVER WE SEE ANYTHING
AMETHYST, IT'S AN EDUCATED
GUESS TO SAY IF WE CAN'T
DATE IT BY OTHER MEANS, AND
WE CAN'T DATE THIS ONE BY
OTHER MEANS, BY THE WAY,
THAT IT'S PROBABLY MIDDLE
KINGDOM, WHICH IS 2,000 B.C.
500 YEARS BEFORE KING TUT OR
700 YEARS BEFORE KING TUT,
SINCE IT'S MOSTLY AMETHYST, VERY
POPULAR AT THIS TIME, AND
THEREFORE WE CAN DATE THIS
TO THAT WE HAVE A SCARAB AND
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN
QUITE MAKE OUT THE SCARAB
BUT THAT IS A SCARAB.

MAUREEN says WHAT'S A SCARAB?

ROBERTA says HERE, LET
ME PUT THIS ONE UP.
IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO SPOT.
A SCARAB IS A BEETLE SO CALLED
SCARAB BEETLE, A WONDERFUL
LITTLE BEETLE, I THINK A LOT
OF PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THESE.
YOU CAN STILL BUY SCARAB
JEWELLERY TODAY.
PERFORATED FOR A THREAD, OFTEN WORN AS A RING
I THINK AND INSCRIBED ON THE BOTTOM.
THIS HAS JUST GOT A LITTLE
DESIGN ON IT, AND THEY WERE
USED ESSENTIALLY AS GOOD
LUCK CHARMS, OKAY?
AGAIN, THEY'RE FOUND ON
MUMMIES OR THEY'RE FOUND IN
LIFE BECAUSE THEY ARE
REGENERATIVE.
THEY REPRESENT THE SUNRISE
IN A LOT OF INSTANCES, SO
IT'S A NEW BEGINNING, OKAY?
AND OF COURSE THEY'RE ALSO
USED TO SEAL.
SO IT WOULD SWIVEL ON A RING,
PUT YOUR WIRE THROUGH, PUT
IT ON YOUR FINGER, SWIVEL IT
AND THEN WHEN YOU SEAL SOMETHING --

MAUREEN says YOU USE THE RING.

ROBERTA says YOU PUT
YOUR STAMP ON AND THAT'S THE SEAL.
THIS PARTICULAR SCARAB ON
THIS NECKLACE, AND WE WON'T
TRY TO GET THIS HERE BUT
THERE'S A BEAUTIFUL LITTLE
GODDESS INSCRIBED ON THIS ONE,
MAUREEN THAT IS THE GODDESS
OF CHILDBIRTH SO WHAT I
WOULD LIKE TO THINK ABOUT THIS IS
THAT - THIS MIGHT BE MY
ROMANTIC NATURE COMING
THROUGH - BUT I THINK THIS
WAS A PRESENT TO A WOMAN --

MAUREEN says WHO WAS HAVING A BABY.

ROBERTA says WHO WAS
HAVING A BABY.
HER HUSBAND OR PARENTS --
AND THIS GODDESS IS THE
PROTECTOR, THE CHILDBIRTH
PROTECTOR GODDESS.

MAUREEN says WERE THESE
NECKLACES FOUND ALREADY
STRUNG OR LITTLE BEADS
SCATTERED AND YOU STRUNG
THEM UP?

ROBERTA says IN EGYPTOLOGICAL COLLECTIONS
THROUGHOUT THE WORLD WHAT WE
HAVE IS EXAMPLES LIKE I'VE
GOT HERE THAT HAVE BEEN RESTRUNG.
SOMETIMES IN THE RIGHT
MANNER, SOMETIMES NOT.
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE,
CARNELIAN, VERY POPULAR IN
NEW KINGDOM, KING TUT'S TIME
BY THE WAY.
AGAIN A STONE NATIVE TO EGYPT.
SO THEY'RE RESTRUNG IN EGYPT
BY DEALERS, ESPECIALLY EARLY
IN THE 20th CENTURY WHEN
PEOPLE - REALLY THE
TOURISTS - WERE BUYING THESE THINGS.
OR IF WE CAN FIND THEM IN
JEWELLERY BOXES IN TOMBS OR ON
MUMMIES THEN WE KNOW HOW
THEY'RE STRUNG.
SO WHENEVER WE RESTRING
THEM, WE USE EXAMPLES OF --

MAUREEN says TO COPY.

ROBERTA says TO COPY.
AND THERE'S A BEAUTIFUL WHAT
WE CALL A “BROAD COLLAR” IN
OUR JEWELLERY COLLECTION AT
THE ROM, EGYPTIAN GALLERY
AND IT'S A HUGE COLLAR OF
BEADS.

MAUREEN says OH, I'VE SEEN
THAT YES.

ROBERTA says THAT WAS
RESTRUNG AND WE USED AN
EXAMPLE FROM THE
METROPOLITAN MUSEUM IN NEW
YORK TO DO IT.

MAUREEN says WOW!
WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF
MINUTES.
LET'S TRY TO GET ASHLEY'S
QUESTION IN.
HI ASHLEY.

ASHLEY says HI.
HOW DO YOU MAKE -- HOW DID
THE EGYPTIANS MAKE THEIR
SANDALS?

ROBERTA says HOW DID
THEY MAKE THEIR SANDALS?
WELL THAT'S A NICE PRACTICAL QUESTION.
THEY MADE THEM IN MANY WAYS.
NOW THE VERY BEST ONES, OF
COURSE, YOU CAN SEE EXAMPLES
IN KING TUT'S TOMB ARE MADE
OUT OF TOOLED LEATHER EMBOSSED
WITH GOLD AND PAINTED
AND THEY'RE JUST ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS.
BUT PEOPLE LIKE, WELL, ME
AND PERHAPS YOU, ASHLEY,
MIGHT HAVE EVEN WOVEN OUR
OWN, BECAUSE MANY SANDALS IN
ANCIENT EGYPT ARE SIMPLY
MADE OUT OF WOVEN REEDS OR
RUSHES OR SOMETHING LIKE PAPYRUS.
IT WAS USED TO MAKE SANDALS
AND I WOULD THINK AS YOU
WERE LEARNING AS A LITTLE
GIRL TO MAKE BASKETS, YOU
WOULD ALSO PROBABLY LEARN TO
MAKE SANDALS, AND I WOULD
THINK WHOEVER WAS DOING
BASKETS WOULD DO SANDALS.
THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DONE IN
YOUR HOUSE BY YOUR MOM OR
SELF OR YOU MIGHT HAVE GONE TO
MARKET TO BUY THEM AND
TRADED -- IF YOU WERE A
PARTICULARLY GOOD
BASKET-MAKER YOU MIGHT HAVE
WANTED TO DO SOME FINE LINEN,
FINE WEAVING AND THEN GO TRADE WITH
YOUR NEIGHBOUR.

MAUREEN says AND IF THEY WERE
MADE OUT OF LEATHER THE
LEATHER CAME FROM COWS?

ROBERTA says THE LEATHER
CAME FROM ANIMALS.
THEY CERTAINLY HAD CATTLE,
SHEEP, GOATS, AND THEY WENT
OUT INTO THE DESERT AND
HUNTED GAZELLES, SO THEY
COULD HAVE BEEN FROM ANY OF
THOSE LEATHERS.
AND THERE'S A BEAUTIFUL PINK
PAIR, A LADY'S PINK PAIR IN
THE BRITISH MUSEUM WHICH I
THINK IS PROBABLY -- GAZELLE
IS VERY FINE LEATHER, AND
THEY'RE BEAUTIFULLY DONE.
SOMETIMES THEY'RE VERY
PLAIN AND THEY'RE JUST
THONG SANDALS.
JUST A THONG THROUGH THE TOE AND
THEN A PIECE OF STRAP OVER
THE INSTEP AND THAT'S ALL
THEY WERE.
THEY WERE ALL MORE OR LESS
THE SAME.
SOME FANCY ONES CURLED UP
AROUND THE TOE.

MAUREEN says AND THEY NEVER
NEEDED ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT?
A BOOT OR ANYTHING FOR WHEN
THE WEATHER GOT --

ROBERTA says THERE ARE
SOME EXAMPLES OF BOOTS, KIND
OF A SOCK/BOOT AFFAIR IN
KING TUT'S ACCOUTREMENTS BUT
IT IS FELT THAT THOSE WERE
PROBABLY JUST NEEDED FOR
RIDING, FOR HIS CHARIOT.
A LITTLE ROUGH ON THE FEET
OR GAVE A GRIP.
PEOPLE GENERALLY WENT BAREFOOT.
WE SEE ALL KINDS -- IT'S BAREFOOT.

MAUREEN says WELL THIS IS GREAT.
AND I HOPE A LOT OF PEOPLE
GET OUT TO THE ROM TO SEE
YOUR COLLECTION WHICH IS WONDERFUL.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
DOING THIS.

ROBERTA says YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.

MAUREEN says ROBERTA SHAW IS
AN EGYPTOLOGIST AT THE ROYAL
ONTARIO MUSEUM IN TORONTO.
YOU CAN REACH THE ROM BY
PHONE AT AREA CODE 416, 586-5549
OR VISIT THEIR WEBSITE - WWW.ROM.ON.CA.

A slate appears with the website address. Maureen reads off it.

MAUREEN says AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM ON EGYPTOLOGY. THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING. I'M MAUREEN TAYLOR HOPING YOU'LL TUNE IN TO “MORE TO LIFE” MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY ON TVO AT ONE O'CLOCK.

Watch: Egyptology