Transcript: Landlord/Tenant, Remembrance Day, Movies | Nov 10, 2000

The title “More to money” appears inside the shape of a house.

The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle as several words fly by: Investments, careers, finances, pensions and money.

Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.

In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: “More to life.”

Then, Maureen Taylor appears in a studio with yellow walls and a small TV set in the background, which reads “More to life.”

Maureen is in her late thirties, with wavy auburn hair in a bob. She's wearing a light gray blazer with a red flower on the lapel.

She says HELLO, I'M
MAUREEN TAYLOR.
AND WELCOME TO “MORE TO
LIFE.”
TOMORROW IS REMEMBRANCE DAY,
AND TODAY ON THE PROGRAMME
WE'LL HAVE OUR OWN SPECIAL
SALUTE TO WAR VETS ACROSS
ONTARIO, AND THOM ERNST WILL
BE HERE WITH A FEW WAR MOVIE
PICKS.
BUT FIRST, THE LANDLORD AND
TENANT RANGGLE.
IT RANGES FROM PETTY
DIFFERENCES TO SCREAMING
SCENES.
BUT THERE ARE LAWS THAT
GOVERN THE RELATIONSHIP AND
THIS AFTERNOON WE'LL TELL
YOU HOW THEY APPLY TO YOU.
MY GUESTS THIS AFTERNOON ARE
ELINOR MAHONEY, A COMMUNITY
LEGAL WORKER AT PARKDALE
LEGAL SERVICES AND LAWYER
JANE FERGUSON, WHO
SPECIALIZES IN
LANDLORD AND TENANT ISSUES.
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, A
PROBLEM WITH YOUR LANDLORD
OR A PROBLEM WITH YOUR TENANTS, GIVE US A CALL.

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
Then, it changes to "moretolife@tvo.org"

Elinor and Jane sit next to Maureen on two red armchairs.
Jane is in her late thirties, with long blond hair. She’s wearing a brown leather jacket with a red flower on the lapel over a black sweater.
Elinor is in her forties, with short gray hair. She’s wearing a colourful vest with a red flower on the lapel, over a white shirt.

Maureen says ELINOR AND JANE,
WELCOME BACK.
HI.

Jane says HI.

Elinor says THANKS
FOR HAVING US.

Maureen says ONE OF THE
THINGS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
LAST TIME, ELINOR YOU WERE
MENTIONING THE INCREASING
NUMBER OF EVICTIONS THROUGH
THE ONTARIO HOUSING RENTAL
TRIBUNAL.
CAN YOU TELL US IF
ANYTHING'S CHANGED SINCE TSN IN.

The caption changes to "Elinor Mahoney. Tenant’s Advocate."

Elinor says YES, THE
NUMBERS ARE UP EVEN HIGHER.
PEOPLE ARE BEING EVICTED
MORE FREQUENTLY THAN UNDER
THE PREVIOUS LEGISLATION,
AND AS THE TRIBUNAL
GAINS ITS GROUND AND ITS
FOOTING, EVICTIONS, THE RATE
OF EVICTIONS UNDER THE tribunal ARE INCREASING.
AND ONE OF THE ISSUES FOR
TENANTS IS THAT THEY DON'T
UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS THE
GOVERNMENT IS PUTTING INTO
PLACE.
TENANTS GET A NOTICE OF
HEARING SAYING THAT IF THEY
WANT TO HAVE A HEARING IT
WILL BE ON SUCH AND SUCH A
DATE.
BURIED IN THE SMALL PRINT IS
A NOTICE THAT THERE WILL BE
(LAUGHING)
NOT BE A HEARING UNLESS THEY
FILE A WRITTEN DISPUTE WITH
THE TRIBUNAL WITHIN
FIVE DAYS OF RECEIVING THE
NOTICE.

Maureen says OF RECEIVING THIS.

Elinor says SO YOU
GET A NOTICE OF HEARING FOR
A HEARING THAT WON'T TAKE
PLACE UNLESS YOU DO
SOMETHING ELSE.
THIS IS A NEW WRINKLE IN
LANDLORD AND TENANT LAW.
THERE'S BEEN A STUDY DONE BY
CIRA, WHICH IS THE CENTRE
FOR EQUALITY RIGHTS AND
ACCOMMODATION IN ONTARIO.
THEY ANALYZED ALL OF THE
EVICTION APPLICATIONS FOR
TORONTO OVER A PERIOD OF
TIME, DISCOVERED THAT 39 percent OF
THE PEOPLE EITHER HADN'T
RECEIVED THE NOTICES THEY
WERE SUPPOSED TO RECEIVE OR
DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE
PROCESS AND HOW TO ENSURE
THAT THEY HAD A HEARING IN
ORDER TO DEFEND THEMSELVES
AGAINST AN APPLICATION.
SO I THINK THIS IS A MATTER
OF CONCERN, SHOULD BE A
MATTER OF CONCERN TO THE
GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE WE'D
HATE TO SEE PEOPLE EVICTED
INAPPROPRIATELY, AND IT MUST
BE EXTREMELY COSTLY THEN FOR
THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE TO IN
SOME CASES, THE TENANTS ARE
ABLE TO GET A SECOND CHANCE
AND IN OTHER CASES THEY
AREN'T.
EITHER WAY, THERE'S A HIGH
COST.

Maureen says NOW JANE, THE
IDEA THAT YOU GET THIS
NOTICE BUT YOU HAVE TO THEN
DO SOMETHING BEFORE THERE'S
A HEARING, I ASSUME THAT'S
BECAUSE SOME TENANTS WON'T
DISPUTE IT THEY'LL JUST MOVE
AND THEN THERE'S NO REASON
FOR THE HEARING?

The caption changes to "Jane Ferguson. Lawyer."

Jane says YES, OR
SOME TENANTS ACKNOWLEDGE
THAT -- IF IT'S THE
LANDLORD'S APPLICATION THAT
THEY OWE THEM MONEY AND THEY
INTEND TO PAY IT SO IF THEY
PAY IT BY A CERTAIN DATE
THEY VOID THE ORDER AND
THEY'RE ENTITLED TO STAY AND
A GREAT MAJORITY OF
EVICTIONS ARE FOR
NON-PAYMENT OF RENT ABOUT.
BUT WHEN THE HEARING NOTICE
FIRST CAME OUT -- THIS
SYSTEM'S BEEN IN PLACE NOW
FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS, AND
THE NOTICE OF HEARING HAS
ALREADY BEEN AMENDED SO THAT
IT'S NOW IN BOLD TYPE ON THE
NOTICE OF HEARING TELLING
TENANTS THAT IF YOU DON'T
DISPUTE THE APPLICATION
WITHIN FIVE DAYS, THERE MAY
BE AN ORDER MADE AGAINST YOU
WITHOUT ANY FURTHER ADO AND
WITHOUT ANY FURTHER NOTICE
TO YOU.
SO THEY HAVE ALREADY AMENDED
THE NOTICE, AND APART FROM
PEOPLE WHO CAN'T READ OR ARE
ILLITERATE OR CAN'T READ
ENGLISH, IT TO ME IS PRETTY
CLEAR --

Maureen says WHAT ABOUT THOSE
PEOPLE THOUGH?
SOMETIMES LEGAL HE'S IS
DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND --

Jane says WELL THIS
FORM IS WRITTEN IN PRETTY
SIMPLE ENGLISH IN BOLD PRINT
IN MY OPINION.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE MANY
IMMIGRANTS IN THIS COUNTRY
WHO DON'T HAVE A GREAT
COMMAND OF THE ENGLISH
LANGUAGE BUT IT'S VERY CLEAR
FROM THE DOCUMENTS THAT
THESE ARE LEGAL DOCUMENTS
AND IT SHOULD, I WOULD THINK,
INSPIRE A LITTLE BIT OF FEAR
INTO THE HEARTS OF WHOSEVER
RECEIVING THEM TO SAY GEEZ,
IF I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS,
I BETTER TAKE THEM TO
SOMEONE WHO CAN.

Elinor says BUT THEY
THINK THEY UNDERSTAND, SO
THEY SAY AH-HA, THERE'S A
HEARING, IT'S ON SCOMPUCH
SUCH A DATE, I'LL GO AND GET
SOMEONE TO COME WITH ME TO
THE HEARING.
I THINK THESE NOTICES ARE
ABOUT AS HARD TO UNDERSTAND
AS THE PRESIDENTIAL BALLOT
IN FLORIDA.
AND WE ALL KNOW THE
IMPORTANCE OF UNDERSTANDING
A PROCESS BEFORE YOU ENTER
INTO IT.
WE'VE ASKED THE GOVERNMENT
TO LOOK AT THE FORM AGAIN.
THEY'VE STALLED SINCE
FEBRUARY.
THEY NOW TELL US THEY'VE
HIRED A CONSULTANT.
WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE
CONSULTANT.
THREE MONTHS HAVE GONE BY
SINCE THEN, AND IN THE
MEANTIME, WE AREN'T SURE
THAT THE TENANTS WHO
DISCOVERED THEIR MISTAKE TOO
LATE ARE GETTING A FAIR
OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE CASE
HEARD.
NOW AS JANE SAID, IN MANY
INSTANCES, PEOPLE EITHER
ADMIT THEY OW THE AREARS AND
PAY-UP OR THEY DECIDE TO
MOVE AND WE'RE NOT CONCERNED
ABOUT THOSE CASES.
WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE
CASE WHERE PERHAPS THE
LANDLORD HAS CLAIMED TOO
MUCH AREARS OF RENT OR
WEATHER THERE'S A DISPUTE
OVER SOME OTHER BEHAVIOUR OR
ATTITUDE OF THE TENANT,
WHERE THEY MIGHT HAVE A
CHANCE TO HAVE A HEARING,
SAY NO, YOU CAN STAY IN YOUR
PLACE OR YES, YOU HAVE TO
PAY AREARS OF RENT BUT NOT
THE AMOUNT THE LANDLORD
CHAIPED.
I THINK IT'S IN EVERYONE'S
INTERESTS FOR THE PROCESS TO
BE TRANSPARENT ENOUGH THAT
IT CAN, IT CAN BE
EXPEDITIOUS BUT ALSO FAIR TO
THE TENANTS.

Maureen says OKAY.
NOW LET'S MOVE INTO ANOTHER
AREA, AND THIS HAS TO DO
WITH PAYING RENT.
WE'VE TALKED IN THE PAST
ABOUT WHO GETS TO DETERMINE
WHETHER A TENANT IS GOING TO
BE ABLE TO AFFORD THE RENT
YOU'RE CHARGING HIM OR HER?
AND SOME OF THESE HAVE GONE
TO THE ONTARIO HUMAN RIGHTS
TRIBUNAL.
JANE, DO YOU WANT TO TALK
ABOUT THE CRITERIA LANDLORDS
ARE ALLOWED TO USE?

Jane says WELL THERE WAS A
HUGE HUMAN RIGHTS CASE A FEW
YEARS BACK THAT WENT ON FOR
MONTHS AND MONTHS AND
MONTHS.
TESTIMONY WAS GIVEN BY
EVERYONE POSSIBLY INVOLVED
IN THE INDUSTRY, AND THE
HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD CAME DOWN
WITH A DECISION WHICH CAME
AFTER THE CHANGE OF THE
LEGISLATION.
SO THE HUMAN RIGHTS CASE WAS
DONE PURSUIT TO THE LANDLORD
AND TENANT ACT AND THEN WE
HAD A CHANGE OF THE
LEGISLATION AND THEN WE HAD
THE DECISION.
SO I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE
BIT OF CONFUSION AS TO
WHETHER OR NOT THAT DECISION
APPLIES GIVEN THE CHANGE OF
LEGISLATION.
BUT BASICALLY THE ACT TELLS
US THAT LANDLORDS CAN DO
CREDIT CHECKS, THEY CAN USE
SPIN COME CRITERIA WHEN
SELECTING TENANTS.
THE TENANT PROTECTION ACT
MADE IT VERY CLEAR LANDLORDS
AREN'T PREVENT FROM DOING
THAT.
SO THEN IT'S A MATTER OF HOW
THEY GO ABOUT DOING THAT.
THEY ARE OF COURSE BOUND BY
THE PROGRESSIVES OF THE
HUMAN RIGHTS CODE, THAT YOU
CAN'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST
PEOPLE BECAUSE OF FAMILY
COMPOSITION, BECAUSE THEY'RE
IN RECEIPT OF SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE AND SO ON.
AND THOSE THINGS HAVEN'T
CHANGED AT ALL SO IF SOMEONE
WHO WAS ON SOCIAL ASSISTANCE
WITH SAY A SINGLE MOM WITH A
CHILD APPLIES, THEY CAN'T BE
TURNED DOWN BECAUSE THEY'RE
A SINGLE MOM ON SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE WITH ONE CHILD.

Maureen says NO, BUT
CERTAINLY IF THE RENT WAS
EQUAL TO HER ENTIRE WELFARE
CHEQUE FOR THE MONTH YOU
COULD TURN HER DOWN BECAUSE
YOU'D SAY IF YOU MOVE IN
HERE THERE'S NO WAY YOU'LL
BE ABLE TO EAT.

Elinor says WELL WHAT
HAPPENED THAT MADE THE CASE
COME TO THE FORE IS THAT
SOME LANDLORDS HAD A RULE OF
THUMB THAT WAS PRETTY RIGID.
THEY SAID THAT THE RENT
COULD NOT BE ANY HIGHER THAN
SAY 25 OR 30 percent --

Maureen says OF YOUR INCOME.

Elinor says--THE
TENANT'S INCOME AND THIS
EFFECTIVELY EXCLUDED
EVERYBODY WHO WAS ON SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE.
AND THERE WERE CASES WHERE
PEOPLE ON SOCIAL ASSISTANCE
WHO WANTED TO MOVE INTO
THESE BUILDINGS WERE PAYING
MORE RENT THAN WHAT THESE
LANDLORDS WANTING, PAGE SO
SUCCESSFULLY BUT THEY WANTED
TO MOVE INTO A BUILDING
WHERE THE RENTS WERE
CHEAPER.
THESE LANDLORDS WERE
EXCLUDING THEM ARBITRARILY
BECAUSE OF THE PERCENTAGE
RULE THAT THEY HAD AND
WHETHER WHAT THE TRIBUNAL
FOUND -- SORRY, THE HUMAN
RIGHTS TRIBUNAL --

Jane says THE CASE I
WAS MENTIONING.

Maureen says YEAH.

Elinor says WHAT THE
TRIBUNAL FOUND WAS THERE WAS
A LOT OF EVIDENCE TO SHOW
THAT TENANTS BASICALLY
UNDERSTAND THEY NEED TO PAY
THEIR RENT.
AND THE FACT THIS THEY MIGHT
HAVE A LOWER INCOME DID NOT
MEAN THEY WERE LESS RELIABLE
IN PAYING THEIR RENT, AND
THEREFORE AN ARBITRARY
AMOUNT, AN ARBITRARY
CRITERIA WOULD BE
DISCRIMINATORY UNDER THE
HUMAN RIGHTS CODE.
NOW WHAT JANE IS TALKING
ABOUT, THE EXTENSION OF THAT
IS THAT WHILE THEY WERE
TAKING SIX, SEVEN YEARS TO
MAKE THAT DECISION, THE
CONSERVATIVES CAME ALONG AND
CHANGED THE LAW --

Maureen says AND CHANGED THIS.

Elinor says AND NOW
THERE'S THE ISSUE OF WELL,
THEY CAN LOOK AT INCOME
CRITERIA IF IT'S NOT SORT OF
AN ARBITRARY, SOUL
DISTINCTION.
NOW HOW YOU PREVENT A
LANDLORD FROM MAKING IT THE
SOUL DISTINCTION AND HOW YOU
HAVE PROOF THAT HE LOOKED AT
OTHER FACTORS IS A LITTLE
BIT DIFFICULT.
AND I IMAGINE WE'LL PROBABLY
SEE SOME MORE CASES.

Maureen says WE'VE GOT LOTS
OF PEOPLE LINED UP TO TALK
TO YOU.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LANDLORD
AND TENANT ISSUES THIS
AFTERNOON WITH ELINOR
MAHONEY AND JANE FERGUSON.
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, GIVE
US A CALL.

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Maureen says AND LET'S GO TO
LINDA IN TORONTO.
HI.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI.

The Caller says I'M A TENANT
CURRENTLY OWNED BY A TORONTO
HOUSING COMPANY, AND I HAVE
APPLIED FOR AND WAS GRANTED
A SUBSIDY.
MY INCOME HASN'T INCREASED,
AND I'M ALONE WITH A CHILD,
LIVING ON A VERY LIMITED
INCOME NOW.
AND THEY JUST -- I JUST
RECEIVED A LETTER NOVEMBER
7th, IT WAS DATED OCTOBER
30th FROM THE LANDLORD'S
OFFICE STATING THAT THEY'RE
INCREASING MY RENT.
IT'S GONE UP 98 percent.
AND MY INCOME HASN'T CHANGED
AND THEIR FORM LETTER STATES
“LANDLORD MUST GIVE 90 DAYS
NOTICE FOR AN INCREASE OF
RENT.”

Maureen says ELINOR WHAT DO
YOU THINK?

Elinor says WELL MY
FIRST REACTION IS GET
YOURSELF TO A LEGAL CLINIC
AS SOON AS YOU CAN, BECAUSE
A LEGAL CLINIC CAN HELP YOU
SORT OUT WITH THE MANAGEMENT
WHY YOU'VE RECEIVED THIS
NOTICE AND WHAT YOUR OPTIONS
ARE.

Maureen says OKAY?
BUT DOES THAT SOUND --

Jane says I SUSPECT
IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO
WITH HER SUBSIDIES.
THE AMOUNT OF RENT ON THE
RENT INCREASE MAY BE 100 percent OF
THE RENT BUT SHE'S ONLY
PAYING A PORTION OF THAT
BECAUSE THE SUBSIDY IS
COVERING THE REST SO SHE MAY
BE PANICKING ABOUT SOMETHING
THAT SHE DOESN'T ACTUALLY
HAVE TO PAY BUT I'M NOT SURE
HOW HER PARTICULAR SUBSIDY
WORKS BUT ELINOR'S RIGHT.
SHE NEEDS TO GO AND GET
LEGAL ADVICE.

Maureen says OKAY.

Elinor says IT'S
TYPICAL THAT HERE WE HAVE A
GOVERNMENT, TORONTO HOUSING
AUTHORITY, AND THEIR NOTICES
CAN'T BE UNDERSTOOD BY THE
TENANT WHOSE HAVE TO ACT ON
THEM WITHOUT GOING TO A
LEGAL CLINIC AND THIS IS
PART OF A PROBLEM THAT
TENANTS HAVE.
IS THAT THERE ARE ASSUMPTION
SUMGSS THAT THEY ALREADY
KNOW THE LANDLORD AND TENANT
LAW AND ALL THEY NEED TO DO
IS GET A QUICK REMINDER BY
NOTICE.
BUT IN FACT MOST PEOPLE HAVE
NEVER BEEN IN TROUBLE AS
TENANTS.
THEY HAVE NO REASON TO KNOW
THE LAW ANYMORE THAN WE
WOULD KNOW ALL THE DETAILS
OF THE CRIMINAL CODE.

Jane says I'VE GOT
TO TAKE EXCEPTION TO THAT
BECAUSE SHE'S COMPLAINING
ABOUT HOW HIGHLY REGULATED
THIS INDUSTRY IS, AND IN MY
RESPECTFUL VIEW, ONE OF THE
MAIN REASONS IT'S SO HIGHLY
REGULATED AND WE HAVE TO USE
CERTAIN FORMS AND CERTAIN
PROCEDURES IS BECAUSE TENANT
ADVOCATES OVER THE YEARS
HAVE DEMANDED THAT.

Maureen says SURELY THIS IS
AN ISSUE ABOUT
UNDERSTANDABLE LANGUAGE, AND
I'M THE DAUGHTER OF A LAWYER,
SO, YOU KNOW, I --

Jane says BUT IT
SETS THE FORMS PURSUANT TO
THE LEGISLATION AND WE WERE
ALL THERE, AND WE WERE ALL
DEBATED --

Maureen says YOU WERE ALL
CONSULTED.

Jane says WE WERE
ALL CONSULTED.

Elinor says YEAH, WE
WERE.
WE WERE CONSULTED AND WE
SUBMITTED ABOUT A 50 PAGE
BRIEF OF HOW TO MAKE THE
FORMS SIMPLER, BUT THEY
DIDN'T FOLLOW OUR
SUGGESTIONS.

Jane says THESE ARE
THE SIMPLEST FORMS WE'VE
EVER HAD.

Maureen says I WONDER IF
THAT'S SAYING A LOT.
(LAUGHING)
WELL.

LINDA says SHOULD HAVE BEEN
CONSULTED ON THAT.
GET THEE TO A
LEGAL CLINIC.
DOOR FLEEN OAKVILLE.

The Caller says YES, I NEED SOME
ADVICE REGARDING A STUDENT
TENANTS.
I HAVE HOUSE I RENT OUT TO
STUDENTS AND ON ONE LEVEL
THERE ARE TWO STUDENTS
SHARING TWO BEDROOMS, LIVING
ROOM, KITCHEN, BATHROOM.
THESE TWO STUDENTS ARE NOT
GETTING ALONG.
THEY WERE GOING TO GO TO A
HOUSING MEDIATOR, WHICH I
ARRANGED WITH THE COLLEGE
THAT THEY WERE GOING TO AND
NOW THE GIRL HAS BACKED OUT
AND SAYS THAT SHE'S GOING
ASSIGN HER ROOM, WHICH
UNDERSTAND FROM THE MEDIATOR
IS THAT SHE'S GOING TO FIND
SOMEONE TO TAKE IT OVER.
WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS I DO
NEED TO TAKE OUT A NEW LEASE
WITH WHO EVER SHE FINDS?
OR IS IT LIKE A SUB LET
WHERE SHE IS STILL
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LEASE
AND WHO EVER MOVES IN WOULD
BE RESPONSIBLE TO HER?

Maureen says JANE, DO YOU
WANT TO TAKE THAT?

Jane says I CAN RESPOND TO
DOREEN.
IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS TENANT
IS GOING TO LEAVE YOUR
PREMISES AND NEVER COME BACK
IS THAT RIGHT?

The Caller says I BELIEVE SO, YES.

Jane says SHE'S NOT INTENDING TO
COME BACK FOR NEXT YEAR OR
ANYTHING LIKE IT?

The Caller says WELL, I DON'T
THINK SO WELL THE BOY SHE
SHARES THE APARTMENT WITH
WOULDN'T BE THERE NEXT YEAR
BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S
ANY CHANCE OF HER --

Jane says HER COMING BACK.
SO THEN IT'S AN ASSIGNMENT.
AND YOU CAN -- IT SOUNDS
LIKE YOU'RE WILLING TO
CONSENT TO THE ASSIGNMENT.
WHAT THE TENANT HAS TO DO IS
PROVIDE YOU WITH THE NAME
AND SOME INFORMATION ON THAT
PERSON AND IT'S UP TO YOU TO
REVIEW THAT AND DECIDE IF
THAT'S AN ACCEPTABLE TENANT
TO YOU, AND THEN YOU CAN
CONSENT TO THE ASSIGNMENT.
IF YOU DO CONSENT TO THE
ASSIGNMENT, THE NEW TENANT
TAKES OVER THIS TENANT'S
SPOT, JUST IS PLUGGED INTO
THE SAME LEASE, IS PLUGGED
INTO THE SAME ARRANGEMENT
YOU HAD WITH THE OLD TENANT
AND THE OLD TENANT BEARS NO
FURTHER RESPONSIBILITY AFTER
THE DATE SHE VACATES.
IF IT WAS A SUBLET AND SHE
WAS PLANNING TO COME BACK AT
A LATER DATE SHE WOULD
REMAIN RESPONSIBLE TO YOU
FOR THE PRESENT AND ALL THE
OTHER OBLIGATIONS OF THE
TENANCY.
BUT IF IT'S AN ASSIGNMENT,
SHE'S GOING FOR GOOD, THEN
THE NEW TENANT COMING IN
WOULD TAKE OVER HER SPOT AND
THE OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE
LEASE THAT SHE SIGNED WITH
YOU.

Maureen says SO DOREEN WOULD
WANT TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT
THE ASSIGNED TENANT AND MAKE
SURE THAT THIS IS SOMEBODY
SHE WOULD HAVE RENTED TO IF
THEY'D APPROACHED HER LAST
YEAR.

Elinor says AND DO
YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE SHE MIGHT
WANT TO DO?
IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NEW
TENANT IS GOING TO MEET WITH
THE APPROVAL OF THE TENANT
WHO'S ALREADY LIVING THERE,
WHO INTENDS TO STAY.

Maureen says YEAH.

Elinor says BECAUSE
SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE TO
BE MEDIATING BETWEEN TWO
TENANTS.
THAT'S NOT THE JOB OF A
LANDLORD.
AND SO PROBABLY HAVING AN
INFORMAL MEETING BETWEEN ALL
OF THE PEOPLE PRIOR TO
CONSIDERING WHETHER TO
APPROVE THE ASSIGNMENT WOULD
BE A GOOD IDEA FROM HER
POINT OF VIEW AND FROM THE
TENANTS'.

Maureen says OKAY, ALRIGHT.
THANKS DOREEN.
SHANNON IS IN TORONTO.
HI SHANNON.

The Caller says HELLO.

Maureen says HELLO.

The Caller says I HAVE A REALLY
BIZARRE QUESTION FOR YOU
GUYS.
I MOVED INTO AN APARTMENT
ABOVE A STRIP MALL WITH MY
HUSBAND AND YOUNG CHILD, AND
WE KNEW THERE WAS ALREADY AN
ADULT VIDEO STORE DOWNSTAIRS
THAT DIDN'T REALLY BOTHER US.
THE WEEKEND WE MOVED IN WE
HAD STRANGE MEN WALKING UP
OUR STAIRWELL, BASICALLY
PROPOSITIONING ME FOR SEX.
WE FOUND OUT THERE WAS A
BROTHEL NEXT DOOR RENTED BY
OUR LANDLORD THAT HE DID NOT
TELL US ABOUT WHEN WE MOVED
IN.
AND NOW THOSE SAME
PROSTITUTES HAVE OPENED UP
AN EXOTIC MASSAGE DOWN
STAIRS IN AN OLD STORE BELOW
US.
WE'D LIKE TO GET SOME RENT
MONEY BACK OR BE ABLE TO GET
SOME REDUCED RENT
COMPENSATION SO WE CAN BUILD
UP ENOUGH MONEY TO MOVE.
WE'RE NOT UNDER OUR LEASE
ANYMORE BECAUSE WE CAN'T
AFFORD TO MOVE IS THERE
ANYTHING WE CAN DO?
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT, ANY
CHANCE THIS CAN HAPPEN AT
THE TRIBUNAL?
I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO IT
AND MAKE A MESS OUT OF MY
LIFE IF I'M NOT GOING TO GET
OUT OF IT.

Maureen says ELINOR?

Elinor says IT IS AN
INTERESTING PROBLEM YOU
PRESENT, SHANNON AND I WISH
YOU LUCK WITH IT.
I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING
THAT YOU CAN DO.
YOU CAN MAKE AN APPLICATION
THAT THE OTHER TENANT, I.E.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RENTING,
WHO ARE IN THE BROTHEL, WHO
ARE RENTING FROM THE
LANDLORD, ARE DISTURBING
YOUR REASONABLE ENJOYMENT OF
THE PREMISES.
AND IT MAY WELL BE THAT YOUR
LANDLORD WILL WORK OUT A
DEAL WITH YOU THAT MEANS
THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO
INTO THE TRIBUNAL AND ARGUE
THE CASE.
BUT DO YOU HAVE SOME RIGHTS
THERE, AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE
YOU TO GO TO A LEGAL CLINIC
OR A LAWYER AND GET SOME
ADVICE ON HOW BEST TO
PROCEED.
WITH RESPECT TO WHAT THE
TRIBUNAL CAN OFFER YOU, IN
SOME CASES THEY CAN OFFER
COMPENSATION, IN OTHERS THEY
CAN TERMINATE THE TENANCY,
IN SUCH A MANNER THAT YOU
DON'T HAVE TO SERVE OUT THE
TERM OF THE LEASE, AND YOU
MAY WELL, IF YOU'VE BEEN
BASICALLY FORCED BY
HARASSMENT, BY PEOPLE UNDER
THE LANDLORD'S CONTROL, YOU
MAY ALSO BE ABLE TO GET SOME
MOVING EXPENSES AND SOME
HELP RELOCATING.
SO GO TO A LEGAL CLINIC OR A
LAWYER.
TALK TO THEM.
FILE AN APPLICATION AND THEN
BEGIN THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH
THE LANDLORD.

Jane says SHANNON
FIX MIGHT ADD, RATHER THAN
GOING STRAIGHT TO THE
TRIBUNAL, I WOULD ADVISE TO
YOU GET AHOLD OF THE
LANDLORD FIRST, TELL THEM
WHAT THE PROBLEM, IS TELL
THE LANDLORD WHAT THE
PROBLEM IS.
THE LANDLORD MAY HAVE NO
IDEA AS TO THE EXTENT OF
WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT
BUILDING.
HE MAY JUST BE GETTING HIS
RENT AND THINGS ARE MOVING
ALONG MERRILY AND HE HAS IN
IDEA THAT YOU'RE BEING SO
INCONVENIENCED.
I WOULD SPEAK TO HIM.
IT SOUNDED LIKE YOUR LEASE
IS FINISHED AND YOU'RE A
MONTH TO MONTH TENANT SO YOU
DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO GIVE 60
CLEAR DAYS NOTICE, WE'RE IN
NOVEMBER NOW, YOU COULD GIVE
TERMINATION FOR JANUARY 31st
AND TERMINATE YOUR TENANCY
AND START LOOKING NOW FOR
ANOTHER PLACE.
IN THE MEANTIME YOU CAN GO
TO THE LANDLORD AND SAY LOOK,
I'VE BEEN INCONVENIENCED,
WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME SOME
FREE RENT AND I'LL GO
JANUARY 31st AND IF YOU
CAN'T MAKE AN AGREEMENT WITH
THE LANDLORD THAT YOU'RE
HAPPY WITH, THEN I THINK
YOUR ALTERNATIVE IS TO THEN
GO TO THE RENTAL TRIBUNAL.
BUT SHE'S JUST TOLD YOU, GO
STRAIGHT TO THE RENTAL
TRIBUNAL AND I'VE GOT TO
TELL YOU SHE'S TOLD TENANTS
THAT ON PREVIOUS SHOWS AND
TO ME THAT'S NOTHING MORE
THAN A DECORATION OF WAR.

Elinor says ACTUALLY
MY ADVICE IS GO STRAIGHT TO
A LEGAL CLINIC OR A LAWYER.

Maureen says WELL HOW MUCH IS
THAT GOING TO COST THOUGH?
SHE'S JUST TOLD US THEY
DON'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH MONEY
TO MOVE TO GET FIRST AND
LAST'S RENT IN ANOTHER PLACE.

Elinor says LOW INCOME TENANTS ARE
PROBABLY ELIGIBLE FOR LEGAL
AID OR THE SERVICES AT A
COMMUNITY LEGAL CLINIC.
AT THE VERY LEAST THEY WILL
GIVE THEM SOME INFORMATION
AND ADVICE ON HOW THEY CAN
PROCEED.
BUT SOMETIME WHAT'S WE DO AT
OUR CLINIC THAT SERVES
PEOPLE IN SOUTH PARKDALE, WE
WILL NEGOTIATE WITH THE
LANDLORD FOR YOU.
SO IF IT'S A SITUATION WHERE
YOU'RE AFRAID THAT THE
LANDLORD MAY ACTUALLY BE
INVOLVED IN THE OPERATION OF
THE BROTHEL YOU DON'T
REALLY WANT TO NEGOTIATE
WITH HIM YOURSELF, IT CAN BE
USEFUL TO HAVE SOMEBODY
WHO'S DISPASSIONATE, WHO IS
ON YOUR SIDE, BUT IN A VERY
PROFESSIONAL WAY CAN CONTACT
AND NEGOTIATE WITH YOUR
LANDLORD.

Maureen says OKAY.
COUPLE OF IDEAS THERE.
HOPE IT WORKS OUT.
THANKS, SHANNON.
MICHELE IS IN BRADFORD.
MICHELE, HI.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI.

The Caller says HI, I HAVE A
QUESTION ABOUT MY LAND LADY.
I LIVE IN A BUILDING, A
HIGH-RISE BUILDING.
I'VE HAD A FEW PROBLEMS WITH
HER, INCLUDING GETTING HER
TO TURN THE HEAT ON FOR THE
WINTER.
I HAD A PREMATURE BABY AND
HAD TO GO TO CITYPULSE TO
GET HER TO TURN IT ON.
RIGHT NOW I'VE BEEN FIGHTING
A BATTLE SINCE WE'VE MOVED
IN WITH THE HOT WATER IT.
COMES ON ASH TRAIRLY.
YOU COULD BE STANDING IN THE
SHOWER AND THEN ALL OF A
SUDDEN YOU'RE BLASTED WITH
STEAMING HOT WATER AND A
COUPLE SECONDS LATER IT'S
FREEZING COLD IT.
DOESN'T STAY THE SAME
TEMPERATURE AT ALL SO, I'VE
BEEN TAKING BATHS.
I'VE ASKED A FEW TIMES IF
THEY WERE GETTING THIS
FIXED.
THEY TOLD ME IT WOULD BE
FIXED IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS
AND I MOVED IN IN FEBRUARY
AND IT WAS JUST A COUPLE OF
WEEKS AGO THAT THEY SAID
THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING
ABOUT IT.
NOW THEY DID SOMETHING WITH
THE BOILERS UPSTAIRS BUT IT
JUST MADE IT WORSE.
MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE
SUSTAINED MANY BURNS.
I ACTUALLY FELL OUT OF THE
SHOWER LAST FRIDAY BECAUSE
IT TURNED HOT AND ARE
INJURED MY KNEE.

Maureen says SO DO YOU HAVE
HEAT ON NOW IF YOU WANT IT?

The Caller says I'VE GOT THE HEAT FOR THE
APARTMENT ON.
LIKE I SAID, I HAD TO GO TO
CITYPULSE TO SCARE HER INTO IT.

Maureen says YES, ALRIGHT.
OKAY SO, BASICALLY IT'S THIS
RAGING HOT-COLD THING GOING ON.
IT'S LIKE TAKING A SHOWER
BACK IN IRELAND WHEN I LIVED
THERE.
WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND, JANE?

Jane says THE LANDLORD IS
OBLIGATED TO KEEP THE
PREMISES FIT AND HABITABLE
AND IN A GOOD STATE OF
REPAIR.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT A GOOD
STATE OF REPAIR.
WHAT YOU SHOULD DO IS PUT
YOUR COMPLAINT IN WRITING
AND ITEMIZE WHEN YOU FIRST
COMPLAINED, WHAT THE PROBLEM
IS EXACTLY, AND PUT IN
WRITING, KEEP A COPY OF YOUR
LETTER OF COMPLAINT TO THE
LANDLORD, SEND IT TO THE
LANDLORD, REQUIRE THAT THE
LANDLORD FIX THE PROBLEM.
YOU MAY EVEN GIVE HIM A
TIMELINE AND SAY, YOU KNOW,
WE'VE BEEN PUTTING UP WITH
THIS FOR HOWEVER MANY
MONTHS.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT FIXED
BY THE END OF THE MONTH
ORBIT 20th OF NOVEMBER OR
SOMETHING, I'LL HAVE NO
ALTERNATIVE BUT TO SEEK, YOU
KNOW, MY LEGAL RECOURSE
AGAINST YOU.
SO PUT IT IN NOTICE IN
WRITING BECAUSE THE LAW DOES
SAY WITH TORONTO ABATEMENTS
YOU HAVE TO GIVE THE
LANDLORD FIRST OPPORTUNITY
TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM.
SO PUTTING IT IN WRITING IS
YOUR THEAFD YOU GAVE HIM
NOTICE.
OTHERWISE THE LANDLORD WILL
SAY SHE TOLD US, BUT WE
FIXED THE BOILERS AND NEVER
HEARD MORE FROM HER SO
ASSUMED IT WAS FIXED SO IF
THE LANDLORD DOESN'T FIX IT
AFTER YOU PUT IT IN WRITING,
GO TO THE TRIBUNAL AND SEEK
A REDUCTION IN YOUR RENT AND
AN ORDER THAT IT BE FIXED.

Maureen says BUT THIS COULD ALL
TAKE SOMETIME.
IN THE MEANTIME, THEY'RE
TALKING ABOUT GETTING BURNED
IN THE SHOWER HERE, ELINOR.
DOES THE LANDLORD RUN THE
RISK OF THEM ACTUALLY SUING
HIM IF ONE OF THEM GETS
SERIOUSLY HURT?
THEY'VE GOT A YOUNG BABY IN
THERE?

Elinor says THAT'S
ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY.
I DON'T THINK THE LANDLORD
INTENDS FOR THE WATER TO BE
TOO HOT.
IN OUR EXPERIENCES,
SOMETIMES LANDLORDS DON'T
PROVIDE HOT WATER SO THIS IS
A SITUATION WHERE CLEARLY
THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE
REGULATION OF THE WATER.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A
PROBLEM THAT THE LANDLORD IS
ATTEMPTING TO ADDRESS.
I'M INTRIGUED, THOUGH,
MICHELE, BECAUSE YOU WENT TO
CITYPULSE TELEVISION.
HAD YOU ALREADY WRITTEN THE
LANDLORD?

The Caller says OH, NUMEROUS TIMES, YES.

Elinor says SO YOU'VE ALREADY TAKEN
THE FIRST STEPS JANE
RECOMMEND, WHICH ARE GOOD
STEPS TO TAKE.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU GO
TO THE TRIBUNAL AND FILE AN
APPLICATION AT THIS POINT.
THAT MAY HELP TO FOCUS THE
LANDLORD ON WHAT YOUR ISSUES
ARE AND HOW BEST TO RESOLVE
THEM, AND IT ALSO MEANS THAT
IF YOU ULTIMATELY DECIDE TO
LEAVE OR AND YOU WANT SOME
SEED MONEY TO DO SO, YOU MAY
BE ABLE TO GET SOME KAIND
KIND OF AN ABATEMENT OF RENT
FOR THE PERIOD THAT YOU'VE
HAD THE PROBLEMS BUT IT'S
BEST TO TAKE THE LEGAL
ACTION, RATHER THAN GO TO
THE TELEVISION STATIONS AS
YOUR FIRST OPTION.
THERE ARE, OF COURSE,
OCCASIONS WHEN IT MAKES TO
GO TO A TELEVISION
TELEVISION STATION, BY
THE -- BUT THE TRIBE BUB
NAL -- TRIBUNAL TAKES WEEKS
AND WEEKS TO GET
APPLICATIONS HEARD.

Maureen says BUT JANE, YOU
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE
SOMETHING IN WRITING WITH A
DATE ON IT --

Jane says ESPECIALLY
BECAUSE AS SHE SAYS, THEY
WERE IN FIDDLING WITH THE
BOILERS A COUPLE OF WEEKS
AGO, THE LANDLORD MAY ASSUME
IF HE DOESN'T HEAR ANYTHING,
MAY ASSUME THAT FIXED THE
PROBLEM.

Maureen says SHE BROUGHT UP
THE ISSUE OF TURNING UP THE
HEAT.
WE'RE ALL, HOME OWNERS,
EXPECTING COSTS OF HEATING
TO GO UP.
JANE ARE LANDLORDS WORRIED
ABOUT THAT?

Jane says OBVIOUSLY WHEN HEAT GOES
UP, IT COSTS THE LANDLORDS
TO HEAT THE BUILDINGS.
THEY HAVE TO KEEP THE
BUILDINGS AT A CERTAIN
TEMPERATURE FROM A CERTAIN
DATE IN THE FALL TO A
CERTAIN DATE IN THE SPRING.
THAT'S A LEGAL REQUIREMENT.
AND THE MUNICIPALITY THAT
YOU'RE IN I BELIEVE SETS THE
DATE WHEN THE HEAT HAS TO GO
ON AND WHEN IT HAS TO GO OFF
IN THE SPRING.
SO INCREASED HEATING COSTS
INEVITABLY DRIVE UP THE COST
OF RENTALS --

Maureen says WILL THAT BE
REFLECTED QUICKLY, DO YOU
THINK OR WILL THAT TAKE A
YEAR OR SO?

Jane says I THINK THAT'S
GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME TO
COME THROUGH THE SYSTEM.
EVEN IF LANDLORDS WHO ARE
FACED WITH HIGHER HEATING
COSTS GO AND DO AN
APPLICATION TO THE TRIBUNAL
FOR AN INCREASE ABOVE THE
GUIDE LINE THAT TAKES A LONG
TIME TO GO THROUGH THE
SYSTEM.
IT'S GOING TO TAKE A COUPLE
YEARS TO COME THROUGH THE
SYSTEM AND A LOT OF LANDLORDS
AREN'T GOING TO BOTHER.
THE TENANTS ARE JUST GOING
TO GET THEIR 3 percent OR 2.9 percent OR
WHATEVER THE ANNUAL INCREASE IS.

Elinor says THERE IS
ONE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
WAY THE TENANT WILL PAY THE
INCREASE AND A HOMEOWNER.
IF A LANDLORD HAS SUSTAINED
A HUGE INCREASE IN COST,
THEY MAY GO AND RECOUP THAT,
AS JANE SAYS, ABOUT A YEAR
AND A HALF LATER FROM THE
TRIBUNAL IN THE FORM OF AN
ABOVE GUIDE LINE RENT
INCREASE.
THE DIFFERENCE FOR US AS
HOMEOWNERS IS THAT THE
FOLLOWING YEAR, IF IT GOES
DOWN, THE COST GOES DOWN,
OUR COSTS WILL GO DOWN.
BUT WITH TENANTS, THAT'S NOT
THE CASE.
ONCE THE COST IS BUILT INTO
A RENT ORDER THAT'S BEEN
MADE ON THEIR BUILDING, IT'S
NEVER TAKEN OUT.
SO THE FLUCTUATION WILL NOT
OCCUR FOR TENANTS.
LANDLORDS WILL APPLY WHEN
THE COSTS GO UP BUT THERE'S
NO REAL MECHANISM FOR
TENANTS TO RECOUP THE MONEY
SHOULD THE COSTS GO DOWN IN
FUTURE YEARS.
NOW WE DON'T KNOW THAT THAT
WILL HAPPEN, GIVEN WHAT'S
HAPPENING WITH THE
ENVIRONMENT.
BUT IT IS AN INDICATION OF
HOW TENANTS SOMETIMES WILL
PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE WHEN
COSTS GO UP BECAUSE IT'S A
RATCHET EFFECT.

Maureen says IT SEEMS TO ME
PAUL MARTIN MENTIONED IN HIS
LAST BUDGET THERE MIGHT BE A
HOME HEATING REBAIT FOR
PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN INCOME.
I WONDER IF THAT WOULD APPLY
TO TENANTS.

Elinor says I THINK
HE SAID IT WAS T', WOULD AND
THAT'S GOOD, BUT THAT'S A
ONE YEAR THING.
AND SO I'M NOT SURE THAT
THAT'S THE APPROPRIATE WAY
TO LOOK AT IT.
UNDER THE PREVIOUS RENT
CONTROL LEGISLATION, WHERE A
LANDLORD HAD APPLIED FOR AN
ABOVE GUIDE LINE RENT
INCREASE, IN SUBSEQUENT
YEARS, THE LANDLORD HAD TO
INDICATE HOW MUCH UTILITIES
HAD CHANGED, UP OR DOWN,
FROM ONE YEAR TO THE NEXT.
AND THE IDEA WAS THAT THEN
THE TENANTS WOULD HAVE THE
KNOWLEDGE APPLY FOR A
REDUCTION IN RENT IN YEARS
WHERE THE LANDLORD'S COSTS
HAD GONE DOWN.
IT'S COMPLICATED --

Maureen says BUT LANDLORDS
DON'T NEED TO DO THAT
ANYMORE?

Elinor says NO THEY
DON'T NEED TO DO THAT, AND
IN FACT IT WAS NOT IN PLACE
LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO
ACTUALLY BE EFFECTIVE FOR
TENANTS.

Maureen says MICHELE, THANKS
FOR YOUR QUESTION.
LET'S GO ON TO TINA IN
TORONTO.
HI TINA.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI.

The Caller says THE REASON I'M
CALLING, IS I RAN INTO THIS
KIND OF WEIRD SITUATION.
WE WERE LOOKING FOR A HOUSE
TO BUY AND WE WENT WITH OUR
REAL ESTATE AGENT, AND THERE
HAD BEEN TENANTS IN THE
HOUSE ALREADY, SO WE HAD OF
COURSE GOTTEN THE 24 HOUR
NOTICE AND SO ON, AND WE GET
THERE AND WE'RE PRETTY WELL
ALMOST -- AFTER WE HAD SEEN
THE HOUSE WE WERE
PRACTICALLY RUN OFF
BITTENNANT, ONE OF THE
TENANTS WHO HAD JUST COME
HOME.
HE WAS SAYING THAT WE HAD
BROKEN AND ENTERED AND ALL
THAT TYPE OF THING, AND I'LL
SEE YOU IN COURT.
AND I WAS WONDERING, MY
QUESTION IS, BASICALLY THE
REAL ESTATE AGENT ENDED UP
TAKING THE HOUSE OFF THE
MARKET.
I WAS JUST WONDERING IN A
CASE LIKE THAT HOW LONG
WOULD IT TAKE FOR THE
ORIGINAL LANDLORD TO GET RID
OF THE TENANTS IF THAT WERE
THE CASE?
LIKE WE WERE REALLY
INTERESTED IN THIS HOUSE,
BUT WE WERE REALLY
DISCOURAGED BY THE --

Maureen says BY THE TENANTS.

The Caller says THEY WERE
OBVIOUSLY PROBLEMATIC.

Maureen says WHAT DOES THE
ACTUAL LAW SAY --

Jane says NO TO SHOW IT TO
PERSPECTIVE PURCHASERS THE
LANDLORD HAS TO GIVE 24 HOUR
WRITTEN NOTICE AND THE
TENANTS DON'T HAVE TO
CONSENT TO THE SHOWING.
A LOT OF REAL ESTATE AGENTS
CALL ME AND SAY THE TENANTS
WON'T LET US IN, WHAT DO I
DO?
IN PRACTICE IT'S RATHER
DANGEROUS TO FORCE YOURSELF
INTO SOMEONE'S UNIT WHO
DOESN'T WANT TO LET YOU IN
BUT THE LAW BASICALLY SAYS
YOU GIVE 24 HOURS WRITTEN
NOTICE AND YOU CAN GO IN.
WHAT MOST AGENTS AND OWNERS
DO TO GET AROUND THAT IS TRY
AND SET UP THE SHOWINGS WHEN
THE TENANTS A NOT GOING TO
BE AT HOME TO CAUSE THE
DIFFICULTY, BUT THIS IS A
HUGE PROBLEM FOR LANDLORDS
WHO ARE TRYING TO SELL
RENTAL ACCOMMODATION WHEN
THE TENANTS REALIZE THAT
SOMEONE LIKE YOU IS GOING TO
BE MOVING IN AND KICKING
THEM OUT, AND IT'S IN THEIR
BEST INTERESTS TO DO
EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO MAKE
IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE
LANDLORD TO SELL THE
PROPERTY, SO THAT THEIR
TENANCY IS ASSURED.
BUT --

Elinor says IT'S A
PROBLEM FOR TENANTS, TOO.
WHAT WE HAVE OFTEN SEEN IS
REAL ESTATE AGENTS WHO DO
NOT GIVE 24 HOURS WRITTEN
NOTICE, OR THE LANDLORD DOES
IN THE GIVE 24 HOURS WRITTEN
NOTICE BECAUSE THE REAL
ESTATE AGENT IS MAKING ALL
THE ARRANGEMENTS TO SHOW
PERSPECTIVE PURCHASERS
WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF
EITHER THE TENANTS ORTLAND
LORD.
AND THEY ROUTINELY JUST COME
AND KNOCK ON TENANT'S DOORS
AND SAY “HI, WE'VE GOT
SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO SEE THE
APARTMENT.”
OR THEY PHONE THE TENANT AT
SEVEN O'CLOCK AT NIGHT AND
SAY “I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF
PEOPLE THAT WANT TO LOOK AT
THE HOUSE.
DO YOU MIND IF I BRING THEM
OVER?”
IT'S THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOUR
ON PART OF THE REAL ESTATE
AGENTS THAT CAN REALLY ADD
TO THE MIX.
AND REALLY MAKE THE TENANTS
NOT WILLING TO COOPERATE.
AS JANE SAID, THE TENANT HAS
AN OBLIGATION, IF THEY ARE
SERVED 24 HOURS WRITTEN
NOTICE.
AND THAT'S NOT ON ONE
OCCASION.
IT'S NOT FROM NOW ON I WANT
TO COME IN.

Maureen says IT'S EVERY TIME.

Jane says YEAH.

Elinor says AND REAL
ESTATE AGENTS DON'T WANT TO
DO THAT.
IT'S NOT CONVENIENT TO THEM.
YOU KNOW, OFTEN PEOPLE WANT
TO SEE A HOUSE THE VERY
EVENING THAT THEY HEAR ABOUT
IT --

Jane says MAYBE WE
CAN FINISH HER QUESTION,
BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO KNOW
WHAT THE LANDLORD CAN DO TO
GET THE CURRENT TENANTS OUT
SO THAT SOMEONE LIKE HER CAN
BUY IT.
THE LANDLORD TO GET THOSE
TENANTS OUT HAS TO HAVE A
GROUNDS OF TERMINATION UNDER
THE TENANT PROTECTION ACT.
NOW IF YOU WERE TO MAKE AN
OFFER ON THE HOUSE AND IT
WAS ACCEPTED TO THE LANDLORD
AND YOU WANTED TO ACTUALLY
OWNER OCCUPY THAT PREMISES,
THE LANDLORD COULD GIVE A
NOTICE OF TERMINATION FOR
OWNER OCCUPATION BY YOU TO
THE EXISTING TENANTS, AND
YOU COULD CRAFT YOUR
AGREEMENT OF PURCHASE AND
SALE IN SUCH A WAY WITH A
LONG ENOUGH CLOSING THAT THE
EVICTION SHOULD HAVE TAKEN
PLACE PRIOR TO YOUR CLOSING
DATE SO THAT THE HOUSE IS
READY FOR YOU TO MOVE IN.

Maureen says DO SOME BUYERS
THOUGH GET GHAUT A SITUATION
WHERE THEY'RE READY TO MOVE
IN AND THE TENANTS HAVEN'T
MOVED OUT?

Jane says ABSOLUTELY, THE TENANT
CAN OPPOSE THE APPLICATION.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE
TRIBUNAL AND PROVE THAT YOU
ACTUALLY INTEND TO MOVE IN
AND YOU'RE REASONABLY -- YOU
KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO MOVE
INTO THAT PREMISES.
THE TRIBUNAL HAS TO BELIEVE
YOU, AND THEN THE TENANT
CAN -- YOU KNOW, APPEAL THE
DECISION, SEEK A REVIEW OF
THE DECISION, CAN DO A LOT
OF THINGS TO HINDER THE --

Elinor says IN
PRACTICE MOST TENANTS DON'T
DO THAT, AND OFTEN A PRUDENT
LANDLORD WHO WANTS TO SELL A
BUILDING EMPTY WILL TALK TO
THE TENANTS AND MAKE THEM AN
OFFER SO THAT THEY DON'T
HAVE TO DO ANY EVICTION AT
ALL AND EVERYBODY'S HAPPY
AND THAT OFTEN IS A VERY
GOOD APPROACH.
IT'S IMPORTANT, THOUGH, TO
RECOGNIZE THAT THE TENANTS
DO HAVE SOME RIGHTS HERE.
IF THEY HAVE A WRITTEN LEASE
WITH THE LANDLORD, THEY
STILL CANNOT BE EVICTED
UNTIL THE END OF THE LEASE.

Maureen says OKAY.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LANDLORD
AND TENANT ISSUES THIS
AFTERNOON WITH ELINOR
MAHONEY AND JANE FERGUSON.
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT
YOUR RIGHTS, EITHER AS A
LANDLORD OR A TENANT GIVE US
A CALL.

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Maureen says AND MONIQUE IS
IN OTTAWA.
HI MONIQUE.

The Caller says HELLO.

Maureen says HELLO.

The Caller says I HAVE TWO
QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

Maureen says OKAY.

The Caller says THE FIRST ONE IN
'97 WE MADE FRIENDS A REAL
ESTATE AGENT.
WE WERE LOOKING FOR A HOUSE,
AND THEN ALL PLACES WE WERE
LOOKING AT WERE DENIED
EXCEPT HE CAME UP TO ME AND
HE SAID “WE HAVE THIS
SPECIAL PLACE,” BLAH BLAH,
MY WIFE AND I, WE THINK
YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE IT IT'S
A PERFECT PLACE FOR YOU.
WE TOOK ON THIS HOUSE, IT'S
A SEMIY TACHD, WE WERE
GIVING DOWN PAYMENT DOWN FOR
THE WHOLE YEAR PLUS THE RENT,
IT IS 1,200 dollars AND THEN I
OPENED A DAYCARE SITE ON ONE
OF THE SITES AND THEN AS I
DID MY RESEARCH TO HAVE IT
FOR THE ZONING I WAS TOLD
THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A
TWO BEDROOM BUNGALOW.
THIS HOUSE HERE.

Maureen says UH-HUH.

The Caller says AND I'VE REGIVEN
THE HOUSE TO THE LANDLORD,
BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO GET
BACK ON OUR FEET, TWO HYDRO
BILL, TWO HEAT BILLS, IT'S
HEATED BY HYDRO AND THE
HEATERS ARE DISCONNECTED
FROM THE WALL, THEY KEEP
SHUTTING ON AND OFF AND ALL
THAT SO WE'RE LIVING ON THE
ONE SIDE.
AT THE BEGINNING THIS MONTH
ON THE 30th I GAVE THE
LANDLORD A LETTER TELLING
HIM THAT BOTH TENANTS ON
UNIT ONE AND B WOULD NOT BE
PAGE THE RENT BECAUSE HE'S
BEEN PROMISING US SINCE JUNE
TO FIX THE DOORS.
THESE DOORS ARE LIKE -- HOW
WOULD YOU SAY?
BEDROOM DOORS ARE USED AS
APARTMENT DOORS.

Maureen says OKAY.
SO THEY'RE NOT VERY STRONG,
YOU'RE SAYING.

The Caller says THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE
HANDLES ANYMORE.
THEY'RE FALLING APART.

Maureen says WELL WAIT A
MINUTE --

The Caller says THE BACK DOOR HAS NOT
LOCKED FOR TWO YEARS.

Maureen says SO YOU CAN'T
LOCK YOUR DOOR.

The Caller says NO.

Maureen says OKAY SO, YOU'VE
GIVEN THIS TO THE LANDLORD.
HAS HE OR SHE RESPONDED?

The Caller says HE GAVE ME A NOTICE.

Maureen says A NOTICE OF
EVICTION.

The Caller says YES, UNLESS I GAVE HIM
THE RENT RIGHT AWAY.
LIKE I TOLD HIM, I GAVE HIM
THE LETTER, I SAID SINCE YOU
WEREN'T PAYING AND MY OTHER
TENANTS WERE WASHING DISHES
IN THE BATHTUB FOR A WEEK,
THAT WE WERE HOLDING OUR
RENTS, AND HE GAVE US, HE
GAVE ME A NOTICE.
HE GOT HER SINK FIXED AND
SHE GAVE HIM THE RENT.
HE SAID SOMEONE WOULD BE
CALLING FOR THE DOOR, WHICH
HE'S BEEN SAYING SINCE
AUGUST AND NO ONE HAS CALLED
YET.

Maureen says OKAY, SO THIS IS
A SIMILAR SITUATION TO THE
OTHER --

Jane says SHE'S GOT
A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS
GOING ON BUT THE QUESTION
SEEMS TO BE WITH RESPECT TO
THE BROKEN DOORS.
BASICALLY YOUR REMEDY IS NOT
TO WITHHOLD YOUR RENT BUT TO
BRING YOUR OWN APPLICATION
TO THE TRIBUNAL FOR AN
ABATEMENT OF RENT, A
REDUCTION OF RENT FOR THE
NON-REPAIR.
BASICALLY UNLESS THERE'S A
FUNDAMENTAL BREACH AND YOUR
APARTMENT IS BASICALLY NOT
AVAILABLE TO YOU FOR THE
PURPOSE THAT APARTMENTS ARE
USED FOR AND LIVING IN IT,
YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR RENT.
SO THAT IS REALLY YOUR
REMEDY.
IF YOU WANT YOU CAN PAY YOUR
RENT INTO THE TRIBUNAL AND
THEN WHEN THE TRIBUNAL
DECIDES HOW MUCH YOU'RE
ENTITLED TO GET BACK, IF
ANYTHING, THEY WILL PAY OUT
THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT TO
YOU AND THE APPROPRIATE
AMOUNT TO THE LANDLORD, BUT
YOU SHOULDN'T JUST NOT PAY
YOUR RENT.
YOU SHOULD EITHER PAY IT TO
THE LANDLORD AND BRING AN
APPLICATION OR YOU SHOULD
PAY IT INTO THE TRIBUNAL
WHEN YOU BRING YOUR
APPLICATION.

Maureen says IF HE'S TRYING
TO EVICT HER NOW, ELINOR,
LOOKS LIKE THIS IS GOING TO
THE TRIBUNAL ANYWAY, IS IT?

Elinor says WELL IT MAY BE.
THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER ISSUE I
HEARD THIS THERE ABOUT A
DAYCARE BEING OPERATED IN
THE OTHER HALF OF THE
SEMI-DETACHED AND THAT WILL
NOT BE AN ISSUE FOR THE
TRIBUNAL.
THE TRIBUNAL DEALS WITH
RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES, BUT I
WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT
YOU GET SOME LEGAL ADVICE,
BECAUSE IN FACT THAT MAY OR
MAY NOT BE A LEGAL DAYCARE
CENTRE AS WELL.
AND THAT'S OUTSIDE MY AREA
TO ADVISE YOU ON --

Maureen says SOUNDS LIKE
SHE'S NOT EVEN OPERATING IT
ANYMORE.
WHAT'S YOUR ADVICE ABOUT
JUST THE FACT THAT THE DOORS
DON'T LOCK SO SHE'S WITHHELD
RENT FROM HIM AND NOW HE'S
EVICTING HER.
DO YOU AGREE WITH JANE THAT
SHE SHOULD PAY THE RENT AND
THEN GO TO THE TRIBUNAL --

Elinor says TENANTS
DON'T HAVE MANY OBLIGATIONS.
THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO
PAY THE RENT.
THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO
KEEP THEIR PLACE BASICALLY
CLEAN AND NOT TO BOTHER
OTHER PEOPLE.
THAT'S ABOUT IT, PRETTY
SIMPLE.
AND IF YOU DON'T PAY YOUR
RENT, IT'S A FAIRLY SERIOUS
COURSE OF ACTION TO TAKE,
PARTICULARLY IF YOU HAVEN'T
WRIT TENT LANDLORD, GIVEN
THE LANDLORD AN OPPORTUNITY
TO FIX THINGS AND SO ON.

Maureen says WELL IT SOUNDS
LIKE SHE HAS --

Elinor says TENANTS OFTEN DO
IT BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS SO
COMMONSENSICAL.
IF I'M NOT GETTING MY WORK
DONE, I'M NOT PAYING THE
RENT.
BUT YOU SEE WHAT WAS YOU?
GET A NOTICE OF EVICTION.
ALL OF A SUDDEN NOW YOU
COULD BE INCURRING LEGAL
COSTS THAT THE LANDLORD
MIGHT HAVE IT'S REALLY A
GOOD IDEA FOR YOU TO GO AND
GET SOME LEGAL ADVICE AND
TALK TO SOMEBODY.
SORT OUT WHAT THE PROBLEMS
ARE, WHAT YOUR OPTIONS ARE.
AND DEAL VERY SWIFTLY WITH
THE EVICTION APPLICATION.

Maureen says OKAY.
THANKS FOR THE CALL.
JAKE IS IN PETAWAWA.
HELLO, JAKE.

The Caller says HELLO?

Maureen says HELLO.

The Caller says HELLO, YES.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR JANE
AND ELINOR TODAY REGARDING
HOW WOULD I APPROACH MY
LANDLORD IN REGARDS TO ME
WANTING, WITH THE APPROVAL
OF HEALTH CANADA, TO
CULTIVATE AND CONSUME
MARIJUANA ON HIS PROPERTY?

Elinor says THAT'S AN
INTERESTING QUESTION, JAKE.
BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT IS
JUST INTRODUCING CHANGES TO
THE TENANT PROTECTION ACT
THAT WILL MAKE GROWING
MARIJUANA FOR THE PURPOSES
OF TRAFFICKING A REASON FOR
A FASTER EVICTION THAN IS
CURRENT UNDER THE TENANT
PROTECTION ACT SO, THIS IS
SOMETHING WHERE THE
GOVERNMENT IS ACTUALLY
MOVING TO GET TOUGHER.
AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS AN
AREA WHERE SENIOR LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT AT THE --

Maureen says FEDERAL LEVEL.

Elinor says --
FEDERAL LEVEL ARE STARTING
TO LOOK AT ALLOWING PEOPLE
TO GROW MARIJUANA IN ORDER
TO USE IT FOR MEDICINAL
PURPOSES.
SO WE'RE IN A WEIRD FLUX NOW
BETWEEN CHANGES IN THE
FEDERAL LAW AND CHANGES IN
THE PROVINCIAL LAW.
MY FIRST ADVICE TO YOU,
THOUGH, IS THAT IT IS
CURRENTLY AN OFFENCE TO GROW
MARIJUANA AND I WOULDN'T
BRING THIS TO YOUR
LANDLORD'S ATTENTION AT ALL.
I THINK IT'S GOOD, PRUDENT
THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ASK
FOR PERMISSION BEFORE YOU DO
THIS, AND I THINK THAT
THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, BUT I
WOULDN'T BRING IT TO HIS
ATTENTION, BECAUSE OF THE
PROPOSALS THAT ARE IN THE
PROVINCIAL LAW WHICH COULD
BE PASSED AS EARLY AS THIS MONTH.

Jane says BUT EVEN
WITHOUT THE NEW PROPOSAL,
YOU CAN STILL BE EVICTED FOR
AN ILLEGAL ACT ON THE
PREMISES.
AND IF YOU'RE GROWING
MARIJUANA ON THE PREMISES
WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF
HEALTH CANADA, AND WITHOUT
SOME KIND OF A PERMIT FROM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THEN
IT'S STILL GOING TO BE AN
ILLEGAL ACT SO BEFORE YOU DO
ANYTHING GET YOUR PERMIT.
THEN WITH THAT IN HAND, YOU
MAY WANT TO CONSIDER
APPROACHING THE LANDLORD
BECAUSE YOU'VE THEN AT LEAST
GOT SOMETHING THAT SAYS “I
CAN DO THIS WITHOUT IT BEING
AN ILLEGAL ACT.”

Maureen says YEAH.

Elinor says OR YOU
MAY TO WANT FIND A FIELD
SOMEWHERE FAR AWAY FROM YOUR
APARTMENT, BECAUSE IF YOU
GROW MARIJUANA OFF
THE PREMISES, AS LONG AS YOU
DON'T BRING IT ONTO THE
PREMISES, AT LEAST YOUR
TENANCY WILL NOT BE IN
JEOPARDY, REGARDLESS OF THE
LEGALITY OF WHAT YOU DO OR
DON'T DO.

Maureen says OKAY.
INTERESTING.
CAN WE TALK ALSO ABOUT
CHANGES TO THE TENANT
PROTECTION ACT.
WHAT ELSE IS IN THESE
PROPOSED CHANGES THAT
TENANTS SHOULD KNOW ABOUT?

Elinor says WELL
THERE'S A COUPLE.
I KNOW JANE WANTS TO TALK
ABOUT ONE AND SO DO I.
ONE OF THE EARLY CALLERS WAS
TALKING ABOUT A DISPUTE
BETWEEN ROOMMATES, SOMEBODY
RENTING OUT TO STUDENTS.
AND ONE OF THE CHANGES THAT
WE'RE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT
IN THE TENANT PROTECTION ACT
THAT IS BEFORE THE
LEGISLATURE RIGHT NOW IS A
PROPOSAL THAT HEAD TENANTS
THAT SOMEBODY WHO RENTS A
HOUSE SAY FROM A LANDLORD
AND THEN RENTS OUT ROOMS IN
THE HOUSE TO OTHER
TENANTS -- AND THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS A LOT
WITH STUDENT HOUSING, THAT
THEY WANT TO SAY THAT HEAD
TENANTS HAVE NO LANDLORD
TENANT RESPONSIBILITIES AS
LANDLORDS.
SO THIS MEANS WE'RE GOING TO
SEE A SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE,
YOU KNOW, MAY SAY OH, WELL I
PAID MY RENT TO MAUREEN.
SHE PAYS IT TO THE LANDLORD.
AND THEN LET'S SAY MAUREEN,
YOU DON'T PAY THE MONEY ONTO
THE LANDLORD, YOU POCKET THE
MONEY.
OR YOU SAY ELINOR, I NEVER
GOT YOUR CHEQUE FROM YOU.
I MAY HAVE A DISPUTE WITH
YOU THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH THE LANDLORD.
I SHOULD HAVE A MECHANISM TO
HAVE MY DISPUTE HEARD.
CURRENTLY I CAN'T.
BUT IF THESE CHANGES GO
THROUGH, TENANTS WHO RENT
FROM OTHER TENANTS, WHERE
THEY'RE ALL SHARING AN
ACCOMMODATION TOGETHER WILL
HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THE
TENANT PROTECTION ACT,
WHEREAS THE HEAD TENANT WILL
CONTINUE TO HAVE RIGHTS AS
TENANTS AND THERE WILL BE NO
PROPER DISPUTE MECHANISM TO
DEAL WITH THE KINDS OF
SITUATIONS THAT TINA WAS
DESCRIBING EARLIER.

Maureen says OKAY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT
CONCERNS YOU JANE, BUT WHAT
IS THE PART OF THE PROPOSAL
YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT?

Jane says THERE ARE A
COUPLE OF CHANGES TO THE ACT
THAT ARE PROBLEMATIC FOR
LANDLORDS.
I THINK THE MOST SIGNIFICANT
ONE HAS TO DO WITH THE
CHANGES TO SECTION 35.
AND THIS BASICALLY EXPANDS
THE AREA WHICH TENANTS
CAN -- THE TENANTS CAN
COMPLAIN ABOUT AND TAKE
THEIR LANDLORD TO THE
TRIBUNAL.
BASICALLY IT OPENS UP THE
WHOLE CAN OF WORMS OF
DAMAGES.
IF, LET'S SAY, THERE'S SOME
NON-REPAIR IN THE UNIT, NOT
ONLY RIGHT NOW THE LANDLORD
HAS TO FIX IT AND THE
TENANT'S ENTITLED TO AN
ABATEMENT OF RENT.
IF THE NEW CHANGES GO WILL
YOU AND LET'S SAY THE
NON-REPAIR CAUSES DAMAGE TO
THE TENANT'S BELONGINGS,
PRESENTLY THE TENANTS HAVE A
REMEDY FOR THAT, BUT THEY
HAVE TO GO TO SMALL CLAIMS
COURT.
SO --

Maureen says YES.

Jane says AND ALSO
FOR THEIR OUT OF POCKET
EXPENSE, IT WAS TOO COLD IN
MY APARTMENT FOR THREE DAYS,
I HAD TO GO LIVE IN THE
SHERATON FOR THREE NIGHTS
AND THAT'S 600 dollars, THEY HAVE A REMEDY.
THEY CAN GO TO SMALL CLAIMS
FOR THAT BUT NOT THE
TRIBUNAL BECAUSE THE ISSUE
OF DAMAGES IS BASICALLY A
COMPLEX LEGAL ISSUE, AND THE
RIB BOONE NAL IS MEANT TO BE
AN EXPEDIENT MANNER OF
RESOLVING DISPUTES.
THERE ARE A LOT OF LEGAL
CHARGES, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT
THE LANDLORD CAN'T TAKE TO
THE TRIBUNAL.
FOR INSTANCE THEY'RE
ENTITLED TO CHARGE A TENANT
20 dollars PLUS ACTUAL OUT OF
POCKETS FOR N.S.F. CHEQUES
BUT YOU CAN'T COLLECT THAT
AT THE TRIBUNAL.
THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE SMALL
CLAIMS COURT FOR THAT 20 dollars.
SO THE TRIBUNAL IS NOW
SAYING WE'RE GOING TO GIVE
THE TENANTS THE RIGHT TO GO
TO THE TRIBUNAL AND I THINK
IT'S GOING TO REALLY BOG
DOWN THE WHOLE PROCESS
BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE
RELIEF THAT THEY'RE ALLOWING
THE TENANTS TO HAVE.

Maureen says I ASSUME ELINOR
YOU THINK IT'S FINE IT'S
HANDLED AT THE TRIBUNAL
BECAUSE SMALL CLAIMS COURT
IS JUST ONE MORE AREA WHERE
PEOPLE DON'T FEEL
COMFORTABLE MOVING IN,
THEY'RE NOT LAWYERS --

Elinor says ONE OF
THE CONCERNS WE'VE HAD WITH
THIS TRIBUNAL IS THEY KEEP
WANTS TO DECLINE
JURISDICTION.
THEY KEEP WANTING TO SAY
“WE CAN'T DEAL WITH THIS,
WITH THAT.”
AND NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN IT
SEEMS TO BE WHEN A TENANT
HAS A CLAIM AGAINST THE
LANDLORD AND UNDER THE
COURTS THEY HAVE A PRINCIPLE
THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE
A MUMT PLIS TEE OF
PROCEEDINGS.
YOU WANT TO HAVE A STRAIGHT,
SIMPLE WAY OF DOING THINGS.
THE TRIBUNAL IS SUPPOSED TO
HAVE JURISDICTION TO DEAL
WITH LANDLORD AND TENANT
DISPUTES SO WE FEEL IF THE
ROOF HAS BEEN LEAKING FOR
TWO YEARS AND THE LANDLORD
HASN'T FIXED IT AND ONE DAY
THERE'S A FLOOD AND YOUR
STEREO WAS BROKEN, YOU
SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO TO THE
TRIBUNAL.

Maureen says ALRIGHT, WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT
THERE.
IT GOES BY SO QUICKLY.
THANK YOU, BOTH, WE HOPE
YOU'LL COME AGAIN.
THAT IS ELINOR MAHONEY, A
COUNSELLOR AT PARKDALE
COMMUNITY LEGAL SERVICES AND
JANE FERGUSON IS A LAWYER
WHO SPECIALIZES IN LAND LORD
AND TENANT LAW.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS
ISSUE, CALL THE ONTARIO
RENTAL HOUSING TRIBUNAL AT 1-888-332-3234,
OR LOG ONTO THE ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT WEBSITE AT
www.gov.on.ca
COMING UP NEXT
ON “MORE TO LIFE'S” MOVIE
BUFF THOM ERNST WILL BE IN
TO GIVE US SOME WEEK WEEKEND
VIEWING TIPS.
BUT FIRST, WE'VE ALL SEEN
THE IMAGES OF WAR, BUT
FORTUNATELY MOST OF US
HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED IT.
TODAY ACROSS ONTARIO WAR
VETERANS WILL BE SPEAKING TO
SCHOOL CHILDREN ABOUT WAR
AND REMEMBRANCE DAY.
BUT THE KIDS IN THEIR
INNOCENCE ALREADY SEEM TO
KNOW WHAT MATTERS THE MOST.

(Dramatic music plays)

Slow-motion old black and white clips show soldiers running into battlefields, explosions, and planes crashing.

A man in his late seventies with a trimmed moustache appears and says
WE'RE REMEMBERING THE
PEOPLE FROM THE 1914-18 WAR,
THE WAR THAT WE FOUGHT IN
THE 1939-45.
THERE'S THE KOREAN WAR,
THERE ARE MANY, MANY
PEACEKEEPING OPERATIONS THAT
THE CANADIANS HAVE DONE, AND
WE'RE REMEMBERING ALL THOSE
PEOPLE.

Now the man stands in front of a classroom with about 20 children under the age of ten.
The man is wearing a decorated military uniform.

He salutes and says GOOD AFTERNOON.

ALL the children say
GOOD AFTERNOON.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Brian Shelley. Flight Lieutenant, R.A.F."
A poster hangs on a nearby wall that reads “Canadian Heroes.”

The man says NOW Mrs. GRANGER HAS
KINDLY INVITED ME TO COME
OVER AND TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT REMEMBRANCE DAY.
SO WAR IS A TERRIBLE THING.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET ANY
IDEAS -- YOU LOSE FRIENDS,
YOU SEE TERRIBLE SIGHTS AND
PEOPLE ARE KILLED, BUT IN
1939, WE HAD TO FIGHT.
IF WE DIDN'T FIGHT, WE'D
HAVE BEEN TAKEN OVER IN
ENGLAND AND THEN EVENTUALLY
THEY'D HAVE COME OVER HERE
AND TAKEN YOU OVER.

In his interview, Shelley continues
AND I THINK IF WE CAN
TELL OUR YOUNGER GENERATION
SOMETHING ABOUT THE WAR AND
WHAT WE DID AND WHY WE'RE
FREE TODAY, IT'LL HELP THEM
TO BELIEVE GROWING UP -- TO
BE GROWING UP AS CANADIAN
CITIZENS, BETTER CANADIAN
CITIZENS.

A black and white clip of soldiers on the battlefield reads “War.”

A blond boy around 12 with a necklace appears and says
PEOPLE ARE EMOTIONALLY
HURT FOR THE REST OF THEIR
LIVES.
MANY OF THEIR FRIENDS DIE.
FAMILY DIES.
PEOPLE WILL OFTEN GET AFRAID
FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

Another boy around 12, with brown hair, says I THINK THERE WAS JUST A
LOT OF, UM, BOMBING, A LOT
OF... NOISES, OF AIRPLANES
GOING BY AND A LOT OF...
UM... PRESSURE ON THE
SOLDIERS.
LIKE ONE MINUTE THERE COULD
BE THEIR FRIEND BESIDE THEM,
NEXT MINUTE THEY'RE ON THE
GROUND.

A girl around 12 with long brown hair says A LOT OF PEOPLE GET
KILLED OR WOUNDED OR BADLY
HURT, AND THEN WHEN
SOMEONE -- AND WHEN ONE OF
THE SIDES END UP WINNING,
REALLY NO ONE'S A WINNER,
BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH LOSING
A LOT OF PEOPLE AS THEY'RE
DOING THIS.

Shelley says THE ONE POINT THAT I
THINK REALLY HAS TO BE GOT
ACROSS IS WHY WE'RE
REMEMBERING TO TELL THEM WHY
WE FOUGHT.
BECAUSE WE WANTED FREEDOM.

Another black and white clip reads “Remember.”

A girl around 12 with long blond hair says I THINK THAT IT'S
IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW
WHAT IT'S ABOUT SO IT WON'T
HAPPEN AGAIN.
AND WE CAN WORK AROUND IT.
MAYBE KEEP THE WORLD FROM --
KEEP THE WORLD BEING A
BETTER PLACE.

A blond boy with very short hair says IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT,
WHY WOULDN'T THEY JUST SAY
NO AND SAVE THEIR LIVES?
BUT THEY DIDN'T.
THEY JUST WEREN'T SELFISH
AND JUST WENT ALL OUT AND
PROTECTED OUR COUNTRY.

A girl with long auburn hair says I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO
REMEMBER THEM, BECAUSE THEY,
THEY REALLY DID DO A LOT.
AND I MEAN, IF WE WEREN'T
DOING ANYTHING TO REMEMBER
THEM, IT WOULD KIND OF BE
TAKING OUR FREEDOM FOR
GRANTED.

In the classroom, Shelley says WE DID DROP BOMBS AT TIMES.
AND WE DID SHOOT AT TIMES.
BUT TO SAY I ACTUALLY KILLED
ANYBODY, I WOULDN'T LIKE TO
SAY.
WE PROBABLY DID.
BUT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE UP
THERE AND YOU DROP SOMETHING
DOWN HERE, IT'S -- IT'S NOT
LIKE GOING AT SOMEBODY WITH
A BAY NET.

A black and white clip of people waving at the troops reads “Imagine.”

The boy with the necklace says I DON'T FEEL THAT WARS
ARE GOOD.
WHEN PEOPLE WANT TO TAKE
OVER THE WORLD... YOU
SHOULDN'T REALLY HAVE THE
URGE TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD
ANYWAY.

A girl with short blond hair says TALK TO THE PEOPLE WHO
WERE TRYING TO MAKE THE WAR
AND TRY AND STOP THEM FROM
DOING IT, BECAUSE I DON'T
THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE WARS.
BECAUSE, LIKE, PEOPLE DIE,
AND IT'S NO FUN.

The girl with auburn hair says WELL, I THINK I'D SORT OF
FOLLOW THE UNITED NATIONS
AND MAYBE MAKE THEM EVEN
STRONGER AND BETTER AND SORT
OF GET CHILDREN AND ADULTS
TO SORT OF LISTEN, AND TELL
THEM NOT TO DO THESE THINGS
AND THAT'S THERE'S A BETTER
WAY TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS.

Shelley says I'M VERY GLAD I HAD A
SON, AND I'M VERY HAPPY HE
HASN'T HAD TO GO THROUGH THE
SAME THING THAT I WENT
THROUGH.
I HAD SIX YEARS OF IT.
AND YOU DON'T WANT TO REPEAT
THAT.
PEACE IS TERRIBLY IMPORTANT.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Maureen says AND OUR THANKS TO
THOSE VERY ARTICULATE
STUDENTS FROM POPULAR ROAD
PUBLIC SCHOOL IN TORONTO, AS
WELL AS TO CANADIAN VET
BRIAN SHELLEY.
HERE TO TALK ABOUT A FEW
APPROPRIATE MOVIES FOR THIS
REMEMBRANCE DAY WEEKEND IS
“MORE TO LIFE” MOVIE BUFF
THOM ERNST.

Thom sits next to Maureen. He’s in his late thirties, with short wavy gray hair. He’s wearing a black turtleneck with a red flower pin.

Maureen continues HI THOM, WELCOME.

Thom says HELLO.

Maureen says THERE IS A NEW
MOVIE IN THEATRES THIS
WEEKEND THAT MIGHT BE ALONG
THESE LINES.
WHAT IS IT?

A caption reads “Thom Erns. Movie Buff.”

Thom says IT'S “MEN OF
HONOUR” WITH ROBERT DENIRO
AND CUBA GOODING ARE Jr.
IT'S ABOUT HEROISM, AND
ABOUT A YOUNG MAN WHO WANTS
TO INFILTRATE A PRETTY MUCH
ALL-WHITE DIVING GROUP OF
ELITIST DIVERS.
AND HE CAN'T, OF COURSE,
BECAUSE HE'S BLACK.
HE'S A YOUNG SHARECROPPER
BUT HE DOES IT.
HE WILL BE THE FIRST BLACK
MAN IT ACTUALLY SUCCEED IN
DOING IT.
IT'S BASED ON A TRUE STORY.

Maureen says AND THIS IS
DURING WORLD WAR II I TAKE IT?

Thom says IT'S JUST
PRIOR TO THE WAR, YES AND
THERE IS A REAL CALL OUT TO
ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE.
EVERYONE IS COMING IN.
OF COURSE THERE'S
SEGREGATION INVOLVED, EVEN
IN THE WAR.
AND IN THIS POINT, IN THIS
MANNER, THE RACIAL ISSUE IS
REALLY THE STRONG POINT OF
THIS FILM.

Maureen says OKAY.

Thom says AND I THINK,
YOU KNOW, I THINK WHEN YOU
DO WATCH THE CLIP, YOU'LL
SEE THAT THE MOVIE DOES TEND
TO FALL INTO SORT OF VERY
CARDBOARD CHARACTERS,
UNFORTUNATELY.
EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE TWO
VERY, VERY STRONG ACTORS.

Maureen says ALRIGHT.
WELL LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT A
CLIP FROM “MEN OF HONOUR.”

A clip plays on screen.

In the clip, a black sailor in his twenties says
I deserve to pass.

A white officer in his forties says
SINCE WHEN DOES DESERVING
MEAN ANYTHING?
BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT YOU
DO IN THEIR EYES YOU'LL
NEVER BE AS GOOD AS THEM SO
DESERVING OR OTHERWISE
YOU'RE FAILING.

The sailor says NO, YOU ARE!

The officer says YOU THINK I OW YOU SOMETHING?

The sailor says YOU AND I HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON.
I MAY BE SOME DIRT DUMB
NIGGER FROM PODUNC, AT LEAST
I'M MAKING SOMETHING OF MYSELF.
YOU, YOU'RE THE SAME HATEFUL
LITTLE MAN YOU ALWAYS WAS.
NEVER MIND DIVING.

The officer grabs a radio and violently smashes it against the floor.

(CRASH)

The sailor’s face contorts in rage.

Then, the officer grabs a portrait with a picture.

The sailor yells
HEY!

The officer says WHAT HE DID SAY TO YOU TO
MAKE YOU TRY SO HARD?!

The sailor’s eyes fill with tears and he says BE THE BEST!

The officer says WELL, YOU ARE.
JUST DON'T SHOW UP TOMORROW.
PAPPY AIN'T GONNA LET YOU PASS.

The clip ends.

Maureen says THOSE ACTORS
HAVE DONE BETTER ACTING JOBS
BEFORE.

Thom says THEY'VE HAD
BETTER LINES BEFORE, TOO.

Maureen says OH, MAYBE THAT'S IT.

Thom says YEAH, IT'S
VERY CARDBOARD SHOULD AS I
SAID, THERE'S NOTHING NEW IN
IT, AND I THINK PART OF THE
PROBLEM WITH THE FILM IS
IT'S DEALING WITH A TRUE
STORY AND IT'S DEALING WITH
A VERY HEROIC MAN.
CARL BRASHEAR, WHO WAS THE
FIRST BLACK MAN IT ACTUALLY
ENTER AND SUCCEED IN THIS
FIELD.
AND I THINK WHEN YOU DEAL
WITH STORIES LIKE THAT, YOU
TEND TO RAISE THE MUSIC.
YOU TEND TO RAISE THE
BRAVARA A LITTLE BIT MORE
AND IT DOESN'T WORK WELL IN
THIS PARTICULAR FILM
ALTHOUGH I MUST SAY AND I
HAVE TO POINT THIS OUT THE
AUDIENCE I WAS WITH SEEMED
TO ENJOY IT A WHOLE LOT MORE
THAN I DID.
SO I'LL GIVE IT THAT.

Maureen says OH, OKAY.
WHAT ABOUT ABOUT, LET'S SAY
IF PEOPLE WENT TO RENT
SOMETHING, I COULD SEE MAYBE
A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTING TO
RENT “SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.”
THIS WEAKEN.

Thom says TO ME THAT
WAS A VERY VERY POWERFUL WAR
PICTURE.
IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST
PICTURES I SAW -- AND I SAW
IT ON A BIG SCREEN -- THAT
REALLY MADE ME RECOGNIZE
JUST HOW TERRIFYING THE WAR
WAS AND HOW LUCKY I WAS,
JUST TO BE BORN AT THAT
CERTAIN TIME WHERE I WAS NOT
INVOLVED.
AND THAT OUR GENERATION WAS
NOT INVOLVED IN THIS COUNTRY,
WAS NOT INVOLVED IN A WAR.
NOW, ON THE SMALLER SCREEN,
AND THIS, OF COURSE, DEPENDS
WHETHER YOU'RE SEEING IT ON
DVD, IF YOU HAVE A BIG
SCREEN, SURROUND SOUND, THE
EFFECT IS NOT QUITE AS
STRONG.
AND I THINK WHAT SPIELBERG
DID WITH “SAVING PRIVATE
RYAN” WAS TAKE THE SORT OF
GENERAL MATINEE MOVIE, WAR
PICTURES THAT HE SAW WITH
JOHN WAYNE IN THEM, AND
TALES OF HEROISM LIKE “GUNS
OF NAVARONE” AND “THE GREEN
BERET” AND ADD THIS DOSE OF
REALISM THAT WAS VERY
VIOLENT AND FRIGHTENING.

Maureen says THE FACT THAT
MAYBE ON THE SMALL SCREEN
IT'S NOT AS VIVID, FOR SOME
PEOPLE THAT'LL BE A GOOD
THING.

Thom says ABSOLUTELY.

Maureen says BECAUSE THERE
WERE SCENES IN THAT MOVIE I
JUST KNOW SOME PEOPLE JUST
COULDN'T WATCH.

Thom says WELL I
UNDERSTAND THAT THE FEW MEN
THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THAT,
THAT HAVE SURVIVED IT, IT
WAS VERY TRAUMATIC TO WATCH
IT AGAIN AND REALLY STOOD BY
SPIELBERG AND IN SAYING
“THIS WAS VERY REAL.
THIS IS HOW IT WAS
REMEMBERED.”
SO I KNOW YOU KNOW I'M A BIG
FAN OF HORROR FILMS BUT
NOTHING FRIGHTENED ME MORE
THAN THE OPENING SEQUENCE OF
“SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.”

Maureen says WHAT ABOUT
“SATURDAY NIGHT AT THE
MOVIES?”
ARE YOU GOING TO RUN JOHN
WAYNE OR NO?

Thom says NO, BUT WE
HAVE TWO VERY APPROPRIATE
FILMS.
WE'VE GOT “CASABLANCA” WHICH
OF COURSE IS WITH HUMPHREY
BOGART, AND THAT'S A CLASSIC
FILM.
YOU DON'T NEED ME TO TELL
THAT YOU AND IT'S FOLLOWED
BY A REAL HIDDEN GEM CALLED
“TO BE OR NOT TO BE.”
AND THIS IS BY A DIRECTOR BY
THE NAME OF ERNST LUBITCH,
HE'S GERMAN AND LEFT HIS
COUNTRY TO JOIN AMERICA,
MAKE FILMS AND ESCAPE THE
WAR AND RISE GOING ON THERE.
HE MADE THIS FILM ABOUT NAZI
TYRANNY COMING INTO
POST-WARSAW, WARSAW, AND
TERRORIZING THIS GROUP OF
POLISH ACTORS.
BUT IT'S A COMEDY.
NOW AT THE TIME HE WAS --
PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT HIM TO DO
THIS FILM.
PEOPLE WERE UPSET.
JACK BENNY'S FATHER, JACK
BENNY STARS IN THIS MOVIE,
WOULDN'T TALK TO HIM FOR
MONTHS AFTERWARDS BUT NOW WE
CAN RECOGNIZE IT AS A REAL
IMPORTANT POLITICAL SATIRE
AND IT'S A VERY FUNNY
PICTURE.

Maureen says WE'VE GOT A CLIP,
RIGHT?

Thom says MM-HMM.

Maureen says TO BE OR NOT TO BE.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

A black and white clip plays in which a woman and a man in their forties argue.

The woman says ALRIGHT, SLUTSKY WANTS ME
TO HAVE DINNER WITH HIM, AND
MAYBE I'LL HAVE TO KILL HIM
MYSELF BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY
ONE WHO CAN GET TO HIM.
YOU SEE, ALL THIS WOULDN'T
HAVE HAPPENED IF THE
LIEUTENANT ARRIVED BEFORE
HIM.
BUT THEY SENT A PLANE BEFORE
SLUTSKY SO ARRIVED BEFORE
THE LIEUTENANT IS THAT
CLEAR?

The man says NO.

Another younger man storms in and says SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
DIN WE ARE HIM?
IS THAT --

The older man says WAIT A MINUTE, I'LL
DECIDE WITH WHOM MY WIFE'S
GOING TO HAVE DINNER --

The woman dramatically says
POLAND'S AT STAKE.

The older man says LISTEN, YOU, FIRST YOU
WALK IN ON MY SOLILOQUY, NOW
YOU QUESTION MY SLIPPERS,
AND NOW MY PATRIOTISM.
I'M A GOOD -- I LOVE MY
COUNTRY AND I LOVE MY
SLIPPER SLIPPERS.

The clip ends.

Maureen says IT'S NICE TO SEE
JACK BENNY AGAIN.

Thom says HE WAS VERY
INSECURE ABOUT THIS FILM.
HE DIDN'T THINK HE HAD THE
TALENT TO PULL IT OFF BUT HE
REALLY DOES AND THAT WAS
CAROL LOMBARD WHO DIED
UNFORTUNATELY SELLING WAR
BONDS RIGHT AFTER THIS
PICTURE, AND ROBERT STACK.
A VERY YOUNG ROBERT STACK.

Maureen says WE HAVE ABOUT A
MINUTE SO, can we JUST TALK
ABOUT OUR OTHER FAVOURITE
WAR MOVIES PEOPLE MIGHT WANT
TO RENT?

Thom says I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT
WHICH ONES I LIKE.
NOW PLATOON WAS THE FIRST
ONE I REMEMBER THAT CAME OUT
THAT REALLY BROUGHT THE
REALITIES OF WAR TO THE BIG
SCREEN, AND I DON'T KNOW IF
YOU RECALL THE FEELING ABOUT
THAT, BUT IT WAS --

Maureen says THAT'S THE
VIETNAM WAR.

Thom says THAT'S THE
VIETNAM WAR.

Maureen says WHAT ABOUT
GALLIPOLI.
ISN'T THAT --

Thom says THAT'S A
GREAT PICTURE.
I KNOW THAT'S ONE OF YOUR
FAVOURITES.

Maureen says IT'S JUST
MARVELOUS.
IF PEOPLE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT
IT'S A GREAT MOVIE.
THERE, WE'VE COVERED VIETNAM,
WE'VE GOT WORLD WAR II AND
THEN WORLD WAR I.
THAT SHOULD PRETTY MUCH TAKE
CARE OF IT.

Thom says YES, AND I
THINK IF YOU SAW “MEN OF
HONOUR” YOU COULD ENROY IT
JUST FOR ITS PATRIOTISM BUT
I WARN PEOPLE IT DOES FALL
INTO THAT VERY SORT OF
CLASSIC -- FOR A MOVIE ABOUT
DEEP SEA DIVING, IT'S VERY
SHALLOW HAZ THANK YOU VERY
MUCH, THOM.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
THOM ERNST IS “MORE TO
LIFE'S” MOVIE REVIEWER.
YOU CAN SEE MORE OF HIS
PICKS ON OUR WEBSITE.
GO TO www.tvo.org/moretolife
Thanks for watching More to Life today.
I’m Maureen Taylor and I invite you to join us Monday through Friday from 1 to 2 o’clock.

A closing slate reads “The advice given in the preceding program is of a general nature only. Viewers should consult their own medical professional for medical advice specific to their circumstances.”

Watch: Landlord/Tenant, Remembrance Day, Movies