Transcript: Pumpkin Carving - Teacher Turmoil | Oct 31, 2000

(music plays)
The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: “More to life.”

Then, Maureen Taylor appears in a studio with green and yellow walls.

Maureen is in her late thirties, with wavy blond hair in a bob. She's wearing a purple blazer over a washed pink blouse, and a pearl necklace.

Maureen says I'M MAUREEN TAYLOR.
TEACHERS LOCKED OUT OR WHEN
TO RULE, WHEN ARE WE GOING
TO HAVE SOME PEACE IN OUR
SCHOOLS IN WE'LL TAKE YOUR
CALLS ON THAT IN JUST A BIT.
BUT FIRST WITH APOLOGIES TO
LINUS AND THE GREAT PUMPKIN,
WELCOME TO “MORE TO LIFE'S.”
FIRST, MAYBE ANNUAL PUMPKIN CARVE.

Maureen stands behind a table with a pumpkin on it, next to a man. The man is in his fifties, with receding gray hair and a full beard. He’s wearing glasses and a green polo shirt.

Maureen continues WE WANTED SOMETHING A LITTLE
SNAZZIER THAN YOUR TYPICAL
JACK O LANT TERN FACE, SO
WE'VE INVITED Bill Redelmeier
TO PICK UP NICE AND CARVE
SOMETHING SPECIAL.
HE OWNS SOUTHBROOK FARMS,
AND BILL, WELCOME TO THE
SHOW.

Annie says THANK YOU, MAUREEN AND
I'M GLAD TO BE HERE ON MY
FAVOURITE TIME OF THE YEAR.

Maureen says I'LL BET IT IS.
YOU'VE BROUGHT IN SOME
PUMPKINS AND YOU WANTED TO
GET STARTED CARVING WHILE WE
TALK THAT WOULD BE FINE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD HAVE
THEIR PUMPKIN NOW BUT IF
THEY DIDN'T, WHAT IS IT THEY
AUGHT TO LOOK FOR WHEN
CHOOSING A PUMPKIN.

As he begins to carve a hole on the top of the pumpkin, Bill says THIS YEAR I'M NOT SURE
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MUCH
CHOICE.
IT'S NOT BEEN A GREAT YEAR
AND EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE
JUST ABOUT SOLD OUT.
WE'VE BEEN HAVING TO BUY
THEM IN FOR THE LAST FEW
DAYS AND WE'VE JUST GOT WHAT
I THINK IS GOING TO BE OUR
LAST LOAD IN.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Bill Redelmeier. Southbrook Farms."

Maureen says SO YOU HAD TO
ACTUALLY IMPORT PUMPKINS TO
YOUR FARM?

Annie says WE DID.
WE GROW 65 ACRES, AND BUT
THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THE
CROP HAS BEEN SO LOUSY THIS
YEAR, WE'VE ONLY HARVESTED
OFF ABOUT 35 ACRES OR SO.
SO WE NORMALLY SELL
SOMEWHERE AROUND 350 OR
400,000 POUNDS OF PUMPKINS A
YEAR AND WE PROBABLY HAD TO
BUY IN ABOUT 50 OR 60,000
POUNDS.

Maureen says WHERE DID YOU BUY
THEM FROM IF THE CROP WAS
LOUSY IN ONTARIO?

Annie says EASTERN ONTARIO'S BEEN
OKAY AND PATCHES OF WESTERN
ONTARIO, BUT IT'S NOT BEEN
CONSIST.
THE PROBLEM IS, HAS BEEN
THAT DIFFERENT VARIETIES ARE
BETTER OFF AT DIFFERENT
TEMPERATURES.
AND IT'S BEEN WET, WHICH HAS
DAMAGED THE PLANTS
THEMSELVES.
BUT IT'S ALSO BEEN VERY COOL,
WHICH HAS MEANT THAT WE'VE
ENDED UP WITH A LOT MORE
MALE FLOWERS.
AND OF COURSE MALE FLOWERS
ON PUMPKINS ARE IMPORTANT
BUT IT'S NOT WHAT YOU GET
THE PUMPKINS FROM.

Maureen says YOU GET THE PUMPKIN
FROM THE FEMALE FLOUR.

Annie says EXACTLY.

He removes the seeds and flesh from inside the pumpkin.

Maureen says WHAT MAKES A
PUMPKIN GOOD?
WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR?

Annie says WELL YOU'RE LOOKING FOR
SOMETHING, FIRST OF ALL THE
SIZE.
MOST OF THE PUMPKINS HAVE
BEEN BRED FOR SIZE AND FOR
COLOUR.
A NICE, BRIGHT ORANGE.
YOU LOOK ESPECIALLY EARLIER
ON IN THE YEAR NOT TO HAVE
ANY SOFT PATCHES ON THE
PUMPKINS, BECAUSE THAT'S
GOING TO DO NOTHING BUT
SPREAD.
THIS YEAR THERE'S A LOT OF
PEOPLE THAT HAVE TAKEN
PUMPKINS ARE WITH A LITTLE
BIT OF A SOFT PATCH AWAY --

Maureen says YEAH, WE HAD TO.

Annie says WELL THAT CAN ALWAYS TURN
OUT TO BE THE NOSE OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO IT'S
NOT A MAJOR PROBLEM.

Maureen says SO YOU'RE
GUTTING THIS NOW.

Annie says I'M GUTTING IT AS WE
SPEAK.
I CAN USE, I PROBABLY WILL,
THERE'S ALL SORTS OF LITTLE
TOOLS THAT ARE MADE.

Maureen says A LITTLE
SCRAPER.

Annie says DEPENDS ON HOW PICKY YOU
WANT TO BE.

Maureen says DO YOU DO
ANYTHING WITH THE GUTS?

Annie says YOU CAN.
IT'S ACTUALLY -- PUMPKIN
SEEDS ARE REALLY, REALLY
NICE.
WHAT YOU DO IS SORT OF SCOOP
THEM DOWN INTO THE BOTTOM,
SMOOSH THEM AROUND IN YOUR
HAND AND THEN YOU CAN --
I'VE THROWN THE BEST
HANDFULS OUT, BUT YOU'LL
ALWAYS END UP WITH A COUPLE
OF HANDFULS OF JUST STRAIGHT
SEEDS.
GIVE THEM A RINSE IN THE
SINK, PUT THEM ON A PAPER
TOWEL TO DRY, AND THEN PUT
THEM ON A BAKING SHEET IN
THE OVEN, A LITTLE BIT OF
OLIVE OIL OR CORN OIL ON
THEM AND THEN WHAT I LIKE TO
USE, YOU CAN USE SALT AND
PEP HE, I USUALLY LIKE TO
USE A BIT OF SOYA SAUCE AND
PUT THEM IN THE OVEN AT 350 degrees
UNTIL THEY TURN A LITTLE BIT
BROWN, NICE AND TOASTY.
THEY'LL END UP -- USUALLY
TAKES ABOUT 20, 25 MINUTES
OR SO TO DO IT, AND THEN
THEY'RE A GREAT SNACK,
ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO IT THE
DAY BEFORE, THEY CAN GO INTO
THE SCHOOLS AS SORT OF A NUT
NUT-FREE SNACK THE KIDS CAN
HAVE.

Maureen says OH, YEAH, THAT'S
A GREAT IDEA.

Annie says SOB'LL PROBABLY PHONE IN
AND SAY --

Maureen says YEAH, I'M
ALLERGIC TO PUMPKIN SEED.
WHAT OTHER TOOL CAN YOU USE
TO CARVE A PUMPKIN?

Annie says WELL YOU NEED A SCOOPER.
THIS IS ONE OF THE GREAT
THING, YOU CUT THE TOP OFF
AND IF YOU'RE USING A REAL
KNIFE LIKE THIS A NICE SHARP,
THIN-BLADED KNIFE IS WHAT
YOU'RE LOOKING FOR BUT OF
COURSE IT'S VERY DANGEROUS
FOR THE KIDS.
SO ONCE YOU GET THE TOP OUT,
LET THE KIDS GO IN AND TAKE
THE GUTS ALL OUT, BECAUSE
THEY HAVE A WONDERFUL TIME
WITH IT.
AND THEN YOU CAN USE --
THERE ARE SPECIFICALLY MADE
PUMPKIN KNIVES.

Maureen says WITH SERRATED EDGES.

Annie says NOW THIS IS A FINE ONE
WHICH IS REALLY GREAT FOR
DETAILS WORK.
IT COMES AS PART OF A KIT,
USUALLY WITH STENCILS AND
THAT SORT OF THING.
OR THESE ARE REALLY KIDS'
KNIVES.
THEY HAVE NO SHARP EDGES ON
THEM, BUT THEY'RE GREAT NOT
ONLY FOR KIDS TO USE BUT FOR
ADULTS, BECAUSE THEN THEY
CAN CUT CURVES ON A PUMPKIN.

Maureen says I JUST WANT TO
POINT OUT TO PEOPLE HOW
YOU'VE DONE A NICE JOB OF
ANGLING THE TOP CUT.

Annie says YOU HAVE TO ANGLE IT IN
BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T...

He makes a gesture of the lid falling in and says
I'VE
DONE THAT IN THE PAST.

Maureen says YE, TOO.

Annie says AND YOU THEN JUST DROP IT
IN AND IT FALLS STRAIGHT
THROUGH THE MIDDLE.

Maureen says SO ANGLE THAT IN.

Annie says ANGLE IS IT AND SOME
PEOPLE CUT A KEY AWAY BUT
IT'S REALLY ONLY IMPORTANT
IF YOU'RE DRAWING A PERFECT
CIRCLE I ALWAYS FIND YOU'RE
GOING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY
WHERE IT'S GOING TO FIT AND
TO BE HONEST YOU PROBABLY
WANT TO SIT IT NOT BACK IN
ITS ORIGINAL PLACE ONCE YOU
GET THE CANDLE GOING AND
THAT LEAVES A LITTLE BIT OF
ROOM FOR SMOKE TO COME OUT.

Maureen says ARE YOU GOING TO GO
FREESTYLE HERE OR ARE YOU
GOING TO USE A STENCIL?

Annie says I USUALLY DON'T USE A
STENCIL.
WHAT I DO, ESPECIALLY WITH
KIDS AND I RECOMMEND FOR
KIDS IS TO LET THE KIDS USE
AN INDELIBLE MARKER ON THE
FRONT, LET THEM DRAW THE
FACE AND THEN THE ADULT CAN
TAKE OVER.
SPECIALLY IF YOU'RE USING
A REAL KNIFE, LET THE ADULT
DO THE CARVING.
THAT SOLVES IT KEEPS THE
KIDS INVOLVED AND THEY'RE
HAVING A GOOD TIME.

Maureen says OKAY, GO AHEAD.
WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO DO THIS?

Annie says WELL, I'M GOING TO CUT IT
ON THIS SIDE.
I'M GOING TO DO AN OLD --
IT'S A TRADITIONAL SHAPE.
I ALWAYS ASK THE PARENTS
WHEN DOING PUMPKIN TOURS WHY
THIS TRADITION OF CARVING
TRIANGLE SHAPES FOR EYES AND
NOSES?
AND I GET ALL SORTS OF
PEOPLE THINKING OH, THERE'S
SOME DEEP SATANIC REASON FOR IT.

He carves triangular eyes into the pumpkin.

Maureen says I'LL BET IT'S
JUST EASIER.

Annie says WITH A REGULAR KNIFE IT'S
A LOT EASIER TO CUT STRAIGHT
LINES THAN IT IS TO CUT
CURVES.
I'M GOING TO MAKE THIS A
LITTLE BIGGER.
I'M USED TO CARVING REALLY
SMALL PUMPKINS FOR THE
CLASSES, SO... UP AT THE
FARM, ACTUALLY, WE HAVE A
SILO THAT'S PAINTSED TO LOOK
LIKE THIS.
SO IT'S EASY TO RECOGNIZE.

Maureen says THEY HAVEN'T
COME UP WITH POWER TOOLS FOR
CUTTING PUMPKINS?

Annie says I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE DO IT.
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE,
YOU'LL SEE THAT CARVE
COMPETITIVELY.
NOW WHAT THEY WOULD DO IS
TAKE MOST OF THE FLESH OUT
HERE.
WHETHER THEY EAT IT OR
WHETHER THEY'RE JUST GETTING
RID OF IT AND THEN ACTUALLY
USING THOSE LITTLE HOBBY AIR
DRILLS AND GETTING A LOT OF
DETAIL.

Maureen says REALLY?

Annie says BUT THAT'S PUSHING IT A
LITTLE BIT TOO FAR, I THINK.

Maureen says YEAH, YEAH.

Annie says SO WE'VE GOT THE EYES
DONE.
I'M GOING TO PUNCH THOSE OUT
NOW AND I'M GOING TO USE THE
PUMPKIN KNIFE AS A CARVER
FOR THE NOSE, BECAUSE I LIKE
TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF A FREE
FORM SHAPE.

Maureen says OKAY AND THE
JACCO LANTERN AS PART OF
HALLOWEEN, WHAT'S THE
TRADITION BEHIND WHAT?

Annie says WELL THE TRADITION,
HALLOWEEN USUALLY CAME FROM
IRELAND AND SCOTLAND TO
CELEBRATE ALL HALLOW'S DAY,
NOVEMBER 1I, WHICH IS WHEN
EVERYBODY WHO DIED IN THE
PREVIOUS YEAR IS SUPPOSED TO
COME BACK TO LIFE AND BE
PROPERLY LAID TO REST,
BASICALLY.
SO ALL HALLOW'S EVE PROBABLY
ORIGINALLY IS CELTIC, AND
WAS BASICALLY THE NIGHT OF
THE LIVING DEAD.
WE'VE SORT OF LIGHTENED UP
ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.
IT'S THINGS LIKE MUMMERS,
WHICH NOW ARE IN
NEWFOUNDLAND ON NEW YEAR'S
EVE, WOULD HAVE COME FROM
THE SAME TRADITION.
BUT IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR
PEOPLE TO REALLY COME
COMPLETELY OUT OF CHARACTER.
AND IN THE OLD DAYS,
BASICALLY WHAT PEOPLE WOULD
DO WOULD BE DO A LOT OF
DESTRUCTIVE STUFF.
WHEN YOU WERE SAYING
TRICK-OR-TREAT YOU WERE
ACTUALLY HOPING IT WAS GOING
TO BE A TRICK RATHER THAN A
TREAT.

Maureen says RIGHT.

Annie says WE HAVE RECORDS IN
RICHMOND HILL OF A LOT OF
DAMAGE BEING DONE.
AND THIS WAS GENERAL, BACK
IN THE 1800s, PRIVIES BEING
TIPPED OVER AND WAGONS BEING
STOLEN AND HORSES BEING LED
INTO PEOPLE'S HOUSES AND
STUFF LIKE THAT.

Maureen says CITY OF DETROIT
TRIES TO CARRY ON THAT
TRADITION, I THINK.

Annie says RIGHT.
WHERE AS NOW WE'VE LIGHTENED
UP AND IT NO LONGER HAS THAT
NEGATIVE MEANING.

Maureen says I WANT TO -- I
HAVE TROUBLE WITH THE MOUTH.
I WANT TO LEAVE SOME TEETH
BUT THEN END UP CUTTING THEM
OFF.

Annie says THE TRICK IS I CUT THE
CENTRE LINE AND THAT'S LATER
GOING TO BE CUT INTO WITH
THE TEETH SO TO GET THE
TOOTH DONE, YOU HAVE THE
CENTRE LINE CUT AND THEN CUT
DOWN FROM THE CENTRE LINE TO
THE NEW MOUTH.

As he speaks, he shows the motion.

Maureen says SO YOU HAVE THE
CENTRE LINE THAT WON'T --
IT'LL BE GONE WHEN YOU PULL
THIS PIECE OUT.

Annie says EXACTLY, EXACTLY.

Maureen says OKAY.

Annie says SO THAT'S -- NOW WE'RE
JUST GOING TO HAVE ONE OR
TWO TEETH ON THE BOTTOM.

Maureen says OKAY.

Annie says THERE'S ONE, AND NOW
WE'RE GOING TO DO THE TOP.
THIS IS A GRADE ONE PUMPKIN,
SO --

Maureen says HE'S LOSING HIS
TEETH.

Annie says HE'S LOSING HIS TEETH.

Maureen says LIKE A GOOD
SIX-YEAR-OLD SHOULD.

Annie says AND IT SHOULDN'T TAKE
MORE THAN FIVE OR TEN
MINUTES TO CARVE A PUMPKIN.
ONCE YOU GET A LITTLE BIT OF
EXPERIENCE IT'S EASY AND
IT'S SOMETHING I LOOK
FORWARD TO EVERY YEAR.

Maureen says DO YOU DO
DIFFERENT PUMPKINS FOR THE
FRONT OF YOUR HOME SO YOU
HAVE A VARIETY UP THERE?

Annie says I HATE TO SAY IT MAUREEN,
IT'S VERY MUCH LIKE THE
COBBLER'S CHILDREN.

Maureen says OH, YOU'RE LUCKY
TO HAVE ANY PUMPKIN OUT
THERE.

Annie says YEAH, EXACTLY.
ACTUALLY THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN
ONE OF MY PROBLEMS.
I'M SO BUSY UP AT THE FARM I
TEND TO FORGET TO DO THE
ONES FOR THE HOUSE.

Maureen says THAT'S GREAT.
YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT
BLACK SPOT RIGHT OUT OF
THERE.
LOOK AT THAT.

Annie says EXACTLY.
THAT'S THE EASIEST WAY TO
GET RID OF ANY SOFT SPOTSES
THERE.
HE'S JUST GOT TWO TEETH.

Maureen says ANY TRICKS FOR
KEEPING THE CANDLE UPRIGHT
AND GLOWING?

He grabs a little tea light and says
WHAT I USUALLY DO, I USE
THESE LITTLE TEA LIGHTS.
SOMETIMES I'LL USE TWO OR
THREE DIFFERENT ONES.
AND THEY'RE RELATIVELY CHEAP
BUT THE NICE THING IS THAT
THEY'RE CONTAINED.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT A FIRE.
THEY'LL LAST TWO OR THREE
HOURS BY THEMSELVES.
AND THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE
TO WORRY ABOUT GETTING THE
LAST OF THE GUNGE OUT OF THE
BOTTOM OF THE PUMPKIN, AND
YOU JUST, LIKE I SAY, USE
TWO OR THREE.

Maureen says FINAL QUESTION,
BILL, AFTER WE'RE DONE WITH
THE PUMPKIN, A COUPLE DAYS
FROM NOW, CAN YOU COMPOSE
THE PUMPKIN IN YOUR
COMPOSTER?

Annie says THEY COMPOST BEAUTIFULLY.
IN FACT IT'S REALLY NOT VERY
MUCH TO THEM.
THEY'LL SMOOSH DOWN REALLY
WELL.
YOU HAVE TO WORRY A LITTLE
BIT -- IT'S NOT MUCH OF A
WORRY, BUT SOMETIMES IF YOU
THROW THE SEEDS IN THE
COMPOST YOU MAY END UP WITH
PUMPKINS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Maureen says THIS HAS BEEN
WONDERFUL.
HAVE A HAPPY HALLOWEEN.
THANKS FOR DOING THIS.

Annie says IT'S BEEN GREAT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Maureen says THAT IS BILL
RIDDLEMEYER, OWNER OF A BIG
PUMPKIN PATCH AT SOUTH BROOK
FARMS IN RICHMOND HILL.
IF YOU JUMP UP AND DASH OUT
YOU MAY STILL FOUND PUMPKINS
TO CHOOSE FROM.

A slate with pictures of pumpkins reads “Southbrook farms, 905-832-2548, www.southbrook.com”

Maureen continues A GREAT HALLOWEEN pumpkin
SITE IS WWW.PUMPKIN-CARVING.COM
OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO PUT THE
KNIVES FAR FAR AWAY AND
WELCOME TWO GUESTS WITH VERY
DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THE
CURRENT TURMOIL IN
EDUCATION.
TEACHERS ARE STRIKING OR
WORKING TO RULE, AND WE'LL
TAKE YOUR CALLS ABOUT THAT.
BUT FIRST, A LOOK AT WHAT
WE'RE WORKING ON FOR
THURSDAY'S SHOW.

A clip shows pictures of houses and decorations inside houses.

Maureen narrates DOES YOUR DECOR
HAVE YOU DOWN IN THE DUMPS?
LOOKING FOR A FRONT PORCH
FACELIFT?
WE MAY HAVE THE ANSWERS TO
YOUR DECORATING DILEMMAS.
ON THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 2nd,
INTERIOR DESIGNER EVA
KAMLEBITZ WILL JOIN US WITH
HOME IMPROVEMENT TIPS THAT
WON'T BREAK THE BANK.
SO TELL US YOUR TROUBLES.
TAKE A PICTURE OF YOUR
PROBLEM, DRAW OUT A FLOOR
PLAN AND SEND IT TO US WITH
YOUR QUESTIONS.
MAIL THEM TO...

A slate reads “More to Life. TVOntario, 2180 Yonge Street, Toronto, Ontario, M4T 2T1.
Fax: 416-484-4519.
Email: moretolife@tvo.org”

A transitional slate reads “More to life.”

Then, Maureen reappears in the studio and says ANOTHER
TEACHER'S STRIKE.
ANOTHER YEAR WITHOUT SPORTS
OR DRAMA OR GRADUATION
CEREMONIES.
AND PARENTS ARE PRETTY MUCH
FED UP.
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS
IN HAMILTON HAVE BEEN LOCKED
OUT BY THEIR SCHOOL BOARD
AFTER IT FAILED TO REACH AN
AGREEMENT WITH THE TEACHER'S
UNION.
VARIOUS OTHER UNIONS ARE
WORKING TO RULE FOR THE SAME
REASONS.
IT'S DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN,
AND WE'RE NOT LEAVING THIS
STUDIO UNTIL WE COME UP WITH
SOME SOLUTIONS.
ANNIE KIDDER IS PRESIDENT OF
PEOPLE FOR EDUCATION, JOHN
BUCKMAN IS WITH THE
ORGANIZATION FOR QUALITY
EDUCATION, AND LET'S HEAR
FROM PARENTS AND STUDENTS
OUT THERE.

Annie and John join Maureen. Annie is in her forties, with shoulder-length straight auburn hair. She’s wearing a black blazer over a white shirt, and rounded glasses. John is in his late fifties, clean-shaven, with receding gray hair. He’s wearing glasses, a black suit, gray shirt and green tie.

Maureen continues ARE YOU TIRED OF TEACHER TURMOIL?
WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO
BRING US PEACE IN OUR
SCHOOLS AGAIN?
GIVE US A CALL.

A caption reads "416-484-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
Then, it changes to "moretolife@tvo.org"

Maureen says AND
ANNIE AND
JOHN, WELCOME.
HI.
ANNIE, I KNOW WE DON'T KNOW
ALL THE DETAILS, WE'RE NOT
IN THE HAMILTON BOARD, BUT
WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT WHAT'S
AT THE ROOT OF THE STRIKE
THERE?

The caption changes to "Annie Kidder. People for Education."

Annie says IT SEEMS TO BE MONEY.
FROM WHAT I READ IN THE
PAPER, AND I KNOW JUST AS
LITTLE OR AS MUCH AS YOU
KNOW, I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE
THE BASIC ISSUE THAT WE'RE
DEALING WITH, REALLY
EVERYWHERE IN A WAY, COMES
DOWN TO MONEY AND SORT OF
WHAT YOUR OPINION IS OF
TEACHERS.
BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE
BOARDS ARE ENDING UP HAVING
TO NEGOTIATE, AND WITH
TEACHER, NEITHER OF WHOM
WILL HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER
WHAT SORT OF GOES INTO THE
NEGOTIATIONS, THEY'RE LEFT
AT A KIND OF STANDSTILL.
THERE'S NOTHING -- THEY'RE
FIGHTING AND THEY END UP
FIGHTING OVER LITTLE TINY
THING, BUT THE BASIC PROBLEM
IS THEY'RE NOT BEING GIVEN
THE MONEY.
THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO
WORK WITH, IN A WAY, IN
THEIR NEGOTIATIONS.

Maureen says NOW I THOUGHT
THE PROVINCE GAVE BOARDS
MONEY TO GIVE TEACHERS A
RAISE?

Annie says IT DID.
IT GAVE -- IT SAID TO THE
BOARDS YOU CAN HAVE 2 percent.
YOUR TEACHERS CAN HAVE A 2 percent
INCREASE.
NOW THE PROBLEM IS WITH THAT
IS THAT MOST TEACHERS
HAVEN'T HAD A RAISE IN AT
LEAST SEVEN YEARS SO THEY
OBJECT TO THE 2 percent.
AND THERE'S STILL A SORT OF
A WIDE VARIETY OF TEACHERS'
PAY ACROSS THE PROVINCE.
SO THAT SOME OF THEM WANT
THAT EVENED OUT.
SO THE 2 percent FOR THEM DOESN'T
COVER -- IT DOESN'T EVEN
COVER INFLATION.
INFLATION NOW IS AT 2.7 percent.
SO IT DOESN'T EVEN COVER
INFLATION FOR ONE YEAR, LET
ALONE THE LAST SEVEN FOR
WHICH THEY HAVEN'T HAD
RAISES.

Maureen says JOHN, DO YOU
THINK IT'S TIME TEACHERS GOT
A RAISE?

The caption changes to "John Bachman. Organization for Quality Education."

John says YES, I DO.
I THINK IT'S TIME TEACHERS
GOT A RAISE AND ACTUALLY
PART OF THE GAME THAT'S
BEING PLAYED I HEAR UP IN
THE BRAMPTON AREA FOR
EXAMPLE, IS THE BOARD
DOESN'T WANT TO EVEN PASS
THROUGH THE 2 percent INCREASE
BECAUSE THEY'RE CLAIMING
THEY'RE SHORT OF FUNDS IN
OTHER PLACES BUT REALLY THE
ISSUE IS THE GAMES THAT ARE
BEING PLAYED ON BOTH SIDES.
THE REASONS BEHIND THIS ARE
LONGSTANDING.
THEY DIDN'T JUST POP-UP LAST
YEAR.
THEY DIDN'T START WITH BILL
160.
WE'VE HAD THE FEDERATIONS
FOR YEARS OPPOSING THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY, AND
OVER THE COURSE OF TIME
THEY'VE ALIENATED THE
PUBLIC.
THEY'RE NOT ON SIDE WITH THE
PUBLIC ON A LOT OF ISSUES
RELATED TO EDUCATION.
THIS GOVERNMENT HAS JUMPED
ON THAT, AND I THINK
ACTUALLY TAKEN IT QUITE TOO
FAR IN TERMS OF TEACHER
BASHING, IN SOME RESPECTS,
WITH THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE
DOING.
BUT THE TEACHERS SHOULD BE
ASKING “WHY ARE THEY GETTING
AWAY WITH THIS?
WHY IS MIKE HARRIS BEING
REFLECTED?
HOW DID WE GET TO THE POINT
WHERE WE'RE OUT OF TOUCH
WITH WHAT THE ELECTORATE
WANTS IN OUR SCHOOLS?”

Maureen says ANNIE, WHAT DO
YOU THINK?

Annie says MIKE HARRIS GOT
RE-ELECTED FOR A LOT OF
OTHER REASONS I THINK
BESIDES HIS EDUCATION
POLICIES AND I THINK MOST
PEOPLE DISAGREED WITH THE
FUNDING CUTS AND A LOT OF THE
EDUCATION POLICIES.
THEY LIKED THE STANDARDS AND
TESTING YOU NOT NECESSARILY THE
BIG CUTS AND I THINK PEOPLE
ACTUALLY ARE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE TORONTO
CATHOLIC BOARD NOW WHICH IS
ANOTHER PLACE THEY'RE WORKING TO
RULE AND SAY THEY DON'T HAVE THE
MONEY TO PASS ON THE RAISE, THE
PARENTS ARE SUPPORTING THE
TEACHERS COMPLETELY.
BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT FOR
MOST SPORTS, THEY'RE LEFT IN A
POSITION RIGHT NOW THAT IF THEY
DO GIVE THE TEACHERS THE RAISES
THAT THEY WANT, THEY'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO TAKE THE MONEY FROM
SOMEWHERE ELSE.
THE TORONTO CATHOLIC BOARD SAYS
IT HAS TO COME OUT OF TEXT
BOOKS, AND IT DOES.
THERE JUST ISN'T THE MONEY THERE
LESS FLEXIBILITY.

John says THE ANGUS REID POLL BACK IN
MAY SHOWED 58 percent THOUGHT THE TRUE
CHALLENGE IN IMPROVING PUBLIC
EDUCATION IS NOT TO SPEND MORE
BUT TO SPEND IT WISELY.
THAT'S THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO
THAT ELECTED MIKE HARRIS SO YOUR
STATEMENT THAT FUNDING WAS NOT
AN ISSUE, THAT THEY DIDN'T
SUPPORT THE FUNDING INITIATIVES
OF THE GOVERNMENT, EDUCATION, I
DON'T THINK IS SUPPORTED BY THAT
THAT.

Maureen says WHEN WAS THAT TAKEN?

John says MAY OF THIS YEAR.

Maureen says BUT WHAT CONFUSES ME
ABOUT THE BOARD SAYING WELL, IF
WE GIVE YOU TEACHERS A RAISE
IT'S GOT TO COME OUT OF THE TEXT
BOOK FUND IS THAT THERE WERE
THESE ENVELOPES IN THE FUNDING
FORMULA.
AND I THOUGHT THAT THE
GOVERNMENT MADE IT CLEAR TO
BOARDS THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING
TO BE ABLE TO TAKE MONEY FROM
ONE AREA TO GIVE TO TEACHERS.

John says THERE'S A LOT OF GAMES BEING
PLAYED ON BOTH SIDES.
AND THERE'S POLITICAL AGENDAS.
OUR KIDS ARE CAUGHT IN THE
CROSSFIRE AND SO ARE THE
CLASSROOM TEACHERS.
THEY'RE VICTIMS HERE AS WELL.
BUT IT'S BASICALLY BIG UNIONS
VERSUS BIG GOVERNMENT, AND A
LOTS OF THE -- EVEN DAVE COOK,
THE HEAD OF THE EDUCATION
IMPROVEMENT COMMISSION, WHEN HE
WENT AROUND TO THE BOARDS, YOU
KNOW HE REMARKED THERE WERE SOME
PRETTY CREATIVE THINGS BEING
DONE WITH THE FUNDING THAT WAS
COMING IN FROM QUEENS PARK.

Maureen says CREATIVE IN A BAD WAY?

John says YES!
FUNDS THAT WERE NOT GOING QUITE
WHERE THEY SHOULD BE AND THAT
WAS PART OF THE AUDIT PROCESS
THAT THE E.I.C. INSTITUTED.

Annie says WELL, IT WASN'T EXACTLY AN
AUDIT, BUT THE THING ABOUT THAT,
ALL THE ENVELOPES YOU TALK ABOUT
IS THAT IT'S ALL PART OF THE
SAME ENVELOPE SO THAT WHEN
YOU -- BOARDS THESE DAYS ARE
ALWAYS ROBBING PETER TO PAY PAUL.
YOU CAN NEVER DECIDE “WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND MORE
MONEY ON A READING PROGRAM” OR
“WE WANT TO PAY OUR TEACHERS
MORE” OR “WE WANT TO HAVE MUSIC
TEACHERS OR GYM TEACHERS OR
LIBRARIANS” WITHOUT TAKING THE
MONEY FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.
IT'S NEVER WHAT DO WE BELIEVE?
HOW ARE WE GOING TO SPEND MONEY
ON THAT?
THERE'S ALWAYS A LOSS SOMEWHERE
ELSE SO THAT MONEY NOW DOES COME
OUT OF TEXT BOOKS OR A LOT OF
BOARDS HAVE CUT LIBRARIANS, FOR
INSTANCE.
WE'RE SEEING A HUGE DECREASE IN
BOARDS WITH TEACHER LIBRARIANS
IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND THAT'S
ONE OF THE REASONS.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE
MONEY.
THEY HAVE TO USE THE MONEY FOR
JUST CLASSROOM TEACHERS.

Maureen says SALARY AND CERTAIN
ISSUES SEEM TO BE THE POINT OF
CONTENTION IN GETTING A DEAL
WITH ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS
BACK AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL,
IT'S STILL THIS “EXTRA CLASS.”
THAT TEACHERS HAVE HAD TO TAKE
ON.
AND ALSO THE THREAT OF MAKING
THEM DO EXTRA CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES.
A LOT OF SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE
EXTRA CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES, AND
YET JANET ECKER HASN'T STEPPED
IN TO LOWER THAT BOON.
WHY ISN'T SHE DOING THAT?

Annie says OH THAT -- NOW THAT ON THE
OTHER HAND I DO THINK IS A GAME.
I MEAN THERE IS A KIND OF WHO'S
GOING TO STEP FIRST GAME GOING
ON BETWEEN THE HIGH SCHOOL UNIONS
AND JANET HE CAN CAR.
I WISH SOMEBODY WOULD STEP FIRST
SO IT WOULD STOP.
THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING HURT
ARE THE STUDENTS.
THEY'RE INCREDIBLY UPSET.
THEY'RE REALLY, REALLY ANGRY.
NOBODY'S EXPLAINING TO THEM VERY
CLEARLY WHY THIS IS HAPPENING OR
WHAT'S GOING ON.
AND IT'S DEVASTATING FOR
STUDENTS.
AND THEY DON'T HAVE A WAY OF
SPEAKING OUT.
AND THAT ONE IS APPALLING.
AND SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.
AND WE'RE NOT HEARING A LOT OF
SCREAMING AND YELLING BECAUSE
IT'S ONLY AFFECTING THEM.
EVEN PARENTS -- YOU KNOW, YOUR
16-YEAR-OLD ISN'T GOING TO COME
HOME AND GO “GEE, IT'S REALLY
UPSETTING THAT I USED TO LOVE
THIS PART OF SCHOOL.”
THEY HATE SAYING THEY LOVED ANY
PART OF SCHOOL ANYWAY, BUT THEY
DON'T TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE
PROBLEM WITH NOT HAVING EXTRA
CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES AND IT'S
HUGE.

John says THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN THEY
ARE GETTING INFORMATION IN
SCHOOL ABOUT THIS CONFLICT,
THEY'RE GETTING VERY ONE-SIDED
INFORMATION.
BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF CENSURE
CENSORSHIP THAT GOES ON IN THE
SCHOOLS.
INFORMATION --

Annie says WHICH ONE SIDE ARE THEY
GETTING IT FROM?

John says THEY'RE GETTING IT FROM THE
FEDERATIONS, THE EDUCATION
ESTABLISHMENT.
ANNIE, YOUR GROUP HAS ITS
NEWSLETTERS DISTRIBUTED WITH
FEDERATION AND LITERATURE TO
SCHOOLS.
WE CAN'T DO THAT.

Annie says WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING
DISTRICTED WITH THE
FEDERATION --

John says YOU HAVE IT GO -- YOU MAY NOT
PUT IT IN WITH THE FEDERATION,
BUT IT GOES HOME WITH THE BOARD,
INFORMATION ABOUT THE ISSUES,
AND THEY ARE ALWAYS TAKING THE
FEDERATION'S SIDE.

Maureen says CAN I JUST SAY
THOUGH THAT THE STUDENTS WHO
WALKED OUT OF THE HENRY STREET
SCHOOL, WAS THAT UP IN AJAX OR
DURHAM REGION, THEY'RE VERY MUCH
AGAINST THE TEACHERS IN THIS,
JOHN.
THEY'RE SAYING I DON'T CARE WHAT
BEEFS THE TEACHER HAS WITH THE
PROVINCE, THEY'VE GOT TO BE IN
THERE.
WE WORK -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN
SCHOOL SIX HOURS A DAY --

John says WE WERE VERY GLAD TO SEE THAT
BUT THAT IS THE FIRST TIME IT'S
HAPPENED SINCE BILL 160 FIRST
SHOWED UP.
AND IT'S REALLY THE EXCEPTION
RATHER THAN THE RULE.

Maureen says SO YOU THINK THAT
KIDS' MINDS ARE BEING PLAYED
WITH SOMEHOW?

John says WELL HOW DO YOU GET KIDS
BOOING MIKE HARRIS IN FRONT OF
NELSON MANDELA AT THE SKYDOME
UNLESS THEY'VE BEEN COACHED?
BECAUSE WHEN THEY GO HOME, HALL
OF THOSE PARENTS VOTED FOR MIKE
HARRIS IN AN ELECTION A FEW
MONTHS LATER SO THE KIDS HAVE
BEEN COACHED TO TAKE POSITIONS
CONTRARY TO WHAT THEIR PARENTS
BELIEVE.
THAT'S ETHICAL?!

Annie says I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR
CASE, I MEAN, ALL THE KIDS KNOW
IS THEY NO LONGER HAVE MUSIC
PROGRAMMES ARE CANCELLED, THEY
CAN'T BE -- YOU KNOW, THEIR
FOOTBALL TEAMS ARE NOT
HAPPENING.
THAT'S ALL THEY KNOW.
TEACHERS, I DON'T THINK -- I
THINK TEACHERS ARE ACTUALLY
DOING A TERRIBLE JOB EXPLAINING
TO ANYBODY WHY THOSE THINGS
AREN'T IN SCHOOLS.
KIDS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING
ON.

John says THAT'S BECAUSE THERE'S NO
GOOD REASON FOR IT.

Annie says I'VE TALKED TO A LOT --
WELL, I MEAN, THE REASONS THAT
THE TEACHERS DO HAVE TO TEACH AN
EXTRA CLASS, THEY HAVE MORE KIDS
TO --

John says TO GET THEM UP TO THE
NATIONAL AVERAGE.

Annie says AN ADVISORY PROGRAMME -- NOT
NECESSARILY, BECAUSE YOU CAN
COUNT YOUR AVERAGES IN DIFFERENT
WAYS BUT THE TEACHERS OFFERED TO
TEACH MORE TIME.
THEY OFFERED TO TEACH LONGER
DAYS.

Maureen says LONGER DAYS AND THE
PROVINCE TURNED THAT DOWN.

Annie says AND THE PROVINCE TURNED THAT DOWN.

John says IT WASN'T WORKABLE IN A
SEMESTERED SYSTEM AND THAT'S
PART OF THE PROBLEM.
WE'RE LOOKING HERE TODAY, I
UNDERSTAND, AT SOLUTIONS TO
THIS.
AND ONE OF THEM WOULD BE THINGS
LIKE CHANGING THE WAY
HIGH SCHOOLS ARE SCHEDULED SO
THAT SEMESTERING ISN'T THE
PROBLEM.

Maureen says LET'S TAKE SOME
CALLS AND FIND OUT WHAT VIEWERS
THINK.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TEACHER
TURMOIL IN THE SCHOOLS AGAIN.
WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK
ABOUT IT AND WE WOULD REALLY
LIKE TO COME UP WITH SOME
SOLUTIONS TODAY.
SO GIVE US A CALL AT
416-484-2727.
IF IT'S LONG DISTANCE, DIAL 1-888-411-1234.
AND TAMMY IS IN YORK.
HI TAMMY.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI.
I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I
THINK IT'S REALLY SAD THAT
THEY'RE ON STRIKE AGAIN.
NOT SAD FOR THE TEACHERS,
BUT SAD FOR THE STUDENTS WHO
ARE SUFFERING.
AND ALSO I THINK, YOU KNOW,
IF TEACHERS REALLY DO LOVE
THEIR JOB, I DON'T
UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULD GO
ON STRIKE.
BECAUSE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO
BE THERE FOR THE LOVE OF THE
JOB AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND ANOTHER THING I'D LIKE
TO SAY IS THAT MY HUSBAND
HASN'T HAD A RAISE IN
LIKE -- OH, GOD, I CAN'T
EVEN REMEMBER WHEN, AND I
DON'T SEE HIM GOING ON
STRIKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY HE
GETS.
I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S
RIGHT.

Maureen says SO YOU DON'T SEE
A PROBLEM WITH GOING SEVEN
YEARS WITHOUT A RAISE AND
NOW BEING OFFERED --

The Caller says OH, NO, NO.
I DO SEE A PROBLEM GOING
SEVEN YEARS WITHOUT A RAISE.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT
EITHER.
AND MEANWHILE YOU HEAR OF
ALL THESE CORPORATIONS,
INCLUDING THE GOVERNMENT,
YOU KNOW LIKE PETRO CANADA
AND BANKS AND SO ON AND SO
ON, RAKING IN BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS AND NOBODY GETTING A
RAISE, SURE, I SEE A PROBLEM
WITH THAT.
HOWEVER, STRIKING AT THE
EXPENSE OF CHILDREN I DON'T
THINK IS A WAY OUT.

Maureen says OKAY, ANNIE?

Annie says WELL I MEAN THEY'RE
ACTUALLY NOT ON STRIKE,
THEY'RE ACTUALLY LOCKED OUT.

Maureen says BUT THEY'RE IN A
STRIKE POSITION.

Annie says WELL EVERYBODY'S IN A
STRIKE POSITION.
I THINK THERE PROBABLY ISN'T
A TEACHER'S UNION ACROSS THE
PROVINCE THAT ISN'T IN A
STRIKE POSITION AT THIS
POINT.
IT'S HARD.
I MEAN I'VE GONE THROUGH TWO
NOW AND I NEVER WANT TO GO
THROUGH ANOTHER ONE.
IT'S JUST AWFUL.
IT'S AWFUL FOR KIDS.
IT'S HORRIBLE BECAUSE IT
MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE THE
SYSTEM'S NOT SAFE AND IT'S
NOT STABLE, AND YOU REALLY
DO WANT A SENSE FOR YOUR
KIDS, WHEN YOU SEND THEM TO
SCHOOL, TO FEEL LIKE THIS IS
A REALLY SECURE PLACE WHERE
THERE ARE GROWN-UPS Ruining
IT AND THEY KNOW WHAT
THEY'RE DOING AND IT DOESN'T
FEEL LIKE THAT WHEN THERE'S
ALL THIS CHAOS AND PEOPLE
EITHER IN STRIKE POSITIONS
OR BEING LOCKED OUT.
BUT I ALSO KNOW FOR TEACHERS
WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
I FEEL LIKE AT THIS POINT
THE AMOUNT OF DENIGRATION OF
TEACHERS, BESIDES NOT PAYING
THEM, ALL OF THE KIND OF --
THIS SORT OF CAMPAIGN
AGAINST TEACHERS THAT'S GONE
ON OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS,
I'M NOT SURE -- AND I REALLY
DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
SOLUTION IS.
WHAT WE THINK TEACHERS
SHOULD DO WHEN THEY EITHER
WANT A PAY INCREASE OR THEY
FEEL THAT THERE ARE -- YOU
KNOW, SOMEHOW THEIR JOB
DESCRIPTION'S BEEN CHANGED
IN A WAY, THAT THEY DON'T
LIKE IT.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT'S OPEN TO
THEM.

John says THERE'S A VERY SIMPLE
THING THEY CAN DO TO START
AND THAT'S TO STOP
ANTAGONIZING THE GOVERNMENT
OF THE DAY.
THE FEDERATIONS HAVE TAKEN
A VARIAL POSITIONS WITH
EVERY GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY
SINCE 1986.
THEY PUT A BIG TARGET SIGN
ON THEIR CHEST, AND THEN
THEY WONDER HOW COME THEY'RE
GETTING SHOT AT.
I MEAN, THEY'VE GOT TO WAKE
UP AND REALIZE THAT -- THE
FEDERATION LEADERSHIP THEY
PUT IN PLACE SHOULD BE MORE
MODERATE.
SHOULD BE LISTENING FAR
BETTER TO WHAT THE PUBLIC IS
TELLING IT.
WHAT IT WANTS FROM OUR
SCHOOLS.
INSTEAD OF SAYING YOU'RE NOT
QUALIFIED TO AND, YOU'RE NOT
QUALIFIED TO JUDGE, PEOPLE
ARE JUST SAYING FORGET IT.
THOSE ARE OUR TAXPAYERS
GOING INTO THOSE SCHOOLS, WE
ARE GOING TO HAVE A SAY.
WE'LL HAVE A SAY IN THE
BALLOT-BOX.
IT'S TIME THAT THE TEACHERS
STARTED RESPECTING
DEMOCRACY.

Maureen says SO DO THEY JUST
NOW -- AND I'VE OFTEN
WONDERED, TOO, WHY THEY
KEEP -- THEY HAVEN'T GIVEN
UP.
THEY'RE MAD AT THE
GOVERNMENT AND THEY DO KEEP
FIGHTING AND THEY GO OUT ON
STRIKE AND THEY'RE LOSING
MONEY EVERY TIME THEY DO IT.
I MEAN, NINE OUR HOUSEHOLD
THAT WOULD BE HARD TO GO
WITHOUT PAY FOR TWO WEEKS OR
THREE WEEKS OR FOUR WEEKS.
JOHN, IS THAT BECAUSE THEY
REALLY BELIEVE IN WHAT
THEY'RE DOING?
ISN'T IT BECAUSE THEY JUST
CAN'T TAKE THIS?

John says I THINK, ACTUALLY, IT'S
GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE
THEY PROBABLY CAN'T TAKE IT.
BUT YOU HAVE TO KIND OF ASK
YOURSELF HOW DID WE GET
HERE?
YOU SEE, IT'S A CIRCULAR
SITUATION IN THAT THE
GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE IT FEELS
IT CAN DO ANYTHING THAT'S
ANTI-TEACHER AND GET AWAY
WITH IT BECAUSE IT BOOSTS
ITS RATINGS IS DOING THINGS!
THEY REALLY ARE VERY
HEAVY-HANDED.
THAT DRIVES THE TEACHERS
INTO THE ARMS OF THE FED
RAIGS, AND MEANWHILE THAT
KIND OF CONDONES THE VERY
MILITANT AGENDA OF THE
FEDERATION LEADERS.
IT'S A VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL
SET-UP.

Maureen says DO YOU THINK
THERE IS ANY PARENT SUPPORT
FOR TEACHERS OUT THERE,
ANNIE?
YOU WOULD BE THE CATALYST
FOR IT.

Annie says OH, I THINK THAT THERE'S
REALLY -- WE SAW IT IN THE
BILL 160.
IN THE POLLS THERE WAS HUGE
SUPPORT FOR THE TEACHERS.

Maureen says AND THEN HE GOT
RE-ELECTED --

Annie says I KNOW, BUT THE THING IS
SHOULD-I THINK IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT TO DIVIDE -- WE
GOT TOLD OVER AND OVER THIS
IS NOT AN ELECTION ABOUT
ISSUE, IT'S ABOUT
LEADERSHIP.
YOU KNOW, THAT PEOPLE SAID
THAT EVEN THOUGH -- AND
NOTWITHSTANDING THE ANGUS
REID POLL WHICH YOU KNOW,
HAS A FEW QUESTIONABLE
THINGS IN IT, BUT ANYWAY,
THAT WHEN IT CAME DOWN TO
ISSUES, WHEN YOU ACTUALLY
TALKED ABOUT VARIOUS ISSUES,
THERE WAS A LOT OF
DISCONTENT BUT IN THE
ELECTION, BECAUSE IT WAS AN
ELECTION ABOUT LEADERSHIP,
IT WAS DECIDED, THEN HE DID
GET RE-ELECTED.
I'M NOT DENYING THE
RE-ELECTION BUT I DON'T
THINK THE RE-ELECTION WAS
NECESSARILY ON THE EDUCATION
APPROXIMATELY CEASE.

John says YOU YOU SEE, ANNIE'S
RESPONSE RIGHT THERE IS
EXACTLY WHAT'S WRONG WITH
THE SYSTEM.
PARENTS, PARENTS -- YOU SEE,
YOU'RE SAYING THERE WASN'T
SUPPORT FOR THE HARRIS
EDUCATION AGENDA.
91 percent APPROVED OF THE NEW CODE
OF CONDUCT.
86 percent STANDARDIZED PROVINCIAL
TESTING, WHICH THE
FEDERATIONS HAVE OPPOSED
VERY VEHEMENTLY.
AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS
WAS ONE QUESTIONABLE POLL.
JOHN WRIGHT FROM ANGUS REID
STOOD UP AT THE E.I.C.
CONFERENCE IN MAY --

Annie says I HEARD IT.

John says -- AND TOLD US HOW 15
YEARS OF POLLS SUPPORTED
THIS.

Maureen says BUT IF YOU AND
THE AVERAGE PERSON TODAY,
VOTER IN ONTARIO, “DO YOU
THINK THE HARRIS GOVERNMENT
HAS...” I DON'T KNOW HOW I'D
PHRASE IT.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO
PHRASE IT PROPERLY, BUT DO
YOU THINK THEY'VE WAGED A
PUBLIC CAMPAIGN AGAINST
TEACHERS?
OR MAYBE HAVE THEY GONE TOO
FAR IN THEIR BATTLE, DON'T
YOU THINK YOU'D GET A YES?

John says THEY WOULD PROBABLY SAY
YES, du THEY STILL MIGHT
VOTE FOR HARRIS BECAUSE THEY
DON'T THINK THE
FEDERATION --

Annie says I THINK IT'S VERY
IMPORTANT -- I DON'T THINK
THAT VOTING FOR HARRIS IS A
VOTE AGAINST TEACHERS.
THEY LIKED TAX CUTS, A LOT
OF THE OTHER ECONOMIC
POLICIES.
I THINK TO SAY THIS WAS AN
ELECTION BASED ON EDUCATION,
IT WAS NOT AT ALL.
SO --

John says WHUN IT WAS MISSING
THOUGH?
IT WAS THE WORD
ACCOUNTABILITY.
THE ELECTORATE WANTED
ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE
EDUCATION SYSTEM AND THAT'S
WHAT THEY VOTED WITH HARRIS.

Maureen says LET'S SEE IF
LOIS THINKS THEY GOT IT.
LOW WIS IN RENFREW.

The Caller says HELLO.

Maureen says LOW LOIS, WHAT
DO YOU THINK?

The Caller says ONE OF THE THINGS
I'M HEARING HERE, AND THAT I
AGREE WITH TO A CERTAIN
EXTENT IS THAT THE UNIONS
HAVE TRADITIONALLY BEEN
FAIRLY INTRANSIGENT IN THEIR
POSITIONING.
HOWEVER I THINK A CHANGE
HAPPENED WITHIN THE UNION.
MY SENSE OF IT IS -- I'M
NEITHER A TEACHER NOR IN A
UNION -- WITH THE HARRIS,
THE ORIGINAL HARRIS BILL,
AND OF COURSE WITH BILL 74,
THE WHOLE BUSINESS BECOMES
NOT A MATTER OF A
CO-INSTRUCTIONAL ACTIVITIES
OR ANYTHING, I THINK THE
WHOLE THING BOILS DOWN TO,
UM, THE MINISTER'S
JURISDICTION IS TO QUOTE
“NOT OPEN TO QUESTION OR
REVIEW IN ANY PROCEEDING OR
BY ANY COURT.”
THIS IS SCARY STUFF.
THE TEACHERS KNOW IT'S SCARY,
THE REST OF US SHOULD KNOW
IT'S SCARY AS WELL, BECAUSE
IF A MINISTER DULY ELECTED
CAN PUT HERSELF OR HIMSELF
ABOVE THE LAW, IT ISN'T JUST
TEACHERS THAT ARE BEING --

Maureen says ARE YOU
READING -- IS THAT FROM BILL 168?

The Caller says YEAH.

John says BUT YOU SEE THAT WORDING
WAS NOT BROUGHT INTO ONTARIO
THROUGH BILL 160.
IT WAS IN THE EDUCATION ACT
OF 1935.
THE ONLY REASON IT WAS IN
BILL 160 IS BECAUSE POWERS
WERE TAKEN FROM THE
SCHOOLBOARDS AND PUT INTO
THE MINISTRY.
AND IN MOST CASES, IT REFERS
TO COMPLETE DERELICTION OF
DUTY ON THE PART OF THE
TRUSTEES.

Annie says BUT NOT IN BILL 74.
THEN IN BILL 74 THOSE POWERS
WERE MADE EVEN MORE
EXTREMELY, SORT OF IN THE
HANDS OF THE MINISTER, NOT
IN THE HANDS OF THE PROVINCE
BUT IN THE HAND OF THE
MINISTER TO MAKE SURE THERE
WERE NO REBELLIONS AS THERE
HAD BEEN BY THE WINDSOR
BOARD.
WHAT WE SEE NOW --

John says WHAT THEY DO IN WINDSOR?
YOU SAY THEY WERE --

Annie says -- BUT WE'VE CENTRALIZED
POWER SO MUCH IN THE -- AND
ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S SO
HARD TO NEGOTIATE OR TO
SETTLE THINGS WHATEVER WAY
YOU WANT IN YOUR OWN BOARD
IS THAT IT'S ALL RUN
COMPLETELY FROM QUEENS PARK
NOW BECAUSE OF THESE BILLS.

Maureen says I READ IN THE
“GLOBE AND MAIL” SO, IT MUST
BE TRUE THAT WHAT HAPPENED
IN WINDSOR WAS THE
GOVERNMENT FOUND SOME EXTRA
MONEY, GAVE IT TO THAT BOARD,
IT WAS EXACTLY THE.
A MONEY THE BOARD HAD SAID
IT WAS GOING TO BE IN A
DEFICIT, AND ONCE THEY GAVE
THEM THE MONEY, THE BOARD
JUST SHUT UP.
SO THERE WASN'T A PRINCIPLE
AT ALL ON THE PART OF THOSE
TRUST TEASE, WHICH HE GUESS
SOME MAYBE YOUR GROUP IS
HOPING THEY WOULD CARRY
THROUGH AND SEE IF SHE'D PUT
THEM IN JAIL --

Annie says NOBODY'S EVER GOING TO GO
TO JAIL.
THAT'S SUCH AN EXAGGERATION.
ALL THE BOARD HAS TO DO IS
EITHER RESIGN, SAY WE'RE
PASSING THIS DEFICIT BUDGET.
ALL THAT THE MINISTER CAN DO
IS TAKE OVER THE BOARD.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THESE PEOPLE
GO TO JAIL FOR DOING THIS.

Maureen says WHAT ABOUT FOR
NOT DOING EXTRA CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES?

Annie says WELL THE THING IS THAT'S
THE MOST HILARIOUS PART --
WHEN YOU READ THE EXTRA
CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES WHICH
says ANY TIME OF ANY DAY IN
THE SCHOOL YEAR ON SCHOOL
PROPERTY OR NOT --

Maureen says WHAT THAT A
TEACHER MUST BE AVAILABLE TO
WORK --

Annie says IF THE PRINCIPAL SAYS TO
YOU THESE ARE THE EXTRA
CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES YOU
HAVE TO DO, THEN YOU HAVE TO
DO THEM.

John says KEEP IN MIND THAT WAS
BROUGHT IN AS A THREAT, AS A
STOP-GAP IN CASE THE UNIONS
USED IT AS A BARGAINING --

Maureen says WHICH THEY'RE
DOING.

Annie says IT'S THE ONLY TOOL THEY
HAVE BESIDES GOING ON STRIKE,
AND PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT
WHEN THEY GO ON STRIKE SO
THEY USE EXTRA CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES.

John says BUT THAT'S A GOOD THING
TO DO.
THAT'S LOOKING AFTER THE
KIDS, ISN'T IT?

Annie says BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING IS
IT SAYS IF THEY DON'T
PERFORM THE EXTRA CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES THEY'LL BE
CONSIDERED ON STRIKE.
AND I KEEP ASKING PEOPLE BUT
NOBODY HAS THE ANSWER SO
THAT MEANS THEY CAN BE
TEACHING ALL DAY BUT THEY'LL
BE ON STRIKE BECAUSE THEY'RE
NOT COACHING THE FOOTBALL
TEAM.

Maureen says THEY WON'T GET
PAID.

Annie says I DON'T KNOW.

Maureen says IF YOU'RE JUST
TUNING IN, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT TEACHER TURMOIL IN THE
EDUCATION SYSTEM ONCE AGAIN.
WE'D LIKE TO KNOW IF YOU'RE
TIRED OF IT, FIRST OF ALL,
AND IF YOU ARE, WHAT DO YOU
THINK THE SOLUTION IS?

The phone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Maureen says AND JOANNE IN
MISSISSAUGA SAYS “I HAVE TO
AGREE WITH JOHN.
THERE ARE A LOT OF GAMES
BEING PLAYED AND MORE AND
MORE PARENTS ARE BECOMING
AWARE, AND THAT'S ONE REASON
FOR THE WANING SUPPORT.
I BLAME THE BOARD.
I THINK THEY ARE THE QUIET,
MIDDLEMEN, LETTING THE
GOVERNMENT AND THE TEACHERS
FIGHT IT OUT.
ONE EXAMPLE OF GAMES BEING
PLAYED AT OUR SCHOOL AND
OTHERS IS THE THROWING OUT
AT THE END OF THE YEAR OF
EXCESS SCHOOL SUPPLIES.
THE STOCKROOMS ARE PACKED,
BUT GOD FORBID YOU CARRY
OVER TO THE NEXT YEAR, THEN
YOU WOULDN'T NEED YOUR FULL
SUPPLY BUDGET.
WHILE WE PARENTS WERE
CLEANING UP THE PEACE GARDEN,
WE WATCHED IT HAPPEN AT THE
END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.”

Annie says I FIND THAT VERY --
CERTAINLY NOT AT MY KIDS'
SCHOOL IS ANYTHING THROWN
OUT.
MY KIDS HAVE HALF NOTEBOOKS
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WASTE
PAPER.

Maureen says I WAS TALKING TO
A VICE-PRINCIPAL WHO SAID
THEY HAD ALREADY RUN THROUGH
THEIR PAPER BUDGET AND THE
TEACHERS WERE GOING TO HAVE
TO GO OUT AND BUY PAPER FOR
THE SCHOOL OR THERE WOULD BE
NO MORE COPIES MADE.

John says BUT THE PERSON THAT CAME
IN ON THE E-MAIL THERE IS RIGHT.
WHETHER OR NOT IT'S THE
SUPPLIES BEING MANIPULATED
AT EVERY SCHOOL -- WHICH
ISN'T THE CASE -- THERE ARE
GAMES STILL BEING PLAYED.
AND NOT BY NECESSARILY ALL
BOARDS, BUT ENOUGH BOARDS
THAT REALLY THAT WAS REALLY
THE IMPETUS BEHIND BILL 74,
WAS WHEN 160 WAS IMPLEMENTED,
AND THEN THE BOARD STARTED
GETTING CREATIVE IN THE WAYS
THAT THEY BROUGHT IT INTO
THEIR OWN AREAS, THE
GOVERNMENT SAID “WHOA, WE
DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WAS
THIS LOOPHOLE POLE HERE AND
THIS LOOPHOLE HERE AND THIS
ONE HERE, AND BY THE WAY
THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO
FORM SOME LABOUR UNREST, SO
LET'S BRING IN THE EXTRA
CURRICULAR PROVISIONS.”

Annie says YOU MAKE IT SOUNDS SO BENIGN.

John says IT'S REALLY A
DYSFUNCTIONAL SYSTEM ON BOTH
SIDES.
IT'S TWO BIG BODIES FIGHTING
IT OUT WITH THE KIDS IN THE
MIDDLE.
AND THE TEACHERS.
THE CLASSROOM TEACHERS.

Maureen says GRANT IS IN
St. CATHARINES.
HI GRANT.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI, WE'RE FINE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The Caller says JUST TO MAKE A
FIRST POINT, MY WIFE IS A
PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER, AND
I'M GOING THROUGH SCHOOL TO
BECOME A HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER,
AND I VOTED WITH THAT IN
MIND, I VOTED FOR MIKE
HARRIS, AND I BELIEVE THAT
THE EDUCATION SYSTEM NEEDED
TO BE OVERHAULED.
I THINK THAT ONE OF THE
PROBLEMS IS THAT -- I FIND
THAT WHEN I TALK TO TEACHERS,
AND MY WIFE TALKS TO
TEACHERS, IT SEEMS LIKE THE
PROBLEM IS A LOT OF THE
OLDER TEACHERS ARE HAVING A
PROBLEM WITH THIS.
AND A LOT OF THE YOUNG
TEACHERS, LIKE MY WIFE AND
FRIENDS OF OURS, THEY DON'T
SEEM TO HAVE ANY PROBLEM
WITH THIS WHATSOEVER,
BECAUSE THEY REALIZE THAT
CHANGE HAS TO TAKE PLACE.
THEY REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE
TO ADAPT, AND IT JUST SEEMS
LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF THE
OLDER TEACHERS WHO ARE
FIGHTING THIS NOW ANOTHER
THING IS THE WHOLE WORK TO
RULE, I THINK THEY HAVE A
CONTRACT.
IT'S CHILDISH OF THEM NOT TO
HELP THE KIDS AFTER SCHOOL.
AND THEY SHOULD HONOUR THAT.
AND THE EXTRA 20 MINUTES A
DAY, YOU KNOW, THE EXTRA
TEACHING OF 20 MINUTES A DAY,
I THINK THAT IS NOT
UNREASONABLE BY ANY MEANS --

Maureen says OKAY, LET'S STOP
RIGHT THERE.
THIS 20 MINUTES A DAY.

Annie says IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT
IT'S NOT ABOUT 20 MINUTES.
THE TEACHERS -- ALL THE
TEACHERS OFFERED TO TEACH
LONGER.
THEY OFFERED TO TEACH FOR A
LONGER DAY, THEY OFFERED TO
MAKE EACH CLASS LONGER IN
ORDER TO MAKE -- IF THE
POINT WAS TO HAVE KIDS HAVE
MORE TIME IN THE CLASSROOM,
THAT WAS OFFERED.
THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF
THIS.
IT'S NOT ABOUT TIME.
IT'S ABOUT TEACHING AN EXTRA
CLASS, BECAUSE THEN YOU NEED
FEWER TEACHERS.

Maureen says HOW LONG IS AN
EXTRA CLASS?
40 OR 50 MINUTES, OR AN HOUR
FOR SOME TEACHERS.

Annie says BUT IT'S AN EXTRA HALF A
CLASS SO, WHAT HAPPENS --
IT'S ALSO EVEN ORGANIZING
THAT WHICH IS ACTUALLY MORE
IMPOSSIBLE IN SEMESTERED
SCHOOLS.
THE PROBLEM THEN IS THERE
WERE KIDS IN DURHAM LAST
YEAR WHO HAD TWO OR THREE OR
FOUR SOMETIMES TEACHERS FOR
ONE CLASS.
SO THAT THERE IS -- YOU KNOW,
THAT'S THE SORT OF OTHER
PART OF THE PROBLEM.
I WANT TO GO BACK FOR A
SECOND TO THE THING ABOUT
OLDER TEACHERS AND ABOUT
WHAT JOHN'S SAYING, BECAUSE
I THINK THAT YOU'RE RIGHT IN
ONE WAY, AND I THINK THAT
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO
ACKNOWLEDGE AS A PARENT THE
KIND OF -- THE PROBLEM THAT
HAPPENS WHEN YOU END UP IN
THIS KIND OF POLARIZED WAR
WHERE YOU END UP WITH THIS
VERY DEFENSIVE GROUP GOING
“EVERYTHING'S FINE, NOTHING
SHOULD CHANGE, THE WHOLE
SYSTEM'S PERFECT” AND YOU'RE
A PARENT, AND YOU'RE A
PARENT, AND WE KNOW THINGS
AREN'T PERFECT, AND THINGS
DID HAVE TO CHANGE.
AND THERE WAS -- CHANGE WAS
ALREADY MOVING THROUGH.
THE NDP DID START A LOT OF
THESE CHANGES.
AND THAT CHANGE WAS ALREADY
HAPPENING AND SHOULD HAVE
BEEN HAPPENING, AND THERE
WAS A LOT OF RESISTANCE TO
IT.
AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
THAT THAT BE ACKNOWLEDGED.
AND NOBODY HERE IS -- I'M
CERTAINLY NOT SAYING THAT
TEACHERS HAVE BEEN FABULOUS
IN THIS, BUT AT THE SAME
TIME IT'S WHEN IT GETS
PUSHED BEYOND THAT TO A KIND
OF -- YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF
POWER BATTLE PUSHING DOWN,
THAT THEN YOU END UP WITH
THE TEACHERS TRYING TO -- I
MEAN, TEACHERS NOW ARE SO
DEPRESSED, SO DISHEARTENED
THAT IT'S AWFUL.
I HAVE A KID IN GRADE THREE
AND I WISH SHE DIDN'T HAVE
TO GO THROUGH THIS.
I MEAN I HOPE THAT THINGS
GET BETTER BECAUSE IT IS
REALLY AWFUL WHEN YOU SEND
YOUR KIDS TO SCHOOL --

Maureen says YOU MUST BE
SOMEWHAT GLAD JOHN THAT YOUR
KIDS ARE OUT OF THE PUBLIC
SYSTEM NOW AND INTO
UNIVERSITY.

John says YES, I AM.
YES, I AM.
NOW, BUT AT THE SAME TIME,
I'M NOT SO SURE THAT ALL OF
THAT WAS THE GOVERNMENT
TAKING IT, YOU KNOW, ONE
STEP TOO FAR.
AGAIN, I'M SORRY TO SOUND
THE SAME NOTE, BUT THE
FEDERATIONS HAVE BEEN
OPPOSED TO A LOT OF THE
REFORMS.
AND YES, AND YES THE NDP
STARTED THING, BUT THEY --
THINGS WERE MOVING VERY,
VERY, VERY SLOWLY.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE
A LOT OF CATCH-UP.
ONTARIO'S EDUCATION
ESTABLISHMENT WAS THE MOST
POWERFUL OF ANY JURISDICTION
THAT I KNOW OF IN NORTH
AMERICA.
I MEAN, WE HAD GRADE 13,
WHICH WAS REALLY A JOB
CREATION PROGRAMME.
THERE WAS NO NEED FOR IT.
THERE WAS KIND OF A VERY
PAROCHIAL MINDSET ABOUT
PROGRAMMES THAT ARE
DEVELOPED OUTSIDE THE
PROVINCE, LIKE THE
INTERNATIONAL BACCALAUREATE
PROGRAMME, WHICH IS
AVAILABLE ALL AROUND CANADA
BUT NOT VERY MUCH IN
ONTARIO.
IT HASN'T BEEN IN UNTIL A
COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, SO
THERE WAS A LOT MORE
CATCHING-UP THAT HAD TO BE
DONE IN ONTARIO.
AND MIKE HARRIS, HE'S GOT
THE REALITY OF A FOUR-YEAR
MANDATE TO DO THINGS.
AND THAT'S WHY THINGS HAD TO
MOVIE QUICKLY.

Annie says BUT THE THING IS --

John says IF THE TEACHERS HAD
ACCEPTED THAT --

Annie says BUT THE THING IS FOR ME
AS A PARENT, NOT AS A
TEACHER AND THE TEACHERS CAN
FIGHT THEIR OWN BATTLES, AS
A PARENT I CAN SEE THE NEED
FOR CHANGE, BUT WHAT WAS
REALLY HARD TO STILL
UNDERSTAND THOUGH IS THE
NEED TO CUT A BILLION
DOLLARS OUT OF THE SYSTEM,
IS THE NEED FOR BOARDS TO GO
WITHOUT, KIDS TO GO WITHOUT
LIBRARIANS.
FOR MY KID NOT TO BE ABLE TO
HAVE A READING PROGRAMME
ANYMORE BECAUSE IT'S BEING
CUT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT FUNDED
UNDER THE BYLAW FORMULA.

Maureen says THEY CUT THE
MUSIC PROGRAMME AT MY SCHOOL.

Annie says MUSIC TEACHERS ARE GOING
EVERYWHERE, PHYS-ED TEACHERS.
THAT'S WHAT I HAVE A HARD
TIME UNDERSTANDING.
I WISH MY KID IN GRADE EIGHT
COULD SPELL BETTER IN
ENGLISH AND NEW HER
TYPESTABLES AND I THINK
THOSE THINGS HAVE CHANGED A
LOT IN THE LAST NINE YEARS.

John says AND WITH ALL THOSE CUTS,
WITH ALL THOSE CUTS ONTARIO
STILL SPEND PER STUDENT A
VERY HEALTHY AMOUNT.

Annie says BUT IT'S A -- IT'S A LOT
LESS THAN A LOT OF OTHER
PLACES, AND WE'RE --

John says NOT REALLY.
IT'S QUITE HIGH IN CANADA,
COMPARED TO THE OTHER
JURISDICTIONS IN CANADA IT'S
QUITE HIGH.

Maureen says ARE YOU SAYING
IT'S OKAY TO HAVE PEOPLE NOT
TO HELP WITH READING AND --

John says NO, AGAIN IT COMES BACK
TO THE GAMES BEING PLAYED.
IN MANY CASES CUTS ARE BEING
MADE WHERE THEY'RE MOST
VISIBLE, HURT THE MOST --

Annie says WHERE SHOULD THE CUTS BE
MADE THEN?

John says PERSONALLY I THINK THE
MINISTRY OF EDUCATION IS A
VERY GOOD PLACE TO START AND
BOARD OFFICES PROBABLY STILL
HAVE SOME SLACK.

Annie says NO, BUT I MEAN IN
TORONTO RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE
CUTS -- BECAUSE THERE HAVE
BEEN SO MANY CUTS TO
ADMINISTRATION, THERE'S
NOBODY, FOR INSTANCE, TO RUN
MUSIC PROGRAMMES FROM THE
BOARD.
SO YOU CAN'T HAVE ALL CITY
BAND ANYMORE.
YOU CAN'T HAVE -- THERE'S
NO -- THERE ARE NO CONSULTANTS
LEFT, NO COORDINATORS LEFT.

Maureen says I THINK
CHRISTINE WANTS TO TALK
ABOUT THIS, SHE'S IN MARTIN.

Annie says SORRY.

Maureen says HI, CHRISTINE?

The Caller says HI, HOW ARE YOU?

Maureen says GREAT, THANKS.

The Caller says GOOD.
I ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR SHOW.

Maureen says THANKS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IN THIS CASE?

The Caller says WELL, I WANT TO
SAY A COUPLE OF POINTS.
IN THE LAST ELECTION, IF YOU
LOOK AT JOHN'S POINT ABOUT
PEOPLE VOTING FOR HARRIS AND
CHANGES IN GOVERNMENT,
THERE'S ONLY 17 percent OF THE
POPULATION THAT HAS THEIR
KIDS IN SCHOOL AND
SCHOOL-AGED KIDS IN
HIGH SCHOOL, SO YOU HAVE TO
KEEP THAT IN MIND.
THE SECOND THING I WANT TO
SAY IS 60 percent OF THE POPULATION
OF ONTARIO DID NOT VOTE FOR
MIKE HARRIS IF YOU GO BY
POPULAR VOTE.
IT WAS ONLY 40 percent OF THE
POPULATION VOTED FOR MIKE
HARRIS, 60 percent VOTED AGAINST
HIM.
NOW, THE OTHER POINT I WANT
TO MAKE IS THAT I KNOW FOR A
FACT, WHEN I GO INTO MY
DAUGHTER'S SCHOOL, SHE'S IN
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN A
CATHOLIC SCHOOL IN MARKHAM,
THERE IS NO MUSIC TEACHER.
THERE USED TO BE MUSIC
TEACHER, THERE'S NO MUSIC
TEACHER.
NOW SHE HAS LIBRARY EVERY
TWO WEEKS.
THERE'S A HALF-TIME LIBRARY.
IT'S JUST DISGRACEFUL.

Maureen says JOHN'S POINT IS
YOUR CHILD WOULD HAVE A
MUSIC TEACHER IF THE BOARD
MADE THAT A PRIORITY, BUT
INSTEAD THEY'VE MADE THEIR
BOARD OFFICE A PRIORITY OR
WHO KNOWS WHAT.
HE'S SAYING THE BOARD MADE
THAT DECISION, IT WAS THE
WRONG ONE.

The Caller says I THINK QUITE
FRANKLY THE BOARDS HAVE GOT
THEIR HANDS TIED BEHIND
THEIR BACK.
THEY NO LONGER HAVE THE
POWER OF TAXATION, AS THEY
DID BEFORE.
IT'S ALL CENTRALIZED, AND
THE MINISTRY, THE MINISTRY
GIVES THEM CERTAIN ENVELOPES
IN WHICH, IN ORDER TO PAY
FOR THEIR BUDGETS, AND
THEY'RE STRAPPED.
THEY CANNOT MOVE MONEY FROM
ONE ENVELOPE TO THE OTHER.
THEY'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THEY
CANNOT DO THAT, AND I'D LIKE
TO KNOW IN A BOOMING ECONOMY,
WHERE THE GOVERNMENT CAN
AFFORD TO GIVE A 200 dollars CHEQUE
TO EVERYBODY, WHY ARE WE
HAVING CUTS TO EDUCATION AT ALL?!
I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!
WE'RE IN A BOOMING ECONOMY.
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN
THERE'S A RECESSION?!

Maureen says I WOULD THINK
THE CUTS HAVE BEEN OVER.
I MEAN THE BILLION DOLLARS
THEY TOOK OUT, THEY TOOK OUT
QUITE A WHILE AGO.

Annie says BUT THE THING IS WE'RE
STILL NOT CATCHING UP WITH
THE INCREASED PUPIL
ENROLLMENT SO THEY'RE
ACTUALLY STILL -- I MEAN
PART OF BILL 74 IS A CUT
BECAUSE WHEN YOU ASK
TEACHERS TO TEACH AN EXTRA
CLASS, YOU NEED FEWER TEACH
HE ISERS SO THERE'S ACTUALLY
STILL ANOTHER CUT HAPPENING
THERE.
AND THE THING ABOUT BOARD
ADMINISTRATION ABOUT --
THERE IS A LAW NOW.
YOU CAN ONLY SPEND 3 percent.
THAT'S ALL YOU CAN SPEND AND
YOU CAN'T SPEND MORE THAN
THAT.
SO THAT THERE IS NOTHING --
I DON'T KNOW WHERE ELSE
HE --

Maureen says THE FAT IS?

Annie says THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE FOR
IT TO COME FROM?
AND WE'VE BEEN TRACKING
ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.
AND IN THE LAST THREE YEARS
WE SEE 10 percent FEWER SCHOOLS
HAVE FULL-TIME PRINCIPALS,
24 percent CUT IN E.S.L. PROGRAMMES
IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS,
LIBRARIANS -- WE NOW HAVE A
THIRD OF THE LIBRARIES THAT
ARE ONLY OPEN PART TIME IN
ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.
THESE ARE CHANGES JUST IN
THREE YEARS.

John says YOU'RE MAKING IT SOUND AS
THOUGH ASKING FOR A
PRODUCTIVITY -- AND I HATE
TO USE AN INDUSTRIAL TERM
HERE -- BUT PRODUCTIVITY
IMPROVEMENTS IN TERMS OF
TEACHERS PERHAPS TEACHING A
LITTLE LONGER, WHATEVER, IS
NEGATIVE.

Annie says MORE CLASS, NOT LONGER.

John says I WISH THAT THE REST OF
THE WORLD WORKED THAT WAY.
WE'RE ALL WORKING A LOT
HARDER THAN WE WERE TEN
YEARS AGO, REGARDLESS OF
WHERE WE ARE.
SO ASKING THE TEACHERS TO DO
THE SAME, I DON'T THINK IS
UNREASONABLE.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S PART
OF THE RESENTMENT FROM THE
REST OF THE PUBLIC.
THAT 40 percent OR 60 percent, THIS IS A
DEMOCRATIC -- WE HAVE THE
RULES, RIGHT?
THAT SAY THE PERSON THAT HAS
THE LARGEST --

Maureen says I'D ALSO LIKE TO
POINT OUT THAT THAT'S 40 percent OR
60 percent OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED.
WE DON'T ALL VOTE IN
ONTARIO.

John says BUT THE POINT IS THAT --
I'M SORRY, I'VE LOST MY
TRAIN --

Maureen says BUT CHRISTINE IS
SAYING IT'S A BOOMING
ECONOMY AND YOU KNOW, IT IS
THE BEST CONDITION ME WE'VE
HAD IN YEARS.
AND WEATHER WE CAN GIVE THIS
GOVERNMENT CREDIT FOR THAT
OR NOT, IF YOU CAN'T GIVE
TEACHERS ARE RAISE, AND IF
YOU CAN'T HIRE MORE TEACHERS
TO HELP KIDS IN E.S.L. AND
ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS
NOW, THEN WHEN?

John says WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO
START LOOKING AT THE
STRUCTURE.
PART OF THE REASONS THAT,
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE
PART-TIME PRINCIPAL,
PART-TIME VICE-PRINCIPALS IS
THE COST STRUCTURE.
LIKE IF YOU'VE GOT A SCHOOL
WITH 250 STUDENTS AND YOU'VE
GOT A PRINCIPAL MAKING
80,000 OR 90,000 A YEAR, IT
DOESN'T WORK.
THERE'S -- SCHOOL BECOMES
TOO SMALL.
WE'VE GOT TO START GETTING
VERY CREATIVE ABOUT THE WAY
WE PUT THESE SCHOOLS
TOGETHER --

Annie says THAT IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
WE'RE CLOSING SMALL SCHOOLS
AND SQUISHING ALL THE
KIDS --

John says AND YOU SEE THAT'S ALL
WRONG.
BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD BE
LOOKING AT PEOPLE THAT WON'T
BE ON THE SAME SCALE.
YOU KNOW, THE SAME SALARY
SCALES, THAT WOULD BE --

Maureen says SO YOU'RE
AGAINST CLOSING SCHOOLS WHEN
ENROLLMENT DROPS?

John says OH, YES.
OH, YES.
THERE'S GOT TO BE WAYS --
MAYBE YOU CAN HAVE MASTER
TEACHERS RUNNING THE SCHOOLS
AS OPPOSED TO -- WITH SOME
ADMINISTRATIVE HELP FROM A
BOARD OR FROM A PROVINCIAL
SUPPORT OFFICE OR SOMETHING
LIKE THAT.
BUT WE DON'T NEED THAT LEVEL
OF ADMINISTRATION.

Annie says BUT DO WE NEED
LIBRARIANS?
DO YOU THINK THAT ELEMENTARY
SCHOOLS SHOULD HAVE
LIBRARIANS?

John says PROBABLY.

Annie says BECAUSE THEY DON'T.
PART OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
YOU TRACK THIS STUFF AND
WHEN YOU SEE THE EFFECT OF
THE POLICY CHANGES, AND WE
WENT TO THE MINISTER AND
SAID “DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT
ALL THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS
ARE LOSING ALL THEIR
SPECIALIST TEACHERS?
AND SHE SAID “OH, THAT'S
VERY INTERESTING.”
AND WE KEPT SAYING IS THERE
A POLICY THOUGH?
DO YOU BELIEVE IN THIS?
DO YOU THINK ELEMENT TREE
SCHOOL KIDS SHOULD HAVE
MUSIC TEACHERS AND
LIBRARIANS AND PHYS-ED
TEACHERS SHE SAID THERE
WASN'T A POLICY AND IT WAS
INTERESTING AND SHE WOULD
THINK ABOUT.
BUT IT'S THE DIRECT EFFECT
OF THE FUNDING POLICY RIGHT
NOW.

John says WE'VE GOT TO STOP
THINKING IN STRAIGHT LINES
HERE.
WE GET VERY NOSTALGIC ABOUT
WHAT WE USED TO HAVE IN THE
SCHOOLS, AND WE'D LIKE TO
HAVE IT ALL THERE --

Annie says BUT WHY CAN'T WE IN A
BOOMING ECONOMY.
I DON'T THINK YOU ANSWERED
MAUREEN'S QUESTION.

John says NO, NO, NO, LET ME ANSWER
IT, THOUGH.
THE REASON WAS THAT WE
FINANCED THAT SYSTEM THROUGH
DEFICIT FINANCING OVER YEARS
AND YEARS.

Annie says BUT THEY'RE SENDING OUT
200 dollar CHEQUES AND CUTTING TAXES.

John says IT WASN'T SUSTAINABLE
THEN AND IT'S NOT
SUSTAINABLE NOW.

Annie says I'M SORRY, WE'VE JUST
SPENT 8 BILLION dollars ON TAX CUTS.

John says WHY NOT BRING IN MUSIC
SPECIALISTS FROM THE
COMMUNITY TO HANDLE THAT
MUSIC CLASS?
THE FEDERATIONS WON'T ALLOW
IT.
THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM.
LET'S START GETTING CREATIVE
ABOUT BRINGING COMMUNITY
RESOURCES INTO THE SCHOOLS.

Maureen says WE'VE TRIED TO
EXPLORE THIS ON THAT
PROGRAMME.
I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHO'S THE
ROADBLOCK IN COMMUNITY AND
PARENTS FILLING IN THE GAP
IN EXTRA CURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES.
IS IT THE FEDERATIONS ARE OR
THE SCHOOL BOARDS TELL YOU
THERE'S INSURANCE PROBLEMS
THERE, TOO.

Annie says IN EXTRA CURRICULAR, I
THINK IT'S INSURANCE STUFF.

Maureen says THAT'S TOO BAD
BECAUSE PARENTS -- WE'RE
BUSY, TOO, BUT WE WOULD LIKE
TO SEE THE KIDS GET THESE
THINGS AND I THINK SOME OF
US WOULD STEP IN.
ANNE IS A TEACHER IN
KITCHENER.
HI ANNE.

The Caller says HI.

Maureen says HI, WHAT DO YOU
THINK?

The Caller says FIRST, I THINK
IT'S REALLY INTERESTING,
THIS WHOLE DEBATE WITH
PREMIER HARRIS AND SO ON.
I REMEMBER I WAS TEACHING
WHEN PREMIER RAY WAS IN AND
WE ALL TOOK A 4 percent CUT AND WE
HAD TO TAKE A WEEK OFF
UNPAID.
AND WE DIDN'T STRIKE OR WE
DIDN'T STRIKE OR FIGHT
AGAINST THAT.
SO I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW
IT CAME TO THIS POINT WHERE
THERE SEEMS TO BE SUCH A
HATRED OR A DISLIKE, AN
INTENSE DISLIKE BETWEEN
TEACHERS AND HARRIS.

Maureen says ANNE, YOUR
UNIONS HATED BOB RAE FOR
THOSE RAE DAYS.
THEY TOLD HIM THEY'D GET HIM
IN THE NEXT ELECTION AND
THEY DID.

The Caller says AND THAT'S HOW WE
GOT RID OF HIM, ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT.
BUT IT'S INTERESTING HOW
THINGS HAVE CHANGED NOW AND
HOW WE'RE REACTING TO THAT
NOW.
I THOUGHT I'D BRING THAT UP
AS A COMMENT.
BUT THE OTHER THOUGHT WAS
WITH THE SPENDING, I KNOW
WITH MY BOARD THAT I WORK
WITH, WE HAVE -- WE'RE
INTRODUCING MUSIC
SPECIALISTS INTO THE SCHOOLS
NOW.
WE'RE ABLE TO BRING IN TO
ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS
SPECIALIZED MUSIC TEACHERS.
WE NO LONGER HAVE TEACHER
LIBRARIANS BUT WE HAVE
LIBRARY TECHNICIANS.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE
CONCESSIONS WE HAD TO MAKE.

Maureen says WHAT'S THE
DIFFERENCE?
ANNE, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE
COMING IN BETWEEN A
LIBRARIAN AND A LIBRARY
TECHNICIAN?

The Caller says THE DIFFERENCE IS
THAT THE CHILDREN NEED TO --
THE TEACHER HAS TO BE
PRESENT WITH THE LIBRARY
TECHNICIAN NOW.
BEFOREHAND THE TEACHER COULD
SEND THE CHILDREN INTO THE
LIBRARY AND THE TEACHER
LIBRARIAN WOULD TAKE THEM.

John says LIBRARIANS ARE ACTUALLY
TEACHERS, AREN'T THEY?

Maureen says RIGHT.

The Caller says YES, AND
SUPERVISES WHY THE LIBRARY
TECHNICIAN READS TO THEM OR
HELPS THEM SIGN OUT BOOKS.
BUT THE LIBRARY TECHNICIAN
IS NOW RESPONSIBLE FOR THE
WHOLE RUNNING OF THAT
LIBRARY.

Annie says BUT WHAT THEY CAN'T DO
IS -- WHAT TEACHER LIBRARIANS
DO THAT'S REALLY REALLY
IMPORTANT IN ELEMENTARY AND
HIGH SCHOOLS IS THEY
COORDINATE A LOT OF
CURRICULUM AMONG THE TEACHER
EXAMINES MAKE THE RESOURCES
ARE IN THE LIBRARY TO
ENHANCE THE CURRICULUM AND
TEACH THE KIDS THAT A
LIBRARY TECHNICIAN SHELVES
BOOK, CATALOGUES BOOKS HELPS
KIDS TAKE THEM OUT AS YOU
SAY.
BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE -- THE
LIBRARY IS A CLASSROOM AS
ALL OF THE OTHERS ARE IN THE
SCHOOL AND A LOT GOES ON IN
THE LIBRARY ABOUT RESEARCH,
USING TECHNOLOGY.
IN OUR SCHOOL THAT'S WHERE
ALL THE TECHNOLOGY IS, IS IN
ALL THAT COMPUTER --

Maureen says I SUPPOSE A
LIBRARIAN COULD HAVE STEPPED
IN FOR AN ABSENT TEACHER AS
WELL.

Annie says THEY DO.

Maureen says BUT A LIBRARY
TECHNICIAN CAN'T DO THAT.
AND THEY WOULD GET PAID
SOMEWHAT LESS THAN A
TEACHER.

Annie says YEAH.

John says YES.

Annie says THAT'S WHY THEY'RE THERE.

Maureen says ALRIGHT, THANKS
FOR THAT CALL, ANNE.
CATHY SAYS “I THINK JUST AS
EARL MANNERS AND JANET ECKER
HAVE RECOGNIZED THE RIGHT OF
TEACHERS TO CHOOSE TO
PARTICIPATE IN LEADING EXTRA
CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES, SO,
TOO, SHOULD WE BEGIN TO
RECOGNIZE THE RIGHT OF
PARENTS TO MAKE A CHOICE
BETWEEN SENDING THEIR KIDS
TO A SCHOOL WHICH OFFERS THE
ACTIVITIES AND A FULL
COMPLEMENT OF STAFF TO
OVERSEE THEM, OR CHOOSE A
SCHOOL THAT DOESN'T MEET
THOSE NEEDS FOR THOSE KIDS.
WHY IS IT WE WORK OFF SO
MANY DOUBLE STANDARDS IN A
SYSTEM WHERE ALL PLAYERS
CLAIM TO REPRESENT THE
STUDENTS?
WHERE IS THE WILL OF THE
STAKEHOLDERS WHO ALL TOUT
THAT WORKING TOGETHER IS
WHAT'S NEEDED?
ALL TALK, NO ACTION, WHEN
AND WHERE IT COUNTS.”

She turns to her guests and continues
YOUR ORGANIZATION TALKS MORE
ABOUT CHOICE IN THE SCHOOL
SYSTEM.
I KNOW YOU LIKE CHARTER
SCHOOLS AS ONE OF THOSE
CHOICES.
WOULD WE HAVE TO GO ALL THE
WAY TO CHARTER SCHOOLS TO
GET THE KIND OF CHOICE
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

John says THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE
MECHANISMS, YES.
OR FUNDING -- PARTIAL
FUNDING OF INDEPENDENT
SCHOOLS THAT ARE ALREADY OUT
THERE.
AND THEN REALLY, IT IS AN
ESCAPE FROM THE LABOUR
TURMOIL, BECAUSE YOU WOULD
THEN, FOR EXAMPLE --
TEACHERS WOULD THEN HAVE THE
OPTION OF JOINING A
FEDERATION, AN ASSOCIATION
THAT DOESN'T HAVE AS
MILITANT AN AGENDA, DOESN'T
CONFRONT THE PROVINCE, IS
MORE INCLUSIVE OF PARENTAL
INVOLVEMENT, AND THEN THERE
WILL BE A LOT LESS TURMOIL
AND A LOT MORE HARMONY IN
THE SCHOOLS SO THAT A
PATIENT CAN THEN CHOOSE.
DO I SEND MINE TO THIS
SCHOOL WITH THE FEDERATIONS
THAT ARE ALWAYS AT WAR WITH
THE GOVERNMENT OR OVER HERE,
WHERE THERE'S SOME PEACE?
AND THAT WOULD THEN MODERATE
THE AGENDA OF THE MAINLINE
FEDERATIONS TODAY.

Maureen says WELL, I MEAN --

Annie says WELL, I MEAN, TO ME IT'S
A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH THE
KIND OF IDEAL OF PUBLIC
EDUCATION, THAT WHEN YOU --
AND WE HAD PUBLIC EDUCATION
BEFORE WE WERE EVEN A
COUNTRY AND WHEN YOU SET UP
A PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM
THE FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE OF
THAT IS THAT IT BE FAIR,
THAT IT GIVE EACH CHILD,
EVERY SINGLE CHILD, NO
MATTER WHERE THEY LIVE, NO
MATTER FROM WHAT BACKTHE
GROUND THEY ARE, NO MATTER
WHAT LEVEL OF INTELLIGENCE,
THEY HAVE AN EQUAL CHANCE IN
SCHOOL.
AND THAT WHEN YOU GO TO A
SYSTEM WHERE YOU HAVE A
TWO-TIERED SYSTEM WHERE SOME
PEOPLE ARE TAKING THEIR TAX
DOLLARS OUT AND USING THEM
IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS, YOU
ACTUALLY TAKE AWAY THAT
EQUALITY AND THAT FAIRNESS,
AND IN SOME AREAS IT'LL BE
FINE.
THERE'LL BE LOTS OF CHOICES,
AND LOTS OF EXTRA MONEY THAT
CAN GO IN AND WE'VE SEEN IT
IN ENGLAND, WE'VE SEEN IT IN
NEW ZEALAND IN OTHER AREAS
WHERE IN THE NORTH, FOR
INSTANCE, OR IN INNER CITIES,
THEN YOU WON'T HAVE THAT
CHOICE.
OR IF I AM, IF I DON'T SPEAK
ENGLISH I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH
MONEY, I DON'T HAVE THE SAME
KIND OF CHOICES.

John says BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE, YOU
SEE --

Annie says WE'RE ALREADY SEEING EVEN
JUST THROUGH FUNDRAISING
SUCH AN ENORMOUS DISPARITY
IN TERMS OF --

Maureen says IN NEIGHBOURHOOD
SCHOOLS.

Annie says OH, ABSOLUTELY!

John says BUT WHO HAS BEEN TAKING
ADVANTAGE OF THE CHOICE MORE
THAN ANY OTHER GROUP?
IF YOU TAKE A LOOK --
THERE'S 2,000 CHARTER
SCHOOLS IN THE U.S. RIGHT
NOW?
AND A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF
THEM ARE IN INNER CITIES
BECAUSE THE POOR PEOPLE
SAY --

Annie says IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT
SYSTEM, JOHN.

John says NO, IT'S NOT --

Annie says YES, IT IS.

Maureen says WELL CHARTER
SCHOOL IS ANOTHER TOPIC --

John says WE HAVE TO CONSIDER
CHOICE AS A WAY OF ESCAPING
THE LABOUR TURMOIL.

Maureen says I'M INTERESTED
IN THIS IDEA TEACHERS WOULD
HAVE THE RIGHT TO JOIN IN A
UNION OR BE A PART OF A
SCHOOL THAT ISN'T UNIONIZED.

John says OR ANOTHER UNION,
ASSOCIATION.

Maureen says THAT IS GOING TO
SAY WHAT?
IT WILL NEVER GO ON LIKE?
THAT'S NOT MUCH OF A UNION.

John says NO, BUT IT CAN SAY WE'RE
NOT GOING TO BE OPPOSED TO
EVERYTHING THAT THE
GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY COMES
UP WITH.
THAT WOULD BE A HUGE
IMPROVEMENT.

Maureen says I DON'T KNOW
THAT UNIONS EVER SAID “WE
WILL BE...” BUT YOU'RE RIGHT,
SOME OF THAT HAS BEEN
EXHIBITED.
IAN SAYS BY E-MAIL THE
OBVIOUS ANSWER IS TO GET RID
OF MIKE HARRIS.
THIS REBEL THAT IS LEADING
QUEENS PARK ARE INTENT ON
CREATING ONE CRISIS AFTER
ANOTHER, CASTING ANY WHO
OPPOSE THEM AS BEING AGAINST
“PROGRESS.”
REMEMBER ERNIE EVES AND
HARRIS' FIRST MANDATE?
CAN ANYBODY SHOW ME THAT
ANYTHING HAS REALLY CHANGED
WITH THESE YAHOOS?”
OKAY.

John says SEE, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS
WITH THAT LINE OF THINKING
IS THAT THE ISSUES DIDN'T
SHOW UP WITH MIKE HARRIS.
THEY'VE BEEN AROUND FOR
DECADES.
AND HE'S THE FELLOW,
UNFORTUNATELY, OR
FORTUNATELY FOR OUR KIDS,
WHO HAS ACTED ON A LOT OF
THE PERFORMS NEEDED.

Annie says I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S --
IN MY MEMORY, AND I KNOW
IT'S, YOU KNOW, WRONG TO GO
BACK TO WHEN I WAS YOUNG, I
NEVER, EVER WAS IN -- THERE
WAS NEVER A STRIKE, I DON'T
THINK IN ALL MY MEMORY OF
BEING IN SCHOOL.
AND EVEN MY MEMORY OF
BEFORE -- I MEAN, I DON'T
REMEMBER IT BEING LIKE THIS.

John says THERE WAS A STRIKE.
I REMEMBER SEEING A PICTURE
IN THE PAPER OF THE --

Maureen says YEAH, THERE WAS
A STRIKE IN '79?
'79?

Annie says I'M OLDER THAN THAT.
BUT IT WASN'T LIKE -- THERE
HAVE BEEN THREE IN THE LAST
FOUR YEARS.
I MEAN, THIS AMOUNT OF
TURMOIL FOR THIS AMOUNT OF
TURMOIL TO BE GOING ON
CANNOT JUST BE BLAMED ON THE
FACT THAT TEACHERS ARE, YOU
KNOW, DEFENSIVE AND MORONIC
AND JUST WANTING TO FIGHT
WITH THE GOVERNMENT.
THERE MUST BE MORE GOING ON
THAN THAT FOR IT TO BE SUCH
A MESS.
AND THEY DID SAY, THEY CAME
IN, THEY SAID “WE'RE GOING
TO CREATE A CRISIS, WE'RE
GOING TO DO THIS, THIS IS
HOW YOU HAVE TO MAKE CHANGE
HAPPEN” AND YOU GO “BUT IT'S
AT THE EXPENSE OF MY KID,
WHO I WANT TO BE ABLE TO BE
IN THE READING CLINIC.”
THERE'S 34,000 CHILDREN ON
WAITING LISTS FOR SPECIAL
EDUCATION RIGHT NOW IN
ONTARIO JUST IN ELEMENTARY
SCHOOLS.

Maureen says LET ME GET
CHERYL LYNN IN MISSISSAUGA.
HI CHERYL?

The Caller says HI HOW ARE YOU
DOING?

Maureen says HI, YOU HAVE TO
KIND OF BE QUICK HERE.

The Caller says OKAY, I HAVE A
FEW THINGS.
ONE I FELT THAT THE TEACHERS
WERE BRAIN WASHING THE KIDS
AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT.
I HAVE I HAVE PROOF OF THAT
IN MY SON'S CLASSROOM AND MY
DAUGHTER'S.
THE OTHER THING WAS IS THAT
I JOINED OUR SCHOOL COUNCIL
TO FIND OUT MORE GOING ON
LAST YEAR, AND WE HAVE BOARD
MEMBERS THAT COME IN, AND,
YOU KNOW, WE ASK THEM ABOUT
CUTTING THEIR GAS ALLOWANCE,
THEY WOULD NOT DO IT.
WE CHECKED INTO THIS, WE
HAVE DONE OUR RESEARCH.
IT HAS NOT BEEN CUT IN QUITE
A FEW YEARS, WHEREAS OTHER
COMPANIES HAVE HAD THEIR
SALES -- SALES REPS HAVE HAD
THEIR GAS ALLOWANCE CUT.

Maureen says WELL THE PRICE
OF GAS HAS GONE UP THOUGH.

The Caller says I KNOW, BUT WE FOUND
OUT -- BUT A LOT OF THESE
BOARD PEOPLE MAKE A LOTS OF
MONEY.
WE WENT TO THEIR OFFICES,
THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL BUILDINGS,
THEY OWN GOLF COURSES THAT
THEY REFUSE TO SELL BECAUSE
THEY SAY THAT, YOU KNOW,
THEY NEED THE LAND, AND THEY
GO AND THEY PLAY THE GOLF.
IT'S NOT FOR THE TEACHERS
AND STUFF LIKE THIS.
WE FOUND OUT A LOT ABOUT THE
BOARD OFFICES THAT THEY DID
NOT WANT US TO FIND OUT
ABOUT.
WE ALSO HAVE --

Maureen says OKAY, I CAN'T
LET GO ON TOO LONG.
LET ME QUICKLY ASK YOU.
IF THAT'S GOING ON WHY
DIFFERENT THE MINISTER OF
EDUCATION STEP IN AND TAKE
OVER THAT BOARD, WHICH SHE
HAS GIVEN HERSELF THE
AUTHORITY TO DO.

The Caller says OH WELL WE'RE
HOPING THAT THIS IS GOING TO
COME OUT.
WE HAVE --

Maureen says OKAY, SORRY,
I'LL HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF
THERE BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE A
MINUTE YET, I DON'T THINK WE
CAN GET INTO GOLF COURSES
OWNED BY BOARDS.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE COME
UP WITH SOLUTIONS BUT YOU
EACH HAVE 20 SECONDS TO TELL
ME WHAT YOU EACH WOULD LIKE
TO SEE DONE.
I DON'T KNOW IN.

John says I THINK FIRST OF ALL THE
TEACHERS SHOULD REALLY LOOK
AT THEIR FEDERATION
LEADERSHIP.
I THINK THE GOVERNMENT
SHOULD TART BACKING OFF A
LITTLE BIT IN TERMS OF THE
TEACHER BASHING, BUT I
REALLY THINK LONG-TERM WE
HAVE TO LACK AT CHOICE,
PROVIDING PARENTS AND
TEACHERS WITH CHOICES IN THE
SYSTEM.

Maureen says ANNIE KIDDER?

Annie says WELL I THINK THAT WE
DO -- EVERYBODY HAS TO PULL
BACK A LITTLE BIT.
I THINK THAT WE DO HAVE TO
REMEMBER WITHOUT JUST
SPOUTING IT AS A LINE THAT
THIS IS FOR CHILDREN.
BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER
HOW IMPORTANT PUBLIC
EDUCATION IS TO OUR COUNTRY
TO US AS CITIZENS AND TO OUR
CULTURE AND I THINK THAT
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE FORGOTTEN.

Maureen says ALRIGHT, THANK
YOU BOTH.
IT WAS GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE
ON THIS TOPIC.
JOHN BACHMAN THE PRESIDENT
OF THE ORGANIZATION FOR
QUALITY EDUCATION.
YOU CAN CHECK OUT THEIR
WEBSITE AT WWW.OQE.ORG
ANNIE KIDDER IS WITH PEOPLE
FOR EDUCATION AND THEIR
WEBSITE IS AT www.peopleforeducation.com
WELL, IF YOUR
CHILD'S TEACHER IS STILL
PREPARING REPORT CARDS AND
HOLDING INTERVIEWS WITH
PARENTS, YOU'LL WANT SOME
ADVICE ON HOW TO TALK TO HIM OR HER.
TOMORROW ON “MORE TO LIFE”
SOME TIPS ON HOW TO APPROACH
AND WORK WITH YOUR CHILD'S TEACHER.
THAT'S TOMORROW AT ONE o’clock on More to Life.
Join us then.

Watch: Pumpkin Carving - Teacher Turmoil