Transcript: Garbage | Oct 19, 2000

(music plays)
The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: “More to life.”

Then, Maureen Taylor appears in a studio with yellow walls and a small TV set in the background, which reads “More to life.”

Maureen is in her late thirties, with wavy strawberry blond hair in a bob. She's wearing a cream blazer and a pink silk scarf.

Maureen says HI, I'M MAUREEN TAYLOR.
WELCOME TO “MORE TO LIFE.”
PICTURE NORTHERN ONTARIO.
DARK FORESTS, PRISTINE LAKES,
IMPOSING ROCK FACES.
NOW DUMPS MILLIONS OF TONS
OF GARBAGE INTO THAT IMAGE.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT TORONTO
IS GOING TO DO ITS WITH
TRASH IN.
TWO YEARS THE CITY'S GARBAGE
WILL BE SHIPPED TO THE ADAMS
MINE NEAR KIRKLAND LAKE.
ALTHOUGH POLITICIAN THERE'S
VOTEDED TO ACCEPT THE
GARBAGE, THE COMMUNITY AND
THOSE SURROUNDING IT ARE
DIVIDE ON THE ISSUE.
LATER ON IN THE SHOW WE'LL
TALK TO COUNSELORS FROM BOTH
TORONTO AND KIRKLAND LAKE
AND TAKE YOUR CALLS.
FIRST WE'LL TAKE TO YOU
GUELPH TO LOOK AT THE WAYS
THEY'RE DEALING WITH THEIR
GARBAGE.

A clip plays showing a man collecting green and blue bags of garbage.

A female voice narrates WE HAVE A TWO-STREAM
RECYCLING PROCESS.
RESIDENTS MUST RECYCLE THEIR
WASTE EITHER INTO A BLUE BAG
WHICH IS RECYCLABLE INTO
CONTAINERS OR A GREEN BAG
WHICH IS WET.

The woman appears walking in a park. A caption reads “Nicole Heber. Guelph Works Department.”
Clips show a garbage truck unloading recyclable materials in a large warehouse.

Nicole continues THAT'S HOW THE ORGANIC
MATERIALS SUCH AS KITCHEN
LEFTOVERS, MEAT AND BONES
AND SANITARY PRODUCTS.
THIS STERILE COLLECTED ONCE
A WEEK AT THE CURB.
THE MATERIAL IS BROUGHT TO
THE RECYCLING CENTRE.
THE WET WASTE OR ORGANIC
MATERIALS COMES INTO THE WET
COMPOSTING AREA.
THE FIRST PART OF THE
PROCESS IS WHERE THE SWAFT
DUMPED IS ONTO THE TIPPING FLOOR.

Clips show the whole process as Nicole describes it.

Nicole continues AND FROM THERE A FRONT END
LOADER PUSHES THE WASTE ONTO
A LOWERED CONVEYOR PELT
WHICH TAKES IT UP TO A BAG
BREAKER.
AT THIS POINT THE BAGS ARE
BROKEN UP AS WELL AS SOME OF
THE LARGER MATERIALS ARE
MASHED AS A RESULT OF GOING
THROUGH THIS MACHINE.
AFTER THE MATERIAL COMES
THROUGH THE BAG BREAKER, A
CONVEYOR BELT TAKES IT TO
THIS SCREEN, WHICH IS A
LARGE ROTATING DRUM THAT
SITS ON ITS SIDE.
THIS DRUM HAS HOLES IN IT
THAT ARE THREE INCHES IN
DIAMETER.
ANYTHING THAT'S SMALLER THAN
THAT FALLS THROUGH THE HOLES
IN THE SCREEN AND IS TAKEN
TO THE COMPOSTING AREA.
AND ON THE WAY THERE IT
PASSES BY A MAGNET TO PICK
OUT ANY BOTTLE CAPS AND
KNIVES OR FORKS THAT PEOPLE
MAY HAVE THROWN OUT.
IN THE COMPOSTING AIR YACHT
WASTE FALLS ONTO THE FLOOR
AND IS PILED UP.
NOW A FRONT END LOADER TAKES
THIS MATERIAL AND LOADS IT
INTO WHAT WE CALL A VESSEL.
A VESSEL IS A SERIES OF LONG
CHANNELS WHERE THERE
CONCRETE WALLS ABOUT EIGHT
FEET HIGH.
THIS IS WHERE THE MATERIAL
ACTUALLY STARTS TO COMPOST.
AND AS THIS STAGE WE ALSO
ADD WOOD CHIPS IN THE FORM
OF MANURE, AND THIS BALANCES
OUT THE NITROGEN AND THE
CARBON THAT'S REQUIRED
DURING THE COMPOSTING
PROCESS.
IN THE VESSELS THE MATERIAL
SPENDS APPROXIMATELY 28
DAYS.
IT'S TURNED EVERY TWO TO
THREE DAYS WITH A TURNING
MACHINE.
AFTER THAT IT'S LOAD INTO AN
AREA WHERE IT SITS IN PILES
FOR ABOUT TWO TO THREE
MONTHS.
FOLLOWING THAT, IT'S BROUGHT
OUTSIDE AND, AS YOU CAN SEE,
THERE'S LARGE DARK ROWS OF
RICH COMPOST MATERIAL.
MOST OF OUR COMPOST IS SOLD
TO TOP SOIL BLENDERS.
COMPOST IS NOT SOMETHING
THAT YOU CAN PLANT IN
STRAIGHT OFF.
YOU HAVE TO APPROXIMATELY
MIX IT AT A 10-1 RATIO.
SO THE BLENDERS WILL DO THAT
AND THEN SELL IT.
WE ALSO DO MAKE AMOUNTS OF
IT AVAILABLE TO COMMUNITY
GROUPS SUCH AS SCOUTS AND
SCHOOLS.
THEY WILL BAG THE COMPOST
AND SELL IT AS A
FUND-RAISER.
WE HAVE OUR DRIVE STREAM,
WHICH IS IN BLUE BAGS.
IT'S ALL YOUR
RECYCLABLE AND
EVERYTHING ELSE, SUCH AS
SHOES, TOYS, THAT KIND OF
THING.
THAT MATERIAL ARRIVES IN THE
DRY PROCESSING PLANT.
IT'S DUMPED ONTO THE FLOOR
AND A FRONT END LOADER LOADS
IT ONTO A BELT, WHICH TAKES
IT THROUGH THE DIFFERENT
SORTING AREAS.
THE MATERIAL IS LOAD ONTO
THE CONVEYOR, TRAVELS UP
INTO THE FIRST SORTING AREA,
WHERE PAPER AND CARDBOARD
ARE PULLED OFF THE LINE.
THE MATERIAL IS PICKED UP BY
THIS ORDER AND THROWN DOWN
THE CHUTE AND LANDS IN A
BUNKER BELOW.
ANOTHER PART OF THE
RECYCLING PROCESS IS WHERE
CONTAINERS SUCH AS ALUMINUM,
STEEL, PLASTIC AND GLASS ARE
SEPARATED.
LABOURERS PULL OFF PAPER AND
PLASTIC.
THEN THE REST OF THE
MATERIAL MOVES ONTO FURTHER
SEPARATION.
THE MATERIALS SUCH AS PIP
AND CARDBOARD ARE PICKED OFF
THE LINE, THROWN DOWN THE
CHUTE INTO A STORAGE BUNKER
BELOW THE ROOM.
AFTER THE MATERIAL IS STORED
IN THIS ROOM, A -- WILL PUSH
THE MATERIAL THROUGH A
SWINGING METAL DOOR ONTO A
CONVEYOR BELT, WHICH TAKES
IT TO A BAILER.
TODAY WE'RE BAILING UP
NEWSPAPER.
SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT
WE BAIL UP INCLUDE PLASTICS,
CARDBOARD, STEEL AND
ALUMINUM.

Maureen narrates NOT ONLY IS
GUELPH SEPARATING THE WET
AND DRY GARBAGE NEXT DOOR IS
A PLANT, SUPER BLUE BOX
RECYCLING CORPORATION.
GARBAGE HERE ISN'T EVEN
SORTED.
EVERYTHING IS TURNED INTO
COMPOST AND ENERGY THROUGH A
CHEMICAL PROCESS.

A man appears in the plant speaking.
A caption reads “Mike Sommerville. SUBBOR.”
Mike is in his fifties, with short brown hair and a trimmed beard. He’s wearing glasses, a black suit, checkered shirt and green tie.

He says THE PROCESS USES ANAROBIC
DIGESTION TO COMPLETELY
REDUCE THE ORGANICS.
ANAROBIC OF COURSE MEANS
WITHOUT OXYGEN.
THE DIGESTION TAKES PLACE
WITH BACTERIA, WHICH ARE
ORDINARILY PRESENT IN A
LANDFILL.
WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS WE HAVE
CREATED A LANDFILL
ENVIRONMENT IN AN ENCLOSED
ENVIRONMENT.
SO THAT WE HAVE INTRODUCED
THE BACTERIA THAT EAT THE
ORGANICS AND IN THE PROCESS
OF EATING THE ORGANICS, BIO
GAS IS PRODUCED.

A man in his thirties appears.
A caption reads “Gregory Vogt. President, SUBBOR.”
Gregory has short brown hair and is clean-shaven. He’s wearing a black suit, gray shirt, and black tie.

He says BY MAKING YOUR OWN ENERGY
BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING BIO
GAS OR NATURAL GAS, YOU
EFFECTIVELY HAVE AN ENERGY
SOURCE.
THIS ENERGY SOURCE CAN BE
USED TO DRIVE THE VERY
PROCESS ITSELF.
OUR TECHNOLOGY CAN DEAL
WITH UNSORTED GARBAGE.
IT'S THE WAY PEOPLE THROW
THEIR TRASH OUT RIGHT NOW.
THE GREEN BAG CAN BE
ACCEPTED THE WAY IT IS.
YOU KNOW, OUR SOCIETY IS
BASED ON EFFICIENCIES.
PEOPLE WANT FAST FOOD.
THEY DON'T WANT SLOW FOOD.
OUR TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS PEOPLE
TO DEVOTE MORE TIME TO
THEMSELVES AND FREE TIME AND
SPEND LESS TIME HAVING TO DO
THINGS TO PREPARE THEIR
GARBAGE FOR PICKUP.
INSTEAD WE LET TECHNOLOGY
PROVIDE THAT SERVICE FOR THEM.

The clip ends.

Back in the studio, Maureen says SO WE'RE ABOUT
TO LOOK AT A COUPLE OF THE
PROJECTS GOING ON JUST IN
THE CITY OF GUELPH TO GET
RID OF THEIR GARBAGE.
BUT CLEANING UP YOUR ACT IS
CLEARLY NOT EASY WHEN IT
COMES TO ONTARIO'S TRASH.
JOHN JACKSON COORDINATOR OF
THE CITIZENS NETWORK ON
WASTE MANAGEMENT.
HE'S ALSO ON THE BOARD OF
THE RECYCLING COUNCIL OF ONTARIO.

John is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with receding brown hair. He’s wearing glasses and a green shirt.

Maureen continues WELCOME, JOHN.

John says GLAD TO BE HERE.

Maureen says HOW UNIQUE ARE
THOSE PROGRAMMES IN GUELPH
COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE
PROVINCE?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "John Jackson. Citizen’s Network on waste."

John says COMPARED TO THE REST OF
THE PROVINCE IT'S QUITE
UNIQUE.
WE DO SEE SIMILAR PROJECTS
IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

Maureen says IN OTHER PARTS
OF THE WORLD.
SO THEY'RE SORT OF ON THE
LEADING EDGE.
MAYBE I SHOULDN'T PRESUPPOSE
IT'S A GOOD WAY TO DEAL WITH
TRASH.

John says I'M GLAD YOU'RE RAISING
THAT QUESTION.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE
SEEING IS THAT PEOPLE IN
THIS SITUATION THINK I'M NOT
CREATING ANY GARBAGE.
IT ALL WENT INTO THIS BLUE
BAG OR GREEN BAG AND THAT
DOESN'T END UP IN LANDFILL.
A PERCENTAGE OF THAT STILL
ENDS UP IN LANDFILL.
IN GUELPH AT THE MOMENT
ABOUT 40 percent OF THE GASH SAJ
STILL BEING DUMPED INTO THE
GROUND INTO A LANDFILL.
BUT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN
THAT SORT OF COMMUNITY END
UP THINKING, GREAT.
I'M NOT CREATING ANY
GARBAGE.
IT'S ALL RECYCLABLE.
IT'S ALL COMPOSTABLE, SO I
DON'T -- RECYCLABLES SO I
DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
WHAT I BUY.

Maureen says THEY DON'T TRY TO CONSUME
LESS BECAUSE THEY THINK IT'S
ALL RECYCLED.

John says THAT'S RIGHT.
IT'S NOT CREATING A PROBLEM.

Maureen says 40 percent GOING INTO A
LANDFILL MIGHT BE BETTER
THAN -- WHAT PERCENTAGE OF
TORONTO'S TRASH IS GOING
INTO A LANDFILL?

John says IT'S ABOUT THREE-QUARTERS
IS GOING INTO LANDFILL.
SO IT'S CERTAINLY PROGRESS.
WHAT IS REALLY CRITICAL AND
HOW THEY'RE MAKING THE
DIFFERENCE IS COMPOSTING.
IN EVERY MUNICIPALITY IN
ONTARIO WE SHOULD BE
COLLECTING FOOD WASTE.
WE SHOULD BE COLLECTING YARD
WASTE AND PUTTING THEM INTO
COMPOSTING FACILITIES.
AND THE SORT OF FACILITY YOU
SAW AT END TALKING ABOUT
CREATING COMPOST.

Maureen says BIOGAS.

John says AT THE SAME TIME CREATING
ENERGY.
WE SHOULD BE DOING THAT, BUT
JUST WITH THE COMPOSTABLE
ITEMS.
WE SHOULDN'T BE PUTTING THE
BENCH CONTAINERS IN THERE.
WE SHOULDN'T BE PUTTING THE
PLASTICS IN THERE.
WE SHOULD ONLY BE PUTTING
THE THINGS THAT ARE REALLY
COMPOSTABLE SO WE GET GOOD
QUALITY COMPOST AND ALSO GET
GOOD ENERGY.

Maureen says WHY SHOULDN'T WE PUT THE
WHOLE GREEN BAG IN.
THERE THE GUYS IN THE PIECE
WERE SAYING PEOPLE WANT
EFFICIENCY.
THEY DON'T WANT TO SEPARATE
STUFF.
THIS WAY WE TURN ALL INTO
ENERGY AND THEY DON'T HAVE
TO SEPARATE.
WHY ISN'T THAT GOOD?

John says FIRST OF ALL, IT ISN'T
GOOD BECAUSE YOU GET
CONTAMINATION IN YOUR
COMPOST.
YOU SAW THE BAGS BEING
BROKEN OFF, THE PLASTIC BAGS
BEING BROKEN UP.
THOSE PLASTICS END UP IN THE
COMPOST, AND THAT'S NOT
SOMETHING A LANDSCAPER WANTS
ARE THESE LITTLE SHREDS OF
PLASTIC ALL THROUGH THE
COMPOST IT.
MEANS WE'RE NOT RECOVERING
THE VALUABLE GLASSES OR
ALUMINUM AND ALL THOSE
MATERIALS THAT WE NEED TO
RECOVER BECAUSE THEY'RE
VALUABLE USED MATERIAL.
AND THE CHANGE THAT WE HAVE
TO MAKE IN OUR ATTITUDES IS
TO THINK THAT WHEN I'VE USED
SOMETHING, IT'S NOT GARBAGE.
IT'S A VALUABLE USED
MATERIAL.
MAYBE I CAN REUSE IT.
MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE CAN REUSE
IT.
MAYBE IT CAN BE RECYCLED TO
MAKE ANOTHER BENCH CONTAINER,
BUT I SHOULDN'T JUST LOOK AT
IT AS SOMETHING USELESS NOW
TO BE THROWN AWAY.

Maureen says GOALS HAVE BEEN
SET ON THIS ISSUE IN.
1990 THE PROVINCE SET A GOAL
OF DIVERTING 50 percent OF OUR
WASTES AWAY FROM LAND FILLS
BY 2000.
DID WE MEET THAT GOAL?

John says NO, WE DIDN'T MEET THAT
GOAL.
AS OF THE END OF LAST YEAR
WE WERE 27 percent OF DIVERSION, AS
THEY CALL IT.
I DON'T THINK IN ONE MORE
YEAR WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
MADE DRAMATIC DIFFERENCES.

Maureen says WHY NOT?
WHAT HAPPENED?
WHY DIDN'T MUNICIPALITIES
RISE TO THIS CHALLENGE?

John says ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTALS
REASONS IS THAT THE SUPPORT
THAT THEY ORIGINALLY WERE
GIVEN TO SET UP RECYCLING
PROGRAMMES WAS TAKE ANN WAY
FROM THEM.
THE PROVINCE USED TO PUT
MONEY INTO HELPING
MUNICIPALITIES RECYCLE,
THOSE DOLLARS DISAPPEARED.
THE PACKAGING INDUSTRY THAT
CREATES THESE AS GASH AN,
USED TO PUT SOME MONEY INTO
IT.
THEY DROPPED THAT.
AND TO ME, THE FUNDAMENTAL
THING IS THIS SHOULDN'T BE A
MUNICIPAL PROBLEM.
IT IS UP TO THE PEOPLE WHO
MANUFACTURE THESE PRODUCTS,
THAT THEY SELL TO US.
THEY'VE CREATED THE PROBLEM
AND THEREFORE, THE
MANUFACTURERS OF THE
PRODUCTS SHOULD HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO DEAL WITH
THE WASTE AFTER EVE USED IT.

Maureen says LET'S GET DOWN
TO THE NITTY-GRITTY.
WHAT CAN CONSUMERS DO ABOUT
THE PRODUCTS WE BUY?
THEY SOMETIMES VERY COME IN
WISTFUL PACKAGING.
HOW CAN WE SEND A MESSAGE TO
THE SNFER.

John says ONE EASY WAY TO DO IT
WHICH ALWAYS MAKES YOU
POPULAR WITH THE
STOREKEEPER.
BUT WHEN YOU LEAVE THE STORE
IF THERE'S THAT PLASTIC
CONTAINER ON THE TOY YOU'RE
JUST GOING TO THROW AWAY
WHEN YOU GET HOME, TAKE IT
OFF.
TELL THE STOREKEEPER LOOK, I
DIDN'T BUY THIS.
I DON'T WANT THIS.
SEND IT BACK TO THE PERSON
WHO SOLD IT TO YOU.
SEND IT BACK TO THE
DISTRIBUTOR.
SEND IT BACK TO THE
MANUFACTURER.
IF MANUFACTURE US START
DOING THAT, IT WON'T BE LONG
BEFORE THE MANUFACTURER
CHANGES THE WAY IN WHICH
THEY BEHAVE.
I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
THIS WAS ABOUT FIVE YEARS
AGO IN KITCHENER-WATERLOO.
REMEMBER THEY SWITCHED FROM
THOSE PULP SORT OF CARDBOARD
EGG CONTAINERS TO SIR OWE
FOAM EGG CONTAINERS.
IN SOME STORES IN KITCHENER,
WATERLOO, CONSUMERS SAY I
DON'T WANT THESE NEW SIR OWE
FOAM CONTAINERS.
THEY'RE A PROBLEM FOR ME.
THEY STARTED LEAVING THEM
WITH THE STORE KEEPERS.
THE STORE KEEPERS CONTACTED
THE PEOPLE WHO SOLD IT TO
THEM AND THE EGGS STARTED
COMING TO THEM IN THE OLD
SORT OF CARDBOARD LIKE
CONTAINERS.

Maureen says THE RECYCLABLE
TYPE.
SO PRESSURE EXERTED THAT WAY
WILL HAVE AN EFFECT.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE
GOVERNMENTS IMPOSE SOME SORT
OF -- I DON'T KNOW, TAX ON
MANUFACTURERS FOR THE WASTE
THAT THEY PRODUCE THAT HAS
TO GO INTO LAND FILLS?

John says I DEFINITELY THINK IT
ISN'T UP TO THE CONSUMER TO
SAY I'M NOT GOING TO BUY
THESE THINGS.
IT'S REALLY UP TO THE
PROFESSOR TOINS SAY LOOK,
INDUSTRY, YOU CREATED THE
PROBLEM.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT BACK.
NOW YOU CAN DEAL WITH IT IN
VARIOUS WAYS.
WE CAN HAVE DEPOSIT RETURN
SYSTEMS, COMPUTERS THAT YOU
CHANGE.
GOES BACK TO THE
MANUFACTURER OF THE COMPUTER
INSTEAD OF IT BEING THROWN
INTO THE GARBAGE AND THROWN
INTO THE LANDFILL TO BE A
PROBLEM FOR THE MUNICIPALITY.
POP BOTTLES.
YOU TOOK THEM BACK TO THE
STORE AND THEY WERE REFILLED
IT.
TOOK AWAY THE PROBLEM.
INDUSTRY DECIDE GEE WE'D
RATHER HAVE THESE NICE
THROWAWAY PLASTIC BOTTLES.
IT'S CHEAPER FOR THEM.
THEY'RE ABLE TO THROW THE
MUNICIPALITIES ONTO --
BURDEN ONTO THE
MUNICIPALITIES.
THAT NEEDS TO STOP.

Maureen says CAN YOU SEE US
GOING BACK TO A SYSTEM WHERE
THEY FILL THE POP BOTTLES
AND RETURN THEM AND THEY
HAVE TO WASH THEM OUT.
CAN YOU SEE US COMING BACK
TO THAT NOW WE HAVE HAD THIS
SORT OF DISPOSABLE LIFESTYLE?

John says OTHER PARTS OF CANADA ARE DOING IT.
BRITISH COLUMBIA HAS NOW GOT
ALL BENCH CONTAINERS HAVE TO
BE DEPOSIT RETURN SYSTEM
WHERE IT GOES BACK.
THEY AREN'T NECESSARILY
REFILLED, BUT THEY GO BACK
TO THE STORE WHERE YOU
BOUGHT THEM OR THEY GO TO A
DEPOT, SAY THE SHOPPING
CENTRE WHERE YOU CAN TAKE
THEM OFF SO YOU DON'T HAVE
TO GO BACK TO THE SAME
STORE.
AND THE INDUSTRY IS THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR TAKING
CARE OF THE COSTS OF DOING
THAT.
AND THAT'S ALL BENCH
CONTAINERS EXCEPT MILK
CARTONS.
ALBERTA.
SUBSTANTIAL RETURN SYSTEMS.
IT'S REALLY US AND MANITOBA
WHO DON'T HAVE SERIOUS
DEPOSIT RETURN SYSTEMS.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE MORE
BACKYARD.
I DON'T THINK OUR PEOPLE ARE
LESS WILLING TO DO THESE
KIND OF THINGS, BEHAVE
RESPONSIBLY.
SO LET'S GIVE US A CHANCE.

Maureen says WE DO DO IT WITH
BEER, DON'T WE?
WE SAVE THE EMPTIES.
BRING THEM BACK.

John says EXACTLY.
I DON'T HEAR ANYBODY
COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT.

Maureen says WHAT, A SYSTEM
WHERE WE HAVE TO PAY FOR A
BAG OF GARBAGE WE PUT OUT
EVERY WEEK SO THAT FORCES US
TO BECOME BETTER COMPOSTERS,
RECYCLERS OURSELVES.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT IDEA?

John says I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY
WORTH DOING IN ADDITION
HAVING THE INDUSTRY BE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE THINGS
THAT THEY'VE CREATED.
BUT THERE'S STILL SOME
GARBAGE LEFT OVER.
MAYBE IT'S SOME OF YOUR
YARDWAYS.
SOME OF THOSE MATERIALS TO
ENCOURAGE US TO STOP
CREATING SO MUCH WASTE.
WE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR
BAGS.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, INDUSTRY
WANTS THAT TO BE HAPPENED
INSAID OF INDUSTRY FOR THE
COST.
THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.
WHY WE HAVE TO PUT IT BACK
ON INDUSTRY?
THEY'RE THE ONES WHO DECIDE
WHAT PACKAGING TO CREATE.
THEY'RE THE ONES THAT DECIDE
TO CREATE THE TOASTER THAT
BREAKS DOWN AND YOU CAN'T
REPAIR IT.
ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
THE COMPUTER THAT YOU CAN'T
UPGRADE AND KEEP THE SAME
COMPUTER.
UNLESS THEY HAVE TO PAY THE
COSTS OF DISPOSAL, THEY WILL
DO BETTER DESIGN TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE DON'T CREATE
THE GARBAGE IN THE FIRST
PLACE.

Maureen says AND THEY'RE NOT
GOING TO DO THAT UNLESS
GOVERNMENT SETS OUT RULES
AND REGULATIONS FOR THEM.
SO DO WE MAKE THIS, IF THIS
IS IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE?
DO WE MAKE THIS AN ELECTION
ISSUE AND AT WHAT LEVEL?

John says THE WAY THESE THINGS ARE
IN CANADA, IT'S
OVERWHELMINGLY A PROVINCIAL
RESPONSIBILITY.
AND I THINK IN TERMS OF
MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS, WHICH
ARE CURRENTLY ON, IT'S TO
ENCOURAGE OUR COUNSELORS TO
PUSH THE PROVINCE, INSIST
THAT THE PROVINCE DO THIS
SORT OF THING.

Maureen says SO AT MUNICIPAL
LEVEL AND MAYBE AT THE
PROVINCIAL LEVEL AS WELL.

John says DEFINITELY THE PROVINCIAL
LEVEL OVERWHELMINGLY.

Maureen says JOHN, THANKS
VERY MUCH.

John says MY PLEASURE.

Maureen says JOHN JACKSON IS
COORDINATOR FOR THE
CITIZEN'S NETWORK ON WASTE
MANAGEMENT.
IT'S TORONTO'S GARBAGE THAT
WE HAVE BEEN HEARING THE
MOST ABOUT RECENTLY.
IN A FEW MINUTES WE'LL TALK
WITH TWO MUNICIPAL
COUNSELORS.
FIRST LET'S FILL IN ON THE
BLANKS ON THE ADAMS MINE DUMP.

A clip plays showing a debate at the City Council of Toronto.

A female voice says SORRY.
THE LAST 20 YEARS HAVE BEEN
SEVERAL CASES AND SECONDLY
YOU CAN'T SUCK AND BHO AT
THE SAME TIME!

Maureen says IT'S BEEN TEN
YEARS IN THE MAKING.
LAST WEEK TORONTO CITY
COUNCILLORS APPROVED A
BILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT TO
SHIP ITS TRASH NORTH.

[HORN blaring]

A train travels in the countryside.

Maureen says STARTING IN 2002
TORONTO WILL SEND TRAIN
LOADS OF GARBAGE 900
KILOMETRES NORTH TO THE
ABANDONED ADAMS MINE JUST
OUTSIDE KIRKLAND LAKE.
UNDER THE 20-YEAR CONTRACT
WITH A PRIVATE COMPANY, RAIL
CYCLE NORTH, KIRKLAND LAKE
WILL RECEIVE A MILLION
DOLLARS A YEAR AND 80 NEW
JOBS.

In the Council, two men escort a woman out as she yells furiously.

A male voice says STOP.
STOP PROVOKING --

Another male voice says OKAY.

Maureen says THE OPPOSITION HAS BEEN
LONG-STANDING AND LOUD.

[Demonstrators CLAP and chant]

Maureen continues AND NOW LOCAL
CITIZENS, INCLUDING FIRST
NATIONS GROUPS, ARE VOWING
TO BLOCK ACCESS TO THE SITE.
THEY'RE WORRIED CONTESTIMONY
NANTS WILL LEAK OUT OF THE
GARBAGE DUMP AND INTO THE
WATER SYSTEM.

A member of the Council speaks.
A caption reads “Howard Hampton. NDP Leader.”

He says MINISTER IF THIS IS SUCH
A GOOD DEAL LIKE YOUR
GOVERNMENT SAYS IT IS WHY DO
YOU HAVE TO HIDE IT IN THE
BACK ROOM?

Later, another member says
IT'S NOT A CONTRACT WITH
THE GOVERNMENT ONTARIO.

Fast clips show charts and documents.

Maureen says THIS HAS BECOME
A POLITICAL FOOTBALL FOR ALL
CONCERNED.
THE PROJECT CALLS FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A 135
MILLION dollar PUMP SYSTEM TO
PURIFY ANY RUNOFF FROM THE
GARBAGE.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT
BOARD VOTED IN FAVOUR OF THE
MIND SITE -- MINE SITE TWO
YEARS AGO BUT ORDERED
FURTHER TESTS INTO THE
HYDRAULIC PUMPING SYSTEM.
THEY STAND BY THE APPROVAL.

The second member to speak appears talking to reporters.
A caption reads “Dan Newman. Environment Minister.”

He says IT'S A GLOBAL PROBLEM AND
A VERY EMOTIONAL PROBLEM.
WE'VE SEEN THAT IN ANY OF
THESE SITUATIONS.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE
SHOULD BE REASSURED BY THE
PROCESS THAT BROUGHT ABOUT
THE DECISION.
THAT'S THE ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENT PROCESS.
IT'S A CAREFUL SCRUTINY OF
THE PROJECT THAT WAS
UNDERTAKEN.
OBVIOUSLY, THE PROJECT WAS
PASSED, PLUS THE
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT
BOARD HEARINGS AS WELL AS
THE JUDICIAL REVIEW.

Maureen says THE DEBATE RAGES ON.
OPPONENTS SAY THEY'RE
NOWHERE NEAR THROWING IN THE TOWEL.

A man in his late thirties speaks to the press.
A caption reads “Gord Perks. Toronto Environmental Alliance.”

He says THIS DUMP HAS RECEIVED
LESS SCRUTINY THAN ANY
FACILITY SIMILAR TO IT IN
THE LAST 25 YEARS IN THIS
PROVINCE.
THIS IS NOT ENVIRONMENTALLY
SOUND PROPOSAL.
THIS IS A JOKE.
IT'S A JOKE THAT'S BEEN
SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS BY
PLAY NECESSITY FROM THE
PROVINCE AND POLITICAL
EXPEDIENCY FROM THE CITY OF
TORONTO.

A woman in her sixties speaks to the press.
A caption reads “Anne Johnson. Toronto Councillor.”

She says YOU'RE PUTTING IT INTO A MINE.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR
NOT IT'S SAFE.
IT'S IN AN AREA WHERE WE
KNOW THAT -- AND WE'RE BEING
ASKED TO TRUST PEOPLE.
THERE'S NO ABSOLUTE SCIENCE
ON THIS.
IT'S JUST A CRAZY THING TO
DO IN THIS CENTURY.
THERE'S OTHER THINGS WE CAN
BE DOING.

The clip ends.

In the studio, Maureen says SO WHY DOES
KIRKLAND LAKE EVEN WANT
TORONTO'S GARBAGE AND WHY
DID SOME TORONTO COUNCILLORS
VOTE AGAINST THE IDEA?
WE'LL BE GETTING ANSWERS TO
THOSE QUESTIONS FROM
COUNCILLORS DAVID MILL TRER
TORONTO AND LINDA CUNNINGHAM
FROM KIRKLAND LAKE.
AND WE'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM
YOU.
WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD
BE DOING ABOUT OUR GARBAGE?
IS THIS SIMPLY A TORONTO
PROBLEM OR ARE OTHER CITIES
IN THE SAME PREDICAMENT?
AND IS GARBAGE A LEGITIMATE
INDUSTRY FOR AN AILING
COMMUNITY.
GIVE US A CALL IN TORONTO AT
416-484-2727.
LONG DISTANCE IT'S A TOLL-FREE
NUMBER 1-888-411-1234, AND YOU
CAN E-MAIL YOUR COMMENTS AND
QUESTIONS TO MORETOLIFE@TVO.ORG

She turns to her guests and says
HI.
WHY IS KIRKLAND LAKE ACTUALLY
ANXIOUS TO TAKE ALL THIS
GARBAGE FROM TORONTO?

Linda is in her fifties, with short blind hair. She’s wearing a denim vest over a denim shirt.

She says KIRKLAND LAKE IS ANXIOUS
FOR DIVERSITY.
WE'VE LOST 300 JOBS OVER THE
LAST YEAR AND A HALF.
WE NEED TO DIVERSIFY OUR
ECONOMY.

Maureen says AT WHAT COST?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Linda Cunningham. Kirkland Lake Councillor."

Linda continues CERTAINLY NOT AT THE COST
OF THE ENVIRONMENT.
THAT WAS THE FIRST
STIPULATION WE MADE WE
SUPPORT THE PROJECT ONLY ON
ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS WERE
IN THE -- ENVIRONMENT
APPROVED THE PROJECT.

Maureen says IS THAT WHAT HAS
CONVINCED YOU HAD PERSONALLY
THAT IT'S SAFE, THE
ASSESSMENTS THAT WERE DONE
BY THE QUEBEC AND ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT?

Linda says IT IS.

Maureen says THOSE WERE
ENOUGH FOR YOU?
AND WHAT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY
ITSELF?
ARE THEY DIVIDED OVER THIS
ISSUE?
DO YOU GET THIS SENSE IN.

Linda says I DON'T THINK THERE'S A
COMMUNITY ANYWHERE IN CANADA
THAT WOULDN'T BE DIVIDE OVER
A LEFT-HANDFILL ISSUE.
CERTAINLY OUR COMMUNITY IS
VERY MUCH THE SAME.
THERE ARE THOSE WHO OPPOSED
TO HAVING A LANDFILL PERIOD
IN OUR AREA.

Maureen says DAVID MILLER,
MAYBE YOU CAN TELL THE REST
OF THE PEOPLE IN THE
PROVINCE WHY TORONTO CAN'T
KEEP ITS OWN GARBAGE CLOSER
TO HOME.

The caption changes to "David Miller. Toronto Councillor."
David is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with wavy blond hair. He’s wearing a black coat and a white shirt.

He says WELL I THINK TORONTO CAN
KEEP ITS OWN GARBAGE CLOSER
TO HOME.
THE REASON WE'RE SENDING IT
TO KIRKLAND LAKE A POLITICAL
ONE, REALLY.
THE MAYOR AND HIS OFFICE
WERE VERY AGGRESSIVE IN
TWISTING THE ARMS OF
COUNCILLORS.
IF COUNCILLORS VOTED THE
OTHER WAY WE WOULD NOT BE
SENDING THE GARBAGE TO
KIRKLAND LAKE.

Maureen says WHY WOULD THE
MAYOR NEED THIS TO HAPPEN?
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ABOUT
HIS OPEN PERSONAL AGENDA?

David says WELL, I'M NOT SURE.
YOU KNOW, I NEVER REALLY HAD
A CHAT WITH MEL ABOUT THE
ISSUE IN TERMS OF WHY HE WAS
BEING SO AGGRESSIVE.
WHY THE RUSH?
A NUMBER OF US THOUGHT THIS
ISSUE SHOULD WAIT AFTER THE
MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS.
IT'S A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE.
AND IN TORONTO THERE ARE NO
MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT
SUPPORT THIS AT LEAST THE
ONES I CAN FIND.
EVERYBODY IS MASSIVELY
OPPOSED.
WHEN ASKED THE MAYOR WHY THE
RUSH, HE SAID WELL HAVE YOU
SPOKEN TO THE MINISTER AND
IT HAD TO BE DECIDED.

Maureen says THE MINISTER WHO LIVED
WHERE THE TRASH NOW, AND
THE PROVINCE SAYS THAT HAS
TO CLOSE IN TWO YEARS.
SO ISN'T THAT WHAT THE --
THE MAYOR SAID HIS HANDS ARE
TRIED.

David says THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT THE
PRIVATE DISCUSSIONS WERE.
THE KEEL VALLEY ISSUE IS
INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S
VERY, VERY UNFORTUNATE FOR
TORONTO THAT WE AREN'T BEING
GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO
HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME
WITH KEEL VALLEY.
WHAT TORONTO SHOULD BE DOING
IS NOT SHIPPING GARBAGE TO A
LAKE, WHICH HAS TO BE
DRAINED TO BECOME A BIG
HOLE.
WE HAVE BEEN BURYING GARBAGE
FOR MILLENNIA.
WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IS
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE
SHOWN IN YOUR VIDEOS --
COMPOSTING, DIVERTING,
RECYCLING.
TORONTO IS ACTUALLY WAY
BEHIND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES,
INCLUDING MISSISSAUGA AND
MEDFORD, NOT JUST GUELPH.
THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT WE
NEED TO DO.
YOU NEED THE MONEY TO DO IT
BECAUSE NEED CAPITAL
INVESTMENT.
AND THAT MONEY WOULD KEEP
KEEL VALLEY OPEN FOR A FEW
YEARS.
THAT'S WHAT THE STAFF
RECOMMENDATION WANTS.

Maureen says LINDA, I KNOW
KIRKLAND LAKE DOESN'T
PRODUCE NEARLY THE AMOUNT OF
GARBAGE TORONTO DOES, BUT DO
YOU SEND YOURS TO A LANDFILL
AS NS.

Linda says WE.
DO FORTUNATELY, OUR RECORD
IN NORTHEASTERN ONTARIO IS
EVEN POORER THAN TORONTO'S
IN TERMS OF DIVERTING.
IT'S PROBABLY THE SAME FOR
MANY MUNICIPALITIES.
I JUST WANT TO COMMENT ON
THE LAKE AT ADAMS MINE.
THAT MIGHT BE A LAKE IN
SOUTHERN ONTARIO STANDARDS,
BUT I ASSURE YOU IT'S NOT A
LAKE IN NORTHERN ONTARIO
STANDARDS.
THERE'S NO VEGETATION OR
FISH THAT GROW IN THAT HOLE
IN THE GROUND.

David says IT IS FILL OF WATER THOUGH.

Linda says NO.
IT'S NOT FULL OF WATER.
IT'S A HOLE.

Maureen says IT'S A HOLE.
WHY IS THERE WATER IN IT?

Linda says IT COMES FROM INSIDE THE
WALLS OF THE ROCK.
AND THAT'S THE WHOLE KEY
THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
ASKING.

Maureen says IF THEY SAY THAT
THE GARBAGE WATER WILL NEVER
LEAK OUT OF THE ROCK BUT THE
WATER COMES INTO THE CRACKS
IN THE ROCK WON'T IT BE ABLE
TO GO BACK OUT THROUGH THE
CRACKS OF THE ROCK?

Linda says I'M NOT GOING TO PRETEND
TO BE A HYDROGEOLOGIST BUT
THE BEST ANALOGY
I HEAR IS YOU TAKE A
BATHTUB PUT HOLES IN IT AND
SINK IN THE OCEAN THE WATER
IS NOT GOING TO COME OUT.
THE OUTWARD PRESSURE KEEPS
IT IN.
AND EVEN THE CITY OF TORONTO
HAS DONE THEIR PEER REPORT,
AND I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE
STUDIES AND MOST OF OUR
COUNCIL IS COMFORTABLE WITH
THE STUDIES THAT THE RISK IS
MANAGEABLE.

Maureen says YOU GOT TO LIVE
THERE, DAVID.
IF SHE'S WILLING TO LIVE
THERE IN THE ENVIRONMENT
WITH OUR GARBAGE WHO ARE WE
TO TELL THEM YOU CAN'T HAVE IT?

David says FIRST OF ALL, THERE'S THE
HUGE GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM
THE NORTH WHO CAME TO CITY
OF COUNCIL AND SAID WE DON'T
WANT IT.
MANY OF THE AREAS THAT COULD
BE AFFECTED IF IT LEAKS ARE
NOT ORGANIZED TOWNSHIPS.
THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY DON'T
HAVE A RIGHT TO VOTE FOR
MUNICIPAL GOSMTS THEY DON'T
ELECT THE COUNCIL IN
KIRKLAND LAKE.
THERE'S A FARMING COMMUNITY
THAT'S COME OUT QUITE
STRONGLY AGAINST IT BECAUSE
THERE'S A RISK.
THIS SCIENCE IS NOT EXACT.
THE MOST REVEALING TESTS
THAT WOULD TELL THE MOST
WEREN'T DONE.
EVEN IF THEY WERE, YOU STILL
DON'T KNOW.
I THOUGHT MOST EXPERIENCED
PERSON IS THE HYDROGEOLOGIST
THAT WORKED ON THE MINE.
HE'S ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED
BEYOND A DOUBT THAT IT'S
GOING TO LEAK.

Maureen says RIGHT.

David says IT'S JUST A HUGE RISK.
THE UNITED STATES THEY BAN
THESE KIND OF LAND FILLS
BECAUSE IT IS SO RISKY.
WE ALL KNOW HOW IMPORTANT
WATER IS.
YOU SHOULDN'T BE TAKE RACE
WKS WATER IF YOU HAVE A
CHOICE.
WE HAVE LOTS OF CHOICES.

Maureen says WE'RE GOING TO TAKE SOME
CALLS ON THIS ISSUE.
MY GUESTS ARE DAVID MILLER
AND LINDA CUNNINGHAM FROM
KIRKLAND LAKE.
DAVID MILLER FROM TORONTO.
WE'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM
PEOPLE ON THE ISSUE GARBAGE.
IN TORONTO CALL 416-484-2727.
LONG DISTANCE 1-888-411-1234.
AND E-MAIL US.
FRANCO IS IN KIRKLAND LAKE.
HI, FRANCO.

The Caller says HI, HOW ARE YOU DOING?

Maureen says GOOD, THANKS.

The Caller says I WANT TO
CONGRATULATE COUNCILLOR
CUNNINGHAM ON HER STANCE.
WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO REALIZE
IS YES IT'S ONLY 80 JOCHBLEZ.
THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF 80
JOBS KIRKLAND DESPERATELY
NEEDS.
WE HAVE COMPANIES WAITING TO
COME TO KIRKLAND LAKE BUT
THEY'RE AFRAID TO SET UP
BECAUSE OF THE
ENVIRONMENTALISTS.
WHY SHOULD THEY SET UP A
COMPANY THAT WILL MEET THE
ENVIRONMENTAL SOLUTION
PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR BUT
THEY HAVE TO INVEST 0, 40,
50 MILLION dollars AND GET SHUT OUT
BY THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS.
WE NEED TO HAVE THESE JOBS.
IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO
KIRKLAND LAKE AND TO
NORTHERN ONTARIO INCLUDING
INGLEHART FOR THE RAILWAY
LINES WHO IS IN DESPERATE
NEED OF HAVING THE JOBS
STAYING THERE.

Maureen says SO THE OTHER
COMPANIES WAITING TO COME TO
KIRKLAND LAKE, WHAT TYPE OF
TRY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT
THAT WOULD HAVE THE
ENVIRONMENTALISTS UPSET?

The Caller says WELL WE HAVE ONE COMPANY
IS A TIRE RECYCLING COMPANY
WHO RIGHT NOW IN TODAY'S
PAPER HAS DECIDED NOT TO
START IN KIRKLAND LAKE
BECAUSE THE
ENVIRONMENTALISTS MIGHT
OPPOSE IT.
WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE WHO WAS
A PCB RECYCLING BENET
ENVIRONMENT WHO IS NOW IN
LIMBO BECAUSE OF THE
ENVIRONMENTALISTS.
THESE ARE THINGS THE MAYOR
HAS SAID HE'S SUPPORTING.
IS HE GOING TO SUPPORT IT
ONCE THE PEOPLE WANT TO COME
HERE.

Maureen says LET ME GO TO
LINDA FIRST ON THIS.
IS THAT RIGHT?
DO YOU THINK THE
ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT IN
THE NORTH KEEPING INDUSTRY
OUT?

Linda says I THINK THAT IT'S ALWAYS
A CONCERN THAT THESE
CONTROVERSIAL INDUSTRIES
HAVE -- THEY DO BETTER AND
ARE MORE SUCCESSFUL IF THE
COMMUNITY IS WILLING TO HAVE
THEM THERE.

Maureen says DAVID?

David says I THINK THE NORTH NEEDS JOB.
THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
AND I DON'T THINK SOUTHERN
ONTARIO IS A VERY GOOD
RECORD WITH RESPECT TO THE
NORTH.
THE WEALTH IS BEING
LITERALLY DUG OUT NOT SURE
SENDING OUR GARBAGE BACK
THERE IS FRANKLY A GREAT WAY
TO DO IT.
TALKING ABOUT JOBS AND
ECONOMIC BENEFIT, IF WE DID
WALK THE OPPONENTS TO THE
MINE WANT, WHICH IS TO
AGGRESSIVELY PURSUE THE
MODEL OF GUELPH, OF HALIFAX
AND EDMONTON TO COMPOST AND
DIVERT, REUSE AND RECYCLE,
THAT BUILDING THE PLANTS IN
TORONTO WOULD -- WOULD
CREATE A THOUSAND PERSON
YEARS OF EMPLOYMENT FOR
CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, AND
PROBABLY 900 PERMANENT
FULL-TIME JOBS.

Maureen says BUT THAT'S STILL
JOBS IN THE SOUTH.
FRANCO WANTS HIS KIDS TO BE
ABLE TO STAY.

David says YOU KNOW, WHAT I THINK
FRANCO'S KIDS SHOULD BE ABLE
TO STAY IN KIRKLAND LAKE.
BUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSEQUENCES ARE HUGELY
RISKY.
AND PEOPLE IN TORONTO
RECOGNIZE AND THEY'RE ALMOST
UNANIMOUS SAYING THIS, IT'S
OUR GARBAGE AND WE SHOULD BE
DEALING THE PROBLEM IN
TORONTO.
I THINK THAT'S THE WAY WE
SHOULD BE GOING.

Linda says AND I WOULD AGREE WITH
DAVID ON THAT ISSUE.
BUT YOU HEARD PREVIOUSLY
FROM JOHN JACKSON THAT THE
RATE OF DIVERSION IN
SOUTHERN ONTARIO IS
AVERAGING -- ALL OF ONTARIO
ACTUALLY IS AVERAGING ABOUT
27 percent.
HE DOESN'T SEE THAT CHANGING
DRAMATICALLY SOON.
SO THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY
THERE.
FOR SURE, WE ALL HAVE TO
DIVERT A LOT MORE, A LOT
MORE.
ALL OF US HAVE TO DIVERT
MORE.
ALL OF US HAVE TO CHANGE OUR
APPROACH TO GARBAGE.
IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
WITHIN FIVE YEARS OR TEN
YEARS.
THERE'S GOING TO A GRADUAL
INCREASE IN DIVERSION OF
WASTE.
IN THE MEANTIME THERE'S AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR US THAT'S
GOING TO BE REQUIRED.

David says I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH
LINDA THERE.
YOU CAN HAVE MUCH MORE OF A
GRADUAL INCREASE IF THERE'S
LEADERSHIP.
THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME
THIS ISSUE CAME TO TORONTO.

Linda says NO.

David says IT WAS TURNED DOWN TWICE
BY METRO COUNCIL, ONCE IN
1996 WHEN I WAS A COUNCILLOR
AND A NUMBER OF US OPPOSEDED
THAT WE BE MUCH MORE
AGGRESSIVE ABOUT OUR
ENVIRONMENTAL PRACTICES AT
THE TIME.
TORONTO HAD TO LEAD.
MAYBE OTHER PROVINCES CAN'T
I DON'T KNOW, BUT WE CAN.
THAT'S THE SAD THING ABOUT
KIRKLAND LAKE.
WE'RE COMMITTING FOR 20
YEARS.

Maureen says FRANCO, I WANT
TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR CALL.
WE'VE GOT MARJORIE ON THE
LINE.
SHE'S IN KIRKLAND LAKE AS
WELL.
HI, MARJORIE.

The Caller says HI.
I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF
COMMENTS TO MAKE.
FIRST OF ALL MS. CUNNINGHAM
KNOWS THAT Dr. DENTON RAN ON
THE PLATFORM FOR MAYOR
ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO THE
DUMP.
EVERYBODY KNEW HE WAS
OPPOSED TO THE DUMP AND
Dr. DENTON WON AS MAYOR WITH
THE MAJORITY.
HE IS REPRESENTING THE
PEOPLE OF KIRKLAND LAKE.
I'D LIKE YOU TO ASK
MS. CUNNINGHAM WHY OUR
COUNCIL REFUSES TO GIVE THE
PEOPLE OF KIRKLAND LAKE A
VOTE ON THIS ISSUE.
THEY HAVE BEEN ASKED THREE,
FOUR TIMES TO GIVE THE
PEOPLE A VOTE ON THIS ISSUE
AND THEY REFUSE TO DO IT.
SHE SITS THERE ON YOUR
PROGRAMME AND SAYS KIRKLAND
LAKE DOES WANT THIS DUMB.
THAT'S PRETTY HARD TO SAY
WHEN THEY WILL NOT GIVE US A
REFERENDUM.
I'LL TELL YOU, SHE'S NOT
SPEAKING FOR ME.

Maureen says SHE AGREES THE
COMMUNITY WAS DIVIDED.
THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
THE PREMIER SLOUGHS OFF THE
QUESTION TOO ABOUT A
REFERENDUM WHY.
NOT HOLD ONE?

Linda says LET ME JUST ANSWER HER
FIRST COMMENT RESPOND TO
THAT ONE.
Dr. DENTON WON WITH A 51 percent
MAJORITY BACK IN '97.
THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE THAT
RAN AT THE TIME.
I VOTED FOR Dr. DENTON THREE
YEARS AGO AND THERE WERE
MANY PEOPLE WHO FELT HE WAS
THE BEST PERSON TO PROVIDE
LEADERSHIP FOR THREE YEARS
ON ALL OF THE ISSUES.
AND I THINK THAT --

Maureen says DID YOU KNOW HIS
FEELINGS ABOUT ADAMS MINE?

Linda says I DID.

Maureen says HE MADE THOSE
CLEAR ENOUGH THAT HE WAS
RUNNING ON A PLATFORM
AGAINST ADAMS MINE?

Linda says NO, I DON'T THINK HE MADE
THOSE CLEAR ENOUGH.
I THINK WHEN PEOPLE WERE
GIVEN THE CHOICE BETWEEN
THREE CANDIDATES.
THE DECISION THREE YEARS AGO
WAS NOT BASED ON THAT ISSUE
ALONE.
IT IS WE WANT THE BEST
PERSON FOR THE JOB.
AND OF THE THREE PEOPLE THAT
RAN, 51 percent FELT THAT HE WAS
THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB.
NOT ONE ISSUE BEING A BIG
FACTOR.
HE WAS WELL KNOWN TO BE
OPPOSED TO IT.

Maureen says WELL ISN'T THAT
THE SAME?
HE WAS WELL KNOWN TO BE
OPPOSED TO IT YET YOU VOTED
FOR HIM.

Linda says THREE YEARS AGO WHEN THEY
HAD THE ALL CANDIDATES NIGHT
FOR COUNCILLORS THERE WERE
12 CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR
SIX POSITIONS.
THERE WAS AN ALL CANDIDATES
NIGHT.
IT WAS THREE OR FOUR HOURS
LONG WITH QUESTIONS COMING
FROM THE FLOOR FROM THE
PEOPLE OF KIRKLAND LAKE.
THERE WAS NOT A SINGLE ISSUE...
NOT A SINGLE QUESTION
POSED TO THE CANDIDATES
ABOUT THE ADAMS MINE
PROJECT.

Maureen says THEN WHY A
REFERENDUM NOW?

Linda says WELL, MAUREEN, COULD YOU
HAVE A WHOLE PROGRAMME ON
REFERENDUMS AND THE
WHETHER TO HOLD A REFERENDUM
OR NOT.
IT IS FRAUGHT WITH ALL KINDS
OF -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
WORD WOULD BE, BUT THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD TO
ISSUE OR DEVELOP LEGISLATURE
AROUND CLARITY.
THE PROVINCE ISSUE
LEGISLATION IN APRIL ARE
MADE ON THE POSSIBILITY OF
MUNICIPALITIES HAVING
REFERENDUM QUESTIONS.
BUT THE QUESTION HAD TO BE
APPROVED BY THE PROVINCE.
THERE'S A WHOLE RIG MORAL IN
TERMS OF HAVING A REFERENDUM
QUESTION.
BUT ALSO THERE'S
REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT.
AND FOR THREE COUNCILS NOW
IN THE LAST TEN YEARS DURING
THE DEBATE AROUND THE ADAMS
MINE, EACH TIME IN THE
COMMUNITIES OF INGLEHART,
LAUDER, LAKE AND KIRKLAND
LAKE WHICH ARE HOST
COMMUNITIES THERE HAVE BEEN
MAJORITIES ELECTED IN FAVOUR
OF THE PROJECT.

David says YOU KNOW, MAUREEN, ONE OF
THE THINGS THAT COULD HAVE
BEEN DONE WAS BY TORONTO WAS
POSTPONING THIS DECISION
TILL THE MEETING OF COUNCIL.

Maureen says AND MAKE THAT AN ISSUE IN
THE ELECTION.

David says YES, AND THAT WOULD HAVE
ALLOWED THE MUN ILT --
MUNICIPALITIES THAT LINDA IS
TALKING ABOUT, HAVE IT BE A
REAL ISSUE IN THEIR
ELECTIONS.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING WAS IT
WASN'T AS MUCH OF AN ISSUE
BECAUSE THEY TURNED THE
PROJECT DOWN, WOULDN'T BE
REALLY ON PEOPLE'S MINDS
RIGHT NOW AND ALLOW THE
VOTERS OF TORONTO TO EXPRESS
THEIR OPINION,.
A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ASKED FOR
THAT TO HAPPEN.
AND IT DIDN'T.
THERE WAS NO REASON WITH THE
CONTRACT.
THERE WAS NO LEGAL REASON
NOT TO WAIT TND WOULD HAVE
GIVEN VOTERS THE CHANCE.
THAT'S JUST WRONG.

Maureen says TELL ME THIS THEN.
I KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE
THIS AN ISSUE WHEN YOU RUN
IN THE NEXT MUNICIPAL
ELECTION, BECAUSE
ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS ARE
TARGETING YOUR OPPONENT.
IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE AN
ISSUE.
IS THERE ANY POINT IN IT
BEING AN ISSUE ANYMORE?
ISN'T IT A DONE DEAL UNLESS
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMES
THROUGH?
LINDA?

Linda says WELL, IF THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT DECIDES TO HAVE A
FEDERAL ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENT THAT PUTS THE
CONTRACT ON HOLD.

David says IT WOULD ACTUALLY RIP UP
THE CONTRACT.
I'M NOT SURE IT'S A DONE
DEAL.
I THINK IF THE PEOPLE OF
TORONTO ELECTED A COUNS
THEY'LL WANTED TO GET OUT OF
THE AGREEMENT AND THE PEOPLE
WHO CAN VOTE BECAUSE THEY
HAVE MUNICIPAL COUNCILS NEAR
THE MINE, ELECTED COUNCILS
WANTED TO GET OUT OF THE
DEAL THE DEAL WOULD BE OVER.

Maureen says OKAY.
LET'S GO TO CAROLINE IN
WINDSOR.
HI, CAROLINE.

The Caller says I WAS WONDERING IF
MAY SOUND NASTY AT FIRST.
WHERE DOES TORONTO GET OFF
TRYING TO DISPOSE THEIR OWN
GARBAGE.
OTHER CITIES AND PROVINCES
MAY HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF
DPASHAGE BUT WE'RE DOING
TOBOGGAN, PARKS.
IF THEY'RE MAKING THE
GARBAGE DON'T TRY TO PUT IT
ON SOMEBODY ELSE.
I FEEL BAD FOR KIRKLAND
LAKE.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TIRE
RECYCLING COMPANIES COMING,
PCB, COMPANIES DEALING WITH
PCB.
ULTIMATELY, WHAT DOES THAT
MEAN TO THE HEALTH OF THE
PEOPLE SHE'S SO WORRIED
ABOUT GETTING JOBS FOR, WHEN
ULTIMATELY THERE IS AN
ILLNESS FACTOR HERE THAT CAN
HAPPEN LIKE WE'VE READ IN
ALL KINDS OF STORIES THAT
THESE KIND OF THINGS HAPPEN TO?

Maureen says I MUST SAY I
FELT FRANCO'S PHONE CALL WAS
A LITTLE DEPRESSING WHEN THE
ONLY COMPANIES WAITING TO
GET INTO KIRKLAND LAKE ARE
COMPANIES THAT MAKE
ENVIRONMENTALLY HEALTH RISKY...
TIRE RECYCLING, PCB.

Linda says WE HAVE DECIDED TO TELL A
THEME OF ENVIRONMENTAL
SOLUTIONS.
EVERYWHERE IN ONTARIO YOU
HAVE CONTAMINATED SOIL.
EVERYWHERE IN ONTARIO OUR
STORAGE OF TRANSFORMERS THAT
ARE CONTAMINATED BY PCBs,
THAT NOTHING IS BEING DONE
WITH AND THAT ARE PROVIDING
A HEALTH HAZARD THROUGHOUT
THE PROVINCE AND THROUGHOUT
THE COUNTRY.
WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS
PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY TO
CLEAN UP, TO CLEAN UP THOSE
AREAS AND TO GET RID OF
THOSE TRANSFORMERS.

Maureen says SO THERE'S A NICHE
MARKET HERE.

Linda says THERE IS.

Maureen says ARE YOU WANTING
TO GET IN THERE OUT OF
DESPERATION BECAUSE KIRKLAND
LAKE IS SO ECONOMICALLY
DEPRESSED?

Linda says CERTAINLY, WE'RE
ECONOMICALLY DEPRESSED, BUT
WE'RE ALSO NOT SITUATED IN A
PART OF THE PROVINCE THAT
LENDS ITSELF TO HAVING AN
AUTOMOBILE PLANT.
WE'RE NOT AS ACCESSIBLE AS
ALLISON IS FOR INSTANCE.
SO WE RECOGNIZE THAT OUR
OPPORTUNITIES ARE FEWER THAN
EXIST IN BARRIE OR AURILIA
OR WINDSOR OR KITCHENER.
HE HAVE TO ACCEPT THE
REALITIES AND MOVE ON.

Maureen says IT'S HARD TO
ARGUE WITH THAT.

David says KIRKLAND LAKE HAS TO
PURSUE ITS OWN FUTURE.
BUT IT'S CLEAR JUST ON THE
ADAMS MINE ISSUE AT AN
ABSOLUTE MINIMUM IT'S REALLY
CONTROVERSIAL.
THERE THERE'S A HUGE
ENVIRONMENTAL RISK.
I THINK THE CALLER WAS RIGHT
IN THE FIRST STATEMENT.
TORONTO SHOULD BE DEALING
WITH THIS ISSUE ITSELF.
WE KNOW WE CAN.
THAT'S THE FRUSTRATING
THING.

Maureen says THAT'S ECHOED IN
AYE AN E-MAIL HERE.
I BELIEVE WE'RE RESPONSIBLE
FROM OUR OWN GARBAGE.
TORONTO HAS HAD TEN YEARS TO
COME UP WITH AN APPROPRIATE
PLAN.
GASH SAJY RESOURCE TO BE
UTILIZED.
I ALSO BELIEVE WE IN THE
NORTH LOOK DOWN OUR NOSES TO
THOSE CITIES THAT WANT TO
SHIP GARBAGE INTO THE
BACKYARDS.
WE NEED TO GET OFF OUR HIGH
HORSES SOON.
WE TOO ARE RUNNING OUT OF
HOLES TO FILL.
JUST ASK KENORA.
MY FAMILY COMPOST WHICH IS
EASY ENOUGH, BUT WE TAKE OUR
SEE CYCLEABLES TO THUNDER
BAY ONE AND A HALF HOURS
AWAY.
THE TRASH THROUGHOUT TOWN IS
FULL OF GLASS, CARDBOARD,
PAPER AND ALUMINUM CANS.
ALUMINUM CANS ARE WORTH
MONEY AND THEY'RE NOT
RECYCLED.
WE IN THE NORTH SHOULD NOT
SIT IN GLASS HOUSES AND
THROW STONES.
YOU RECYCLE IN KIRKLAND LAKE?

Linda says ALL WE CAN AFFORD TO HAVE
AT THE MOMENT IS PRETTY MUCH
A BASIC VOLUNTARY RECYCLING
PROGRAM.
WE'RE AVERAGE 30G TO 0 percent
PARTICIPATION ON THAT.
ACROSS THE PROVINCE ONLY
ABOUT HALF OF ALL ALUMINUM
SOFT DRINK CANS ARE SEEIC --
RECYCLED.
WE CAN DO MUCH BETTER THAN
THAT.

David says WE CAN ALL DO MUCH BETTER.
I THINK THE E-MAIL IS GREAT
AS SAYING GASH SAJ A
RESOURCE.
THE MINDSET THAT 0 SAY WE'RE
GOING TO SHIP 1.3 MILLION
TONS OF GARBAGE A YEAR AND
DUMP IN A HOLE THAT DOESN'T
SEE THE MINDSET AS GARBAGE
AS A RESOURCE AND DOESN'T
UNDERSTAND YOU CAN REALLY
RADICALLY REDUCE IF YOU
START THE RIGHT WAY.

Maureen says AND YET I HEARD
AND TELL ME IF THIS IS TRUE
THAT THE TIPPING FEES THAT
ARE GOING TO BE CHARGED TO
TORONTO TO SEND TO ADAMS
MINE ARE SO LOW THAT
RECYCLING THESE OTHER
DIVERSION PROJECTS CAN'T
COMPETE WITH THE VERY LOW
SHIPPING FEES.

David says THAT'S NOT TRUE.
FIRST OF ALL TO GO TO ADAMS
MIND YOU ALSO HAVE TO SHIP
GARBAGE TO THE U.S. IN THE
TRANSITION PERIOD.
IF WE CONTINUE TO SHIP
GARBAGE TO THE U.S. IT'S
ACTUALLY MARGINALLY CHEAPER
FOR US TO DO THAT THAN IT IS
TO GO TO ADAMS MIND.
WE WERE RUNNING A PILOT
COMPOSTING PROJECT IN
TORONTO RIGHT NOW TO SEE IF
MASS COMPOSTING WILL BE
SUCCESSFUL.
AND WE'RE BEING CHARGED 55 dollars
A TON, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY
MORE THAN ADAMS MINE AND THE
SAME MAGNITUDE OF COST.

Maureen says OKAY.
SORRY.
DID YOU WANT TO SAY
SOMETHING?

Linda says EVEN IF -- WHEN TORONTO
IT'S NOT EVEN.
IF IT'S INEVITABLE ALL MAJOR
CITIES ARE GOING TO START.
EDMONTON, GUELPH, THEY HAVE
BEEN THE LEADING
MUNICIPALITIES.
THEY'RE SETTING THE
STANDARD.
BUT THEY HAVE ALSO IN NEED
OF LANDFILLS.
CANADIAN WASTE SERVICE IS
PROVIDING THAT SERVICE TO
EDMONTON, HALIFAX.

Maureen says WHAT SERVICE DO
YOU MEAN?

Linda says LANDFILL SERVICE.
CANADIAN WASTE SERVICE.

Maureen says OH, I SEE.
THEY PICK IT UP AND TAKE IT
TO LANDFILLS.

David says THERE IS SOME RESIDUE.
IT'S AN ISSUE OF WHAT YOU DO
WITH THE RESIDUE.
LINDA IS QUITE RIGHT.
THE ISSUE FOR TORONTO IS BY
COMMITING TO THIS CONTRACT
ALTHOUGH THERE ARE WEASEL
WORDS TO PRETEND TO SAY
WE'RE GOING TO REDUCE REALLY
BY COMMITTING TO THE
CONTRACT, WE'RE COMMITTING
TO SHIP 1.3 MILLION TONS OF
GARBAGE THERE.
AND IT'S NOT A SURPRISE
BECAUSE THIS PROJECT HAS
ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE THAT MUCH
MONEY TO BE ECONOMICALLY
VIABLE.
THEY HAVE TO REBUILD THE
RAILROAD TO DO THIS.

Maureen says NOW I HEARD
THOUGH THEY'RE SAYING THERE
IS NOTHING -- THERE'S NO
MINIMUM AMOUNT TOUGHER TO
SEND TO ADAMS MINE.
IF WE WANT TO START
DIVERTING NOW WE CAN AND
THEY CAN'T FORCE TO INCREASE
THE LOADS.

David says YES, THEY ARE SAYING THAT.
WHEN YOU READ THE FINE PRINT
OF THE CONTRACT THAT'S NOT
EFFECT BECAUSE THE VERY
CLAUSE THAT SAYS THAT YOU
CAN DIVERT MAKES THAT VERY
DIFFICULT.
AND YES, IT GIVES US SOME
ROOM TO DIVERT.
THAT'S TRUE.
BUT IT DOES MAKE IT VERY,
VERY HARD.
THERE'S A BUYOUT CLAUSE.
THE PRESS HAS REPORTED IT'S
FOR 107 MILLION dollars.
NOW WHY WOULD WE NEED TO PAY
107 MILLION dollars TO BUY OUT OF
THIS CONTRACT AFTER TEN
YEARS IF THERE'S NO MINIMUM?
IT'S JUST -- IT'S NOT TRUE
AND IT'S NOT ECONOMICALLY
FEASIBLE.
THEY CAN'T BUILD THE ADAMS
MINE AS A DUMB UNLESS THEY
KNOW THEY'RE GETTING 1.3
TONS OF GARBAGE A YEAR.
NO INVESTOR IN HIS RATIONAL
MIND WOULD MAKE THAT
INVESTMENT.

Maureen says DO YOU HAVE
THOUGHTS ON THIS?
DO YOU AGREE WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO SEND A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF garbage UP THERE?

Linda says I THINK THAT THE COMPANY
IS GOING TO NEED TO -- IN
ORDER TO GET THEIR MONEY
BACK THEY'RE CERTAINLY GOING
TO NEED 1.3 MILLION TONS A
YEAR IT.
DOESN'T SAY THEY HAVE TO GET
IT FROM TORONTO OR YORK OR
PEEL OR DURHAM.
I THINK THAT IF THESE
MUNICIPALITIES THAT THE CITY
OF TORONTO OR THE REGIONS
ARE COMMITTED TO DIVERTING
WASTE, THEY CAN DO SO AND
TILL HAVE LANDFILL.
IT WILL BE UP TO THE COMPANY
THEN.
IF THERE'S A SHORTFALL OF
THE 1.3 MILLION TONS THEY
CAN PUT IN THERE AND YOU'RE
UNDER THE CERTIFICATE THEY
HAVE TO FIND OTHER
CUSTOMERS.

Maureen says LET'S GO TO BRUCE.

The Caller says HI.
CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY?

Maureen says YES.

The Caller says WHAT AMAZES ME THE MOST IS
AFTER FIVE OR SIX YEARS
SITTING ON COUNTY COMMITTEES
DEALING WITH THE WASTE
MANAGEMENT ISSUE THERE ARE
STILL PEOPLE AROUND WHO FAIL
TO UNDERSTAND OR LOOK THE AT
FACT WE CAN RECYCLE CLOSE TO
100 percent OF OUR SOLID WASTE.
I'VE BEEN THROUGH THE PLANT
IN THE REGION OF PEEL THAT
CAN PROCESS 100 percent OF IT.
ANYTHING THAT CAN'T BE
RECYCLED IT BECOMES DRY AND
NONHAZARDOUS.
IT COULD BE LANDFILLED IF
NECESSARY.
I'VE BEEN THROUGH NEW MARKET,
THE COMPOSTING PLANT IN
GUELPH.
ALL OF THESE FACILITIES THE
COMPOSTING CAN REMOVE 50 percent OR
MORE.
THE ONE IN PEEL CAN DO CLOSE
TO 100 percent.
THERE'S 1 OR 2 percent GRIT LEFT
OVERUSED FOR WALKWAYS AND
OTHER THINGS.
THE ISSUE HERE IS REALLY NOT
ABOUT GARBAGE.
IT'S ABOUT MONEY --
[COUGHS]
EXCUSE ME.
THIS IS THE THING DRIVES THE
WASTE MANAGEMENT ISSUE.
PEOPLE CAN McMORE MONEY
ABOUT DUJ GARBAGE THAN THEY
CAN ABOUT RECYCLING IT.
IF YOU RECYCLED 100 percent OF
TORONTO'S WASTE THROUGH THE...
PLANT PRODUCE A PRODUCT
THAT GENERATES CLEANER THAN
BROWN COAL, WE CAN PUT FIVE
OR SIX OR TEN PLANTS,
200,000 TONS A YEAR IN THE
CITY OF TORONTO IN LESS THAN
FIVE ACRES EACH AND WE WOULD
BE GENERATING A FUEL THAT
BURNS CLEANER THAN BROWN
COAL BUT REPRESENTS 5 percent OF
HYDRO--

Maureen says I'M SORRY, BRUCE, TO
INTERRUPT BUT ISN'T IT TRUE
IN EDMONTON WITH THE PROGRAM
THEY HAVE THERE THE CITY
ITSELF ACTUALLY OWNS SOME OF
THE RECYCLING PLANTS.
SO ANYTHING THAT GETS
PRODUCED OR SOLD THE CITY
MAKES MONEY OFF ITS OWN
GARBAGE.

David says THAT'S RIGHT.
INCLUDING, THEY HAVE AN
ARRANGEMENT WITH ALBERTA GAS,
I THINK IT IS, THE METHANE
GAS THAT IS PRODUCED IS SOLD
AS WELL.
THAT'S ONE OF THE HUGE
BENEFITS OF THE ANAEROBIC
DIGESTION IF IT'S DONE ON A
MASS SCALE YOU CAN ACTUALLY
PRODUCE ELECTRICITY IN AN
ENVIRONMENTALLY POSITIVE
WAY.

Maureen says WHAT'S THE
PROBLEM HERE?
IF WE THINK THERE'S MONEY TO
BE MADE OFF OF IT AS BRUCE
SAID, IS IT THE INITIAL
START OF COST, THE BUILDING
OF PLANTS, THE NEW TRUCKS
THAT ARE NEEDED?

David says THERE ARE TWO OR THREE
THINGS THAT NEED TO COME
TOGETHER.
THE FIRST IT S POLITICS.
THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT
HAS DONE INCREDIBLE THINGS
TO MAKE SURE THIS HAS
HAPPENED.
THE SECOND IS COST.
THERE IS AN INITIAL UP FRONT
INVESTMENT TO DO THE KIND OF
ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS.
AND THE THIRD IS
CONSERVATISM IN THE CIVIL
SERVICE.
YOU KNOW, THE ENGINEERS ARE
TERRIFIED THAT WE'LL END UP
WITHOUT A SOLUTION.
THIS IS A 20-YEAR CONTRACT.
IT'S A SOLUTION IF YOU DON'T
CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.
AND, YOU KNOW, CIVIL
SERVANTS ARE PAID TO BE
REALLY CONSERVATIVE.
THEY HAVE BEEN UNBELIEVABLY
CONSERVATIVE WAY TOO MUCH IN
TORONTO OVER THE LAST TEN
YEARS.
WE COULD HAVE BEEN PURSUING
ALL THE THINGS BRUCE IS
TALKING ABOUT AND OTHERS,
AND NOT JUST -- I SHOULDN'T
BLAME THE CIVIL SERVANTS.
THE POLITICIANS IN TORONTO.
BECAUSE WHEN JACK CLAYTON
MOVED IN 1996, THAT WE HAVE
A TARGET OF 75 percent DIVERSION
WHICH NOW EVIDENCE SHOWS WE
WOULD HAVE REACHED.
IT WAS VOTED DOWN.
I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY AS
POLITICIANS AND MAKE THE
RIGHT CHOICES AND HAVE
VISION AND LEADERSHIP.
THAT, FRANKLY, HASN'T BEEN
THERE.

Maureen says YOU KNOW, LINDA,
NOW THAT WE KNOW WE HAVE
ADAMS MINE FOR 20 YEARS WHAT
IS THE IMPETUS FOR TORONTO
COUNCIL to START LOOKING AT
A NEW SOLUTION FOR
DIVERSION?
THESE COUNCILLORS WON'T BE
AROUND IN 20 YEARS.

Linda says WELL, I THINK YOU'RE
ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE
LIKE DAVID MILLER AND JACK
CLAYTON WHO ARE GOING TO
INSIST THAT THESE PROGRAMMES

David says I WOULDN'T MIND.

Linda says I THINK YOU ALWAYS WILL.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE
AND MORE PEOPLE.
ESPECIALLY AS OUR YOUNGER
PEOPLE COME OUT OF
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND
SECONDARY SCHOOL THEY ARE
ALREADY LEARNING THIS WE
HAVE TO RECYCLE, THAT YOU
HAVE TO PUT YOUR POP CAN IN
A RECYCLING BIN.
YOU DON'T PUT IT IN THE
GARBAGE.
JOHN JACKSON EARLIER IN THE
PROGRAMME SAID THAT THE
PROVINCE HAS SHOWN A LACK OF
LEADERSHIP IN THIS REGARD,
TOO, BY ABANDONING
MUNICIPALITIES AND THEIR
EFFORTS FOR RECYCLING
PROGRAMMES.
I THINK THE PROVINCE HAS TO
TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR
NOT PROMOTING AND NOT
ASSISTING MUNICIPALITIES AND
THEIR EFFORTS TO RECYCLE
MORE.

Maureen says BRUSHTION I WANT
TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR CALL.
JOHN IN OTTAWA.
HI, JOHN.

The Caller says HELLO, GOOD DAY.
I LIVE IN OTTAWA RIGHT NOW
BUT I USED TO LIVE IN
TIMMINS, ONTARIO.
I USED TO WORK IN THE MINES UP.
THERE ALL THE MINES UP THERE
THAT ARE ARE NOT IN
OPERATION RIGHT NOW ARE FULL
OF WATER.
THAT MEANS THAT THE GROUND
LEAKING, BECAUSE THE MINES
THAT ARE WORKING HAVE TO BE
PUMPED.
THEY HAVE TO BE PUMPED OUT
CONSTANT HIS OTHERWISE THEY
FILL UP WITH WATER.
SO THERE IS DEFINITELY WATER
THAT ARE GOING TO SEEP
THROUGH THE ROCKS INTO THE
WATER TABLE.
WHAT BOTHERS ME IS I LIVE
DOWN WATT RIVER.
THE HEAD WATERS OF THE
OTTAWA RIVER START UP AROUND
THAT AREA.
IT'S NOT JUST KIRKLAND LAKE,
IT'S AFFECTING OTTAWA, IT'S
AFFECTING PINBROOK, ALL THE
WAY UP.
SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY
THEY THINK IT'S JUST TORONTO
AND KIRKLAND LAKE'S PROBLEM.

Maureen says YEAH, YOU KNOW
WHAT THE IRONY IS I'M MAKING
THIS GARBAGE IN TORONTO AND
I HAVE A COTTAGE ON RIVER.
SO IF IT DOES LEAK I'M GOING
TO GET MY GARBAGE BACK IN MY
DRINKING WATER.
YOU GUYS HAVE ENGINEERS WHO
SAY IT WILL NOT LEAK IT.
WILL BE SAFE.
BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHERS,
INDEPENDENT GUYS WHO SAID
NOT TRUE THIS.
HASN'T BEEN TESTED ANY.
WHERE THIS HYDRAULIC PUMPING
EXCEPT ON COMPUTERS.
WHAT WILL YOU BE LOOKING FOR
AS FAR AS ENVIRONMENTAL
TESTS AND THINGS?
WHEN WILL YOU START LOOKING
FOR IT?
HOW SOON AFTER THE GARBAGE
ARRIVES?

Linda says WELL THERE'S GOING TO BE
AN ENVIRONMENTAL PERSON THIS
WORKS RIGHT ON SITE IT.
BECOMES THE RESPONSIBILITY
OF THE MINISTRY OF
ENVIRONMENT TO MONITOR THE
SITE.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE UP TO
THE TOWN OF KIRKLAND LAKE TO
HAVE PEOPLE THERE OR THE
TOWN OF INGLEHART OR THE
TOWN OF LAUDER LIKE IT HAVE
TECHNICIAN THERE'S
MONITORING IT.
BECOMES A MONITORED LANDFILL
SITE.
THERE ARE PROBABLY HUNDREDS
OF LANDFILL SITES THROUGHOUT
PROVINCE THAT AREN'T CURRENT
HIS MONITORED AT ALL.

Maureen says THERE ARE PEOPLE
IN WALKERTON SCREAMING AT
YOU NOT TO TRUST THE
MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT TO
DO ALL YOUR WATCHDOGGING FOR YOU.

Linda says I THINK IN THE YEARS TO
COME THE MINISTRY OF
ENVIRONMENT IS PROBABLY
GOING TO BE MORE -- GOING TO
BE DOING THEIR JOB A LOT
BETTER THAN THEY HAVE IN THE
LAST TEN YEARS.

David says THEY'LL HAVE TO REHIRE
THE MINISTRY OF THE
ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE THE
HARRIS GOVERNMENT HAS CUT
75 percent OF ITS BUDGET.
ONE OF THE FEARS I HAVE IS
NOT THE MINISTRY OF THE
ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S THE COMPANY THAT'S
RUNNING THIS.
IT'S WASTE MANAGEMENT
INCORPORATED.
IT'S A LARGE U.S.
CORPORATION, WHICH HAS BEEN
CONVICTED OF IMPROPER
PRACTICES IN ITS LANDFILLS
IN THE U.S., AND IT'S ALSO
BEEN SUED SUCCESSFULLY BY
PLAINTIFFS ABOUT BAD
ENVIRONMENTAL PRACTICES AND
THEIR ALLEGATIONS OF
CORPORATE FRAUD THAT I THINK
WERE SUCCESSFULLY PROSECUTED
AGAINST THIS COMPANY
RELATING TO THE WAY IT RUNS
ITS DUMPS.
AND I THINK IT'S VERY SCARY
GIVEN THE RISKS AND THE LACK
OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHEN THIS
KIND OF IDEA OF RUNNING A
PUMP FOR 120 YEARS -- YOU
HAVE TO RUN A PUMP FOR 120
YEARS, 24 HOURS A DAY, TO
KEEP THAT -- THAT'S EVEN
UNDER THE GOOD SCENARIO TO
KEEP THE WATER BEING
POLLUTED.
TO PUT THAT IN THE HANDS OF
A COMPANY THAT HAS A PROVEN
TRACK RECORD OF DELIBERATELY
NOT FOLLOWING THE LAW IS
ABSOLUTELY INSANE.

Maureen says BUT DOES LINDA HAVE A
GOOD POINT THAT AFTER
WALKERTON THE ENVIRONMENT OF
MINISTRY IS GOING TO BE MORE
VIGILANT?
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE
OR THEY'RE GOING TO OPEN
THEMSELVES UP TO ALL KINDS
OF LAWSUITS.

David says NO, I RESPECT her VIEW OF THE MINISTRY OF
ENVIRONMENT.
I THINK THE EMPLOYEES ARE
THANKLESS.
THERE AREN'T ANY EMPLOYEES.
WHAT THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT HAS DONE TO THE
ENVIRONMENT MINISTRY IS A
TRAGEDY.
IT'S DIRECTLY RESULTED IN MY
VIEW TO THINGS LIKE
WALKERTON.
TO EXPECT UNLESS THERE'S A
CHANGE OF PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT TO BE EFFECTIVE
MONITORING IS IMPOSSIBLE.
THERE AREN'T THE PEOPLE TO
DO IT.

Maureen says LET'S GET JACKIE
IN COBALT.
HI, JACKY.

The Caller says HI.
MY POINT THAT I'D LIKE TO
DISCUSS IS ABOUT THESE JOBS
THAT ARE GOING TO BE
AVAILABLE HERE IN KIRKLAND
LAKE.
I'M FROM COBALT MYSELF, BUT
YOU SAY THERE'S GOING TO BE
UP TO 80 JOBS.
BUT IN TWO OR THREE YEARS
ONCE THE DUMP IS UP AND
RUNNING HOW MANY OF THOSE
JOBS ARE GOING TO BE LEFT?
YOU'RE GOING TO BRING
SOMEBODY FROM THE MINISTRY
OF ENVIRONMENT.
WHERE'S THE CLOSEST MINISTRY
OF ENVIRONMENT?
THAT'S SOMEBODY COMING UP TO
TAKE A JOB UP HERE.
IT'S NOT SOMEBODY FROM
KIRKLAND LAKE.
HOW MANY JOBS ARE THERE FROM
KIRKLAND LAKE THAT PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO GET JOBS?
IT'S NOT HELPING THE ECONOMY
IN KIRKLAND LAKE AS IT IS NOW.

Maureen says SO YOU'RE
SKEPTICAL ABOUT THE 80 JOBS
PROMISED, HOW LONG THEY'LL
LAST AND HOW MANY -- HOW
TECHNICAL THEY'LL BE WHETHER
THEY'LL HAVE TO IMPORT
PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE THE
TOWN.

The Caller says EXACTLY.
RIGHT NOW AS IT STANDS MOST
OF THE PEOPLE IN KIRKLAND
LAKE ARE RETIRED MINERS OR
THEY'RE STUDENTS OUT OF THE
COLLEGE, BUT THOSE STUDENTS
AREN'T ALL FROM KIRKLAND
LAKE, EITHER.

Maureen says AND THEY
WOULDN'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE
YET.
THEY MIGHT NOT GET JOBS.
LINDA, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Linda says WELL, WE HAVE MAINTENANCE PEOPLE.
WE HAVE TECHNICIANS.
WE HAVE ADMINISTRATORS.
THE 80 JOBS ARE FOR WHEN THE
OPERATION IS RUNNING UP AND
FULL TIME.
THESE ARE 80 FULL-TIME JOBS
THAT WILL BE COMMITTED TO
RUNNING THE OPERATION.
THE MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT
PERSON SOMEBODY THAT HAS TO
BE ON SITE ALL TIME.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
MANAGERS.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE HEAVY
EQUIPMENT OPERATORS.
HEAVY EQUIPMENT MANAGERS
OPERATING THE EQUIPMENT.
THIS IS A FACILITY THAT'S
JUST AS TECHNICAL AS THE
PLANT IN INGLEHART.
THEY DIDN'T IMPORT PEOPLE TO
MANAGE THAT FACILITY THERE.
IN COBALT THEY'RE HAVING A
MILL THERE FOR COBALT.
THEY'RE NOT IMPORTING ALL
THE TECHNICIANS THERE.
THEY'RE HIRING LOCAL PEOPLE
FOR THOSE JOBS.
WE HAVE THE PEOPLE IN THE
NORTH.

Maureen says IF IT DOESN'T
TURN OUT TO BE THE 80
THOUGH.
IF THEY ONLY DELIVER 45.
WILL YOU BE DISAPPOINTED IN
THE COMPANY?

Linda says ABSOLUTELY.

Maureen says WILL YOU FEEL
YOU WERE LED ASTRAY?

Linda says CERTAINLY.

Maureen says ALL RIGHT.
THE OTHER QUESTION IS ABOUT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE
POSSIBILITY THAT THEY'LL
DEMAND AN ASSESSMENT.
ONE THING I HATE AS A
TAXPAYER, DAVID IS, HAVING
TO PAY FOR SOMETHING I NEVER
GET.
IF THE GOVERNMENT ORDERS THE
ASSESSMENT, THE COMPANY SAYS
THE DEAL IS OFF, WHAT WILL
THAT COST MUNICIPALITY?

David says NOTHING.

Maureen says WE CAN GET OUT
OF IT FOR THAT REASON WITH A
SNENT.

David says THAT'S RIGHT.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
ORDERS AN ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENT TERM OF THE
CONTRACT THAT IT'S RESCINDED
IN BOTH SIDES WALKWAY
WITHOUT LIABILITY OVER
RESPONSIBILITY.
I THOUGHT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
SHOULD ORDER AN ASSESSMENT.
THE DOWNSTREAM AREA HASN'T
BEEN ASSESSED.
IT WAS TRUE THERE WAS AN
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND
IT VOTED 2-1 IN FAVOUR OF
THE MINE.
BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE, AT LEAST
MY UNDERSTANDING IS, THAT
THE LAWYER WHO ACTED FOR THE
ADAMS MINE WAS ALSO HEAVILY
INVOLVED IN REWRITING THE
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT ACT
AND THIS HEAR WAS HELD UNDER
NEW AND VERY NARROW
CONDITIONS.
I CAN TELL YOU MAUREEN, I
WAS A LAWYER FOR NEARLY TEN
YEARS.
NOT ONCE WHEN I HAD A CASE
FOR A CLIENT DID THE
GOVERNMENT ONTARIO PHONE ME
UP AND SAY WOULD YOU LIKE TO
REWRITE THE LAW BEFORE YOUR
HEARING?
NEVER.
I THINK THAT'S VERY, VERY
UNUSUAL BEHAVIOUR ON BEHALF
Of the government.

Watch: Garbage