Transcript: Career Proofing | Oct 10, 2000

(music plays)
The opening sequence shows a wooden table with a small lit candle.
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: “More to life.”

Then, Karen Horseman sits in a studio with yellow walls and a small TV set in the background, which reads “More to life.”

Karen is in her thirties, short brown hair. She's wearing a gray blazer.

She says HELLO, I'M KAREN
HORSEMAN, SITTING IN FOR
MAUREEN TAYLOR.
WELCOME TO “MORE TO LIFE.”
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BE WHEN
YOU GROW UP?
CHANCES ARE YOU'VE ASKED
YOUR CHILD THAT QUESTION
LATELY, AND MAYBE YOU'VE
ASKED YOURSELF, ONE GERG
YOU'VE CHOSEN THE RIGHT
CAREER.
IF SO, STAY WITH US, BECAUSE
GUEST BARBARA MOSTS IS HERE
AND SHE'LL BE TAKING YOUR
QUESTIONS ON CAREER-PROOFING
YOURSELF AND CHILDREN.
PLUS SOME BOOKS TO GIVE
AWAYA PASS TO AN UPCOMING
CONFERENCE SO ALL OF THAT IS
COMING UP.
BUT FIRST, WE WANT TO LOOK
AT MENTORS FOR TEENAGERS.
HAVING SOMEONE OUTSIDE OF
THE FAMILY, AN EXPERIENCED
MENTOR ON THE OUTSIDE CAN BE
VERY ADVANTAGEOUS.
WE'RE GOING LOOK AT TWO
MENTORING PROGRAMMES AND THE
FIRST ONE IS CALLED “EACH
ONE TEACH ONE,” THE OTHER
ONE IS “WOMEN IN MOTION.”

A clip plays on screen. A rigid-hulled inflatable boat speeds on a lake.

Then, as clips show two women on the moving boat, a female voice says I'M READY IN A CAREER IN
THE MILITARY, AND LESLIE, MY
MENTOR IS HELPING ME THROUGH
THE APPLICATION PROCESS.

On the boat, a woman says SO WE CLIMB ON BOARD
SHIP --

Clips continue to show the women sailing the boat as the female voice says I DON'T KNOW, IT WAS JUST
GREAT TO BE ON THE WATER
AGAIN AND I CAN SEE MYSELF
DOING THAT IN THE FUTURE,
DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT,
THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE ONE
OF MY DUTIES.

The woman speaking appears on screen.
A caption reads “Daniella Cross. Mentee.”
Daniella is in her twenties, with long straight blond hair tied in a tight ponytail.

She says I'M APPLYING FOR ROYAL
MILITARY COLLEGE AND MY
MENTOR IS A RECRUITING OFFICER.
SO SHE'S ASSISTING ME IN THE
APPLICATION PROCESS AND
GUIDING ME AND TELLING ME
WHAT I HAVE TO DO AND REALLY
IT'S JUST SO BENEFICIAL
BECAUSE SHE HAS FIRSTHAND
EXPERIENCE IN THE MILL AND
SHE KNOWS WHAT IT'S REALLY LIKE.
AND SHE CAN TELL ME AND YOU
CAN'T GET THAT FROM WATCHING
A MOVIE OR READING A BOOK.
YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY SPEAK
TO SOMEONE.

Now two men sit in a café and talk. One is in his late forties and the other is in his twenties. They appear to be father and son, and are both clean-shaven and shaven-headed.

The father says SO HOW'S IT GOING?

The son says VERY GOOD.
VERY GOOD.

The father says WHAT COURSES ARE YOU
TAKING THIS YEAR?

The son says I'M TAKING AUTO
MECHANICS.
I'M TAKING COMPUTERS, AND
THEN ENGLISH.

Then, the son appears on screen alone with a caption that reads “Lance Henry. Mentee.”

He says WHAT I WANT TO GET OUT OF
THE JUNIOR MENTORING
PROGRAMME IS BASICALLY A
FRIEND AS SOMEBODY I CAN
CALL AND FIRM MY PROBLEMS TO
AND STUFF LIKE THAT SOMEONE
I CAN REALLY RELATE TO AND
TALK TO.
WE CAN JUST HAVE TEA, COFFEE,
JUICE, YOU KNOW, AND WE CAN
JUST SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT
LIFE, CHURCH, MUSIC,
ANYTHING.
IS.

Now Daniella walks into an office and meets a female officer who sits behind a desk.

The officer says HEY THERE.

Daniella says HOW ARE YOU?

The officer says GOOD.
BEEN BUSY, I UNDERSTAND?

Daniella says YES.

The officer narrates
AS FAR AS ACTUALLY
VOLUNTEERING TO PARTICIPATE
IN THE MENTOR SHIP PROGRAMME,
PROBABLY A COUPLE OF
REASONS.
AS A FEMALE, I'D LIKE TO BE
ABLE TO OFFER A GUIDANCE OR
BE A ROLE MODEL TO OTHER
FEMALES IN PARTICULAR.
AND AS FAR AS MY PROTÉGÉ, I
HOPE THAT I'D BE ABLE TO
OFFER JUST SOME GENERAL
SUPPORT IN ANY AREA, JUST
PROVIDING A LITTLE BIT OF
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND
WHERE MY CAREER PATH HAS LED
ME, OR MY EDUCATIONAL
EXPERIENCE HAS LED ME, AND
JUST BE ABLE TO OFFER A
LITTLE BIT OF GUIDANCE OR
SOME INSIGHT AS TO WHAT THEY
MAY EXPECT IN THE FUTURE.

In the interview, she concludes
says AND YOU'LL COMMENCE YOUR
RECRUIT FROM THERE.

Now a man in his thirties appears with the caption “Ebube Anizor. Mentor “Each one teach one.”

Ebube says I WISH THAT I HAD A
MENTOR WHEN I WAS IN
UNIVERSITY.
BECAUSE YOU LEARN YOUR
MISTAKES WHILE YOU'RE GOING
THROUGH THEM AND THEY'RE
COSTLY.
AT THAT POINT IN LIFE, THOSE
MISTAKES ARE COSTLY SO,
BASICALLY I HAD A YEAR THAT
WAS A WRITE-OFF.
SO IF I HAD KNOWN WHAT I
KNOW NOW, I WOULD HAVE
PERHAPS CHOSE MY CORES
DIFFERENTLY OR BETTER
FOCUSED WHERE I WAS GOING IN
TERMS OF MY TIME AND MY
PRIORITIES, ET CETERA, ET
CETERA.
SO I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO
HAVE A MENTOR.
BUT I WASN'T THAT SMART.

A clip shows Ebube showing Lance Henry into an office.

Ebube narrates
IT WAS DURING MY THIRD YEAR
IN UNIVERSITY THAT I DECIDED
TO BECOME A MENTOR.
I WAS STRUGGLING, BASICALLY
WITH GRADES, TIME
MANAGEMENT.
I WASN'T PUTTING THE RIGHT
PRIORITIES IN THE RIGHT
PLACE, SO I SAID IF I EVER
GET THROUGH THIS, IF I EVER
FINISH SCHOOL, THEN I WILL
BE A MENTOR.
SO AFTER I FINISHED MY LAST
YEAR'S SCHOOL I WENT TO EACH
ONE EACH ONE AND DECIDED TO
BE A MENTOR.
I HOPE TO GIVE A STUDENT, I
GUESS THE SKILLS TO AVOID
THE SAME MISTAKES THAT I
MADE.
KIND OF AFTER WORKING A
COUPLE YEARS, YOU REALIZE
HOW WRONG YOU ARE ABOUT
WORKING WHEN YOU'RE IN
SCHOOL.
SO, NURNGS RETROSPECT I CAN
GIVE A LOT IN TERMS OF WHAT
YOU ACTUALLY NEED WHAT
REALLY MATTERS, WHAT YOU
SHOULD PUT YOUR FOCUS IN
WHAT COURSES YOU SHOULD TAKE,
YOU KNOW, HOW THE REAL WORLD IS.
SO I HOPE TO GIVE MORE REAL
WORLD EXPERIENCE AND KIND OF
BETTER GUIDE WHO EVER MY
MENTEE MIGHT BE.

In a motorcycle shop, Lance’s father says I DON'T KNOW, WOULD YOU
CONSIDER BUYING A HARLEY?
LIKE YOUR MOM WOULD NEVER
LET YOU.

Ebube continues says WELL, LANCE IS RESERVED
AND SHICHLT I LIKE IN
GENERAL LANCE'S
GOOD-HEARTEDNESS AND HE HAS
THAT JUST KIND OF AN
EXUBERANCE.
HE HAS AN EXCITEMENT.
WHEN HE LIKES SOMETHING, HE
LIKES IT.
SO WHEN I SEE THAT, FOR
INSTANCE, LANCE IS
INTERESTED IN MOTORCYCLE,
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW TOO
MUCH ABOUT MOTORCYCLE, I
OFFER, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I CAN
HELP HIM FIND A SCHOOL OR
WHAFRT CASE MAY BE.

In the shop, Lance says THAT NOT BAD.

In his interview, he says HE'S VERY FUN TO BE WITH
BECAUSE HE'S AN OUTGOING GUY,
AND HE REALLY THINKS ABOUT
OTHER PEOPLE, NOT JUST
HIMSELF.
SO THAT'S WHY I REALLY LIKE
HIM.
AS A GOOD MENTOR.

Now Daniella’s Mentor, the officer, says JUST A QUICK TOUR OF THE OFFICE.

She shows Daniella around the office.

Daniella narrates I KNOW THERE ALWAYS HAVE
BEEN CHALLENGES FOR WOMEN IN
THE ARMED FORCES AS THERE IS
IN ANY PROFESSION.
AND THE THING IS THAT THIS
HAS CHANGED.
LIKE THERE HAVE BEEN SO MUCH
PROGRESS MADE WITHIN THE
PAST FEW YEARS THAT THERE
ISN'T REALLY THAT STRUGGLE
FOR EQUALITY ANYMORE.
THERE REALLY AREN'T
RESTRICTIONS, LIKE THAT
GLASS CEILING JUST DOESN'T
EXIST ANYMORE, IN THE
MILITARY, AT LEAST, BECAUSE
OF THE PROGRESS THAT HAS
BEEN MADE.

Lance says TO SEE A BLACK ROLE MODEL
IS REALLY, IS RELATIVELY
GOOD, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A
LOT OF HARD, BLACK WORKING
PEOPLE HERE BECAUSE MOST OF
THEM ARE OUT THERE DOING
DRIVE BYS AND STUFF LIKE
THAT, DOING DRUGS.
SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET
AROUND THIS PLACE AS A BLACK MAN.

Ebube says IT'S IMPORTANT FOR LANCE
TO HAVE A SUCCESSFUL BLACK
ROLE MODEL JUST TO KIND OF
GIVE HIM A LITTLE MORE
ACCURATE depiction OF
WHAT'S OUT THERE.
FOR INSTANCE WATCHING TV OR
WHATEVER MIGHT GIVE YOU A
SPECIFIC PERCEPTION, EVEN
WITHIN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY,
THIS IS ALL BLACKS CAN DO OR
I CAN DO.
SO IT'S GOOD TO SHOW AND
OTHER MENTEES THAT WE ARE
NORM MALG, DO NORMAL THING,
WE CAN BE SUCCESSFUL, WE ARE
SUCCESSFUL, WEAVER BEEN
SUCCESSFUL FOR YEARS, IT'S
NOT A NEW THING.

Daniella’s mentor reappears.
A caption reads “Lesley Searle. Mentor ‘Women in motion.’”

She says THIS IS WHERE, FOR MYSELF,
WITH THE CONTACT THAT I'VE
HAD WITH DANIELLA AS FAR AS
WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE 18
AGAIN, OR A REMINDER OF WHAT
HER CHOICES AND WHAT SOME OF
THE DEMAND OF HER LIFESTYLE,
AND A LOT OF THE TIMES THE
APPLICANTS THAT ARE COMING
INTO THE RECRUITING CENTRE
ARE GOING THROUGH THESE SAME
THINGS AND IT'S HELPED ME TO
REMIND MYSELF WHERE THEY'RE
AT IN THEIR LIFE.

Daniella says I'M HOPING THAT I'LL
REMAIN IN TOUCH WITH MY
MENTOR AFTER THE PROGRAMME
IS OVER.
WE HAVE DEVELOPED A GOOD
RELATIONSHIP NOW, AND
HOPEFULLY WILL REMAIN
FRIENDS AFTER THIS IS OVER,
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S SUCH
A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE
SOMEONE IN YOUR LIFE THAT
YOU CAN TALK TO AND THAT YOU
CAN AND ADVICE OF AND THAT
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AFRAID
OF BEING JUDGED BY.
YOU KNOW THEY'RE JUST GOING
TO GET AN HONEST AND THAT'S
GOING TO BE IN YOUR BEST
INTEREST.

Ebube says MENTORING LANCE HAS
SHOWED ME THAT FIRST OF ALL
IT'S NOT EASY TO BE A
MENTOR.
IT'S CAUSED ME TO KIND OF
REFLECT ABOUT HOW I USE MY
TIME.
WHERE I LAY MY PRIORITIES,
BECAUSE MENTORING REALLY --
YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO DO
A GOOD JOB, REQUIRES A LOT
OF YOU.
SO IT SHOWED ME IN A LOT OF
WAYS THAT I WAS SELFISH.
I THINK THE MENTOR GETS MORE
OUT OF IT THAN THE MENTEE,
TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
SO I'VE REALLY ENJOYED
MENTORING LANCE, AND WE'RE
JUST GETTING STARTED.
I'VE JUST STARTED TO GET TO
KNOW HIM AND I'M LOOKING
FORWARD TO A LONG TIME WITH HIM.

The clip ends.

Karen says WELL, MANY OF US
WISH WE HAD A MENTOR TO HELP
US GET PREPARED FOR THE WORK
WORLD.
WE'VE GOT SOME HELP AND SOME
ADVICE FOR YOU RIGHT NOW, A
MENTOR OF SORTS, AS WE'RE
JOINED BY BARBARA MOSES, A
CAREER SALES MANAGEMENT
EXPERT AND SHE'S HERE TO
TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT
CAREER-PROOFING AND HOW TO
COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR
CHILDREN ABOUT PICKING
CAREERS AND CAREER-PROOFING THEM.

Barbara is in her forties, with short wavy black hair. She’s wearing a black shirt and a silver necklace with matching earrings.

Karen continues WE'RE TAKING YOUR QUESTIONS
HERE IN TORONTO...

A caption appears on screen. It reads "416-474-2727. 1-888-411-1234."
It changes to “moretolife@tvo.org”

Karen picks up a copy of a book and says
WE HAVE TWO COPIES
OF BARBARA'S NEW BOOK TO
GIVE AWAY TO YOU, THE GOOD
NEWS ABOUT CAREERS, AND ALSO
TO THE CONFERENCE CALLED
“TIME FOR CHILDREN, WALKING
THE WORK-LIFE TIGHT ROPE.”
SO WE'LL ANNOUNCE THOSE WINS
AT THE END OF THE SHOW.
WELCOME, BARBARA, THANKS SO
MUCH FOR COMING IN.

Barbara says THANK YOU.

Karen says LET'S START OFF
WITH THE DEFINITION OF
CAREER PROOFING.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

The caption changes to "Barbara Moses. Author ‘Career intelligence.’"

Barbara says WELL, WE
CAN NEVER BE COMPLETELY
PROTECTED FROM THE FUTURE
BUT WE CAN PROVIDE OUR
CHILDREN SOME GUIDANCE SO
THAT THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY
TO NAVIGATE IN THE FUTURE.
CAREER PROOFING SOUNDS LIKE
COLD-PROOFING, WE CAN
GUARANTEE YOU NEVER GET THE
FLU OR COLD, WHICH AS IT A
HAPPENS RIGHT NOW I AM
SUFFERING FROM, BUT I THINK
IF WE HAVE SOME YOU SHOULD
UNDERSTANDING OF THE FUTURE
WHAT THE NATURE OF WORK IS,
AND IF WE PROVIDE THE
NECESSARY SUPPORT AND
NURTURANCE FOR OUR CHILDREN
NOW WE CAN HELP TO GET TO
THE FUTURE SAFELY.

Karen says WE WANT THEM TO
SUCCEED, BE HAPPY -- I
SHOULD REVERSE THE ORDER ON
THAT WE WANT THEM TO BE
HAPPY BUT DOES THAT MEAN IF
THEY COME TO US AND SAY “I
WANT TO BE A TEACHER OR
NURSE” YOU SUGGEST THAT WE
SHOULD SUGGEST THEY
SHOULDN'T BE THAT SPECIFIED?

Barbara says IT USED TO
BE PARENTS WOULD SAY I WANT
LITTLE JOHNNY OR PETER OR
BARBARA TO BE HAPPY.
I DON'T KNOW THAT PARENTS
EVEN WANT THAT ANYMORE.
I THINK THEY THINK THE WORLD
OF WORK IS SO SCARY, ALL THE
OLD PATTERNS HAVE BEEN
THROWN OUT THE WINDOW AND
THEY NOW SEE HAPPINESS AS A
KIND OF LUCKY, IT WOULD BE
A REALLY NICE THING TO HAVE
BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU
ASPIRE TO.

Karen says REALLY?
LIKE BY-PRODUCT OF THE JOB IF
YOU'RE LUCKY?

Barbara says YEAH, IF YOU'RE LUCKY.
NUMBER ONE, THEY FEEL
BECAUSE THE BAR IS SO HIGH,
NUMBER ONE, FIND WORK THAT
WILL ENABLE YOU TO KEEP YOUR
SHOW ON THE ROAD.
FIND WORK THAT HAS A
PROFESSIONAL NATURE OR IS
KNOWLEDGE-BASED SO THAT
YOU'RE SECURE IN THE FUTURE.
THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF PARENTS
THINK.
HOWEVER IN TERMS OF THE
SPECIFICITY OF ADVICE, WHAT
HAPPENS IS BECAUSE PARENTS
ARE SO ANXIOUS ABOUT GETTING
THEIR KIDS TO THE FUTURE
SAFELY THAT WHAT THEY DO OR
WHAT WE DO IS WE SEEK TO GET
THEM TO MAKE AS MANY EARLY
CAREER DECISIONS AS POSSIBLE
SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO
FIVE-YEAR-OLDS OR
SIX-YEAR-OLDS?
YOU SAY, IF THEY'RE PLAYING
WITH A DANE SOAR SET YOU'LL
SAY THINGS LIKE “OH, SHE
WANTS TO BE A
PALEONTOLOGIST.”
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO TEENAGERS
AS SOON AS THEY HIT THE AGE
OF 14 OR 15 -- I HAVE AN
18-YEAR-OLD -- EVERYONE'S
QUESTION IS TO MY SON “WHAT
ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN YOU
GROW UP?
THERE'S THIS FEELING THAT
YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU
WANT TO BE WHEN YOU GROW UP.

Karen says THAT'S RIGHT.
BUT I HAVE CONFESSION TO
MAKE TO YOU.
BEFORE I HAD KIDS I SAID
THAT IF MY CHILDREN WANTED
TO BE HOT DOG VENDORS AND IT
MEANT THAT THEY WERE HAPPY I
WOULD BE RIGHT BEHIND THEM.
I WANTED TO THINK THAT ABOUT
MYSELF THAT I WAS GOING TO
BE SO OPEN AND UNDERSTANDING
THAT I WOULDN'T PUSH THEM.
I WOULDN'T PUT MY WISHES ON
THEM.
NOW THAT I HAVE TWO YOUNG
BOYS, ALL I'M THINKING OF IS
“PLEASE GO TO UNIVERSITY AND
BE SUCCESSFUL.”
AND I WANT THE BEST FOR YOU.
AND HOW DO I START EARLY IN
PLANTING THE SEED OF
EDUCATION AND SUCCESS?
AM I ONE OF THESE OBNOXIOUS
PARENTS THAT NEED TO BACK
OFF?

Barbara says WELL,
YES -- YES AND NO.
I THINK ALL PARENTS TODAY
SHOULD BACK OFF.
BECAUSE THEY'RE SO NERVOUS,
WHAT THEY TRY TO DO IS THEY
SEEK TO GET AS MUCH EXTRA
CURRICULAR ACTIVITY INTO
THEIR CHILDREN'S YOUNG
LIVES.
YET WE KNOW IN THE FUTURE,
KIDS ARE GOING TO BE
INHERITING A VERY FREE-FORM
WORLD.
CHARACTERIZED BY A LOT OF
COMPLEXITY, IT'LL BE
FREE-WHEELING, IT'LL BE
FLUID, YET WE HAVE OUR KIDS
PROGRAMED WITHIN AN INCH OF
THEIR LIFE.
YOU KNOW, FOUR O'CLOCK IS
PIANO AND FIVE O'CLOCK IS
BALLET.
AND EVERYTHING WE DO -- AND
I THINK THIS IS PARTICULARLY
TELLING, WE EVALUATE IN
TERMS OF WILL THIS HELP THEM
BECOME PREPARED FOR THE
FUTURE?
WILL THIS MAKE THEM
FUTURE-FIT WORKERS?

Karen says COMPUTER IS A GOOD
EXAMPLE FOR THAT.

Barbara says THAT'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE,
BUT YOU COULD TAKE ANYTHING.
INSTEAD OF SAYING SOMETHING
LIKE “MARY IS STUDYING THE
TUNDRA” IT'S “MARY IS
WORKING IN A TEAM
ENVIRONMENT WHERE SHE'S
PRACTICING LEADERSHIP SKILLS
AND SHE'S LEARNING ABOUT THE
GLOBAL ECONOMY.”
YOU KNOW, NOTHING IS A VALUE
FOR WHAT IT IS.
IT'S ONLY A VALUE TO THE
EXTENT THAT IT'S GOING TO
PREPARE YOU WITH THE KIND OF
SKILLS YOU NEED TO GET JOBS
IN THE FUTURE.

Karen says SO WHERE'S THAT
FINE LINE THEN?
BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING THAT
OFTEN WE'RE PUSHING TOO
HARD.
WE'RE ENROLLING THEM AND
PRESSURING THEM INTO,
FORMING THEM INTO THESE
LITTLE CAREER PEOPLE.
BUT WE SHOULDN'T BACK OFF
TOO MUCH THAT WE DON'T HELP
THEM WITH DIRECTION SO WHERE
DO WE COME IN THE MIDDLE?

Barbara says WELL, I
THINK IT'S A PARENT'S RULE
TO PROVIDE THEIR CHILDREN
WITH DIRECTION, BUT I DON'T
THINK THAT'S THE SAME THING
AS PROVIDING THEM WITH
CAREER DIRECTION.
WHAT I SEE AS MY ROLE AS A
PARENT IS TO ENSURE MY SON
IS THE BEST HE CAN BE.
I WANT HIM TO BE ABLE TO
THINK, I WANT HIM TO BE ABLE
TO EVALUATE INFORMATION, I
WANT HIM TO BE ABLE TO
PRESENT INFORMATION, I WANT
HIM TO BE CARING.
AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE
FUTURE, I WANT TO ENSURE
THAT HE CAN PARTICIPATE AS A
CITIZEN.
I THINK IF HE GETS THE BEST
POSSIBLE EDUCATION HE CAN,
AND IF I DON'T WORRY IN THE
NEXT WHILE HE GOES TO
UNIVERSITY ABOUT WHAT
SPECIFIC CAREER HE'LL END UP
WITH, I THINK IN FACT HE'LL
BE BETTER OFF.

Karen says BUT THEN HOW DO
YOU MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR
UNIVERSITY?
BECAUSE THERE ARE THE
LIBERAL ARTS DEGREES THAT
ARE GENERAL, BUT THERE'S SO
MUCH MORE CHOICE NOW TO GET
SPECIFIC AT THAT AGE 18 TO
CHOOSE THE FUTURE.

Barbara says I KNOW.
I KNOW, ACTUALLY I WORRY
ABOUT WHAT OUR GUIDANCE
COUNSELLORS ARE DOING?
WE'RE SEEKING TO MAKE KIDS
MAKE INCREASINGLY EARLY
CAREER DECISIONS.
I WORK WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE
IN THEIR 20s AND I CAN TELL
YOU, THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
MOST SUCCESSFUL ULTIMATELY
ARE NOT THE PEOPLE WHO KNEW
EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE GOING
TO BE WHEN THEY WERE 15.
THEY'RE THE ONE WHOSE AT THE
AGE OF 40 HAVE A MID-LIFE
CRISIS.
BUT IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO TRY
OUT DIFFERENT WORK
SITUATIONS.
THAT'S NOT TO SAY, WHICH I
THINK IS WHAT YOU'RE GETTING
AT THAT YOU DON'T START WITH
SOME GENERAL CONCEPTS.
SO MY ADVICE, FOR EXAMPLE,
FOR A 17-YEAR-OLD AND
18-YEAR-OLDS IS WHAT KINDS
OF THINGS DO YOU LIKE TO
THINK ABOUT?
WHAT WERE THE SUBJECTS THAT
REALLY ENGAGED YOU?
WHAT DID YOU GET GOOD
FEEDBACK IN FROM YOUR
TEACHERS?
WAS IT WRITING?
THINKING ABOUT HISTORY?
IN OTHER WORDS I DON'T
KNOW -- AND I REALIZE IT'S A
BIT OF A LUXURY BECAUSE
PARENTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT
THE COST OF AN EDUCATION,
BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT
EVERYTHING YOU DO IN TERMS
OF EDUCATION SHOULD BE ABOUT
PREPARING FOR JOBS AND I'LL
TELL YOU WHY.
I'VE SEEN TOO MANY PEOPLE
ENROLL IN A UNIVERSITY
PROGRAMME AT THE AGE OF 17
OR 18, ONLY TO DISCOVER WHEN
THEY GRADUATE THAT THEY HATE
THAT AREA.
OR THAT JOB DOESN'T EXIST.
SO I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS
THINKING ABOUT WHAT IT IS
THAT ENRICHES YOU AND THAT
YOU LIKE TO THINK ABOUT, AND
THE CAREER DECISIONS END UP
BEING BY-PRODUCTS OF THAT
PEOPLE DO END UP SORTING IT
OUT.
SOMETIMES PEOPLE GET OFF TO
A MORE DIFFICULT START, LIKE
IN THE VIDEO WE SAW, WHERE
HE SAID “I WAS THINKING
ABOUT IN THAT FELLOW WHO WAS
THE MENTOR WHO SAID HE
WASTED ONE OF HIS YEARS AT
UNIVERSITY, BECAUSE HE
DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE
WANTED TO DO.
I ACTUALLY THOUGHT WHEN HE
GETS TO BE 30 OR 35, I DON'T
KNOW HOW OLD HE IS, HE'S
GOING TO REALIZE THAT IN
FACT THAT WAS A GOOD-YEAR.
PEOPLE LEARN A LOT FROM
HAVING A LACK OF CHAIRT
TEAM.
JUST LUKE THEY LEARN A LOT
FROM FAILURE.
IF THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL RIGHT
FROM THE GET-GO AND THEY
HAVE CLEAR DIRECTIONS,
CAREER GOALS ALL THE TIME,
YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN
THEY HIT A BRICK WALL AT A
CERTAIN AGE, MAYBE THEIR JOB
IS RENDERED OBSOLETE, MAYBE
THERE'S A DOWN-SIZING, GO
THROUGH SOME KIND OF
MID-LIFE CRISIS, THE WORLD
FALLS APART.

Karen says THAT YEAR IS SPENT
KNOWING THAT YOU NEVER WANT
TO DO THAT JOB OR THAT NICHE
THAT HE MAY HAVE BEEN
EXPLORING.

Barbara says PRECISELY.

Karen says OKAY, WE'RE TAKING
QUESTIONS ABOUT
CAREER-PROOFING YOUR CHILD
BUT ALSO, MAYBE YOU'RE GOING
THROUGH THAT, AS BARBARA
SAID, THAT MID-LIFE CRISIS
WHERE YOU'RE SAYING “I DON'T
WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE.”
IF YOU'RE LOOKING ON ADVICE
ABOUT FIRST-STEPS FOR CAREER
CHANGE, WE'LL TALK ABOUT
THAT, TOO, WITH BARBARA MOSES.

The telephone numbers and email reappear briefly.

Karen says LET'S START OFF
WITH HEATHER WHO'S GOT A WE
QUESTION FOR US HERE ON
“MORE TO LIFE.”
HI HEATHER.

The Caller says HI.
I WAS WONDERING WITH JUST
THE REPORT IN THE PAPER THIS
WEEK ABOUT HOW HIGHLY
STRESSED PEOPLE ARE IN THEIR
CAREERS, THAT -- WOULD THE
FUTURE GO TO ORGANIZING
PEOPLE'S LIVES AND TAKING
COMMAND OF A SITUATION,
DELIVERING GROCERIES, TAKING
THE CAR FOR AN OIL PICK-UP,
WHICH MEANS YOU HAVE TO BE
HONEST, TEAM-SPIRITED AND
ORGANIZED, AND THEN THEY
WOULD RELY ON YOU BECAUSE
THEY'D NEED THAT IN A VERY
STRESSFUL LIFE?
WOULD CAREER OPPORTUNITIES
BE IN THAT FIELD?

Karen says SPECIFICALLY WHEN YOU SAY
THOSE QUALITIES, YOU MEAN IN
TERMS OF A PERSON WHO'S
GOING TO SELL THEMSELVES TO
A POTENTIAL EMPLOYER?

The Caller says YEAH, MORE IN A
SERVICE INDUSTRY, LIKE PLAN
A BIRTHDAY PARTY OR ORGANIZE
A WEEK?
I JUST THINK IF YOU'RE
ALWAYS INTO COMPUTERS AND
PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS INTO
COMPUTERS, YOU'VE ALSO GOT
TO HAVE A COMMON SENSE AND
INTUITION IN YOUR
PERSONALITY TO MANAGE AS
BEING A TEAM SPIRITED PERSON,
RATHER THAN ALONE IN AN
OFFICE?

Karen says YEAH, I THINK
HEATHER'S TALKING ABOUT THE
WELL-ROUNDED EMPLOYEE THAT
CAN PRESENT ITSELF NOT JUST
AS A COMPUTER TECHNICIAN,
RIGHT, BARBARA?
YOU WRITE ABOUT THAT MAKING
SURE THAT YOU ARE LEARNING
THESE fundamentals OF LIFE.

Barbara says YEAH,
EVERYONE NEEDS CERTAIN
SKILLS TO BE SUCCESSFUL.
I THINK WE'VE OVER-STATED
THE IMPORTANCE OF COMPUTER
SKILLS.
CERTAINLY THAT'S A MINIMUM
REQUIREMENT TODAY BUT WHAT'S
REALLY GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE
EFFECTIVE IS THE CAPACITY TO
MANAGE TIME.
FOR EXAMPLE THAT REPORT
ABOUT THE.
A STRESS PEOPLE ARE DEALING
WITH.
IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY
NO, IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO
BALANCE YOUR WORK AND
PERSONAL LIFE, THEN
BASICALLY YOU'RE GOING LOSE
IT.
SO YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO
MANAGE TIME, YOU NEED TO BE
ABLE TO COMMUNICATE.
YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO WORK
IN A TEAM ENVIRONMENT.
NOW OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT ALL
GOING TO HAVE THE SAME
AMOUNT OF SKILLS IN ALL
THESE AREAS, BUT IF YOU
THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE AND
THE FACT THAT THE FUTURE
WORK WORLD WILL BE VERY
ELASTIC, PEOPLE WILL BE
MOVING IN AND OUT OF
DIFFERENT LIFE SITUATIONS,
NO ONE'S GOING TO HAVE A JOB
FOR LIFE, YOU NEED TO BE
ABLE TO MANAGE YOURSELF.
AND THAT'S PERHAPS THE MOST
IMPORTANT SKILL PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO NEED TO HAVE IN THE
FUTURE.

Karen says WHAT ARE SO
MISTAKES, MESSAGES WE
PARENTS SEND TO OUR KIDS
WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE.

Barbara says OKAY, WELL
YOU'RE A PARENT WITH YOUNG
CHILDREN.
DO YOU COME HOME AT THE END
OF THE DAY AND SAY “OH, MY
BOSS IS SUCH A JERK!”
OR “OH, I'M SO WIPED.”
YOU KNOW, CONGRATULATIONS,
FOR ONCE YOUR KIDS ARE
LISTENING.
OR ELSE WHAT A LOT OF
PARENTS DO, PARTICULARLY
PARENTS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN,
WHEN THE KID IS CRYING AND
SAYING “PLEASE DON'T GO TO
WORK” YOU TURN AROUND AND
YOU SAY “MUMMY HAS TO WORK.”
INSTEAD OF SAYING “MUMMY
CHOOSES TO WORK.”
I THINK WE GIVE OUR KIDS A
VERY DISTORTED -- OR MAYBE
ACCURATE VIEW OF WORK, BUT
CERTAINLY WE PRESENT AN
IMAGE OF WORK TO OUR KIDS AS
SOMETHING THAT'S INCREDIBLY
DEMANDING, WHICH IT IS, THAT
TAKES UP TOO MUCH OF OUR
TIME, WHICH IN FACT IT DOES
IN MOST INSTANCES, AND THAT
WE RESENT.
AND SO PEOPLE COME HOME AND
THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR
BOSSES AND THEIR CLIENTS AND
THEN, YOU KNOW, THEIR KIDS
GROW UP, AND THEY'RE 21, 22,
AND THEY HAVE A VERY
AMBIVALENT VIEW ABOUT WORK.
AND SO I ALWAYS SAY
CONGRATULATION, FOR ONCE
YOUR KIDS WERE LISTENING.

Karen says ONE OF THE WOMEN
AT MY MOTHER'S GROUP
ACTUALLY SAID -- SHE'S A
STAY-AT-HOME MOM AND SHE
THREATENS THE KIDS WITH “IF
YOU KEEP UP THIS BEHAVIOUR,
MOMMY'S GOING BACK TO WORK.”
PRESENTING IT AS THE
ULTIMATE ESCAPE, WHICH YOU
KNOW, ON THE BAD DAYS IT CAN
LOOK THAT WAY.
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, EVEN TO
COME HOME AND SAY “I'M SO
TIRED.”
YOU KNOW WHAT?
I'VE BEEN AT WORK ALL DAY,
LET ME JUST GET THIS MEAL ON
THE TABLE.
THESE THINGS THAT YOU JUST
DON'T EVEN HEAR YOURSELF
SAYING, AND IF IT'S
HAPPENING DAY AFTER DAY,
THEY'RE GETTING THE WRONG
MESSAGE.

Barbara says NO QUESTION.
PLUS A LOT OF PEOPLE TODAY,
BECAUSE THEY'RE SO
OVERWORKED, THEY ARE TIRED,
THEY ARE GRUMPY, THEY'RE NOT
SLEEPING ENOUGH AT NIGHT.
AND SO THEY REACT PERHAPS
TOO QUICKLY TO SITUATIONS
WHICH REALLY SHOULD NOT BE
EXPLOSIVE.
SO IT'S NOT ONLY WHAT YOU
SAY ABOUT WORK, IT'S HOW YOU
REACT AS A RESULT OF THE
WORK.
AND SO KIDS LOOK AT THEIR
PARENTS AS BEING TIRED AND
GRUMPY AND THEY SAY YOU KNOW,
WHY WOULD I WANT THAT?
A LOT OF KIDS TODAY SEE
THEMSELVES AS THE ABANDONED
CHILDREN OF CAREER-OBSESSED
PARENTS.
AND WHAT'S PERHAPS EVEN MORE
TRAGIC IS I WORK WITH A LOT
OF -- AS I MENTIONED BEFORE,
A LOT OF 20-SOMETHINGSINGS
AND THEY'LL SAY THINGS LIKE
“YOU KNOW, MY DAD KILLED
HIMSELF OR MY MUM KILLED
HERSELF FOR THIS
ORGANIZATION, ONLY AT THE
AGE OF 40, OR WHATEVER, TO
BE TURFED OUT LIKE USED
KLEENEX.”
SO WE NEVER GOT TO SEE OUR
PARENTS WHEN WE WERE GROWING
UP AND ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE
OR HE IS FIRED AND THEY
CAN'T GET WORK.
AND THAT LEFT A VERY
PROFOUND BAD TASTE IN THE
MOUTHS OF THESE KIDS WHO ARE
NOW WORKERS.

Karen says AND FEAR, TOO.

Barbara says ABSOLUTELY.

Karen says SO HOW DO YOU
PARENT THE POSITIVE AND
REALISTIC?
BECAUSE YOU'RE SUGGESTING
THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL
ABOUT THOSE NEGATIVE
MESSAGES BUT WE HAVE TO
PRESENT A REAL WORLD TO THEM
AS WELL.

Barbara says ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK BEING REALISTIC
MEANS THAT YOU SHARE BOTH
THE POSITIVE ASPECTS OF WORK
AND THE NEGATIVE.
THE POSITIVE ASPECTS ARE
THINGS LIKE “YOU KNOW, THERE
WAS THIS INCREDIBLE PROJECT
AND I WAS REALLY WORRIED I
WASN'T GOING TO GET TO BE
INVITED TO BE ON IT” OR
“THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT
WASN'T WORKING” OR “I WAS
CONVINCED I WOULDN'T GET THE
BUDGET FOR WHATEVER IT IS.”
AND YOU DESCRIBE HOW YOU
SOLVED A SERIES OF PROBLEMS
AND WHAT IT FELT LIKE TO BE
SUCCESSFUL.
SO YOU COME HOME, YOU SAY,
“WOW!
I'M SO HIGH.”
YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT IT FEELS
LIKE TO HAVE AN ACHIEVEMENT.
TO HAVE AN ACCOMPLISHMENT.
I THINK THAT THE MAJOR THING
YOU WANT TO COMMUNICATE TO
YOUR KIDS IS THAT WORK IS
FINALLY ABOUT SOLVING
PROBLEMS AND RISING TO THE
OCCASION, BUT YOU ALSO WANT
TO SHOW THEM HOW YOU CAN'T
DO IT ALL YOURSELF, AND
SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T ALL
WORK OUT.
I MEAN, YOU DON'T -- THE
OTHER SIDE OF IT IS, YOU
KNOW, AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE
LOST THEIR JOBS, WHO THEN
TURN AROUND AND SAY “WELL, I
DON'T KNOW HOW TO
COMMUNICATE TO MY KIDS ABOUT
HOW I LOST MY JOB BECAUSE I
NEVER TOLD MY KID THAT WORK
WAS NOT PERFECT.”
AND SO SOME PARENTS GO THE
OTHER EXTREME AND THEY
PRESENT THIS KIND OF
POLLYANNAISH WORK VIEW THAT
IT'S ALMOST A FANTASY AND
THAT DOESN'T WORK EITHER.
I THINK YOU NEED TO TALK TO
YOUR KIDS ABOUT WORK AN
HONEST AND ACCURATE WAY.
WHAT ALWAYS SURPRISES ME --
I SKI IN THE WINTER, AND I'M
TAKING THE CHAIR LIFT, AND
I'LL TURN TO TEENAGERS AND
I'LL AND THEM, YOU KNOW, HOW
OLD ARE THEY AND WHAT DO
THEIR PARENTS DO?
AND YOU'D BE AMAZED AT HOW
FEW TEENAGERS -- AND I'M
TALKING ABOUT 14-YEAR-OLDS
AND 15-YEAR-OLDS, WHO
GRANTED ARE MAYBE GOING
THROUGH A PERIOD WHERE
THEY'RE RATHER SELF-OBSESSED
BUT DESPITE THAT THEY DON'T
KNOW WHAT THEIR PARENTS DO.

Karen says THEY DON'T KNOW
WHAT THEIR PARENTS GO OUT
THE DOOR TO EVERYDAY?

Barbara says NO.
THEY'LL SAY THINGS FOR LIKE
“WELL HE WORKS FOR A
TELEPHONE COMPANY” OR SHE
WORKS FOR A BANK OR THEY
MIGHT KNOW THE NAME OF THE
BANK BUT THEY UNDERSTAND
THEIR PARENTS' WORK IN ONLY
BROADEST OUTLINES.

Karen says THEY DON'T STATE
THAT THEY'RE AN ENGINEER
WORKING ON A MAJOR
PROJECT --

Barbara says NO, NO.
IT'D BE LIKE THEY'RE IN
BANKING.
OR SOMETHING TO DO WITH
MARKETING, OR SOMETHING TO
DO WITH PEOPLE OR “I THINK
HE'S AN EXECUTIVE.”

Karen laughs and then says
I THINK HE'S AN EXECUTIVE.
BUT HE GAVE ME SOME MONEY TO
GO SKIING SO I KNOW HE MUST
BE SUCCESSFUL.
WE'RE TAKING YOUR QUESTIONS
AND CALLS ON CAREER-PROOFING
YOUR CHILDREN, AND ALSO IF
YOU'RE READY TO MAKE A
CAREER CHANGE AND NEED SOME
TIPS AND ADVICE, OUR GUEST
IS BARBARA MOSES.
SHE IS A CAREER EXPERT.
LET'S GO TO LIZ WHO'S
CALLING IN FROM TORONTO NEXT
WITH A QUESTION.
HI LIZ.

The Caller says HI, HOW ARE YOU.

Karen says FINE, THANKS.

The Caller says GOOD!
I WAS INTERESTED, I WAS
WATCHING THE SHOW, I SEEM TO
BE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION.
MY SON IS 18 IN FIRST YEAR
UNIVERSITY RIGHT NOW, AND HE
IS IN A GENERAL PROGRAMME,
AND REALLY DOESN'T HAVE A
CLUE WHAT TO DO IN THE
FUTURE.
I WAS JUST WONDERING, WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN THEY'RE IN THIS
PROGRAMME FOR THREE OR FOUR
YEARS, THEY GRADUATE, THEY
HAVE THEIR DEGREE BUT THEY
STILL HAVE NO DIRECTION,
DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO
DO?
WHEN DO SORT OF THE PARENTS
JUMP IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW,
LET'S PUSH YOU IN THIS WAY
OR PUSH NEW THAT WAY?
LIKE WE'RE ALLOWING HIM NOW
TO MAKE ALL HIS OWN
DECISIONS AND PICK ALL HIS
OWN COURSES, AND WHEN DO WE
SORT OF PUT OUR FOOT DOWN, I
GUESS?

Karen says EXERT YOUR AUTHORITY?

Barbara says WELL
YOU'RE RAISING A VERY GOOD
QUESTION.
I GUESS THE FIRST THING I
WOULD ASK YOU, DO YOU THINK
YOUR SON WOULD PAY ATTENTION
TO YOU?
IF YOUR SON'S LIKE MINE,
MINE WOULDN'T.

The Caller says WELL HE LIKES TO
TALK ABOUT -- LOVES TO TALK
ABOUT HIS COURSES.
HE'S JUST COME BACK FROM
THANKSGIVING FROM HIS FIRST
SIX WEEKS AT UNIVERSITY.
HE LOVES TALKING ABOUT THEM,
BUT THERE WASN'T ONE
SPECIFIC THING, LIKE “OH,
I'M IN A FILM PROGRAMME, I
REALLY WANT TO BE IN FILM IN
THREE YEARS.”

Barbara says YEAH.
FIRST OF ALL THE CHANCES ARE
THAT YOUR KIDS ARE NOT GOING
TO LISTEN TO YOU WHEN YOU
GIVE THEM CAREER ADVICE.
THAT'S THE FIRST THING I
WOULD TELL YOU.
THE SECOND THING, WHICH
YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT,
IS THAT HE DOESN'T YET KNOW
WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.
VERY FEW STUDENTS KNOW,
PARTICULARLY AT THE END OF
FIRST YEAR, BECAUSE
BASICALLY IN FIRST YEAR, ALL
YOU'RE DOING IS A SURVEY
COURSE, AN OVERVIEW, YOU
KNOW, FROM SKY-HIGH OF
PSYCHOLOGY OR SOCIOLOGY OR
WHATEVER.
SO I REALLY WOULDN'T WORRY
ABOUT IT.
A LOT OF KIDS ALSO GRADUATE
FROM UNIVERSITY, STILL
WITHOUT ANY GREAT CLARITY,
BUT IN FACT THEY KNOW A LOT
MORE THAN THEY REALIZE.
THEY DO HAVE A SENSE OF
DIRECTION.
IF YOU SIT DOWN AND ASK THEM
THINGS LIKE “WHAT DO YOU
LIKE TO THINK ABOUT?”
OR “DO YOU LIKE TO WRITE?
DO YOU LIKE TO SOLVE
PROBLEMS?
DO YOU LIKE TO DO THINGS AS
PART OF A GROUP?
WHAT KIND OF PROJECTS DO YOU
LIKE TO WORK ON?”
THEY DO ACTUALLY END UP
FIGURING IT OUT.

Karen says BUT THERE ARE SOME
COURSES LIKE A GENERAL
BUSINESS COURSE THAUK SEE
THERE'S GOING TO BE ALL
SORTS OF OFF-SHOOTS.
A SCIENCE AT THE AGREE,
PERHAPS, BUT IT'S AGAIN
GETTING BACK TO THAT GENERAL
LIBERAL ARTS DEGREE THAT SO
MANY OF MY FRIENDS GRADUATED
WITH, AS LIZ WAS SAYING
AFTER THE FOUR YEARS, AND
STILL NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT
THEY'RE GOING TO DO.
AS A PARENT I'D HAVE A
PROBLEM WITH THAT.

Barbara says WELL THINK ABOUT THIS.
IF I WERE TO ASK YOU WHAT
KIND OF SKILLS WILL PEOPLE
NEED FOR THE FUTURE?
YOU'LL SAY THEY NEED TO BE
ABLE TO SOLVE PROBLEM,
INTERPRET INFORMATION, THEY
NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT
THEY'RE LIVING IN A GLOBAL
WORLD AND THEY NEED TO
MASSAGE INFORMATION.
THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO
COMMUNICATE, THEY NEED TO BE
ABLE TO READ AND UNDERSTAND
BROAD TRENDS, THEY NEED TO
BE FLEXIBLE AND CREATIVE AND
SO ON AND SO FORTH.
AND THEN IF I WERE TO SAY TO
YOU WHERE TYPICALLY DO THOSE
SKILLS COME FROM, YOU WOULD
PROBABLY SAY FROM SOMETHING
LIKE “A LIBERAL ARTS DEGREE.”
YO I DON'T BELIEVE THAT
THESE KIDS ARE NOT BEING
PREPARED FOR THE FUTURE.
I THINK IN FACT THAT THEY'RE
BEING EXTREMELY CAPABLY
PREPARED FOR THE FUTURE.
I DON'T THINK THAT THE BE
ALL AND END ALL IS
GRADUATING WITH YOUR
FOUR-YEAR BUSINESS DIPLOMA,
OUT THE DOOR AND INTO
WHATEVER COMPANY.
I THINK FOUR YEARS
UNIVERSITY -- FIRST OF ALL
EMPLOYERS INCREASINGLY ARE
HIRING PEOPLE LIKE THAT, BUT
THEN THEY MIGHT TO WANT DO A
MASTER'S DEGREE OR A
SPECIALIZED DIPLOMA.
FOR EXAMPLE A LOT OF PEOPLE
DO A BROAD GENERAL ARTS
DEGREE AND THEN DO A
ONE-YEAR JOURNALISM DIPLOMA.

Karen says BUT THE GOAL OF
ANY DEGREE OR DIPLOMA IS TO
GET A JOB.
SO AT THE END OF IT YOU
REALLY HOPE THERE IS A
COMPANY STANDING THERE WITH
THEIR DOOR OPEN, WANTING TO
HIRE YOU.

Barbara says TWO THINGS.
I THINK THERE ALWAYS WILL BE
A COMPANY STANDING THERE.
IT DONE MEAN THAT IF YOU
DON'T HAVE THE HIGH DEMAND
EDUCATION, WHICH IS
HIGH-TECH, ENGINEERING, YOU
KNOW, BIOTECHNOLOGY, THOSE
ARE THE ONES WHO ARE THE NEW
KNOWLEDGE ARISTOCRATS BEING
AGGRESSIVELY COURTED AS
EARLY AS FIRST AND SECOND
YEAR UNIVERSITY.
SO THEY'VE GOT GIFTS COMING
TO THEM FROM
ORGANIZATIONS --

Karen says THE FRUIT BASKETS.

Barbara says THAT'S RIGHT, AND THE
GOODIE BASKETS WHEN STUDYING.
BUT IN FACT LOOT OF MY
CLIENTS WORK IN FINANCIAL
SERVICE SECTOR IN HOTELS,
THERE ISN'T A SECTOR I DON'T
WORK WITH, THEY ARE HIRING
PEOPLE WITH THE KIND OF
GENERAL ARTS DEGREE.
SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING I
WOULD SAY.
NOW THEY MAY NOT GET A
STARTING SALARY AS HIGH AS A
PERSON WITH AN I.T. DEGREE,
OR THEY MAY NOT GET A JOB AS
QUICKLY, BUT THE SECOND
THING THAT I WOULD SAY IS I
DON'T THINK YOU GO TO
UNIVERSITY ONLY WITH AN EYE
TO THE FACT -- TO THE
THOUGHT THAT THIS IS MY
TICKET TO SUCCESS.
I THINK YOU GO TO UNIVERSITY
TO LEARN ABOUT THE WORLD.
YOU ALSO ARE EXPOSED TO A
WAY OF THINKING WHICH IN
TURN WILL BE INSTRUMENTAL IN
EARNING A LIVING.
BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S
SIMPLY THAT YOU GET A JOB AT
THE END.

Karen says OF COURSE I'VE GOT
TO BE CLEAR ON MY BIAS.
I WENT TO RYERSON FOR RADIO
AND TELEVISION ARTS SO, MY
CAREER WENT EXACTLY ON THAT
PATH.
THOUGH WHAT HAPPENED WITH
MEAN OF MY -- MANY OF MY
COLLEAGUES IS THEY GOT INTO
A COURSE, IF THEY DIDN'T
LIKE IT AT THE END OF THE
THREE YEARS, THEY SAID THEY
WASTED THEIR THREE YEARS
BECAUSE THEY ENDED UP IN A
SCIENCE AREA OR A SCIENCE
FIELD SO WHEN YOU GET THAT
SPECIFIC, THERE ARE
DRAW-BACKS BUT AT THE SAME
TIME YOU ARE ABLE TO GO
RIGHT INTO THE WORK FIELD
BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THIS.

Barbara says YEAH,
THAT'S EXACTLY -- YOU KNOW,
SOME KIDS ARE BORN WITH A
CLEAR PASSION.
LIKE YOU MAY HAVE BEEN BORN
KNOWING THAT YOU WERE
FASCINATED BY MEDIA AND YOU
LOVED TO WRITE OR LOVED TO
BE ON AIR AND THAT'S GREAT.
BUT VERY FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY
HAVE THAT.
IN CONTRAST, I COULD THINK
OF MYSELF, PLUS NUMEROUS
PEOPLE I KNOW WHO ARE
SUCCESSFUL.
AND I COULD TELL YOU THAT IF
YOU LOOK AT MOST SUCCESSFUL
PEOPLE, AND OBVIOUSLY THERE
ARE ALL KIND OF EXCEPTIONS
TO THE RULE, BUT MOST OF
THEM DO NOT DO THE STRAIGHT
OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, RIGHT
INTO THE PROFESSIONAL
DIPLOMA --

Karen says DIDN'T KNOW --

Barbara says THAT'S RIGHT.
YEAH.
I THINK PEOPLE LEARN AN
AWFUL LOT FROM THAT
EXPERIENCE OF NOT KNOWING
WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND THEN
ASKING YOURSELF SERIOUS
QUESTIONS.
LET'S SAY YOU GET INTO A
FIRST JOB THAT YOU DON'T
LIKE, WHICH BY THE WAY MOST
PEOPLE HAVE HAD, AT SOME
POINT IN THEIR LIFE, SOME
JOB THAT THEY HATED.

Karen says OH, ABSOLUTELY.
SURE.

Barbara says DO I THINK
THAT'S BAD?
NO I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S
GOOD TO HAVE A BAD CAREER
EXPERIENCE.
BECAUSE, I MEAN THE TRICK OF
COURSE IS ALWAYS TO GET OUT
BEFORE IT HITS THE
HIDEOUSNESS LEVEL AND YOUR
SELF-ESTEEM IS IN THE
TOILET.
BUT YOU LEARN FROM IT.
SO WE THINK, YOU KNOW,
EVERYTHING SHOULD COME EASY.
THERE SHOULD BE A MAGIC
BULLET, YOU SHOULD GO FROM
ONE EASY SOLUTION TO
ANOTHER.
THAT'S NOT THE WAY LIFE
WORKS.
SO LET'S SAY YOU JOIN AN
ORGANIZATION AND IT ENDS UP
NOT BEING THE RIGHT THING
FOR YOU.
YOU ASK YOURSELF “WHAT WAS
IT ABOUT THIS JOB I
DISLIKE?”
BECAUSE I'LL BET THERE WERE
SOME THINGS YOU LIKED.
“WHAT DID I LEARN FROM HERE
I CAN LEAVE REG, AND WHAT
MUST I ABSOLUTELY AVOID?”
FOR EXAMPLE I NEED TO BE IN
AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE I GOT
MORE AUTONOMY OR LESS
AUTONOMY.
OR IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT
THAT I'M WORKING WITH OTHER
PEOPLE.
I DIDN'T LIKE THIS JOB
BECAUSE I HAD TO SPEND SO
MUCH TIME TO MYSELF.

Karen says OR MANY PEOPLE SAY “I
HATE REPORTING TO A BOSS.”
THAT WAS THEIR INDICATION
THEY WANT TO BE THEIR OWN
BOSS THAT THEY WANT TO
STRIKEOUT ON THEIR OWN AND
SET UP THEIR OWN COMPANY.
BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A CERTAIN
PERSONALITY AND PERHAPS HAVE
A BAD EXPERIENCE TO GET
THERE, AS YOU POINTED OUT.

Barbara says ABSOLUTELY.

Karen says I WANT TO BRING IN
PAULETTE, WHO'S CALLING FROM
TORONTO TO JOIN IN ON OUR
DISCUSSION.
HI PAULETTE.

The Caller says HI.

Karen says HOW ARE YOU?

The Caller says I'M GOOD, THANK YOU.
I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT MY
TWO GIRLS.
I WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE THIS
PROGRAMME.
MY CONCERN IS ONE IS 15.
SHE IS INTERESTED -- LIKE WE
GO TO CHURCH, A PENTECOSTAL
CHURCH, AND BEFORE SHE THINK
ABOUT THE CHURCH, SHE SAID
THAT SHE WANTS TO BE A
PREACHER, BUT BEFORE THAT
SHE WANTS TO BE A STAR, LIKE
IN BASKETBALL AND STUFF LIKE
THAT.
BECAUSE SHE'S ATHLETIC.
AND RIGHT NOW SHE'S IN
HIGH SCHOOL AND SHE JUST GOT
TRANSFERRED TO A SEMESTER
PROGRAMME, AND UNFORTUNATELY
THEY DON'T HAVE ANY SPORTS
AT THAT SCHOOL, AND THE
LITTLE ONE, SHE'S 12, SHE
WANTS TO DO THE SAME THING
AS PREACHING.
AND ME, AS A PARENT, I TOLD
BOTH OF THEM THEY CAN'T DO,
LIKE GO TO COLLEGE JUST FOR
PREACHER, THEY HAVE TO DO A
LOT OF COURSE, LIKE FOR
CAREER COURSE, JUST TO HELP
THEM IN THE WORK FIELD
FIRST.
RIGHT?
NOW I DON'T KNOW IF I'M
TELLING THEM THE RIGHT THING,
BECAUSE OFTEN TIMES I ALSO
ASK THEM WHAT DO THEY LIKE
TO DO, LIKE IN THE WORKING FIELD?

Karen says WELL PAULA, YOU'VE
BROUGHT UP LOT OF ISSUES THERE.
AND FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO
ADDRESS PAULETTE HAS SAID TO
HER DAUGHTERS NO, YOU CAN'T
DO THAT YOU HAVE TO DO THIS
FIRST.
WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST WITH
THAT?

Barbara says I THINK
YOU SHOULD ENCOURAGE YOUR
DAUGHTERS TO KEEP THEIR
OPTIONS OPEN.
I DON'T THINK IT'S AN
APPROPRIATE FOR A
16-YEAR-OLD TO BE MAKING
DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY
WANT TO DO.
AND SO WHAT I WOULD
ENCOURAGE YOU, PAULETTE, IS
NOT TO SAY YES, YOU CAN DO
THIS, NO YOU CAN'T DO THIS
WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST INSTEAD
IS YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE
YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S GREAT
THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN
THE MINISTRY OR IN BEING A
PREACHER.
THERE MAY BE OTHER THINGS
THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN
ALSO.
IN OTHER WORDS, RATHER THAN
CLOSING DOWN OPTIONS AND
BEING KIND OF PUNITIVE BY
SAYING YOU HAVE TO DO THIS
OR YOU CAN'T DO THAT, I
WOULD ENCOURAGE YOUR
CHILDREN TO KEEP THEIR
OPTIONS OPEN, TO GET THE
BEST POSSIBLE EDUCATION, AND
TO REWARD THEM FOR HAVING
INTERESTS.
AND THEN I WOULD SAY “NOW
WHAT IS IT ABOUT PREACHING
THAT INTERESTS YOU?”
YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY WANT TO
MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE
WORLD.
MAYBE THEY'RE INTERESTED IN
SOCIAL WORK.
MAYBE THEY ARE RELIGIOUS.
I MEAN MAYBE THEY'RE
INTERESTED IN philosophy.
I REALLY WOULDN'T WORRY
ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW, TO BE
HONEST.

Karen says BUT YOU SAID A
16-YEAR-OLD SHUN BE DECIDING
WHAT SHE'S GOING TO DO.
WHAT AGE SHOULD THEY DECIDE?
AT 16, 17, YOU COULD
ENCOURAGE THEM TO VOLUNTEER
FREE OF SERVICE AT A LOCAL
LIBRARY OR IN THE CHURCH A
OR A TV STATION TO DECIDE
WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.

Barbara says I THINK
THAT'S FABULOUS BUT AT 16 OR
17 WHAT YOU SHOULD BE
LEARNING ABOUT IS WHAT KIND
OF ACTIVITIES DO I LIKE TO
BE ENGAGED IN, WHAT KIND OF
PEOPLE INTERACTIONS?
MAYBE YOU GO INTO A TV
STUDIO AND YOU LOVE IT BUT
I'M NOT EVEN SURE A
16-YEAR-OLD SHOULD SAY I
DEFINITELY WANT TO WRITE OR
DO RADIO OR TV.
BECAUSE THEY REALLY DON'T
THEY YET.
THINK OF IT THIS WAY.
TAKE YOUR AVERAGE 17 OR
16-YEAR OIL.
THEY CAN'T VOTE.
THEY MAY OR MAY NOT YET HAVE
HAD SEX, THEY CAN'T DRIVE,
YET WE EXPECT THEM TO KNOW
WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WHEN
THEY GROW UP.
I THINK THAT IS PATENTLY
RIDICULOUS.

Karen says WHAT DID YOU WANT
TO DO WHEN YOU WERE GOING TO
GROW UP?

Barbara says I WANTED TO BE A
PERFORMER AND THEN I HAD ALL
THIS ANGST.
SOMEONE SHOWED ME A AN
OLD-YEAR BOOK AND APPARENTLY
THEY CALL IMMEDIATE A CAREER
ANGST QUESTION MARK, BECAUSE
I ALWAYS SAID OKAY, I DON'T
KNOW WHAT I WANT TO DO,
THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH
ME.
BUT I THINK IT WAS A
REACTION TO ALL THE PRESSURE
THAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT
YOU WANT TO DO.

Karen says WELL WHAT AGE DID YOU KNOW?

Barbara says I DON'T KNOW THAT MOST
PEOPLE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT
THEY WANT TO DO.
THEY END UP FEELING GOOD
ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND
THEN THEY DO MORE OF IT, OR
IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT THEN
THEY MOVE AWAY.
YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE AT 17
WOULD I HAVE KNOWN THERE WAS
SUCH A THING AS I COULD
ACTUALLY GO ON TELEVISION
AND WRITE BOOKS ABOUT THE
WORKPLACE?
OF COURSE I WOULDN'T HAVE
KNOWN ABOUT THAT.

Karen says SO IT'S THE
KEEPING OPEN AND THE
VERSATILITY.

Barbara says THAT'S
RIGHT BUT WHAT I ALWAYS WAS
INTERESTED WAS INDIVIDUAL
DIFFERENCES AND I WAS
INTERESTED IN AS I SAID
PERFORMING AND TALKING AND
WRITING.
AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN
PEOPLE'S LIFE.

Karen says WELL THAT'S A GOOD
EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU COULD
GO, AN OFF-SHOOT YOU MIGHT
NOT BE ABLE TO SEE AT A
YOUNG AGE.
GENERATIONAL DIFFERENCES IN
TERMS OF SOMEONE AT THE AGE
OF, YOU MENTIONED OFF THE
TOP, 40, VERSUS THAT
18-YEAR-OLD WITH
CAREER-PROOFING.
WHAT THEY DO WHEN THEY'VE
EITHER BEEN LAID OFF OR
DECIDE WHAT THEY'RE DOING?
HOW DO YOU TAKE THOSE FIRST
STEPS?

Barbara says OK, WELL
OBVIOUSLY A 40-YEAR-OLD HAS
TO THINK VERY DIFFERENTLY
ABOUT THE FUTURE THAN AN
18-YEAR-OLD.
OR EVEN A 24-YEAR-OLD.
I GUESS FOR A LOT OF OLDER
WORKERS, THE ISSUE IS “I GOT
TO GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME.”
PARTICULARLY IF THEY'VE BEEN
LAID OFF, AND SO THEY DON'T
HAVE A FINANCIAL CUSHION.
AND THEY MAY FEEL -- I MEAN,
SOME 40-YEAR-OLDS ARE
LEAVING THEIR PRESENT
EMPLOYERS BECAUSE THEY WANT
TO PURSUE THEIR PERSONAL
PASSIONS, THEY'VE MADE SOME
DECISION, MAYBE THEY'RE
GOING TO SELL THEIR HOUSE TO
FREE UP SOME -- YOU KNOW,
GIVE THEM SOME FINANCIAL
LIQUIDITY OR WHAMPLT THAT'S
VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE
PERSON WHO FOR EXAMPLE WAS
DOWNSIZED OUT OF THEIR JOB,S
INTO FINANCIAL CUSHION AND
RATHER THAN SAYING “OKAY,
YOU KNOW, I WANT TO DO THIS
BECAUSE IT MAKES, IT
FULFILLS MY PASSION OR I
COULD BRING MY AUT THERNT
PARTICULAR SELF TO WORK.”
THEY HAVE TO MAKE SOME
PRETTY TOUGH CHOICES ABOUT
WHERE THEY CAN SELL THEIR
SKILLS.
SO IF YOU'RE 40 YEARS OLD,
YOU'VE LOST YOUR JOB, YOU
WOULD DO A -- FIRST OF ALL
STEP ONE, DO A RUTHLESS SELF
ASSESSMENT.
WHAT WERE YOU GOOD AT?
WHAT HAVE OTHER PEOPLE TOLD
YOU YOU'RE GOOD AT?
WHAT DO YOU LIKE DOING?
WHAT ARE THE KIND OF
ENVIRONMENTS IN WHICH YOU DO
THINGS WELL?
AND THEN YOU WANT TO MAKE
SOME DECISIONS ABOUT THE
BEST WAY TO PROCEED?
I DON'T THINK THAT ANYONE,
REGARDLESS OF THEIR
FINANCIAL SITUATION, SHOULD
CHOOSE A JOB SIMPLY BECAUSE
THEY THINK THAT'S WHERE THE
HOT JOBS ARE.
FOR EXAMPLE, I'M GOING TO GO
INTO I.T. BECAUSE THERE'S A
JOB SHORTAGE THERE AND
THEY'RE PAGE LOTS OF MONEY.
TRUST ME WHEN I TELL YOU,
I'VE MET A LOT OF UNHAPPY
25-YEAR-OLDS AND A LOT OF
UNHAPPY 55-YEAR-OLD
CAREER-SHIFTERS WHO HAVE
KIND OF GRAVITATED TO THIS
BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS
THE HOT AREA, ONLY TO
DISCOVER THAT THEY WERE
MISERABLE.

Karen says OKAY.
LET'S GO TO SYNDITA WHO'S
CALLING IN WITH HER QUESTION
HERE ON “MORE TO LIFE.”

The Caller says HI.

Karen says HI.

The Caller says CONGRATULATIONS
ON THE BRAND OF SHOW YOU
BRING US.
I COME TO ANOTHER WORLD IN
CANADA, I'M NEW IN CANADA
BASICALLY.
I HAVE A DAUGHTER NOW, AND
IN THIS COLD AIR I'VE BEEN
TOLD TO YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND
OF THINGS THEY CAN DO.
SHE'S A LITTLE YOUNG FOR
THAT TEENAGER, BUT HOW CAN
WE...
(INAUDIBLE)

Karen says SO AGAIN A PARENT
WANTING TO KNOW HOW THEY CAN
GET A 10-YEAR-OLD INTO A
SPECIAL FIELD THAT CAN BE HOT.
THIS IS WHAT WE TRY TO DO
AS PARENTS, TRY TO HELP THEM
GET TO A JOB THAT'S NEEDED
BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO BE
EMPLOYED.
WHAT DO YOU think.

Barbara says I DON'T
THINK YOU CAN EVER
SECOND-GUESS THE FUTURE
TELL ME RIGHT NOW
WHAT THE TEN HOT JOBS ARE
GOING TO BE IN THE FUTURE?

Karen says I'D SAY ALL COMPUTER AND TECHNOLOGY.

Barbara says BUT WHERE.
COMPUTERS.
YOU KNOW YOUR KIDS ARE
GETTING COMPUTER SKILLS AND
TECHNOLOGY.
WHAT PART OF TECHNOLOGY.

Karen says CREATING SOFTWARE,
HARDWARE, DAY TRADER, ALL THAT.

Barbara says EXACTLY,
SO THINK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT
AREAS -- IT COULD BE BIOLOGY,
IT COULD BE FINANCE, IT
COULD BE MARKETING.
THERE'S ANY NUMBER OF
APPLICATIONS.
AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE CAN
SECOND-GUESS WHERE THE HOT
JOBS ARE.
I THINK WE CAN LOOK AT THE
FUTURE, AND SAY THERE'S
GOING TO BE SOME GENERAL
FIELDS THAT WILL BE IN
DEMAND.
FOR EXAMPLE I THINK YOU
WOULD AGREE WITH ME, WE'VE
GOT AN AGEING AND SOMEWHAT
VAIN BABY BOOM GENERATION,
RIGHT?
THEY WANT TO STAY LOOKING
HEALTHIER LONGER.
WE ALSO HAVE A CASH-STRAPPED
HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO WILL IN
FACT BE LIVING LONGER.
SO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE
IMPLICATIONS.
COSMETIC SURGERY TO KEEP
PEOPLE LOOKING BETTER
YOUNGER.
TECHNOLOGICALLY DELIVERED
MEDICAL SUPPORT TO KEEP
PEOPLE OUT OF HOSPITALS.
ANYTHING RELATED TO AGING,
WEATHER IT'S HEALTHCARE,
PERSONAL TRAINER, NUTRITION,
STRESS MANAGEMENT.
DO YOU SEE WHERE I'M GOING
WITH THIS?

Karen says DELIVERY SERVICES --

Barbara says EXACTLY.
SO WE COULD PROBABLY COME UP
WITH YOU AND I, SAY TAKE
ANYONE TREND AND COME UP
WITH SAY AROUND 50
POSSIBILITIES AND THAT'S
REALLY HOW PEOPLE HAVE TO
THINK ABOUT THEIR FUTURE.
WE'RE GOING TO SEE
TREMENDOUS DEMAND IN THE
FUTURE FOR A WIDE ARRAY OF WORK.
FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT'S
INTERESTING, BY THE WAY, IS
PARENTS HAVE BECOME SO
OBSESSED WITH TRYING TO
SECOND-GUESS THE JOB MARKET
THEY'VE ACTUALLY MISSED OUT
ON ONE OF THE HOTTEST FIELDS
TODAY, OR AREAS, AND
EMPLOYERS ARE CRYING THE
BLUES.
THAT THEY SAY PARENTS ARE
NOT ENCOURAGING THEIR KIDS
TO GO INTO TRADES.

Karen says YES, YOU'RE RIGHT.
IT HAS TO BE THE HOT NEW
PROFESSION AS OPPOSED TO THE
TRADES THAT ARE BOOMING WITH
THE CONDITION ME.

Barbara says YEAH, BUT THERE'S
ALWAYS GOING TO BE STUFD
TOILETS.
THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE
HOUSES THAT NEEDED TO BE
WIRED.

Karen says THAT'S RIGHT.
ABSOLUTELY.
OKAY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
CAREER-PROOFING YOUR
CHILDREN BUT IF LOOKING AT
MAKING A CAREER RIGHT NOW,
IF YOU'VE HEARD MANY THE
COMMERCIALS RIGHT NOW,
RUNNING LIKE I HAVE, WITH
THE PLACES ON THE INTERNET
WHERE YOU CAN POST YOUR
RESUME TO MAKE THAT JOB
CHANGE, IT'S EVERYWHERE.
YOU'RE INUNDATED WITH THE
MESSAGE THAT YOU CAN CHANGE
YOUR CAREER.
WELL, WE'VE GOT ADVICE HERE
ON HOW TO START THAT WITH
BARBARA MOSES.
SHE'S OUR GUEST SO IF YOU'RE
LOOK FOG CHANGE CAREERS AND
NEED SOME TIPS YOU CAN CALL
US HERE IN TORONTO.

The numbers and email reappear briefly.

Karen says LET'S GO TO MARY,
CALLING IN FROM ORANGEVILLE
WITH A QUESTION.
HI MARIE.

The Caller says HI.

Karen says HI.

The Caller says I HAVE A QUESTION
ABOUT A 15 AND A 16-YEAR-OLD
WHO ARE BOTH VERY
ACADEMICALLY INCLINED.
MY 15-YEAR-OLD HAS BEEN
FLIPPING BACK AND FORTH
SINCE SHE WAS 10 ABOUT BEING
A DOCTOR, AND THERE'S BEEN
VARIOUS OTHER EMPLOYMENT
SITUATIONS THAT SHE'S
CONSIDERED IN BETWEEN TIMES.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I
SHOULD ENCOURAGE HER ON THE
TRACK OF MEDICINE OR I
SHOULD JUST LEAVE HER TO
MAKE UP HER OWN MIND.
AND ALSO MY 16-YEAR-OLD SON,
WHO IS VERY INTELLIGENT AND
HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE AS TO
WHICH LINE OF WORK HE WOULD
LIKE TO GO INTO.
HOW DO I ENCOURAGE HIM, AND
HOW DO I GUIDE HIM IN HIS
CHOICES OF UNIVERSITY
EDUCATIONS?

Barbara says OKAY IN
TERMS OF THE ONE WHO'S
INTERESTED IN MEDICINE, I
THINK YOU'RE THINKING
CORRECTLY ABOUT MAYBE YOU
SHOULD LEAVE THOSE OPTIONS
OPEN.
SHE WILL FIGURE IT OUT
HERSELF.
AND YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY
SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHETHER SHE
WANTS TO GO INTO MEDICINE.
IT'S VERY HARD FOR TEENAGERS
TO REALLY GET THEIR HEAD
AROUND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A
DOCTOR OR A NURSE OR A
RESEARCHER.
AND NINE THAT THERE'S SO
MANY DIFFERENT AREAS.
IN TERMS OF THE CHILD
THINKING OF -- YOUR
16-YEAR-OLD THINKS ABOUT --
THINKING ABOUT UNIVERSITY,
FIRST OF ALL IT'S GOOD HE'S
THINKING ABOUT UNIVERSITY,
BUT I REALLY WOULDN'T WORRY
ABOUT IT UNTIL HE'S -- I
MEAN, I WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT
HIM THINKING ABOUT IT
SERIOUSLY UNTIL HE'S IN THAT
YEAR WHERE HE'S GOING TO
MAKE FINAL DECISIONS.
IN THE MEANTIME, HE SHOULD
BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT HE'S
MOST INTERESTED IN AND WHICH
UNIVERSITIES WOULD PROVIDE
THE BEST SUPPORT IN THAT
AREA.
THE OTHER THING THAT PEOPLE
OFTEN FORGET WHEN THEY'RE
THINKING ABOUT UNIVERSITY IS
WHERE DO THEY WANT TO STUDY?
WOULD THEY BE THE SORT OF
PERSON WHO WOULD LOVE
MONTREAL?
LOVE TO BE AT McGILL?
BE IN A COSMOPOLITAN,
EUROPEAN ENVIRONMENT?
OR WOULD THEY PREFER TO BE
IN A SMALLER TOWN
ENVIRONMENT?

Karen says BECAUSE AGAIN
YOU'RE TALKING MORE ABOUT
JUST THE EDUCATION.
YOU SHOULD BE GOING FOR THE
EXPERIENCE OF SCHOOL.

Barbara says ABSOLUTELY.

Karen says AND WHAT YOU CAN
GET OUT OF IT.

Barbara says ABSOLUTELY.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT MOST OF
OUR CANADIAN UNIVERSITY,
THEY'RE A PRETTY MUCH THE
SAME.
THEY'RE ALL PRETTY GOOD.
SOME MIGHT BE BETTER THAN
OTHERS BUT UNLESS -- YOU
KNOW, AT THIS LEL, AS LONG
AS THEY DO WELL AT THE
UNDERGRADUATE LEVEL THERE'S
NOT GOING TO BE A HUGE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BRAND
NAME EDUCATION AND A NOT
BRAND NAME EDUCATION IN
TERMS OF THE KIND OF SKILLS
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE.
BUT WHAT WILL REALLY BE
IMPORTANT IS THE KIND OF
VOLUNTEER WORK THEY DO, THE
KINDS OF PEOPLE THEY'RE
EXPOSED TO, THE KIND OF
THINKING THEY'RE ENGAGED IN
WHO THEY MEET.

Karen says HOW OFTEN DOES A
PARENT SAY TO THEIR CHILD
“WHAT IS IT THAT INTERESTS YOU?”
BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING THAT.
THAT'S THE MESSAGE I'VE BEEN
GETTING FROM YOU AND THE
ANSWER COULD BE “I LIKE TO
WORK WITH MY HANDS.
I LIKE TO WORK OUTDOORS.”
AND THAT CAN BE SO HARD FOR
A PARENT WHO IS NOT SURE
WHERE TO GO TO ADVICE AND
MAYBE GUIDANCE COUNSELLORS
ARE BETTER SUITED FOR
THIS --

Barbara says THEY'RE NOT, ACTUALLY.

Karen says BUT AS A PARENT I
WANT TO BE AS INVOLVED AS
POSSIBLE TO HELP.
“OKAY, WELL IF YOU'RE GOOD
WITH YOUR HANDS, DRAWING,
GRAPHIC DESIGN.”
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
THIS CONVERSATION HAPPENS
WHERE -- AND I'M SURE OUR
CALLER IS HAVING THIS WITH
HER SON WHO ISN'T SURE.
WHAT DO YOU LIKE.
SO I LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE OUTSIDE.
WELL, FOR A YEAR I WANTED TO
BE A FOREST RANGER BECAUSE I
WANTED TO BE OUTSIDE.
SO IT HAS TO BE REALISTIC.

Barbara says YOU HAVE
TO BE REALISTIC BUT YOU HAVE
TO KEEP OPTIONS OPEN.
LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
MY SON.
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE
HE WAS 14.
HE'S VERY GIFTED WITH VISUAL
IMAGES, HE'S VERY GIFTED
USING WORDS, WRITING,
TALKING.
AND HE HAS A VERY STRONG
SEVERANCE STORYLINE.
WELL, HE MAY END UP BEING A
PHOTO JOURNALIST.
HE MAY END UP, YOU KNOW,
BEING A WRITER.
HE MAY END UP BEING A
FILMMAKER, HE MAY END UP
DOING WEB DESIGN.
WHO KNOWS WHAT HE'LL END UP
DOING.
WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS HIS
CAPACITY TO USE WORDS AND
IMAGES WILL TAKE HIM IN SOME
DIRECTION.
AND HE'S GOING TO MOVE
AROUND A LOT.
THAT'S THE OTHER THING.
A LOT OF PARENTS ARE
ASSUMING THAT THEIR KIDS ARE
GOING TO BE AN X AND THAT'S
IT.
YOU'RE GOING TO BE A WEB
DESIGNER OR A JOURNALIST OR
A DOCTOR.
TODAY OR IN THE FUTURE WHAT
WE'RE GOING TO BE SEEING,
MORE AND MORE, IS PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO BE RECONFIGURING.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE MOVING
IN AND OUT OF DIFFERENT LIFE
SITUATIONS.
SO YOU START OFF DOING
BEHIND THE AIR, PRODUCTION.
AND THEN YOU END UP DOING
ON-AIR INTERVIEWING AND THEN
YOU END UP BEING A WRITER.
SIMILARLY WITH A DOCTOR.
YOU HAVE THE DOCTOR WHO
DISCOVERS WHEN THEY'RE 33
THAT THEY LOVE THE EMERGENCY
ROOM ENVIRONMENT, OR REALLY
THEY LOVE THE RESEARCH.
OR THEY LOVE PUTTING PEOPLE
AT EASE.
OR THEY LOVE GETTING GRANTS.

Karen says SO THEY CAN FIND
THEIR LITTLE NICHE WITHIN
THAT ENVIRONMENT.
OKAY, LET'S GO TO RENE WHO'S
CALLING IN NEXT FROM
TORONTO.
HI RENE.

The Caller says HI.

Karen says HI.

The Caller says MY QUESTION ISN'T
ACTUALLY FOR MYSELF, IT'S
ABOUT MY PARENTS.
THEY BOTH ARE IN FINANCIALLY
STABLE JOBS, BUT THEY'RE
MISERABLE AND IT'S REALLY
OBVIOUS.
AND I'M WONDERING WHAT
ADVICE I CAN GIVE THEM TO
GET THEM OUT OF THIS RUT,
OUT OF THIS SITUATION.

Barbara says THEY'D
FIND MY BOOKS VERY HELPFUL.
UM, DO THEY HAVE ANY KIND OF
FINANCIAL CUSHION?

The Caller says UM, WELL YEAH,
I'D SAY THAT THEY'RE,
THEY'RE PRETTY -- THEY'RE IN
A PRETTY STABLE SITUATION,
YEAH.

Barbara says OKAY, IF
THEY HAVE A FINANCIAL
CUSHION, THEN I THINK THEY
ARE FORTUNATE IN THAT THEY
CAN MAKE DECISIONS.
BUT THEY MAY END UP PURSUING
A LINE OF WORK THAT IS NOT
AS REMUNERATIVE.
THAT'S WHY I ASKED YOU.
IF YOU'RE 55 YEARS OLD OR 50
YEARS OLD AND YOU MAKE A
CAREER SHIFT, IT'S MUCH MORE
DIFFICULT TO MOVE ON TO OR
ACROSS TO A LEVEL WHERE
YOU'RE CURRENTLY AT IF
YOU'RE ALREADY ENJOYING A
DECENT STANDARD OF LIVING.
BUT IF THEY DO HAVE A
FALL-BACK POSITION THAT IS
THEY HAVE MONEY IN THE BANK,
THEN THEY SHOULD BE
ENCOURAGED TO THINK BROADLY
ABOUT WHAT IS IT THEY'VE
DONE IN THE PAST THAT THEY
ENJOYED?
WOULD THEY BE INTERESTED IN
RUNNING THEIR OWN BUSINESS?
WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO THEM AT
THIS STAGE OF THEIR LIFE?
DO THEY REALLY WANT TO SPEND
THE NEXT 10 OR 15 YEARS OF
THEIR LIFE BEING MISERABLE?
A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T
REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE
CHOICES.
I ALWAYS SAY TO PEOPLE “YOU
HAVE TO BECOME A CAREER
ACTIVIST.”
IT'S INTERESTING, WE SPEND
MORE TIME THINKING ABOUT
WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GO ON
VACATION, WHERE WE'RE GOING
TO INVEST OUR RETIREMENT
SAVINGS PLAN, THAN WE DO
ASKING OURSELVES QUESTIONS
LIKE “WHAT DO I CARE ABOUT?
WHAT ENGAGES ME?
WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME?”
SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOUR
PARENTS TO TAKE THIS TIME TO
REFLECT ABOUT HOW THEY WANT
TO SPEND THE NEXT CHAPTER OF
THEIR LIFE.

Karen says WELL, YOU TOLD US
EARLIER ABOUT HOW TEENAGERS
THAT YOU MET ON A SKI LIFT
DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEIR
PARENTS DID FOR A LIVING.
WE'VE GOT RENE WHO WANTS TO
HELP MAKE THEIR CAREER CHANGE.
THAT'S REFRESHING AND NICE
TO KNOW THERE ARE TEENAGERS
WHO WANT THEIR MOMS AND DADS
TO BE HAPPY, TOO.

Barbara says DEFINITELY.

Karen says YEAH, TELL ME
ABOUT THE CONFERENCE VOICES
FOR CHILDREN YOU WORK WITH.

Barbara says OKAY, WELL
I'M ON THE BOARD OF AN
ORGANIZATION CALLED “VOICES
FOR CHILDREN” AND WE'RE
PUTTING ON WHAT IS GOING TO
BE AN EXTRAORDINARY
CONFERENCE ON OCTOBER 25th
CALLED “TIME FOR CHILDREN,
WORKING A WORK LIFE TIGHT ROPE.”
I'M ONE OF THE ORGANIZERS.
I'VE BEEN DREAMING ABOUT
THIS CONFERENCE FOR ABOUT
FOUR YEARS.
EVERYONE TODAY IS
COMPLAINING ABOUT WORK LIFE
BALANCE, EVERYONE TODAY IS
STRESSED-OUT.
I THINK THAT WE'RE GETTING
OUR PRODUCTIVITY GAINS ON
THE BACKS OF OUR CHILDREN.
I THINK IT'S THE NUMBER ONE
ISSUE FACING ORGANIZATIONS
WHO ARE TRYING TO ATTRACT
PEOPLE, WHO ARE SAYING, “YOU
KNOW WHAT?
MY PERSONAL LIFE COMES
FIRST.
I'M NOT GOING TO WORK 80
HOURS A WEEK AND SACRIFICE
MY KIDS' LIFE.”
AND ON THE OTHER HAND YOU
HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE
SAYING, “HOW I DO RISE TO SO
CHALLENGES THAT PEOPLE ARE
THROWING AT ME?”
WE HAVE THREE STREAMS THAT
WOULD BE OF -- THAT WILL BE
OF TREMENDOUS INTEREST.
YOU CAN COME -- IF YOU'RE
20-SOMETHING YOU'LL LOVE IT
BECAUSE WE HAVE LOTS OF
IDEAS AND SOLUTIONS AND
STRATEGIES FOR BALANCING
WORK AND PERSONAL LIFE, FOR
DESIGNING A LIFE WORTH
LIVING, A LOT OF THE
QUESTIONS YOU'VE BEEN ASKING
ME, WE HAVE SOME EXCELLENT
SPEAKER WHO'LL BE TALKING
ABOUT THOSE ISSUES.
PARENTS WILL FIND IT REALLY
INTERESTING ALSO --

Karen says ARE YOU NOTICING
FROM THE EMPLOYERS -- THAT'S
FASCINATES ME, CORPORATIONS
HAVE TO GET MORE IN TUNE
WITH WHAT THEIR EMPLOYEES
ARE SAYING BUT THAT'S A SLOW
CHANGE.
THERE'S ONLY A HANDFUL OF
COMPANIES DOING NATIONALLY
RIGHT NOW.

Barbara says WHAT'S
INTERESTING -- MOST OF
ORGANIZATIONS TODAY, AND I
CONSULT TO ORGANIZATIONS,
MOST TODAY WILL TELL YOU
SOMETHING LIKE WORK LIFE
BALANCE IS ONE OF THE MOST
PRESSING ISSUES FACING US AS
EMPLOYERS.
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TALENT
TO GO AROUND.
EVERYONE'S PUTTING WORK LIFE
ISSUES ON THE TABLE.
IF WE WANT TO BECOME THE
EMPLOYER OF CHOICE, WE HAVE
TO PROVIDE IT.
THEY ALL HAVE -- NOT ALL OF
THEM, BUT MOST ORGANIZATIONS
TODAY CAN BOAST OF SOME KIND
OF POLICY MANUAL OR
FLEX-TIME OR TELECOMMUTING
BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH HOW PEOPLE LIVE THIS
THAT ORGANIZATION.
SURE THEY HAVE TELECOMMUTING,
AS LONG AS YOU WORK YOUR 60
HOURS AT THE OFFICE WHO
CARES SO I THINK THAT'S THE
REAL ISSUE TODAY, AND IN
FACT WE DO HAVE A STREAM FOR
EMPLOYERS WHO WANT TO BE
ABLE TO ATTRACT TODAY'S NEW
WORKER -- I CALL THEM THE
NEW WORKER BECAUSE THE NEW
WORKER, AND BY THE WAY THEY
COULD BE A 60-YEAR-OLD AS
MUCH AS A 25-YEAR-OLD, BUT
THE NEW WORKER BASICALLY
RECOGNIZES THAT THERE'S A
COUPLE OF ISSUES THAT ARE
FRONT AND CENTRE IN THEIR
BRAIN.
ONE IS BEING ABLE TO HAVE A
PERSONAL LIFE, AS WELL AS A
WORK LIFE.
SECOND, BEING ABLE TO TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR MANAGING
THEIR CAREER, AND THIRDLY,
ENSURING THAT THEY'VE GOT
SKILLS SO IF THEY LOST THEIR
JOB TOMORROW, THEY COULD
FIND ANOTHER EMPLOYER TO
SELL THEIR SKILLS TO.
BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS THAT
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A
JOB FOR LIFE, SO THEY ALWAYS
HAVE TO HAVE THE MINDSET OF
A TEMPORARY WORKER.

Karen says IS CAREER LOYALTY
GONE?
I MEAN, I'VE HAD ASKING YOUS
ON WORK ETHIC BEFORE, TO THE
POINT WHERE WE BECOME
EMPLOYEES THAT ARE SO USED
TO BEING IN ME INC., RUNNING
OUR OWN COMPANIES FOR
OURSELVES, THAT WE ALWAYS
HAVE TO PUT OURSELVES FIRST
THAT NOT ONLY IS CAREER
LOYALTY GONE, WE NO LONGER
FEEL AN AFFINITY OR ANY TYPE
OF EMOTION TOWARDS OUR
COMPANY ANYMORE.

Barbara says WELL I
ALWAYS THOUGHT THE WHOLE
CONCEPT OF LOYALTY WAS A BIT
STRANGE BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T
BE LOYAL TO THE ABSTRACTION
OF THE ACME LAUNDRY COMPANY.
THEY'RE LOYAL TO PEOPLE.
FOR EXAMPLE, PEOPLE LOVE
WORKING FOR TVO OR THEY LOVE
WORKING FOR A HOTEL CHAIN
BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE WHO
THEY'VE INTERACTED WITH WERE
GOOD TO THEM.
MANAGERS WERE SENSITIVE TO
THEM HAVING A PERSONAL LIFE.
THEY WENT TO BAT FOR THEM.
TEAM MEMBERS SAID “WE
UNDERSTAND YOU'RE NOT
FEELING WELL RIGHT NOW,
YOU'RE GOING THROUGH A
DIFFICULT TIME, WE'LL PITCH IN.”
THAT'S WHAT LOYALTY IS.
LOYALTY IS RECOGNIZING THAT
PEOPLE GOOD TO YOU, AND
BECAUSE THEY WERE GOOD TO
YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO RISE TO
THE CHALLENGE AND BE GOOD TO
THEM.
SO IF I WERE A BOSS, I DON'T
REALLY WANT LOYALTY IN THAT
I WANT PEOPLE TO WORSHIP THE
ABSTRACTION OF THE COMPANY.
I WANT TO KNOW I CAN COUNSEL
ON THEM, THAT THEY'LL BE
THERE FOR ME WHEN I NEED
THEM, WHEN SOMETHING'S
REALLY IMPORTANT.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN I EXPECT
THEM TO PUT MY NEEDS BEFORE
THEIR NEEDS.

Karen says SO IN TERMS OF
SUGGESTION TO YOUR KIDS WHEN
YOU'RE PREPARING THEM FOR
THE WORK FORCE, I KNOW
YOU'VE HAD A LOT OF ADVICE
HERE ON NOT PUSHING THEM TOO
MUCH, BUT AGAIN, CAN YOU
JUST SUMMARISE FOR US HOW WE
TAKE THAT APPROACH TO THAT
DISCUSSION?
IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL
OF THOSE THINGS, TO HAVE
RESPECT AND STIR AND PASSION
FOR THE PLACE THAT YOU WORK,
BUT YET THEY STILL LOOK AT
YOU WITH THAT BLANK STARE “I
DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT TO DO
WITH MY LIFE.”
AND THEY'RE 18 YEARS OLD AND
YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE
MOVING ON WITH IT.
YOUR SNUGS.

Barbara says PARENTS, LIGHTEN UP.
DON'T WORRY IF IF THEY DON'T
KNOW WHAT THEY WANT DO DO.
IT IS UNREALISTIC TO EXPECT
AN 18-YEAR-OLD WHO'S HAD
VERY LIMITED IN THE WORLD TO
KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
ENCOURAGE THEM TO PURSUE
THEIR PERSONAL PASSIONS.
ENCOURAGE THEM TO PURSUE
EDUCATION TO THE HIGHEST AND
DEEPEST LEVEL POSSIBLE.
ENCOURAGE THEM TO LEARN HOW
TO THINK, HOW TO INTERACT IN
THE WORLD.
AND FINALLY, MODEL FOR THEM
THE KINDS OF BEHAVIOURS THAT
YOU WOULD LIKE IT INSTILL IN
THEM.
IF YOU COME HOME GRUMPY AND
TIRED AND DISTRACTED, OR IF
ALL THEY SEE YOU DOING IS
WORK WORK WORK, YOU'RE NOT
REALLY PROMOTING IN THEM A
POSITIVE CAPACITY TO
MANOEUVRE IN THE WORLD OF
WORK.
OUR KIDS ARE NOT ONLY GOING
TO BE TOMORROW'S WORKERS,
THEY'RE GOING TO BE
TOMORROW'S CITIZENS.

Karen says AND YOU SHOULDN'T
BE A FUTURIST AS WELL.
YOU SHOULDN'T BE TRYING TO
PREDICT, I'VE GOT A
TWO-YEAR-OLD AND A SIX MONTH
RIGHT NOW WHERE I SAY
“WHAT'S GOING TO BE HOT WHEN
THEY'RE READY FOR THE WORK
PLACE.”
FORGET IT.

Barbara says FORGET IT
BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO
BE RIGHT ANYWAYS.

Karen says ALL RIGHT, JUST
INSTILL THOSE QUALITIES IN
THEM AND IT'LL GIVE THEM THE
BEST FOOT FORWARD.
BARBARA, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
CERTAINLY APPRECIATED HAVING
YOU HEAR TODAY.
BARBARA MOSES, AUTHOR OF
“CAREER INTELLIGENCE” AND A
SPOKESPERSON FOR VOICES FOR
CHILDREN.
VOICES FOR CHILDREN IS
HOSTING A CONFERENCE ON THE
25th OF THIS MONTH.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT
TIME FOR CHILDREN, WALKING
THE WORK LIFE TIGHTROPE,
CHECK OUT THEIR WEBSITE AT...

A slate reads “Voices for children. www.voices4children.org
416-413-0301.

Karen continues AND IF YOU WANT MORE
INFORMATION ABOUT THE TWO
MENTORING PROGRAMMES WE
FEATURED EARLIER, EACH ONE
TEACH ONE CAN BE REACHED AT 416-429-9009, extension 35.
And the Women in Motion programme is at 416-962-4946.
That’s it for today’s show.
Join us Monday through Friday for More to Life on TVO.

Watch: Career Proofing