Transcript: Alcoholism | Apr 25, 2000

(music plays)
Fast clips show different sets of hands performing activities on the table such as pulling petals from a daisy, drawing a big red heart, tuning a violin, flipping through the pages of a book, cooking, and pouring a glass of red wine.
In animation, the title appears inside the shape of a house: “More to life.”

Maureen Taylor sits in a studio with yellow walls and a small TV set in the background, which reads “More to life.”
She is in her late thirties, with wavy blond hair in a bob. She’s wearing a brown blazer and a beige shirt.

Maureen says I'M MAUREEN
TAYLOR, AND YOU'RE WATCHING
“MORE TO LIFE.”
FOR YEARS, ALCOHOLICS AND
THEIR COUNSELORS HAVE
INSISTED THAT THERE IS A
GENETIC LINK TO THE DISEASE.
NOW IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF THAT.
U.S. RESEARCHERS HAVE FOUND
A BIOMARKER IN THE BLOOD
THAT APPEARS TO IDENTIFY
PEOPLE AT RISK OF BECOMING
ALCOHOLICS.
THIS AFTERNOON WE'RE GOING
TO TALK ABOUT ALCOHOLISM AND
SUBSTANCE ABUSE WITH SOMEONE
WHO KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO
FACE ADDICTION.
Dr. GRAEME CUNNINGHAM IS THE
DIRECTOR OF ADDICTION
TREATMENT AT THE HOMEWOOD
HEALTH CENTRE IN GUELPH.
HE'S ALSO A RECOVERING
ALCOHOLIC.
SO IF YOU HAVE A STORY TO
SHARE ABOUT ADDICTION OR IF
YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT
TREATMENT FOR YOU OR SOMEONE
YOU LOVE, GIVE US A CALL.

A caption appears on screen showing two phone numbers.

Maureen continues IN TORONTO 416-484-2727
CALL US TOLL FREE AT
1-888-411-1234
AND E-MAIL YOUR QUESTION TO
MORETOLIFE AT TVO.ORG
Dr. CUNNINGHAM,
NICE TO SEE YOU.
HI.

Dr. Graeme is in his fifties, clean-shaven, bald with brown hair on the sides. He is wearing a black suit, blue shirt, spotted yellow tie, and glasses.

Dr. Graeme Cunningham says
NICE TO BE HERE.
THANKS.

Maureen asks HOW SURPRISED
WERE YOU TO LEARN THAT
THEY'D FOUND THIS GENETIC
MARKER FOR ALCOHOLISM?

A caption appears on screen. It reads “Dr. Graeme Cunningham. Homewood Health Centre.”

Graeme says
NOT AT ALL.
THE SCIENCE OF THE GENETICS
OF ALCOHOLISM HAS BEEN
AROUND A LONG TIME.
STUDIES DONE IN THE LAST TEN
YEARS OF TWINS AND IN KIDS
WHO ARE ADOPTED OUT HAVE
CLEARLY SHOWN A GENETIC
TENDENCY FOR ALCOHOLISM.
AND SO TO HEAR THERE'S
SOMETHING IN THE BLOODSTREAM
OF FOLKS WHO ARE AT RISK OF
BECOMING ALCOHOLIC DOESN'T
SURPRISE ME.

Maureen says MAYBE WE'LL TALK
LATER ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS
OF THAT.
BUT TELL US YOUR OWN STORY
OF DEALING WITH ALCOHOLISM.

Graeme says
WELL IT'S NOT VERY MUCH OF A
STORY DIFFERENT THAN ANYONE
ELSE.
I DRANK TOO MUCH, TOO OFTEN
WITH TOO MANY CONSEQUENCES.
BUT IT WAS SECRET AND IT WAS
FILLED WITH SHAME.
THERE WAS THE ASPECT OF THE
FACT THAT I COULDN'T SEE
THINGS THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE
DID.
AND ALTHOUGH PEOPLE IN MY
LIFE WERE SAYING “YOU'RE
DRINKING TOO MUCH” OR “IT'S
CAUSING PROBLEMS” I REALLY
COULDN'T SEE IT NOT BECAUSE
I WAS STUPID BUT JUST
BECAUSE OF THE DENIAL SYSTEM
THAT GOES IN ADDICTION AND
IT WASN'T UNTIL THE
CONSEQUENCES AND THE PAIN
GOT TOO GREAT THAT I HAD TO
SAY ENOUGH'S ENOUGH.
I'VE GOT TO CHANGE.

Maureen asks WHAT WAS THAT
DAY LIKE FOR YOU?

Graeme says
PRETTY DRAMATIC.
VERY FRIGHTENING.
WHEN YOU TREAT AN ADDICT,
YOU'VE GOT TO STOP YOUR
CHEMICAL OR YOUR ADDICTIVE
BEHAVIOUR, IF IT'S GAMBLING,
FOR EXAMPLE, THE PREDOMINANT
EMOTION THAT GOES ON IS
FEAR.
“I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT THIS.”
YOU'RE ASKING THE
IMPOSSIBLE.
UNLESS YOU'RE GIVEN SOMEBODY
ELSE'S CHOICES AND
FORTUNATELY I WAS GIVEN
CHOICES AROUND STOPPING AND
DOING SOMETHING ELSE.

Maureen asks HOW LONG FROM
SAY DIAGNOSIS TO THE DAY YOU
TOOK YOUR LAST DRINK?

Graeme says
'75 WAS WHEN I WAS
DIAGNOSED.
I REALIZED, IF YOU LIKE IN
MY OWN MIND THAT I WAS
DRINKING LIKE MY DAD MY
DAD WAS AN ALCOHOLIC AND
DIED OF IT AND I REALIZED IN
1975 I WAS IN TROUBLE AND I
GOT INTO TREATMENT IN '86.
SO I HAD ELEVEN YEARS OF
BARGAINING AND MAKING MYSELF
PROMISES AND PEOPLE IN MY
LIFE PROMISES OF TRYING TO
MODIFY MY ALCOHOL USE AND
CHANGE IT.
ALWAYS BEING SINCERE IN MY
PROMISES BUT UNABLE TO KEEP
THEM.

Maureen asks WHAT WAS
TREATMENT LIKE FOR YOU?
WHAT DID IT INVOLVE?

Graeme says
TWO THINGS, BASICALLY.
BEING WITHDRAWN OR
DETOXIFIED FROM THE BOOZE
AND OTHER STUFF, AND THEN
LEARNING TO LIVE SOBER IN A
DRINKING WORLD.
AND THAT'S WHAT TREATMENT'S
ALL ABOUT.
IS LEARNING TO LIVE SOBER IN
A DRINKING WORLD.
AND STILL, 14-SOME YEARS
LATER I'M STILL LEARNING
THAT.

Maureen says THEY TALK ABOUT
IT YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT ONE
DAY AT A TIME.
IS THAT REALLY WHAT IT'S
LIKE?
EVERY DAY YOU THINK ABOUT
IT --

Graeme says
WELL, I THINK LITERALLY
WE'RE ALL GAIN OF DAY.
IF YOU LIVE IN THE PAST, YOU
LIVE IN SHAME.
IF YOU LIVE IN THE FUTURE,
YOU LIVE WITH FEAR.
IF YOU LIVE IN THE MOMENT
YOU CAN BE REASONABLY
CONTENT AND YOU HAVE ALL THE
AUTHORITY TO DO WITH THIS
MOMENT AS YOU WISH.
AND SO IT'S A VERY
EMPOWERING CONCEPT TO LIVE
IN THE MOMENT.
TO LIVE IN THE NOW AND STAY
AWAY INTEREST THAT SHAME,
STAY AWAY FROM THAT FEAR.

Maureen says WE SHOULD TALK A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUNG
PEOPLE.
THERE ARE STUDIES RECENTLY
SHOWING A LOT OF UNIVERSITY
KIDS ARE DRINKING.
IT'S GETTING THEM INTO
TROUBLE.
THERE WERE TWO ONTARIO TEENS
IN AN ACCIDENT, TRAIN
ACCIDENT IN ITALY THIS
WEEKEND.
IT'S ASSUMED THAT THEY WERE
DRINKING.
DO YOU THINK WE HAVE A
PROBLEM OUT THERE?

Graeme says I
THINK THERE'S A LIFESTYLE
AND A CULTURE IN OUR WORLD
THAT FOR EXAMPLE THEY, THE
SIGN OF MANHOOD, IF I CAN BE
GENDER-SPECIFIC IN OUR
SOCIETY IS THE LEGAL
DRINKING AGE.
AND OUR CULTURE SAYS “YOU'RE
A MAN NOW, MY SON.
YOU CAN DRINK.”
THAT'S A VERY POWERFUL
MESSAGE.
KIDS GO TO UNIVERSITY AND
THE FIRST YEAR UNIVERSITY IS
FREEDOM.
YOU'RE AWAY FROM THE
PARENTAL BOUNDARIES AND THE
LIMITS AND DRINKING TAKES
PLACE.
AND I THINK THAT'S JUST PART
OF OUR CULTURE.
UNFORTUNATELY SOME KIDS GET
INTO DIFFICULTIES.
AND SOME KIDS DIE AS A
RESULT OF DRINKING ALCOHOL
IN UNIVERSITY.

Maureen asks ARE THEY
ALCOHOLICS, THOUGH, BECAUSE
THEY ABUSE ALCOHOL?

Graeme says
NOT NECESSARILY.

Maureen says SO LET'S TALK
ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES AND
THE SIGNS.

Graeme says I
THINK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
THE ALCOHOL ABUSER IS, THE
STUPID DRINKER, THE PROBLEM
DRINKER, AND THE PERSON WITH
THE BIO, PSYCHO-SOCIAL
SPIRITUAL DISORDER KNOWN AS
ALCOHOLISM IS THAT THE
PROBLEM DRINKER CAN MODIFY
HIS OR HER ALCOHOL USE WHEN
THE PAIN GETS TOO GREAT.
THE ALCOHOLIC WILL SAY “I'M
GOING TO MODIFY AS WELL” AND
BE ENABLE DO THAT THE POINT
BEING THEY'VE LOST CONTROL.
AND SO IF YOU TRY AND TAKE
AN ALCOHOLIC AND TEACH THEM
TO BE CONTROLLED DRINKERS,
YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT.
ALCOHOLICS CAN NO LONGER
RETURN TO CONTROLLED
DRINKING.
AND VERY GOOD LONG-TERM
STUDIES OVER MANY YEARS HAVE
CLEARLY SHOWN THAT.

Maureen says BUT THERE ARE
PROGRAMMES OUT THERE THAT
CLAIM THAT THEY WILL HELP
YOU LEARN HOW TO DRINK
AGAIN.

Graeme says
AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE
PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP THOSE
PROGRAMMES SEE ABSTINENCE AS
PUNISHMENT.
WHERE AS TO THE ALCOHOLIC
ABSTINENCE, LIVING SOBER IN
A DRINKING WORLD IS
WONDERFUL.
IT'S SOMETHING THEY THOUGHT
THEY COULD NEVER, EVER DO.
BUT WHEN THEY'RE GIVEN THE
TOOLS AND THEY'RE GIVEN THE
RIGHT TREATMENT, THE
BENEFITS FAR OUT WEIGH THE
PROBLEMS.

Maureen says ALL RIGHT, WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT ALCOHOL ABUSE
AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE THIS
AFTERNOON.
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR
Dr. GRAEME CUNNINGHAM FROM
THE HOMEWOOD HEALTH CENTRE
IN GUELPH GIVE US A CALL
ABOUT ADDICTION TREATMENT,
INTERVENTION, WHICH I WANT
TO TALK MORE ABOUT, OR IF
YOU HAVE A PERSONAL STORY OF
RECOVERY IN ADDICTION, WE'D
LIKE TO HEAR IT.
IN TORONTO, 416-484-2727
LONG DISTANCE IS TOLL FREE
1-888-411-1234.
AND OUR E-MAIL ADDRESS
IS MORETOLIFE AT TVO.ORG
KAREN IS IN FORT
EERIE.
WELCOME.

Karen says HI THERE.

Maureen says HI.

Karen says MY QUESTION IS
WHEN AN ADDICT DOES GO FOR
HELP TO A FACILITY, WHETHER
IT BE YOURS OR A DIFFERENT
HOSPITAL, OFTEN THEY'RE TOLD
THAT THEY HAVE TO COME BACK
OR WAIT WEEKS TO MONTHS AND
THEN DURING THAT GAP THEY'RE
LOST AGAIN, OR THROWN MORE
HEAVILY INTO THEIR
ADDICTION.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

Graeme says I
THINK YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT,
I'M GLAD YOU CALLED
IN.
I THINK THERE ARE WINDOWS OF
OPPORTUNITY WHEN ADDICTS SAY
“I CAN'T GO ON” AND THAT'S A
VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT IN
TIME.
CERTAINLY AT OUR CENTRE WHAT
WE TRY TO DO IS WE TRY TO
ENGAGE THAT INDIVIDUAL IN
SOME PLANNING.
LET'S SAY THERE'S A
THREE-WEEK WAIT FOR A BED.
WHAT CAN YOU DO IN THE
INTERVAL WITH THAT THREE
WEEKS?
WELL, WE CAN USE COMMUNITY
RESOURCES, LIKE THE FAMILY
PHYSICIAN.
LIKE NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS,
LIKE ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS.
LIKE EXCELLENT COMMUNITY
AGENCY SERVICES, LIKE DRUG
AND ALCOHOL SERVICES IN THE
COMMUNITY WHO HAVE
COUNSELLORS AND STAFF
AVAILABLE IMMEDIATELY ON A
DAY TO DAY BASIS TO SUPPORT
FOLKS WHO ARE AT THAT WINDOW
OF OPPORTUNITY SO IT DOESN'T
NECESSARILY MEAN THAT EVERY
ADDICT OR ALCOHOLIC HAS TO
GET A BED FOR TREATMENT.
THERE'S ALL KINDS OF
DIFFERENT STEPS AND SERVICES
AVAILABLE THAT CAN HELP THAT
PERSON MAINTAIN THEIR
MOTIVATION UNTIL THEY GET
INTO A BED, UNTIL THEY GET
INTO A PROGRAMME SOMEWHERE.

Maureen asks DO YOU TRY TO
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PROGRAMMES
IN OTHER PARTS OF THE
PROVINCE?
OR IS IT IMPORTANT TO KEEP
THE PERSON IN THEIR HOME
COMMUNITY?

Graeme says
AGAIN, IT'S A MATTER OF
AVAILABILITY.
WE HAVE A NUMBER OF BEDS IN
THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO FOR
TREATMENT OF ADDICTION.
THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY
MEAN THAT THE PERSON IN
THUNDER BAY IS GOING TO GET
A BED IN THUNDER BAY.
THEY MIGHT GET A BED IN
GUELPH OR A BED IN WINDSOR.
IT REALLY DEPENDS WHAT'S
AVAILABLE.
THERE'S NO STUDIES TO SHOW
THAT YOU'RE BETTER OFF BEING
TREATED RESIDENTIALLY IN
YOUR OWN COMMUNITY OR
ELSEWHERE.
BECAUSE ADDICTION IS A
DISORDER OF SHAME, A LOT OF
FOLKS TO WANT LEAVE TOWN TO
GET TREATED AND THEN COME
BACK AND BE DIFFERENT AND
CHANGED.
HOWEVER, WHAT WE DO AT OUR
CENTRE IS WE HAVE AN URGENT
RESPONSE.
AND SOMEBODY PHONES IN TODAY,
THEY GET A RESPONSE TODAY.
THEY MAY NOT GET A BED TODAY
IF THEY DON'T HAVE ONE, BUT
THEY'LL GET ENGAGED IN SOME
FORM OF HEALTHY SUPPORT
IMMEDIATELY.
AND IT MIGHT BE AS SIMPLE AS
SAYING WE'RE GOING TO TAKE
YOU TO AN AA MEETING TONIGHT
OR COME IN AND SEE THE
COUNSELLOR TODAY.
BRING YOUR FAMILY MEMBER
WITH YOUR, BRING THE KIDS
WITH YOU, TO GIVE SOME
SUPPORT TO THE FOLKS AROUND
THE ADDICT AS WELL AS THE
ADDICT THEMSELVES.

Maureen says SOME PEOPLE DO
QUIT JUST BY GOING TO AA
MEETINGS AND SOME NEED THE
RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT HOW YOU KNOW WHICH ONE
IS RIGHT FOR YOU?

Graeme says
YEAH, THERE ARE VERY CLEAR
CRITERIA AS TO WHO NEEDS
RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT SICK
AND RUN THEM OFF VERY
QUICKLY.
FOLKS WHO HAVE HAD PREVIOUS
TREATMENTS, WHETHER IT BE
OUT-PATIENT ORB IN-PATIENT
WHO HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO
STAY CLEAN AND SOBER, THEY
REQUIRE RESIDENTIAL
TREATMENT.
POKES WHO HAVE CO-EXISTING
PSYCHIATRY OR MEDICAL
ILLNESSES.
FOR EXAMPLE A COCAINE USER
WHO'S ALSO AN INJECTING
DIABETIC, IN OTHER WORDS
NEEDING INSULIN, THAT'S A
TOUGH COMBINATION TO TRY AND
DEAL WITH ON THE OUTSIDE SO
CO-EXISTING MEDICINE OR
PSYCHIATRY.
PEOPLE WHO ARE TAKING
POLYSUBSTANCES, MANY
DIFFERENT DRUGS, ALCOHOL,
COCAINE, HEROIN, MARIJUANA,
THESE FOLKS DON'T DO WELL IN
THE COMMUNITY TO BEGIN WITH.
THEY OFTEN NEED TO BE TAKEN
OFF THE STREET AND PUT IN A
RESIDENTIAL SETTING.
SO THESE SIMPLELY IS ARE THE
CRITERIA THAT I WOULD USE
BECAUSE ALL THE REFERRALS TO
OUR CENTRE I TRIAGE, LOOK
AT.
I SAY YEAH, THIS IS
APPROPRIATE FOR RESIDENTIAL,
OR THIS PERSON WOULD DO JUST
AS WELL IN A DAY PROGRAMME,
THIS PERSON WOULD BE DOING
JUST AS WELL GOING TO AA OR
NA AND THEN WE MAKE THE
REFERRALS BACK TO THE
SOURCES.

Maureen says AND EVEN IF YOU
HAVE TO SEND THEM FOR THREE
WEEKS TO AA MEETINGS, YOU
DON'T SEND THEM ALONE,
RIGHT?
YOU GIVE THEM A SPONSOR OR
SOME HELP?

Graeme says I
HAVE PHONE NUMBERS ON MY
DESK FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY,
ACROSS CANADA OF MEN AND
WOMEN WHO HAVE AGREED TO BE
CONTACTED AT A MOMENT'S
NOTICE SO IF SOMEONE CALLS
ME FROM VANCOUVER AND SAID,
“I'VE GOT A HEROIN ADDICT
HERE KURX SEE THEM?”
I CAN CONNECT THEM WITH SOME
LOCAL RESOURCES IN VANCOUVER
THE SAME DAY TO SUPPORT THEM
UNTIL THEY GET TO THE
HOMEWOOD HEALTH CENTRE FOR
TREATMENT, FOR EXAMPLE.

Maureen says OKAY.
GOOD QUESTION, THOUGH.
THANK YOU KAREN, VERY MUCH.
JANINE WRITES “THE EFFECTS
OF ALCOHOLISM CAN BE QUITE
SEVERE, VERY OFTEN MAKING
THE ALCOHOLIC SEEM OBLIVIOUS
TO THE DAMAGE HE'S DOING TO
HIS LIFE AND/OR
SURROUNDINGS.
CHANGE WILL ONLY OCCUR WHEN
THE ALCOHOLIC IS READY,
HOWEVER.
HOW DOES ONE WHO LIVES WITH
AN ALCOHOLIC DEAL WITH LIFE
IN THE MEANTIME, ESPECIALLY
WHILE THE ALCOHOLIC REFUSES
TO ACCEPT THE ALCOHOLISM.”

Graeme says
THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION
AS WELL, AND I'M SURE THAT'S
TOUCHED MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE
WATCHING THE SHOW BECAUSE
IT'S SO COMMON.
THE MESSAGE THAT THIS PERSON
NEEDS TO HEAR IS THAT YOU
CAN LEARN WHAT'S CALLED
LOVING DETACHMENT.
IN OTHER WORDS YOU CAN
DETACH YOURSELF FROM THE
DRUNKEN BEHAVIOUR BUT STILL
LOVING THE PERSON.
AND THAT'S A LEARNED
RESPONSE.
AND THE WAY YOU LEARN THAT
IS BY MEETING OTHER PEOPLE
WHO HAVE DONE IT, AND THE
WAY YOU FIND THEM IS YOU GO
TO A GROUP CALLED ALANON AND
THEY'RE IN THE WHITE PAGES
OF THE PHONE BOOK.
AND IF YOU PHONE THEM AND
SAY I'M THE SIGNIFICANT
OTHER OF AN ALCOHOLIC WHO
CHOOSES NOT TO STOP DRINKING
RIGHT NOW BUT TIME PAIN, CAN
YOU HELP ME, THEY WILL.
NOW THE NEAT THING ABOUT
THAT IS STATISTICS SHOW THAT
OF THE SPOUSES THAT GO TO
ALANON, MALE AND FEMALE, BUT
IN THIS CASE IT'S FEMALE,
WITHIN A YEAR, 80 percent OF THE
DRINKERS HAVE MODIFIED THEIR
DRINKING.
THEY'VE EITHER QUIT OR
THEY'VE CUT WAY BACK.
SO IT'S NOT NEAR EASILY
DIFFICULT FOR THE FOLKS TO
LIVE WITH.

Maureen says I WONDER WHAT
THE DIVORCE RATE IS FOR
COUPLES WHERE ALCOHOLISM IS
A FACTOR.

Graeme says I
DON'T THINK IT'S ANY HIGHER
THAN THE DIVORCE RATE IN OUR
SOCIETY IN GENERAL.
WHAT IS HIGHER IS DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE.
WHAT IS HIGHER IS THE
SECRETS.
THE FAMILY TENDS TO PULL THE
WAGON AROUND AND SAY
“TOMORROW IT'S GOING TO BE
DIFFERENT” BUT IT NEVER IS.
AND SOMEHOW EXCUSE AND
ACCEPT BEHAVIOURS THAT
REALLY ARE UNACCEPTABLE.
IT'S AN EXTREMELY PAINFUL,
LONELY PLACE TO BE.
AND IF THE FAMILIES CAN
REACH OUT, FOR THEIR OWN
HELP AND SUPPORT, IT MAKES A
TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE TO
THEM AND BY EXTENSION A
TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE TO THE
ALCOHOLIC.

Maureen says OKAY, ALANON.
I'M SURE WE'LL TALK MORE
ABOUT THAT JOHN IN LONDON.

John says HI.

Maureen says HI.

John says MY QUESTION IS
WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER TO BE
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
CASUAL SUBSTANCE USE AND
TECHNICAL SUBSTANCE ABUSE?
WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

Graeme says
THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
THE PROBLEM WITH THIS FIELD,
JOHN, IS THAT THE WHOLE
FIELD IS A VICTIM OF
SEMANTICS, IF YOU LIKE.
THERE WAS A TIME IN MY LIFE
WHEN I THOUGHT ALCOHOL ABUSE
MEANT PUTTING FRUIT JUICE IN
GOOD SCOTCH.
I MEAN WHAT THE HELL IS
ALCOHOL ABUSE?!
YOU HAVE A DISEASE CALLED
ADDICTION OR YOU DON'T.
THERE ARE CLEAR CRITERIA
THAT WE CAN USE -- I USE --
TO MAKE THE DIAGNOSIS.
THAT'S PART OF MY JOB.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DRINK
TOO MUCH.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO USE TOO
MUCH MARIJUANA, TOO MUCH
COCAINE.
BUT ARE NOT ADDICTED.
THESE FOLKS CAN EITHER BE
TAUGHT OR CAN EITHER DECIDE
THEMSELVES TO MODIFY THAT
BEHAVIOUR.
THE ADDICTED PERSON CAN'T.
THE ADDICTED PERSON WILL SAY
“I'M GOING TO MODIFY MY
BEHAVIOUR” BUT BE UNABLE TO
KEEP THAT PROMISE BECAUSE OF
THIS LOSS OF CONTROL THAT I
MENTIONED EARLIER ON.
AND SO THE PROBLEM WITH THE
FIELD IS WHAT'S A PROBLEM
DRINKER, WHAT'S AIN BUSER,
WHAT'S A ALCOHOLIC?
AND UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S
NO EASY WAY AROUND THAT
EXCEPT FOR SAYING THERE ARE
CLEAR DIAGNOSTIC SIGNS THAT
I LOOK FOR TO DECIDE WHO'S
ADDICTED AND WHO'S NOT.
AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
ADDICTED NEED A CERTAIN
APPROACH, AND THOSE WHO ARE
NOT ADDICTED HAVE OTHER
APPROACHES.

Maureen says JOHN, DOES THAT
ANSWER IT OR --

John says YEAH, I THINK THAT
ANSWERS MY QUESTION.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Maureen says THANKS.
BYE-BYE.

Graeme says
THANKS, JOHN.

Maureen says I KNOW THAT I
READ A LIST BEFORE.
IF YOU DRINK IN THE MORNING
OR IF YOUR DRINKING HAS
GOTTEN NEW TROUBLE OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
ARE THOSE STILL THINGS THAT
YOU USE?

Graeme says
NO.

Maureen asks NO.
DRINKING IN THE MORNING YOU
DON'T THINK IS A SIGN OF
ALCOHOLISM?

Graeme says A
LOT OF PEOPLE GO TO THE
COTTAGE AND HAVE A BLOODY
MARY WITH BREAKFAST OR A
COLD BEER FIRST THING -- I
DON'T SEE THAT --

Maureen asks WHAT ABOUT
HIDING YOUR DRINKING?

Graeme says IF
YOU'RE ASHAMED OF A
BEHAVIOUR, YOU'LL HIDE IT
THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY
MEAN YOU'RE ADDICTED, BUT IT
TENDS TO LEAN MORE TOWARDS
IT SO I'D BE A LITTLE BIT
MORE IMPRESSED IF I LEARNED
FROM A SPOUSE OR A KID THAT
MY DAD'S HIDING A BOTTLE.
THAT WOULD IMPRESS ME THAT
THIS BEHAVIOUR'S NOT HEAVY
SOCIAL DRINKER.
WHAT I LOOK FOR ARE THE
THREE Cs.
LOSS OF CONTROL.
DO YOU AT TIMES TAKE MORE
THAN YOU INTENDED?
YES OR NO.
IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
DO YOU FIND THAT YOU'RE
CONSUMED ABOUT DRINKING, OR
THINKING ABOUT DRINKING?
FOR EXAMPLE A HOLIDAY
WEEKEND'S COMING UP AND SO
ON WEDNESDAY YOU BEGIN TO
PLAN YOUR ALCOHOL.
I NEED TO GET TWO CASES OF
BEER AND TWO 40 POUNDERS OF
RYE IN CASE SOMEBODY CALLS
IN FOR THE WEEKEND.
BECOMING PREOCCUPIED WITH
YOUR DRINKING.
LOOKING AT YOUR WATCH ON THE
SUBWAY SAYING IT'S 3:30,
GOOD, I CAN GET HOME AT FIVE
AND HAVE MY FIRST COCKTAIL.
SOCIAL DRINKERS DON'T DO
THAT.
THAT'S PREOCCUPATION WITH
DRINKING AND THE THIRD OR
MOST IMPORTANT IS CONTINUED
USE OF THE BEVERAGE OR DRUG
DESPITE NEGATIVE
CONSEQUENCES.
THE PROBLEM DRINK THEY'RE
THROWS UP ON HIS
MOTHER-IN-LAW'S RUG AND
CESARRARY I WON'T DO THAT
AGAIN DOESN'T DO IT AGAIN.
THE ALCOHOLIC WILL KEEP
DOING IT AGAIN UNTIL HE OR
SHE LEARNS TO LIVE SOBER IN
A DRINKING WORLD.

Maureen says OKAY.
ALL RIGHT, GOOD.
LET'S GO TO DIANE IN AJAX.
HI DIANE.

Diane says HI.

Maureen says HI.

Diane says I HAVE QUESTION
FOR THE DOCTOR.
I HAVE TWO TEENAGED GIRLS.
FIFTEEN AND FOURTEEN.
GETTING INTO THAT AREA WHERE
THEY'RE HANGING OUT WITH
FRIENDS AND THESE TYPES OF
FRIENDS COULD BE, YOU KNOW,
BOYS OR GIRLS.
I'M SEEING A TREND, A
PATTERN WHERE THEY'RE
HANGING OUT WITH THE KIDS,
AND I DON'T KNOW THESE KIDS
FROM ADAM.
AND THEY COULD BE INTO DRUGS
OR WHATEVER.
MY QUESTION IS HOW, AS A
PARENT, IF I SEE A ROAD
THESE KIDS ARE GOING ON, HOW
I DO DETER THEM FROM GOING
DOWN THAT ROAD?

Graeme says I
THINK YOU HAVE TO SHARE YOUR
CONCERNS WITH THE KIDS AND
I'M SURE YOU'VE DONE THAT
YOU SOUND LIKE A VERY
SENSIBLE PERSON.
IT'S NOT MANY PARENTS THAT
WILL BE THIS ASTUTE,
FRANKLY.
KIDS THAT GET INTO TROUBLE
WITH DRUGS, AND I HOPE I
DON'T ALARM YOU, BY SAYING
THIS.
TEND TO HAVE TWO SETS OF
FRIENDS.
ONE THAT MOM AND DAD SEE AND
ONE THAT THEY HANG OUT
WITH, THAT YOU AND I AS
PARENTS NEVER SEE.
THE IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN
DO AS PARENTS, AND I'VE GOT
FIVE KIDS OF MY OWN, IS
CONTINUE TO LEAVE THE DOOR
OPEN TO DISCUSSIONS.
I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO TRY
DRUGS.
I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO TRY
ALCOHOL.
IF YOU'RE GETTING INTO
DIFFICULTIES OR IF YOU'RE
HAVING PROBLEMS YOU GOT TO
TALK TO US ABOUT IT, AND
THERE'S WAYS WE CAN HELP YOU
WITH IT.
WE CAN HELP YOU WITH A
FAMILY DOCTOR, WE CAN HELP
YOU WITH COUNSELLORS THAT
COME INTO THE SCHOOL, WHO
WILL SEE THE KIDS PRIVATELY
AND CONFIDENTIALLY AND TALK
TO THEM ABOUT THIS KIND OF
THING.
YOU CAN SET YOUR OWN HEALTHY
BOUNDARIES.
CURFEWS.
EXPECTING THE KIDS TO BE IN
AT CERTAIN TIMES.
ONE OF THE RULES IN OUR
HOUSE AND THIS REFLECTS THE
FACT THAT I'M A RECOVERING
PERSON IS THAT WE HAVE A
DRUG-FREE HOME.
AND IF THE CHILDREN IN OUR
HOME ELECT TO USE DRUGS
THAT'S THEIR CHOICE, BUT
THEY CANNOT BE IN THE HOUSE
WITH ME WHEN THEY'VE TAKEN
DRUGS.
AND I'M NOT GOING TO LEAVE
THE HOUSE.
SO THAT MEANS THEY'RE GOING
TO HAVE TO FIND SOMEWHERE
ELSE TO SLEEP BECAUSE THEIR
DRUG USE AFFECTS MY
SOBRIETY.
WHEN WE PUT THAT IN THAT WAY
TO OUR CHILDREN, THEY WERE
SURPRISED.
IT ALSO GAVE THEM PERMISSION
TO SAY NO TO THEIR FRIENDS
USING THEIR DAD AS AN
EXAMPLE.
AND THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY OKAY
AS WELL.
SO HEALTHY BOUNDARIES,
HEALTHY LIMITS AND
RECOGNIZING THAT KIDS ARE
GOING TO TRY THINGS AND
ENCOURAGE THEM TO TALK ABOUT
IT.

Maureen asks DO YOU THINK
YOU'D RECOGNIZE SIGNS OF
DRUG ABUSE IN YOUR KIDS?
YOU WOULD.

Graeme says OH,
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.
I CERTAINLY WOULD SMELL
ALCOHOL.
I'M PRETTY VIGILANT AROUND
ALCOHOL.
I CAN SPOT IT FROM 200 YARDS
SO THAT I THINK I WOULD
SMELL ALCOHOL.
I THINK THE THINGS YOU
NOTICE IN CHILDREN IS
BEHAVIOUR CHANGE.
A KID THAT'S GOT 65 percent IN
CLASS REGULARLY, ALL OF A
SUDDEN STARTS FAILING.
A KID WHO WAS MOTIVATED TO
TAKE PART IN SPORTS OR TAKE
PART IN OTHER ACTIVITIES AT
SCHOOL, ALL OF A SUDDEN
LOSING INTEREST.
CHANGING THEIR FRIENDS,
STARTING TO STAY OUT AT
NIGHT.
STAYING OUT OVERNIGHT.
A LOT OF BEHAVIOURAL
CHANGES.
THESE ARE CLUES TO KIDS THAT
MIGHT BE GETTING INTO
DIFFICULTY WITH DRUGS.
THEY MIGHT JUST BE TEEN
AGERS TRYING THINGS ON FOR
SIZE AND THERE'S THE OLD
SAYING OF “WHO UNDERSTANDS A
16-YEAR-OLD MIND?”
AND THE ANSWER TO THAT IS
TWO THING, ONE'S ANOTHER
16-YEAR-OLD AND THE OTHER
ONE'S GOD AND NEITHER OF
THEM ARE GOING TO TELL US
PARENTS HOW THESE MINDS WORK
SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BEING
A TEENAGER OF PARENTS IN
THIS DAY AND AGE BUT THE
KIDS ARE GOING TO TRY
THINGS.

Maureen asks ARE YOURS OLD
ENOUGH TO DRINK YET?

Graeme says I
HAVE TWO CHILDREN IN THEIR
20s WHO ARE SOCIAL DRINKERS.
I HAVE AN 18-YEAR-OLD WHO'S
NOT YET LEGALLY ABLE TO
DRINK BUT I'M SURE HAS USED
ALCOHOL AND I HAVE TWIN BOYS
WHO ARE 16.
AND I HAVE NO REASON TO
SUSPECT THAT THEY'VE NOT
TRIED STUFF.

Maureen asks YEAH.
HOW WILL YOU, YOU KNOW,
HANDLE SOCIAL DRINKING BY
YOUR OWN FAMILY?
OR HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT?
I ASSUME THERE IS ALCOHOL IN
YOUR HOME?

Graeme says NO,
MY HOME'S ALCOHOL-FREE.
BUT IF PEOPLE CHOOSE TO HAVE
FRIENDS ROUND OR INLAWS COME
TO VISIT, THEY BRING THEIR
OWN ALCOHOL, POUR THEIR OWN
DRINKS, HANDLE THEIR OWN
GLASSES, I DON'T AND THEN
TAKE THE DRINK AWAY.
SO IF MY SON BRINGS 28 KIDS
HOME AND THEY'RE ON THE DECK
WITH THE BEER THAT'S
ABSOLUTELY FINE WITH ME BUT
I DON'T WANT THAT CASE LEFT
AT HOME.
WHEN THEY LEAVE THEY TAKE
THEIR BEEF BEER WITH THEM.

Maureen says SOME PEEP WE'LL
SAY AFTER ALL THESE YEARS
YOU DON'T TRUST YOURSELF
AROUND IT?

Graeme says NO, I DON'T TRUST
ALCOHOL.
I TRUST MYSELF IMPLICITLY
BUT I DON'T TRUST ALCOHOL.
IT'S SNEAKY, IT'S POWERFUL
AND IT'S PATIENT.

Maureen says LET'S TAKE
ANOTHER CALL.
DIANE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR
QUESTION.
LAURIE IS IN FENWICK.
LAURIE?

Laurie says HELLO?

Maureen says HI.

Laurie says YES, I
HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE
DOCTOR.
MY BROTHER WAS IN HOMEWOOD
AND HE HAD A PROBLEM WITH
ALCOHOL AND DRUGS AND I'M
JUST YOURS, DOES DEPRESSION
HAVE ANY BEARING ON WHY
PEOPLE GO AND LIKE HAVE LIKE
ADDICTIONS AND THAT?
LIKE I KNOW THAT HE SUFFERS
FROM DEPRESSION.
HE FINALLY DID END UP --
COMMITTED SUICIDE FROM
DEPRESSION AND FROM HIS
VICES, BUT I WAS JUST
WONDERING IF THAT'S LIKE A
TREND.

Graeme says
THAT'S A GOOD QUESTIONS
LAURIE.
AT THE HOMEWOOD WE'VE LOOKED
AT THIS BECAUSE WE SEE A LOT
OF FOLKS WITH MENTAL
ILLNESS.
80 percent OF THE ALCOHOL AND DRUG
ADIKT FOLKS COMING IN THE
DOOR OF OUR FACILITY WOULD
FULFILL THE DIAGNOSTIC
CRITERIA FOR DEPRESSION.
BUT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY LOOK
AT THEIR LIFE, THE
DEPRESSION PROBABLY IS
APPROPRIATE.
I MEAN, THEY'RE LOSING
THINGS.
THEY'RE LOSING JOB, THEY'RE
LOSING RELATIONSHIPS,
THEY'RE LOSING MONEY,
THEY'RE LOSING SELF-ESTEEM.
AND SO THE DEPRESSION MAY
WELL BE APPROPRIATE.
SO WE DON'T KNOW WHICH IS
THE CHICKEN AND WHICH IS THE
EGG.
ONCE THESE FOLKS ARE
DETOXIFIED FROM ALCOHOL AND
OTHER DRUGS AND YOU LOOK AT
THEM AGAIN 30 DAYS LATER,
ONLY 15 percent STILL HAVE SYMPTOMS
OF A SIGNIFICANT DEPRESSION
AND THESE PEOPLE DESERVE AND
NEED TREATMENT FOR THE
DEPRESSION ITSELF AS WELL AS
FOR THE ADDICTION.
OFTEN THE MISTAKE THAT WE
MAKE -- AND I SAY WE,
MEANING THE MEDICAL
PROFESSION -- IS SOMEBODY
COMES TO US AND SAYS “I'M
DEPRESSED,” WE FORGET TO ASK
ABOUT DRUGS AND ALCOHOL OR
IF WE DO ASK ABOUT DRUGS AND
ALCOHOL, WE ASSUME THEY'RE
DRINKING BECAUSE THEY'RE
DEPRESSED AND MORE OFTEN
THAN NOT, IT'S THE OTHER WAY
AROUND.
THEY'RE DEPRESSED BECAUSE OF
THE DRINKING AND DRUGS.
AND SO THESE FOLKS NEED TO
BE WITHDRAWN FROM DRUGS AND
ALCOHOL, FOLLOWED ALONG.
IF THE DEPRESSION MAINTAINS
AND STAYS, THEN THEY NEED TO
HAVE THE DEPRESSION TREATED,
AS WELL AS HAVING THE
ADDICTION TREET.
WHAT WE CALL A DUAL
DISORDER.

Maureen says AT HOMEWOOD I
IMAGINE DO YOU SEE PEOPLE
WHO HAVE TRIED TO COMMIT
SUICIDE BEFORE.
DO YOU HAVE TO TREAT THAT
SEPARATELY FROM THE
ADISTINCTION?

Graeme says
WHEN WE SEE FOLKS WHO ARE
ADDICTED AND ARE SUICIDALLY
DEPRESSED WE TREAT BOTH,
IMMEDIATELY.
AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR THINGS
LIKE SUICIDAL IDEAS,
SUICIDAL PLANS ALL THE TIME
AND TRYING TO PROVIDE AS
SAFE AN ENVIRONMENT AS WE
CAN.
AND IF PEOPLE NEED TREATMENT
FOR DEPRESSION OR FOR OTHER
MENTAL ILLNESS WHILE BEING
TREATED FOR ADDICTION, WE DO
THAT.
WE DON'T IGNORE THE MENTAL
ILLNESS.

Maureen says I DON'T KNOW IF
LAURIE WAS GETTING AT THIS
OR NOT BUT I'LL ASK IT.
AS THE CHILD OF A RECOVERING
ALCOHOLIC, I'VE DEALT WITH
THIS MY WHOLE LIFE.
SHE ASKED WHETHER THE PERSON
COULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON
THEIR OWN BEHAVIOUR.
ACCOUNT ALCOHOLIC OR THE
DRUG ADDICT CONTROL WHAT
THEY DO?
CAN THEY HELP IT?
IS IT THERE “FAULT” THAT
THEY'RE LIKE THAT?

Graeme says
IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT, BUT IT
IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO
GET BETTER.
THAT MIGHT BE A BIT OF A
FINE POINT.
FOR EXAMPLE, OUR JAILS, 80 percent
OF OUR FOLKS IN JAIL DO NOT
RECALL THE CRIMES BECAUSE
THEY WERE IN A BLACK-OUT
WHEN THEY PERFORMED IT.
DOES THAT MEAN THEY
SHOULDN'T BE IN JAIL?
THE ANSWER'S THEY SHOULD BE
IN JAIL.
BUT THEY SHOULD ALSO HAVE
THEIR ADDICTION LOOKED AT
AND TREATED BECAUSE IF YOU
DON'T TREAT THE ADDICTION,
THEY'RE GOING RE-OFFEND AND
SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE
WHOLE PACKAGE.
NOT JUST LOOK AT A PIECE,
LOOK AT THE WHOLE THING AS A
BIG PICTURE.
THE GENTLEMEN WHO WAS
DEPRESSED AND ADDICTED.
I WOULD HOPE HAD BOTH
TREATED -- BOTH BEEN
TREATED.
RELAPSE OCCURS.
YOU ATUNE TO DRUG AND
ALCOHOL.
YOU REKINDLE TREMENDOUS
SHAME, HUGE LACK OF
SELF-WORTH.
THE MOOD DROPS OFF A CLIFF
AND THE SUICIDE RATE TAKES
OFF AS WELL SO YOU CAN'T
IGNORE ONE FOR THE BENEFIT
OF THE OTHER.
YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT BOTH.

Maureen says WHEN THERE'S AN
ALCOHOLIC IN THE FAMILY,
YOU'RE SO TORN BETWEEN
WANTING TO HELP THEM AND SO
HAVE SOME SYMPATHY, AND YOU
KEEP THINKING “OKAY, THIS IS
A DISEASE,” BUT THEN YOU GET
SO ANGRY, BECAUSE THEY JUST,
THEY DON'T SEE THAT IT'S A
PROBLEM.
THEY DEKNEE THAT THEY EVEN
HAVE THE PROBLEM.

Graeme says
ABSOLUTELY, SO WHAT YOU HAVE
TO TRY AND DO AS A FAMILY
MEMBER IS REPLAY THE
CONSEQUENCES.
AND THE ALCOHOLIC IN THAT,
AND THE ADDICT WILL MODIFY
THEIR BEHAVIOUR WHEN THE
PAIN BECOMES TOO GREAT.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE ALCOHOLIC
WOMAN WHOSE HUSBAND SAYS
“I'M LEAVING AND TAKING THE
FAMILY.”
ALL OF A SUDDEN THAT
ALCOHOLIC WOMAN SEES THE
REALITY THAT SHE COULDN'T
SEE BEFORE.

Maureen says SO SOMETIMES THE
FAMILY CAN BE INSTRUMENTAL
IN GETTING THEM TO THAT
POINT.

Graeme says NO
QUESTION.
AND THAT'S THE POINT I MADE
EARLIER.
ABOUT THE LADY WHO CALLED IN
ABOUT GOING TO ALANON.
IF SHE DOES THAT, SHE WILL
BY DEFINITION CHANGE HER
BEHAVIOUR, HE WILL NOTICE
THE CHANGE IN BEHAVIOUR.
AND IT MIGHT MAKE IT MORE
UNCOMFORTABLE, MORE
DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO KEEP
DRINK SO LONG HE WILL THEN
SAY “I NEED TO CHANGE, TOO.”
THINK OF THE FAMILY AS A
MOBILE ABOVE A BABY'S CRIB.
FOUR OR FIVE LITTLE PIECES
HANGING DOWN.
YOU TOUCH ONE PIECE, THE
REST ALL MOVE.
SO IF A FAMILY MEMBER
CHANGES, BY DEFINITION, IF
THE REST OF THE FAMILY ARE
TO STAY IN RELATIONSHIP WITH
THAT ONE PERSON, THEY MUST
CHANGE, TOO.
AND THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OWN
STRUGGLES AROUND THEIR
CHANGE, THE SAME AS EVERYONE
DOES.
CHANGE ISN'T EASY FOR ANY OF
US.

Maureen says OKAY.
JANICE IS IN OSHAWA.
HI JANICE, WELCOME.

Janice says HI.

Maureen says HI.

Janice says I HAVE A
QUESTION.
MY HUSBAND NINE YEARS AGO,
HE WENT THROUGH THE
PROGRAMME AND I MET HIM,
ACTUALLY, WHILE HE WAS STILL
SOBER, AND SIX MONTHS AGO HE
STARTED DRINKING AGAIN AFTER
BEING SOBER FOR NINE YEARS.
SINCE HE'S BEEN DRINKING, HE
WAS AT A POINT, I WOULD SAY
A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WHERE HE
ADMITTED THAT HE WAS OUT OF
CONTROL WITH HIS DRINKING,
AND ACTUALLY I HAD TO SORT
OF TAKE A STAND, AS THE
DOCTOR JUST MENTIONED, AND
REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE
SITUATION.
AND I THINK PROBABLY THAT'S
WHERE THE TURNING POINT WAS
FOR HIM.
THAT AS OFTEN AS I WOULD TRY
TO IMPRESS UPON HIM HOW HIS
BEHAVIOUR WAS AFFECTING OUR
RELATIONSHIP, IT DIDN'T SEEM
TO HAVE ANY IMPACT UNTIL I
DID GO.
HE'S SINCE ATTENDED AA
MEETINGS AND HAS BEEN SOBER.
BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO HELP
HIM, OTHER THAN JUST, YOU
KNOW, BE HERE.
IS THERE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS
THAT YOU CAN MAKE FOR ME TO
SUPPORT HIM AND HAVE A
BETTER UNDERSTANDING?
BECAUSE I'M NOT FROM A
BACKGROUND THAT HAS EVER
BEEN AFFECTED BY ALCOHOLISM,
SO I'M VERY IN THE DARK IN
REGARDS TO ALL OF THIS.

Graeme says
YEAH, THIS IS PRETTY SCARY
STUFF FOR YOU.
ALSO I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE
AND SUPPORT YOUR COURAGE IN
TAKING THE STAND YOU DID.
CAN AND THAT WAS WHAT YOU
HAD TO DO AND YOU DID THE
RIGHT THING.
AGAIN, AS I SAID EARLIER,
SNEAKING TO SOMEBODY ELSE
THAT IF YOU GO TO ALANON
YOU'LL FIND A GROUP OF
PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU WHO CAN
GIVE YOU SOME TRICKS AND
SUPPORT AND IDEAS ABOUT
LIVING WITH SOMEBODY WHO'S
IN EARLY SOBRIETY AS YOUR
HUSBAND IS HE NEEDS TO KEEP
GOING TO MEETINGS, GET A
SPONSOR IN THAT PROGRAMME
AND HE NEEDS TO WORK HIS WAY
THROUGH THE 12 STEPS AND IF
HE DOES THAT HIS PERSONALITY
WILL CHANGE, BECAUSE THAT'S
WHAT THE 12 STEPS DO.
BUT YOU NEED TO GET YOUR OWN
SUPPORTS AS WELL SO THAT YOU
DON'T DRIFT BACK INTO
BEHAVIOURS UNCONSCIOUSLY
THAT ENCOURAGE HIM OR ALLOW
HIM TO GO BACK TO DRINKING.
AND THE WAY YOU DO THAT IS
BY GOING TO ALANON.
SO AGAIN, LET ME SUPPORTS
YOU FOR THE CHANGES AND THE
STAND THAT YOU TOOK.

Maureen asks THE SPOUSE OF
THE ALCOHOLIC, DOES SHE HAVE
TO WORRY ABOUT THIS THE REST
OF HER LIFE, AS DOES HE?

Graeme says I
THINK TRUST IS A HUGE ISSUE.
TRUST IS SOMETHING THAT WHEN
THAT'S FRACTURE TAKES A LONG
TIME TO BE RE-ESTABLISHED.
THE TRUST, MEANING THE
UNCONSCIOUS ASSUMPTION OF
SAFETY AND SOBRIETY.
I THINK I WAS SNIFF-KISSED
FOR THE FIRST NINE MONTHS OF
BEING SOBER.
IT WASN'T QUITE BELIEVED I
WAS SOBER.

Maureen says OH,
SNIFF-KISSED.

Graeme continues NOW THERE'S AN
UNCONSCIOUS AWAY SUMGS THAT
I HAVEN'T BEEN DRINKING.
NOBODY EVEN THINKS ABOUT IT
IN ANYMORE.
THAT TRUST TAKES A LONG TIME
TO BE ESTABLISHED.
ONCE IT'S ESTABLISHED THEN
LIFE BECOMES NORMAL AGAIN
FOR THE COUPLE.
SHE IS DOING HER THING, HE
IS DOING HIS THING, AND
THEY'RE LIVING TOGETHER IN
AN APPROPRIATE AND HEALTHY
RELATIONSHIP.

Maureen says WE DIDN'T ASK
JANICE, AND WE WON'T MAKE
HER TELL US, BUT ARE THERE
STRESSES IN LIFE THAT
ESPECIALLY WILL PUT THE
ALCOHOLIC AT RISK OF
RELAPSE?

Graeme says
NO.

Maureen says SO YOU CAN'T
BLAME AN EVENT --

Graeme says OH,
THE ALCOHOL -- OF COURSE I
DRANK!
I'VE GOT A WIFE -- YOU'D
DRINK, TOO.
BUT THE REALITY IS IF YOU'RE
AN ALCOHOLIC AND YOU'VE BEEN
TREATED, YOU HAVE THE
INSIGHT TO KNOW THAT ONE
DRINK IS TOO MANY AND A
THOUSAND'S NOT ENOUGH.
AND SO YOU PICK UP THAT
FIRST DRINK, YOU TICKLE THE
BRAIN CHEMISTRY THAT WE NOW
KNOW IS DIFFERENT IN THE
ADDICT.
AND SO ALTHOUGH THE
ALCOHOLIC GENTLEMEN MAY WELL
HAVE BEGUN DRINKING WHAT
LOOKED LIKE APPROPRIATELY,
OVER TIME, BY DEFINITION, HE
COULDN'T CONTROL IT.
SO HE LOST CONTROL AGAIN.
HIS ADDICTIVE DISEASE
PROCESS BECAME ACTIVE.

Maureen asks DOES CONTINUING
TO GO TO AA MEETINGS WEEKLY
OR NIGHTLY OR MONTHLY OR
WHATEVER, DOES IT HELP?

Graeme says
HE'LL HAVE TO -- RECOVERING
ALCOHOLICS NEED TO FIND
THEIR COMFORT ZONE AROUND AA
MEETINGS.
FOLKS THAT STAY GOING TO AA
MEETINGS DOAN GO BECAUSE
THEY'RE AVOIDING PICKING UP
A DRINK, THEY GO BECAUSE
THEY DON'T WANT TO FORGET
WHAT IT WAS LIKE.
ELI VISSEL, A NOBLE LAUREATE
AND AMERICAN AUTHOR WHO
WRITES ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.
ONLY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.
AND HE WAS ASKED ON ABC
SOMETIME AGO, Mr. VISSER,
WHY DO YOU ONLY WRITE ABOUT
ONE THING?
AND HE SAID SOMETHING VERY
PROFOUND.
HE SAID IF I STOP WRITING
ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST, WE'LL
FORGET AND IF WE FORGET, WILL
HAPPEN AGAIN.
THE ALCOHOLIC GOES TO AA AT
10, 15, 20, 25, 30 YEARS SO
HE/SHE DOESN'T FORGET
BECAUSE IF Ft. THEY FORGET
IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.
NOW WHEN I MEET AN ALCOHOLIC
LIKE THAT GENTLEMEN AFTER
NINE YEARS OF BEING SOBER
WHO STARTED DRINKING AGAIN,
I ASK TWO THINGS.
I ASK “WHAT SECRETS ARE YOU
STILL KEEPING?”
AND “WHEN DID YOU STOP GOING
TO AA MEETINGS?”
AND THERE'S ALWAYS A SECRET
AND THERE'S ALWAYS -- WELL,
I QUIT ABOUT A YEAR AGO.
I DIDN'T THINK I NEEDED THEM
ANYMORE.
I GOT A NEW JOB, WE MOVED TO
A NEW COMMUNITY.
I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT GOING
BACK.
I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS
OKAY.
YOU NEED TO BE WITH THE
FOLKS THAT KNOW HOW TO LIVE
SOBER.
THE CORE OF BEING ADDICTED
IS ISOLATION.
THE ALCOHOLIC AT THE SKYDOME IN
A BALL GAME WITH 50,000
PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DRINK
ALCOHOL, HE GOES INTO THE
WASHROOM AND DRINKS FROM HIS
MICKEY IN THE STALL.
DOESN'T DRINK IN FRONT OF
EVERYONE ELSE.
MAYBE HAVE A BEER LIKE
EVERYONE ELSE BUT WILL DRINK
ALCOHOL UTTERLY ALONE SO IF
YOU'RE GOING TREAT
ADDICTION, AND I'M GIVING
AWAY ALL THE TREATMENT
SECRETS HERE, YOU HELP
PEOPLE REALIZE A LIFE WITH
HEALTHY PEOPLE.
IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
ALONE I CAN DO, BUT I CANNOT
DO IT ALONE IS THE CLICHE WE
TEACH OUR FOLKS.

Maureen says VERY
INTERESTING.
WE'RE TALKING THIS AFTERNOON
ABOUT ALCOHOLISM AND
ADDICTION WITH Dr. GRAEME
CUNNINGHAM FROM THE HOMEWOOD
HEALTH CENTRE, IT'S A
TREATMENT FACILITY IN
GUELPH.
IF YOU HAVE A STORY ABOUT
RECOVERY OR A QUESTION ABOUT
HOW TO EITHER RECOGNIZE
ADDICTION OR ALCOHOLISM, OR
HOW TO HELP SOMEONE THAT YOU
SUSPECT IS AN ALCOHOLIC,
GIVE US A CALL.
IN TORONTO 416-484-2727
LONG DISTANCE DIAL
1-888-411-1234
YOU CAN ALSO E-MAIL YOUR QUESTION
TO MORETOLIFE AT TVO.ORG
ARTHUR IS IN
PORT ROEN.
HELLO, ARTHUR.

Arthur says HELLO.

Maureen says HI.

Arthur says I APPRECIATE THE
REMARKS, THE WAY IN WHICH
Dr. CUNNINGHAM IS ANSWERING
QUESTIONS.
SINCE I PHONED IN, ANOTHER
ONE HAS OCCURRED TO ME AND I
DON'T KNOW WHETHER I'LL BE
ALLOWED A DOUBLE-BARRELED
ONE.

Maureen says ABSOLUTELY.

Arthur continues BUT MY
ORIGINAL QUESTION IS THIS, I
HAVE WATCHED PEOPLE IN THEIR
30s AND SO ON BECOMING
ALCOHOLIC, AND IT ALWAYS
OCCURRED TO ME KNOWING THAT
ANYONE OF THEM SAID THERE IS
NO WAY IN WHICH I WILL
BECOME ALCOHOLIC.
I'M A SOCIAL DRINKER, BUT
I'M WONDERING WHETHER THAT
IS A COMMON THING, SO THAT
WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE JUST
BECOME ALCOHOLIC VERY
QUICKLY, BUT IT SNEAKS UP ON
THEM IN THAT WAY.

Graeme says
WELL, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY
CORRECT, ARTHUR.
NO ONE GETS UP IN THE
MORNING, LOOKS AT HIS WATCH
AND SAYS “TODAY I'M GOING TO
BE AN ALCOHOLIC.”
I MEAN, EVERYONE BEGINS
USING THEIR CHEMICALS IN A
SOCIALLY APPROPRIATE SETTING,
WHETHER IT BE ALCOHOL,
ELICIT DRUGS, PRESCRIPTION
DRUGS.
THE USE ALWAYS BEGINS IN
WHAT APPEARS TO BE AN
APPROPRIATE SETTING.
IF THAT PERSON, HOWEVER, HAS
THE GENETIC TENDENCY AND THE
BRAIN CHEMISTRY THAT'S
DIFFERENT IN 90 percent OF SOCIETY,
EVENTUALLY THEY WILL LOSE
CONTROL OF THAT SUBSTITUTE.
IN THIS CASE ALCOHOL, AND
THE CONSEQUENCES OF
ALCOHOLISM WILL SHOW UP.
AND SOME -- THERE'S A SUB
GROUP OF ALCOHOLICS WHERE
ALCOHOLISM IS VERY -- VERY
MALIGNANT AND MANIFESTS
ITSELF AT A VERY YOUNG AGE.
TEENS AND 20s.
THE VAST MAJORITY OF
ALCOHOLIC, HOWEVER WHAT'S
CALLED TYPE-II ALCOHOLICS
SHOW UP IN THE LATE 30s AND
40s, THEY SHOW UP WITH
CONSEQUENCE, IMPAIRED
DRIVING CHARGE, MARITAL
DIFFICULTIES, FINANCIAL
PROBLEMS, ETCETERA,
AND SO ON AVERAGE
WITH ALCOHOL YOU'RE LOOKING
AT 20 YEARS BETWEEN FIRST
USE AND A CLEAR ALCOHOLIC
PATTERN.
BUT THAT PERSON'S BEEN
ALCOHOLIC ALL ALONG.

Maureen says INTERESTING.
ARTHUR, WHAT WAS YOUR OTHER
QUESTION?

Arthur says MY OTHER POINT
WAS YOUR COMMENTS SEEM TO
SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO BE TRYING THIS,
THAT AND THE OTHER THING.
AND I WONDERED -- I'VE HEARD
THESE COMMENTS, ESPECIALLY
THIS ONE, “HE HAS TO SOW HIS
WILD OATS.”
YOU HAVE TO TRY EVERYTHING
ONCE.
AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT
IS THE OLDER GENERATION,
PEOPLE MY AGE, WHO HAVE
PERPETUATED THOSE
STATEMENTS.
AND I'M JUST -- I'M A LITTLE
UNCERTAIN AS TO WHETHER
INDEED YOU DO HAVE TO TRY
EVERYTHING ONCE.
IT MIGHT BE BETTER NOT TO.

Maureen says I'VE NEVER TRIED
COCAINE OR HEROIN AND I
DON'T INTEND TO.
I GUESS HE'S GOING BACK TO
WHAT WE TELL OUR KIDS.
DO WE HAVE TO SAY “I KNOW
YOU'LL DRINK, I KNOW YOU'LL
DO DRUGS?”

Graeme says I
THINK THAT THE VAST MAJORITY
OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TRY
THE LEGAL DRUGS.
THEY'RE GOING TO TRY ALCOHOL,
SOME KIDS ARE GOING TO TRY
SMOKING, BUT INTERESTING
THAT OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM NOW
IS SO ACTIVE IN TERMS OF
GRADE FOUR, FIVE AND SIX IN
TERMS OF GETTING THE MESSAGE
ABOUT SMOKING OVER, FEWER
AND FEWER KIDS ARE PICKING
UP CIGARETTES WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF THE TEENAGED
GIRL, I'M AFRAID.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT
EVERYONE'S GOING TO TRY
EVERYTHING.
I THINK SOWING YOUR WILD
OATS, TO USE THAT TERM, KIDS
GO THROUGH PERIODS OF
EXPERIMENTING.
WE TRY OUT THINGS IN
RELATIONSHIPS, TRY OUT
THINGS AT COLLEGE, WE TRY
OUT THINGS WITH CHEMICALS.
A LOT DEPENDS ON THE KIND OF
HOME YOU COME FROM.
AND IF YOU COME FROM A HOME
WHERE THERE WERE VERY FEW
LIMITS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
DIFFICULTY SETTING LIMITS ON
YOUR SELF BECAUSE THAT WAS
NEVER MODELED FOR YOUR HOME
SO THESE WILD OATS MIGHT BE
WILDER THAN SOMEONE WHO
COMES FROM A HOME WHERE
THERE WERE BOUNDARIES AND
CLEAR LIMITS, AN
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, WHERE
YOU CAN SAY TO A CHILD NO.
AND YOU NEED TO BE
ACCOUNTABLE AND RESPONSIBLE
FOR YOUR BEHAVIOUR BUT I
STILL LOVE YOU.
THAT'S A TOUGH THING TO DO
AS A PARENT BUT THAT'S WHAT
WE NEED TO DO.
A LOT OF HOMES THAT DOESN'T
HAPPEN NOW.
KIDS ARE JUST GIVEN A KEY
AND THEY'RE ALMOST FREE
BECAUSE THE PARENTS BECOME
FRIGHTENED TO LIMIT THEIR
ACTIVITIES.

Maureen says SOMETIMES WHEN I
READ MY WEEKEND EDITION OF
MY PAPER, THEY MAKE IT SOUND
LIKE EVERYBODY, ALL THE
YUPPIES EXCEPT US ARE TRYING
COCAINE ON THE WEEKENDS.
OR EVEN DOING HEROIN.
DO YOU SEE PEOPLE WHO WERE,
YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONALS,
MIDDLE CLASS, AND THEY
BECOME ADDICTED TO THESE
DRUGS THAT ARE, I THINK,
HARD TO GET AND --

Graeme says I
THINK THAT DRUGS A ARE
AROUND.
CHEMICALS ARE AROUND.
IF YOU PUT ON A TELEVISION
SHOW AND LOOK AT A NATURE
SHOW, YOU'LL FIND THE
GIRAFFES HANG OUT WITH THE
GIRAFFES AND THE LIONS GO
WITH THE LIONS AND DRUG AND
ALCOHOL USERS TEND TO HANG
OUT WITH FOLKS JUST LIKE
THEM.
AND SO THE KIDS THAT HAVE
GOT THE BROKEN BRAIN
CHEMISTRY, WHO ARE LIABLE TO
BECOME ADDICTED, ONCE THEY
GET THEIR REWARD, FROM
WHATEVER CHEMICAL OF USE,
WHETHER IT'S COCAINE, HEROIN,
BEVERAGE, ALCOHOL, NICOTINE,
ONCE THEY'VE HAD THE MEMORY
OF THAT REWARD, THEY WILL
DEVELOP A CULTURE OR A
COMMUNITY THAT WILL ALLOW
THEM TO CONTINUE TO USE THAT
CHEMICAL AND LOOK NORMAL
LIKE ALL THEIR FRIENDS.

Maureen says BUT THEY'VE COME
FROM A BACKGROUND OF TRYING
THESE THINGS.
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY WAKE UP
ONE DAY AT 35 AND THEY'VE
GOT THE MINI VAN IN THE
DRIVEWAY AND THEY SAY “I
THINK I'LL GO BUY SOME
COCAINE AND SEE WHAT THAT'S
LIKE.”

Graeme says
THAT'S RIGHT.
THEY'VE COME FROM A
BACKGROUND WHERE IT'S BEEN
TRIED.
BUT THEIR BRAIN CHEMISTRY'S
WRONG AND SO THEY GET AN
INTENSE REWARD, THEY DON'T
FORGET THAT REWARD.
THEY GET THE URGE TO TRY IT
AGAIN.
IF THEY'RE ADICTED THEY CAN'T
CONTROL IT, AND SO THE
CONSEQUENCES SET IN.”
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE
TRY COCAINE IN THEIR 20
SCOMPZ IN THEIR TEENS.
NOTHING HAPPEN.
SO THEY DON'T TRY IT AGAIN.
ONE OF THE ANXIETIES IN THE
VIETNAM WAR WAS THAT AN
AWFUL LOT OF THE FOLKS WERE
DOING MARIJUANA AND HEROIN.
AND THIS IS WHERE THE 28-DAY
TREATMENT MODEL BEGAN.
ALL THESE GRUNTS COMING BACK
FROM VIETNAM TO THE STATES,
AND ALL ADDICTED TO HEROIN,
IT SAID.
AND IT TURNED OUT THAT 30 percent
OF THEM WERE, BUT ONCE THEY,
THE OTHER 60 percent, THE 70 percent GOT
BACK TO THEIR OWN
ENVIRONMENT --

Maureen says THEY STOPPED
USING IT.

Graeme says
THEY STOPPED.
THEY WEREN'T ADDICT BECAUSE
THEIR BRAIN CHEMISTRY WAS
ALWAYS NORMAL WHERE AS THOSE
WHO HAD A BRAIN CHEMISTRY
DIFFERENT THAN THE REST HAD
AN INTENSE REWARD, DIDN'T
FORGET THAT REWARD.
I CAN TELL YOU THE COLOUR OF
THE WALLPAPER, THE TIME OF
THE DAY, THE PATTERN ON THE
TRAY ON TOP OF THE PIANO,
THE DAY I HAD MY FIRST
DRINK.
IT WAS A PROFOUND MOMENT IN
MY LIFE.
IT LITERALLY FILLED THE
HOLE IN MY SOUL.
THERE WAS AN INTENSE MEMORY
OF REWARD THAT DOESN'T
HAPPEN IN SOCIAL DRINKERS
BUT IT HAPPENS IN PEOPLE
WITH A BROKEN BRAIN
CHEMISTRY OF ADDICTION.

Maureen says I SEE.
WOW, QUITE THE STORY.
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE.
MY DAUGHTER IS 24, IS AN
ALCOHOLIC AND IS IN DENIAL.
SHE REFUSES ALL HELP AND
I'VE BEEN HELPING HER
FINANCIALLY FOR EIGHT YEARS
NOW AND I'VE HAD ENOUGH.
SHE'S RECENTLY BEEN FIRED
FROM HER JOB AND SHE'S
FURIOUS AT ME FOR NOT
LETTING HER COME HOME TO
LIVE.
SHE'S THREATENED SUICIDE
MANY TIMES, AND MANY TIMES
THE THREAT HAS WORKED.
HOWEVER RIGHT NOW I'VE HAD
ENOUGH.
I FOUND NO RELIEF AT ALANON.
ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS?

Graeme says
THE PERSONALITY OF THE
ADDICT IS ALWAYS OF THAT THE
INFANTILE OMNIPOTENCE.
IN OTHER WORDS I'M THE
CENTRE OF THE WORLD AND IF
THINGS GO WRONG, IT'S ALWAYS
YOUR FAULT.
THAT'S THE PERSONALITY OF THE
ADDICT, WHETHER THE ADDICT'S
16 OR 66.
IN RECOVERY YOU DEVELOP A
MORE MATURE PERSONALITY THAT
SAYS HOW CAN I HELP YOU AS
OPPOSED TO WHAT ARE YOU
GOING DO FOR ME?
WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, IF I
CAN PRESUME TO GIVE YOU
ADVICE, AND I'M ALWAYS
RELUCK TANT TO DO THIS OVER
THE AIR, IS TO SET HEALTHY
LIMITS.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT
THIS PERSON FINANCIALLY, I
WOULD ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT YOU
NOT.
BECAUSE A LOT OF THAT MONEY
IS GOING TO DRUGS.
AND YOU'RE ENTITLED TO SAY
NO, I'M NOT GOING TO DO
THIS.
I'M DISAPPOINTED YOU FOUND
ALANON WAS NO HELP.
MAYBE YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS
GOING TO CHANGE YOUR
DAUGHTER AND IT'S NOT GOING
TO DO THAT BUT YOU NEED TO
LEARN HOW TO SET HEALTHY
LIMITS AND IT SOUNDS LIKE
YOU'RE DOING THAT BY SAYING
NO, I WON'T SUPPORT YOU
FINANCIALLY AND I WOULD
SUPPORT THAT.

Maureen asks IS THIS THING
FORGIVE WHEN THE ALCOHOLIC
FINALLY FINDS SOBRIETY?
DOES SHE LOOK BACK AND
REMEMBER MOM YOU WOULDN'T
LET ME MOVE IN WITH YOU WHEN
I NEEDED HELP?
OR DOES SHE UNDERSTAND WHY
HER MOTHER DID THAT?

Graeme says AS PART OF THE
PERSONALITY GROWTH AND
SOBRIETY, THE INDIVIDUAL
COMES TO REALIZE THAT THE
PAINFUL THINGS THAT WERE
DONE TO THEM AND THAT THEY
WERE BLAMING FOR BACK THEN
WERE IN ACTUAL FACT GIFTS OF
CHANGE.
PUTTING IT ANOTHER WAY, MY
GREATEST DEFECT, MY BIGGEST
SECRET AND MY MOST SHAMING
PROBLEM HAS BECOME MY
GREATEST ASSET.
AND I'M EXTREMELY GRATEFUL
NOW, FOR THE THINGS THAT
PEOPLE DID AND SAID TO ME
BACK MANY YEARS AGO.
YOU NEED TO KNOW THAT AS THE
PERSONALITY GROWS IN
RECOVERY, INSIGHT COMES
FIRST.
IN OTHER WORDS THE ABILITY
TO UNDERSTAND MYSELF.
GRATITUDE COMES LATER.
BUT IT DOES COME.

Maureen says GOOD.
ALL RIGHT.
THERE YOU GO.
LET'S GO TO DON IN NEW
HAMBURG.
HI DON.

Don says HI.
I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR THE
DOCTOR.
I'VE BEEN IN RECOVERY FOR
THE LAST NINE AND A HALF
YEARS FROM ALCOHOL.
I WAS A BINGE DRINKER.
I WAS JUST WONDERING, LIKE
WE'VE GOT A THREE-YEAR-OLD
BOY NOW.
I DID PASS IT ONTO HIM OR IS
IT ONE'S CHOICE?

Maureen says I'M ANXIOUS TO
HEAR THIS, TOO.

Graeme says
THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
FIRST OF ALL, GOOD FOR YOU
FOR YOUR NINE AND A HALF
YEARS.
THAT'S A LOT OF DAYS AT A
TIME AND CONGRATULATIONS FOR
THAT.
LET ME TELL YOU -- LET ME
GIVE YOU THE ANSWER BY
TELLING YOU WHAT I'VE TOLD
MY KIDS.
MY KIDS ARE FOUR TIMES MORE
AT RISK OF BECOMING ADDICTED
TO ALCOHOL AND OTHER
CHEMICALS THAN HAD THEY NOT
HAD ME AS A FATHER.
AND THAT'S THE FACTS.
NOW, WHAT THEY DO WITH THAT
INFORMATION HAS TO BE THEIR
BUSINESS.
I'M NOT GOING TO LIVE FOR
THEM.
I HOPE I'VE RAISED THEM AND
MY WIFE HAVE RAISED THEM IN
SUCH WAY THAT THEY BECOME
ADULTS WITH INTEGRITY AND
WITH A MATURE PERSONALITY.
TIME WILL TELL.
IF ONE OF MY CHILDREN TURNS
OUT TO BE ADDICTED, THEN I
CAN BE A ROLE MODEL BY BEING
IN RECOVERY.
SO WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR
THREE-YEAR-OLD, AS IT
BECOMES A FIVE-YEAR-OLD,
TEN-YEAR-OLD, ET CETERA, IS
TO CONTINUE TO MODEL HEALTHY
SOBRIETY, AND THE HONESTY
THAT YOU'VE OBVIOUSLY
LEARNED IN THE LAST NINE AND
A HALF YEARS, AND THAT'S
GOING TO BE FAR MORE OF A
GIFT TO YOUR CHILD THAN
BEING CONCERNED HE BECOME
ADDICTED OR NOT?
HE IS AT GREATER RISK JUST
BECAUSE YOU'RE HIS DAD BUT
HE'S ALSO GOT A DAD WHO'S
DONE AN AWFUL LOT ABOUT IT.

Maureen says THAT'S WHAT WE
TALK ABOUT A LOT IN MY
FAMILY.
NOW THAT WE HAVE RECOVERY
PROGRAMMES AND TREATMENT, IS
THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE
CHILDREN WHO'VE WATCHED THE
PARENT GET TREATMENT ARE
MORE SENSITIVE TO THEIR OWN
HABITS IN DRINKING?

Graeme says
THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I DON'T KNOW OF ANY SCIENCE
THAT SAYS THAT BUT AS
INTERESTING AS I TRAVEL AND
TREAT -- WELL, I INTERACT
WITH MAYBE ABOUT A THOUSAND
PEOPLE YEAR IN TERMS OF
TREATMENT AND THEIR FAMILY
MEMBERS, AND I'M IMPRESSED
ABOUT HOW OFTEN THE CHILDREN
OF RECOVERING PEOPLE ARE
VERY, VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE
AFFECTS OF ALCOHOL AND OTHER
DRUGS ON THEM AND SET THEIR
OWN HEALTHY LIMITS BECAUSE
OF THE MODELLING THEY'VE
SEEN FROM A RECOVERING
PARENT.
THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE TO THIS
THAT'S IMPORTANT, THOUGH.
PART OF HEALTHY SOCIAL
DRINKING IS MODELED TO THE
CHILDREN BY SOCIALLY
DRINKING PARENTS.
AND A HOME WHERE BE ABSTINENCE
MY HOME, FOR EXAMPLE,
IS INSISTED PORNGS MY
CHILDREN DON'T REALLY HAVE
THE BENEFIT OF SEEING SOCIAL
DRINKING EXCEPT WHEN WE GO
OUT FOR DINNER WITH OTHER
FAMILY MEMBERS AND SO THEY
MIGHT NOT GET THE MESSAGE
THAT IT'S OKAY TO HAVE A
GLASS OF WINE AND IT'S OKAY
TO HAVE A BOTTLE OF BEER.
THEY MIGHT GET THE MESSAGE
IN MY HOME THAT ALCOHOL'S
BAD AND THAT'S NOT THE
MESSAGE WE WANT TO GIVE THE
KIDS.

Maureen says I BET YOU TALK
TO THEM ABOUT THAT, THOUGH.

Graeme says I
CERTAINLY TRY TO.

Maureen says OKAY, GOOD LUCK.
THANK YOU, DON FOR THE
QUESTION.
JANE SAYS “MY MOTHER WAS A
BIPOLAR MANIC DEPRESSIVE AND
ALCOHOLIC.
SHE COMMITTED SUICIDE,
HAVING BEEN IN AND OUTS OF
MANY MANY FACILITIES,
INCLUDING HOMEWOOD.
SO MUCH OF MY PAIN CENTRES
AROUND THE LACK OF
FOLLOW-THROUGH THAT YOU
SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER.
ONCE OUT OF A FACILITY, THE
FOLLOW-UP CARE WAS
INADEQUATE, ESPECIALLY FOR A
WOMAN OF MEANS.
SHE WAS NEVER ELIGIBLE FOR
MANY PROGRAMMES OPEN TO THE
DESTITUTE.
SHE WAS DISCHARGED AND LEFT
TO HER OWN DEVICES.”

Graeme says
WELL THAT'S A TRAGIC STORY.
AND ALSO THIS LADY WAS
DEALING WITH A DOUBLE
WHAMMY.
TO BE BIPOLAR AND ALCOHOLIC
IS REALLY DIFFICULT.
FORTUNATELY NOW ADAYS AND IN
THE YEAR 2000 WE'RE MUCH
MORE ENLIGHTENED IN TERMS OF
MENTAL ILLNESS AND ADDICTIVE
ILLNESS.
OFTEN FOLKS WITH MENTAL AND
ADDICTIVE ILLNESS FELL
THROUGH CRACKS.
FOR EXAMPLE AN ALCOHOLIC IN
RECOVERY WHO'S BIPOLAR AND
TAKING A DRUG CALLED LITHIUM
WHICH STABILIZES MOOD GOES
TO AA MEETING AND HE HAS A
MESSAGE IN YOUR AA MEETING
YOU GOT TO STOP ALL YOUR
PILLS OR GOING GOES TO A
MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC WHO
TALKS TO THEM ABOUT THE
MEDICATION BUT IGNORES THE
ASPECTS OF ALCOHOL AND
ALCOHOL RECOVERY, NOW WE'RE
STARTING TO DEVELOP GROUPS
THAT ARE BRIDGING BETWEEN
MENTAL HEALTH AND 12 STEP
COMMUNITY SUPPORTS, AND
DEALING WITH BOTH SIDES AT
THE SAME TIME, AS I SAID
EARLIER.

Maureen asks SO YOU MIGHT
DISCHARGE SOMEONE AFTER WHAT,
28 DAYS?
SOME PEOPLE YOU WERE SAYING
EARLIER STAY FOUR MONTHS.
ARE YOU -- DO YOU ONLY
DISCHARGE WHEN YOU'RE
CONFIDENT THAT THEY'RE GOING
TO BE OKAY?

Graeme says
NO.
WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS WE TRY
TO HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL
CONVINCE US THAT THEY'RE
READY TO GO.
WE DO IT WITH PEERS.
ALL OUR WORK AT THE HOMEWOOD
IS DONE IN A GROUP SETTING.
YOU SEE, IF YOU PUT ME WITH
A PATIENT ONE-ON-ONE, IT
MIGHT BE DIFFICULT WITH ME
BECAUSE OF MY BACKGROUND,
BUT ONE-ON-ONE YOU CAN
USUALLY CON.
YOU PUT ME WITH A GROUP,
THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEONE IN
THAT GROUP THAT'S BEEN THERE,
BOUGHT THE T-SHIRT AND WILL
CALL ME ON IT SO WE DO A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF GROUP
WORK SO WHAT WE DO WITH OUR
FOLKS BEFORE THEY LEAVE IS
HAVE THEM DEVELOP A RECOVERY
PLAN AND THEN SIT DOWN WITH
THEIR PEERS AS WELL AS WITH
STAFF AND SAY HERE'S MY
RECOVERY PLAN.
WHAT DO YOU FOLKS THINK?
NOW WHEN THE PEERS AND THE
STAFF FEEL THAT THAT
RECOVERY PLAN DEVELOPED BY
THE INDIVIDUAL IS SOLID
ENOUGH, WITH ENOUGH CHECKS
AND BALANCES IN THE REAL
WORLD, THEN THAT PERSON'S
READY TO LEAVE.
WE HAVE SEVEN CRITERIA FOR
HEALING THAT WE LOOK AT.
WE CALL THEM CRITERIA FOR
HEALING.
AND WHEN THE SEVEN ARE MET
THAT PERSON'S READY TO MOVE
TO ANOTHER TREATMENT.
WHETHER IT'S MORE INTENSIVE
RESIDENTIAL, WHETHER IT'S
BACK TO THE COMMUNITY IT
DEPENDS ON THE ISSUES.
BUT THESE SEVEN HEALING
CRITERIA WE TALK ABOUT ARE
WHAT WE LOOK AT AS A
TREATMENT TEAM TO MAKE SURE
THAT THE INDIVIDUAL HAS A
PLAN TO COVER OFF SEVEN
POINTS.

Maureen asks AND ARE THESE
PROGRAMMES UNIVERSAL OR ARE
THEY GEARED TO INCOME?
SHE TALKS ABOUT PROGRAMMES
THAT WERE OPEN TO THE
DESTITUTE BUT NOT TO HER
MOTHER.

Graeme says
I'M NOT SURE WHAT SHE MEANS
BY THAT AND I'D BE
SURPRISED.
CERTAINLY IN OUR PROGRAMMES
WE HAVE EVERYTHING FROM, YOU
KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE
MULTI-MILLIONAIRE HOCKEY
STARS TO PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIVING IN THE STREETS SO WE
HAVE A WHOLE SPECTRUM.
I MEAN, THESE ARE HUMAN
BEINGS WITH PAIN AND IT
REALLY DOESN'T MATTER
WHETHER THEY'RE SKID ROW --
THEIR SKID ROW IS ALLENS
GARDENS OR THEIR SKID ROW IS
ROSEDALE.
IT'S STILL SKID ROW.
YOU CAN BE JUST AS HUNG OVER
LYING ON A PLUSH RUG AS ON
THE GRASS IN THE GARDENS.

Maureen says MARCELL IN NORTH
BAY.
HELLO?

Marcell says HI.

Maureen says HI MARCELL.
GO AHEAD.

Marcell says I HAVE QUESTION
FOR THE DOCTOR.
I'VE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH
CLINICAL DEPRESSION AND ALL
THE THINGS THAT GO ALONG
WITH IT, OCD AND ANXIETY AND
MY PROBLEM IS MOSTLY
GAMBLING AND I WAS WONDER
PHYSICAL THERE'S A
CORRELATION BETWEEN GAME
GAMBLING AND ALCOHOL?

Graeme says
YES, THERE IS.
THERE'S A CORRELATION
BETWEEN PATHSPMDLOGIC
GAMBLING AND MENTAL ILLNESS,
FINLEY ENOUGH.
IF YOU'VE GOT AN OCD-TYPE
PERSONALITY, YOU'RE DRIVEN
TOWARDS COMPLSIVE BEHAVIOURS,
AS I'M SURE YOU APPRECIATE,
AND PART OF THAT COMPLSIVE
BEHAVIOUR CAN BE GAMBLING.
SO THERE IS A CORRELATION
BETWEEN GAMBLING AND OTHER
ADDICTIONS.
ONE OF THE TRAGEDIES THAT WE
SEE, AS WE AS A SOCIETY
DEVELOP MORE AND MORE
GAMBLING OPTIONS BECAUSE OF
GOVERNMENTAL GREED, BECAUSE
IT GENERATES A LOT OF INCOME
FOR GOVERNMENT, SO WE SEE A
LOT OF OTHER PROBLEMS
ARISING AROUND PATHOLOGICAL
GAMBLING AND WE'RE LEARNING
MORE AND MORE ABOUT IT ALL
THE TIME.
AND SO THERE'S A VERY CLEAR
CORRELATION WITH
PATHOLOGICAL GAMBLING,
ALCOHOLISM, OTHER DRUG
DEPEND DENSE SEES AND SOME
MENTAL ILLNESS.

Maureen asks HOW DO YOU TREAT
PATHOLOGICAL GAMBLING?

Graeme says
YOU DETOXIFY THEM FROM THE
GAMBLING AND YOU TEACH THEM
HOW TO LIVE FINANCIALLY,
APPROPRIATELY IN A
MISSPENDING WORLD.
IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY.
IN OTHER WORDS TEACH THEM
ABOUT BUDGETING, TEACH THEM
ABOUT HANDLING MONEY, TEACH
THEM ABOUT CREDIT CARDS.
ALL PART AND PARCEL OF
OWNING YOUR OWN BEHAVIOUR
AND DEALING WITH YOUR OWN
FEELINGS IN A HEALTHY WAY,
RATHER THAN GOING OUT AND
GAMBLING TO GET THE
EXCITEMENT OF GAMBLING.

Maureen asks DO
YOU FEEL YOU'VE SEEN AN
INCREASE IN GAMBLING
ADDICTION IN ONTARIO SINCE
CASINOS CAME --

Graeme says
IT'S DIFFICULT AGAIN.
THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG
SITUATION.
WE DEVELOPED A GAMBLING
PROGRAMME AT THE HOMEWOOD
ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS
AGO AND WE'RE TREATING A LOT
OF PATHOLOGICAL GAMBLERS
BECAUSE WE HAVE THE
PROGRAMME AND THEY'RE COMING
TO US FROM ALL OVER CANADA.
DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE
PATHOLOGICAL GAMBLING'S
GREATER NOW BECAUSE OF THE
CASINOS?
I DOUBT IT I THINK IT'S
ALWAYS BEEN THERE.
I THINK IT'S INTERESTING
THAT DEPENDING ON YOUR
PROFESSIONAL STATUS, ONE OF
THE PROFESSIONALS THAT WE
TREAT ARE DOCTORS.
AND OUR DOCTORS DON'T GAMBLE
IN CASINOS, THEY GAMBLE IN
STOCK MARKET.
AND A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT
WE'RE HEARING IN, DRIVING IN
THIS MORNING, LISTENING TO
THE NASDAQ, SOME OF THAT IS
PATHOLOGICAL GAMBLING.

Maureen says IT'S KIND OF
SAD.
WE HAVE TO WORK THE BINGO
EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE.
WE DEPEND ON THOSE ADDICTS
TO HELP CHARITIES IN THIS
PROVINCE, WHICH SOMETIMES
SEEMS TO ME UNETHICAL
SOMEHOW.
BUT YOU KNOW, THEY COME BACK
WEEK AFTER WEEK AND THEY GET
SOMETHING OUT OF IT, BUT
IT'S KIND OF SAD.
THEY LOOK LIKE PEOPLE WHO
DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BE
PLAYING BINGO EVERY WEEK.
YOU KNOW?
SO MARCELL, THANK YOU.
AND GOOD LUCK.
LET'S GO TO ELSE IN
KANATA.
HI ELSE.

Else says HI.
HI.
I'M NERVOUS.

Maureen says THAT'S OKAY.
DON'T BE.

Else says RIGHT NOW I THINK
I'M AN ALCOHOLIC.
I'M SITTING HERE HAVING A
DRINK WATCHING YOUR
PROGRAMME, AND I'VE HEARD
THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO HIT ROCK
BOTTOM BEFORE THEY GET HELP.
I LIVE BY MYSELF.
I HAVE AN ANIMAL THAT'S VERY
PRECIOUS TO ME, AND I
FIND -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO
DO OR WHERE TO GO.
SLIK THERE A ROCK BOTTOM?

Graeme says
MAYBE THIS IS IT, ELSE SEE,
YOU'VE JUST TAKEN A HUGE
STEP.
YOU PHONED A TELEVISION
PROGRAMME AND OVER THE AIR
YOU'VE MADE A STATEMENT THAT
IS -- CARRIES A HUGE AMOUNT
OF SECRETS AND SHAME WITH
IT.
SO IT TELLS ME ONE THING.
IT TELLS ME YOU'RE A VERY
COURAGEOUS WOMAN.
AND LET'S LOOK AT THAT FIRST
OF ALL.
WHAT WOULD A COURAGEOUS
WOMAN DO IN THIS SITUATION?
SHE WOULD REACH OUT FOR
HELP.
AND YOU CAN DO THAT IN
KANATA.
YOU CAN PHONE AA AND ASK TO
SPEAK TO A WOMAN OF THE SAME
AGE AS YOU.
AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.
BECAUSE MY SENSE IS IF YOU
LIVE ALONE AND YOU HAVE A
PET THAT YOU MAY BE IN MY
AGE GROUP OR MAYBE A LITTLE
BIT PAST IT, IF I CAN SAY
THAT, AND IT'S IMPORTANT
THAT YOU HAVE SOMEONE ELSE
LIKE YOU TO TALK TO.
AND IF YOU PHONE AA IN
KANATA FROM THE WHITE PAGES
OF YOUR PHONE BOOK, THEY'LL
CONNECT WITH YOU A LADY JUST
LIKE YOU WHO'S BEEN WHERE
YOU'VE BEEN, KNOWS HOW YOU
FEEL AND MAYBE HAS DONE
SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND SHE
CAN SUPPORT YOU AND TELL YOU
WHAT SHE DID AND IT WILL BE
DONE IN CONFIDENCE AND IT'LL
BE DONE PRIVATELY.

Maureen says SO ROCK BOTTOM
FOR SOME PEOPLE DOESN'T HAVE
TO MEAN YOU'VE LOST
EVERYBODY AND YOUR FAMILY
AND YOU -- BECAUSE IN THE
ELDERLY MAYBE THE FAMILY
ALREADY MOVED OUT.
AND MAYBE A JOB ISN'T A
CONCERN BECAUSE YOU'RE
RETIRED?
I'M NOT SAYING ELSE SEE'S IN
THAT AGE GROUP, BUT WHAT IS
ROCK BOTTOM FOR SOMEONE LIKE
THAT?

Graeme says I
THINK ROCK BOTTOM IS YOU
WHAT CHOOSE YOUR SELF.
YOU GET TO THE POINT OF
SAYING “I CAN NO LONGER GO
ON LIKE THIS” AND THAT MIGHT
BE SKID ROW FOR SOME, BUT
MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, IT'S
NOT.
IT'S THE LOSS OF A JOB.
IT'S THE ABANDONMENT OF A
FAMILY.
IT'S THE LEGAL SITUATION
THAT'S VERY SHAMING, LIKE AN
IMPAIRED DRIVING CHARGE AND
THEY SAY “I CAN'T GO ON.
I NEED HELP.”
AND THROUGH THIS MOTIVATION
THEY GET THIS WINDOW OF
OPPORTUNITY THAT WE TALKED
ABOUT AT THE TOP OF THE
SHOW.
AND LIKE ELSE, THEY
REACH OUT AND HELP.
BUT ELSE IS JUST -- WHAT
ELSE’S JUST DONE IS
TREMENDOUSLY COURAGEOUS.
AND IF SHE DOES THAT AGAIN
IN HER OWN COMMUNITY, AND
CONFIDENT DEN SHALLOW, WITH
AA, HER LIFE IS NEVER GOING
TO BE THE SAME.
THE MESSAGE SHE'S HEARD
TODAY, SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO
BE THIS WAY CAN SHE'S NOT
ALONE.
THE BIGGEST THING YOU CAN DO
WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH
SOMEONE WHO'S ADDICTED IS
TREATMENT THEM WITH RESPECT.
BECAUSE WITH RESPECT YOU
GIVE HOPE.
WHEN YOU'RE DISRESPECTFUL,
THERE'S NO HOPE.
AND SO WHAT I HOPE ELSE
SEE'LL GET OUT OF THIS, THAN
ANYTHING ELSE IS A SENSE
THAT SHE'S NOT BAD, SHE'S
NOT WEAK AND IT DOESN'T HAVE
TO BE THIS WAY, THERE'S
THERE'S SOME HOPE FOR HER.

Maureen asks HOW DO YOU DETAX
IDENTIFY WHEN THERE'S NOBODY
THERE TO MAKE SURE?
YOU KNOW, NOBODY THERE TO
WATCH YOU DO IT?

Graeme says
95 percent OF FOLKS WITH ALCOHOL
DON'T NEED FANCY CARE.
THEY DON'T NEED TO BE IN
DETOX OR A MEDICAL WARD OR
HOSPITAL CARE.
95 percent.
5 percent OF FOLKS DO.
IF SOMEONE'S QUIT DRINKING
IN THE PAST OR GOT INTO
SEIZURE OR HAD DELIRIUM
TREMENS DO.
BUT THE VAST MAJORITY CAN
JUST STOP DRINKING.
THEY MIGHT BE SWEATY, SHAKEY,
OR MAYBE NOT SLEEP FOR THE
NEXT WEEK, BUT IT'S OVER.
THEY DON'T NEED MEDICATION.

Maureen asks WHERE'S THE AA
NUMBER?

Graeme says
IT'S THE WHITE PAGES, FIRST
PAGE.

Maureen says THERE YOU ARE,
ELSE SEE.
THANK YOU FOR CALLING.
EVELYN IS IN OTTAWA.
HI EVELYN.

Evelyn says HI.

Maureen says HI.

Evelyn says I WOULD LIKE TO
KNOW WHY, OR WHAT PROGRAMME
CAN OFFER THE FAMILIES.
BECAUSE ONCE THEY'VE BECOME
ALCOHOLIC OR ADDICTED AND
THEY'VE HAD IT, GONE ON A
PROGRAMME, THEN THEY BECOME
EXTREMELY OCCUPIED TRYING TO
FILL THAT TIME WITH ANOTHER
ADDICTION, PERHAPS IT'S
BINGO, PERHAPS IT'S ARCHERY.
I'M JUST TRYING TO GET
THE -- THE VOICE ON THE TV
IN THE OTHER ROOM IS
ANNOYING.
JUST HOLD ON A SECOND.

Graeme says
SHE HEARS THE ECHO.

Evelyn says CAN YOU HEAR IT,
TOO?
BUT ANYHOW, ALSO THEY BECOME
NEUROTIC.
EVERY SOURCE OF ACHE AND
PAIN, AND THEY'RE
PREOCCUPIED GOING FOR
MEDICAL TREATMENTS
SOMETIMES.

Maureen asks AND THIS IS THE
RECOVERING ALCOHOLIC YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT?

Evelyn says YEAH, THAT
THEY'VE BEEN IN THE RECOVERY
PROGRAMME, BUT THE FAMILY
HAS TO ONESTER WHEN IS IT
GOING TO SLOW DOWN?
THEY BECOME ALMOST ADDICTED
TO SOMETHING ELSE.

Graeme says
THIS IS QUITE, THIS IS VERY
IMPORTANT BECAUSE FOLKS WILL
REPLACE ONE COMPLSIVE
BEHAVIOUR WITH ANOTHER.
UNLESS THEY'RE TAUGHT HOW TO
HAVE BALANCE.
AND THE WAY YOU LEARN HOW TO
HAVE BALANCE IS TO BE WITH
PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEARNED IT
BEFORE.
AND SO THIS INDIVIDUAL
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ISN'T
GOING TO A RECOVERY GROUP
LIKE AA OR AN AFTERCARE
GROUP, AND A FACILITY LIKE
OURS OR ELSEWHERE, THEN
THEY'RE NOT LEARNING HOW TO
HAVE BALANCE SO THEY'RE
GOING TO FEEL RESTLESS,
IRRITABLE AND DISCONTENT.
SO THEY'RE GOING TO ACT ON
THAT GO, GO TO THE DOCTOR
AND GET PRESCRIPTIONS, MAYBE
TRANQUILIZERS OR CODEINE OR
PILLS TO REPLACE THE
ALCOHOL.
THEY GET INTO OTHER
COMPLSIVE BEHAVIOURS LIKE
GAMBLING, OR OTHER COMPLSIVE
BEHAVIOURS WHERE THEY CAN'T
HAVE ANY BALANCE.
AND THE WAY THE PERSON
LEARNS BALANCE IS BY GROWING
TO GROUPS OF SUPPORT LIKE AA
OR LIKE AN AFTERCARE GROUP.
FOR THE FAMILY MEMBERS, THEY
NEED TO GO TO THE SAME KIND
OF SUPPORT GROUPS AS WELL,
SO THAT THEY DON'T TRY TO
CONTROL THE PERSON WHO IS
NOT BEHAVING THE WAY THE
FAMILY WANTS HIM TO BEHAVE.
SCOTT PECK DESCRIBES LOVE AS
BEING, ALLOWING -- YOU LOVE
A PERSON WHEN YOU ALLOW THEM
TO BE THEMSELVES.
SO IF THIS PERSON WANTS TO
SPEND HIS OR HER LIFE IN THE
DOKTTOR'S WAITING ROOM
WAITING FOR PRESCRIPTION US
AND LOVE THEM, THEN YOU HAVE
TO LET THEM DO THAT.
AND ONE HAS TO BACK OFF AND
NOT TRY TO CONTROL THEM.
BECAUSE IF ONE TRIES THAT,
IT JUST LEADS TO FRUSTRATION
AND PAIN AND ANGER.
AND THESE ARE NASTY PLACES
FOR THE FAMILY TO BE.
AND THE FAMILY NEEDS TO --
AND DESERVES THEIR OWN
SUPPORT AROUND THIS YOUR
FAMILY DOCTOR WILL BE ABLE
TO HELP NEW TERMS OF WHAT
RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE AND
YOUR OWN COMMUNITIES SUPPORT
YOU.
IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

Maureen says I GUESS THAT IS
A GOOD POINT FOR THE FAMILY
TO REMEMBER IN THAT EVEN
WHEN THE ALCOHOLIC STOPS
DRINKING, SOME OF THE OTHER
THINGS ABOUT THEIR
PERSONALITY THAT BOTHERED
YOU MAY STILL BE THERE.
THAT WASN'T ALL BECAUSE OF
DRINKING.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, DO YOU
LOVE HIM OR DON'T YOU?

Graeme says IF
YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN THE STOP
STEPS TO MATURE YOUR OWN
PERSONALITY AND ADDICTIVE
PERSONALITY, GOING FROM THAT
BLAME BEING, AND I'M CENTRE
OF THE WORLD, IF YOU HAVEN'T
TAKEN THE STEPS NECESSARY TO
MATURE AND GROW UP, YOU'RE
GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE
MISERABLE AND THE FAMILY
WILL SAY QUIT WISH YOU WERE
DRINKING.
YOU WERE MORE FUNNY...”
BECAUSE THE PERSON'S NOT
MADE THE CHANGES NECESSARY
TO BE COME GORTABLE IN THEIR
OWN SKIN.
IT'S A TERRIBLE PLACE TO BE.
IT'S AWFUL.
WHAT THE AA FOLKS CALL A DRY
DRUNK.
IT'S NOT A NICE PLACE TO BE.

Maureen says BEST OF LUCK
EVELYN.
I THINK WE'LL END ON THIS
E-MAIL FROM LINDA “I'VE
LIVED WITH MY BOYFRIEND
ABOUT EIGHT MONTHS, BEEN
WITH HIM OR A YEAR AND A
HALF AND I SEE THAT BEER
SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM FOR
HIM.
IF HE HAS ONE BEER, HE HAS
TO HAVE TEN.
CAN HIS ADDICTION BE ONLY TO
BEER OR IS ALCOHOL A
PROBLEM?
SHOULD I ASK HIM NOT TO
DRINK BEER OR ANY ALCOHOL?
HE DOES HAVE A FAMILY
HISTORY OF ALCOHOLISM.”

Graeme says
WHOLE BUNCH OF POINTS,
LINDA.
FIRST OF ALL THE FAMILY HISTORY
MAKES HIM MORE AT RISK.
IF HE CANNOT PREDICT WITH
CERTAINTY WHAT HIS
BEHAVIOUR'S GOING TO BE LIKE
ONCE HE'S STARTED DRINKING
BEER, THEN HE'S ALCOHOLIC.
AND HE CAN'T CONTROL HIS
DRINKING JUST BY DEFINITION.
AND SO ASKING HIM TO CHANGE,
MODIFY, STAY ON LIGHT BEER
OR JUST DRINK WHISKEY OR
WHATEVER IT IS NOT GOING
TO MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.
ALCOHOL IS ALCOHOL IS
ALCOHOL.
WHETHER IT'S 12-YEAR-OLD
SCOTCH, CHINESE COOKING WINE,
GOOF, RUBBY, AFTERSHAVE,
IT'S ALL ALCOHOL.
AND IF YOU'VE GOT THE
ADDICTED CHEMISTRY IN YOUR
BRAIN NO, MATTER WHAT
ALCOHOL YOU TAKE, YOU'RE
GOING TO TRIGGER THAT AND
YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE CONTROL
AND DRINK TOO MUCH.
SO THIS MAN, IF HE IS
ALCOHOLIC HAS TO STOP.
THE WAY TO FIND THAT OUT IS
TO HAVE HIM ASSESSED AND HE
CAN DO THAT THROUGH HIS
FAMILY DOCTOR OR THROUGH
YOUR COMMUNITY ALCOHOL AND
DRUG AGENCY IN CONFIDENCE
AND IN PRIVATE.
AND THAT WOULD BE REASONABLE
FOR YOU TO SAY TO HIM
“LISTEN, I'M REALLY
UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN YOU
DRINK.
IF WE'RE TO CONTINUE IN A
RELATIONSHIP, MAYBE YOU
SHOULD BE ASSESSED TO MAKE
SURE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE
SAME PROBLEM AS OTHER
MEMBERS IN YOUR FAMILY HAD.”

Maureen says AND IF HE SAYS
“WHAT ARE YOU TALKING
ABOUT?!
YOU MUST BE OFF YOUR ROCKER,
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH
ME, SHE SHOULD WHAT?”

Graeme says
IT'S UNCOMFORTABLE FOR ME TO
TELL HER WHAT TO DO BUT IF
SHE'S NOT MARRIED AND SHE
DOESN'T HAVE A LEGAL TIE, I
WOULD GET THE HELL OUT OF
THERE.

Maureen says ALL RIGHT.
MELINDA, GOOD LUCK.
IT WAS GREAT TO HAVE YOU
HERE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR
CANDIDNESS AND ADVICE THIS
AFTERNOON.
Dr. GRAEME CUNNINGHAM IS THE
DIRECTOR OF ADDICTION
TREATMENT AT THE HOMEWOOD
HEALTH CENTRE IN GUELPH.
FOR MORE INFORMATION YOU CAN
CONTACT HOMEWOOD AT
519-824-1010.

A slate appears on screen. It reads “Homewood Health Centre. 519 824-1010. www.homewoodhealth.com.”

Maureen continues OR VISIT THEIR WEBSITE AT
WWW.HOMEWOODHEALTH.COM.

The slate changes to “Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. www.camh.net.”

Maureen continues YOU CAN ALSO FIND RESOURCES
ON THE CENTRE FOR ADDICTION
AND MENTAL HEALTH WEBSITE AT
WWW.CAMH.NET.
THANKS FOR WATCHING,
I’M MAUREEN TAYLOR,
TUNE IN MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY
AT ONE O’ CLOCK.

A closing slate reads “The advice given in the preceding program is of a general nature only. Viewers should consult their own medical professional for medical advice specific to their circumstances.”

Watch: Alcoholism