Transcript: Show #261 | Feb 17, 2002


The opening sequence rolls.

Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON
4TH READING, SEEING RED.
ELIZABETH WITMER VENTURES
INTO RED TORY TERRITORY,
AND HOPES THE REST OF
THE PARTY WILL FOLLOW.

Steve, Richard, Mac, and Ruth sit with a guest around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a beige blazer over a black polo t-shirt.

Richard is in his fifties, clean-shaven and with short wavy gray hair. He wears a blue suit, a white shirt and a polka dotted gray tie.

Mac is in his fifties, clean-shaven and with very short white hair. He wears a blue shirt under a black blazer.

Ruth is in her mid-sixties, with short straight white hair. She wears a striped shirt under a red jacket.

Steve says GOOD AFTERNOON,
EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
AND WELCOME TO THIS
EDITION OF 4TH READING.
SHE HAS SAID THE COMMON
SENSE REVOLUTION IS OVER,
BUT MAKES NO APOLOGIES
FOR HER PART
IN THAT RAUCOUS PART OF
OUR POLITICAL HISTORY.
SHE SAYS THE TORIES MUST
TAKE A MORE INCLUSIVE
AND CONCILIATORY
APPROACH.
YET AT THE SAME TIME,
CRITICS AND COLLEAGUES
ALIKE HAVE DUBBED
HER THE ICE QUEEN.
AND WHILE SHE'S KNOWN AS
ONE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S
BEST POLITICAL FIXERS,
CRITICS SAY SHE HASN'T
LIVED UP TO HER REPUTATION
AS ENVIRONMENT MINISTER
IN THE POST-WALKERTON ERA.
BUT ELIZABETH WITMER
IS DETERMINED
TO BE THE NEW LEADER
OF THE PROGRESSIVE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY,
AND THE FIRST FEMALE
PREMIER OF THIS PROVINCE.
IN A MOMENT, WE'LL ASK HER
WHERE SHE'LL TAKE ONTARIO.
FIRST, A LOOK AT THE
CAMPAIGN SO FAR.

A clip shows Elizabeth Witmer shaking hands with supporters.

[cheering]

A caption reads Elizabeth Witmer. Ontario P.C Leadership Candidate. Campaign Launch, November 23d, 2001.”

Elizabeth is in her mid-fifties, with short slightly wavy brown hair in a Bob cut. She wears a deep green blouse with white rims and a pale green blazer.

She says YOU CAN BE ASSURED THAT
IN THE NEXT FOUR MONTHS
I WILL BE ARTICULATING MY
VISION AND MY POLICIES
AS TO HOW I BELIEVE WE CAN
MOVE FORWARD AND MAKE
THIS PROVINCE AN EVEN BETTER
PLACE IN WHICH TO LIVE.

The caption changes to “Christina Blizzard. The Toronto Sun.”

Christina is in her sixties, with short straight white hair. She wears glasses, a gray sweater and a black jacket.

She says SHE'S BEEN RUNNING AN
ALMOST HIDDEN CAMPAIGN.
I THINK HER STRATEGY IS
TO KEEP UNDER THE RADAR
FOR THE FIRST FEW MONTHS
WHEN SOME OF THE OTHERS
HAVE BEEN OUT THERE
BASHING EACH OTHER.

A clip rolls with the caption “Ontario PC Leadership Debate. Candidates to succeed Mike Harris debate issues. February 12.”

Tony Clement says I TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY
TO VISIT YOUR WEBSITE,
ERNIE, AND THERE'S NO
ACTION VERBS, HERE, FOLKS.
THERE'S NO ACTION.

Christine says THE FRONT
RUNNERS, THE ERNIE EVES,
THE TONY CLEMENTS AND THE
JIM FLAHERTYS PERHAPS
ATTACK ONE ANOTHER.
LET THEM ALL TAKE THEIR
VARIOUS KNOCKS, PERHAPS,
YOU KNOW, DEAL SOME DEATH
BLOWS TO ONE ANOTHER,
AND THEN JUST COME
UP THE MIDDLE.

The caption changes to “Elizabeth PC Leadership Candidate. London.”

Elizabeth says THE HYDRO RATES IN THIS
PROVINCE ARE GOING TO
REMAIN AS COMPETITIVE IN
THE FUTURE AS THEY DO TODAY.
AND I BELIEVE THAT IS
GOING TO MEAN AN IMMEDIATE
REVIEW OF THE DECISION
THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE
IN ORDER THAT WE
CLEARLY UNDERSTAND
THE CONSEQUENCES.

Christine says SHE
FINALLY DID CUT THROUGH,
IN THIS WEEK'S
DEBATE IN LONDON,
SHE WAS VERY FEISTY.
SHE CAME OUT SWINGING,
WHICH WAS WHAT SHE REALLY
NEEDS TO DO IF SHE NEEDS
TO ENGAGE AND TO SAY
TO PEOPLE, YES, I AM IN
THIS CAMPAIGN AS WELL.

Elizabeth says THE REVOLUTION IS OVER,
BUT COMMON SENSE
WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL
IN THIS PROVINCE.

Steve says SO IF THE
REVOLUTION IS OVER,
WHERE ARE WE GOING IN THE
POST REVOLUTIONARY ERA?
LET US ASK AND WELCOME
ELIZABETH WITMER,
PC LEADERSHIP CANDIDATE,
MINISTER OF THE ENVIRONMENT,
AND MEMBER FOR
KITCHENER-WATERLOO.
WELCOME BACK TO
TVO, ELIZABETH.
NICE TO HAVE
YOU HERE.

Elizabeth says PLEASURE
TO BE HERE, STEVE.
YOU KNOW OUR
GANG OVER HERE.

Elizabeth says I SURE DO.

Steve says THERE'S RUTH
GRIER, ANOTHER FORMER
ENVIRONMENT MINISTER.
SEEM TO BE A FEW OF THEM
AT THE TABLE HERE TODAY.
RICHARD MAHONEY FROM
BOREALIS CAPITAL,
AND MAC PENNEY, NOT WITH -
WE WON'T SAY THAT ANYMORE.

Mac says THAT'S RIGHT.

Steve says A NEW TITLE.
NATIONAL PUBLIC
RELATIONS.
THANK YOU FOR COMING
IN OUT OF THE COLD.
YOU'VE BEEN DOING ALL
THE DEBATES YOURSELF,
SO NOW YOU'RE
BACK WITH US,
WHICH IS A
BEAUTIFUL THING.

Mac says I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING
ALL THE DEBATES, STEVE.
THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW
CANDIDATES THERE DEBATING.

Steve says THAT'S TRUE.
WE HAVE ONE OF THEM HERE,
LET'S TALK TO THEM.
LET'S TACKLE THIS ICE QUEEN
THING RIGHT OFF THE TOP,
AND THIS BUSINESS OF
WHETHER YOU ARE -
WELL, I'LL JUST
GET TO IT.
YOU OFFERED YOURSELF UP AS
THE CANDIDATE IN LONDON
THIS PAST WEEK, AS THE
CANDIDATE WHO CAN BRING
CERTAINTY AND STABILITY IN
PUBLIC POLICY IN ONTARIO.
YOU WEREN'T PUTTING
YOURSELF OUT THERE AS THE
CANDIDATE OF BOLD VISION
OR EXCITING IDEAS OR
DYNAMIC LEADERSHIP, BUT
CERTAINTY AND STABILITY.
NOW, IS THAT A SORT OF
GOOD ENOUGH CLARION CALL
TO THE MEMBERS OF THE
PARTY TO GET OUT THERE
AND VOTE FOR YOU?

Elizabeth says STEVE, IT'S A CALL JUST
NOT TO THE PEOPLE IN THE
PARTY, BUT PEOPLE
IN THE PROVINCE.
AS I'VE TRAVELLED
THE PROVINCE,
PEOPLE HAVE SAID TO ME
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR
CERTAINTY IN HEALTHCARE,
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR
STABILITY IN EDUCATION,
AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR US
TO ENSURE THAT THERE
ARE SAFE COMMUNITIES,
HEALTHY COMMUNITIES,
THAT WE PROTECT
THE ENVIRONMENT.
THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE
ARE ASKING FOR.
AFTER THE YEARS OF REFORM,
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR US NOW
TO TAKE THE TIME TO
IMPLEMENT THE REFORMS.

Steve says SO WE'VE HAD ENOUGH
OF BREAKING EGGS,
AND WE NEED SOMEONE TO
COOL DOWN THINGS A BIT.
IS THAT THE IDEA?

Elizabeth says WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE
BUILD THE BRIDGES WITH
PEOPLE IN THE PROVINCE,
AND THAT WE IMPLEMENT
THOSE REFORMS AND CONTINUE
TO MAKE THIS A GOOD PLACE
IN WHICH TO LIVE.

Steve says OKAY, YOU ALSO RAISED THE
EYEBROWS OF YOUR COLLEAGUES
AT THAT DEBATE EARLIER
THIS WEEK IN LONDON WHEN
YOU SAID YOU WANTED AN
IMMEDIATE REVIEW OF THE
GOVERNMENT'S DECISION TO
OPEN UP THE ELECTRICITY
MARKET TO COMPETITION.
WHY DO YOU WANT THAT
IMMEDIATE REVIEW?

Elizabeth says WELL, I CAN TELL YOU
THAT THERE'S A LOT
OF CONCERN IN
THE PROVINCE.
I'VE TRAVELLED THE PROVINCE
NOW FOR SEVERAL WEEKS.
AND EACH AND EVERY DAY
I HEAR CONCERNS FROM
FARMERS, BUSINESS
OWNERS, HOMEOWNERS,
THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
ON MAY 1ST.
AND THEY NEED TO HAVE SOME
CERTAINTY THAT THE RATES
ARE GOING TO REMAIN
COMPETITIVE.
THE PREMIER HAS ALREADY
COMMITTED TO PROTECT
THE CUSTOMER, AND ALSO TO
ENSURE RELIABLE SUPPLY OF
ELECTRICITY, AND I CAN TELL
YOU WHEN I BECOME PREMIER,
I'M GOING TO REVIEW
WHERE WE HAVE COME FROM,
WHERE WE ARE GOING
IN CONJUNCTION WITH,
OBVIOUSLY THE PEOPLE
INVOLVED, THE OEB,
AND THE ELECTRICITY
OPERATOR,
IN ORDER THEY HAVE THE
TOOLS TO PROTECT
THE CUSTOMER AND GIVE THEM
SOME CERTAINTY REGARDING
STABLE, COMPETITIVE,
HYDRO RATES.

Steve says OKAY, BUT IF THE PREMIER
HAS ALREADY SAID THE RATES
AREN'T GOING TO GO CRAZY,
AND YOU JUST POINTED OUT
THE ONTARIO ENERGY BOARD
IS IN BUSINESS TO
MAKE SURE THE RATES
DON'T GO CRAZY,
WHY DO YOU NEED AN
IMMEDIATE REVIEW?

Elizabeth says BECAUSE THERE'S A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ANXIETY.
IN FACT, THE QUESTION
ON TUESDAY NIGHT WAS
A QUESTION, I BELIEVE,
FROM SOMEONE IN THE
AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY
OUTSIDE OF LONDON,
AND THE QUESTION WAS
AGRICULTURAL OPERATORS,
SMALL BUSINESSES AND
FARMERS ARE CONCERNED
THAT AS OF MAY 1ST, PRICES
ARE GOING TO INCREASE.
I HEAR IT EVERY DAY, AND
WE NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE
THE REASSURANCE THAT THAT
IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Steve says YOU WANT TO BACKTRACK
ON THE POLICY?

Elizabeth says NO.
AS PREMIER, I'M GOING TO
BE PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN
ORDER TO REVIEW AND MAKE
SURE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Steve says CHRIS STOCKWELL SAID HE WAS
DUMBFOUNDED WHEN YOU SAID
THAT, AND TONY CLEMENT
SAID YOU'RE GOING DOWN
THE WRONG ROAD BY
SAYING THAT.
ARE THEY WRONG?

Elizabeth says I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE
THEY ARE DENYING THE FACT
PEOPLE IN THIS PROVINCE
ARE VERY ANXIOUS ABOUT
WHAT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN AFTER MAY 1ST.
THEY DIDN'T ANSWER THE
QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED.

Steve says JIM FLAHERTY HAS ANNOUNCED
WHAT HE CALLS A VERY TOUGH
BUT IN HIS WORDS,
COMPASSIONATE PLAN
TO DEAL WITH
THE HOMELESS.
AND I'D LIKE TO GET
YOUR VIEWS ON THIS.
HE WANTS TO HIRE SPECIAL
CONSTABLES WHO WILL TAKE
THE HOMELESS TO EITHER
SHELTERS OR HOSPITALS,
OR IN SOME CASES,
IF NECESSARY, JAIL,
BUT THEY WILL NO LONGER,
IF HE IS PREMIER,
BE ALLOWED TO STAY
ON THE STREETS.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION
TO THAT ANNOUNCEMENT?

Elizabeth says I WAS ABSOLUTELY
DISGUSTED WHEN I
HEARD THE ANNOUNCEMENT.
I WAS DISAPPOINTED.
IT IS TOTALLY DEVOID
OF ANY COMPASSION.
AND ALSO, UNDERSTANDING
OF THE ROOT CAUSES
OF HOMELESSNESS.
MOST OF THESE PEOPLE
ARE PEOPLE WHO SUFFER
FROM VERY SERIOUS
MENTAL ILLNESS.
THEY SUFFER
ADDICTION PROBLEMS.
IT'S ALSO GOING 180
DEGREES IN THE OPPOSITE
DIRECTION FROM WHERE OUR
GOVERNMENT'S BEEN GOING.
I THINK HE'S FORGOTTEN
WE DID PUT IN PLACE
SOME MENTAL HEALTH COURTS
IN ORDER TO DIVERT
PEOPLE FROM THE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM,
AND TO PROVIDE THEM
WITH ACCESS TO CARE
AND TREATMENT.
HE'S GOING IN
THE OPPOSITE WAY.
HE WANTS TO CRIMINALIZE
THESE PEOPLE ONCE AGAIN
AND NOT GIVE THEM ANY
OPPORTUNITY TO ACCESS
TREATMENT AND CARE.

Steve says YOU AND JIM ARE
NOT BEST BUDDIES IN THIS
CAMPAIGN BECAUSE YOU ALSO
LASHED OUT AT HIM DURING
THE LAST DEBATE IN LONDON
WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT
BANNING TEACHER STRIKES.
AND YOU SAID, YOU HAVE
TOTALLY LOST SIGHT
OF WHAT'S IMPORTANT,
AND THAT'S
THE KIDS IN THE
CLASSROOM.

Elizabeth says HE HAS.

Steve says YOU STICK BY THAT.

Elizabeth says I CERTAINLY DO.

Steve says DID YOU TWO DO
BUSINESS TOGETHER
THE LAST SIX YEARS AT
THE SAME CABINET TABLE?

Elizabeth says I CAN TELL YOU IF WE WANT
TO IMPROVE EDUCATION
IN THE CLASSROOM, THE FIRST
THING THAT YOU DO AS
PREMIER IS NOT TO BAN THE
RIGHT TO STRIKE BECAUSE
THAT IS SIMPLY GOING TO
CAUSE MORE DISRUPTION.
WE'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THAT.
WE NEED TO START TO BUILD
BRIDGES WITH OUR TEACHERS.
WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO
IMPLEMENT THOSE REFORMS.

Steve says OKAY, LET'S TALK A BIT
ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.
I WANT TO INVITE
MISSUS GRIER,
ONE OF YOUR PREDECESSORS TO
COME IN HERE AT THIS STAGE
AND ASK WHETHER YOU
THINK ADMITTEDLY,
YOU HAVEN'T HAD THE
ENVIRONMENT PORTFOLIO FOR
ALL THAT LONG, BUT
WHETHER OR NOT THINGS
HAVE IMPROVED UNDER
ELIZABETH WITMER'S TIME
IN ENVIRONMENT, WHERE SHE'S
BEEN, AND ALSO IN HEALTH,
ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR
FORMER PORTFOLIOS.

Elizabeth says
THAT'S RIGHT.

The caption changes to “Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister.”

Ruth says WELL, YES, AND I THINK
WE'RE THE ONLY TWO WHO
HAVE SHARED THOSE
TWO PORTFOLIOS.
LET ME START WITH
ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE I'D BE
INTERESTED IN THE
MINISTER'S COMMENT ON
MY ASSESSMENT THAT
FOR THE LAST YEAR,
YOU'VE BEEN IMPLEMENTING
THE REPORT KNOWN AS THE
GIBBONS REPORT, WHICH
IS PREMIER ACCEPTED,
AND WHERE THE THRUST IS
VERY MUCH IN LINE
WITH THE RED TAPE
COMMISSION DEREGULATING
DEVOLVING OPERATIONS.

Steve says WE SHOULD EXPLAIN, RUTH,
THIS IS A POST-WALKERTON
REPORT THE
PREMIER ASKED FOR.

Ruth says O, IT CAME PRE-WALKERTON,
AND IT'S VERY MUCH PRE
THE REPORT FROM O'CONNOR,
BUT AFTER THE EVENT.

Steve says AFTER THE
EVENTS OF WALKERTON.

Ruth says AND THE POINT I WANT TO
MAKE IS IT REALLY IS VERY
MUCH AT VARIANCE WITH THE
O'CONNOR REPORT WHICH
IS ABOUT REGULATING
STANDARDS ENFORCEMENT.
AND I'M INTERESTED TO
KNOW HOW, AS PREMIER,
YOU'RE GOING TO RECONCILE
THOSE TWO DIRECTIONS?

Elizabeth says WELL, I THINK WHAT I HAVE
BEEN DOING IS FOCUSSING
ON THE ISSUES THAT REALLY
MATTER TO PEOPLE.
AND THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE
IS TO ENSURE WE HAVE SAFE
DRINKING WATER IN THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
SO I'VE BEEN MOVING FORWARD
WITH THE IMPLEMENTATION
OF THE OPERATION CLEAN
WATER DIRECTIVE,
AND REGULATION 459.
AND I GUESS I'VE ALSO
BEEN MOVING FORWARD
WITH THE ISSUE OF
PROTECTION OF AIR QUALITY.
BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME VERY
SERIOUS PROBLEMS IN THE
PROVINCE, AND I'VE EXPANDED
THE DRIVE CLEAN PROGRAM.
I'VE MADE SURE WE ARE IN
A POSITION THAT LAKEVIEW
WILL NO LONGER BE
ABLE TO BURN COAL.

Ruth says WELL,
THAT'S DEBATABLE.

Elizabeth says ALSO, WE'RE WORKING WITH
INDUSTRY IN ORDER THAT THEY
ARE NOW IN A POSITION WHERE
THEY HAVE TO IDENTIFY
THE POLLUTION THAT'S BEING
RELEASED INTO THE AIR.
SO WE'VE BEEN VERY
FOCUSSED ON IMPLEMENTING
THE ACTIONS THAT ARE
NECESSARY FOR THE PROTECTION
OF OUR ENVIRONMENT.

Ruth says SO IN REVIEWING THE HYDRO
DECISIONS, WILL YOU,
AS MINISTER OF
THE ENVIRONMENT,
OR HAVE YOU INSISTED THAT
SOME OF THE PROVIDERS OF
POWER PROVIDE GREEN OR
NON-POLLUTING POWER
AS PART OF THOSE CONTRACTS?

Elizabeth says RUTH, I CAN TELL YOU THAT
I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE.
AND I THINK IF YOU TAKE
A LOOK AT ONE OF THE
PRINCIPLES THAT THE
PREMIER HAS SAID NEEDS TO
BE IN PLACE IS AS WE OPEN
THE MARKET AFTER MAY 1ST,
IT WOULD PROVIDE
MORE OPPORTUNITIES
FOR GREEN POWER.

Ruth says SO YOU'D PUT A FIXED
PERCENTAGE OF SAY,
10 PERCENT, THAT THEY'D
HAVE TO PROVIDE?

Elizabeth says I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE A
LOOK AT DOING WHAT WE CAN
TO IMPROVE AIR QUALITY.

Steve says I KNOW ERNIE EVES HAS SAID
HE IS DALTON MCGUINTY'S
WORST NIGHTMARE, BUT LET
ME ASK RICHARD WHETHER OR
NOT MISSUS WITMER POSES AN
EQUAL PROBLEM FOR THE
LIBERAL PARTY, IN AS MUCH
AS SHE IS CLEARLY TRYING
TO DISTANCE HERSELF FROM
THE SORT OF SMALL-C
RIGHT WING ASPECT OF
THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY,
AND OCCUPY MUCH MORE OF - I
THINK WHAT JIM FLAHERTY
CALLS THE MUSHY MIDDLE -
YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T CALL
IT THAT, BUT CLEARLY A
MORE CENTRIST CANDIDATE.
AND PRESUMABLY SOMEBODY WHO
WOULD GIVE YOUR PARTY MORE
TROUBLES THAN SOMEONE WHO
IS OTHER ON THE FRINGES.
IS THAT'S FAIR TO SAY?

The caption changes to “Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor.”

Richard says I MUST SAY, I'M A BIT
ALARMED AS I LISTEN TO HER
HOW MUCH I'M AGREEING
WITH HER TODAY.

Elizabeth says OH,
THAT'S WONDERFUL.

Ruth says THAT SAYS A LOT
ABOUT DALTON
AND LESS ABOUT
Miss WITMER.

Richard says NO, I THINK HOWARD
HAMPTON, DALTON MCGUINTY,
AND ALMOST EVERYONE IN
ONTARIO WOULD AGREE
WITH HER COMMENTS ON
MISTER FLAHERTY'S ANNOUNCEMENT
ON CRIMINALIZING
THE MENTALLY ILL.
I THINK WHAT SHE SAYS ABOUT
HER OPPOSITION TO BANNING
TEACHERS' STRIKES
MAKES GOOD SENSE.
I GUESS THE ONE THING I
WOULD SAY TO HER IS THOSE
ARE ALL GOOD THINGS.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE
IN THE PROVINCE,
AND MOST PEOPLE IN THE
LEGISLATURE AGREE WITH,
AND IT'S REFRESHING TO
HEAR A TORY TALK THAT WAY.
MY ONLY ONE QUESTION WOULD
BE WHERE WERE YOU WHEN
YOUR PREMIER WAS DOING
ALL THESE WEDGE ISSUES,
JUST LIKE MISTER FLAHERTY DID?
THE PREMIER CAMPAIGNED ON
CRACKING DOWN ON WELFARE,
ON MANDATORY DRUG TESTING,
ON MENTAL HEALTH.
THEY'VE ALREADY HAD SEVERAL
ANNOUNCEMENTS ON THAT,
GETTING SQUEEGEE
KIDS OFF THE STREET.
THESE ARE ALL
THE WEDGE ISSUES.
WHAT I THINK YOU'RE SAYING
IS NOW WE'VE HAD ENOUGH
OF THIS WEDGE
ISSUE APPROACH.

Steve says LET'S ASK.
DID YOU ARGUE AGAINST
ANY OF THIS STUFF
AT THE CABINET TABLE?
YOU DON'T SOUND LIKE
YOU'RE IN FAVOUR
OF SOME OF THAT
STUFF.

Elizabeth says ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS
AT THE CABINET TABLE,
AS YOU KNOW, IS
CONFIDENTIAL.

Steve says I TOOK A SHOT.

Elizabeth says BUT THAT'S WHERE OBVIOUSLY
THE DEBATE TAKES PLACE.
AND ALSO IN CAUCUS.
AND, YOU KNOW,
WE'VE HAD SOME
VERY HEALTHY DEBATE
ON MANY ISSUES.

Steve says BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE
YOU'RE OPPOSED TO SO MANY
OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE
ULTIMATELY BEEN IMPLEMENTED
BY THIS GOVERNMENT.

Elizabeth says NOT WHAT WE'VE DONE, BUT
I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE
FORWARD NOW AND MAKE SURE
SOME OF THE REFORMS THAT
WE HAVE INTRODUCED ARE
SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED.

Richard says I GUESS WHAT I
WOULD SAY IS SOME OF THESE
ISSUES DID HAPPEN UNDER
MISS WITMER'S WATCH.
I'M REFRESHED TO HEAR
HER SAY IT NOW,
BUT 10,000 NURSES
WERE FIRED -

Elizabeth says NO, THEY WERE NOT FIRED
UNDER THEIR WATCH.

Richard says THEY'RE ALL
WORKING NOW?

Elizabeth says NO, ACTUALLY, THOSE
NURSES THAT YOU REFER TO,
THE MAJORITY OF THEM
ACTUALLY LEFT DURING
THE TIME OF THE NDP.
AND THAT IS INFORMATION
THAT IS NOT FACTUALLY CORRECT.

Richard says SO THE GOVERNMENT
OF ONTARIO DID NOT,
POST '95, FIRE
ANY NURSES?

Elizabeth says NO.
I SET UP THE NURSING TASK
FORCE IN '97 WHEN I BECAME
MINISTER OF HEALTH.
WE HAVE INVESTED
OVER 300,000 DOLLARS,
AND WE'VE ALSO SEEN
THE CREATION OF 12,000
ADDITIONAL
NURSES POSITIONS.
I WAS ACTUALLY THE ONE
THAT LISTENED TO NURSES,
RICHARD, AND HAVE MOVED
FORWARD TO IMPLEMENT
THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE
TASK FORCE THAT THE NURSES
WERE PARTICIPANTS IN.

Ruth says YOU'VE CREATED
THE POSITIONS,
BUT ARE THERE NURSES
IN THOSE POSITIONS?

Elizabeth says THERE ARE.
I UNDERSTAND.
THE INFORMATION CAME
OUT SINCE I LEFT HEALTH
MINISTRY THAT THOSE
POSITIONS HAVE BEEN CREATED.

Richard says YOU'VE RAISED
THE ISSUE IN THE CAMPAIGN
RATHER EFFECTIVELY
IN HEALTHCARE,
AND YOU'VE BEEN
CRITICAL ON MISTER EVES'
COMMENTS ON TWO
TIER HEALTHCARE.

Elizabeth says THAT'S RIGHT,
I HAVE BEEN.

Richard says DO YOU THINK IF HE BECOMES
PREMIER IT'S A THREAT TO
OUR UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE
SYSTEM IN ONTARIO?

Elizabeth says AFTER THREE-AND-A-HALF
YEARS AS MINISTER OF
HEALTH THAT WE CAN SUSTAIN
THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE,
THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE
CERTAINTY TO PEOPLE.
THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE
WE FACE RIGHT NOW
ACCESSIBILITY
TO PROVIDERS,
WHETHER THAT'S NURSES,
DOCTORS, PHARMACISTS,
OCCUPATIONAL THERAPISTS,
ACCESSIBILITY TO
SERVICES AND TREATMENT.
AND I THINK THE FIRST THING
WE NEED TO DO IS DEVELOP
A HUMAN RESOURCE PLAN.

Richard says YOU DIDN'T EXACTLY
ANSWER HIS QUESTION.
THE ELECTION OF EVES,
IF IT WAS TO HAPPEN,
IF YOU WERE TO
LOSE TO HIM,
DOES THAT POSE
A THREAT TO -

Elizabeth says I'M NOT GOING TO TALK
ABOUT MISTER EVES BECAUSE
I'M VERY CONFIDENT THAT
COME MARCH 23RD,
THAT I'M GOING
TO BE PREMIER.

Ruth says SO WOULD YOU MOVE MORE
AGGRESSIVELY ON WHAT'S
KNOWN AS THE REFORM
OF PRIMARY CARE?
AND INSTEAD OF
MAKING IT VOLUNTARY,
WOULD YOU USE SOME MUSCLE
TO GET THE DOCTORS
INTO NETWORKS FOR
PRIMARY CARE?

Elizabeth says AS YOU KNOW, RUTH, THE
PLAN THAT WE HAVE AT THE
PRESENT TIME IS AT THE
END OF THE FOUR YEARS,
80 PERCENT OF THE DOCTORS
WOULD HAVE BECOME INVOLVED
IN THE FAMILY
HEALTH NETWORKS.

Ruth says IF THEY HAVEN'T, THERE'S
NO MUSCLE TO MAKE THEM?

Elizabeth says WELL, I THINK AT THE
PRESENT TIME THE MOVEMENT,
IT'S GOING FORWARD
MUCH MORE QUICKLY
THAN IT WAS BEFORE.
WE HAVE RUTH WILSON
AT THE HEAD OF THAT.
IT'S COMING.

Steve says I WANT TO ASK MAC, THE
DIFFICULT MAC PENNEY
ALWAYS HAS, AND
GOD BLESS HIM,
THAT WHEN THERE'S A
MINISTER OF THE CROWN
SITTING IN THIS CHAIR, HE
FINDS IT VERY DIFFICULT
TO SAY ANYTHING.
MINISTER, WHAT EXACTLY IS
THE NATURE OF YOUR GENIUS?
THAT IS THE KIND OF
QUESTION HE WANTS TO ASK.

Elizabeth says YOU KNOW WHAT, HE'S HAD
TOTAL CONTROL OF US
IN THE DEBATES.

Steve says HE'S BEEN A MARVELLOUS
DEBATE MODERATOR.
HAVING SAID THAT, SINCE
YOU'VE BEEN AT ALL THE
DEBATES, YOU'VE BEEN
MODERATING THEM,
I DO WANT TO ASK YOU,
FOUR OF THE CANDIDATES
HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY
BEATING THE CRAP OUT
OF ONE ANOTHER.
MISTER EVES HAS
NOT BEEN.
BUT THE OTHER FOUR HAVE
BEEN REALLY GOING TOE TO TOE.
AND I WONDER FROM
YOUR VANTAGE POINT,
AND THEN I'M GOING TO GET
ELIZABETH TO COMMENT ON
THIS, AS WELL, IS THIS
GOOD FOR YOUR PARTY?

The caption changes to “Mac Penney. Ontario PC Advisor.”

Mac says I GUESS THE PROOF OF THAT
WILL BE ON MARCH 24TH.
I THINK THAT THIS CAMPAIGN
HAS BEEN A LOT MORE
VIGOROUS THAN SOME HAD
ANTICIPATED IT WOULD BE.

Steve says THAT'S A
NICE WAY TO PUT IT.

Mac says YEAH, I THINK - AND
THERE'S A REAL HEALTHY
EXCHANGE GOING ON THERE.
AND MISS WITMER HAS
BEEN PART OF IT.
AND I THINK IT REFLECTS
THE DIFFERENT STRATEGIES
THE CAMPAIGN TEAMS HAVE
DEVELOPED IN TERMS OF THE
WAY THEY THINK THEY HAD TO
POSITION THEMSELVES
FOR A VOTE ON THE 23RD.
I THINK THE TRICK FOR THE
NEXT PREMIER IS GOING TO BE
- THERE IS DEFINITELY
GOING TO BE A BIT
OF A HEALING PROCESS
UNDERTAKEN,
AND I THINK THAT
WILL TAKE SOME TIME.

Ruth says YOU THINK THEY CAN
ALL SIT AROUND THE SAME
CABINET TABLE?

Mac says I THINK THEY WILL HAVE
TO MAKE THAT DECISION
INDIVIDUALLY AT THE
END OF THE PROCESS.

Steve says I WONDER HOW YOU
HAVE SAT AROUND
THE SAME CABINET TABLE.
IF THIS IS HOW
YOU ACT IN PUBLIC,
HOW DO YOU ACT
IN PRIVATE?

Elizabeth says WELL, DO YOU KNOW WHAT, I
FEEL VERY CONFIDENT AT THE
END OF THE DAY PEOPLE CAN
COME BACK TO THE TABLE.
THIS IS NOT A
PERSONAL ISSUE.
PEOPLE ARE DISCUSSING
DIFFERENCES
WHEN IT COMES
TO POLICY.
BUT I MEAN WE
STILL CONTINUE
TO RESPECT ONE
ANOTHER.
IT'S THE POLICY
THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT.

Steve says IT'S GOT
PRETTY PERSONAL
THOUGH, AT TIMES,
HASN'T IT?

Elizabeth says I STILL FEEL AT
THE END OF THE DAY
WE CAN COME
BACK TOGETHER.
WE'RE ALL ADULTS.

Ruth says WOULD YOU
EXERCISE LESS - SORRY.

Richard says DO YOU THINK MISTER
EVES COULD WIN
A PROVINCIAL ELECTION
IF HE BECOMES LEADER?

Elizabeth says I WILL TELL YOU, AS I
TRAVEL THE PROVINCE,
I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE
QUESTIONING THE ABILITY
TO WIN A THIRD
MAJORITY GOVERNMENT.
AND, YOU KNOW, IF
WE'RE GOING TO WIN,
WE NEED TO BROADEN THE
SPECTRUM OF SUPPORT
THAT WE PRESENTLY HAVE.

Richard says AND HE
WOULDN'T DO THAT?

Mac says I THINK ONE THING THAT
WOULD GIVE US ALL COMFORT IS,
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT
ERNIE EVES BEING DALTON
MCGUINTY'S WORST
NIGHTMARE,
BUT I'VE TALKED TO A LOT
OF LIBERALS WHO THINK
DALTON MCGUINTY IS THE
LIBERAL'S WORST NIGHTMARE.

Richard says OH, MAC, NICE TRY.
WHAT IS THE NATURE OF
YOUR GENIUS, MINISTER.

Ruth says CAN I GO IN ANOTHER
DIRECTION BECAUSE I'D BE
VERY INTERESTED IN KNOWING
WHETHER YOU WOULD BE AS
CENTRALIZING A PREMIER
AS MIKE HARRIS HAS BEEN?
OR HOW WOULD YOU SEE
YOURSELF OPERATING
DIFFERENTLY?

Elizabeth says I THINK EACH ONE OF US
WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT
STYLE OF LEADERSHIP.
I THINK MIKE'S DONE
A WONDERFUL JOB.
HE HAD AN AGENDA HE
NEEDED TO ADDRESS.
IT WAS THE FISCAL
AGENDA OF '95.
I THINK EACH ONE
OF US WOULD HAVE
A DIFFERENT STYLE.
MY STYLE IS ONE WHERE SINCE
I'VE BECOME INVOLVED
IN POLITICS IS I LISTEN,
I RESPECT VIEWS,
I TAKE DECISIVE ACTION,
BUT I CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW,
AM QUITE PREPARED TO ALLOW
PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH ME TO
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY
FOR THE DECISION
MAKING IN THEIR AREAS.

Ruth says IS THERE A SENSE
THE DEBATE NOW IN THE
LEADERSHIP IS BECAUSE
YOU'RE BEEN SO STIFLED
UNDER A CENTRALIST
GOVERNMENT THAT YOU HAVEN'T
HAD TIME TO MAKE
THE ISSUES CONCRETE.

Elizabeth says I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING
IS IN '95, WE HAD A PLAN,
THE CSR, WE'RE
NOW IN 2002,
AND IT'S A DIFFERENT
TIME IN THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO.
PEOPLE HAVE A
DIFFERENT AGENDA,
DIFFERENT ISSUES
NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.
HERE'S THE OPPORTUNITY FOR
EVERYBODY TO TAKE A LOOK
AT DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS.

Steve says IN OUR LAST MINUTE HERE,
I WANT TO ASK YOU
ONE THING, WHICH OF COURSE
YOU GET ASKED ALL THE TIME,
AND I HAVE TO ASK IT, BUT
I DID NOT WANT IT TO BE
THE CENTRAL FEATURE OF
OUR DISCUSSION TODAY,
WHICH IS WHY I'VE
LEFT IT TO THE END.
THE REALITY IS WE'VE NEVER
HAD A FEMALE PREMIER
IN THE HISTORY OF
THIS PROVINCE.
AND I WANT TO KNOW WHAT
YOU HEAR OUT THERE
WHEN THAT COMES UP?

Elizabeth says AND YOU KNOW WHAT I'VE
HEARD THE QUESTION.
AND AGAIN TODAY.
I MEAN THIS IS
THE SECOND TIME
I'VE BEEN ASKED
THE QUESTION.
AND I WOULD SAY TO YOU
I'VE BEEN INVOLVED
IN POLITICAL LIFE
SINCE 1980.
I HAVE NEVER EVER FOUND
IT A DISADVANTAGE
TO BE A WOMAN.
AND I BELIEVE PEOPLE IN
THIS PROVINCE ARE QUITE
PREPARED TO ELECT THE
BEST CANDIDATE
REGARDLESS OF GENDER.

Steve says DO YOU THINK YOU'RE
THE BEST CANDIDATE
REGARDLESS OF GENDER?

Elizabeth says I DO, OR I WOULDN'T
BE IN THIS RACE.

Steve says YOU'RE THE BEST
CANDIDATE FOR THE JOB.

Elizabeth says I CERTAINLY AM.
THAT'S WHY I'M IN
THE RACE TODAY.

Steve says CAN YOU
WIN ON THE 23RD?

Elizabeth says I BELIEVE THAT I CAN.

Steve says LOTS OF LUCK.
THANKS FOR VISITING
US HERE AT TVO.

Elizabeth says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MY PLEASURE.

Steve says THAT'S ELIZABETH
WITMER, PC CANDIDATE,
MINISTER OF THE
ENVIRONMENT,
MPP FOR KITCHENER-WATERLOO.
THANKS AGAIN, ELIZABETH.

Elizabeth says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Steve says COMING UP, THE TORIES KICK
START THEIR MUCH VAUNTED
SMART-GROWTH STRATEGY
IN CENTRAL ONTARIO.

A clip shows images of Mike Harris giving a press conference.

Mike says THIS IS TO GIVE
THE GOVERNMENT THE EXPERTISE
AND ADVICE, YES OF
MUNICIPAL POLITICIANS,
BUT ALSO UNION LEADERS,
BUSINESS PEOPLE,
ENVIRONMENTALISTS, TO COME
TOGETHER TO CHECK WHERE
THEY LIVE AT THE DOOR,
TO CHECK THEIR MUNICIPAL
RESPONSIBILITY
AT THE DOOR,
AND TRY TO LOOK AT AN
OVERALL REGIONAL GOOD.

The caption changes to “Hazel McCallion. Mayor of Missisauga.”

Hazel is in her eighties, with short wavy white hair. She wears glasses, a striped shirt, a red blazer, a brooch and a pin.

She says IT IS ESSENTIAL
THAT DECISIONS ON
TRANSPORTATION, LAND USE
AND PUBLIC INVESTMENT
BE COORDINATED.
THERE'S A LIMITED AMOUNT OF
MONEY TO BE SPENT TODAY
IN INFRASTRUCTURE AND
SOLVING THE PROBLEMS.
AND RIGHT NOW IT'S
ALL OVER THE MAP.
AND WHAT THIS SMART GROWTH
PANEL WILL DO IS BRING
TOGETHER A PLAN FOR
CENTRAL ONTARIO,
DETERMINE THE PRIORITIES
AND GIVE THE ADVICE
TO THE PROVINCE.

The caption changes to “Chris Hodgson. Minister of Municipal Affairs.”

Chris is in his forties, clean-shaven and with short wavy blond hair. HE wears a blue suit, blue shirt, patterned tie and a pin.

He says BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I THINK
IF YOU HAVE THESE THINGS
DONE MORE IN THE
OPEN, PEOPLE CAN HAVE
SUGGESTIONS THAT
ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE,
AND WILL MAKE THE PLANS
MORE PRACTICAL AND MORE
EFFICIENT, BUT ACTUALLY
HAVE BUY-IN THEN FROM
PEOPLE THAT CAN SAY YEAH,
I UNDERSTAND WHY THE ROAD
IS GOING HERE, WHY THE
RAIL TRANSIT IS GOING TO
GO THIS WAY, OR WHY WE
CAME TO THIS CONCLUSION.

Steve says UNLOCKING GRIDLOCK AND
FIGURING OUT WHAT TO DO
WITH TORONTO'S GARBAGE ARE
JUST TWO OF THE TASKS UP
FOR BRAINSTORMS BY THE
GOVERNMENT'S NEW SMART
GROWTH PANEL FOR
CENTRAL ONTARIO.
HEADED BY HAZEL McCALLION,
MISSISSAUGA'S OCTOGENARIAN
MAYOR, THE PANEL WILL ALSO
OFFER ADVICE ON HOW TO
PLAN OUR COMMUNITIES SO
THEY ARE ECONOMICALLY
VIABLE, ENVIRONMENTALLY
FRIENDLY,
AND EASIER TO GET AROUND.
AND MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS
MINISTER CHRIS HODGSON
SAYS FOUR OTHER SMART
GROWTH PANELS COVERING
THE REST OF ONTARIO
WILL BE ANNOUNCED
OVER THE NEXT
FEW WEEKS.
NOW, JUST BEFORE WE
START OUR DISCUSSION OF
THE PANEL HERE, OUR
FRIEND BROTHER MAHONEY
WANTS US ALL TO BE
AWARE OF THE FOLLOWING.
RICHARD WORKS FOR
BOREALIS CAPITAL,
WHICH IS PART OF A
CONSORTIUM PROPOSING
TO FINANCE, OPERATE AND
CONSTRUCT AN LRT TRANSIT
SYSTEM, LIGHT RAPID
TRANSIT, SYSTEM FOR
THE GREATER TORONTO AREA,
AND THEY WOULD LIKE IT
TO BE PART OF ANY SMART
GROWTH PLAN ADOPTED
BY THE PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT.
SO WE PUT THAT ON THE
TABLE FOR EVERYBODY'S
EDIFICATION AND
CONTINUE.

Richard says INTEREST
IS DECLARED.

Steve says INTERESTS ARE DECLARED.
THAT'S HOW WE
LIKE TO DO THINGS.

Ruth says THEN CAN WE ASK
RICHARD WHETHER HE REALLY
THINKS THIS SMART GROWTH
PANEL IS GOING TO DO
ANYTHING ABOUT PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION?

Richard says YOU WANT TO
START WITH THAT?
LET'S START WITH THAT.
I MUST SAY, SPEECH SPEAKING
AS RICHARD MAHONEY LIBERAL
ACTIVIST, RATHER THAN
SOMEONE WHO WORKS FOR
THE COMPANY, YOU KNOW,
WE'VE HAD A HISTORY
ON THESE THINGS.
THE GREATER TORONTO SERVICES
BOARD WAS SUPPOSED TO DO
THE SAME THING AS THIS
IS SUPPOSED TO DO.
IT WAS JUST DISBANDED.
IT WAS COMING ALONG.
NOW, WE HAVE
THIS PROPOSAL.
I THINK HAZEL
McCALLION IS A REALLY
INTERESTING PERSON.
I THINK SHE'S VERY,
VERY, CAPABLE.

Steve says GOOD CHOICE
FOR THE JOB?

Richard says WELL, I HOPE THE
PRINCIPLES OF MISSISSAUGA,
WHICH IS URBAN SPRAWL,
PERHAPS, AT IT'S -

Ruth says FINEST.

Richard says FINEST DESIGN, ARE NOT
THE SOLUTION THAT WE'RE
LOOKING FOR, OBVIOUSLY.
WE HAVE HUGE ISSUES IN
WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL
MATTERS, IN PUBLIC
TRANSIT, YES,
AND HIGHWAYS, THAT ARE
FACING US ACROSS
THE PROVINCE,
PARTICULARLY IN THE GTA.
AND IT'S GOING TO NEED SOME
SOLUTIONS WHICH ARE NOT
WHAT THIS GOVERNMENT HAS
BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST
SEVEN YEARS.

Steve says LET ME PUT THAT TO
MAC BECAUSE PEOPLE DID
RAISE THEIR EYEBROWS WHEN
HAZEL McCALLION WAS CHOSEN
AS THE HEAD OF THING
BECAUSE SHE IS THE MAYOR
OF ONE OF THE MOST
SPRAWLING SUBURBS IN CANADA,
AND REPRESENTS A
COMMUNITY WHICH MANY SAY
IS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE
OF SMART GROWTH.
IT'S DUMB GROWTH.
NOW, PEOPLE IN MISSISSAUGA
MAY GET MAD AT ME FOR
SAYING THAT, BUT THAT'S
WHAT THE CRITICS SAY.

Richard says MAC USED
TO LIVE THERE.
MAC USED TO LIVE THERE
SO HE CAN TELL US.

Mac says IT'S A VERY
WELL-PLANNED CITY.
IT MAY NOT MEET PEOPLE'S
AESTHETIC IDEA OF WHAT
A CITY SHOULD BE LIKE -

Ruth says HOW CAN IT
BE WELL-PLANNED
WHEN THERE'S NO
PUBLIC TRANSIT?

Mac says IT HAS A VERY GOOD
PUBLIC TRANSIT SYSTEM.
NOW, IT'S A CAR
DEPENDENT CITY,
BUT THERE IS
MISSISSAUGA TRANSIT.
AND I THINK THAT
RAISES THE ISSUE,
AND I THINK RICHARD MAY
HAVE BEEN GETTING TO IT,
WE HAVE TO GET TO A
POINT WHERE WE HAVE
REGIONAL SOLUTIONS TO
THESE PROBLEMS.
WE CAN'T HAVE 26 DIFFERENT
TRANSIT SOLUTIONS
IN A REGION LIKE THE GTA
OR CENTRAL ONTARIO.
I GUESS THE TEST FOR
THIS PROCESS WILL BE,
IS THIS THE MECHANISM OR
INSTITUTION WHERE THE
PROCESS, WHEREBY WE'LL GET
THOSE REGIONAL SOLUTIONS?
I MEAN FOR WATER, FOR
SEWER, FOR TRANSIT,
FOR ROADS, FOR GARBAGE -

Richard says THOSE THINGS DON'T FOLLOW
MUNICIPAL BOUNDARY LINES.

Mac says THEY DON'T.

Ruth says BUT THE BOUNDARIES OF
THIS HAVE BEEN EXTENDED
FROM PETERBOROUGH
TO KITCHENER.
SUPPOSEDLY IT
STARTED WITH THE GTA,
AND AS RICHARD SAID, THE
GREATER TORONTO SERVICES
BOARD WAS JUST AT THE CUSP
OF COMING TO GRIPS
WITH SOME OF THE
REGIONAL TRANSIT.
AND THEN IT WAS
DISBANDED.

Mac says THE CHALLENGE IS
GOING TO BE THE SAME.
IT'S GOING TO BE, DO
WE HAVE A GOVERNANCE
STRUCTURE, EVEN
IF MISS McCALLION,
AND IT'S GOING TO BE A
REAL CHALLENGE FOR HER,
I THINK, TO GET SOME
CONSENSUS WITHIN THIS GROUP
AS SO WHAT THOSE
SOLUTIONS ARE,
IS THERE GOING TO BE A
GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE
IN PLACE WHICH WILL ALLOW
THEM TO IMPLEMENT THOSE
IN A MEANINGFUL WAY?
WHETHER IT'S THE GTSB
UNDER OUR INCARNATION,
OR THE GREATER TORONTO
PLANNING COUNCIL,
WHATEVER WAS KICKING
AROUND BEFORE THAT.

Steve says I DON'T WANT
TO GET TOO HUNG UP
ON GOVERNANCE HERE.

Mac says I CERTAINLY DO.

Steve says I ACTUALLY WANT TO GET
TO SOME OF THE ISSUES.
RUTH, YOU TRIED WHEN YOU
WERE ENVIRONMENT MINISTER
TO SOLVE THE GARBAGE
ISSUE BECAUSE TORONTO
IS RUNNING OUT OF PLACES
TO PUT THEIR GARAGE.
AND YOU SAW WHAT A
POLITICAL FIRE CRACKER
THAT ISSUE COULD BE.
IS THIS REALLY GOING TO BE
THE BOARD THAT ADVISING
PROPERLY ON HOW TO RESOLVE
THE GARBAGE ISSUE?
OF COURSE NOT.

Ruth says BECAUSE THE MUNICIPALITIES
DIDN'T LIKE THE KINDS OF
SOLUTIONS I PROPOSED, I
BEGAN TO DO IT REGIONALLY
IN THE GTA.
THEY DIDN'T LIKE
THAT EITHER.
AND THIS GOVERNMENT
SAID BACK TO THE
MUNICIPALITIES.
TORONTO HAS NOW FOUND
SOLUTIONS TO ITS GARBAGE.

Steve says SHIPPING
IT TO MICHIGAN.

Ruth says BUT IT ALSO HAS AGGRESSIVE
RECYCLING POLICIES.
WATERLOO HAS BEEN DOING
WELL ON GARBAGE
FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
SO WHY IS THAT
BACK ON THE TABLE?
THE FOUNDATIONS
FOR SMART GROWTH
IS GOOD PLANNING.
AND HOWARD HAMPTON'S BRIGHTER
IDEA FOR ONTARIO'S CITY -

Steve says DID YOU WANT TO
HOLD THAT UP, RUTH?
DON'T THINK THE PUBLIC
IS AWARE ENOUGH.

Ruth says OKAY, IT OUGHT TO BE.
MY POINT IS URBAN PLANNING
DEPENDS ON SOME OVERALL
COMMITMENT TO INTEGRATING
THE PLANNING.
AND THIS ISN'T
ABOUT PLANNING,
IT'S ABOUT ONE-OFF
SOLUTIONS FOR SMALL PROBLEMS.

Steve says OKAY, LAST MINUTE.

Richard says I'LL TRY NOT TO BE
PARTISAN IN MY BEST WAY.
RUTH IS ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT HERE.
THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE
FACING GOVERNMENTS IN THIS
COUNTRY ARE WE NEED A
SOLUTION TO WHAT IS
THE URBAN AGENDA.
OUR CITIES ARE
OUR LIFEBLOOD,
AND ARE BEING
CHOKED BY GROWTH,
AND WE'RE NOT UP TO
DEALING WITH THEM.
I JUST AM A BIT
SKEPTICAL, I GUESS,
THAT THIS GOVERNMENT,
HAVING CREATED MUCH
OF THE PUBLIC TRANSIT
PROBLEM, FOR EXAMPLE,
THAT WE'RE NOW FACING,
CUT FUNDING IN '96,
IS NOW GOING TO DELIVER US
A SOLUTION VIA A PANEL OF
PEOPLE WHO AREN'T EVEN IN
POWER TO MAKE A DECISION?

Steve says IT IS, HOWEVER, A
CONSULTATIVE APPROACH WHICH
YOU AND MANY OTHERS
HAVE CRITICIZED
THIS GOVERNMENT
FOR NOT DOING.

Richard says FAIR ENOUGH.

Mac says ANOTHER THING, JUST
NOT TO BE PARTISAN -

Steve says TEN SECONDS, MAC.

Mac says NOT PARTISAN, I WOULD HOPE
THE 99 LIBERAL MPs BEING
HELD HOSTAGE IN OTTAWA
LISTEN TO RICHARD.

Steve says I THOUGHT
THERE WAS A HUNDRED.

Mac says IS IT A HUNDRED?

Steve says I THINK
THERE'S A HUNDRED.

Ruth says THE BEST
THING ABOUT THIS,
WE HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD ABOUT
THE MAKE UP OF THIS PANEL
WHICH IS QUITE BIZARRE,
WITH NO TORONTO
REPRESENTATION.

Steve says WELL,
THERE'S A FEW.
THERE'S A FEW.

Ruth says AND THE BEST THING ONE
CAN SAY ABOUT IT IS THAT
ITS POWERS ARE SO
LITTLE THAT IT PROBABLY
WON'T BE ABLE TO
DO MUCH DAMAGE.

Steve says THE BEST THING I
CAN SAY RIGHT NOW
IS WE'VE GOT TO GO.
RUTH, RICHARD, MAC,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION
THIS WEEK.
GOOD WEEKEND
TO ONE AND ALL.
AND THAT'S OUR
PROGRAM FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
THANKS FOR WATCHING.
SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY.
SO LONG.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Peter Harris.

Editor, Ted Ambrose.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2002, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Show #261