Transcript: Show #206 | Oct 08, 2000

(music plays)

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON 4th
READING, ROBERT F. KENNEDY Jr.

A clip shows Robert F. Kennedy Jr. talking in an interview with Steve.
He is in his mid-forties, clean-shaven with short dark brown hair. He wears a black suit, light blue shirt and red dotted tie.

He says THE GOVERNMENT HAS
SIMPLY STOPPED ENFORCING
ENVIRONMENTAL LAW.

Steve says A POLITICAL
POWERHOUSE SPEAKS OUT ON
ONTARIO'S ENVIRONMENTAL
PROBLEMS.

Now, a clip shows a garbage truck dropping garbage in a landfill.

(music plays)

Steve and three guests sit around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a dark gray coat over a gray shirt.

He says HI EVERYBODY, I'M STEVE
PAIKIN, WELCOMING YOU TO
THIS WEEKEND'S EDITION
OF
4th READING.
DESPITE FIVE AND A HALF
HOURS OF DEBATE, ALL FRIDAY
AFTERNOON, TORONTO CITY
COUNCIL HAS STILL NOT
RATIFIED ITS CONTROVERSIAL
BILLION DOLLAR GARBAGE PROPOSAL.
THE PLAN, AS YOU KNOW, WOULD
SEE THE MEGACITY SEND ITS
WASTE BY TRAIN UP TO ADAM'S
MINE NEAR KIRKLAND LAKE.
TORONTO'S MAYOR, MEL
LASTMAN, OFFERED UP AN
ELEVENTH-HOUR COMPROMISE TO MOVE
THE DEAL FORWARD, BUT THE CLOCK
RAN OUT BEFORE COUNCILLORS
COULD VOTE ON THE IDEA.
FRIDAY'S PROCEEDINGS WERE
PUNCTUATED BY HOSTILE
HECKLES FROM THE AUDIENCE.
LASTMAN SAID A QUIET COUNCIL
IS A DANGEROUS COUNCIL.
REST ASSURED THERE WAS NO
DANGER AT THAT CITY HALL.

Now, a man talks at City Hall.
He wears a checked blazer, white shirt and patterned tie.

A caption on screen reads "Mel Lastman, Toronto Mayor."

He says MAKE THE DECISION.
GET IT OVER WITH.
DON'T DRAG IT ON FOR ANOTHER
14 YEARS, OR ANOTHER TEN YEARS.
COUNCIL HAS SPOKEN, AND I
THINK WE SHOULD RESPECT
THE WILL OF THE COUNCIL.
THE CITY OF TORONTO AND
THE FORMER METRO HAVE BEEN
WORKING TO FIND A
SOLUTION SINCE 1986.

Now, a clip shows a woman speaking at the legislature. She's in her forties, with dark hair in a long bob. She wears a black blazer.

The caption changes to "Olivia Chow, City Councillor."

She says SHOULDN'T THESE FOLKS THAT
WHETHER IS OFFICIAL OR
UNOFFICIAL, ONE I BELIEVE IS
OFFICIAL, SHOULDN'T THESE
RESIDENTS AT LEAST HAVE
A CHANCE IN THE UPCOMING
ELECTION TO SAY TO THEIR
COUNCIL AND THEIR MAYOR
WHETHER THEY IN FACT
SUPPORT... THAT'S OFFICIAL.
IF WE DON'T BELIEVE IN THE
UNOFFICIAL FIGURES, THE
OFFICIAL ONES WOULD BE LET
THE ELECTION HAPPEN AND
THEN WE CAN
MAKE A DECISION.

Now, Mel Lastman appears on a clip again.

He says THREE DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTS
AT QUEEN'S PARK, THE
LIBERALS, THE NDP AND THE
CONSERVATIVES HAVE MADE IT
EVEN MORE DIFFICULT FOR US.
WASTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
AND CONSTANTLY CHANGING
THEIR MIND.

The clips end.

Back in studio, Steve says OKAY, WHAT'S GOING
TO HAPPEN NEXT.
LET'S CONTINUE THE DEBATE
WITH MARILYN CHURLEY, THE
MPP FROM TORONTO DANFORTH,
THE NDP'S ENVIRONMENT CRITIC.

Marilyn is in her mid-forties, with short brown hair. She wears a black jacket over a cream shirt.

Steve continues GEORGE SMITHERMAN, THE
LIBERAL MEMBER FOR TORONTO
CENTRE ROSEDALE,

George is in his forties, clean-shaven with receding brown hair. He wears a black turtleneck sweater.

Steve continues AND TINA
MOLINARI, CONSERVATIVE MPP
FOR THORNHILL, WHERE TORONTO
CURRENTLY TAKES ITS GARBAGE.

Tina is in her forties, with long brown hair. She wears a patterned blouse under a red jacket with a brooch.

Steve says MARILYN, YOU WERE THERE
FOR MOST OF IT TODAY.
ALMOST ALL OF IT TODAY.
WHY CAN'T THIS COUNCIL YET
MAKE A DECISION ON THIS?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Marilyn Churley, Ontario NDP Environment critic."

Marilyn says WELL, IT WAS A FASCINATING
AFTERNOON, THIS DEBATE.
FIRST OF ALL, THE MAYOR, IT
BECAME ABUNDANTLY CLEAR,
DOESN'T REALLY KNOW
WHAT'S IN THE CONTRACT,
AND DOESN'T REALLY KNOW MUCH
ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVES.
AND WHEN QUESTIONED,
THAT WAS CLEAR, AND THAT
FRIGHTENED ME A LITTLE BIT.
BECAUSE HE'S THE ONE PUSHING
THIS ON, AND WHO HAS GOT
THE VOTES LINED UP
AT CITY COUNCIL.
THE SECOND THING IS HE DID
MAKE SOME MOTIONS WHICH WERE
NOT VOTED ON YET, AND I DON'T
KNOW IF THEY'LL BE ACCEPTED.

Steve says COMPROMISES.

Marilyn says COMPROMISES.

Steve says ATTEMPTED
COMPROMISES.

Marilyn continues LIKE TAKING
INCINERATION OFF AND
TABLING IT,
WHICH KILLS IT.
LIKE WHY THAT WAS PUT THERE
IN THE FIRST PLACE OUT OF
THE BLUE WE DON'T KNOW.
AND THE SECOND ONE WAS
THAT REALLY CONTENTIOUS
LIABILITY ONE THAT JACK
LAYTON RAISED YESTERDAY.

Steve says OK, MORE ON THAT IN A BIT.
GEORGE, A MONTH AGO
THIS WAS A SLAM DUNK.
IT'S NOT ANYMORE.
WHAT'S CHANGED?

The caption changes to "George Smitherman, MPP. Liberal, Rosedale."

George says I THINK A NUMBER OF
THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
I THINK AS YOU GET CLOSER TO
A DECISION, OBVIOUSLY QUITE
OFTEN YOU GET A MORE INTENSE
GROUP OF PEOPLE LOOKING AT
WHAT THE IMPACT OF
THE DECISION IS.
I THINK WE'VE SEEN
NEW INFORMATION.
AND I THINK WE'VE SEEN NEW
PLAYERS ON THE SCENE WHO
HAVE BEEN PLAYING A MORE
EXERCISED ROLE AS OF LATE
IN TRYING TO FOCUS
MORE ATTENTION.
OUR CAUCUS, AS ONE, HAS
BEEN VERY, VERY ACTIVE.
IT'S BEEN A SIGNIFICANT
ISSUE IN THE LEGISLATURE
SINCE IT RESUMED.
BOTH PARTIES, IN FACT,
TAKING THE GOVERNMENT TO
TASK ON IT.
AND THE FEDERAL LIBERAL
CAUCUS FROM THE GREATER
TORONTO AREA HAS ALSO
BEEN MORE ACTIVE.
BUT I THINK THE CAMPAIGN HAS
TAKEN ON A LIFE OF ITS OWN.
IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE THE
LOCAL RESIDENTS WHO HAVE,
I THINK, BECOME TIRED AS
BEING SEEN AS A WILLING
COMMUNITY, A WILLING HOST,
HAVE, I SHOULDN'T SAY
THEY'VE TAKEN UP ARMS, BUT
THEY'RE UP IN ARMS, AND
THEY'VE DECIDED THEY'RE
GOING TO TAKE EXTRAORDINARY
ACTION TO TRY AND
PROTECT THEIR COMMUNITY.

Steve says CLOSE TO IT.
I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE
WITH CHARLIE ANGUS WHO
LIVES UP AROUND THE AREA,
AND THERE ARE 60-70 PEOPLE
OUT THERE ON THE TRACKS.
THEY'VE SET UP A LITTLE
TENT CITY RIGHT NOW.
THEY'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
THE POLICE HAVE COME BY TO
TRY AND GET RID OF THEM.

Marilyn says HOWARD HAMPTON,
THE NDP LEADER, IS UP THERE
TODAY AS WELL.
I HEARD THAT THEY'RE ASKING
FOR AN INJUNCTION NOW TO
HAVE THEM MOVED.

Steve says ABSOLUTELY, POLICE CAME BY.
I KNOW THAT, TOO.
TINA, ONE OF THE THINGS
PEOPLE ARE SAYING IS THEY
WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE THIS
CONVERSATION IF THE PEOPLE
IN YORK REGION, PEOPLE YOU
REPRESENT, JUST AGREED TO
LET KEELE VALLEY, WHERE
TORONTO TAKES ITS GARBAGE
NOW, STAY OPEN FOR ANOTHER
FOUR YEARS, OR FIVE YEARS,
OR SIX YEARS, WHICH IT
HAS THE CAPACITY TO DO.
WHAT'S WRONG
WITH THAT IDEA?

The caption changes to "Tina Molinari, MPP. PC, Thornhill."

Tina says KEELE VALLEY HAS
HAD ITS LIFE SPAN.
I THINK THE PEOPLE IN MAPLE
HAVE HOSTED THE GARBAGE
AND THE DUMP LONG ENOUGH.
THERE WAS A COMMITMENT TO
CLOSE IT BY 2002, AND THAT
COMMITMENT IS BEING HELD.
WE BELIEVE CERTAINLY THE
ENVIRONMENT IS AN IMPORTANT
ASPECT, AND AS A GOVERNMENT
WE TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY
TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT
THE ENVIRONMENT.
AND WITH THE ADAM'S MINE,
A FULL ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENT HAS BEEN DONE.
IT'S GONE THROUGH AN
ASSESSMENT BOARD REVIEW
THAT'S GONE THROUGH
SEVERAL HEARINGS.

Steve says SO YOU THINK
COUNCIL SHOULD ENDORSE IT
AND GET IT OVER WITH.

Tina says COUNCIL HAS THE OPPORTUNITY
TO ENDORSE IT AND MOVE ON
WITH IT.
WE BELIEVE THE LOCAL
AUTONOMY IS IN PLACE, AND
THE MUNICIPAL COUNCIL HAS
THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR
THEIR OWN WASTE MANAGEMENT.

George says JUST ON THE ISSUE OF KEELE
VALLEY, I'M VERY SYMPATHETIC
TO THAT COMMUNITY AND THE
CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH
HAVING A SIGNIFICANT
LANDFILL SITE IN CLOSE
PROXIMITY TO AN URBAN AREA.
BUT INTERESTINGLY TODAY, AND
YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW THIS, ON
THE FLOOR OF COUNCIL, THE
MAYOR SAID HE HAD SPOKEN,
AND HAD A COMMITMENT FROM
AL PALLADINI, I ASSUME THAT
HAPPENED TODAY, TO EXTEND
THE KEELE VALLEY DATE, IF
IT WAS NECESSARY TO ALLOW THE
ADAM'S SITE TO COME ONLINE.
IF THERE WAS A
GAP IN SERVICE.
WHAT THAT SPEAKS TO, I
THINK, FIRSTLY, IS THE
EXTENT TO WHICH THERE IS
POLITICAL GAMESMANSHIP
BEING PLAYED BY THE HARRIS
GOVERNMENT ON THIS ISSUE,
AND ALSO THAT THERE IS SOME
ADDITIONAL CAPACITY THERE.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT
LANDFILL SITE CANNOT BE
OPERATING INDEFINITELY.
BUT THERE IS SOME CAPACITY
THERE TO BE DEALT WITH.
AND I THINK THE KEY POINT
HERE IS THAT THE HARRIS
GOVERNMENT HAS PRECIPITATED
A CRISIS WHICH IS FORCING
TORONTO CITY COUNCIL...

Steve says HOW DID THEY
PRECIPITATE A CRISIS?

George continues WELL, BECAUSE, BY AS AN
EXAMPLE, SAYING THERE'S NO
POSSIBLE EXTENSION ON KEELE
VALLEY, THEY HAVE SHORTENED
THE TIME LINES ON THIS, ALL
TO PUSH THE TORONTO CITY
COUNCIL TOWARDS AN ADAM'S
DECISION, WHICH THE
PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT OF
MIKE HARRIS IS HEAVILY
INVESTED IN.

Marilyn says I WAS ASTOUNDED BY THE
MAYOR'S ADMISSION ON THE
FLOOR OF COUNCIL SAYING,
YEAH, HE MADE A DEAL WITH
AL PALLADINI, IF HE GETS
THIS THING THROUGH,
THEY'LL AGREE TO
EXTENDING KEELE VALLEY.

Steve says IF NECESSARY.

Tina says I THINK THAT'S
UNFAIR TO PRESENT THAT
AL PALLADINI AND THE
MAYOR MADE AN AGREEMENT.
I WOULD HAVE DOUBTS.

Steve says CAN WE JUST
CHECK THIS?
HAVE YOU TALKED TO AL
PALLADINI ABOUT THIS?

Tina says I HAVE NOT.
BUT I KNOW THAT AL PALLADINI
IS VERY COMMITTED TO THE
CLOSURE OF THAT
DUMP FOR 2002.
AL PALLADINI AND I
PARTICIPATED...

(Marilyn speaks at the same time as Tina.)

Tina says EXCUSE ME, MAY I?

Steve says OKAY, GO AHEAD.

Tina continues AL PALLADINI AND I
PARTICIPATED IN A RALLY
THAT WAS PROPOSING THE
CLOSURE OF THE DUMP.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
CONSTITUENTS IN THAT AREA
WHO HAVE MADE IT VERY
CLEAR THAT THEY WILL NOT
SUPPORT ANY EXTENSION
OF THAT DUMP.
THEY'VE HAD THE DUMP
THERE LONG ENOUGH.
THERE WAS A COMMITMENT
TO CLOSE IT.
THEY LIVED WITH IT, AND
NOW IT'S TIME TO MOVE ON.

Steve says BUT DO YOU THINK IT'S
A REASONABLE COMPROMISE TO
ALLOW THE DUMP TO STAY
OPEN A LITTLE LONGER IF
NECESSARY, IF ULTIMATELY
ADAM'S MINE GETS THE APPROVAL?

Tina says THERE IS NO REASON FOR
THAT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THE
ADAM'S MINE AND THE
ASSESSMENT BOARD HAS DONE
THEIR REVIEW.
IF WE BELIEVE... AS A
GOVERNMENT, WE BELIEVE THE
EXPERTS SHOULD BE THE ONES
TO MAKE THE DECISION OF
WHETHER OR NOT A DUMP OR AN
AREA IS SAFE FOR GARBAGE OR NOT.
AND ALL THE ASSESSMENTS THAT
HAVE COME THROUGH WITH THE
ENVIRONMENTAL HAVE
SHOWN THERE IS NO...

Marilyn says STEVE...

Tina says MARILYN.

Marilyn says THE ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENT WAS RIGGED.
THE SAME GUY, THE SAME
LAWYER WHO WAS ADVISING
THE PROPONENT, GORDON
MCGUINTY, ON ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENTS FOR HIS
LANDFILL, WAS ALSO ADVISING
MIKE HARRIS ON THE CHANGES.
THEY GUTTED THE
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT
ACT AT THE SAME TIME.

Tina says I TAKE REAL ISSUE TO
BEING RIGGED BECAUSE EVERY
TIME THE OPPOSITION OR NDP
ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE
DECISION, OR EVERY TIME
THERE IS SOMETHING THAT
DOESN'T AGREE WITH WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING, IT'S RIGGED.

Marilyn says THAT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS,
ISN'T IT, TINA?

Tina says THAT'S AN ACCUSATION.

Marilyn says THAT'S ON THE RECORD.

[all talking at once]

Steve says GEORGE.

George says FIRSTLY, TINA, I
WAS SURPRISED, TOO.
SO WE HAVE TO TAKE MEL
LASTMAN AT HIS WORD UNTIL
WE HEAR OTHERWISE.
HE TALKED ON THE FLOOR OF
COUNCIL, NOT TWO HOURS AGO,
ABOUT THE CONVERSATION
HE HAD WITH PALLADINI.
I THINK IT DOES MAKE
THE POINT THERE IS SOME
CAPACITY THERE WHICH DOES
OFFER TIMELINES TO TAKE A
CLOSER LOOK AT THIS.

Tina says THIS HAS BEEN GOING
ON FOR TEN YEARS.

George says I'M VERY FAMILIAR
WITH IT.
JUST ON THIS ISSUE OF E.A.s
WHICH YOU SAID WERE FULL,
ONE OF THE THINGS ONTARIANS
WOULD BE INTERESTED TO
KNOW, AND LOCAL RESIDENTS
UP THERE, IS THE PROCESS
THAT WENT ON TOOK 15 DAYS
TO EXAMINE, COMPARED TO 100
TO 180 DAYS WHICH HAS BEEN
MORE TYPICAL IN THESE CASES.
DOESN'T SOUND SO FULL TO ME
FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NEW.

Steve says HOW MUCH OF THIS IS ABOUT
THE OPTICS OF TORONTO
POLITICIANS, WHO AFTER ALL
ARE VERY INTERESTED IN
GETTING THE OLYMPIC GAMES,
THE OPTICS OF SENDING THEIR
GARBAGE UP NORTH, TO
NORTHERNERS IN PARTICULAR,
WHO FEEL THEY TAKE ENOUGH
CRAP FROM THE SOUTH, RIGHT?
HOW MUCH OF THAT IS PLAYING
INTO THE DECISION RIGHT NOW?

Marilyn says OH, I THINK A LARGE AMOUNT.
IT'S A BIG PART OF IT.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET
GARBAGE, THE FEDERAL
LIBERALS WOULD LIKE TO GET
IT OUT OF THE WAY BEFORE
THE ELECTION, THE TORIES,
IT'S A TERRIBLE ISSUE TO
DEAL WITH.
I KNOW, WE'VE BEEN THERE.
IT'S REALLY HARD.

Steve says YOUR GOVERNMENT SPENT
90 MILLION DOLLARS TRYING TO SOLVE
THIS AND COULDN'T.

Tina says WASTE AUTHORITY, AND
DIDN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

Steve says THEY COULDN'T.

Marilyn says IT WAS A TOUGH TROUBLE.
IT'S A VERY TOUGH PROBLEM,
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, JACK LAYTON
SUGGESTED AN INTERESTING
COMPROMISE TODAY.
THE MAYOR SAID,
I'LL LOOK AT IT.
I'M OPEN TO ANYTHING
AT THIS POINT.
THE MAYOR IS
GETTING NERVOUS.
HE'S GETTING
PUBLIC PRESSURE.
WHAT JACK SUGGESTED, YOU
KNOW IN THE CONTRACT THAT
THE PROPONENT FOR THE
ADAM'S MINE HAD TO HAVE TWO
CONTINGENCY BACK-UP SITES.
WHAT JACK SAID IS WHY DON'T
WE FLIP THIS AROUND AND
HAVE THESE OTHER SITES,
AND IT'S NOT KEELE VALLEY.

Steve says YEAH, THE IDEA WAS
MAKE MICHIGAN THE PRIME
SITE, AND ADAM'S
MINE BE THE BACK-UP.

Marilyn continues AND ALSO THE OTHER THING HE
SAID WHICH PUTS IT SQUARELY
ON THE FEDERAL LIBERALS
IS MEL LASTMAN SAID IF IT
PASSES, THAT IF THEY AGREE
TO DO A FEDERAL E.A. BY
FEBRUARY 15th, THE
DEAL IS OFF RIGHT NOW.

George says BUT THAT'S JUST
POLITICAL POSTURING.
I THINK THE POINT ON THIS
ISSUE OF TORONTONIANS,
I THINK THE THING I'M MOST
SENSITIVE TO, AND I LIVE IN
DOWNTOWN TORONTO, MY RIDING
IS A REALLY CHALLENGING
PLACE TO DO A
LOT OF DIVERSION.
I LIVE ON THE 18th STOREY
OF AN APARTMENT BUILDING,
TOUGH TO COMPOST
IN AN APARTMENT.
BUT I THINK THE THING THAT
MAKES ME SADDEST AS A
TORONTONIAN IS THAT ALL
OF THAT EFFORT THAT WE
SUPPORTED WITH THE INITIAL
WORK ON THE BLUE BOX
PROGRAM WITH THE UNITED
NATIONS RECOGNITION, AND
THE WORK THAT MY COLLEAGUE
JIM BRADLEY DID WHEN HE WAS
ENVIRONMENT MINISTER, AND
OTHER GOVERNMENTS HAVE
SUPPORTED, THAT WE HAVE
STOPPED TRYING TO DO THE
BEST THAT WE CAN...

Steve says MY QUESTION IS, I
KNOW WHAT TINA'S CONSTITUENTS
THINK ABOUT THIS, BUT WHAT
DO YOUR CONSTITUENTS THINK?
I BET THEY'RE WORRIED SOME
DAY THEY'RE GOING TO PUT
THEIR GARBAGE OUT BY THE
CURB AND THERE'S GOING TO
BE NOWHERE TO TAKE IT.

George says WELL, I MAKE THE POINT AGAIN
THAT NOT THAT MANY OF MY
CONSTITUENTS ARE PUTTING
THEIR GARBAGE OUT BY THE CURB.
70 PERCENT OF THEM ARE
TENANTS AND A WHOLE BUNCH
MORE OWN AND LIVE
IN CONDOMINIUMS.
I'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF
PEOPLE ABOUT THIS AND...

Tina says THEY DON'T
PRODUCE GARBAGE?

George says YES, OF
COURSE THEY DO.
I'M SITTING HERE AS A
TORONTONIAN SAYING THAT I'M
DISAPPOINTED BY THE EFFORTS
WE'VE MADE, NOT JUST IN
TORONTO, THE LACK OF EFFORT
THAT WE'VE MADE IN PLACES
ALL AROUND THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
AND THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO,
THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO,
MIKE HARRIS, HAVEN'T PLAYED,
I THINK THE LEADERSHIP ROLE
THE PETERSON GOVERNMENT
DEMONSTRATED AROUND DIVERTING.

Tina says WHAT IS THE
LIBERAL SOLUTION?

George says WELL, THE LIBERAL SOLUTION
AS A STARTING POINT IS
HAVING A PARTNERSHIP WITH
THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
PLAYS A LEADERSHIP ROLE IN
HELPING TO DIVERT GARBAGE SO
WE HAVE LESS TO GET RID OF.

Marilyn says LIKE EDMONTON
AND HALIFAX.

George says EDMONTON, THERE ARE GREAT
EXAMPLES IN ONTARIO, TOO,
WHERE THE MUNICIPALITIES
HAVE PAID MORE.
MY FORMER SEAT MATE, STEVE
PETERS FROM St. THOMAS WHERE
THEY'VE DONE A REALLY
GOOD JOB OF THAT.
WE HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED TO LIVE
UP TO THE FULL POTENTIAL.
THAT'S THE FIRST PIECE.
AT LEAST GET US DOWN, TINA,
PLEASE, TO THE POINT WHERE
THERE'S LESS GARBAGE
TO BE DEALING WITH.
NO ONE'S EVEN
TRYING THAT.
WE'VE GOT THIS DISPOSABLE
SOCIETY THAT'S BEEN IN PART
CREATED, I THINK, BY THE
NOTION OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT'S
BEEN IN SUPPORT OF.

Tina says I WANT TO ADDRESS
THE DIVERSION.
WE'VE RECEIVED A REPORT
FROM THE WASTE DIVERSION
ORGANIZATION WHICH OFFERS A
NUMBER OF RECOMMENDATIONS
THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
ACTUALLY, WE'RE EXCITED WITH
SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS...

George says YOU'VE BEEN
IN POWER FOR SIX YEARS.

Tina says YOU WERE IN
POWER FOR FIVE.

George says I
REALIZE THAT.

Tina says WHAT DID YOU DO?
THE INTERIM WASTE AUTHORITY
WASTED 90 MILLION DOLLARS AND
DIDN'T COME UP
WITH A SOLUTION.
THE LIBERALS FLIP-FLOPPED
BACK AND FORTH AND DIDN'T
COME UP WITH A SOLUTION.
OUR SOLUTION IS TO LET LOCAL
MUNICIPALITIES TO COME UP
WITH THE SOLUTION.

Steve says SHE HAS SAID HER SOLUTION
IS TO ALLOW LOCAL
MUNICIPALITIES TO MAKE
UP THEIR OWN MIND.
THEY'RE HAVING A TOUGH
TIME DOING THAT RIGHT NOW.

Marilyn says THEY CAN'T DO IT,
WHICH IS WHY THE NDP…

(Tina and Marilyn speak at the same time)

Marilyn says IT FAILED, BUT MUNICIPALITIES
COULDN'T HANDLE IT.
WE SAID WE WERE
GOING TO TAKE IT ON.
IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.

Tina says SO YOU DIDN'T SOLVE
THE SOLUTION EITHER.

Marilyn says WELL, WE WERE
GETTING THERE, AND YOUR
GOVERNMENT CAME IN AND
CANCELLED ALL THOSE PROGRAMS.

Tina says THE INTERIM
WASTE AUTHORITY?
THE 90 MILLION DOLLAR THAT
DIDN'T DO ANYTHING?
OF COURSE WE
CANCELLED IT.
IT WAS USELESS.

Marilyn says WHAT'S IMPORTANT HERE
IS IT'S NOT JUST THE
ENVIRONMENTAL IMPLICATIONS
OF KIRKLAND LAKE.
I CUT MY POLITICAL TEETH ON
WASTE MANAGEMENT FIGHTING
GARBAGE INCINERATION
IN SOUTH RIVERDALE.
I WAS PART OF THE
FOUNDING OF THE BLUE BOX.
AND THIS IS A REPEAT
OF THAT WHOLE ARGUMENT.
AND WHAT WE SAID THEN IS
WHAT WE'RE SAYING NOW.
IF YOU INCINERATE IT, IF YOU
SEND IT UP NORTH AND DUMP
IT IN A LAKE IT'S OUT OF
SIGHT, OUT OF MIND, AND
GOVERNMENTS AREN'T FORCED
TO BE PROGRESSIVE.

Steve says BUT YOU HEARD THE DATE
TODAY AT CITY COUNCIL.
THEY'RE NOT TALKING
ABOUT REDUCTION.
WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT
MOSTLY IS IF WE DON'T PICK
ADAM'S MINE, WE'RE GOING
TO SHIP TO MICHIGAN.
THOSE SEEM TO BE THE
TWO ALTERNATIVES.

Tina says DO YOU KNOW TO SHIP THE
GARBAGE TO MICHIGAN IT'S
75,000 TRUCKS A
YEAR ON THE ROAD?
AND WHAT ABOUT THE
ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEM?

Marilyn says I WAS GOING TO SAY,
THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT.
THAT'S GOING TO
BE A PROBLEM, TOO.

Steve says THAT'S A LOUSY
ALTERNATIVE.

Tina says AND WHERE ARE YOU GOING
TO PUT IT INTO THE 401?

Marilyn says ONCE YOU TAKE THE COMPOST... WHAT
DO YOU CALL IT, THE
VEGETABLES AND THINGS OUT,
ORGANICS, THAT'S THE WORD,
OUT, THAT'S WHAT CAUSES A
HUGE AMOUNT OF THE GARBAGE,
CAUSES THE LEACHATE WHICH
CAUSES THE POLLUTION.
THESE THINGS ARE
BEING DONE.
AND UNLESS COMMUNITIES ARE
UP IN ARMS IN YOUR OWN
COMMUNITY SAYING WE DON'T
WANT IT, WE DON'T WANT
TRUCKS GOING THROUGH OUR
COMMUNITIES WITH THE
GARBAGE, AS WELL, THEN
NOTHING WILL CHANGE.
WE'VE GONE BACKWARDS.

Steve says CAN I JUST
UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS
AT THIS STAGE RIGHT NOW?
THIS COUNCIL IS OUT OF
BUSINESS IN A MONTH.
THERE ARE MUNICIPAL
ELECTIONS HAPPENING IN NOVEMBER.
IS THERE A CLOCK THAT'S
RUNNING AFTER WHICH THEY
CAN'T MAKE THIS BIG
A DECISION AGAIN?
OR THEY CAN MAKE A DECISION
RIGHT UP TO AND INCLUDING
ELECTION DAY?

George says IT'S A FALSE CLOCK.

Steve says IT'S A FALSE CLOCK?

George says THE MAYOR HAS THE AUTHORITY
TO CONTINUE TO CALL SPECIAL
MEETINGS AS HE DID TODAY.
IT'S A FALSE CLOCK, AND THIS
IS ONE OF MY KEY POINTS OR
ASSERTIONS WOULD BE THAT
THE HARRIS GOVERNMENT HAS
HELPED PUT THE CLOCK
ON FAST FORWARD.

Steve says ALL RIGHT, SECOND
QUESTION ABOUT THIS.
IS THERE NOT SOME LOGIC
TO THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS
COUNCIL SHOULDN'T BE MAKING
THIS DECISION BECAUSE A
NUMBER OF MEMBERS ON THIS
COUNCIL ARE NOT UP FOR
REELECTION AND IN THAT
SENSE, ARE NOT NECESSARILY
AS RESPONSIVE TO THEIR
CONSTITUENTS BECAUSE OF IT.
LET THE NEW GUYS COME IN,
HAVING FOUGHT AN ELECTION ON
IT, AND LET THEM
MAKE THE DECISION.

Marilyn says IT'S THE SAME IN
THE NORTH AS WELL.
THERE'S A WHOLE SLATE OF
COUNCILLORS RUNNING TO
DEFEAT THE COUNCILLORS
WHO VOTED FOR THIS.
SO EVERYTHING COULD CHANGE.

George says I THINK THE WILLING HOST
PIECE IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
WE'VE BEEN BANKING A LOT ON
SOME VOTES THAT TOOK PLACE
A LONG, LONG TIME AGO.
THIS MUNICIPAL ELECTION IS
GOING TO TELL US WHETHER
THOSE COMMUNITIES
ARE WILLING HOSTS.

Marilyn says IT'S LIKE A
REFERENDUM, ISN'T IT,
THIS ELECTION?

George says I THINK THAT'S WHAT
THEY'RE AFRAID OF, STEVE.
I TALKED TO A LOT OF CITY
COUNCILLORS TODAY WHO ARE UP
FOR ELECTION, OUT KNOCKING
ON DOORS, AND WHO ARE VERY
MUCH TORN ON THIS ISSUE.
AND I THINK IF WE LOOK AT
THE NUMBER OF COUNCILLORS
THAT ARE LEAVING, THAT'S
GOING TO BE A VERY
DIFFERENT PLACE
IN A LITTLE WHILE.
I'M MORE CERTAIN THAT THE
COUNCILLORS THAT ARE GOING
TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS
ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE HAD
TO GO OUT AND SELL THEM
TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.
NOT THOSE THAT ARE MAKING A
DECISION AND RUNNING OFF.
AND I HOPE NOT TO BE
EMPLOYED BY THIS COMPANY.

Steve says I WANT ALL OF YOU TO
READ THE TEA LEAVES.
WE'VE GOT ABOUT A HALF
A MINUTE LEFT HERE.
IS THIS GOING TO PASS?
WHAT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN NEXT WEEK?

Tina says WELL, IT ALL DEPENDS
ON THE COURAGE THE
PRESENT COUNCIL HAS.
BECAUSE I THINK TO POSTPONE
IT IS DOING A COP OUT, AND
FOR THOSE WHO ARE AFRAID
OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE
GOING TO GET RE-ELECTED, I
THINK THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT
WHAT'S THERE AND MAKE
THE BEST DECISION.

Steve says GEORGE, IS
IT GOING TO PASS?

George says I DON'T KNOW.
I KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO BE
DOING OVER THE COURSE OF
THE WEEKEND IS SPENDING AS
MUCH TIME AS I CAN TALKING
TO COUNCILLORS OF THE
LIBERAL PERSUASION THAT ARE
ON TORONTO CITY COUNCIL,
AND LETTING THEM KNOW FROM
THE STANDPOINT OF OUR PARTY
PROVINCIALLY AND FEDERALLY,
WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS.

Steve says MARILYN?

Marilyn says I'M AFRAID IT'S
GOING TO PASS.
LASTMAN WANTS IT TO PASS,
THE HARRIS GOVERNMENT WANTS
IT TO PASS.
THE VOTES ARE LINED UP.
IT MIGHT BE CHANGED
A LITTLE BIT.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU ALL HELL
IS GOING TO BREAK LOOSE
WHEN IT DOES, IF IT DOES.
THE GARBAGE WON'T GO THERE.
THERE ARE SERIOUS
OPPOSITION TO THIS.
THOSE PEOPLE ON THE TRACKS
NOW, THEY'LL BE OUT,
I'LL BE OUT THERE.
IT WILL NOT GO.
THIS IS A SERIOUS MISTAKE
IF THEY DO PASS IT.

Steve says MARILYN CHURLEY, GEORGE
SMITHERMAN, TINA MOLINARI.
THANKS FOR COMING IN TONIGHT
AND CONTINUING THE DEBATE.
WELL, WE ARE NOT DONE
FOCUSSING ON THE ENVIRONMENT
JUST YET.
ONE OF THE WORLD'S BEST
KNOWN ENVIRONMENTAL
ACTIVISTS FROM ONE OF THE
WORLD'S BEST KNOWN FAMILIES
WAS IN TORONTO LAST NIGHT,
AND HE HAD PLENTY TO SAY
ABOUT THE ADAM'S MINE
SITUATION, THE WALKERTON
WATER TRAGEDY, AND
OTHER IMPORTANT ISSUES.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY Jr.
WAS THE KEYNOTE SPEAKER
AT AN ONTARIO LIBERAL
PARTY FUNDRAISER.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK
AFTER HIS ADDRESS.

Now, a clip shows Steve and Robert siting one on front of the other.

Steve says WE ARE, AS YOU KNOW, COMING
OFF THE WORST ENVIRONMENTAL
DISASTER IN THE HISTORY OF
THIS PROVINCE WITH PEOPLE
DYING HAVING
TASTED BAD WATER.
AND I WANT YOU, IF YOU
WOULD, TO GIVE US SOME
ADVICE, BASED ON YOUR
EXPERIENCE, ON WHAT WE
MIGHT DO TO MAKE SURE THAT
THAT KIND OF THING DOESN'T
HAPPEN AGAIN.
WHAT WOULD
YOU TELL US?

A caption on screen reads "Robert F. Kennedy Jr., environmental activist."

Robert says WELL, THERE ARE CERTAIN
APPROPRIATE SAFEGUARDS.
FIRST, I THINK IT'S SAD,
BUT IT'S TRUE, THAT WITH
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION
ALMOST NEVER OCCURS EXCEPT
IN THE WAKE OF A TRAGEDY.
AND HERE IT'S TAKEN THE
DEATHS OF SIX PEOPLE TO
FOCUS THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO
ON THE NOTION, ON THE
REALITY THAT GOVERNMENT HAS
SIMPLY STOPPED ENFORCING
ENVIRONMENTAL LAW.
GOVERNMENT HAS STOPPED
PROTECTING THE PUBLIC TRUST.
WHAT SHOULD
GOVERNMENT DO NOW?
THEY SHOULD, THE PRINCIPAL
REASON THAT THIS OCCURRED
WAS BECAUSE OF CONCENTRATED
ANIMAL FEED OPERATIONS
WHICH PRODUCE HUGE AMOUNTS
OF WASTE THAT CANNOT BE
ABSORBED OR ASSIMILATED
INTO THE FIELDS.
IN THE UNITED STATES, WE'RE
NOW PUTTING ALL OF THOSE
PEOPLE OUT OF BUSINESS.
WE SHOULD PROSECUTE AND
STOP THE FACTORY FARMING.
IT REALLY IS AN
ASSAULT ON COMMUNITY.
IT'S DESTROYING
FAMILY FARMERS.
IT'S NOT ECONOMICALLY
SUSTAINABLE.
AND IT ONLY FUNCTIONS
BECAUSE OF ITS ABILITY TO
FORCE THE PUBLIC TO DEAL
WITH WASTE THAT IT SHOULD
BE DEALING WITH.
IN THIS CASE, IT'S CAUSED
THE DEATH OF SIX PEOPLE.
ONTARIO IS NOW NOTORIOUS
ACROSS NORTH AMERICA
FOR HAVING SIMPLY
ABANDONED ITS OBLIGATION
TO ENFORCE ITS OWN
ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS.
THE ENFORCEMENT BUDGET HAS
BEEN CUT IN THIS PROVINCE
BY 50 PERCENT.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL MINISTRY'S
BUDGET HAS BEEN CUT BY
50 PERCENT.
THE PERSONNEL HAS BEEN
CUT BY ALMOST 50 PERCENT.

Steve says THEIR ARGUMENT HAS
BEEN PRIVATE SECTOR CAN DO
A LOT OF THIS.
WE DON'T NEED THESE PEOPLE
ON A PUBLIC PAYROLL TO DO
ALL THIS KIND OF THING.

Robert says WELL, THAT'S RIGHT.
IN SOME WAYS WE NEED TO
BE A LITTLE CYNICAL ABOUT
GOVERNMENT'S WILLINGNESS
TO EVER ENFORCE THE
ENVIRONMENTAL LAW.
AND TO ME, THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING, THE MOST
IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT
IN THE U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL
MOVEMENT WAS THE ADVENT
OF CITIZEN SUITS.
EACH ENVIRONMENTAL LAW HAS
A PROVISION IN IT WHICH
ALLOWS, IF THE GOVERNMENT
FAILS TO ENFORCE THE LAW
AGAINST A POLLUTER WHO IS
BREAKING IT, ANY CITIZEN
CAN STEP INTO THE SHOES OF
THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY
AND PROSECUTE THAT POLLUTER
FOR PENALTIES AND FOR
INJUNCTIVE RELIEF.

Steve says SO WE NEED
THAT POWER HERE.

Robert says IN THE UNITED STATES, WE'VE
HAD THE SAME THING THEY'VE
HAD HERE IN ONTARIO.
MANY OF THE STATES HAVE
SIMPLY, WITH REPUBLICAN
GOVERNORS PARTICULARLY, HAVE
SIMPLY STOPPED ENFORCING
THE ENVIRONMENTAL LAW AS A
WAY OF RECRUITING POLLUTERS
TO THEIR STATES, AND
HAVE A FEW YEARS OF
POLLUTION-BASED PROSPERITY.
AND THEY'VE HAD THE SAME
KIND OF PROBLEMS WITH
E. COLI OUTBREAKS AND
WITH POLLUTION ULTIMATELY
ERODING THE ECONOMIES
OF THOSE STATES.

Steve says OKAY SO NOT TO BE
SIMPLISTIC ABOUT IT, WE NEED
SOME GOOD LAWSUITS HERE
IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
WE NEED TO START SUING
SOME GOVERNMENTS,
SUING SOME POLLUTERS.

Robert says YOU NEED THE ABILITY FOR
CITIZENS TO GO OUT AND
ENFORCE THE LAW.
AND THE REQUIREMENT THAT
DEVELOPERS DO ENVIRONMENTAL
IMPACT STATEMENTS THAT
DISCLOSE THE COST AND
BENEFITS OF THEIR PROPOSED
DEVELOPMENT ON THE WHOLE
COMMUNITY OVER
THE GENERATIONS.

Steve says BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE
THEY WILL NOT CLEAN UP
UNLESS THEY ARE FORCED
TO RECKON WITH THEIR OWN
EXISTENCE, IS THAT IT?

Robert says WELL, IF YOU CAN MAKE MONEY
BY POLLUTING THE AIR, OR
POLLUTING THE WATER, THE
TEMPTATION IS OUT THERE.
AND YOU NEED STRONG LAWS
TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE DON'T
CHEAT THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW?
THAT'S WHAT POLLUTION IS.

Steve says DO YOU HAVE A VIEW,
ROBERT, ON WHETHER OR NOT
THE GOVERNMENT OR THE
PRIVATE SECTOR IS A BETTER
CHAMPION OF THE ENVIRONMENT?
THIS GOVERNMENT'S ATTITUDE
HAS BEEN WE DON'T NEED A
LOT OF GOVERNMENT
INSPECTORS ON THE PAYROLL
IN ORDER TO TEST THE WATER.
THE PRIVATE SECTOR
CAN DO THAT.
THE PRIVATE LABS
CAN DO THAT.
WHAT'S THE EXPERIENCE?

Robert says IF YOU'RE ASKING WHETHER
PRIVATE LABORATORY CAN DO
LAB TESTS AS EFFICIENTLY
AS THE PUBLIC LABORATORY,
THE ANSWER IS THEY
PROBABLY CAN.

Steve says IS IT MORE DESIRABLE?

Robert continues IF YOUR QUESTION IS, IS THE
GOVERNMENT GOING TO ENFORCE
THE LAW AGAINST... IS THE
GOVERNMENT GOING TO ENFORCE
THE LAW REGULARLY AND RELIABLY,
OR ARE PRIVATE INDUSTRIES
GOING TO OBEY THE LAW EVEN
WHEN IT'S IN THEIR ECONOMIC
INTEREST TO POLLUTE, THE
ANSWER TO THOSE QUESTIONS IS NO.
GOVERNMENT IS ALWAYS
GOING TO DRAG ITS FEET
IN ENFORCING LOCAL
ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS, AND
INDUSTRY IS ALWAYS GOING TO
WANT TO TAKE MORE THAN ITS
SHARE OF THE WATER, OF
THE AIR, BY POLLUTING IT.

Steve says SO IF WE CAN'T
TRUST THE PRIVATE SECTOR
AND WE CAN'T TRUST
THE PUBLIC SECTOR...

Robert says WHAT YOU NEED IS THE ABILITY
FOR CITIZENS, INDIVIDUAL
CITIZENS TO BE INVOLVED IN THE
PROCESS AND AID DEMOCRACY.

Steve says WE ARE IN THE MIDST,
RIGHT NOW, OF A TERRIFIC
DEBATE OVER WHAT TO DO WITH
THE GARBAGE OF THE BIGGEST
CITY IN THIS COUNTRY.
AND THE LOCAL COUNCIL HAS,
IN ITS WISDOM, DECIDED THAT
THE BEST THING TO DO WAS
TO SIGN A BILLION DOLLAR
CONTRACT WITH A RATHER
REMOTE COMMUNITY IN
NORTHERN ONTARIO, AND PUT
THE GARBAGE ON THE TRAIN
AND SEND IT UP THERE
STARTING IN A COUPLE OF YEARS.
PHILOSOPHICALLY, DO YOU
HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

Robert says WELL, IN THIS PARTICULAR
CASE I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
IT BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF
WATER GOING INTO THAT MINE.
IT'S A QUARRY THAT
ESSENTIALLY, IF YOU DIDN'T
PUMP THE WATER OUT, OR IF
THE WATER WASN'T GOING DOWN
INTO THE RIVERS AND
LAKES AND GROUND WATERS,
IT WOULD BE A LAKE.
SO YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY
PUTTING A LANDFILL IN A LAKE.
AND THAT DOES NOT
MAKE MUCH SENSE TO ME.

Steve says BECAUSE?

Robert says BECAUSE THE POLLUTION IS
GOING TO GO RIGHT THROUGH IT.
LEACHATE IS GOING TO GO
THROUGH IT, AND IT'S GOING
TO CONTAMINATE PUBLIC
WATERWAYS, AND THE COST OF
THAT CONTAMINATION OVER
TIME ARE GOING TO
AMPLIFY ENORMOUSLY.
IT'S GOING TO END UP
POLLUTING AND SICKENING
PEOPLE DOWN THE ROAD, AND
YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO BE
ABLE TO GET IT OUT.
SO IT'S MUCH CHEAPER TO DEAL
WITH THE WASTE IN A PRUDENT
WAY NOW EVEN IF IT COSTS YOU
A LITTLE MORE MONEY, THAN
TO PUT IT IN A PLACE WHERE
IT IS GUARANTEED TO GO
INTO GROUND WATER.
NOW, OVER THE LONG TERM, THE
MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO
WITH THAT WASTE IS TO
STOP GENERATING IT.
AND THAT'S NOT
THAT HARD TO DO.
THEY DON'T HAVE
LANDFILLS IN EUROPE.
WHY DON'T THEY HAVE THEM?
BECAUSE IN EUROPE THE PEOPLE
WHO CREATE PACKAGING ALSO
HAVE TO PAY FOR
ITS DISPOSAL.
AND IN THIS COUNTRY, AS IN
THE UNITED STATES, WASTE
DISPOSAL IS SUBSIDIZED
BY THE TAXPAYER.
SO THE PERSON WHO CREATES
PACKAGING HAS NO INCENTIVE
TO MAKE THEIR
PACKAGING SMALLER.
THAT'S WHY YOU CAN GET CDs
THAT ARE THIS BIG IN A BOX
THAT'S THIS BIG.
IN EUROPE, IF YOU PUT
PACKAGING INTO THE STREAM OF
COMMERCE, YOU HAVE TO PAY
FOR ITS DISPOSAL, UNLESS
YOU CAN SHOW THAT YOU'VE
RECOVERED IT, YOU'RE
RECYCLED IT, THAT YOU'VE
REUSED IT, AND WHAT HAPPENS
BECAUSE OF THOSE INCENTIVES
IS IN EUROPE, THE PACKAGERS
REDUCE THE SIZE OF THEIR
PACKAGING, AND THEY DEVISE
WAYS OF RECOVERING IT SO
THEY WON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
AND ULTIMATELY, THAT'S
WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE DOING.

Steve says THAT'S
ULTIMATELY, THOUGH.
THAT'S A
LONG-RANGE PLAN.
WE HAVE A SHORT-TERM PROBLEM
IN THE MEANTIME, WHICH IS
APPARENTLY A CHOICE BETWEEN
DUMPING TONS OF GARBAGE IN
AN OPEN PIT MINE, OR
PUTTING TONS OF GARBAGE IN
TRUCKS AND SENDING IT DOWN
TO YOUR COUNTRY, WHICH
DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A
MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVE.
BUT THAT APPARENTLY
IS THE ALTERNATIVE.

Robert says WELL, ALL I WOULD SAY IS I
WOULDN'T PUT, I WOULD NOT
PUT GARBAGE IN A MINE
THAT IS GOING TO LEAK.
IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST
THROW IT INTO LAKE ONTARIO.
NOBODY'S GOING TO DO THAT.
THIS IS THE SLOW WAY OF
THROWING IT INTO LAKE ONTARIO.

Steve says JUST, FINALLY, THE
TWO TIMES I HAVE SEEN YOU
SPEAK, BAD THINGS HAVE BEEN
HAPPENING IN THE NEWS IN
THE ENVIRONMENT.
IT'S A COINCIDENCE, OF
COURSE, BUT IT MAKES ME WONDER
WHETHER OR NOT IT'S REALLY
WORTH BEING OPTIMISTIC.
CAN YOU BE OPTIMISTIC WHEN
IT COMES TO FIGHTING FOR
ENVIRONMENTAL
CAUSES THESE DAYS?
SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SO
MUCH BAD NEWS AROUND.

Robert says I'M A NATURAL OPTIMIST, BUT,
YOU KNOW, I THINK IF YOU
LOOK AT REALITY, THERE'S
A LOT OF THINGS TO BE
CONCERNED ABOUT.
MY PHILOSOPHY IS THAT FOR MY
OWN SAKE, I HAVE TO DO WHAT
I KNOW TO BE RIGHT, AND
KIND OF LET GO OF THE
RESULTS AND LET GOD
TAKE CARE OF THAT.
BUT TO TRY TO ACT PRUDENTLY,
AND TRY TO ACT RESPONSIBLY,
KNOWING WE'RE GOING TO LOSE
A LOT OF THE WONDERFUL
THINGS, ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSETS THAT I GREW UP WITH,
MY CHILDREN WILL NEVER
HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF
EXPERIENCING THOSE THINGS.
AND THE POPULATION IS GOING
TO INCREASE, AND WE ARE
BURDENING A LOT OF OUR
NATURAL RESOURCES.
BUT HOPEFULLY WE CAN
PRESERVE ENOUGH FOR THE
NEXT GENERATION THAT
THEY'LL HAVE SOME OF THE SAME
OPPORTUNITIES FOR ENRICHMENT
AND DIGNITY THAT WE HAD.

The clip ends.

Back in studio, Steve says ROBERT F. KENNEDY Jr. IN
TORONTO LAST NIGHT FOR
AN ONTARIO LIBERAL
PARTY FUNDRAISER.
AND ONCE AGAIN, WE WANT
TO THANK MARILYN CHURLEY,
GEORGE SMITHERMAN, AND TINA
MOLINARI FOR BEING WITH US
THIS EVENING.
AND THAT'S 4th READING
FOR THIS WEEKEND.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN, AND WE'LL
SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEKEND.

Music plays and the end credits roll.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Researcher, Peter Harris.

Editor, Dean Henry.

CEP-SCEP logo.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2000, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Show #206