Transcript: Show #190 | Mar 26, 2000

(music plays)

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says THIS WEEK ON
4TH READING, SPARE THE ROD.

A clip shows two men at a press conference examining some papers.

Steve says THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND THE
TORIES' TOUGH NEW CODE
OF CONDUCT FOR
ONTARIO STUDENTS.

(music plays)
Steve and five guests sit at a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his early forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a dark gray coat over a bluish grey shirt.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN AND
THIS IS 4TH READING.
WE'VE ALL HEARD ABOUT
THEM, TROUBLED KIDS,
DISRUPTING THE
CLASSROOMS,
GANGS ROAMING THE HALLS,
EVEN SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.
PREMIER MIKE HARRIS SAYS IT'S ABOUT TIME OUR KIDS
LEARNED ABOUT TWO OTHER R'S,
RESPECT AND RESPONSIBILITY.
AND THIS WEEK HE
MOVED TO BACK THAT UP.
HE WANTS TEACHERS TO HAVE
THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND KIDS
FOR SWEARING OR
THREATENING THEM.
BRINGING A
WEAPON TO SCHOOL,
OR SUPPLYING DRUGS OR
ALCOHOL TO ANOTHER
STUDENT WILL MEAN
AUTOMATIC EXPULSION.
AND PARENTS WILL HAVE TO
PICK UP THE TAB FOR ANY
PROPERTY DAMAGE CAUSED
BY THEIR CHILDREN.
THIS NEW KICK-BUTT
PHILOSOPHY HAS SOME
EDUCATORS SCRATCHING
THEIR HEADS.

A man in his late fifties stands behind a window. Kids walk in the park outside.

He looks at the kids and says MIXED UP KIDS, YOU
KNOW, 16 YEARS OLD.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT
THEY WANT TO DO YET,
HAVE NO CAREER
THOUGHTS YET.
AND YOU KNOW,
THEY'RE STRUGGLING.
AND I THINK THIS IS THE
KIND OF KID THAT HARRIS
IS TRYING TO TARGET AND IT MAY
HAVE SOME POSITIVE IMPACT.
IT MAY.

Now, kids walk in a school corridor.
[school bell rings]

A man in his fifties stands in his office. He wears glasses, a black suit, blue shirt and patterned black and yellow tie.

A caption on screen reads "Bob Gooding, principal, Danforth Technical Institute."

He says THIS WAS A SCHOOL THAT HAD
A REPUTATION OF HAVING
A LOT OF DIFFICULTY WITH
VIOLENCE AND STUDENTS
THAT WERE VERY
DIFFICULT TO CONTROL.
WE SET RULES.
WE MADE THOSE RULES VERY
CLEAR TO THE STUDENTS
AND TO THE STAFF
AND TO THE PARENTS.
AND THE KEY THING IS,
WE ENFORCED THEM
AND WE ENFORCED
THEM RIGIDLY.
I FOUND THE CODE OF CONDUCT
THAT WE HAD HERE WAS A VERY
USEFUL TOOL, BUT ALL OF
THOSE THINGS TOGETHER
STILL DON'T SETTLE
THE PROBLEM.
THEY SOLVE THE
PROBLEM.
BECAUSE AS I SAID, YOU NEED
TO HAVE VERY STRONG, CLEAR
UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT IS
THAT MAKES CHILDREN MISBEHAVE.
YOU NEED TO THEN IDENTIFY
PROGRAMS THAT WILL HELP THEM
LEARN TO CONTROL
THEIR BEHAVIOURS.

A clip shows boys talking outside a school.

Steve says STILL THE
PREMIER WILL EMPHASIS
A GET TOUGH APPROACH.

In a clip, several men and women sit in a circle in a room. They all wear dark suits. There are some cameras in the room.
Mike Harris is in the room, too. He's in his fifties, clean-shaven with short graying hair. He wears a black blazer over a blue shirt.

Mike says WE'RE GOING TO INTRODUCE
A PROVINCE-WIDE
CODE OF CONDUCT.
WE WANT CLEAR RULES.
WE HAVE STATED THROUGH
ROUNDTABLES THAT
WE'VE HAD BEFORE AND OUR
BLUEPRINT COMMITMENT,
WE THINK SUCH OBVIOUS
THINGS THAT ANY STUDENT
BRINGS A WEAPON TO
SCHOOL WILL BE EXPELLED.
THERE'S NO EXCUSES.
THERE'S NO EXCEPTIONS.

Steve says SWEAR AT A TEACHER,
FACE AN AUTOMATIC SUSPENSION.
CRITICS SAY THAT POWER
COULD BE ABUSED.

In a clip, principal Bob Gooding says to the camera
I THINK ALL OF US WOULD
UNDERSTAND THAT THERE
DEVELOPS WITHIN THAT
TEACHER A PERSONAL
ANIMOSITY AND ANGER.
THEY GET UPSET.
AND I DON'T THINK ANYWHERE
IN OUR COMMON LAW
OR IN OUR PRINCIPLES OF
JURISPRUDENCE WOULD
WE EVER AGREE THAT A VICTIM
OF MISBEHAVIOUR SHOULD ALSO
BE ALLOWED TO BE
THE JUDGE AND JURY.

A new clip shows Janet Ecker surrounded by journalists and microphones. Janet is in her mid-forties with short light brown hair.

A caption on screen reads "Janet Ecker, Education Minister."

She says I THINK THERE HAS TO BE
A GOOD STRONG PROCESS,
NOT ONLY TO GUIDE WHETHER
IT'S TEACHERS OR PRINCIPALS
OR VICE-PRINCIPALS IN THE
DECISIONS THAT THEY MAKE,
BUT ALSO IF THERE IS A
DECISION THAT'S BEEN MADE
THAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE,
THERE NEEDS TO BE A PROCESS
TO DEAL WITH THAT AND
WE'RE LOOKING VERY CLOSELY
AT WHAT MIGHT NEED
TO BE IN PLACE.

In another clip, Mike Harris says WE PLAN TO LOOK AT A POLICY
WHEREBY PARENTS CAN BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE FOR DAMAGE FOR
ACTIONS OF THEIR CHILDREN.

A woman closes a sliding door; then, she crosses the door with a bar.

Steve says THAT KIND OF
TALK DISTURBS NANCY DIXON.
SHE FOUND THE CROWD HER
DAUGHTER HUNG OUT WITH
AS A TEENAGER SCARY, SO
SCARY SHE HAD THESE EXTRA
LOCKS PUT ON HER DOOR.

Nancy stands in a park. She's in her forties, with short blond hair. She wears black shirt and trousers.

She says IT IS OUR SOCIETY BLAMING
PARENTS AND SAYING THAT
THE REASON KIDS ARE BEHAVING
THIS WAY IS BECAUSE
OF THE WAY THE PARENTS
HAVE RAISED THEM OR HOW
THE PARENTS HAVE
ACTED TOWARDS THEM.
IT'S A NICE THEORY BUT
IT DOESN'T HOLD WATER.
IN TRUTH WE DO NOT
PARENT IN VACUUMS.
WE ARE NOT THE ONLY
INFLUENCE ON OUR CHILDREN.

Now, a woman walks through a corridor, and then she enters an office.

Steve says MARIE BOUNTROGIANNI IS
A FORMER CHIEF PSYCHOLOGIST
WITH THE HAMILTON-WENTWORTH
REGIONAL SCHOOL BOARD.
TODAY SHE'S A LIBERAL
MPP AT QUEEN'S PARK.

Marie is in her forties, with long brown hair tied in a tail. She wears a mint green turtle neck shirt and a dark green jacket with a brooch in a flower shape.

She says THEY CAN BE
POLITICALLY POPULAR.
PEOPLE ARE FEELING UNSAFE
WHEN THEY HEAR OF VIOLENCE
IN THEIR NEIGHBOURHOOD
SCHOOLS, OF COURSE.
BUT IF PEOPLE STOPPED TO
THINK OF WHAT THIS MEANS,
YOU'RE EXPELLING A
STUDENT WHICH MEANS
THEY ARE NOT IN A
SCHOOL SIX HOURS A DAY.
THOSE ARE ANOTHER SIX HOURS
A DAY THEY ARE UNSUPERVISED
OUT IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD.

Principal Gooding, in a clip, says to the camera
IF YOU DO NOT PROVIDE
SPECIFIC TRAINING AND
PROGRAMMING FOR THOSE
YOUNGSTERS SO THEY CAN LEARN
TO UNDERSTAND THEIR
OWN BEHAVIOURS,
THEN YOU'RE JUST GOING TO LEAD
THEM FURTHER AND FURTHER
DOWN THE ROAD TO MISBEHAVIOUR
AND EVENTUAL CRIMINALITY.

The clips end.

Back in studio, Steve says SO WILL MIKE HARRIS' TOUGH
NEW CODE OF CONDUCT WORK?
LET'S FIND OUT.
WE'RE GOING TO
ASK BOB GOODING,
AN EDUCATOR WHO'S
ON THE FRONT LINES.
YOU JUST SAW HIM.
BOB IS THE PRINCIPAL
OF DANFORTH TECHNICAL
INSTITUTE IN
DOWNTOWN TORONTO.

Bob wears a black blazer over a light blue shirt and patterned blue and grey tie.

Steve continues AND MIKE THOMAS IS HERE.
HE'S A SCHOOL TRUSTEE WITH
THE TORONTO DISTRICT SCHOOL
BOARD REPRESENTING
THE SCARBOROUGH
MALVERN AREA OF
THE CITY.

Mike is in his late thirties, clean-shaven and with short light brown hair. He wears a light gray blazer over a white shirt and patterned black tie.

Steve says AND OUR PANEL OF
QUEEN'S PARK ANALYSTS.
HERE THEY ARE, FORMER
TORY POLICY ADVISER,
GINA BRANNAN.

Gina is in her forties, with long blonde hair. She wears glasses and a beige jacket over a black shirt.

Steve continues FROM THE OTTAWA LAW
FIRM FRASER MILNER,
THERE'S RICHARD MAHONEY,
A PAST PRESIDENT
OF THE LIBERALS.

Richard Mahoney is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short white hair. He wears a black suit, blue shirt and mustard tie.

Steve says AND FORMER NDP CABINET
MINISTER, RUTH GRIER.

Ruth Grier is in her sixties, with short white hair. She wears a blue jacket over a white shirt.

Steve says BOB, I WANT TO START WITH
YOU AND JUST GET A LITTLE
MORE UNDERSTANDING OF THE
DANFORTH TECH SITUATION.
YOU HAVE A SCHOOL IN
DOWNTOWN TORONTO.
SOME WOULD ARGUE FAIRLY
TOUGH CLIENTELE,
TOUGH PART OF TOWN.
YOU SEEM TO HAVE THINGS
UNDER CONTROL BASED ON
OUR READ OF YOUR SCHOOL.
HOW DID YOU ENFORCE THAT
NEW TOUGH POLICY THAT
YOU'VE HAD IN PLACE THERE
SINCE YOU BECAME PRINCIPAL?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Bob Gooding, principal, Danforth Technical Institute."

Bob says THE KEY POINT WAS TO MAKE
SURE THE STUDENTS KNEW THAT
WE HAD WORKED WITH THEM AND
WITH PARENTS TO SET UP
A CODE OF BEHAVIOUR, THAT
WE HAD ALL AGREED TO IT.
AND WHEN WE PUT
THIS IN PLACE,
THAT WE MEANT WHAT WE SAID,
AND THAT IF THEY WERE GOING
TO STEP OUT OF LINE, IF
THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE
MISTAKES, THERE WOULD
BE A CONSEQUENCE.

Steve says BUT IT WASN'T
ONLY THE STICK.
I UNDERSTAND THERE
WAS A CARROT AS WELL,
MEDIATION AND THIS
TYPE OF THING.

Bob says YOU'RE VERY RIGHT, BUT IT
WAS NEVER - IT WOULD HAVE
BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE IT
WORK IF WE HADN'T
HAD A STRONG PROGRAM OF
THOSE THINGS THAT
YOU WERE SAYING.
WE NEEDED TO
HAVE MEDIATION.
WE NEEDED TO HAVE
PEER COUNSELLORS.
WE NEEDED TO HAVE ALL OF
THIS CURRICULUM FOCUS
IN THE CLASSROOMS, TRYING
TO STOP VIOLENCE.
TRYING TO STOP RACISM.
THEY WORK TOGETHER.

Steve says HOW MANY DIFFERENT ETHNIC
GROUPS WOULD YOU SAY
THE KIDS WHO GO TO YOUR
SCHOOLS REPRESENT?

Bob says WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER.
WE HAVE FIVE MAIN GROUPS.

Steve says FOR EXAMPLE?

Bob says WE HAVE LARGELY ANGLO
SAXON STUDENTS BUT WE
HAVE VIETNAMESE, CHINESE.
WE HAVE AFRICAN, CARIBBEAN.
WE HAVE A NUMBER OF
STUDENTS FROM LATIN AMERICA.
IT'S QUITE A
LARGE GROUP.

Steve says WOULD YOU SAY ON BALANCE
IT'S WORKING RIGHT NOW?

Bob says I WOULD SAY THAT I WOULD
BE IN A DIFFICULTY
IF I WERE TO SAY
THAT IT'S PERFECT.
BUT I THINK THAT WE HAVE
MADE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT
ON BEHAVIOUR IN THAT SCHOOL
AND I WOULD SAY THAT
WE RUN NOW A
SAFE SCHOOL.

Steve says WHAT KIND OF STUFF ARE
YOU STILL DEALING
WITH AT RECESS?
STILL FIGHTS OUTSIDE?

Bob says WELL, YOU HAVE TO DEAL
WITH THESE ISSUES
WITH YOUNGSTERS.

Steve says ANYBODY BRING
IN WEAPONS TO SCHOOL,
THOUGH, STILL?

Bob says WELL, WE STILL DEAL
WITH THOSE ISSUES.
WE STILL DEAL WITH YOUNGSTERS
LOSING THEIR TEMPERS.
YOUNGSTERS
SPREADING RUMOURS.
YOUNGSTERS SOMETIMES
CARRYING A WEAPON BECAUSE
THEY THINK IT'S GOING
TO PROTECT THEM.
AND WE DEAL WITH THESE
THINGS ON A REGULAR DAILY
BASIS AND WE HAVE
TO BE VIGILANT.

Steve says MIKE, LET ME FIND OUT
ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.
YOU WENT TO LESTER PEARSON
SCHOOL IN SCARBOROUGH
WHICH, IF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
READING THE PAPERS
AND PAYING ATTENTION, IT'S
HAD SOME TROUBLES LATELY.
IT'S BEEN A TROUBLED
SCHOOL FOR A BIT.

Mike says MM-HMM.

Steve continues DO YOU WANT TO TELL US
ABOUT SOME OF THE VIOLENCE
THAT GOES ON THERE AND WHY?

The caption changes to "Mike Thomas, Toronto School Trustee."

Mike says WELL, I THINK THAT
CERTAINLY THE MEDIA'S DONE
A VERY INTERESTING
JOB IN COVERING THE
PEARSON SITUATION.
THEY'VE BEEN THERE QUITE
A FEW TIMES THIS YEAR
ACTUALLY BUT THE ONE THING
THAT HAS ALWAYS MANAGED
TO ELUDE THE OBVIOUS IN THE
NEWSCASTS AND IN PRINT
IS THAT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT -
IN FACT IN EVERY MAJOR CASE
OF A VIOLENT INCIDENT AT
THE SCHOOL THIS YEAR,
IT'S NOT BEEN A
STUDENT WHO STARTED IT.
IT'S BEEN AN OUTSIDE
ELEMENT THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT IN.

Steve says GIVE ME A FOR INSTANCE,
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

Mike says WELL THERE'S A FASHION SHOW
ON A SATURDAY EVENING WHERE
THE INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS
SHOT WAS, I BELIEVE, 24.
24 YEARS OLD.
HE MAY IN FACT KNOW WHO
SHOT HIM BUT HE'S NOT
CO-OPERATING WITH POLICE,
BUT IT WASN'T A LARGE
GROUPING OF STUDENTS
FROM THE SCHOOL.
IT WAS A COMMUNITY GROUP
THAT WAS IN THE SCHOOL
HOLDING THE FASHION TALENT
SHOW AND IT CERTAINLY
WASN'T ONE OF OUR STUDENTS.
WE HAD THE PRINCIPAL ON
SITE ACTUALLY DURING
THE TALENT SHOW AND THAT
WOULD BE PROBABLY
THE MOST OBVIOUS CASE.
IT WASN'T EVEN DURING
SCHOOL HOURS OR A WEEKDAY.

Steve says SO YOU THINK THIS APPROACH
THAT Mr. HARRIS UNVEILED
EARLIER THIS WEEK IS
GOING TO DO ANYTHING?

Mike says WELL, CERTAINLY IT WON'T
ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM.
I THINK THE CRITICS OF THIS
CODE OF CONDUCT ARE SAYING,
WELL, IT DOESN'T ADDRESS
THE ROOT PROBLEMS,
WHICH OF COURSE IT DOESN'T,
BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.
AND IT'S A CODE OF CONDUCT
FOR IN THE SCHOOL,
DURING SCHOOL HOURS.
YOU CAN'T ADDRESS WHAT
HAPPENS AFTER HOURS
WITH PERMIT SPACE.
IT CAN'T ADDRESS WHAT
HAPPENS IF A DRUG DEALER
COMES INTO THE SCHOOL
LOOKING TO SETTLE A SCORE.
IT IS WHAT IT IS, AND
IT'S A CODE OF CONDUCT,
WHICH ALL SCHOOLS IN
ONTARIO ALREADY HAVE,
IN FACT SOMETHING
VERY SIMILAR TO THIS.
THIS MAKES IT UNIFORM
ACROSS ONTARIO AND
IT'S STRICTER IN A LOT OF CASES,
AND ACTUALLY IT TAKES AWAY
SOME OF THE POWER FROM
THE TRUSTEES IN TERMS OF
HOLDING THE FINAL DECISION
TO EXPEL A STUDENT WHICH
I GUESS DEPENDING ON WHERE
YOU'RE COMING FROM
IS GOOD OR BAD.

Steve says IT'S UNDENIABLE THAT THIS
TOUGHER APPROACH PROBABLY
HAS A LOT OF POLITICAL
SALESMANSHIP BEHIND IT.
YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC SEEMS
TO BELIEVE THAT OUR SCHOOLS
ARE MUCH MORE DANGEROUS
PLACES THAN THEY WERE
WHEN WE WENT TO SCHOOL AND
THEREFORE THIS KIND OF
A GET TOUGH APPROACH
IS WHAT'S NEEDED.
WHAT DO YOU THINK, RUTH?

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier, former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth says WELL, I MEAN, VERY
INTERESTING TO LISTEN
TO OUR TWO GUESTS.
I MEAN, WHEN IT WAS JUNE
'94 WHEN OUR GOVERNMENT
USED THE PHASE ZERO
TOLERANCE AND BROUGHT IN
THE POLICY THAT THERE HAD
TO BE CODES OF CONDUCT IN
SCHOOL AND THAT THEY HAD
TO WORK, AS BOB HAS SAID,
WITH THE COMMUNITY,
WITH THE STUDENTS,
WITH THE SCHOOLS TO
ESTABLISH THE CODE OF CONDUCT.
WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME
IS THAT THEY ALSO SAID,
EVERY INCIDENCE OF VIOLENCE
HAD TO BE REPORTED TO THE
POLICE AND THERE HAD TO BE
A RECORD KEPT AND SUBMITTED
TO THE MINISTRY OF
EDUCATION OF VIOLENCE
IN SCHOOLS.
AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD IN ALL
OF THE GRAND SPEECHES
ABOUT CODES OF CONDUCT AS
THOUGH THEY HAD SUDDENLY
BEEN DISCOVERED IN THE LAST
MONTH OR SO ANY FIGURES
TO SAY, IS IT
GETTING WORSE?
IS IT GETTING BETTER?
TORONTO THEY EXPELLED
LESS CHILDREN LAST YEAR
THAN THEY DID
THE YEAR BEFORE.
I'M NOT SURE THAT'S ONE
YEAR IS VALID.

Steve says THERE'S 2 MILLION KIDS
IN SCHOOL IN ONTARIO.
2 MILLION KIDS.
THERE WERE 70 EXPULSIONS
UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM
LAST YEAR, 70
OUT OF 2 MILLION.
THIS IS NOT EXACTLY AN
AVALANCHE OF EXPULSIONS.
HOWEVER, UNDER
THE NEW RULES,
PRESUMABLY WE'RE GOING TO
SEE A LOT MORE EXPULSIONS.
IS THAT SOMETHING WE OUGHT
TO BE WORRIED ABOUT?

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney, Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard says WELL, YEAH, I
THINK WE SHOULD.
I THINK THAT RUTH BRINGS
UP A GOOD POINT THAT

AS TO OUR GUEST, THERE'S
A REAL PLACE FOR CODES OF
CONDUCT AND IT'S CLEARLY,
AMONG OTHER THINGS,
THAT BOB HAS DONE AT HIS
SCHOOL HAD BENEFICIAL IMPACT.
BUT IT'S ONLY ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT HE'S EMPLOYED
TO GET THE RESULTS
THAT HE HAD.
I THINK THAT THE PROBLEM
WITH A BIG INCREASE
IN EXPULSIONS IS, THE
GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLAN
FOR WHERE TO PUT THESE KIDS
THAT ARE GOING TO BE EXPELLED.
AND IF THEY'RE ONLY GOING
TO END UP IN BOOT CAMP,
PERHAPS SOME OF THEM -
SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WILL
BE EXPELLED DESERVE TO
END UP IN SOME SORT OF
AN INSTITUTION, BUT I WOULD
THINK THAT BY AND LARGE
THE BEHAVIOURAL PROBLEMS THAT
ATTACH TO THOSE KIDS WHO
ARE GOING TO BE EXPELLED
ARE PROBABLY BETTER DEALT
WITH BY NOT ONLY THEIR
SCHOOLS BUT THE SOCIAL
SYSTEMS THAT WE HAVE
IN PLACE TO DEAL
WITH BEHAVIOURAL PROBLEMS.
IRONICALLY, I WOULD ADD,
THAT IN THE BILLION DOLLAR
CUTS TO EDUCATION, SOME OF
THOSE VERY PROGRAMS THAT WE
USED TO USE FOR BEHAVIOURAL
PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN CUT,
SO RIGHT DIRECTION BUT
SOME REAL PROBLEMS
IN THE EXECUTION,
I THINK.

Steve says GINA, WHAT THE PREMIER HAS
SAID SO FAR IS THAT HE'S
LOOKING AT QUOTE-UNQUOTE
STRICT DISCIPLINE PROGRAMS
WHICH MAY BE MODELED ON THE
BOOT CAMPS THAT GAINED SO
MUCH ATTENTION LAST TIME.
IS THAT IN YOUR VIEW THE
BEST SOLUTION FOR KIDS WHO
GET EXPELLED BECAUSE THEY
SASSED OFF AT A TEACHER
OR THEY BROUGHT A KNIFE TO
SCHOOL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

Gina says IF EXPELLING IS GOING
TO BE THE ROUTE THAT THE
GOVERNMENT DECIDES TO TAKE,
THEY CERTAINLY HAVE TO
PROVIDE SOME PLACE FOR
THESE CHILDREN TO BE TAUGHT
AND I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT
BOOT CAMP IS WHERE
THEY SHOULD BE.
I'M ALL FOR
CODES OF CONDUCT,
BUT I'M ALL FOR CODES OF
CONDUCT THAT ARE DEVELOPED
WITH THE STUDENTS'
INVOLVEMENT.
THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE
POLICE AND THE COMMUNITY.
THE INVOLVEMENT OF
THE TEACHERS
AND THE INVOLVEMENT OF
THE PARENTS.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE
CHILDREN BUY IN TO THE CODE
OF CONDUCT, THEN - AND
THEY AREN'T THE AUTHORS OF
THIS CODE OF CONDUCT, THEN
HOW DO YOU EXPECT
THEM TO RESPECT IT?
I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT THE
GOVERNMENT COMING IN AND
SAYING, THIS IS THE
WAY IT'S GOING TO BE.
I THINK THE CODE OF CONDUCT
IS THE WAY WE SHOULD GO,
BUT I THINK THEY
SHOULD BE INVOLVED.

Steve says WELL, IT'S INTERESTING,
THE PREMIER SEEMS TO BE
TAKING A VERY DIFFERENT
TACT TO THAT.
HE'S NOT SAYING WE SHOULD
BRING THE STUDENTS IN AND
BE COLLABORATIVE AND GET
THEIR VIEWS ON THIS AND
MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL
NICE AND TOUCHY-FEELY.
HE'S SAY, LOOK IT,
HERE'S THE WAY IT IS.

Mike says STUDENTS AREN'T
GOING TO SAY BOOT CAMPS
IF YOU GIVE THEM
THE CHANCE.
THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, SEND
US OFF TO A NICE RESORT
OR SOMEPLACE TO RELAX
AND GIVE US SOME MORE
TROUBLE TO GET INTO.

Ruth says THE SCHOOL
THAT WAS SET UP
TO DEAL WITH STUDENTS
WHO WERE BEING EXPELLED
IN TORONTO AND THAT'S
BEEN GOING FOR
THREE OR FOURS
YEARS NOW LOST
ITS PROVINCIAL
FUNDING THIS WEEK.
SO I MEAN THE POINT THAT
THERE HAVE TO BE SUPPORT
SYSTEMS THERE IF THIS
PROGRAM IS NOT GOING
TO JUST HAVE A WHOLE LOT
MORE TEENAGERS OUT
ON THE STREETS WITH
NOTHING TO DO ALL DAY,
IS A VERY VALID ONE.
AND THAT'S WHAT
WE'RE NOT SEEING.

Richard says I AGREE WITH RUTH.
IT'S PROBABLY A BIGGER
SOCIETAL PROBLEM THAN THE
DAMAGE THEY'RE DOING TO OUR
SCHOOLS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
WE HAVE A REAL LIVE EXAMPLE
HERE IN BOB'S SCHOOL,
DANFORTH TECH.
HE TOLD US IN THE SETUP
PIECE, IN THE INTRODUCTION,
THAT THEY ACTUALLY
INVOLVE THE STUDENTS
IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE
CODES, SO AS GINA SAYS,
THERE WAS BUY IN.

Bob says IT'S CRITICAL.

Gina says THERE HAS TO BE A BUY IN.
AND NOT ONLY DOES THERE
HAVE TO BE A BUY IN,
BUT I THINK FOLLOWING
HAVING A CODE OF CONDUCT
AND THE WAY IN WHICH YOU
DEAL WITH THE INDIVIDUAL
WHO HAS BREACHED THAT
CODE OF CONDUCT, I MEAN,
IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM, WE'VE
BROUGHT IN ALTERNATIVE
DISPUTE RESOLUTION
WAY BACK IN 1989,
AND IT'S A PROCESS WHEN
YOU HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE,
TWO GANGS IN A SCHOOL THAT
ARE OPPOSING EACH OTHER AND
THERE'S A BIG RUMBLE OR
IMBROGLIO AS THEY SAY
IN MY FAMILY, AND SO WHAT
ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
SIT DOWN AND SAY, OKAY,
NOW IF THERE'S WEAPONS
INVOLVED, I WANT THE
POLICE BROUGHT IN.
I WANT THE POLICE
BROUGHT IN.

Steve says DO YOU BRING THE
COPS IN ALL THE TIME?

Bob says WE DO.

Gina says ABSOLUTELY.

Bob says IF THERE'S A
CRIMINAL OFFENCE,
WE BRING IN THE
POLICE IMMEDIATELY.

Steve says IF A GUY'S CARRYING
A PENKNIFE,
DOESN'T BRANDISH IT DURING
THE COURSE OF A RUMBLE BUT
HE'S GOT IT IN HIS POCKET,
IS THAT A CRIMINAL OFFENCE
AND YOU'D BRING
THE POLICE INTO IT?

Bob says WE WOULDN'T JUDGE
IT THAT WAY.
IT'S A MATTER OF
WHETHER IT'S DISPLAYED,
WHETHER IT'S WAVED AROUND.
BUT IF IT'S HIDDEN AWAY.
MIND YOU, WE STILL SUSPEND
THEM FOR CARRYING A KNIFE
WHETHER IT'S HIDDEN AWAY.
IF WE FIND THAT THEY HAVE
THAT, WE SUSPEND THEM.

Steve says WHAT ABOUT UNDER
THE NEW RULES?
IF A STUDENT BRINGS A
WEAPON TO CLASS AND SHOWS
IT OFF IN FRONT OF A
TEACHER - GOD FORBID WE
HAD AN EXAMPLE YESTERDAY
WHERE SOMEBODY BROUGHT A
GUN IN AND WAS TALKED

IT WASN'T IN CANADA.
IT WAS IN THE
STATES, OF COURSE,
BUT THEY WERE TALKED
DOWN WITHOUT ANY DAMAGE.
BUT IF THAT WERE TO
HAPPEN, IS THAT STUDENT
EXPELLED FOR LIFE?
IS THAT THE IDEA?

Bob says WELL, THAT'S WHAT IT SOUNDS
LIKE TO ME UNLESS THERE'S
A LOT OF DETAIL THAT
I'M NOT AWARE OF.
THAT YOUNGSTER WOULD NEED
TO HAVE SOME DISCRETION.
WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO LOOK
AT THE SITUATION AROUND
WHAT THAT YOUNGSTER
WAS TRYING TO DO,
WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE
OF THE WEAPON?
IS THERE ISSUES IN THAT
PERSON'S MENTAL MAKE UP,
IN THEIR SOCIAL BACKGROUND?
AN AUTOMATIC EXPULSION TO
ME IS FRANKLY RIDICULOUS.
WE'RE NOT DOING THAT
YOUNGSTER ANY GOOD.

Steve says DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THERE'S
A LOT OF DISCRETION
INVOLVED IN THE PROGRAM
THAT WAS UNVEILED
THIS WEEK, THOUGH.

Bob says I DON'T BELIEVE THAT
THERE'S ANY DISCRETION.

Gina says EXCEPT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT
COMES TO CARRYING WEAPONS
AND IT'S ONE KID CARRYING
A GUN INTO THE SCHOOL,
BUT I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK
DOWN AT THE STATES,
THE KIND OF DAMAGE THAT CAN
BE DONE WITH ONE GUN AS,
YOU KNOW, KIDS DO A
RE-ENACTMENT OF THE MATRIX,
I'VE GOT A REAL
PROBLEM WITH THAT.
NOW, I WANT THOSE KIDS
EXPELLED OUT OF THE SCHOOL.
BUT ONCE WE'VE
EXPELLED THEM,
WE HAVE A HUGE
RESPONSIBILITY TO ADDRESS
THE PROBLEMS AS POINTED
OUT WITH RESPECT
TO THOSE CHILDREN.

Ruth says WE ALL KNOW THAT
THE ONTARIO FEDERATION
OF ANGLERS AND HUNTERS SENT
BOOKS INTO THE SCHOOLS

Gina interrupts and says DISGUSTING, ABSOLUTE DISGUSTING.

Ruth continues TALKING ABOUT THIS, SO
THE CONTRADICTIONS
ARE JUST INCREDIBLE.
HOW TO USE HANDGUNS.

Gina says WHO THE HECK LET THEM IN?

Ruth says I THINK THE MINISTRY
OF NATURAL RESOURCES.

Steve says NO, THEY
SENT THEM DIRECTLY.
DIRECTLY FROM
THE ASSOCIATION.

Gina says IF I WERE THE PRINCIPAL
OF THOSE SCHOOLS,
THEY'D HAVE BEEN
RE-BUNDLED AND SENT BACK.

Steve says THAT'S WHAT'S
HAPPENED.

Ruth says THE TRILLIUM LOGO
WAS ON THE BACK.

Steve says IT WAS ON THE
FRONT ACTUALLY.

Ruth says ON THE FRONT, OH, OKAY.
BUT I'M INTERESTED IN THE
TRUSTEE'S ATTITUDE TO THE
LACK OF PEER PROCESS AND
THE FACT THAT YOU'RE
NOW OUT OF IT IF
SOMEONE SHOULD BE -

Mike says WELL, I LOOK
AT IT THIS WAY.
I'M POWERLESS IN A LOT OF
AREAS NOW AS A TRUSTEE.
A LOT HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY
FROM ME AS A TRUSTEE.
WELL, NOT FROM ME
PERSONALLY,
FROM THE OLD
TRUSTEES.
THIS IS MY FIRST TERM SO
I NEVER WAS AROUND -
I WASN'T AROUND WHEN WE HAD
POWER TO TAX AND
DO THE WHOLE SHEBANG.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
LEARNED VERY QUICKLY AND IT
WAS A SURPRISE DURING MY
FIRST EXPULSION HEARING IS,
I WAS ON A COMMITTEE
OF THREE TRUSTEES.
EXPELLED THE STUDENT.
RIGHT AFTERWARDS, WE
HAD ANOTHER HEARING.
THE SAME GROUP OF TRUSTEES
TO RE-ADMIT A STUDENT.
THIS STUDENT SUCCESSFULLY
WENT THROUGH A PROGRAM
IN TORONTO, WORKED WITH
A COUNSELLOR THAT
WAS PROVIDED FOR BY
TORONTO FUNDS,
LIKE TORONTO DISTRICT
SCHOOL BOARD FUNDS,
AND THE STUDENT HAD - YOU
KNOW, IT WAS NO EASY THING.
THE STUDENT HAD TO SHOW
PUNCTUALITY, DISCIPLINE.
SEVERAL YEARS.
IT WAS ABOUT
THREE YEARS.

Ruth says DO YOU STILL HAVE THE MONEY
FOR THOSE PROGRAMS?

Mike says I DON'T THINK SO AND
CERTAINLY THE SCHOOL BOARD'S
NOT EQUIPPED TO
RUN BOOT CAMPS.
AND WHO'S GOING
TO PAY FOR IT?

Richard says THIS IS A HUGE POTENTIAL FLAW
IN THE - AS YOU POINTED OUT,
STEVE, THE LACK
OF FLEXIBILITY
IN THE CODE
ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK.
I SAW GAIL NYBERG, TORONTO
SCHOOL BOARD QUOTED.
IMAGINE THE POWER TO SUSPEND
IS GIVEN TO TEACHERS.
THE POWER TO EXPEL'S GIVEN
DIRECTLY TO PRINCIPALS
IN CASES MUCH LESS
SERIOUS, OF COURSE,
THAN CARRYING A WEAPON.
I SAW NYBERG QUOTED
SAYING, IMAGINE
THE LAW SUITS WE'D
GET FROM PARENTS
IF PRINCIPALS HAD THE RIGHT
TO EXPEL FOR A REASONABLY
MINOR OFFENCE AND THAT
STUDENT AND-OR HIS PARENTS
HAD NO RIGHT TO
A FAIR HEARING.
I MEAN, OF COURSE YOU COULD
HAVE A VERY STRONG ABUSE
OF THIS WITH NO ABILITY TO GO
TO THE SCHOOL BOARD AND SAY,
HEY, I THINK I'VE BEEN
BADLY DONE BY HERE, RIGHT?

Gina says THERE HAS TO BE
BUY IN FROM EVERYONE.

Richard says WELL NO, IT'S NOT JUST A
BUY IN WITH RESPECT, GINA.

Gina says PARENTS TOO.

Richard continues YOU NEED TO HAVE THE
ABILITY TO HAVE A HEARING
IN CASES WHERE I THINK AS
BOB SAID THE SET UP -

Steve says CAN I ASK AN OBVIOUS
QUESTION HERE?
LET ME ASK AN
OBVIOUS QUESTION.
ARE SCHOOLS REALLY THAT
MUCH MORE VIOLENT TODAY
THAN THEY WERE
25 YEARS AGO?
THIS IS WHAT I
NEED TO KNOW.
YOU KNOW, IN THE OLD DAYS,
IF YOU HAD A PROBLEM
WITH A CLASSMATE, YOU GO
OUT BEHIND THE BUSH.
YOU'D SETTLE IT YOURSELF.
THE POLICE WEREN'T
BROUGHT IN.
NOWADAYS THE POLICE
ARE BROUGHT IN.

Gina says THERE WERE NO
GUNS, STEVE.

Steve says I DON'T KNOW,
I'M ASKING.
LET ME HEAR FROM BOB.
BOB, WHAT'S IT LIKE?

Bob says MY EXPERIENCE AS A STUDENT
MYSELF IN THE HIGH SCHOOL SYSTEM
WAS, THERE WAS A LOT
OF FIGHTING GOING ON.

Steve says ABSOLUTELY.

Bob continues THERE WAS A LOT OF THAT,
THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT,
BUT IN THOSE DAYS IT WAS
SETTLED RELATIVELY
ON A MINOR LEVEL.
BUT NOW THERE'S SUCH AN
EASY ACCESS TO WEAPONRY.
TO KNIVES, TO GUNS, AND
THERE'S SUCH A DIFFERENT
ATTITUDE ABOUT
VIOLENCE THAT PERVADES
THIS SOCIETY AT
THIS POINT.
AND WHEN I'M LOOKING AT
GOING HOME SOMETIMES EARLY
ON THE OCCASION, ESPECIALLY
WHEN I'M ON THE MARCH
BREAK, FOR EXAMPLE, AND
AROUND THE TIME
THE YOUNGSTERS COME
HOME FROM SCHOOL,
THEY CAN SEE WRESTING,
WHERE THEY'RE WATCHING
PEOPLE SMASHING EACH OTHER
OVER THE HEAD WITH CHAIRS.
SO THERE'S A WHOLE
ACCEPTANCE OF VIOLENCE
THAT IS VERY
DIFFERENT, I THINK.

Steve says YOU THINK THAT'S
DIFFERENT TODAY?

Bob says I THINK IT IS.

Steve says AND THE LEVEL, THE
SOPHISTICATION OF WEAPONRY
BEING BROUGHT BY STUDENTS
IS DIFFERENT AS WELL.

Richard says IS IT THE SAME
NUMBER OF CONFLICTS
BUT WITH MORE
SERIOUS GEAR,
IS THAT THE DEAL?

Mike says I THINK SO TOO,
AND WE'RE NOT AWARE
OF EVERY STUDENT WHO
BRINGS A GUN TO SCHOOL.
NOT EVERY STUDENT
IS DISCOVERED.
WHO KNOWS HOW MANY GUNS
ARE IN TORONTO SCHOOLS.

Steve says DO YOU NEED A METAL
DETECTOR AT DANFORTH TECH?

Bob says WELL I WOULD NOT BE HAPPY
WITH A METAL DETECTOR.
I WOULD FEEL VERY
UNCOMFORTABLE WITH ONE.
WE HAVEN'T HAD
ANY ISSUES.
I DON'T SEE WHY WE WOULD
GO TO THAT LEVEL YET.
WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY
SHOOTINGS REALLY.
WELL WE HAD THAT ONE
INCIDENT AT EMERY
JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO,
BUT THAT WAS OUTSIDE.
IT WAS OUTSIDERS.
IT WAS IN THE PARKING LOT.

Ruth says CAN I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION
ABOUT IS THERE MORE
VIOLENCE BY MOVING UP
TO THE JUNIOR SCHOOLS.
WHAT I HEAR AND
IT'S ANECDOTAL
IS JUST CONSTANT
BULLYING.
WHAT PARENTS HAVE
COMPLAINED TO ME ABOUT
IS NOT VIOLENCE,
BUT BULLYING.
AND BULLYING IS ONLY DEALT
WITH IF THERE ARE ADULTS
THERE TO HANDLE THOSE KIDS
AT AN EARLY AGE
AND DEAL WITH IT BEFORE
IT BECOMES VIOLENCE.
AND IF THE TEACHERS ARE
IN THE OFFICE COPYING OFF
THINGS BECAUSE THERE'S NO
LONGER A SCHOOL SECRETARY,
OR IF THERE ISN'T ANY
TEACHING ASSISTANT TO DEAL
WITH THE DIFFICULT
KID, THE BULLYING
IS NOT BEING DEALT WITH.
AS OUR FAMILY STRUCTURES
CHANGE AND MOMS ARE
WORKING, AND MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE ARE UNDER PRESSURE,
THE DEALING AND THE
FAMILY UPBRINGING
OF THE KIDS HAS CHANGED.
AND WE'RE SORT OF SAYING
TO THE SCHOOLS, LOOK,
I THINK WE FAILED AS A
SOCIETY IN BRINGING UP
A LOT OF OUR KIDS.
YOUR PROBLEM.
YOU DO IT.
AND THEN WE DON'T GIVE THEM
THE TOOLS TO DO IT AND NOW
WE'RE SAYING, DAMN IT,
YOU HAVEN'T DONE
IT WELL ENOUGH.
GET TOUGH.

Gina says WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT
THE WELFARE ISSUE,
I TALKED ABOUT THE
OPERATIONALIZATION OF
ANY TYPE OF A POLICY
THAT YOU BRING IN.
AND Mr. HARRIS HAS TO
UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU
BRING IN A POLICY SUCH
AS A CODE OF CONDUCT,
AS STRICT AS THIS
ONE'S GOING TO BE,
THERE HAS TO BE THE MONEY
THERE TO OPERATIONALIZE IT.
AND IF IT'S NOT THERE, THEN
WHAT'S THE GOOD OF THE POLICY?
THE POLICY ISN'T WORTH THE
PAPER IT'S WRITTEN ON.
SO I HAVE TO BELIEVE,
BECAUSE I AM A LITTLE
IDEALISTIC, THAT
IF YOUR GOING TO -

Richard says BECAUSE YOU'RE A
CONSERVATIVE.

(laughs)

Gina says AND BECAUSE I'M
A CONSERVATIVE,
I HAVE TO BELIEVE AND
IMPLORE THE PREMIER THAT
IF YOU'RE GOING TO BRING IN
THIS TYPE OF A POLICY,
YOU MUST HAVE THE MONEY
TO OPERATIONALIZE IT,
AND THERE'S ONE
OTHER THING.
WITH RESPECT TO RESPECT
AND RESPONSIBILITY,
THERE ARE THREE C'S THAT
WE OPERATE IN ONE
OF THE SCHOOLS WHERE
TWO OF MY CHILDREN GO.
THAT'S COMMUNICATION,
CO-OPERATION,
AND CONCILIATION.
WITHOUT THOSE THREE THINGS,
RESPECT AND RESPONSIBILITY,
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET
RESPECT AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Steve says TWO R'S PLUS THREE C'S
EQUALS A SOLUTION.

Gina says GOTTA HAVE
THOSE THREE C'S.
WELL, IT'S PART
OF A SOLUTION.
IT'S NOT THE
TOTAL SOLUTION.

Steve says I UNDERSTAND BUT THE
GOVERNMENT OBVIOUSLY THINKS
THIS IS A HUGE POLITICAL
WINNER BECAUSE THIS IS,
WITH ALL DUE
RESPECT TO THEM,
THE FOURTH TIME THEY
HAVE ANNOUNCED THIS.
DAVE JOHNSON, WHEN HE WAS
EDUCATION MINISTER
IN 1998 ANNOUNCED IT.
THEN Mr. HARRIS
BROUGHT IT OUT ONCE.
THEN Mr. HARRIS BROUGHT
IT OUT EARLIER THIS WEEK.
IT WAS IN THE BLUEPRINT IN
THE JUNE ELECTION AS WELL.
THAT'S FOUR TIMES.

Richard says AND IT DOES
GO TO MOTIVATION
A LITTLE BIT
HERE, STEVE.
AS RUTH SAID, THERE WERE
CODES OF CONDUCT WERE
PUT IN WHEN THE
NDP WERE IN.
EVERY SCHOOL BOARD IN THE
PROVINCE HAS A CODE OF CONDUCT.
PEOPLE LIKE BOB HAVE BEEN
ACHIEVING RESULTS WITH
CODES OF CONDUCT
AT DANFORTH TECH.
AND PART OF THIS IS, HE'S
PLAYING A LITTLE BIT ON
OUR FEAR OF THE VERY
QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED,
IS THERE MORE VIOLENCE
IN SCHOOLS TODAY?
ARE THERE MORE WEAPONS
IN SCHOOLS TODAY?
BY ANNOUNCING AND
RE-ANNOUNCING THIS THING,
SO WE WILL BE SEEN TO BE
BREATHING A LITTLE MORE
EASILY ABOUT HOW MIKE IS
SITTING - HE'S ON THE JOB
OF DOING THIS STUFF AND
WE THINK LESS ABOUT
THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE
COME FROM THE CHANGES
HE'S MADE IN EDUCATION
AND THE CUTS HE MADE.

Steve says LET ME GET MIKE
ON THIS.

Ruth says WE DON'T KNOW THAT
THERE'S MORE VIOLENCE.
WE JUST KNOW THAT THE
PREMIER KEEPS TELLING US
THERE'S MORE VIOLENCE AND
THEREFORE WE HAVE TO DO THINGS.

Steve says I WANT MIKE ON THAT;
YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
WHAT'S THE POLITICS
BEHIND THIS?
IS THIS MORE POLITICS
THAN THE ACTUAL THING?

Mike says YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE
HEAD AND I THINK
THE TORONTO STAR
EDITORIAL
SAID IT AS WELL.
WE'RE ALL VICTIMS OF THIS
PROPAGANDA MACHINE,
THE FACT THAT WE'RE DOING
THIS DISCUSSION ON IT.
IT HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED
BY JOHNSON, BY ECKER,
AND NOW AGAIN BY
HARRIS, AND REALLY
NOT TOO MUCH
HAS CHANGED.
WE GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE
DETAIL BUT THE LEGISLATION
STILL HASN'T
BEEN TABLED NOW.
I MEAN, LIKE I SAID,
IT IS WHAT IT IS,
AND WHAT GINA WAS SAYING
EARLIER, YOU KNOW,
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE
SUPPORTS IN PLACE.
AS A CODE OF CONDUCT, THIS
IS FINE IF YOU'RE OKAY
WITH THE PRINCIPLE THAT A
PRINCIPAL OR A TEACHER CAN
EXPEL OR SUSPEND A STUDENT.

Steve says JUST IN OUR LAST
MINUTE HERE,
I DON'T WANT TO BE ACCUSED
OF OVER DOING THIS,
BUT ARE YOU HEARING FROM
THE PARENTS THAT YOU
REPRESENT IN YOUR
CONSTITUENCY THAT THEY
ARE TERRIFIED ABOUT THE AMOUNT
OF VIOLENCE IN THEIR CLASSES?

Mike says I CAN TELL YOU AS THE
REPRESENTATIVE OF A HIGH
NEEDS AREA THAT I AS A
TRUSTEE AM CONCERNED AND
THAT MY PARENTS ARE VERY
CONCERNED ABOUT THE AMOUNT
OF VIOLENCE IN THE SCHOOLS
AND THAT THEY WANT
SOMETHING DONE AND THEY
WANT IT TO BE TOUGH.

Steve says WHAT ARE THE PARENTS
OF YOUR STUDENTS SAY?

Bob says WELL, THE PARENTS OF MY
STUDENTS ARE SAYING THAT
THEY WANT THE PRINCIPALS
AND THE SCHOOLS TO HAVE
THE RIGHT TO MAKE
THOSE PLACES SAFE,
TO MAKE THOSE PLACES
OPERATE PROPERLY.
BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S
GOING TO SUGGEST THAT
AN INDIVIDUAL HAVE THE
POWER TO MAKE ALL DECISIONS
WITHOUT APPEAL AND
WITHOUT HEARINGS.

Steve says UNDERSTOOD.

Bob says I DON'T WANT THOSE POWERS.
OKAY.

Steve says THAT'S OUR LAST WORD ON
THIS TOPIC BUT WE ARE NOT
DONE FOR THE DAY BECAUSE
A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO
WE SHOWED YOU THE UNVEILING OF
THE OFFICIAL PORTRAIT
OF FORMER PREMIER
DAVID PETERSON.
THIS WEEK
DIGNITARIES GATHERED
AT QUEEN'S PARK
ONCE AGAIN.
THIS TIME IT WAS BOB
RAE'S NEW PORTRAIT.
THAT WILL NOW BE HUNG
OUTSIDE THE CABINET OFFICE.
THE FORMER NDP LEADER WAS
PREMIER FROM 1990 TO 1995.
WATCH.

In a clip, Mike Harris stands behind a lectern. He wears a black suit, white shirt and red tie.

He says YOU GOVERNED THIS PROVINCE
DURING VERY CHALLENGING TIMES,
BOTH FOR ONTARIO AND
INDEED FOR THE COUNTRY
AS A WHOLE, AND I KNOW IT
WASN'T EASY BEING PREMIER.
SOME OF US, INCLUDING ME,
DIDN'T MAKE THAT JOB
ANY EASIER AT THE TIME.
BUT EVEN CRITICS WHO
DISAGREED WITH YOU WERE
UNITED IN THEIR RESPECT
FOR YOUR MOTIVE.

A woman stands next to a covered picture.

She says AND NOW, LADIES
AND GENTLEMEN,
WITHOUT ANY FURTHER DELAY,
I WOULD LIKE TO CALL ON
THE PREMIER TO JOIN ME IN
UNVEILING THE PORTRAIT
OF THE 21ST PREMIER
OF ONTARIO,
THE HONOURABLE
BOB RAE.

[applause]

Bob Rae approaches the picture. He is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short white hair. He wears a black suit, white shirt and red tie.
Then, they unveil the portrait. It shows Bob sitting in his office; he wears a blue trouser, white shirt and blue tie.

[applause]

Bob says Mr. PREMIER, LET ME FIRST
OF ALL THANK YOU FOR
YOUR VERY KIND WORDS.
I MUST CONFESS I FEEL A
LITTLE BIT LIKE TOM SAWYER
WHO DISCOVERED THAT HE HAD
TO BE THOUGHT TO BE DEAD
BEFORE ANYONE SAID
ANYTHING NICE ABOUT HIM.

[laughter]

He continues AND I WOULD COMPARE THIS
TO SOME KIND OF SIMILAR
EXPERIENCE WHICH I CAN -
THE ONLY THING I CAN SAY IS
THAT YOU WILL ALSO HAVE IT
AND I'M SURE YOU WILL
ENJOY IT AS MUCH
AS I HAVE.

[laughter]

The clip ends.

Back in studio, Steve says YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SO
MANY NEW DEMOCRATS -
PROBABLY AN UNPRECEDENTED
NUMBER OF NEW DEMOCRATS
THERE, CERTAINLY OVER
THE LAST FIVE YEARS,
AND ONE OF THEM, I
THINK BOB FRANKORD FROM
SCARBOROUGH, ONE OF YOUR
OLD CAUCUS MATES SAID,
WITH ALL THESE NDP-ERS
AROUND, LET'S START A COUP.

[laughter]

Ruth says BILL DAVIS AND
DAVID PETERSON.

Steve says THEY
WERE THERE.

Ruth continues WERE ALSO THERE.

Steve says YES, THERE
WERE ALSO THERE.

Ruth says SO IT WOULDN'T HAVE
BEEN UNANIMOUS.

Steve says IT WAS A VERY ECUMENICAL
EVENTS, YEAH,
INDEED, AND A
NICE PICTURE.
AND I SEE CASUAL
IS NOW IN.
THAT'S THE NEW THING.

Gina says VERY CASUAL.

Steve says PETERSON AND RAE,
BOTH JACKETLESS.
IT'S A NEW TREND.

Gina says HIS TIE WAS
DONE UP, NO?

Steve says YES.

Richard says WE LOOK FORWARD TO AN EARLY
HANGING OF THE PREMIER.

[laughter]

Steve says I THOUGHT YOU
MIGHT SAY THAT.
BOB GOODING FROM DANFORTH
TECH AND MIKE THOMAS,
SCARBOROUGH TRUSTEE.
THANKS TO THE BOTH OF YOU
FOR BEING HERE AND THE
THREE OF YOU, SEE
YOU NEXT WEEK.

Now, he looks at the camera and says AND THAT'S 4TH
READING FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
THANKS FOR WATCHING,
SO LONG, EVERYONE.

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Brett Ballah.

Editor, Paul Colbourne.

CEP-SCEP logo.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2000, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Show #190