Transcript: Show #186 "Double Trouble" | Feb 27, 2000

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

A clip shows students in a classroom.

Steve says THIS
WEEK ON 4TH READING,
DOUBLE TROUBLE.
MEGA MILLIONS FOR POST
SECONDARY STUDENTS.
IS IT ENOUGH TO
TAKE CARE
OF THE BOURGEONING
STUDENT ROLLS?

Steve, Ruth, Richard and Gina sit next to two guests around a table in the shape of a number 4.

Steve is in his mid-thirties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray jacket over a dark shirt.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN AND YOU'RE
WATCHING 4TH READING.
IT IS MANY A
PARENT'S DREAM,
WATCHING THEIR CHILD
WALK ACROSS A UNIVERSITY
OR COLLEGE PLATFORM TO GET
THAT COVETED DEGREE
OR DIPLOMA; BUT FOR
MANY ONTARIO STUDENTS,
THAT DREAM MAY
SEEM OUT OF REACH.
AN UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF
YOUNG PEOPLE ARE HEADED
FOR OUR INSTITUTIONS OF
HIGHER LEARNING AND SOON.
THIS WEEK THE ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT PLEDGED
660 MILLION DOLLARS TO HELP
THE SYSTEM COPE.
SOUNDS LIKE A LOT BUT
WILL IT BE ENOUGH?

A clip plays.

An old man says WELCOME TO OUR CAMPUS.
I AM REALLY PLEASED THAT
YOU'RE ALL HERE TODAY.

Steve says IT'S BILLED
AS A HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT.
THE PROVINCE WILL SPEND
660 MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD
WHAT IT CALLS THE EQUIVALENT
OF THREE NEW UNIVERSITIES
AND FOUR NEW
COLLEGES BY 2003.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Ernie Eves. Finance Minister."

Ernie stands behind a lectern. He’s in his sixties, clean-shaven with combed blond hair.

Ernie says THAT'S WHY IT GIVES ME
TREMENDOUS PRIDE TO ANNOUNCE
TODAY THE LARGEST
CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE
IN ONTARIO'S COLLEGES
AND UNIVERSITIES
IN MORE THAN A
QUARTER CENTURY.

The caption changes to "Claude Lajeunesse. Ryerson University." Claude is in his mid-fifties, clean-shaven with white hair. He’s wearing a dark blue sweater with a white logo printed on it.

Claude says THIS IS A DEFINING MOMENT
FOR RYERSON IN MY VIEW,
AND I WANT TO THANK
THE GOVERNMENT
AND THE MINISTRY FOR THEIR
COMMITMENT AND FORESIGHT
IN TAKING A
LONG-TERM VIEW.
THE IMPACT OF
THIS WILL BE FELT
ONLY A FEW YEARS
DOWN THE LINE.

The caption changes to "Rosario Marchese, MPP. NDP Education Critic." Rosario is in his forties, clean-shaven with receding black hair.

Rosario says WELL, IN FACT, A LOT OF
THE COLLEGES AND A FEW
UNIVERSITY REPRESENTATIVES
THAT WERE THERE LOVED IT,
BECAUSE WHENEVER THEY CAN
GET EXTRA MONEY FROM
THE GOVERNMENT, IT'S
SOMETHING THAT THEY PRAISE,
AND THEY PRAISED THEM.
SO IN THAT RESPECT
IT'S GOOD NEWS.
IT IS ONLY A PARTIAL
ANSWER TO
THE PROBLEM OF
ENROLLMENT.

Steve says A PROBLEM
OF ENROLLMENT BECAUSE
UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES
EXPECT TO SEE ALMOST
90, 000 MORE STUDENTS IN
THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

A Female Teacher says NOW THE NEXT TOPIC IS
ON SEXUAL REPRODUCTION
AND ANGIOSPERMS.

Steve says TAKE
THESE GRADE 9 STUDENTS.
THEY'LL BE GRADUATING
IN FOUR YEARS,
BUT BECAUSE OF CHANGES IN
THE HIGH SCHOOL CURRICULUM,
THEY WILL HAVE ONE LESS
YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL
THAN THE STUDENTS
AHEAD OF THEM.
THAT MEANS BOTH CLASSES
WILL GRADUATE AT THE
SAME TIME, THE SO-CALLED
DOUBLE COHORT.

The caption changes to "Dianne Cunningham. Colleges and Universities Minister." Dianne is in her late forties with short blond hair.

Diane says IT APPEARS ON THE SURFACE
THAT THIS MAY BE OKAY.
BUT WE STILL HAVE WORK TO
DO AND THE PREMIER
HAS ASKED OUR MINISTRY TO
REPORT BACK AT THE END
OF MARCH ON THE CAPACITY
OF OUR FACILITIES NOW,
AND WHAT WE MAY STILL BE
FURTHER PROJECTING
IN THE FUTURE.

At a classroom, another Female Teacher says AND I'M ASKING YOU
TO CALCULATE
THE EMPIRICAL FORMULA.

Steve says THOSE WHO
WORK AT UNIVERSITIES
AND COLLEGES SAY IT'S FINE
TO BUILD NEW BUILDINGS,
BUT THERE AREN'T ENOUGH
PEOPLE TO TEACH NEW STUDENTS.

The caption changes to "Deborah Flynn. Ontario Confed. of Universities Faculty Assoc." Deborah is in her mid-thirties with tied-up light brown hair.

Deborah says I THINK IF I WERE A
PARENT IN THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO AND I HAD
A 16- OR 17-YEAR-OLD,
I'D BE VERY AFRAID OF
WHAT THIS SYSTEM
HAS TO OFFER THEM
IN A FEW YEARS.
AND I THINK IF I
WERE 16 OR 17 MYSELF,
I WOULD BE VERY WORRIED ABOUT
THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION.

Steve says THIS WEEK'S
ANNOUNCEMENT ALSO SIGNALS
AN IMPORTANT SHIFT
IN POLICY FOR
THE PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT.
THESE STUDENTS AT THE ONTARIO
COLLEGE OF ART AND DESIGN,
THEY DIDN'T RECEIVE
ANY MONEY FROM THE TORIES.

Students paint and work by a table in a room.

The caption changes to "Catherine Henderson. Ontario College of Art and Design." Catherine is in her sixties with short white hair and bangs.

Catherine says WELL, I THINK DESIGN IS
THE VERY FOUNDATION
OF TECHNOLOGICAL
DEVELOPMENT AND CAREERS
IN DESIGN AND THE
CITY DEPEND ON IT.
I SUPPOSE IT'S NOT AN
ENGINEERING PROGRAM,
IF YOU LOOK AT IT THAT WAY;
AND CERTAINLY SUPERBUILD
IS FOCUSING ON ENGINEERING
AND TRADES AND JOBS AND
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY IN
A VERY TECHNICAL SENSE.

A Male Teacher says THAT BALL IT'S PICKING UP
COULD BE THE PARTS
TO A HARD DRIVE IN
A COMPUTER.

Steve says THE LION
SHARE OF THE ANNOUNCED
SPENDING IS GOING TO
SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
PROJECTS, SUCH
AS THIS ROBOT,
PROJECTS THE TORIES SAY
LEAD TO JOBS AND PRIVATE
INVESTMENT IN POST
SECONDARY EDUCATION.
THAT PRIVATE MONEY WILL
BE IMPORTANT BECAUSE
UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES
NEED IT TO FUND NEARLY
HALF THE COST OF THE
NEW CONSTRUCTION.
MONEY THEY'RE EXPECTED
TO RAISE ON THEIR OWN.

Dianne, Ernie and a group of people visit a room where a large robot is exhibited. Outside a building, a wall reads "Ryerson Polytechnic University."

Catherine says THERE'S A LOT OF
COMPETITION AMONG
COLLEAGUES IN OUR
UNIVERSITIES
AND COLLEGES FOR THAT
CORPORATE DOLLAR.
BUT MY COLLEAGUES IN
CORPORATIONS ARE
TELLING ME THERE'S A LOT OF
CORPORATE DONOR FATIGUE,
THAT THEY CAN'T BUILD
BUILDINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE
AND PUT INSTALLATIONS
IN ON EVERY CAMPUS.

The clip ends.

Steve says SO ARE WE GOING TO BE READY
ON TIME OR SHOULD WE
JUST SEND THE KIDS
BACKPACKING THROUGH EUROPE
FOR A YEAR UNTIL ONTARIO
GETS ITS ACT TOGETHER?
LET'S TALK TO TWO PEOPLE
CHARGED WITH MAKING
IT ALL HAPPEN.
ROBERT PRICHARD
IS HERE.
HE'S THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO.

Robert Prichard is in his fifties, clean-shaven with blond hair. He’s wearing a blue suit, white shirt and blue tie with white details.

Steve continues AND RICHARD
JOHNSTON IS HERE.
HE'S PRESIDENT OF
CENTENNIAL COLLEGE.

Richard Johnston is in his late fifties, with a gray moustache and gray hair. He wears a gray suit, white shirt and pattered blue and light brown tie.

Steve continues AND OUR QUEEN'S PARK
GANG, HERE THEY ARE,
FORMER NDP CABINET
MINISTER RUTH GRIER.

Ruth Grier is in her sixties, with short white hair. She’s wearing a green sweater over a white shirt.

Steve continues FROM THE OTTAWA LAW
FIRM FRASER MILNER,
RICHARD MAHONEY, A PAST
PRESIDENT OF THE ONTARIO
LIBERALS.

Richard Mahoney is in his forties, clean-shaven with gray hair. He’s wearing a dark blue jacket over a light shirt.

Steve continues AND FORMER TORY
POLICY ADVISER
AND LAWYER, GINA BRANNAN.

Gina Brannan is in her forties with shoulder-length blond hair. She wears a black sweater.

Steve continues WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.
Talking to Robert and Johnston, he continues YOU BOTH SHOULD BE SMILING
MORE THAN YOU ARE.
YOU GOT A LOT OF MONEY FROM
THE ONTARIO TAXPAYER THIS WEEK,
SO I ASSUME ON ONE
HAND YOU'RE VERY PLEASED.
BUT LET ME PUT THE
QUESTION ROSARIO MARCHESE
SUGGESTED IN OUR BACKGROUND
PIECE, WHICH IS,
SURE YOU'RE HAPPY TODAY,
BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH.
IS THAT RIGHT,
ROB PRICHARD?

The caption changes to "Robert Prichard. University of Toronto."

Robert says IT'S A VERY,
VERY GOOD START.
THIS IS THE LARGEST
INJECTION OF NEW CAPITAL
FUNDS IN THE UNIVERSITY
SYSTEM, COLLEGE SYSTEM,
IN OVER 30 YEARS.
IT COMES JUST IN TIME.
WE COULDN'T HAVE GONE ANY
LATER THAN THIS SPRING
TO GET THOSE FUNDS.
IT WILL MAKE A POWERFUL
DIFFERENCE TO THE ABILITY -
TO THE CAPACITY OF MOST
COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES
IN ONTARIO TO
RESPOND TO IT.
SO IT'S A GREAT START
AND IT WILL GIVE US,
I THINK, THE
CAPITAL FACILITIES.
IT'LL ADD ABOUT 55 - 57,000
PLACES IN OUR COLLEGES
AND UNIVERSITIES IN
TERMS OF NEW CAPITAL.
IT ALSO, THE UNIVERSITIES
AND COLLEGES
HAVE IDENTIFIED
ANOTHER 25 OR 30,000
THAT WE CAN GET
THROUGH RE-ORGANIZATION,
RENOVATION, REPAIR, SO
IT LOOKS AS THOUGH
IT'LL BE ENOUGH PLACES
IN TERMS OF SEATS.
THE NEXT CHALLENGE IS TO
MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH
PROFESSORS, ENOUGH STAFF,
ENOUGH PEOPLE TO DO THE JOB,
BUT BASICALLY THIS
IS A HUGE STEP
IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

Steve says HUGE STEP IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION, BUT AGAIN,
IS IT ENOUGH?
I THINK 57,000 PLACES
FOR STUDENTS HAVE BEEN
IDENTIFIED, BUT I'M HEARING
ESTIMATES THAT WE NEED
90,000 SPACES, SO WE'RE
ALMOST JUST A LITTLE
MORE THAN HALFWAY THERE.

The caption changes to "Robert Johnston. Centennial College."

Johnston says WELL, I THINK IT IS JUST -
I ECHO EVERYTHING ROB SAYS AND THEN GO ON FROM THAT,
TO SAY THAT PREDICTING WHAT
IT IS WE'RE GOING TO BE
FACING IN THE NEXT NUMBER
OF YEARS IS VERY DIFFICULT,
FORGETTING DOUBLE COHORT
AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
I THINK MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE ARE GOING
TO BE WANTING TO GET
POST SECONDARY,
NEEDING TO GET POST SECONDARY,
THAN EVER HAVE IN THE PAST,
AND WHETHER OR NOT
OUR TWO SYSTEMS HAVE
THE CAPACITY TO HELP
THEM AND GET THEM
TO SUCCEED IS ANOTHER
MATTER BECAUSE OF
THE OPERATIONAL PROBLEMS
WE'VE HAD IN TERMS
OF OPERATING DOLLARS.
AND SO MY SENSE IS THAT THIS IS
GREAT TO HAVE THE SPACES,
BUT WE'VE ALSO GOT
TO START RECOGNIZING
THE NEEDS THAT WE HAVE OUT
THERE IN TERMS OF THE
OPERATING COST TO DEAL WITH
CAN I JUST GIVE YOU
AN EXAMPLE FROM
OUR COLLEGE.
WHEN YOU HAVE OVER 80
DIFFERENT LANGUAGES SPOKEN.
EVERY NEW IMMIGRANT GROUP
THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE
GOES THROUGH OUR COLLEGE.

Steve says YOU'RE
IN SCARBOROUGH.

Johnston says IN SCARBOROUGH.
ONLY 40 PERCENT AND LESS OF
OUR COLLEGE IS MADE UP OF
HIGH SCHOOL LEAVERS,
DIRECT HIGH SCHOOL LEAVERS.
60 PERCENT PLUS ARE PEOPLE
COMING BACK TO A COLLEGE.
SO WE THINK THAT'S GOING
TO EXPAND EVEN FURTHER,
WE THINK THAT'S GOING TO GO
TO 70 PERCENT EVEN WITH THESE
NEW NUMBERS FOR HIGH
SCHOOL LEAVERS.
SO I'M NOT SURE WE'VE
ACTUALLY IN SOCIAL POLICY
TERMS GRAPPLED WITH THE
ENORMITY OF WHAT'S
COMING IN THE NEXT
10 TO 15 YEARS.

Steve says THAT'S WHAT
RICHARD JOHNSTON,
PRESIDENT OF CENTENNIAL
COLLEGE IS SAY,
RICHARD MAHONEY.
NOW, IF YOU WERE
RICHARD JOHNSTON,
THE FORMER NDP MEMBER FOR
SCARBOROUGH WEST, WAS IT?

Richard says SOMETIMES
PANELIST ON THIS PROGRAM.

Steve says SOMETIME PANELIST.
WHAT DO YOU THINK
HE'D BE SAYING TODAY
IF HE WERE IN A
DIFFERENT CAPACITY?

Richard says WELL, YOU'RE ASKING ME TO
MYSELF IN THE MIND OF
A NEW DEMOCRATIC, WHICH IS
ALWAYS DIFFICULT, AND SCARY.
[laughing]

Ruth says SCARY FOR NEW
DEMOCRATS, TOO.
[laughing]

Richard says I GUESS WHAT I WOULD THINK
THAT RICHARD WOULD SAY IS,
I THINK THIS IS ONE OF
THOSE DAYS WHERE THOSE OF US
WHO ARE ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE POLITICAL LEDGER
SAY, GOOD ON THE
GOVERNMENT.

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard continues THIS LOOKS LIKE AN
INTELLIGENT ANNOUNCEMENT.
THERE'S LOT OF
GOOD NEWS IN IT.
INCREASED FOCUS ON
EDUCATION MAKES SENSE.
THERE'S LOT OF GOOD NEWS
IN THE - GENERALLY
ON EDUCATION THESE DAYS.
POLITICIANS OF ALL LEVELS ARE
SAYING DOWN IN THE STATES.
WE'VE GOT TO SPEND
MORE ON EDUCATION.
GOTTA SPEND MORE
ON EDUCATION.
SO I THINK HE PROBABLY
MIGHT ALLOW HIMSELF,
RICHARD, AN ODD MOMENT OF
NON-PARTISAN AS TO SAY THAT.
HE WOULD ALSO BE QUICK TO
RAISE THE FLAGS THAT SOME
OTHER PEOPLE HAVE RAISED
ON THIS, WHICH IS,
GOOD ON THE INVESTMENT
IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES.
GOOD ON WORKING CARE
WITH THE UNIVERSITIES,
THAT ALL MAKES SENSE.
WHAT ABOUT THE MOVE
AWAY FROM ARTS?
WHAT HIGH TECH
COMPANIES NEED,
UNLIKE WHAT THE PREMIER
SUGGESTED IN THE LAST
FEW WEEKS, I THINK RATHER
UNFORTUNATELY WHEN
HE DUMPED ALL OVER
LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION,
YOU TALK TO ANY OF THESE
COMPANY EXECUTIVES,
WHAT THEY NEED IS PEOPLE
WHO CAN READ AND WHO
CAN WRITE AND HAVE LIFE SKILLS
AND THAT'S EXACTLY
WHAT AN ARTS
EDUCATION GIVES YOU.

Steve says CAN I PUT THE QUOTE?
OUR PREMIER SAID
THIS PAST WEEK,
He reads "WE SEEM TO BE GRADUATING
MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE GREAT
THINKERS BUT THEY KNOW
NOTHING ABOUT MATH OR
SCIENCE OR ENGINEERING
OR THE SKILLSETS
THAT ARE NEEDED."
DO YOU WANT TO
DEFEND THAT?

The caption changes to "Gina Brannan. Former PC Policy Advisor."

Gina says I CAN'T DEFEND THAT BECAUSE
WE NEED BOTH AS A SOCIETY.
IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY
SENSE TO SAY THAT ALL WE NEED
ARE PEOPLE WITH MATHS
AND SCIENCES AND ALL WE
NEED ARE THE ENGINEERS AND THE
DOCTORS AND THE LAWYERS.
WE ALSO NEED THE ARTS AND
THE HUMANITIES AND GOD
FORBID WE SHOULD EVER LOSE
THE LATIN AND THE GREEK
PROFESSORS THAT WE HAVE
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT
MAKES SOCIETY WHOLE.
I MEAN, WE CAN'T JUST BE
A WHOLE PILE OF PEOPLE
WORKING TOWARDS
THE SAME THING.
SOCIETY ISN'T
GOING TO WORK.

Steve says DOES THIS PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT UNDERSTAND THAT?
THAT THERE IS MORE TO
LIFE THAN JUST GOING
TO UNIVERSITY TO GET A JOB,
THAT THERE'S MORE TO IT.

Gina says I THINK WHAT THIS
PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT
HAS DONE, AND IT IS A GOOD
THING THAT THEY'VE DONE,
IS THEY TRIED TO BRING
EDUCATION BACK TO THE BASICS.
I MEAN, WE'VE DONE THE
WHOLE GAMUT FROM THE HALL
DENNIS REPORT, WHICH SOME
PEOPLE PROBABLY DON'T
EVEN REMEMBER, ALL THE WAY
AROUND NOW BACK TO
THE THREE R'S OF READING,
WRITING, AND ARITHMETIC.
AND I MEAN PART
OF THE PROBLEM IS,
IS THAT OVER THE YEARS THE
MATHS AND THE SCIENCES,
PARTICULARLY FOR WOMEN.
I MEAN, WE WERE ALWAYS
STEERED AWAY FROM
THOSE THINGS, SO
Mr. HARRIS IS SAYING,
WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK
TO THESE BASIC THINGS,
THE MATHS AND THE
SCIENCES AND WE'VE GOT
A TECHNOLOGICAL SOCIETY.
BUT...

Richard says HE'S SAYING, NOT
TOO MUCH GREAT THINKING.
HE'D NEVER BE ACCUSED
OF THAT HIMSELF.

Gina says BUT HE'S WRONG IN THAT
REGARD AND I MEAN
I'D SAY IT TO HIS
FACE THAT HE'S WRONG.
WE NEED THE GREAT
THINKERS BECAUSE -.

Steve says LET ME GET
RUTH ON THIS.
THERE IS A MUCH INCREASED
ROLE FOR CORPORATE ONTARIO
IN THE NUMBERS THAT HAVE
BEEN RELEASED THIS WEEK.
EVERYTHING FROM MONEY
THAT'S EXPECTED TO,
YOU KNOW, A MUCH MORE
ACTIVE ROLE IN DECIDING
WHAT KINDS OF
THINGS ARE TAUGHT.
IS THAT A GOOD THING?

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth says WELL, IT DEPENDS
HOW IT WORKS OUT.
I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED,
AND I'D BE INTERESTED
IN HEARING FROM OUR
GUESTS, THAT ALL OF
THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE
GOING TO BE OUT THERE,
ALL AT THE SAME TIME,
ALL FUNDRAISING.
SO I MEAN, USUALLY I THINK
UNIVERSITIES HAVE ALWAYS
RAISED FUNDS, BUT
THEY'VE OFTEN STAGGERED
THEIR CAMPAIGNS.
IF U OF T IS ON
A HUGE CAMPAIGN,
YORK OR RYERSON
MIGHT NOT DO IT.
SO I'D BE INTERESTED
IN HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.
AND OF COURSE, IF IN
FACT THE INFLUENCE ON
CURRICULUM IS CORPORATE,
THAT WOULD BOTHER ME.
BUT TO GO BACK TO
THE LIBERAL ARTS,
I THINK WE HAVE TO SOME
CONFIDENCE THAT
THE PRESIDENTS AND THE
ADMINISTRATORS OF
OUR INSTITUTIONS WILL ENSURE
THAT LIBERAL ARTS
ARE PART OF THE EDUCATION
IN THE SCIENCES
AND IN THE
TECHNICAL SCHOOLS.
AND I HOPE WHEN WE'VE SEEN
SOME SAD EXAMPLES LATELY
OF CORPORATE INFLUENCE ON
RESEARCH OR ATTEMPTED
PURPORTED INFLUENCE, THAT
THAT WILL BE RESISTED
BY OUR INSTITUTIONS.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU
THIS, ROB PRICHARD,
BECAUSE U OF T ARGUABLY IS
THE GREATEST LIBERAL ARTS
INSTITUTION, POST SECONDARY
INSTITUTION IN THIS COUNTRY.
YOU MIGHT SAY ON
THIS CONTINENT.

Robert says THIS PLANET.
[laughing]
THIS GALAXY.

Johnston says START
THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX.

Laughing, Steve says I'M SO INSIDE THE BOX
ON THIS KIND OF THING.

Ruth says YOU DID GIVE HIM
THE OPENING, STEVE.

Steve says YEAH, I DID, YEAH.
WHEN YOU HEARD WHAT
MIKE HARRIS SAID,
DID YOU PICK UP THE
PHONE AND SAY, HELLO.

Robert says I WROTE A PIECE RECENTLY
WHICH WE SENT OUT
TO 300,000 OF OUR
GRADUATES ABOUT WHAT CAN
THE UNIVERSITY DO BEST
FOR OUR GRADUATES.
IN MY VIEW, THE BEST
POSSIBLE THING WE CAN DO
FOR UNDERGRADUATES IS
GIVE THEM A RIGOROUS,
DEMANDING LIBERAL
EDUCATION.
AN EDUCATION THAT
INTRODUCES THEM
ABOUT HOW TO THINK.
THE MAJOR BODIES
OF THOUGHT,
THE MAJOR FORMS
OF ANALYSIS,
THAT HAS TO INCLUDE
SCIENTIFIC LITERACY,
NUMERICAL LITERACY, BUT IT
ALSO MEANS BEING ABLE
TO WRITE CLEARLY,
SPEAK CLEARLY,
BE ARTICULATE AND
CRITICAL AND I -

Steve says DO YOU THINK
THAT'S UNDER-APPRECIATED
BY OUR POLITICAL
LEADERS NOWADAYS?

Robert continues IF YOU LOOK
THROUGH HISTORY,
IT'S ALWAYS THE CASE THAT
THESE FUNDAMENTAL VALUES
ARE UNDER ATTACK FROM THE
FLAVOUR OF THE MONTH,
THE MOST RECENT FAD,
THE MOST RECENT DEMAND.
IT IS THE CASE IN ONTARIO
BEFORE THE RECENT
INITIATIVES BY
THE GOVERNMENT,
THERE WERE TOO FEW
PLACES FOR STUDENTS
IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING
AND COMPUTER.
THERE WERE TOO
FEW PLACES.
WE COULDN'T MOVE FAST
ENOUGH WITHOUT NEW RESOURCES.
THE GOVERNMENT GAVE US THE
RESOURCES WE ASKED FOR.
WE'VE DOUBLED THE
NUMBER OF PLACES.
THAT'S GOOD FOR
OUR STUDENTS.
IT'S GOOD FOR ONTARIO, AND
IT'S UTTERLY CONSISTENT
WITH MAINTAINING OUR
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS
IN A LIBERAL EDUCATION.
NO FUNDING PROGRAM WE WILL
ACCEPT FUNDS FROM WILL
MOVE US FROM OUR
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS
IN A LIBERAL EDUCATION.
BUT LIBERAL EDUCATION IS AS
IMPORTANT TO AN ENGINEER
AS IT IS TO A LAWYER, AS
IT IS TO A HUMANIST.
LIBERAL EDUCATION IS
THE FOUNDATION
OF WHAT OUR
UNIVERSITIES CAN DO.

Steve says BUT PRESUMABLY,
RICHARD JOHNSTON,
IF WE'RE GOING IN
THAT DIRECTION,
THAT'S GOOD FOR YOU AND THE
COMMUNITY COLLEGE MOVEMENT
BECAUSE THERE IS A DIRECT
JOB AT THE END OF THE DAY
AND A DIRECT CORPORATE LINK
USUALLY IN ALL OF THESE CASES.
YOU'RE GOING TO TAP
INTO THAT, I PRESUME.

Johnston says OH, YEAH, BUT I THINK
THERE'S A FALSE DICHOTOMY
BEING PUT OUT THERE AND
WHEN I LOOK AT THE PROFILE
OF THE NON-HIGH SCHOOL
LEAVERS COMING
TO THE COLLEGES, A LARGE
PERCENTAGE OF THOSE
ARE PEOPLE WITH B.A.'s WHO ARE
NOW COMING TO A COLLEGE
FOR A VERY SPECIFIC JOB
RELATED OR CAREER RELATED
KIND OF MOVE.
WE'RE ALSO, SINCE
THE MID-1990s,
A REAL EMPHASIS ON GENERAL
EDUCATION IN THE COLLEGES,
SO EVEN WHERE WE ARE
SPECIFICALLY CAREER
ORIENTED AND ALL
THAT KIND OF THING,
WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO
CONTEXTUALIZE THAT
EDUCATION AND TO BROADEN
IT BECAUSE WE KNOW,
JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY'S
GOING TO GO OUT AND BE
A GOOD MECHANIC, THEY
STILL HAVE TO BE ABLE
TO RELATE WELL TO PEOPLE.
THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
HOW TO WORK IN TEAMS
AND ALL SORT OF VERY
IMPORTANT THINGS.

Ruth says EMPLOYERS
WANT THAT, TOO.
THE KIND OF PERSON THAT ROB
AND RICHARD HAVE DESCRIBED
IS WHAT A CORPORATE
EMPLOYER WANTS,
SO WHEN THE PREMIER
SAID, SORT OF MAKES
THIS DISTINCTION BETWEEN
SCIENCE OR ARTS,
I THINK HE'S
MISGUIDED.

Richard says HE SKIPPED
SCIENCE CLASS.
I THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM,
AND ARTS CLASS, TOO.

Ruth says AND Mr. SILLY REALLY
DOESN'T GO INTO IT MUCH.

Richard says NO, HE NEEDS TO
READ MORE.

[laughing]

Ruth says OVER TO YOU, GINA.

Gina says MAYBE I'LL HAVE TO SIT DOWN
WITH Mr. HARRIS AND EXPLAIN
TO HIM HOW IMPORTANT IT IS
AND WHAT WE'RE DOING IN
OUR PRIMARY SCHOOLS AND
POST SECONDARY SCHOOL -
OR SECONDARY SCHOOLS,
PARDON ME,
TO TEACH CHILDREN HOW TO
THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.
AND I MEAN, WE HAVE TO
TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO LEARN.
AND THERE'S NOTHING
THAT IRRITATES ME MORE,
AND MY BEST EXAMPLE IS
THE MEDICAL STUDENTS.
YOU KNOW, THEY GO INTO
FIRST YEAR AND BY THIRD YEAR -
WE HAD ONE LIVE WITH US
FOR THREE YEARS.
THE YOUNG LADY'S
PERSONALITY HAD DISAPPEARED
BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T HAVE
ANY OF THE LIBERAL ARTS,
AND I THINK THAT'S
VERY IMPORTANT.
WHERE I WENT TO SCHOOL
AT YORK UNIVERSITY,
MY WHOLE FIRST YEAR WAS
LIBERAL ARTS AND I HAVE NEVER,
EVER REGRETTED THAT
BEFORE I ACTUALLY
CHOSE THE ROUTE THAT
I WAS GOING TO TAKE.

Robert says JUST TAKE THE
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO,
THE PROJECTS THAT WERE
FUNDED BY SUPERBUILD
WERE THE FIRST, SECOND, THIRD,
AND FOURTH PRIORITIES
THAT WE PUT IN FROM OUR
ACADEMIC PLANNING
OVER THE LAST
THREE YEARS.
WE PUT IN FIVE,
SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT.
WE ONLY GOT THE
FIRST FOUR FUNDED,
BUT IT WAS A SUBSTANTIAL
AMOUNT OF MONEY
FOR OUR TOP ACADEMIC
PRIORITIES DETERMINED BY US.
SO THIS DICHOTOMY IS
OVERSTATED AND I DON'T THINK
Mr. HARRIS WANTS
TO TRY TO RUN
THE UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO.
I THINK HE RESPECTS
THOSE OF US
THAT ARE CHARGED
WITH THAT.
I THINK THE EMPLOYERS SAY
EXACTLY WHAT RUTH SAYS,
THEY WANT RIGOROUSLY
EDUCATED PEOPLE
WITH A FULL RANGE
OF SKILLS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
TRYING TO DO.
FROM A DIFFERENT
PERSPECTIVE,
THAT'S WHERE THE COLLEGES
ARE COMING FROM.

Gina says PEOPLE WITH SKILLS
WHO ARE GREAT THINKERS.

Johnston says BUT THERE'S ONE OTHER KUDO
THAT HAS TO BE GIVEN.
I'VE GIVEN ADVICE
TO MINISTERS IN THE PAST
AND SAID TO THEM, LET'S
ESTABLISH CRITERION
FOR DECIDING WHERE SOME OF
THESE THINGS SHOULD GO.
PICK WINNERS AND LOSERS
AGAINST THOSE CRITERIA
AND NOT JUST DO
IT BY FORMULA.
AND THEY DID
THAT THIS TIME,
AND THOSE OF US WHO
WORKED HARD AT THAT GOT
THE KINDS OF PROJECTS
THROUGH THAT WE HAVE,
AND I THINK WE ARE
RESPONDING AS WE'RE BEING
ASKED TO WORK MORE AND
MORE TOGETHER, I THINK,
AS TWO SYSTEMS, TO A LOT OF
PRESSURE FROM THE CONSUMER,
THE STUDENT WHO IS
BASICALLY SAYING,
WE WANT YOU TO BREAK DOWN
SOME OF THESE BARRIERS.
YOU WANT TO MAKE IT EASY
TO GO BACK AND FORTH
AND I THINK THESE
PROJECTS, MANY OF THEM,
ALLOW US TO DO THAT.

Richard says I AGREE WITH ALL
THE POSITIVE STUFF.
IT IS THE BIGGEST
INVESTMENT IN 30 YEARS.
NO ONE IS MENTIONING
THAT THE BIGGEST CUTS
TO EDUCATION, BOTH POST
SECONDARY AND PUBLIC EDUCATION,
HAVE TAKEN BY
PLACE BY ANY GOVERNMENT
IN THE LAST 30 YEARS
HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN
THE FIRST FIVE YEARS OF
THIS GOVERNMENT.
SO, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE
SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF THAT,
MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION
MOVING FORWARD.

Gina says WE CAN ALSO TAKE NOTE
OF THE FACT, Mr. MAHONEY,
THAT SUPERBUILD, WHEN
MR. EVES WAS HERE,
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, KEEPING THE PROMISE.
WELL, THEY'VE MOVED
QUICKLY ON SUPERBUILD.
IT ISN'T JUST
ASPHALT AND GRAVEL.

Steve says I DO WANT TO ASK MORE
ABOUT MONEY, THOUGH,
BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE ALL
AROUND THIS TABLE SEEN
STUDIES THAT SAY THAT
JUST TO MAINTAIN WHAT
YOU CURRENTLY HAVE, 600
MILLION DOLLARS IS NECESSARY.
THAT'S THE POSTPONED
MAINTENANCE THAT YOU GOT
THE BILL FOR THAT YOU'RE
LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW.
FAIR ENOUGH, 660 MILLION'S
BEEN PONIED UP BY THE
PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT.
YOU WANT TO BUILD MORE
BUILDINGS BEFORE YOU
CAN TAKE CARE OF THE ONES
YOU'VE EVEN GOT RIGHT NOW?

Robert says STEVE, I THINK FIRST WE
WILL SEE MORE MONEY
FOR REPAIR AND MAINTENANCE
AND RENOVATION
OF OUR EXISTING
BUILDING.
IT ONLY MAKES SENSE TO
USE OUR EXISTING CAPITAL
STOCK EFFECTIVELY AS
WELL AS ADDING TO IT.
NUMBER TWO, Mr. EVES
AND Ms. CUNNINGHAM
HAVE ALREADY ANNOUNCED
IN SEPARATE PLACES,
THERE WILL BE ANOTHER
ROUND OF SUPERBUILD
FOR COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES.
SO THIS IS A VERY
SIGNIFICANT STEP.
THERE'LL BE ANOTHER ROUND,
I THINK, NEXT YEAR,
AND ANOTHER ROUND
THE YEAR AFTER,
AS THE PACKAGE
IS FINE TUNED,
AS FURTHER EXTENSIONS OF
THIS PACKAGE COMES OUT.
THE CAPITAL ISSUE, I
THINK, IS IN GOOD SHAPE.
NOT PERFECT YET, BUT
IS IN GOOD SHAPE.
THE REAL ISSUE IS THE ISSUE THAT
WAS REFERRED TO BEFORE,
HOW CAN WE GET OUT
NOW TO HIRE ENOUGH
OF THE NEW GENERATION OF
PROFESSORS AND TEACHERS
TO USE THESE BUILDINGS
EFFECTIVELY.
THE NORTH AMERICAN
MARKET IS GETTING
ENORMOUSLY COMPETITIVE.
WE FACE MAJOR RETIREMENTS
IN THE SYSTEM LOOKING FORWARD.
JUST AS THE BULGE OF
STUDENTS IS COMING.
AND OUR NEXT CHALLENGE IS TO
WORK WITH THE GOVERNMENT,
AS WE'RE ENDEAVOURING TO
DO, TO FIND COMMON GROUND
ABOUT HOW TO INVEST IN A NEW
GENERATION OF PROFESSORS.
HOW TO PROVIDE
SUPPORT FOR THEM.
HOW TO PROVIDE AN
INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THEIR
RESEARCH TO GET THEM
STARTED SO THEY'RE
EFFECTIVE RESEARCHERS
AND INNOVATORS.
THOSE ARE THE ISSUES FOR
THE NEXT 12 MONTHS
AS WE NOW - WITH THE
CAPITAL BEHIND US,
THE REAL - THE REAL ACTION
IN THE UNIVERSITY
IS WHERE THEY
COME TOGETHER.

Ruth says ONE OF THE POINTS WE
HAVEN'T MENTIONED WHEN
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
THE DOWN SIDES OF THIS
IS THE INCREDIBLE
INCREASES IN TUITION FEES.
AND I THINK THAT THAT
AFFECTS GRADUATE STUDENTS
AS MUCH AS UNDERGRADUATES.

Steve says WOULD YOU SAY SOME OF
THEM ARE LEGITIMATE, THOUGH?

Gina says OH, ABSOLUTELY.

Steve says YOU WOULD SAY THAT,
BUT WOULD YOU SAY IT?

Ruth says THE PEOPLE ARE COMING
OUT OF UNIVERSITY
WITH - AND WE'VE ALL
TALKED ABOUT THAT -
I SEE IT AS AN INHIBITOR TO
ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DO
THE GRADUATE STUDIES AND TO
PROVIDE THE BASIS FOR
THE STAFF THAT ARE GOING TO
BE NEEDED TO TEACH THESE
NEW STUDENTS WHO ARE COMING
IN, SO THAT THE SYSTEM
IS WORKING AGAINST
EACH OTHER.

Steve says COMMUNITY COLLEGES NOW ARE
CHARGING, IN SOME CASES,
10,000 DOLLARS FOR TUITION FOR
PROGRAMS THAT ARE GOING
TO GRADUATE YOU FOR ONE
OF THOSE GREAT JOBS
IN COMPUTER ANIMATION
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Johnston says SPECIALIZED JOBS WHERE
YOU KNOW YOU'VE GOT
A 99 PERCENT CHANCE OF GETTING
A JOB WHEN YOU COME OUT
AND IT STARTS, YOU KNOW, FROM
60,000 TO 70,000 DOLLARS, YEAH,
WE CHARGE A LOT FOR
THOSE, IT'S TRUE.
BUT THE GENERAL BILL
HAS BEEN TRANSFERRED
TO THE STUDENTS OVER THE
LAST PERIOD OF TIME.

Steve asks TOO MUCH OF IT?

Johnston replies WELL, FROM THE COLLEGE
PERSPECTIVE, I THINK SO.
AND AGAIN IF WE'RE
GOING TO UNIVERSALIZE
THE NOTION OF WHO NEEDS
POST SECONDARY, IF THAT BECOMES
MORE AND MORE, 70 PERCENT
RATHER THAN 40 PERCENT,
THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT HOW
THAT GETS FUNDED AND HOW
IT GETS SUPPORTED, I THINK
HAS TO CHANGE AS WELL.
AND THE DIFFICULTY I SEE,
WE'VE GONE SO FAR DOWN THE
OTHER ROAD AT THIS POINT,
IT'S GOING TO BE VERY HARD
TO TURN BACK FROM IT IN
TERMS OF HOW WE FINANCE IT.
BUT I JUST SAY THAT THE
QUALIFICATIONS WE REQUIRE
FOR OUR PROFESSORS AT THE
MOMENT ARE ALL PEOPLE
WHO HAVE TO BE HIS
GRADUATE STUDENTS NOW.
AND WE ALL NEED THEM
ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

Ruth says AND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD
TO GO TO GRADUATE SCHOOL,
YOU WON'T HAVE
THE PROFESSORS.

Johnston says THIS
IS A BIG ISSUE.

Steve says I HATE TO KEEP HARPING ON
MONEY HERE BUT IT OFTEN
DOES COME BACK TO MONEY;
AND ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT'S NEW ABOUT THIS
PROGRAM, I THINK,
IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT
HASN'T JUST SAID,
WE ARE ANNOUNCING X NUMBER
OF DOLLARS FLOWING TO
X INSTITUTION,
IT'S YOURS.
THEY HAVE SAID, IF YOU
DON'T RAISE X NUMBER
OF DOLLARS TO HELP
US OUT HERE,
YOU DON'T GET THE MONEY
FROM THE PROVINCIAL TAXPAYER.

Robert says FOR THE UNIVERSITIES,
THAT'S NOT NEW.
UNDER THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT FROM 1985 TO 1990,
THE RULE WAS, THE
UNIVERSITIES HAD TO PROVIDE
A THIRD OF THE COST OF A
BUILDING AND THE GOVERNMENT
WOULD PROVIDE TWO-THIRDS.
UNDER THE NDP GOVERNMENT,
FROM 1990 TO 1995,
TO THE EXTENT THERE
WERE CAPITAL FUNDS,
IN THE LATTER PART IT
GOT MORE DIFFICULT,
THE SAME TWO-THIRDS
ONE-THIRD RULE APPLIED.
THIS IS A 50-50 RULE IN
ROUGH TERMS AS OPPOSED TO
TWO-THIRDS ONE-THIRD, SO
I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN
ISSUE OF PRINCIPLE
THAT'S IN PLAY HERE.
IT'S A MODIFICATION OF IT,
BUT THE STRETCH IN TERMS
OF PUBLIC DOLLARS IS ALSO
LARGER THAN WE'VE EVER
HAD IN THE LAST 30 YEARS, SO
I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE -

Ruth says THERE'S A TWIST ON
THIS THAT IN FACT THE
UNIVERSITIES IN MAKING
THEIR APPLICATIONS FOR THIS
FUNDING SORT OF GUARANTEED
HOW MUCH THEY THOUGHT
THEY COULD RAISE, BUT WHAT
I FOUND INTERESTING
WAS THAT ALL OF THIS
MONEY, THE 660 MILLION DOLLARS,
HAS TO FLOW TO THE
UNIVERSITIES BEFORE
THE 31ST OF MARCH IN
THIS FISCAL YEAR.
SO IF YOU DON'T SPEND IT
FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS,
HOW MUCH INTEREST ARE
YOU GOING TO MAKE
ON THAT CAPITAL
MONEY THAT'S IN?

Robert says THEY CALCULATED
THAT, RUTH.

Robert says THEY REDUCED BY THAT
AMOUNT OF INTEREST -

[laughing]

Richard says WELL THEY'RE DOING THAT
BECAUSE THERE'S A YEAR END
COMING UP AND THEY'VE GOT
EXTRA REVENUES AND IF THEY
GET IT SPENT THIS YEAR,
IT WON'T GO TO SURPLUS
FOR NEXT YEAR.

Gina says MY BIG CONCERN FOR
THE UNIVERSITIES,
SITTING ON ONE OF OUR
HOSPITAL BOARDS IS,
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
ENVIRONMENT SCANS
THAT HAVE BEEN DONE ON
FUNDRAISING RIGHT NOW,
THERE IS SO MUCH OUT THERE
LOOKING FOR THE FUNDS
BECAUSE ON HOSPITAL
RESTRUCTURING,
WE'VE GOT CAPITAL PROJECTS
TO DEAL WITH THE SAME
AS THE UNIVERSITIES ARE NOW
GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL
IT'S GOING TO BE
DIFFICULT.

Johnston says ONE OR TWO UNIVERSITIES
HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER
OF ENDOWMENTS THAT I
WOULDN'T WANT TO TALK
ABOUT AT THIS TABLE.
I CAN'T REMEMBER RIGHT
OFFHAND BUT THIS -

Gina says HE SAYS IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

Gina laughs.

Johnston says BUT THIS IS
BRAND NEW FOR COLLEGES.
WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN SEEN AS
INSTRUMENTS OF GOVERNMENT
AND THEREFORE NOT
REALLY IN THE BALLPARK
FOR THAT KIND OF THING.
WE'VE ALL SORTS OF
CORPORATE PARTNERSHIPS
FOR DEEP DISCOUNTS,
FOR COORDINATING
THE EFFICACY OF
OUR PROGRAMS.

Gina says I THINK YOU'RE
BEST POSITIONED.

Johnston says BUT WE HAVE TO MOVE THOUGH
FROM THAT TO A NEW FORM
OF PARTNERSHIP WHICH
THEY'RE NOT USED TO,
AT THE SAME AS THEY'RE
BEING ASKED FOR ALL -

Robert says THE COLLEGES ARE
GOING TO DO A SUPER JOB.

Johnston says I THINK WE'RE
GOING TO BE FINE.

Robert says WE SAW WITH THE ONTARIO
STUDENT OPPORTUNITY AND
TRUST FUNDS, SOME COLLEGES
GOT GOING AND RAISED
REMARKABLE AMOUNTS OF
MONEY FOR THIS STUDENT
OPPORTUNITY TRUST FUND.
I THINK YOU'LL SEE THE
COLLEGES ARMED NOW WITH
THE MONEY ACTUALLY IN
HAND, NOT A POSSIBILITY.
THE MONEY'S GOING TO BE
IN RICHARD'S ACCOUNT.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THAT
IN THE COLLEGES' ACCOUNTS.
[laughing]
I THINK YOUR GOING TO SEE
IT BLOSSOM AND I THINK IT'S
GOING TO WORK OUT EXTREMELY
WELL AND THE COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES WILL BUILD NEW
RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEIR
GRADUATES, WITH THE
COMMUNITIES AROUND THEM.

Steve says TALK BRICKS AND
MORTAR, THOUGH,
BECAUSE THE ONE THING I'VE
HEARD POLITICIANS SAY,
AND IT REFERS TO
HOSPITALS.
IT'S, DON'T WORRY ABOUT
THE BRICKS AND THE MORTAR,
WORRY ABOUT THE
PROGRESS.
AND NOW, I THOUGHT THE
UNIVERSITIES OF THE FUTURE
WERE ALL GOING TO BE
VIRTUAL AND YOU DO ALL
THIS ON LINE AND THAT
MEANT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE
TO PUT UP MULTI-MILLION
DOLLAR BUILDINGS.
APPARENTLY NOT.

Johnston says BUT IN THE 4,500 NEW
STUDENTS THAT WE'RE SAYING
WE WILL ACCOMMODATE, ABOUT
900 OF THOSE ARE GOING
TO BE VIRTUAL STUDENTS.
THERE IS GOING TO BE A
DIFFERENT KIND OF MIX
IN THIS, BUT YOU STILL
NEED A PLACE TO FOCUS IT.
I LOOK AT OUR COLLEGE,
WHICH IS A BIT DIFFERENT
FROM ALL THE
OTHERS IN METRO,
IN THE SENSE THAT WE
HAVE A HUGE PROPORTION
OF OUR STUDENTS COME
FROM EAST TORONTO.
WE'RE MUCH LIKE AN
OLD COMMUNITY COLLEGE,
WHEREAS A LOT OF
OUR SPECIALIZATIONS
IN THE OTHER COLLEGES
HAS MADE IT SO THEY
COME FROM ALL OVER
THE COUNTRY.
SO MY SENSE IS THAT...

Robert says LEARNING IS
A CONTACT SPORT.

Johnston laughs.

Robert continues YOU'VE GOT TO GET STUDENTS
WITH OTHER STUDENTS,
WITH PROFESSORS.
THE VIRTUAL UNIVERSITY
ALLOWS US TO TAKE SOME
OF THAT FURTHER IN A
DISTANCE BUT THE ESSENTIAL
EXPERIENCE OF
COMING TOGETHER,
A MEETING OF THE MINDS,
IS IRREPLACEABLE AND
ALL AROUND THE WORLD WE'RE
SEEING MAJOR INVESTMENTS
IN THE CAPITAL
INFRASTRUCTURE TO MAKE THAT
CONTACT SPORT POSSIBLE.
THAT'S WHY IT'S GOOD
NEWS FOR ONTARIO.

Steve says SO IN THE LAST COUPLE
OF MINUTES HERE,
LET'S GO AROUND THE TABLE
AND SAY - I READ THIS PIECE
IN
THE TORONTO SUN
BY
CHRISTINA BLIZZARD WHO SAID
THAT ONE OF HER KIDS CAME
UP TO HER AND WHEN SHE
ASKED, ARE YOU INTERESTED
IN GOING TO COLLEGE
OR UNIVERSITY?
HE SAID, ARE YOU KIDDING?
I'M GOING TO GO TO EUROPE
BACKPACKING FOR A YEAR
'CAUSE THERE WON'T
BE A SPOT FOR ME.
HE WAS CONCERNED AND WE SAW
IN THE BACKGROUND PIECE,
CONCERNED ABOUT THE
QUALITY OF EDUCATION
WHEN IT COMES TIME.
SHOULD PEOPLE BE
CONCERNED?
SHOULD THEY GO TO EUROPE
BACKPACKING FOR A YEAR
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT
SURE THE SYSTEM WILL
BE ABLE TO COPE WITH
90,000 NEW ENTRANTS?

Robert says NO.
THEY SHOULD BE
WATCHING CAREFULLY.
THEY SHOULD BE MORE
OPTIMISTIC TODAY THAN
THEY WERE A WEEK AGO, BUT
ASK US BACK IN SIX MONTHS
AND WE'LL TELL YOU WHETHER
OR NOT TO GO TO EUROPE.

Steve says WELL, THAT'S AN
HONEST ANSWER.
OKAY, GO AHEAD.

Ruth says YES, OF COURSE, THEY SHOULD
GO TO EUROPE BACKPACKING
FOR THE YEAR BECAUSE THAT'S
AS GOOD A BEGINNING OF AN
EDUCATION THAT ANYBODY CAN
HAVE AND THEN WHEN THEY
COME BACK, WE HOPE THERE'LL
BE A PLACE FOR THEM.

Steve says SAYS SOMEONE WITH A
WONDERFUL IRISH ACCENT.
OKAY, GO AHEAD.

Richard says I THINK THE PROBLEM
WITH THE DOUBLE COHORT,
WHICH I THINK
IS A FUNNY NAME.
SOUNDS SORT TO
WEIRD AND KINKY.

Steve says EXTENDED ENROLMENT, I
THINK THEY LIKE TO CALL IT.

Richard says I MEAN PROBABLY A
GOOD IDEA
TO GET RID OF GRADE 13.
WE OBVIOUSLY OWE THOSE
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THAT
DOUBLE COHORT TO MAKE THE
KIND OF INVESTMENTS
THE GOVERNMENT'S
NOW MAKING.
I THINK ROB'S ADVICE
IS GOOD: STAY TUNED.
BUT IT LOOKS LIKE
PEOPLE ARE STARTING
TO MAKE THE RIGHT INVESTMENTS
IN PUBLIC EDUCATION.

Gina says BECAUSE I GET THE LAST
WORD, I HATE TO DITTO RUTH,
BUT ALSO TO SAY THAT I HAVE
A GREAT DEAL OF CONFIDENCE
IN THE LEADERS OF OUR
UNIVERSITIES AND COMMUNITY
COLLEGES THAT THEY WILL
ONE WAY OR ANOTHER
MAKE IT WORK.
ONLY CONCERN IS, HOW DO
WE COMPETE TO GET
THE PROFESSORS HERE
WHEN WE'RE COMPETING
WITH PLACES IN THE U.S.

Steve says I'M GOING TO TAKE MY LAST
20 SECONDS HERE AND ASK
ROB PRICHARD, YOUR TERM AS U
OF T PRESIDENT IS ALMOST UP.
WHAT ARE YOU
GOING TO DO NOW?

Robert says I'VE TAKEN A JOB STARTING
JULY THE 1ST TO TEACH LAW
AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY FOR A
YEAR AND THEN I'LL BE BACK
TO TEACH LAW AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO.

Steve says NO KIDDING,
YOU'RE MOVING TO BOSTON.

Robert says I'M MOVING TO
BOSTON FOR A YEAR.

Steve says WON'T BE ABLE TO WATCH
MARTY McSORLEY ANYMORE.
[laughing]
I THINK HE'S IN
A BIT OF TROUBLE.
RICHARD JOHNSTON,
ROB PRICHARD,
THANKS FOR MUCH
FOR BEING HERE.
APPRECIATE YOUR
VIEWS ON THIS TOPIC.
YOU THREE, SEE YOU
AGAIN NEXT WEEK.
AND THAT'S OUR
PROGRAM FOR THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
THANKS FOR WATCHING.

(music plays)

Music plays and the end credits roll, as Steve and the rest continue the conversation.

Queen's Park Bureau Chief, Susanna Kelley.

Producer, Bret Ballah.

Editor, Paul Colbourne.

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 2000, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Show #186 "Double Trouble"