Transcript: Show #93 "Distinct Society" | May 04, 1997

The opening sequence rolls.
In animation, the title "Fourth Reading" spins against a red background. Then, snippets from the current episode play.

(music plays)

Steve Paikin says THIS WEEK,
A UNITED CANADA?

A clip shows a woman in her fifties talking with the press.

She says WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT
CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES
IN ONTARIO.

A man in his fifties talks with the press.

He says Mr. HARRIS IS PLAYING INTO
THE SEPARATIST AGENDA.

A clip shows a group of politicians sitting around a large table.

Steve says WHERE WILL
PREMIER HARRIS SIT
AT THE NEXT
CONSTITUTIONAL TABLE?

Steve and 4 guests sit around a table in the shape of a number 4. A logo on screen reads "4th reading."

Steve is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a dark gray suit, over a striped green shirt.

Steve says GOOD AFTERNOON,
EVERYBODY.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN, AND
WELCOME TO ANOTHER EDITION
OF 4TH READING.
A DECADE AGO, CANADA'S
11 FIRST MINISTERS
SIGNED AN AGREEMENT WHICH
WOULD BECOME KNOWN
AS THE MEECH
LAKE ACCORD.
FOR A WHILE, THE
COUNTRY THOUGHT
IT HAD CONSTITUTIONAL
PEACE.
ONE OF OUR LEAST FAVOURITE
COTTAGE INDUSTRIES
COULD FINALLY BE RELEGATED
TO THE HISTORY BOOKS.
BUT, OF COURSE, THE
VICTORY WAS SHORT-LIVED,
AND ULTIMATELY MEECH
DIED WHEN NEWFOUNDLAND
AND MANITOBA FAILED
TO RATIFY IT.
TEN YEARS LATER
WE ARE NO CLOSER
TO SOLVING THIS PUZZLE.
IN FACT, IT SEEMS,
EVEN AS THE COUNTRY
GOES TO THE POLLS TO
CHOOSE A NEW NATIONAL
GOVERNMENT, WE DON'T
EVEN WANT TO TRY.
AND MOST OF OUR
POLITICAL LEADERS,
INCLUDING THE CURRENT
ONTARIO PREMIER,
SEEM TO WANT TO AVOID
THE ISSUE ALTOGETHER.

Several clips show politicians in the legislature.

Steve says JOHN
ROBARTS WAS THERE,
BILL DAVIS WAS THERE,
SO WAS DAVID PETERSON,
AND SO WAS BOB RAE.
SUCCESSIVE ONTARIO PREMIERS
HAVE TRADITIONALLY
SAT NEAR THE HEAD OF THE
CONSTITUTIONAL TABLE.
BUT PREMIER MIKE
HARRIS IS CONSPICUOUS
BY THE LOW
PROFILE HE'S KEPT
ON THE NATIONAL
UNITY PORTFOLIO.
HIS FIRST TENTATIVE FORAY
INTO THE NATIONAL UNITY
DEBATE WAS ON THE EVE OF
THE QUEBEC REFERENDUM.

A clip shows Mike Harris in the legislature.

He says …A DECISION TO UNRAVEL
THIS COUNTRY, CANADA,
WILL BE IRREVERSIBLE,
AND NO ONE SHOULD
UNDERESTIMATE THE COST
OF THAT UNRAVELLING.

A clip shows people rallying in the streets, waving flags.

A woman yells VOTE NO!

Steve says THE NEXT DAY,
HARRIS WAS ONE OF THE TENS
OF THOUSANDS OF
CANADIANS WHO RALLIED
FOR UNITY IN MONTREAL.
THE QUEBEC REFERENDUM
WAS WON BY THE NO SIDE,
BUT BY THE SLIMMEST
OF MARGINS.
BUT SHORTLY AFTER PEERING
OVER THE PRECIPICE,
PREMIER HARRIS STUNNED
POLITICAL OBSERVERS.
HE TOLD A WALL STREET
AUDIENCE THE CHANCE
OF QUEBEC SEPARATING
WAS ZERO.
PREMIER HARRIS'
APPROACH TO QUEBEC
HAS BEEN DECIDEDLY
NON-CONSTITUTIONAL.
HE HAS SOUGHT A MORE
COOPERATIVE RELATIONSHIP
ON THINGS SUCH AS
INTERPROVINCIAL TRADE.

A clip shows Mike Harris at a podium, talking to the public.

He says THE MOOD FOR A
RESTRUCTURED CANADA,
RESTRUCTURED IN
HOW WE OPERATE,
AND HOW WE FUNCTION,
VIS-A-VIS FEDERAL
AND PROVINCIAL POWERS,
MAY AT TIMES SURPASS
THE DEFINITION OF
SOVEREIGNTY ASSOCIATION
THEY TRIED TO SELL IN
THE LAST REFERENDUM.

A clip shows a man in his fifties walking into a building with a sign that reads "Faculty of Law." He is in his fifties, bald, with a gray full beard, and is wearing a stripped white shirt, and a purple flowery tie.
A caption reads "Jeff Rose. Former Advisor to Bob Rae."

Steve continues BUT THIS FORMER
CONSTITUTIONAL NEGOTIATOR
IS CONCERNED THAT PREMIER
HARRIS COULD BE PLAYING
RIGHT INTO THE
SEPARATISTS' AGENDA.

Jeff says Mr. HARRIS SAYS THERE'S
NO SERIOUS POSSIBILITY
OF QUEBEC LEAVING.
Mr. BOUCHARD SAYS IF QUEBEC
WERE TO LEAVE CANADA,
IT WOULD NOT BE A
SERIOUS PROBLEM.
Mr. HARRIS SAYS ALL
QUEBECERS CARE ABOUT
IS THE ECONOMY.
Mr. BOUCHARD SAYS THAT ALL
THAT THE REST OF CANADA
CARES ABOUT IS
THE ECONOMY.
Mr. HARRIS BELIEVES THAT
QUEBEC DOES NOT WANT
DISTINCT SOCIETY RECOGNITION
IN THE CONSTITUTION.
SEPARATISTS PICK THIS
KIND OF THINKING UP
AND CLAIM THAT MEANS THEY
HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE
BUT TO LEAVE CANADA.
IN ALL THREE RESPECTS,
Mr. HARRIS IS PLAYING
INTO THE
SEPARATISTS' AGENDA.

A clip shows a woman walking into an office. She is in her fifties, has short blond hair, and is wearing a black blazer, and glasses.

Steve says HARRIS' INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS MINISTER,
DIANE CUNNINGHAM, SAYS
ONTARIO'S APPROACH
TO NATIONAL UNITY,
WHILE NOT VISIBLE,
HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE.

Diane says WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT
CONSTITUTIONAL
CHANGES IN ONTARIO.
WE HAVE ENOUGH WORK TO
DO IN NON-CONSTITUTIONAL
GAINS AROUND THE ROLES
AND RESPONSIBILITIES
OF ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT,
THE OVERLAP IN DUPLICATION,
AND THE CHALLENGE OF THE
UNILATERAL DECISION MAKING
AROUND THE SPENDING POWER
OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

A clip shows Brian Mulroney giving a speech.

He says I WILL BE ASKING CANADIANS
TO GIVE THE LIBERAL PARTY
A NEW MANDATE TO
BUILD ON THE RECORD
OF THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

Steve says BUT EVENTS ON
THE FEDERAL SCENE COULD
OVERTAKE PREMIER HARRIS'
LOW KEY APPROACH
TO NATIONAL UNITY.
IN A RECENT
SPEECH IN TORONTO,
FORMER PRIME MINISTER
BRIAN MULRONEY,
PRACTICALLY GUARANTEED IT
WOULD BE AN ISSUE
DURING THE FEDERAL
CAMPAIGN.

A clip shows Brian Mulroney at a podium, talking to an audience.

He says PROVISIONS OF
MEECH, ARE TODAY,
ALMOST ALL IN EFFECT.
NOT CONSTITUTIONALIZED,
BUT IN EFFECT.

A clip shows Preston Manning talking with the press.

He says WE ARE PREPARED TO
STATE OUR POSITION,
AND TO CAMPAIGN ON IT.

Steve says AND WITH PRESTON
MANNING VOWING TO PRESS
FOR A NEW NATIONAL
UNITY ARRANGEMENT,
SOME SAY IT LEAVES
VERY LITTLE ROOM
FOR PREMIER HARRIS TO
MAINTAIN THE LOW PROFILE
HE'S KEPT SO FAR
ON THIS ISSUE.

Back in the studio Steve and his guests sit at the table.

Steve says NOW, IN A MOMENT WE'LL
TALK TO ONE OF THE FIRST
MINISTERS WHO PUT HIS
SIGNATURE ON THE MEECH LAKE
ACCORD FOR THE
PROVINCE OF MANITOBA,
HOWARD PAWLEY.

Howard Pawley is in his sixties, clean-shaven, balding with very short white hair, and is wearing a black suit, pale blue shirt, and patterned red and blue tie.

Steve continues FIRST, THOUGH, A
CONVERSATION WITH ANOTHER
FORMER FIRST MINISTER,
DAVID PETERSON,
ONTARIO'S PREMIER
FROM 1985 TO 1990,
ON THE ROLE ONTARIO'S
CURRENT FIRST MINISTER
SHOULD BE PLAYING.

A clip shows Steve sitting in a room with David Peterson. David is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short white hair, and is wearing a brown suit, white shirt, and spotted yellow tie.

Steve says PREMIER, WE SIT HERE TEN
YEARS AFTER YOU AND
TEN OTHER FIRST MINISTERS
MADE AN AGREEMENT
AT THE LANGEVIN BLOCK
ON NATIONAL UNITY.
IN THE LAST ELECTION
CAMPAIGN IN '93,
NOT MUCH TALK ABOUT
NATIONAL UNITY,
AND BY ALL INDICATIONS, IT
LOOKS LIKE THE MAJOR PARTY
LEADERS DON'T WANT TO
TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT IT
THIS TIME, TOO.
IS THAT ACTUALLY
WISE?

David says WELL, I SUSPECT THE ISSUE
IS GOING TO COME UP.
IS IT WISE OR NOT TO
DISCUSS THE SPECIFICS OF A,
SHALL WE SAY, A NEW
CONSTITUTIONAL PACKAGE?
IT'S PRETTY SUPERCHARGED.
IT'S A VERY TOUGH ISSUE.
THE GRAVEYARD IS LITTERED
WITH BODIES THAT HAVE TRIED
TO SOLVE THESE
KINDS OF PROBLEMS
OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS.
BUT I THINK IT WILL BE
AN ISSUE, IMPLICITLY,
IF NOT EXPLICITLY, IN
THE SENSE THERE'S STILL
A LOT OF ANGST AROUND THE
ISSUE IN SOME QUARTERS.
PEOPLE WILL BE LOOKING AT
IT AND SAY WHO MAYBE
HAS THE BEST CAPACITY
TO SOLVE THESE ISSUES?
YOU KNOW, AT THE
END OF THE DAY,
IF YOU LOOK AT THE
HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY,
THE CAPACITY TO KEEP THE
COUNTRY TOGETHER
HAS BEEN PERHAPS THE MOST
IMPORTANT RESPONSIBILITY
OF THE PRIME MINISTER.

Steve asks OTHER THAN SAYING HE'S
OPPOSED TO DISTINCT SOCIETY,
AND THAT THAT
PHRASE IS DEAD,
AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED,
I DON'T KNOW THAT
MIKE HARRIS HAS HAD A
GREAT DEAL TO SAY
ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
IS THAT A MISTAKE?

David says WELL, AT THE
END OF THE DAY,
THE PREMIER OF ONTARIO
IS ARGUABLY THE SECOND
OR THIRD MOST IMPORTANT
PLAYER IN THIS DISCUSSION.

Steve says BEHIND THE
PRIME MINISTER.

David says AND THE PREMIER OF QUEBEC
AND THOSE RELATIONSHIPS
ARE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
LET'S SAY SECOND OR THIRD
FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT.
SO HE HAS TO BE THERE.
NOTHING WILL HAPPEN
WITHOUT HIS APPROVAL.
THEN IT BECOMES A TACTICAL
AND STRATEGIC QUESTION
OF HOW HE PLAYS THOSE
CARDS, AND HOW HE USES
THE GOOD OFFICE TO KEEP
THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER.
I MEAN, WE HAVE A VERY
STRONG VESTED INTEREST
IN KEEPING THIS
COUNTRY TOGETHER
FROM ONTARIO'S
POINT OF VIEW.
BOTH FROM AN ECONOMIC VIEW,
AND MANY OTHER POINTS
OF VIEW AS WELL.
SO IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT
DOSSIER, STEVE.
IT'S STEEPED IN HISTORY,
IT'S STEEPED IN LAW,
IT'S STEEPED
IN POLITICS.
IT'S SOMETHING I BARKED
MY SHINS ON FOR 30 YEARS.
WHEN I WAS IN LAW SCHOOL,
I WAS INVOLVED
IN MAKING PRESENTATIONS
TO THE B and B COMMISSIONS
AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

Steve says YOU EMBRACED THE PORTFOLIO,
HE HAS APPEARED TO AVOID IT.
NOW, YOU EMBRACED
IT AND PAID FOR IT,
HE DOES NOT HAVE THE
SCARS ON HIS SHINS
BY AVOIDING IT.
WHO'S SMARTER?

David says IN SOME WAYS IT'S
EASIER TO AVOID,
BUT AT THE SAME TIME,
IT CANNOT BE AVOIDED
AT THE END
OF THE DAY.
I KNOW MICHAEL
HARRIS WELL.
I SAT IN THE
HOUSE WITH HIM.
I BELIEVE HE IS A
FUNDAMENTALLY DECENT PERSON.
I BELIEVE HE FUNDAMENTALLY
WANTS THIS COUNTRY TO THRIVE.
I BELIEVE HE WILL
STEP UP TO THE MARK
AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
HE MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT
VIEW OF THE TIMING AND
THE STRATEGY AND THE
POLITICS OF IT THAN I WOULD,
BUT I THINK THAT
HE WILL BE THERE
AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
HE IS SURROUNDING HIMSELF
WITH SOME PEOPLE
THAT UNDERSTAND THE
ISSUE, UNDERSTAND
THE LEADERSHIP THAT'S
GOING TO BE REQUIRED.
THIS IS NOT EASY.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO
TAKE THE SAFE ROUTE,
KEEP UNDERGROUND
ON THIS ONE.
BUT FOR THE SAKE
OF THE COUNTRY,
YOU'VE GOT TO STICK YOUR
HEAD UP ON THIS AT SOME POINT.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT BRIAN
MULRONEY, WHO WAS IN TOWN,
YOU WERE THERE AT
THE LUNCHEON WHERE
HE GAVE THE SPEECH.
HE SAID I CAME UP WITH
THREE AGREEMENTS
FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE
THAT WERE EMBRACED
UNANIMOUSLY BY FIRST
MINISTERS IN THE COUNTRY.
AND PEOPLE
DIDN'T GO FOR IT.
AND NOW PRIME MINISTER
CHRETIEN IS GOING FOR MORE
ADMINISTRATIVE AS OPPOSED
TO CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES,
SAYING WE CAN BRING
QUEBEC IN THROUGH DEALS.
IS HE RIGHT?

David says WELL, I THINK PROBABLY
AT THE END OF THE DAY,
SOME OF THIS IS
GOING TO HAVE TO BE
CONSTITUTIONALIZED.
AND THERE'S ONLY
ONE REASON FOR THAT.
QUEBEC IS NOT A SIGNATORY
TO THE CONSTITUTION.
AND THAT IS, FROM
QUEBEC'S POINT OF VIEW,
A VERY MAJOR
STICKING POINT.
IT IS A RALLYING POINT
FOR THE SEPARATISTS,
AND THE SOFT NATIONALISTS
THAT TEND TO RUN THAT WAY.
NOW, YOU CAN SAY THAT'S
WRONG, THAT'S CRAZY,
THEY ALL VIEW THIS
THING THE WRONG WAY.
YOU CAN SAY THAT,
BUT YOU RUN THE RISK,
IF YOU SAY THAT, THEY
HAVE THE CAPACITY
TO TAKE THEMSELVES
OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
THEY WILL SUFFER, OF COURSE
THEY'LL SUFFER FOR IT.
WE'LL ALL SUFFER FOR IT.
BUT IF ONE IS SENSITIVE
TO QUEBEC HISTORY,
TO QUEBEC ASPIRATIONS THEN
YOU REALIZE THIS ISSUE
HAS BEEN AT THE ROOT OF
THIS DISCOMFITURE.
AND IF WE CAN FIND A
MODERATE PREMIER THERE,
AND IT'S NOT GOING TO
BE LUCIEN BOUCHARD.
HE WANTS TO DESTROY
THE COUNTRY.
LUCIEN BOUCHARD IS HAPPIER
THE MORE REFORMERS
THAT ARE ELECTED SO THEY
CAN RAIL AT EACH OTHER.
BUT LET'S SAY WE'RE
MODERATE IN THOUGHT
FOR PEOPLE.
IF WE CAN FIND SOMEONE
TO MAKE THAT KIND
OF ACCOMMODATION, AND
THE LEADERSHIP THAT
UNDERSTANDS THE PRICE
OF NOT DOING IT,
THEN I DON'T THINK
THIS IS A DEAD ISSUE.
I THINK AFTER THIS
ELECTION, PRESUMABLY,
IF THINGS SETTLE DOWN, I THINK
WE HAVE THE POSSIBILITY
OF GATHERING UP THE
POLITICAL LEADERSHIP
TO SOLVE IT.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU ONE LAST
THING AND THAT IS ABOUT
THE TORCH THAT, LET'S
SAY JOHN ROBARTS HELD
IN HIS HAND, PASSED ON TO
BILL DAVIS, PASSED TO YOU,
PASSED TO BOB RAE, ALL OF
YOU PROVED YOUR BONA FIDES
ON THE NATIONAL
UNITY ISSUE.
CAN MIKE HARRIS GRAB THAT
TORCH AND RUN WITH IT?

David says YOU KNOW WHAT'S
REMARKABLE ABOUT POLITICS
IS YOU NEVER KNOW WHO'S GOING
TO STEP UP TO THE MARK
AND THERE ARE EXTRAORDINARY
ACTS COMMITTED.
IT'S TOO BIG AN
ISSUE FOR HIM NOT TO.
YOU SEE, I SAID BEFORE, I
DON'T BELIEVE MICHAEL
IS FUNDAMENTALLY
OPPOSED TO QUEBEC.
HE'S NOT A
NASTY PERSON.
HE DOESN'T HAVE
THOSE INSTINCTS.
HE'S A MAN OF
STRONG VIEWS.
BUT I BELIEVE HIS BETTER
INSTINCTS WILL PREVAIL.
I BELIEVE HE WILL COME TO
THE CONCLUSION
THAT HE HAS A LEADERSHIP
ROLE, AND I BELIEVE
HE'LL STEP UP TO THE MARK.
AND THERE'LL BE LOTS OF
US THERE TO HELP HIM
IF HE ASKS FOR
THAT HELP.

Steve says THANK YOU FOR
YOUR TIME.

David says PLEASURE.

Back in the studio Steve sits at the table.

He says FORMER ONTARIO PREMIER
DAVID PETERSON.
AND NOW, AS
PROMISED EARLIER,
ANOTHER WAR HORSE FROM THE
CONSTITUTIONAL BATTLES
OF A DECADE AGO,
HERE'S FORMER MANITOBA
PREMIER HOWARD PAWLEY,
NOW A PROFESSOR
AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF WINDSOR.
PREMIER PAWLEY, IT'S
AWFULLY GOOD OF YOU
TO SPEND SOME TIME.
WE APPRECIATE IT.

Howard says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Steve says YOU KNOW
OUR GANG HERE.
SHALL I INTRODUCE
THEM LEFT TO RIGHT?
NO, I GUESS
RIGHT TO LEFT.
HERE WE GO, GEOGRAPHICALLY
AND POLITICALLY.
HUGH SEGAL, LONG TIME
CONSERVATIVE PARTY ADVISOR,
IN PARTICULAR A SENIOR
CONSTITUTIONAL ADVISOR
TO PREMIER HARRIS.

Hugh Segal is in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short side parted brown hair, and is wearing a dark gray suit, striped white shirt, and patterned brown tie.

Steve continues RICHARD MAHONEY FROM THE
OTTAWA LAW FIRM FRASER
AND BEATTY, FORMER
PARTY PRESIDENT
FOR THE ONTARIO LIBERALS.

Richard Mahoney is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair, and is wearing a black suit, striped blue shirt, and flowery tie.

Steve continues AND FORMER NDP CABINET
MINISTER RUTH GRIER.

Ruth Grier is in her seventies, has short white hair, and is wearing an orange blazer over a spotted black blouse.

Steve says LET'S GET TO THIS.
SHOULD NATIONAL UNITY BE
A SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION
IN THIS CURRENT FEDERAL
ELECTION CAMPAIGN;
WHAT DO YOU THINK?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Howard Pawley. Former Manitoba Premier."

Howard says WELL, FIRST I THINK IT IS
IMPORTANT THAT WE TALK
ABOUT OUR VISION
FOR CANADA.
AND IF WE SPEAK WITH A MIND
AS TO WHAT THAT VISION IS,
A SENSE OF PURPOSE,
YES, IT OUGHT TO BE.
BUT THERE IS A
CUTTING SIDE TO THIS.
IF THE UNITY ISSUE
BECOMES A QUESTION DURING
THIS CAMPAIGN,
UNFORTUNATELY IT'S GOING TO
REVOLVE AROUND THE WORDS
"DISTINCT SOCIETY."
AND LET ME TELL YOU,
STEVE, IN WESTERN CANADA,
AT LEAST, IT'S
A BIG LOSER.
AND PRESTON MANNING
IS WAITING FOR
THE OPPORTUNITY TO
PRESS THAT BUTTON.
AND WHEN PRESTON MANNING
PRESSES THAT BUTTON,
IT WORKS TO THE ADVANTAGE
OF THE BLOC QUEBECOIS
IN THE PROVINCE
OF QUEBEC.

Steve says IT'S APPARENTLY A BIG
LOSER FOR THE PREMIER
OF ONTARIO, TOO.

Howard says YES, BECAUSE THE PREMIER
OF ONTARIO DOES HAVE
A BASE OF SUPPORT
WHICH INVOLVES
CONSERVATIVE AND REFORM
PARTY SUPPORTERS.
SO IT'S A DEADLY
ISSUE, I CAN SEE
FOR THE CONSERVATIVES
IN ONTARIO TO COMMENT
DURING AN ELECTION
CAMPAIGN.
SO I THINK REFORM AND
BLOC WOULD FEED UPON
EACH OTHER, WOULD
BENEFIT FROM THIS,
AND VERY LITTLE WOULD BE
ACCOMPLISHED BY WAY
OF MOVING THE COUNTRY TOWARDS
A MORE UNITED FRONT.

Steve asks WOULD YOU AGREE THAT
PREMIER HARRIS HAS NOT TAKEN
A VERY PROMINENT ROLE
ON THIS ISSUE SO FAR?
AND IF YOU DO
AGREE WITH THAT,
DO YOU THINK
THAT'S A MISTAKE?

Howard says WELL, I THINK THE
DIFFICULTY IS,
IF ONE COMPARES
1997 WITH 1987,
'87 THERE WAS A
WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY.
THERE WAS A DIFFERENT
MOOD IN THE LAND.
THERE WAS A MORE
GENEROUS ATTITUDE.

Steve says THERE WASN'T A
SEPARATIST PREMIER
OF QUEBEC EITHER.

Howard says THAT'S RIGHT.
IN '97, IT'S MUCH
MORE UNACCOMMODATING.
SO MY VIEW IS WE HAVE TO FIND
THAT SENSE OF PURPOSE.
AND THE SENSE OF PURPOSE
MAY VERY WELL BE ACHIEVED
WITHOUT RE-ENGAGING
OURSELVES IN AN ENDLESS
CONSTITUTIONAL WRANGLE.

Steve says HUGH, YOU HEARD MY QUESTION
TO DAVID PETERSON ABOUT
GRABBING THAT TORCH THAT
STARTS WITH ROBARTS AND
COMES ON DOWN THE LINE,
AND THERE ARE LEGITIMATE
QUESTIONS OUT THERE ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT MIKE HARRIS
IS PREPARED TO GRAB THAT
TORCH AND RUN WITH IT.
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON THAT?

The caption changes to "Hugh Segal. Progressive Conservative Advisor."

Hugh says WELL, I THINK HE ACTUALLY
HAS GRABBED THE TORCH.
BUT I THINK HE'S CARRYING
IT IN VERY DIFFERENT
TIMES, AND VERY DIFFERENT
ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS
THAN WHEN Mr.
PETERSON, OR Mr. DAVIS,
FOR THAT MATTER,
WERE PREMIER.
ON THE ISSUE OF THE
ROLE ONTARIO CAN PLAY,
I THINK THAT IN THE
END, Mr. PETERSON
IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
ONTARIO HAS TO BE
PART OF THE SOLUTION.
AND THERE IS NO QUESTION IN
MY MIND, THAT MIKE HARRIS,
WHO VOTED FOR MEECH LAKE,
AND FOR THE CHARLOTTETOWN
ACCORD, AS LEADER OF
AN OPPOSITION PARTY,
WITH THE REST OF THE
LEGISLATURE ON SEVERAL
OCCASIONS, IS DEVOTED
TO BEING PART
OF THAT SOLUTION.
I DON'T THINK, HOWEVER, HE
IS CONVINCED THAT BEING WED
TO THE PRECISE WORDING
THAT MAY HAVE WORKED
IN A DIFFERENT TIME
IS THE BEST WAY
TO ADVANCE THE SOLUTION.
THAT, IN FACT, WE SHOULD
PERHAPS UNDERSTAND
THE PRINCIPLE THAT
WITHIN A REBALANCING
THE FEDERATION, THERE WILL
HAVE TO BE SOME RECOGNITION
OF QUEBEC'S UNIQUENESS AS
THE FUNDAMENTAL BASE
FOR FRANCOPHONE CANADA.

Steve asks WHY DOESN'T
HE SPEAK TO THAT?

Hugh says I THINK HE ACTUALLY
HAS, IF I MAY SAY SO.
I THINK HE HAS MADE A
DISTINCTION BETWEEN
THE WORDS, "DISTINCT SOCIETY,"
WHICH IS A DOG THAT
DOESN'T HUNT ANYMORE,
VERY EFFECTIVELY,
AND THE NOTION OF
SOME RECOGNITION
OF PARTICULARITY WITHIN A
FRAMEWORK OF RECOGNIZING
OTHER FUNDAMENTAL PARTS
OF OUR FEDERAL CONTEXT.
AND I DON'T THINK HE SHOULD
NECESSARILY BE OUT FRONT
TODAY LAYING OUT A
SERIES OF POSITIONS
THAT SEPARATISTS AND
OTHERS CAN USE.
I THINK HE HAS TO BE
BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS,
WHICH HE IS HE DOING
WITH OTHER PREMIERS
IN A CONSTRUCTIVE FASHION.
THE GOVERNMENT COMMISSIONED
SOME VERY INTERESTING
PAPERS ON SOCIAL POLICY
ISSUES FOR THE LAST
PREMIER'S CONFERENCE
WITH TOM KURSHANE.
IN TERMS OF HOW WE CAN
HAVE GREATER PARTNERSHIP
ON SOCIAL POLICY.
IT'S THE MOST SUBSTANTIVE
CONTRIBUTION THAT
ANY PROVINCE HAS MADE
TO THE DEBATE.
IT MAY NOT BE THE
RIGHT ROUTE TO GO,
BUT IT'S PRODUCING A
CONSTRUCTIVE DEBATE.
I THINK HIS INTEREST IS
VERY CONSTRUCTIVE
AND VERY POSITIVE.

Steve says RICHARD, I DON'T
KNOW IF YOU SAW JEFF
SIMPSON'S COLUMN IN
THE GLOBE AND MAIL,
BUT HE QUOTES,
ANONYMOUSLY,
A CURRENT PREMIER FROM
ANOTHER PROVINCE SAYING,
MIKE'S JUST NOT ENGAGED.
IS THAT A PROBLEM IF THE
ONTARIO PREMIER'S NOT ENGAGED?

The caption changes to "Richard Mahoney. Ontario Liberal Advisor."

Richard says I THINK IT'S A
HUGE PROBLEM,
AND IT WILL BE A HUGE PROBLEM
IF HE REMAINS UNENGAGED.
IF, TO PICK UP YOUR
QUESTION TO HUGH,
IF MIKE HARRIS HAS
TAKEN THE TORCH,
AND HE'S CARRYING
SOMEWHAT DIFFERENTLY,
I THINK HE MAYBE HAVE THAT
TORCH BEHIND HIS BACK,
AND I THINK HE BETTER
BE CAREFUL BECAUSE
IT MIGHT BURN HIS
HAIR OR SOMETHING.
IF HE WAS RIGHT, AND HE
BELIEVES THERE IS A WAY
TO RECOGNIZE THE
DISTINCTIVENESS,
THE UNIQUENESS OF QUEBEC
IN WAYS THAT ARE PROBABLY
MORE PALATABLE TO SOME OF
THOSE PEOPLE IN ONTARIO,
AND IN WESTERN CANADA THAT
HOWARD PAWLEY SPOKE ABOUT,
THEN IT IS THE JOB OF
THE ONTARIO PREMIER
TO BEGIN TO LEAD.
HIS JOB IS NOT TO PLAY
DIVISIVE POLITICS,
AS I THINK HE DID
IN CAMPAIGN FORMAT.
HE'S GOT TO REALIZE
ON THIS ISSUE,
HE'S GOT TO BRING
PEOPLE TOGETHER.
HE'S GOT TO FIND THE COMMON
DENOMINATOR THAT UNITES
ONTARIANS, AND BECAUSE
HE'S THE ONTARIO PREMIER,
I WOULD SUBMIT, CANADIANS
AROUND SOME DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.
THERE WAS, I BELIEVE, AN
OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT
AFTER THE REFERENDUM WHEN
THE COUNTRY WAS ON
THE BRINK OF CRISIS, WHEN THE
PRIME MINISTER WAS LOOKING
FOR THE ONTARIO PREMIER IN
PARTICULAR TO TAKE UP
SOME LEADERSHIP ROLE,
AND THE PREMIER SHIRKED
THAT RESPONSIBILITY.

Steve says IT'S INTERESTING, BOTH -
I MEAN BOTH FORMER –

Hugh says I DON'T
WANT TO BE UNKIND,
BUT I THOUGHT BEFORE
THE QUEBEC REFERENDUM,
THE PRECISE ADVICE FROM THE
FEDERAL PRIME MINISTER
TO ALL OTHER PREMIERS
WAS TO STAY OUT OF IT.
UNLESS I MISUNDERSTOOD.
I DON'T WANT TO BE UNKIND,
BUT I THOUGHT –

Richard says WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT
WAS - WHAT HAPPENED
BEFORE THE REFERENDUM
IS FINE, HUGH.
WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE
REFERENDUM WAS ALMOST
A CRISIS, IF NOT A CRISIS.
AND THE COUNTRY WAS
REGROUPING AFTER
THE REFERENDUM AND
LOOKING FOR A WAY
TO PUT THINGS
BACK TOGETHER.
AND I GUESS THE POINT I'M
MAKING, POST REFERENDUM,
WHY DIDN'T MIKE HARRIS,
AND WHY ISN'T MIKE HARRIS
COMING FORWARD TO PLAY A
LEADERSHIP ROLE IN THAT DEBATE?

Steve says OKAY, LET ME GET
RUTH GRIER'S TAKE ON THIS
BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T
HEARD FROM RUTH YET.

The caption changes to "Ruth Grier. Former NDP Cabinet Minister."

Ruth says WELL, I WISH I COULD
SHARE HUGH'S OPTIMISM,
THAT WHEN THE TIME COMES,
AND I AGREE WITH HOWARD
THAT A FEDERAL CAMPAIGN IS
PERHAPS NOT THE TIME
TO DEBATE SOME OF
THE MECHANICS OF
CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE, THAT
IN FACT PREMIER HARRIS
WOULD BE THERE
CARRYING THE TORCH.
THERE'S BEEN NO
SIGN OF IT.
AND MY WORRY IS
THAT ONTARIO, YES,
HAS TO BE A MAJOR PLAYER,
AND THE KIND OF STATEMENTS
THAT Mr. HARRIS HAS
MADE UP TO NOW –

Steve asks WHAT ARE YOU
REFERRING TO HERE?

Ruth says I'M REFERRING TO THE
SORT OF REJECTION
OF DISTINCT SOCIETY.
AND EVEN IF HUGH'S RIGHT,
AND IT'S A DIFFERENT TIME,
AND IT'S GOING TO BE
PHRASED DIFFERENTLY,
THE VERY FACT OF
EXPLICITLY RULING
IT OUT IS AT THIS
POINT NOT HELPFUL.
THIS IS A REALLY
COMPLICATED AND VERY
DELICATE QUESTION
FOR CANADIANS.
I FEEL PASSIONATELY THAT
WE HAVE TO STAY TOGETHER
AS A COUNTRY.
AND I GUESS MY BOTTOM
LINE IS I'M NOT SURE
THAT I HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT
MIKE HARRIS IS GOING TO BE
THERE TO PLAY THE ROLE
THAT ONTARIO HAS TO PLAY.

Steve says THERE WAS ALSO THE
SUGGESTION MADE
BY Mr. HARRIS, I THINK
ON WALL STREET,
THAT QUEBEC HAS ZERO
CHANCE OF SEPARATING, HE SAID.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

Howard says OF COURSE THAT'S LUDICROUS,
AND WE ALL KNOW IT IS.
BUT TWO POINTS I'D
LIKE TO MAKE, STEVE.
ONE, I THINK DISTINCT
SOCIETY IS REALLY
ONLY A STOPGAP.
I THINK UNFORTUNATELY, IN
RESPECT TO THIS ENTIRE DEBATE
INVOLVING CANADIAN UNITY,
IT'S BECOME A QUESTION
OF EITHER DISTINCT
SOCIETY OR NOT.
AND I THINK IT'S
A FALSE ISSUE.
THE SECOND WORRY WHICH I
HAVE IS ONE THAT AROSE
DURING COMMENTS BY HUGH.
AND THAT WAS IN REGARD
TO THE KURSHANE REPORT.
THE KURSHANE REPORT IS NOT
GOING TO FLY IN CANADA,
AND OUGHT NOT TO FLY.
IT'S A DEVOLUTIONIST REPORT.
IT'S ONE THAT WAS
REJECTED BY AT LEAST SIX
OF THE PREMIERS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
AND MY VIEW IS WE HAVE
TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE
A STRONG GOVERNMENT THAT
REPRESENTS ALL CANADIANS,
AND NOT A PATCHWORK
FORM OF FEDERALISM.
AND MY FEAR WOULD BE
THAT IN THINKING
WE'RE GOING TO OBTAIN
SOME SHORT-TERM SOLUTION,
THAT WE MOVE IN THE
DIRECTION OF DEVOLUTION,
TO TRY TO SATISFY QUEBEC,
PIGGY BACKING ON QUEBEC'S
AGENDA BY ALBERTA AND
HARRIS IN RESPECT
TO DEVOLUTION, AND
THE END RESULT
WILL BE A WEAKER CANADA.
A CANADA IN WHICH
WE HAVE TWO HALVES.
PROVINCES THAT ARE FIXED,
THANK YOU, AND OTHERS,
A MAJORITY OF PROVINCES
THAT ARE HAVING
A VERY DIFFICULT TIME.
SO THAT IS NOT THE
DIRECTION TO GO,
IN MY VIEW, IN
SO FAR AS CANADA.
GET BACK TO A DIFFERENT
NATIONAL PURPOSE.

Steve asks HUGH, CAN I JUST
QUESTION YOU A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT WHAT YOUR ROLE IN
THIS IS WITH MIKE HARRIS.
BECAUSE I THINK THE
CONVENTIONAL WISDOM
OUT THERE IS THAT YOU'RE
HIS, YOU KNOW,
SENIOR, IF NOT THE TOP
CONSTITUTIONAL ADVISOR HE HAS.
IS THAT RIGHT?

Hugh says I THINK WE SHOULDN'T
OVERSTATE THINGS.
I'M AN UNPAID VOLUNTEER
CONSTITUTIONAL ADVISOR.
HE TAKES ADVICE
FROM THE MINISTER
OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS.
HE TAKES ADVICE FROM OTHER
MEMBERS OF HIS CABINET,
MEMBERS OF HIS STAFF.

Steve says I'VE GOT
TO STOP YOU THERE.
HE TAKES ADVICE
FROM HIS MINISTER
OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS?

Hugh says ABSOLUTELY.
BECAUSE SHE IS IN
REGULAR CONTACT WITH
HER COUNTERPARTS RIGHT
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

Steve says HE SAID QUEBEC'S
CHANCES OF LEAVING
ARE ZERO, SHE SAID, IN
A SPEECH A YEAR AGO,
CANADA IS MORE FRAGILE AND
IN GREATER DANGER
NOW OF BREAKING
APART THAN EVER.

Hugh says WELL, STEVE, LET
ME ASK YOU THIS.
WOULD YOU, AS
PREMIER OF ONTARIO,
GO DOWN TO A WALL STREET
AUDIENCE AND SAY
THE IMMINENT BREAK UP
OF THE COUNTRY IS NIGH?

Steve says I WOULD MAKE SURE
I WAS SINGING OUT
OF THE SAME HYMN BOOK AS
MY INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS MINISTER.

Hugh says I THINK SHE IS, IN
A DOMESTIC CONTEXT,
TALKING ABOUT A RISK THAT
CANADIANS HAVE TO ADDRESS.
AND HE, IN A
FOREIGN CONTEXT,
WAS TALKING ABOUT
SUSTAINING ECONOMIC
CONFIDENCE IN THE COUNTRY,
WHICH IS IN EVERYBODY'S
INTEREST, INCLUDING THE
INTERESTS OF THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO, MANITOBA,
AND ALL THE REST.
AND I THINK THE ROLES
WERE QUITE DIFFERENT,
IF I MAY SAY SO.

Steve says BUT THEY'RE
BOTH SPEAKING
FOR THE GOVERNMENT.

Ruth says BUT IT'S
CREDIBILITY IN NEW YORK.

Steve continues ONE OF THEM'S
GOT TO BE RIGHT,
ONE OF THEM HAS
GOT TO BE WRONG.

Ruth says IF HE'S SAYING ONE
THING THAT OTHER
PEOPLE ARE SAYING IS
QUITE THE REVERSE,
AND MOST CANADIANS
DON'T BELIEVE,
THAT'S NOT HELPING US.

Hugh says I'M NOT SURE THAT MOST
CANADIANS THINK QUEBEC'S
SEPARATION IS INEVITABLE.
I'M NOT SURE QUEBECERS
THINK THEIR SEPARATION
IS INEVITABLE.
I THINK A LOT OF QUEBECERS
BELIEVE THAT A SOLUTION
WILL BE FOUND.
I THINK MIKE HARRIS
BELIEVES A SOLUTION
WILL BE FOUND, AND HAS
COMMITTED TO BEING
PART OF THAT SOLUTION.

Steve says I APPRECIATE YOUR
DIALOGUE WITH HIM
IS CONFIDENTIAL TO
A GREAT EXTENT.
BUT CAN YOU GIVE US A SENSE
ABOUT WHAT YOU TWO
TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU
TALK ABOUT THIS?
WHAT DO YOU ADVISE HIM?
WHAT DO YOU TELL HIM?

Hugh says OBVIOUSLY, I'M HIS
ADVISOR, STEVE,
AND NOT YOURS.
[laughter]
WHICH IS A SEPARATE
DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER TIME.
AND HE PROBABLY WOULD
PAY ABOUT AS MUCH.
BUT I THINK I CAN SAY
WITHOUT ANY ANGST
AT ALL THAT HE IS
LOOKING FOR THE BEST WAY
TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE,
TO PARTICIPATE
IN THE DEBATE, TO MAINTAIN
APPROPRIATE WORKING
LINKAGES WITH THE
GOVERNMENT OF QUEBEC,
WHICH WE HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO DO
IN TERMS OF THE DAY-TO-DAY
RELATIONSHIPS,
BUT ALSO TO WORK WITH
OTHER PREMIERS
IN A FASHION THAT'S
CONSTRUCTIVE.
AND HE'S IN REGULAR CONTACT
WITH OTHER PREMIERS
OF DIFFERENT POLITICAL
AFFILIATIONS RIGHT
ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON
AN ONGOING BASIS,
AND OCCASION DOCUMENTS AND
STRATEGY PIECES ARE BEING
CIRCULATED, AND CLEARLY
EVERYTHING IS ON A HIATUS
UNTIL THE FEDERAL ELECTION
IS OVER, AS IT SHOULD BE.
THERE'S REGULAR CONTACT
BETWEEN HIS SENIOR
OFFICIALS AND SENIOR
OFFICIALS IN OTTAWA,
BOTH ON THE PRIVY
COUNCIL OFFICE AND IN
THE PRIME
MINISTER'S OFFICE.
SO THE NOTION OF SOME
DISCONNECTED ONTARIO
PREMIER WHO IS NOT
PART OF THE GAME,
I DON'T THINK IS
BASED IN FACT.
IT IS FAIR TO
CONCLUDE, HOWEVER,
THAT IT'S NOT A BIG PART
OF HIS DAILY PUBLIC
PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC
LIFE OF ONTARIO.
AND I THINK THAT
REFLECTS HIS SENSE
OF WHAT'S APPROPRIATE
IN TERMS OF TIMING,
JUST AS RUTH SUGGESTED.
A MECHANICAL DISCUSSION
OF CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES
TODAY MIGHT NOT BE THE
MOST CONSTRUCTIVE WAY
TO PROCEED.

Steve says I UNDERSTAND, BUT
WE HEARD JEFF ROSE,
THE FORMER
INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS DEPUTY MINISTER
FOR BOB RAE SAY,
IN THE BACKGROUND PIECE,
THAT PLAYING IT THE WAY
HE'S PLAYING IT IS
REALLY MIKE HARRIS
PLAYING RIGHT INTO
LUCIEN BOUCHARD'S HANDS.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?

Howard says NO.
I'M NOT SURE JUST WHAT
JEFF ROSE WAS REFERRING
TO BECAUSE AGAIN IF WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT DISTINCT SOCIETY
BEING SOME TOTAL ANSWER
TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.

Steve says NO, BY SAYING
ADMINISTRATIVE
RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE
TWO GOVERNMENTS WILL
SOLVE THINGS AND KEEP
THINGS HUNKY DORY.
WE DON'T HAVE TO SEEK
CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE RIGHT NOW.

Howard says I THINK THE CONSTITUTIONAL
CHANGE IS NOT NECESSARILY
GOING TO BE THE POSITIVE
MOVE TO MAKE OVER
THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
I THINK WE CAN ACCOMPLISH
MUCH MORE BY DEVELOPING
A STRONGER RELATIONSHIP,
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
AND PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS.

Steve asks SO YOU AGREE THEN?

Howard says YEAH, GETTING BACK TO
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT
DISTINCT SOCIETY OR THE
PROVISIONS OF MEECH LAKE
STAND MUCH CHANCE OVER THE
NEXT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS
OF RESUBMITTING THOSE.
BUT I THINK WHAT'S
IMPORTANT IS TO GET
BACK TO THE NATIONAL AGENDA,
THAT DOES NOT MEAN,
AS I MENTIONED, WEAKENING
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT,
TRANSFERRING MORE
POWERS TO THE PROVINCES.
IT CAN MEAN SOME
ELIMINATION OF OVERLAPPING
AND WASTE, BUT IT MEANS
THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT
TAKING ON A GREATER ROLE
IN REGARD TO ESTABLISHING
A SENSE OF PURPOSE
SO EVERYONE,
JUST LIKE THE MANITOBA
FLOOD VICTIMS NOW,
AND MANITOBANS IN GENERAL,
GATHERING TOGETHER
IN A COLLECTIVE SPIRIT
TO BATTLE A CRISIS.
SO WE NEED A FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT THAT IS
GOING TO PROVIDE THAT
KIND OF LEADERSHIP.
I THINK THERE ARE SOME
ISSUES THAT CANADIANS
COULD GATHER AROUND
THAT DO NOT INVOLVE,
INCLUDING QUEBEC, THAT DO
NOT INVOLVE REGURGITATING
THE DISTINCT SOCIETY
ISSUE ONCE MORE.
THAT WILL ONLY PLAY
INTO CERTAIN HANDS.

Steve says RICHARD?

Richard says WITH ABSOLUTELY GREAT
RESPECT TO HOWARD,
WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS MORE
ABOUT THESE THINGS
THAN I DO BECAUSE HE'S
BEEN AT THE TABLE,
THERE OBVIOUSLY HAS TO
BE, AS YOU'VE INDICATED,
AND AS DAVID
PETERSON INDICATED,
AFTER THIS ELECTION, AND
BEFORE THE INEVITABLE NEXT
REFERENDUM, THERE IS GOING
TO BE SOME WAY FOR LEADERS
AND PREMIERS TO COME
TOGETHER AND ADDRESS
THE ISSUE OF QUEBEC'S
VOTE TO STAY IN CANADA,
AND POSSIBLY ADHERENCE
TO THE CONSTITUTION.
SO WHAT FORM WOULD
THAT TAKE IF NOT SOME
RECOGNITION OF ITS
UNIQUE CULTURE, LAW,
AND TRADITIONS IS NOT
PART OF THAT, I GUESS.

Howard says I WISH IT WAS GOING
TO BE THAT SIMPLE.

Richard says I DON'T
THINK IT WILL BE.

Howard continues MAYBE MY EXPERIENCE IS A
RESULT OF ALL THE PREMIERS
AND PRIME MINISTERS THAT
HAVE BEEN CASUALTIES
OF THIS PROCESS.
I DON'T SEE AN UPSIDE.
BUT I THINK THERE
ARE ALTERNATIVE,
NON-CONSTITUTIONAL
PROGRAMIC APPROACHES
WE CAN TAKE.
BUT TO GET AROUND THE
TABLE AND DEBATE WHETHER
IT'S GOING TO BE DISTINCT
OF UNIQUE, LET ME TELL YOU,
RICHARD, IT WILL NOT
FLY IN B.C., ALBERTA,
SASKATCHEWAN AND MANITOBA,
AND WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK
TO WHERE WE STARTED.

Richard says SO SOME OF THE AGREEMENTS,
THE TRAINING AGREEMENTS,
AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE
AGREEMENTS,
AND SOME OF THE
DISENTANGLEMENT AGREEMENTS
ARE THE THINGS
THAT MULRONEY,
I THINK INAPPROPRIATELY
CALLED TIMID, TINY STEPS
ARE SOME OF THE
RIGHT IDEAS?
AND WE NEED TO
DO MORE?

Howard says AND ALSO IF WE CAN REALLY
DO SOMETHING IN A MAJOR WAY
IN ATTACKING THE
QUESTION OF UNEMPLOYMENT
IN THIS COUNTRY.
AFTER THE LAST REFERENDUM,
LIBERALS MENTIONED
PUBLICLY THAT THEY
FOUND DISTINCT SOCIETY
WAS NOT THE BIG ISSUE.
WHAT THE BIG ISSUE
WAS WAS UNEMPLOYMENT.
YOUNG PEOPLE COMPLAINING
ABOUT JOBLESSNESS IN QUEBEC.
IT'S NOT ENOUGH
JUST TO SAY WELL,
THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE
A SEPARATIST GOVERNMENT.
THEY WERE BEGINNING
TO QUESTION WHETHER
FEDERALISM WORKED.
AND SO I THINK IT'S
ECONOMIC AND REINSTITUTING
HEALTH INTO THE ECONOMY
AND THE SOCIAL FABRIC.

Steve says I'VE GOT ABOUT HALF
A MINUTE FOR YOU, RUTH.

Ruth says I THINK THAT'S
A CRUCIAL POINT.
AND WHILE THE PROGRAMATIC
THINGS THAT Mr. CHRETIEN
HAS DONE WITH TRAINING,
OR Mr. HARRIS
MIGHT BE DOING ARE
ALL VERY WELL.
WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS THAT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
IS ALSO UNDERMINING MEDICARE,
REFUSING TO SUPPORT
THE CBC, AND DESTROYING SOME
OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE
MADE THE REST OF CANADA
THINK IT'S WORTHWHILE
BEING A CANADIAN.
AND I THINK THAT WE CAN'T
JUST SAY IT'S OKAY TO DO
PROGRAMATIC THINGS IF AT
THE SAME TIME THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IS UNDERCUTTING
SOME OF THOSE THINGS.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER
PART OF THE CONCERN
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS
AFTER THE ELECTION.

Steve says I'M GOING TO GET IN
HERE ON THAT COMPLETELY
NON-PARTISAN NOTE, AND SAY
SADLY THAT OUR TIME IS UP.
I SUSPECT WE'VE
TALKED ABOUT THIS
MORE THAN ANY OF
THE CANDIDATES
HAVE SO FAR DURING
THE CAMPAIGN.
AND I THANK THE THREE OF
YOU, AND HOWARD PAWLEY,
FORMER PREMIER
OF MANITOBA.
IT'S GOOD TO SEE
YOU AGAIN.
AND THANKS FOR
BEING HERE.

Howard says THANK YOU, STEVE.

Steve says WE ALWAYS ENJOY HEARING
YOUR VIEWS ON NATIONAL UNITY
OR ANY OTHER ISSUE,
SO WRITE TO US,
IF YOU WOULD AT

A slate with the 4th reading logo appears on screen. It reads "4th Reading Box 200, Station Q Toronto, Ontario M4T 2T1."

Steve continues OR IN CYBERSPACE

The slate changes to "Internet Address: 4th_Reading at tvo.org."

Steve says I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
THANKS FOR WATCHING AND
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

(music plays)

A production of TVOntario. The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: Show #93 "Distinct Society"