Transcript: James Kudelka | Oct 15, 1996

(Rhythmic string and wind music plays)

In animation, a word in pink slides by against a gray background as hands paint strokes using paintbrushes, play a piano, and touch as in a ballet performance.

The title of the show reads “Dialogue.”

The title of the episode pops up against an image of Richard Ouzounian and his guest meeting behind the scenes in a theatre: “James Kudela. Artistic Director.”

Then, Richard appears facing the screen as a caption reads “Richard Ouzounian.” He's in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short side-parted blond hair. He's wearing rounded glasses, a black suit, and a lilac shirt.

He says WELCOME TO
DIALOGUE.
I'M RICHARD OUZOUNIAN.
IT'S A VERY FAMILIAR STORY:
CANADIAN BECOMES
INTERNATIONALLY FAMOUS,
LEAVES CANADA AND WORKS
FOREVER IN AMERICA OR EUROPE.
IT'S A FAMILIAR
STORY, BUT A SAD ONE.
BUT I'M HERE TO TELL YOU ONE
THAT HAS A HAPPY ENDING.
A CANADIAN WHO HAS ACHIEVED
FAME IN THE UNITED STATES AND
ABROAD HAS RETURNED TO
CANADA, AND HAS NOT JUST
RETURNED, BUT RETURNED TO TAKE
OVER THE STEWARDSHIP OF THE
NATIONAL BALLET OF CANADA.
THIS
DIALOGUE
IS
WITH JAMES KUDELKA.

James is in his late thirties, clean-shaven, with short receding brown hair. He’s wearing rounded rimless glasses and a black jacket over a dark gray t-shirt.

Richard continues JAMES, WHEN YOU WERE
APPOINTED, EVERYBODY TALKED
ABOUT, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS SO
APPROPRIATE, YOU HAVING COME
UP THROUGH THE NATIONAL BALLET
SCHOOL, THE NATIONAL BALLET
COMPANY, WERE NOW GOING TO BE
HEADING THE NATIONAL BALLET.
BUT I THOUGHT OF SOMETHING
EVEN ONE STEP FURTHER.
I START TO THINK YOUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NATIONAL
BALLET HAS BEEN MUCH LIKE
OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OUR
PARENTS, FREQUENTLY, IN THAT
IT NURTURED YOU AND DEVELOPED
YOU, AND YOU GREW UP, AND YOU
HAD TO BREAK AWAY FOR A WHILE
AND FIND YOURSELF, AND THEN,
YOU CAME BACK, ON YOUR OWN
TERMS, WHEN YOU HAD MATURED,
AND NOW YOU ARE FINALLY TAKING
STEWARDSHIP AND TAKING CARE OF
THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK CARE OF YOU.
HOW DO YOU FEEL
ABOUT THAT DYNAMIC?

James says I THINK THE BEST WAY TO
ADDRESS THAT IS TO TALK ABOUT
THE TIME I WAS AWAY
BECAUSE I STILL HAVE...
I STILL DREAM OF MONTREAL.
I STILL DREAM OF
THE APARTMENT.
IT WAS THE FIRST TIME, I BOUGHT
A CONDO WHEN I WAS THERE.
AND I SOMETIMES WAKE UP IN THE
MORNING AND WISH I WAS THERE,
AND THE POLITICAL SITUATION
THAT'S GOING ON THERE, I FEEL...
I KNOW A LOT ABOUT WHAT IT
WAS LIKE BECAUSE I SPENT
12 YEARS THERE WITH
LES GRAND BALLET.
SO I'M SO GLAD THAT I SPENT
THAT TIME AWAY BECAUSE I THINK
IT'S JUST GOING TO
MAKE ME A RICHER PERSON.

Richard says WHAT WAS SO SPECIAL ABOUT IT FOR YOU?

James says IT TRULY CAME AT A TIME IN MY
LIFE THAT I HAD TO GO OFF AND
SEEK MY FORTUNE.
AND I'D HAD SO WHEN YOU GO TO
THE NATIONAL BALLET SCHOOL,
I DIDN'T AUDITION TO GO TO THE
NATIONAL BALLET SCHOOL, JUST
BASICALLY BECAUSE I WAS A
TEN-YEAR-OLD MALE, AND THEY
WOULD HAVE TAKEN ANYBODY
IN PANTS AT THAT TIME.
AND WHEN I GOT INTO THE
COMPANY, IT HAPPENED SO IT WAS
JUST THIS GREASED CAREER THAT
JUST KEPT, I JOINED IN '72
WHEN NUREYEV WAS TAKING THE
COMPANY ON TOUR TO THE STATES,
WHEN WE HAD GONE INTO THAT
KIND OF INTERNATIONAL SORT
OF SHOWCASE.
THE SORT OF TRAJECTORY UP
THROUGH DEMI SOLOIST AND SOLOIST
WAS SOMETHING, IT WAS ALL JUST
EXPECTED, AND I HAD, IN A
WAY, NO CONTROL OVER IT.
I HADN'T MADE A DECISION
SINCE I WAS ABOUT NINE.
SO THE MOMENT OF LEAVING WAS
VERY, VERY DECISIVE FOR ME.

Richard says NOW, IT'S INTERESTING, I READ
IN INTERVIEWS AND THINGS THAT
YOU REFER TO A COMBINATION OF
THINGS THAT LED YOU TO LEAVE,
BUT THERE'S ALWAYS
ONE THING, ISN'T IT?
WAS THERE ONE TRIGGER
POINT THAT MADE YOU FEEL
YOU HAD TO LEAVE THE NEST?

James says I FELT I WAS DYING.
WHEN I GOT OFF BY MYSELF, AND
I WAS IN THERAPY AND ALL THAT
KIND OF THING, AND I
JUST SAID, CREATIVELY,
I AM DYING HERE.
I CANNOT GO ANYWHERE.
I'VE HIT THE ROOF.
I'VE HIT MY CEILING, AND THERE
IS REALLY NOT MORE I CAN DO
HERE UNTIL ABOUT TEN YEARS
GOES BY, AND THEN I CAN DO
THE THINGS I REALLY
WANT TO DO.

Richard says THAT'S WHAT I WAS
GOING TO ASK YOU.
HAD YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT
YOU WOULD COME BACK?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "James Kudelka. Artistic Director, National Ballet of Canada."

James says IT WASN'T THE SORT OF THING --
WELL, IT'S ABOUT THE SAME AS
BEING NOMINATED THE DIRECTOR
OF THE NATIONAL BALLET.
AM I THINKING ABOUT WHEN
IT'S GOING TO BE OVER?
WELL, CERTAINLY,
MY DAYS ARE FULL.
YOU KNOW, AND I KEEP THINKING,
GOD, IS THERE GOING TO BE
SOME DAYS IN THE FUTURE WHEN
I AM NOT GOING TO HAVE TO DO
ALL THIS IN A DAY?
SO I THINK I WOULD
COMPARE IT WITH THAT.
I SAID TO MYSELF PROBABLY
ABOUT FIVE YEARS
I'M GOING TO GO AWAY FOR.
AND I WAS AWAY ALMOST 12.

Richard says MONTREAL WAS A HAPPY PLACE
FOR YOU, IN MANY WAYS BECAUSE
YOU GREW AND YOU DEVELOPED,
AND YOU STARTED ALL KINDS OF
THINGS, BUT IT IS, ALSO, WHERE
YOU SUSTAINED THE INJURY THAT
FINALLY, I GUESS, PUSHED YOU
INTO CHOREOGRAPHING FULL-TIME.
DID YOU CONNECT THAT IN YOUR
MIND WITH BEING IN MONTREAL
AND BEING AWAY, OR
ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

James says WELL, IT'S UNFORTUNATE
BECAUSE I DO CONNECT THE
INJURY BECAUSE I HAVE TWICE
GONE BACK TO MONTREAL
AND HURT MYSELF AGAIN
WORKING WITH THE COMPANY.
AND THAT'S A TERRIBLE SORT
OF SCAR OR STAIN TO SORT OF
ANNOUNCE ON TELEVISION.
I'M A LITTLE CAREFUL ABOUT MY
RELATIONSHIP THERE BECAUSE
I GOT, YOU KNOW, THE SAME
SITUATION HIT GRAND BALLET
WHEN I WAS THERE, THAT'S COME
UP HERE IN THE PAST, AND
THAT'S THAT THE DIRECTORS WERE
CONSTANTLY KIND OF TURNING
OVER WHILE I WAS HAVING THIS
CAREER THAT WAS MOVING UP.
AND THE COMPANY DEPENDED VERY,
VERY MUCH ON MY PRESENCE THERE.
I WAS A VERY, VERY STRONG
CREATIVE PERSON THAT HELPED
PUT THEM ON THE MAP.
WE WERE GOING TO NEW YORK,
CITY CENTRE, FOUR YEARS IN A
ROW THAT MY WORK WAS VERY
IMPORTANT TO THE COMPANY.
I WAS DANCING PRINCIPAL ROLES,
DOING, REALLY, THE CREATIVE
FORCE BEHIND IT.
SO AS THE DIRECTORSHIPS KEPT
CHANGING, THERE WAS TALK ABOUT
SHOULD I BE THE ONE
THAT TAKES OVER?
SHOULD I BECOME PART OF THE
TRIUMVIRATE BECAUSE THEY
TENDED TO HAVE A SORT
OF DOUBLE OR TRIPLE
DIRECTORSHIP THERE.
AND I JUST FELT I WAS SO
OVERWORKED THAT I COULDN'T
TAKE ON ANY MORE.
AND, TRULY, IT SEEMS FITTING
THAT THE WEIGHT OF WHAT WAS
GOING ON HURT MY BACK.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHY, WHEN I
GO BACK THERE, THAT I TEND
TO SORT OF KEEP
CARRYING THAT WEIGHT.
THAT I'M NOT ACTUALLY ABLE --
FOR THE TEN YEARS I WAS AWAY
FROM THE NATIONAL BALLET,
I DIDN'T REALLY GO NEAR
St. LAWRENCE HALL.
WHEN I CAME TO TORONTO, I
SPENT MY TIME WITH TORONTO
DANCE THEATRE, WHO I DID
COURT OF MIRACLES
WITH THEM
YEAR AFTER YEAR.
I DID WORKS FOR DANCE MAKERS.
MY CONNECTIONS WITH TORONTO
WERE NOT INVOLVED WITH THE
NATIONAL BALLET OF CANADA.

Richard says DID YOU CHOOSE THAT
SEPARATION, OR DID THE
NATIONAL BALLET CHOOSE IT?

James says NO, I DID.
I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO
GO NEAR THE BUILDING.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT IS BEING
REPEATED NOW, IS WHEN I GO TO
MONTREAL, I SPEND TIME WITH MY
FRIENDS THAT I KNEW OUTSIDE
THE COMPANY, AND MY AGENT IS
IN MONTREAL, MY ACCOUNTANT IS
STILL IN MONTREAL.
THE ONE THING I DIDN'T MOVE
TO MONTREAL WAS THE PERSON WHO
CUTS MY HAIR BECAUSE I
COULD NEVER FIND ANYBODY.
SO I ALWAYS CAME TO
TORONTO FOR HAIRCUTS.

Richard says THE NATIONAL BALLET WANTED
YOU BACK AT ANY POINT?

James says NO, THEY MADE...
THERE WAS NO MOVE CERTAINLY
DURING ERIC'S YEARS
TO BRING ME BACK.
THERE WAS A 35th ANNIVERSARY
GALA, AFTER ERIC DIED, I THINK
A PIECE OF “WASHINGTON SQUARE.”
WAS BROUGHT BACK FOR THAT.
IT WASN'T UNTIL REID GOT THE
POSITION THAT I GOT A PHONE
CALL ASKING ME TO
COME AND DO A BALLET.
I WAS CAREFUL ABOUT
HOW I CAME BACK.
I THINK PEOPLE THOUGHT I WAS
BEING SNOOTY, BUT I WAS JUST
BEING EXTREMELY CAREFUL ABOUT
HOW IT WAS ALL GOING TO HAPPEN.
BUT A LOT OF WATER HAD GONE
UNDER THE BRIDGE BY THE TIME
I GOT BACK THERE.

Richard says THE BIG MOMENT, I GUESS,
AFTER HAVING DONE MANY, MANY
SUCCESSFUL BALLETS, BUT ALL
GENERALLY SHORTER PIECES,
WHEN YOU HAD TO DO, SOME
CHOREOGRAPHER'S NIGHTMARE,
WHICH IS DO A NEW
NUTCRACKER,
YOU KNOW,
FIND A WAY TO MAKE
THE NUTCRACKER
WORK.
AND IT WAS LIKE DOING A
MAJOR BROADWAY PRODUCTION.
AND AS YOU HAVE ALSO SAID,
IT'S WHERE YOU LEARNED ABOUT
RUNNING A LARGE COMPANY
BECAUSE YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF
THIS MULTIMILLION
DOLLAR SPECTACLE.
WHEN THE OFFER WAS FIRST MADE,
WHAT WAS YOUR GUT FEELING
ABOUT DOING IT?

James says OH, IT CAME UP IN THE FIRST
CONVERSATION WITH REID, WHEN
WE WERE TRYING TO SORT OF FEEL
OUT, HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE
SURE I WAS COMFORTABLE.
AND I WAS GOING TO NAME THE
JOB AS ARTIST IN RESIDENCE,
AND THEN CAME UP
THE
NUTCRACKER
THING, AND
I SAID, I THINK REALLY THAT IS
SOMEBODY ELSE'S DEPARTMENT.
I DON'T THINK THAT
INTERESTS ME VERY MUCH.

Richard says HOW COME?

James says OH, I GUESS THERE WAS A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THE WEIGHT
OF HISTORY THERE, THAT I
REALIZED I WOULD BE COMING UP
AGAINST THE FOUNDER, NOT
AGAINST THE FOUNDER, BUT I WAS
GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH HOW
TO DIPLOMATICALLY REPLACE THE
PRODUCTION WHICH HAD
BEEN THE ONE I WAS IN
AS A TEN-YEAR-OLD.

Richard says RIGHT.

James says AND IT'S JUST THAT PARTY
SCENE AT THE BEGINNING OF IT.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT
I WOULD DO WITH THAT.
AND I DON'T THINK I
CAN FIGURE THAT OUT.
THERE WERE OTHER AREAS OF IT
THAT I THOUGHT WERE POSSIBLE,
BUT I THOUGHT, OH, MY GOD,
DO I HAVE TO THINK UP
ALL THOSE CHARACTERS.

Richard says BUT, IRONICALLY, THAT'S ONE
OF THE GREATEST SUCCESSES
OF THE NUTCRACKER.
THERE'S A WHOLE LIFE THERE.
WHAT UNLOCKED
THE DOOR FOR YOU?

James says GETTING -- ACTUALLY, I JUST
WANT TO ADD ON TO THAT,
IT HAPPENED TWICE THAT REID
THEN ASKED ME AGAIN, AND I
THOUGHT, WELL, NOW I HAVE
THE JOB, I BETTER DO IT.
SO THAT'S WHEN I
STARTED TO WORK ON IT.
AND WHEN SANTO LOQUASTO,
THE DESIGNER, CAME ONBOARD.
AND HE IS SOMEBODY THAT I'D
WORKED WITH, I THINK, IT MAY
NOT HAVE BEEN SEVEN OR EIGHT
TIMES BY THEN BECAUSE I THINK
WE STILL DID A COUPLE OF
PIECES BEFORE
NUTCRACKER,
BUT HE'S A COLLABORATOR THAT I
CAN REALLY COLLABORATE WITH.
AND I SAID, LOOK, WHAT
ARE WE GOING TO DO
WITH THE FIRST SCENE?
WHAT AM I GONNA DO TO
MAKE IT PALATABLE FOR ME
TO TAKE PART IN IT?
AND HE HAD THE IDEA OF PUTTING
IT OUTSIDE, AND THEN IT
BECAME WINTER, AND I THOUGHT,
OUTSIDE, COUNTRY, BARN,
YOU KNOW, ALL THESE THINGS THAT
STARTED TO RELATE VERY MUCH
TO MY OWN LIFE.
BECAUSE A BARN, THE DARKNESS
OF A BARN WITH A DOOR OPEN,
AND THE WHITENESS OF THE
SNOW, I GREW UP WITH THAT.
THAT WAS BEHIND OUR HOUSE.
SO I KNEW WHAT A
WINTER DAY WAS.

Richard says YOU TOOK US THERE.
LET ME GO BACK THERE,
TO NEWMARKET, RIGHT?
AGAIN, I'VE HEARD THE STORIES
THAT YOU GOT TAKEN TO BALLET
LESSONS WHEN YOU
WERE FIVE, SIX?

James says FIVE, YEAH.

Richard says HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

James says MY SISTER JAN, WHO I THINK
YOU PROBABLY KNOW, WAS,
SHE WAS TWO YEARS OLDER THAN
I WAS, SO SHE WAS SEVEN,
AND SHE WAS IN BALLET CLASS.
SO MY MOTHER WOULD PICK, WE
WOULD GO, THE YOUNGER KIDS,
WOULD GET PUT IN THE CAR TO
GO AND PICK UP JAN FROM HER
BALLET LESSON.
AND IT SUDDENLY CAME ALONG
THAT PERHAPS IF THEY LEFT
JAMIE AT THE BALLET LESSON,
AND LET HIM DO IT, THEN
MY MOTHER WOULD HAVE A BIT
MORE FREEDOM, AND I HAD
A LOT OF ENERGY, AND THEY
THOUGHT MAYBE THAT WOULD
GET RID OF SOME OF IT.
SO I JUST GOT LEFT IN
THE CLASS WITH HER.

Richard says BUT IT WASN'T YOU HAD A BURNING
DESIRE TO DANCE INITIALLY.

James says YOU KNOW, I THINK AS A
FIVE-YEAR-OLD, YOU HAVE A
BURNING DESIRE.
IT'S GENERAL.
IT'S A GENERAL
DESIRE AT THAT AGE.

Richard says DID YOU FEEL YOU KIND OF GAVE
UP YOUR CHILDHOOD BY STARTING
THERE, AND THEN GOING TO THE
SCHOOL AT TEN, AND THEN GOING
TO THE COMPANY AT 16?

James says YES.
SIMPLE AS THAT.

Richard says BECAUSE, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY,
WE'VE OPENED THE DOOR NOW TO A
WHOLE BUNCH OF THEMES
IN YOUR BALLETS.
THERE'S THE DARK SIDE, AND
THERE IS THE LIGHT SIDE
OF CHILDHOOD.
I MEAN, IN
MIRACULOUS
MANDARIN, AND IN
SPRING AWAKENING, THERE IS
A VERY DARK PICTURE OF
WHAT HAPPENS TO CHILDREN.
I'M NOT ASKING, OF COURSE, IF
THAT IS LITERALLY THERE,
BUT WHY ARE THOSE DARK PICTURES
THAT YOU FEEL A NEED TO DEPICT?

James says WELL, I GUESS THEY'VE JUST
BECOME, IT'S OVER THE YEARS,
THEY'VE BECOME MY THEMES.
I DON'T THINK THE THEMES IN
THE EARLIER WORKS WERE ALWAYS
RAPE, AND
THE PARTY
WAS
ABOUT BETRAYAL, AND CATHERINE
SLOPER IN
WASHINGTON SQUARE
IS ABOUT THE PROMISE OF SEX,
BUT NOT SEX.
IT'S TAKEN A WHILE, GOING
THROUGH MY OWN PSYCHOLOGICAL
JOURNEY, AS I SAY, THROUGH
THERAPY AND THAT, TO REALLY
REALIZE THERE WAS A
WOUNDED CHILD IN US ALL,
AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO
TAKE CARE OF THAT CHILD.
AND I FIND, THROUGH MY
WORK, I'M ABLE TO DO IT.
AND I FOUND, THROUGH
NUTCRACKER,
I ACTUALLY
DIDN'T HAVE TO MAKE IT A
DEPRESSING SUBJECT TO BE ABLE
TO LOOK AT WHO I WAS.

Richard says SEE,
NUTCRACKER
AGAIN, IT
STRUCK ME, IN SOME WAYS, AS
BEING SO CLOSE BECAUSE NOT
ONLY AS YOU MENTION THE BARN
AND THE OUTSIDE, YOU'VE TALKED
ABOUT HOW YOU SPENT A LOT OF
YOUR PRIMARY YEARS, FORMATIVE
YEARS, IN
NUTCRACKER,
AND HAVING TO DO THAT.
AND WHEN YOU RESTRUCTURED
IT, OF COURSE, THE YOUNG BOY
BECOMES MORE PROMINENT IN
NUTCRACKER, IN YOUR VERSION.
AND I COULDN'T HELP BUT FLASH
ON THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
THE BROTHER AND THE SISTER,
AND I THOUGHT OF YOUR SISTER
AND YOURSELF GOING OFF TO
BALLET TOGETHER AND BEING THERE.
ARE THOSE THINGS WORKING
ON ONE LEVEL FOR YOU?

James says I DON'T THINK I'M TRYING TO
DO IT COMPLETELY -- YOU HAVE
TO TAKE -- WITH ANY OF
MY PIECES, IN
PARIDIS,
WHICH WAS, OSTENSIBLY,
BECAUSE I WAS GOING THROUGH
THE DEATH OF MY MOTHER,
YOU HAVE TO BLOW THEM UP
TO BECOME UNIVERSAL.
THEY CAN'T JUST BE
BIOGRAPHICAL THINGS BECAUSE
I DON'T THINK THEY SERVE
ANY PURPOSE FOR ART
UNLESS YOU CAN MAKE IT
A MORE UNIVERSAL THING.
SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT I TAKE
THE ISSUES THAT ARE QUITE
PERSONAL TO ME AND GET
THEM INTO A BIGGER ARENA.
MY MOST SUCCESSFUL WORK
COMES FROM THOSE PLACES.
BUT MY MOST SUCCESSFUL WORK
ALSO, I THINK, UNIVERSALIZES
MY THEMES.

Richard says IT WAS A SURPRISE TO MANY
PEOPLE TO SEE SUCH A POSITIVE,
YOU KNOW, KUDELKA THEME
COMING OUT IN A BALLET.
DID IT SURPRISE
YOU, AS WELL?

James says YEAH.
CERTAINLY, IT SURPRISED SANTO.
HE COULDN'T BELIEVE I
WAS IN SUCH A GOOD MOOD
DURING THE WHOLE THING.
AND HE SORT OF KEPT SAYING
HE LIKED THE OLD ME
WHO WAS MORE SORT OF IBSEN.

Richard says THIS IS FUNNY.
I'VE HEARD YOU DESCRIBED
AS PINTER, I'VE HEARD YOU
DESCRIBED AS IBSEN.
YOU TALKED ABOUT
SOME OF THE THEMES.
I MEAN, I ALWAYS LOOKED
BACK, AND I SEE THINGS IN
WASHINGTON SQUARE, AND
IN
THE ACTRESS,
AND IN
CRUEL WORLD, THERE IS ALWAYS
ABOUT, IF THERE'S ONE THING
I KEEP SEEING IT'S, ARE
YOU GOING TO ACCEPT ME,
OR ARE YOU GOING
TO REJECT ME?
IS IT A WHOLE THEME, OR
AN INDIVIDUAL MOVEMENT?
AND IT SEEMS TO BE YOU ARE
TACKLING THIS IN DIFFERENT
WAYS, AS YOU ARE GETTING
MORE MATURE AS AN ARTIST.
IS THIS CONSCIOUS, OR IS THIS
WHAT IS JUST BUBBLING UP?

James says WELL, HINDSIGHT IS 20-20.
YOU TAKE A REST, AND YOU LOOK
BACK, AND YOU GO, MY GOD,
THEY'RE ALL ABOUT THE SAME
THING, AND YET I THOUGHT I WAS
SORT OF TRYING TO GO A DIFFERENT
PLACE WITH IT EACH TIME.
THIS JUST BEGS THE QUESTION
ABOUT WHETHER WE ALL JUST HAVE
ONE PIECE IN US, ONE DANCE, OR
ONE THEME, AND WE JUST TRY
TO KEEP ATTACKING IT.
I READ SOMETHING IN THE PAPER
THE OTHER DAY, A WRITER
TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY JUST
BASICALLY STOPPED WRITING
BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THEY
WERE WRITING THE SAME THING
OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Richard says BUT YOU DON'T THINK YOU
ARE DOING THE SAME BALLET
OVER AND OVER?

James says I QUESTION THAT KIND
OF THING, AND I GO,
OH, MY GOD, AM I?
AND I THINK IT'S GOOD
TO KEEP THESE CHECKS
AND BALANCES HAPPENING.
AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO
MANAGE TO REINVENT THEMSELVES
ALL THE TIME, THAT'S THE KIND
OF PERSON I WOULD LIKE TO BE.
SO I WANT TO KEEP A CLOSE
WATCH ON MYSELF TO MAKE SURE,
OKAY,
NUTCRACKER
WENT
WELL, SO AS LONG AS I DO
FAMILY-BASED BALLETS THAT
MAKE PEOPLE FEEL GOOD TO
TCHAIKOVSKY SCORES,
I'M GOING TO BE OKAY.
AND THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
THAT WAS THE ZENITH OF THAT
PARTICULAR PERIOD, AND I WANT
TO KEEP IT MOVING ALONG.

Richard says WHEN YOU LOOK BACK, SEE,
THAT'S THE OTHER THING, AS A
BALLET ARTIST, WORKS GO INTO
REPERTOIRE, AND ARE REVIVED
AND BROUGHT BACK AGAIN.

James says OR AREN'T.

Richard says OR AREN'T.
THAT'S TRUE.
BUT LOOKING AT
WASHINGTON
SQUARE
AGAIN RECENTLY,
WHAT DID YOU FEEL ABOUT
THAT WITH WHAT IS IT,
13 YEARS HINDSIGHT?

James says I THOUGHT IT WAS REMARKABLE.
I SAID TO REID, WHO HAD NEVER
SEEN IT BEFORE AND JUST
TRUSTED IT WAS GOING TO BE
OKAY BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE
HAD ASKED FOR IT, AND I SAID,
GO FIGURE WHO WOULD HAVE
KNOWN THIS WOULD HAVE
LOOKED AS GOOD AS IT DID.
I WAS VERY, VERY
SURPRISED BY IT.
I THINK, I DON'T THINK 13
YEARS FROM NOW WE ARE GOING
TO SEE
MIRACULOUS
MANDARIN
AGAIN.
BUT I LIKED
MIRACULOUS MANDARIN.
I ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT
TOLD A STORY REALLY WELL.
AND IF FOR THAT REASON ALONE,
I THINK IT WAS A GOOD PIECE
FOR ME TO HAVE DONE.
I KNOW THAT KIND OF PIECE IS
NOT GOING TO BE POPULAR,
AND WE ARE GOING THROUGH A
PERIOD WHEN YOU HAVE TO
BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT
PEOPLE STAYING AWAY IN DROVES
FROM DARK WORKS.

Richard says ALSO, WHEN CRITICS JUMP AND
ATTACK A WORK, DOES THAT EVER TOUCH YOU?

James says THE GOOD ONE ABOUT
WASHINGTON SQUARE, ONE MAJOR
CRITIC, ALTHOUGH I DON'T READ
THEM, BUT I HEARD, THAT HE
SAID, HE SORT OF TURNED AROUND
AND SAID, THERE WAS MORE IN
THIS THAN WE GAVE
IT CREDIT FOR.

Richard says WHAT ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE
MANDARIN,
WHEN THEY KIND OF
SNIPE AT YOU FOR THAT?
DOES THAT HURT?

James says IT WAS A VERY, VERY
IMPORTANT PIECE FOR ME TO DO
AT THAT TIME.
IT WAS A PIECE THAT I WORKED
ON DURING MY YEAR OFF,
SO IT GOT A LOT OF MY ATTENTION.
AND IT'S A WONDERFUL SCORE.
IT PUSHED ME VERY, VERY HARD
TO TRY TO MATCH THAT PIECE
OF MUSIC, TO TRY TO MAKE
IT COMPREHENSIBLE.
TO TRY TO DO A STORY AND
REALIZE A BIG BALLET WITH
SCENERY, WHICH I HADN'T DONE.
IN MONTREAL, IT WAS
JUST NICK CERNOVITCH,
THE LIGHTING DESIGNER,
AND AN EMPTY STAGE.
WHICH WAS A REALLY GOOD
THING TO DO FOR TEN YEARS,
BUT I FINALLY GOT BACK HERE
WHERE I WAS ABLE TO MAKE
REALLY BIG DEMANDS ON THE
PRODUCTION DEPARTMENT
FOR SOMETHING I HADN'T
BEEN ABLE TO DO.
WHEN I REALIZED THAT YOU
DIDN'T NEED A DOORWAY FOR
PEOPLE TO COME THROUGH, THAT
YOU COULD ACTUALLY CREATE A
SET THAT WAS ABSTRACT ENOUGH
THAT YOU KNEW PEOPLE WERE
COMING FROM OUTSIDE, THERE
WERE JUST LITTLE LESSONS
I LEARNED ALL THE
WAY THROUGH IT.
JUST AS IN
THE ACTRESS,
TRYING TO TELL A STORY IN
THESE LITTLE BITES OF 47
SECONDS IS THE SHORTEST DUET
IN THAT, YET YOU HAVE TO
PUT ACROSS A RELATIONSHIP,
AND THAT SORT OF THING.
THEY ALL LAYERED ON THEMSELVES
BECAME
THE NUTCRACKER.
THAT'S WHY I THOUGHT ALL
OF THE THINGS WERE REALLY
IMPORTANT, AND WHY THE
NUTCRACKER
WASN'T AS
DAUNTING AS I THOUGHT IT
WOULD BE, BEFORE I'D DONE
THE ACTRESS
AND
MANDARIN,
WHICH IS WHEN I WAS FIRST
ASKED TO DO IT.
I ALSO WENT TO SAN FRANCISCO
BEFORE
NUTCRACKER, AND I
TENDED TO DO LARGE SCALE
BALLETS THERE, ONCE AGAIN,
WITHOUT SETS, SO I REALLY
WORKED ON WHAT EVENTUALLY
BECAME
WALTZ OF THE FLOWERS.
THERE ARE ACTUALLY STEPS FROM
THAT BALLET THAT GOT INTO
THE NUTCRACKER.
I HUMMED
THE WALTZ OF THE
FLOWERS
TO THE MUSIC I WAS
USING, AND THOUGHT, OKAY THIS
WILL WORK, AND TRIED TO WORK
WITH LARGE GROUPS
BECAUSE I'D NEVER FACED
A CORPS DU BALLET BEFORE.
AND
NUTCRACKER
HAS A LOT OF
CORPS DU BALLET WORK IN IT,
SO EACH OF THE PIECES THAT I
DID IN THE LAST THREE OR FOUR
YEARS, KNOWINGLY OR NOT, LED
ME TOWARDS BEING ABLE TO DO
THE NUTCRACKER.

Richard says I READ A PIECE IN AN
INTERVIEW WHERE YOU SAID YOU
WOULD LIKE TO THINK ABOUT
DOING, FOR
SWAN LAKE
WHAT YOU DID FOR
NUTCRACKER.

James says YEAH.

Richard says IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?

James says I HAVE TO MAKE THAT A
POSSIBILITY NOW BECAUSE IT'S
NOT ME GOING TO REID AND
SAYING, HEY, I'D LIKE TO DO
THIS, ARE YOU
INTERESTED IN THAT?
WHICH IN FACT I DID WHEN I
STARTED WORKING ON
NUTCRACKER.
I'M NOW IN A POSITION WHERE
WE'RE WORKING AND SEEING WHAT
IS THE SOONEST WE COULD
DO A WORK LIKE THAT.
ALTHOUGH I HAVE TO ADD ON TO
THAT, I THINK
NUTCRACKER
NEEDED MORE HELP THAN
SWAN LAKE
NEEDS.
I THINK THERE'S PARTS OF
SWAN LAKE
THAT YOU WOULDN'T
REALLY WANT TO DO
VERY MUCH WITH.
AND THERE'S PARTS OF ERIC
BRUN'S
SWAN LAKE,
WHICH IS
THE VERSION THAT WE KNOW, THE
TWO ACTS VERSUS THE FOUR ACTS
IS SOMETHING ONE WOULD
WANT TO KEEP IN IT.
HIS FOURTH ACT IS
VERY, VERY BEAUTIFUL.
EVERYTHING IS IN CIRCLES,
WHEREAS THE FIRST SWAN SCENE
EVERYTHING IS IN STRAIGHT
LINES, AND THINGS LIKE THAT
I THINK I'D LIKE TO
KEEP FROM THAT VERSION.
HOWEVER, AT THE SAME TIME,
TORONTO'S BEEN BROUGHT UP
ON A VERSION THAT DOESN'T
HAVE A VON ROTHBART,
THAT DOESN'T HAVE A BENNO,
THAT DOESN'T HAVE A
LOT OF THE THINGS.
IT'S QUITE A
STREAMLINED VERSION,
IT WAS AHEAD OF ITS
TIME AT ITS TIME.
AND WHEN WE DID TOUR IT AROUND
THE WORLD, IT WAS SEEN AS
QUITE AN ANOMALY, AND NOT
REALLY AS
SWAN LAKE.
JUST AS OUR
NUTCRACKER
PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE.
IS IT REALLY A
NUTCRACKER
BECAUSE THE NAMES ARE CHANGED,
AND DOES IT HAVE ALL THE
BASIC THINGS THAT MAKE A
NUTCRACKER?
I'D ACTUALLY LIKE TO, WITH
A SWAN LAKE, PUT ALL THE
CHARACTERS BACK IN THAT ERIC
SO CAREFULLY TOOK OUT, AND DO
THAT KIND OF VERSION OF IT.
SO I'D DO A REVERSE THING.
WE'VE HAD THE STRANGE
VERSION OF IT,
THE IDIOSYNCRATIC VERSION.
I THINK NOW WOULD BE
INTERESTING TO TRY TO DO A
MORE NORMAL VERSION OF IT,
FOR WANT OF A BETTER WORD.

Richard says IS THE BIG BALLET WHERE YOU
WILL BE DEVOTING MORE OF YOUR
ENERGY, OR ARE YOU STILL GOING
TO CONTINUE TO DO SMALLER
PIECES, OR MIX THEM UP?

James says I WOULD PREFER TO DO
THE LARGER SCALE ONES.
AND BASICALLY LEAVE ROOM
FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THE
SMALLER ONES BECAUSE
THERE IS A LOT OF TALENT
THAT SHOULD BE BROUGHT UP.
AND IF I'M DOING THEM,
THEN SOMEBODY ELSE ISN'T.
AND I MUST MAKE SURE OTHER
PEOPLE ARE DOING THINGS.
SO I LIKE WORKING -- I THINK
WORKING WITH THE COMPANY AS A
WHOLE GALVANIZES THE COMPANY
IN A MAJOR WAY, WHEN YOU
REALLY GET ALL THE DEPARTMENTS
WORKING, AND YOU'RE PUTTING
ON A NEW SHOW, IT'S JUST
LIKE BEING IN SHOW BUSINESS,
WHICH IS WHY WE ARE ALL HERE.

Richard says DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY IN THAT CASE
TO THE AUDIENCE, TO DO THINGS
THEY WILL WANT TO COME SEE,
AS WELL?

James says THIS IS ALL THE BALANCING ACT
OF, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T JUST
DO WHAT THE AUDIENCE WANTS TO
SEE BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS WANT
TO BE ABLE TO SURPRISE THE
AUDIENCE WITH SOMETHING
THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY
WERE GOING TO SEE.
BUT THAT'S ONE I'VE BEEN
CARRYING AS A CHOREOGRAPHER
FOR YEARS.
I THINK AS A DIRECTOR, I
SHOULD JUST CONTINUE ON
THE SAME SORT OF
PHILOSOPHY ABOUT THAT.
IT'S A HARD QUESTION.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO TURN EACH
OF THE DIALS REALLY, REALLY
SLOWLY WHEN YOU ARE
TRYING TO MAKE CHANGE.
I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SORT OF
TURN UP ONE REALLY HIGH, AND
TURN DOWN THE REST BECAUSE
IT'S TAKEN A LONG TIME TO
BUILD UP THE SORT OF SUPPORT.
AND THE SUPPORT WE HAVE NOW,
JUST IN THE COMMUNITY AND OUR
PATRONS, AND THE PEOPLE WHO
REALLY LOVE THE COMPANY AND
ENJOY IT, AND I THINK THEY
WANT TO BE STRETCHED,
BUT YOU HAVE TO DO IT
A BIT AT THE TIME.
I WONDER WHETHER, YOU KNOW,
I THINK
MANDARIN
MADE IT
POSSIBLE FOR THIS AUDIENCE
TO WATCH
SPRING AWAKENING.
AND I THINK
SPRING AWAKENING
AND
MANDARIN
POSSIBLY MADE
IT POSSIBLE FOR
THEM TO WATCH
MANON
AND NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
THINGS IN
MANON
THAT MIGHT
HAVE BEEN PROBLEMATIC BEFORE.
SO IT'S BUILDING ON EACH OF
THE THINGS, AND KEEP PUSHING
THE ENVELOPE AND UPPING THE
ANTE, AND ALL THOSE CLICHES.
JUST A BIT AT A TIME SO THAT
FIVE, SIX YEARS FROM NOW,
YOU GO, MY GOD, WE REALLY
ARE SOMEWHERE ELSE
THAN WE WERE BEFORE, BUT
IT WAS SO SUBTLY DONE.

Richard says I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT
CRUEL WORLD,
WHICH TORONTO IS
FINALLY GOING
TO GET A PEEK AT.
HOW DOES A WORK LIKE THAT
START? I HAVE TO CONFESS,
OF FLORENCE,
BY TCHAIKOVSKY
WAS GOING TO BECOME A BALLET
CALLED
CRUEL WORLD,
I THOUGHT,
NOW HOW DOES THAT
TRANSFORMATION TAKE PLACE?
WHERE DID THIS
ONE START FOR YOU?

James says WELL, I'LL ADDRESS THAT FIRST
BY SAYING THAT TITLES TEND TO
COME IN THE MIDDLE
OF A PROCESS TO ME.
SO I DIDN'T LISTEN TO THAT AND
GO, MY GOD, THAT SOUNDS LIKE
A CRUEL WORLD.
IT WAS ONCE WE MADE THE
BALLET THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS
AN APPROPRIATE TITLE.
ABT, AMERICAN BALLET THEATRE,
ASKED ME TO DO A WORK...
I THINK IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO.
AND THAT WAS A SCORE THAT I
RAN ACROSS SURPRISINGLY DURING
THE YEAR EVERY COMPANY WANTED
TO DO TCHAIKOVSKY BALLETS
BECAUSE IT WAS THE CENTENARY,
WAS IT NOT, AND I SAID, NO
THERE'S NO TCHAIKOVSKY MUSIC,
AND THERE'S NOTHING, AND I
CAN'T DO A TCHAIKOVSKY BALLET,
AND OF COURSE A PIECE OF
MUSIC TURNED UP, AND AT THAT
POINT, NOBODY HAD BEEN ABLE
TO PRINT BROCHURES
CELEBRATING TCHAIKOVSKY,
SO IT SORT OF WENT BY
WITHOUT ANYBODY NOTICING
IT WAS THAT TIME.
SO I BASICALLY DID WHAT
I USUALLY DO WHEN I GO
TO A NEW COMPANY.
I TRY TODAY PAINT A PORTRAIT
OF A COMPANY I WAS WORKING WITH.
SO AS MUCH AS I WAS BRINGING
TO THEM, IT WAS WHAT THEY WERE
BRINGING TO ME.
SO IT WAS GETTING TO KNOW YOU
PROCESS, AND I WANTED TO USE
AS MANY DANCERS AS I COULD.
SO I MADE A BALLET THAT GAVE
A DUET TO MAYBE FIVE TO SEVEN
OF THE PRINCIPALS FROM THE
MOST SENIOR TO THE SORT OF
BUDDING YOUNG ONES.
AND I'D JUST COME OUT OF DOING
THE ACTRESS, WHICH HAD A LOT
OF DUET WORK IN IT,
BUT MAYBE MORE GENTLE.
I MISSED KAREN ENORMOUSLY WHILE
I WAS WORKING THERE BECAUSE
I HAD SUCH A BEAUTIFUL
EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH HER.
BUT I HAD TO DROP THAT AND
JUST JUMP IN AND REALLY PUSH
THOSE DANCERS AROUND A LITTLE
BIT, NOT LITERALLY, AND I
DON'T THINK I'D BE CALLED FOR
HARASSMENT OR ANYTHING, BUT I
REALLY MADE A VERY, VERY
DIFFICULT DANCE FOR THEM.
AND JUST THEIR SORT OF TRYING
TO GET THROUGH THE PROCESS,
I THOUGHT IT'S A CRUEL WORLD.
SO WHENEVER THEY SAID THIS
IS REALLY HARD, I SAID,
IT'S A CRUEL WORLD.

Richard says YOU TALKED ABOUT PUSHING
THE DANCERS QUITE A BIT IN
CRUEL WORLD, AND THAT THEME
KEEPS OCCURRING, THAT, YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE SAY JAMES REALLY PUSHES
THE DANCERS TO THE LIMIT.
AND THE DIMESTORE PSYCHOLOGY
IS, WELL, JAMES DOESN'T DANCE
ANYMORE, SO HE MAKES
DANCERS DO IT FOR HIM.
IS THAT A CHEAP WAY OUT,
OR IS THERE A REAL REASON?

James says I THINK IN THE ORIGINAL
MOMENT WHEN THE PIECES STARTED
TO GET -- WELL THE
PIECES WERE ALWAYS HARD,
EVEN WHEN I
WAS
DANCING.
AND I THINK THERE IS A
VICARIOUS EMOTIONAL THING
THAT GOES ON.
BUT BELIEVE IT OR NOT, AND
MOST DANCERS WON'T, I AM
TRYING TO BE AWARE THAT THEY
ARE TOO HARD, AND THAT I HAVE
TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

Richard says RIGHT.
COMING BACK TO WHERE WE
STARTED, ABOUT YOU WHO BEGAN
AT THE NATIONAL BALLET,
NOW BEING IN CHARGE OF THE
NATIONAL BALLET, I RECALL YOU
SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT YOU
WERE ADJUSTING THE CHILDREN
WHO WERE GOING TO BE IN
NUTCRACKER
AND THAT BECAUSE
YOU DIDN'T WANT THEM TO LOSE
THEIR CHRISTMASES, AND LOSE
THEIR LIVES LIKE YOU HAD.

James says YEAH.

Richard says I OFTEN WONDER IF YOU ARE
LOOKING BACK AT WHAT HAPPENED
TO YOU, AND WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN
TO YOU, AND IF YOU SPOTTED A
YOUNG JAMES KUDELKA, OR
SOMEONE CLOSE TO THAT, WHO WAS
IN THE SCHOOL AT TEN, AND
COMING UP AND UP AND UP, WOULD
YOU DO ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY
WITH THEM SO YOU MIGHT NOT
FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT YOUR
YOUTH THAT YOU FEEL NOW?

James says I THINK I STARTED, AS YOU
SAID, BY MAKING SURE THAT THE
REALLY YOUNG ONES WERE GOING
TO BE HOME FOR CHRISTMAS.
IT ACTUALLY CAME UP IN A
MEETING RECENTLY, ABOUT THIS
YEAR'S ONE BECAUSE OF THE
SHORTAGE OF BOYS, WE ACTUALLY
HAVE TO USE SOME YOUNGER ONES,
BUT THAT ARE, IN FACT, PEOPLE
WHO LIVE IN TORONTO SO THEY
WILL BE ABLE TO WAKE UP AT
HOME ON CHRISTMAS MORNING.
WE ACTUALLY HAD PERFORMANCES
ON CHRISTMAS DAY
AT THAT TIME, TOO.
YOU KNOW, I GUESS, WHAT DO
THEY CALL IT, A DICHOTOMY THAT
AT THE SAME TIME I AM TRYING
TO BE VERY, VERY GENTLE, AND
BE REALLY, REALLY CAREFUL
ABOUT IT, I ALSO CREATE SOME
OF THE HARDEST DANCES THAT ARE
OUT THERE TO BE DANCED TODAY.
I'M NOT SURE WHETHER I CAN
FIGURE OUT HOW TO PUT THOSE
TWO THINGS TOGETHER.
IT'S A CASE OF --

Richard says SO IF YOU SPOTTED
THAT YOUNG PERSON,
WOULD YOU TAKE THEM
AND PUSH THEM AHEAD OR...?

James says YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY, REALLY
CAREFUL WITH THOSE YOUNG ONES
BECAUSE THE ONES AT 10 AND
12 WHO HAVE A REAL LIGHT BEHIND
THEIR EYES, AND IF YOU PUSH
THEM REALLY HARD IN THE
BEGINNING, THEY REALLY START
TO FLICKER, AND SOMETIMES
THEY GO OUT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I'M A LITTLE
NEW IN THIS POSITION
AT THIS MOMENT.
I'M WATCHING IT
QUITE CLOSELY.
IT'S INTERESTING THERE ARE
PERSONALITIES, FROM PASTORAL,
ONWARDS, ACTUALLY.
BECAUSE THERE WERE KIDS IN
PASTORAL WHO ARE NOW IN THE
COMPANY, SO THEY HAVE
WORKED WITH ME OVER TIME.
I TRY TO WORK QUITE
CLOSELY WITH MAVIS STAYNES
WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE
SCHOOL, AND SHE AND I BOTH
WENT TO THE SCHOOL AROUND THE
SAME TIME, SO WE ARE PRETTY
AWARE OF WHAT WE WERE
FEELING AT THE TIME.
I THINK THE SITUATION HAS
IMPROVED A LOT BECAUSE WE'VE
BEEN THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE,
AND WE'RE NOT THE FOUNDERS,
WE'RE SORT OF THE FIRST
GENERATION TAKEOVER.
AND WE MAY GO TOO FAR IN
SORT OF A SOFT DIRECTION.
BALLET IS JUST SO HARD,
AND THE DISCIPLINE IS SO
IMPORTANT, AND YET
IT ALSO SAVED ME.
AND I THINK IT COULD BE
SAVING A LOT OF KIDS.

Richard says SAVED YOU FROM WHAT?

James says THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.
PERHAPS.

Richard says IF JAMES KUDELKA HAD NOT
GONE TO THE NATIONAL BALLET
SCHOOL, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA
WHERE YOU WOULD BE TODAY?

James says I'VE ALWAYS SAID I MIGHT HAVE
BECOME A MUSICIAN BECAUSE I
THINK I WOULD HAVE BEEN IN
MUSIC, IF NOT IN DANCE.
BECAUSE I DID PLAY THE VIOLIN
AT THE SAME TIME I WAS TAKING
DANCE LESSONS.
I HAD RATHER SMALL HANDS, SO I
THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD
TO HAVE STARTED YOUNG INTO
THOSE KIND OF THINGS TO KIND
OF GET THE STRETCH
ONE WOULD NEED FOR IT.
I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I SUSPECT BECAUSE MY
BROTHERS AND SISTERS ALL HAVE
VOCATIONS THAT I WOULD
HAVE FOUND ONE, BUT I AM
THE ODD ONE OUT.
I'M THE ONE GAY ONE IN THE
FAMILY, SO PERHAPS THERE WOULD
HAVE BEEN SOMETHING DIFFERENT,
BUT I THINK I WOULD HAVE BEEN
IN THE ART WORLD.

Richard says AND EVERYTHING SEEMS
TO BE GOING RIGHT.
DO YOU THINK YOU'RE HAPPY?

James says WOW, THAT WAS GREAT INFLECTION.
DO YOU THINK YOU'RE HAPPY?
THIS IS A VERY,
VERY EXCITING TIME,
TAKING OVER THIS COMPANY.
I GUESS THERE ARE DIFFERENT
LEVELS OF HAPPINESS.
IT'S THE BEST JOB IN THE
WORLD, AND THAT MAKES ME
VERY HAPPY.
I DO PINE FOR
TIME TO MYSELF,
AND I LOOK FORWARD
TO THAT, ALSO.

Richard says AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO WHAT
YOU ARE GOING TO BE DOING FOR
US AT THE NATIONAL BALLET.

James says OKAY.

Richard says JAMES, THANK YOU.

James says THANKS, RICHARD.

Richards faces the screen and says
JAMES KUDELKA.
HE MAY CREATE BALLETS WITH
NAMES LIKE
CRUEL WORLD,
BUT THE WORLD IS RATHER
GOOD TO HIM AT THE MOMENT.
AND IT'S GOOD TO US, AS WELL.
FOR DIALOGUE, I'M
RICHARD OUZOUNIAN.
GOOD-BYE FOR NOW.

Music plays as the end slate reads “Dialogue.”

A production of TVOntario. Copyright 1996, The Ontario Educational Communications Authority.

Watch: James Kudelka