Transcript: Fourth Reading V - The Planning Act | Dec 04, 1994

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve Paikin says THIS WEEK...
FREEDOM TO GROW
OR TIGHTENING THE GRIP?

A clip of farmland appears on screen with a tractor tilling the land. Ted Barry appears on screen. Ted is in his sixties with short white hair, wearing a black newsboy cap, is clean-shaven, and wears a jean jacket and a blue shirt.

Ted Barry says THEY STILL HAVEN'T GOT
THE RIGHT TO RESTRICT
MY PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Steve Paikin says THE NDP PASSES
ITS CONTROVERSIAL PLANNING ACT.

A clip appears on screen of a board room with a title on the door that reads "Ontario Municipal Board."

Steve says THIS IS FOURTH READING.

In the studio, Steve sits at a table in the shape of a 4. Steve is in his thirties, has short, dark, curly brown hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a gray blazer and solid black shirt.

Steve says HI, EVERYBODY.
WELCOME TO ANOTHER
EDITION OF
FOURTH READING.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
AFTER YEARS OF ENDLESS DEBATE
AND STUDY, THE ONTARIO
GOVERNMENT PASSED A NEW
PLANNING ACT THIS WEEK.
IT IS THE PRIDE OF
ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND SERIOUS
URBAN PLANNERS, BUT A LOT
OF PEOPLE IN RURAL AREAS
AREN'T SO JOYOUS.
THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THE NEW
BILL, CALLED BILL 163, GIVES
MUNICIPALITIES MORE CONTROL
OVER PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT.
THE NDP ALSO BOASTS THAT IT
WILL PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT
AND CUT RED TAPE, BUT CRITICS
THINK THE BILL ERODES PROPERTY
RIGHTS IN ITS ATTEMPT TO
PROTECT PRIME AGRICULTURAL LAND.

A clip of Ted Barry appears on screen.

Ted Barry says I WANT A FUTURE FOR MY
CHILDREN, YOU KNOW,
SO THAT'S MY BIGGEST PROBLEM
RIGHT THERE, IS PROPERTY
RIGHTS ARE BEING
ERODED BY BILL 163.

Steve says TED BARRY IS A
FARMER NEAR STOUFFVILLE,
NORTH OF TORONTO.
HE SAYS BILL 163
GOES TOO FAR.

A caption reads "Ted Barry, Farmer" and Ted Barry says LIKE, I'VE LIVED
HERE FOR 40 YEARS.
I'VE MADE ALL MY
LIVING FROM FARMING.
NOW SOCIETY OWES ME THE RIGHT
TO SELL THIS PROPERTY TO THE
HIGHEST BIDDER.
AND BY PUTTING
RESTRICTIONS ON IT,
THE HIGHEST BIDDER
HAS TO BE A FARMER.
SO THAT IS AN AWFUL LOT LESS
MONEY THAN A DEVELOPER.

Steve says GLENN DAVIS SPEAKS FOR
THE ONTARIO PROPERTY AND
ENVIRONMENTAL RIGHTS ALLIANCE.
THE GROUP SAYS THE NEW LAW
IGNORES THE NEEDS OF RURAL
LAND OWNERS.

Glenn Davis walks up to Ted Barry to shake his hand on the farm. Glenn is in his sixties, has short, white hair under a black baseball cap, wears large glasses, is clean-shaven, and wears a red jacket over a green shirt with a black sweater.

Glenn Davis says I THINK WE HAVE A GREAT
AMOUNT OF PRESSURE FROM
DOWNTOWN TORONTO.
A LOT OF THE RULES ARE MADE
DOWN THERE, AND IT ANNOYS US
BECAUSE WE DON'T MAKE RULES
FOR DOWNTOWN TORONTO.

Steve says JOHN SEWELL CHAIRED THE
COMMISSION ON PLANNING REFORM.
MOST OF HIS RECOMMENDATIONS
WERE INCLUDED IN THE BILL.

Now John Sewell appears on screen walking into his office with a caption that reads "John Sewell, Commission Chair." John is in his sixties, has short, balding dark brown hair, wears large glasses, is clean-shaven, and wears a gray suit, white shirt, and yellowish patterned tie.

John Sewell says I GUESS
EVERYBODY CAN SAY CHANGE IS
GOING TO HURT ME.
WE'RE SAYING THAT AGRICULTURAL
LAND SHOULD BE USED FOR
AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES.
AND I KNOW THAT A LOT
OF FARMERS ARE GOING TO
SAY, "THAT'S NOT FAIR.
I WANT TO SELL IT OFF
AS A DEVELOPMENT SITE."
WELL, SORRY, WE THINK THAT
GOOD AGRICULTURAL LAND SHOULD
BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE.

Now a clip of the Ontario Board appears on screen.

Steve says THE CHANGES ALSO TRY TO
MAKE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS MORE
OPEN AND ACCOUNTABLE.
IT REQUIRES POLITICIANS TO
DISCLOSE PERSONAL FINANCIAL
INFORMATION TO PREVENT
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.
IT ALSO REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF
TIME THAT LOCAL POLITICIANS
CAN MEET BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THE BILL
IS A BALANCING ACT AMONG
COMMUNITIES, THE ECONOMY
AND THE ENVIRONMENT.

Now clips of the community and the environment appear on screen.

Steve continues IT GIVES LOCAL GOVERNMENTS
MORE CONTROL OVER PLANNING AND
DEVELOPMENT; HOWEVER, IT ALSO
ENSURES THIS COMPLIES WITH
PROVINCIAL POLICIES.
CRITICS CALL THE
BILL A FAILURE.
THEY SAY REQUIRING THE
PROVINCE TO APPROVE LOCAL
OFFICIAL PLANS WILL
BE TOO EXPENSIVE.

Now Bernard Grandmaitre appears on screen with a caption that reads "Bernard Grandmaitre, Liberal Municipal Affairs Critic." Bernard Grandmaitre is in his fifties, has short, dark gray hair, has large glasses, is clean-shaven, and wears a black suit, white shirt, and dark tie.

Bernard Grandmaitre says WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR SIX
MUNICIPALITIES IN METRO,
AND WE DON'T HAVE AN
OFFICIAL PLAN, YOU IMAGINE
THE COST OF THIS METRO OFFICIAL
PLAN, AND KNOWING THAT THE
MINISTRY WILL HAVE THE LAST
SAY BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBLE
PROVINCIAL INTEREST.
IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG
AND COSTLY PROCESS.

Back in the studio, Steve says OKAY.
WITH US TO TALK ABOUT THE
IMPLICATIONS FOR US ALL IS
ED PHILIP.
HE'S THE MINISTER FOR
MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS.
WELCOME, MINISTER.
APPRECIATE YOU
BEING HERE TODAY.

Ed Philip appears on screen sitting across the desk from Steve. Ed is in his sixties, has short, straight, side-parted white hair, has large glasses, is clean-shaven, and wears a blue suit, white shirt, and red patterned tie.

Ed Philip says PLEASED
TO BE HERE, STEVE.

Steve continues OUR PANELISTS AS WELL
ARE QUEEN'S PARK WATCHERS,
HUGH MACKENZIE, FORMER
AID TO PREMIER BOB RAE,
NOW WORKING IN THE
NATIONAL OFFICE OF THE
UNITED STEELWORKERS.

Hugh Mackenzie appears on screen. Hugh is in his fifties, has short, side-parted gray hair, wears big thin-rimmed glasses, is clean-shaven, and wears a brown suit, white shirt, and patterned black, gray, and yellow tie.

Steve continues THERE'S JANE PEPINO, LONG-TIME
ONTARIO TORY ACTIVIST
AND LAWYER.

Jane Pepino appears on screen. Jane is in her forties, has short, straight gray hair cut in the shape of a bob, and wears a textured pink and black blazer.

Steve continues AND PATRICK GOSSAGE,
FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO
PRIME MINISTER PIERRE TRUDEAU,
NOW THE HEAD OF HIS OWN
COMMUNICATIONS
CONSULTING OUTFIT.

Patrick Gossage appears on screen. Patrick Gossage is in his fifties, has short, side-parted, light gray hair, wears large glasses, is clean-shaven, and wears a gray suit, white pinstriped shirt, and a black polka dot tie.

Steve continues OKAY, LET ME GET INTO ONE
ASPECT OF THIS THING THAT MAY
HAVE SOME PEOPLE CONCERNED.
LOCAL COUNCILLORS REQUIRED TO
HOLD ALL MEETINGS IN PUBLIC,
PERSONAL FINANCIAL INFORMATION
ABOUT LOCAL COUNCILLORS HAVING
TO BE DISCLOSED NOW.
I ASSUME THESE ARE IN THIS
BILL NOW BECAUSE THESE THINGS
HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM
IN THE PAST.
IS THAT THE CASE?

Ed Philip appears on screen with a caption that reads "Ed Philip, Minister of Municipal Affairs."

Ed Philip says WELL, THEY CERTAINLY
WERE A PROBLEM.
IN THE '80s, OF COURSE, WE
HAD THE PATTY STARR AND BUY A
POLITICIAN FOR A DONATION
TO A POLITICAL PARTY SORT OF
PHENOMENA THAT HAPPENED, AND
OF COURSE, SOME PEOPLE HAVE
GONE TO JAIL FOR THAT.
AT THE TIME THAT WE TOOK
GOVERNMENT, WE HAD PEOPLE THAT
WERE SAYING THEY WANTED
GOVERNMENT TO BE MORE
TRANSPARENT, AND INDEED, A
LOT OF MUNICIPAL PEOPLE WERE
SAYING LOOK IT, WE RUN
OUR ACT REALLY OPENLY.
WE HAVE A COUNCIL THAT
HOLDS MEETINGS IN PUBLIC,
THAT DOESN'T HIDE THINGS.
WE DON'T MEET WITH DEVELOPERS
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, AND WE'RE
GETTING TIED AND TARRED AND
FEATHERED BY A FEW BAD ACTORS,
THE LET'S MAKE A DEAL
DEVELOPERS IN THE BACKROOMS
WITH A FEW POLITICIANS, AND
WE WANT THIS CLEANED UP.

Steve says SO, IN FACT, THERE
ARE TOO MANY COUNCILS,
YOU BELIEVE, ACROSS ONTARIO
RIGHT NOW WHICH ARE HAVING TOO
MANY BEHIND CLOSED DOORS
MEETINGS, AND TOO MANY COZY,
COZY RELATIONSHIPS
WITH DEVELOPERS.

Ed Philip says I GET BETWEEN 300 AND
500 -- AND, INDEED, I'M
SURE THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT
DID -- COMPLAINTS A YEAR.
NOW, SOME OF THOSE ARE FOR
COMMISSIONS OF INQUIRIES.
THEY'RE VERY EXPENSIVE
ON LOCAL TAXPAYERS.
WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE MADE
GOVERNMENT MORE TRANSPARENT,
MORE OPEN AND, INDEED, WE
WORKED WITH THE ASSOCIATION
OF MUNICIPALITIES IN
DEVELOPING THESE RULES.
WE HAD SOME VERY GOOD FEEDBACK
FROM THEM, AND WE'VE DEVELOPED
RULES THAT DO NOT, I BELIEVE
AND INDEED THEY BELIEVE, DO
NOT INTERFERE WITH THE RIGHT
OF PRIVACY OF PEOPLE THAT WANT
TO RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE,
BUT AT THE SAME TIME,
GIVE A TRANSPARENCY TO
RATEPAYERS AND, INDEED,
TO DEVELOPERS WHO WANT
TO BE TREATED FAIRLY,
THE SAME WAY AS OTHER
DEVELOPERS AND NOT HAVE
CERTAIN PEOPLE GETTING
CERTAIN PRIVILEGES.

Steve says OKAY.
WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS
OF PRIVATE PROPERTY?
WE SAW A COUPLE OF FARMERS
IN THE BACKGROUND PIECE
SAYING HEY, THIS IS MY LAND.
I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO
SELL IT TO WHOM I WANT TO.
THERE ARE SOME CIRCUMSTANCES,
WE'RE TOLD, WHERE YOU CAN'T
EVEN PUT UP A FENCE ON YOUR
PROPERTY BECAUSE THIS NEW ACT
DECIDES THAT IT'S SOMEHOW
ENVIRONMENTALLY UNWISE OR
THERE IS SOMETHING TO PROTECT.

Ed Philip says THAT'S NOT TRUE.

Steve says WELL, THAT'S WHAT THEY TOLD
US, AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S
NOT THE CASE.

Ed Philip says I'M SAYING
THAT ROMA AND ITS...

Steve says ROMA MEANING RURAL
ONTARIO MUNICIPALITIES
ASSOCIATION, WHATEVER.

Ed Philip says AND, INDEED, THE ASSOCIATION
OF MUNICIPALITIES OF ONTARIO
HAS LOOKED AT IT.
THEY COMPLIMENTED THE
GOVERNMENT ON SOME CHANGES
WHICH THEY REQUESTED AND THAT
WE'VE PUT INTO THE ACT,
AND I'M SAYING THAT IT'S
UNFORTUNATE THAT THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY, AND AL
MCLEAN IN PARTICULAR, HAS
ASSOCIATED HIMSELF WITH A VERY
EXTREME RIGHT WING GROUP,
A PROPERTIES RIGHT GROUP WHICH
IS REMINISCENT MORE OF
AMERICAN-STYLE
RIGHT WING POLITICS.
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT THE
AVERAGE PERSON WHO HAS PUT IN
THEIR LIFE SAVINGS INTO A HOME
WANTS A DEVELOPER TO BUILD A
HIGH RISE BEHIND THEM WITHOUT
THEM HAVING SOME SAY IN IT.
THAT'S THE KIND OF POSITION,
THAT KIND OF ULTRA RIGHT WING,
LAISSEZ FAIRE POSITION THAT
THIS PROPERTY RIGHTS GROUP
HAS ASSOCIATED
THEMSELVES WITH.

Steve says THIS IS OPERA
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Ed Philip says OPERA HAS AN AD THAT
IS COMPLETELY FALSE,
THAT HAS LIES IN IT.

Steve says YOU WANT TO
SHOW IT TO US?

Ed Philip says I'D LOVE TO
SHOW IT TO YOU.
IT SAYS, FOR
EXAMPLE...

Steve says CAMERA THREE,
OVER HERE.

Ed Philip says IT SAYS IT WOULD
DECREASE THE VALUE OF
ALL LAND AND FAMILY TAXES.
IT WOULD INCREASE PROPERTY
TAXES, THOUGH OF COURSE, MIKE
HARRIS' POLICIES, BY
DECREASING TRANSFERS TO
MUNICIPALITIES WILL INCREASE
PROPERTY TAXES.
EITHER THAT OR YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO GET YOUR GARBAGE
COLLECTED IF MIKE HARRIS
WERE TO FORM A GOVERNMENT.
IT WOULD DICTATE WHERE YOU CAN
BUILD A NEW BARN OR A HOUSE.
NONSENSE!
THERE'S NOTHING IN THE
ACT THAT DOES THAT.
IT WOULD REQUIRE ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENTS FOR FARM ANIMAL
AND CROP EXPANSION.
NONSENSE!
THERE'S NOTHING IN THE ACT
THAT WOULD PROHIBIT THE
HARVESTING OF WOOD LOTS.
NONSENSE!
THERE'S NOTHING...

Steve says OKAY, I THINK WE
GET THE MESSAGE HERE.

Ed Philip says THESE ARE LIES, AND
IT'S TOO BAD THAT MIKE HARRIS
AND THE CONSERVATIVES
ARE ASSOCIATING THEMSELVES
WITH THIS RIGHT WING
EXTREMIST GROUP.

Steve says JANE HAS COME TONIGHT
WITH, LIKE, A STACK
FULL OF STUFF HERE.

Patrick Gossage says SHE HAS A
15-MINUTE SPEECH.

Steve says WE GOTTA SAVE HER SOME
TIME HERE TO GET ROLLING.

Jane Pepino says THANK YOU.
Steve says OKAY,
JANE, YOU'RE ON.

Jane Pepino says WHERE DO YOU WANT
ME TO START?

Steve says WELL,
YOU TELL ME.

Jane Pepino appears on screen with a caption that reads "Jane Pepino, Ontario Tory Activist."

Jane Pepino says OKAY, LET ME START THIS
WAY AND BRING IT BACK TO
WHAT I THINK IS
THE REAL ISSUE.
THE GOVERNMENT CAME THROUGH
WITH A NEW PLANNING ACT AND
MADE A PROMISE, ON THE
EXPECTATION THAT IT WOULD MAKE
A MORE EFFICIENT AND
ACCOUNTABLE PROCESS THAT WOULD
ENSHRINE AND BETTER PROTECT THE
ENVIRONMENT AND WOULD KEEP
THE PROCESS OPEN.
I THINK THAT YOU'VE PROBABLY
SUCCEEDED MORE THAN ANYONE'S
EXPECTATION OR HOPE, AND
INDEED TO THE HORROR OF MANY
PEOPLE, ON PROTECTING
THE ENVIRONMENT.
FOUR POLICIES HAVE NOW
BURGEONED INTO WHAT WE ARE
TOLD WILL BE 73 GUIDELINES.
WE HAD REPRESENTATIONS GIVEN
TODAY ABOUT THE KINDS OF
IMPACT THAT WILL HAVE
ON DEVELOPABLE LAND
WHEN IT IS PROPERLY PLANNED.

Steve says YOU WENT TO A
CONFERENCE ON THIS TODAY.

Jane Pepino says I DID INDEED.
AND IT IS SHOCKING.
AND I CAN TELL YOU
THE MUNICIPALITIES,
NOW THAT IT'S SINKING IN,
ARE REELING ABOUT THE IMPACT
THIS WILL HAVE.

Steve says WHY?
WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

Jane Pepino says THEY DON'T
HAVE THE EXPERTISE
OR THE FINANCES OR
RESOURCES TO UNDERTAKE
ALL THE NECESSARY STUDIES
THAT ARE GOING TO BE REQUIRED
OR TO REVIEW THE STUDIES
THAT WILL BE REQUIRED OF THE
PRIVATE SECTOR, AND THEREFORE,
THEY HAVE TWO CHOICES.
THEY EITHER HAVE TO ASK THE
PRIVATE SECTOR TO SPEND THAT
MUCH MORE TO MEET ALL THOSE NEW
REGULATIONS, OR THEY'LL HAVE
TO LEAVE IT WITH THE MINISTRY
OF NATURAL RESOURCES, WHICH
MEANS IT'S BUSINESS AS USUAL.
AND WHY THEN HAVE WE GONE
THROUGH THIS AGONY AND
LAYERED ON ALL THESE
ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS?
THE ONLY OTHER POINT I'D
LIKE TO MAKE, AND THEN...
BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY.
IS THAT, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE
GOVERNMENT SAID IT WOULD DO
WOULD MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT
PROCESS MORE STREAMLINED.

Steve says RIGHT, CUT RED TAPE.
THAT WAS A BIG DEAL.

Jane Pepino says ABSOLUTELY,
AND THE FACT IS IT HASN'T.
THERE WERE TWO PEOPLE THERE
FROM LARGE GTA MUNICIPALITIES
WHO SAID THEY'VE WORKED IT
THROUGH ON THEIR OWN PROCESSES.
ONE SAYS IT CAN'T POSSIBLY
MEET THE DEADLINES OF 180 DAYS,
AND THERE ARE NO SANCTIONS
IN THE BILL, SO... SO WHAT?
THEY'LL JUST KEEP ON DOING IT
THE WAY THEY'VE ALWAYS DONE IT
AND NOTHING BAD WILL HAPPEN.
THE OTHER SAYS THAT ALTHOUGH
THEY HAVE MADE THE 180 DAYS
UNDER THE OLD ACT, IT IS
IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE IT UNDER
THE NEW ACT.

Steve says 180 DAYS,
MEANING WHAT?

Jane Pepino says MEANING THAT ANY
APPLICATION THAT HAS BEEN
FINALLY ACCEPTED, AND THERE
ARE WHOLE NEW RULES ABOUT
THAT, MUST BE DEALT
WITH WITHIN 180 DAYS.

Steve says BY THE
LOCAL MUNICIPALITY.

Jane Pepino says BY THE SO-CALLED
APPROVING AUTHORITY.
THE PROBLEM, HOWEVER, IS THAT
BY REGULATION, THE PROVINCE
CAN PRESCRIBE WHAT
INFORMATION HAS TO BE DONE.
AND THE DRAFT REGULATIONS
WE'VE SEEN HAVE MADE IT CLEAR
THAT IT'S AN ENORMOUS TASK.

Steve says LET'S GET THE
MINISTER TO RESPOND.
YOU PROMISED TO
CUT RED TAPE.
HER BASIC POINT IS,
THIS WON'T DO IT.

Ed Philip says WELL,
WE HAVE DONE IT.
AND THE PROOF IS THAT, FOR
EXAMPLE, WE HAVE JUST TAKEN
A MAJOR PROPOSAL, A MAGNA
INTERNATIONAL PROPOSAL.
THAT WENT THROUGH USING
OUR NEW SYSTEM IN 22 DAYS.
THAT WAS A MAJOR
DEVELOPMENT.
WE TOOK THE OFFICIAL PLAN FOR
YORK THAT THE LIBERALS AND THE
CONSERVATIVES FAILED TO DO IN
20 YEARS, AND WE MANAGED USING
THE PROCESSES THAT JOHN
SEWELL AND HIS COMMISSION
HAS RECOMMENDED, AND WE
DID IT IN SIX MONTHS.
NOW, THERE YOU HAVE AN
OFFICIAL PLAN IN YORK,
AN
EXCELLENT
OFFICIAL PLAN.
YOU HAVE MAGNA PROPOSAL THAT
WENT THROUGH IN 22 DAYS.
IT DOES WORK.
WE'VE DONE IT.
WE DID IT USING THIS SET
OF SYSTEMS IN WHICH
THE THING IS FRONT-ENDED.
THE POLICY IS THERE.
PEOPLE KNOW WHAT
THE RULES ARE.
THE SYSTEM IS IN PLACE.

Steve says CAN I JUST
GET YOU ON THAT?
IS THIS NOT RIGHT?
IS WHAT HE'S
SAYING NOT RIGHT?

Jane Pepino says I WAS THE SOLICITOR FOR
MAGNA, AND THE FACT IS
IT WAS DONE UNDER
THE OLD ACT.
YOU DON'T NEED THE NEW
ACT TO DO WHAT WAS DONE.
IT WAS PUSHED THROUGH
POLITICALLY AND PARTIALLY
BECAUSE THERE WAS THE
OPPORTUNITY FOR JOB CREATION.
BUT IT WAS DONE
UNDER THE OLD ACT.

Ed Philip says COME ON,
JANE, BE HONEST.
UNDER THE CONSERVATIVE
GOVERNMENT THAT YOU SUPPORTED
OVER THE YEARS, IT WOULD HAVE
TAKEN MONTHS TO GET THAT DONE.
WE DID IT USING...

Jane Pepino says IT TOOK OVER 18 MONTHS,
MINISTER, TO DO.

Ed Philip says WE DID IT USING A
FACILITATOR THAT, IN FACT,
DALE MARTIN, WHICH IS
PART OF THE NEW ACT.
WE HAVE FACILITATORS AT BOTH
THE ONTARIO MUNICIPAL BOARD.
AND, IN FACT, UNDER THE SYSTEM
THAT YOU SUPPORT, THAT THE
CONSERVATIVES HAVE SUPPORTED,
IT CAN TAKE YEARS.
I HAD PLASTICS COMPANIES...

Jane Pepino says IT
CAN BUT IT NEEDN'T.

Ed Philip says AND IT DID.

Steve says OKAY,
LET ME JUST...
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T
KNOW, 'FACILITATOR',
THIS IS A NEW THING.
INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE
ONTARIO MUNICIPAL BOARD
EVERY TIME THERE'S A DISPUTE,
YOU CAN GO TO A FACILITATOR
WHO WILL HELP...
FIGURE THIS THING OUT.

Ed Philip says WHAT HAPPENS, STEVE, IS
THAT UNDER THE ONTARIO
MUNICIPAL BOARD AND,
INDEED, UNDER THE MINISTRY,
WE HAVE A FACILITATOR.
A FACILITATOR WILL MOVE IN
THE MOMENT THAT THERE IS AN
OBJECTION, SIT DOWN WITH THOSE
THAT ARE OBJECTING AND THOSE
THAT ARE PROPOSING IN
DEVELOPMENT AND SAY,
"WHAT ARE THE ISSUES?
ARE THERE WAYS IN WHICH
WE CAN LOOK AT THE ISSUES?
CAN WE RESOLVE THEM?"
AT THE VERY BEST, A
NUMBER OF THESE...

Steve says THE IDEA IS TO SAVE ON
A LOT OF LAWYERS' FEES AND...
AND IT WORKS MOST OF
THE TIME, DOESN'T IT?

Ed Philip says AND IT'S WORKED
FABULOUSLY WELL.
AS A MATTER OF FACT,
EVEN THOSE THAT EVENTUALLY
END UP AT THE ONTARIO
MUNICIPAL BOARD, AT LEAST
WHEN THEY'RE THERE,
THEY'RE MORE FOCUSED.
WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE
ISSUES ARE, AND THEY CUT DOWN
ON THE HEARING TIME.

Steve says LET ME GET
Mr. GOSSAGE IN HERE.

Patrick Gossage appears on screen with a caption that reads "Patrick Gossage, Former Aide to Pierre Trudeau."

Patrick Gossage says WELL, I
WAS JUST GOING TO MENTION
DALE MARTIN, SPEAKING
OF DALE MARTIN.
HE'S THE FACILITATOR.
YES, THE FACILITATOR
IN THIS CASE.
HE ALSO SPENT A LOT OF TIME,
I GATHER, LOOKING AT POWER
CENTRES, LOOKING AT THE
WAL-MARTS OF THE WORLD WHO
ESTABLISH THEMSELVES AT HUGE
INTERSECTIONS AND SO ON AND
SO FORTH, AND SUCK IMMENSE
AMOUNTS OF COMMERCE FROM OLDER
SHOPPING CENTRES IN DOWNTOWNS,
AND HE HAD SOME GUIDELINES, I
UNDERSTOOD, THAT WERE GOING TO
AT LEAST PUT SOME POLICIES
IN PLACE TO PUT SOME CONTROLS
ON THESE SO THAT THEY DIDN'T
COMPLETELY WIPE OUT WHOLE
MUNICIPALITIES WITHOUT...
AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT
Mr. SEWELL MUST HAVE HAD
A BURNING BUSH SOMEWHERE
BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT
YOU'RE FACILITATING THE
CREATION OF THESE KINDS
OF POWER CENTRES WITH
VERY LITTLE CONTROL.
I'D LIKE TO KNOW...

Ed Philip says WELL,
THAT ISN'T THE CASE.
SOME MUNICIPALITIES HAVE
EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THESE.
THEY EXPRESSED THE SAME
CONCERN WHEN THE CONSERVATIVES
WERE IN POWER ABOUT SHOPPING
CENTRES, THAT THEY WOULD
ELIMINATE... THAT THEY WOULD
ELIMINATE OTHER STORES.

Steve says SEWELL WAS AGAINST
THE EATON CENTRE EVEN.

Patrick Gossage says I
KNOW, I KNOW.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
LOOK WHAT HAPPENED
TO THIS GUY.

Ed Philip says THE FACT IS THAT
YOU CAN'T USE THE PLANNING ACT
TO CONTROL COMPETITION.
THERE ARE OTHERS WAY IN WHICH
YOU CAN INCREASE COMPETITION.
WE'RE THE FIRST GOVERNMENT
THAT IS ALLOWING
MUNICIPALITIES TO CO-VENTURE
WITH PRIVATE ENTERPRISE.
WE'RE SEEING PLACES LIKE
DOWNTOWN BURLINGTON EMERGE.
WE'RE SEEING NEW PLANS EMERGE
IN THE DOWNTOWN CORES OF A LOT
OF CITIES THAT ARE HELPING
SMALL BUSINESS AND ARE
CREATING SENSITIVE, MARVELLOUS
DOWNTOWN CENTRES IN CITIES
ACROSS THIS PROVINCE.
THE LIBERALS AND THE
CONSERVATIVES NEVER WERE ABLE
TO DO THIS.
WE'RE DOING IT.
YOU DON'T DO IT ENTIRELY
THROUGH THE PLANNING ACT.

Patrick Gossage says I THINK THAT'S
NONSENSE.

Steve says OKAY, ONE
AT A TIME.
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
YOU MENTIONED LIBERALS
AND CONSERVATIVES.
I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP
HERE FROM, I THINK,
ONE OF YOUR PREDECESSORS,
FORMER LIBERAL MUNICIPAL
AFFAIRS MINISTER,
BERNARD GRANDMAITRE,
WHO'S GOT SOMETHING TO
SAY ABOUT WHETHER LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS ARE, IN FACT,
GOING TO HAVE MORE SAY
OVER HOW THINGS
ARE DEVELOPED.
ALAN, LET'S
ROLL THAT CLIP.

The clip rolls and Bernard Grandmaitre appears on screen in his office.

Bernard Grandmaitre says NOW THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT
OR THE MINISTER WILL HAVE THE
LAST SAY IN PLANNING.
ALL OFFICIAL PLANS WILL HAVE
TO BE APPROVED BY THE MINISTRY
SO THAT THEY CAN BE COMPATIBLE
WITH THE PROVINCIAL INTERESTS.
AND I THINK THIS IS
ONE WAY OF SAYING,
'Mr. MUNICIPALITY, WE'RE GIVING
YOU SOME POWER, BUT WE ARE
RETAINING THE BIGGEST ONE,
AND THAT'S THE POWER TO SAY
NO OR YES TO YOUR
OFFICIAL PLAN'.

Back in the studio, Steve says IS HE RIGHT
ABOUT THAT?

Ed Philip says THE OFFICIAL PLANS HAVE TO
BE APPROVED BY THE PROVINCE.
THEY'VE ALWAYS
HAD TO BE.
THE DIFFERENCE THOUGH IS THAT,
UNLIKE UNDER THE LIBERALS,
THE PROVINCE IS NOT SECOND
GUESSING THE MUNICIPALITIES.
WE'RE ALLOWING MUNICIPALITIES
THE POWER TO, IN FACT, APPROVE
THEIR OWN AMENDMENTS, TO
APPROVE SUBDIVISIONS IN THEIR
MUNICIPALITIES AS THEY'VE
DEVELOPED THEIR OFFICIAL PLANS.

Steve says BUT THEY HAVE TO
ABIDE BY YOUR GUIDELINES,
DO THEY NOT?

Ed Philip says OH, YES, BUT
THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD TO
ABIDE BY THE GUIDELINES.

Steve says SO THEN WHAT'S
NEW ABOUT THIS?
IS THERE REAL NEW
AUTONOMY FOR LOCALITIES?

Ed Philip says NO, NO.
THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT INSTEAD
OF OUR HOLDING UP AT QUEEN'S
PARK A WHOLE BUNCH OF
DEVELOPMENTS, WHAT WE'RE DOING
IS WE'RE SETTING UP
THE POLICY UP FRONT.
THE POLICY, UNDER THE LIBERALS
AND CONSERVATIVES, WAS
SCATTERED ALL OVER THE PLACE,
WHICH, OF COURSE, ALLOWED FOR
THE PATTY STARRS OF THIS WORLD
AND OTHERS THEN TO OPERATE IN
THE BACK ROOMS BECAUSE
NOBODY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THE
POLICY WAS OR THERE WAS A
POLICY HERE, THERE WAS ANOTHER
POLICY THERE, THERE'S
ANOTHER POLICY THERE, SO...

Hugh Mackenzie appears on screen with a caption that reads "Hugh Mackenzie, Former Aide to Bob Rae."

Hugh Mackenzie says I THINK THE
CRITICAL DIFFERENCE IS THAT
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
AD HOC PLANNING AND SETTING
OUT THE GROUND
RULES BEFOREHAND.
YES, THE PROVINCE IS GOING TO
CONTINUE TO HAVE TO APPROVE
OFFICIAL PLANS, BUT THERE
WILL BE A CLEAR INDICATION
OF WHAT THE PROVINCIAL
FRAMEWORK IS WITHIN WHICH
THOSE PLANS GET APPROVED.
THAT'S THE CRITICAL
DIFFERENCE.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT'S
REALLY CRITICAL, I THINK, IN
THE APPROACH THAT THE
GOVERNMENT'S TAKEN IS THAT IN
THE LAST ROUND OF
AMENDMENTS THAT THEY BROUGHT
INTO THE BILL, THEY DECIDED TO
FOREGO THE RIGHT THAT'S IN THE
EXISTING ACT TO DECLARE A
PROVINCIAL INTEREST AND TURN
THINGS UPSIDE DOWN.

Jane Pepino says TWO POINTS.
FIRST, THERE HAS ALWAYS
BEEN THE RIGHT FOR PROVINCES
TO PUT THEIR
POLICIES OUT THERE, AND
GOVERNMENT JUST HASN'T GOTTEN
AROUND TO DOING IT, SO YOU...

Ed Philip says THEN WHY
DID NOBODY KNOW THEM?

Jane Pepino says YOU DIDN'T NEED TO CHANGE
THE ACT TO DO THAT.
SECONDLY, WITH REGARD TO
THAT SOP AT THE LAST MINUTE
THAT WAS THROWN OUT TO
AMO, THE FACT IS THERE IS
NOW A TREMENDOUS
CENTRALIZATION OF PLANNING
POLICY DECISIONS AT QUEEN'S
PARK, THE MINISTER MAINTAINS
THE OPPORTUNITY TO SET
PRESCRIPTION AND REGULATION
AND, IN FACT, CAN CONTINUE TO
DECLARE WHAT ARE EFFECTIVELY
ZONING ORDERS IN WHOLE
AREAS OF THE PROVINCE.

Steve says GOT 20 SECONDS LEFT,
MINISTER, WHY DON'T YOU
TAKE IT AND RESPOND.

Ed Philip says WELL, ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT
JANE OBVIOUSLY HASN'T READ
THE BILL OR SHE
WOULDN'T SAY THAT.

Jane Pepino says I'VE READ IT
BEGINNING TO END...
INCLUDING SECTION
72, MINISTER.

Patrick Gossage says SHE MAKES 400 DOLLARS AN HOUR
TO READ THIS BILL,
LET ME TELL YOU.

Ed Philip says THE POLICY, IN FACT,
DECENTRALIZES THE SYSTEM.
POLICY IS
UNDERSTOOD UP FRONT.
FRIENDS OF MINE WHO ARE IN THE
DEVELOPMENT INDUSTRY SAY THAT
UNDER THE LIBERALS AND
CONSERVATIVES, THEY DIDN'T
KNOW WHAT THE POLICY WAS, AND
THAT'S WHY THERE WAS SO MUCH
BACK ROOM ACTIVITY AND THAT'S
WHY THERE WERE SO MANY
SCANDALS UNDER THE LIBERALS
AND CONSERVATIVES...
MORE PARTICULARLY
UNDER THE LIBERALS.

Jane Pepino says THIS
BILL WAS NOT REQUIRED.

Steve says ON THAT, ON THAT
NON-PARTISAN NOTE...
ON THAT NON-PARTISAN NOTE,
I GOT TO LEAVE IT THERE.
MINISTER, THANKS SO MUCH
FOR COMING IN TONIGHT.
ED PHILIP, MINISTER
OF MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS.

Ed Philip says MY PLEASURE.
THANKS SO MUCH.

Steve says WELL, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE
THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING AT
QUEEN'S PARK COULD HAVE ANY
BEARING AT ALL ON THE MAJOR
LEAGUE BASEBALL
PLAYERS STRIKE.
THINK AGAIN.
IF THE PLAYERS AND OWNERS FAIL
TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT BEFORE
THE NEXT SEASON BEGINS, THE
OWNERS HAVE SAID THAT THEY
WILL USE MINOR LEAGUE
BALLPLAYERS INSTEAD, AND THAT
COULD BE A PROBLEM FOR THE
TORONTO BLUE JAYS BECAUSE
OF ONTARIO'S LABOUR LAWS.
REMEMBER BILL 40?
NO REPLACEMENT WORKERS
ALLOWED TO TAKE THE PLACE
OF STRIKING WORKERS?
WELL, THAT LAW COULD COME INTO
PLAY AS MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR
PLAYERS TAKE ON EQUALLY
WEALTHY OWNERS.
AND IT PROMPTED SOME AMUSING
DEBATE IN THE LEGISLATURE
EARLIER THIS WEEK.

A clip rolls of Queen’s Park.

Mike Harris appears on screen. He is in his fifties, has side-parted silvery hair, and is clean-shaven stands and says WHEN WE LOOK AT 28 OTHER
TEAMS IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES,
INSIDE AND OUTSIDE OF
CANADA, DOESN'T THIS SEND A
LITTLE ALARM BELL OFF THAT
MAYBE YOUR BILL 40 LABOUR
LEGISLATION IS OUT OF STEP
WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD?

A woman in her fifties with short, feathery, light blond hair, and thick glasses, stands and says OUR LEGISLATION IS ONLY
MANDATED IN THIS PROVINCE
AND HAS NO EFFECT ON
THE OTHER COUNTRIES.
[applause]

Mike Harris says STRIKE ONE.
[laughter]
EVERY TIME, EVERY TIME...
[laughter]
EVERY TIME THERE IS A BLUE
JAY GAME IN TORONTO...
OVER 2,300 PEOPLE ARE
DIRECTLY EMPLOYED.
THAT DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT
THE THOUSANDS OF INDIRECT JOBS
THAT ARE GENERATED.
MINISTER, IF THE MAJOR LEAGUE
STRIKE CONTINUES, THESE JOBS
MAY BE LOST AS A RESULT OF BILL
40, YOUR LABOUR LEGISLATION.

The woman with feathery blond hair says I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE
MEMBER TO SPEAK TO HIS
FRIENDS, THE OWNERS, AND
HELP RESOLVE THIS STRIKE.

Mike Harris says STRIKE TWO!
[laughter]
[applause]
BILL 40 KILLS JOBS
FOR ONTARIO WORKERS.
[applause]

The woman with feathery blond hair says BEFORE YOU STRIKE ME OUT,
I THINK YOU'RE TOTALLY
FOUL ON THIS MATTER.
[laughter and applause]
WHY ARE YOU SO AGAINST WORKING
PEOPLE IN THIS PROVINCE?
[applause]
WHY DO YOU HATE
THOSE PEOPLE?
[applause]
YOU KEEP TALKING AS IF YOU'RE
GOING TO BE THE PREMIER.
SIR, YOU WILL REPRESENT
ALL
PEOPLE, AND I'M PROUD I'M A
NEW DEMOCRAT AND I CARE
ABOUT WORKING PEOPLE.
YOU HAVE STRUCK
OUT ON THAT.

Mike Harris says STRIKE THREE,
YOU'RE OUT!
[cheering and laughter]

Back in the studio, Steve says OKAY.
QUESTION IS, IS MIKE
HARRIS RIGHT ABOUT THAT?
IS THIS AN EXAMPLE OF
BILL 40 ELIMINATING JOBS?

Hugh Mackenzie says WELL, THERE'S JUST NO
EVIDENCE FOR THE MAIN
POINT THAT HE'S MAKING, BUT
JUST ON A PERSONAL LEVEL,
IF BILL 40 HAS ANYTHING TO DO
WITH PREVENTING THE SPECTACLE
OF MINOR LEAGUE PLAYERS
DEFILING THE SKYDOME IN
THE BASEBALL SEASON,
IT'S WORTH IT.

Steve says THEN YOU'RE
ALL FOR IT?
THAT'S RIGHT.

Jane Pepino says GEE,
YOU KNOW WHAT?
WITH THE PITCHING WE HAD
LAST SEASON JUST BEFORE
THE STRIKE, I THOUGHT WE
DID
HAVE MINOR LEAGUE PLAYERS
IN THOSE UNIFORMS.

Steve says MIGHT
NOT BE ANY WORSE.
I MEAN HARRIS OBVIOUSLY IS
NOT GOING TO BAT FOR THE
MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR
BALLPLAYERS HERE, BUT HE IS
SAYING THAT, BY PROHIBITING
REPLACEMENT PLAYERS FROM
COMING IN AND BEING THE JAYS
OF NEXT YEAR, I GUESS, THAT ALL
THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THEIR
LIVING OFF BASEBALL...
THE GUYS WHO SELL THE HOT
DOGS OUTSIDE THE STADIUMS,
THE PROGRAM SELLERS, THE
VENDORS AND SO ON -- THOSE ARE,
IN FACT, LOST JOBS.

Hugh Mackenzie says LET'S TALK ABOUT
SOMETHING REAL.
I MEAN... MY GOODNESS.

Steve says IS HE NOT
RIGHT ABOUT THAT?

Jane Pepino says IT'S
A GOOD EXAMPLE.
HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST ONE
OTHER EXAMPLE OF WHAT
THE EFFECT HAS BEEN.
IN THE UNITED STATES, THEY CAN
SERIOUSLY HAVE THE DISCUSSION
ABOUT SOMEHOW TRYING
TO SALVAGE THE SEASON,
GET THE YEAR GOING.
UP HERE, WE ARE
ABSOLUTELY HANDCUFFED.
WE CAN'T DISCUSS IT.

Patrick Gossage says CAN YOU
BELIEVE FOR A MOMENT THOUGH
THAT THIS GOVERNMENT'S GOING
TO TAKE THE HEAT OVER THIS
SITUATION IF IT
REALLY OCCURS?
NOT FOR A MOMENT.
IN A PRE-ELECTORAL
PERIOD?
COME ON, STEVE.
THEY'LL BUCKLE UNDER LIKE
ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT WOULD.

Steve says BUT THERE IS
THE SPECTRE...
I MEAN, IT IS KIND
OF INTERESTING.
THERE ARE 28 OTHER CITIES
WHERE THIS IS HAPPENING...
OR I GUESS 26 BECAUSE
CHICAGO'S GOT TWO TEAMS.

Patrick Gossage says
WE'RE THE ONLY ONES.
NEW YORK'S
GOT TWO TEAMS.

Steve says THIS IS THE ONLY
PLACE WHERE THEY SAY...

Hugh Mackenzie says THE EXPOS AS WELL.

Steve says WELL, FUNNILY ENOUGH,
THEIR LEGAL ADVISORS
DON'T THINK THAT THEIR
ANTI-SCAB LAW, IF YOU
WANT TO CALL IT
THAT, WILL PLAY.

Hugh Mackenzie says BUT THIS ALSO
ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THAT
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CANADIAN
LABOUR LAW AND AMERICAN LABOUR
LAW HAVE AFFECTED
THESE THINGS.
THERE WAS A POINT DURING THE
SUMMER WHEN THE OWNERS WERE
TALKING ABOUT UNILATERALLY
IMPOSING THE SALARY CAP AS A
THREAT TACTIC, AND THEY HAD TO
BACK AWAY FROM IT BECAUSE IT
WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN LEGAL UNDER
LABOUR LAW IN MOST CANADIAN
JURISDICTIONS, INCLUDING
ONTARIO AND QUEBEC.

Patrick Gossage says I THINK
WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT IT IS
THE... I MEAN, THERE WAS A GREAT
LITTLE PIECE OF ENTERTAINMENT
THAT WE JUST SAW, BUT I
MEAN ALL THESE POLITICIANS
SEARCHING FOR SOME WAY TO MAKE
THE LEGISLATURE RELEVANT,
YOU KNOW?
[laughter]
YOU KNOW, FOR 20 MINUTES
TODAY, THEY ACTUALLY TALKED
ABOUT SOMETHING
PEOPLE CARED ABOUT.
IN THEIR 20 SHORT
DAYS OF SITTING.

Hugh Mackenzie says HAVING BEEN THERE, THE
NIRVANA FOR A POLITICAL
HACK AT QUEEN'S PARK
IS TO FIND A WAY
OF GETTING THE BOSS
ONTO THE SPORTS PAGES
AND INTO THE SPORTS SEGMENT
OF THE TELEVISION NEWS.
AND IT WORKED.

Steve says THERE ARE
SPORTSCASTERS ALL OVER THE
PROVINCE WHO ARE TALKING
ABOUT QUEEN'S PARK TODAY.

Hugh Mackenzie says WELL, I SAW
IT TONIGHT.
IT WAS ON THE
SPORTS NEWS.
SO OBVIOUSLY IT WORKED.

Jane Pepino says YEAH, BUT THE WORST
THING IS, IT MAKES THE
TORONTO BLUE JAYS, OUT OF
ALL OF THOSE OTHER TEAMS
THE ONE THAT WILL EFFECTIVELY
KEEP BASEBALL FROM EVERYONE.

Steve says DOES THAT MAKE US
LOOK LIKE A LAUGHING STOCK,
IN YOUR OPINION?

Jane Pepino says YEAH, IT DOES.

Steve says YOU
REALLY THINK SO?

Jane Pepino says IT'S BUSH LEAGUE.
THAT'S A VERY
GOOD COMEBACK.

Patrick Gossage says THANK YOU,
THANK YOU.
NICELY DONE.

Hugh Mackenzie says I THINK
YOU GUYS ARE JUST OVER
THE TOP ON THIS.

Steve says IT MAKES TORONTO LOOK
BUSH LEAGUE BECAUSE WE
CAN'T USE REPLACEMENT
PLAYERS AND, THEREFORE,
PRESENT AN INFERIOR PRODUCT
TO THE PAYING PUBLIC.

Hugh Mackenzie says EXACTLY.

Jane Pepino says OH
NO, BUT HANG ON.
IS IT INFERIOR?
THE WAY THEY WERE PLAYING
BEFORE THE STRIKE,
WAS IT INFERIOR?

Steve says WELL, THESE ARE
THE TWO-TIME DEFENDING
CHAMPIONS AFTER ALL.

Patrick Gossage says FOREGO THEIR
EARLY CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS TO
SPEND THE NEXT WEEK DEBATING
THIS AND, YOU KNOW...

Steve says THEY SHOULD, EH?

Patrick Gossage says MAYBE LYN CAN GET UP AND
MIGHT SCORE SOME POINTS
AND BE ON THE
SPORTSCAST, TOO.
WELL WHO KNOWS?

Hugh Mackenzie says MAYBE THERE'LL
BE A FILIBUSTER.

Steve says HOW MANY VOTES
HERE ON THE TORIES
ARE BEING MISCHIEVOUS?
LET'S SEE THEIR
HANDS ON THIS ONE.

Patrick Gossage says THE TORIES ARE BEING
MISCHIEVOUS BY RAISING
THIS AS A REAL...

Jane Pepino says OH, I THINK THE TORIES
HAVE BEEN TO TOO MANY
FRAT PARTIES LATELY.
[all talking at once]
BUT ALSO, THEY'RE HAVING FUN
WITH A REAL NUGGET OF...
A REAL KERNEL OF TRUTH
TO IT, THAT'S THE KEY.

Patrick Gossage says
IT WON'T HAPPEN.

Hugh Mackenzie says
OBVIOUSLY.

Steve says WE'RE
MARKING YOUR WORDS.
WHAT WON'T HAPPEN?
STICK AROUND.
WE GOT MORE
FUN AND GAMES.
THERE'S A NEW MOVIE
OUT, AS YOU ALL KNOW,
JUST OUT, INSPIRED...
HAS INSPIRED, RATHER, OUR OWN
RICK GREEN TO TAKE A LOOK AT
GOVERNMENT AT QUEEN'S
PARK THROUGH NEW EYES.
HERE'S
OUT OF ORDER.

(music plays)

An animation sequence appears on screen with a wooden stage and a statue moving onto stage before the show starts and a caption reads "Out of Order."

A man in his fifties appears on screen with feathery light gray hair, large glasses, is clean-shaven, and wears black pants.

The man with gray hair says WITH THE RISE OF MULTI-NATIONAL
CORPORATIONS AND THE GLOBAL
ECONOMY, GOVERNMENTS EVERYWHERE
ARE BECOMING LESS RELEVANT.
DOES GOVERNMENT
HAVE A FUTURE?
WHAT WOULD POLITICS BE LIKE
IN, SAY, THE 23rd CENTURY,
YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY FINALLY PAY
OFF THE DEFICIT WE'VE RUN UP
IN THE 20th CENTURY?
TO FIND OUT,
I'VE COME HERE.

The man turns to a ticket box and buys a popcorn and soda.

The man continues HERE IS AN ADMINISTRATION THAT
OFFERS UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE,
DAYCARE, EDUCATION AND
EMPLOYMENT FOR THE ENTIRE
UNIVERSE...
STAR TREK'S
FUTURE FEDERATION.
[explosion]

The man walks into a theatre and sits in front of the big screen.

The man says AN ENTIRE BUREAUCRACY
WITH NO PAPERWORK
AND
NO LANGUAGE DEBATE.
I MEAN, EVERY LIFE
FORM SPEAKS ENGLISH.
THINK OF THE STARSHIP
ENTERPRISE AS QUEEN'S PARK
WITH A WARP DRIVE, AND CAPTAIN
KIRK IS LIKE BOB RAE.
CAPTAIN KIRK IS A MAN OF
ACTION, POWER AND PERSONAL
MAGNETISM AND OUR PREMIER
IS A GUY WHO SORT OF, UM...
I KNOW!
THEY'RE BOTH
PLAYED BY CANADIANS.

A patron says SHH!

The man whispers and continues OKAY, MAYBE BOB RAE IS MORE
LIKE CAPTAIN PICARD, THE
THOUGHTFUL, SKILLED NEGOTIATOR
WHO HAS VERY SHORT HAIR.
IN THE MOVIE, PEOPLE SUDDENLY
DISAPPEAR BY BEAMING UP.
AT QUEEN'S PARK, IT'S
CALLED A CABINET SHUFFLE.
IN THE MOVIE, PEOPLE HAVE
THEIR PHASORS ON STUN.
AT QUEEN'S PARK,
IT'S THEIR BRAINS.
AND WHEN Mr. DATA DISCOVERS
EMOTIONS AND FEELINGS,
IT REMINDED ME OF MIKE HARRIS'
NEW IMAGE MAKEOVER.

Mike Harris appears on screen with his political ad. Mike Harris goes fishing with his little son and then speaks in an interview with a soft blue background wearing a blue sweater.

The man continues I THINK ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITIES
THAT I HAD GROWING UP,
THE SENSE OF SECURITY.
AND, FINALLY, THE FAN
REACTION TO THE FILM HAS BEEN...
WELL, IT DIDN'T SUCK.
OKAY, THE REACTION TO QUEEN'S
PARK HASN'T BEEN QUITE
AS POSITIVE, BUT STILL...
NOW, SOME SAY
STAR TREK'S
FUTURE FEDERATION
IS FASCIST.
I MEAN, THERE'S NO ELECTIONS,
THERE'S NO DISSENT, THE
BUREAUCRATS WEAR MILITARY
UNIFORMS
AND
CARRY GUNS,
BUT ON THE GOOD SIDE,
THERE'S NO PHOTO RADAR.
YOU CAN GO,
LIKE, WARP NINE.
SO ALL THOSE IN FAVOUR
OF STAR TREK GOVERNMENT,
RAISE YOUR HANDS.
Mr. PREMIER, MAKE IT SO.
[zapping]
The man vanishes into thin air.

[laughter]

Back in the studio, Steve says YOU SHOULD ALL LIVE
LONG AND PROSPER.
THAT'S MY OPINION.
THAT'S OUR LOOK AT ONTARIO
POLITICS FOR THIS WEEK.
MANY THANKS.
WE'LL DO IT ALL
AGAIN NEXT TIME.
AND WE WOULD LIKE YOUR
COMMENTS ON THIS PROGRAM.
WRITE TO US, IF YOU WOULD, AT
FOURTH READING,
THAT'S AT:
BOX 200, STATION Q,
TORONTO, ONTARIO,
M4T2T1.
OR FOR YOU INTERNET USERS,
YOU CAN REACH US THROUGH
CYBER SPACE AT:
FOURTH UNDERSCORE READING AT TVO.ORG.
THAT'S IT FOR
US THIS WEEK.
I'M STEVE PAIKIN.
SEE YOU NEXT TIME.

(music plays)

The credits roll and shots from a swamp area appear on screen.

Host, Steve Paikin.
Show Producer, Susanna Kelley.
Story Editor, Richard Martyn.
Production Manager, Wally Teska.
Director, Allan Myers.

A production of TVOntaro, copyright The Ontario Educational Communications Authority 1994.

Watch: Fourth Reading V - The Planning Act