Transcript: Fair Tax Commission | Dec 16, 1993

The opening sequence rolls.
Music plays as clips of politicians and demonstrations appear on an animated number 4.

Steve says TONIGHT, MONEY MIX,
A NEW WAY TO SLICE UP
ONTARIO'S TAX PIE.

A split screen shows a conference in session with a caption that reads "Money Mix."

Steve continues AND CHRISTMAS WRAP, MP'S HEAD
ME FOR THE HOLIDAYS AFTER
THE ROUGHEST SESSION YET.

A clip shows several male MPPs in suits engaged in a furious debate with a caption that reads "Christmas Wrap."

Steve continues THIS IS FOURTH READING.

The opening slate appears on screen with a title that reads "4th Reading."

In the studio, Steve appears on screen. He is in his thirties, has short, dark, curly brown hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a brown blazer over a black polo.

Steve says FAIR TAXES, THE VERY
IDEA THAT TAXES COULD EVER BE
FAIR JUST SEEMS TO BE UTOPIA
TO MANY.
GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY, I'M
STEVE PAIKIN.
ONTARIO GOVERNMENT'S FAIR TAX
COMMISSION SAYS IT HAS FOUND A
WAY TO MAKE PAYING TAXES MORE
EQUITABLE.
IT HAS RELEASED ITS FINAL
REPORT AND WE'RE GOING TO PUT
THAT REPORT UNDER THE
MICROSCOPE ON TONIGHT'S
PROGRAM.
DO THE COMMISSION'S 135
RECOMMENDATIONS REALLY ADD UP
TO A TAX SYSTEM THAT IS
FAIRER?
TONIGHT WE'LL TALK WITH THE
COMMISSION CHAIR.
BUT FIRST, SOME BACKGROUND
INTO JUST WHAT THIS 8 POINT 6
MILLION DOLLAR COMMISSION HAS
COME UP WITH AFTER THREE YEARS
OF STUDY.

A clip of commission meeting appears on screen.

Steve says AFTER THREE MONTHS OF HEARINGS
AND 17 DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES,
A SPECIAL COMMISSION THINKS
IT'S FOUND THE RIGHT BALANCE
FOR MAKING ONTARIO'S TAX
SYSTEM FAIRER.

A woman in her fifties with shoulder-length, side-parted blond hair wearing a red blazer and black shirt appears on screen speaking at the commission with a caption that reads "Monica Townson, Fair Tax Commission."

Monica Townson says WE'VE BEEN DESCRIBING OUR
PROCESS AS A SEARCH FOR
FAIRNESS.
BUT OBVIOUSLY DEFINING
FAIRNESS AND TAXATION IS NOT
AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS.
FOR SOME PEOPLE, THERE'S NO
SUCH THING AS A FAIR TAX.
AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY
TIMES WE HEARD THAT SAME
PHRASE OVER THIS TAX
COMMISSION.

Steve says THE FAIR TAX COMMISSION
PROMISES ITS PROPOSALS ARE NOT
A TAX GRAB IN DISGUISE.
THE MEMBERS INSIST THE
PROPOSALS ARE REVENUE NEUTRAL,
THAT THEY DON'T RAZOR LOWER
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE
GOVERNMENT COLLECTS.
IT WILL JUST BE COLLECTED IN A
MORE EQUITABLE WAY.

Now, clips of children playing at school appear on screen mix with shots of neighbourhood housing.

Steve says THE MOST SIGNIFICANT
RECOMMENDATION FOCUSES ON HOW
YOU RAISE MONEY TO PAY FOR
EDUCATION.
CURRENTLY, CITIES AND TOWNS
ALL OVER ONTARIO RAISE 3.5
BILLION DOLLARS FOR EDUCATION
FROM PROPERTY TAXES.
THE COMMISSION THINKS THAT'S
INEFFICIENT AND UNFAIR.
IT WANTS TO CUT PROPERTY TAXES
BY THAT 3.5 BILLION DOLLARS,
AND INSTEAD, RAISE THAT MONEY
THROUGH HIGHER INCOME TAXES
FOR MOST PEOPLE.
PERHAPS THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL
RECOMMENDATION WAS THE
ONTARIO'S RETAIL SALES AXE,
BROADENED TO COVER MORE GOODS,
PLUS SERVICES.
THAT TAX WOULD BE HARMONIZE WE
HAD THE FEDERAL GST TO CUT
DOWN ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.
WHILE THAT WOULD MAKE THE TAX
SYSTEM SIMPLER, THE NDP
GOVERNMENT HAS ALWAYS OPPOSED
IT.
THE COMMISSION IS ALSO HOPING
TO GAIN PUBLIC SUPPORT BY
GOING GREEN.
IT WANTS TO EXTEND THE
SO-CALLED GAS-GUZZLER TAX ON
BIGGER VEHICLES.

Now people pumping gas appears on screen and Steve says IT'S SUGGESTING A TAX ON ALL
FORCE HE WILL FUELS BASED ON
HOW MUCH CARBON DIOXIDE THEY
SPEW INTO THE AIR, AND IT'S
RECOMMENDING USER FEES FOR
WATER AND SEWER USE TO
ENCOURAGE CONSERVATION.
RICHER PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY
LIKE THESE CHANGES THE LEAST.
IF THE GOVERNMENT PUSHES THE
RECOMMENDATIONS THROUGH, THE
TOP PERSONAL INCOME TAX RATE
WILL BE INCREASED TO 60 percent.
IT'S NOW ABOUT 52 percent.
KEEP IN MIND, THOUGH, PROPERTY
TAXES WOULD BE CUT IN HALF.
BUT THE COMMISSION IS ALSO
RECOMMENDING A NEW INHERITANCE
TAX ON THE WEALTHY, AS LONG AS
EVERY OTHER PROVINCIAL ADOPTS
THE PROPOSAL.

At the commission, a man in his fifties with short, side-parted, light gray hair, clean-shaven, and wearing a black suit, white shirt and dark tie appears on screen with a caption that reads "Floyd Laughren, Minister of Finance."

Floyd says I DON'T FEEL CONSTRAINED BY
TIME IN TERMS OF INITIATING
REFORMS.
I'M ENOUGH OF A REALIST TO
KNOW THAT SOME OF THESE
RECOMMENDATIONS ARE INCREDIBLY
COMPLEX IN TERMS OF PROPERTY
TAX, AND THAT WE'D HAVE TO
MOVE, BECAUSE IT'S SO
SWEEPING, WE'D HAVE TO MOVE
CAREFULLY AND MAKE SURE WE DID
IT RIGHT.

Back in the studio, Steve says OKAY, WHERE DOES THAT
OVERALL MIX OF TAX
RECOMMENDATIONS TAKE US.
WHO WILL LOSE, WHO WILL WIN.
LET US LOOK AT OUR FACT FILE
AND FIND OUT.

A blue screen appears on screen with a caption that reads "Fact File."

Steve says ACCORDING TO THE COMMISSION,
THIS IS THE ESTIMATED IMPACT
OF ITS PROPOSED CHANGES TO
INCOME, PROPERTY AND SALES
TAXES.
THE FAMILIES WITH INCOMES OF
MORE THAN 50,000 DOLLARS WILL PAY
MORE IN TAXES THAN THEY DO
NOW.
THOSE MAKING 40,000 DOLLARS OR LESS
WILL PAY LESS.
AND HERE TO TALK TO US WITH
THIS NEW TAX MIX IS THE
COMMISSION CHAIR, MONICA TOWNS
END.

Monica Townson appears on screen in the studio.

Steve continues WELCOME.
AND JOINING US AS USUAL OUR
PANEL, SALLY BARNS, CONSULTANT
AND COLUMNIST.
A FORMER ADVISE OR TO
CONSERVATIVE PREMIERS BILL
DAVE AND I SAY FRANK MILLER.

A photo of a woman in her fifties with short, gray curly hair wearing a green blazer appears on screen with a caption that read "Sally Barnes, Communications Consultant, Columnist, Former Adviser to Conservative Premiers."

Steve continues AND IAN SCOTT, LAWYER AND
FORMER ATTORNEY YEN.

A photo of a man in his fifties with thin, short, side-parted white hair, clean-shaven, and wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and dark tie appears on screen with a caption that reads "Ian Scott, Lawyer, Former Liberal Attorney General."

Steve continues AND JANET SOLBERG, CONSULTANT,
RESEARCHER, FORM PRESIDENT OF
THE ONTARIOED IN.

A photo of a woman in her forties with short, straight, side-parted brown hair cut in the shape of a bob wearing a blue sweater over a white collared shirt appears on screen with a caption that reads "Janet Solberg, Consultant and Researcher, Former President Ontario NDP."

Steve continues OKAY, LET'S GET INTO IT,
BEFORE I ASK MY FIRST
QUESTION, I WANT TO PLAY A
PIECE OF TAPE HERE, WHICH IS
YOU BACK IN THE SPRING, THE
DISCUSSION PAPER HAD JUST BEEN
RELEASED, YOU WERE SPEAKING
PUBLICLY ABOUT WHAT YOU FOUND
SO FAR, AND LET'S ROLL WHAT
MONICA TOWNSEND'S COMMENTS
WERE THEN.

The clip rolls and Monica appears on screen with shorter hair and wearing a red blazer. A caption reads "Fair mix?"

Monica Townson says WHAT WE'RE DOING AT THE
FAIR TAX COMMISSION REALLY IS
LOOKING AT THE WAY THE COSTS
OF OUR SOCIETY ARE SHARED
AMONG THE PEOPLE IN ONTARIO.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE LOOKING
AT THE FAIRNESS OF THE SYSTEM
THAT IF YOU WANTED THE SERVICE
THAT IS THE GOVERNMENT
PROVIDES FOR THE PEOPLE OF
ONTARIO.

Back in the studio, Steve says OKAY, CONVINCE US
TONIGHT THAT YOU FOUND THE
RIGHT MIX.

Monica Townson says I THINK WE HAVE.
WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO, AS I
WAS EXPLAINING WHEN I WAS HERE
BEFORE, IS TO CHANGE THE MIX
OF TAXES TO MAKE THE OVERALL
SYSTEM MORE PROGRESSIVE, THAT
IS REDUCE THE RELINES ON
REGRESS SIEVE TAXES.
THE BIGGEST CHANGE WE'RE
RECOMMENDING IS TO REDUCE THE
PROPERTY TAX BY TAKING
EDUCATION FUNDING OFF THE
PROPERTY TAX.
PROPERTY TAX IS THEY MOST
REGRESS SIEVE TAX IN THE
SYSTEM.
WHEN I SAY REGRESSIVE, THE
LOWER YOUR INCOME, THE HIGHER
PERCENTAGE YOU PAY.
WE RECOMMEND THAT BE REDUCED,
AND THAT THAT FUNDING BE
SHIFTED MAINLY TO INCOME TAXES
WHICH IS A MORE PRO AGGRESSIVE
TAX.
THAT MEANS THE HIGHER YOUR
INCOME, THE HIGHER PERCENTAGE
YOU PAY IN TAX.

Steve says THE ONE YOU THINK AS
THE LEAST PROGRESSIVE IS THE
SALES TAX, RIGHT, THE
PROVINCIAL SALES TAX.
AND YOU WERE RECOMMENDING WE
SOMEHOW HARMONIZE ONTARIO'S
SALES TAX SYSTEM WITH A
NATIONAL SCHEME.

Monica Townson says WELL, TWO THINGS ABOUT
THAT.
FIRST OF ALL, I THINK PROPERTY
TAXES TURNS OUT TO BE EVEN
MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN SALES
TAXES MT SALES TAX AS ARE
AGGRESSIVE.
BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT IT, WE
REALIZE THAT THERE'S NO WAY
WE'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE THE
SALES TAX AT THE PROVINCIAL
LEVEL.
THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD DO
THAT.
WHAT WE ALSO FIND IS IF YOU
BROADEN THE BUSINESS OF IT,
STRANGE AS THAT MAY SEEM, IT
MAKES IT MORE PRO AGGRESSIVE,
RNS OUT TH
BECAUSE IT
PEOPLE WHO LOSE SERVICES WHICH
ARE NOT TAXED AT THE MOMENT,
THE HIGHER INCOME, THE MORE
YOU USE IN SERVICES.
LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE THE
DIFFERENCE YOU MAKE IF YOU
HAVE AN EXEMPTION.
LET'S SAY YOU'RE GOING TO WASH
YOUR SHIRT FOR SOMETHING, YOU
GO OUT AND YOU BUY SOAP TO
WASH, YOU PAY TAX ON.
THAT YOU TAKE THEM TO THE
LAUNDRY, YOU DON'T PAY ANY
TAX.
SO HAVING SOME THINGS EXEMPT
FROM THE TAX CREATES
INEQUITIES BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO
CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE THEIR
CLOTHES TO THE CLEANERS.
A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE WASH THEM
AT HOME.
SO IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW IT
MIGHT IMPACT TAX FAIRLY.

Steve says LET ME TALK TO SALLY WHO
REPRESENTS THE TAX FIGHTSER IN
THIS PROVINCE, MIKE HARRIS.
YOU'VE BEEN KNOWN TO FREQUENT
THE SAME SOCIAL CIRCLES.

Sally Barnes says YOU’RE WRITING.

A caption reads "Sally Barnes, Former PC Adviser."

Sally Barnes continues I WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN EGO, I
GUESS, I MEAN, ARE YOU GOING
TO BE SHATTERED WHEN YOU
REALIZE THAT NOTHING'S GOING
TO HAPPEN ON THIS PROBABLY FOR
A LONG, LONG TIME.

Steve says WHY DO YOU ASSUME
THAT?

Sally Barnes says BECAUSE THIS GOVERNMENT HAS
18 MONTHS LEFT IN ITS MANDATE
AND IT WOULD BE A MIRACLE TO
BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING SO
QUICKLY BEING EVEN IF IT WERE
TO DO IT.
DO YOU HAVE AN EXPECTATION
THAT YOU WERE GOING TO SEE
SOME ACTION ON THIS?

Monica Townson says LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU THAT
THIS IS NOT A PARTISAN
POLITICAL EXERCISE.
MUCH AS YOU MIGHT LIKE TO
CATEGORIZE IT THAT WAY.
THIS IS A PUBLIC PROCESS WITH
HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE, THOUSANDS,
IN FACT, ACROSS THE PROVINCE
WERE INVOLVED IN.
THE TEN COMMISSIONERS CAME
FROM ALL DIFFERENT WALKS OF
LIFE, FROM DIFFERENT POLITICAL
PERSPECTIVES, AND WHAT WE WERE
TRYING TO DO HERE IS RECOMMEND
FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES TO THE TAX
SYSTEM IN ONTARIO.
YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT THE
GOVERNMENT TO IMPLEMENT ALL OF
THESE IN THE NEXT BUDGET.
SOME OF THEM, THERE'S NO WAY
THAT COULD BE DONE.
FOR EXAMPLE, A BIG CHUNK OUR
RECOMMENDATION INVOLVES
NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IT SEEMS TO ME
THOSE ARE VERY TIMELY, AND THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ITSELF, THE
PREVIOUS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
SUGGESTED THIS, IN A PAPER
THEY RELEASED LAST YEAR, THAT
PROVINCES MIGHT WANT TO SIT
DOWN RENEGOTIATE THE TAX
COLLECTION AGREEMENT SO THEY
COULD HAVE MORE CONTROL OVER
THEIR OWN INCOME TAX.
THAT'S ONE OF THE AREAS THAT
WE'RE DEALING WITH IN THIS
REPORT.
THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF
THINGS LIKE THAT WHICH IT
SEEMS TO ME ARE LONG-TERM,
FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES, WHICH
COULD BE IMPLEMENTED OVER A
PERIOD OF TIME.

Sally Barnes says SURELY YOU PUT SO MUCH
PERSONAL EFFORT INTO IT, SUCH
A HUNK YOUR OWN CAREER, AND A
MILLION DOLLARS OF THE
TAXPAYERS...

Steve says WHICH WE SHOULD SAY,
I'M PROBABLY STEALING YOUR
THUNDER HERE, ON BUDGET, ON
TIME.

Monica Townson says UNDER BUDGET.

Sally Barnes says A WHOLE SNOOT FULL OF
MONEY.

Steve says LET'S SAY, WHAT IS
IT, 1400 PAGES?

Monica Townson says 1200.

Steve holds up a book with a title that reads "Fair Taxation in a Changing World."

Sally Barnes says BUT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO
RECOMMEND THIS KIND OF THING.

Monica Townson says WELL, LET ME JUST EXPLAIN
TO YOU, THERE HAS NOT BEEN
SUCH AN EXTENSIVE EXAMINATION
OF THE TAX SYSTEM IN ONTARIO
FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS.
IT WAS 25 YEARS SINCE THIS WAS
DONE THE LAST TIME.
AND EVEN THEN, THE COMMITTEE
WHICH REPORTED 25 YEARS AGO
DID NOT HAVE AS COMPREHENSIVE
REVIEW AS THIS.
WE INTO NOT ONLY PROPERTY
TAXES AND EDUCATION THAT I'VE
BEEN SPEAKING ABOUT, BUT THE
WHOLE AREA OF INCOME TAXES,
WHICH IS A FEDERAL -- MANY OF
WHICH REQUIRE
FEDERAL OR PROVINCIAL
NEGOTIATIONS.
TAXES OF THE POOR, CORPORATE
TAXES, WHAT CAN BE DONE ON THE
INTERNATIONAL LEVEL OF
CORPORATE TAXES, SO THERE'S A
LOT OF THE STUFF IN HERE
THAT'S RELEVANT NOT JUST FOR
THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO, BUT
FOR OTHER PROVINCES.

Ian Scott says I AGREE WITH SALLY.
I THINK THERE ARE PARTS OF
THIS THAT ARE GOING TO BE
APPLIED.

A caption reads "Ian Scott, Former Liberal Attorney General."

Ian Scott continues I AGREE IT'S NON-PARTISAN, I
AGREE IT'S TAX NEUTRAL, IF
APPLIED PROPERLY, AND I AGREE
IT'S A GOOD PIECE OF WORK, BUT
THERE'S ONE PERSON WHO IS
READING THIS RIGHT NOW, AND
THAT'S THE TREASURER OF
ONTARIO, AND HE'S LOOKING FOR
THINGS THAT HE CAN PUT IN HIS
BUDGET NEXT YEAR WHICH WILL
SOLVE PART OF HIS PROBLEM BY
INCREASING REVENUES.
AND MY PREDICTION IS THE FIRST
PART OF THIS TO BE IMPLEMENTED
WILL BE THE SALES TAX ON SOME
SERVICES.
AND SEE THAT IN NEXT BUDGET.

Steve says YOU THINK AN NDP GOVERNMENT
IS GOING TO BRING IN WHAT
WE'VE ALREADY HEARD TODAY IS
ONE OF THE MOST REGRESS SIEVE
TAXES AND MAKE IT WORSE?

Ian Scott says THEY'RE GOING TO BRING IT
ONTARIO ACCOUNTING SERVICES,
LAWYER SERVICES...

Steve says AND OF COURSE LOWER
THE RATE.

Ian Scott says AND ALL I'M SAYING IS WHAT
HAPPENS TO AN EXCELLENT
DOCUMENT LIKE THIS IS THE
TREASURER OF ONTARIO GETS IT
AND HE SAYS IT'S ALL GOOD
STUFF, WE HAVE TO DO IT,
THERE'S NO CONSTRAINTS TO
TIME, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING IN
IT I CAN DO JUST THIS NEXT
YEAR WHICH WILL SOLVE SOME OF
MY PROBLEMS.
AND OF COURSE THERE ARE SUCH
ITEMS.
AND THOSE ARE PARTS THAT ARE
GOING TO BE IMPLEMENTED VERY
QUICKLY.

Steve says HOW DO YOU LIKE
THIS, IT THE MIX?

Janet Solberg says OH, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO
DIGEST, STEVE IN AN AFTERNOON

Steve says SOME OF THE
CRITICISM WE'VE HEARD SO FAR,
BUT ARE I ASK YOU, LET'S HERE
SOME OF THE INDIVIDUALS WOULD
RESPOND TODAY THIS.
WE TOOK OUR CAMERAS INTO THE
HALLWAYS AND TALKED TO SOME OF
YOUR BIGGEST FRIENDS AND.
YOUR HARSHEST CREDIT SKPIKS
LET'S HEAR WHAT THEY HAD TO
SAY.

The clip rolls with a caption that reads "Reaction."

A man in his fifties with short, dark, side-parted gray hair and clean-shaven with a caption that reads "John Bulloch, Cdn Fed of Independent Business" appears on screen.

John Bulloch says THE TAX WILL REFORM, TAX
INCREASES AND WE ARE BEING SET
UP FOR A MASSIVE TAX GRAB.

A man in his sixties with short, white, balding hair, big glasses, and clean-shaven with a caption that reads "Don Cousens, PC Finance Critic" appears on screen.

Don Cousens says THERE ARE NO LOSERS AND
WINNERS THIS PROJECT.
WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET
THE MONEY, FROM THE MIDDLE
CLASS, UPPER CLASS, THERE'S NO
GUARANTEES THERE'S GOING TO BE
ANY MONEY SAVED TO ANYBODY.
THIS IS A PROJECT THAT'S BEEN
A WASTE OF TIME AND A WASTE OF
MONEY, HAS ABOUT AS MUCH
CHANCE OF BEING IMPLEMENTED AS
A SKI HILL BEING BUILT ON
QUEENS PARK.

A man in his fifties with short, gray brown side-parted hair, and clean-shaven with a caption that read "Gerry Phillips, Liberal Finance Critic" appears on screen."

Gerry Phillips says THE PROBLEM IS GOING TO BE
NOT IN THE POLICY.
THE PROBLEM IS GOING TO BE IN
THE ACTUAL FINDING THE MONEY
TO REPLACE THAT.
AND ALL THE EVIDENCE RIGHT NOW
SUGGESTS IT'S NOT -- RIGHT NOW
IT'S NOT THERE.

A man in his fifties with short, gray, side-parted hair, clean-shaven appears on screen with a caption that reads "Claire Ross, Catholic Teachers of Ontario."

Claire Ross says I'M VERY PLEASED WE HAD SOME
OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
WE BELIEVE THAT FOR THE FIRST
TIME, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO
REALIZE WITHIN THIS PROVINCE
THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION FOR
ALL OF OUR STUDENTS, WHETHER
THEY BE IN THE CATHOLIC SYSTEM
OR THE PUBLIC SYSTEM.

A man in his forties with short, wavy, dark brown hair and a thick, dark moustache, appears on screen with a caption that reads "John Clark, Ontario Coalition Against Poverty."

John Clark says THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT
THE ISSUE AT FIRST GLANCE,
THIS IS REALLY A FIRST GLANCE,
THE ISSUES IN THERE THAT COULD
PROVIDE SOME HELP TO PEOPLE IN
TERMS OF TAX RELIEF.
BUT I THINK AT THE SAME TIME,
THE POINT NEEDS TO BE MADE
THAT IN TERMS OF THIS
GOVERNMENT REALLY IS TOO
LITTLE, TOO LATE.
WE'RE DEALING WITH A
GOVERNMENT THAT PROMISED TO
BRING IN NO NEW TAXES, A
PLEASURE WE'RE NOT SEEING ANY
FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT IN THE
BALANCE OF TAXATION.

Back in the studio, Steve says ONE OF THE THINGS
JOHN CLARKE WENT ON TO SAY,
AND MAYBE I CAN ASK YOU, THE
AGENDA FOR PEOPLE IN THE 1990
ELECTION HAD TAX REFORM RIGHT
UP AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.
AND HIS POINT, HE WENT ON TO
SAY, WAS HERE WE ARE THREE
YEARS LATER, WE'RE NOW
STARTING TO SEE A PLAN, IT
WILL STILL BE ANOTHER YEAR OR
MORE BEFORE ANYTHING GETS
DONE.
DO YOU AS A NEW DEMOCRAT HAVE
SOME SYMPATHY WITH THAT PAIN
OF HIS?

Janet Solberg says NOT A LOT.
I THINK THE TAX SYSTEM IS SO
COMPLICATED AND THE TAX
REFORMS THAT HAVE BEEN
RECOMMENDED HERE NEED A LOT OF
CAREFUL STUDY.
I'M JUST GRATEFUL THAT IT'S
BEEN DONE.
IT'S NOT A BENCHMARK, NOT ONLY
FOR THIS PROVINCE BE BUT FOR
ACROSS CANADA.
AND MANY OF THE WAYS THAT HE
ALREADY INDICATED TO US.
AND CONTRARY TO IAN, I THINK
THIS COULD BE A VERY POSITIVE
THING FOR THE GOVERNMENT.
I THINK THEY COULD TAKE SOME
OF THESE PRO DEGREESIVE
MEASURES AND IMPLEMENT THEM
OVER THE NEXT 18 MONTHS AND
USE THEM AS PART OF THEIR
CAMPAIGN.

Steve says HOW DO YOU PROMISE
PEOPLE, AND MAYBE YOU CAN'T,
THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE WHAT
JOHN BULLOCK SAID IT WAS GOING
TO BE, WHICH IS JUST A TAX
GRAB IN DISGUISE.

Monica Townson says MR. BULLOCK DOESN'T
UNDERSTAND THE PROVISION.
THIS IS NOT AN NDP GOVERNMENT,
THIS IS AN INDEPENDENT
ADMISSION.
AS I SAID EARLIER, THERE WERE
PEOPLE ON THIS COMMISSION FROM
ALL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES,
POLITICAL AND PROFESSIONAL AND
WHATEVER.
WHAT WE'VE DONE IS PRESENT A
BLUEPRINT FOR TAX REFORM IN
THIS PROVINCE.
WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER HOW
THE GOVERNMENT USES IT
CLEARLY, BUT WE HOPE THEY WILL
CONSIDER IT CAREFULLY AND THEY
WILL IMPLEMENT THE
RECOMMENDATIONS AS A PACKAGE.
BECAUSE IT'S DESIGNED TO MAKE
THE TAX SYSTEM FAIRER.

Sally Barnes says THAT'S THE KEY WORD IS THE
PACKAGE.
AND I THINK THE POINT ALL OF
US ARE MAKING NO GOVERNMENT IS
GOING TO DO IT AS A PACKAGE,
SO IS IT NOT DANGEROUS AND
INEFFECTIVE TO DO IT
PIECEMEAL.

Monica Townson says I'M NOT SURE THEY'RE GOING
TO DO IT PIECEMEAL, AND I
THINK THAT THERE ARE CHUNKS OF
THIS THAT COULD BE IMPLEMENTED
AS SORT OF INDIVIDUAL
PACKAGES, YOU WANT TO PUT IT
LIKE THAT.
ONE AREA OBVIOUSLY IS THE
WHOLE AREA OF REFORM OF LOCAL
GOVERNMENT FINANCE.
WE HAVE RECOMMENDED, FOR
EXAMPLE, A CHANGE OF THE
SYSTEM, AND WE HAVE SAID THAT
SHOULD BE PHASED-IN OVER A
FIVE-YEAR PERIOD.
WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT EDUCATION
FINANCE AND A DIFFERENT
ALLOCATION SYSTEM, ALLOCATION
FUNDING TO EDUCATION.
WHICH WILL BE DONE AT THE
PROVINCIAL LEVEL.
THAT'S ONE LITTLE PACKAGE THAT
COULD BE IMPLEMENTED.
ANOTHER AREA THAT COULD BE
DONE IS THE WHOLE AREA OF
FEDERAL/PROVINCIAL STUFF WHICH
I TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, AND
WHICH THE PROVINCIAL FINANCE
MINISTERS ARE ALREADY MEETING
WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO
TALK ABOUT CHANGES IN THE
FEDERAL SLASH PROVINCIAL FISCAL
ARRANGEMENT.
HERE'S THE BLUEPRINT THAT
WE'RE SUGGEST.
ONTARIO COULD TAKE TO THOSE
MEETINGS.
THAT'S ANOTHER CHUNK THAT
COULD BE WORKED ON.
THERE'S A WHOLE SYSTEM OF...

Steve says THE MINISTER OF
FINANCE WAS MISS CHEF OUTSIDE
TO RELEASE HIS MINIMUM
CORPORATE TAX BEFORE THIS
THING CAME OUT.

Ian Scott says THEY DON'T RECOMMEND, IN
FACT THEY SAY IT'S A BAD IDEA.
THAT'S PROBABLY WHY HE
WANTED TO DO IT FIRST.
BUT I'D LIKE TO ASK THIS
QUESTION, YOU'VE SAID THAT THE
PROPERTY TAX IS THE MOST
REGRESSIVE TAX AND I THINK
THAT'S UNDOUBTEDLY THE CASE
AND INCOME TAX IS BY AND LARGE
THE MOST PRO AGGRESSIVE TAX,
WHY HAVE YOU NOT MOVED
FURTHER, AWE LOST YOUR
COURAGE, WHY POLICING AND
SEWERS AND A WHOLE HOST OF
OTHER THINGS ARE CONTINUED TO
BE PAID FOR BY THE PROPERTY
TAX AND ONLY THE SCHOOL
COMPONENT HAS BEEN REMOVED
FROM THE PROPERTY TAX?

Monica Townson says WE DON'T SAY THAT.
WE HAVE ACTUALLY RECOMMENDED...
LET ME FINISH WHAT I WAS GOING
TO SAY.
WE HAVE SUGGESTED A LOT OF
MUNICIPAL SERVICES COULD BE
PAID FOR BY USER FEES.
IN FACT, THAT'S QUITE AN
INNOVATIVE AREA WHERE WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT FINANCING
MUNICIPAL SERVICES LIKE
SEWERS, WATER, GARBAGE AND SO
ON, BY AN OFFSET FOR LOW
INCOME FAMILIES SO PEOPLE WHO
NEED THOSE SERVICES...

Ian Scott says WHY DON'T YOU MOVE RIGHT
OFF THE PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM?

Monica Townson says BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE
SOME AREAS WHERE YOU CAN'T
HAVE DIRECT USER FEES FOR
LOCAL SERVICES, BECAUSE IT
WOULDN'T BE FAIR TO PEOPLE.
WHEREAS CLEARLY THINGS LIKE
SEWERS AND WATER VARY
ACCORDING TO USE.
BUT HOW WOULD YOU FUND,
POLICE, FIRE AND SO ON.
WE BELIEVE THAT THOSE -- THERE
WILL STILL BE ROOM FOR SOME
PROPERTY TAXES TO FUND THOSE
KINDS OF SERVICES.

Janet Solberg says CAN I JUMP INTO ANOTHER
AREA HERE.
I'M INTERESTED IN THE MINDSET
OF THE COMMISSION, WITH THE
GLOBAL ECONOMY AND
RESTRUCTURING, AND WITH THE
SLIGHT OF CAPITAL AND ALL
THOSE MODERN THINGS THAT SCARE
GOVERNMENTS SO MUCH, DID THE
COMMISSION THINK AT ALL WHEN
IT WAS EXAMINING CORPORATE TAX
AND WEALTH TAX, THE IMPACT
THAT YOUR CHANGES WOULD...
RECOMMENDATIONS WOULD HAVE ON
THE ONTARIO ECONOMY?

Monica Townson says YES, WE DID.
AND IN FACT WE RAN THE PACKAGE
THROUGH IN TORONTO TO
DETERMINE WHAT WAS THE IMPACT
ON THE ONTARIO ECONOMY.
AND WE HAVE A SECTION IN HERE
THAT TELLS YOU WHAT THE IMPACT
IT WILL HAVE ON THE GOVERNMENT
DEFICIT, ON UNEMPLOYMENT, ON
PRODUCTIVITY, ON ECONOMIC
GROWTH AND SO ON.
AND THE CHANGES THAT THE
PACKAGE WILL HAVE ON THAT...

Steve says INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH,
YOU'RE AGAINST HIGHER
CORPORATE TAXES.

Monica Townson says YES, BECAUSE WE SAID,
CAPITAL IS VERY MOBILE.
AND IF YOUR TAXES -- IF YOUR
CORPORATE TAXES ARE OUT OF
LINE WITH THOSE OF ADJACENT
JURISDICTIONS, THEN COMPANIES
ARE GOING TO FIND WAYS OF
DECLARING THEIR PROFITS IN
SOME OTHER JURISDICTIONS ARE
JURISDICTION.

Steve says SO ARE YOU GOING TO BRING
IN A MINIMUM CORPORATE TAX...

Monica Townson says AS YOU POINTED OUT, WE DO
NOT RECOMMEND MINIMUM
CORPORATE TAX, HOWEVER, WE DO
SAY THAT TAX EXPENDITURES,
THAT IS TAX BREAKS THAT ARE
GIVEN TO CORPORATIONS NEED TO
BE MORE CAREFULLY MONITORED
THAN THEY ARE NOW.
AND I THINK THE OBJECTIVE OF
THE CORPORATE MINIMUM TAX IS
SIMILAR TO WHAT WE ARE SAYING
IN THE AREA OF CORPORATE TAX.
WE'RE SAYING THAT YOU
SHOULDN'T GIVE CORPORATIONS
TAX BREAKS UNLESS YOU LOOK AT
WHAT.ARE WE GIVING THEM THESE
TAX BREAKS.
ARE THEY ACHIEVING THE
OBJECTIVES FOR WHICH WE'RE
GIVING THEM.

Steve says YOU MOVED TORE A VERY
MODEST WEALTH TAX, RELATIVELY
SPEAKING, BUT PEOPLE LIKE JOHN
CLARKE WHO WOULD HAVE REALLY
EXPECTED THIS GOVERNMENT TO
RAISE MORE MONEY FROM THE MUCH
BETTER OFF ARE GOING TO BE
DISAPPOINTED.

Monica Townson says WHAT WE HAVE SAID IS WE
DON'T THINK IT'S FEASIBLE TO
HAVE A WEALTH TAX AT THE
PROVINCIAL LEVEL.
CLEARLY IF ONE PROVINCE HAD IT
AND OTHERS DIDN'T, HIGH INCOME
PEOPLE WOULD EASILY BE ABLE TO
MOVE THEIR ASSETS TO SOME
OTHER JURISDICTION.

Steve says YOU'RE NODDING YOUR
HEAD,, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE?

Iain says ACCEPTABLE, IT HAPPENS NOW,
PEOPLE WILL BRING IT IN OTHER
PLACES, AND I THINK THE
QUESTION IS VERY SOUND.
I'D LIKE TO ASK ONE OTHER
QUESTION.
WHEN I GOT INTO POLITICS 15
YEARS AGO, WE WERE MOVING TO
MARKET VALUE ASSESSMENT, WHICH
IS THE WAY WE WERE GOING TO
ASSETS ALL OUR HUNDREDS OF
MUNICIPALITIES, WE'RE ABOUT
TWO-THIRDS OF THE WAY THROUGH
THAT EXERCISE NOW.
ARE YOU TELLING US TO ABANDON
THAT AND BEGIN WITH AN
ENTIRELY NEW ASSESSMENT?

Steve says FOR THE RECORD YOU'RE
AGAINST THAT.

Monica Townson says WE ARE OPPOSED TO MARKET
UE ASSESSMENT BECAUSE W
THINK IT'S A TOTAL ZOO OUT
THERE, AND WE POINT THAT OUT
CLEARLY.
THE BIG ISSUE FOR PEOPLE AT
THE PUBLIC HEARINGS SAID THIS
IS SO UNFAIR, -- WE HAVE NO
IDEA WHY OUR PROPERTY IS
ESSED AT THAT AND M
A
NEIGHBOUR IS ASSESSED AT.
THAT WHAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING
IS A NEW SYSTEM OF UNIT VALUE
ASSESSMENT THAT WILL BE BASED
ON THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY
AND CURRENT USE.
AND JUST TO SAY WE'LL MOVE TO
MARKET VALUE, OWING ABOUT...
ONLY ABOUT 6 percent OF PEOPLE IN
ONTARIO ARE ACTUALLY COVERED
BY THAT SYSTEM, BECAUSE MOST
OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MOVED
TO MARKET VALUE ARE IN RURAL
MUNICIPALITIES.

Steve says THAT'S GOT TO BE THE
LAST WORD TONIGHT.
MONICA FROM THE FAIR TAX
COMMISSION THANKS FOR COMING
IN.
STICK AROUND, COME UP NEXT,
ROWDY MPP'S WRAP UP AT QUEENS
PARK.

The fourth reading sequence appears on screen.

A clip of Mike Harris speaking appears on screen with a caption that reads "No Love Lost," "Mike Harris, Ontario P.C. Leader." Mike Harris is in his forties, has short, side-parted gray hair, is clean-shaven, and wears a black suit, white shirt, and patterned tie.

Mike Harris says WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT
AGENDA, AND EVEN WHEN WE DO
GET ON TO SOME OF THE RIGHT
IDEAS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE
COMPETENCE OR THE CAPABILITY
OR THE MANAGEMENT OF BEING
ABLE TO CARRY IT THROUGH.

A woman in her fifties appears on screen with short, tall, dull gray hair cut in the shape of a bowl with a caption that reads "Lyn McLeod, Ontario Liberal Leader."

Lyn McLeod says THE ONLY GOOD NEWS IS THAT
WE ARE A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO
THE END OF BOB RAE'S TERM IN
GOVERNMENT.

A man in his fifties with short, side-parted gray hair wearing tortoise shell glasses appears on screen.

The man with glasses says THE BS ON OTHER SIDE
DOESN'T ADD UP TO ANYTHING.
THEY'RE AGAINST EVERYTHING.
THEY'RE OPPOSED TO EVERY
POSITION.
THEY'RE NEGATIVE.
THEY'RE CAMPING.
AND I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE A
VISION OR A CLUE AS TO WHAT
THE REST OF THE CENTURY IS
GOING TO LOOK LIKE OR WHAT THE
2st CENTURY IS GOING TO LOOK
LIKE, AND I THINK WE DO.

Back in the studio, Steve says THE MP'S HAVE HEAD
HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS.
WE HAVE SEEN SEVERAL BILLS
PASSED FROM THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT LEGISLATION, TO THE
CASINO IN WINDSOR, AN
ENVIRONMENTAL BILL OF RIGHTS.
THE OPPOSITION SAYS THE
GOVERNMENT HAS GONE INTO
ELECTION MODE.
I GUESS THAT'S RIGHT, ISN'T
IT?
ELECTION IS IN THE AIR?

Sally Barnes says YOU'RE 18 MONTHS AWAY,
YOU'RE IN THE MODE.
BUT THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF
WHAT THEY DID IN THIS SESSION.
JANET RENO WILL DISAGREE ME,
BUT THEY DIDN'T ACCOMPLISH
VERY MUCH AT ALL.
BUT THEY DID ACCOMPLISH TO
INVOKE CLOSURE SEVEN TIMES.
THIS DOESN'T MEAN A WHOLE LOT
TO THE PERSON ON THE STREET,
BUT PEOPLE WHO WATCH
PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE, IT IS
SHAMEFUL THEY CUT OFF DEBATE
ON MAJOR BILLS, WHILE...

Janet Solberg says YOU CAN'T SAY THEY VANITY
DONE ENOUGH AND THEN SAY THEY
HAVE TO BRING IN CLOSURE.
THE REASON THEY BRING IN
CLOSURE IS THEY'RE TRYING TO
GET SOME VIEWS THROUGH WITH
OPPOSITION.

Sally Barnes says ARE YOU SUGGESTING WE
SHOULD HAVE A TOTAL
DICTATORSHIP?

Janet Solberg says OF COURSE NOT.

Ian Scott says I THINK THIS SESSION WAS
SORT OF THE TURN AROUND
SESSION.
THEY FINISHED UP SOME
IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE THE
ENVIRONMENTAL BILL RIGHTS
WHICH HAS BEEN WAITING AROUND
A LONG TIME.
THE SOCIAL CONTRACT, THE
EMPLOYMENT EQUITY ACT WHICH IS
AN IMPORTANT THING.
THEN THEY DID SOME MONEY
GRABBING BILLS LIKE THE
CASINOS AND THE PHOTO THING
FOR THE...
WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND IS IN
THE NEXT SESSION THEY MOVE TO
A SERIES OF INITIATIVES, WHICH
THEY HOPE HAD BEEN UNIVERSALLY
POPULAR.
BUT PASSES FOR THE TOUGH
STUFF, THE NDP GOVERNMENT HAS
NOT BEEN EFFECTIVELY DONE AND
THEY'RE MOVING INTO THE
ELECTION MODE.

Steve says IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIST, I
MEAN, IT'S 20, 22 BILLS,...
WELL, IT'S NOT QUANTITY,
IT'S QUALITY, PRESUMABLY, ARE
YOU IMPRESSED THE QUALITY OF
WHAT'S BEEN DONE HERE.
THE EMPLOYMENT EQUITY BILL
PASSED WAS FIRST IN NORTH
AMERICA, BUT IT WAS A LONG WAY
FROM WHAT PEOPLE WANTED.

Janet Solberg says SOME PEOPLE WANTED WAS IN
OPPOSITION AND YOU'RE NOT SURE
WHAT THEY WANTED.
THE VERY FIRST QUESTION I WAS
ASKED WHEN I CAME ON TO THE
SHOW WAS WHAT DOES BOB RAE
HAVE TO DO TO GET REELECTED
AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, I THINK
IT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR
CHALLENGE FOR THE NDP
GOVERNMENT AND BOB RAE AS
LEADER TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT
THEY'VE DONE IN A POSITIVE AND
CONSTRUCTIVE LIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO
OVER THE NEXT 18 MONTHS.
I SAID AT THE BEGINNING AND
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN NOW, THEY
DON'T HAVE TO PASS ANOTHER
PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS
COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY.

Sally Barnes says I DISAGREE.

Janet Solberg says I THINK THEY HAVE GOT A
GOOD RECORD.

Sally Barnes says I THINK PUBLIC KNOWS ALL
TOO WELL WHAT THEY'VE DONE
THAT'S WHY YOU ARE WHERE YOU
ARE INTERIOR THE POLLS.
YOU'VE COMMUNICATION THE YOUR
MESSAGE VERY WELL.

Steve says YOU JUST CHAT WITH PEOPLE
ON THE STREET, AND THIS ISN'T
SCIENTIFIC, ASK THEM, WOULD
YOU VOTE FOR THE NDP NEXT
TIME, AND TO A PERSON,
EVERYBODY SAYS NO WAY.
WHAT'S BOB RAE DONE YOU DON'T
LIKE?
WELL, HE'S -- IT WAS THAT...
THEY CAN'T PUT THEIR FINGER ON
ANYTHING.
THEY CAN'T SAY IT WAS THIS
BILL OR THAT ACTION.
IT'S A GENERAL...

Janet Solberg says IT'S AN ISSUE WITH
MANAGEMENT AND CONFIDENCE.

Ian Scott says EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM IN
THE '30'S.
THEY PASSED SOME PROGRESSIVE
LEGISLATION, AND WITH ELECTION
TIME IN 1935, IT DIDN'T DO HIM
ANY GOOD AT ALL, AND THAT'S
PRACTICAL PROBLEM HERE.
IT MAY NOT BE FAIR, BUT THAT'S
WHAT HAPPENS.
I'VE NEVER MET, AND THERE MAY
BE SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO
ARE IN THIS CAT BETTER, BUT
I'VE NEVER MET ANYBODY WHO
LITERALLY, NOBODY, WHO IS
PREPARED TO SAY, I DIDN'T VOTE
FOR THE NDP LAST TIME, BECAUSE
I'M SURE GOING TO VOTE FOR
THEM NEXT TIME.
I'VE MET A NUMBER OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF
THAT LEDGER.

Steve says 18 MONTHS ENOUGH TIME TO
TURN IT AROUND?

Sally Barnes says IT AIN'T OVER TILL IT'S
OVER.
I WOULDN'T TAKE ANY MONEY THAT
RAE COULDN'T DO IT ALL OVER
AGAIN, A LOT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

Steve says WHAT IF THE REFORM PARTY
DECIDES TO RUN THE NEXT TIME.

Sally Barnes says I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING
TO HAPPEN WITH ANY LUCK AT ALL
BECAUSE I HAVE SELFISH REASONS
FOR SAYING THAT.
BUT THIS WAS A GOVERNMENT THAT
PROMISED TAX REFORM, AND
ALWAYS GOT NOW IS THIS 9
MILLION DOLLAR REPORT.

Janet Solberg says WELL, VERY -- THE GOVERNMENT
HAS A RECORD.
IT HAS TO DEFEND.
I THINK IT'S A RECORD WORTH
DEFENDING, AND IF IT DOES
THAT, IF IT MANAGES TO
COMMUNICATE WHAT IT'S DONE,
THE POSITIVE THINGS IT'S DONE
FOR WORKING PEOPLE IN
ONTARIO...

Steve says 30 SECOND TO GO, ANY
PREDICTIONS?
UPCOMING YEAR?

Janet Solberg says ECONOMY AND TAX.

Ian Scott says I THINK LEGISLATIVELY, IT
WILL BE QUIET AND THEY'LL TRY
TO DO ALL GOOD STUFF AND NO
BAD STUFF.

Sally Barnes says JOBS, CRISIS IN QUEBEC, BAD
NEWS COMING FROM THE FEDERAL
DEPOSIT, THAT'S GOING TO
IMPACT ON THE PROVINCIAL
GOVERNMENT.
A LITTLE BIT OF GOOD NEWS
COMING FROM THE STATES, BUT
GENERALLY I DON'T SEE A GREAT
TURN AROUND IN THE ECONOMY.

Steve says WE'LL WATCH AND SEE.
WE'RE ALSO GOING TO WATCH AND
SEE THIS ITEM COMING UP.
THIS IS THE TIME OF YEAR FOR
GIVING.
WHILE THERE WAS PLENTY OF
GIVING AND A LITTLE TAKE IN
THE LAST SESSION, TOSS IN A
DASH OF CONFUSION AND A PINCH
OF COMPASSION, AND THE HOLIDAY
CHEER AT QUEENS PARK WAS
SOMEWHATLESS INTOXICATING THAN
THE USUAL.
LET'S CHECK IT ONTARIO THIS
WEEK'S POSTCARD FROM THE
LEDGE.

A TV sits in a bush outside of Queen’s Park with a title that reads "Postcard from the Leg, Fourth reading."

A man in his fifties with short, side-parted gray hair and clean-shaven says FIRST AND WE'RE LAST, HOW
COME?

The premier says MINISTER?

Another man in his fifties with short, side-parted gray hair and clean-shaven says WELL, MR. SPEAKER, FIRST OF
ALL, THE LEADER DOESN'T HAVE
TO YELL THE QUESTION.
I CAN HEAR IT.
THE COMMENTS THAT I'M HEARING
FROM ACROSS THE WAY IS ONE OF
THE REASONS WHY I'VE TUNED OUT
THAT MEMBER FOR ALMOST THE
LAST YEAR EVERY TIME HE GETS
UP IN THE HOUSE.

A black screen appears with a caption that reads "Being there."

Back in the house, the man with tortoise shell glasses says THEY'RE ASKING YOU TO
KNOWN, AND HE'S THERE ASKING
ME TO MAKE THOSE INTERVENTIONS
ON BEHALF OF HIM AND HIS
CONSTITUENTS, I CAN SAY I'LL
BE THERE.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE
HONOURABLE LIBERAL WILL BE.
I'LL BE THERE.
I'LL BE THERE FIGHTING FOR
EMPLOYMENT.
I'LL BE THERE.
AND I'M -- I KNOW WHERE THE
HONORABLE MEMBER WILL BE,
HE'LL BE THERE ASKING FOR THE
DISRENTABLE PREMIER -- THAT'S
WHAT I'LL BE DOING, HELP HPG
THE HONOURABLE.

- HELPING THE HONOURABLE
MEMBER.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE.
MR. SPEAKER,...

A black screen appears and a caption reads "Lost and Found."

As a man in his fifties with short, side-parted gray hair and clean-shaven speaks, Don Cousens sits next to him and a caption reads "Tory Don Cousens finds a new home?"

Another shot shows Mike Harris sitting at his desk alone and a caption reads "The new, liberal, Mike Harris???!!"

The premier continues YOUR RESPONSE, AND RESPONSE
YOUR GOVERNMENT...

A black screen appears and a caption reads "Just Wondering…."

A man in his forties with short, middle-parted, dark gray hair and clean-shaven says PREMIER, WHEN YOU GET UP IN
THE MORNING AND READ THE
PAPER, THERE MUST BE DAYS WHEN
YOU WANT TO ROLL OVER AND
CLIMB BACK IN BED.

The man in tortoise shell glasses says MR. SPEAKER, I APPRECIATE
THE MEMBER'S CONCERN FOR HOW I
FEEL WHEN I WAKE UP IN THE
MORNING, AND I WANT HIM, MR.
SPEAKER,...
LISTEN, WHAT IS THIS?
WHAT IS THAT?
ARE YOU BOWING?

Floyd Laughren appears on screen and says THAT'S GOOD QUESTION, A
VERY GOOD QUESTION.
WHY IS THE OPPOSITION SO RANGY
TODAY, MR. SPEAKER.

The Speaker appears on screen in his sixties with short side-parted gray hair, silver glasses, and clean-shaven and says THIS IS NOTHING NEW, IT'S
ONLY 700 YEARS OF HISTORY.

A black screen appears with a caption that reads "Have yourself a merry…."

A man in his sixties with balding gray hair, big glasses, and clean-shave says MR. SPEAKER,...
IS THERE ANY WAY THE
MINISTER OF FINANCE COULD MAKE
MY CHRISTMAS AND MAKE SOME
KIND OF ANNOUNCEMENT ON THE
HOME OWNERSHIP PLAN FOR THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
THAT'S WHAT I WANT MOST OF
ALL.

A man in his fifties with short, side-parted gray hair and clean-shaven says WE HAVE DECIDED TO EXTEND
THE PROGRAM INDEFINITELY,
EXCEPT FOR THE LAND TRANSFER
TAX COMPONENT.

A man in his fifties with short, side-parted brown hair and clean-shaven with a caption that reads "David Turnball PC York Mills" appears on screen and says I TOO WOULD HAVE A LIST,
AND IT WOULD BE HEADED BY THE
REQUEST COULD WE HAVE AN
ELECTION IN THE SHORT TERM
FUTURE.

The premier says THE SHORT ANSWER IS YOU
HAVE TO SEE THE LIEUTENANT
GOVERNOR.

Back in the studio, Steve says OKAY, FOLKS, THANKS,
HAPPY NEW YEAR, ALL BE SEE YOU
AGAIN NEXT SEASON.
THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT.
ONE NOTE BEFORE WE LEAVE YOU,
FOURTH READING IS MOVING TIME
SLOTS.
WE'LL STILL BE ON THURSDAY
NIGHTS AT 11, BUT IF YOU
EUROPE USUALLY CATCH US ON
FRIDAYS, SET YOUR WATCH BACK A
HALF AN HOUR.
WE'LL BE HERE AT 7 p.m.
NOW WE'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THE
CANADIAN CHILDREN'S HOLIDAY
CHORUS.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS, WE'LL SEE YOU
NEXT YEAR.

A clip of the children’s chorus sings as the credits roll.

Host, Steve Paikin.
Show Producer, Susanna Kelley.
Story Editor, Richard Martyn.
Production Manager, Shellie Rubin.
Director, Allan Myers.

A production of TVOntaro, copyright The Ontario Educational Communications Authority 1993.

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