Transcript: Fourth Reading 3 Program 1 | Sep 30, 1993

(Theme music plays)
A clean-shaven man in his forties, prematurely white, formally dressed in gray and wearing glasses speaks for the camera. Middle-aged MPs sit looking concerned. A blue vertical bar on the screen reads "Jobs, jobs, jobs." A Minister speaks. Then the vertical bar reads "Tough on Trade, as building crews mix concrete. A blue number four forms the "4th Reading" logo at the centre of the screen.

Steve says TONIGHT ON "FOURTH READING,"
JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.
QUEENS PARK POLITICIANS PLAY
TO THE GALLERY.
AND TALKING TOUGH ON TRADE.
ONTARIO OUSTS THE ANTE IN THE
CONSTRUCTION TRADE WAR WITH QUEBEC.

Steve Paikin stands in the studio with two women and a man sitting in the background. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a black suit over a white shirt and a pink polka-dot tie. Behind him, a logo reads "4th Reading."

STEVE says WELL FEDERAL
POLITICIANS AREN'T THE ONLY
ONES IN THE HUSTINGS THESE DAYS.
AFTER ONE OF THE BRIEFEST
SUMMER BREAKS EVER,
POLITICIANS AT QUEENS PARK ARE
BACK IN THE LEGISLATURE READY
TO DO BATTLE.
AND THEY'RE ALREADY CASTING AN
EYE TOWARDS THE NEXT
PROVINCIAL ELECTION.
GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY, I'M
STEVE PAIKIN.
WELCOME BACK TO A BRAND NEW
SEASON OF "FOURTH READING."
AS FAR AS THE STRATEGISTS FOR
THE PARTIES ARE CONCERNED,
THERE IS ONLY ONE ISSUE ON THE
PUBLIC'S MINDS THESE DAYS, JOBS.
TONIGHT AN INTERVIEW WITH ONE
OF THE MOST POWERFUL PLAYERS
AFFECTING ONTARIO'S FUTURE,
FINANCE MINISTER FLOYD LAUGHREN.
BUT FIRST SOME BACKGROUND.

Lyn McLeod, with graying blond hair in a bob and glasses, stands and speaks in Parliament.

She says IT IS YOUR GOVERNMENT, YOUR
MISMANAGEMENT THAT IS MAKING
IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THIS ECONOMY TO RECOVER.

Bob Rae, graying in his fifties, says IT'S THE LEADER OF THE
OPPOSITION WHO DOESN'T HAVE A
BONE OF CONSISTENCY IN THE
QUESTION SHE'S PUT TO US, MR. SPEAKER.
(Applause)

A general view shows Parliament in session.

STEVE says ALL THE HEAVY
POLITICKING MAY BE AT THE
FEDERAL LEVEL THESE DAYS BUT
THAT DOESN'T STOP THE SHOW AT
QUEENS PARK.
AFTER ALL IT'S LESS THAN TWO
YEARS TILL BOB RAE'S
GOVERNMENT HAS TO GO BACK TO
THE PEOPLE AND SEEK
RE-ELECTION.
AND SO THE NDP AND BOTH
OPPOSITION PARTIES ARE
SHARPENING THEIR MESSAGE AS
NEVER BEFORE, AND THE MESSAGE,
AT LEAST FOR THE PUBLIC, IS JOBS.

Liberal politicians are shown at work with papers on a desk.

Steve continues FOR THE OFFICIAL OPPOSITION,
THE LIBERALS, THAT MEANS
KEEPING THE NDP ON ITS TOES IN
THE LEGISLATURE AND PREPARING
ITS POLICY ALTERNATIVES.
THAT STRATEGY BEGINS WITH BOB
RICHARDSON, THE LIBERAL
LEADER'S MOST INFLUENTIAL ADVISOR.

Bob appears, he is in his thirties with wavy brown hair and wears glasses. A caption reads "Bob Richardson, Liberal Principal Secretary."

Bob says WE'VE BEEN REACTING TO THE
GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA.
THAT'S WHAT YOU DO IN
OPPOSITION.
AND NOW OUR JOB IS TO GO INTO
A FOURTH YEAR OF THEIR MANDATE...
IS TO TELL PEOPLE A LITTLE BIT
MORE ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD DO IN
THE FUTURE AND WE INTEND TO DO
THAT OVER THE NEXT EIGHT TO
TEN MONTHS.

Steve says THE LIBERALS HAVE BEEN
CRITICIZED BY THE OTHER TWO
PARTIES FOR THEIR FUZZINESS ON
MANY KEY ISSUES.
THEY'VE HAD THEIR LEADER, LYN
McLEOD, TRAVELLING ACROSS MUCH
OF ONTARIO OVER THE PAST FEW
MONTHS TO MEET VOTERS.

The woman with graying hair in a bob speaks. A caption reads "Lyn McLeod, Ontario Liberal Leader."

Lyn says THERE IS A LEVEL OF ANXIETY.
I WOULD BE MUCH HAPPIER TO SEE
PEOPLE GETTING BACK TO WORK,
EVEN IF THAT MAKES IT A LITTLE
BIT TOUGHER FOR THE OPPOSITION.

The Conservative spokesman, gray-haired in his fifties, says
I'M INTERESTED IN THE
PREMIER'S QUESTION, MR.
SPEAKER, BECAUSE...

Steve continues THE THIRD PLACE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY IS FEELING
BUOYED BY TWO THINGS, THE
IMPROVED PERFORMANCE OF ITS
LEADER AND SOME ENCOURAGING
PUBLIC OPINION POLLS SHOWING
THE PARTY GAINING POPULARITY.
PC LEADER MIKE HARRIS SEEMS
UNDAUNTED, BUT THE PUBLIC MAY
BE MISSING ALL OF THIS BECAUSE
OF THE FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

Mike speaks to Steve. A caption reads "Mike Harris, Ontario PC Leader."

Mike says WILL I BE ABLE TO GET THE
HEADLINE STORY?
PERHAPS NOT.
BUT CAN I INFLUENCE THIS
GOVERNMENT?
I THINK I CAN.
I THINK BOB RAE IS DESPERATE
FOR NEW IDEAS.
HE'S FOUND OUT OVER THE FIRST TWO YEARS
WHAT DOESN'T WORK, RUNNING UP
THE HUGE DEFICIT AND THE
ECONOMY IT DOESN'T WORK.
HE'S OBVIOUSLY LOOKING FOR NEW
DIRECTIONS HIMSELF.

Steve continues THE TORY'S PUBLIC STRATEGY
FOR THE UPCOMING SESSION...
PROMOTE THEIR IDEAS TO
DOWNSIZE GOVERNMENT AND FREE
THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO CREATE
JOBS.

David Lindsay, PC Principal Secretary, says
IN THE LAST TEN YEARS WE'VE
HAD HUGE TAX INCREASES,
REGULATORY BURDEN, INCREASING
RED TAPE, AND PAPERWORK
FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CREATE JOBS.
PEOPLE THAT WANT TO INVEST IN ONTARIO.
SO WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO IS GET
THOSE IMPEDIMENTS REDUCED AND
SO PEOPLE WILL INVEST AGAIN IN
ONTARIO AND CREATE JOBS.

Steve continues THE NEW DEMOCRATS DECLINED
TO MAKE AN OFFICIAL IN THE
PREMIER'S OFFICE AVAILABLE TO
DISCUSS THE GOVERNMENT
STRATEGY FOR THE UPCOMING SESSION.
CLEARLY THE NDP'S TOP
PRIORITIES ARE JOB CREATION
AND HOLDING DOWN THE DEFICIT.

The Finance Minister says THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE GOING THROOUGH...

Steve continues TO THAT END ,THE GOVERNMENT
GOT SOME BAD NEWS ON THE FIRST
DAY THE HOUSE RECONVENED.
THE STANDARD AND POOR'S RATING
AGENCY PUT ONTARIO ON CREDIT
WATCH BECAUSE THE FINANCE
MINISTER CONFIRMED REVENUES
ARE OFF ALMOST 1 BILLION DOLLARS.

During a demonstration, a banner reads "Ontario Public Service Employees Union."

A voice says WE SAY FIGHT BACK, THEY SAY
CUT BACK, WE SAY FIGHT BACK!

SOME NEW DEMOCRATS BELIEVE
THEY'VE GAINED PUBLIC SUPPORT
THROUGH THEIR SO-CALLED SOCIAL CONTRACT.
EVEN THOUGH IT'S MADE SOME OF
THEIR FRIENDS IN LABOUR ANGRY.
THE SOCIAL CONTRACT WAS
DESIGNED TO CUT 2 BILLION DOLLARS
FROM THE PUBLIC PAYROLL AND
WAS BROUGHT IN WITHOUT ANY
PUBLIC SECTOR UNION STRIKES.
A DEMONSTRATION BY THE PUBLIC
SERVICE EMPLOYEE'S UNION ON
THE DAY THE HOUSE RECONVENED
DREW JUST A HANDFUL OF DEMONSTRATORS.

The small protest is seen in front of the Parliament.

STEVE says WELL THE RECESSION
HAS DOGGED THE NDP GOVERNMENT
LIKE NO OTHER ISSUE SINCE
COMING TO POWER IN SEPTEMBER
OF 1990.

Steve reads off a blue slate titled "Fact File."

Steve continues THAT'S ROUGHLY WHEN THE
RECESSION STARTED AND THE
NUMBER OF PEOPLE EMPLOYED IN
ONTARIO DROPPED BY 204,000,
ALTHOUGH THAT NUMBER IS BACK
UP BY 90,000 NOW.
THE NDP BOASTS THAT ITS JOBS
ONTARIO PROGRAM HAS SPARKED
MORE THAN 104,000 JOBS AT A
COST OF ABOUT $637 MILLION.
NOW, FIGHTING TO LOWER THOSE
UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS HAS BEEN
A FRUSTRATING EXPERIENCE FOR A
PARTY THAT DECLARED ITSELF "THE
DEFENDER OF WORKING PEOPLE."
THIS WEEK AT QUEENS PARK,
FLOYD LAUGHREN REFLECTED ON
THE ROAD HE'S TRAVELED SINCE
BECOMING FINANCE MINISTER.

Gray-haired, clean-shaven Floyd, in his sixties, speaks to Steve. A caption reads "Floyd Laughren, Ontario Finance Minister."

Floyd says TWO YEARS AGO I WANTED TO
MAKE ALL SORTS OF INTERESTING
PROGRESSIVE PROGRAMS.
I STILL DO, BUT NOW I KNOW
THAT A LOT OF THOSE ARE GOING
TO HAVE TO WAIT.
THAT WE'VE GOT TO GET OUR
FINANCIAL HOUSE IN ORDER AND
KEEP IT THERE, BEFORE SOME OF
THOSE THINGS CAN BE DONE.
NOW HAVING SAID THAT, WE ARE
MOVING AGGRESSIVELY WITH
EMPLOYMENT EQUITY.
WE'VE ALREADY MOVED ON PAY EQUITY.
WE'VE DONE ALL SORTS OF REALLY
GOOD THINGS.

Steve says NOT THE WAY YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE, WE
SHOULD HASTEN TO ADD.

Floyd says CORRECT -- NOT AS FAST AS WE WOULD
HAVE LIKED,, AND I THINK A LOT
OF ATTENTION IS PUT ON WHAT WE
HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO
BECAUSE OF OUR FISCAL PROBLEMS.

Steve says AS YOU KNOW, A LOT OF YOUR
NDP PARTY LOYALISTS WOULD HAVE
SAID "DAMN THE DEFICIT, PEOPLE
ARE IN TROUBLE.
SPEND WHAT YOU HAVE TO GET US
OUT OF THIS."

Floyd says I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU
THAT A LOT OF TRADITIONAL
SUPPORTERS WOULD MAKE THAT
ARGUMENT, HAVE MADE THAT ARGUMENT.
BUT WHAT IT IGNORES IS THE FACT
THAT IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT,
YOU HAVE TO BORROW MONEY
TO DO IT, AND IF YOU RUN THE
DEFICIT UP TO THAT DEGREE AND
DON'T DO THE EXPENDITURE
REDUCTION SIDE AS WELL, YOU
END UP WITH A VERY LARGE DEFICIT.
WE WOULD BE FLIRTING WITH
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 17 AND 20
BILLION A YEAR.
WE CAN'T BORROW MONEY FOR VERY
LONG AND THEN WHAT YOU DO...
WE'RE "DOUBLE-A" NOW.
IF -- THE CREDIT RATING AGENCYS
RATE ALL THE DIFFERENT
JURISDICTIONS.
WE'RE DOUBLE A NOW AND WE COULD
DROP TO A, SINGLE A.
WE THINK THAT OUR SOURCES OF
BORROWING WOULD DROP BY ALMOST
50 PERCENT.
THE NUMBER OF ORGANIZATIONS
-- AND COMPANIES,
INSURANCE COMPANIES, AND SO
FORTH, THAT BUY OUR BONDS WOULD
DROP VERY DRAMATICALLY BECAUSE
THERE ARE SOME ORGANIZATIONS
THAT WILL NOT LEND TO ANYTHING
OTHER THAN A DOUBLE A OR
TRIPLE A SO THERE IS NO
QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
SECONDLY, EVEN IF THEY DID,
EVEN IF THEY SAID, "ALL RIGHT,
BECAUSE ONTARIO HAS A GREAT
FUTURE AND IT'S THE HEARTLAND
OF THE COUNTRY, WE'LL CONTINUE
TO LEND YOU MONEY."
IT WOULD COST MORE, WHY WOULDN'T THEY, KNOWING THAT
THEY HAD A CAPTIVE MARKET, AND
THEREFORE THE INTEREST IN THE
PUBLIC DEBT EVERY YEAR WOULD
KEEP CLIMBING.
WHEN WE FORMED THE GOVERNMENT,
THE CUMULATIVE DEBT OF THE
PROVINCE WAS ROUGHLY 30 BILLION.

Steve says THE DEFICIT YEAR AFTER
YEAR.

Floyd says RIGHT SINCE ONTARIO BEGAN
WAS AROUND -- SORRY, IT WAS
AROUND 40.
THE LIBERALS FORMED THE
GOVERNMENT IN '85.
THEN IT WAS 30.
AND IN GOOD TIMES THEY TOOK IT
UP TO 40.
RIGHT NOW, IT'S ABOUT 70, AFTER
ABOUT THREE YEARS, SO -- IN
GOVERNMENT, SO WE'VE ALREADY

- THAT'S WHY THE DEBT, THE
INTEREST IS OVER 7 BILLION DOLLARS A
YEAR NOW.
SO THAT THERE ARE LIMITS ON
HOW QUICKLY YOU CAN RUN THAT UP.

Steve says DO YOU HAVE A SELLING PROBLEM?
DOES YOUR GOVERNMENT STILL
HAVE ENOUGH CREDIBILITY LEFT IN THE
REMAINING YEARS BEFORE THE
NEXT ELECTION TO GET PEOPLE...
YOU SEE WHERE YOU ARE IN THE
POLLS FEDERALLY.
PROVINCIALLY NOT SO BAD, BUT
FEDERALLY ATROCIOUS.
DOES THIS PARTY, DOES THIS
MOVEMENT HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY
LEFT TO TURN IT AROUND?

Floyd says I THINK SO.
AND I MEAN THAT.
I THINK THAT THERE IS SOME...
IN SOME CASES BEGRUDGING
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.
BUT NEVERTHELESS
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT WHAT
WE'RE DOING IS MORE TO CONTROL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE ECONOMY,
IT IS MORE SENSITIVE THAN WHAT
OTHER GOVERNMENTS HAVE DONE.
YOU LOOK AT THE RECORD.

Steve says SO POLLS SUGGEST THAT THE
PUBLIC LIKES THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT AND OTHER EXPENDITURE
RESTRAINT MEASURES YOU'VE TAKEN?

Floyd says NO, I DON'T SAY THAT A
CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE
SAY WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT
THING OR WRONG THING.
BUT I THINK THAT MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE ARE -- HAVE
ACKNOWLEDGED THE FACT.
THEY CERTAINLY SAY IT TO ME,
THAT WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING,
AND THAT AT LEAST WE'RE A
GOVERNMENT THAT HAS TACKLED
THE PROBLEM AND MAY BE PAYING
A POLITICAL PRICE FOR IT, BUT
ON THE OTHER HAND PEOPLE SAY
TO ME AS WELL, WE DON'T WANT
GOVERNMENT TO SIMPLY DO WHAT
PEOPLE WANT ALL THE TIME.
THAT THEY WANT GOVERNMENTS TO
MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS.
WELL WE'VE MADE SOME TOUGH
DECISIONS AND I DON'T EXPECT
TO BE PRAISED FOR IT, BUT I DO
THINK THAT BY THE END OF THE
DAY, BY THE END OF THE DAY, I
MEAN AT THE END OF OUR FIRST MANDATE WHEN
IT'S TIME TO GO BACK TO THE
PEOPLE, THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO
SAY TO THEM, "LOOK, WE'VE GOVERNED
IN THE TOUGHEST TIMES SINCE
THE 1930'S," AND THAT'S TRUE.
AT THE SAME TIME WE'VE BROUGHT
IN THE FOLLOWING PROGRAMS THAT
ARE IN KEEPING WITH WHAT WE
BELIEVE IN, PAY EQUITY,
EMPLOYMENT EQUITY, PROTECTION
OF WORKERS, THE ENVIRONMENTAL
BILL OF RIGHTS, I COULD GO ON AND ON.
WE'VE DONE A LOT OF THINGS,
AND WHILE CERTAIN PEOPLE MAY
NOT LIKE THE SOCIAL CONTRACT,
FOR EXAMPLE, AT LEAST WE
TACKLED THE PROBLEM AND WE DID
IT WITHOUT MASSIVE LAYOFFS IN
THE PUBLIC SECTOR, WHICH OTHER
PROVINCES HAVE DONE.

Steve says BUT DO YOU -- YOU MUST HAVE
SURVEYS AND PUBLIC OPINION
POLLS OR SOMETHING THAT COME
TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT SUGGEST
THAT THE PUBLIC LIKES WHAT
YOU'RE DOING OR DOESN'T LIKE
WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Floyd says I HAVE NOT SEEN THEM.

Steve says YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THEM.

Floyd says NO, I HAVE NOT.
BUT MAYBE THAT'S AN INDICATION OF
HOW STRONGLY WE FEEL THAT WE
HAD TO DO IT.
WE DIDN'T GO OUT AND TAKE A
POLL SAYING WILL THE PUBLIC
SUPPORT A SOCIAL CONTRACT, OR
WILL THE PUBLIC SUPPORT THE
PLAN THAT TOOK AWAY 4 BILLION DOLLARS
IN SPENDING THIS YEAR?
WE DIDN'T DO A POLL ON THAT.
I THINK THAT'S GOOD.
PEOPLE SAY WELL IT MAY BE GOOD
BUT NOT POLITICALLY SMART.
WELL, MAYBE TIME FOR
POLITICAL SMART, MAYBE THAT'S
BEEN OVERWORKED A BIT.
AND I REALLY DO BELIEVE IT WAS
THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS EVER
HAPPENS, BUT ON THE SOCIAL
CONTRACT, ON THE EXPENDITURE
CONTROL PLAN, I HAVE NOT HAD
ONE SLEEPLESS NIGHT OR SECOND-GUESSED MYSELF ONCE.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT MOST OF OUR
GOVERNMENT HAS.

Steve says BUT THEY'RE HANGING YOU IN EFFIGY OUT THERE.
(Laughter)

In the Studio, STEVE says OKAY LET'S PURSUE
SOME OF THIS A BIT.
TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO TALK
ABOUT HOW THE THREE PARTIES AT
QUEENS PARK WILL TRY TO SELL
THEIR MESSAGE TO THE PUBLIC
OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS,
AND RETURNING THIS YEAR TO OUR
"FOURTH READING" PANEL ARE A
COUPLE OF VETERANS.

A blue slate shows a photo of a woman in her fifties with blond hair in a bob, wearing a green dress. The slate spins around, the opposite side showing a man in his sixties with thinning gray hair. It spins again to show a woman in her forties with blond hair in a bob.

Steve continues SALLY BARNES, COMMUNICATIONS
CONSULTANT AND COLUMNIST.
SHE IS A FORMER ADVISOR TO
CONSERVATIVE PREMIERS BILL
DAVIS AND FRANK MILLER.
IAN SCOTT IS BACK WITH US AGAIN.
HE'S A LAWYER, FORMERLY THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL IN DAVID
PETERSON'S LIBERAL GOVERNMENT.
AND WE HAVE A NEWCOMER THIS YEAR.
JANET SOLBERG, CONSULTANT,
RESEARCHER, FORMERLY PRESIDENT
OF THE ONTARIO NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
WELCOME BACK TO YOU TWO.
WELCOME BACK FOR THE FIRST
TIME TO YOU.
WE HOPE YOU ENJOY YOURSELF HERE.
WE SHOULD SAY THAT JANET COMES
BY HER SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC
VALUES HONESTLY.
MICHAEL LEWIS YOUR BROTHER WAS WITH THE
STEEL WORKER'S UNION, SO
WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.
OKAY, YOU KNOW THE MESSAGE
COMING OUT OF QUEENS PARK THESE DAYS AND
IT IS JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.
THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY IS
TALKING ABOUT.
ON THE OTHER HAND WE JUST HEARD
FLOYD LAUGHREN EXPOUND QUITE
EFFECTIVELY ON THE ISSUE OF
DEBT AND DEFICITS.
SO WHAT IS THE PRIORITY?
JANET, LET'S START WITH YOU.
DO YOU SEE IT AS BEING JOBS OR
DEFICIT REDUCTION?

A caption reads "Janet Solberg, Former Ontario NDP President."

JANET says I THINK
FLOYD IS TALKING AS ANY
TREASURER WOULD TALK.
THIS IS THE TREASURER OF
ONTARIO TALKING.
EVERY TREASURER THAT I'VE EVER
KNOWN IS WORRIED ABOUT THE
GENERATION OF REVENUE AND THE
CONTROL OF EXPENDITURES, AND
HAVING SAID THAT, I KNOW THAT
PUTTING FRANCIS -- IN AS THE MINISTER OF
ECONOMIC TRADE AND DEVELOPMENT
AND BOB'S PERSISTENCE AROUND
THE JOBS ISSUES, THE
PREMIER'S, IT'S VERY HIGH ON
THE GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA AND
ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
YOU DON'T CREATE 104,000 JOBS
AND SOME IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT
YOUR EYE ON JOBS ALSO.

STEVE says IAN, FROM WHERE YOU'RE
SITTING, WHAT APPEARS TO BE
THE MESSAGE?

A caption reads "Ian Scott, former Liberal Attorney General."

IAN says I THINK THE
MESSAGE OF THIS GOVERNMENT AND
THE FEDERAL CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT IS THE
DEFICIT PROBLEM ALONE THAT HAS
TO BE ADDRESSED FIRST BEFORE
YOU CAN TURN TO OTHER THINGS.
IT'S TRUE THAT 104,000 JOBS
HAVE BEEN CREATED, BUT AS YOU
NOTED, THEY'VE BEEN CREATED AT
A COST OF VERY CLOSE TO 700
MILLION DOLLARS.
THAT CANNOT BE REPLICATED AS
LONG AS YOU HAVE THIS DEFICIT
COMMITMENT THAT THE PRESENT
GOVERNMENT HAS VERY LARGE IN
ITS MIND.
THAT'S A CHOICE THEY'VE MADE,
AND I THINK THEY'RE PREPARED
TO LIVE IT OUT FOR THE REST OF
THEIR TERM.

STEVE turns to Sally and says BOB RAE INSISTS OF
COURSE THAT HIS PRIME FOCUS,
DESPITE WHAT TREASURERS HAVE
TO DO AND MINISTERS OF FINANCE
AS WE CALL THEM HAVE TO DO, IS JOBS.
DO YOU NOT GET THAT SENSE?
YOU WATCH QUEENS PARK EVERY NIGHT.

A caption reads "Sally Barnes, Former PC Adviser."

Sally says I THINK THEIR NEW
PRIORITY IS SURVIVAL.
THEY'RE NOW IN THE LAST PHASE
OF THEIR MANDATE, AND NOW
THEY'RE INTERESTING TRYING TO
DO SOME GOOD THINGS.
SURE THEY'RE TRYING TO CREATE
SOME JOBS BUT THEY'RE GOING AT
IT THE WRONG WAY.
THEY'RE "MAKEWORK PROJECTS" AND
IT'S NOT JUST 700 MILLION.
THAT ISN'T MONEY WE'VE GOT.
THAT IS BORROWED MONEY, SO I
MEAN -- BY THE TIME YOU PAY
INTEREST ON THE 700 MILLION
IT'S LIKE JEAN CHRETIEN AND
ALL OF THE PUBLIC WORKS KIND
OF STUFF HE DID IN THE TRUDEAU
GOVERNMENT IN TWO CABINET POSTS.
AND WE'RE STILL PAYING THE
INTEREST ON THE MONEY WE
BORROWED TO CREATE THOSE JOBS.
THE JOBS ARE LONG SINCE
DISAPPEARED, SO I MEAN, IT
REALLY IS TOUGH.

JANET says THE JOBS
DISAPPEARED WITH FREE TRADE.

Sally says THAT'S ANOTHER
SUBJECT.

STEVE says I ASKED THE FINANCE
MINISTER WHETHER OR NOT HE
FELT, THREE YEARS INTO HIS
MANDATE, WHETHER HE HAD
CREDIBILITY LEFT TO DELIVER THE
MESSAGE HE'S TRYING TO DELIVER.
HERE'S SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN
HONEST IN THE PAST TO
CRITICIZE THIS GOVERNMENT WHEN
YOU FELT IT WAS NECESSARY.
IT'S A TOUGH QUESTION TO ASK
HIM, BUT GO AHEAD.
DO THEY HAVE ENOUGH
CREDIBILITY LEFT TO ARGUE FOR
DEFICIT REDUCTION, FOR EXAMPLE?

JANET says I DON'T
THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION.
WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT, THEY
HAVE THREE DIFFERENT MESSAGES
THEY HAVE TO COMMUNICATE.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR
THEM TO COMMUNICATE TO THE
AVERAGE VOTER IN ONTARIO THAT
THEY HAVE BEEN A VERY ACTIVIST
GOVERNMENT.
I DISAGREE WITH SALLY THAT
THEY'RE NOW JUST STARTING TO DO SOME
GOOD THINGS.
THIS GOVERNMENT HAS DONE MORE
IN THE LAST THREE YEARS THAN
THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT EVEN WITH
A CATTLE PROD DID FROM '87 TO '90.

STEVE says IT'S JUST A SELLING
PROBLEM THEN.

JANET says THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS -- THE SECOND
CONSTITUENCY THEY HAVE TO
SPEAK TO IS THEIR OWN PARTY.
THEY HAVE TO CONVINCE THE
PARTY THAT MUCH OF WHAT THEY
DID IS RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT
AND FOUNDED ON DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST
PRINCIPLES AND I DON'T THINK
THEY'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL ON THAT.

IAN says I FIND, JANET,
IN HER FIRST APPEARANCE IN OUR
SHOW ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE.
I MEAN, THE NOTION THAT WHAT
WE'VE BEEN THROUGH OVER THE
LAST THREE YEARS WITH THE RAE
GOVERNMENT HAS SIMPLY NOT
BENEFITED FROM AN APPROPRIATE
SELLING JOB IS MORE THAN I CAN HANDLE.
I THINK GOING INTO THEIR
SURVIVAL MODE, THEY HAVE SOME
BASIC REALITIES THAT THEY HAVE
TO GRAPPLE WITH.
THEY HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER,
FIRST OF ALL, IN THE LAST YEAR OR
TWO, WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO
BE A PASSIVE OR AN ACTIVIST GOVERNMENT.
THEY'VE DECIDED FOR THIS
SESSION THAT THEY'RE GOING TO
BE A PASSIVE GOVERNMENT.

STEVE says HAVE THEY DECIDED
THAT?

JANET says UNLESS YOU
HAVE SOME INSIDE INFORMATION.

IAN says IF YOU LOOK AT THE ANNOUNCEMENT
THIS WEEK, YOU SEE THAT
THERE'S ALMOST NOTHING ON THEIR AGENDA.
FEWER BILLS...

JANET says 20 BILLS.

IAN says WHEN CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL
GOVERNMENTS HISTORICALLY HAD 90 TO 100 BILLS
IN EXACTLY THE SAME PERIOD.
I'M NOT CRITICIZING THE
PASSIVE AGENDA.
THAT'S THE CHOICE THEY'VE MADE.
THE SECOND CHOICE THEY HAVE TO MAKE IS DO THEY
WANT TO SUPPORT BOB RAE AS
THEIR LEADER OR DO THEY NOT?
WE HAVE A WHOLE PARTY THAT
SAYS WE SUPPORT THE NDP BUT WE
DON'T SUPPORT BOB RAE.
THAT'S GOING TO MAKE SURVIVAL,
IF THAT'S THE CHOICE, IN THE
NEXT ELECTION NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE.

STEVE says YOU'VE RAISED THE ISSUE
-- WE ALSO DON'T WANT TO
FOCUS ON THE GOVERNMENT BUT
ALSO THE OPPOSITION AND WHAT
PLANS THEY HAVE IN THE
UPCOMING SESSION.
INTERESTING PIECE OF TAPE I
WANT TO PLAY FROM THE
LEGISLATURE THIS PAST WEEK.
MIKE HARRIS, THE CONSERVATIVE
LEADER, GOING HARD -- NOT
AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT, GOING
HARD AGAINST THE LIBERALS
BECAUSE I GATHER PRIVATELY THE
TORIES BELIEVE THAT IT IS IN
THEIR BEST INTERESTS TO HAMMER
HARDER AGAINST THE LIBERALS
BECAUSE THEY THINK THOSE
DISAFFECTED NDP VOTERS ARE
MORE LIKELY TO GO LIBERAL THAN TORY.
SO I THINK THE ISSUE WAS
FRANCES LANKIN ANNOUNCING THAT
ONTARIO WAS GOING TO RETALIATE
AGAINST QUEBEC WORKERS IN THAT
EASTERN ONTARIO SITUATION.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT MORE LATER.
HERE WAS MIKE HARRIS' RESPONSE
IN THE LEGISLATURE INDICATING THE STRATEGY.

A blue slate reads "Counter Attack." A clip shows Mike Harris speaking.

Mike says I WANT TO THANK THE
MINISTER FOR IGNORING THE
ADVICE OF THE LIBERALS, EVEN
WHEN THEY CARRY ON WITH MORE
TALKS, MORE DISCUSSIONS.
I ALSO REGRET VERY MUCH THAT
THE LEADER OF THE LIBERAL
PARTY WAITED UNTIL TWO WEEKS
AGO, UNTIL AFTER THE
GOVERNMENT SAID THEY WERE
GOING TO DO JUST THAT, BEFORE
SHE WOULD LEND HER SUPPORT.
I GUESS THE POLLS HADN'T
FINALLY COME IN ON WHAT THE
PEOPLE WANTED.

STEVE says WELL IS THIS THE
RIGHT THING TO DO, HAVE MIKE
HARRIS GO HARD AFTER THE
LIBERALS?

Sally says WELL, SURE IT IS, BECAUSE
UNLESS THERE IS A MIRACLE,
AN ABSOLUTE MIRACLE.
AND WE'VE SEEN THEM IN
POLITICS BEFORE.
THE PUBLIC IS VERY FICKLE, BUT
IF BOB RAE CAN PULL OFF THIS
ONE, IT'S A REAL MIRACLE.
BUT UNLESS THAT HAPPENS, THE
NEXT PREMIER OF ONTARIO IN THE
SPRING OF '9 5 IS GOING TO BE
EITHER MIKE HARRIS OR LYNN
McLEOD, AND SO -- SURE.
THEY HAVE TO GO AFTER EACH
OTHER AND TRY TO DISCREDIT
EACH OTHER.
THAT HAS TO BE THE PLANS OF
THE LIBERALS TOO, TO GO AFTER
THE TORIES.
THE PUBLIC ALREADY HAS THE
MESSAGE THEY DON'T WANT THE
NDP, SO THE ONLY QUESTION IS
WHICH OF THE OTHER TWO DO THEY WANT?

JANET says IF YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT MIRACLES HERE, I
THINK BOTH MIKE HARRIS AND
LYNN McLEOD HAVE BEEN SO
LACKING IN LEADERSHIP, IN
QUALITIES OF LEADERSHIP, IN
ANYTHING THAT THE PUBLIC MIGHT VOTE FOR.
IT'S CERTAINLY IN MY VIEW ONE
OF THE REASONS THAT BOB RAE IS
UP IN THE 20-ODD PERCENTILE
BECAUSE THE OPPOSITION PARTIES
HAVE BEEN JUST A DISASTER.

IAN says WHY WON'T HIS
OWN MEMBERS SUPPORT HIM?
IF I WAS AN ENDEPIER, I WOULD SAY
WE'VE ALL GOT TO GET ON BOARD
AND SUPPORT BOB RAE.
THAT'S OUR ONLY CHANCE OF SURVIVAL.
HE'S THE ONLY MINISTER OR
PREMIER WE HAVE WHO HAS ANY
POPULARITY OR NAME RECOGNITION
OUT THERE, BUT WHAT WE HAVE IS
TRADE UNION LEADERS, MEMBERS
OF THE LEGISLATURE SAYING,
"I'M A KEEN ENDEPIER BUT I'M NOT
GOING TO SUPPORT BOB RAE."

STEVE says MIKE HARRIS IS
HELPING HIM BY GOING AFTER THE
LIBERALS INSTEAD OF BOB RAE.
DO THEY HAVE SOME SORT OF
NON-AGGRESSION PACT THERE?

Sally says THERE ARE SO MANY
CONSPIRACIES GOING ON BEHIND
THE SCENES.
THERE IS THE LANKIN FORCES
TRYING TO GET HER READY FOR
THE LEADERSHIP, AND HEAVEN
KNOWS...
THE CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN GOING ON
FOR SO LONG.
HE SENT SOMETHING TO EVERY...

STEVE says YOU MENTIONED
FRANCES LANKIN.
STAY PUT.
WE HAVE MORE DISCUSSION TO COME.

To the camera, Steve says COMING RIGHT UP, MORE TOUGH TALK ON
TRADE.

The "4th Reading" logo appears.

A woman with shoulder-length wavy black hair and large silver earrings speaks. A caption reads "Frances Lankin, Economic and Trade Minister."

Frances says -- BARRIERS THAT DISCRIMINATE
AGAINST ONTARIO CONSTRUCTION FIRMS AND ONTARIO WORKERS.
THERE'S BEEN NO INCENTIVE TO TAKE THEM DOWN, AND
NO DISINCENTIVE TO KEEP THEM UP
THE ACTIONS WE TAKE TODAY TO LEVEL
THE PLAYING FIELD WILL
CERTAINLY COST JOBS IN QUEBEC,
AND WE HOPE THEY'LL SEE IT'S A SERIOUS
ISSUE AND THEY WILL TAKE THE PROPER STEPS.

STEVE says AS HAS BEEN
SUGGESTED, FRANCES LANKIN HAS
RATCHETED UP THE CONSTRUCTION
TRADE WAR WITH QUEBEC ANOTHER NOTCH.
THE GOVERNMENT IS PUTTING
RESTRICTIONS ON QUEBEC
CONSTRUCTION WORKERS EMPLOYED IN ONTARIO AND QUEBEC.
QUEBEC CONTRACTORS AND SUBCONTRACTORS WILL BE EXCLUDED NOW FROM
GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO PROJECTS.
AND I'M WONDERING, IN THE
MIDST OF THE FEDERAL ELECTION
CAMPAIGN, WHEN EVERYBODY IS
ALREADY ANTSY ENOUGH ABOUT
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN QUEBEC,
WHETHER -- THERE WAS UNIVERSAL
PRAISE IN THE LEGISLATURE, BUT
YOU GUYS AREN'T IN THE LEGISLATURE.
IS THIS A GOOD MOVE?
WHAT DO YOU THINK, JANET?

JANET says I THINK THE
MORE IMPORTANT CONTEXT ISN'T
THE FEDERAL ELECTION.
THE MORE IMPORTANT CONTEXT IS
THE JOBS ISSUE.
AND I THINK THE GOVERNMENT HAS
TAKEN A LOT OF TIME TO DISCUSS
THIS WITH QUEBEC AND NOW IT'S
TIME TO BARGAIN WITH MORE
FORCE AT THE TABLE AND I THINK
THAT'S JUST WHAT THE
GOVERNMENT HAS DONE.

Sally says BUT WHY THE TIMING?
IT'S TAKEN MONTHS.
NEW BRUNSWICK TOOK THE SAME
ACTION MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO.
WHY NOW?
WHY COULDN'T WE WAIT UNTIL AFTER
THIS FEDERAL ELECTION?
YOU'VE GOT TO AGREE IT'S A
POPULAR THING WITH THE PUBLIC.
IT'S ONE OF THE FEW GOOD THINGS THE
NDP HAS DONE.
AND ONE OF YOUR FEDERAL
CANDIDATES WILL BENEFIT FROM IT.
BUT THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WILL REALLY
BENEFIT, UNFORTUNATELY, ARE THE
BLOC CANDIDATES IN QUEBEC.
THAT'S REALLY TOO BAD.
SO I JUST THINK IT WAS THE
RIGHT THING TO DO, THE
TIMING WAS BAD.

IAN says IT ISN'T THE
PROBLEM HERE. NO ONE REALLY
DISAGREES WITH WHAT FRANCES
LANKIN DID, BUT TIT-FOR-TAT IS
NOT AN ECONOMIC POLICY.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT FOR SEVERAL
YEARS, THREE YEARS, PERHAPS
LONGER, IN FACT, WE'VE BEEN
LOSING OUR TRADITIONAL
ADVANTAGE OVER QUEBEC IN TERMS
OF ATTRACTING NEW BUSINESSES
AND NEW JOBS.
THE NEW GOVERNMENT, FOR
REASONS OF SOCIAL POLICY LIKE

- I'M NOT CRITICAL "PER SE."
LIKE THE LABOUR RELATIONS ACT
AMENDMENTS AND SO ON, AND THE
TAX REVENUES, HAS BEEN MAKING
IT LESS ATTRACTIVE TO CREATE
JOBS IN ONTARIO.

STEVE looks at Janet and says SHE'S SHAKING HER
HEAD.

Janet shakes her head and protests indistinctly.

Janet says -- NOT REAL INVESTMENT.

IAN says OF COURSE.
THAT'S REALITY.
IF YOU REALLY THINK THAT
HAVING LOST SEVERAL HUNDRED
THOUSAND JOBS IN ONTARIO WE
CAN CREATE MORE BY KEEPING A
COUPLE OF HUNDRED QUEBEC
CONSTRUCTION WORKERS OUT OF
THE PROVINCE, I SAY YOU'VE GOT
A MARVELOUS POLITICAL PLOY
AVAILABLE BUT IT'S NOT AN
ECONOMIC POLICY.
I WOULD HAVE DONE IT, BUT I
WOULD HAVE DONE IT WITH AN
ECONOMIC POLICY THAT MADE IT
MORE ATTRACTIVE TO LOCATE A
BUSINESS IN ONTARIO THAN TO
LOCATE IT IN QUEBEC.
AT THE PRESENT TIME, IT IS
MORE ATTRACTIVE TO LOCATE IT
IN QUEBEC THAN IN ONTARIO.

JANET says THAT'S
COMPLETELY OFF TRACK.
THIS IS CONSTRUCTION WORKERS
WHO HAVE BUSINESSES OPERATING
AND LOCATED IN MONTREAL.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
INVESTMENT OR DEINVESTMENT OR TAXES.
IT'S GOT TO DO WITH A POLICY
OF BUYING SERVICES IN QUEBEC.

IAN says IF THE PEOPLE OF
ONTARIO HAD JOB OPPORTUNITIES,
WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO GET INTO
THIS KIND OF SLANGING MATCH.
I UNDERSTAND IT'S VERY
ATTRACTIVE POLITICS AND I
PROBABLY WOULD HAVE DONE IT,
BUT I THINK WHAT YOU NEED IS
AN ECONOMIC POLICY THAT SAYS
TO BUSINESSES THAT ARE COMING
TO CANADA OR MOVING AROUND IN
CANADA THAT IT'S MORE ATTRACTIVE TO...

JANET says THIS
WASN'T...

IAN says TO SET UP YOUR
BUSINESS IN ONTARIO THAN IT IS
IN QUEBEC.

STEVE says ON THIS
ISSUE THOUGH IT WOULDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL.

JANET says IT WOULDN'T
MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.
THIS IS A QUEBEC GOVERNMENT POLICY.

Steve says IT'S AN EASTERN ONTARIO THING MORE THAN ANYTHING...

IAN says IT CEASES TO
GRATE, IF ALL OUR CONSTRUCTION
PEOPLE IN ONTARIO ARE AT WORK.
I'M NOT SAYING THEY CAN ALL BE
PUT TO WORK, BUT WHAT I'M
SAYING IS IF YOU HAVE AN
ECONOMIC POLICY THAT MAKES IT
ATTRACTIVE TO UNDERTAKE
CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS TO BUILD
FACTORIES AND SO ON IN
ONTARIO, RATHER THAN IN
QUEBEC, YOU WILL BEGIN TO
SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.

STEVE says THE LAST 30
SECONDS TO YOU ON THIS, AND
THIS IS ARE YOU REALLY AFRAID THE B.Q.
WILL DO BETTER IN THE NEXT
FEDERAL ELECTION BECAUSE OF
THIS INCIDENT?

Sally says DID YOU SEE THE HEADLINES?
OF COURSE, THE WAY THE QUEBEC
MEDIA PLAYED THIS.
IT'S QUEBEC THAT'S SO DARNED
PROTECTIONIST, BROUGHT IT UPON
THEMSELVES, BUT NONETHELESS,
ONCE AGAIN, HERE IT IS -- THIS
RETALIATION. YOU KNOW,
WHAT'S THE SENSE OF BEING INTO
THIS FEDERATION, WHATEVER, AND
SURE, THEY'RE GOING TO BENEFIT.

STEVE says THAT'S THE LAST WORD
ON THIS. AND NOW WE GO ON TO ANOTHER FEATURE.
SIT TIGHT.
THIS WASN'T THE LAST MOVE FOR MNISTERS AND MPPs.
THE OPENING OF THE LEGISLATURE
BROUGHT A FRESH GROUP OF PAGES.
GRADE SEVEN AND EIGHT STUDENTS WHOSE JOB IT IS
TO RUN ERRANDS IN THE CHAMBER.
THEY HAVE LOTS OF RULES AND PROCEDURES
TO PERFECT, AND WE CAUGHT THEM
LEARNING THE ROPES ON THIS
WEEK'S POST CARD FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

(music plays)
A white postcard is overprinted "Postcards from the Leg."

A clip shows the floor of Parliament in session.

The Speaker says I WOULD APPRECIATE ALL
MEMBERS JOINING ME IN WELCOME
THE 14th GROUP OF PAGES TO
SERVE IN THE THIRD SESSION OF
THE 35th PARLIAMENT.

A group of serious-looking young children stand in the wing of the chamber.

Gillian of Windsor-Riverside speaks.

She says MY BROTHER WAS A PAGE AND HE REALLY, REALLY LIKED IT. HE THOUGHT IT WAS A LOT OF FUN. SO I JUST THOUGHT I'D APPLY.

Another little girl speaks. A caption reads "Tamara, Saint George- Saint David."

Tamara says HI. WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HOW
TO HEAR MOTIONS AND PETITIONS AND REPORTS.

A male trainer in his thirties wearing suspenders and a tie over a white shirt speaks to the kids. A caption reads "Arthur Birenbaum, Page Coordinator."

Arthur says YOU BOW EVERY SINGLE TIME
YOU HAVE ANY DEALING WITH THE SPEAKER.
ANY TIME YOU ARE DEALING WITH
THE SPEAKER, YOU BOW.
EVAN, SHOW US A BOW.
(Evan complies)
YOU BOW.
YOU BOW.
YOU BOW.

Tamara says I WAS AFRAID THAT I WOULD
FORGET EVERYONE'S NAMES AND
WHERE THEY SAT.

Arthur says WHEN YOU GET A MESSAGE FOR
SOMEBODY, IF YOU'RE NOT SURE
WHERE THAT PERSON SITS,
PRETEND YOU KNOW, AND THEN GO
FIND OUT AFTER.
WE WANT YOU TO INSPIRE
CONFIDENCE, BECAUSE HOW MANY
OF YOU REALLY DO KNOW EXACTLY
WHAT YOU'RE DOING EVERY MINUTE
OF THE DAY THERE?

Derrick of Rainy River says WHEN YOU WALK PAST OFFICIAL PEOPLE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DUCK AND BOW YOUR HEAD. SO, DUCK, DUCK, DUCK (Shown ducking)

Zeyd of Scarborough-Ellesmere says FOR SOMEONE SITTING IN THE
BACK OF THE ROOM, IF YOU'RE
LATE GETTING UP, THEY WAVE
THEIR HANDS. IT'S FUN.
I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE
PEOPLE YELLING AT YOU, TELLING
YOU THINGS.

A member gestures with hands spread wide and says NO, I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU.

Another answers him and says THAT IS THE KIND OF TALK-DOWN
DICTATION THAT IS REALLY
INFURIATING PEOPLE.

Zeyd continues THEY'RE REALLY NICE TO US.

Arthur says EVERYBODY IS WORKING.
EVERYBODY IS WORKING.
EVERYBODY IS WORKING.

The Speaker says PLEASE WELCOME OUR PAGES.
(Applause)

With his guests, STEVE says WE ALL PRACTICE
OUR DUCKING HERE?

Sally and Janet say NO BOWING!

Steve says WE'LL BOW OUR WAY OUT OF HERE AND
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US THIS WEEK.
WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT TIME.

To the camera, Steve says JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME FOR
ANOTHER EDITION OF "FOURTH READING."
GOOD NIGHT, EVERYBODY.

(Theme music plays)

Against Parliament Building, The End Credits roll.

Host, Steve Paikin.

Show Producer, Susanna Kelley.

Story Editor, Richard Martyn.

Production Assistant, Tatiana Kober.

Production Manager, Esther Fairbairn.

Opening Sequence, Allan Myers.

Set Designer, Jennifer Carroll.

Director, Allan Myers.

Executive Producer, Christa Singer.

A production of TVOntario. 1993.

Watch: Fourth Reading 3 Program 1