Transcript: Inclusionary Zoning Policy and other top stories | Nov 19, 2021

Nam Kiwanuka stands beside a screen. On the screen is The Agenda logo, a lowercase letter a and a period and text that reads, the week in review. Nam has long, curly, brown hair and glasses. She wears a black shirt under a navy blazer and black pants. She holds a piece of paper.

Nam says, "THE AGENDA" THIS WEEK
LEARNED HOW TECHNOLOGY COULD
HELP PROTECT THE GREAT LAKES.
EXAMINE THE STATE OF
EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES FOR
ONTARIO KIDS, HEARD WHY DENTISTS
ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WHO'S
GETTING TREATMENT.
AND CONSIDERED THE TROUBLE WITH
GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAINS.
"THE AGENDA'S" WEEK IN REVIEW
BEGINS WITH WHETHER INCLUSIONARY
ZONING COULD HELP GET AFFORDABLE
HOUSING BUILT.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Steve Paikin says, I WANT TO START I
GUESS WITH JUST OF A FACT FILE
TO BRING OUR VIEWERS AND
LISTENERS UP TO SCRATCH ON WHAT
I.Z, INCLUSIONARY ZONING,
ACTUALLY IS.

Steve has short, curly, brown hair. He wears a grey blazer and black tie. Behind him is part of The Agenda logo. Text reads, will inclusionary zoning make homes affordable?

Steve says, FOR EXAMPLE:

A graphic with an image of Toronto city hall is displayed beside text that reads, Toronto’s inclusionary zoning plan. A bullet point reads, 5-10% of condo units affordable along “Protected Major Transit Station Areas.”

Steve says, AS
PASSED BY TORONTO CITY COUNCIL
IT MEANS THAT 5 TO 10% OF CONDO
UNITS BUILT AROUND DESIGNATED
PROTECTED MAJOR TRANSIT STATION
AREAS, THOSE UNITS WOULD NEED TO
BE AFFORDABLE.
AND THE RANGE HAS TO DO WITH
WHERE IT IS IN THE CITY WITH THE
HIGHEST PERCENTAGE BEING
DOWNTOWN.
SO THE LOWEST PERCENTAGE,
SCARBOROUGH CENTRE.
THAT WOULD INCREASE TO 8 TO
22% OF UNITS BY THE YEAR
2030.

A second bullet point reads, increases to 8-22% by 2030.

Steve says, WHAT DOES AFFORDABLE MEAN?
WELL, AFFORDABLE IN THIS CASE
MEANS TARGETING HOUSEHOLDS
MAKING BETWEEN $32,000 AND
$91,000 A YEAR, AND OF COARSE DEPENDING
ON THE SIZE OF THE UNIT, IT
COULD COST $800 FOR A STUDIO
MONTHLY TO $1,850 A MONTH FOR A
THREE BEDROOM.

A third bullet point reads, affordable for household income of $32,486 to $91,611.

Steve says, AND AFFORDABILITY MUST BE
MAINTAINED FOR 99 YEARS.

A fourth bullet point reads, 99 years of affordability. Text at the bottom of the graphic reads, Toronto.ca (Nov. 9, 2021)

Steve says, THAT'S THE 411 ON I.Z.
AND NOW WE WANT TO GET SOME
FEEDBACK ON WHAT YOU FOLKS THINK.

In a video call with Steve are four other people. There is a bald man, a woman with long black hair, a woman with long blond hair, and a man with receding dark hair. Text reads, the right plan?

Steve says, LAURIE WE'RE NOT THE FIRST CITY TO
TRY THIS.
THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER CITIES
TO TRY IT
BUT WE'RE THE FIRST IN
THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO TO TRY
IT IF, IN FACT, IT HAPPENS NEXT
YEAR.

Laurie, the blond woman, nods.

Steve asks, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE
EFFORT TORONTO'S PUT FORWARD
HERE?

Laurie says, WELL FIRST BEFORE I ANSWER YOUR
QUESTION I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT
I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE
BUILDING AND LAND DEVELOPMENT
INDUSTRY FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS
AND WE ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT
CREATION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING
AND INCLUSIONARY ZONING.

Text reads, Laurie Payne, Osmington Gerofsky Development Corp.

Laurie says, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WHAT WE
DON'T SUPPORT IS THE TORONTO
PROGRAM.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS
UNLIKE ANY OTHER CITY ACROSS
NORTH AMERICA, TORONTO HAS DONE
A PROGRAM WHERE THE FULL COSTS
OF THOSE INCLUSIONARY ZONING
UNITS IS BORNE BY THE NEW HOME
BUYER.
THERE IS NO FINANCIAL OFFSET OR
INCENTIVES FOR THE DEVELOPER TO
PROVIDE THAT UNIT FROM ANY OF
THE LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

In the video call with Steve, text below Laurie reads, Toronto, ON.

Steve says, SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF
THIS WERE A SOCIAL GOOD THAT
GOVERNMENTS THOUGHT WAS
IMPORTANT TO ACHIEVE, THEY
SHOULD BE PUTTING SOME MONEY
WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS?

Laurie nods.

She says, ABSOLUTELY.
THIS IS A SOCIETAL
RESPONSIBILITY.
WE AS ONTARIANS ALL HAVE A ROLE
TO PLAY IN CREATING AFFORDABLE
HOUSING.

Steve says, OKAY.
THAT'S LAURIE'S VIEW,
GARIMA DO YOU WANT TO
COME IN HERE AND
TELL ME
WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT?

Garima, the woman with long black hair, says, SURE, ABSOLUTELY.
I FIND LAURIE'S COMMENTS REALLY
INTERESTING.

Text reads, Garima Talwar Kapoor, Maytree.

Garima says, IN MY VIEW, THE DEBATE ABOUT
INCLUSIONARY ZONING IS A
DEBATE ABOUT WHO BELONGS IN THE
CITY OF TORONTO.

Text reads, the week in review, @theagenda, tvo.org.

Garima says, AND SO FAR, YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO
THINK THAT TORONTO IS THIS
WELCOMING PLACE WHERE PEOPLE
FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE CAN LIVE,
WORK AND PLAY.
BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE
PAST SEVERAL DECADES IS THAT
PEOPLE WITH MODEST INCOMES ARE
BEING PUSHED OUT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, IN RESPONSE TO
WHAT LAURIE IS SAYING THAT, YOU
KNOW, THE COST OF NEW,
AFFORDABLE UNITS BEING SPREAD
OUT TO OTHER NEW HOME BUYERS WHO
WON'T BE LIVING IN THESE
AFFORDABLE UNITS, I THINK IS A
BIT OF, IS SHINING A LIGHT
AWAY FROM THE REALITY OF HOW
COSTS ARE BEING DISTRIBUTED AND
WHAT THE ANALYSIS BEHIND
INCLUSIONARY ZONING HAS HELD
CONSTANT IN TERMS OF WHICH
VARIABLES WILL CHANGE.

Text reads, Garima Talwar Kapoor, Maytree.

Garima says, AND SO, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPER
PROFITS AREN'T ONE OF THOSE
VARIABLES THAT WILL CHANGE AS A
RESULT OF INCLUSIONARY ZONING.
AND MARKET ANALYSIS THAT THE
CITY HAS UNDERTAKEN HAS HELD
THAT.

Steve says, OKAY.

Garima says, THIS IS A DECISION POINT

Steve says, HOLD THERE GARIMA.

Garima says, YEAH, SURE.

Steve says, GOT YOU THERE.
WE'LL DIVE INTO SOME OF THOSE
ITEMS THAT YOU BROUGHT UP AS THE
DISCUSSION CONTINUES.
MARK, HOW ABOUT YOUR TAKE ON
THIS PARTICULAR I.Z EFFORT BY
THE CITY OF TORONTO?

Mark, the bald man, says, WE SPOKE AT COUNCIL AND WE'RE
GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE
MODERATE WAY THAT THE CITY IS
TRYING TO APPROACH IT.

Text reads, Mark Richardson, Rich Analytics.

Mark says, INCLUSIONARY ZONING IS NOT
VIAGRA, IT'S MORE LIKE INSULIN.
YOU NEED TO MODERATE THE DOSE
AND MAKE SURE YOU'RE DOING A
BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS.
CHECK YOUR BLOOD SUGAR, EAT
RIGHT.
THE CITY HAS TRIED TO BRING A
PROGRAM HERE WHERE THEY'RE NOT
REALLY PUTTING ANY SKIN IN THE
GAME THEMSELVES.
AND THAT MAKES IT HARD TO CREATE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS AT THE
SPEED AND SCALE WE NEED TO IN
THE CITY OF TORONTO.

In the video call beside Steve, text below Mark reads, Toronto, ON.

Mark says, THEY HAVE OTHER PROGRAMS LIKE
HOUSING NOW WHERE THEY'RE
GENERATING MORE UNITS FASTER
BECAUSE THE CITY HAS SKIN IN THE
GAME.

Steve says, MARK, I THINK I GET
YOUR METAPHOR EVEN THOUGH WE'RE
A FAMILY PROGRAM AND I THINK YOU
COULD HAVE CHOSEN A DIFFERENT
ONE BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT
STORY.

Mark smiles.

Steve says, MOVING RIGHT ALONG HERE.
OKAY, JOSH, I PURPOSELY LEFT YOU FOR
THE END BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR
WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAD TO SAY
ABOUT THE CITY'S EFFORTS.

In the video call beside Steve, text below Josh, the man with receding dark hair, reads, Toronto, ON.

Steve asks, WERE YOU OBVIOUSLY INVOLVED AS A
CITY COUNCILLOR IN THE DEBATE.
HOW DO YOU LINEUP ON THIS?

Josh says, WELL, THE DEVELOPMENT
INDUSTRY HAS PROVEN THAT THEY
WILL PRICE WHAT THE MARKET CAN
BEAR.
AND MANY CITIES THROUGHOUT NORTH
AMERICA HAVE INCLUSIONARY ZONING
POLICY THAT IS HAVE PERCENTILES
THAT EXCEED TORONTO'S.

Text reads, Josh Matlow, Toronto City Councillor. The text transitions to read, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda.

Josh says, SO THIS IS, IF ANYTHING, A
CAUTIOUS START AS FAR AS WHAT
WE'RE DOING.
TORONTO'S BEEN ASKING THE
PROVINCE FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW
TO ALLOW US THE TOOL TO USE
INCLUSIONARY ZONING.
AND THE REASON WHY IS BECAUSE I
ALONG WITH MY COLLEAGUES HERE,
WITHOUT EXAGGERATION, EVERY
SINGLE WEEK, FROM RESIDENTS WHO
CANNOT AFFORD TO LIVE IN THE
CITY, ARE BEING PRICED OUT, HAVE
GIVEN UP ON THEIR DREAMS OF
HOMEOWNERSHIP AND STRUGGLE EVEN
TO MAKE RENT.

Garima nods.

Josh says, WHAT YOUR BACKGROUNDER DIDN'T
SAY EARLIER IS THAT ALONG WITH
THE CONDOS THERE IS ALSO GOING
TO BE A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF
PURPOSEFUL RENTALS
THAT WILL ALSO BE PART OF OUR
INCLUSIONARY ZONE POLICY.
BUT INCLUSIONARY ZONING IS ONE
TOOL IN A MUCH BIGGER TOOL BOX
THAT WE NEED TO USE
TO ADDRESS THE HOUSING
PRICE CRISIS WE'RE EXPERIENCING.

Text reads, Josh Matlow, Toronto City Councillor.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

A person says, YOU KNOW, IF WE THINK ABOUT THE REGION
IT IS HOME TO 107 MILLION PEOPLE
ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES MEGAREGION.
THAT’S 8 STATES AND THE PROVINCES
OF ONTAIRO AND QUEBEC.

Text reads, Mark Fisher, Council of the Great Lakes Region. In a video call, Mark has short brown hair. Other text reads, making the great lakes smarter. Below, text reads, a new vision.

Mark says, IT IS A SIGNIFICANT REGIONAL
ECONOMY THAT REPRESENTS
ROUGHLY 30% OF CANADIAN-AMERICAN
ECONOMIC ACTIVITY AND EMPLOYMENT
OR 52 MILLION JOBS.
BUT AT THE HEART OF THIS REGION
AS WE KNOW ARE THE FIVE
GREAT LAKES.
21% OF THE WORLDS SURFACE
FRESH WATER,
84% OF NORTH AMERICA'S SURFACE
FRESH WATER.
IN FACT IT'S THE LARGEST FRESH
WATER SYSTEM IN THE WORLD
SUPPORTING EVERY ASPECT OF OUR
NATURAL ENVIRONMENT AND OUR WAY
OF LIFE.
BUT IT'S A FINITE PRESSURE WATER
SYSTEM.

In the video call beside Steve, text below Mark reads, Ottawa, ON. Steve wears a blue suit and yellow and blue striped tie.

Mark says, ONLY 1% OF THE WATERS OF THE
GREAT LAKES ARE RENEWED ON AN
ANNUAL BASIS, BY PRECIPITATION,
RUNOFF, GROUND WATER AND, AS
KELLY MENTIONED, IT'S UNDER
TREMENDOUS STRESS FROM RAPIDLY
CHANGING CLIMATE TO INVASIVE
SPECIES, CHEMICAL, PLASTIC,
NUTRIENT
POLLUTION TO INCREASED URBAN SPRAWL.

Text reads, Mark Fisher, Council of the Great Lakes Region.

Mark says, WHAT'S TROUBLING IS THAT THE
ENVIRONMENTAL STRESSORS
WE FACE ARE GROWING AT A RATE
THAT IS OUTPACING OUR ABILITY
TO UNDERSTAND THEM FAST
ENOUGH.

In the video call with Mark and Steve are three others, a man with short brown hair, a woman with long black hair and a woman with short grey hair. The woman with long black hair nods.

Mark says, THEY ARE LIMITING OUR ABILITY
SUSTAINABLY USE THIS RESOURCE AND TO
PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT FOR
FUTURE GENERATIONS.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE THINK THAT THE
COMMON STRATEGY FOR GREAT LAKES,
FOR THE FIRST TIME SETS OUT A
BINATIONAL ROAD MAP THAT WE
THINK IS NECESSARY FOR SOLVING
THESE ISSUES ACROSS THE GREAT
LAKES IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW,
REALLY DEVELOP THE INFORMATION
SYSTEMS THAT WILL IMPROVE THE
WAY PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT AND
RESPOND TO ENVIRONMENTAL CHANGE.

Text reads, Mark Fisher, @MarkPFlsher.

Mark says, YOU KNOW, HOW WE INFORM CRITICAL
POLICY AND MANAGEMENT DECISIONS
BUT ALSO HOW DO WE ACCELERATE
SCIENCE AND INNOVATION AS IT
RELATES TO THE GREAT LAKES.

Steve says, WELL LET'S FIND A LITTLE
MORE OUT ABOUT THIS ROAD MAP.
AARON, SMART TECHNOLOGY IN THIS
CASE, SPECIFICALLY MEANS WHAT?

In the video call with Steve, text below Aaron, the man with short brown hair, reads, Windsor, ON.

Aaron says, WELL, IT MEANS A LOT OF
THINGS.
THERE'S CERTAINLY BEEN A REAL
INCREASE IN THE TECHNOLOGY THAT
WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US.

Text reads, Aaron Fisk, University of Windsor.

Aaron says, AND BECAUSE OF CELLULAR
NETWORKS, BECAUSE OF SATELLITES
WE ALSO CAN NOW MAKE THAT REAL-TIME.
AND THERE'S BEEN A REAL PUSH TO
BE ABLE TO PUT EQUIPMENT OUT IN
THE WATER, LIKE BUOYS THAT FLOAT,
AND HAVE SENSORS ON THEM OR, YOU
KNOW, AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES LIKE
GLIDERS THAT MOVE THROUGH THE
GREAT LAKES AND THE OCEANS FOR
THAT MATTER.

Text reads, the week in review, @theagenda, tvo.org.

Aaron says, AND SO ALL OF THIS EQUIPMENT IS
OUT THERE.
COLLECTING DATA CONTINUOUSLY.
WHICH IS A REALLY IMPORTANT
POINT.
YOU KNOW, IN THE PAST WHEN YOU
WANTED TO STUDY SOMETHING
LIKE A (indiscernible) YOU
HAD TO GO OUT ON A BOAT AND
COLLECT WATER.
SO YOU, YOUR SAMPLING IS BOTH
(indiscernible) LIMITED
AND SPATIALLY LIMITED.
NOW WITH ALL THESE NEW TECHNOLOGIES
THAT SIT IN THE WATER AND
COLLECT THE DATA YOU GET
CONTINUOUSLY DATA SETS.

Text reads, Aaron Fisk, University of Windsor.

Aaron says, BUT IT ALSO, AS KELLY WAS ALLUDING TO, IT
UPLOADS IT DIRECTLY SO CAN
YOU LOOK AT THAT DATA AT ANYTIME.
AND SO THAT HELPS US MONITOR
THINGS, GET CONTINUOUS DATA.
WE CAN ACTUALLY REACT TO STUFF.
AND SO THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE
BIG CHANGE HAS BEEN
TECHNOLOGICALLY.
SO THIS VISION OF HAVING A SMART
GREAT LAKES, WE NOW HAVE THE
INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE INSTRUMENTS
TO DO THOSE KIND
OF THINGS.

Steve says, AARON, FOLLOW UP ON
THAT IF YOU WOULD.
GIVE US A REAL-LIFE EXAMPLE
WHERE BY, YOU GOT SOME INFORMATION,
IT WAS UPLOADED TO YOUR SMART
PHONE OR COMPUTER OR WHATEVER,
YOU FOUND OUT SOMETHING OUT THAT
WAS REALLY HELPFUL TO YOU, AND
THEREFORE YOU DID SOMETHING
FOR EXAMPLE?

Aaron says, SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LARGE PROJECT
RIGHT NOW THAT'S BEING FUNDED BY THE UNION
WATER SUPPLY HERE IN LEAMINGTON.
THEY SUPPLY ALL THE WATER IN
SOUTHERN ESSEX COUNTY AND THE
GREENHOUSE INDUSTRY IN SOUTHERN
ESSEX COUNTY WHICH IS THE
LARGEST IN NORTH AMERICA AND ONE
OF THE LARGEST IN THE WORLD.

Text reads, Aaron Fisk, University of Windsor.

Aaron says, SO WHEN THEY'RE TAKING WATER IN I
DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE HOW COMPLICATED
TREATING WATER AND PROVIDING IT
TO THE PUBLIC IS AND IMPORTANT IT
IS.
IF THERE IS A SUDDEN SHIFT IN
TEMPERATURES OR EVEN P.H. OR
TURBIDITY OR IF THERE’S
A HARMFUL ALGO BLOOM.
THEY NEED TO KNOW THAT AS SOON
AS THEY CAN BECAUSE THEY NEED
TO MAKE CHANGES TO HOW
THEY’RE DELIVERING THE WATER, HOW
THEY'RE TREATING THE WATER, HOW
MUCH WATER THEY'RE HOLDING BACK.
SO WE HAVE (indiscernible) FUNDING FROM THE
CANADIAN GOVERNMENT THAT HAS
ALLOWED US TO PUT BUOYS OUT
THERE.
AND WE WORK DIRECTLY WITH THE WATER
MANAGEMENT AND THEY LOOK AT THE
DATA ALL THE TIME.
SO WE HAVE BUOYS OUT THERE.
THEY CAN GO ONLINE ON THEIR
CELLULAR PHONE OR THROUGH A COMPUTER.

Text reads, Aaron Fisk, University of Windsor.

Aaron says, TO KEEP AN EYE ON WHAT THE WATER
TEMPERATURES ARE.
AND WE HAVE BUOYS FURTHER AWAY
THAT GIVE AN IDEA IF THE WATER
IS COMING IN FROM THE CENTRAL BASE
AND THAT MIGHT BE
LOW IN OXYGEN.
THEY KNOW
IT'S COMING THEY CAN MAKE
CHANGES.
SO THERE IS AN ON THE GROUND
AFFECTING PEOPLE'S LIVES EXAMPLE
OF HOW THAT TECHNOLOGY
CAN BE SO POWERFUL.

Steve says, GOTCHA.
I READ MARK AND
KELLY'S REPORT.
AND I NOTE RIGHT HIGH UP IN THE REPORT IS
AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT FOR
THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF
YEARS, INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WHO
HAVE LIVED IN AROUND THE GREAT
LAKES HAVE BEEN EXCELLENT
STEWARDS OF THEM.

Text reads, engaging Indigenous communities.

Steve says, AND, BARBARA, I GUESS THAT’S WHERE YOU
COME INTO THIS CONVERSATION.
WHAT ROLE DO YOU SEE AS
INDIGENOUS PEOPLE PLAYING IN ALL
OF THE EFFORTS THAT ARE UNDERWAY
HERE?

In the video call with Steve, text below Barbara, the woman with grey hair, reads, Keene, ON.

Barbara says, WELL, STEVE, AS YOU SAID, THE
NISHNAWBE AND THE HAUDENOSAUNEE CONFEDERACIES
AND OTHER INDIGENOUS NATIONS
HAVE BEEN LIVING IN RELATIONSHIP
WITH THE GREAT LAKES FOR,
SINCE THE TIME OF LAKES WERE
FORMED, RIGHT?

Text reads, Barbara Moktthewenkwe Wall, Trent University.

Barbara says, AND LONG BEFORE COLONIAL AND
POLITICAL BORDERS WERE DRAWN.
SO THE INDIGENOUS KNOWLEDGE OR
TRADITIONAL ECOLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE
THAT OUR COMMUNITIES HOLD IS
VERY DEEP AND VERY BROAD.
AND BASED ON TENS OF
THOUSANDS, WELL, 10,000 YEARS
OF OBSERVATION AND LIVED
EXPERIENCE WITH THE BEINGS OF
THE GREAT LAKES.

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda.

Barbara says, SO WHEN YOU START TO BRING IN
THIS INDIGENOUS ECOLOGICAL
KNOWLEDGE, YOU START TO GET A
BIGGER PICTURE.
AND A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING.
AND KIND OF DIFFERENT DATA THAN
SMART TECHNOLOGY CAN ACCESS.

The woman with the long black hair nods.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Nam says, YOU'RE IN MANITOBA.
HOW ARE EXTRACURRICULARS BEING
HANDLED THERE?

Nam wears a dark blazer and black and white polka dot shirt. Text reads, are extracurriculars really back? Below, other text reads, where are the sports and clubs? In a video call with Nam is a man with white hair, a woman with blond hair and a bald man. The man with white hair nods.

He says, WE'RE BASICALLY FULLY
OPERATIONAL.

Text reads, Dean Kriellaars, University of Manitoba.

Dean says, AND IN OUR SYSTEM HERE, THERE
ARE, OF COURSE, CONSTRAINTS TO
SOME ACTIVITIES.
BUT WE HAD A FULL OUTDOOR, INDOOR
COMPLEMENT WHICH I AM SURE IS
HAPPENING IN SOME SCHOOLS IN
ONTARIO AS WELL.
BUT MOST PROGRAMS BECAUSE WE
HAVE STAFF IN MANITOBA LIKE
GEORGE, THOSE PEOPLE CAN THEN DO
THE HOMEWORK TO DO THE NECESSARY
THINKING ON HOW TO HAVE ADEQUATE
SAFETY FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND
THAT THEN PERMITS THE PHYSICAL
ACTIVITIES TO OCCUR.

The man and woman in the call with Dean both nod.

Dean says, MOST PRINCIPLES, MAYBE
SUPERINTENDENTS, OFTEN, CREATE A
NOTION OF SURPLUS SAFETY WHICH,
SURPLUS SAFETY, IS A TERRIBLE
NOTION.

The blond woman smiles. The bald man laughs, covers his face and shakes his head.

Dean says, AND, AGAIN, I CAN SEE GEORGE AND
MICHELE SHAKING THEIR HEAD.

Michelle, the blond woman, shakes her head.

Dean says, SURPLUS SAFETY HARMS CHILDREN
BECAUSE IT MAY STOP SOME
IMMEDIATE SMALL THINGS FROM
HAPPENING BUT IT PREVENTS ALL OF
THE BENEFITS DOWNSTREAM.

Michelle and George, the bald man, nod.

Dean says, SO ADEQUATE SAFETY IN THIS MIND
SET IS WHAT WE NEED.
NOT SURPLUS SAFETY.
NOT SAFE AS POSSIBLE.
SAFE AS NECESSARY.

Nam says, GEORGE, I SAW YOU
NODDING YOUR HEAD THERE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME
SCHOOLS, I KNOW FROM MY KIDS'
SCHOOLS THEY DON'T HAVE ANY
EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES.

In the video call with Nam, text below George reads, Richmond Hill, ON.

Nam says, FIRST OF ALL, I WANTED TO KNOW
WHY YOU WERE NODDING AND WHY ARE
THESE ACTIVITIES NOT BEING
PRIORITIZED BY THE TDSB?

George says, SURE.
SO THE NODDING WAS DUE TO
FRUSTRATION.
BUT IT'S ALSO A CHALLENGE.
WE HAVE TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES
FOR OUR STUDENTS AND FOR
CHILDREN AS DR. KRALARZ HAS
INDICATED.
YOU KNOW, THE RESEARCH
THERE, IT GOES
ON AND ON.

Text reads, George Kourtis, Toronto District School Board.

George says, BUT WE HAVE TO DO THAT
IN A SAFE AND CARING MANNER.
AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE DONE,
AND WE HAVE GIVEN OPPORTUNITIES.
WHAT WE NEED TO ALSO FOCUS ON IS
LETTING PARENT-GUARDIANS,
LETTING ADMINISTRATORS, LETTING
SENIOR STAFF KNOW THAT, HEY,
WE'VE ABIDED BY THE MINISTRY OF
HEALTH.

Text reads, the week in review, @theagenda, tvo.org.

George says, WE'VE ABIDED BY TORONTO PUBLIC
HEALTH.
WE'VE ABIDED BY THE SPORTING
ORGANIZATIONS.
HERE IS HOW WE'RE MOVING
FORWARD.
AND HOW WE'RE MOVING FORWARD
ISN'T NECESSARILY HOW IT WAS.
THERE ARE SOME GREAT TAKE AWAYS
AND WE CAN TAKE FROM THE PAST 19
MONTHS.
AND WE'VE LEARNED FROM THAT.

Dean and Michelle nod.

George says, BUT WE'VE GOT TO LET PARENTS AND
GUARDIANS KNOW THAT IN ORDER FOR
THEIR CHILDREN TO REACH THEIR
ACADEMIC POTENTIAL, THEY NEED TO
BE ACTIVE.
EVERY PARENT WANTS THEIR CHILD
TO BE SAFE, TO BE HEALTHY.

Text reads, George Kourtis, Toronto District School Board.

George says, BUT IN ORDER TO DO SO THEY NEED
TO HAVE THAT PHYSICAL LITERACY.
NEED TO HAVE THOSE PHYSICAL
OPPORTUNITIES TO BE ACTIVE BOTH
DURING THE DAY AT SCHOOL AND
AFTERWARDS.

Nam says, YOU USE THE WORD
"FRUSTRATION" BECAUSE WHEN THE
SCHOOL YEAR STARTED THE PROVINCE
SAID THAT EXTRACURRICULAR
ACTIVITIES COULD RETURN.
BUT THEN TORONTO PUBLIC HEALTH
SAID NOT SO FAST.
AND THEN AROUND, I THINK,
SEPTEMBER 20TH THEY SAID IT
THAT IT WAS FINE.
IS THAT THE FRUSTRATION THAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

George says, ABSOLUTELY.
AND THEN THIS FRUSTRATION STEMS
FROM THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION
WILL PUT OUT QUITE A BIT OF
INFORMATION BUT WILL SAY, YOU
KNOW, YOU HAVE TO, FINAL
DECISIONS RESIDE WITH YOUR LOCAL
PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCIES AND
WORKING WITH OUR LOCAL PUBLIC
HEALTH AGENCIES LIKE TPH,
INCREDIBLE STAFF.

Text reads, George Kourtis, Toronto District School Board.

George says, BUT WE ALSO HAVE 600 SCHOOLS.
AND TO IMPLEMENT THINGS WE CAN'T
HAVE DECISIONS MADE THE DAY
BEFORE SCHOOL STARTS.
WE CAN'T HAVE DECISIONS MADE ON
SEPTEMBER 20TH AND EXPECT A
TURN AROUND OF SEPTEMBER 21ST.
SO BEING ALIGNED HAS BEEN ONE OF
THE DIFFICULTIES.

Dean and Michelle nod.

George says, HAVING SCHOOLS LIKE THE INDEPENDENT
SCHOOLS IN THE CITY OF TORONTO
WHO DO NOT HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE
LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH AND HAVE TO
ABIDE BY THE PROVINCIAL, THEN IT
HAS PARENT-GUARDIANS SAYING HOW
COME THIS SCHOOL IS ALLOWED TO
OFFER THINGS BUT THE TORONTO
DISTRICT SCHOOL BOARD IS NOT?

Dean and Michelle smile and nod.

George says, AND EXPLAINING THAT TO THE
PARENT-GUARDIANS OF OUR 250,000
STUDENTS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A
TOUGH TASK.

Nam says, WOULD YOU SAY THEN THAT
TORONTO PUBLIC HEALTH HAS
SURPLUS PUBLIC SAFETY?

George says, I THINK THEY'RE THE
SPECIALISTS IN THEIR FIELD.

Text reads, George Kourtis, Toronto Disctrict School Board.

George says, WE'RE THE SPECIALISTS IN
EDUCATION.
AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE
FURTHER DISCUSSIONS TOGETHER.

Nam says, MICHELLE, I SAW YOU
NODDING AS WELL.

Michele says, YEAH, I ECHO BOTH.
AND I THINK ANOTHER PART OF THE
PUZZLE THAT SOMETIMES GETS
MISSED IS THAT WE HAVE UNIONS AS
WELL.

Text reads, Michelle Lange, Thames Valley Regional Athletics.

Michelle says, SO YOU HAVE UNIONS, TEACHERS
UNIONS THAT COME INTO PLAY.
SO WE'VE GOT BOARDS OF
EDUCATION.
WE'VE GOT THE MINISTRY OF
EDUCATION.
WE'VE GOT OUR PUBLIC HEALTH
UNITS.
AND THEN WE HAVE OUR UNIONS.
AND AT TIMES, AND STILL
HAPPENING, THOSE FOUR PEOPLE
ARE NOT SPEAKING TO ONE ANOTHER.

Dean and George nod.

Michelle says, SO THIS LEADS TO WHERE GEORGE
AND I SIT, WE ARE THE
COMMUNICATORS TO OUR
COMMUNITIES, TO OUR ATHLETIC
DIRECTORS, TO OUR COACHES.

Dean nods.

Michelle says, SO WE'RE TAKING ALL OF THIS
INFORMATION IN, ENSURING THAT WE
HAVE SAFE ENVIRONMENTS FOR NOT
ONLY OUR STUDENTS BUT OUR
COACHES AND OUR OFFICIALS AS
WELL.

Text reads, Michelle Lange, Thames Valley Regional Athletics.

Michelle says, SO WE'RE TRYING TO MITIGATE ALL
OF THOSE RISKS WHILE TAKING INTO
ACCOUNT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT
PEOPLE THAT COME INTO THE TABLE
THAT DON'T SEEM TO BE TALKING TO
ONE ANOTHER AND ARE ALIGNED WITH
ONE ANOTHER.
SO I FELT LIKE IT HAS BEEN A
BALANCING ACT FROM THE
BEGINNING.

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda.

Michelle says, AND I'M VERY, VERY THANKFUL FOR
THE OTHER ONTARIO ATHLETIC
COORDINATORS THAT WE ARE ON A
GROUP TOGETHER WHERE WE ARE
TRYING TO NAVIGATE AND STAY
AHEAD OF THE CURVE TO BE ABLE TO
COMMUNICATE THE MOST ACCURATE
INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE AT THIS
TIME.

In the video call with Nam, text below Michelle reads, London, ON.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Steve says, DR. KHALID, YOU
PRESUMABLY HAD TO INCUR
ADDITIONAL COSTS WHEN THE
PANDEMIC HIT.

Steve wears a blue suit and yellow and blue striped tie. Text reads, who’s not getting dental care in Toronto? Below, other text reads, untreated decay.

Steve asks, CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THAT
PANDEMIC AFFECTED YOUR PRACTICE?

In a video call with Steve is a woman with short brown hair, a bald man and a bald man with a beard.

Dr. Khalid, The bald man, says, IN SO MANY WAYS TO BE HONEST.
NUMBER ONE, IF YOU WANT TO TALK
ABOUT ADDITIONAL COSTS, YES,
WE'VE SEALED OUR LABORATORIES,
OUR ROOMS, AIR FILTERS, INCREASED
COST IN PPE.

Text reads, Kal Khaled, Ontario Alliance of Dentists.

Dr. Khalid says, THE AVERAGE DENTAL PRACTICE MAY HAVE
INCURRED COSTS of $20 to $50,000
LET’S SAY
IN THE INITIAL CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
AND THEN THE RUNNING COSTS.
SO OUR COSTS HAVE INCREASED AND
DR. HEIDEGER’S RIGHT, THE ONTARIO
DENTAL ASSOCIATION DOES A GOOD
ANALYSIS.
BY THE WAY,
WE ACTUALLY SUBMIT, UNANIMOUSLY
I SUPPOSE,
OUR ACTUAL FINANCIAL
STATEMENTS TO THE ONTARIO
DENTAL ASSOCIATION SO THEY'RE
NOT MAKING UP THESE NUMBERS
THEY ACTUALLY LOOK AT OUR ACTUAL
FINANCIALS, THEY LOOK AT OUR PROFIT AND SO ON
SO THEIR ANALYSIS IS QUITE
RIGOROUS.

Text reads, Kal Khaled, Ontario Alliance of Dentists.

Dr. Khalid says, I MUST SAY THERE ARE A COUPLE OF
THINGS THAT I WANT THE LISTENERS
TO TAKE NOTE OF.
NUMBER ONE, DENTISTS DO HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO THE PUBLIC.
AND WE TAKE THIS RESPONSIBILITY VERY
SERIOUSLY.
SOMEONE TOLD ME THE OTHER DAY,
HE SAID TO ME,
WHY DON'T YOU GUYS GO ON STRIKE?
JUST LIKE, IN A SENSE,
THE OPTOMETRISTS ARE, I
WON'T SAY THEY'RE ON STRIKE BUT
THEY'RE LIMITING THEIR ACCESS TO
CARE.
PERHAPS RIGHTLY.

In the video call beside Steve, text below Kal reads, Mississauga, ON.

Dr. Khalid says, WE CAN'T.
DURING THE THREE-MONTH PERIOD
LAST YEAR IN THOSE THREE MONTHS,
APRIL, MAY, JUNE, WHEN WE WERE
SOMEWHAT CLOSED MY OFFICE WAS
ONE OF THE FEW OFFICES OPEN.
WE SAW SIGNIFICANT DENTAL
PROBLEMS.

Text reads, Kal Khaled, Ontario Alliance of Dentists.

Dr. Khalid says, I MEAN, PEOPLE WHO COULDN'T EAT, PEOPLE
WHO COULDN'T SLEEP.
WE DIAGNOSED TWO ORAL CANCERS,
ABSCESSES.
SO WE TAKE OUR JOB VERY SERIOUSLY.
DENTISTS DO HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO THE PUBLIC AND
THEY ARE WELL AWARE OF THAT.
BUT WE JUST FEEL THAT IT MAY BE
BETTER FOR THE PUBLIC IN A
COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND IN
MANY WAYS IF THE REMUNERATION
WAS INCREASED FINALLY AFTER
DECADES.

Text reads, the week in review, @theagenda, tvo.org.

Dr. Khalid says, SOMEONE TOLD ME THAT THE
MINISTRY OF HEALTH WILL SPEND $5
TO $10 MILLION ON TREATING
DENTAL EMERGENCIES IN HOSPITAL
EMERGENCY ROOMS.
AND I THOUGHT THAT'S
INTERESTING.
THAT'S A BIG NUMBER.
IF THEY REALIZED THAT, YOU KNOW,
PATIENTS WHO AREN'T BEING SEEN
AT THEIR PRIVATE DENTIST GO TO
HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOMS
WHERE THEY RECEIVE SOME CARE, IF
THAT FUNDING WAS REMOVED FROM
THE MINISTRY BUDGET TO THE
HOSPITALS AND ADDED INTO THIS
PROGRAM, IT WOULD PROBABLY GET A
MUCH BIGGER RETURN, FOR EXAMPLE.

Steve says, RIGHT.
WELL, FIRST OF ALL WE APPRECIATE
YOUR CONSCIENTIOUSNESS STAYING
OPEN IN THAT TIME AND I'M SURE
MANY OF YOUR PATIENTS WERE
EXTREMELY GRATEFUL.

Kal nods.

Steve says, I DO WANT TO KNOW HOW, HOW
DID YOU ASSUME A $50,000 UNANTICIPATED
COST TO IMPROVE YOUR WORKING
CIRCUMSTANCES AS IS IT RELATED
TO THE PANDEMIC?
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BIG NUT TO
HAVE TO CRACK.

Dr. Khalid says, IN MY PARTICULAR OFFICE IT
WAS $25,000.
THERE WAS GOVERNMENT GRANT
ASSISTANCE AS YOU MAY RECALL FOR
SMALL BUSINESSES.

Text reads, Kal Khaled, Ontario Alliance of Dentists.

Steve says, YOU WERE ELIGIBLE FOR
THAT?

Dr. Khalid says, YES.
MOST OF IT IS LOAN, I BELIEVE
IT'S PAID BACK OVER THE NEXT
COUPLE OF YEARS.
FIRST OF ALL.
THE COST AS THE OTHERS HAVE
NOTED OF PPE, A BOX OF GLOVES,
FOR EXAMPLE, USED TO COST US $25
FOR ONE OF THOSE BOXES.
IT HIT A COST OF $72 DURING THE
HIGH POINT OF THE PANDEMIC.
AND WE NEEDED MORE OF THEM NOT
LESS OF THEM.
PRICES HAVE COME DOWN THOUGH
WITH THE WORLD KIND OF
IMPROVING.
BUT THERE IS ADDED COSTS.
THERE IS ADDED COSTS.
AND, AGAIN, DENTISTS AS ALL THE
LISTENERS KNOW, DO HAVE ABOVE
AVERAGE INCOME GENERALLY
SPEAKING SO NO ONE'S COMPLAINING
FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW.
WE JUST FEEL THAT 50% OF THE FEE
IS CUTTING IT PRETTY TIGHT.
AND AS DR. QUIÑONEZ SAID, IF IT'S
70, 75%, I THINK MORE AND MORE DENTISTS
WILL ACCEPT IT.
BY THE WAY,
AS DR. HEIDINGER SAID, MAYBE 50 TO 70% OF
DENTISTS DO ACCEPT PUBLIC MONIES FOR
TREATING PATIENTS BUT A FAR
FEWER NUMBER OF DENTAL
SPECIALISTS WILL.
IT'S PROBABLY CLOSER TO 5 TO 10%
OF SPECIALISTS WILL ACCEPT
THESE PROGRAMS.
SO THAT ALSO EMITS CARE.

Text reads, Kal Khaled, Ontario Alliance of Dentists.

Steve says, SO IF I UNDERSTAND,
DENTISTS DON'T MIND TAKING A
HAIRCUT ON THE FEES THEY JUST
DON'T WANT TO TAKE A HUGE CARE
CUT ON THE FEES.

Kal nods and laughs.

Dr. Khalid says, YES, UNLIKE MY HAIR HERE.

Steve chuckles.

Steve says, GOTCHA, SORRY, THAT WAS NOT MEANT AS
AN INSULT TO YOU I ASSURE YOU.

Kal chuckles.

Steve says, DR. HEIDEGER, I WANT YOU
IF YOU WOULD, TO COMMENT
BECAUSE WE ASKED THE
MINISTRY OF CHILDREN, COMMUNITY
AND SOCIAL SERVICES TO
PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM.

In the video call with Steve, text below Dr. Heideger, the woman with short brown hair, reads, Kitchener, ON.

Steve says, WE HOPED THEY WOULD GIVE US
SOMEBODY WHO COULD COME ON
AND DISCUSS THIS
ISSUE WITH YOU AND
THEY DECLINED THE INVITATION
WHICH IS YOUR RIGHT TO DO.
THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THE
MINISTRY ALSO SAID THE MINISTRY
DOESN'T TRACK WHICH DENTISTS
PROVIDE WHICH SERVICES AND TO
WHOM.
AND THEY DID SEND THIS STATEMENT
OVER.
THEY SAID: WE CONTINUE TO ROLL
OUT A MORE RESPONSIVE, EFFICIENT
AND PERSON-CENTRED SOCIAL
ASSISTANCE SYSTEM THAT WILL HELP
INDIVIDUALS AND THE ECONOMY
RECOVER FROM THE COVID-19
PANDEMIC.

Beside an image of a dentist’s chair the statement is displayed below text that reads, statement from the ministry, Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services, via email (Nov. 12, 2021)

Steve asks, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

Dr. Heideger says, I AM NOT REALLY SURE WHAT TO
MAKE OF THAT.

Steve says, DOES IT SOUND LIKE
BUREAUCRACY GOBBLE-DI-GOOP TO
YOU?

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda.

Dr. Heideger says, YEAH, I THINK SO.
I’M NOT SURE IF THEY WERE WANTING TO
PROVE THAT THEY ARE LOOKING
AFTER THE SITUATION WITHOUT
KNOWING TOO MUCH ABOUT WHAT'S
GOING ON ABOUT IT.

Text reads, Christina Heidinger, Ontario Dental Association.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Steve says, WHICH RAISES THE
QUESTION, BESSMA OF WHETHER WE ARE
TOO RELIANT ON CHINA.
WHAT SAY YOU?

Steve wears a grey suit and dark blue and white polka dot tie. Text reads, solving Canada’s supply chain crisis. Below, other text reads, too dependent on China? In a video call with Steve is a woman with long brown hair, a man with dark hair and a balding man.

Bessma, the woman with long brown hair, says, ABSOLUTELY TOO RELIANT.
BUT SO IS THE ENTIRE WORLD.
THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.
THE CHALLENGE IS EVERYBODY IS
TOO RELIANT ON CHINA.

Text reads, Bessma Momani, University of Waterloo.

Bessma says, AND AGAIN, YOU CAN, I THINK, REPLACE
CHINA WITH A DIFFERENT COUNTRY
AT A DIFFERENT TIME.
INTERDEPENDENCY JUST BY VIRTUE
OF THE CONCEPT IS
VULNERABILITY.
WE ARE VULNERABLE BY BEING
INTERDEPENDENT.
THINGS WORK LIKE CLOCKWORK WHEN
THERE AREN'T PANDEMICS AND THERE
AREN’T GEOPOLITICAL
CHALLENGES AND CLIMATE CHANGE.
BUT ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE
HEIGHTENED AT THE MOMENT.
AND SO WE HAVEN'T EVEN GONE INTO
THE GEOPOLITICAL CHALLENGES THAT
EXIST WITH CHINA TODAY.
AND I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT
CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS VERY
DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS
PREVIOUSLY.
WE HAVE A LEADER TODAY,
PRESIDENT XI THAT'S VERY
NATIONALISTIC.
HE IS ALSO TALKING ABOUT DUAL
CIRCULATION THEORY WHICH IS
BEING MORE INDEPENDENT
DOMESTICALLY.

The two men in the call with Bessma nod.

Bessma says, FOR THEM TO BE LESS INTERDEPENDENT
ON US, CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT?
AND SO I THINK THIS IS ALL JUST
TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE ARGUMENT
THAT WE DO NEED TO THINK ABOUT
THESE THINGS MORE CRITICALLY.
I THINK WE HAD TOO MUCH FAITH IN
GLOBALIZATION AND
INTERDEPENDENCE TO OUR OWN
FAULTS.

Text reads, Bessma Momani, @b_momani.

Bessma says, AND NOW IT'S TIME TO SORT OF
RETHINK IT.
ADD TO THE FACT THAT CLIMATE
CHANGE IS HERE TO STAY,
UNFORTUNATELY.
SO WE NEED TO RETHINK THESE
SUPPLY CHAINS NO MATTER WHAT.

Steve says, DAN, SHOULD WE, CAN
WE, BREAK OUR DEPENDENCE ON
CHINA?

In the video call with Steve, text below Dan, the man with dark hair, reads, Toronto, ON.

Dan says, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THAT
STATISTICALLY WE HAVE SHOWN, I
ACTUALLY WANT TO BE SENSITIVE TO
GLOBALIZATION TO A DEGREE.

Text reads, Dan Breznitz, University of Toronto.

Dan says, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS
FOR MOST OF HUMANITY.
BUT THE REALITY IS WE DIDN'T
HAVE GLOBALIZATION.
WE HAD A VERY SKEWED
GLOBALIZATION WHERE THE WHOLE
WORLD BECAME MORE AND MORE
DEPENDENT ON ONE REALLY TINY
REGION OF THE WORLD, IF YOU
THINK GLOBALLY.
WE DID NOT HAVE GLOBAL
PRODUCTION OR GLOBAL SUPPLY
CHAIN.
WE HAD CHINESE DOMINANT SUPPLY
CHAINS AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
AND SO WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING
ABOUT IT.

Text reads, the week in review, @theagenda, tvo.org.

Dan says, AND EVEN IF CHINA WAS THE MOST
FRIENDLIEST, DEMOCRATIC,
HUMAN-LOVING NATION THE WORLD
HAS EVER SEEN, THIS RESUMES IN
TIME OF PANDEMIC, IN TIME OF
CLIMATE CRISES IS JUST NOT
SUSTAINABLE.

Bessma nods.

Dan says, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE
CREATE MUCH MORE RESILIENT,
GLOBAL AND REGIONAL SUPPLY
CHAINS.
AND CANADA HAS TO START TO HAVE
THIS DEBATE.

Text reads, Dan Breznitz, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy.

Dan says, BECAUSE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE
ALREADY DOING THAT.

Steve says, IT SOUNDS, THOUGH,
PERRIN BEATTY THAT IF WE TRY TO
PURSUE THOSE OTHER OPTIONS
THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE MORE
EXPENSIVE OR AT LEAST HARD TO
DO.
SO WHAT'S THE INCENTIVE FOR
DOING THEM?

In the video call with Steve, text below Perrin, the balding man, reads, Ottawa, ON.

Perrin says, SUPPLY.

Text reads, more expensive for everyone?

Perrin says, SO YOU DON'T RUN OUT OF THE
MATERIALS THAT YOU NEED.
THAT YOU ARE ABLE,
PARTICULARLY IN TIMES OF CRISIS
TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT YOUR
SECURITY AND PROVIDE THE SERVICES
THAT ARE ESSENTIAL.

Text reads, Perrin Beatty, Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

Perrin says, NOW, IT'S IMPORTANT, STEVE,
FOR US TO UNDERSTAND HERE
THAT WHEN WE USE THE
TERM "GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN" THAT
THE ISSUE, THE PROBLEM IS
GLOBAL.
IT'S NOT SUSCEPTIBLE TO BEING
RESOLVED HERE ENTIRELY BY CANADA
ACTING ON ITS
OWN AND COUNTRIES AROUND THE
WORLD ARE WRESTLING WITH THE
SAME ISSUE AND BUSINESSES AROUND
THE WORLD ARE WRESTLING WITH
THIS ISSUE.
SO WE NEED TO WORK IN CONJUNCTION
WITH OTHERS TO DO THIS, WE ALSO
NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT ELEMENTS OF
THE SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES ARE
SUSCEPTIBLE TO BEING RESOLVED
HERE IN CANADA.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE ISSUE OF
TRUCK DRIVERS.
EVEN IF YOU CAN BRING SOMETHING FROM CHINA,
LAND IT AT THE PORT OF VANCOUVER.
EVEN IF THE PORT OF VANCOUVER IS
OPEN AND NOT CUT OFF FROM THE
REST OF THE COUNTRY, YOU STILL
NEED TRUCK DRIVERS TO BE
ABLE TO GET THE
PRODUCT TO WHERE IT'S GOING.

Text reads, Perrin Beatty, Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

Perrin says, THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT OTHERS
WON'T RESOLVE FOR US.
WE HAVE TO RESOLVE THAT HERE IN
CANADA.
WE NEED A VERY FOCUSED EFFORT IN
TERMS OF WHAT WE CAN DO HERE AND
WE NEED TO COLLABORATE WITH
OTHER PARTNERS TO RESOLVE THE
INTERNATIONAL ASPECTS.
AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THERE
IS NO QUESTION THAT THERE WILL
BE ELEMENTS OF THIS THAT WILL BE
MORE EXPENSIVE.
BUT IF THE ALTERNATIVE IS THAT
EVERYTHING SHUTS DOWN BECAUSE WE
WANT GET OUR HANDS ON THE
SUPPLIES WE NEED THAT WILL BE
THE MOST EXPENSIVE OF ALL.

Steve says, BESSMA, DOWN TO OUR
LAST MINUTE: CAN WE DO THIS?

Bessma says, WE CAN.
IT TAKE AS LITTLE BIT OF CULTURE
CHANGE, TOO.
I THINK WE NEED TO START
THINKING ABOUT BUYING LOCAL.

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda.

Bessma says, THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT
IS IT THAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW,
CONSUME BASED ON WHAT WE CAN
GROW IN THE EARTH.
MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T BE HAVING
ORANGES IN THE MONTH OF
NOVEMBER.
MAYBE IT'S JUST UNREALISTIC AND
WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT
SQUASH AND PUMPKIN.
I THINK THERE ARE LOTS OF
CHANGES THAT CAN BE DONE.

The Agenda logo rotates.

Nam says, THAT'S JUST SOME OF WHAT
WE COVERED THIS WEEK ON "THE
AGENDA."
FOR MORE, INCLUDING THE FULL
CONVERSATIONS, YOU CAN VISIT OUR
WEBSITE TVO.ORG.
OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AT
YOUTUBE.COM/THEAGENDA.
OR OUR TWITTER FEED:
TWITTER.COM/THEAGENDA.

On the screen beside Nam, text reads, Connect with us. Below are the logos for YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Text reads, AgendaConnect@tvo.org.

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