Transcript: Canada's Labour Shortage and other Agenda highlights | Sep 24, 2021

Summer host of The Agenda, Nam Kiwanuka, stands beside a screen. She has black glasses and wears a black shirt and blue blazer. She holds a piece of paper. The screen has The Agenda logo, the letter a and a period, and text that reads, the week in review.

Nam says, "THE AGENDA" THIS WEEK
DEBRIEFED THE ELECTION, AS WELL
AS LOOKED FOR SOME ADVICE ON
MAKING MINORITY PARLIAMENTS
WORK, TALKED TO FORMER MINISTER
OF JUSTICE JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD
ABOUT HER NEW BOOK AND HEARD WHY
CANADA'S FOREIGN POLICY NEEDS
UPDATING.
THE AGENDA'S WEEK IN REVIEW
BEGINS, EXAMINING THE PROBLEM OF LABOUR
SHORTAGES IN THE PROVINCE.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Steve Paikin says, LINDSEY, HAVE YOU
TRIED, FOR EXAMPLE, I DON'T KNOW
WHAT, LIKE OFFERING A FEW BUCKS
MORE AN HOUR, RAISING THE
POTENTIAL WAGES THEY CAN EARN IF
THEY WERE TO COME BACK?

Lindsey, a woman with long blond hair wearing a black t-shirt shares a screen with Steve, who wears a blue dress shirt and tie. In the bottom left is The Agenda logo. Text reads, why is Ontario short on workers?, the employer’s dilemma.

Lindsey says, OH, YEAH.

Steve asks, YOU HAVE DONE THAT?

Lindsey says, ABSOLUTELY, YEAH, WE, WE RAISED THE RAISES.
OUR OWNERSHIP GROUP HAS AGREED
TO LIKE, MATCH THE TIP OUT THAT WE NORMALLY
DO ANYWAYS.

Text reads, Lindsey Osborne, Ridge Rock brewing company.

Lindsey says, UM, WE'RE OUT IN THE COUNTRY
KIND OF, SO YOU
CAN'T TAKE PUBLIC TRANSIT HERE.
SO WE’VE EVEN TOYED WITH THE IDEA OF UM,
PAYING FOR PEOPLE'S UBER’S BACK
AND FORTH JUST TO GET THEM OUT HERE,
LIKE, LITERALLY ANYTHING.
WE'VE BASICALLY EXHAUSTED
EVERY REGULAR AVENUE
SO ...

Steve asks, REBECCA, HOW ABOUT
YOU?
HAVE YOU TRIED WAGE INCREASES?

Rebecca has long light brown hair. She wears a green shirt and headphones.

She says, WE HAVE, YEAH.
WE'VE INCREASED THE HOURLY, UM, LIKE, BASE
PAY FOR OUR STAFF…

Text reads, Rebecca Sutherland, hair artisans.

Rebecca says, …WE'VE ADDED
PAID SICK DAYS THAT WEREN'T
SOMETHING THAT WE USED TO DO
BEFORE THAT WERE TYPICAL IN OUR
INDUSTRY, AND UM, I, I GUESS THOSE ARE
THE TWO MAIN THINGS THAT WE'VE
DONE TO TRY AND ENCOURAGE PEOPLE
AND MAKE US LOOK MORE DESIRABLE.
BUT WE KNOW THAT ALL THE SALONS
IN THE CITY ARE LOOKING FOR
STAFF.
SO IT'S ALSO, YOUR, THERE'S A LOT OF
PLACES LOOKING.

Steve says, AS I WELCOME YOU TWO
TO THE PROGRAM, WHAT STANDS OUT,
KAYLIE, AMONG WHAT YOU JUST HEARD,
THAT’S OBVIOUSLY A, A LOOK ON THE GROUND
YOU SEE THE BIGGER MACRO
PICTURE.
WHAT CAN YOU ADD TO THAT?

Steve shares the screen with two people. To the left is a woman with long brown hair and glasses. She wears a burgundy shirt. To the right is a bald man with glasses who wears a suit jacket, white shirt and tie. In the bottom left is The Agenda logo. Text reads, why is Ontario short on workers?, economists respond.

Kaylie, the woman with long brown hair, says, ONE THING THAT REALLY STANDS OUT TO
ME RIGHT AWAY IS HOW MUCH THEY
TALKED ABOUT THE UNCERTAINTY OF
WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE HAVE TRANSITIONED
TO NEW INDUSTRIES OR WHAT
THEY'RE DOING INSTEAD.

Text reads, Kaylie Tiessen, unifor.

Kaylie says, UM, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE
FOUND A WAY TO CREATE EMPLOYMENT
AND INCOME FOR THEMSELVES IN
PLACES WHERE THEY WEREN'T
LOOKING FOR IT BEFORE OR DIDN'T
KNOW THAT THEY COULD FIND IT, UH,
AND THAT'S ONE PIECE OF THIS
PUZZLE.
ONE THING THAT I WAS REALLY
CURIOUS ABOUT AND I'D LOVE TO
INTERROGATE A LITTLE BIT MORE,
IS WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JOB
QUALITY, WHAT ARE THE THINGS
THAT ARE ON OFFER?
UH, THERE WAS A ARTICLE RECENTLY
FROM THE CBC AND IT WAS ON PIZZERIA LIBRETTO,
THAT JUST TALKED DIRECTLY ABOUT IMPROVING
EMPLOYMENT QUALITY FOR THEIR
EMPLOYERS, OR, EMPLOYEES AND ACTUALLY BEING
ABLE TO FIND THE WORKERS THAT THEY
NEEDED.
SO IN AN INDUSTRY LIKE
HOSPITALITY WITH SUCH A HIGH
VACANCY RATE, THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD WORK
PRETTY WELL AND SHOWS
ANECDOTALLY AT LEAST THAT IT HAS SO FAR.

Steve says, INTERESTING.
CRAIG, HOW ABOUT YOU?
WHAT STOOD OUT?

Craig, the man in the suit jacket, says, WELL I THINK IT REALLY
SUMMARIZE’S HOW, HOW
HARD THE HIT INDUSTRIES ARE
BEING AFFECTED…

Text reads, Craig Alexander, Deloitte Canada.

Craig says, …UM AND THEY REALLY HIGHLIGHTS
HOW, HOW THE
HEALTH RISKS AND THE, THE RISK THAT
JOBS ARE, ARE MORE PRECARIOUS, IN
OTHER WORDS, YOU KNOW, WORRIES THAT, YOU
KNOW, THE HEALTH RISK IS STILL
OUT THERE, THE EMPLOYEES ARE
PUTTING THEMSELVES AT RISK, BUT
AT THE SAME TIME THERE, THERE ARE ALSO
CONCERNS THAT, THAT THE JOB WILL GO
AWAY AGAIN IF, IF THERE’S NEW
GOVERNMENT RESTRICTIONS.

Text reads, the week in review, @TheAgenda, tvo.org.

Craig says, THE ONE THING I, I FLAGGED THOUGH, IS
I THINK THAT
MANY PEOPLE APPRECIATE THE
CHALLENGES THAT HAIR SALONS
AND RESTAURANTS AND OTHER HARD
HIT INDUSTRIES, YOU KNOW, HOTELS,
ET CETERA, ARE, ARE, ARE EXPERIENCING
LABOUR SHORTAGES.
BUT I WOULD ACTUALLY ARGUE THAT
THOSE LABOUR SHORTAGES ARE FAR
MORE BROAD.
THAT IN POINT OF FACT ACROSS THE, THE
ENTIRE ECONOMY, MOST, MANY SECTORS, IF
NOT MOST SECTORS, ARE
EXPERIENCING SOME LABOUR
SHORTAGES AT THE MOMENT FOR A
VARIETY OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

Text reads, Craig Alexander, Deloitte Canada.

Steve says, KAYLIE, DO YOU WANT
TO FOLLOW UP ON YOUR FIRST
ANSWER?
YOU THINK THERE MAY BE SOMETHING
DEEPER, MORE SYSTEMIC AT PLAY
HERE?

Kaylie says, YES.

Kaylie laughs.

She says, UM, I GUESS,
WHAT I'VE BEEN WATCHING FOR IS
WONDERING HOW TRANSITIONS WILL
HAPPEN UH…

Text reads, Kaylie Tiessen, Unifor.

Kaylie says, …AND, AND WHAT WILL TRANSITION
OVER TIME IN THE ECONOMY AS
CONSUMER DEMAND HAS CHANGED,
WE'RE LOOKING MORE TO PEOPLE UH,
BUYING ONLINE VERSUS GOING TO
STORES AND BUY, UH, ORDERING FOOD ONLINE
VERSUS GOING INTO A RESTAURANT,
HOW WILL THAT UH, SETTLE OUT IN, IN THE
LONG TERM IS SOMETHING WE DON'T
KNOW, YET, BUT WE WILL KNOW
EVENTUALLY.
UH, AND THEN IN TERMS OF JUST
THINKING THROUGH BROADER LABOUR
SHORTAGES, I THINK THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT WAS HAPPENING
LONG BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HIT.
THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT A NEW
TOPIC.

Steve says, NOW LET'S GO BACK
PRE-PANDEMIC.
JANUARY 2020, THE UNEMPLOYMENT
RATE IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
WAS 5.2%.
IN AUGUST 2021, LAST MONTH, IT
WAS 7.6%.
5.2 VERSUS 7.6.
HOW UNUSUAL IS IT IN AN ECONOMY
TO HAVE A HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
AND A WORKER SHORTAGE AT THE
SAME TIME?

Craig says, IT, IT, THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE SHOWS
YOU THAT THERE IS SLACK IN THE
LABOUR MARKET, THAT THERE'S
PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR JOBS
BUT CAN'T FIND THEM…

Text reads, Craig Alexander, Deloitte Canada.

Craig says, …AND AT THE
SAME TIME, WE HAVE STATISTICS
FROM, FROM STATS CAN THAT SHOWS THAT IN, IN
JUNE, UH, THERE WAS 815,000 VACANT
JOBS.

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda

Craig says, SO, WE, WE, WE HAVE PEOPLE WITHOUT JOBS
AND WE HAVE JOBS WITHOUT PEOPLE,
AND THAT TELLS YOU THAT THERE'S, THERE’S A
MISMATCH HAPPENING IN THE LABOUR
MARKET.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Steve says, JOHN, WHY WAS THIS
NOT A GIANT WASTE OF TIME?

Steve shares the screen with a man with a beard, a man wearing a black suit jacket, a man wearing a head set, and a woman with glasses. Steve wears a yellow shirt and red tie. In the bottom left is The Agenda logo. Text reads, election 2021: liberal minority, take two, same as it ever was?

John, the man wearing the headset says, WELL, 'CAUSE THE LAST WORD IN
YOUR QUESTION, STEVE, WHICH IS
TIME.
UM, THE ELECTION RESULT, UH, WHICH IS THE
HEALTHY LIBERAL MINORITY,
CONTINUES THE TRUDEAU
GOVERNMENT'S TIME IN OFFICE.

Text reads, John Duffy, former liberal strategist.

John says, UM, AND,
THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.
UM, THE PARTY WAS GOING TO HAVE TO
FACE THE ELECTORATE SOONER OR
LATER AND SEEK TO EXTEND ITS
MANDATE.
UM, AND I THINK, UM, IT, IT,
THE RESULT IS POSITIVE.
UM, IN EVALUATING WHETHER IT WAS A
WASTE OF TIME FROM THE LIBERAL
PERSPECTIVE, YOU'D WANT TO ASK
YOURSELF: COMPARED TO WHAT
SCENARIO?
UM, THE LIBERALS WERE VERY NERVOUS
ABOUT WAITING A LOT LONGER
UM, BECAUSE THEY HAD ROLLED OUT
PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING THEY HAD
TO ROLL OUT IN THE SPRING 2021
BUDGET.
UM, SO IF THEY HAD CHOSEN TO WAIT
LONGER, SURE, THE PANDEMIC WOULD
HAVE EASED OFF, SOME OF THE
IRRITATION LEVEL WOULD HAVE COME
DOWN.
BUT WHAT WOULD THE LIBERALS HAVE
HAD TO OFFER?
MORE NEW SPENDING?

John shakes his head.

He says, NOT MORE MONEY TO THROW AROUND.
UM, SOME DRAMATIC NEW POLICY (indiscernible)?
HARD TO DO WITHOUT MORE
NEW SPENDING.
SO, A LOT OF LIBERALS WITH LONG
MEMORIES ARE HAUNTED
BY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LATE
'70S WHEN PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU’S
FATHER, PIERRE TRUDEAU,
HESITATED TO CALL AN ELECTION.
EVERYONE IN 1978 SAID, YOU SHOULD WAIT BY
1979.
BY 1979, EVERYBODY SAID, OH GOD,
YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IT BACK IN
‘78.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE A STRONG
FORWARD OFFER, YOU'RE REALLY
BACKING YOURSELF INTO A HECK OF
A STRATEGIC CORNER.

Text reads, John Duffy, StrategyCorp.

John says, THAT'S THE DILEMMA THAT THE
PRIME MINISTER FACED IN CHOOSING
TO CALL THIS ELECTION.
I THINK HE REFRESHED HIS MANDATE
AT THE RIGHT TIME, UM, AND I THINK
PEOPLE WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW
DISAPPOINTED THE LIBERALS ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE, ARE NOT SEEING
THE DEFENSIVE ASPECT OF WHY THIS
ELECTION WAS CALLED WHEN IT WAS
AND CONCENTRATING TOO MUCH ON
THE THIRST FOR A MAJORITY, THE
OFFENSIVE ASPECTS, WHICH OF
COURSE HAVE TO BE FACTORED IN.

Text reads, the week in review, @TheAgenda, tvo.org.

John says, SO I THINK TRUDEAU GOT A PRETTY
DECENT RESULT OUT OF A TRICKY
SITUATION, AND HE SHOULD BE
PRETTY HAPPY THIS MORNING.

Steve says, DAVID, THE
CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS, THIS WAS
A STATUS QUO ELECTION, A BIG
NOTHING BURGER.
WOULD YOU TRY TO CONVINCE PEOPLE
THAT SOMETHING, WILDLY EXCITING
HAPPENED LAST NIGHT?

David, the man wearing a black suit jacket says, UH, YOU KNOW, STEVE, I, I’D LIKE TO
BE ABLE TO SAY THAT, UH, THAT YOU KNOW,
THERE WAS, THERE WAS SOME MASSIVE UH, UPSET TO
THE STATUS QUO THAT MAKES THIS UH,
MORE TALKING FODDER.

Text reads, David Tarrant, conservative strategist.

David says, UM, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, UM, UH, THE
LIBERALS BANKED ON,
THAT THERE WAS A CHANGE IN
PUBLIC OPINION.
THEY BANKED ON, THE NOTION THAT, UH,
THAT THE PANDEMIC LEADERSHIP WOULD
GET THEM, UH, THE EXTRA SEATS
NECESSARY TO GIVE THEM A
FOUR-YEAR BLANK CHEQUE, AND THAT, AND THAT
THE PANDEMIC HAD FUNDAMENTALLY
RESET A LOT OF THE BAGGAGE
MR. TRUDEAU HAD ACCUMULATED IN
THE PAST SIX YEARS.
UM, THAT BET DIDN'T PAY OFF.
AND, AND, AND TO JOHN'S POINT, I THINK THE
LIBERALS ARE RELIEVED TODAY.
I MEAN, THREE WEEKS AGO THEY
WERE STARING AT QUITE FRANKLY A, UH,
AN ELECTORAL DEFEAT.
UH, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE
MOST CATASTROPHIC ELECTORAL
CALLS IN CANADIAN HISTORY.

John nods.

David says, UH, THEY ESCAPED THAT.
UM, BUT THEY BANKED ON THIS BEING A
CHANGE AND, AND THAT, THAT TRUDEAU COULD
REAP ALL KINDS OF PLAUDITS FOR
WHAT HE DID LAST SUMMER.

Text reads, David Tarrant, Enterprise Canada.

David says, UH, AND
THAT OBVIOUSLY DID NOT HAPPEN,
AND THE FACT, IF ANYTHING
CHANGED, IT CRYSTALLIZED IN A
LOT OF CANADIANS THE REASONS WHY, UM,
THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE FONDNESS FOR
MR. TRUDEAU THE WAY THEY DID SIX
YEARS AGO AND, AND SOME OF THE MORE
NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF HIS
PERSONALITY AND STYLE OF
LEADERSHIP.

Steve says, JORDAN, WOULD YOU
ATTEMPT TO CONVINCE CANADIANS
THAT THIS WAS NOT A GIANT WASTE
OF TIME?

Jordan, the woman with glasses says, WELL, I DON'T THINK AN
ELECTION IS EVER A WASTE OF
TIME, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS A
GOOD NIGHT FOR MR. TRUDEAU AT
ALL.

Text reads, Jordan Leichnitz, former senior NDP advisor.

Jordan says, UM, YOU KNOW, THE ONLY WAY THAT THIS
COULD BE CONSIDERED A REAL WIN
FOR HIM IS IF WE CONSIDERED IN
COMPARISON TO THE POTENTIAL
SCENARIOS THAT WERE EMERGING IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE CAMPAIGN.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY HE
WENT TO THE ELECTORATE BECAUSE
HE WANTED TO SEEK A MAJORITY
MANDATE.
HE DIDN'T GET THAT.
AND IN FACT WE'RE NOW BACK
PRETTY MUCH WHERE WE WERE BEFORE
EXCEPT HE'S GOT A MORE
CHALLENGING PATH AHEAD OF HIM IN
THIS MINORITY PARLIAMENT.
SO, I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE
A LOT OF SOUL SEARCHING ON THE
PART OF LIBERALS ABOUT WHETHER
THIS WAS WORTH IT AND I SUSPECT
MORE THAN A FEW OF THEM WISH
THEY HAD A BIT OF A TIME MACHINE
TO PULL THE PLUG A LITTLE
EARLIER THAN THEY DID.

Steve says, ABHIJEET, WHERE ARE
YOU ON THIS?

Abhijeet, the man with the beard, says, WELL, I MEAN, I SAW YESTERDAY ON
TWITTER SOMEBODY CALLED IT THE
MOST EXPENSIVE CABINET SHUFFLE
IN CANADIAN HISTORY UM, AND IT’S UM…

Text reads, Abhijeet Manay, green party of Ontario.

Abhijeet says, I MEAN, THAT'S EXACTLY, UH, WHAT IT
WAS, WAS A MASSIVE WASTE OF
TIME, UH, FUELLED MOSTLY BY UH, HUBRIS
AND AMBITION.
UM, AND, I MEAN, THE MONEY INVOLVED,
$600 MILLION, THAT COULD HAVE
BEEN SPENT, YOU KNOW, LIFTING
HOW MANY, UH, BOIL WATER ADVISORIES,
UH, FUELLING AND FUNDING HOW MANY
CLIMATE ACTION PROJECTS, UM, NOT TO
MENTION THIS IS DURING A
PANDEMIC.
SO, HOW MANY CANDIDATES,
VOLUNTEERS, AS WELL AS UM, UM, VOTERS
WERE EXPOSED TO COVID-19 WHEN
THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO?
UH, SO, I THINK IT WAS IN, INCREDIBLY
IN, ILL-TIMED, UM, ELECTION AND I'M GLAD
THAT THE CANADIAN ELECTORATE
SORT OF CHASTENED UH, THE PRIME
MINISTER AND GAVE HIM THE SAME
RESULT, UH, SAYING GO WORK WITH
THE OTHER PARTIES BECAUSE THAT'S
WHAT MINORITY GOVERNMENTS MAKE
UH, OTHERS DO.

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.


A woman says, I HAVE A BIT OF A LESS
OPTIMISTIC VIEW, A PESSIMISTIC
VIEW.
YOU KNOW, THEY’LL SURPRISE ME IF THEY
ACTUALLY PULL THIS OFF AND WORK TOGETHER.

Steve wears a light blue dress shirt and yellow tie. He shares the screen with a man wearing a dark shirt, a woman with long brown hair, a bald man and a woman with short blond hair. In the bottom left is The Agenda logo. Text reads, major lessons for a minority government, “Hey Jagmeet, it’s Justin…”


Steve says, WELL, LET ME FOLLOW UP
WITH YOU ON THAT, TONDA.
PRESUMABLY, MUCH OF THIS IS HELPED
IF THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS MOST
LIKELY DANCE PARTNER, IN THIS
CASE I GUESS NDP LEE…NDP LEADER JAGMEET
SINGH, HAVE A DECENT PERSONAL
RELATIONSHIP.
DO WE KNOW IF THEY DO?

Tonda, the woman with short blond hair, shakes her head.

She says, NO.
THEY DON'T.
THEY DON'T.
LOOK, JAGMEET SINGH JUST SPENT FIVE
WEEKS PROSECUTING THE CASE THAT
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, YOU COULDN'T
TRUST HIM AS FAR AS YOU COULD
THROW HIM.

Text reads, Tonda MacCharles, Toronto Star.

Tonday says, THEY DON'T HAVE A GOOD
RELATIONSHIP.
SINCE LAST SPRING, JUSTIN, JAGMEET SINGH
HAS BEEN SAYING THAT THE
LIBERALS NEVER DO WHAT THEY SAY
THEY'RE GONNA DO.
UM, THEY HAVEN'T HAD THAT KIND OF
RELATIONSHIP EVEN THROUGH
PANDEMIC.

Text reads, the week in review, @TheAgenda, tvo.org.

Tonda says, I MEAN, THEY MIGHT SORT OF
RESPECT EACH OTHER'S POLITICAL
SKILLS, AND I THINK THEY DO.
BUT PERSONALLY, UH, JUSTIN TRUDEAU
TOLD THE STAR'S EDITORIAL BOARD
THAT, WHAT, THE WAY JAGMEET SINGH HAS
CONDUCTED HIMSELF IN THIS
ELECTION HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE
CYNICISM.
HE'S TERRIBLY ANGRY THAT THE NDP
PARTY WOULD, THE NDP’S WENT OUT AND
CAMPAIGNED ACROSS THE COUNTRY,
TELLING EVERYBODY THAT HE’D
DONE NOTHING.
AND HIS, HE WAS VERY ANIMATED WHEN HE
SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT NOTHING.
WE'VE DONE CHILD CARE.
WE’RE ACTING ON, WE HAVE A REAL PLAN ON
CHILD, ON UH, CLIMATE CHANGE.
IT'S NOT NOTHING.
AND HE WAS ACTUALLY QUITE ANGRY
ABOUT THE, WHAT HE CALLED THE NDP'S
MISLEADING ON THE RECORD AND
CONTRIBUTING TO THAT PUBLIC
CYNICISM WRIT LARGE.
SO, GUYS NO, THERE'S NOT A GREAT
PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.

The woman with long brown hair laughs.

Tonda says, THERE'S NO BROMANCE.
THEY BOTH LOVE SOCIAL MEDIA.
THEY BOTH HAVE AN INSTAGRAM
GAME.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY’RE, THIS IS NOT UH,
YOU KNOW, GOING TO BE A WALTZ.
IF ANYTHING, THIS IS GOING TO BE
LIKE A, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT?
SLAM DOWN, BREAK DOWN DANCE OR
SOMETHING.

(Laughter)

Steve says, YOU'RE REAL HIP WITH
THE TERMS THERE.

The woman with long brown hair says, STEVE, CAN I, CAN I JUST COUNTER THAT?

Steve says, GO AHEAD, KATE.

Kate, the woman with long brown hair, says, I’M JUST GONNA,
HUGH STARTED THIS BY SAYING
IT'S TIME TO PUT THE MIRROR ON
THE DESK, UH, IN THE DRAWER.
AND I ACTUALLY KINDA HOPE WE SEE THE
OPPOSITE HAPPEN.
YOU KNOW, CAMPAIGNING IS NOT GOVERNING.
WE ALL KNOW THAT.
UH, THERE WILL NEED TO BE A SHIFT
NOW.
THE PARTIES, YOU KNOW, NO LONGER IN MY VIEW,
HAVE THE SAME INCENTIVE AROUND
DISCREDITING ONE ANOTHER.

Text reads, Kate Graham, Western University.

Kate says, THEY KNOW AND THEY’VE HEARD
THE MESSAGE THAT THERE ARE A
VERY SHORT LIST OF ISSUES THAT
MATTER A LOT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE
DYNAMIC DURING THE CAMPAIGN, BUT
I CANNOT HELP BUT RETAIN MY
OPTIMISM THAT WE MAY SEE A
CHANGE UH, IN THE WEEKS TO COME.

Steve says, WELL, HUGH SEGAL,
LET ME FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ON
THAT.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT
THEY SAID THAT 45 YEARS AGO THE
MINORITY PARLIAMENTS IN ONTARIO
LASTED FOR SIX YEARS AND WORKED
AS WELL AS THEY DID IS THAT BILL
DAVIS AND THE THEN NDP LEADER
STEPHEN LEWIS, REALLY GOT ON VERY
WELL AND EVENTUALLY DEVELOPED A
LIFE-LONG FRIENDSHIP.
HOW SIGNIFICANT IS IT, IN YOUR
VIEW, THAT THE PLAYERS ACTUALLY
LIKE EACH OTHER TO MAKE THIS
WORK?

Hugh, the bald man, says, WELL, LET'S REMEMBER
THAT WHEN THE UM, MAJORITY
CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT WAS
REDUCED TO A MINORITY IN '75, IN
LARGE MEASURE BECAUSE
MR. LEWIS CAMPAIGNED SO
EFFECTIVELY AND SAID SOME VERY,
VERY TOUGH THINGS ABOUT THE
DAVIS GOVERNMENT…

Text reads, Hugh Segal, Queen’s University.

Hugh says, … UH, THAT DID NOT, THAT DID NOT
SPAWN THE RELATIONSHIP OF
WORKING TOGETHER AND MUTUAL
RESPECT.
THAT DEVELOPED AFTERWARDS.
WHEN MR. LEWIS WAS LEADER
OF THE OPPOSITION.
MR. DAVIS WAS A MINORITY PREMIER,
THE LIBERALS
HAD BEEN REDUCED TO THIRD PLACE
WHICH IS ALWAYS HAPPENS WITH NEW
DEMOCRATS AND CONSERVATIVES.
AND ON THAT BASIS, THE RELATIONSHIP
WAS BUILT.
SO, I WOULD NOT, I DON'T DISAGREE
WITH TONDA'S ANALYSIS AT ALL.
BUT I WOULDN'T PRESUME THAT THE
NATURE OF THE DYNAMIC GOING
FORWARD WILL BE ALWAYS LIMITED BY WHAT
IT'S BEEN UP UNTIL
ELECTION DAY.


Kate and Tonda nod.

Hugh says, BECAUSE ALL OF
THESE LEADERS HAVE SEEN THE
MESSAGE.
THEY’VE HEARD IT.
IF THEY HAVE COMPETENT POLLSTERS,
IT WILL BE EXPLAINED TO THEM.
NOW THEY’RE HEARING,
WHAT DO YOU DO NOW?
(indiscernible)
TACTICAL ANIMOSITY
THAT DOESN'T GET YOU ANYWHERE,
AND THAT'S THE CHOICE THEY HAVE TO
MAKE.

Steve says, DAVE COOKE, YOU WANT
IN ON THAT?

Dave, the man in the dark shirt, says, COULD I JUST POP IN
THERE FOR A SEC.
THE, LET'S ALSO REMEMBER IN 1977,
UH, STEVEN RESIGNED AS LEADER.

Text reads, Dave Cooke, former NDP MPP.

Dave says, AH, SO FOR THE LARGEST PART OF
MINORITY GOVERNMENT, UH, MICHAEL
CASSIDY WAS THE LEADER OF THE
NDP.

Hugh nods.

Dave says, AND, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, I
DON'T THINK THAT MICHAEL CASSIDY
AND BILL DAVIS WERE BEST OF
FRIENDS.

(Laughter)

Hugh shakes his head.

Dave says, UM, THE REALITY, THE REALITY
IN THAT FOUR YEARS,
WAS THE NDP HAD A NEW LEADER.
AND I WOULD SAY AS A MEMBER OF
THAT CAUCUS WE WERE NOT OVERLY
OPTIMISTIC OF HOW WELL THAT
LEADER WAS GOING TO BE LEADING
US AND TAKE US INTO THE NEXT
ELECTION.
SO WE DID NOT WANT AN ELECTION.
THE LIBERALS DIDN'T WANT AN
ELECTION.
SO THE DYNAMIC REALLY WAS, WE GOTTA
DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO WORK
AS WELL AS WE CAN WITH THE
GOVERNMENT.
AND AVOID AN ELECTION.
SO IT WAS QUITE A DIFFERENT
DYNAMIC THAN SAY WHEN STEVEN AND,
AND UH, AND MR. DAVIS WERE UH,
WERE THERE TOGETHER.

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Steve says, OKAY.
HERE’S THE CABINET SWEARING IN.
I MEAN, THAT WAS A LOVELY MOMENT OF
CANADA SERVING IN ITS FIRST-EVER
INDIGENOUS JUSTICE MINISTER.
WHAT WERE YOU THINKING AT THAT
MOMENT?

A picture of Jody Wilson-Raybould and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau looking at each other is displayed. They have their hands on each other’s arms. Behind them is a Canadian flag. In the bottom left is The Agenda logo.

A person says, WELL, I, ASIDE FROM UH,
ASIDE FROM MY, MY KNEES
KNOCKING TOGETHER AND, AND BEING
NERVOUS, RECOGNIZING THAT, UM, THE
EYES OF UH, MANY OF THE EYES OF THE
COUNTRY WERE, WERE ON ME, I AT THAT
MOMENT, I FELT TREMENDOUS PRIDE.

Jody Wilson-Raybould wears a blue blazer. Text reads, an independent voice, a non-conventional MP.

Jody says, I WAS OVERCOME WITH EMOTION IN
TERMS OF WHAT THAT MOMENT MEANT,
OF COURSE, TO ME AND MY FAMILY
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, MORE BROADLY THAN THAT.
BUT, IN PARTICULAR, WHAT IT
MEANT, UM, TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.
UM, BEING SWORN IN AS THE FIRST
MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND
ATTORNEY-GENERAL OF CANADA THAT
IS INDIGENOUS MEANT SOMETHING.

Text reads, Jody Wilson-Raybould, author, “Indian in the Cabinet.”

Jody says, IT MEANT SOMETHING FOR THE
COUNTRY IN TERMS OF HOW FAR WE
HAVE COME.
UM, SO I, YOU KNOW, I HAD GREAT HOPE
AND, AND OPTIMISM.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, A LOT HAS
TRANSPIRED SINCE THAT PICTURE
WAS TAKEN TO, TO YOU AND I TALKING.
BUT I, I WANT TO SAY I STILL HAVE
HOPE AND I STILL HAVE OPTIMISM.
BUT IT'S THAT IN BETWEEN SPACE
IN TERMS OF THE YEARS, UM, AND MY
EXPERIENCE WITHIN GOVERNMENT AND
MY EXPERIENCE WITH SPEAKING UP
AND SPEAKING THE TRUTH THAT I, I
SOUGHT TO RELAY IN THIS BOOK IN
TERMS OF LESSONS THAT I'VE
LEARNED, LESSONS, UM, IN, AROUND HOW
GOVERNMENT OPERATES AND HOW WE
CAN WORK MORE DILIGENTLY TOWARDS
IMPROVING OUR SYSTEM OF
GOVERNMENT AND GOOD GOVERNANCE
AND MOVING AWAY FROM
PARTISANSHIP.
UM, SO IT’S, I HOPE THAT UM, THROUGH THE
WRITING OF THIS BOOK AND TELLING
OF MY STORY THAT UM, OTHERS CAN,
CAN LEARN FROM THAT AND WE CAN
CONTINUE TO IMPROVE AS A
COUNTRY.

Steve asks, DID YOU EVER IMAGINE
THAT A FEW YEARS AFTER THAT
QUITE LOVELY PICTURE YOU WOULD
SAY TO THAT MAN: "I WISH I'D
NEVER MET YOU"?
THAT'S WHAT YOU SAY IN THE BOOK.

Jody says, I, NO, I NEVER THOUGHT
THAT.
I MEAN I DO TALK ABOUT SOME
WARNING SIGNS IN TERMS OF SOME
OF THE UM, INTERACTIONS AND
EXPERIENCES THAT I HAD EARLY ON.

Text reads, this week in review, @TheAgenda, tvo.org.

Jody says, UM, BUT I WAS, I WAS OVERCOME WITH UH, DESIRE
TO, TO DO UH, WHAT WE PROMISED TO DO.
TO CHANGE THE CULTURE OF
POLITICS.
UM, TO BE UM, A GOVERNMENT BY CABINET.

Jody’s book, “Indian in the Cabinet” is displayed beside her in a split screen.

Jody says, AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW I WASN'T
THE ONLY ONE IN THINKING BACK TO
THE FEELING, UH, IN 2015 AND THE
PEOPLE THAT WERE AROUND ME ON MY
CAMPAIGN.
SO MANY, UM, EXPRESSED THAT SAME
SENSE OF, OF HOPE AND THAT SAME
OPTIMISM THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY
ENGAGE IN DISCUSSIONS IN A, IN A
DIFFERENT WAY.

Text reads, Jody Wilson-Raybould, @puglaas.

Jody says, SO, UM, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT UM, THAT
LINE IN THE BOOK WHERE I SAID TO
JUSTIN TRUDEAU THAT I WISH I'D
NEVER MET HIM, THAT'S HOW I
FELT IN THE MOMENT.
UM, BUT I, I WOULD NOT CHANGE, UM, THE
EXPERIENCE I HAD, ALMOST SIX
YEARS BEING UM, INCREDIBLY HONOURED
TO HAVE BEEN THE MEMBER OF
PARLIAMENT FOR
VANCOUVER-GRANVILLE AND FOR
THREE OF THOSE YEARS BEING A
MINISTER OF THE CROWN.

Text reads, Jody Wilson-Raybould, former federal minister of justice.

Jody says, UM, AN EXTRAORDINARY HONOUR, UM, BY ANY
MEASURE.
AND I, I UM, CERTAINLY LOOK BACK ON MY
EXPERIENCE AND, AND REALIZE THAT
EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON.
AND I'M STILL THE SAME PERSON I
WAS WHO DECIDED TO TRANSITION
FROM INDIGENOUS POLITICS TO, TO
FEDERAL POLITICS.
AND GETTING INVOLVED, HAVING
MORE PEOPLE FROM MARGINALIZED
COMMUNITIES GETTING INVOLVED
MATTERS BECAUSE DIFFERENT VOICES
MATTER.
AND UH, IN TERMS OF SPEAKING UP, I
WILL CONTINUE TO DO THAT BECAUSE
UM, WE NEED MORE PEOPLE TO SPEAK UP
BECAUSE THAT'S HOW OUR SYSTEMS
IMPROVE.

Steve says, JODY, UH, EVERYBODY
REMEMBERS, OF COURSE, THAT YOUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PM
FELL APART OVER SNC-LAVALIN.
UH, YOU WERE THE JUSTICE MINISTER
AND ATTORNEY-GENERAL AT THE
TIME.

Text reads, an independent voice, SNC Lavalin.

Steve says, UH, YOU BELIEVED THAT HE AND HIS
PEOPLE WERE INAPPROPRIATELY
TRYING TO INFLUENCE YOUR
INDEPENDENCE, THAT YOU FELT YOU NEEDED
AND, IN FACT, LEGALLY YOU HAD, UH, TO
DO YOUR JOB IN THE WAY THAT YOU
DID IT.
WE DON'T NEED TO RE-LITIGATE THE
WHOLE SNC-LAVALIN THING HERE TO
BE SURE.
BUT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T
UNDERSTAND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF
WHAT YOUR CONCERNS WERE, WHAT
EXACTLY IS THE PROBLEM WITH A
PRIME MINISTER, A MONTREAL M.P.
TO BOOT, TRYING TO USE HIS
GOOD OFFICES TO TRY TO MAKE SURE
THAT A COMPANY THAT HIRES 9,000
PEOPLE IN THE PROVINCE OF QUEBEC
GETS EVERY BREAK?

Jody says, WELL, I, I, I MEAN I WAS THE
MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL OF CANADA.
AND THOSE ARE TWO VERY DISTINCT
ROLES.

Text reads, Jody Wilson-Raybould, author, “Indian in the Cabinet.”

Jody says, AS THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL, UM, I AM
RESPONSIBLE, OR THE
ATTORNEY-GENERAL IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR OVERSEEING PROSECUTIONS IN
THIS COUNTRY.
AND UM, I UM, UNDERSTOOD MY JOB VERY
CLEARLY.
AND, UM, WHILE JOBS ARE IMPORTANT AND
ENSURING PEOPLE HAVE WELL PAYING
JOBS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ALL
WANT TO ASPIRE TO.

Text reads…, Jody Wilson-Raybould, former federal minister of justice.

Jody says, THERE ARE
BASIC FUNDAMENTAL TENETS IN OUR
DEMOCRACY INCLUDING HAVING UM, A THE
INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIAL
SYSTEM.
INDEPENDENCE OF THE PROSECUTION.
AND AS THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL
OVERSEEING THAT AND ENSURING
THAT THERE IS NO POLITICAL
INTERFERENCE IN HOW, UM, ONE
PROSECUTES PARTICULAR CASES
UM, UNDERSCORES THAT.
AND ENSURING THAT THE RULE OF
LAW IS UPHELD.

(Calm music plays)

Beside The Agenda logo, text reads, the week in review.

Steve says, JOE BIDEN, THE
AMERICAN PRESIDENT SAID, THE
UNITED STATES HAS NO MORE
RELIABLE ALLY IN THE WORLD THAN
AUSTRALIA.

Steve looks shocked. He wears a yellow shirt and red tie. He shares a screen with a woman with long light brown hair, a man wearing a black suit jacket, a woman wearing a black blazer and a man wearing a grey suit jacket. In the bottom left is The Agenda logo. Text reads, is Canada along in a rudderless world?, remaking of the International Order.

Steve says, I MEAN, ADAM, THEY USED TO SAY THAT KIND
OF STUFF ABOUT US.
WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

The woman with long light brown hair nods.

Wearing the black suit jacket, says, WELL, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THIS
ANNOUNCEMENT DOESN'T BOTHER ME
NEARLY AS MUCH AS, AS SOME OF THE
OTHER THINGS THAT THE PANELISTS
WERE TALKING ABOUT.

Text reads, Adam Chapnick, Royal Military College of Canada.

Adam says, IN THIS CASE, UH AUSTRALIA HAD A
DEAL WITH FRANCE TO BUY
SUBMARINES AND THEY DIDN'T LIKE
IT.
THEY FOUND A BETTER DEAL WITH
THE UNITED STATES THAT DIDN'T
SEEM TO TELL THE FRENCH ALL THAT
MUCH ABOUT IT.
UH, THE AMERICANS BROUGHT THE
BRITISH IN.
THEY SIGNED A NEW PACT.
THEY ADDED SOME NICE WORDS
AROUND IT TO MAKE IT MORE THAN JUST A
PACT.
BUT THE FRENCH TOOK IT AS A STAB
IN THE BACK.
UM, IN THIS CASE, I DON'T WANT TO
SEE CANADA IN THE MIDDLE OF A, OF A
DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN SOME OF ITS
MOST IMPORTANT ALLIES.
I'M ACTUALLY QUITE HAPPY THAT
WE'RE OUTSIDE OF THIS.
NOT THAT I'M SURPRISED THAT
WE'RE OUTSIDE OF IT.
BUT THIS ISN'T ONE OF THOSE
THINGS WHERE WE REALLY WANT TO
BE IN THE MIDDLE.
WE NEED THE UNITED STATES,
FRANCE, AUSTRALIA, THE UNITED KINGDOM,
TO GET ALONG.
WE, WE CAN’T HAVE THEM FIGHTING.
BEING ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER
DOESN'T UH, GET RID OF THIS FIGHT.

Steve says, NO, I APPRECIATE THAT.
BUT LAUREN, THIS SEEMS LIKE A FAIRLY
SIGNIFICANT NEW DEVELOPMENT, A
NEW INSTITUTION IN INTERNATIONAL
AFFAIRS.
MOST OF THE ALLIES SEEM TO HAVE
BEEN CAUGHT OFF-GUARD BY THE
FACT IT HAPPENED AND WE'RE NOT
PART OF IT.
IS THAT PROBLEMATIC?

Lauren, the woman in the black blazer, says, I MEAN, I WOULD AGREE WITH
ADAM THAT, YES, IT WAS WHAT IT
WAS.
NO, IT WASN'T IDEAL FOR A NUMBER
OF REASONS.

Text reads, Lauren Dobson-Hughes, LDH Consulting.

Lauren says, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LAST
TWO YEARS, IT DOES NOT SURPRISE
ME THAT, YOU'RE SEEING THESE
INCREASINGLY FRACTURED
ALLIANCES, YOU'RE SEEING, YOU
KNOW, IF WE START FROM THE START
OF COVID WHERE WHAT WE NEEDED
WAS INTERNATIONAL SOLIDARITY AND
WE NEEDED SOME LEADERSHIP.
PEOPLE TALK ABOUT LEADERSHIP IN
A VERY EPHEMERAL, THROW THE WORD
AROUND WAY.
BUT WE NEEDED A GROUP OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE IN CHARGE AND HAVE BEEN
ELECTED TO MAKE HARD DECISIONS
COMING TOGETHER AND SAY, THIS IS
A FRIGHTENING TIME.
HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO
TOGETHER.

Text reads, Lauren Dobson-Hughes, @ldobsonhughes.

Lauren says, HERE'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET
THROUGH IT.
AND INSTEAD WE JUST HAD
EVERYBODY FOR THEMSELVES, THESE
VERY SORT OF TACTICAL AND
SELF-INTERESTED TRADING OF
VACCINES, FOR EXAMPLE, OR
SHORT-TERM ALLEGIANCES FOR
DOMESTIC REASONS, AND YOU'VE
SEEN THAT CONTINUE.

Text reads, the week in review, @TheAgenda, tvo.org.

Lauren says, YOU SAW THE G-7 AS WELL AT ODDS
AND FRACTURED, EVEN WITHOUT
TRUMP IN PLACE.
AND SO, NO, IT DOESN'T SURPRISE
ME THAT 18 MONTHS AFTER THAT
WE'RE CONTINUING TO FRACTURE AND
WITH THE
SHORT-TERIST ALLIANCES FOR
DOMESTIC REASONS, IT'S A PATTERN
THAT'S LIKELY TO CONTINUE, I
WOULD GUESS.

Steve says, GARRY, CAN I GET YOU
ON THAT?
DOES IT SAY ANYTHING OF
SIGNIFICANCE TO THE FACT WE
DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS, WE'RE
NOT PART OF IT, AND YET HERE IT
IS?

Garry, the man in the grey suit jacket says, WELL, I THINK I'D SPLIT THE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ADAM AND
LAUREN.

Text reads, Garry Keller, StrategyCorp.

Garry says, I, I THINK YOU CAN'T IGNORE THAT, THAT
PART OF THIS IS ACTUALLY ABOUT A
NUCLEAR SUBMARINE DEAL.
THERE ARE SOME ISSUES AROUND
MILITARY PROCUREMENT.
THERE'S SOME STRAIGHT BUSINESS
INTERESTS, DOLLARS AND CENTS
ISSUES, AROUND THAT ASPECT OF
IT.

Lauren and the woman with the long light brown hair nod.

Garry says, YOU CAN'T DENY THAT THAT'S
ABSOLUTELY PART OF IT.
BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF IT TOO IS
THIS, UH, THIS AREA AROUND
INFORMATION-SHARING.
AND, YOU KNOW, FOR A LONG TIME THERE'S BEEN
ACCUSATIONS THAT CANADA HASN'T
BEEN DOING ITS PART.

Text reads, Garry Keller, @garry_keller.

Garry says, I READ A RECENT PART, AH PIECE BY
STEPHANIE CARVIN WHO TALKS ABOUT
CANADA’S INVOLVEMENT IN THE FIVE-EYES
COMMUNITY.
WHICH IS THE THREE COUNTRIES WE’VE
TALKED ABOUT PLUS CANADA AND NEW ZEALAND
AND FOR A LONG TIME AUSTRALIA HAS
BEEN AH, PLAYING A MUCH MORE LEADING
ROLE, INFORMATION-SHARING AND
ACTIVE ROLE IN THE FIVE EYES
MAYBE THAN CANADA HAS BEEN.
AND THAT, THAT REQUIRES INVESTMENT AND, AND,
AND TAKING PART IN IT.
I THINK WHAT IS MORE CONCERNING
FROM A, FROM A, AN ALLY STANDPOINT AND
HEARING BIDEN'S COMMENTS, UH, IS
THAT INCREASINGLY THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF REGIONAL FORUMS AROUND
THE WORLD, WHETHER IT'S QUAD,
WHETHER IT'S OTHER FORUMS, WHERE
CANADA HAS, HAS REMAINED
DISINTERESTED.
AND, AND MY FORMER COLLEAGUE UH, HOWARD
ANGLIN WHO WAS DEPUTY CHIEF OF
STAFF TO PRIME MINISTER HARPER,
AND WORKED A LOT OF FOREIGN
POLICY ISSUES AS WELL,
HE SAID, YOU KNOW, AS PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU
HAS SHOWN LITTLE INTEREST IN STRATEGIC
DEFENCE OR GEOPOLITICS.

Lauren nods.

Garry says, THAT MEANS THAT CANADA’S
FOREIGN POLICY HAS LARGELY BEEN LEFT
TO THE GREAT MEN AND WOMEN OF THE
PIERSON BUILDING.

The woman with the light brown hair laughs to herself.

Garry says, THE PROBLEM WITH THIS APPROACH IS THAT
YOU STOP SHOWING UP FOR YOUR
FRIENDS, EVENTUALLY THEY STOP
INVITING YOU.
AND I THINK THAT THOSE ARE SOME WISE
WORDS THAT ARE WORTH CONSIDERING
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS NEW
ALLIANCE.

Steve says, BESSMA, I SEE YOU
NODDING YOUR HEAD.
DO YOU THINK WE'RE JUST UH, NOT WORTH
INVITING TO THESE PARTIES
ANYMORE?

Bessma, the with the light brown hair says, UH, YEAH, SORT OF.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE WE BRINGING TO
THE TABLE, FRANKLY?
AND I REALLY DON'T THINK THIS IS JUST ABOUT
NUCLEAR POWERED SUBS.

Text reads, Bessma Momani, University of Waterloo.

Bessma says, UM, WHAT’S ON THE TABLE HERE IS
REALLY FUNDAMENTAL.
IT'S ABOUT EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT QUANTUM,
UH, CYBER SECURITY, EVEN INDUSTRIAL
POLICY, TALKING ABOUT SUPPLY
CHAINS.
I MEAN THIS IS A VERY COMPREHENSIVE
PACT.

Text reads, Bessma Momanu, @b_momani.

Bessma says, AND I THINK THE FACT THAT WE'RE EXCLUDED
SAYS A LOT.
UH, AND FRANKLY, THIS IS NOT A TIME, UH, WHEN
WE SHOULD BE NOT JUST ONLY
EXCLUDED BUT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF
SHORT CHANGING OUR OWN
INVESTMENTS IN THESE ISSUES.
THIS IS THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE.
IT IS LIKE INVESTING IN THE
INTERNET, YOU KNOW, 25 YEARS
AGO, THINKING, YOU KNOW, IT'S OKAY IF OTHER
PEOPLE DO IT.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO IT.
IT'S NOT, IT’SS JUST NOT THAT WAY.
WE NEED TO PUT MORE INTO THIS.
SO I THINK THE EMERGING TECHNOLOGY
PIECE IS KEY.
THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO PUT
MORE MONEY IN IT.
AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE EXCLUDED, UH, I
THINK SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE
FACT THAT YOU KNOW, CANADA DOESN'T BRING A
LOT TO THE TABLE.

Text reads, for more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda. Back in the studio, Nam stands in front of the screen with The Agenda logo and text that reads, the week in review.

Nam says, THAT'S JUST SOME OF
WHAT WE COVERED THIS WEEK ON
"THE AGENDA." FOR MORE,
INCLUDING THE FULL
CONVERSATIONS, YOU CAN VISIT OUR
WEBSITE, TVO.ORG, OUR
YOUTUBE CHANNEL AT
YOUTUBE.COM/THEAGENDA, OR OUR TWITTER
FEED
TWITTER.COM/THEAGENDA

On the screen, text reads, connect with us. The logo’s for YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram are displayed. Text reads, AgendsConnect@tvo.org.

Watch: Canada's Labour Shortage and other Agenda highlights