Transcript: Caregiving Challenges and Other Stories from the Week | Mar 19, 2021

Nam stands in the studio. She's in her early forties, with shoulder length straight brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a dark green blazer over a black shirt.

A wall screen behind her reads "The week in review."

Nam says AS WE MARK THE ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF ONTARIO'S FIRST DECLARATION OF A STATE OF EMERGENCY, "THE AGENDA" THIS WEEK LOOKED BACK AT HOW A NEW CORONAVIRUS SPREAD ACROSS THE COUNTRY. AND ASKED WHAT THE PANDEMIC EXPOSED THE WEAKNESSES. "THE AGENDA'S" WEEK IN REVIEW BEGINS HEARING FROM FAMILY CAREGIVERS ABOUT THIS COVID YEAR IN LONG-TERM CARE.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair.

A caption on screen reads "Pandemic's toll on family caregivers. Love and loss."

Steve says CHERIE, MAYBE YOU CAN START US OFF HERE. I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN ESSENTIAL FAMILY CAREGIVER AND WHAT THAT HAS MEANT FOR YOU OVER THE PAST YEAR. START US OFF THERE, IF YOU WOULD.

The caption changes to "Cherie Kok. Long-term care Advocate."

Cherie is in her forties, with shoulder-length straight white hair. She's wearing a blue sweater and a patterned red scarf.

She says I CAN TELL YOU THE FIRST SIX MONTHS WAS A VERY LONG SIX MONTHS WAITING AND WONDERING WHETHER WE'D BE ABLE TO GET BACK IN. WHEN WE WERE ABLE TO HEAR THIS WORD OF "ESSENTIAL CAREGIVER" IT WAS EXCITING AND THRILLING TO THINK THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET BACK IN. AND SO IN OUR CASE WE WERE ABLE TO GET BACK IN LATE AUGUST OF LAST YEAR WHICH WAS SIX MONTHS AND IT WAS... I CAN'T TOLL YOU THE FEELING OF BEING ABLE TO GO BACK IN AND HUG MY DAD FOR THE FIRST TIME IT WAS WONDERFUL.

Steve says CAN YOU TELL US MORE ABOUT THAT MOMENT GOING THAT LONG A PERIOD OF TIME WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO HARDER KISS A... HUG OR KISS A FAMILY MEMBER PARTICULARLY A PARENT MUST HAVE BEEN GRUESOME SO HOW DID THAT MOMENT GO?

Cherie says IT WAS A BIT ODD. BECAUSE THE STAFF THERE, THEY'RE SEEING FAMILY MEMBERS COME IN FOR THE FIRST TIME AND IT WAS ALL A LITTLE BIT... EVERYONE'S A LITTLE TREPIDATIOUS NOT WANTING TO GET TOO CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER. THE STAFF WERE EXCITED TO SEE US AS WELL. BUT IT WAS REALLY, REALLY EXCITING FOR ME TO GO IN. IT WAS VERY, VERY EMOTIONAL. BUT VERY GOOD ON THE SAME HAND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO IN MORE REGULARLY AND GET ON A SCHEDULE AGAIN AND SEE THEM... EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT NOT REMEMBER US IT WAS GOOD TO HAVE SOMEBODY BESIDE STAFF HAVE THEIR EYES AND EARS ON THEM.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says RIGHT. JULIAN, LET ME BRING YOU IN RIGHT NOW AND AS WE DO SO I WILL ASK SHELDON TO BRING UP A PICTURE AND I WOULD LIKE YOU TO TELL US WHO THE THREE PEOPLE ARE IN THE PICTURE.

In a picture, Julian smiles as he crouches next to an elderly woman with curly white hair. A young woman with straight blond hair crouches next to them smiling.

The caption changes to "Julian Morelli. Ottawa Hospital. Essential Family Caregiver."

Julian is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short, receding brown hair. He's wearing glasses, a black suit, blue shirt and black tie.

He says IN THE MIDDLE IS MY BONUS MOM. I CALL HER MY BONUS MOM THAT'S MARY LOU KENNEDY AND MY LOVELY WIFE HEATHER ON THE RIGHT, I GUESS. AND I THINK ME ON THE OTHER SIDE. AND WE WERE CELEBRATING HER 92nd BIRTHDAY AT MY BROTHER-IN-LAW'S HOME AND THAT WAS LAST YEAR, 2020 IN MARCH, ACTUAL.

Steve says YOU CALLING CALL HER YOUR BONUS MOM BUT SHE'S YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW, RIGHT?

Julian says YEAH, I CALL HER MY SECOND MOM. I LIKE THE TERM BONUS MOM. I HAVE A BONUS DAUGHTER, TOO. SHE'S REALLY THAT SPECIAL TO ME.

Steve says AND WHAT WAS IMPORTANT ABOUT THAT MOMENT THAT YOU GOT ON CAMERA THERE?

Julian says WELL, IT WAS HER BIRTHDAY. AND WE WERE CELEBRATING. WE WERE JUST ABOUT TO LEAVE. AND I DON'T KNOW. IT WAS JUST A SHOT THAT HAPPENED AND WE HAD HAD A GREAT EVENING. IT WAS JUST BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HAPPENED. IT WAS JUST BEFORE THE LOCK DOWN CAME INTO EFFECT OF MAYBE A DAY OR TWO. AND WE HAD BROUGHT MARY LOU OVER AND CELEBRATED HER BIRTHDAY TOGETHER WITH HER FAMILY AND EVERYBODY WAS THERE AND WE HAD A GREAT TIME AND SHE WAS FLUENT, LOVELY, FUN, DID A BUNCH OF VIDEO AS WELL.

Steve says GREAT. CRYSTAL, TELL US THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PAST YEAR FOR YOU IN TERMS OF THIS STORY WE'RE COVERING TONIGHT.

The caption changes to "Crystal Nikolich. Family Councils Ontario."
Then, it changes again to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Crystal is in her fifties, with long straight gray hair. She's wearing glasses and a gray turtleneck sweater.

She says WELL, YEAH, THIS STORY TONIGHT HAS A HUGE SIGNIFICANCE FOR ME BECAUSE MY MOTHER'S ON A SECURE UNIT. AND DURING THE PANDEMIC, THE SECURE UNIT'S WHERE YOU LOCK UP THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SHOPPERS OR WALKERS. IT'S A SMALL PRISON IN LONG-TERM CARE, BASICALLY. I KNOW PEOPLE DON'T LIKE US TO USE THOSE WORDS. BUT WHAT I WATCHED HAPPEN TO MY MOTHER ON THE SECURE UNIT OVER YEARS AND WHAT WE WATCHED THROUGH THE PANDEMIC WAS DETERIORATION. AND IT WAS HORRIBLE TO STAND OUTSIDE THERE IN THE WINDOW. I COULD STAND OUTSIDE AND SEE MY MOTHER INSIDE AND I COULD SEE THE DETERIORATION OF THE OTHER RESIDENTS.

The caption changes to "For more: tvo/covid-inside-stories."

Crystal continues SO IT WAS VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFICULT. AND FOR ME, THE PANDEMIC HAS BEEN ABOUT ADVOCATING FOR THE RIGHTS OF FAMILY CAREGIVERS AND ALL THE OTHER CARE RESIDENTS IN THE HOME. WE HAVE 238 RESIDENTS IN OUR HOME ON FOUR FLOORS. WHAT I COULD SEE ON THE SMALL LITTLE 17-PERSON SECURE UNIT WE KNEW WAS HAPPENING THROUGHOUT THE HOME SO IT WAS VERY TRAGIC FOR ME.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

A guest speaks on screen.

The caption changes to "Allison McGeer. Sinai Health System."
Then, it changes again to "How COVID spread in Canada. Mistakes made."

Allison is in her fifties, with short gray hair. She's wearing glasses, an orange blouse and a pendant choker necklace.

She says THE ONLY WEAPON WE HAVE AGAINST COVID IN MARCH AND APRIL OF LAST YEAR WAS IN STAYING APART AND USING MEASURES LIKE HAND HYGIENE AND WEARING MASKS TO PREVENT DROPLETS FROM GETTING TO PERSON TO PERSON. SO ALL YOU COULD DO AT THE BEGINNING WAS TO GO BROAD AND SAY WE NEED TO STOP TRANSMISSION OF THIS VIRUS. AND WE'RE PROBABLY WILLING TO GD WITH STOPPING TRANSMISSION THAN GO UNDER WHICH MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN THINK OF. LIKE STOP EVERYTHING THAT WAS NOT ESSENTIAL TO LIFE IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS. AND TIME HAS GONE ON. WE'VE TRIED TO GET A LITTLE MORE SOPHISTICATED ABOUT THINKING ABOUT WHERE THE RISKS ARE. YOU KNOW, AS Dr. FURNESS SAID WE FIGURED OUT IT'S DROPLET THAT IS ARE THE MAJOR ISSUE SO NOW YOU CAN START TALKING ABOUT HOW WELL MASKS WORK AND THAT MEANS THAT THE HIGH-RISK PLACES ARE THE PLACES YOU TAKE YOUR MASK OFF. OKAY. SO AT RESTAURANTS THEY'RE A PARTICULAR PROBLEM AND WE CAN GET A LITTLE SMARTER ABOUT WHAT THINGS WE CAN HAVE OPEN AND WHAT THINGS WE CANNOT HAVE OPEN. BUT WE'RE STILL REALLY STRUGGLING, I THINK, WITH WHAT... WE WANT TO HAVE EVERYTHING OPEN UP TO THE LIMIT OF, YOU KNOW, LETTING THE CASES GO TOO HIGH AGAIN AND OVERWHELMING OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND HAVING TOO MANY PEOPLE DIE. FIGURING OUT WHERE THAT LIMIT IS, IT REMAINS REALLY DIFFICULT THING DO TO DO.

Steve says JENNIFER MAYBE YOU CAN PICK UP THE STORY THERE. CLEARLY PLACES LIKE TORONTO AND PEEL, THE NATION'S CAPITAL FOR A PIECE AS WELL WERE REALLY SUFFERING. BUT THEN YOU GOT LOTS OF PLACES NORTH OF THE FRENCH RIVER WHERE THEY WERE HAVING NO CASES AT ALL AND YET THE ENTIRE PROVINCE WAS BEING SHUT DOWN. WHAT HAD TO HAPPEN FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO TO SAY YOU KNOW WE CAN TAKE A BIT OF A MORE SYSTEMATIC SOPHISTICATED APPROACH TO THIS. WE DON'T HAVE TO SHUT THE WHOLE PROVINCE DOWN, JUST THE AREAS WE'RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT?

The caption changes to "Jennifer Yang. Toronto Star.

Jennifer is in her early thirties, with long straight black hair. She's wearing a black blazer.

She says YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S STILL VERY MUCH AN OPEN QUESTION AS TO WHAT THE BEST APPROACH FOR LOCKING DOWN IS AND WHETHER, YOU KNOW, REGIONS SHOULD BE LOCKED DOWN TOGETHER OR IF ENTIRE SWATHS OF THE PROVINCE SHOULD BE LOCKED DOWN SIMULTANEOUSLY. THERE IS RESEARCH SHOWING THAT IT DOESN'T WORK AS WELL TO LOCK DOWN IN A PIECEMEAL FASHION WHEN THERE IS HIGH MOBILITY BETWEEN AREAS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, SOME STUDIES OUT OF EUROPE, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE SHOWN THAT LOCK DOWNS ARE MORE EFFICIENT, MORE EFFECTIVE AND FASTER IF YOU LOCK DOWN A BIG AREA, BIG GEOGRAPHIC AREA WITH A LOT OF INTERCONNECTED MOVEMENT VERSUS JUST SOME OF THESE VERY TARGETED, SMALL, LOCAL LOCK DOWNS. AND ACTUALLY I THINK IN ONTARIO WE'VE SEEN THAT JUST LOCKING DOWN SOME REGIONS AND NOT OTHERS CREATES WHAT THEY CALL THESE LEAKY LOCK DOWNS WHERE PEOPLE WILL MOVE FROM A HOT SPOT LIKE TORONTO TO, SAY, NIAGARA REGION WHERE THERE WERE LOWER CASE COUNTS. AND I SPOKE TO THE MEDICAL OFFICER IN NIAGARA AND THE FIRST SIX VARIANTS OF CONCERN THAT THEY DETECTED IN THAT REGION, FIVE OF THEM WERE LINKED TO TRAVELLERS FROM TORONTO. SO, YOU KNOW, TORONTO IS IN LOCK DOWN. NIAGARA HAD OPENED UP A BIT. BUT THAT KIND OF MOVEMENT WAS HAPPENING.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says COLIN FURNESS CAN I GET YOU ON THAT? BEFORE WE STARTED TAPING EJECTED ABOUT THE FACT THAT TORONTO WAS IN LOCK DOWN BUT YORK REGION... JUST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF STEELES AVENUE WASN'T. DOES IT MAKE SENSE WHEN OBVIOUSLY THE VIRUS DOES NOT RESPECT STEELES AVENUE, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO ONLY LOCK DOWN THE CITY BUT LEAVE THE REGION THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET OPEN?

Colin is in his forties, with short brown hair and a trimmed goatee. He's wearing glasses and a gray shirt.

The caption changes to "Colin Furness. University of Toronto."

He says THE PROBLEM WITH DOING BIG WIDE LOCK DOWNS... ALTHOUGH THEY'RE EFFICIENT... IS THAT THEY CAUSE MORE HARM. THERE'S GOING TO BE LESS CAPACITY TO DO THAT WITHOUT GETTING REALLY HARMED. I THINK WHAT WE DIDN'T DO IS ENOUGH PUBLIC EDUCATION TO SAY PLEASE DON'T DO THIS AND HERE'S WHY. WE PLEADED. Mr. FORD'S BEEN ON TV PLEADING WITH PEOPLE NO QUESTION HE'S BEEN DOING THAT. BUT I THINK YOU CAN'T JUST TELL PEOPLE WHAT NOT TO DO. YOU NEED TO TELL THEM WHY. AND I THINK WE HAVE NOT AS A PROVINCE, AS A COUNTRY, FOR THAT MATTER, DONE A DECENT JOB OF PUBLIC EDUCATION. BEFORE THE CRISIS AS WELL AS DURING THE CRISIS. JUST IN TERMS OF HOW PUBLIC HEALTH WORKS AND HOW COMMUNE CAB DISEASE WORKS. SO I THINK WE COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB BUT I'M NOT SURE THE LENGTH OF TIME WOULD BE SUSTAINABLE.

Steve says KELLY LET'S PICK UP THE STORY WITH TRACKING CASES. THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY IN PUBLIC HEALTH THESE ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO IN ORDER TO GET A HANDLE ON THE VIRUS. HOW WELL HAVE WE DONE AT THAT?

The caption changes to "Kelley Lee. Simon Fraser University."

Kelley is in her forties, with short chestnut hair. She's wearing an orange sweater.

She says WELL, IT'S A MIXED PICTURE. I THINK EARLY ON, IF WE GO RIGHT BACK TO THE BEGINNING IN THE YEARS THE PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCY OF CANADA DID ACTUALLY PICK UP THE EARLIEST SIGNALS. WE HAVE SOMETHING CALLED THE GLOBAL HEALTH INTELLIGENCE NETWORK. GHIN WHICH PROVIDES THAT EARLY WARNING DATA AND IT DID REPORT ON DECEMBER 31st WHEN EVERYBODY ELSE HEARD ABOUT THESE CASES. THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE A ROBUST SYSTEM OF ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING WITH THAT DATA.

The caption changes to "For more: tvo.org/covid-inside-stories."

Kelley continues THAT WE DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM OF RISK ASSESSMENT AND THEN REALLY FIRM DECISION-MAKING TO CHECK THAT FORWARD ACTIONS ARE NEEDED. AND WE FOUND THIS OUT AS WE WENT ALONG.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve sits in the studio.

A caption on screen reads "Democracies against COVID: How goes the battle?"

Steve says LET'S START WITH THIS GRAPHIC HERE. A YEAR INTO THE PANDEMIC WE WANT TO JUST SORT OF TAKE STOCK AND SEE HOW DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE BEEN COPING. SO SHELDON OSMOND IF YOU WOULD LET'S BRING THIS UP HERE. THIS IS COVID-19 CONFIRMED DEATHS PER MILLION PEOPLE.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million."

Steve reads data from the slate and says AND THE UNITED KINGDOM IS ACTUALLY AT THE COP OF THIS CHART: 1,851 CONFIRMED COVID DEATHS PER MILLION PEOPLE. THE UNITED STATES COMES NEXT. 1,614. THEN THE EUROPEAN UNION. JUST UNDER 1,300. CANADA, JUST UNDER 600. AUSTRALIA, 35 AND CHANGE. NEW ZEALAND WELL DOWN THE LIST. ONLY 5.4. CHINA 3.4. AND TAIWAN, LESS THAN 1. THAT FROM WORLD AND DATA.ORG. IAN START US OFF ON THIS. THE DIRECTOR GENERAL OF THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION DECLARED LAST MONTH AND HERE'S THE QUOTE: IN MANY WAYS CHINA IS ACTUALLY SETTING A NEW STANDARD FOR OUTBREAK RESPONSE. LET'S START WITH THAT. HAS THE AUTHORITARIAN CHINESE DEALT WITH THIS PANDEMIC BETTER THAN THE DEMOCRATIC WEST?

The caption changes to "Ian Bremmer. Eurasia Group."

Ian is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a blue suit, white shirt and burgundy scarf.

He says ISH. NUMBER ONE, OF ALL THE NUMBERS THAT YOU PUT UP THERE, THAT'S THE CHINESE NUMBER IS THE ONE THAT DESERVES AND ASTERISK. WE DON'T COMPLETELY BUY THAT THEY'VE BEEN STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH THEIR PEOPLE OR THE REST OF THE WORLD ABOUT EXACTLY HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN COVID. THE NUMBERS ARE NOT GOING TO LOOK LIKE AMERICAN NUMBERS BUT THEY'RE PROBABLY A MULTIPLE OF THE NUMBERS THEY'RE ACTUALLY SHOWING. SECOND, WE DO KNOW THAT THE FACT THAT THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT COVERED UP THE INITIAL OUTBREAK, HUMAN-TO-HUMAN TRANSMISSION OF CORONAVIRUS FOR WEEKS WHILE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CHINESE FROM WHUHAN WERE LEAVING NOT JUST WHUHAN BUT ALSO THE COUNTRY. THIS PANDEMIC WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED IN THE AUTHORITARIAN CHINESE GOVERNMENT HAD BEEN AS RESPONSIVE AND AS TRANSPARENT ABOUT THE OUTBREAK AS THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT, THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE BEEN. SO IT IS DISINGENUOUS TO SIMPLY SAY CHINA WINS ON THE BACK OF ALL OF THIS. BUT CERTAINLY AFTER THE CHINESE TOOK RECOGNITION OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED ON THE GROUND AND STARTED COMBATING IT, THEY'VE BEEN INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE FOR A COUNTRY OF 1.4 BILLION. THEY HAVE INCREDIBLE SURVEILLANCE. THEY HAVE EXTRAORDINARY AUTHORITY. THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOCK DOWN THEIR PEOPLE. AND THAT ALLOWED THEM NOT ONLY TO RESTART THEIR SUPPLY CHAIN REALLY BY LAST MAY, JUNE, WHILE THE REST OF US WERE STILL REELING, RESPONDING TO CORONAVIRUS BUT IT ALSO MEANT THAT CHINA WAS THE ONLY MAJOR ECONOMY IN THE WORLD LAST YEAR THAT EXPERIENCED GROWTH. SO BOTH FROM AN ABSOLUTE HEALTH CARE AND NUMBERS OF PEOPLE KILLED PERSPECTIVE AND ALSO THE ABILITY OF THE ECONOMY TO REBOUND, THERE HAVE BEEN REAL CAPACITY THAT THE CHINESE AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT HAS SHOWN THAT THEY CAN, INDEED, RESPOND EFFECTIVELY TO A PANDEMIC.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says THAT LEADS NICELY TO MY NEXT QUESTION FOR AMIR. THERE IS AN ARGUMENT THAT WESTERN DEMOCRACIES ARE MAKING THAT WE OUGHT TO BE BETTER AT FIGHTING PANDEMICS BECAUSE TRANSPARENCY IS A BIG PART OF WHO WE ARE. PUBLIC TRUST, COLLABORATION BETWEEN DIFFERENT LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT AND WITH SOCIETY AND, THEREFORE, WE OUGHT TO BE BETTER THAN AUTHORITYIAN GOVERNMENTS AT FIGHTING THESE TYPES OF GLOBAL PANDEMICS. WHAT DOES THE PAST YEAR TELL YOU ABOUT HOW FIRMLY WE CAN MAKE THAT ARGUMENT?

The caption changes to "Amir Attaran. University of Ottawa."

Amir is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short curly black hair. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit and a white shirt.

He says I DON'T THINK YOU CAN. I SIMPLY THINK THAT THE DATA THAT YOU SHOWED, STEVE IS UNARGUABLE. CERTAIN GOVERNMENTS CATEGORIZE THE DEMOCRATIC HAVE DONE AN AWFUL JOB. CERTAIN OTHERS, NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRALIA HAVE DONE A BRILLIANT JOB. TAIWAN AND MORE THAN THAT BY THE WAY. LOOK, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS THE POINT THAT I THINK IS OVERLOOKED IN THE DEBATE. THE NUMBER OF DEATHS YOU GET FROM COVID IS BOTH BECAUSE OF AN AGENT AND A CAUSE. BUT THE VIRUS IS NOT THE CAUSE.

The caption changes to "For more: tvo.org/covid-inside-stories."

Amir continues THE VIRUS IS THE AGENT OF DISEASE. THE CAUSE OF THE DISEASE IS YOUR POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS AND THEIR RESOLVE TO FIGHT THE VIRUS. BE IT AN AUTHORITARIAN STATE LIKE CHINA OR A DEMOCRATIC STATE LIKE CANADA, THE AGENT OF ALL THOSE DEATHS IS GOVERNMENT. IN BOTH CASES. AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT YOU CAN HAVE A STRONG AGENT... STORY A STRONG CAUSE IN THE GOVERNMENT STANDING UP AGAINST THE VIRUS. IN A DEMOCRACY OR IN A DICTATORSHIP. IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MATTER. WHAT MATTERS TO THIS APOLITICAL VIRUS, THE VIRUS HAS NO POLITICS. IT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT DEMOCRACY, IT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT DICTATORSHIP. WHAT MATTERS IS THE STRENGTH OF THE MEASURES THAT ARE ADOPTED BY IT.

The clips end and Nam stands in the studio alone.

She says THAT'S JUST SOME OF WHAT WE COVERED THIS WEEK ON "THE AGENDA." FOR MORE, INCLUDING THE FULL CONVERSATIONS, YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE tvo.org. OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AT youtube.com/theagenda. OR OUR TWITTER FEED: twitter.com/TheAgenda.

Watch: Caregiving Challenges and Other Stories from the Week