Transcript: Could Your Cocktail Give You Cancer? | Feb 10, 2021

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and gray tie.

A caption on screen reads "Could your cocktail give you cancer? @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says THERE'S NO EASY WAY TO SAY THIS: YOUR EVENING LIBATION MAY COME WITH SOME HAZARDS YOU AREN'T AWARE OF. THAT'S PROBABLY THE LAST THING ANYONE WANTS TO HEAR, IN WHAT FEELS LIKE MONTH 1000 OF A PANDEMIC, WHERE A NIP AT THE END OF A LONG DAY MAY BE A SOURCE OF SOME COMFORT OR EVEN FUN. BUT AS THE CANADIAN CANCER SOCIETY'S CURRENT "DRY FEB." INITIATIVE HIGHLIGHTS, DRINKING ALCOHOL CAN APPARENTLY ADD TO YOUR RISK LEVEL FOR CANCER, AMONG OTHER DANGERS. WITH US TO EXPLAIN: IN VICTORIA, BC: TIM STOCKWELL, SCIENTIST AT THE CANADIAN INSTITUTE FOR SUBSTANCE USE RESEARCH AND A PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VICTORIA...

Tim is in his sixties, with receding wavy gray hair and a full beard. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit and a gray shirt.

Steve continues BACK HERE IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, IN THE BEACHES, OF THE PROVINCIAL CAPITAL: ERIN HOBIN, SCIENTIST AT PUBLIC HEALTH ONTARIO, WITH APPOINTMENTS AT THE U OF T's DALLA LANA SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH, AND THE CANADIAN INSTITUTE FOR SUBSTANCE USE RESEARCH...

Erin is in her thirties, with long straight brown hair. She's wearing a black turtleneck sweater.

Steve continues AND IN LAWRENCE PARK, JUST NORTH OF OUR MIDTOWN STUDIO: DR. LESLIE BUCKLEY, CHIEF OF ADDICTIONS AT CAMH... THE CENTRE FOR ADDICTION AND MENTAL HEALTH...

Leslie is in her forties, with long straight blond hair. She's wearing a blue plaid blazer and a black blouse.

Steve continues WE'RE REALLY GLAD TO HAVE ALL OF YOU THREE ON OUR PROGRAM THIS EVENING. I WANT TO SET UP OUR DISCUSSION, IF I CAN, BY JUST READING THIS. SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD, LET'S BRING UP THE GRAPHIC AND I'LL GO THROUGH IT HERE.

A quote appears on screen, under the title "The link between alcohol and cancer." The quote reads "The sobering news is that drinking any amount of alcohol increases cancer risk. Alcohol increases your risk of head and neck, breast, stomach, pancreatic, colorectal and liver cancers. If more Canadians limit their alcohol intake, we could prevent about 44300 cancer cases by 2042."
Quoted from the Canadian Cancer Society. January 19, 2021.

Steve says ERIN HOBIN, WHY NOT GET US STARTED HERE. WHAT IS THE DEFINITIVE LINK BETWEEN ALCOHOL AND CANCER?

The caption changes to "Erin Hobin. Public Health Ontario."
Then, it changes again to "Risk factors."

Erin says THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION INSTITUTE FOR RESEARCH ON CANCER CLASSIFIED ALCOHOL AS A GROUP ONE CARCINOGEN, THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF RISK, IN 1988. AND AS YOU JUST SHOWED IN YOUR GRAPHIC THERE, ALCOHOL HAS BEEN CONFIRMED INCREASED THE RISK OF AT LEAST SEVEN KINDS OF CANCERS, CANCERS OF THE DIGESTIVE TRACT AS WELL AS FEMALE BREAST. THERE ARE MULTIPLE PATHWAYS BY WHICH ALCOHOL CAN INCREASE YOUR RISK FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF CANCERS DEPENDING ON THE ORGAN AFFECTED, BUT GENERALLY THE ETHANOL IN ALCOHOL IS METABOLIZED IN THE BODY INTO A CHEMICAL THAT BINDS WITH AND DAMAGES THE BODY'S DNA AND PROTEINS.

Steve says ERIN, LET ME DO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU. SOMETIMES WE HERE THESE THINGS AND IT COMES OUT IN THE FINE PRINT AFTERWARDS THAT YOU HAVE TO DRINK 25 BOTTLES A DAY FOR IT COULD BE CARCINOGENIC. MOST PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT. IN FACT, I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO DOES THIS. WHAT TYPE OF INTAKE IS PROBLEMATIC?

Erin says DEFINITELY THE MORE ALCOHOL YOU DRINK, THE HIGHER YOUR RISK. HOWEVER, THE MOST RECENT EVIDENCE IS SUGGESTING THAT EVEN LIGHT AND MODERATE AMOUNTS OF ALCOHOL CAN INCREASE YOUR RISK OF CANCER BY SMALL AMOUNTS, AND IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ALL TYPES OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, WHETHER IT'S BEER, WINE, SPIRITS, COOLERS, OR HARD LIQUOR, CONTAIN THE ETHANOL THAT CAN INCREASE YOUR RISK FOR CANCER.

Steve says TIM STOCKWELL, WHAT GROUPS WOULD YOU SAY ARE MOST AT RISK FOR ALCOHOL RELATED CANCER?

The caption changes to "Tim Stockwell. University of Victoria."

Tim says IT DOESN'T REALLY SPARE ANY OF US. CLEARLY FOR BREAST CANCER, WOMEN ARE THE MAIN RISK. SOME MEN CAN GET BREAST CANCER. ONE NOT MENTIONED IN THE STANDARD LIST IS PROSTATE CANCER. THERE'S INCREASING EVIDENCE THAT STARTING FROM A LOW DOSE THE RISK FOR PROSTATE CANCER FOR MEN INCREASES. IT'S BASICALLY ALL OF US AND IN LATER YEARS BECAUSE THESE RISKS TEND TO TAKE A WHILE TO ACCUMULATE. WE HAVE TO EXPOSE OUR BODY MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE YEARS, USUALLY. I MEAN, IT'S A LOTTERY. IT'S JUST YOUR CHANCE OF ALCOHOL-RELATED CANCER INCREASES AS YOU GET OLDER.

Steve says WHAT GENETICS PLAY A ROLE IN THIS?

The caption changes to "Tim Stockwell. Canadian Institute for Substance use Research."

Tim says I BELIEVE SO, I MEAN WE'RE ALL GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED TO DIFFERENT DISEASES AND CANCER IS NO EXCEPTION.

Steve says WHAT ROLE WOULD STRESS PLAY IN ANY OF THIS?

The caption changes to "Leslie Buckley. Centre for Addiction and Mental Health."

Leslie says ONE THING WE KNOW ABOUT STRESS AND DRINKING IS THEY'RE LINKED. SO WE CAN SEE IN THE NEUROCHEMISTRY THAT WHEN STRESS LEVELS INCREASE, WE CAN SEE CENTRES THAT WE KNOW ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR CRAVING LIGHTING UP. SO WE KNOW THAT EVEN FROM A BIOLOGICAL LEVEL, STRESS IS AN IMPORTANT FACTOR AND CERTAINLY I THINK THAT EVERYONE IS EXPERIENCING IN THE PANDEMIC WE'RE SEEING INCREASED ALCOHOL USE AND WE KNOW THAT STRESS IS A BIG FACTOR FOR THAT.

Steve says ERIN, WHAT ABOUT THE NOTION THAT WE USED TO HEAR IN THE PAST THAT ONE GLASS OF WINE OVER DINNER, NEVER MIND WOULDN'T HURT YOU BUT ACTUALLY HAD MEDICINAL VALUE TO IT?

The caption changes to "Erin Hobin, @ErinhobinPhD."

Erin says THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION AND THAT OFTEN COMES UP BECAUSE THAT IS A COMMON BELIEF AMONG THE GENERAL PUBLIC. BUT THERE IS VERY CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN PUBLISHED RECENTLY THAT CHALLENGES THAT BELIEF AND ACTUALLY SHOWED THAT ANY TYPE OF ALCOHOL, WHETHER IT'S RED WINE, CAN INDEED INCREASE ALL ALCOHOL-RELATED HEALTH HARMS, INCLUDING CANCER.

Steve says SO THE NEW RECOMMENDATION IS NOT EVEN A GLASS OF WINE OVER DINNER?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Erin says SO IN CANADA, WE HAVE THE NATIONAL LOW RISK DRINKING GUIDELINES, WHICH PROVIDES DAILY AND WEEKLY LIMIT FOR BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. SO UNDER THESE GUIDELINES, WOMEN ARE ADVISED TO DRINK NO MORE THAN TWO DRINKS PER DAY OR TEN DRINKS PER WEEK, AND MEN ARE ADVISED TO DRINK NO MORE THAN THREE DRINKS PER DAY OR 15 DRINKS PER WEEK.

Steve says OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW UP ON THIS SOME MORE. FIRST WE HAVE A LITTLE EXCERPT FROM THE GLOBE AND MAIL HERE THAT WE WANT TO READ IN THE MEANTIME, SO SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD, LET'S BRING THIS UP, AND HERE WE GO...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Canada's drinking problem." The quote reads "A report by the Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction estimated that nearly a third of Canadian drinkers already consume more than the current weekly recommendations. Even by international standards, Canada falls on the boozy side. According to the World Health Organization, Canadians drink 8.9 litres of pure alcohol (about nine bags of milk worth) per capita each year -well above the global average of 6.2 litres."
Quoted from Wency Leung and Erin Anderssen, The Globe and Mail. January 30, 2021.

Steve says TIM STOCKWELL, HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS?

The caption changes to "Canadian drinking habits."

Tim says I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THESE NUMBERS. IN FACT, THEY UNDERESTIMATE THE EXTENT TO WHICH UNFORTUNATELY CANADIANS DON'T COMPLY WITH THE GUIDELINES. THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN WE MEASURE HOW MUCH PEOPLE DRINK AND THEY SELF-REPORT IN SURVEYS AND YOU COUNT UP ALL THE DRINKS THAT THEY REPORT, IT'S ABOUT A THIRD OF THE ALCOHOL KNOWN TO BE SOLD. SO THE PROBLEM WE'RE HAVING HERE IS THAT THESE ARE UNDERESTIMATES FROM SELF-REPORTS. IN FACT, WHEN WE CRUNCH THE NUMBERS, TAKING ACCOUNT OF UNDERREPORTING, ROUGHLY 75 percent OF ALL THE ALCOHOL CONSUMED IN CANADA IS DRUNK IN A WAY THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THOSE GUIDELINES.

Steve says HMM. ALL RIGHT. WELL, LESLIE, LET ME FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ON THIS. THE GUIDELINES THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR A DECADE, AND AGAIN THAT'S SORT OF TWO DRINKS A DAY ON AVERAGE FOR A WOMAN, THREE DRINKS ON AVERAGE A DAY FOR A MAN. DO YOU THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE OUT OF DATE TODAY?

Leslie says I THINK IT'S SO HARD TO DETERMINE THE RIGHT NUMBERS BECAUSE YOU'RE BALANCING THE RISK OF, YOU KNOW, CANCER AND OTHER HARMS THAT CAN HAPPEN WITH ALCOHOL WITH THE [indiscernible]. IF WE WERE REALLY JUST THINKING OF RISK, WE WOULD SAY ZERO. AND IF WE WERE BALANCING THAT WITH RELEVANCE, AND WHEN YOU COMPARE US TO OTHER COUNTRIES, WE ARE HIGH WITH OUR NUMBERS. SO IT'S VERY LIKELY THAT WE WILL PROBABLY CHANGE AND BEGIN TO MATCH SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES WHO HAVE LOWER GUIDELINES THAN US RIGHT NOW.

Steve says AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE GOT HARD STATS ON THIS, BECAUSE AFTER ALL, IT'S LESS THAN A YEAR, BUT IS IT YOUR IMPRESSION ANYWAY OR DO YOU HAVE STORIES FROM PATIENTS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE DRINKING MORE DURING THE PANDEMIC?

Leslie says MULTIPLE AND DIFFERENT STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT WE ARE DRINKING MORE DURING THE PANDEMIC AND ALCOHOL SALES ARE UP AS WELL. SO WE'RE RECOGNIZING THAT THERE'S BEEN AN ESCALATION, YES.

Steve says TIM, I SAW YOU NODDING YOUR HEAD AT THAT AS WELL. YOU'VE GOT IT CATEGORICALLY CONFIRMED THAT WE ARE DRINKING MORE THESE DAYS.

Tim says YEAH. I THINK LOOKING AT THE SALES DATA AS WELL AS SELF-REPORT DATA, BUT THE SALES CLEARLY SHOW, PARTICULARLY DURING THE FIRST LOCKDOWN, THE DATA SHOW HERE IN B.C. ABOUT A 7 percent INCREASE AND WE FOUND CONSISTENT INCREASES IN MOST PROVINCES, AND STRESS IS PART OF IT BUT IT'S ALSO THE CONVENIENCE OF ACCESS. FOR THE FIRST TIME, ALCOHOL IS NOW DELIVERED TO OUR DOORSTEPS IN MANY PARTS OF CANADA.

Steve says LET'S FOLLOW UP WITH THIS. I MEAN, BINGE DRINKING... I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY BINGE DRINKING IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

Tim says THERE ARE MULTIPLE ASPECTS TO THAT. CLEARLY THE RISKS FROM ALCOHOL ARE ABOUT SAFETY, YOU KNOW, RISKS OF ACCIDENTS AND INJURIES, BUT IT'S ALSO THE ASSAULTS ON OUR BODIES. SO THE KIND OF RISKS, THE MECHANISMS THAT ERIN WAS DESCRIBING ABOUT HOW ALCOHOL CAN CAUSE CANCER, IF YOU GET A SERIES OF ACUTE ASSAULTS ON YOUR DIGESTIVE SYSTEM, FOR EXAMPLE, THE BODY HAS TO WORK HARDER TO HEAL ITSELF, AND THE RISK OF IT FAILING TO REPLICATE ITSELF, OUR BODY IS REGENERATING ALL THE TIME, AND IF YOU'RE DAILY ASSAULTING IT IN A SORT OF BINGE-STYLE HIGH BLOOD/ALCOHOL CONCENTRATION, THE BODY HAS TO WORK HEARD AND THERE ARE GREATER RISKS OF ITS FAILING TO REPLICATE ITSELF AND TUMOURS DEVELOPING.

Steve says ERIN, I THINK THE POLICE DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB AT KEEPING THE STATISTICS ON ALCOHOL-RELATED TRAGEDIES ON OUR ROADS. WE PROBABLY HAVE A PRETTY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF ALCOHOL-CAUSED DEATHS ON THE ROADS. BUT I WONDER WHETHER THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY KEEPS THOSE KINDS OF STATISTICS FOR ALCOHOL-RELATED DEATHS IN HOSPITALS, FOR EXAMPLE.

Erin says TIM STOCKWELL'S GROUP ACTUALLY PUBLISHED A FASCINATING PAPER IN 2020 ON THIS EXACT TOPIC, SO MAYBE HE COULD SPEAK TO SOME OF THE RESULTS PUBLISHED IN HIS PAPER.

Steve says SURE, TIM. GO AHEAD.

Tim says WE DO HAVE A STUDY FOR THE CANADIAN SUBSTANCE USE COSTS AND HARMS STUDY. YOU CAN FIND ALL THE DATA ON OUR WEBSITE. THE TOTAL NUMBER OF DEATHS EACH YEAR RELATED TO ALCOHOL THAT WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED WITH THAT ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION WE ESTIMATE TO BE AT LEAST 18,000. THAT WAS IN THE LAST YEAR WE LOOKED AT THIS. IT MAY BE UP TO 19,000 OR 20,000 NOW. OF THOSE ABOUT A QUARTER WOULD BE CANCER-RELATED, MAYBE 7,000 OR 8,000 WOULD BE RELATED TO SOME KIND OF INJURY OR ACCIDENT.

The caption changes to "Socio-economic impact."

Steve says HMM. ALL RIGHT. WE ARE IN FEBRUARY, AND THE CANADIAN CANCER SOCIETY HAS DECIDED IN ITS WISDOM THAT IT HAS COME UP WITH A NEW IDEA FOR GETTING PEOPLE TO DRINK LESS, AND THAT IS THIS NOTION OF "DRY FEB," DRY FEBRUARY'S, DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL IN FEBRUARY. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SUGGESTING. WE'RE GOING TO ROLL A LITTLE BIT OF THEIR PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT TO THAT END. SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD?

An ad plays on screen.

It starts with a slate that reads "A message from Dry Feb, in support of Canadian Cancer Society.

In animation, as a cartoon walks down a sidewalk in winter and looks at bottles of alcohol on display in a store, a male announcer says WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY BEEN AN INTERESTING YEAR. LIKE MANY OF US, MAYBE YOU'VE BEEN DRINKING MORE THAN USUAL AND WANT TO TAKE A BREAK. WITH DRY FEB, YOU CAN.

A female announcer says WHY NOT CHALLENGE YOURSELF TO GO DRY IN FEB. TO HELP RAISE FUNDS FOR THE CANADIAN CANCER SOCIETY.

Another male announcer says SIGN UP. NOT ONLY WILL YOU BE HELPING PEOPLE AFFECTED BY CANCER.

Another female voice says YOU CAN ALSO REDUCE YOUR RISK OF CANCER.

The first man says GO AS DRY AS YOU'RE WILLING TO TRY THIS FEBRUARY. SIGN UP TODAY. IT'S EASIER THAN YOU THINK.

The clip ends.

Steve says DR. LESLIE BUCKLEY, ADMITTEDLY WE'RE NOT THAT FAR INTO FEBRUARY YET, BUT ANY SENSE ABOUT WHETHER THIS IS WORKING?

Leslie says I THINK IT'S HAVING AN IMPACT IN A FEW WAYS. ONE IS IN THE MEDIA. SO PEOPLE ARE PICKING UP ON THE ISSUE OF ALCOHOL, IT SORT OF HIGHLIGHTS OF ISSUE AND GETS US THINKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT AS A SOCIETY BUT ALSO AS INDIVIDUALS. AND IT'S SORT OF AN INVITATION TO SET A GOAL. WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT DRY FEB COMPARED TO WHAT HAPPENS IN SOME OTHER COUNTRIES AND DRY JAN IS USUALLY IT'S AN ABSOLUTE DRYNESS. BUT THIS ONE ALLOWS FOR YOUR OWN GOAL. WHAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF IT STICKS.

Steve says ERIN, ANY SENSE IN YOUR COMMUNITY OR IN YOUR WORLD ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THESE KINDS OF CAMPAIGNS ARE USEFUL?

Erin says I MEAN, I THINK THE APPROACH IS VERY INTERESTING. SOME OF OUR WORK HAS SHOWN THAT ABOUT 25 percent OF CANADIAN ADULTS WHO DRINK ALCOHOL ACTUALLY KNOW THAT CONSUMING ALCOHOL INCREASES THEIR RISK FOR CANCER, AND THIS LOW PUBLIC AWARENESS IN CANADA IS CONSISTENT INTERNATIONALLY IN THE EVIDENCE. SO I'M VERY HOPEFUL THAT CAMPAIGNS SUCH AS THE ONE THAT THE CANADIAN CANCER SOCIETY IS RUNNING WILL INCREASE THE PUBLIC AWARENESS OF THE LINK BETWEEN ALCOHOL AND CANCER.

Steve says TIM STOCKWELL, YOUR VIEW ON THE CAMPAIGN?

Tim says THERE'S BEEN GOOD WORK DONE ON THIS IN OTHER COUNTRIES AND PEOPLE REPORT FANTASTIC BENEFITS, EVEN IF THEY'RE JUST MODERATE DRINKERS. THE TENDENCY IS FOR PEOPLE WHO COMPLETE THE MONTH TO SAY THEY SLEEP BETTER, THEY EXPERIENCE LESS STRESS, THEY'RE TAKING MORE EXERCISE, THEY'RE SAVING MONEY. AND INTERESTINGLY, IT'S NOT JUST A ONE-OFF. THERE TENDS TO BE A CONSISTENT LONG-LASTING EFFECT WHERE THEY DRINK A LITTLE BIT LESS IN THE FOLLOWING MONTHS AND YEARS, WHICH REDUCES THEIR RISKS OF DISEASES.

Steve says TIM, YOU TALK ABOUT SAVING MONEY. LET ME JUST DO A QUICK FOLLOW-UP ON THAT. OF COURSE, I DON'T KNOW IF A STUDY HAS EVER BEEN DONE ON THE MONEY SAVED IN TERMS OF HEALTH CARE DOWN THE ROAD VERSUS THE MONEY THAT THE TREASURY LOSES IN THE SHORT RUN BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT, IN ONTARIO, FOR EXAMPLE, GOING TO THE LIQUOR CONTROL BOARD OF ONTARIO OR THE BEER STORE TO BUY. DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS ITSELF OUT?

Tim says YES, WE DO, ACTUALLY. IN FACT, WITH A COLLEAGUE WE PUBLISHED STATS ON THAT LAST YEAR FOR EACH JURISDICTION. ON AVERAGE ACROSS THE WHOLE OF CANADA, THE COSTS EXCEED THE REVENUE TAKEN. SO THE REVENUE CUT IS ABOUT 75 percent OF THE COSTS OF HEALTH CARE, POLICE, AND LOST PRODUCTIVITY. AND ONTARIO IS NO EXCEPTION, AND THERE'S NO SINGLE JURISDICTION IN CANADA THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN ALCOHOL DEFICIT.

Steve says SO JUST SO I'M SUPER CLEAR ON THIS, BECAUSE WE HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME AROUND BUDGET TIME. WE HEAR THAT IT'S GOOD THAT PEOPLE IMBIBE BECAUSE THAT MONEY GOES INTO THE TREASURY TO PAY FOR ROADS AND SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT IF EVERYBODY STOPPED DRINKING TOMORROW, WE HAD ACTUALLY BE AHEAD WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY?

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Tim says ABSOLUTELY. THERE WOULD BE A BIT OF A SHOCK TO THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, THE STRUCTURE OF OUR ECONOMY BECAUSE ALCOHOL IS TIED UP WITH A LOT OF THINGS, BUT JUST STRICTLY THE BOTTOM LINE WE'D BE AHEAD. A LOT MORE WOULD BE SAVED THAN WOULD BE LOST FROM THE COSTS OF RUNNING HOSPITALS AND MAKING THE ROADS SAFE AND THERE WOULD BE LESS PRESSURE ON THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, MORE PRODUCTIVITY. THAT WOULD BE WAY AHEAD THAN THE REVENUE THAT WE'D LOSE.

Steve says ALL RIGHT. ERIN, PICK UP THE STORY FROM THERE BECAUSE, ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE THIS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE CANCER SOCIETY, AND THAT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD. BUT IT IS COMPETING AGAINST BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN ADVERTISEMENTS, IN SPONSORING EVENTS, IN ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT OBVIOUSLY ENCOURAGE US TO DRINK MORE. SO HOW DO YOU LIKE ITS CHANCES?

Erin says ALCOHOL ADVERTISING IN THIS COUNTRY IS PERVASIVE. ANYONE WHO HAS WATCHED "HOCKEY NIGHT IN CANADA" CAN ATTEST TO THAT. AND THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT ALCOHOL ADVERTISING INFLUENCES SOCIETAL NORMS AS WELL AS BELIEFS AND PERCEPTIONS ABOUT ALCOHOL, PARTICULARLY AMONG ADOLESCENTS AND YOUNG ADULTS. AND AS YOU SAID, REPORTS SHOW THAT THE ALCOHOL INDUSTRY SPENDS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS EVERY YEAR ON ADVERTISING, AND THIS SPEND IS NOW LARGELY SPENT ON NEW MEDIA, SO CELEBRITY ENDORSEMENTS, EVENT AND SPORT SPONSORSHIP, AS WELL AS SOCIAL AND ONLINE MEDIA. AND THE INTENT OF THIS TYPE OF ADVERTISING IS TO INTERACT AND DEVELOP POSITIVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH CURRENT AND FUTURE CONSUMERS. JUST TO UNDERSCORE THE IMPORTANT ROLE THAT ALCOHOL ADVERTISING PLAYS IN DRIVING ALCOHOL USE, THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION HAS IDENTIFIED THREE MOST COST EFFECTIVE POLICIES FOR REDUCING ALCOHOL USE AND RELATED HARMS, AND ONE OF THOSE THREE IS TO BAN OR COMPREHENSIVELY RESTRICT ALCOHOL ADVERTISING.

Steve says OKAY. BAN AND RESTRICT ADVERTISING. LET ME GO EVEN FURTHER. I WELL REMEMBER THE TIME IN THIS PROVINCE WHEN YOU COULDN'T BUY A BEER AT A BASEBALL GAME. TODAY WE HAVE A DIFFERENT PROBLEM. YOU CAN'T GO TO A BASEBALL GAME AT ALL. BUT LET'S ASSUME THAT WHEN BASEBALL COMES BACK, YOU KNOW, IT... LABATT'S USED TO OWN THE BLUE JAYS, FOR EXAMPLE, A BREWERY OWNED THE BASEBALL TEAM. CAN YOU IMAGINE ANYBODY TURNING THE CLOCK BACK AND SAYING: NO MORE BEER SALES AT BALL GAMES, NO MORE BEER SALES AT HOCKEY GAMES. I MEAN, IS THAT REASONABLE?

Erin says I MEAN, IN CANADA, ALCOHOL IS SUCH A PART OF OUR CULTURE, OUR DAILY FABRIC, IT'S COMPLETELY NORMALIZED IN OUR EVERYDAY LIVES. SO I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DO SOMETHING THAT EXTREME WHERE WE'RE NOT ALLOWING ALCOHOL AT ENTERTAINMENT, AT OUR EVENTS. ONE POTENTIAL SORT OF FIRST STEP IS TO MORE BROADLY PROMOTE CANADA'S LOW-RISK DRINKING GUIDELINES, TO PROMOTE CONSUMING ALCOHOL IN MODERATION OR SAFER LEVELS OF RISK.

Steve says OKAY, THAT'S AN INTERESTING APPROACH. SO LESLIE BUCKLEY, IS IT BETTER TO JUST ARM YOUR PATIENTS AND THE BROADER POPULATION WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT, IF THEY DRINK TOO MUCH, THEY COULD BE ENCOURAGING CANCER? OR BETTER TO HAVE GOVERNMENTS COME IN AND LEGISLATE AN END TO, FOR EXAMPLE, ALCOHOL SALES AT BASEBALL STADIUMS?

Leslie says THE MOST EFFECTIVE OPTION IS THE LATTER. SO WE KNOW THAT THE MOST POWERFUL LEVER IS ACCESSIBILITY, AND THAT INCLUDES LOCATIONS YOU CAN PURCHASE ALCOHOL, HOURS YOU CAN PURCHASE ALCOHOL, AND PRICE. SO AS MUCH AS THE OTHER FACTORS MAY BE HELPFUL AS WELL IN TERMS OF TRYING TO REDUCE AND IMPROVING EDUCATION, WE KNOW THAT REALLY IN THE END NOTHING COMPETES WITH THOSE LEVERS.

Steve says OKAY. TIM STOCKWELL, LET ME GET YOU TO FOLLOW UP. A PROHIBITION ON ALCOHOL SALES AT ALL SPORTING EVENTS IN THE COUNTRY? WHAT POLITICIAN IS GOING TO GO TO THE ELECTORATE WITH THAT?

Tim says THEY WON'T. AT THIS STAGE, I THINK WE NEED BOTH EDUCATION AND REGULATORY APPROACHES. WE NEED LABELS ON ALCOHOL CONTAINERS WARNING OF CANCER RISK AND PROMOTING GUIDELINES IN ORDER TO MAKE PEOPLE REALIZE THIS MATTERS. WE CAN'T JUST SUDDENLY IMPOSE HEAVY RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT PEOPLE ARE USED TO DOING WITHOUT THEM UNDERSTANDING THE REASON. SO ALL OF THE EFFECT... YOU KNOW, WE NEED MINIMUM PRICES TO BE INCREASED. THAT'S THE MOST EFFECTIVE THING THAT COULD BE DONE. WE NEED TO LOOK AT CONVENIENCE OF ACCESS. BUT WE NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE THE REASONS FOR WHY WE'RE DOING THIS BECAUSE 75 percent OF THEM ARE NOT AWARE ALCOHOL IS A CARCINOGEN. SO WE HAVE TO WORK HARD ON BOTH FRONTS.

Steve says I HATE TO ADMIT TO THIS. BUT I DO REMEMBER THE DAYS GOING TO A TI-CAT GAME WHEN SALES WERE PROHIBITED, I MEAN THERE WAS NO ALCOHOL SALES. PEOPLE SNUCK IT IN. PEOPLE SNUCK MICKEYS IN.

Tim says YEAH.

Steve says PEOPLE WANT TO DRINK. I MEAN, IS THIS REALLY... IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO LEGISLATE THIS OUT OF EXISTENCE?

Tim says WELL, LOOK, THERE ARE INTERMEDIATE STRATEGIES. I USED TO FOLLOW CRICKET. PROBABLY A LOT OF PEOPLE WATCHING HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT SPORT IS OR WHAT THE RULES ARE. BUT WHEN I LIVED IN AUSTRALIA, YOU COULD ONLY BUY A LIMITED AMOUNT OF BEER AND YOU CAN ONLY HAVE IT SERVED IN A PLASTIC GLASS SO THERE WOULD BE FEWER GLASS-RELATED INJURIES, YOU KNOW, THERE WOULDN'T BE BROKEN GLASS, PEOPLE WOULDN'T BE USING AS WEAPONS. AND YOU CAN RESTRICT THE NUMBER OF DRINKS PEOPLE CAN BUY. SO THERE ARE INTERMEDIATE STRATEGIES THAT WORK.

Steve says LESLIE, LET ME FOLLOW UP ON THE LABELING ISSUE, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, THE LABELS, FOR EXAMPLE, ON CIGARETTES, THE SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNINGS, THOSE PICTURES HAVE BECOME INCREASINGLY GRUESOME OVER THE YEARS AND I GUESS THE THINKING IS THEY HAVE ENCOURAGED SOME PEOPLE NOT TO SMOKE. DO YOU THINK WE NEED THOSE KIND OF STARK LABELS ON ALCOHOL?

Leslie says I THINK THAT WE SHOULD LOOK TO SMOKING CESSATION, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF MODELS THAT WILL WORK, BECAUSE IT WAS INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE. YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN TRANSFER THAT EFFECTIVENESS TO ALCOHOL, WE'D HAVE TO STUDY IT AGAIN BECAUSE WE CAN'T ASSUME THAT IT WOULD WORK IN THE SAME WELL WITH THE GRUESOME PHOTOS. BUT TO START WITH LABELS THAT CLEARLY IDENTIFY THE RISKS, THINK ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE YOU JUST SUGGESTED WITH A STRONGER VISUAL, GETTING RID OF ALL MARKETING ON ALCOHOL, I THINK WE WOULD BE MOVING OURSELVES AHEAD.

Steve says ERIN, WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON INCREASINGLY STARK LABELLING ON ALCOHOL?

Erin says SO, ACTUALLY, TIM AND I COLLABORATED WITH THE GOVERNMENT IN YUKON AND NORTHWEST TERRITORIES TO EXPERIMENTALLY TEST LARGE, BRIGHT YELLOW ALCOHOL LABELS WITH THREE ROTATING MESSAGES, A CANCER WARNING, CANADA'S LOW-RISK DRINKING GUIDELINES, AND THE NUMBER OF STANDARD DRINKS IN AN ALCOHOL CONTAINER. AND THESE LABELS WERE APPLIED TO ALL ALCOHOL CONTAINERS SOLD IN THE LIQUOR STORE IN WHITEHORSE. AND AFTER THE 8-MONTH INTERVENTION PERIOD, OUR RESULTS SHOWED THAT CONSUMERS AT OUR INTERNATIONAL SITE HAD HIGHER ODDS OF KNOWING THE LINK BETWEEN ALCOHOL AND CANCER AND CANADA'S LOW-RISK DRINKING GUIDELINES, AND COMPARED TO OUR COMPARISON SITE THAT WASN'T EXPOSED TO THE LABELS, AND USING OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT SALES DATA, WE OBSERVED THAT ALCOHOL SALES AT OUR INTERVENTION SITE WERE REDUCED BY 6 percent RELATIVE TO TWO SEPARATE CONTROL SITES WITHOUT THE LABELS. SO THE RESULTS OVERWHELMINGLY SHOW THAT WELL-DESIGNED ALCOHOL LABELS CAN SUPPORT CONSUMERS IN MAKING MORE INFORMED AND SAFER ALCOHOL CHOICES, SIMILAR TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF TOBACCO LABELS.

Steve says TIM, AGAIN I SEE YOU NODDING. YOU'RE IN FAVOUR OF TOUGHER LABELING AND THAT TYPE OF THING?

Tim says WELL, SOME LABELLING. I THINK THE ABSENCE OF IT SIGNALS THIS DOESN'T MATTER. I MEAN, I THINK PEOPLE MUST THINK SUBCONSCIOUSLY, WELL, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD WARN ME IF THIS WERE A SERIOUS HEALTH RISK. ALCOHOL GETS A FREE RIDE ON SO MANY LEVELS. PRODUCERS DON'T HAVE TO SAY HOW MANY CALORIES ARE IN ALCOHOL, WHICH IS OUTRAGEOUS. SO HERE IS A GRADE ONE CARCINOGEN THAT WE KNOW ABOUT AND THE GOVERNMENT IS IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING IT AND DISTRIBUTING IT FOR SALE, AND THE LEAST IT COULD DO IS TO INFORM ITS CITIZENS OF THE RISKS OF THAT, AND THEY COULD ACTUALLY BE EXPOSED TO LITIGATION, THERE COULD BE CIVIL LAWSUITS LIKE THERE HAVE BEEN WITH ALCOHOL... THE TOBACCO MANUFACTURERS. A FAILURE, A DUTY OF CARE TO WARN CITIZENS AND THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW.

Steve says I'M SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS AND LISTENING ON PODCAST WHO CAN REMEMBER, AND YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO GO BACK, GOSH, 30 YEARS AGO? MAYBE MORE. WHEN CIGARETTE ADVERTISING WAS LEGAL AND CIGARETTE COMPANIES COULD SPONSOR SPORTING EVENTS AND, YOU KNOW, TENNIS CHAMPIONSHIPS AND AUTO RACING AND THAT KIND OF THING. AND THEN IT ALL GOT BANNED. AND I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK... AND I'LL GET THE THREE OF YOU ON THIS... WHETHER YOU THINK THAT STEP IS NECESSARY FOR ALCOHOL? DO WE NEED TO BAN ADVERTISING? DO WE NEED TO BAN THE SPONSORSHIP OF PUBLIC EVENTS? DR. BUCKLEY, YOU GO FIRST ON THAT.

Leslie says I WOULD AGREE WITH A BAN. I DO HAVE A DISTANT MEMORY OF THOSE DAYS, AND TO PICK UP ON TIM'S POINT ABOUT THE SUBCONSCIOUS. THE SUBCONSCIOUS PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, DECISION-MAKING AROUND ALCOHOL BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT SOMEONE'S PERCEPTION OF THE HARM OF A SUBSTANCE REALLY WILL, YOU KNOW, FACTOR IN ON HOW MUCH THEY CONSUME. SO IF SOCIETY IS ALLOWING ADVERTISING AND IT SEEMS JUST GREAT, WELL, THAT'S GOING TO CREEP INTO OUR SUBCONSCIOUS AND AFFECT OUR BEHAVIOUR.

Steve says ERIN, I DO REMEMBER AT THE TIME PEOPLE WERE SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT? THIS IS GOING TO BE THE END OF SPORTS. THIS WILL BE THE END OF AUTO RACING, THIS WILL BE THE END OF TENNIS. IF YOU TAKE AWAY THIS SPONSORSHIP MONEY, THEY WILL ALL FAIL. THEY DIDN'T FAIL, OBVIOUSLY. BUT IS IT APPROPRIATE TO BAN THE ADVERTISING OF WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY A LEGALLY SOLD PRODUCT IN THE COUNTRY?

Erin says WELL, I MEAN, STICKING WITH THE EVIDENCE, IT IS WELL-ESTABLISHED THAT ALCOHOL ADVERTISING AND MARKETING INCREASES PER CAPITA ALCOHOL USE AND HARM. SO IF THAT IS OUR PRIORITY, TO REDUCE CONSUMPTION AND HARM, THEN I THINK WE DO HAVE TO CONSIDER A BAN OR AT LEAST SOME RESTRICTIONS OR STRONGER RESTRICTIONS ON ALCOHOL ADVERTISING.

Steve says TIM, HOW ABOUT YOU? ADVERTISING AND SPONSORSHIP... WHERE ARE YOU ON THAT?

Tim says I'M IN AGREEMENT. I THINK PROBABLY ALL OF THE LISTENERS, IF YOU ASKED THEM, "DOES ADVERTISING AFFECT YOU?" MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY NO. "NO, I'M NOT AFFECTED BY ADVERTISING." IT'S THE SUBCONSCIOUS EFFECT. THERE HAVE BEEN STUDIES SHOWING THAT 5-YEAR-OLD CHILDREN, IF YOU SHOW THEM AN IMAGE OF THEIR FAVOURITE SPORTING EVENTS AND BLANKED OUT ADVERTISING BILLBOARDS, THEY COULD FILL THEM IN AND DRAW PICTURES OF WHETHER IT'S CIGARETTE CARTONS OR BEER CONTAINERS, WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS. SO THE SUBCONSCIOUS EFFECT ON OUR, YOU KNOW, DESIRE TO CONSUME ALCOHOL STARTS AT A VERY EARLY AGE. AND IT WOULDN'T BE A MULTIBILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY IF IT DIDN'T WORK. SO, YEAH, IT'S VERY EFFECTIVE AT INCREASING OUR CONSUMPTION AND OUR RISK OF CANCER AS A RESULT.

Steve says I'M GOING TO ASK ERIN AND LESLIE A VERY MISCHIEVOUS QUESTION HERE. YOU TWO ARE SORT OF PUBLIC SERVANTS AND ARE PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO, AND THEREFORE I WANT TO ASK YOU WHETHER YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO'S EFFORTS TO LIBERALIZE THE SALE OF ALCOHOL DURING THIS PANDEMIC, CURBSIDE DELIVERY AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, WHAT YOU THINK THE IMPACT OF THAT HAS BEEN? ERIN, YOU FIRST.

Erin says WELL, THE EVIDENCE, THE WORK THAT TIM IS DOING AND SOME WORK THAT OUR TEAM IS DOING, HAS SHOWN THAT ALCOHOL SALES HAVE INCREASED BY ABOUT 7 percent IN CANADA DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND THERE IS VERY STRONG EVIDENCE SHOWING THAT INCREASING THE PHYSICAL AVAILABILITY OF ALCOHOL IS ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED SALES AND USE.

Steve says LESLIE BUCKLEY, YOUR VIEW?

Leslie says I THINK IT'S COMPLICATED WITH GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE OFTEN RESPONDING TO THE PUBLIC OR WHAT THEY BELIEVE THE PUBLIC THINKS. THIS TREND HAS BEEN GOING ON, YOU KNOW, EVEN PRIOR TO THIS GOVERNMENT. SO IT'S NOT NEW. IT'S CONCERNING TO EVERYBODY WHO'S WORKING IN OUR FIELD. AND MAYBE A STRATEGY IS TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC MORE SO THAT THEY WILL BE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND MAYBE SUPPORT DIFFERENT POLICIES THAT THE GOVERNMENTS MIGHT CONSIDER.

Steve says IN WHICH CASE, IF YOU ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOUR PATIENTS, HOW DO YOU ADVISE THEM ON, IF THEY CAN'T GO COLD TURKEY ALL AT ONCE, HOW DO YOU ADVISE THEM TO DRINK LESS?

Leslie says THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IS JUST WHETHER IT'S SAFE. SO DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH YOU'RE DRINKING. IF YOU'RE DRINKING A LOT, FOR MANY YEARS, YOU SHOULD CONNECT WITH YOUR FAMILY DOCTOR BEFORE YOU TRY TO STOP OR SLOW DOWN. IF YOU WANTED TO SLOW DOWN, THE BEST APPROACH IS THE NUMBERS. NUMBERS DON'T LIE, AND IT'S A GREAT WAY TO EVEN JUST COUNTING HELPS PEOPLE REDUCE. YOU CAN ALTERNATE YOUR DRINKS. SO IF YOU HAVE ONE DRINK THAT HAS ALCOHOL IN IT, YOUR NEXT DRINK IS A SODA OR SODA WATER, JUST GIVES YOU TIME UNTIL YOUR NEXT DRINK AND, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA BEING THAT YOU WOULD CONSUME LESS OVER THE NIGHT. SO THOSE ARE A COUPLE OF TIPS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FIND USEFUL.

The caption changes to "Solutions."

Steve says ERIN, IF YOU'RE A MODERATE DRINKER, IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO GO COLD TURKEY AND STOP DRINKING AND EMBRACE THIS DRY FEB CAMPAIGN?

Erin says I ECHO WHAT DR. BUCKLEY JUST DISCUSSED. CANADA'S LOW DRINKING GUIDELINES PROVIDE USEFUL TIPS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING TO CUT DOWN ON THEIR DRINKING.

Steve says NOW, I GATHER, TIM, WE'RE GOING TO SEE NEW GUIDELINES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE PROVINCES... WHEN IS IT?... NEXT YEAR, I GUESS. I MEAN, ON THE CHANCE SOMEBODY IS WATCHING RIGHT NOW, WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE THEM ABOUT WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE GUIDELINES GO?

Tim says I'M ACTUALLY ON THE PANEL, AS IS ERIN, WORKING OUT WHAT THE CURRENT STATE OF KNOWLEDGE IS AND WHAT THE BEST ADVICE IS, AND I THINK THE CAUTIOUS THING TO SAY NOW IS TO DRINK WITHIN THE PRESENT GUIDELINES, DEFINITELY NOT ABOVE THEM. THEY'RE LIKELY TO GO DOWN, BECAUSE WE KNOW MORE ABOUT THE CANCER RISK, HENCE WE HAVE STRONGER REASONS TO DOUBT THAT THERE ARE ANY HEALTH BENEFITS. THE PREVIOUS GUIDELINES BALANCE ONE AGAINST THE OTHER. THEY SAY IF YOU DRINK WITHIN THESE LEVELS, THE RISK OF HARM IS BALANCED BY YOUR LIKELIHOOD OF GETTING BENEFIT. WELL, THERE MAY NOT BE ANY BENEFIT, AND THE RISKS SEEM TO BE WORSE THAN WE PREVIOUSLY REALIZED. SO THE MORE YOU DRINK... YOU KNOW, LESS IS GOOD IS PROBABLY THE RIGHT ANSWER.

Steve says HMM. WE OFTEN SAY THAT IN JOURNALISM, "LESS IS MORE." WE'RE LESS THAN TWO MINUTES TO GO HERE AND, ERIN, LET ME PUT THIS TO YOU. I IMAGINE THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WATCHING US FOR THE LAST HALF AN HOUR WHO SAY, LOOK IT, YOU'VE GOT TO DIE OF SOMETHING AND, YOU KNOW, IF THE AVERAGE AGE LIFE EXPECTANCY FOR MEN THESE DAYS IS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS IT, 80 OR 81 OR 82 OR 83 NOW, AND IF I END UP DYING AT 79 OR 80 INSTEAD OF 81, 82, 83 AND I GET TO HAVE A FEW NIPS ALONG THE WAY, THAT'S A PRICE I'M CONTENT TO PAY. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THAT PERSON?

Erin says UM, YEAH. I MEAN, PEOPLE ENJOY DRINKING. TALKING ABOUT THE RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH DRINKING IS NOT A POPULAR TOPIC AT A DINNER PARTY. I THINK WHAT I WOULD TELL PEOPLE IS THAT CANADA HAS THE LOW-RISK DRINKING GUIDELINES WHICH PROVIDE LIMITS FOR SAFER ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION, AND DRINKING WITHIN THOSE GUIDELINES WILL SUPPORT IN LOWERING YOUR RISK FOR ANY TYPES OF ALCOHOL-RELATED HARMS.

Steve says TIM, LAST WORD TO YOU. WHAT'S THE POINT OF LIVING TO 85 IF YOU CAN NEVER HAVE A SCOTCH AND SODA?

Tim says NO ONE IS SAYING YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ONE. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'D LOVE TO KNOW HOW MANY CANADIANS WOULD SAY THEY WOULD GIVE UP SIX MONTHS OF THEIR LIFE SPAN OR WOULD THEY BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP FIVE OR TEN YEARS. EXCEEDING THE GUIDELINES WILL NOT... IF YOU DO THAT CONSISTENTLY. I WONDER IF THAT MATTERS TO PEOPLE. SO I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE.

The caption changes to "Producer: Preeti Bhuyan, @preetibhuyan; Student Intern: Mia Maaytah."

Steve says YOU HAVE ALL EDUCATED US TERRIFICALLY TONIGHT HERE ON TVO. THANKS TO TIM STOCKWELL, ERIN HOBIN, AND DR. LESLIE BUCKLEY . STAY SAFE OUT THERE, EVERYBODY, AND, OH, I ASSUME... CAN I SEE A SHOW OF HANDS? WHO'S DOING DRY FEB? NONE OF YOU. THAT'S HILARIOUS. OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU ANYWAY FOR SHOWING UP ON TVO TONIGHT. APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.

Watch: Could Your Cocktail Give You Cancer?