Transcript: Does Ontario Need a New Blue Party? | Nov 16, 2020

Steve stands in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a gray suit, lilac shirt, and purple tie.

A wall screen behind him reads "The Agenda, with Steve Paikin."

Steve says JUST BEFORE WE SHOW YOU THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEW WITH THE FOUNDERS OF THE NEW BLUE PARTY OF ONTARIO, WE WANTED TO ALERT YOU TO THE FACT THAT JIM KARAHALIOS DOES MAKE SEVERAL SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THE ONTARIO PC PARTY IN THE INTERVIEW. THE ALLEGATIONS HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED IN COURT, WHERE KARAHALIOS IS SUING THE PC PARTY IN A CASE THAT'S STILL ACTIVE. AND WITH THAT, HERE NOW, THE INTERVIEW.

In a clip, Steve sits in the studio.

A caption reads "Does Ontario need a new blue party? @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says FORMER PARTY STALWARTS JIM AND BELINDA KARAHALIOS ARE BECOMING INCREASINGLY ESTRANGED FROM THE ONTARIO PC PARTY. AND THEY THINK THEY'RE NOT ALONE. JIM RAN FOR THE PARTY PRESIDENCY IN 2018 AND THINKS HE WAS DENIED A VICTORY BECAUSE OF INTERNAL PARTY SHENANIGANS. HE SUED THE PARTY OVER IT. BELINDA WAS ELECTED IN 2018 AS THE PC MPP FOR CAMBRIDGE BUT HAS PARTED WAYS WITH THEM SINCE. THEY'VE DECIDED TO START A NEW CONSERVATIVE PARTY CALLED THE NEW BLUE PARTY OF ONTARIO. AND FROM CAMBRIDGE, ONTARIO, THERE ARE JIM KARAHALIOS AND BELINDA KARAHALIOS, INDEPENDENT MPP FOR CAMBRIDGE, THE CO-FOUNDERS OF THE NEW BLUE PARTY.

Jim and Belinda sit together elsewhere, with a white curtain behind. Jim is in his fifties, clean-shaven and bald. He's wearing a blue shirt and a spotted blue tie. Belinda is in her forties, with shoulder-length curly brown hair. She's wearing a black blazer over a printed shirt.

Steve continues IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU TWO BACK ON TVO. I THINK WE'VE HAD EACH OF YOU ON INDIVIDUALLY BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME TOGETHER. SO WE KEEP IT ALL IN THE FAMILY TONIGHT. THANKS FOR JOINING US.

Belinda says THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

Steve says NOT AT ALL. BELINDA, THERE WAS A RATHER SIGNIFICANT VOTE THIS PAST SUMMER IN WHICH THE FORD GOVERNMENT EXPECTED YOU TO VOTE ON FINAL READING WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND FOR REASONS WHICH I PRESUME YOU'RE GOING TO TELL US, YOU DECIDED YOU COULDN'T. AND WHEN YOU COULDN'T, MR. FORD KICKED YOU OUT OF THE CAUCUS. SO LET'S GET THAT BACKGROUND IN PLACE. WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE PC PARTY THAT HAS GOT YOU GUYS NOW POLLS APART.

The caption changes to "Belinda Karahalios. Independent MPP, Cambridge."
Then, it changes again to "Two disillusioned tories."

Belinda says SO THE PC PARTY TABLED BILL 195 IN JULY OF THIS YEAR. AND THIS BILL WAS TO END THE STATE OF EMERGENCY IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, AT THE SAME TIME IT MAINTAINED EMERGENCY POWERS FOR THE GOVERNMENT, BUT WITHOUT ANY TYPE OF DEBATE OR DISCUSSION WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE, AN UNELECTED MEMBER... THIS IS A COMPLETE OVERREACH AND IT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE FOR ANY GOVERNMENT OF ANY POLITICAL STRIPES TO BE TAKING AVAIL OF THIS NATURE.

Steve says BELINDA, DID YOU EXPECT TO BE THROWN OUT OF THE PARTY FOR VOTING AGAINST IT ON THIRD READING?

Belinda says I DIDN'T EXPECT TO BE THROWN OUT OF THE PARTY FOR THAT, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THE PCs HAD CAMPAIGNED ON NOT WHIPPING VOTES. THIS WASN'T A BUDGET BILL. THIS WASN'T A CONFIDENCE MOTION OR EVEN A CAMPAIGN PROMISE FOR THAT MATTER. AT THE VERY LEAST I THINK THE EXPECTATION WAS TO GET REMOVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY ASSISTED ROLL BECAUSE THAT WAS [indiscernible] WHICH I WAS THE PA FOR. BUT GETTING KICKED OUT OF THE PARTY SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN A BIT OF AN OVERREACH.

Steve says JIM, LET'S DO A BIT OF A BACKGROUND ON YOUR SITUATION. YOU ARE THE GUY, WE SHOULD REMIND PEOPLE, THAT HEADED THE AXE THE TAX CAMPAIGN. WHEN THE LEADERSHIP CHANGED FROM PATRICK BROWN TO DOUG FORD, THE PARTY EMBRACED YOUR POSITION. YOU RAN FOR PARTY PRESIDENT, AS WE SUGGESTED. YOU THINK THEY RIGGED THE VOTE AGAINST YOU. AND THEY TWEETED... EXCUSE ME, YOU TWEETED THIS THE OTHER DAY...

A screenshot of Jim's twitter feed pops up on screen.

Steve reads "WHAT THE FORD NATION GOVERNMENT GIVES WITH ONE HAND IT TAKES AWAY WITH ANOTHER. ON TWITTER HE DEFENDS THE POPPY. AS PREMIER, HE STRIPS AWAY THE DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES, RIGHTS, AND CIVIL LIBERTIES THAT THE POPPY REPRESENTS AND THAT OUR VETERANS FOUGHT AND DIED OVER."

He says OKAY, JIM. WHAT IS YOUR CONCERN WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF THE PC PARTY OF ONTARIO?

The caption changes to "Jim Karahalios. The New Blue Party of Ontario."

Jim says WELL, WHAT WE'RE WATCHING WITH THE PC GOVERNMENT, STEVE, IS A REFLECTION OF HOW THEY RUN THE PARTY. REMEMBER, IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT THE AXE THE CARBON TAX CAMPAIGN THREE-PLUS YEARS AGO, IT WAS ALSO BALLOT STUFFING IN NOMINATIONS, THE TOP-DOWN NATURE OF THE PARTY. THEY'RE REALLY DRIVING THEIR BASE AND THEIR PC VOTERS AWAY. AND INITIALLY THEY SUED ME IN 2017 TO SILENCE ME UNDER A PREVIOUS LEADER. THEN DOUG FORD WON, BASICALLY ADOPTING EVERYTHING WE'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR AND TELLING THE MEMBERS WE'RE GOING TO AXE THE CARBON TAX, WE'RE GOING TO CLEAN UP THE WAY WE RUN ELECTIONS IN THIS PARTY, AND THEN I RAN IN 2018 AT A CONVENTION WHERE THEY PHOTOCOPIED BALLOTS AND I SPENT MONEY OBVIOUSLY RUNNING FOR PARTY PRESIDENT, AND THE CRACKS REALLY WERE THERE. BECAUSE AFTER THAT CONVENTION, PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO SEE PREMIER FORD'S ALL RHETORIC. THE WAY HE GOVERNS THE PARTY AND HE GOVERNS ONTARIO IS THE EXACT SAME WAY THE PARTY SAID THEY WOULD DO IT UNDER THE PRIOR LEADER. THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE. SO IT'S ONE THING TO STATE RHETORIC ON TWITTER STEVE. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE DOING, IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING.

Steve says LET ME FOLLOW UP WITH THIS, JIM. OBVIOUSLY UP UNTIL NOW YOU HAVE BEEN CONTENT TO TRY TO REFORM THE PC PARTY FROM WITHIN. YOU'VE NOW COME TO THE CONCLUSION, EVIDENTLY, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE, AND YOU WANT TO START YOUR OWN PARTY. WHY DID YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION?

Jim says THERE ARE NO DEMOCRATIC MECHANISMS LEFT OVER IN THE PC PARTY. THERE'S NO NOMINATIONS, THERE'S NO FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS AT A CONVENTION. THEY'RE GOING TO APPOINT ALL THEIR CANDIDATES. THERE'S NO POLICY PROCESS. IF YOU'RE A GRASS ROOTS MEMBER ON A RIDING ASSOCIATION, YOU WANT TO RUN A CANDIDATE OR RUN YOURSELF OR RUN IN A CONVENTION FOR AN EXECUTIVE POSITION, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED. SO THERE'S NO DEMOCRATIC MECHANISMS IN A CORRUPT PARTY TO WORK IT FROM THE INSIDE. IT GIVES US AND THOUSANDS OF OTHERS ACROSS ONTARIO NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO START A NEW BLUE PARTY.

Steve says I GUESS AT THIS POINT I SHOULD JUST SAY, BECAUSE I THINK OUR LAWYER HERE AT TVO WOULD WANT ME TO, THESE ARE JIM KARAHALIOS' VIEWS. WE ARE NOT ENDORSING THEM BY PUTTING YOU ON THE AIR, BECAUSE FRANKLY I DON'T WANT YOUR PARTY SUING US. BELINDA, LET ME GET YOU TO TELL THE STORY THERE. GIVE US AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE KINDS OF... I MEAN, STARTING A NEW PARTY FROM SCRATCH IS A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING. SINCE YOU MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT, WHAT HAVE YOU BASICALLY BEEN DOING?

The caption changes to "Belinda Karahalios, @karahaliosPC."
Then, it changes again to "An enormous undertaking."

Belinda says INITIALLY IT WAS GETTING THE NAME OF THE PARTY. AFTER I GOT KICKED OUT OF THE CAUCUS IN JULY, WE HAD AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF EMAILS AND CALLS FROM PEOPLE ALL ACROSS ONTARIO SAYING PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP. HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT STARTING A NEW PARTY? PLEASE START A NEW PARTY. SO IT WAS A DISCUSSION JIM AND I STARTED TO HAVE AT THAT POINT SAYING THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO UNDERTAKE. SO WE LOOKED INTO... FIRST THING'S FIRST, GETTING THE PARTY NAME. A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY. THERE WAS A BLUE PARTY BACK IN THE 1800s THAT MERGED WITH THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE PARTY, AND THIS PARTY IS NOT THAT PARTY. THAT BLUE PARTY, IT'S THE NEW BLUE PARTY, BUT IT HAS THAT HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. AND BEFORE THE ESTABLISHMENT PARTIES CURRENTLY IN THE ONTARIO LEGISLATURE ARE ALL ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM. THEY ALL AGREE ON THE SAME THINGS. THEIR POLICIES ARE VERY SIMILAR. AND THERE IS CURRENTLY NOTHING OR NO PARTY THAT IS FOR THOSE WHO ARE CENTRE RIGHT. AND THE NEW BLUE PARTY IS THAT ALTERNATIVE FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

Steve says HAVE YOU TAKEN THE STEP OF GETTING THE GOOD HOUSEKEEPING SEAL OF APPROVAL FROM ELECTIONS ONTARIO?

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live, YouTube."

Belinda says SO WE DID... WE EXCEEDED, ACTUALLY, THE NUMBER OF ENDORSEMENT SIGNATURES REQUIRED, SO A THOUSAND THAT ARE REQUIRED. I THINK IT WAS 2500 THAT WE RECEIVED, MAYBE MORE THAN THAT. SO THOSE HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO ELECTIONS ONTARIO. THEY'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THOSE AND WE SHOULD HEAR BACK I THINK BY THE END OF DECEMBER.

Steve says JIM, ARE YOU ABLE TO DO THINGS LIKE CREATE RIDING ASSOCIATIONS OR RAISE MONEY YET?

Jim says NO, STEVE. UNDER ELECTION ONTARIO LAW, YOU HAVE TO BE A REGISTERED PARTY, BUT WE CAN TALK TO PEOPLE AND WE'VE ALREADY HAD OVERWHELMING SUPPORT. YOU HAD US BOTH ON, STEVE, ON THE DIFFERENT THINGS WE'VE DONE WITHIN THE PC PARTY AND FEDERALLY WITHIN THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY. I CAN TELL YOU, WE'VE NEVER HAD SUCH OVERWHELMING SUPPORT TO GET 2500 SIGNATURES IN THREE WEEKS, AND THE CALLS AND THE EMAILS AND WE'VE FALLEN BEHIND AND OUR TEAM HAS FALLEN BEHIND AND WE WERE REALLY SHOCKED BECAUSE WE DIDN'T REALLY GET A LOT OF MEDIA COVERAGE. WE WEREN'T LOOKING FOR IT WITH THE FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT. SO IT'S BEEN OVERWHELMING SUPPORT ACROSS ONTARIO. PEOPLE WANT TO BE RIDING PRESIDENTS. PEOPLE WANT TO BE CANDIDATES. FORMER POLITICIANS HAVE REACHED OUT. SO THERE'S A LOT OF SUPPORT AND WE'RE DILIGENTLY TRYING TO GET BACK TO EVERYONE AND LOOP EVERYONE IN AND START PLANNING.

Steve says NOW, BELINDA, I'M NOT HERE TO BE A KILLJOY BUT YOU KNOW THE MOUNTAIN YOU'RE TRYING TO CLIMB HERE AND THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PEOPLE PUTTING THEIR SIGNATURE ON A PIECE OF PAPER SAYING, YEAH, YOU GO, AND ACTUALLY WANTING TO STAND FOR OFFICE, WANTING TO BE A RIDING ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT, WANTING TO CONTRIBUTE MONEY, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW SERIOUS THE SUPPORT IS BEHIND YOU RIGHT NOW?

The caption changes to "Belinda Karahalios. Independent MPP, Cambridge."

Belinda says I MEAN, THERE'S NEVER EVER A WAY TO FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW SERIOUS SOMEONE IS, RIGHT? BUT FROM THE PEOPLE I'VE SPOKEN TO DIRECTLY, I'VE COMMUNICATED WITH, I KNOW WITH JIM AS WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF PASSION BEHIND THIS. PEOPLE ARE JUST CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO GET THIS PARTY STARTED, TO START PUTTING RIDING ASSOCIATIONS TOGETHER. THERE IS DEFINITELY AN APPETITE FOR A REAL CONSERVATIVE PARTY IN THE PROVINCE.

Jim says YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK FAR, STEVE. BELINDA RAN IN A NOMINATION IN CAMBRIDGE. SHE HAD TWO WEEKS. SHE WON THAT NOMINATION THREE DAYS FOR MEMBERSHIPS AGAINST TWO CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR OVER A YEAR. I WAS A CANDIDATE. I WAS ON YOUR SHOW. THE ENTIRE CABINET WAS AGAINST ME. THE GUYS WERE IN THE BACK WERE AGAINST ME. I BEAT THEM. THEY HAD TO PHOTO COPY EXTRA BALLOTS TO BEAT ME. I RAISED MONEY IN A LITTLE UNDER TWO MONTHS. WE'VE PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN THE SUPPORT WE HAVE FOR OUR IDEAS AND OBVIOUSLY THE PC PARTY TEMPORARILY ADOPTED THOSE IDEAS WHEN THEY WANTED VOTES AND DONATIONS DURING A LEADERSHIP. NOW OUR GOAL IS TO GET AS MANY PEOPLE IN ONTARIO TO HEAR OUR IDEAS AND WE'RE CONFIDENT WE'LL GET THE VOTE IF WE CAN GET ACROSS AND GET OUR MESSAGE OUT TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE, BUT WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE DISADVANTAGES BECAUSE THE MEDIA IS NOT GOING TO WANT TO COVER US AS MUCH. WE'RE GRATEFUL YOU PUT US ON, OF COURSE.

Steve says YOU TALKED ABOUT NEW IDEAS. BELINDA, LET'S DO THAT. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE IDEAS OF THE PC PARTY AS IT'S CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED AND YOU THINK YOU HAVE BETTER IDEAS, GIVE US ONE OR TWO WHERE THE PC PARTY STANDS FOR THIS BUT YOU THINK A REAL CONSERVATIVE WOULD STAND FOR SOMETHING ELSE?

Belinda says THAT ONE IS QUITE EASY. THAT ONE IS RESPECT FOR DEMOCRACY. WHEN I CAME ON YOUR SHOW LAST YEAR, WE TALKED ABOUT MY BILL 150, WHICH IS BEING AGAINST VOTER FRAUD IN INTERNAL PARTY ELECTIONS. THAT BILL IS CURRENTLY SITTING AT COMMITTEE AFTER IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY IN THE HOUSE IN DECEMBER OF 2019. BUT THE GOVERNMENT HOUSE LEADER HAS SAID THAT THEY WOULD OUT AN OPT-OUT IN THE BILL. THE PC PARTY WOULD OPT OUT OF DEMOCRACY BY HAVING FRAUDULENT ACTIVITY WITHIN THEIR INTERNAL PARTY ELECTIONS. THAT'S THE FIRST THING, RESPECT FOR DEMOCRACY. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE OF ANY COLOUR, PARTY COLOUR, CAN AGREE WITH.

Steve says OKAY. LET'S TRY THIS ONE BECAUSE OF COURSE EVERYBODY IS GOING TO WANT TO KNOW THIS EVIDENTLY. SOME OF THE HOTTEST TOPICS ARE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND ABORTION. THE PC PARTY OF ONTARIO OFFICIALLY DOESN'T HAVE A POSITION ON EITHER. WILL YOUR PARTY?

Belinda says WE NEED TO BUILD THIS PARTY FROM GRASS ROOTS EFFORT. SO WE NEED TO FIRST GET APPROVAL FROM ELECTIONS ONTARIO, WE NEED TO BUILD UP THE RIDING ASSOCIATION, WE NEED TO GET MEMBERS AND CONSULT WITH OUR MEMBERS.

Jim says STEVE, WE'RE ON THE RECORD SAYING WE'RE BOTH PRO LIFE BUT WE'RE GOING TO CREATE A BLUE PARTY. CONSERVATISM IS NOT DEFINED NARROWLY BY SPECIFIC CATCH PHRASES. IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY TIME THIS QUESTION POPS UP AND THE MEDIA WANTS TO LABEL A CONSERVATIVE A SPECIFIC TYPE OF CONSERVATIVE, IT'S TO KIND OF MARGINALIZE THEM, YOU KNOW, MAKE THEM SOUND LIKE THEY'RE OUTSIDE OF THE STREAM. BUT ONE LABEL THEY NEVER USE IS CORRUPT. THE MEDIA WILL NEVER CALL A POLITICIAN CORRUPT. SO YOU CAN RIG A NOMINATION, RIG A CONVENTION, AND THAT GETS SWEPT UNDER THE RUG AND GOES AWAY. BUT WE'VE BEEN ON THE RECORD ON A LOT OF ISSUES OF WHAT WE'VE STOOD FOR IN THE PAST, STARTING WITH CARBON TAX AND MANY OTHERS, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE WHO WE ARE AND WE'RE GOING TO BRING A BIG BLUE PARTY, STEVE, WITH A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT CONSERVATIVE VOICES BECAUSE THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE PARTY RIGHT NOW.

Steve says OKAY. LET ME TRY THIS WITH YOU, BELINDA, ON THAT FRONT. YOU SAY THERE'S NO CONSERVATIVE... THERE'S NO REAL CONSERVATIVE PARTY RIGHT NOW. I WOULD POINT OUT THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY, WHICH IS A FORM OF CONSERVATISM, THEY RAN CANDIDATES IN 117 RIDINGS IN THE LAST ELECTION. THEY GOT 43,000 VOTES. THE TRILLIUM PARTY, WHICH ALSO THINKS OF ITSELF AS BEING ON THE RIGHT OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, THEY RAN CANDIDATES IN 26 RIDINGS. THEY GOT 8,000 VOTES. WHY DIDN'T YOU GUYS JUST DECIDE TO JOIN ONE OF THOSE TWO PARTIES AS OPPOSED TO CREATE YOUR OWN. BELINDA, GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Why not merge with other parties?"

Belinda says IT'S HARDER TO MERGE PARTIES OR JOIN PARTIES. WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT THE CONSTITUTION AND REALLY DO A DEEP DIVE INTO WHAT THESE PARTIES STAND FOR, THERE WAS ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT WAS MISSING, COMPONENTS THAT WERE MISSING FOR US AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE LOOKED AT TOGETHER AS WELL. IT WAS VERY CLEAR TO US THAT STARTING SOMETHING NEW WAS THE WAY TO GO, BUT THE DOOR IS OPEN [indiscernible] OF COURSE. WE PUT THAT ON THE RECORD.

Steve says JIM, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE A KILLJOY. I'M PUTTING FORWARD EMPIRICALLY PROVABLE FACTS. SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR II, WE HAVE HAD TORIES, LIBERALS, CCF-NEW DEMOCRATS, AND ONE GREEN. THIS IS NOT THE MOST DYNAMIC PROVINCE WHEN IT COMES TO EMBRACING NEW POLITICAL PARTIES. SO WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN DO IT?

Jim says WELL, STEVE, IT'S A LONG-TERM PROJECT. IT'S NOT AN 18-MONTH PROJECT WHERE WE GIVE IT A GO FOR THE NEXT ELECTION AND PACK IT IN. BUT JUST LOOK AT OUR RECORD, STEVE. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IN ONTARIO HAS EVER TRIED, A HUSBAND AND WIFE TEAM, WHO WERE ABLE TO GET AN ONTARIO PC PARTY TO CHANGE THEIR MIND OVER A CARBON TAX, GET AN ONTARIO PC PARTY TO CHANGE THEIR MIND ABOUT BALLOT BOX-STUFFING, TO PUSH FORWARD IDEAS THAT THE PC PARTY BEGRUDGINGLY AT CERTAIN TIMES WOULD ADOPT, WHO HAS RUN AS AN MPP IN TWO WEEKS AND WON A NOMINATION. I RAN FOR PRESIDENT AND I RAN FOR FEDERAL LEADER. SO THERE HAS BEEN NO OTHER TIME LIKE TODAY, STEVE, IN HISTORY THAT I CAN SEE, WHERE THE SUPPOSED BLUE PARTY AS MOVED SO FAR TO THE LEFT, IN SUCH AN AUTHORITARIAN FASHION, TO CLOSE DOWN BUSINESSES TO TOP-DOWN TELL PEOPLE HOW THEY SHOULD LIVE THEIR LIVES AND MICRO-MANAGE, AND THERE'S NO VOICE OUT THERE. SO IT'S TRUE, STEVE, YOU'RE A HISTORIAN, YOU KNOW THE HISTORY. BUT THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED TIMES AND WE'RE TRYING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

The caption changes to "Steve Paikin, @spaikin."

Steve says I HEAR YOU. AND WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR THE TWO OF YOU FOR COMING ONTO TVO TONIGHT AND EXPLAINING IT TO US. TAKE CARE.

Jim says THANK YOU.

Belinda says THANKS FOR HAVING US.

Watch: Does Ontario Need a New Blue Party?