Transcript: Fighting a Feral Cat Boom | Nov 27, 2020

Nam stands in the studio. She's in her early forties, with shoulder length curly brown hair. She's wearing glasses and a black blazer over a black shirt.

A wall screen behind her reads "The week in review."

Nam says THE AGENDA THIS WEEK LOOKED AT WHY CONSPIRACY THEORIES HURT REAL VICTIMS OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING, AND ASSESSED HOW TO MAKE CAPITALISM MORE EQUITABLE. THE AGENDA'S WEEK IN REVIEW BEGINS WITH A CRITICAL EYE ON HOW ONTARIO'S MANAGED THE COVID-19 CRISIS IN LONG-TERM CARE.

Music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

In a clip, a slate appears on screen as Steve Paikin speaks.

The slate title reads "Long-term care and COVID-19. Second wave stats."

Steve reads data from the slate and says
LONG-TERM CARE DEATHS ACCOUNT FOR TWO-THIRDS OF THE DEATHS FROM COVID-19 IN THIS PROVINCE. THERE ARE 626 LONG-TERM CARE HOMES IN ONTARIO, OF WHICH MORE THAN 400 HAVE HAD OUTBREAKS. NOW, A REMINDER: ONE CASE IS CONSIDERED AN OUTBREAK. AT THE START OF THIS WEEK, 101 HOMES HAD OUTBREAKS. THAT'S ABOUT 16 percent OF THE PROVINCE'S HOMES. AND AS OF MONDAY OF THIS WEEK, THERE WERE 528 RESIDENTS AND 467 STAFF MEMBERS WITH THE VIRUS. NOW, LET'S START WITH THIS. THE PROVINCE'S OFFICIAL LINE IS, YES, WE'RE INTO A SECOND WAVE OF COVID-19, BUT WE DID LEARN A LOT OF LESSONS THE FIRST TIME AROUND, AND THEREFORE WE'RE DOING MUCH BETTER THIS TIME ROUND. I WANT TO START WITH A BASIC QUESTION: TRUE OR FALSE? DR. SINHA, START US OFF.

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Long-term care's second wave of COVID-19. Lessons learned?"
Then, it changes to "Samir Sinha. Sinai Health."

Samir is in his forties, clean-shaven, with short black hair. He's wearing a blue shirt and a white lab coat.

He says WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE SECOND WAVE, WE'RE SEEING MORE DEATHS AGAIN, WE'RE SEEING MORE OUTBREAKS, AND SADLY WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT WEREN'T ADDRESSED IN THE FIRST WAVE THAT ARE CREEPING BACK TO HIT US AGAIN IN THE SECOND WAVE. AND I REALLY THINK IT'S JUST UNPARALLELED LEVELS OF COMMUNITY TRANSMISSION AND THE STAFFING ISSUES THAT REALLY HAVEN'T BEEN RESOLVED THAT I THINK ARE THE ACHILLES HEEL OF A GOOD PANDEMIC RESPONSE. THAT'S WHY I THINK WE'RE SEEING OUTBREAKS AGAIN AND PREVENTABLE DEATHS ONCE AGAIN.

Steve says SHARLEEN STEWART, WE'RE DOING BETTER THIS TIME, TRUE OR FALSE?

The caption changes to "Sharleen Stewart. SEIU Healthcare."

Sharleen is in her early sixties, with long wavy blond hair. She's wearing a black blazer and a thin necklace.

She says FALSE. THEY DIDN'T DO ENOUGH PREPAREDNESS OVER THE SUMMER. THE THINGS THAT THEY DID WERE VERBAL COMMITMENTS BUT WE'RE NOT SEEING THE ACTIONS IMPLEMENTED INSIDE THE HOMES. WE'RE SEEING MORE CRITICAL STAFF SHORTAGE. IT'S BEEN REPORTED THAT 30 percent OF THE STAFF THAT WERE THERE DURING THE FIRST WAVE ARE NOT RETURNING DURING THE SECOND WAVE. SO IT IS WORSE. I MEAN, SOME OF THE LESSONS LEARNED, LIKE THE LOW WAGES. THERE WAS A COMMITMENT TO ADDRESS THAT. BUT THE PIECEMEALING WAY THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS PANDEMIC IS NOT MAKING ANY IMPROVEMENTS. THINGS ARE ACTUALLY WORSE.

Steve says DR. AMIT, WHAT DO YOU SAY, TRUE OR FALSE?

The caption changes to "Amit Arya. McMaster University."

Amit is in his thirties, clean-shaven, with wavy brown hair. He's wearing glasses and a checkered shirt.

He says ABSOLUTELY I WOULD AGREE WITH THE OTHER PANELISTS, THAT OUR RESPONSE HAS BEEN PIECEMEAL, AD HOC, AND REALLY FAR TOO LATE IN MANY OF THE HOMES THAT HAVE LARGE-SCALE COVID-19 OUTBREAKS. SO REALLY IT'S FALSE. AND WE COULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER OVER THE SUMMER AND LEARNED EVEN FROM OTHER PROVINCES THAT HAD A MUCH BETTER RESPONSE.

Steve says WELL, DONNA DUNCAN, I'VE LEFT YOU FOR THE END FOR OBVIOUS REASONS. I WANTED YOU TO HEAR WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAD TO SAY FIRST. HOW DO YOU WEIGH IN ON THIS?

The caption changes to "Donna Duncan. Ontario Long Term Care Association."

Donna is in her fifties, with chin-length blond hair. She's wearing glasses and a printed black sweater.

She says CERTAINLY WE'RE BETTER OFF IN KNOWING ABOUT ASYMPTOMATIC SPREAD AND PPE AND TESTING, BUT WE HAVE A CRITICAL STAFFING SHORTAGE RIGHT NOW AND WE STILL HAVE OLD BUILDINGS AND WE KNOW THAT THE ROOT CAUSES IN WAVE ONE WERE WHERE WE HAD COMMUNITY SPREAD, OLD BUILDINGS AND STAFFING SHORTAGES. SO WE HAVE A LOT TO DO TO STILL STABILIZE THIS SECTOR.

Steve says TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK, DONNA, HAS CHANGED IN TERMS OF HOW LONG-TERM CARE HOMES ARE BETTER PREPARED THIS TIME AROUND THAN DURING THE FIRST WAVE? WHAT'S DIFFERENT NOW?

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Donna says CERTAINLY THE RESPONSE WITH HELP IS MUCH FASTER THIS TIME. IN THE FIRST WAVE, IT WASN'T UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF APRIL THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET REINFORCEMENTS IN. CERTAINLY WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE GOVERNMENT TO SAY, WE CAN'T WAIT DAYS, WE CAN'T WAIT WEEKS, WE CAN'T WAIT MONTHS WHEN WE KNOW WE HAVE AN OUTBREAK THAT MAY BE ESCALATING, WE NEED TO GET HELP AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, AND CERTAINLY WORKING WITH PUBLIC HEALTH AND WITH HOSPITALS AND LOCAL COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY WHERE WE HAVE LARGE OUTBREAKS, THAT HELPS GOING IN MORE QUICKLY AND WE NEED THAT.

Steve says SAMIR, WE KNOW THAT WHEN THE CANADIAN MILITARY WAS CALLED IN EARLIER THIS YEAR, THAT REPORT REALLY REVEALED SOME PRETTY HORRIFYING STUFF. IN FACT I THINK PREMIER FORD SAID AT THE TIME IT WAS THE SCARIEST REPORT HE HAD EVER SEEN, HEART-WRENCHING I THINK IS MORE ACCURATE OF WHAT HE SAID. IN YOUR VIEW, SINCE THEN, WHAT HAS CHANGED?

Samir says THERE'S BEEN A GREATER RECOGNITION ABOUT HOW VULNERABLE LONG-TERM CARE HOMES ARE. AS YOU'VE MENTIONED, WE'VE SEEN THE MAJORITY NOW HAVE EXPERIENCED AN OUTBREAK AND WE'VE SEEN OVER 2300 DEATHS NOW OCCURRING, YOU KNOW, IN THESE SETTINGS. SO THIS IS... THIS IS A REAL CHALLENGE THAT WE'VE REALLY HAD TO STRUGGLE WITH. BUT I THINK THE KEY IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS MAKING COMMITMENTS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SAYING WE RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE TO IMPROVE STAFFING, WE RECOGNIZE THAT WE NEED MORE SUPPORTS FOR THE SECTOR, THAT WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY INCREASE THE LEVELS OF CARE WE'RE PROVIDING. THE KEY IS THAT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE ACTUALLY MAKE THOSE STRUCTURAL COMMITMENTS HAPPEN QUICKLY AND IN A TIMELY WAY AND REALLY CHANGE THE OVERALL CULTURE OF LONG-TERM CARE WHERE WE SAW IN THAT MILITARY REPORT, STAFF TALKING ABOUT A CULTURE OF FEAR, STAFF BEING TOLD BY SOME OPERATORS, DON'T USE THE PPE, IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, FOR EXAMPLE, AND A CULTURE WHERE STAFF JUST FEEL THAT THEY'RE NOT BEING SUPPORTED, SO AS CHARLENE SAID, 30 percent, ONE IN THREE OF THE 100,000 STAFF MEMBERS THAT WERE WORKING PERHAPS IN OUR HOMES IN THE FIRST WAVE ARE NOT RETURNING. THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM AND THAT REALLY TELLS US THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE, STAFF INCLUDED, ARE LOSING CONFIDENCE IN THE SECTOR AND WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT QUICKLY.

Steve says Sharleen, HOW MUCH OF THAT HAPPENS? HOW MUCH OF STAFF BEING TOLD, DON'T USE PPE, IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, USE IT... YOU KNOW, USE IT SPARINGLY, HOW MUCH OF THAT DO WE REALLY HEAR?

The caption changes to "Sharleen Stewart, @SharleenStewart."

Sharleen says YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY, IT STILL DOES HAPPEN. AND, AGAIN, WITH THE OUTBREAKS, THE ABILITY TO GET A HOLD OF HIGHER GRADE, LIKE N-95, IS STILL A CHALLENGE. THE INFECTION PREVENTION CONTROL MEASURES IN THE HOMES, BECAUSE OF THE CRISIS IN THE STAFFING, IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. THEY'VE GOT STAFF WORKING ON MULTIPLE FLOORS, USING THE SAME MASKS THAT THEY'VE USED ON, SAY, AN INFECTED FLOOR. BECAUSE OF THE STAFFING SHORTAGES, THEY HAVE TO SPREAD THOSE STAFF AMONG MANY FLOORS AND THAT IS A BAD WAY TO CONTAIN A VIRUS OR A PRESUMED VIRUS.

Steve says YOU KNOW, HAVING SAID THAT, AMIT, I DO REMEMBER BRIAN MULRONEY ONCE SAYING, DON'T COMPARE ME TO THE ALL THE MIGHTY, COMPARE ME TO THE ALTERNATIVE. LET'S FIND OUT RELATIVELY SPEAKING HOW ONTARIO IS DOING VIS-A-VIS OTHER PROVINCES? ON THAT SCORE, WHAT DO YOU FIND?

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Amit says I THINK REALLY THE GOLD STANDARD THAT WE CAN COMPARE OURSELVES TO IS BRITISH COLUMBIA, WHICH ACTED VERY EARLY ON IN THE PANDEMIC, BACK IN MARCH, TO TAKE CRITICAL ACTIONS. THEY ACTED DECISIVELY WITH CLEAR COMMUNICATION FOR THE ENTIRE LONG-TERM CARE SECTOR. SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT CAME TO PUBLIC HEALTH SUPPORTS, INFECTION CONTROL AND PREVENTION, ALONG WITH STAFFING. WHAT THEY DID IS THEY NATIONALIZED THE LONG-TERM CARE SECTOR, WHICH MEANS THAT THE GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY HIRED ALL FRONT LINE LONG-TERM CARE WORKERS, MADE SURE THAT THEY WERE ONLY WORKING IN ONE HOME, BEING PAID A DECENT LIVING WAGE, BENEFITS, AND SICK LEAVE, AND CONSEQUENTLY THROUGH THE FIRST WAVE, WHAT HAPPENED IS THEY HAD HALF OF THE LONG-TERM CARE SECTOR BUT HAD ONE-TENTH OF THE DEATHS.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

A caption on screen reads "Fighting human trafficking and conspiracies."

Steve says I WANT TO READ PART OF AN OPEN LETTER WRITTEN BY FREEDOM NEEDS TRUTH. THIS IS A COALITION OF ORGANIZATIONS DEDICATED TO FIGHTING HUMAN TRAFFICKING, AND THIS IS ABOUT THE DANGERS OF QANON CONSPIRACY THEORIES BEFORE THE LAST ELECTION. I THINK MOST PEOPLE HAVE HEARD OF QANON NOW. HERE WE GO.

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Harming anti-trafficking efforts." The quote reads ".Anybody -political committee, public office holder, candidate, or media outlet- who lends any credibility to QAnon conspiracies related to human trafficking actively harms the fight against human trafficking."
Quoted from freedomneedstruth.medium.com. October 21, 2020.

Steve says LET'S GET INTO THAT. RON ELLE, HOW DO THE QANON TYPES HARM THE FIGHT AGAINST HUMAN TRAFFICKING?

The caption changes to "Overshadowing a real problem."
Then, it changes again to "Rhonelle Bruder. Project Irise."

Rhonelle is in her thirties, with long wavy highlighted brown hair. She's wearing a pink sweater.

She says WELL, WHAT QANON DOES AND ANY SORT OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING CONSPIRACY THEORIES IS REALLY PAINTS A PICTURE OF WHAT TRAFFICKING LOOKS LIKE. BUT THIS PICTURE IS NOT REFLECTIVE OF REALITY. AND SO STORIES OF INTERNATIONAL CHILD TRAFFICKING RINGS OR PEOPLE BEING KIDNAPPED OFF THE STREET, EVEN THOUGH THESE THINGS DO HAPPEN, THE WAY TRAFFICKING NORMALLY LOOKS LIKE, WHAT WE'RE SEEING, PARTICULARLY HERE IN CANADA, SO DOMESTIC SEX TRAFFICKING, IS THAT YOUNG PEOPLE ARE BEING TRAFFICKED BY SOMEONE THAT THEY KNOW. IT'S A FAMILY MEMBER. IT'S A BOYFRIEND. IT'S A GIRLFRIEND. IT'S NOT SOMEBODY BEING KIDNAPPED OFF THE STREET BY A STRANGER AND IT'S NOT LIKELY SOMEONE IS GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN AN INTERNATIONAL SEX TRAFFICKING RING.

Steve says DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY DO THIS?

Rhonelle says WHY THEY MAKE UP THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES?

Steve says YEAH.

The caption changes to "Rhonelle Bruder, @RealRhonelle."

Rhonelle says I THINK BECAUSE, PARTICULARLY WITH SEX TRAFFICKING, IT IS SUCH A COMPLEX CRIME. IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S VERY HARD FOR MOST PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND: HOW COULD SOMEONE BE VICTIMIZED IN THIS WAY? SO THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES, TO ME THEY'RE TRYING TO SIMPLIFY SOMETHING THAT IS OVERLY COMPLICATED IN A WAY THAT MOST PEOPLE WILL SAY THIS IS WHAT TRAFFICKING LOOKS LIKE. I CAN GET BEHIND THAT.

Steve says JULIA, WHAT IMPACT DO THESE CONSPIRACY ORGANIZATIONS HAVE ON YOUR ORGANIZATION?

The caption changes to "Julia Drydyk. The Canadian Centre to end Human Trafficking. @JuliaDrydyk."

Julia is in her thirties, with long wavy chestnut hair. She's wearing a beige plaid blazer.

She says SO AS WE MENTIONED, THE COMMON MYTHS THAT ALREADY EXIST AROUND HUMAN TRAFFICKING ARE NOT HELPFUL TO START OFF WITH. AGAIN, MANY CANADIANS BELIEVE THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE OF FOREIGN NATIONALS OR WOMEN BEING BROUGHT INTO THE COUNTRY AND BEING TRAFFICKED HERE. AS MENTIONED, THAT'S SIMPLY NOT THE CASE. THIS IS A DOMESTIC ISSUE, THIS IS A NATIONAL ISSUE. AND, AGAIN, LIKE RHONELLE SAID, THIS IS USUALLY HAPPENING BY AN INDIVIDUAL THAT PEOPLE KNOW AND TRUST. WHEN THESE GO OUT, IT FUELS THAT FIRE OF MYTHS AND IT REALLY DETRACTS FROM US BEING ABLE TO FOCUS ON THE ISSUE AT HAND IN FRONT OF US WHICH AGAIN IS INCREDIBLY FLEX.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says DO YOU KNOW, LORNE, WHY QANON TYPES SEEM TO FOCUS ON PEDOFILIA RINGS AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING? THIS SEEMS TO BE THEIR THING.

Lorne is in his fifties, with short white hair and a stubble. He's wearing glasses, a gray suit and a blue shirt.

He says I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS GOING ON. SO FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF Q AND THOSE WHO ARE POLITICALLY ALIGNED WITH THIS AND PROMOTING THE CONSPIRACY, THEY ARE JUST TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS TO PROMOTE THEIR POLITICAL AGENDA, TO GAIN SUPPORT. WHY IT WORKS IS BECAUSE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES IN GENERAL, PEOPLE ARE VERY INTERESTED IN GETTING INVOLVED IN A GROUP THAT THEY THINK IS INVOLVED IN SOME KIND OF SALVIFIC FUNCTION. THEY'RE GOING TO SAVE THE WORLD. THEY'RE A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE AND INSIGHT AND THEY'RE GOING TO OVERCOME GREAT IGNORANCE IN THE WORLD AND THEY'RE GOING TO RECOGNIZE PARTICULARLY, THE APPEAL IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO RESCUE THE INNOCENT. THEY ARE GOING TO RESCUE THOSE WHO ARE BEING ABUSED. SO A LARGE NUMBER OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES OR POLITICAL PROPAGANDA IN GENERAL USUALLY USES MOTIFS ABOUT WOMEN AND CHILDREN BEING RAPED, TORTURED, SEXUALLY MOLESTED, KILLED, ET CETERA, IN ORDER TO GALVANIZE THIS DESIRE TO RESCUE THE PEOPLE ON THE PART OF THE AUDIENCE.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says JULIA, SINCE THIS GROUP HAS GAINED ATTENTION, IN PART BECAUSE THEY ENDORSE TRUMP, IN PART BECAUSE HE RETWEETED SOME OF THEIR STUFF ON TWITTER, HAVE YOU BEEN GETTING AN INCREASE IN CALLS TO YOUR ORGANIZATION BECAUSE OF THAT?

Julia says SO USUALLY ABOUT 48 HOURS AFTER A NEW HASHTAG COMES OUT, LIKE SAVE THE CHILDREN OR SOME OF THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES AROUND WAYFAIR, WE WILL GET AN INFLUX OF CALLS INTO THE HOTLINE. LUCKILY NOT TO THE SAME DEGREE AS THE UNITED STATES WITH THEIR TRAFFICKING HOTLINE. IT'S NOT DISRUPTING OUR ABILITY TO SERVE OTHER FOLKS WHO MIGHT BE VICTIMS OR SURVIVORS ON THE GROUND. BUT WE DEFINITELY SEE IT. IN ALL HONEST, WE TAKE IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE EDUCATION AND AWARENESS ABOUT WHAT HUMAN TRAFFICKING REALLY IS. WE DEFINITELY GET PEOPLE FROM ACROSS CANADA, YOU KNOW, FAMILY MEMBERS AND JUST GENERAL FOLKS, YOU KNOW, ASKING IF THIS IS REAL.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

Steve appears on split screens with a guest.
A caption on screen reads "The problems with economic efficiency. Income and wealth distribution."

Steve says ONE OF THE POINTS YOUR BOOK MAKES IS THAT THIS IS OBVIOUSLY UNFAIR IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE. BUT IT'S ALSO, YOU SUGGEST, A PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRACY. HOW SO?

The caption changes to "Roger Martin. Author, 'When more is not better.' @RogerLMartin."

Roger is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short, receding gray hair. He's wearing glasses, a black suit, white shirt and gray sweater.

He says WELL, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THAT GREAT MIDDLE CLASS THAT'S SORT OF THE UNDERPINNING OF EVERY ADVANCED DEMOCRATIC CAPITALIST COUNTRY ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THE SWING VOTER, RIGHT? IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE MEDIAN FAMILY, THE 50TH PERCENTILE IN SOME SENSE, THE GOVERNMENT IN POWER NEEDS TO HAVE THAT VOTER ON ITS SIDE, OR AT LEAST THE VOTERS IN THAT NARROW BAND AROUND IT. AND IF SUDDENLY THAT NARROW BAND HAS STOPPED ADVANCING, THEY MAY FUNDAMENTALLY ASK: HEY, WHY AM I CONTINUING TO VOTE FOR THE CONTINUATION OF THIS THING THAT ISN'T WORKING FOR ME, ISN'T WORKING FOR MY FAMILY ANYMORE. AND IF THAT HAPPENS, YOU'LL HAVE AN ELECTORATE SAYING, WELL, MAYBE WE'LL TRY SOMETHING ELSE. IT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, IN THE GREAT DEPRESSION, RIGHT? IN THE GREAT DEPRESSION, WHICH WAS A WORLD-WIDE PHENOMENON IN ADVANCED COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, MUCH OF EUROPE, MUCH OF THE FAR EAST WENT EITHER FASCIST, SOCIALIST, OR COMMUNIST DURING THAT PERIOD. SO WHEN YOU HAVE A MIDDLE CLASS THAT SAYS, THIS ISN'T WORKING FOR US ANYMORE, THEY ARE PRONE TO TRY OTHER THINGS.

The caption changes to "The Week in Review. @theagenda. Tvo.org."

Steve says WELL, OKAY. BUT THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM HAS ALWAYS BEEN, YEAH, BUT THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN OVER HERE. THE TERRIBLE RECESSION OF THE 1980S DIDN'T RESULT IN A CHANGE OF STYLE OF GOVERNMENT, THE GREAT RECESSION OF 15 YEARS AGO DIDN'T RESULT IN A CHANGE OF STYLE OF GOVERNMENT. HERE WE ARE AGAIN WITH THE ECONOMIC DISLOCATION CAUSED BY COVID. WE DON'T SEE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, CLAMOURING IN THE STREETS FOR A CHANGE OF... I DON'T MEAN A CHANGE OF PARTY, I MEAN LITERALLY A CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM BY WHICH WE ARE GOVERNED. ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT COULD NO LONGER BE THE CASE?

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Roger says YEAH, AND I THINK, STEVE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS THAT QUESTION PEOPLE ABOUT HOW ABOUT SOCIALISM, THEY HAVE HIGHER FAVOURABILITY THAN EVER BEFORE IN AMERICA AND IT AIN'T EVEN CLOSE. I THINK IT'S UPON US, TO BE HONEST.

Now music plays as an animated slate reads "The week in review."

A caption on screen reads "Fixing a broken economic system. Disenchanted with democracy?"

Steve says THERE'S A LOT MORE FINANCIAL MOBILITY IN SCANDINAVIAN; IS THAT THE POINT?

The caption changes to "Brian Milner. Business Journalist."

Brian is in his sixties, clean-shaven, with short curly white hair. He's wearing glasses, a black suit and a checkered shirt.

He says A LOT MORE AND EVEN SOCIAL MOBILITY. IT BLOWS UP THAT MYTH THAT THE U.S. HAS ALWAYS LIVED ON, THAT THEY HAVE THE BEST MOBILITY AND THE EASIEST PATH FOR EVERY CITIZEN TO BECOME WEALTHY. THAT HASN'T BEEN TRUE FOR A LONG TIME.

Steve says MICHAEL, YOU WANTED TO FOLLOW UP?

The caption changes to "Michael Veall. McMaster University."

Michael is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short brown hair. He's wearing glasses, a white shirt and a striped black tie.

He says WELL, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT BRIAN MAKES ABOUT INTERGENERATIONAL MOBILITY. IN FACT IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER IN CANADA THAN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL.

Steve says MM-HMM. I'M GOING TO ASK OUR DIRECTOR HERE, SHELDON OSMOND, TO PUT UP A GRAPH. SHANNON, I'LL GET YOU TO SPEAK TO IT FIRST.

A slate appears on screen, with the title "Globally, younger generations have become increasingly dissatisfied with democracy, but not older ones."

A chart containing four lines of different colours shows that Millennials and Generation X have become more dissatisfied as they have aged, particularly Millennials, whereas Baby Boomers and Interwar generation have not.

Steve continues THIS IS ESSENTIALLY... IT WAS TWEETED OUT BY THE FINANCIAL TIMES BACK ON NOVEMBER 17TH. I'M GOING TO DESCRIBE THIS A BIT FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T SEE IT AND ARE LISTENING ON PODCAST. IT SEEMS THE OLDER YOU ARE, THE MORE YOU ARE SATISFIED WITH DEMOCRACY. SO IF WE GO TO THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF THIS GRAPH, YOU SEE A BLUE SQUIGGLY LINE THERE, THE INTERWAR GENERATION, 1918-1943, HIGH LEVELS OF SATISFACTION. BABY BOOMERS ARE THE NEXT ONES DOWN, 1944-64, AGAIN PRETTY DECENT LEVEL OF SATISFACTION WITH THE WAY DEMOCRACY WORKS. BUT THEN WE GET INTO YOUNGER GROUPS, GENERATION X, 1965 TO 1980, LESS AND LESS SATISFACTION. AND THE MILLENNIALS, BORN 1981 TO 1996, CONSIDERABLE DISSATISFACTION WITH THE WAY SOCIETY WORKS. SHANNON, I GUESS I WANT TO KNOW FROM YOU: DO YOU BELIEVE, BASED ON YOUR INTERACTIONS WITH THIS GENERATION, THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, IT'S LEGITIMATE FOR THEM TO FEEL THAT WAY?

The caption changes to "Shannon Lee Simmons. New School of Finance. @shanleesimmons."

Shannon is in her thirties, with shoulder-length wavy brown hair. She's wearing a black shirt.

She says A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK EVERYONE LOVES THE IDEA OF CRITICAL THOUGHT IN A DEMOCRACY, BUT I THINK SPECIFICALLY TO DEMOCRATIC CAPITALISM, THIS IS EVEN MENTIONED IN THE INTERVIEW, THAT SOMETHING IS NOT WORKING. SO PEOPLE ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND, AND THE YOUNGER GENERATION IS FEELING THAT POLARIZATION OF THE WEALTHY GETTING WEALTHIER AND THE MONOPOLIES THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED WITH BIG, HUGE, MASSIVE CORPORATIONS, AND THEY'RE FEELING LIKE THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME HOPE. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO BETTER THAN THEIR PARENTS' GENERATION, WHICH IS THIS MASSIVE SHIFT THAT'S HAPPENED. AND SO I DO AGREE THAT THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS AND EVEN INTO GEN-X AND THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I'M HAVING ON THE FRONT LINE OF FINANCIAL PLANNING, THERE IS DISILLUSIONMENT WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM. TO THE INTERVIEW'S POINT, WHEN PEOPLE ARE POLARIZED, THEY WANT TO TRY NEW THINGS. I HEAR THAT OFTEN ALL THE TIME. PEOPLE ARE NERVOUS ABOUT THE FUTURE.

Steve says BRIAN, CAN I GET YOU TO REACT TO THAT TWEET WE PUT UP A WHILE AGO, THAT THE OLDER YOU ARE, THE MORE SATISFIED YOU ARE WITH DEMOCRACY WORKS. HOW CONCERNED SHOULD WE ALL BE ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS?

The caption changes to "Brian Milner, @bmilnerglobe."

Brian says WELL, I THINK THAT THE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE. I THINK IF YOU TALK TO ANYBODY THESE DAYS IN THEIR 20S, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'VE JUST COME OUT OF, YOU KNOW, UNIVERSITY IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS PANDEMIC, THEY HAVE REAL CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO MANAGE, AND THEIR INCOMES ARE UNCERTAIN, THEIR JOB PROSPECTS ARE REALLY UNCERTAIN THESE DAYS, AND THEY ARE DISILLUSIONED BECAUSE THEY WERE PROMISED SOMETHING BETTER MANY YEARS AGO. BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT OLDER PEOPLE WHO ARE HAPPIER WITH DEMOCRATIC CAPITALISM ARE OLDER PEOPLE WHO ARE PRETTY WELL OFF.

The caption changes to "For more on this story visit: tvo.org/theagenda."

Brian continues IF YOU GO TO OLDER POOR PEOPLE, THEY'RE MUST AS MISERABLE AS ANYBODY IN THE YOUNGER SET. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S WIDELY TRUE.

The clips end and Nam stands in the studio alone.

She says THAT'S JUST SOME OF WHAT WE COVERED THIS WEEK ON THE AGENDA. FOR MORE, INCLUDING THE FULL CONVERSATIONS, YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE, TVO.ORG, OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AT YOUTUBE.COM/THEAGENDA OR OUR TWITTER FEED: TWITTER.COM/THEAGENDA.

Watch: Fighting a Feral Cat Boom